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EP661: Peter Forcelli - Confessions Of The Operation Fast & Furious Whistleblower
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“You can’t fix what you’re not willing to talk about.”
Integrity isn’t just a virtue—it’s the backbone of any successful business. In a world where cutting corners can be tempting and truth can feel like a liability, standing firm on your values sets you apart. Leadership isn’t about doing what’s easy; it’s about doing what’s right, even when it costs you. The greatest entrepreneurs, like the greatest leaders, build legacies not on deception, but on a foundation of trust, accountability, and unwavering truth. Because in business, as in life, reputation is everything.
Peter Forcelli knows the cost of telling the truth. As a former ATF special agent and federal investigator, he found himself at the center of one of the U.S. government’s most controversial scandals. When he saw wrongdoing, he spoke up—at great personal and professional risk. In this episode, he shares what it means to uphold integrity under pressure, why honesty is a non-negotiable in leadership, and how staying true to your principles can define your legacy.
Peter Forcelli is a retired law enforcement professional, whistleblower, and author of The Deadly Path. With over two decades in federal service, he fought corruption from the inside, exposing unethical practices that endangered lives. Today, he speaks on leadership, ethics, and the power of truth, helping business leaders apply the same principles of integrity in their own pursuits.
Expert action steps:
- Protect your reputation at all costs.
- Don’t be afraid to ask for help.
- Take care of yourself first.
Learn more & connect:
Website: https://www.peterjforcelli.com/
Book: “The Deadly Path” by Peter Forcelli
https://www.peterjforcelli.com/product-page/the-deadly-path-signed-hardcover
Visit https://www.eCircleAcademy.com and book a success call with Nicky to take your practice to the next level.
Recommended
Transcript
Peter's Whistleblowing Decision
00:00:03
Speaker
I felt compelled to notify Congress and blow the whistle. I spent 40 years of my life clearing my name because obviously they alleged that I was lying, that they would never do such thing. So there were some people who thought I'd betrayed, colleagues who I worked with or friends. The reality is just like I raised my hand and I sp swore an oath to the people of the United States.
00:00:20
Speaker
The Constitution symbol of the people.
Introduction to the Thought Leader Revolution
00:00:26
Speaker
Welcome to the Thought Leader Revolution with Nikki Ballou. Join the revolution. There's never been a better time in history to speak your truth, find your freedom, and make your fortune. Each week, we interview the world's top thought leaders and learn the secrets of how they built a six to seven figure practice.
00:00:43
Speaker
This episode has been brought to you by ecircleacademy.com, the proven system to add six to seven figures a year to your thought leader practice.
00:00:54
Speaker
Welcome to another exciting episode of the podcast, The Thought Leader Revolution. I'm your host, Nicky Ballou. And boy, do we have an amazing guest lined up for you
Peter Forsali's Role in History
00:01:04
Speaker
today. Today's guest is a friend of a friend of the shows.
00:01:08
Speaker
He's a man who has played pivotal role in an important, important moment in American history, and he's built himself quite the reputation as a result.
00:01:22
Speaker
I am speaking, of course, of none other than the one, the only, the legendary Peter Forsali. Welcome to show, Peter. Thanks for having me here. i don't know about legendary, but it's an honor to be here. ah so not to have you here So, Peter, buddy, you and I spoke off camera, and let's just get right to it, man.
00:01:42
Speaker
Tell us your story. What is it that thrusts you into the limelight as the great Peter Forselli?
Operation Fast and Furious Explained
00:01:50
Speaker
sure Well, what happened was I was a police officer and a special agent with ATF in New York City for 22 years and promoted and went out to Arizona.
00:01:59
Speaker
um And look, I saw how policing is supposed to work. When I got out to Arizona, I saw some things that blew my mind. I saw federal prosecutors not prosecuting firearms traffickers, making up excuses as to why they couldn't take those cases.
00:02:11
Speaker
One of those excuses was once the guns made their way to Mexico, they couldn't prosecute a case because guns are smuggled. you know We didn't always know about the smuggling until after it happened. But their excuse was once the gun made its way to Mexico, that the case was unprosecutable.
00:02:25
Speaker
Well, in 2009, my group's focus changed to focus on home invasion robbery investigations because Phoenix led the United States in home invasion, robberies and kidnappings. They were second in this hemisphere behind Mexico City, which is a much larger city. So was something that had to be addressed. And so the new a new group was stood up to deal with the Mexico-bound firearms trafficking.
00:02:44
Speaker
And they started this case called Operation Fast and Furious, which started in um roughly October of 2009.
Tracing Guns to Crimes
00:02:52
Speaker
And none of us knew what was going on until a Border Patrol agent named Brian Terry was murdered with a gun that we learned ATF let right off into the sunset. Because when we would get calls from gun dealers about suspicious purchases, we would stop cars, ask questions and seize firearms and refer people for prosecution all the time.
00:03:09
Speaker
um Very often those people weren't prosecuted, but we would have those guns in our custody. They would be in evidence. They would never hurt anybody. So the whole philosophy behind this new group's methodology was troublesome to me because it really just jeopardized public safety in the United States and in Mexico.
00:03:25
Speaker
And the prosecutors who for years wouldn't take the cases because the guns made their way to Mexico were part of the strategy to allow the guns to go to Mexico. hoping that they could trace them back from crime scenes to tied to cartels.
00:03:37
Speaker
The problem is when guns are recovered in Mexico, they're often recovered after shootings or after gun battles with Mexican military, Mexican law enforcement.
Moral Implications and Whistleblowing
00:03:46
Speaker
So, I mean, you're you're basically tying these guns to dead bodies, which was reprehensible. So once we found out about Brian Terry's death and what they were doing in that group, I felt compelled to notify Congress and blow the whistle.
00:03:58
Speaker
And, um you know, as a result, the government doesn't like when you when you spill some of their secrets. um I spent four years of my life clearing my name because obviously they alleged that I was lying, that they would never do such thing. and Amazingly, some of those declinations for the cases I spoke of that they said that they never declined were in writing.
00:04:15
Speaker
um And, you know, with witnesses to many of these declinations as well. So it's just the government really dropped the ball and endangered the public in this now ill-fated situation. investigation that became a a national or actually international scandal because, I mean, obviously it involved dead bodies and in the United States, being that border patrol agent, and countless dead bodies in Mexico.
00:04:37
Speaker
And the sad part is guns don't biodegrade. They don't evaporate.
