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Scream 4
21 Plays15 days ago
Join Nicholas and Mercedes as they discuss 2011's Scream 4! The return of Wes Craven and Kevin Williamson to the decade dormant Scream series. Possibly the podcast’s most polarizing movie to date. Listen as your hosts take their stand for their sides of the debate. They also discuss James Gunn's Superman (2025), Hell Motel, Red Eye, Ready or Not, and the idea of the Scream Television show about cyberbullying. This is a fired-up episode!
Remember to follow us on Instagram @morbid_curiosities_pod
Email us at morbidcuriosities10@gmail.com with comments/questions/concerns/recommendations
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Transcript
Introduction to Morbid Curiosities Podcast
00:01:12
Speaker
What's up, guys? We're Morbid Curiosities, your favorite horror movie podcast, bringing you another episode. I'm one of your hosts, Nicholas Ewers, and with me is the lightweight champion of the world, the morbid mistress of mayhem herself.
00:01:25
Speaker
Mercedes Martinez. What's up, Nick? How are you today? I'm doing pretty good. I've seen Superman actually twice within like the past several days.
00:01:36
Speaker
and i got to say, you know I don't know how you feel about Superman. I know this is a horror movie podcast. It's got me like riding on a high. haven't jammed into the Superman score lately.
00:01:48
Speaker
It's been
Superman vs Horror: Nicholas and Mercedes' Film Preferences
00:01:49
Speaker
keeping me in a pretty good mood. I got to see it with my family. But... Yeah, I've been moving it up. How are you doing? I'm good. I'm not the biggest fan of Superman. I've actually been watching
Exploring Horror Shows: Hell Motel and More
00:02:03
Speaker
that show that I had mentioned to you the other day, Hell Hotel or Hell Motel, whatever it's called.
00:02:09
Speaker
yeah did Did you ever see a preview for it or know what it is? i had heard the title, I want to say, before you had mentioned it to me. Do you know like what year it came out or ah where did you watch it at?
00:02:23
Speaker
I was watching it on Prime, actually, and i it came out in June of this year. TV show or a movie? It's a show. so Without spoiling it, i it's like a span of a couple nights of this crew. They just go to this haunted motel. and Well, it's not necessarily haunted, but this motel where something bad happened and You just see all these murders go about and they're trying to figure out who is the culprit behind all of these.
00:02:57
Speaker
It's a trippy watch. I'm not going to lie. There are some cool episodes in there, but some of them, they're just a little too much. But i don't know. I think you'd you'd enjoy watching it. I'll have to check it out. I haven't watched much horror TV, actually. It's never been ah ah a big thing of mine.
00:03:16
Speaker
I'd say the most I watched was American Horror Story Season 1, and I wasn't a big fan of Season 1. Yeah, season was okay And I remember so many people hyping up season three. And I think that's when I started watching the show. Yeah, just watching the rest of it. I can be drawn into maybe one episode or so, but I lose interest really quick. i don't really watch horror TV like that. i really have to be bored or i see something in it and it
Scream 4: A Franchise Revitalization
00:03:51
Speaker
has to look super interesting in order for me to watch it.
00:03:55
Speaker
Speaking of horror TV and something actually pretty topical for the movie that we're talking about today. Did you ever watch the Scream TV show, which for some reason I have a vague memory of existing, came out in 2015.
00:04:13
Speaker
There were three seasons of it. It was on MTV produced by the Weinsteins. Ew. It's about cyberbullying. Yes, I think I did i did watch that. so I watched the first season. I think I was trying to watch the second season, but it was it was weird. and
Character Development in Scream 4: Hits and Misses
00:04:33
Speaker
yeah I didn't really like it after a while. so That one, you're not missing out on anything if you don't watch it.
00:04:40
Speaker
It's not related to the Sidney Prescott murders at all? No, it's not. You can watch this just as a TV show itself. Yeah, it doesn't look like it is.
00:04:52
Speaker
That's where I've seen this mask before, actually. Someone I follow on Letterboxd, their picture is this exact like Scream mask that I'm looking at.
00:05:03
Speaker
I had no idea that that was from an actual Scream TV That mask is atrocious compared to Ghostface. So atrocious. It's wild. I wonder if there were weird rights reasons for why they couldn't use the actual ghost face mask.
00:05:21
Speaker
It has a 7 out of 10 on IMDb and 61% on Rotten Tomatoes, 61 critic, 59 audience. I mean, it's not great, but that's a lot better than I expected it to be.
00:05:35
Speaker
I mean, if you want to watch the first episode, you can. Yeah, it's streaming on YouTube, Apple TV, Fandango at Home, Amazon Prime. So guys, if you have any interest in that, that's you know right there begging you to watch it. I guess that brings us to the movie at hand today. Guys, we're talking about Scream 4.
00:05:57
Speaker
This is 11 years After Scream 3? Yeah, so 11 years after the last Scream movie. It's like the big franchise revitalization.
00:06:11
Speaker
you had seen this a lot earlier than i had seen it. This was... Not exactly my first time seeing it, but my first time really watching it and absorbing it, especially within the context of these movies. But what are you your thoughts on Scream 4? What's your relationship to this movie and how did you feel about it when you first saw it and how do you feel about it now?
00:06:33
Speaker
so When I first saw it, I didn't know what to expect because I was so content with the ending, you know the wrap-up of the Scream 3 trilogy.
00:06:50
Speaker
though that was a strange reveal, i was content with it just ending like that. so Since we' we're opening up that chapter again, like, okay, so what's going to happen now?
00:07:02
Speaker
and just
Scream 4's Opening and Meta Commentary
00:07:04
Speaker
following the storyline, has good moments where i guess you can like some of the characters in here. ah We still have our remaining trio or surviving trio of Sidney, Gale and Dewey, which is great, but At the same time, the only legacy character that I did like in here was Dewey. like i I don't like Gale's character in here. I barely like Sydney's character in here because she isn't a strong presence in here either. She's just kind of like cast to the side again. yeah the Some of the new characters they brought in, I did like, but it as a whole and then the
Performances and Character Interactions in Scream 4
00:07:47
Speaker
ending reveal, it
00:07:48
Speaker
it It wasn't working for me. And as the years went on, seeing how many people reviewed it and how many people actually liked the reveal just because of how quote unquote crazy it was, that really didn't sit well with me either. Just I don't know. I have my thoughts on it. I'll get into it later. But yeah, I can like the film.
00:08:12
Speaker
It's not one of my favorites, though. What did you think about it I don't know if this is going to surprise you or not. We definitely feel very differently about the movie. I didn't expect you to be so lukewarm on the thing.
00:08:24
Speaker
Yeah, this is this is my favorite Scream movie, I think. Oh my God, knew it. I'm not using the word best. You knew it was going to be my favorite. I'm not using the word best. I knew it. But this is definitely my favorite Scream movie. I think this would end up at my number one.
00:08:41
Speaker
I've watched it twice so far for the podcast and both times. There are times on the second watch it's like, okay, it feels like I'm doing homework. I'm doing work for the podcast.
00:08:52
Speaker
But I was like genuinely into it just as much as I was the first time. I think this movie plays the best on rewatch after knowing the reveal.
00:09:03
Speaker
Yeah, I guess I won't spoil it yet. I'll give my just initial thoughts and then we'll go into spoilers for it. I just found this movie thrilling throughout.
00:09:14
Speaker
When it comes to the returning characters, I felt like it handled all of the characters that are coming back better than three handled them.
00:09:25
Speaker
And I feel like it handles Dewey and Gale better than the past two movies have handled Dewey and Gale. I've expressed my frustration with the way those characters are handled like a bunch though. You guys can go listen to the the past two episodes.
00:09:40
Speaker
I've kind of been pretty vocal about my frustration overall with how rushed these have felt and especially three, like it felt like people were fulfilling contractual obligations.
00:09:52
Speaker
This time around, everybody feels like
Scream 4: Analyzing the Impact of Brutal Kills
00:09:56
Speaker
they're back. And I watch it, and it seems like they're proud to be in a Scream movie. like It felt like kind of sad a little bit watching them look so tired of it and a little over it in Scream 3. The new cast, they're always having fun.
