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"Tapping The Badge" ACN Pod 95
49 Plays2 years ago
Clare & Hannah join the resident nodgecasters Tom & Punt to chat Burnley wins, POTS outsiders and United predictions. We also reflect on the hostility that Michael (and mostly Delia) received on social media during the barren run before the last two unbeaten results.
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome to the Long Come Norwich podcast, a cantankerous candid conclusion carousel, including the correspondent who correctly called what the Clarence game confirmed Kenny is class.
Guest Introductions and Match Analysis
00:00:31
Speaker
We're joined today by Claire and Hannah, and as well as reflecting on that win, we'll be predicting the upcoming United trip. First up, star performers on Sunday. Who would you like to pick out, Claire?
00:00:47
Speaker
Well, rather wonderfully, it's quite hard to pick one person out from Sunday because they all did such an amazing job. But I'm going to go with Teemu because on the way to the game, I was talking to my sister saying, oh, I think, you know, his best days are past him. And would it be so awful if we let him go in the summer and he's getting on a little bit? And then he played like that and I was just like, OK, yeah, he's still. Sounds like it's thanks to you then.
00:01:16
Speaker
Well, maybe, yeah, I did send him a quick message just so you know, sort yourself out, mate. But he was absolutely brilliant, like his work rate, everything, his movement. I mean, the goal was just so teamy, wasn't it? And just amazing. And yeah, so my mind would definitely be teamy, but they were all fabulous. It's interesting, you said that goal was so teamy. And I described to my dad in effectively, if you looked up a encyclopedia entry for Team Mupuki's time at Norwich City, that goal would
00:01:46
Speaker
you know, would be up there in one of the ones you would select as. Absolutely.
Player Performances and Form Discussion
00:01:50
Speaker
On the last shoulder, one touch out of the feet, bang into the corner. What about you, Hannah? You watched at home, I understand. I did, yes. Well, I mean, Claire's taking the words right out of my mouth there, obviously. Sorry, I forgot you. You adored me through. No, it's quite OK. I need to run out. It's not all your TV. Well, I also, I thought Grant Nanley was great. I think he's been consistently great this season.
00:02:15
Speaker
I also, you know, got to have a bit of a soft spot for sent backs as a former defender myself. So I was like giving them a bit of praise when they deserve it. And I thought he definitely deserved it. I thought Gibson was great as well, but Hanley, I don't know, he's just, I don't know what's happened in this season, but he's, he's just been very consistent. It was great seeing him in the European team of the week as well. I thought that was hilarious alongside like Messi and Neymar. And that was,
00:02:45
Speaker
Great and he deserves to be there. So yeah, I'd pick one honey. Yeah, that's two weeks in a row He's made a few kind of teams of the week and I think he's very deserving and I was actually going to come on to and play of the season sort of Candidates and we'll come on to that in a second. So come on John. Tell me who you think was best on Sunday I think you know who I think was best Tom and I'm not I
00:03:10
Speaker
I'm not one to readily admit that I was wrong, and I'm not necessarily sure that I was wrong, but I think Kenny McLean was majestic on Saturday, like quite simply majestic. I would like my nine-year-old daughter, Sophia, to take a little bit of credit for that because she won his signed shirt at the Junior Canaries, whatever the Junior Canaries thing was before the game. And I was a little bit miffed that it was Kenny McLean's shirt that she'd won rather than a signed shirt of Teemu or, you know, Hanley or someone.
00:03:38
Speaker
would have thought would be better. But actually, Kenny was everywhere. I think it really helped him that we pivoted to a 4-2-3-1. And he wasn't actually then responsible for any kind of attacking output. He really was just there to screen, to be everywhere, to work hard, to intercept, to anticipate. And they're all things that he's actually all right at. You know, he's not too bad at any of those things. And he
00:04:04
Speaker
He put together what was, in my eyes, a relatively complete performance for Kenny McLean. It helped. And I think we said this on the last pod. He's a really good championship midfielder. He's not going to, I think, long term, he's not going to be up to Premier League level. It helped that essentially that was a championship game in waiting because both those teams, I think, will be relegated come the end of the season. But no, I mean, take nothing away from him. He was brilliant.
Defensive Stability and Player Impact
00:04:28
Speaker
I thought actually that, you know, this didn't get
00:04:31
Speaker
many plaudits after the game but actually given that he's just come back in the side he's probably not used to to doing 90 minutes and i know he came off for for williams at the end but i thought he looked as an attacking outlet really good as well so um yeah i'll go for kenny yeah i think dimmy's worth a shout and
00:04:49
Speaker
I like the fact that we seem to, whether or not it was because of a couple of injuries that were mentioned in the camp in the presser, sorry, illnesses, mystery illnesses, which some of the correspondents assumed might be COVID scares because the names weren't given.
00:05:04
Speaker
And there was a bit of a call for let's just have the players that are going to be here next season. And that back five that we had on Sunday, if that was our back five starting in August, there's not going to be many more complete experienced back fives that are going to be going into battle. And obviously we know Sam Byron, who I also think deserves a praise for another fantastic performance. I mean, he really does seem to be
00:05:30
Speaker
And I think if he could get a run in the game, a run in the team of three months, four months without an injury, I think he would be a fan's favorite because he competes so hard for everything. He seems like he's got such a good footballing brain. He's always in the right place and you just don't get with Sam Byram the same odd
00:05:51
Speaker
going wandering out opposition mistakes that you get with the younger full backs like your Williams is. And yeah, I mean, like I say, if he can stay fit, then he could be a fantastic asset to us next year. And Claire, the one difference was from that, you know, not being on loan, players that are ours in theory next year was Norman.