Clearing Peter's Name
00:04:40
Speaker
They're not apples or eggs. So those guns will continue to turn up um long after I'm dead, even if I die an old man. So, I mean, it's really just a horrible scandal and a horrible stain on the on the reputation of American law enforcement.
00:04:52
Speaker
But I felt compelled to tell the truth about um Good for you, man. That took big brass balls in order to do so. um What was the reaction of your superiors when you did this?
00:05:06
Speaker
Well, truthfully, it was mixed. Like, the thing. i think I was blessed when it comes to whistleblowers because some are just crushed. um But what that group did was so against the grain of what my fellow agents believed in that, you know, had a kind of a mixed bag reaction. Like the the command staff in Phoenix was removed and a new command staff was put in place. And one of them was a gentleman named Tom Brandon.
00:05:27
Speaker
ah Michigan guy, he's from Detroit area. And, you know, it's funny because when I told him I was going to testify in front of Congress, he handed me a St. Michael challenge coin, very Catholic, very devout Catholic, in fact, handed me the St. Michael challenge coin and said, listen, as long as you're telling the truth,
00:05:42
Speaker
I have your back. Run to the truth. You know, are they going to throw fastballs at you You're go to have to hit them out of the park. So I had people like Tom who were advocates. And then I had others who felt like, hey, you shouldn't be talking bad about what other people do. You know, yeah or some people liked the folks that were involved in that case because they weren't necessarily bad people, certainly very misguided.
00:06:01
Speaker
So, I mean, some folks and I knew them, that some of them were friends. But, you know, i mean you can't tolerate that sort of behavior. Friends are no friends. So there were some people who thought I'd be trade colleagues who I worked with or friends. So, but the reality is, is like I raised my hand and I swore an oath to the people of the United States um when i raised my hand and swore to the constitution, right? constitution is a symbol of the people.
00:06:21
Speaker
So i just felt I did what the taxpayers expected me to do. And i had some allies as a result, and I had many enemies. But the the strange thing was like, because I was out there for years and saw what I saw and Tom Brandon and some of the other folks who had my back weren't there, and they couldn't necessarily fight for me.
Reactions and Support
00:06:40
Speaker
But they absolutely gave me top cover and they gave me the space to fight for myself, which a lot of whistleblowers don't get. So in many ways, it was a challenge that myself and my family went through. But in um many other ways, I was blessed to have good people who who had my back.
00:06:56
Speaker
That's amazing, man. um You know, when... You go into public service in the United States, I've noticed that everyone swears a very similar oath. Everyone says that they swear to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies, foreign and domestic, right?
00:07:16
Speaker
And it it's it's a very simple yet powerful oath. There's no room for ambiguity in that oath, right? There's no, unless they're my friends, unless they're part of the hierarchy, there's no ambiguity there, right? It's just all enemies, foreign and domestic.
00:07:34
Speaker
And it strikes me that um these folks that were allowing this ah illegal ah gun trafficking by known transnational criminal organizations to take place under their nose were subverting the U.S. Constitution. Am I mistaken?
Legal Challenges of Gun Trafficking
00:07:56
Speaker
Well, they were allowing things to happen that I think jeopardized parts of the United States Constitution. Like, for example, this firearms trafficking to Mexico, right now, in fact, this week that just passed, the United States Supreme Court heard arguments where the government of Mexico is suing members of the United States gun industry. And the amazing thing to me is the only firearms dealer they named in their...
00:08:17
Speaker
arguments before the court, Mexico, that being Mexico, was a dealer who was cooperating with ATF when we were interdicting guns and who was told to continue to order, continuing to sell guns to known traffickers by this new group um when they knew those guns weren't being interdicted. So I think it jeopardized the Second Amendment. And I believe that the agents in group, their goal was to try to take down a cartel using a different strategy. Because again, when we were seizing the guns and we were getting confessions, the prosecutors weren't prosecuting cases.
00:08:47
Speaker
And this went on for years. So, i mean, we still took some cases to state prosecutors. We still seized those guns so they weren't going hurt anybody. And they stayed there forever because no one was going to, you know, to trial.
00:08:57
Speaker
But I think that their intentions were to take down a cartel. And it was just an incredibly misguided and and vile way to try to, I guess, reinvent the wheel. so I don't know if their intent was to subvert the Constitution, but they certainly jeopardized parts of it in doing what they did.
00:09:13
Speaker
Well, intention, you know, they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions, right? Intention doesn't really matter, legally speaking.
00:09:23
Speaker
What matters is the result. And the result here is there were laws that were broken, right? Am I mistaken in this? Well, they they allowed laws to be broken continually. one A straw purchaser, for example, is someone who buys a gun with the intent on giving that gun to somebody else, a trafficker, more sometimes a felon.
00:09:40
Speaker
So one straw purchaser in that case alone, purchased over 800 firearms, not in one shot. i mean, over the course of many, many, many months before the federal prosecutors felt he was worthy of indictment.
00:09:52
Speaker
And when you think about this, how many guns did he use before he was arrested or rather trafficked that were used to kill people before he was arrested. We know that Brian Terry, a Border Patrol agent, U.S. law enforcement officer, was one.
00:10:05
Speaker
But in Mexico, there were countless bodies, police officers, military tied to these guns. Helicopters, Mexican helicopters were shot down with guns that were trafficked as part of that program.
00:10:16
Speaker
um So, I mean, it was catastrophic, you know, in in so many ways, the loss of life, the the relations between the United States and Mexico, the reputation of U.S. law enforcement as a result.
00:10:26
Speaker
um So i ah there is no justification. I will never defend but that program or or the stupidity of the people involved in it. And here we've had 14 years to think about it, and I still can't understand their strategy, how it would have worked.
00:10:41
Speaker
Because the Drug Enforcement Administration with the drug laws, very powerful drug laws in the United States, the DEA has very big networks of informants in Mexico. They have vetted units of Mexican soldiers that they work with.
00:10:53
Speaker
ATF has none of those things. So the whole concept itself was, I mean, I don't know of another word other that than idiotic. Well, if you are a law enforcement officer and you knowingly let people break the law, isn't that in itself against the law?
00:11:08
Speaker
Yes, it is. You're supposed to have permission from federal prosecutors, which they had. And that's the other thing that I want to point out. Like you always hear about scandals involving the police or federal agents.
00:11:19
Speaker
Rarely do you hear the complicity of federal prosecutors in some of these scandals. And in this one, I would argue that it was a scandal. ah level of culpability. Because listen, say again, we were we never asked for permission stop a car containing illegal guns that we knew were going to cartels. We didn't call a prosecutor and ask for permission.