00:10:14
Speaker
And these new cast members in this one, just the same. They look like they're loving it, bringing their A game. but the returning cast, that it feels, they feel just as like revitalized as they did in the first movie. It feels like they're happy to be in a scream movie again. And it, it made me feel good to see.
00:10:35
Speaker
And i don't know. I just really enjoyed this movie. I think it's, it's definitely my favorite of the franchise. I didn't really know the reputation any of these had, and I kind of expected to maybe not like this one so much, especially because I had messaged you. I put on i have the steelbook for Scream 5. It just says Scream on it. There's no number, so I had no idea which one that was, so I'm like, this is Scream 4.
00:11:07
Speaker
i open it, pop it in, and I'm kind of realizing that it's not Scream 4, And so I turned it off and i was like, okay, that movie looks really good actually. And I was going into Scream 4 being like, fuck, this is like the shitty one I'm about to put on then. If 5 looked that good.
00:11:29
Speaker
So I could be wrong.
The Stabathon Sequence and High School Reflections
00:11:31
Speaker
Maybe 5 sucks. I really don't know. But I threw on 4 and I was actually pretty apprehensive at first because The introduction of Dewey wasn't working for me at the very beginning.
00:11:44
Speaker
And Sydney, i didn't really love her in three. And I had to kind of like, she had to work her way back on my side little bit.
00:11:57
Speaker
So it wasn't the best start, but four really, yeah, won me over. Also, i mean, the fake out, I didn't know what to make of that. i actually had to pause it and rewind and be like, okay.
00:12:09
Speaker
hold on a second. Like what is happening here? Yeah, I thought this one was going to lean hard into comedy when those fake outs were happening. I was like, fuck, I don't want this franchise to get too funny. And luckily, I'll say, this is the movie that probably leans on the comedy the least, I'd say.
00:12:31
Speaker
It has comedic moments, but it is the darkest and it it's the meanest. And i guess we can say spoilers ahead from here on out. If you haven't seen Scream 4... don't really know why you're listening to this episode of the podcast ah ah just without having seen the movie maybe that's how you do everything in life you just do the cliff notes version of it all hey now we are also here to influence people to watch these movies sometimes they watch them along with us sometimes they've watched them already and sometimes they love our commentary on it so much that it makes them want to watch it These movies, watch them if you can without spoilers. I know we're on the fourth one, so you have this one and two others to go and clean. We've probably ruined the other three for you.
00:13:24
Speaker
It's all about the ride for me, the mystery. It works so well. But anyway, we already kind of touched on this fake-out beginning, and we don't have to take the movie fully in order because a lot of shit
The Killers' Reveal and Climactic Showdown
00:13:35
Speaker
happens in this one.
00:13:37
Speaker
But, I mean, how did you feel about the fake-out beginning? Because, it like I said, it did, like, rub me the wrong way at first, but i it grew on me, especially when I want to say it's Anna Kendrick.
00:13:51
Speaker
Is that who's in the second one? Not Anna Kendrick. Fuck. right Anna Paquin. Anna Paquin and Veronica Mars. Kristen Bell. Kristen Bell. When they get into it, I start to enjoy it. And then when we're fully in Scream, we're no longer in Stab 6 or 7, I'm locked in.
00:14:11
Speaker
they open it in the beginning you have Lucy Hale and that one girl from Degrassi I can't remember her actual name I didn't really like that I thought it was very generic and then once you see oh that's just a film and it's Anna Paquin and Kristen Bell I'm thinking okay cool you know they're going to be in here. i wonder how their characters are going to fit in it. But then once Kristen Bell stabs Anna, I'm like, God damn it, we're doing this shit again. And then we're looking at some faces that I've never recognized.
00:14:50
Speaker
was just like, all right, so now what are we doing? At that point, I was kind of annoyed, so I didn't like the intro. Yeah, I had a kind of different reaction to the intro, like a different way of processing it, I would say. So the first one, when it was going on, I was like, okay, yeah, we're doing this again. And when you're saying something's generic, I feel like that was intentional from the filmmakers as feature, right?
00:15:21
Speaker
I also have to say, too, in the first section of it, when they
Potential Endings and Future of the Franchise
00:15:25
Speaker
had the first two, like, ghost face killers, like, kill those two girls, I thought, like, oh, they're revealing to us right away that it's two killers.
00:15:35
Speaker
And then when it's revealed that it's like, okay, the false movie, we're fully doubling down on the meta aspect of it. I didn't love it at first, that realization,
00:15:47
Speaker
But when Kristen Bell, when she stabs Anna Paquin and you thought that we were doing the fake movie again, I didn't think that. I was like, oh, my God, what is happening? right I was like, are they revealing the killer immediately? That's kind of a new take. I was bought hook, line and sinker for that fucking second fake opening.
00:16:11
Speaker
And then when when they revealed that that was actually Stab 7, I was like, okay, this might be a little too much.
00:16:21
Speaker
But when we were in the actual real Scream movie itself, I did fully enjoy that sequence. I thought it was really thrilling. And I liked to the relationship these two actors had with each other. I don't know who they are, but I thought they were very good.
00:16:38
Speaker
i'm I'm so interested for this episode because we have two completely different takes on this. So this is going to be fun. Even with the the color palette of this movie, i don't i don't know if you liked it. It was bothering me. Yeah, the lighting and the look. Yeah, it just looked like. No, this movie looks bad. It's the worst looking of the four so far.
00:17:03
Speaker
It just looks like it's smudged, like the camera is smudged while recording. And i i don't know, that was just bothering me throughout the whole film. It honestly reminded me of when you'd watch like a bootleg video where like someone was recording something in the movie theater and you could see just how bad the quality of it all is.
00:17:27
Speaker
So that's kind of what I was thinking when I first watched it. As soon as they bring in a Sydney, who is kind of rocking her high school hairdo just in the color black.
00:17:43
Speaker
So it's like, okay, they're all returning back to Woodsboro and maybe we're going to see some of their same personality traits or characteristics. I don't know.
00:17:54
Speaker
But yeah, apparently she's a writer now, you know, writing her whole victim story about how she's choosing not to be a victim anymore. That's great.
00:18:05
Speaker
But I found it like even better just when, you know, they bring in Dewey and Gale, obviously, and Gale is just like... silently losing her mind just watching like interviews of Sydney while she's actually you know getting all this media attention on her book and Gail can't really write or doesn't know what to write at this current moment and just kind of feels like those yeah she's like out of her prime
00:18:37
Speaker
Exactly. so that's I like that effect that they have in here. That detail super strong. And it just adds to the reason why I don't like Gail in here either. It's just like let her have her, you know, her moment with writing like she didn't ask for this. But now that she did have to deal with it, let her figure out how to cope with it. Stop being a greedy bitch.
00:19:02
Speaker
But Courtney Cox delivers in here. You think that she comes across as greedy in this one? I feel like I didn't really get that read at all of her. I felt like she was very, i want to help out. I want to assist. It really wasn't about the fame. She kind of came out ah ah came off as like the most genuine here. Yeah, like she's writing fiction, but it's not really fulfilling her as much. And So to me, Courtney Cox honestly kind of felt her and Sydney felt almost like an analog for the Scream franchise and for Wes Craven ah ah ah ah himself.
00:19:44
Speaker
He this movie does a little bit of what Wes Craven's new nightmare does, which is my favorite of the night of the Nightmare on Elm Street movies that I've seen.
00:19:58
Speaker
That was him returning to the franchise to revitalize it after it had been... I wouldn't say that... I haven't seen most of the movies. I wouldn't say those got bad. He was brought in to kind of revitalize it.
00:20:11
Speaker
This feels like a revitalization of the Scream franchise after how Scream 3 was received. And Gail is looking to reinvent herself after seeing that Sydney has reinvented herself, not playing the victim anymore, but playing...
00:20:28
Speaker
I don't know what you would call her like, but she's more heroic. Definitely. She takes charge. She talks about how she played the victim for too long and she had to reinvent herself. And I mean, I found that all very charming with Sydney And I like that Gale is looking at Sidney being like, I want that for myself. And it kind of feels like that's Wes Craven saying, I want that for my career.
