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Young Justice Season 4: Episode 11
738 Plays4 years ago
Zuhair & J. Scoots explore the latest episode of Young Justice Phantoms with a listener feedback-heavy episode!
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Transcript
Introduction & Episode Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
On another exciting edition of Animation Deliberation, we are continuing our coverage of Young Justice Season 4, Young Justice Phantoms, with Episode 11, Teg Yader, or Get Ready. So stay tuned for that right after some ads, we have no say over whatsoever. I'm ready. All right, SpongeBob.
00:00:22
Speaker
When you're at Walt Disney World Resort for the world's most magical celebration, every moment is amazing and the memories last a lifetime. Because when you celebrate with us, nothing could be more magical. Stay near the magic. Book your theme park tickets and get hotel rates from $94 per night plus tax at Disney Springs hotels dot com slash 50. Rates based on availability. Blockout dates may apply. See website for details.
00:00:52
Speaker
Sing along if you know the words. One, two, three, it's time for animation, deliberation, a conversation and celebration.
00:01:01
Speaker
of our favorite action animated series. Yeah.
Meet the Hosts
00:01:05
Speaker
All right, folks, welcome back to Animation Deliberation, the podcast that takes action animation and cartoons seriously, but not too seriously. I am your host, Jay Scottie St. Clair. And once again, we have the Animation Deliberation Dream Team here to talk our bread and butter young justice, my co-host, Suher Ali. What is happening? How are you, my friend?
00:01:29
Speaker
Taking a trying to dial my brain down from spider-man to come back to the black spider content Trying to keep all my multiverses in check Did I'm just on a media high like between that movie in this episode I'm just I'm gleaming with wonderful content and I'm feeling good and ready to talk about this one.
00:01:52
Speaker
rightly so
Engagement & Social Media
00:01:53
Speaker
rightly. So it's tough not to get distracted by that big theatrical release there. But I do have to give a shout out to Andrew Rogers for that wonderful Instagram post he did with with Black Spider there. I love that so much. That was great. Yeah, we are trying to amp up our social media. So if you guys could be so kind as to follow us on animation deliberation on Instagram, just kind of react with our posts and stuff that we greatly appreciate so that we can reach out to some more listeners
00:01:54
Speaker
I
00:02:18
Speaker
Indeed, indeed. And then I guess on the other side of things that I need to address there, if you're ready and you're SpongeBob, I don't know if that means I should channel Patrick Star or Squidward. I'm not sure which is better in this instance. Should I be dumb and enthusiastic or curmudgeonly? Nah, nah, it's young justice, so of course I'm going to be enthusiastic, but I'll try not to be dumb.
00:02:44
Speaker
There we go. I could be a good old Sandy. Yeah. All right. Well, I guess before we get into the wealth of feedback that we got, which I'm really excited to get into.
Character Development & Shifts
00:02:55
Speaker
That's great to see. I did want to pose a question to you. You weren't present when we did hit monkey, but Blake and I introduced a little bit of a new segment. So before we get spoilery and whatnot, I will ask you your impressions of this latest episode on a scale from
00:03:10
Speaker
yeah or just yeah to yeah where do you where do you land on this this latest episode I think oh yeah cuz
00:03:22
Speaker
We have a lot of character development which we were confused about how, not confused, we were uncertain of how much character development these people would be experiencing in this season because the last two seasons were so much about new character, new character, new character, new character. And then it seemed like this season was going to be diving into our original gang a little further.
00:03:44
Speaker
Right. So it was interesting that we actually got a spotlight on three new people emphasizing their story a little bit more, but still keeping it well balanced to the progression of the story. Right. So it was it was a lot of intrigue. It still is very much of a set up, which were three episodes into this arc. So it's like, what more are you setting up for? Like, when's the huge shebang going to come up? So my my year is still like whelmed.
00:04:14
Speaker
Little tempered, little tempered on the
Mid-Season Finale Speculation
00:04:16
Speaker
air there. Okay, okay, I like it. See where we're going.
00:04:19
Speaker
For sure, for sure. And I think that's fitting at where we're at with the season. I mean, we are getting close to the mid-season finale here. And we're starting to get a few answers, but there are still a lot of questions out there. So I think I'm on the same page as you there. But that being said, before we do get into the nitty gritty, let's hit some of this wonderful feedback that we've got. Do you want to start with the audio feedback that we got from TJ Stafford or the written-in feedback? Where do you want to start? Just let TJ do some talking for us. Cool, cool.
00:04:50
Speaker
Hey guys, I thought I'd give my thoughts on the latest episode. First of all, I'm really enjoying how we're having different narrators talking about the stories from the past. In the first episode of this arc we had the Phantom Stranger dictating the story, and then in the last episode it was Vandal Savage that was narrating, and in this episode it was Naboo telling the story. So I'm curious to see in the next episode, which is presumably the last one of this arc,
00:05:19
Speaker
who is going to be narrating and what the story they're going to be telling is. I also mentioned in my last message that I have a feeling that Khalid is going to end up being the new Dr. Fay at the end of this arc and nothing that I've seen is dissuading me from that conclusion.
00:05:36
Speaker
just ignoring the fact that in the comics he wore the helmet of fate for a while and just basing it off what we've seen here. It seems fairly conclusive after this episode, making such a big deal about him being a doctor and also having mystic powers. And just the way Zatanna said, you're not a doctor yet, just really seemed to hammer that home for me. Plus, in the last episode, Vandal Savage made a comment to Naboo about having an aging host body.
00:06:04
Speaker
And then we also got to see how Starro ended up on Earth. I know back in season one, he is being studied by Atlantis, but we were never really told how he got to Earth in the first place. And it would seem that that was thanks to Clarion, just like everything else that we've learned about in this arc. And finally, I am very, very nervous for Beast Boy at this point, the way they showed all the pills on his nightstand as he was sleeping right there.
