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Across The Spider-Verse Crossover w MCU Podcast
2.8k Plays2 years ago
Matthew Carroll of the Marvel Cinematic Universe Podcast joins us to do a full breakdown of Spider-Man: Across The Spider-Verse ripe with reactions, theories, speculation, laughs and more!
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Transcript
Introduction and Crossover
00:00:00
Speaker
On another exciting episode of the Animation Deliberation podcast, we're flipping through the multiverse to talk about Spider-Man across the Spider-Verse right after these ads. We have no control over. Sing along if you know the words. One, two, three, it's time for animation deliberation. A conversation and a celebration of our favorite action animated series. Yeah.
00:00:24
Speaker
Yeah! Welcome back to another episode of Animation Deliberation, the podcast where we take action animation and cartoon seriously, but not too seriously. We are your hosts. I am Zuhara Lee. I'm Jay Spidey, St. Clair. And I am Andrew Rogers.
00:00:38
Speaker
And joining us on this exciting episode is one of the co-hosts of the Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast, Papa Panda himself, Matthew Carroll. How you doing, bud? Man, I'm great. I'm really, really great. It's great to be here. Great to be here on the animation deliberation. You guys are just so much fun and so high energy and ready to tackle this stuff. And this movie was fun. Let's talk about it.
00:00:58
Speaker
I still remember when the first movie came out and when the Spider-Man video game came out, you would just talk every week on the cast about how you needed some loophole to do an episode about this stuff. So I'm glad that you started a whole network so that you have a whole show that is your loophole for these types of points.
00:01:20
Speaker
This was a grand scheme all along. This is the only reason the show was born, was for this moment. Exactly. I really encouraged you guys to start an animation show just so when it came around time for the sequel, I could hop on. It's all about a big con. That's why he's Papa Panda. He plotted this all along. And it's worth- The hang of the stranded pandas.
00:01:39
Speaker
Yeah, it's worth mentioning that Across the Spider-Verse has a lot of synergy, the uniting of a lot of different universes and some crossover and whatnot. So it's worth mentioning this is a crossover between Animation Deliberation and the Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast. And Matthew and I recorded a little 15-minute episode where we discussed five possible connections with the MCU that we came across in Across the Spider-Verse.
00:02:07
Speaker
Encourage you to go check that one out as well if you're listening to this first. But listen to us first. Yeah. Because you're obviously here. You don't need to pause and go like, hi. I mean, canonically, that other one's first. But whatever. Get you out of here. We have to keep the cannon intact. I do appreciate that. That's true. It's like the argument, do you watch the MCU movies in release order or timeline order? Just stick with where you are right now.
00:02:35
Speaker
I'm an advocate for release order, but whatever floats your boat, whatever works. That's the only way to do it. Same. Same. Yeah. That being said, we got a lot to
Non-Spoiler Reactions and Pacing
00:02:46
Speaker
talk about. There was a lot going on in this movie, but before we hit it, does anybody have any quick spoiler free thoughts that we want to get through?
00:02:54
Speaker
I defer to you, gentlemen, because I already had the opportunity to do an instant reaction with John Irons right out of the theater. So also want to plug that. Check that out to hear from the man, the myth, the legend from Captain Game Show. So I open the floor to you all. What are your non-spoiler reactions and thoughts?
00:03:11
Speaker
Um, so I love this movie. It is really wonderful. Tons of surprises that I just did not expect. Um, I like, I hoped and dreamed for, but did not fully expect. And I absolutely love that. Um, I think it maintains the high, high quality of the first one. I do find it a little slower than the first one. Um, I think there are some, uh, it takes its time a little more. The first one, one of my things I love about it is how
00:03:41
Speaker
Thanks.
00:03:42
Speaker
just absolutely slap-dash it is, and you just feel like chaos at all moments. Miles does not know what he's doing in life or as Spider-Man, and everything around him is just chaos all the time. And even his mentors don't really know what they're doing. So it's just this chaos, chaos, chaos. And this one took its time and had moments of reflection that I think in the end will add to the tapestry of this series, but I did find them in the theater.
00:04:12
Speaker
draining me a little bit. I found myself hitting the wall of those scenes where they're having rooftop conversations and being like, this is supposed to be super frenetic. Why are we not moving? I came in ready to bounce around for two hours. But I think in the end, it's going to end up being a more mature trilogy because of it. But I still, I felt that was lacking, but I don't think it will be in the long run.
00:04:38
Speaker
You were on a caffeine high in a yoga studio. Yeah. I think it's part of the problem is I didn't take my Adderall. So when it started doing things, I had to actually focus for a minute. I was like, oh, no. Oh, no. I got to listen to people talk? I was expecting this movie to be my Adderall.
00:04:59
Speaker
The movie did take Adderall. Yeah. The movie actually focused up. But no, I think this was an incredible movie across the board. I went in with medium expectations. I was like, they can't strike lightning twice. And I think they did. It was very much like, where does the story need to go from here? What can they do to make me care about it being a sequel?
Animation's Impact Across Ages
00:05:21
Speaker
And instead, they made it one of the best sequels that I've ever seen. It ties in so much more than I thought to the first one.
00:05:27
Speaker
And at the end of the day, I think knowing that it's a two-parter was better because I would have been really sad at the end of like, wait, this is it. We're going to end it here. And like, oh, OK, we know it's coming. And I like what you said. It's a trilogy. It's not just an individual thing you can watch by itself. You kind of need everything to go with it. But it's still, it maintained the charm. It maintained the adventure. And it proved to me that superhero fatigue is not real. We were just, if anyone was feeling it, you were just getting tired of
00:05:56
Speaker
lesser superhero, you know, properties, not the spectacular Spider-Man properties, if you will. Yeah, especially with that, there was somebody else I was talking to this morning about how they refused to watch the first movie because it was animated, and it wasn't going to be as fun because it was for kids. And you know, that's exactly why this podcast was born, aside from Papa Panda's plotting.
00:06:23
Speaker
is to, you know, take away that perception that all animated movies are just for kids. Like, this shows like, can you imagine like trying to make this stuff with live action people was insane. But I went into this movie with tempered expectations because I know how Sony operates. And I was worried that with the success of Into the Spider-Verse that they would start
00:06:48
Speaker
just getting too involved in this and putting things that didn't need to be there and et cetera, et cetera. But it was the complete opposite across the Spider-Verse studio stuck to what they were gonna do, what they wanted to do, the storytelling that they know that they were good at, and they used Sony to grab what they needed to make that even better.
00:07:05
Speaker
in regards to the trilogy. This is like the modern day Empire Strikes Back for me with the twist and the storytelling and the intensity and just leaving the theater craving the next one. The only other movie that's the only other trilogy that's done that to me in recent years is Winter Soldier. So I'm very happy. I'm glad that I went in tempered because I was my mind was definitely blown when I walked out.
00:07:28
Speaker
Yeah, I'm as excited for this conversation as I was for the movie because it's a little surprising to hear how tempered expectations were because I know when we did like our most anticipated for the year, this topped the list for all three of us.