00:06:10
Speaker
And I thought he had a bit of a Jekyll and Hyde game. Do you agree or do you think he was all good all the way through? I thought he sort of came in and out of the game at times. I think he certainly got better towards the end. And perhaps, you know, the past that he did for the goal has maybe sort of skewed how we sort of look at his whole game because it was so magnificent. But yeah, I thought he definitely had a better game compared to what he has had since his comeback from injury. We hadn't really seen
00:06:36
Speaker
the form that he was at when when he got injured which was brilliant and that kind of reminded us that he is a really really good player and that pass was out of this world it's like it was amazing and definitely what team he needs that kind of ball but I mean I love Norman anyway I think men and women alike are in love with Matthias Norman but he was definitely better on Sunday compared to what he has been so yeah hopefully he'll just push on from there and he's got a bit more confidence now
00:07:05
Speaker
and he'll get back to what he was just before he got injured for the last few games. What are your thoughts on his, I saw a couple of clips and a couple of pictures of him tapping the Norwich City badge in a loving way in what, 10, 11 days removed from saying, I'll be off if we get renegaded. What are your thoughts on that?
00:07:29
Speaker
him saying that out loud rather than just doing what he could have done in that interview and just said, well, we'll see what happens. I don't know where I'm going to be yet. To me, I'm almost protecting myself from being too affectionate towards him because I almost think that relationship's definitely coming
Relegation Prospects and Team Morale
00:07:47
Speaker
to an end. So I'm always looking for reasons not to fall in love with him.
00:07:50
Speaker
I think in the championship he would be unreal. I think when he signed on loan, if we stay up then we can buy him. If we don't, we're highly unlikely to be able to afford him or he want to come to us because I'm sure he doesn't want to play in the championship and that's understandable. He didn't come to Norwich to play in the championship.
00:08:14
Speaker
But I think he really loves the club and I don't think he's faking that passion by tapping the badge. I genuinely think he just really, really wants us to win. Obviously then that would help his situation as well. But I love the fact that he gives gives his all and is so passionate as a lone player. That's all you can really ask.
00:08:32
Speaker
And yeah, I don't know. I think he's just, he's desperate for us to stay in the league. And although it's not likely, I think that's why he's sort of doing that really. Well, I wanted to pick up on that and how likely it is, you know, mathematically, it's perfectly possible. We do have some teams who are out of form coming up. And then we've got hopefully the last couple of games, people who have got nothing to play for necessarily. And you can kind of almost say that a new cast as well.
00:09:02
Speaker
So Hannah, make the case for there still being hope. Oh, yikes. I mean, there is. I'm usually, as you know, I'm usually pretty, pretty positive gal. I've slightly been drained of that this season. I'm going to do my absolute best.
00:09:28
Speaker
I mean, I guess the case is that there are some other really dreadful teams. That's the case for Hope and even Everton. I mean, I know they got a win last week, but before that, it was looking pretty dire for them. And I still think they have a really tough run in. I think they've got the hardest run in. And I think they could conceivably not win another game or maybe only win one more game, in which case they would still very much be in trouble. So I think
00:09:58
Speaker
We could overhaul them. I don't think it's beyond the world's possibility. I mean, we'd have to win what's definitely three games, probably four games. I think that is a tough ask. Three, maybe I could just about see. I think Newcastle, we could beat Villa, aren't great at the moment. Maybe one out of West Ham and Esther Wolves. I think definitely we could get three points out of at least one of those. So yeah, it's not impossible. It's not impossible.
00:10:27
Speaker
I am definitely struggling to think it will be doable, but, you know, where's the fun in just thinking it's all done and dusted now? I think you have to keep some hope alive for a little bit longer. And like I said, I think that's where the hope is, is that there's some really, really bad teams that we're competing with. So, yeah. The fact that that's why we're still in it in inverted commas. I mean, realistically,
00:10:57
Speaker
particular after we had that little kind of resurgence didn't mean January. And since then, that's kind of the Watford result. Since then, it has been just, you know, awful, just dreadful. But but, you know, teams like Everton, and up until, you know, a couple of games before us burning, etc, basically said, Oh, no, we can be awful as well. And that's,
00:11:20
Speaker
that maybe gives us a bit of hope. I think it's just so unlikely, again, it's similar to my Norman praise. I can't allow myself to believe, unless we go and get three points on Saturday, and then I think it would be very difficult not to let the optimism take over. John, what do you think about the players? Do you remember we had that interview with Ed, the goalkeeper coach, during Project Restart, and he was,
00:11:50
Speaker
I mean, almost, we were in a slightly worse position in terms of points behind then, but he was almost... No, we were only six points behind at that point. Was only six points behind. Yeah, yeah.
00:12:05
Speaker
I certainly think that I felt it was way more certain that time than I did this time, even if we were closer. That was what I was kind of getting at. But he seemed genuinely amazed that we didn't share his confidence that they'd get out of it. Do you get any sense from Colney that there is a similar level of genuine belief they could still do it?