00:06:34
Speaker
It makes me think they're going into a very dark place with him and I'm almost concerned about how dark it's going to get. We've seen this show get dark before. But something about that image sends a real chill up my spine. But anyway, I'm looking forward to hear what you guys have to say. And I appreciate you guys giving me the opportunity to get my thoughts out. Thanks again. Okay.
00:07:02
Speaker
Thank you, TJ. Definitely some good points there. I guess we should kind of start from the top. He brought up the mention of kind of the rotating chair of narrators we had, which is a great call out. I think I hadn't really picked up on it until this episode with Nobu being the one to narrate the proceedings. What do you think about that? And do you have any strong predictions as far as who will close out the chapters as he asked?
00:07:30
Speaker
Yeah, I can't say that I noticed until today either because I think there's a huge distinction on the way that Nobu and Vandal Savage just kind of dictate their voice. There's more like commanding presence and more of an assertion in one than there is in Vandal Savage's. So I'm not sure it really clicked to me until today either. But it is interesting because each of the stories that were narrated was from the perspective of
00:07:53
Speaker
the narrator. So with Phantom Strange doing the first one, we didn't even know who he was at this point. Right. So he's just kind of like setting a foundation for us and something to go off of because we don't know what Vandal Savage inclusion in this is. And he is talking more about Clarion and how he met Vandal. So for the sake of storytelling, it wouldn't make sense for Clarion to have that because he doesn't have that charisma for like narration.
00:08:18
Speaker
Sure. So it was nice that it was an outside perspective and then that gave us the idea of comparing him to the watcher and questioning what his purpose here is. So it did set a good standard of who he was and how he's going to be contributing to the story.
00:08:34
Speaker
in regards to Vandal Savage. It was more of his perspective on how he worked with Claire and why he made the decisions that he did, the perspective of his son, telling the story of Atlantis, because that was a crucial part of his life. And
00:08:49
Speaker
You know, obviously like his interactions with the sun and how those tables were turned were a big part of his perspective You saw a lot in his facial reaction. So I have his voice go with it was really powerful as well And then finishing it off with Nobu. We saw his life and death his great his position in Babylon How he confronted his father how he died how he how he lived his life basically like his his moral grounding and how why that
00:09:19
Speaker
caught the attention of
00:09:37
Speaker
really mad at Nobu as a person. We'll go into that a little bit later. But I feel like each one of these narrators have been very perfect to this, even though it has been one story, the perspective of the story and these narrations. Yeah, yeah, that's those are all very, very solid points. And it makes me kind of question in terms of like, the question he poses, who's going to round out the narration, it's almost like I really don't
00:10:03
Speaker
No, do they have much more of a backstory to tell? At this point in time, it doesn't really feel like there is. We've kind of seen the full partnership between Clarion and Vandal Savage, or I can't remember the middle, was it Varjot something? But then Marduk, his various aliases there, we've seen that kind of full partnership come to fruition. And we've actually now seen
00:10:30
Speaker
Clarion be taken out. So I'm not sure how much more of the past there is to explore but if we do continue to get a narrator narrating the present stuff I actually kind of think it would be cool if it was Zatara as much as like Nobu is one half of dr. Fate and Zatara is the other and even brought it up in the episode like you think you are the sole champion, but every dr. Fate requires a
00:10:53
Speaker
able host so it would be kind of cool as like even like the later part of this feedback he's suggesting a successor for Dr. Fate it would be kind of cool if Zatara could kind of like narrate the proceedings as he kind of makes his exit but that's just pure speculation.
00:11:10
Speaker
Yeah, I do agree. It would be cool to see Zatara kind of close it out. As you said that I'm forgetting his first name, but Mr. Nelson, his predecessor. Kent Nelson. Kent Nelson, thank you. If he came back to kind of have like one last hurrah and just kind of welcome Zatara into like the relief of his position.
00:11:32
Speaker
Mm-hmm because he showed up like in that lineage but they showed more like the people we've seen on screen if you had a millennia of people like I was expecting avatar like where they show like all the avatars even though they were silhouetted they kind of stuck to the ones that we've only seen on screen so For someone to have like a deeper sense of that perspective would have been nice. So I wouldn't mind I really like what you're saying about Sotara, but I wouldn't be against seeing Clark Nelson either
00:11:59
Speaker
Yeah, it'd be very poignant and awesome to bring Kent Nelson back. And that kind of makes me think you're good. There's even the potential to like, they showed everybody that has worn the fate of helmet at one point or another. And it'd be a nice opportunity. We've gotten to revisit the character of Wally a couple of times recently. But I'm always game to have him come back into the proceedings in one way or another. There's a lot of flashbacks in this episode.
00:12:23
Speaker
Definitely, definitely. But that kind of leads perfectly into the next piece of feedback that I already mentioned. He's talking about Khalid, Khalid coming the next... Sorry, it's been said for me, but I keep leaning into the Eid part. I mean, you know what I mean? It's like, even with my name, it's so simple, but I prefer somebody just ask over and over again today. Yeah, yeah.
00:12:46
Speaker
Khaled, Khaled, Khaled. Thank you. Thank you. This is an education of J. Scottie St. Craig. It's like a lid, like a lid on a bowl. Yeah. I think the fact that they pointed out the wrong pronunciation has made me almost like lean into that more. Yeah, right. But anyway. Too much emphasis on both ends. Right, right, right. But I'm 100% with TJ. I don't know if I had considered it beforehand, but especially when Zatanna had that moment where she was like,
00:13:14
Speaker
she called him Doc and she was like, not yet. And it almost seemed like she was kind of having an out of body experience where she had tapped into the future and didn't even realize she had done it. I started to question myself a little bit as the episode went on and we got to see the full backstory with him actually being in medical school and his parents having those aspirations for him. It made me backtrack a little bit, but then I was fully back on board when,
00:13:42
Speaker
Nobu and Zatanna were having their conversation. She was defending them and you saw him framed in that shield, the gold shield that was showing him in the water and whatnot. I was like, okay, yeah, I feel pretty confident that he will be the next Doctor Fate. Could be. I can't say that I even thought about that while I was watching, but yeah, he seemed to be having the most progression
00:14:07
Speaker
not only with his powers, but kind of like his ethical agenda and like why he does what he does. Like it doesn't seem like he was just... Well, first off, it seems like magic has been in his lineage for a while. It's his uncle that was apparently a magic user as well. And then not only with how strong he is in his faith,
00:14:27
Speaker
but his desire to help people, whether it be as a medical doctor, or using his superpowers, he seems to have like the right ethical track to use fates powers for the right reason and actually fulfill the purpose of the host, the order Lord of orders objective. Yeah.