Character Development and Box Office Success
00:07:42
Speaker
So I was going in with a lot of hype and the hype is real and it met and exceeded my expectations. I think the
00:07:50
Speaker
Empire Strike Back comparisons are super appropriate tiptoeing around spoilers to address some of the things you mentioned, Matt, about the story slowing down a little bit. I think that needed to happen because this is a
00:08:04
Speaker
Part one, maybe not in title, but in spirit. But I think it did a really good job of having a complete character journey for multiple characters. Actually, I think Gwen and Miles both got kind of complete character arcs in terms of where they start off at the beginning of the movie and where they end on this cliffhanger ending. But I think those slow moments needed to happen in order for it to feel that way and actually be satisfying in its cliffhanger nature. But I'm not alone in the hype.
00:08:35
Speaker
this movie just did 120 million dollars opening weekend here in the United States and it did like 209 million globally so it's already the highest grossing opening of the summer so people are going to see this thing and the fact that it's an animated feature it's the longest animated feature to be released in the United States here like it is a good time to be a fan of animated content it's a great time to be a spider-man fan so I'm riding that high
00:09:01
Speaker
One thing I have to mention because it just got a and Andrew you both mentioned this The fact that it's it's a two-parter I had forgotten that I did not remember this was a two-parter and so that actually really affected my viewing experience because like I got to the big crescendo and I like I'm not I'm not counting points off or anything That's fine. But like got to the crescendo and then it ended and I was like, oh
00:09:27
Speaker
Oh, I forgot this was a part one, part two situation, because they changed that. It's no longer called across Spider-Verse part one. It's called across Spider-Verse. Next one's called Beyond Spider-Verse now. Correct. But it used to be a part, literally part one, part two. And I just, I forgot that. Just completely forgot. And it definitely disappointed me at the end. I was like, no, no. Oh, no. All right. So I'll say one more thing, and then we'll just go into spoiler talk, because I do have something to say on that.
00:09:53
Speaker
One of my concerns that gave my tempered expectations is that I was worried that it was going to be too big and there was going to be too much going on and the fun of it was going to take over good storytelling. But it did a really good job at
00:10:08
Speaker
isolating specific characters and making you care about particular people and like the bigger story within their within like or through their lenses as opposed to just way too much going on at once like you never really felt that way sure you could watch this movie a million times and find something you didn't notice the first time but nothing that really took away like from the viewing experience so from that like let's spoiler warning we've talked about it we're gonna talk about other stuff more and i'm gonna kick it off by saying that
00:10:39
Speaker
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00:10:59
Speaker
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00:11:18
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00:11:41
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00:12:00
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00:12:24
Speaker
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00:13:27
Speaker
All right, so if you guys are still here, clearly you have watched one of the best movies we have ever seen. You have enjoyed this in all of its theatrical beauty. And you were excited for us to talk about it with all the spoilers that it deserves. I do want to start off by talking about the beginning of this movie. Obviously, the expectations were still high despite some of us trying to temper it.
00:13:54
Speaker
If you gave me the first 20 minutes of this movie of Gwen Stacy's background and what happened to her, Peter Parker and the relationship with her dad, like where the credit started, if you were to end the movie right there, I still would have been completely happy just with how emotionally packed and well designed and beautifully placed those first 20 minutes were.
00:14:15
Speaker
starting with Gwen was a bold choice. Like you should even set at the start, let's do it a little different this time as opposed to let's do it one more time. Like they took it on a left hand turn that I loved that they kept that a secret. It wasn't in the trailers that Gwen was going to be important. It was like, Oh, this is still a Miles movie. But then you sat down and they're like, now we have some more tricks up our sleeve this time. And it just
00:14:36
Speaker
The one thing, this is a character driven movie. Like I was nervous when they said Nick Cage was not coming back and John Mulaney like, I'm like, Oh, we don't get spider ham. We don't get Spider-Man noir, you know, who's gonna be at the center. They took a step back so we could get more of these characters at the forefront, not just Gwen, but I know we're gonna talk about plenty of the other spider people. But yeah, it was character driven in so many ways that I was not prepared for and so satisfied with.
00:15:01
Speaker
I actually think that that choice is one of its saving graces. I mentioned the one downside I had for this movie and that being it had a little bit of a slow section and I think if the movie had started with that slow section, it really would have set the movie up for failure.
00:15:18
Speaker
because it needed something at the beginning to really kick it into gear and getting an entire story, like the entire story of Gwen's, not the entire thing, because you go back to the end, but you get a really strong sense of her origin story. Clips that we saw in the first one of Peter dying, we get all the context around those and find out really what happened. And the art style in that section of the movie, Gwen's universe,
00:15:46
Speaker
beautiful they use the um sort of like the painted frames right a la like a romance comic book basically which is very common like the female led uh superhero stories the more relational type stories um in comics and like they use that painted style i just thought it was the way that the world
00:16:06
Speaker
reflected emotions in the way the paint style changed. Beautiful. Absolutely. You beat me to one of my favorite things about it. Color change. That part is just so underappreciated, especially when she comes back and has that heart to heart with her dad. The amount of times the scenery changed in the backgrounds, depending on her tone and what she was feeling and the energy. It was just, it was incredible. Like I said, you could watch this movie a million times and still find something new. And the fact that
00:16:35
Speaker
this genuinely came into people's brains and said that this needs to be a part of it was just such creative. I can't even think of the words for it. It was just beautiful.
00:16:45
Speaker
Yeah, I believe that art style was actually trying to evoke the Spider-Gwyn run in the comics where it's very kind of like watercolor and what kind of stood out to me in addition to like the color palette changing as we were evoking different emotions or tapping into different sentiments is that the scenes would generally start off with like more detail in the background and as time went on and we got focused more on characters, the details kind of got washed away and became less and less clear and you were really focusing on the characters.
00:17:13
Speaker
I think it was the right move to like, again, like talking about how this movie ends off on a cliffhanger. I think starting off with Gwen was the right call. It brought that frenetic energy that you're talking about, Matt. And it also set up the fact that like, yes, Gwen was kind of a
00:17:28
Speaker
participant in the events last time around, but it was really Miles' story. This sets her up to be kind of like a co-protagonist right alongside Miles. It's still his story, but she is such a crucial part of it, and she's got her own journey to go on. But I've watched the movie twice now, and one of the things that stuck out to me the second time around is
00:17:46
Speaker
the score. Her theme especially is so awesome. They have the fight in the museum and it's got her theme going and then you bring in these Renaissance themes as well when you've got that version of the Vulture.
00:18:01
Speaker
It's so cool. It's incredible and also like in addition to just serving her character really well I think with the sweeping scale of the story and like focusing on the spider society like I think it makes sense to use her as the conduit as the introduction to the spider society rather than like starting the movie off with Miles and having to just
00:18:23
Speaker
have that all feel like catch up, like her catching Miles up, like we as the audience already know everything that she knows and Miles can kind of go along as this newcomer. We're not necessarily the newcomers in the same sense. And I think that helped give it a lot of energy because it is a long movie and I didn't really feel the runtime in terms of the pacing, but I think that kind of story structure certainly helped, especially when we do slow down as we catch up with Miles a little bit right after this.
00:18:52
Speaker
Yeah, in regards to runtime, I always have my watch face turned off when I'm in there, because I feel like if you check your time during the movie, you must be pretty bored. So there was a point where I was like, so much has happened right now. How are we going to wrap all this up? There's got to be something else going on. And I'm dying. I'm itching. I'm just like, I just need to see what time it is. I need to know how long it's been. Are we really doing this right now?