00:12:23
Speaker
No, and sorry to be the fun sponge Hannah when you said that the fun is, you know, kind of retaining the hook. But I think even Dean Smith's comments in his press conference before the game, and I know obviously we've subsequently gone on to get three points, but there was no talk of like any kind of great resurgence short of maybe him saying, you know, kind of Craig Shakespeare had done something like that before with Lester and he'd never been relegated. But
00:12:48
Speaker
there wasn't like kind of almost a call to arms or a we can do this. And, you know, his quotes reeked to me of someone who, yeah, he can't outwardly say, look, we're we're down and we're relegated and but we'll fight till the end. But that's essentially I think where this football club is at. And look, you know, you and I talk to people at the football club, they're pretty accepting that the likely outcome here is that we're going to be relegated. I do agree with you, though. I think if if we could somehow
00:13:17
Speaker
manage your win at Old Trafford, then actually all things feel possible again on the proviso that Everton go and lose. But I started playing out these scenarios in my head the other day just because why don't you, you're a football fan. And I could, and I was talking to someone else about this, I think at best I could see us getting 11 points and that would be, you know, the really optimistic, you know, kind of games that I think we might draw just saying, oh, maybe we'll snatch that or maybe less to haven't got anything to play for. So, you know, maybe we'll beat them.
00:13:47
Speaker
And I could still really only see us getting kind of 11 points, which I think takes us to 32. I think even with goal difference of Everton win one game, that's it. We're done. And I can't see Everton.
00:14:00
Speaker
a football club of Everton stature, even though they're managed by a half-wit, I just still can't see them, you know, not winning a game, you know, because the football club is more than that, isn't it? And the fans at Everton will not accept it, you know, if they don't get over that fight. Yeah, but their running is terrible, isn't it? It's horrendous, but they've got Leicester to play twice, and I think that might be their salvation in so much as Leicester probably will be on the beach by then. But, you know, I would absolutely love it if we overhauled
00:14:29
Speaker
Frank Lampard's Everton because, you know, a manager that barely deserves these jobs keeps getting jobs, nearly got the nourished job if what we're led to believe is true. And, you know, based on what, based on absolutely nothing, you know, and it's a, it's a sad indictment of, of Everton Football Club that they employed someone like that. And, and it just demonstrates how poorly they've been run.
00:14:52
Speaker
over the last two seasons, or probably longer than two seasons. They've chucked half a billion quid at a squad that is absolutely shite this season. So yes, I would very much like it, but I can't see it happening. I can't make a case for it if we don't win on Saturday and Everton lose at the weekend. Yeah, I'm the same. I'm not a fun sponge, though. I think the fun should keep flowing. But whilst they've got some really tricky games,
00:15:20
Speaker
In terms of them staying up, they've got a really difficult run-in. In terms of them doing enough to stay ahead of Norwich, it's not hard enough. Watford and Brentford, they're not teams that you want to rely on to get wins for you. Brentford have got some results, but they play them third from last, by which point they're probably mathematically going to be safe, let alone even mentally foot off the
00:15:50
Speaker
the break all the way around. The point is, I just can't see it. I mean, hopefully James Madison helps us out.
00:15:58
Speaker
for Leicester and scores two hat-tricks in the April game and the May game but I just can't see them going on a barren enough run and therefore it means that I actually think with Everton's results we probably need closer to 16 points just simply because I can't see them not picking up at least a win in a couple of draws.
00:16:22
Speaker
And, and, you know, like, you know, that then puts us into five win, four wins in a few draws territory need to, you know, that's just insane. You're not going to, 21 now. So half points again in the last seven games is quite an ask for even the most optimistic kind of fan, but look, or what, what I want to.
00:16:42
Speaker
trying to stay positive, basking in Sunday. Yes, it'd been a very, very long time since we'd run a game and even longer since we'd run a game at home. I had such a fantastic time on Sunday. I really enjoyed being competitive. I really enjoyed the fact that we did, you know, it's not like we walked all over burning and obviously there was that then miss the back post.
00:17:08
Speaker
and Crawl made that fantastic save down to the bottom left hand corner. So it's not like it was a walk in the park, but even had we have drawn or lost that game, I would have still left just enjoying it so much more for the fact that we are competitive and that's what's making me hope that if we can have
Player Recognition and Season Highlights
00:17:30
Speaker
in the Wolves game, in the Leicester game, in the Newcastle game, if we can have another three or four games where either because they're on the beach or because they're not as good, we can actually have a genuine tussle head-to-head against the team that we can watch and enjoy, then maybe we can go down with a bit more pride and we end up getting relegated by, you know, four points as opposed to the kind of the 12 or 15 it looked like it might have been a couple of months ago.
00:17:53
Speaker
And that's what I'm kind of hoping. And so, yeah, speaking of cruel, Claire, I would like to hear your player of the season nominations outside. Sorry, Hannah, of Pookie, because Pookie will have to be in there because you don't want to score any goals. And I just don't think there's any merit really in debating that. So outside of Pookie.
00:18:17
Speaker
We've already given some praise to Hanley, so I'm gonna take him away from you as well. Outside of Pookie and Hanley. So let's say that they're one too, and cruel is maybe a candidate, because that's too obvious. Give me your fourth person who might be battling cruel and Hanley for second place behind Pookie. That's bloody hell. I'm glad you're first, Claire. Yeah, you're a pretty right child. That was really good.
00:18:46
Speaker
It's really kind of a punt. Your turn. Go on. Okay. I have gone on record on this podcast and said that I think this is his worst season at the football club, but if nothing else short of Mr. Consistent and often gets overlooked, I would probably like to put forward Max Aarons. I've seen
00:19:05
Speaker
loads of people on social media put forward Brandon Williams. And I think some of that is just because he tries hard and runs a lot. And, you know, that that's almost like the Kenny McLean award for pointing and trying. You know, I don't think that that we should be in the business of just giving out, you know, kind of give me strength. Give me strength. Things that boys done for this football club and you're combined into that little ITS. OK, so what?