00:14:50
Speaker
Like I said, it makes a lot of sense to me, but I could see it going either way. And then I think the piece of feedback there that he addressed that really drives it home is I did not know, I don't know anything about Khalid from the comics and the fact that he wore the feet of Helmut in the comics, I think, seals the deal. This show is obviously doing its own thing, but it does reference and take a lot of homage from the comics for sure.
00:15:17
Speaker
And then what was the last the last part of his feedback I guess was regarding Yeah, we start about Beast Boy entirely because I mean it was it was a very short display of him but a powerful one nonetheless Yeah, it's uh, it's pretty concerning seeing him just kind of continue to go down that downward spiral and like I just keep harping on the fact that he was instructed by
00:15:43
Speaker
Was it Phantom Girl? I don't know if we've still gotten official names for those time traveling trio that included Chameleon Boy from the first few episodes, but I think it was Phantom Girl that posed as McGahn and instructed him to seek that therapy, but it's a little concerning that he has not followed up on that and he just kind of seems to be
00:16:03
Speaker
digging himself into a hole of depression. And on the other side of the things where we got to see these three young characters go through their trials of fate and come out on the other side, 13 specifically, I think had some really good material there. It's like you get to see the opposite side of the coin with Beast Boy, and it really just is heartbreaking seeing how plucky and gung-ho he's been throughout the show to just see him in this dark place is really tough.
00:16:30
Speaker
with how brave DC has been with the content that they're showing, um, covering social issues and whatnot. I'm worried that we're going to have a story of him actually being suicidal. I see it going in that direction. I'm really concerned about it. I don't know if I'm like emotionally ready for that. Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:53
Speaker
Like, uh, uh, again, you need a, you need to step up. You need to tell baby to speed it up a little bit and get home. Cause, uh, a little worried about this guy.
00:17:03
Speaker
Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if it goes in that territory as well. It is pretty dark. And again, with you, I don't know if I'm emotionally ready for that. But the show has a pretty wide audience. And I appreciate the aspects of the show that have spoken to me specifically. So I'm sure there are people out there that that would be exactly what they need to hear. So yeah, kudos to the show for tackling those tough issues and continuing to do so in such an appropriate and thoughtful manner.
00:17:30
Speaker
Is it bad that I didn't notice the pills on the bedside? Cause I was so focused on all the open pizza boxes. It's got to smell bad in there. Like you have animal keen smelling too. Like that's true. That's true. Yeah. He's just kind of wafting in it. Was it a, I think it was star girl that was kind of like the most well, she was excited. The fact that there was even like a mission on the table and then he was just like, you guys got this covered. And it's like, you got this covered. Is that our catchphrase now? Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:59
Speaker
Yeah, she doesn't she doesn't hold back her dialogue at all. And poor Wonder Girls. I mean, like hats off to her for being able to pick up a leadership position, because she was just kind of like, you know, the first time we saw her, she was making mistakes and caused trouble here and there. So to see her actually like in that bold stance of like I'm the boss of this team right now is I mean, she wasn't saying much, but you could tell how much she was taking in and how much she was processing because her as a leader is going to have to deal with that on an intense level very soon.
00:18:28
Speaker
Yeah, and she's rocking that new suit. I did notice she's got a nice new wonder outfit there. Yeah, it's wonderful. I see what you did there. I see what you did.
00:18:43
Speaker
Okay, I think that that covers all of Mr. Stafford's feedback, right? All right, so let's see this written feedback, we've got a couple of pieces of written feedback, both from Gmail. The first of if I'm not mistaken is Chrissy.
00:19:01
Speaker
Yeah. Hello, I'm Christine, but y'all can call me Chrissy. I've been listening for a few weeks now ever since I started my personal rewatch of Young Justice after finally getting HBO Max. So with that being said, I have a question.
00:19:15
Speaker
With the talk of Raven possibly making an appearance with the magic arc, do you think that with bringing the voice of Starfire back, that there is a possibility that Star might make an appearance as well? Not sure which arc it would be, but I think it would be totally crash, then we would have all the original titans from the show. What are your thoughts? Thank you for all you do and giving me the sanity to get through work. Stay well my dudes.
00:19:40
Speaker
I love that email so much. Yeah, it's a great one. You and Andrew had discussed the possibility of Starfire previously, right? But I don't know if Raven, or was it, do I have that reversed? Did you talk about Raven?
00:19:57
Speaker
context, if I'm remembering correctly, was when they had Doom Patrol go. All of the Doom Patrol members had the original voice actors from Teen Titans, which Garfield is already, he already has Beast Boyce's voice in season two, it was somebody else, and then they brought him in.
00:20:14
Speaker
Yeah. So it was really nostalgic to see the characters in that animation form with those voices. So we've heard all of those voices now. It's just a matter of if they're going to bring in those characters with the magic arc. Like we already have the demon of Etragon. So right. Trigon and Raven being something down the road, especially with all this chaos stuff, like who's to say that there isn't a rift that kind of brings him in. Mm hmm.