00:19:21
Speaker
it got to the point I think like in the past 10 minutes it was like there's gonna be a cliffhanger that there's gonna be a big reveal in a cliffhanger right now and when we got that
00:19:30
Speaker
that other version of Miles and what the story was happening. And when we got to see Uncle Eric and I was like, Oh my God, there's going to be another movie. This isn't over yet. Like I was worried that this was going to be too big. And now I love how big it's getting. This is amazing. Like as it ended, I was like, you guys are doing such a fantastic job saying screw you to anybody who's trying to interfere and is doing what you want and doing a fantastic job.
00:20:00
Speaker
at this like we understand.
00:20:03
Speaker
how important source material is and being able to just sit back, see what works for you and just let nerds be nerds and have a good time putting this stuff together is really, is really paying off between this and Mario and Guardians and just letting these people create and have fun with it and just be their, be their nerdy selves. I'm loving everything that's, that's happening because of this.
00:20:30
Speaker
You saying that this movie was for nerds. They were unabashedly like, if you're not a Spider-Man fan, you're probably not going to enjoy this movie as much as like the rest of us are. But the rest of us got to laugh and cheer and point at 17 different Spider-Men and gasp and just figure all these things out. It was so, so great. And they as always did the attention to detail things, because I had figured out Miles was prowler like 10 minutes before.
00:20:57
Speaker
because he has the design for the claws in the bedroom when Miles first walks in. That's the engineer brain. I saw blueprints on the wall and I was like, wait, that's a thing. That's a thing. It was the prowler glove. I'm like, this Miles is a villain. That's the big ticker. When that happened- I was recognizing soccer players and you're looking at blueprints.
00:21:21
Speaker
Well if it if it uh if it helps I had a similar interaction with the movie with punk spider punk because oh throughout the movie he's he's stealing things that seem random right and he's an anti-fascist and so like
00:21:37
Speaker
See, like, I don't know, there was some part of me that really connected to Spider-Punk, because I'm not a musician, musician, anti-fascist, like whatever. So he's like, he's pulling, he's pulling all this stuff and stealing stuff. And I'm like, no, no, he's building his own watch. Like he's setting stuff up. And then later in the movie, he gives like Gwen a cobbled together watch. And I was like, that's where he was like stealing all Miguel's stuff. Like it wasn't important. And I loved that, like,
00:22:04
Speaker
Yeah, I love that they gave enough to us to figure things out in this very busy movie. You know, that's so cool.
00:22:12
Speaker
I need him and Rocket Raccoon just in a room together for 10 minutes now. Right? Yeah. I can't wait to get more of him. Like I loved Spider-Punk so much. Yeah. Yeah. He was great. Well, we, we've gushed about this movie a lot already, but I do want to like ask a question. Like obviously Matt, it seems like you just answered it with Spider-Punk, but like who was your favorite like new spider person we got or that moment that you were just like, Oh my God, they included this spider person.
00:22:40
Speaker
I was about to say, I know where Zuhaer is going, so I need to get my words in. I'll leave his to him. Spiderpunk, I was not actually prepared to like him. When he first came on, I was like, what's this guy's deal? It's a little too over the top with the art style. And in like 10 minutes when he started going, oh, no, down with the man, anti-fascist, let's just do it our own way. I was like, oh, I love this guy.
00:23:05
Speaker
I didn't realize it until my girlfriend pointed out. She's like, it was when he took off the mask. You saw how handsome he was. I was like, yeah, that was when I fell in love with him, wasn't it? That was the moment that I'm like, dang it. They did it to me. But no, he, he was surprised me because I wasn't I thought Zuhair's favorite was going to be my favorite. But I think spider punk may edge out what we saw. But I will say the honorable mention spider lady, which is the
00:23:31
Speaker
She was only in the background for a brief scene. She's the one with the like steampunk mechanical legs. She's one of the first spider verse comics that they made it was her. And I love her because she doesn't have as much of the powers but she built the legs herself in a steampunk world. And she fights a version of the sinister six that are all like made from old timey machines and I love them. So she's my one like they put her in. Yes, we got this like
00:23:56
Speaker
Hopefully, she plays a bigger part, but I don't think she's ever going to be more than just a background point. Yeah. In terms of, to answer my own question, that one that was like, oh my God, they did that. It was Donald Glover as Aaron Davis as the prowler. I can't believe they did that. But if I'm going to stick to Spider-People, this character did not get any real character development or anything like that. But the fact that he was just there, I really loved that they included the Insomniac Spider-Man because
00:24:25
Speaker
I just got a PS5. I just started playing the Insomniac Spider-Man, the remastered. I'm going to be playing Miles Morales very shortly in preparation for Spider-Man 2. And the way they set that up, it was like, we got video game guys, and you see a couple of different sprites. And he's like, oh, you talking about me? Yeah, we're talking about you.
00:24:45
Speaker
Yeah, I kind of hated the character, but like I really loved that he was there. The Ben Riley Scarlet Spider. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. As voiced by Andy Samberg, which was amazing. You captured in my well-defined musculature, you will not escape. Yeah. That was Andy Samberg? Yeah. That was amazing. That was awesome. Yeah, it was great.
00:25:08
Speaker
And Jack Wade was the Peter Parker from Gwyn's universe, the one that turned into the lizard. Really? Oh, that's cute. That's cute. What's Jack Wade known for? The boys. The boys, Huey. Oh, OK. He's also in Star Trek currently as Boimler. Oh, he's got the perfect voice for Spider-Man.
00:25:27
Speaker
And I mean, if we're gonna call it out quick, it was also Daniel Kaluuya as Spider-Punk, which I didn't even realize the whole time because I forget he's British. Like, that's his normal voice. My name's Obi. I'm not gonna reveal my secret identity to you.
00:25:44
Speaker
Yeah. How do you look even cooler without the mask? I don't know but it works. I mean I just loved how his entire aesthetic like his the way his animation style followed him. I agree that he kind of like made the screen almost too busy but this movie is so busy like the screen is so busy all the time that
00:26:05
Speaker
Like you said, that's why you can watch this so many times and keep getting new things. The little footnotes and stuff. When the movie opened, the first thing that happens, I don't know if you guys caught this, there's a little poof of blue and red with a word in it before the screen comes up.
00:26:23
Speaker
Yes. And I couldn't see what word it was. It was too fast. But like, there's all these, did anybody see what that was? It's in the bottom right hand corner and I was like, what was that? And it was gone. It was like one frame. It was like freaking Tyler Durden stuff that they're like sneaking in to these movies for me to like find little Easter eggs later. And I was just like,
00:26:41
Speaker
Yeah, I thought it was amazing. When you first started bringing that up, I thought you were talking about how it starts the movie off saying that it's approved by the comic code authority, which the first film did as well, which is just a really nice touch as well. Yeah, it is. The one thing like they did the onomatopoeia great, they did the comic panels from the first movie. I didn't think they needed to add anything until we had editors notes like actual comics. I'm like, thank you for having clarifying things in the bottom. That was really appreciated. They did a great job.