00:20:52
Speaker
And I want that for this franchise. Because it's him, after a few like roughly received movies, he's returning to something that he's familiar with too. And that's what Gale Weathers is going back to.
00:21:06
Speaker
I know I talked a lot, but I really appreciated that. I did not get any of that at all from Gail's character. like Because i mean, I get where you're coming from with it. But with Gail,
00:21:20
Speaker
it just It's just her trying to do everything for herself. Like, yes, she is trying to reinvent herself too.
00:21:31
Speaker
Okay, so then what does she do? She uses someone else's trauma to try to like write about it or to get the scoop on it. Like every time something happened and Dewey, he's trying to, since he's the sheriff now,
00:21:49
Speaker
He's, you know, trying to be professional and not involve her because he doesn't want that to look bad from the outside eye. He's trying to, you know, keep her out of it or just like, you know, we'll talk about it at home. Yeah.
00:22:04
Speaker
Honestly, that that was like the professional way to go. Like that was a good thing for him to do. Her, on the other hand, she's just getting pissed off because she's not getting her way. She's not like weaseling her way into figuring out what's going on with every step of the case.
00:22:22
Speaker
And it's all to her benefit. Like she's she sees Sydney and in the little bookstore when they were doing like the the whatever they were doing, book signing, whatever.
00:22:35
Speaker
And you could see she's just envious of her like, OK, you know, she has this. And later on, you see she's a little pretentious when it comes to the little movie buffs in here.
00:22:48
Speaker
She's kind of trying to charm her way into like their minds. Like, oh, yeah, let's work together. kind of like how she was charming her way for Dewey. Even though, yes, they ended up dating and getting married.
00:23:00
Speaker
But all of this, everything she does is only for her benefit. Like, she doesn't, like... come off as I want to help you guys solve this case. She's like, I want to help solve this case because I want to be able to include this in my next piece of work here.
00:23:18
Speaker
So Courtney Cox is great, but I hate it I think she can want both. I don't see it like that. I think you can want both. i think you can want to genuinely help solve the case and help prevent these murders while also wanting to revitalize your career. I think you can want both. and But also, like I was trying to frame it in the way like the real world works a lot of the time.
00:23:50
Speaker
these people who write about these killers, like Patton Oswalt, his wife who had passed away, I don't remember her name. I apologize, but she had helped. Uh, she put out a book that helped the police find, I think it was like the golden gate killer, something like that.
00:24:08
Speaker
Like, these investigative journalists actually, I mean, while they do get in the way sometimes, and that's been portrayed in movies we've covered too, like sinister, It has shown in the real world these people do kind of help and and like notice things that authorities have overlooked.
00:24:28
Speaker
So I feel like given her history and involvement with the case, she wouldn't be fully shut out. I do get where Dewey's coming from. Also, he's the sheriff. He's like, I'm the big boy now. I can't break the rules anymore. I'm not allowed to be the rule breaker.
00:24:43
Speaker
So I agree with Dewey. But I also think Gale has two intentions and both intentions are pretty valid.
00:24:54
Speaker
You just give everyone the benefit of the doubt. I just go to the negative right off the bat. all All she needed in this movie was Patrick Dempsey to come save her, and then she probably could have been more of use in here.
00:25:09
Speaker
I do feel like this movie gives Gail a lot of agency, and she is... i mean, she does contribute pretty positively throughout all of the other movies, I'd say.
00:25:22
Speaker
Like, you can, i guess, say that there's an exploitative nature to anyone who maybe be makes a documentary about things like this, or...
00:25:34
Speaker
true crime podcasters, like all of these people in some way, they're all benefiting off of these tragedies that have occurred in real life.
00:25:45
Speaker
But there's also like a purpose that they, it feels like they serve in our society of delivering um information that people, like there is a demand for.
00:25:57
Speaker
We spent a lot of time talking about Gale Weathers and I know we're like, we're a little limited on, on time today. So how about a good way to kind of cover a good amount of events in this movie?
00:26:09
Speaker
How about we go through the major players in this movie? Like we did Gail and kind of give our opinions old and returning. So we've got Gail. you have any more thoughts on Sydney you want to give?
00:26:21
Speaker
Again, her presence in here is not really a main focal point. I do think it's pretty shitty that, you know, they, not shitty, but it's just kind of a, it's, it's annoying. It's, it's strange to me that it just is trying to tie back to like family ties for her.
00:26:43
Speaker
and It's like, we've never met these people before. We only knew about her mother within like passing of you know the stories about her and her promiscuity.
00:26:58
Speaker
so Just the reveal in part three and then the reveal in here. It's weird just because it's like it's still trying to tie back to her in a way, but a new take on it. I don't know. no I didn't like it, so. So the reveal in part three, I felt was way, way more convoluted than this one.
00:27:19
Speaker
Actually, when I was watching this one and the aunt and the cousin showed up, I was like, that's a lot like Terrifier three, kind of. They do the same thing where it's like Sienna's with an aunt and a cousin now.
00:27:35
Speaker
So, So, ah you know, I mean, other people have family members. Yeah. But still, if you're not introducing every person like that in the first or second film, why are you going to bring them in a later film? It just it doesn't mesh well. I i think the fluidity eve going from, yeah, my brother is the killer in this one to the reveal in here. to me, it looks sloppy. i
00:28:08
Speaker
kind I liked it. so I feel like all of the reveals have been pretty sloppy, even going back to the first one. Whoa.
00:28:20
Speaker
Whoa. There's a lot of legwork they do to justify Billy. Like, the whole mom plot, while it is pretty... It feels pretty original, it is a pretty convoluted thing. And then they double down on how convoluted it is in the third one, where they're like, oh, it goes back to Hollywood, and he became a big director, and all of this. And so they've all...
00:28:44
Speaker
been pretty convoluted like especially because like part two they do the same thing they introduce another family member billy has mom everybody's got a mom for some reason it's weird but and
00:28:59
Speaker
i feel like the crux of this movie though of All of these movies haven't been the reveals, though. It's been the who's doing all of this right now, which one. And then as people are getting picked off, it's not them. It's not them. It's not them.
00:29:15
Speaker
And when it comes to reveals, I think this is the best one since the first movie. but you can't knock the first one because you had Billy and you had Stu.
00:29:28
Speaker
you You can't say that was sloppy. That was good work there. No, the double reveal, that's what people really remember. But I feel like when Stu is explaining it, where he's like, it was your mother and she fucked my dad, and everyone's like, wait, what the fuck?
00:29:44
Speaker
yeah I feel like the first time you're watching it, there is kind of a reaction of, What? Did what? Like, Billy's connection to it... Everybody's connection to Sydney is always pretty sweaty.
00:29:58
Speaker
There's, like, three to four degrees before they get to Sydney. And I do really like that this one is a bit of a commentary on, like, modern youth at the time. It being just a teenager who wants attention and being like, my fucking cousin is the only one who got attention in this family...
00:30:17
Speaker
It's like all about my cousin, Sydney, my cousin, Sydney, I'm going to fake all of this in order to get that attention. And by the end, when she's throwing herself into glass tables and running into walls with knives, when she stabs herself and she's like ah, screams and kicks the thing i fucking love that but i was just watching that and it reminded me of that like documentary i don't remember what it's on it's i think it's called i love you now die something like that about this like girl who convinced her boyfriend to kill himself so she could get the attention
00:30:54
Speaker
And I was like, this is kind of believable to me. This like weird social media youth attention thing. I kind of get it. And she's like, I'll just do what my cousin did and I'll get all that attention.
00:31:09
Speaker
It's still pretty convoluted at the end of the day, but I was buying into it. It felt like there was a realism there. I also liked What's Her Face's performance too. I like the two killers. It's revealed to be Emma Roberts and Rory Culkin.
00:31:25
Speaker
like I thought they were great on top of that too. I... couldn't buy into Emma Roberts in here because i watched her in that Nickelodeon show on Fabulous.
00:31:40
Speaker
I just saw her as a dorky little blonde girl. and Seeing her in here, I'm like, whoa, wait a minute. that you you just can't go from this to this. Like, that's too big of a clash difference there.
