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How To Be A Great Second Shooter
116 Plays2 years ago
Want to learn how to second shoot weddings? We will teach you not only how to get more second shooting gigs, but also how to be the BEST second shooter out there! Even if you are an experienced photographer, picking up second shooting jobs can go a long way in helping you make more money during slow season, make new connections, add to your portfolio, and overall pick up some stress-free work! This episode applies to all photographers -- beginner and experienced! If you have 30 minutes to listen this morning, we truly believe that it will be worth your time.
As always, please subscribe and leave a 5-star review, and we would love to hear your thoughts!
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Transcript
Introduction to The Art of Intention Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the Art of Intention podcast with Beth and Ayla. Two best friends turn creative entrepreneurs. This is a place for us to discuss everything business, friendships, and faith and occasionally more. We're so excited for today's episode. We think you're going to love it. Stay tuned.
00:00:19
Speaker
Woo hoo! It is another wonderful Monday. We are so stoked to be here and to be kicking off the week with you. So let's dive right in. Today's episode is short, sweet, and simple. It's chock full of really great advice that we're just, yeah, we're stoked to be bringing to you. Absolutely.
00:00:36
Speaker
This one is for all the photographers out there. If you saw the title, you know we are going to be talking about second shooting, but hold your horses. Even if you're an experienced photographer, this will still pertain to you. We have some information for you that you might not know about. Yeah, Beth actually put her like heart and soul into this one as she's worked with second shooters before and just has a lot of wisdom about it. So whether you've ever second shot, you're thinking about it, or if you're honestly a professional established photographer, like
00:01:05
Speaker
all in between. You're not going to want to miss
Ayla's Photo Editing Journey and Course Highlights
00:01:08
Speaker
this. But before we start, let's dive into our community news real quick and we'll be right back. All right, so Ayla here. Hello. For those who don't know, I work as a full-time private photo editor for wedding photographers. And you've heard me talk a lot about it on this course. I got that education, or on this podcast, I got that photo education off of a course. And the course that I took for photo editing just got a major update.
00:01:32
Speaker
So like I said, a little bit of history in 2020 into 2021, I took the photo editors guide by Katie Rivera. That's how I've reached success in my editing business. And I literally could not have done it without this course. I actually just closed my books a few days ago due to a full editing queue. And likely a solid client list for the rest of the year, which was one of my goals for this year. So and like I said, I owe it all to this course that I took back in 2020.
00:01:59
Speaker
This course just dropped the photo editor's guide 2.0. Katie, the creator, is an amazing person. I've actually gotten to talk with her somewhat one-on-one. She helped me audit my website at the beginning of the year and helped me rebrand like a fully brand new website, like actually amazing, genuine person I really support.
00:02:18
Speaker
pretty much everything she does. She's the creator and she just made major updates to the material. So if you're a fellow photo editor who took the previous version of the course, I highly, highly recommend looking into the updated course. So many questions that editors have had over the years are addressed in this new course. Like she took feedback that she's been getting for years and built
00:02:40
Speaker
whole brand new course based off of like people who had already taken her first one with completely new lessons like how to edit for clients who don't want to edit anchor images, new client workflow using Dipsado and now Honeybook.
Understanding Second Shooting in Photography
00:02:54
Speaker
I know there's people
00:02:55
Speaker
who've taken her course who listen to this podcast and i'll just say originally she only taught with using dubs auto but now she's added honey book to the ways that you can set up client workflow which we talked about last week and just more information like the newest ways tips and tricks to edit profitably
00:03:11
Speaker
Come slow season, I'm telling you guys right now this will be like the main thing I'm diving into. I straight up am so excited to dive into 2.0 of this course as business owning is all about furthering your education and continuing to learn as much as you can. I legit cannot wait to dive into this new
00:03:28
Speaker
version of the photo editors guide of course like I said come slow season because right now absolutely not but in a few months that's where you're gonna find me and I should mention if you're listening and you've taken Katie's course you automatically have access to the course you do not have to pay when you pay for the photo editors guide you get lifetime access to the course and all of its updates and
00:03:48
Speaker
Um, which is like so nice of her, right? I got an email that was like, you've been granted access to 2.0 of the course. And I looked at the overview and there's so much brand new stuff on there. So guys, literally so much new and improved information for no additional cost if you have already paid for the course. So if you paid for the course,
00:04:06
Speaker
Do not sleep on this update, especially if you're trying to find clients right now in busy season. If your editing queue is not full, definitely this is a great time to dive in and start looking at what she's got for you. If you have not taken her course yet, but you're considering photo editing as possibly a hustle or career or your photographer looking into kind of rounding out your editing workflow specifically, I could not recommend this course enough. And now is a better time than ever to take a peek at it because it's fully redone and remastered.