00:27:10
Speaker
It's great because like so often we get these things we see on screen. Like if you'd seen Insomniac Spider-Man and you'd been like, Hey, that looks just like Insomniac Spider-Man. That must be a reference to that. But then like we'd have to wait for some producer to tell us the truth. Like, yes, that was a, that was definitely, but it's always like this third party to have it on the street and just be like,
00:27:32
Speaker
This is a reference to the 2020 Insomniac game. I just think it's so much fun to be in the theater having those things confirmed as we're watching them. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. My honorable mention, the Spider-Man that I saw that didn't really contribute anything. It was during the intervention when more and more ones were coming in, was that I noticed that there was a hockey player Spider-Man. He had the little fur put up and he was holding a stick. And I was like, I would love to see how he operates. But without fail, it was definitely Spider-Man India.
00:28:03
Speaker
Like people told me that that was going to happen. They're like, Hey, what did you do? I was like, I don't just shut your mouth right now. I'm not engaging in any conversation about this movie. I don't want anything to know about it. Like I will see it when I get in the theater to the point that I forgot that he was even in this. And I wasn't expecting like this big of a segment with him. Yeah. I've never seen anything like him. I've never seen character design. I didn't know who the voice actor was before, but then I realized that it was a car and Sony who played the taxi driver in Deadpool. Dopender.
00:28:33
Speaker
Yes. So when, when that music started, like I'm sitting and like, I've been to three Indian weddings in the last month. So it's like, I've been listening to Bollywood music nonstop. So when the music started, like I'm sitting there tapping my toe, like, okay, this is catchy. And then when it fully came in, like I went full deliramandy with like the shoulders come in and dancing. My friends even told me that afterwards, when that music like truly hit and we realized like what was going on, they were all watching my reactions instead of watching what was on the screen because of how much I was geeking out.
00:29:02
Speaker
So I started dancing. I got into it whenever they talked in. So I was joking with my friend who was sitting next to me speaking Spanish because when there was something that didn't have subtitles, I was like, what did they say? So the same thing happened with Hindi.
00:29:14
Speaker
that when there wasn't subtitles, I was nudging her. I was like, that's what I said. I understood that. This is really cool. So the music was phenomenal. Everything that he was saying was great. Like he was telling these Americans what was up that whole conversation about Chaiti. I could not contain myself. Yes. Great. Thank you. Everyone needs to listen to this man right here.
00:29:36
Speaker
Yeah, I totally heard you telling me that. I could not contain myself. I geeked out so hard. I have never felt more seen in a movie like this before with superheroes. And that's the beauty of Spider-Man. That's what Stan Lee has preached about is that anybody can see themselves in a Spider-Man suit because it's concealed. Like it can be anybody
00:29:59
Speaker
just be yourself, be the truest version of yourself and just see this beautiful rendition. By the way, when he called out that family of four for being on that moped, I have seen a max of six in Pakistan driving on the streets. It is terrifying. Don't not drive anywhere near them. It's just
00:30:16
Speaker
It's terrifying to look at. And the fact that they addressed so much of this culture and so much real talk within like the 10 minutes that this guy was just spitting dialogue every second of it was so, so beautiful. He is probably my favorite superhero ever now. I cannot exaggerate that. It's just I need more of him. That was just such a beautiful moment.
00:30:35
Speaker
Yeah, he had some great dialogue. And like you mentioning the spot making that observation made me think of when they're swinging along and the spots like I'm on a journey of self-discovery. He's like, don't you eat, pray, love me. Love me. Oh, wow, you've come to India for that. That was so funny. Yeah. Yeah. What I really appreciated about the characters, like they introduce him and like he's like, oh yeah, being Spider-Man is easy for me. I wake up in the morning. I don't want to, I don't work out because, you know, I don't want to put on too much muscle. Don't have to do anything with this hair, just a little bit of coconut oil.
00:31:04
Speaker
And then he's like, yeah, I've been doing this for six months. And then Miles is like, what? Six months, and he's already on the team. But that wasn't just there for the sake of like, you know, degrading Miles a little bit or playing a joke there. Like, it actually factored into the story the fact that we were going to get our first canon event. Like, he's a fresh Spider-Man, so he hasn't gone through this traumatic event yet. So I was like, yeah, I really appreciated that. It was like really well thought out and really well written. Yeah.
00:31:32
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you talking about that brings me to the number one point I wanted to talk about with this movie. And it was the biggest surprise and probably biggest sticking point for me is how much of a proper sequel this movie was, I thought it was just going to be okay, let's do spider verse again.
00:31:50
Speaker
I was not expecting the spot to be the bagel guy that got hit by the right when they threw it in the first movie like that guy became famous on in memes like to bring that back but suddenly you talk about how oh he's only been spider-man for six months and miles is like well why does he get a watch
00:32:06
Speaker
Turns out, everyone else does, but it was this deep-rooted story that they have to have been planning from the beginning. I don't know how they couldn't of, oh, Miles is from another world, he's already a non-canon event, and it's just going to play into this deep, he doesn't belong, and he needs to find where he belongs. And the World 42 mattered, even though it was a throwaway line in the first movie. Like, they dug up so much of the stuff that
00:32:30
Speaker
it felt normal to happen without an answer the first time around. But now that it's in front of us, you're asking questions of like, Oh, yeah, these things are different. What happened to these people? What was the collider event? How did the accident happen? You know,
00:32:43
Speaker
Is this really the only world where Peter Parker died? Possibly, like there's so many of those questions that were suddenly brought up. And it made a multiverse movie that proved this is what a multiverse thing can be, where it's all crossover, it's all planned out, and every little thing matters across the spider web. It reminded me a lot of everything everywhere all at once, of just talking about how these events need to happen in certain places, or it's just going to destroy everything.
00:33:10
Speaker
Ah, to compare these two movies is only apt because they're probably the best two instances of the multiverse. Full stop. It is insane that the spot is basically Jobu Tipaki and Bagel was his origin and Jobu Tipaki wanted to make everything a bagel. Oh my god. Oh, you're blowing my mind, J. Scottie. Oh, you're blowing my mind. Is the bagel a canon event? Yeah, the bagel's definitely a canon event. I had a bagel last morning. What did I do?
00:33:39
Speaker
but I do think that leads into like a conversation we should definitely have and I think one of the strengths of this movie is that it really does like offer an interesting commentary and like a meta commentary about the nature of fandom and what uh canon events are and what canon means to us as fans and like the first movie I thought was like such a great deconstruction of like the character of spider-man and the idea of spider-man and like
00:34:03
Speaker
the fact that anyone can wear the mask, anyone can be Spider-Man, and everything you brought up there, Andrew, about Miles being challenged with this fact that he's the anomaly, he's the original anomaly, he doesn't belong here. I think that's why going back to talking about those slower moments earlier on, that is the conversation he has on the roof with his mom. She makes him promise that no matter where you go, no matter who you interact with, know that you are loved and know that you belong.
00:34:31
Speaker
Absolutely. I think that's such a huge conversation that this movie has. The first movie was all about, you know, anyone can be Spider-Man. Anyone can be powerful. And now this movie sets up. I don't think it finishes this story, but it's setting up, I believe, the idea that, like,
00:34:53
Speaker
but no one gets to tell you how to live your life, you know what I mean? Like you don't have to be who your parents, his mom, the conversation with his mom, oh my gosh, it made me, all right, this is Matt crying again. My family didn't offer me much.