00:20:41
Speaker
I'd be open to see it, but if they did have the agenda of bringing all the Teen Titans back in, which are only missing Raven and Starfire, I don't see it happening in the same season with how much stuff is going on. If in the magic realm or with it being called Phantoms and some other dark stuff happening down the road, I could see Raven coming this season, but there's less of an emphasis on space and more of an emphasis on magic, which is why Raven is appropriate.
00:21:10
Speaker
and me just hoping to god that the show never ends and stays as wonderful as it is maybe in a future season I could see Starfire coming in but if there is an arc on each of these characters that we have so far I don't see like where they would open the door to go that far in a space to interact with Starfire if that makes sense
00:21:28
Speaker
Okay. Okay. And full transparency here. Those are characters that I really have no exposure to outside of the little bits of Young Justice Teen Titans that I've seen. You gotta watch all those DC animated movies.
00:21:42
Speaker
That's right. That's right. On the ever growing list. I do want to watch Teen Titans go though. That just looks like a blast. That'd be like a nice afternoon session sometime soon. But I agree with you just everything from seeing like the chaos and
00:22:00
Speaker
Order lords represented as diamonds i think it could go in either direction i think it does make more sense everything you're talking about with the emphasis on magic and it's already coming back on actually when it was introduced i was a little confused for a second i thought he might be trying to go they're just gonna go ahead and bring in that quickly but.
00:22:22
Speaker
Yeah, I got my names mixed up and thought the same thing. Okay. All right. Well, I think it was when I was reading the feedback or I don't remember what it was. Was it, was it the, the name of the episode? Did it have like last demon or something in it? Yes, it was obviously backwards. Yeah. So maybe demon like Trigon was the first thing that went to my head. Um, actually we did have a little bit of dialogue of Zatanna telling blood and stranger to go find some more help. Maybe Raven actually is around and that's one of the people that they recruit.
00:22:51
Speaker
No, that'd be sweet. It'd make it a lot easier than just her popping up because of this and that. It's like, no, I've been around. Explain her story later. Yeah. But I do agree with you that it'd be a lot to like make happen in one season because the trajectory so far, like it took all the way up into season three to get cyborg and we haven't even seen him. Have we seen him at all this season? Maybe once.
00:23:16
Speaker
maybe once as a background character. So season two, we got. So season one, we got Dick. Season two, we got Beast Boy. Season three, we got Cyborg. Four, we could get Raven and five could be Starfire.
00:23:27
Speaker
Yeah, I think we saw cyborg at the beginning of the season right after the boom tube from Mars to Earth exploded because they wanted to know what happened to John. And then he was right because it was like cyborg boom to be in and he was like, I don't have a picture of Mars to get to. Right, right, right, right. OK, so we have seen him a little bit. Yeah. So he's had more dialogue than Dick this season so far. Yeah. Because I don't think Dick or Calder have talked at all. It was just the end credits scene where they were looking at the memorial.
00:23:57
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like Calder might have had a line or two, but I don't think we've had Dick Grayson say a single word yet, which is...
00:24:06
Speaker
Surprising to not have heard Jesse McCartney's dulcet tones. Yeah, that's for me Yeah, and then I wanted that you were bringing up Beast Boys voice actor. I know that's Greg I don't know if it's Sipes or kipes, but CIP. Yes Okay, but he was the guy that voiced him and team Titans that they brought back so
00:24:29
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know. I think it was because I was actually reading the names and the credits today, but something possessed me for the first time in my life to look up the voice actress for Zatanna. And I was like, oh my God. I don't know what she looks like off the top of my head, but I'll- She's gorgeous. I believe it. I believe it. No, the whole like Sipes versus Kipes thing. The only reason I have so much hesitation there is because
00:24:54
Speaker
Killian Murphy, the actor Killian Murphy, for whatever reason, I read his name many, many times before I ever heard it said out loud. So I was under the impression it was Cillian, Cillian Murphy. So I went years and years thinking of this man as Cillian Murphy. And I honestly still have a hard time. I have to kind of like stop and be like, no, it's Killian Murphy.
00:25:12
Speaker
I can make you feel better about that. I was thinking about this yesterday, the first time that I did a presentation on Ansel Adams. I had never heard of Yosemite before. Oh, okay. I did my whole presentation calling it Yosmite. The teacher actually stopped me in the middle. She's like, are you trying to say Yosemite? I was like, is that how it feels? That's great. That's great.
00:25:39
Speaker
At the end of the day, all words are made up. So true. I didn't pull the immigrant card on that one. I was just kind of like, yeah, I feel stupid. No biggie. No biggie. Okay. Uh, so yeah, I think that addresses Chrissy's feedback. Sorry, we don't have any more, um, or I should say, sorry, I don't have much more speculation as far as that goes, but we do thank you for the feedback. Continue to send it in and stay well to yourself. And we've got one more piece here, right?
00:26:06
Speaker
Yes, we have Jim Brady, AJ, Scotty, and Zuhair. I would have called in, but I couldn't remember the Cast phone number. Just record a voice memo on your phone or device and just email it to animationdeliberationpodcastajima.com. Yeah, we don't actually have a dedicated line for the podcast set up, but maybe somewhere down the road.
00:26:27
Speaker
The quality so much better on a voicemail of being sent in than the call line. Anyway, so no, that's true. All right scratch that We want to hear you pristinely. Yes. Is that a word? Let's go with the word. Let's finish the only is a word
00:26:43
Speaker
Long time, first time. I think I've been listening since the beginning of your Young Justice coverage and I've been on MCUcast for years. Anyhow, I'm writing about a tweet I sent you guys a few weeks ago about how the first letter of every episode of Season 3 spells, Prepare the Anti-Life Equation. I was wondering y'all's speculation on what this season's cryptic message will be. With Episode 10 just premiering, so far we have Invitation. Let me know what you guys think, Jim.