00:04:36
Speaker
So, if you're not in the photography world, you may be like, what even is a
Benefits and Qualities of Second Shooters
00:04:41
Speaker
second shooter? Or if you're new to photography, maybe you don't really know about it yet, you've heard it, but you're not sure. A second shooter, also sometimes called a second photographer, is a photographer who was hired by another main photographer to assist them while photographing a wedding. As some of you may know, I'm a photo editor for Destination Wedding Photographers, but I'm not a photographer, so a lot of this is actually pretty new information.
00:05:05
Speaker
for me. But it's also my secret dream to be a second shooter for Beth if we live next to each other. So I dream about it, but I've never actually gotten to do it. That would be amazing. That'd be the best dream team right there. Literally. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Anyways. So basically a second shooter will accompany the photographer all or most of the day, and they may branch off to do certain things as the primary photographer requests it. So like photograph details, photograph the groom and groom has been getting ready.
00:05:32
Speaker
during the ceremony they're going to capture people's emotions and reactions and just overall they're going to get different angles than the primary photographer. A second shooter is basically like an extension of the primary photographer or at the very least they're an assistant to the primary photographer. Yeah and in saying that that's not to be confused with an associate shooter. An associate shooter is a professional experienced photographer who goes in the primary photographer's place to a photo shoot and does the like the entire shoot for them.
00:06:00
Speaker
then sends the raws back to the main photographer who hired them. This can happen if a photographer is sick or something unexpected comes up and they need a dependable replacement. Exactly. So yeah, associate shooter, that's that, but we're talking about second shooter, second photographers.
00:06:16
Speaker
Okay, now let's talk real quick about who should be or who can be a second shooter. Because it's been commonly thought that only new photographers are second shooters and they do it just to gain experience. And while that certainly is a great way to gain experience, that's true, you can actually find very experienced seasoned photographers shooting secondary as well. And as we go through the benefits of being a second shooter, we'll explain why exactly that is. Ayla, why don't you kick us off with some benefits of second shooting in general?
00:06:44
Speaker
Yeah for sure there's so many benefits to it that we've talked about a little bit before but one of the first and of course the most obvious is one of the most obvious benefits of picking up second shooter photography gigs is of course the experience and we're not just talking about experience for beginners it can also be experience for professional photographers who are wanting to branch out in their style of photography or reach a new venue or simply add a different kind of wedding
00:07:10
Speaker
to their portfolio. It's a really great way to work side by side with some of your most admired photographers. Photographers who are looking for second shooters are looking for people who know their gear well, so the more experienced you are as a photographer in general, the better candidate that you may actually be.
00:07:25
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. That's so true. So the benefit of experience really applies to anyone. It's not just for beginners. Another benefit of second shooting that you'll see that applies to, again, both beginner and professional alike is the extra money without the long-term work. So doing a wedding yourself, of course, entails the weeks of communication with the clients, weeks of editing, as you know, Ayla, very well. Indeed.
00:07:50
Speaker
So photographing the wedding day is really only a small part of the process. And when you're the second shooter, you are paid to show up on the day of and your work for the job is limited mainly just to that day. And gosh, let me tell you, that is a weird feeling. Showing up to a wedding and like photographing it and not having to go home to edit. It's a very freeing feeling. Oh my gosh, yes, I bet. Yeah, it's so weird. Like just having nothing to do with it afterwards, you know, other than saving the photos to make sure they're safe.
00:08:17
Speaker
Anyways, so to my experienced photographers who have never tried second shooting or who like write it off thinking that they're too seasoned now to experience, this is a great way to make money and to fill in gaps during your slow season. So you don't need to feel like you have to pick up a part-time job in the winter or you don't have to feel like you just have to go without some money. Whenever your slow season is winter or another time, you can start doing second shooting jobs. Yeah, I never thought about that too. That might actually be nice. Like if you are a full-time photographer,
00:08:46
Speaker
Running your business and then I imagine it might be just yeah kind of freeing to like go shoot and be done like to just Experience that creativity go have a fun wedding day and then Wow epiphany. Yeah to me not a wedding photographer That still sounds so fun, but then I were chatting before like I do have some photography experience like just as a hobby so that like Resonates with me. I'm like, oh I could just go shoot but like not deal with the rest of it. Ooh
00:09:11
Speaker
Interesting. Exactly. It's amazing. And then you have, and this is where like a lot of beginners get drawn into it. You have those photos for your portfolio. And even if you're an experienced photographer, like you were saying before, it's a way to reach a new venue. It's a way to have different types of weddings in your portfolio. So there's that benefited as well that I think, I guess we kind of forgot to mention.