00:31:58
Speaker
But, like, when they show Jill as being Sidney's cousin, okay, you know, whatever, we're bringing in that family tie. um And when she is revealed to be the killer,
00:32:13
Speaker
In my head, i'm just thinking, well, she couldn't have killed this person or she couldn't have been this person because both her and was it Karen Culkin or Rory Culkin who plays the other killer? Rory Culkin. Rory, there's so many of the Kulkins.
00:32:33
Speaker
Kieran got his Oscar and his Emmys for Succession. i I'm a big fan of some of these Kulkins. Rory, man, he should have got some Academy love for his performance in this movie. I was all about Rory Kulkin in this.
00:32:49
Speaker
What? His character is like... the moody emo kid at times where what were you watching that's how you read him yes i didn't read him as moody emo he had more of like incel vibes at times to me like when he's like you didn't pay attention to me at all when i was uh like for four years and now you're paying attention to me and i mean especially on like a rebbra rewatch there's little facial reactions he's making and little nods to jill from across the room especially near the end where i was just like oh man the the subtlety to this performance is pretty great
00:33:34
Speaker
And I kind of just took him as like a he's portraying himself as I'm chill, quiet guy that likes movies. But deep down, I'm very insecure and hurt because women won't talk to me.
00:33:49
Speaker
That's the thing, though. His friend in there, Robbie Mercer, he he's the one that was like doing all the talking. He was the more like extroverted one out of that geeky little friend group or a duo, I should say. and Then Rory Culkin's character, Charlie,
00:34:05
Speaker
he He didn't say much at first. And yeah, I did see like the the like little subtle looks that he would give to other characters or to Jill.
00:34:18
Speaker
But i didn't buy his performance because any of the killers from the previous films like you could see how you know messy they are or even like in the first one, how out there Stu's performance was just when him and Randy were begging Sidney to give them the gun and kind of pull it on the other, pull the trigger on the other just to defend himself.
00:34:46
Speaker
When in this one they have and He is tied to a chair like... What's his name?
00:34:57
Speaker
I think it's Steve. Yeah, it's Steve. Yeah, Steve. Steve Orth or whatever. Yeah, when he's tied up like Steve was...
00:35:07
Speaker
You would think he'd be in a little more of a panic state just trying to like look around or at least look where he knows the killer is at. He's just kind of breathing in that part, in that scene.
00:35:22
Speaker
And you have Kirby kind of in the place of Drew Barrymore where she's just answering all the trivia questions from Ghostface. You know, she looks obviously more panicked because she doesn't know he's a killer. But I don't know. Sell yourself at this point.
00:35:39
Speaker
So now, man, this guy did not deserve any awards in here. Actors can be playing characters who are bad at acting, and that could just be Charlie's bad at selling it. I feel like Rory Culkin is delivering a type of performance. There's like a subtlety and a naturalism to his performance.
00:35:59
Speaker
that I feel like is very hard to get right. And I mean, another person who I think gets that type of like naturalism right is Kristen Stewart. I know someone you're not a big fan of, but- Rory Culkin, yeah, I think he's delivering a very subtle, like a masterfully subtle performance in this one.
00:36:23
Speaker
I don't know what other work I've really... oh Signs. Yeah, going to say, I'm pretty sure he was in Signs, and he was in that weird movie. You can count me. Weird Creek or Weird Creek, Mean Creek. He's also in Columbus with Parker Posey.
00:36:40
Speaker
So I don't know. Rory Culkin, maybe I got to check out more of his movies. He might be an underappreciated actor. I don't mind him as an actor. I just don't think he deserved any awards from this film.
00:36:54
Speaker
He's not like a character I hate, but he could have amped up the the performance in here. It's Sounds like you want to take food out of his children's mouths right now.
00:37:06
Speaker
yeah like it sounds like he doesn't you don't think he deserves to work in Hollywood again. There was a scene that just made me laugh with him. and Charlie, not Charlie, Robbie, they already had their little conversation with, what's her name, Gail, and she's saying, oh, I'll do like a...
00:37:30
Speaker
kind of like a a guest speaker, whatever performer your cinema club. So, you know, they're kind of hyped for that, but they're more so hyped for her to bring Sydney along.
00:37:42
Speaker
And, during their little performance there. Why do I keep saying performance? During During their ah little meeting at Cinema Club, just how he acts with Gail. He's trying to be so closed off at the same time.
00:37:58
Speaker
I don't know. He has that personality where he... He's a little moody. You can kind of see he's a little moody. The emo part, I was more so leaning towards when he reveals himself as the killer to Kirby.
00:38:12
Speaker
But in here, he's just a little, like a little shit. I just want to smack him in this up in this scene right here. But there's Cinema Club.
00:38:23
Speaker
Why didn't we have that at our high school? I would have joined that fucking extracurricular in a heartbeat, man. No one would have been able to appreciate that at our high school.
00:38:35
Speaker
That's true. would have been a small group of us. Yeah, I got to say, I didn't really like pick up on any moodiness from him. He never struck me as moody, just kind of like low-key almost. There's a character in this movie called My Old Ass with Aubrey Plaza. Have you seen that movie?
00:38:56
Speaker
No, i haven't. there's a guy character that's in that movie with longer hair. If anybody who watches that movie, they'll know exactly who I'm talking about. I got more of like that guy's kind of vibes out of Kieran Culkin, like a guy that's just kind of hanging out, just kind of there. And he likes movies.
00:39:15
Speaker
While we're on a cinema club, but I kind of wanted to run down. I don't have many notes for this episode, but the notes I do have is I took note of,
00:39:25
Speaker
Every movie poster that I caught on the wall of the cinema club thing, Mercedes, if you don't mind me running down all of them, there's 13. Please do. ok So the original Hills Have Eyes, there's a movie called Feast. I had never heard of that one.
00:39:41
Speaker
Wolf Creek, Zack and Mary Make a Porno, the original Dawn of the Dead, Rob Zombie's Halloween too I loved that addition. I was like, oh man, Wes Craven, he sees something in this movie like I do.
00:39:55
Speaker
The original The Thing, Vertigo, Brazil, Death Proof, The People Under the Stairs, The Green Mile, and a movie I watched the day before watching Scream 4. It blew my mind.
00:40:09
Speaker
Blood Simple. That's a five out of five directorial debut from the Coens. Check out Blood Simple if you haven't, Mercedes. That movie rules... Listeners, check out Blood Simple if you haven't.
00:40:20
Speaker
But yeah, that's all 13 movies on that list. Got a couple masterpieces on there, like Rob Zombie's Halloween 2. so Yo, that was not a masterpiece.
00:40:31
Speaker
What are you doing, man? We have to save it for that. We have to save it. We can't get into it. You got my blood boiling right now.
00:40:43
Speaker
We're already clashing with of this episode. How dare you say that? How dare you? This is a healthy clash. you know well I got to rewatch Rob Zombie's Halloween 2 before I can really go to the mat for that one.
00:40:58
Speaker
I hope you hate it this time around. I really hope you hate it. Oh, man. But yeah, Rory Culkin, he's fucking hitting home runs throughout this movie. David Arquette as Dewey.
00:41:12
Speaker
How you feeling about David Arquette, his return in this one? I loved his return. i i just love Dewey as a character. he's just He has like that little goofy sense about him in the first one, not really in the second one.
00:41:30
Speaker
the third one,
00:41:32
Speaker
Everyone was just a little goofy in there. This one, you see him trying to, like you said, you know, I'm a big boy now. got this big boy job. And, you know, I have to make sure everyone in this town is protected while literally everything is just like crumpling beneath him.
00:41:51
Speaker
and i I just find the relationship between him and Deputy Hicks just so amusing because you see he's just like you know talking to her as normal Her, she's like really tuned into the job and then subtly flirting with him But, you know, he's being loyal to Gail, even though you see they have like a rocky relationship right now. He's still being loyal to Gail, but you get Judy Hicks with her weird lemon squares. Who eats lemon squares? Do you like lemon squares? you like anything lemon flavored?
00:42:36
Speaker
I would eat a lemon squirt if it was in front of me. I had a lemon pie the other day. It wasn't the only pie. I had a slice of every pie, but lemon pie was included.