00:27:12
Speaker
Okay. Okay. Yeah. So thank you, Jim. I do recall you sending that feedback on Twitter and that's totally on me. I dropped the ball. This is my first podcast and obviously trying to get the Instagram, the Facebook and the Twitter all going. Some things fall through the crack there, but I do appreciate you interacting with us on Twitter. And that was a great call out. I wish I would have brought it up during our coverage of season three, but yeah, really good stuff there.
00:27:40
Speaker
as far as feedback on the on like the content give us feedback like us as podcast hosts as well if there's anything that we can do that can make your listening experience or interaction experience better we're all of course of course yeah so i will do a better job of checking the twitter um other than that though as far as his um call out here of the first letter of every episode giving us a big message to look forward to so we've got invitation so far and
00:28:10
Speaker
I wanted to see what the next few episodes added on because he sent that last week. So now we've got Y, we can add Y on top of that as well. And then the episode titles for the next three are out as well. Okay. If you don't want to know the whole name, I won't say it, but the letters are T O and K. So Y, T O and K. Wait, where do you see Y?
00:28:38
Speaker
Wasn't that this, this episode or? It's tag. Oh, tag. Sorry. Uh, T okay. Tag you, you dare that you dare. Oh, see, I was taking the ready. I was reading it completely backwards. Yeah.
00:28:54
Speaker
Okay. I was starting from ready and going all the way backwards instead of taking the first word. And yeah, anyway. So that said this arc actually could be more than four episodes. So did episode nine start this one? So nine, 10, 11, 12, and 13 all have backward titles. Cool. So my girl gets five episodes.
00:29:18
Speaker
Right on, right on. So in terms of his theory here or his proposition here, I don't know if we're supposed to take the title as it was given in backwards format or if we're supposed to take it and invert it and then take the first letter that way. No, I think it's supposed to be the first because it's invitation two. Okay. And then K invitation to kill. How many more episodes? How many episodes was this supposed to be 26? Yes, I believe so.
00:29:50
Speaker
so less than halfway through invitation to krypton krypton we have we have 13 more letters that's a lot to speculate on 13 more okay so invitation to kill your
00:30:12
Speaker
Hmm. It might not even be kill. I'm just kind of stuck on that one for some reason. What other, what other verbs start with like K? Invitation to keep, keep. Yeah, dude. I don't know. I had a couple of letters for you, whether you wanted to know them or not, but with 13 letters left, like that's, that's one hell of a hangman game. Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:43
Speaker
Invitation to me that they're keeping up with that trend though. Yeah. Yeah. No, definitely. It's it's Great for eagle eyed fans. Um, like Jim so I'd love to hear what Jim's theories are there But I'm gonna stick that I'm pretty confident that the next verb is either keep or kill That's that's all I really got though. So All right, you heard it here first. Yeah, yeah and my script on apparently It could be krypton. I mean we still
00:31:14
Speaker
We do have those little fragments of a kryptonite that were used in the bomb that took out Connor. So the last one was what, the anti-life equation? Prepare the anti-life equation. Prepare the anti-life equation. So invitation to... Wow.
00:31:40
Speaker
There's the the Lost City of Kandor. I don't think that starts with a K. I want to say that starts with a C. And that's where Supergirl comes from. That was a Kryptonian city. That was basically. Oh, we haven't seen her yet either. That's what I was thinking with everything going on with like the Legion of Superheroes and the fact that Connor's gone. I feel like such a replacement.
00:32:06
Speaker
Yeah, but there's still the fact that we haven't seen a body. So that's why I keep saying he's gone. If they really wanted the little bit I know about the Legion of Super Heroes, Supergirl and Superboy are founding members of that. I don't know. Chris, he has me focused on Raven now. I'd rather see her pop up and deal with the loss of Connor and the introduction of Kara. Yeah. Well, and then we've got that. Connor and Kara, wow. Yeah.
00:32:36
Speaker
Well, we had outsiders last season and then phantoms this season. I'm trying to think like I thought I knew what outsiders meant last season, but I was completely oblivious to the fact that there was a whole group called the outsiders, but I don't think there is a group called phantoms or anything like that.
00:32:57
Speaker
Just, yeah, it's pretty crazy to be at this point in the season just like really have no clue where it's going in a lot of ways. So we got, we got two more episodes till our mid season break. Okay. Well, I think that's a covers about all the feedback there, unless you had anything else you wanted to say about any of those points that were brought up.
00:33:16
Speaker
Nope, I'm excited to find out everything with you guys. Woo-hoo, woo-hoo. All right, and this was a pretty feedback-heavy episode, which is really nice. I was excited to get that. But I almost feel like with our discussion of TJ's feedback, we've kind of almost covered the episode for the most part. So I'd say we're like... I mean, we've finished up on Beast Boy. Is there anything you wanted to say about the background stories?
00:33:39
Speaker
Just in terms of like the the best part of the episode for me was definitely the three trials of fate for our our students went and they actually kind of went in the order that we were presented for me I Really found myself buying into everything that was going on with Tracy the whole puppet show it looked like something out of like five nights at Freddy's with
00:34:02
Speaker
Blue Beetle and Zatanna all being represented by these super creepy puppets. And I mean, I kind of knew from the beginning, it was, it was kind of obvious that she was the puppeteer herself and it was her own insecurities, but it was, it was really nice to, um, that's something I struggle with is on myself. You can kind of like hear that, that voice in the back of your head telling you all the negative things. And it was just really awesome to see her say, like, I deal with these every single day. This is nothing for me. Like I am, I'm ready. That was just really.
00:34:32
Speaker
Powerful for me and then obviously I loved all of the stuff with al-id But I was I was really excited to hear like your take on that especially we kind of talked about the introduction of Islam with
00:34:47
Speaker
Violet in the in the previous episodes and stuff like that But I just thought this was me being a little more ignorant as far as that stuff goes I just I thought it was really refreshing to hear someone be like look I can take my faith and my belief in science and my belief in magic and incorporate all three to be you know The hero that I want to be so yeah, we talked about
00:35:11
Speaker
The inclusion of Islam was the only one that felt forced out of the social issues that they've covered so much with Gabrielle just kind of like randomly bringing it out of the blue and we haven't even seen her character. It was just an end credit thing. So I kind of, when that scene started, I kind of stuck with that mentality of like, okay, are they forcing this in here or is there an actual like progression? Is there an actual like involvement to this character?