00:19:29
Speaker
My point is that Brandon Williams pales in comparison to someone like Max Aarons, who has been a beacon of consistency, has still had an alright season for narrative football club, even though I still think it's his worst season that he's had for us. And he will leave in the summer and he will leave with our best wishes and is at what has been a fantastic servant and we should perhaps honor him.
00:19:50
Speaker
in some way because I think and again I've said this many times on the podcast technically I think he's the best full back that I've seen or the best right back actually that I've seen at this club and he doesn't get many plaudits purely on the basis that he's just really good really consistently he's better than market worthy
00:20:10
Speaker
It was criminally underrated. Who was the long-throat guy? Ian Culverhouse is the only one that I would say should be on the list of people in my supporting lifetime that might be up there with Max Ahrens. But Max Ahrens is a modern-day fallback and is just
00:20:27
Speaker
so much more dynamic than Ian Colthaus was. And Colthaus, actually, I would suggest was probably better in that sweeper role in the European campaign. And that's where he really kind of cemented his place in Canary folklore. So, no, I'm not having any other right back ahead of Max Ehrens. That's interesting because he has had, there's no doubt he's had a poorer season, but, you know, it comes down to a six out of 10 Ehrens is probably better than most of the rest of our squads, eight out of 10 days, if you see what I mean.
00:20:56
Speaker
So I think that's fair. Gollin-Claire, you've had time to think now. I'm going to throw in our other right back, who is actually making Max Ernst's absence very bearable, and say Sam Byron. I know he hasn't played the whole season, but since he's been back in, I think he's been absolutely outstanding given how much time he had out nearly two years, was it? Or just over two years?
00:21:25
Speaker
He hasn't put a foot wrong, really. And he's kind of keeping Max Aaron's out the team now. And yeah, I think he deserves to be the fourth best player of the season. Well, no, he's battling Hanley and Krule to come second. That was the point. Okay. Well, Hannah, who's going to finish second, third or fourth amongst those other players?
00:21:53
Speaker
Um, well, this isn't going to happen, but I'll give you my nominee, um, which is Josh Sargent, uh, for, for the Watford game, for the Watford game. No, I'm being incredibly serious. I think that is, that was what, I mean, it depends what happens in the last few games, but that generally was one of the highlights of the season. That goal was one of the highlights of the season. Um, I think we have missed him as well since he's been out. I mean,
00:22:17
Speaker
He hasn't exactly had a sort of starring role in the same way in other games that he had at Watford, but I think, I don't know, I just think he's given us that little bit of joy. And why not recognise him? Yeah, well, fair enough. I mean, I think if we're thinking of other forward players, Rashidz has done more over the season in terms of getting me off my seat and exciting me. I think he shows... Has he scored a scorpion kick, though?
00:22:47
Speaker
No, he hasn't. And, you know, I can't even... I rest my case. Yeah, OK. Very, very lucky. If you could have a moment of the season instead of player of the season. Yeah, all clear. Don't be harsh on Hannah. She's had a good go. No, I did think about saying that to be honest. No, she's shooting me. I appreciate it. No, no, I'm not. I honestly thought, should I say Josh Largent for that game? I did have that. Yeah, maybe we should just have a whole other award.
00:23:11
Speaker
Well okay, well I mean that is... He needs recognition of some kind. The performance of the season maybe. Well we always do do awards on our last part of the season so we'll have you back and we can maybe have that discussion.
Norwich vs. Manchester United Predictions
00:23:24
Speaker
The Watford game for me, I can't remember if I've mentioned on this podcast or not but I probably have because I witter on basically just empty what's in my head so I probably haven't mentioned it but I was in America for that game and I watched that game on a bus.
00:23:35
Speaker
And so it's one of the most memorable games ever, let alone this season, just because I haven't watched many Norwich 3-0 victories on a bus in America before. But it was a really bizarre experience.
00:23:47
Speaker
But yeah, okay, fair enough. I would say Rashid has got an outside bet for me for breaking the top three. I mean, I don't think he will, but I mean, for the nature of this conversation, just simply because he has played quite a lot of games. There's no point in me saying to Kenny, because you know I love him.
00:24:10
Speaker
But in terms of the people who have done 20 appearances plus, I think that whilst Gibson has been steady, I don't think he's given as much.
00:24:21
Speaker
And likewise, when you look at Rashid's 19 appearances around that kind of 20 mark, again, compared to Brandon Williams, he's only played 21 games. It feels to me like Brandon Williams has been there all the time. But I just feel that Rashid's has given me better return on investment for my season ticket and my faith in Norwich than Brandon Williams has this season.
00:24:44
Speaker
Okay. So looking ahead, then, um, John, we've got a game against a team in terrible form, uh, who may or may not appoint a, um, manager, it seems 10 hard as it, um, at the end of, uh, end of the weekend after I X win the cup final. Um, uh, they've got star players being told off for doing things they shouldn't do. Uh, and they, they, there seems to be dressing room splits and there's lots of players out of contract. Can't get a result for love nor money.
00:25:13
Speaker
They're playing us on Sunday, though. Really? Exactly, exactly. Look, I mean, Manchester United, out of any of the big boys, are traditionally the ones that we do the best against and we've probably had the historically the best results against. So all is not lost in terms of that hope. But I don't know if there's one club prior to the Burnley match, if there's one club you want to play to turn around any kind of
00:25:42
Speaker
issues with your form, then it's going to be nourishity. I think any time we've gone to Manchester United and we've had hope, perhaps, of creating any kind of result, we haven't. We always beat Manchester United when it's unexpected, and it almost feels like someone did say to me, like a non-nourish fan the other day, they're like, oh, United are in terrible form. I reckon you'll get three points.