00:11:38
Speaker
And when they wouldn't when they would prosecute, we would try to take those cases to the county. So the fact, or the state sometimes, so the fact that these ATF agents were going to listen to these prosecutors is not a defense because they could have taken another path.
00:11:52
Speaker
The path of letting guns fall into the hands of cartels is never the proper path. Never, ever. You'll never convince me otherwise. So isn't it against the law for a prosecutor to not prosecute someone?
00:12:06
Speaker
No. And that's the thing that blows my mind. Like you hear a lot of arguments in the United States about, you probably heard qualified immunity, which which protects law enforcement. And that's when the law enforcement officer makes an honest mistake, acting in good faith. They're following their agency's policies. They're following the law.
00:12:21
Speaker
What happens is that law that officer is entitled to have representation in court. If they did that, they can be prosecuted for not following policy or not following the law.
00:12:32
Speaker
In the United States, judges and prosecutors have absolute immunity. So what they do is they fall back on, hey, we used prosecutorial discretion. 800 firearms before it's time to indict somebody goes far beyond prosecutorial discretion. So when you talk about fixing the criminal justice system in the United States, we talk very often about police.
00:12:51
Speaker
We don't talk enough about holding attorneys accountable, prosecuting attorneys, and sometimes even judges. I mean, sometimes judges, you know, make decisions that are way outside of our laws and our constitution.
00:13:04
Speaker
um And it's basically allowed. Yeah, that's ridiculous. um I think President Trump and his administration need to do something about that. yeah um You know, there was a ah there was a um prosecuting attorney back in the George Bush administration I think, yeah was his last name Fitzgerald or Fitzpatrick? He was from Chicago.
00:13:30
Speaker
yeah ah Yeah. I got to tell you, that guy belongs in a prison cell for the rest of his life, as far as I'm concerned. The things that he did were all criminal.
00:13:42
Speaker
If he did not have ah the shield of ah his office protecting him, he would have been thrown in jail for what he did. The way that he went after people, the way that he went after ruining their lives...
00:13:53
Speaker
He belongs in a jail cell. And it boggles my mind that this doesn't happen. So one of um one of the cases that I followed myself for many, many years is the case of ah Conrad Black, who comes from my country, Canada.
00:14:10
Speaker
He was ah the um chairman of a publicly traded company called Hollinger Inc. that bought all these small newspapers back in the eighty s and 90s.
00:14:21
Speaker
And the former chairman of the SEC got a hard-on for him and went after him. And ah this prosecutor was one of the prosecutors that went after him.
00:14:32
Speaker
And man, they hounded him and threw him in jail, even though he made his shareholders hundreds of millions of dollars. Like this guy didn't hurt anybody. In fact, he enriched everybody involved.
00:14:44
Speaker
And they just wanted a big scalp. There was ah a time where that was going to be good for their career. So they went after a guy that got a big scalp. And he went to jail. He was finally pardoned.
00:14:55
Speaker
and got out of ah out out of prison, but he should have never been in there first place. And the fact that someone was able to do this to him blew me away. Absolutely blew me away. Let's look at this. No one was killed, right? No one was in the jeopardy of losing their life as a result, and he was prosecuted. And then you look in Arizona, where you had countless, and I mean dozens upon dozens of firearms traffickers, trafficking to not just one cartel, but to several cartels who weren't prosecuted.
00:15:20
Speaker
So it tells you how how messed up our system is when those priorities are skewed. But yeah, I mean, a lot of it is politically driven, unfortunately. And you bring up Chicago. In 2014, I was actually assigned to be the ATF representative to Canada, to Eastern Canada. So I covered from Manitoba to the Maritimes. Wonderful place to work. I love the Canadian police officers. The Toronto Police Service worked through every day. OPP.
00:15:43
Speaker
In fact, the weapon that's on a plaque behind me, it's not an actual functioning gun. It was given to me by the Ontario Provincial Police when I left Canada. But while I was up there, I was sent to Chicago.
00:15:55
Speaker
Right. So we talk about Chicago, how they prosecuted this gentleman involved in that particular incident. um The reason I was set there was ATF wanted to go after people who were shooting other people in Chicago.
00:16:06
Speaker
And one of the things that they wanted to do was replicate some of the stuff that we had done in New York, which was before I went to Phoenix, which was to go after felons that were caught with guns and to interview them and find out what other crimes they knew about. we were solving all kinds of cases.
00:16:19
Speaker
Again, nothing fancy. This is routine police work. And going to Chicago, where they were so willing to prosecute that gentleman, they weren't willing to prosecute armed criminals because they felt it was beneath them. So again, the the system is not it's not just.
00:16:32
Speaker
you know I mean, it's the Department of Justice, and I think in many parts of the country they do a great job. In some other parts of the country they don't. And and in many instances it's it's politically motivated.
Political Dynamics in Congress
00:16:42
Speaker
Yeah, 100%.
00:16:43
Speaker
hundred percent it's It boggles my mind. So when you went to Congress, who in Congress really championed your cause and who was trying to rattle your credibility to the ground? Yeah.
00:16:55
Speaker
Well, it was actually Senator Chuck Grassley's office. He's a big, he put together a lot of laws that pertain to whistleblower protection. That's his cause du jour, his whistleblower protection has been for many decades.
00:17:07
Speaker
So he was already catching wind of some of the stuff that was happening in Phoenix. So I contacted him. Now at the time, he was the ranking member of Senate Judiciary, so he didn't have subpoena authority.
00:17:17
Speaker
So he had to reach out to Darrell Issa from California, who was the chairman of the oversight committee. And this way they can they can issue me a subpoena to kind of cover me in some way. Yeah. um So but I had the Republicans were on my side.
00:17:32
Speaker
The Democrats weren't, which was was interesting is because what was going on is they were trying to skew the narrative that this whole thing was started by Barack Obama and pushed down. And then the Democrats are saying, no, no, no, this started under George Bush and it continued through Obama.
00:17:46
Speaker
The reality is it started in Phoenix, basically. During Obama's term, it was not going on before um Obama came into office. And I'm not saying that Barack Obama knew about it when it started, but I certainly can say without hesitation that he held no one accountable, nor did Eric Holder, which is what you would expect from leadership.
00:18:04
Speaker
I mean, I served in a leadership position for many years, and I always felt I have to hold myself accountable and my people accountable. But when no one's held accountable, then then kind a message is kind of sent out there that you can do whatever you'd like.