00:42:47
Speaker
Lemon pie sounds disgusting. a lemon square sounds disgusting. i like the lemon pie. It was pretty good. I wish I had a lemon square right here in front of me. I'd eat it right now on my- i had a feeling you would like lemon squares because you like Raisinets. You like the the weird people candy.
00:43:07
Speaker
I mean, I'm not reaching for lemon. That's not my first one, but if it's the only treat there, I'm not going to complain about it. I'm going to say thank you. Let me have two, please.
00:43:19
Speaker
I don't know how much more of this split we can have here, but we'll keep on going. i went to see This is Spinal Tap in theaters a couple weeks ago. re-release. Pretty good.
00:43:33
Speaker
I saw it with my dad. And i actually mixed the Raisinets with the buttery popcorn this time. Gotta say, pretty good. And I can do it every time. feels like I'm killing myself when I'm doing it, but pretty good.
00:43:45
Speaker
You're killing yourself because you're putting a dried up grape in your system. I mean, it helps old people with digestive issues. So, I mean, what do you want from me?
00:43:56
Speaker
Anyway, before we get into old age there.
00:44:02
Speaker
So, um yeah, I quite like Dewey in this movie. he I enjoyed him. I feel like there wasn't too much of him. i was reading complaints of people saying, like, why isn't Dewey, like, as wacky as he was?
00:44:17
Speaker
I'm glad to see that he wasn't fucking wacky 11 years later. I would be like, oh, my God, this guy hasn't grown up. Why is Gale still with him? He's a bit more grown up in this one, though. And I do really like ah what they did with his character. I like that he's like sparsely used, too.
00:44:35
Speaker
I like that Sidney isn't all over this thing. Because at a certain point, like in the finale moments where it's Sidney and Jill facing off against each other in the hospital, there was a point where I was like...
00:44:49
Speaker
I think I'm done with Sidney Prescott, and I feel like this franchise needs to move away from these core characters a little bit. I don't know if they're really going to do that in five, but I was kind of feeling that a little bit at the end. Like this franchise, I hope that this is kind of the end of a lot of these characters' journeys.
00:45:09
Speaker
so I have a question for you since we're still on subject of Gale in Sydney. so i saw video review, i believe it was from thirty c films on YouTube on Scream 4. So when he was going over like his opinion on it, the scene with Dewey and Sidney, they're just at Jill's house and they're talking on the couch.
00:45:36
Speaker
And she's asking about you know him and Gail. And he's basically saying you know they're in like a rocky patch in their marriage. But then he quotes Sidney from her book.
00:45:49
Speaker
I love that because it shows you know he he likes to read, and you know he when he does read something that is very meaningful to him, he does you know savor it, and he likes to kind of live by it in a way, or you know throw it in Gail's face.
00:46:08
Speaker
I did hear from 3C Films He had stated that, you know, that scene right there, their little eye contact moment, he felt like there was like a little spark between them.
00:46:23
Speaker
What did you think of that? Did you pick up on any of that? Because I didn't. No, I didn't pick up on that. I it's sometimes watch 3C films, and I like the guy and his opinions usually, but I don't know where he's getting that one.
00:46:39
Speaker
Dewey, like, Sidney is Dewey's, like, and they don't explicitly say this in the movies, but that's Dewey's basically, like, last connection to his sister who died in the first movie.
00:46:52
Speaker
Mm-hmm. They've been through it since the beginning. he goes to check on her in college. He goes right to her. It doesn't surprise me that he would read her book. He really looks out for Sydney, and especially in the moment where like they're tracing the phone call to the car, and Sydney's like, everybody stay back, and Dewey's like,
00:47:13
Speaker
I don't remember exactly word for word what he says to her, but he's like, Sydney, you're not going to want to like get involved. He's always trying to put himself in front of the danger for everybody else.
00:47:25
Speaker
He does that with Gail. He really doesn't want her to get involved. And when she gets hurt, he's like, there's no more doing this separately. Like we do this. together even though he was the reason why they did it separately he puts himself in front of the danger for everybody else and i know i'm kind of getting a little off topic but no i don't think that there's really any kind of connection outside of an older brother i care about you deeply we are bonded through this forever type of thing Yeah, I didn't get that either. She even calls him like a surrogate big brother in the second one when they're on the college campus and everyone saw her going to talk to him when he did go check up on her.
00:48:11
Speaker
Because, yeah, he probably does view her like a little sister too. Like this was my little sister's best friend. So now I feel even more obligated to look out for her.
00:48:23
Speaker
And yeah, like you said, that's his last connection to his sister. So yeah, at least we can agree on that. And, you know, i guess friendly disagree on everything else.
00:48:35
Speaker
I think there's other things we can agree on. Like, okay, so I've got a list of the kills and who was behind the mask at the time of every kill. So we can skip straight to Olivia. Yeah. So it's Jill and her friend Kirby.
00:48:55
Speaker
I loved Kirby. Kirby was a great character. Great performance from that actress too. But it's Jill and Kirby on the phone with Ghostface.
00:49:05
Speaker
I really like that Jill... It felt like very smart character work from Charlie and Jill to make sure that Jill is around and receiving calls from Ghostface while all of this is happening so she can't really be...
00:49:24
Speaker
as implicated they the screenplay work and like the work between uh i forgot the writer's name again kevin williamson it's very tight doing the proper things to really throw you off of these two characters trails especially jill's trail but so Jill and Kirby receive a phone call from Ghostface, and he's basically like, I'm in the the closet.
00:49:51
Speaker
And he's in the closet, actually, from other friend who's across the street. And he comes out and brutally murders her. So I guess like the first thing i have to say in general about like the kills in this movie...
00:50:06
Speaker
They show a lot of blood. This movie has a lot of time to really linger on the deaths, and I feel like it's all the better for it. The kills in this movie are the most powerful, I'd say, in the franchise, because it goes to what Wes Craven was saying in the first movie.
00:50:24
Speaker
They had to cut... a lot they had to cut away right after somebody would be getting stabbed and you wouldn't get to see the look that they would give ghost face and it's not necessarily olivia but rebecca in the parking garage when she gets stabbed there's a wide shot it's her looking right at ghost faces face and you get the full death all the blood everything and i was like it's There is a power to it. Wes Craven was right. And it is something that it feels like these movies haven't had up until this point.
00:50:58
Speaker
I think we can probably agree on that. i mean, what are your thoughts? No, that's true. When I was watching this for this episode, once they killed Olivia, was like, damn, this is like the death scene in Terrifier 2 or the bedroom scene in Terrifier 2 with all the blood everywhere. pretty relentless.
00:51:21
Speaker
Right. Ghostface feels pretty mean in this one. He does. Even just some of the shit that he says to them on the phone, uh uh in this one and in part five it's it's definitely taking a darker turn with uh what he says and i like that uh his his now I'm going to get his name wrong. Roger L. Jackson, right?
00:51:51
Speaker
I like that he still didn't meet any of the cast when he was you know speaking as Ghostface, just so that can kind of like add to...
00:52:08
Speaker
the intensity and unease of every scene so i and in all the films too so i did appreciate that but yeah it's definitely a lot more darker in here it is and like olivia's death one of my favorite moments i mean she's getting really like brutalized and bloody from ghost face in that moment but a really nice touch i found myself rewinding it just because i felt like it was really well done.
00:52:38
Speaker
Sydney runs across the street and is trying to get into the house. She grabs a plant and throws it through the window. And right after she shatters that window, it cuts to ghost face in the second floor, shattering that window with Olivia's body.
00:52:54
Speaker
As she's, he's like draping it over and he like points the knife at them. Kind of like, I'm going to do this to you. And ghost faces right out of there. So we know right then and there, that's Rory.
00:53:06
Speaker
Culkin's character, Charlie, committing that murder because Jill is accounted for. And also the Rebecca murder, too, that follows in the parking garage, which I felt was a very like very good sequence.
00:53:22
Speaker
That's also Charlie from what I'm reading off of this death list. Wait, wouldn't Rebecca's killer be Jill, though? Because Charlie and Robbie were...