00:26:04
Speaker
I can't see that. I genuinely can't see that. They've got some world-class players in their ranks and we've just beaten, as I said before, what is a championship team and I think most of the performances that we've put in this season have been against lesser opposition who we should have had a chance against and we've been able to compete with them and convert that into three points. I can't see it on Saturday.
00:26:28
Speaker
I really hope I'm wrong, because I think it does then put us back in the mix. But I don't know, even the most optimistic Norwich fan can't make a case for us winning on Saturday, can they?
00:26:38
Speaker
Yes. I was going to say. Football anything can happen. I mean, we're going to go there with full of confidence after Sunday. They are definitely not feeling confident. I do agree that they'll probably play absolutely terribly and win, but we could certainly pull one off, I think. Yeah.
00:27:00
Speaker
Maybe. I just wish, I mean, you're talking yourself out of it as you go along, Claire. Yeah, I mean, I'm not really bad. You don't want to get too carried away. I think, no, I was just going to say, I think in a weird way, them losing to Everton has made it harder for us. I think if they'd won that game, then I think they'd, you know, probably go into our game pretty complacent. But because they've just been embarrassed, essentially, I think they are going to be
00:27:29
Speaker
you know, they're going to be bang up for it. I know there are these protests that are going to be happening, so I don't know if that will have a bit of an effect as well. I'm not sure which way that will go. I suppose that can, again, it can sort of rile them up a bit and make them, you know, feel like they've really got to play for the crowd or it can sort of unsettle them. I don't know. I mean, I suppose, yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm going to go with Clay. Who knows? Who knows? We could totally, we could do them over.
00:27:56
Speaker
You know, in terms of the other fixtures, it would be it would be a good good kind of result to pick up. You know, because we've got we've got Burnley away at West Ham and Watford are home to Brentford in a kind of London Derby. And that's likely to be scrappy game. We know how much Brentford like to spoil any kind of occasion with their anti football. So
00:28:23
Speaker
And I feel like most that's going to be a draw for them. And, you know, West Ham's a very tricky place to go for Burnley. You've got to be really low on confidence. And just, I know we kind of moved on for it, but they really were awful when they Burnley. I mean, it's one thing being bad, but being bad when your philosophy is to also play awful football is, is quite the double whammy for them. Um, so I, I did, I, I felt for the fans, I mean, they were, they were amongst the most, I mean, I know we haven't beaten many away teams at
00:28:52
Speaker
but we have been either on top or scored at times at home this season. They were the quietest Premier League set of fans, for a set of fans who aren't actually relegated yet, that I can remember for a long time. I mean, they really seem to have lost quite a lot of, you know, what confidence they'd started to have from their little mini run, seemed to have gone out of them quite quickly. Probably shocked into silence. Oh yeah, I mean, they must have gone, this is the way, Dave, we've all been looking forward to it kind of thing. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so...
00:29:22
Speaker
Okay, so let's go with scores then. I want exact scores and at least one scorer. Let's start with Fun Sponge. Go on, Punt. 4-0, Manchester United. I think Marcus Rashford might score a few. If he's fit, I don't know if he's fit. I don't pay attention to Manchester United. Okay. Claire?
00:29:42
Speaker
I think we'll play really well, but they will win 1-0 and it'll be Ronaldo. Good, because he's been shit the entire game much like he was at Cara Roo. Yeah, he was terrific. I can't believe how bad his touch was. Yeah, he did that air kick, didn't he? Completely missed it all, all the headlines because he scored. Just misplacing passes. I mean, he literally looked like, not quite competition winner, but I mean, he literally just looked like a bloke.
00:30:10
Speaker
It did not look like a balloon door. Anyway, Hannah, go on. I think Claire's probably onto something there and I think, I think 4-0 is, I think that's, it's not going to be quite that bad. I'm going to go 2-0. But I do think Ronaldo is going to, is going to do something because it's just all set up for that, unfortunately.
Club Ownership and Ethical Considerations
00:30:37
Speaker
I think we're going to win 3-1, Pookie Brace.
00:30:42
Speaker
And we will actually be three in the lap at half time, backs against the wall job, concede the goal that they score on the 72nd minute, and then it's going to be really tense and nervy, and then Krull saves a penalty from Ronaldo, and that kills their kind of comeback momentum. So it's going to be worth it. That happens, make a DVD of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. I want to see that.
00:31:10
Speaker
So obviously we're not that far away from the end of the season and one thing that we didn't get an opportunity to pick up on on the last pod and we definitely wanted to address it with our long-term knowledge hats on.
00:31:23
Speaker
Um, is when we were having that awful run, which I'll know seems a long time ago now, cause we, you know, we're on this incredible unbeaten run of two games now. Um, and I saw a fantastic stat, um, from NCFC numbers that, um, this is the first calendar month we've gone without conceding a goal in the Premier League. Um, it helps not play for two of the weekends. Um, but anyway, um, uh, so obviously there's been, um,
00:31:47
Speaker
accusations of bad recruitment flying about. Frustration has to go somewhere. It's an unstoppable flood and it will find some crannies to run into. But one place where unfortunately some ignorant and misplaced accusations of your who's to blame has gone to Michael and Jones and Delia and much more, namely Delia, because
00:32:13
Speaker
If you are an idiot who is part of the daily route brigade, you seem to forget that Michael exists, which you could or could not argue is actually endemic of the problem. John, I wanted to bring you in and kind of just set you up in a tea with a nice wide fairway. Take a swing at those people who think in any way, it's not better the devil you know.