00:35:37
Speaker
Oh my God, when the parents started talking, that was so relatable. I'm sure. That was such a cultural thing of the way that the dad was saying it's like nothing else matters except your faith.
00:35:52
Speaker
and then the mom was like you have to focus just on your studies and just on being a doctor and I was like oh my god that's so relatable because one of the one of the key conversations in Islam is the balance of din and dunya your spiritual world and your
00:36:09
Speaker
worldly world you're God what's the word I'm thinking of right now secular secular that's the word yeah so spiritual life in your secular life having the balance between that so that was represented through the way that his parents were talking to him one focus solely on the dim part and once solely on the dunya part but
00:36:30
Speaker
Mmm, and then not only was that but he was like Confronting like his own ethics and his own moral like knowing that this is the route that he's supposed to take to be a better human but like he wants to take the risk he wants to He wants to actually follow his calling knowing that it may not work out for him because the time is even Emphasizing like you're probably gonna die by taking on this mission. So I want to make sure that you're ready so not only is
00:36:56
Speaker
the din pulling him, the dunya pulling him, his like yindin yang is conflicting with each other too and like all that stuff is so beautiful and
00:37:05
Speaker
that there was a lot of symbolism for me of like, the drowning wasn't necessarily him suffocating. But it was him finding the peace and solitude to get his thoughts together. Because there was a lot of like practice in that with meditation, where they just like cut off the lights and everything in the prayer hall. And it's 10 minutes of you just focus on one word, one prayer,
00:37:29
Speaker
and just recite that over and over and over and over again. That's your meditation. So in this one, it was, which means like there is no God, there's no deity but God, and there is no messenger except for the Prophet Muhammad. So that was what he was reciting over and over again. So he got his focus from that. He got his balance from that. And then once he was ready, once he was
00:37:56
Speaker
Once he got what he needed from that meditation state, he was able to come out and not only find the balance between himself, but bring that Din and Dunia together, which was stunning, just so well done. That's the inclusion that I wanted to see from that religion.
00:38:12
Speaker
Awesome. Awesome. Those are great points that you bring up and I really like what you bring up about the water, not necessarily suffocating him, but allowing him to, it kind of reminds me of the Bruce Lee quote, just like be water. Water can either be a force of chaos or it's fitting with chaos and order kind of being the focal point of this art. Water is capable of both. It depends on how you use it. And he's talking about this tool that was created by the same creator that created him. It's a tool that he has at his arsenal.
00:38:39
Speaker
Just everything about that scene I'm kind of getting chills again just like thinking about it But the way the the prayers were like vocalized and they weren't even in the subtitles that I that I had on It wasn't until he started to join in that you got those the subtitles But it was just everything about the visuals the audio was was made a beautiful cohesive hold and a very very transformative and poignant moment. So I really appreciate your insights as far as that goes and
00:39:04
Speaker
Yeah, I felt so recognized. Yeah. And then don't get me wrong, I like the stuff with Mary too. I thought we got a lot of good insights into... Oh, really powerful stuff. Yeah, into her character. I just didn't think any parts of that were as strong in terms of the visual metaphors that we got. I thought Tracy's stuff was really good with the puppetry and just everything we talked about with.
00:39:26
Speaker
Khalid there. Yeah, I like Mary's stuff, but the biggest takeaway for me was not the visual display there. It was what we learned from her interactions with Billy Batson specifically about how it kind of reminded me of the stories you hear about with steroids and stuff like that with athletes where, you know,
00:39:45
Speaker
they tap into this other source of power, but it becomes a little bit too much and they don't feel adequate without it. That's why she kind of had to quit cold turkey and it was just great to get the insight there why she was in the head space that she was. Yeah, there was a lot of reliance and self-doubt and who you are without those outside supports, which I think was a common trend between all three of them.
00:40:12
Speaker
Sure. It was a lot of self doubt, a lot of denial, a lot of not believing in yourself. And yeah, she got she got carried away with her power. So she was only using like the specific ones that she needed. And I, I had totally forgotten, like, in the Shazam movie, how there actually were like multiple Shazams. Great.
00:40:34
Speaker
in multiple people who were capable of using that power. So that slipped my mind a little bit. So that was a nice affirmation of not only one person has that ability, it is able to be passed on between people. But seeing how Billy reacted to it and how she reacted to it, she got power hungry.
00:40:53
Speaker
And I think her character was the most that I was curious about before these trials because it was so mysterious of why she couldn't say the word and the way that her younger self was just pushing her to do it.
00:41:08
Speaker
So it's like she peer pressured herself into making the wrong decision But if she has that confidence now and that it built like I hope it doesn't backfire in the future I hope that this actually was like an awakening for her even though we won't be like had her for like two episodes but Yeah, it didn't have the same visual appeal but the message I think was just as powerful as the other yeah, no III agree. Yeah Yeah, it was just uh, it was great to see them all as kind of like
00:41:36
Speaker
Zatanna was watching and you could tell she had her moments were like are they gonna be able to make it out on the other side of this but then sure enough they all do and then she kind of has that moment with Dr. Fate there's like there's a specific reason I chose every single one of them and they are ready and they've proven that to you now so let's let's make this fight happen and then I you talked about your frustrations with Nobu I can I can imagine that they start here but what do you got what do you got
00:42:04
Speaker
Oh, she didn't even call them her students, they're her sentinels. Ah, good touch. She elevated them before the call of action even came up. Nice, nice, good catch there. Yeah. Because the whole thing was that she wanted her and Fate to handle the Chaos Lords while they like kept everything in check. So they really were like the sentinels and the Overwatch and keeping the order for lack of a better phrase.