00:35:13
Speaker
you know money or Like status or good good home training like none of that Like I didn't learn much from my family if I'm being perfectly honest But the thing that I learned what I think I got from especially my mom was love just like love when she has that conversation about Excuse me, it's all right go go into the world and
00:35:35
Speaker
and know that you belong there. Have the confidence of a mother's love. I can't be that for you now. I need to learn to step away and not be that, but that's what I've been training you for your whole life. By loving you and telling you how you can be anything, I have been preparing you to be in the world and belong in it. My mom did that for us.
00:36:01
Speaker
And it meant a ton to me to hear that conversation. It was so good. Yeah, I can relate to that in the sense that from a deep Indian Pakistani culture, I've been considered a failure in many ways. I live too far away from our place of prayer. I became a photographer instead of becoming a doctor or an engineer. I'm 30 and still not married yet.
00:36:30
Speaker
my mom is always the one that's like, if that's what you want to do, then you got to do what you need for that. And she's always been like, my backbone and my support system and everything. So I 100% understand where it's like, it's not always a situation, but moms just have a magic way of making it work. Absolutely.
00:36:49
Speaker
Yeah, parents are the most power. They are the real superheroes. They're the most powerful people in so many of our lives, and they empower what we do. And I feel like it's been a great theme not to take away from Spider-Verse or these comments, but just in superhero movies of late.
00:37:06
Speaker
We've gotten so many family themes and I absolutely have loved it. You have this, you have Miss Marvel, we're gonna have Blue Beetle where it's like they're not keeping their identity a secret because they want their family to give them that power. Aunt May even knew about Peter in this recent Spider-Man and it's just, God, every one of those movies I've listed off has made me cry because parents just do the best work. They make us into the heroes we are.
00:37:31
Speaker
Yeah, and that's and that's the thing is like that that first movie was you know miles learning to be a spider-man and like learning to There was a lot of
00:37:45
Speaker
There was a lot of him as student in the first movie, like from his family, from his teachers, from all the other Spider-Men training him to be one. But this is about him doing the thing we all have to do when we get a certain age and deciding to make our own decisions that even if they're against what our parents say, what our other Spider-Men say, okay, analogy breaks down. But that sort of thing.
00:38:14
Speaker
No, I don't think the analogy breaks down fully. I was just teasing that we don't have time. No, no, it's a beautiful conversation. Absolutely beautiful conversation. It's why I think the movie strikes such a chord in addition to all the bombastic, shout out to the bombastic bag man who had a small visual cameo there. But all the frenetic and bombastic action we get, there's just this through line of emotional resonance, and that's what makes it work.
00:38:40
Speaker
Thinking about that message that miles mom gave him and it's so what he gets to say it's like when he's on the rocket going to the moon and Miguel is coming after him and like laying into him and like even Gwen and Peter say like hey you know this is not what we discussed like you're going a little too intensity is like who do you think you are really
00:38:58
Speaker
everyone's telling me who I have to be. And like, that's your canon. That's not my canon. I'm going to do my own thing. And to that end, I think like Miguel kind of does represent this like toxic fandom. Like he thinks he's the good guy and like Gwynn tells him we're supposed to be the good guys. And he says, we are, like we are protecting the fandom, but at what cost? Like, and I think that's why, you know, the character of Miles worked so well when he was introduced in comics. There was a lot of backlash. People were like, no, like,
00:39:28
Speaker
Peter Parker's Spider-Man, who is this Afro-Latino character that you're bringing in and making Spider-Man, we don't want that. It's really empowering and powerful, and I'm so glad that this character is getting this opportunity to be on the big screen and having the success that he's having, because it's just such a powerful message, and they weave it in there so well.
00:39:56
Speaker
And staying on the theme of parenthood, like with how much Peter B. Parker is struggling with that. How he first off didn't know he was hopeless when we first met him. Like he didn't want to be a teacher. He didn't want to be a husband. He thought that like everything for him was over and now
00:40:14
Speaker
he's given this opportunity. He has a child and that dialogue between him and Miles of him saying like, I want her to be like you. I want her to be like, I look up to you and what my child to be like that. And for him to be scared because he wasn't able to resonate the way that he wanted and to talk to MJ and be like, I don't know if I can be a dad. And I loved her response. Like you're saying this now.
00:40:39
Speaker
But for him to have that doubt and have that struggle, it's just kind of like, if I can't resonate with this, am I going to be a good father? Can I do this? And you see those doubts creeping back in from the version of him that we were introduced to. It's just really powerful stuff.
00:40:54
Speaker
Yeah, I think that might have been one of the most emotional scenes was him being like, I had this kid because of you. Yeah, there was the very clear line in the first movie, him and MJ broke up because she wanted kids and he didn't to know that he went back to the world and said, I just met the best kid in my life. I'm going to go through with this. Oh, my God.
00:41:13
Speaker
Just hold the baby. It's a life-changing experience. I'm telling you. You're so bad at holding babies. Oh my god. I need to see, even if it's just an image of Jake Johnson and Oscar Isaac in live action in their costumes, I wanted them to show up in No Way Home more than anything, but now I just need it even more.
00:41:39
Speaker
Peter B being the I take too many pictures of my kid dad is the best decision they could have made. I thought they were going to take the like, Oh, he's just a goofy father that doesn't know how to take care of his kid. No, he's the over the top father that is like, Oh, you'll love this.
00:41:54
Speaker
Just like when Michael Scott came back at the ending of The Office and he had like two phones because he ran out of storage and one just taking pictures of his kids.
00:42:08
Speaker
Yeah, so good. Peter B. Parker, he did not shine for me in this one the way that he did in the last one. The last one, he was like my favorite part of the story. But that's not a criticism of the movie. It's just he wasn't as much of the focus. He had a much more limited role in this one. And I kind of missed how
00:42:30
Speaker
I don't know. I guess I liked that they maintained how much of a mess he is. I really liked the first one, how much of a mess it was. I love the Spider-Man with sweatpants on. And so this one gave us a whole new version of that Spider-Man to cosplay with like the pink robe on. Um, just, it's all, it's all so good. I don't know. I can't even match for the baby that she pulled down herself.
00:42:54
Speaker
Oh yeah, when she's like ready to go into battle again, she pulls another mask. Little knitted mask. Oh, it's so good. That kid's an anarchist. We haven't talked too much about Miguel and talking about Spider-Man that I really, really loved in this movie. Love to hate is really like the thing.