00:09:29
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, totally like stress free portfolio work, connecting with vendors. And not to say that you shouldn't also take it super seriously as a second shooter. And speaking of taking it seriously, Beth, let's go ahead and transition into talking about what a good second shooter does. And what does someone need to really do to be a good second shooter? OK, yes, let's chat about this. This is like the meat of the whole thing. So let's get into it.
00:09:57
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. So bear with us while we list out a few things. Um, and actually first off you said it, take it seriously. You're being paid to be an extension of your primary photographer. That's their reputation and their clients on the line care about it as if it was your wedding or your clients. Um, but that's just more of an overall note. There is a list of, um, Ayla and I think about six things that you should do to be a good second shooter. And like, seriously, these are honestly like the bare minimum or like, these are like the pillars, I guess, of being a good second shooter. Um,
00:10:27
Speaker
All right guys, you could say the rules that you should go by. Right before you jump into it, just wanted to check because I guess we didn't cover this, but you've been both a second shooter and you've hired second shooters, correct?
00:10:37
Speaker
Yes. Yes. Oh yeah. Good point. So yeah, I've been a second shooter many times. Um, and then I hire second shooters for, I mean, probably most of the weddings that I do. So experience on both sides. And I talk to lots of photographers who have experienced being second shooters who hire a second shooter. So it's something I'm very, very familiar with. And I have developed these six pillars or these six rules based on my experience and experience of other people that I talk to.
00:11:01
Speaker
Um, so yeah, that's where it's best. This is best six pillars to second shooting guys. Oh my gosh. Valuable information. Oh my gosh. I guess they are kind of my pillars, but to be fair, I think that anyone would agree with these. Right. I think, Oh my gosh. Okay. Let's just jump right in. Yeah.
00:11:21
Speaker
Um, number one, maybe it goes without saying, but know your gear and have some experience. This isn't a mentorship. It's not a classroom. It's a wedding day. And the primary shooter is expecting you to be competent with your gear and your ability to go shoot wherever they need you to shoot. Um, again, even if you're a beginner, that's fine. We'll talk more about communicating that in the future, but just know your gear. You have to, you have to know something like when showing up on the wedding day, like be there, be ready to show up. Like, exactly. Yeah.
00:11:48
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, to be honest and upfront about your experience and skill level. So I kind of like going off of the first one, you don't have to be super experienced. Like we said before, it's a great way to gain experience. But if you don't know flash, tell them if you only shoot automatic, tell them you have to be honest about your gear and about your experience from the beginning.
00:12:07
Speaker
So yeah, one, know your gear and have some experience, but number two, be honest and upfront about your experience and skill level. Okay. Number three, be eager and hardworking. Just don't be lazy. That's all that one is. Just don't be lazy. If the primary photographer is moving around and shooting, you should be to get excited about the day.
00:12:23
Speaker
you're there to work, be a hard worker. Number four, come prepared and on time. This includes paying attention to any information the primary photographer gave you, have the timeline saved on your phone, et cetera, you know, stuff like that. But also don't overwhelm the primary photographer asking for unnecessary info. This is a big one. If you're a experienced wedding photographer and you're used to doing weddings by yourself or you're used to being the primary,
00:12:47
Speaker
you can get the temptation to want to come in and be like, what's, what are the names? What is the exact timeline? What's all this information? You are not the primary photographer. Your job is to be there and assist. And if you're messaging or emailing or texting the primary asking for all this information, you're giving a bigger burden to them and you're not there for that. You're there to help.
00:13:06
Speaker
So all you really need is a place, a time, and a pay rate. This isn't your wedding. If they don't want to give you names yet, if they don't have a timeline for you until the day of, don't pester them. Don't add more to their plate by asking for information you don't need if they don't give it to you. Just remember you're there to help. So that's kind of, I know a little tangent on that one. No, that's so good. And I guess it would like apply to like, cause I know that primary photographers, they'll go like the location scout, they get there early on all these things. And unless they ask you to do that, that's not your job. It's like to show up and like be there. Cause I'm sure
00:13:36
Speaker
you get this Beth like you might be like hey come with me a day early and let's go like check it out if that's the relationship but but that would be established probably by the primary photographer usually it's just like hey show up i know where we're going you don't have to worry about it no i think that's like really invaluable advice actually
00:13:54
Speaker
Oh, good. Yeah. And it's also a respect thing too, respecting them as the primary. You don't need to know this information because you are not the lead. So don't act like it. Just trust them. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Give respect. Okay. Number five, I think is what I'm on, right? Five? Yes. And this to me is the most important one in my opinion. Do not advertise for yourself.