00:18:17
Speaker
ah That's a terrible message to send. Yes. that's That's a terrible message to send. um So Chuck Grassley seems like for a politician, he's a pretty honorable guy. Is that your take on him as well?
00:18:30
Speaker
Well, you know, I got to know his staff very well because you don't deal with the actual politicians. You know what I mean? Like I've met them. I've had one or two conversations. um I dealt with Chuck Grassley staff extensively. In fact, they still speak to them to this day and they're all God. They've left, you know, government service. They all doing one is ah um a um represent an elected representative on the state level in West Virginia.
00:18:50
Speaker
and Another gentleman runs a whistleblower like advocate firm. And um what they described him is yeah apparently like he's not one of the politicians who went out and socialized and had sit down dinners with sponsors and donors.
00:19:02
Speaker
Apparently he's a guy who would come in, did his business and went home to his wife in Iowa. um gentleman, you know, ah older guy. i mean, God bless him. I think he's in his 90s and he's still doing what he's doing. um Don't know if I'll be working past 70 if I can avoid it. But but apparently he's an honorable man and um and is dedicated to the cause of protecting government whistleblowers.
Challenges Faced by Whistleblowers
00:19:23
Speaker
I wish the government would actually take people who step forward for the right reasons and protecting them a lot more seriously than they do. Because the reality is most people who did right, they to run out of government and their lives are ruined and they're almost bankrupted. Look, we were almost bankrupted and I spent four years fighting to clear my name.
00:19:41
Speaker
um But I got off very, very easy when you look at how some other whistleblowers are treated. um And again, I think it's partially because i had some people who actually had my back and gave me that space to fight for my reputation.
00:19:53
Speaker
But many other times people will just crush you because they're worried about how it will affect them. And that's not leadership. If you're not protecting someone who's telling the truth because you're worried about how it might reflect on you, um then shame on you. You're no leader.
00:20:05
Speaker
So, Peter, I'm sure you have some strong opinions about what needs to happen to clean up the um justice system in the United States.
The Importance of Self-Education
00:20:17
Speaker
And I'm sure you've got some strong opinions about what ah the average person in the public needs to do to educate themselves. And I'd love to hear those. Well, I think the first thing that folks need to do is stop watching the news because the news will pull you in any one direction or another.
00:20:34
Speaker
The reality is I work with some very, very honorable people in government. and um And I've worked with some people who were, you know, about themselves. Like they wouldn't have blown the whistle because they would have been worried about how it might affect their next career move.
00:20:48
Speaker
And I've seen people who make their every decision every single day. Looking at exactly that, where they won't hold a bad employee accountable because they're afraid if that employee files a grievance on them, it might stick to them and affect their reputation.
00:21:00
Speaker
But I would say that a good 70 to 80 percent of the people who I went to work with came in and really gave, you know, ah a good day's effort. um Some of them were superstars. And then there are some who weren't so great. The problem is the civil service laws protect those people. And it's incredibly difficult to get rid of the bad employees.
00:21:18
Speaker
But I mean, even when you look at the current political system now, um ah today, Donald Trump, for example, you mentioned President Trump earlier, what his administration can do. He's pets portrayed as almost like this demonic person in certain media channels down here.
00:21:34
Speaker
I met President Trump but during his first term because I was in charge of ATF's Miami office when the Parkland shooting happened. yeah And he came down and I met with, it was actually, he was president at the time. i met with him, ah Senator Rubio, who was a senator at the time.
00:21:48
Speaker
up Pam Bondi was ah in Florida. I don't believe she was still the attorney general. And Governor Scott was still the governor. yeah And, you know, While this whole shooting was going on, they came down, and I believe it was two or three days later, there were other politicians who came down and they just were spewing, you know, talking points. None of them asked a single question. It was all about, you know, their ban the gun. you arm yeah but And then they hey they'll say, we need to arm all the teachers. I don't agree with either of those philosophies.
00:22:17
Speaker
But what I really respected was that Donald Trump came into the room with myself, the FBI special agent in charge, and the sheriff from Broward County at the time. And he asked a ton of questions. He didn't spew out a single talking point. He just asked really tough questions.
00:22:31
Speaker
Some of them, like, candidly, didn't have the answer for it cause some of them involved, like, you know how do you fix the mental health problems in the United States? How do you get the mental health... ah system to communicate with you know the the criminal history system. So, i mean, these are things that, you know when I say above my pay grade, I truly mean that. It's things that would require like congressional involvement and the Senate to approve.
00:22:49
Speaker
But he asked those questions. And then like after he came out of the room with us, he went into a much larger room with people who weren't supervisors. They were like, you know, line level police officers, firefighters, EMTs.
00:23:01
Speaker
And he asked some of them the same questions. And I was like, you know something, here's a man who was compassionate. He came there looking to find solutions and asked whoever he thought might have some contribution to do that, where all the other politicians just came down and acted like politicians.
00:23:14
Speaker
And then I saw him interact with some of the families and he was incredibly compassionate to the families of these 16 dead teenagers and a dead coach. um So and then when you see how they portray them on television, it's deceiving.
00:23:26
Speaker
And I think that when when you watch the news, I think they deceive a lot. and i And I truly mean both sides. They deceive a lot. where I would love to see a lot more truth being told. And I would like to see the government, I'd like to see leaders actually lead.
00:23:40
Speaker
Because when you're not holding people accountable because you're afraid it might affect your next career move or stick to you, then then the government kind of goes a little bit out of control.
00:23:52
Speaker
Peter, I am a Trump super fan. I love President Trump. um He endorsed one of my books that I wrote. um I'll show it to you.
00:24:03
Speaker
I have written two books with a um ah talk show host named Wayne Allen Root. This one is called The Great Patriot Bicot Book. It's a list of 123 patriotic American companies that you should give your money to that are not woke.
00:24:19
Speaker
And over here in this black starburst is endorsed by President Donald J. Trump on True Social on ah May the 7th, 2023. So Wayne is a personal friend of the president's.
00:24:32
Speaker
He handed him a copy of the book, and the president put it on true social. So God bless president Trump, as far as I'm concerned. Uh, uh, more to More to the point, I've been following his career since the 80s.
00:24:46
Speaker
He's a real guy. He's a real guy. He's a guy with an ego. So am I. So are you. So is anybody with any modicum of ambition. But he knows when to put his ego aside to stand up for what's right.