00:43:16
Speaker
We talked about parent, it all ties together so well because this movie ties together so well. Our conversation weaves like a web because Miguel is the opposite of the mom in many ways. Like there, I love what you said, Scotty, and we definitely should come back to it about the toxic fandom aspect of Miguel, but it also represents a older generation who went through their own trauma
00:43:43
Speaker
and doesn't want to improve things for a younger generation because the trauma built them into the man they were supposed to be and now they want to perpetuate the trauma and like not take care of people uh not give people uh free health care in this country stuff like that um student loans sorry uh health care for real i mean like that's literally like this this i'm trying to get the political uh we won't do that much on strana panda but like it it there is this like sense of
00:44:13
Speaker
I did it. I did things that the thing my way the boomer psychology of like I did the thing I got I struggled through now you get to struggle to instead of looking at him and going like I want to help you I want to help the next generation to be supported they think support is somehow going to or like fixing the timeline is somebody gonna break society apart like literally that's what the movie is about and like
00:44:35
Speaker
It's not. It's just not the case. And supporting people and letting people make their own decisions, letting people have their own path, their own way is not a destruction to society. And I think
00:44:48
Speaker
not only is that resonant on that like very personal level, but then like you mentioned, Jay Scottie, it's resonant in this like, what is a Spider-Man movie? Like, what is a Thor movie? What is a Hulk movie? We have this discussion every time there's a new version of it, we have this discussion. And as fans, we have to like, well, I didn't like this Superman because he did this. I didn't like this Batman because he did this. This Batman killed. This Superman was a creeper who was stalking Lois with his X-ray vision.
00:45:18
Speaker
But like we all get to judge these movies and I really enjoyed the idea of like the creators of this movie are saying like no spider-man can be whatever we want him to be and like the changes we make
00:45:32
Speaker
can be, can be their own form of creativity and like we don't, Miles' father doesn't have to die. Now, the question is, is that true? And like, there's the setup of like, what if the canon event doesn't happen and then his universe falls apart? What's the answer to that? You know, like, what is the, what is the solution? Because we saw a universe falling apart.
00:45:56
Speaker
Well, we talked a little bit about possible MCU connections, and we know Secret Wars is coming, so incursions and universes collapsing, maybe this is all... What does it mean when a Spider-Man misses a canon event and the world starts collapsing? Is that... Because in all versions of the MCU, which this is all the same multiverse now, so we have to figure out how these rules work.
00:46:21
Speaker
When a timeline is pruned, which is kind of what that was happening, it had to be the TVA to do it. So in other words, it was Kang doing it. So like in this version, is there some third party that is not Miguel? Is it Kang? Could it be someone else? Miguel's a contractor.
00:46:41
Speaker
Thank you. Well, Miguel has his own purposes that he thinks, like the TVA is doing the thing they think they have to do to protect the sacred timeline, but there's someone at the top lying to them. What if all of this ties together in a similar way? Miguel's been protecting the spider verse, but there's someone above him who's really pulling the shots, like making him think that he has to do this. You know what I mean? I don't know. It could also be the other way of like,
00:47:09
Speaker
him protecting the spider verse outside the MCU so they never cross like some other entity that is saying this is my own sacred timeline over here I've been able to keep this hidden away from Kang or something like that and that's when they finally come together.
00:47:25
Speaker
But I will say there's one thing. Yeah, Spider-Kang. There's one. That's great, actually. I got a pause on that. That's actually lovely. Like, like if they, if they brought in, we've been doing Kangs for two or three years at that point. Well, I guess only one more year away is this movie. But the end of the movie is a Kang, but it's a spider version of Kang. I go Spider-Man. Like Spider-Kang really isn't that far ahead.
00:47:48
Speaker
I'll spin off of Spider-Kang because I was thinking, with all these Spider-Verse proceedings, the character that's central to the Spider-Verse that we haven't seen yet is Madame Web. There was the rumor about Kang being gender swapped. What if Spider-Kang is Madame Web pulling the strings of the web?
00:48:06
Speaker
Absolutely moving that weaving that web herself but um there's one thing that has been bugging me since early in the movie that i have not been able to come up with a good answer in my head and i think it's something that'll be paid off in the second film was miguel
00:48:22
Speaker
The moment where Miguel went to bite the Vulture's neck, he has some ulterior motive that they just didn't ever go back to. There's some vampire shit going on there. Yeah, they acknowledge he's a vampire. They call him a vampire ninja, yeah. Yeah, like they acknowledge it because there's the great joke of, wait, a vampire good guy? What's that like, Morbius?
00:48:44
Speaker
I feel like that is some other underlying plot point of like, is he doing this to gain something not just protect? Like, is he getting more powerful? Are there the like the vampires or the monsters or something that want to rise up? And there's some other thing going on because it felt like a very big moment. And no one else got bit during the movie. Like I expected it to come back.
00:49:06
Speaker
Well, we've seen, you know, characters like the ancient one who drew her power from the dark dimension, drew power from other dimensions. What if something about multiversal, like, what are they called? Sorry.
00:49:24
Speaker
the what about what about variants yeah variants but then we call they call them in the movie like anomalies sorry oh sure what if these like multiversal anomalies are like coming into different universes and somehow the blood of the different the different you like if he's a vampire and he does drink blood from time to time maybe he only drinks blood of the baddies okay i don't know enough about spider-man 299 but
00:49:47
Speaker
If he's biting maybe he gets different like source of power by biting people from different multiverses or something What if he can stop glitching if he consumes the blood so suddenly he can become a multiversal villain That doesn't have to be bound to any one universe anymore. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sad right there source of the watches
00:50:10
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. It could be that could be what's something watches. It's that gets pretty dark for us. But spider verse three, if there's like a weird multiversal blood bank. Yeah. Well, I mean, they did acknowledge like, oh, there was the go home machine that reads your DNA to figure out where you're from. I mean, DNA is in blood. Like it could just be some like maybe he's stealing hairs, but instead he gets corrupt and steals
00:50:36
Speaker
Blood after a while like it could be some tie together. Yeah, I hate to pivot away from Miguel because I think this is all fascinating. I think there's a lot to learn about his character, but this talk about like this.
00:50:50
Speaker
multiversal villain with unbridled power just made me think of the spot again. And I think while the spot himself, like his journey kind of like was one of the biggest cliffhangers, I think again, his relationship with Miles is what helped me feel like this part one was still a cohesive story because again, it's the story of like Spider-Man and his hubris a little bit, like not taking a villain all that seriously, like calling him a villain of the week. And that is what actually motivates him.
00:51:18
Speaker
to like become more powerful like he's pretty goofy like earlier on and Jason Schwarzman is like great as the voice like please let me rob you please don't make this a bad experience for me and then there at the end like he is truly terrifying when he undergoes that visual like transformation where he looks more like like a Van Gogh painting with all these like swirling dark energies like and Miles like
00:51:42
Speaker
tells them like I'm sorry that I called you a villain of a week like you're a great villain like you're scaring the shit out of me right now like please stop.
00:51:56
Speaker
Yeah, it's so freaking good guys. Do we all just want to go watch this movie again? Because that's where I'm at right at this moment. There's more details to pick up on out there somewhere. Oh, yeah. Look for beyond the episode of this podcast, the sequel to this episode. Do we know when that film is coming out? It's currently slated for March 29th.
00:52:22
Speaker
Of 24? 24, yeah. Oh. Like 10 months from now, it's crazy. I'm glad you made us wait, what, five years just to have both of them set and ready to go? Yeah. I hope so. That would be ideal, honestly. Yeah. It's like, hey, if we're going to take that long, might as well finish it all at once.
00:52:41
Speaker
Well, the good thing is, it being an animated property, there's probably not any writing left to be done. I would imagine so. Probably. Yeah. That came out in 2018. Unless 5G gets his fingers on it, then there might be some things that have to change. They might need to change something to fit in Kang or something, which would be amazing. I would be down.