00:14:15
Speaker
You do not hand out your business cards, you do not share your social media handle, you do not share your business name. You are there to represent the primary photographer, which means you are there only to advertise for them, not yourself. If someone comes and asks for your information, yeah, if someone comes and asks for your information, you give them the information for the primary shooter. The fact that some second shooters try to advertise for themselves at other photographers' weddings is honestly horrific.
00:14:42
Speaker
I cannot stand that.
Guidelines for Second Shooters and Social Media Etiquette
00:14:44
Speaker
The primary photographer who worked to get that wedding deserves the future clients and deserves the connections. You will get future clients from the work that you put out there, from the photos you took at that wedding, when you're allowed to share them. Not from spreading your name at that wedding. That is not what you're there for. You cannot do that. That's a really good way to never get hired again as a second shooter. I would never consider that. I don't think that's super common knowledge because I know it's normal for the primary photographer to totally be making connections at their wedding to totally be like,
00:15:11
Speaker
here's my name, here's this, and if you know Aunt Mary is impressed by your, you know, behavior, you can totally be like, absolutely, when are your kids getting married? Like that is totally what the primary is doing. I imagine that would be so shocking for a second shooter to be doing the same, to be like, oh, by the way, don't hire her, hire me. Wow. No, I've never, I know nothing about this dynamic. So that's crazy.
00:15:33
Speaker
Well, right. It's not even that blatant. It's not like the people, it's, and this is where you have to remember, I'm speaking to someone who's being a second shooter, put yourself in their shoes. Imagine if you were the primary at a wedding, you really worked hard to get and someone was handing out their own information. Some of that you hired, your employee was trying to get future weddings. I have had a second shooter do this and it's not like it's super blatant or obvious. So I think the DJ was announcing like, oh, thank you to the photographer, um, best whites of photography. And then she stood up and waved.
00:16:03
Speaker
And I was like, you and I didn't even stand up and wave because I was just like, I've just kind of let these things pass over. I smile and I nod. Um, but she literally got up and stood up and waved and I'm like, that is, you are not, she was trying to identify herself as the one that people can come to and talk to. That was so horrifying to me. I was like, excuse me.
00:16:23
Speaker
Do a gesture over to you at least too. If you're going to make a show at least gesture and be like us, like the team. Wow. Oh my gosh. There's so much I could say about this, but I've also found out there was another second show I found out that gave her information to the bride and groom. She gave her social media information to the bride and groom.
00:16:46
Speaker
And I mean, I could go on to how many problems that could potentially cause and how disrespectful that is, but it did cause some problems. Just don't do that. That's not what you're there for. You're there to only represent. And if someone comes up to you, I know that you can make the excuse, well, they asked me for it. No, your job is to say, oh, I'm glad that you like how I'm working today. Here is the primary photographer. Her information is this, you know, here's her website. Yeah, I'm here working for him or her.
00:17:12
Speaker
One of your main jobs, aside from taking photos, is to represent the primary photographer. That's why your attitude matters. It's why your work ethic matters. It's why your style matters. It's why all of that matters because you are there to represent them. Anyways, moving on. That's the one that I get the most upset about. It's such a big deal.
00:17:31
Speaker
and number six last one do not share the photos right away on social media certainly not before the primary photographer does and do not tag the clients ever this should number one be laid out in your contract or at least verbally communicated to you by the primary photographer and what their like timeline is for posting the photos um but just to explain that a little bit there's a lot of reasons behind this that we could go into
00:17:53
Speaker
But basically this is up to the primary photographer. They're the ones who've been working one alone with the clients. It's their clients. It's not your job to tag them, but that's also a form of self advertising and trying to claim it as your own when you tag the clients. Um, if you're supposed to be an extension of the photographer, then you shouldn't be identifying yourself as your own business to their clients.