00:32:41
Speaker
Oof, that's a good one. I mean, I think, look, there's lots of people that have come round this season to the way of thinking to say that without investment, we're not going to move on as a football club. And I think you can make that argument. You can legitimately make that argument and still be relatively positive about this football club and what we've achieved over the last kind of four or five years under Stuart Weber's stewardship or under Daniel Farquhar or whatever it might be.
00:33:11
Speaker
I think for me the issue and the people you know if you say have a swing at you know kind of things the people are the those kind of ones who they kind of go oh look you're directing your you know your kind of anger at Stuart Weber or Neil Adams or Daniel Farker or Dean Smith whoever it is
00:33:27
Speaker
the problems further up, you know, you're not looking hard enough, almost like they're some kind of fucking out of the box thinkers that, you know, kind of are way more intelligent than the rest of humankind. But for me, this whole argument comes down to what you want your football club.
00:33:44
Speaker
to be and what you want football as a whole to be and where our club sits within that pyramid and that infrastructure. If football ate itself and the money drained out of it tomorrow, us as a football club, us as a model would be the model for anyone else up and down the country in terms of self-financing, in terms of trying to do things the right way, in terms of
00:34:09
Speaker
you know, we're supposed to be a community club that is kind of steeped in our roots and steeped in the community. So I think, you know, if it was, as I said before, if it was as simple as just chucking money at it, Everton would be in the Champions League by now. They've thrown half a million quid at this, you know, kind of. But so I think that's the thing for me is that I want our football club to be something different. I would say, though, that actually
00:34:36
Speaker
off the pitch this season. I'm not sure I've been as proud of my football club as perhaps I'd have liked to have been. We have made stupid deals with Asian gambling firms who've had girls deep throat in hot dogs or whatever it might be that it's just a really bad look for this football club. We haven't
00:34:56
Speaker
done things properly. There hasn't been proper engagement I think with supporters about key decisions that they've been making. I think there's been really daft things and there's been some real churn at the club which suggests that maybe there are
00:35:14
Speaker
deeper issues than than we see on the face of things and that worries me because actually part of this whole self-financing you know kind of shtick if you like and the the model and you know all of this being all right in my head is because i'm proud of the club that we aspire to be and that we are and i'm not sure we've been that this season and that's the thing that worries me so
00:35:37
Speaker
I can definitely make a case for us, you know, kind of us being a model football club and, you know, kind of a beacon of positivity and light in what is a really shitty, dark, footballing world at the moment. But I just still want us to be better. I still think that there's loads of things that we can do so much better that I've talked about in this podcast, probably for, you know, kind of many, many, many minutes this season and people don't want me to ball them again.
00:36:04
Speaker
But I just exactly but we just I don't know if we're gonna do it this way. I just want us to be better I think that's that's where I'm at with things but that there's nothing wrong with that and we wouldn't criticize anyone who says doing what you're doing, but do it better and That's not the problem that where I have a real what really irks me and is and what makes me just want to throw social media in the bin is
00:36:30
Speaker
The fact that it seems to be almost an accepted argument that, you know, there's only one place to look at who's to blame, you know, sell the club, you know, it's just people have got such, people are so selective or not even selective, people just don't seem to do any of the research into
00:36:50
Speaker
how often the approach of getting in nameless investment companies results in success. I mean, you've only got to look at what's happened at Burnley, who we've just played on Sunday. It looked like they're hotfooting it out of the Premier League, which I know we're in glass houses on that front. But the ALK capital takeover, and then the following year, looking for investors, all the players could be up for sale. And the uncertainty, you can very easily
00:37:20
Speaker
you know, bounce from owner to owner, or rather investment group to investment group, nameless, faceless, American or otherwise corporations with no link to the community and not in you don't even blame them for it. How can they possibly they live around here, they're not from this place that you know, they, how can they possibly ever really truly get into it? I know, of course, there is the Lester's and a couple of other very, very, very
00:37:46
Speaker
few examples where they genuinely have managed to build a bridge with the community and invest in it but they are so few and far between and realistically our knowledge, where we are and as are standing but in both football and geographically, the catchment area, are we realistically high enough up the list for those people who are inverted commas the best kind of owners
00:38:13
Speaker
would we be that high up on their shopping list? I'd also throw in the point with that, mate, is that when have Norwich ever done well when we spent money?
Recruitment and Long-term Strategy
00:38:23
Speaker
I can't genuinely think of an example where, and this season is case in point, isn't it? You know, we can say, oh, we were, whatever it is, 15th highest spenders in Europe, or, you know, we've, you know. Not really, though. I mean, not really.
00:38:36
Speaker
But we've broken our transfer record like what, two or three times his transfer window. We've dropped $9 million on Jeff Sargent, $9.5 million on Mila Rashidza. Similar fee for Christoph Scholiss. None of those have really worked out really well. If we stay up in the Premier League, I think it's something like 11, 12 million quid for Mateus Norman.
00:38:56
Speaker
You know, they're not signings that you'll look back on in, in, you know, 20 years and go, Oh God, you remember him? He was fantastic. Or, you know, I hope they are, but I don't think they are, you know, Grant Holt costs 400 grand or whatever it was, you know, Timmy Pookie was free. Tim Cruell was free.
00:39:16
Speaker
Norwich tend to kind of identify uncut diamonds and they really make them shine. And I think that's the bit for me, is we've never done well and we've spent money. Let's just throw in Ricky van Walswinkle. Well, Dean Ashton, but it was too late.