00:24:59
Speaker
And ah what you described about how he treated people is what countless people that I know who know him personally, including Wayne, have Say he's like. So I'm not at all surprised by what you said.
00:25:11
Speaker
And here's the truth. The traditional legacy media is dying and it's on its last legs. Right now, I don't watch any of the traditional legacy media. I sometimes watch certain shows on Fox. I like Greg Gutfeld.
00:25:25
Speaker
I like... i like I like The Five. I like Hannity. But that's about it. Other than that, I don't watch any legacy media whatsoever. i listen to Joe Rogan. I listen to Theo Vaughn.
00:25:38
Speaker
I go listen to Ben Shapiro from time to time. Tucker Carlson. That's where I get my news from. And I don't just listen to whatever they say and accept it verbatim.
00:25:50
Speaker
I think about it. I debate it in my own mind and I make up my own mind. And that's what I think you're saying is citizens need to stop listening to legacy media.
00:26:02
Speaker
They need to start listening to independent voices, but they shouldn't just uncritically accept whatever they hear. They should think about it and make up their own mind. It's good for you to think, isn't it?
00:26:14
Speaker
if I couldn't have said it better myself because what you're saying is exactly what I feel to my core. Like we need to be true to ourselves, right? and But to be true to ourselves, we need to understand what's happening around us. You know what i mean?
00:26:24
Speaker
And if you're just going watch something and just take it at face value and say, okay, like I've seen things on the news that a fly in the face of what you're seeing in in your neighborhood, like or in your grocery store.
00:26:35
Speaker
And the fact that so many people will just accept that to me is frightening because we've become sheep. So, yes, we should be watching. I watch i watch various different news channels, right, ah both sides.
00:26:47
Speaker
I try to avoid the news because it's frustrating to me, candidly. I'd rather watch podcasts and read on, you know, stuff. But even when I believe something that someone is saying, I still will go out of my way to verify that or to see if if it's accurate.
00:27:01
Speaker
And i I think the problem is that we have so many people that are just either too lazy or just they just don't care that they're not doing that. And that's why we have such a divided country and candidly such a divided continent. When you look at what's happening right now between the US and Canada, you know, I think if people would just stop and listen and try to understand better than just listening and, you know, and taking that at face value, that we would all be better off. And I think all of our mental health would be a lot better, frankly.
00:27:28
Speaker
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Well, let's ah digress a little bit and talk about Canada-US relations in the last little while.
US-Canada Trade Deficit Discussion
00:27:35
Speaker
So um I'm somebody who, i like I said, I'm a fan of President Trump's.
00:27:40
Speaker
And I don't disagree with what he's doing. His overall macro policy of raising tariffs to help lower the American trade deficit to zero is a smart policy, and he should do it.
00:27:52
Speaker
He also believes that ah the US has... ah put up with countries imposing their own high tariffs on US goods. So that's hurt American businesses over a period of decades.
00:28:05
Speaker
I believe the annual trade deficit, globally speaking, is approaching a trillion dollars or so, at least in the seven, $800 billion dollars a year range. So Trump wants that to go down to zero.
00:28:16
Speaker
He wants to use tariffs to raise revenue so he can lower taxes on people. All those make sense. If you look at Canada, The deficit, the trade deficit between Canada and the U.S., though, is...
00:28:31
Speaker
comparatively speaking, minor. I think it's in the neighborhood of $35, $40 billion. dollars And if you take energy out of that equation, which is basically um oil and gas, because we ship a lot of oil and gas to you guys, then we actually have a trade deficit with you.
00:28:47
Speaker
There's about a $30, $40 billion dollars deficit the other way in goods. So America sells more goods to Canada than it buys from Canada. So those are some things that I think a lot of Americans don't understand.
00:28:58
Speaker
um And from President Trump's point of view, the other thing he says is that the United States is funding Canada's defense and Canada needs to increase its defense spending from under 1% of GDP to 2% of GDP, which it has agreed to do as a NATO member, but has never followed through on.
00:29:16
Speaker
So I understand what the president is saying. I understand what why he wants to do it. But I have to tell you, I'm not sure he or his staff understand how all that's being perceived by average people. Never mind what the media is telling them.
00:29:30
Speaker
There's a lot of people that work in trade-driven industries here in Canada. They're scared. shitless. These tariffs could cause their jobs to disappear.
00:29:42
Speaker
That's what a lot of people are a little bit frightened of. And the other thing that as a Canadian, I'll tell you, and look, i'm I don't have a hard opinion on on this one way or another. I think I understand what he's doing, as I said, and I understand why why our people feel the way they do.
00:29:56
Speaker
But Many Canadians feel like, hey, listen, when the chips have been down, America's always been able to count on Canada. After 9-11, lot of Americans were stranded and our Maritimers took them into their own homes and fed them like family until... you know, things opened up again and they could go home.
00:30:17
Speaker
Canadian soldiers were among the first to go to Afghanistan to fight alongside American soldiers after 9-11. And they're just going, we've been your best and most faithful neighbor. How could you do this to us?
00:30:30
Speaker
Like, that's kind of how it's coming across. I get it. Justin Trudeau is an idiot. He's gone now. Mark Carney is not an idiot, but he's still a Marxist. And hopefully he's going to call an election and lose it.
00:30:43
Speaker
And he'll be gone now and there'll be a conservative in charge. But I think it's very important for Americans to understand why Canadians feel the way they feel. And it's also very important for President Trump to be speaking to people, hopefully with Carney gone and a conservative in place, that'll help him come to a um an ah a A deal that makes everybody feel good.
00:31:07
Speaker
America is right to complain that Canada's borders are far too lax and far too open. And I'm sure as someone in law enforcement, you have something to say about that because you've experienced some of that. But Canada also you know needs to step up its ah military spending.
00:31:23
Speaker
My own belief is we shouldn't just raise it to 2% of GDP. We should raise it to 5% of GDP. We need to have troops and assets in the Arctic to prevent the Russians and the Chinese from encroaching on us.
00:31:36
Speaker
I think that's super, super important. And we'll feel better if we have a more muscular military than we currently do. But it would be it would be remiss of me as a Canadian as an and as an intelligent observer of the scene not to say this to folks like yourself and to President Trump that, guys,
00:31:53
Speaker
You know, there's there's a way to do this with someone who has been a true friend and a true ally to the United States, not just for a little while, but for decades, for decades.
00:32:06
Speaker
Well, if I can chime in, I'll tell you this. but i lived i lived in Canada for two years. um I traveled, like I said, from Manitoba to, like I was screeched in in Newfoundland.