00:53:04
Speaker
Or even get Dr. Strange in there because they may have had that drop. Miguel is somehow working on that case too. It's interesting that he might also be working with those variants. Well, he did say that those anomalies are popping up because of that still, which we know Adrian Toomes randomly popped into another universe at the end of
00:53:32
Speaker
Yeah, it's even Morpheus, but after No Way Home, Andrien Tomb just ended up in another universe. So at least that... Sony is fixing that canon. We were all like, that's stupid. But now we know that like... It made me so mad. It made me so mad, that weird thing. But it felt like they were only doing it
00:53:51
Speaker
to make that leap happen. And so they could use Adrian tombs in a movie, which is what they were doing. But I mean, we're having the same kind of conversation we just said we probably shouldn't have, though, like, that's not how the character works.
00:54:04
Speaker
Yeah, well, it's just not how that spell works. I don't think that it's bad to have a conversation about a movie and whether it follows its own rules. That's the biggest thing for me. A movie needs to follow its own rules. I apologize.
00:54:23
Speaker
I thought you were saying, I thought you were in the camp of people who's like, that's not how the vulture would act. He doesn't hate Spider-Man. It's like, but he could hate Spider-Man. There's a lot of people that argue that side of it that it's like, I don't like that Adrian Toomes wants to kill Spider-Man now. I agree. The spell is stupid. The spell doesn't make sense.
00:54:41
Speaker
Well, like the fact that the spell happened and then like the spell did one thing in spider-man no way home and then they just Randomly also threw tombs into another universe at the end of war Mia. So there's like, okay, that's that's weird But to be the devil's advocate here like dr. Strange mentioned how unstable the spell had become at that point so who knows what the lasting ramifications are especially outside of like
00:55:07
Speaker
the established universe there and the reaching multiverse. I guess anybody that knew Peter Parker with Spider-Man might have been quantumly entangled. I know this isn't the marvels, but that's the word that's coming into mind. And maybe as this spell became more and more unstable, they could have gotten shot off to whichever universe. But I don't know why I'm defending Morbius because
00:55:31
Speaker
Well, I agree with you completely that that's how it could work. And now that they've done it in this movie, it makes me much more comfortable. It like post-hoc makes the Adrian Toomes thing make sense, which I love. Sure, sure. Now I'm like, okay, well, I guess the spell does work that way. And we just didn't know it. And that Adrian Toomes was just the first glimpse of it that we saw.
00:55:51
Speaker
Yeah, there is also like this movie mentions that there's all the weird things happening because of Kingpin's Collider. That could also have been the event that moved tombs was just like Kingpin's whole experiment, not even the spell. That's a good point. Yeah, that's definitely a good point. Yeah. But the the whole Sony of it all and like thinking about Amy Pascal and Avi Arad and like,
00:56:13
Speaker
how they've been with the Spider-Man franchise for so long. Speaking to this movie's success and Sony wanting to run with this success, they've been trying to do these Spider-Man spin-off movies for a long time to varying degrees of success. But we did get the news that a spin-off Spider-Woman movie is in development and then there's been a lot of buzz about Miles making the transition to live action, which I think is incredibly exciting. But
00:56:39
Speaker
the fact that it's Avi Arad and Amy Pascal kind of at the forefront, I'm like, yeah, you pipe down a little bit, just let Lord and Miller, like, let them handle it, please. Yeah, give them Spider-Man and, like, put them in Feige's pocket. Like, that's what I want to see happen. Yeah, for sure. And we had that announcement this week that they're talking about a live-action teasing, I think, is the way a lot of the articles are saying, a live-action version of Spider-Man, Miles Morales, and, like,
00:57:07
Speaker
Given that this movie says he's the only one of him in the multiverse, doesn't it basically say that? He's the one Miles Morales, because he's the one where he wasn't supposed to happen. He's an anomaly, right? I suppose there could be another anomaly that happens later or whatever, but what do you think the likelihood or the possibility that this version of Miles Morales is the one we get in live action later?
00:57:33
Speaker
I think it's a possibility. It just will like, how do you go about casting at that point? Because I know the voice actor Shamique Moore, he looks significantly older than Miles is supposed to be. So maybe there'll be some time travel involved. I just don't know how you go about casting that character, but with the positive reception to this version of Miles and like,
00:57:53
Speaker
I think there's a possibility there. I think so. Yeah. I have a feeling they want to retell the origin story again with like the live action actor to just like audiences who don't watch cartoons, you know, because that's the thing, but not on this podcast. It is not on this podcast that doesn't exist. But sorry, I just recorded with Ashley.
00:58:17
Speaker
She's like, you guys is arch nemesis. But no, she we were talking about it and like, you know, people like her would have to go and like watch these movies. But I'm sure it seems almost like they're setting it up. That could be the case. But like, people like her would have to go and rewatch these or they'd have to do it cleverly where they like sort of just have him be Spider-Man. I don't know. Anyway, I was just asking.
00:58:40
Speaker
I think it depends on which universe we end up in. Like if Sony makes the Miles Morales movie, they might do the transition. If it's going to be in the MCU proper, I feel like they're going to rewrite it because they've already kind of done the tease of Donald Glover has a nephew that lives in New York, who obviously at that point is not Spider-Man and already is Miles.
00:59:05
Speaker
But if they give us a Spider-Man 4 and Oscorp comes back around, that feels like a great way to just have another radioactive spider up here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because we don't even have like, like we haven't seen a Tom Holland origin story on screen yet. It's just like a quick yes. Yes, we have. Well, we haven't seen the bite. Yeah. But that's what we were talking about this the other day. How beautiful the no way home.
00:59:32
Speaker
Aunt May, deaf is, because we all thought, we all thought for so long that our origin story happened off screen, but what we didn't realize is we were watching his origin story for like the last three movies. His Aunt May dying is his Uncle Ben dying. Like that's the, at least that's how I took it. I don't know that Uncle Ben may have died off screen. They never say for sure.
00:59:56
Speaker
I think they allude to it in Spider-Man Homecoming for sure. They say all that stuff with your Uncle Ben. They don't say, like, what happened. And he is using, like, his uncle's suitcase. So, like, you get the idea that his uncle might have died. We don't know if it was because he was Spider-Man. We don't know if it was because, you know, of a wrestling match or whatever. Like, we don't know too much about it. Sure. Yeah, I think at the beginning of Far From Home, he said something along the lines of, like, we've lost people, which is...
01:00:25
Speaker
I would say very big term. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And in Civil War, Tony asks him, why do you do what you do? Tell me, what do you get out of this? And he's like, because when you have the power to do things and you don't do them, it's kind of your fault. Which is basically, with great power comes great responsibility, but he doesn't say it. But then you get that great moment and no way home when he's on the rooftop with the other Peters and says,
01:00:49
Speaker
she told me with great power and then Tobey Maguire's Peter, Peter too, gets to fill in, comes great responsibility. How did you know that? Uncle Ben said it. And it's like, for me, we've all lost people. So it kind of like set up these like canon events even beforehand. Cause like Andrew Garfield gets to come in and say, for me, it was, it was Gwen. Like we've all lost people close to us that like made us who we are today.