00:18:15
Speaker
Right. Even if it's just tagging in a post later. So that kind of goes with the last point that I was making, but it stands on its own because that's to do with social media and your usage of the photos. Yeah. Oh, sorry. I just remembered a random story. I just remembered a random story that I have. It's from an editor's perspective. So it's a little different, but, um, I don't know, this just popped in my brain. I once shared, cause I share, um,
00:18:42
Speaker
the photos of weddings that I edit with full permission from the photographer, we establish what that relationship looks like. Do I tag them? Do I not? Because not every photographer wants you to know that they outsource and that's completely fine. That's up to them. But most of my people do let me share and then I tag them with credit. I definitely shared a wedding very shortly after I finished it before the photographer even sent it back to the couple because the photographer still did
00:19:06
Speaker
And it actually, it wasn't a big deal. And, um, I don't know if this client listens to the podcast and if she does, I don't know, this might be a little weird to hear, but it's fine. But like, I definitely, I finished the wedding and just like shared an image real quick. And the client, like the bride, I don't know how she found this post because I tagged to the photographer as I do. And then the bride commented and she was like, can't wait to get these back. And I was like, uh, I, cause I do not talk with client with.
00:19:31
Speaker
with brides and grooves like I that relationship is far separate like I'm not dealing with that actual part of it it's just me and the photographer and I just like I think I just liked the comment and I was like and I messaged that photographer and I was like I didn't even think about this like and she was like oh like I I think maybe she had sent like a sneak peek so it wasn't like a brand new image look it was fine but now I wait until I see their images on social media um
00:19:56
Speaker
I don't really ask them because I I don't need to be asking the same question over and over. But generally now when I edit a wedding, I just I gather the images for social media that I want. And then usually pretty quickly, the photographer is sharing those to social. So then I know that's been a good amount of time. But like, that's just something I as an editor, I'm very conscious of as well. So it's very normal.
00:20:15
Speaker
to be conscious about when you're sharing based on like when the client gets it because how embarrassing would that be for you to share it before the client ever has it and they're like this person has it but I don't right like yeah totally well that's such a good point exactly and it the same goes for yeah for second shooters every photographer is different and each client is different with different expectations so you just don't want to get in the middle of that you don't want to be tagging and posting on social media you don't want to be posting things before
00:20:40
Speaker
the photographer has had a chance to deliver it. You don't know what the photographer is doing. You don't know if they're creating a physical album that they want to send out at the same time as the gallery. You don't know. So just delivery experience. Yeah. Yes, exactly. So you need to just respect that and pay very close attention to posting and being respectful for that. Totally. Okay. Um, yeah. I mean, I think that that was, uh, all my points, the pillars.
Rules for Primary Photographers
00:21:05
Speaker
Yeah, those were my six pillars. Thank you very much for being a good second shooter.
00:21:09
Speaker
So now that we've shared what it takes to be a good second shooter, what about when you are looking to hire the second shooter? So primary photographers, there are a few things that you should remember if you want to be pleasant to work with as well. Yeah, for sure. For primary photographers, we have three simple rules. So we went over the six pillars. Here's the three rules for the primary photographers. All right, I love it. Kindness, communication, and fair pay.
00:21:37
Speaker
Done. No, I'm just kidding. Number one, kindness. This should really go without saying, but remember that your second photographer is not your maid. They deserve your respect. I again, haven't been in this scenario, but I imagine it's easy for like a second shooter to show up and have you just kind of really start like delegating almost to the point
00:21:55
Speaker
of like did you bring a coffee like did you do this not saying you do this Beth but I mean in life it's probably like easy for that relationship to get a little funny so definitely yeah your second photographers are also professionals they are not your servants they deserve respect they're there to assist you but not to be overworked especially if you aren't paying them to do more than a second shooter's job description speak to them kindly and with patience you may have different shooting styles and that's okay ask them to do it your way with patience and explain if you need it too and feel free to like
00:22:24
Speaker
I guess it's okay to like have a little teaching moment in that too. Not a mentorship, but a few moments of like, Hey, here's what I like to do. Here's this tip. Yeah, exactly. Um, like quick note that I was thinking while you were saying that I had a photographer friend share like a story with me. Well, I've had a few people, I think chat about this kind of thing, um, about how they took second shooting gigs and the primary photographer was asking them to do like way too much.
00:22:47
Speaker
And not just like on the day of, but like on days leading up to it. And then on the wedding day they felt as if the primary photographer was kind of taking advantage of them or even like sabotaging them. Like really weird. So definitely the job of being a second photographer, that whole relationship, second photographer, primary photographer, there's roles on both sides you need to be paying attention to.