00:32:17
Speaker
also I enjoyed the culture, but every single place that I had gone in Canada, I would have a chance to speak with police officers or soldiers from up there because we did some training and whatnot. And it would sometimes it'd be over beers where people were just really, you know, they just let their true sentiments out.
00:32:31
Speaker
And they was never a sense of anything but love for one another. And I mean that, I mean, for country, like the Canadian respect, what I was amazed about is how many Canadian youth know more about American history than American youth.
00:32:43
Speaker
Right. Right. So I get it. Canada respects the United States. And I truly believe that the feeling is absolutely mutual. So I was really moved by the people up there. I have deep, deep, deep respect for Canada. I love the Canadian flag. And I loved how when I traveled throughout Canada, I would see that flag flying more often than I see the U.S. flag flying here in the United States.
00:33:01
Speaker
So I respect the patriotism of Canada. um Look, Donald Trump is a New Yorker, and he's like an in-your-face New Yorker, and I think that's how he operates, and I'm sure some of this is what he's saying to try to get a good deal. But I did hear yesterday that, ah was Premier Ford from Ontario, whose brother was the mayor of Toronto when I was assigned there.
00:33:21
Speaker
You know, I guess he's going to be meeting with the Commerce Secretary, and they had good conversations. Howard Ludnick, yeah. i think that I think that this is all part of Donald Trump's strategy. Look, i'm I'm a New Yorker, as you can tell, and I've traveled throughout the United States. like I was assigned in different places.
00:33:36
Speaker
And the only place where they really understood me was Miami because so many New Yorkers now live in South Florida. Yeah. ah um So yeah a lot of places where I worked, people didn't like New Yorkers because we're were direct and sometimes perhaps impolite, um even though our intentions are pure. And I think that's what people will find out with Donald Trump is, look, he's doing what he does. You know, he's rattling cages to try to get a good deal. But I don't think he disrespects the Canadian people at all.
00:34:02
Speaker
um No, I don't think so either. I agree with his delivery at times, not necessarily, but I'm that i'm not as successful or as smart as him in many other ways either. if i I don't think that he wants to divide Americans and Canadians.
00:34:15
Speaker
You guys are, are we we're the same. I mean, in so many different ways. When I was living up there, In many ways, I felt like I was just living here. I mean, the people, the values are the same. People have the same desires for their families and, you know, for for their survival. So I just think that we're we're so similar that hopefully this blows over quickly. But but I'll tell you this, too.
00:34:37
Speaker
People in the United States are scared because he's he's very bold in what he does. And again, I believe he has a strategy. But when you hear about, like, for example, our 401ks took a big hit over the past few days, um you know, you all these government employees being fired. I mean, that's going to do things to the economy as well, because you have now you're going to have a lot of people who are going to be without jobs and those people have kids and wives.
00:34:59
Speaker
So, I mean, people in the United States are also worried. And we just... I just hope that his strategy is one that, and I'm sure he's thought it through, that will be successful for both of our countries and for all the people that live in both countries.
00:35:13
Speaker
I think in the long run it will be. i would like to see. yeah I hope so. I would like to see the European nations doing more with NATO, to be honest with you, know because it's their backyard. And it seems like that, you know, they're expecting the United States. And now if if Canada increases their thing to 5 percent, well, it'd be nice to see some of those countries because they're much closer to Russia and to the threat um doing their part.
00:35:37
Speaker
Well, I'll tell you i'll tell you this. I agree with you on Europe. Europe needs to step up its game. Outside of Poland and I think the UK, nobody else is at 2%. So they're going to have to step up their game.
00:35:48
Speaker
Trump's going to push for it, and they're going to come forward and do it because he he's tough that way. um And I agree with you that Donald Trump is a ah is an in-your-face guy, and I agree with you that this is part of his negotiating strategy.
00:36:03
Speaker
I've seen that coming all along. All I'm saying to you is that um there's a couple things that i'd like to see change in this 51st state. Yeah, no. That's got to... He's got to just cut that crap out. Like, I know i know he's trolling Trudeau, and now he's trolling Carney. Carney hates him as much as Trudeau hated him. So I get all that.
00:36:24
Speaker
I'm just telling you, the average Canadian is deeply insulted by that. Deeply, deeply, deeply insulted by that. He's got to cut it out. That's not... you want to You want to nail the government, guys?
00:36:37
Speaker
I'm all for it. I'm all for having these guys be hammered, belittled, humiliated, especially if they're with the Liberal Party, the so-called Liberal Party. There's nothing liberal about them. They're fascists, in my opinion.
00:36:49
Speaker
They should re be renamed the new fascist party of Canada. They cannot use the honored name Liberal. Liberal is someone who's a freedom lover. These guys are our freedom haters. They're absolute fascists.
00:36:59
Speaker
But the average Canadian person needs something different because this is this is this is offensive and upsetting to them. and i'm I'm just telling you that. It's not a good I agree. I agree. Look, the Canadians deserve to be proud. And I'll tell you, I know each province has its sense of pride.
00:37:13
Speaker
And sometimes that pride conflicts with other provinces. I lived it. um I enjoyed it. It's the same thing in the United States. New York, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut. um but yeah i i would like to see this all behind us and for us to move on but yeah i agree that it's not appropriate to insult people and especially a nation of people who were like said have the same values that we have and yeah look we have our own problem with some of our parties down here too who are pretty much on the on the threshold being communists so i mean yeah we we should clean up our own house before we start pointing fingers at at other countries as especially countries who have been very, very good to us throughout, you know, the decades, to you know, for over a hundred years, you know? Yeah.
00:37:53
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Um, I, um, Yeah, you've given me an idea. I think I might create a little video. I'm going to call my video producer and say, look, we're going to create a little video with a voiceover and i'm going to send this.
00:38:07
Speaker
I'm going to put it out there and and i'm I'm even willing to put money um behind boosting it so it it gets out there. And I want to create a little viral video to say, hey, um We love you, America.
00:38:18
Speaker
These are the things we agree with you on, which is a lot. This is the one thing we don't agree with you on. So cut it out, sir. Please. and and And that's that ah as as far as I'm concerned. But... so um Great to hear your your thoughts on all this.
00:38:36
Speaker
So I wonder if we can move on to another topic. Do you know any of the key ah people in law enforcement in the current Trump administration? I'm talking Attorney General Bondi, ah FBI Director Cash Patel, ah Deputy Director Dan Bongino. Do you know these people? What do you know about them? What are your thoughts on them?