00:53:33
Speaker
in the parking lot with all the news crew talking to gail when everyone was at the hospital i feel like that was moments later i tried to keep track of it along with this list and it felt like as i was watching it it kind of checked out because when ghost face was committing some type of crime it always felt like the other character was accounted for in some sense, or that they were in like two separate locations. Like it becomes more apparent when Gail is, uh, Gail is fighting ghost face at the stabathon.
00:54:13
Speaker
And then moments later, the cops get killed by ghost face at Jill's house. It's pretty easy to, in that moment, really separate the two and be like, okay, these are the two characters placed where the ghost face murders were.
00:54:27
Speaker
yeah Rebecca, I feel like Charlie may show up later. I'm not completely sure though. Who was after Rebecca? Gail's altercation with Ghostface at the Stabathon. What did you think about all the Stabathon stuff?
00:54:43
Speaker
Again, why couldn't we have something like that from our high school? why We should have been the ballsy ones to just initiate that shit because all of that is so cool. I would love to be with a group of people who is like...
00:55:01
Speaker
yeah, let's watch all the Scream films or all the Halloween films or like something like that. and They legit decorated a fucking barn just for that party.
00:55:14
Speaker
Even though there's a killer out, all these teenagers filling... know, invincible, still go out and watch this shit. So I don't know. I love that scene. And just seeing Gail trying to go in and act like, you know, she's a teenager, so she could put all of her cameras up.
00:55:33
Speaker
I like that scene. i thought it was funny how yeah um yeah um it all panned out, though. I like Gail's little walk that she does after she puts on the ghost face mask. Is that Gail that does that, right?
00:55:48
Speaker
Yeah, she's like bobbing her head and like giving thumbs up and everything. Yeah, because it's all one shot. I want to say it's one shot with Kirby on the phone. And as Kirby walks by, then you see Gail coming upstairs and putting the mask on or something like that.
00:56:03
Speaker
I will say our version of that, we had something similar. We didn't do the movies, but I mean, we threw like local shows. We would have shows at people's houses, comic book shops, sure wherever ah we were able to. I would say that was our version because not a lot of people I know had the same high school experience we did with going to local shows and throwing them. my We like performed in our high school a couple times.
00:56:27
Speaker
Yeah, and it would always bother me because someone was always fighting with someone. So when I'd be like, oh are you going to go to the to the show with me on this Friday, the Saturday, whatever they're like, well, is so and so going to be there?
00:56:43
Speaker
i don't know. Just go for the fucking show. Go for the music. and i would literally have to beg people because I didn't want to go by myself. But I felt like the people that were regularly going didn't really like me.
00:56:58
Speaker
So I wish I had kind of like a different experience with that. But yeah, at least we had local shows. That's unfortunate. I'm sorry you had that feeling. ah Yeah, I mean, people around that time kind of sucked. Hopefully everybody's grown up since then.
00:57:15
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's they're actually trying to throw our, what, 15-year reunion now, and oh I am not going to that. exactly.
00:57:30
Speaker
I just watched Scream 4. When you return to your old town, the events that you experience start to happen again. i don't want that to happen. Exactly. i don't need to be traumatized again. Fuck that. Oh, man.
00:57:45
Speaker
But yeah, Stabathon, thought that was a pretty cool sequence. It wasn't my favorite in the movie just because I knew what they were doing. I was like, I get it. They're setting up the party at the end because two of them beforehand did the party thing. So they're going to be subversive. And this is going to be almost like a false ending, kind of.
00:58:09
Speaker
And it which it it ended up being it was still a pretty exciting sequence. I knew Gail wasn't going to die. And it did set up a pretty like cool thing later. She gets stabbed in the shoulder and that's the giveaway.
00:58:24
Speaker
So like Charlie stabs her in the shoulder and he must have went back to Jill and be like, yeah, I got Gail Weathers in the shoulder. And then Jill, that's kind of what spoils, like, lets Dewey on to her at the end.
00:58:36
Speaker
But, yeah, right after Stabathon, we get the death of Deputy Haas and Deputy Anthony Perkins. I really enjoyed these two cops, and I kind of knew they were going to die.
00:58:50
Speaker
I mean Perkins died in such a horrific way a knife to the head and he's bleeding out and he's just like fuck Bruce Willis just because he's the only cop that like doesn't die and movies but yeah i I thought those cops were great and again I knew they were gonna die they had good death scenes though at least it sucked to see him go Yeah, I didn't think that at all. um um i I kind of wish we had more scenes with them to be the you know comedic relief in here.
00:59:27
Speaker
You only get like one or two, just one main one where they're just like talking in the car like, okay, I'll be back. Wait, I'm not supposed to say that, am i and Their death scenes were just...
00:59:41
Speaker
I don't know, weird to me. like Anthony Perkins getting out. like him? No, like him just like getting stabbed in his head and then he's able to like function enough to get out of his car and to still try to like you know fight to the death and then falls and dies.
01:00:02
Speaker
Didn't work for me. Oh, man, that worked for me. I feel like these characters die too quickly in the horror movies. Charlie comments on it when he stabs Kirby. He's like, yeah, you don't die as fast as you do in the movies, which I think might like mean... It did mean something, actually, because Sidney... It's kind of a setup for Sidney not dying, but I saw some casting for future Scream movies, so I'm wondering if Kirby's going to come back in some capacity.
01:00:33
Speaker
Yeah, I ah ah kind of did like, you know, reminded me of a chicken getting its head cut off type of thing where he gets a knife to the head and he's got a little bit of life left in him to get out a comedic bit.
01:00:47
Speaker
I mean, this movie I said is kind of lighter on comedy. It's a bit darker, especially in its comedic moments. And I did appreciate it when it went into the comedy and when it went into the meta nature. It didn't feel obnoxious with the meta references this time around. Because, I mean, I feel like while the first Scream movie is pretty bulletproof, by like the third or fourth rewatch, I feel like the meta references, starts to feel a little dated at a certain point.
01:01:24
Speaker
And I mean, this one too. I mean, they're referencing Saw as a new movie. Yeah, and here they don't go too crazy on it. You see, again, a lot of similarities, and then they do try to make a few meta jokes, but it's not obnoxious, like you're saying. and I forgot which review i was watching for this movie, but they kind of referenced the clothes again. You know how-
01:01:54
Speaker
some of the killers are typically wearing like a blue shirt like how uh in the first one Billy Loomis had like that blue button-up shirt at the end of the film and then you know in here you have uh sid not Sydney, Jill and Charlie both wearing like their flannels. So that indicates that they're the killers in this scene.
01:02:18
Speaker
And then even with Gail's clothes, like you see her just in neutral colors at first, but then once she's trying to get back into her reporting self, she's wearing like those bright ass colors. Like now she's wearing a hot pink or a neon pink suit in here which god cut my soul in half that was way too girly but yeah so i at least like that they kind of went that way with the wardrobe too
01:02:48
Speaker
Yeah, I've always had an appreciation for the the wardrobe that these movies have going on. Yeah, and basically after those two cops die, then Jill's mom gets a knife to the back of the head. And so this is Jill delivering these murders right here because Charlie's over at Stabathon trying to kill Gail right now.
01:03:09
Speaker
And... Man, so yeah, Jill killed her mom. like What a fucking asshole. Right? right So shitty to do. Exactly. When the reveal happened, and yeah, watching it the second time, I'm like, that's Jill killing her mom. That's pretty fucked up.
01:03:24
Speaker
All for the gramme. all for the the gram Oh, God, I want to get into that a little bit more. Are there any other kills before? well, Kirby, but... That's the last kill before the whole ending, and I figured we could just discuss the ending as a whole like separately from this kill segment we were doing.
01:03:44
Speaker
Yeah, so Charlie is the one that does kill Kirby. And I feel bad for her because she does finally open up and is like, yeah, you know, i dig you. and then and And then he bitches like, oh, yeah, you know, we've been in school together this long and now you notice me? Like, shut the fuck up, grow a pair. I like her interaction, though.
01:04:06
Speaker
with With him killing her? No, like beforehand when she's kind of confessing that she likes him, they sprinkle it a little bit throughout the movie. Like Jill's like, hey, I think Charlie likes you, which makes me think like Jill is in on all these killings and she's in on it with Charlie. So she's trying to to do a little something here. I don't know what Jill's end game is with that telling Kirby that Charlie likes her.