00:23:06
Speaker
And I think overall, just boundaries of respect and kindness are good to keep in mind. You know, treat them like an employee, not a maid, like you said. But another note to second photographers, be willing to learn and adjust. This isn't your wedding, so just make sure you're willing to shoot how the primary photographer wants you to shoot. Anyway, so go ahead, keep going, sorry. Yeah, I love that. And kindness as any employer is just so, like, so important. Like the minute, in my opinion, again, take from my end, the minute you, I feel like sign up,
00:23:34
Speaker
to take on second shooters and have second photographers, you're signing up to be
00:23:39
Speaker
a bit of a teacher. Again, this isn't a mentorship, but teaching moments of like, if they're maybe not doing something correctly, um, not being like, Hey, that's wrong. You suck. But just like, Oh, by the way, uh, you're holding your camera this way, but that's actually photographing them from low. You need to flip your camera and like, hold it up high to get them from up high. You know, feel free to just take that moment instead of being like, Oh, stupid. Why would you take the photos this way? Like you're signing up to like, have some patience.
00:24:05
Speaker
not like you have to guide from beginning to end, but just like if you have to correct, do so in a way that's kind. Yeah. Well, yeah. And that will kind of come in, in, um, realizing what kind of experience level you hired. If you want to hire someone and give them the blessing of getting more experience because they're new, then yeah, for sure. Like you said,
00:24:23
Speaker
be ready for some teaching moments and be patient and know how to do that well and with kindness. Of course, if you don't want to do that, if you really want someone who is just as good as you, then okay, then you're gonna have to answer with more experience and pay more. But anyways, you were saying, I love that. Yeah. So that's kindness. Number two, communication. Your second shooter will likely be second shooting for multiple photographers, each with a different shooting style and different preferences for their second shooter. So it's your job to make sure that you've clearly outlined what you need from that shooter and discover their skill level.
00:24:52
Speaker
Make sure they are prepared for the wedding day in regards to having the necessary information like start and time, location, the gear they need to bring, everything like that. Just like establish clear communication. Yeah, exactly. That's really going to be the most important to set you up to have a good second shooter, whether they're experienced or not. Yeah, because I've thought about this. I can't imagine. Well, I guess I could imagine it, but shooting for multiple people,
00:25:17
Speaker
you have to have everyone's different preferences in your head and kind of ready to go, especially during busy times. So yeah, just patience and communication in areas like that. And then number three, like I said, fair pay. We love fair pay. Be aware that pay may vary or should vary. If you hire a new photographer, they can expect to be paid less than if you hire an experienced photographer. That's just the way the industry works.
00:25:39
Speaker
So don't pay your experienced photographers at the rate of a new of a new photographer and a good general rule that also goes hand in hand with kindness. If you get tipped, consider tipping your second shooter as well. But a lot of it applies just to anything. If you work at any any wedding vendor industry and you're bringing other people on, these are things that apply everywhere for catering, for flowers, for photographers who are outsourcing to editors like
00:26:04
Speaker
the same principles really all apply. Yeah. And I think, yeah, we just kind of wanted to make the point overall that like, if you are a second shooter, you have big responsibilities. And if you're hiring second shooter, you also have responsibilities, you know, just acknowledging on both sides that everybody's different and works different. So you need to communicate.
00:26:22
Speaker
Honestly, I think a really big one that you mentioned is not overworking your second shooters. Just be respectful of what their role is. They're not there to be your servant. If they go above and beyond, great, but recognize what above and beyond is and know that that is above and beyond. If they bring you a coffee or something, that's awesome, but that's not necessarily part of the job description, and your next one might not do that, and that doesn't mean your next one is bad. They just didn't think to do that, or maybe they didn't have time, or maybe they don't feel like they're getting paid enough to do that.
00:26:51
Speaker
yeah totally good yeah and i like what you said earlier about like um showing up and like being present like you as a second shooter to kind of play off that point of like you're not expected to do this stuff try texting your photographer and being like do you need a coffee like on the way i'm on the way the way to venue do you need a coffee do you need a tea you know like little little things like that can really go a long way and establish that like
00:27:16
Speaker
Establish that relationship to be more than just like we're working together and we're going like hey, do you need a coffee? Do you need a tea when the wedding finishes? Hey, do you want to get ice cream? You know like yeah, just little things like that that might really set you apart because Beth I know you and I have talked about and outside of this episode about like for you and I won't speak for every photographer because this might not be every photographer but I know for you you like to find friends in the industry to
00:27:41
Speaker
Beyond, I understand it is like a work relationship, but I just think the little touches of like, can I grab you anything before we go or whatever can really just like set you apart and make that photographer want to work with you more. That would at least be me too, I think, but yeah, no, for sure.