00:39:00
Speaker
I met um the the director, well, that Attorney General Bondi, like I said, after the Parkland shooting, but I had very, very limited interaction with her. I apologize for that noise. way um So, but I do know the current acting head of the DEA right now, Derek Waltz, good guy. um his His brother was killed in action in Afghanistan, was an Air Force Special Forces soldier.
00:39:20
Speaker
Derek is about as patriotic and as straight shooting as they come. He's a dear friend. um and I know he was an agent in New York when I was an agent at New York. And If you mention Derek's name in the New York Field Division of DEA, people will light up. i mean, he was so well-loved and respected.
00:39:34
Speaker
Another gentleman, Anthony Salisbury, who's in the administration as ah ah a senior advisor in the Department of Homeland Security, also very, very well-respected guy. ah Dan Bongino, I only know through his show, very opinionated. um I agree with much of what he says. I disagree with some, but we'll see how he does. And as for Kash Patel, I know people who know him.
00:39:54
Speaker
They say he's a very decent man, um but I don't know enough about him to give an opinion. But the people who tell me he's a decent man are people who I trust. So how how they perform, I guess, is what you know what we should judge them about. Because, again, just like we talked about before, the news media, they all have opinions and opinions are so jaded and often so wrong that I just prefer to judge them based on how they conduct their business.
00:40:17
Speaker
What, you know, after raising their hand to that constitution that we spoke of earlier. Yeah, 100%. So this friend of yours with the DEA, tell me more about him. He was a good agent. He was in New York. He a supervisor in new York. He commanded the New York Drug Enforcement Task Force for a while.
00:40:35
Speaker
Like I said, beloved up there. Then he went on to to run DEA Special Operations Division, which is kind of like part of their intelligence um structure within the Drug Enforcement Administration, had a global a ah you know global footprint.
00:40:47
Speaker
um And look, he retired from DEA some time ago and since then was a big advocate um to help families who were struggling with loss due to fentanyl. So, I mean, the whole concept of keeping people safe from illicit substances is something that's been near and dear to his heart for decades. Again, after his government service, he continued that.
00:41:07
Speaker
And I was really happy to hear that he got tapped to come back and be part of the administration because, again, I know his intentions are pure. And I know him well. The others I know, like I know Anthony Salisbury a little bit, but enough to know that he's a good guy.
00:41:19
Speaker
The others I only know of their reputation from others. And like Pam Bondi got a good feel for her on that first interaction, but I only met her that one time. So, you know, we'll see what she does. I know her reputation in Florida ah was quite good when I lived in Florida.
00:41:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I've heard really good things about her as well. Well, I really hope that this whole ah Jeffrey Epstein um situation is handled with some transparency because so far it looks like people are stonewalling this inside the agency.
00:41:51
Speaker
Yeah. No, it's appalling to me because I mean, yeah look, the most important resource we have as as as human beings, right? I mean, I don't care what country you live in, um but especially in a civilized part of the world is our future, our children, right?
00:42:08
Speaker
And here are people who were misusing, abusing, sexually abusing children. so If we're not gonna hold them accountable, or if there's some people that we think are worth protecting who did that to children,
00:42:21
Speaker
then i will question ah the integrity of the system once again, because um there's no excuse to protect people who who abused, sexually abused and stained for the rest of their lives.
00:42:31
Speaker
Children, teenagers, i don't care what age they were. They're not adults, hands off. And people who who did inappropriate things need to be held accountable. I mean, no one's been arrested.
00:42:42
Speaker
You know what and i mean? ah Other than Epstein himself and Ghislaine Maxwell, no one else has been arrested. And that's to me beyond the polling. It is. It absolutely is. ah And there's um there's also a lot um of suspicion around the release of the JFK, RFK, and MLK files.
00:43:05
Speaker
I don't know if there's any there there to be had, but I sure would like to see what those internal documents look like. Well, I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, that's a quarter of a century or more old.
00:43:19
Speaker
So, I mean, how long do you need to keep them secret? And I'll go one step further. I would like to see the the report on the Saudi connection to the 9-11 attacks released. You know, I mean, people are still dying from the world. I lost my right lung as being a first responder to September 11th. I was there when the second plane hit. um I've lost many, many. I lost six friends on that day.
00:43:41
Speaker
I've lost more than three times that number to 9-11 related disease since. um You know, I mean, so the fact that that's still being kept from the American public to me is is quite appalling. I mean, there are some things that I understand need to be kept secret.
00:43:55
Speaker
And then there are some things that you wonder why. Why? And the things you mentioned are why. And if what the Saudi connection to 9-11. Why? If there's an ugly secret there that might embarrass some people, perhaps they deserve to be embarrassed.
00:44:08
Speaker
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Peter's Book on Fast and Furious
00:44:10
Speaker
So, Peter, you're out of government service now and you've got a book out. Why don't we talk a bit about that? Sure, sure. I wrote a book called The Deadly Path, and the subtitle is How Operation Fast and Furious and Bad Lawyers Armed Mexican Cartels.
00:44:24
Speaker
And it talks about the three years... that I spent in Phoenix leading up to Operation Fast and Furious. And I talk about some cases that we tried to get people prosecuted that were pretty heinous cases. I mean, you'll see the dead bodies started to amass in Phoenix long before Operation Fast and Furious even started.
00:44:41
Speaker
And we couldn't get the prosecutors to cooperate with us at all. And then, like i said, our mission had changed and then Operation Fast and Furious itself started. And then I blew the whistle on that situation.
00:44:51
Speaker
And then I talk about what happened afterwards. My wife and I were nearly bankrupted. I spent four years fighting to clear my name and eventually did. And then got back to work and later promoted to some of the highest levels in ATF. Again, my result was a lot different than many other whistleblowers in government.
00:45:06
Speaker
The fact that I was able to promote to the senior, senior levels of ATF is unusual. um So I talk about all the different factors, the the early prosecutors that were involved. I talk about the people who was in ATF that had problems with me telling the truth.
00:45:19
Speaker
But I also give credit to the people who did the right thing because there were many. And and look, it's funny. I wrote the book to tell a story because – like we spoke of earlier, the media told either the Republican version of events or the Democrat version of events. And the truth is nowhere near what was reported on, you know because they wanted to point fingers at different politicians.
00:45:39
Speaker
So it was really preventive, you know, measure so that it doesn't happen again. And it was also to tell other people that were with ATF during that time, because we never told what happened even internally when we proposed.