01:04:37
Speaker
But when they're, like complimenting each other like uh charlie like compliments her movie taste he like refers to her being sexy and then looks at jill and jill laughs and looks back at him and there's little reactions that these two are sharing throughout this whole conversation that i was just eaten up the whole second time around I wish I paid more attention to that a scene because I can't really visualize it right now.
01:05:08
Speaker
yeah I don't know. that That's a good fact to pick up, like her just like telling Kirby that. kiby that yeah, I like seeing their, you know, their friendship, relationship, whatever, because you can see, you know, she teases him a lot. And obviously, she did like him.
01:05:28
Speaker
But everyone loved Kirby in here, or they thought she was so hot in here or whatever. I loved her character. i just wish they, like costume design, they you know made her character look a little more her age. I think that the haircut she was sporting was not flattering for her at this age. Really? I like the haircut.
01:05:53
Speaker
I didn't like some people can you know some people it looks nice. I think if it wasn't like, like kind of twisted back in like whatever design she had, it was just if it was just like comb to the side or whatever, it would have looked fine.
01:06:09
Speaker
But I don't know. I think that like that haircut aged her significantly in here. I liked her whole look actually. And I, I really enjoyed her performance too. There's one performance of hers that's like ingrained in my mind, which is kind of why I really like everything about her, but, her and, uh, Charlie are going to kiss. Then it's interrupted by Jill's boyfriend or ex-boyfriend Trevor walking in.
01:06:37
Speaker
Charlie gets up and storms out. And, uh, what's it called? He kind of, of, ah Trevor realizes that he interrupted something. And then the look on Jill's face of irritation, she like tenses up, leaves her hands out stiff.
01:06:54
Speaker
And it's just, I'm like, that's such a believable, like the body language felt so believable. And she's like, who invited you get out of my house. And I, I really enjoyed that interaction. And then,
01:07:06
Speaker
Right after that, I'm guessing that a death, we kind of like skipped over a little bit. I didn't even realize I'm guessing that's when Charlie goes and puts on the ghost face thing and murders Robbie, uh,
01:07:19
Speaker
I remember the Robbie line from the trailer. I want to say where he's like, you can't kill me because I'm gay. And I remember like playing very jokey in the trailer, but I, I kind of liked it in this movie. Actually, he's like, you can't kill me because I'm gay. And he's like, does that do anything? Does that mean anything?
01:07:41
Speaker
Even that that part on its own, I didn't care for. i liked how, you know, him, he was, you know, pretty drunk outside, just doing his own thing, hoping that his friend is going to get lucky, whatever.
01:07:56
Speaker
That's a good friend right there. And he's trying to put on like his little headset with the camera on it, and he's too drunk to realize that it's on backwards.
01:08:08
Speaker
And then once he flips it forward, that's when you see Ghostface appear on the camera right in front of him. What a dick to kill your best friend. Like, man, yeah, these killers in here, they're pretty brutal. You kill your mom, you kill your best friend. Wow, no loyalty in here except from Dewey.
01:08:26
Speaker
Every other character in here, they're just like, nah, fuck you. It's all about me. It just goes to show how how people change. you know He has a girlfriend. Now Jill is supposed to be his girlfriend. He was like, you know I'm and getting some ass right now, so I don't need a friend anymore.
01:08:44
Speaker
but so I didn't fully love them tying Charlie up like the beginning of the first movie. uh the i kind of enjoyed the cut to black and then it's like it shows dewey on his way there then cut to black again and he's tied up i don't appreciate how quickly um like they manage to time up i'm like what are these other characters doing while he's being tied up they're just doing nothing letting all of this happen So I feel like that's a little bit sweaty, but, yeah, the game that they play with, uh, Kirby, I thought it was pretty cool. And yeah, Kirby's death. I felt it. I didn't want her to go. And those stabs, like it hurt a little bit.
01:09:32
Speaker
And then after that, I want to say is when the the big plan reveal happens and they've got Trevor tied up. They're telling everything to Sydney about what's going to happen.
01:09:44
Speaker
Trevor gets shot in the fucking genitals and then the head. He gets it really rough. was like, Ghostface is very mean and it's because it's an irresponsible fucking white girl teenager.
01:09:58
Speaker
You know? But... i I really enjoyed this, and I enjoyed the double cross that happens, because the first movie doesn't really play it as a double cross. I don't remember if two was a double cross. I don't think it it is.
01:10:14
Speaker
i enjoyed that this one was a double cross, and Charlie's death scene, I think Rory Culkin really sold it. He gets stabbed in the heart, and it's like, that wasn't a part of the plan, and then he is like,
01:10:26
Speaker
two really just upsetting and like visceral reactions, and then he just falls over and dies. and It really worked for me.
01:10:37
Speaker
i agree. i felt bad for him when Jill just up and started killing him, and he's like, wait, what? Because it's it's just like, damn, you are letting yourself be vulnerable enough two like I'm not really sympathizing with him, but I'm just looking at it from this perspective. like You let yourself be vulnerable enough to talk to this girl.
01:11:02
Speaker
Clearly, she was the mastermind behind it, so she talked you into, like yeah, you know this guy cheated on me, and I'm tired of my cousin having all the attention.
01:11:13
Speaker
I want to kill her. And in turn, I want to kill this guy too. We should kill everybody, whatever. She's probably also in his ear being like, hey, Charlie or Kirby doesn't notice you.
01:11:25
Speaker
Like, yeah, I'll help you get back at Kirby. Also probably whispering too, you know, like sweet nothings to him. Basically like, yeah, it'll be me and you together. Like we're doing this kind of like getting, trying to like plant a seed in his head. Like we're going to have like a relationship with each other too, because he even tells Sydney, you know, but in this one, Randy gets the girl here and then he just tries to like make out with a Jill.
01:11:54
Speaker
So yeah. you do feel bad for him because then you think, okay, he finally has a girl that understands him and appreciates him. And, you know, he can be himself with her and then she just up and kills him once she gets what she needs out of him.
01:12:12
Speaker
So he does go out in a shitty way too. Yeah, i really like the this time Randy gets the girl line that surprisingly worked for me. I thought it was very effective and it satisfied what we didn't really get in scream to, which is Randy making it all the way to the end of the of the movie. He gets killed like somewhere off, like in the middle.
01:12:36
Speaker
But then, uh. Yeah, she shoots Sydney and Sydney falls to the ground and she's like, okay, the cops are going to come. I'm going to make it look like I was the victim too. I'm going to get all the fame that I never got. It was always Sydney this, Sydney that. No one gave a fuck about what was going on in my life.
01:12:54
Speaker
And she like very like psychotically and twist in like such a twisted way like has grabs Trevor's hand and has him rip her hair out, runs into a wall and like stabs herself in the shoulder with a knife, bashes her face into a glass picture, jumps through a fucking glass table.
01:13:15
Speaker
It's pretty wild. And so I guess there was an alternate ending that they were going to go for. my buddy Doug was telling me that, uh,
01:13:27
Speaker
that They were originally not going to kill Jill, and Sidney was going to die, and Jill was going to make it to the next movie and get away with everything.
01:13:39
Speaker
And the next Scream movie was going to be... Jill's POV and other people start imitating the ghost face killers and now there's two separate ghost face killers happening and we're following one of the ghost faces throughout all of this thought that would have been an interesting take fortunately data they went with a different ending and like Wes Craven passed away not too long after this movie came out this was his second to last no this was his last movie I think
01:14:12
Speaker
He passed away four years after this one. But I thought that would have been an interesting ending. We didn't get that. if I mean, what are your thoughts on all that? And do you want to break down the ending for us? Yeah, i I'm actually happy that they they killed off Jill because i don't know I don't know how I would have felt with that alternate ending we did get that. Just because I do like the characters we get to follow in the next two films, so...
01:14:43
Speaker
Yeah, I'm happy we didn't take that route. But yeah, the ending, to kind of sum it up we follow Jill to the hospital. Everyone thinks she's a hero. She kind of gets what she wants, but she basically shoots herself in the foot because she, like Dewey does tell, or when she's talking to Dewey, she says, you know, I wish I could write a book with Gail. We could talk about her matching shoulder wounds, whatever.