00:39:34
Speaker
And that was two and a half million quid, so it wasn't like it was mega money. We'd taken a gamble on a championship striker, but it was a championship striker, wasn't it? It wasn't like, you know, it was someone wasn't someone who was proven at the level. And I think that's that's the thing is whenever we've kind of done that, I don't think we bought anyone proven at the level this year. We haven't bought anyone proven at the level this year.
00:39:54
Speaker
but we were supposed to have bought players that were going to instantly going to be able to compete. But this is the thing, we started the conversation about one thing and we've already gone back to recruitment and this is what people don't, this is the kind of inconvenient truth that is just really frustrating to accept if going to football is about winning rather than going to football because you love the overall dynamic of being there and being with people that are singing and cheering as one. Atmosphere was good towards the end of Sunday as well.
00:40:26
Speaker
The simple fact of the matter is, Norwich have to get 85-90% of their recruitment right in every single Premier League window they have to stay in a Premier League. So whether that's for the first year, second year, third year or fourth year,
00:40:43
Speaker
unless maybe after three years we are then that attractive enough an asset that a buyer is available that's relevant and can be stomached by the current ownership to pass the club over to. Effectively, if we buy seven players, six of them have to be almost starting 11-25 games. Any less than that, it won't be a big enough upgrade on what we will have made do within the championship.
00:41:10
Speaker
And those odds are really, really long, not just for Stuart Webber, who has had a bit of a met. And we both know Stuart Webber. We see him at functions and media stuff. And we know from speaking and spending a bit of time with a man, he is a passionate, dedicated, incredibly hardworking, the whole sabbatical mountain climbing thing aside, which has all been agreed with the club as part of him staying on.
00:41:38
Speaker
He really will be hurting from a professional pride point of view that the people that his name are attached to are effectively being described as flops by everyone. That will be a point of professional humiliation for him because he prides himself on being able to find those, not necessarily uncut diamonds or what have you, but diamonds that are maybe
00:42:02
Speaker
scuffed a bit and down the back of the sofa with the crumbs like Pookie and like you know managing to buff them up and get them shining bright than they've ever shined before to use your analogy and go somewhere with it. I think that that's what's gone wrong. What's gone wrong is our percentage of swings for the fences you know we weren't conservative we went for it and not enough of them worked out and the problem is the reason that not a lot of them worked out is because
00:42:28
Speaker
we are playing higher percentage. Our percentages for chances of them being successful are lower because we can't afford to buy a proven top flight goalscorer or a proven top flight sentiment fielder or a proven, and when I say top flight, I mean top flight,
00:42:47
Speaker
England, Spain, Germany. We can't afford that. What we have to do is get someone from Norway, get someone from the second flight in Spain, get someone from Sweden or what have you. They might have played top flight football, they might have played Europa League or what have you.
00:42:59
Speaker
Are there many other Premier League clubs genuinely lining up to get them? And we can't afford to shop in that window. And if that means that people go, I'm fed up with this, I'm going to stop going, I'm going to start following another team, fine. Because I fundamentally believe there are enough people
00:43:18
Speaker
And it's not like I'm happy about that. I wanted Gilmore to be an incredible loan. I thought it was a brilliant signing. And I wanted him to have a fantastic season. I'm really sad for him and for what I wasn't right now. And likewise, I hoped that Rashida would have loads of goals and Sargent would have loads of goals.
00:43:35
Speaker
but it hasn't happened. And I'm just disappointed and upset about it and the football effects might move more than I'd like it to. But I also would much rather that disappointment than being in league two in administration or the club going out of business or having faceless investment fund after faceless investment fund make decisions that we're really uncomfortable about. And because they're so distant, we can't put pressure on them as a fan group or as a group of community
00:44:02
Speaker
putting together and making a noise together because we they will say well we don't care because you we own you so what do we care you know we don't live around there we've got no heritage with you why should we take have any interest in your um your your decisions on what we should do as a board or what have you so i i would
Season Reflection and Broader Football Issues
00:44:21
Speaker
It's not a lack of ambition. It's just, this is the club that you fell in love with. This is the club that you supported. We're still the same club. We haven't had that big injection of huge cash ethics or otherwise aside. So when it's available, it will be taken. If it's not available on terms that are palatable, it won't. So I get over it and accept that you just support us. And yeah, when they get decisions wrong, have a go at them and swear at them and shout at them and be cross with them.
00:44:49
Speaker
But when they get it right, it just feels that much better. It feels that much better. Like the win on Sunday was really, really sweet because of the crap that went before it. And that's the kind of football that I grew up. That's my understanding of football. You're rubbish quite a lot, but when you're good, God, I feel good.
00:45:06
Speaker
Yeah, I think I'm quite at ease and at peace with the fact that the club I support is in that 20 to 23rd best team in the country kind of bracket. And that's just what we are. And also, I mean, yes, to get some investment might help, but it doesn't always help. The fact is that the teams that get relegated from the Premier League
00:45:29
Speaker
at least two of them are usually the ones that have been promoted the season before. So they might have had a cash injection, you know, Fulham are very similar to us in terms of going up and down all the time. They spent 100 million when they got promoted and they still got relegated. It doesn't mean you're going to stay up.