00:45:50
Speaker
doing some training. Let's talk about Fast and Furious internally. So we it would never happen again. We were were always told we don't we don't talk about Fast and Furious. So I wanted to set the record straight. It's an apolitical book. It just tells the facts of what I saw.
00:46:03
Speaker
No speculation or anything like that. And, um you know, we'll see what happens. But just the truth had to be told. Amen. Are you going on a book tour? Are you going on a speaking tour? What what what else are you doing with this?
00:46:16
Speaker
I hadn't gone on much of a tour, frankly, because I lost a lot of money blowing the whistle on fast and furious. So I need a day job, so to speak. So I have gone and speaking. ah I've done speaking engagements at law enforcement academies.
00:46:30
Speaker
I've done some speaking engagements at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center here in the United States. um And again, it's to get the message out so that folks don't make this mistaken. But it's not really to me about book sales. It's about telling the story. The the good news is there is has been some Hollywood interest. I don't want to jinx anything.
00:46:46
Speaker
So, I mean, that would be nice because that would really get the story out there because unfortunately today, not a lot of people read books. So it's, you know, it's, it's the speaking about what happened there and, you know, doing things like this podcast that helped get the message out, frankly.
00:47:00
Speaker
Peter, you know, everyone says that and there are people as a whole are reading fewer books. But if you go look at the actual numbers, book sales are holding pretty steady.
00:47:11
Speaker
They haven't plummeted. um Part of the reason is more and more people are buying books as audio books. So audio book sales are really taking off in a big way and that's keeping them pretty buoyant.
00:47:25
Speaker
And outside of the United States and Canada, book sales in India and in the Far East are booming. Really? Booming. Yeah.
00:47:35
Speaker
Yeah. So you'd be shocked. But if you go and you do your research, you'll see that the actual number of books being sold a year has held pretty steady. It's even increasing a little bit, like 1%, 2% a year.
00:47:47
Speaker
So there hasn't been a collapse in readership the way people think there has been. Well, I'd like to see more books being read in the United States and Canada in in our part of the world. um You know, I think that's one thing that where I would argue that we could be doing, that i say not saying Canada, the United States could be doing a lot better with education and people valuing reading things.
00:48:06
Speaker
um And I know that's something that they're working on now. But like i said, when I was up in Canada, I was amazed at how many young Canadian neighbors I had or how many soldiers or cops I dealt with that could tell me a lot more about American history than than the average American that I knew. cause i love I was always a big history guy. i loved history.
00:48:22
Speaker
So I'd sit there and listen to these folks and i'm like, wow, it's nice that they know stuff that my neighbors don't know. you know That's amazing. So what what is your what is your day job these days? What are you up to?
00:48:33
Speaker
I work for Amazon. I'm not supposed to talk about what I do there because they're very sensitive. But I work in their ah corporate security realm. And um you know when I'm not doing that, I try to do some public speaking. I speak occasionally at the 9-11 Memorial and Museum in Manhattan about what I experienced on September 11th and the lung cancer.
00:48:53
Speaker
Because I want people to know, um Look, I went through this thing that a lot of law enforcement and military folks were through where I had i had some things I was carrying with me from that day that I let weigh on me for a long time.
00:49:05
Speaker
And I always believed, hey, I was a law enforcement guy. yeah Like, I'm not the person that asked for help. People come to me for help. So I had this stupid belief that it would have been cowardly to talk about it with a professional.
00:49:17
Speaker
And it wasn't until many, many years later when I finally did that I felt like the my world had re- like I was just living inside my head for far too long. um You know, and lost a lot of time with family, a lot of time with kids as a result of just pondering things. And, you know, so now I want people to realize that when you ask for help,
00:49:35
Speaker
um and and you get it, then you you can get your life back. So I try to advocate for that. And again, I talk about Fast and Furious and ethics in law enforcement because people need to realize you can't fix what you're not willing to talk about. And when you bury scandals and when you when you don't like talk and speak truth to power sometimes, then um then things just don't get fixed.
00:49:56
Speaker
Amen. Amen. Beautifully said. So, um Peter, we end every episode by asking you, our guest expert, for your top three expert action steps.
00:50:10
Speaker
These are your three best pieces of advice to help my listener elevate their life or business success.
Peter's Top Advice
00:50:19
Speaker
In bullet point form, what do you say?
00:50:22
Speaker
Three things, I guess. The only thing that you bring to the grave with you is your reputation. So always strive to protect your reputation. And but when I say strive to protect your reputation is one, always try to do the right thing, right? And own your mistakes.
00:50:36
Speaker
And if someone tries to assail your reputation and they're wrong, defend yourself, number one. Number two, we'll go back to what I just said. We all go through our peaks and our valleys. And if you find yourself in a dark place, um it's not wrong to ask for help.
00:50:52
Speaker
So, I mean, you know, and it could it doesn't have to be PTSD or something like that. I mean, even if you need help in something, business development or something, there's people out there who would love to help you. Ask for help. And then along those same lines, bullet point number three would be take care of yourself first and But do that knowing that if you do that appropriately, then you can take care of your family and you can take care of the people who work with you or for you.
00:51:17
Speaker
So it's really about just always trying to do the right thing. You know, you never go wrong by doing the right thing. Amen. You never go wrong by doing the right thing. So, listener, Peter Forselli is the real deal.
00:51:30
Speaker
His book, The Deadly Path, is a book you should read. Don't just buy a copy for yourself. Buy five copies, ten copies, and hand them out as gifts to the people that you love. And...
00:51:41
Speaker
The lessons that he's given us out of sharing his powerful story of being someone who is willing to stand up for what's right and for the truth, being a whistleblower against the arrayed forces of government and and doing the right thing and making sure that the wrong thing would be harder for people to do going forward is inspiring.
00:52:03
Speaker
And if you know someone who needs to be inspired, share this episode with them. Peter, thanks for coming on the show. Real honor to have you here, my friend. Honor to be here. Thanks for having me.
00:52:14
Speaker
Yeah, you bet. And that wraps up another exciting episode of the podcast, The Thought Leader Revolution. To find out more about today's guest, the one and only Peter Forcelli, go to the show notes at thethoughtleaderrevolution.com or wherever you happen to listen to this episode, via iTunes, Google Play, Audible, Spotify, or what have you.
00:52:33
Speaker
Until next time, goodbye.
00:52:38
Speaker
This episode has been brought to you by ecircleacademy.com, the proven system to add six to seven figures a year to your thought leader practice.