00:27:55
Speaker
Yeah, as you were saying that, I was kind of thinking, you know, we didn't really explain yet in this episode, like, the second shooters I've worked with that I've really loved and, like, what they've been like. Because we've said, you know, we said our pillars, but I thought it might be fun to share, like, the best second shooters I've had have had a few of the same qualities. And it kind of has helped me. That's one of the things that helped me narrow down, like, what my six pillars were for what I think a great second shooter is. And so, I mean, I think I can, do you think I should share? Yeah, no, do it. I love that. I think that would be awesome.
00:28:24
Speaker
Okay so like one of the first things and you were talking about being friendly and like making friends, one of the first things I noticed in my favorite second shooters have been that they have been friendly and they've also been like really hardworking and respectful and that really leads me to be able to have a relationship with them because you know if I feel this mutual respect and they've been friendly and eager and I just really really like when people are hardworking.
00:28:47
Speaker
I will often go to my second shooters to throw it away and be like, are you good? Like, do you want to take a break? Like, I'm not going to let you overwork yourself if you're second shooting for me. But I do want to see that you are working hard and then take plenty of breaks. But I just like when the base is a hard work ethic.
00:29:04
Speaker
Yeah, you have to like
Building Relationships and Finding Gigs
00:29:05
Speaker
kind of bring them down from the work and be like, Hey, time to eat, you know, but you don't have to be like, Hey, why are you sitting like get up? Yeah, I get that totally. Yeah, exactly. And then another thing that I noticed a lot of my favorite second shooters, they're very like patient with information. So this was kind of a point I made earlier in the podcast, like, let the primary photographer give you the information.
00:29:24
Speaker
Oftentimes, my brides won't even give me a timeline until a couple days before. If I hire my second shooter a couple months before, it's really nice when they're just like, oh, I know you'll get me the information when I need it. I have a date. I'm available that date. You let me know the timeline when it's time. It's really nice. They're often very easy to communicate with.
00:29:46
Speaker
they wait for me to give them the information but there's also a bit of a trust there kind of going back to the first thing I said like you know there's a friendly relationship that is built so they trust me um which is nice um and then another I mean of course it always stands out to me when someone does go above and beyond I've had a second shooter show up before a couple of times with like a tea for me in the morning or they're like oh what's your coffee I don't drink coffee but you know it's like what's your tea or something I was gonna say if they bring you tea that's like your love language because if they brought coffee you'd be like
00:30:15
Speaker
It's so nice because I've had a couple people and then someone who's done this multiple times they go what's your coffee order or they know now like what's your tea order and that's just so nice like I feel so honored and blessed when they do that and it's also an acknowledgement I feel of respect knowing that like I
00:30:31
Speaker
I, this is a big day for me. Like wedding days are exhausting. I'm going to be there longer than them. I'm working very hard. I'm the main point of contact. Everything falls on my shoulder and they're really there to assist. So I feel like that's such a big above and beyond move. Um, but more and more people are doing that now. And I really respect that. And I have decided that whenever I second shoot, I want to do that as well. Um, because of how much an impact it made on me the first time that a second shooter did that to me, I was like, Oh, this is, this is the bar. I'm going to do this now every time that I can.
00:30:58
Speaker
I do that for my photographers like who shoot who shoot me like because I've had some like branding sessions done and and yeah that's always just like well I mean you did one of mine so of course I'm gonna buy you a tea but like I had another photographer who's back home do one for me and yeah just a simple text like hey I'm getting coffee for the day what's your what's your order and sometimes they don't need anything and that's chill but I I just yeah it's so nice in life I think that's just a nice thing to do yeah
00:31:26
Speaker
Exactly. And it goes such a long way, especially in developing real relationships and friendships. Yeah, I think it's great. It just shows you care so much. And then another thing that's like kind of a side point that I didn't put in the pillars was like energy matching. This one is kind of random, but I love that went
00:31:43
Speaker
yeah and it makes so for me when i go to a wedding day i try really hard to make sure that i am a very positive point of contact i guess i just want to be very positive light throughout the day because it's a very stressful day and you know the parents of the bride and groom the bride and groom themselves
00:31:59
Speaker
Um, bridal party, like there's a lot that they're doing and it's really easy for there to be tension and stress. So I want to be someone who's always smiling and when they come to me, I am confident, I'm smiling, I'm calm. So when I have a second shooter that matches my energy and they make a point to do so because everyone's different, you know, we don't walk around every day, like super smiling, super calm, super confident.