00:42:31
Speaker
Right, right. But then, yeah, Nobu continues to be the douche canoe that he's been lately. And he was just like, yeah, if two Chaos Lords are fighting, like everything we, the whole backstory that we've shared here about, you know, the
00:42:51
Speaker
chaos lords versus the order lords. If two chaos lords are fighting, it only stands to reason that order is not going to get involved until one of them has weakened the other. And then he gets to eat those words really quickly because I was absolutely stunned. I think I was as stunned as Claryon himself was by how quickly he and Teagle were taken out.
00:43:16
Speaker
Yeah, what was what was child's words like? You made that sound like a lot more difficult than it was. Yeah, just like her her directness with such an adorable voice. Excuse me.
00:43:29
Speaker
Yeah, she makes me so uncomfortable, especially with that freaky smile on Flaw right next to her. Oh, right, right. Yeah. And when he just not to get like too graphic with her or anything like that, when he grabbed Tickel's head and you just hear that snap and everyone you first you see Clarion's face, but then it's it flashes to everybody in the fate of tower and everybody knows like, oh, even fate size. Exactly. Exactly. I might have made a mistake by letting me
00:43:58
Speaker
chaos lords fight it out because that wasn't much of a fight yeah that that dial just to start off like my list of irritation with fate and it's not even cuz like I I hate it at all it's like it's just such good writing like thank you DC for doing such a good job writing these characters that I care to this extent but like
00:44:17
Speaker
Your job is order. You are taking over this human's body to protect people, and your logic is you're just gonna let other people die and Earth get destroyed. In an effort of letting these two Chaos Lords go at it, like, no! That defeats the whole purpose! Supposed to stop both of them from the get-go!
00:44:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Nobu's got some learning to do, even if he is. A couple millennia years old, he picked up a thing or two. Yeah, right? Yeah. But hopefully he realizes that the threat is much more significant than he thought. And it seems that way. So hopefully they do assemble a
00:45:00
Speaker
A squad that can, can tackle this very, very scary threat and child. Yeah. And maybe, maybe we'll have Raven, Raven joined that fray. We'll have to see. Maybe Constantine could pop up. Ooh. I know they're sticking with the younger crew, but that would be cool to see him a little bit. Yeah. I totally be down for that. Um, but was this the first time that we saw floating helmet fate talk to a host since season one?
00:45:27
Speaker
Ooh, since season one, that could be. I think you're right, yeah. That was very beautiful dialogue of Zatara hasn't had the opportunity to be the father to his daughter, so he has to give the father lecture to Nobu.
00:45:43
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah. No, and I'm glad you bring that up too, because that was one of the biggest surprises for the season for me as well. That Zatara is a man of faith and specifically Christianity and the fact that he actually delivered the Lord's Prayer there. And you got to hear it in English and Italian, like that was a beautiful touch. Yeah, yeah, that was super cool. I'm assuming that was Italian. It could be Latin. If I'm wrong, correct me, forgive me. But the fact that there was inclusion of a different language was beautiful.
00:46:12
Speaker
It probably was Latin, but I've only watched it the once, so. Yeah, same. Other than that, I did notice, so we talked about Thirteen. Has she always had that pet on her shoulder? I don't know if it's like a frog or a gecko or what. I think this season was the first time we've seen it. Okay, okay, because I did a little bit of research to find out in the comics it's an iguana named Leroy, but that's clearly much smaller than an iguana unless it's like a baby iguana.
00:46:43
Speaker
Leroy Jenkins. I'm a big fan of amphibians and reptiles and whatnot. Maybe not as much as a friend of the show of Blake Geilenvelt, but little creatures like that always catch my eye. I mean, she hasn't dressed him up yet, so she can't be that big of a fan. No hat yet. We don't have a hat for her.
00:47:04
Speaker
The only other thing I've got is this school bus that has been a recurring gag and it just went balls to the wall now. It's been flying through space the last few episodes and now it seems to be traversing the multiverse. It has become the magic school bus. I can't even remember where it factored originally at this point. Dang it. I was hoping you knew because I was like, I'm just going to wait until J. Scottie brings it up because I don't remember where it started. I was like, this is a lot of yelling. There's something else going to happen right now.
00:47:33
Speaker
Yeah. Um, I wish I knew, but I kind of wonder where they're going with it at this point. They're like, it's been since season one. And then I don't think we saw it in season two, but then season three, it popped up a couple of times. It was early in season one. I can't recall off the top of my head. Um, it's probably on the young justice Wiki though. There's like YouTube videos and Reddit threads just called a young justice magic bus theory.
00:48:05
Speaker
Well, it's not cruising on down Main Street anymore. I can say that much. Oh, it's a video. There's nothing for me to read. No. Okay. Well, we'll keep an eye out on that bus. If our listeners have some good bus theories, let us know what you're thinking.
00:48:21
Speaker
Yeah, like send us the theories before you actually look into it. I just want to see. Let's let's see. Let's call our shots. I just I don't know what it's about. I don't even remember seeing it before. I thought it was the most. I was like, did something happen where like a bus went through a portal or something? Am I? I noticed. Yeah, I noticed it a couple of times in the past. I remember like seeing it like flying through the sky earlier on and wondering what was going on there, but it's just like a real fleeting thought. It wasn't until when it started showing up again in season three that it really started to stick out to me, but not enough for me to bring it up until
00:48:51
Speaker
This point obviously did you see like the driver seat like there was a lot of big displays? Like in a dash in front of him. That's oh, no I didn't pick up on that aspect of a bus like monitors interesting interesting Hmm, I was looking around like trying to find some indication of what's going on. I was like well bus
00:49:15
Speaker
I don't know. I do not know, but I will be excited to see where they go with it. Before I get stuck in my rabbit hole, what was the three words that they emphasize? Was it family, faith, and mentor? Yes. Of the three things that you need in life that get you by in your most difficult moments? Yeah.