01:15:11
Speaker
then Dewey reveals to Jill that Sydney is still alive and she might make it. And Jill tries to go and kill Sydney.
01:15:23
Speaker
Dewey talks to Gail and they realize, you know, Jill shouldn't have known that Gail got stabbed in the shoulder. And so Sydney and Jill are kind of like,
01:15:35
Speaker
duking it out and my god that fucking knee to uh sydney's stomach to open up her stitches oh my god that i wanted to cry watching that because then they show the blood just seeping through her gown that was neve campbell's best performance in the movie i'd say Yeah, like just seeing like her blood coming through and then just hearing her screams in here, was that made it so much more difficult to watch because the way she screamed in the first Scream film, you hear her voice a lot. like She does actually scream.
01:16:15
Speaker
and Then I feel like in the second and third one, she doesn't scream as much. There's not a lot of range in her screaming, but in this one, like There was some pain in that, so they I hated that part. I hated that part so fucking much. It was a tough watch, that that knee to the stomach.
01:16:35
Speaker
All of this, though, I didn't expect this movie to go in this direction. i found it pretty refreshing, though, like the shifts that kept happening from the moment where Jill was like, I'm going to start injuring myself to when we're in the hospital and Jill's crying. and She's like... ah I think they killed this person. Did they kill this person? Oh, my God.
01:16:58
Speaker
And she's, like, really selling it. And the cameras, as they're flashing in her eyes, too, as the ambulance is taking her to the hospital, I love that she's, like, eating it all up. She loves the fame.
01:17:11
Speaker
But, yeah, that final confrontation, i thought it was pretty good. I didn't fully love it. There were some, like... moment like just some lines that felt like very written Sydney says like you're not gonna get away with all of this and I'm like okay like no one would say this you'd be fucking just stopping this chick you know you wouldn't be giving giving you know telling them their moral dilemma right now but uh Yeah, and who ends up popping her in the head? Who gets Jill?
01:17:44
Speaker
She beats Stewie with a bedpan. She does, and what was it? She does, what's her name? Judy Hicks comes in. She tries to help out, but then I think Jill shoots her, and jill shoots her And then fucking Sydney, I think she gets that, what is it called? The defibrillator? Is that what it is? Defibrillator. Yeah, that. I can't say that word. But yeah, she gets cranks that the down. That's another written thing where they're like, clear.
01:18:17
Speaker
Yeah, like that line, I hated that. Oh, can I get one last word in? Clear. and Then Sydney says, like oh don't like you you forgot that the main rule, don't fuck with the original or something. It's like, okay, you killed her. yeah youre You're done.
01:18:35
Speaker
one would say that line. Who are you saying that to? Exactly. You're saying that for the audience. That line sucks. That is a pretty bad line to go out on.
01:18:47
Speaker
It was so bad. And then she was the one that gets to shoot Jill in the forehead because she does try to come up at the time when they're like, oh, you know, Randy always said or or whoever said they're always behind you or something.
01:19:02
Speaker
So, yeah. And then you're just stuck with like the main three, the legacy characters again. And it's like, okay, cool. But at that point too, just looking at them, yes, obviously they are physically tired from like all this shit because, you know, they were just like stabbed or their ass was beaten and, you know, whatever.
01:19:24
Speaker
They're all injured. but at the same time too you're looking at them like damn man these characters are aging they have to be so fucking fed up with all this shit and they did survive another movie but you do feel bad for them and then that's pretty much how the movie ends off but yeah it was interesting send off with this one Yeah, and they take another pretty long break after this. Like I said, I want to say this is Wes Craven's final movie he did before he passed away.
01:19:59
Speaker
And then it's about an 11-year gap before Scream 5 comes out. And then they crank Scream 6 out a year later. So it sounds like Scream 6 may suffer from how rushed it was, but I'm and what like i'm wondering what Scream 5 is all about, and I'm still pretty excited for I know some of the cast that's coming for this, I think it sounds pretty promising.
01:20:29
Speaker
It is just, you know, unfortunate. I wonder if you feel the absence of Wes Craven going forward in these things. And it is unfortunate, the timing, but I'm hoping these don't feel like cash grabs because it looks like right when he passed away, that's when they did the TV show.
01:20:49
Speaker
was probably because they didn't have to get any approval from Wes Craven. And then... you know, six years after the show, I'm sure Scream would have come out earlier if it wasn't for the pandemic, but, or Scream 5 would have come out earlier if it wasn't for the pandemic, but I hope there's still some heart in this franchise because this feels like Wes Craven's heart was in it and it's a very, I'd say like lovely send off for him, not only his involvement with the franchise, but just him as a filmmaker.
01:21:23
Speaker
He created two legacy franchises and he got to go out on what I think is a very, very strong entry. And if it's not the best movie, I think it's the best sequel.
01:21:38
Speaker
Yeah, they do pay their respects in my eyes very well. and the next one you you do feel his loss, obviously, and then with a lot of behind-the-scenes work, you can see that you know everyone was feeling his loss, but they do have details in there that you know honor his memory. and I believe even Nev Campbell,
01:22:04
Speaker
was hesitant on playing a role in here just because of Wes Craven not being alive anymore. But the directors were telling her, you know, we're trying to pay as much respect as we can to honor Wes Craven. So I actually do enjoy Scream 5. So I'm so happy you realized you were watching Scream 5 and you were able to just shut it off.
01:22:31
Speaker
So I'm excited to jump into that one. I only got to the menu screen of it. and What made me realize is the menu screen is the picture that I used for our Morbid Curiosity Scream 5 picture. and I was like, oh fuck, did I use the Scream 4 poster for Scream 5?
01:22:51
Speaker
and Then I was like, oh no, I actually have Scream 5 in right now. Oh shit. Yeah. wes craven uh a couple movies before this before he passed away he did uh one called red eye with killian murphy and i forgot the actress's name doctor strange's wife ah ah rachel mcadams uh i know you were saying you're a killian murphy fan so i would recommend red eye to you it's a nice like horror thriller i have actually seen that that's a good movie
01:23:23
Speaker
Yeah, the next two movies we got coming up in the franchise were done by the Ready or Not and Abigail filmmakers. So, I mean, I know they can make good movies. i have my criticisms of Abigail, but I was a big fan of Ready or Not. Ready or Not is really good. I i was surprised at how much I liked that film. So, any final thoughts on Scream 4 before we leave it behind?
01:23:50
Speaker
no i I mean, I rated this five stars on Letterboxd. Go follow me on Letterboxd at Nicholas Sewers if you haven't already. I just think this movie is great, and I didn't mean to throw any shade or criticism at any of the movies that came before this throughout the review.
01:24:08
Speaker
I liked all of them. I just feel like this one is a big improvement on areas where the other movies may have been lacking a little bit. And there's something the entertainment and rewatch value of this one.
01:24:25
Speaker
And the first one. But this one in particular, i just found it to be great and wildly entertaining from beginning to end. The mysteries and all these things always work. It especially works in this one.
01:24:38
Speaker
I found the reveal to be... one of the strongest, if not the strongest, it comes to the characters they picked and their motivation. I think this one has the best rewatch value out of all of them so far. I've watched every movie at least two times for the reviews that we're doing. And this one was the one where I was like, oh, it's all really lining up for me as a viewer.
01:25:02
Speaker
It all really, it feels clean and calculated the most precisely. So yeah, i really enjoyed this one and I thought this was a really great episode.
01:25:13
Speaker
Yeah, this was a great episode and i i had a good time watching this film. Not my favorite. I know you like it but am excited to hear your thoughts on Scream 5 when we jump into it because that, I would say, is one of my favorites just because we have the lovely Jenna Ortega being one of the main characters in there.
01:25:39
Speaker
So... Let's fucking go with Scream 5 next week. Hell yeah, guys. We hope you enjoyed this one. Hope you guys, you know, give Scream 4 another chance if you're feeling down on it. And we've been Morbid Curiosities.
01:25:55
Speaker
Yeah.