00:32:17
Speaker
So when they go, okay, this is how Beth needs to start the wedding day. I'm going to make sure that I'm very kind. I'm very smiley. I'm very calm. Yeah. Like that, that is awesome. I love when my favorite, my favorite second shooters definitely do that as well. They are really good at energy matching. And I don't know if it's a super conscious choice they make, but it's something that they do, um, purposefully, I think as far as I can tell. Um, so that's another great one as well. And I think that those are like the main things that I see that really flow over. And aside from that, my favorite second shooters,
00:32:48
Speaker
are always really respectful about asking when they can post. They do not post before me. All those boundaries, they're never tagging. They're always listing me as the primary photographer. That's another one. If you're a second shooter and you post on social media, make sure that you post who the primary photographer was. Again, that's giving them credit. That's kind of the same along the same lines of the client tagging.
00:33:09
Speaker
you were technically an employee or a client kind of, of the photographer. So give them credit because they hired you. It was their wedding day. So anyways, I hope that makes sense. Yeah. Oh, I know that was a, that was a great way to like finish off. Cause I, that's like different than like, here's the standards, but then here's also for like you specifically what really stood out. I think that's super. I think there's a lot to learn from that for sure. Yeah, exactly.
00:33:36
Speaker
All right, so I think to wrap up this episode, we have some bonus tips. We're going to share how you can get more second shooting gigs. It's one thing to want more second shooting gigs. It's another thing to know where to look. So we suggest that number one, you should be following many photographers.
00:33:54
Speaker
who you look up to, people who are successful, people who are busy on social media, because you know, they're gonna post when they need second shooters. They're gonna put on their stories for a second shooter call. That's a really great way to start out, guaranteeing that you will see some second shooter calls. I think that's actually gonna be the best way. Instagram, Facebook, make sure you're following lots of local photographers to your area, even if they have slightly different styles from you. Remember, when you're second shooting, you don't have to have their exact same style, because you're gonna be giving the photos to them.
00:34:22
Speaker
So you just want to be following people who get lots of work, people who you look up to because they're going to be the ones who are looking for second shooters. Yeah, totally. Another way is to join a second shooter community like Second Shooter Society. They will have lots of tips for you and you can also actually create a profile on their website to help facilitate
00:34:42
Speaker
more connections with your primary shooters. And lastly don't be afraid to post that you are looking for more second shooting gigs. Primary photographers will see that and they'll save that or even reach out to you right away to add you to their contact list for when they need a second shooter. I have a list going of my second shooters that I want to reach out to every time that I need a second shooter. I have like my main three that I usually go to and if they're busy I just keep working my way down the list and sometimes I'll need to do a second shooter call
00:35:09
Speaker
If it's in an area that I don't have second shooters already based in.
Conclusion and Community Building
00:35:12
Speaker
But yeah, if you just put yourself out there, somebody's going to see it and they'll probably add you to their list. Right. Awesome. And as always, remember to create real relationships with your fellow vendors. We talk about this huge in, it's a very, it's an earlier episode of ours, but our community versus competition episode, we talk huge about creating community and cultivating relationships in the industry that will ultimately lead to more work.
00:35:35
Speaker
There's absolutely huge amount of room for community in this industry and it's being a community member and it's giving, it's taking, it's receiving, it's putting yourself out there, it's cultivating relationships with your primary photographer for sure. And then yeah, feel free to say hello to your fellow vendors. Oh, you did the flowers, these are beautiful. Be a part of that community, but ultimately to your primary for sure first. You're their work bestie, basically.
00:36:01
Speaker
Anyways, thank you guys so much for tuning in once again. We really look forward to getting to share our thoughts on topics like this, especially relating to businesses, business owning. Photography is a big one, and we haven't gotten to do a photography topic in a while, so this was wonderful for us to just kind of dive into this, and we really hope you got something useful out of it, again, for the aspiring second shooters, the existing ones, or the photographers who want to pick up more second shooting. We really hope all this helped clarify some stuff that maybe you didn't know.
00:36:31
Speaker
For more resources, don't forget to follow us on Instagram at the Art of Intention podcast. We share so many resources per episode. If there's any resources that apply, we're constantly updating that and putting even more material out there for you guys to use. And as always, you can find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and Zencaster, wherever you get your podcasts. We'd love for you to leave a five star review wherever you listen and subscribe so that you never miss an episode. And we will catch you next week.
00:37:01
Speaker
Bye!