00:45:48
Speaker
I firmly believe, and when you talk about our recruitment this season, it hasn't actually been that awful because look at the team on Sunday, a lot of the ones we bought this season played and played well on Sunday. I fully believe that the start we had to the season just gave us such a wrong footing for the rest of the season. We need to have a fixture list at the start of the season that gives us a little bit of
00:46:13
Speaker
hope and possibly win rather than what we got this season and also obviously the Covid thing at the beginning of the season. We just had no chance at the start of the season and I think they said in commentary that Brighton had a good start to the season and that's basically what saved them because since then they've been terrible, they've been really bad
00:46:35
Speaker
But because they had a relatively good start to the season, they're not really in the relegation fight. And we just haven't had that, certainly not this season. And so we've just not had a chance really. So investment or not, you need a certain huge chunk of luck as well. Brentford were heading down and down and down and then
00:46:54
Speaker
They took a chance on Ericsson and he's completely transformed them. But they got that little bit of luck by getting him. And other than that, I think they would be getting relegated. And could afford his wages as well. Well, yeah, I mean, they have got some money. I'm not saying they've not got money, but, you know, they weren't doing so well prior to his arrival. Oh, 100%. Even though they have got money. And that's kind of my point. It could easily have been Brentford, Watford and Norwich going straight back down again.
00:47:24
Speaker
And that's just the bracket that we're in. So I'm comfortable with that. I'm not happy with it, but I'm comfortable with it. And it certainly isn't boring, is it? Well, 100% no. And that's the, that has always been my, I mean, look how unhappy we were under Hughton, where we went when, you know, we were finishing the bottom table. And that squad was a really good squad. When you look at that squad on paper, Premier League squad, and we still got relegated. Yeah. So.
00:47:53
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I agree with everything you've all said. The only things I suppose I would add is that I think there's sort of an equivalence that if you are, if you support this current, you know, our current ownership, and if you aren't a member of the Delia Out Brigade, that sort of means you then implicitly agree with all the decisions that have been made, and that you are happy with how everything is going. And that isn't necessarily the case. No, I've
00:48:23
Speaker
firmly, I'm a big Delia fan and Michael. And I like our ownership model. I like how we function as a club. I like what we're trying to do. That doesn't mean I think we've necessarily always been successful at it. You can still criticise those decisions that are made and certain moves that the club make whilst also broadly agreeing with its approach.
00:48:52
Speaker
And I would just say, I mean, obviously the plays that we brought in over the summer, we brought in ones we could afford. Yeah. But we also had to think about value. You know, we had to bring in players who potentially we could improve and make some money on because that is one of our big income streams. So it's not just that we couldn't necessarily afford to bring in.
00:49:15
Speaker
you know, ready-made Premier League level players, it's just that that wouldn't have been a sensible use of the money that we do have and the resources that we do have. And obviously that hasn't been entirely successful yet. I mean, give it another season, a really good season in the championship, if that's where we end up, for some of these younger players, could massively increase their value. So again, I don't know if that, I think maybe it's too early to judge on some of those as to whether it's been a success from sort of non-football standpoint.
00:49:46
Speaker
And I suppose I sort of said earlier in this podcast that the enjoyment of this season has kind of been draining away a bit for me. And I think that isn't really just because of what's been happening on the pitch. It's definitely a broader disillusionment with football. I mean, I work on a sports desk I have done for the last two years and some of the stories that
00:50:13
Speaker
that we've covered have been pretty miserable from a sort of football fans perspective. And I just really firmly believe that the broken system is footballs, it's not ours. Just because we're not functioning well within it at the moment, the fault isn't on on us and the way we're trying to operate, it's on the broader system that we are trying to function and succeed in. And that only seems to be going one way, which is
00:50:42
Speaker
even more broken.
Closing and Guest Acknowledgments
00:50:46
Speaker
And it's really tricky to see how that is going to change and improve. And so that I suppose would be my perspective. I think our current approach is fundamentally a good one, a right one, and it's one that I support.
00:51:05
Speaker
Whether that necessarily always leads to footballing success, I don't know. And I'm not, like Claire says, I'm comfortable if that isn't always the case, because I, you know, it's something I believe in outside of results. Well, I think we're all, we're all broadly in agreement from various different viewpoints in terms of the type of club we want to support and being patient for that to change.
00:51:32
Speaker
I just so strongly echo what you just said, Hannah. Make football a sport again. Make the top level of football a sport again. I was with once of this Pariflawney earlier this week, and he was talking about how, through his coaching badges and through the under-18s management stuff he's been doing recently, he spent a bit of time in that non-league level and seeing football. He talked about the purity of it and how refreshing it was where
00:52:01
Speaker
then everyone's got a budget of nothing.
00:52:05
Speaker
and actually they've got this great lad on that they've managed to get hold of and therefore they might win this week and then next week he can't play because it's so-and-so is christening so all of a sudden they might not get a win and how if anyone can beat anyone at that level if enough of them are on their game and can get the right kind of drills and get the setup right and you know this interim talk about it you just think yes
00:52:31
Speaker
Premier League doesn't feel like that on a lot of weekends and of course you get the odd shock but it almost feels like the Premier League's got almost like FA Cup third round day now. They'll be the one shock, they'll be the one kind of surprise that everything else will pretty much go the way you expect it. But our football club can continue to buck the trend from how we go about it and we just hope that with enough ups and downs
00:52:55
Speaker
We maybe managed to stay up because we get enough luck with some of those things that worked out. Another really good point made, it's sometimes very difficult to judge a transfer window until two, three years down the line because maybe they kick on in their second year in English football. Maybe actually we're looking at 20 million windfall from one of them who kicks on and then gets sold in a couple of years.
00:53:18
Speaker
So yeah, it's maybe too early to tell. Look forward to United on Saturday, three o'clock. I hope you enjoy it. Thank you for listening to us and prattle on. Claire Hannah, your input was fantastic. And John, I acknowledge you exist. Cheers, mate. Everyone else, mind how you go.