00:49:39
Speaker
Yeah, that was that was that was a beautiful thing. It actually did kind of give me like a moment to reflect of like, you know, the people who have influenced me to get me where I am. You know, they say family, but you know, just like you and the other pandas that have grown to be very close with this year. You know, you choose your own family. So and then I already had no monologue about faith so you can go back a few minutes if you want to hear that again. So yeah, it was it was a really important thing for them to just kind of emphasize like,
00:50:09
Speaker
You are capable of doing things on your own. You are in charge of your own fate, your own destiny, and how you present yourself to the world. But you do need to find these things to help influence and mold that person so you can be just the best version of yourself.
00:50:25
Speaker
Of course, of course. And that's what we're all striving to do. We're all striving to be superheroes and be as crash as possible. So yeah, found family is huge and it still fits that alliteration there with the F. So. Yeah. Said it much better than I could have. So yeah. That was a good episode.
00:50:47
Speaker
Yeah, it was super solid, super solid. I'm really impressed with season four thus far. I mean, I've liked all of the seasons, but admittedly, I think the collective opinion is that season three, I'm trying to think of the right way of saying it. It went kind of a weird direction in terms of focusing on new characters so much that we found ourselves missing the old characters. But I don't know, with an episode like this, it's tough not to just fall in love with these new characters instantly.
00:51:15
Speaker
Yeah, it is one of those things where it's like, it took what, six, seven years for them to just revive the show. So it's not like they even had any momentum they were going off of it was like, we got canceled on Cartoon Network. Okay, now there's this new streaming service, which surprise we're in the world of streaming now. And then them having to reconvene and get everything back together on that point, like,
00:51:37
Speaker
It's a lot. That really was a tall order and they did as good as they did and then COVID held them back for this one. So really just hats off to the writers and their ability to still provide such impeccable storytelling with
00:51:52
Speaker
They have so many handicaps on them. Yeah. Yeah. This is basically like cement in their shoes and they're trying to like walk this path to storytelling and it's very difficult and they're doing a fantastic job. And we we applauded how smooth and beautiful the action sequences have been in this season. But they're also mirroring what I love about the Disney Plus Marvel series is that there's just impeccable dialogue.
00:52:18
Speaker
Like there's conversations that really make you think about like morality and ethics and things of that sort. And the dialogue alone is just something that's really fun to keep up with.
00:52:30
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, the action every week is great, but I don't know if it would be the show that continues to keep chugging along and overcoming all the obstacles that you described if it didn't have that heart and that gripping subject matter too. Aside from the next snap, we didn't even have any action this episode.
00:52:50
Speaker
Yeah, it wasn't actual action. We got the montages when Nobu was giving the backstory of stuff like that, which we haven't really highlighted enough. I do appreciate just the level of detail that you get on those still images that kind of just the camera pans over. And the one that stuck out to me in this episode was
00:53:10
Speaker
Was it it was before they showed the sinking of Atlantis when they were just kind of showing the sacking of a village and what the chaos lords were capable of and everything was kind of done with a red overtone. I just love those opportunities where they can go. Okay, let's get away from the realism for a second. Not that it's the most realistic, but it's obviously trying to be in a grounded reality.
00:53:29
Speaker
It's like, let's just embrace a completely different artistic style and, you know, lean into the animated format there. So it really does feel like you're laying in bed and your parent is next to you, like holding the book open and like reading the story as they turn the pages because you can't read the word. So you're just focused on the images and like how it's presented. Like it's really nice. Great comparison to your rhyme type. Great, great comparison. I love it. Love it.
00:53:54
Speaker
Okay, I think that is everything I have to say about this week's episode. It's been a pleasure and look forward to next week. Anything else you got?
00:54:07
Speaker
Demon Slayer Entertainment District has finally started. It's the first two episodes. Set a really good foundation. So we're going to give you the weekly coverage of Young Justice. We got two more episodes until they go on their mid-season break. And then that's going to be our weekly coverage because, who is it good?
00:54:26
Speaker
Yeah, I can't wait to get back into that. I just, when you told me that they'd moved on from the Moogan train arc and then the new stuff, I was like, okay, time to start my rewatch. And yeah, the first episode was almost an hour or two. Ooh, nice. So it really was a good like foundation setting of, um, of what to expect from this arc. And then they just shot straight into it.
00:54:48
Speaker
Certainly, certainly. With that in mind, I guess the only other thing I'll kind of tease there is we talked a little bit about No Way Home being out in theaters now. I have not had a chance to see it yet, but once I have, there is the trailer for Across the Spider-Verse Part 1 that I know we've kind of talked about doing our reaction to, but I think it would make more sense
00:55:09
Speaker
Now that No Way Home is out, maybe we can speculate a little bit more and have more informed theories and decisions there with the context of that movie. But yeah, we discussed maybe bringing in Blake, who I've mentioned a couple of times already. He joined me for Hit Monkey, and he is a resident Spider-Man fanatic.
00:55:32
Speaker
Definitely excited for that one. And sooner rather than later, we'll just have to tackle that first Spider-Verse movie just for the hell of it. Yeah, I don't need any excuse to watch it again. Yeah, nor do I. Nor do I. All righty. Well, thanks everybody for tuning in. That's T-O-O-N-I-N. Continue to do so. That's it for me. And as always, stay well.
00:55:56
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Animation Deliberation Podcast, a proud member of the Strandepanda Network. If you would like to contact us, you can email animationdeliberationpodcast at gmail.com or follow us on Twitter at animationdelib1. For this and other great shows, you can visit Strandepanda.com or join the great community that is the Strandepanda Chat Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash svchat. Tune in next time and remember, stay well.
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Speaker
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