01:01:12
Speaker
Let me guess, your uncle died? How did you know? Man, this is making me tear up so much thinking about all these movies with these freaking great mother storylines and multiverse. It's funny because even the movie we all think of when we say the word multiverse, multiverse of madness,
01:01:34
Speaker
is DS Mom, as we all joke, because it's about the evil version of the mother in that movie. But again, Ashley would dispute me on evil. But no, it's just funny how much Moms and the multiverse are tied together in everything you roll at once, this movie, No Way Home, and DS Mom in a very different way.
01:02:01
Speaker
that's that's I always took that moment like he says the thing about in you know in civil war about when you when you can do the things I can do and you don't and people get hurt it's your fault yeah and we always assumed that was a lesson he'd learned from his uncle Ben passing but what like I've realized like I think is also a possibility now is that like that's just who his mom is and like his mom taught him that
01:02:29
Speaker
from being his mom, you know? And then, like, when she says, with great power comes great responsibility, as she's actually dying, it's like, oh, man, just, it's like, stories about his mom, it's so good. Yeah, even in an opposite franchise, we got Flash coming out next week, and, you know, the whole Flash boy paradox is, you know, Barry goes back in time to save his mom. Good call, good call. Oh, man, this is weird.
01:02:57
Speaker
Yeah. I'm going to kind of take away from that heartfelt moment because it must be too real for me. It must be getting me in the field, so I'm going to use deflection. That's my coping strategy. But when you were talking about May, and I thought about how Peter in the MCU especially refers to her as May instead of Aunt May. And it made me think of the joke with Miles' parents like,
01:03:27
Speaker
I've never like, gankey, he calls me by my first name and then when you get introduced to Gwen, she's just like, oh, you must be Rio. Just like, calling me by my first name, I don't love that. And then Jefferson, it's like, surely you must mean Lieutenant Morales. Soon to be Captain Morales. Oh, man.
01:03:48
Speaker
Yeah, so based off of that, like, there's so many drops of foreshadowing that come up in this movie, those little things, it's like, soon to be captain, and then you realize, like, the captain status is, like, a big thing, you know, these, these cannon events and whatnot. And one that I'm kind of gonna ring back to is,
01:04:03
Speaker
what was a comical scene for Miles to only have a B in Spanish and him getting so much trouble for that. I love that this other variation of Miles that we're getting has, he embraces more of his Hispanic side, like he has more of the accent, he says Miles Morales, and
01:04:23
Speaker
somebody was like, why would they add the accent to that? I was like, first off, like it shows the differences between them, like he embraces that part of his heritage a little more. But then in the next movie, when there's crazy action going on, we can differentiate between who's who just based off of like, their tone of voice, and it adds a little more diversity to that character. So there's just so much of just like these little things that we think don't matter too much that just end up being like a big part of the overall story.
01:04:49
Speaker
Also, presumably, if his father's dead, he's speaking Spanish only at home with his mother. Oh, yeah. And that's a character driven thing. But I mean, we talk around the secondary miles. I can't hold back any longer. How did they make the prowler cooler like that?
01:05:06
Speaker
Lows the first one out of the water and the dreadlocks with it, just all of it was so, so good. I don't often buy merch like Funkos or anything like that. If we get a Miles Prowler, it's going to be hard for me to resist because that looks so sweet. I'm excited for that fight scene. It's going to be crazy. I've been focusing on anime-only Funkos, but that might be what gets me to dive back in.
01:05:34
Speaker
I don't ever really buy toys anymore or like whatever, collectibles anymore. And mostly because I have a very tiny place. But as I mentioned to you guys, I just put an offer on a house and I've been like looking through this house and everywhere I look, I'm like, that's a great shelf. Like I am definitely getting some starships to put in this like, oh, there's a great number of shelves for that. I'm so excited about it.
01:06:01
Speaker
I'll just say, I cannot wait for the remix of the Prowler theme that they're going to have to make to make the Miles Prowler theme because that might have been the best theme in the first movie was that Prowler theme. Yeah. The horror beats. So give it to us, Lord Miller. No, that chase sequence from the first one into the Spider-Verse with Prowler is one of the best action sequences in that movie. So I'm really excited to maybe get like that kind of an inversion of that as Miles is having to escape from this alternate version of himself in the opening of the
01:06:29
Speaker
of Beyond the Spider-Verse, or at least as I imagine that it's going to go. But also as a lifelong Sonic fan, I can't hear Miles Prowler without thinking of Miles Tails Prowler. For those Sonic fans out there, if you heard it, I heard it too. I forgot his last name was Prowler. I did not know that. Yeah. That's great. Should we open up the floor to anything that we haven't brought up yet? Any standout moments? Any standout characters? Any cameos?
01:07:13
Speaker
Oscar Isaac Spider-Man was really fascinating. Like we, we basically saw what happened when the hero saved the day and what happened when it didn't. Like when the plan of somebody going to their loved ones to replace that version of them, like what happens in that scenario. It was fascinating seeing like the flip end of that. Yeah. Well, it's also the, yeah, it's Kingpin lost his family.
01:07:20
Speaker
speculation for the future?
01:07:38
Speaker
and he is doing everything in his power to make sure he can get that family back, no matter the cost. And Miguel lost his family and is doing everything in his power to make sure everyone else has the same loss. Like it's really like, it's a weird parallel, but also he,
01:08:03
Speaker
The reason I love Miguel is not only for the thematicus, it's just really great ethical discussion. It's needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one. A little Star Trek in there. You either save a universe or you save a person. Clearly, there's the right decision there, but the question is,
01:08:24
Speaker
When you come to that decision, how much do you trust that it's a binary decision? And that's, I think, what the next movie is going to question. And that's one of the beautiful things about what the MCU has done for so long that this movie, this franchise has been hitting is there's just so much gray area. Like, it isn't just black and white. It isn't just good and evil. Like, this is very on the edge. But for example's sake, like, I feel like Spot is the villain in this.
01:08:53
Speaker
And Miguel is an antagonist, but at what point do they switch? Like when does one become the other or when does Miguel himself like become a villain? Because the way that the trailers went, even though I only watched the first trailer in the teaser, like it seemed like he was going to be the villain of this. But just like how the MCU has multiple antagonists throughout each film, like we have multiple threats and multiple things to deal with. And Miguel is a big part of that. Yeah, I I don't see Miguel as a villain.
01:09:23
Speaker
I think that Miguel is doing what he thinks he has to, but I do think Miguel is, I think he's convinceable, possibly.
01:09:35
Speaker
Maybe there's a world where they figure out why these things are happening, why these worlds are being destroyed. Maybe there's something else, like we talked about, maybe there's something else behind it. And what if they can bring back the worlds that were destroyed this way? What if Miguel can end this story by getting his world back or something? I don't know. I don't know, man.
01:09:56
Speaker
thinking you're right, but doing the wrong things to get there. Because the answer to Miguel's question is not, these people have to die, this canon event has to happen. It's close off the multiverse, but he doesn't want to see that. But because if he closes the multiverse, he can't stop these things. So who's going to stop them? Because they kind of already teased the answer to the question with spider Gwen, her dad became captain. He quit. He's alive now. Awesome.
01:10:27
Speaker
That's because there was no other Spider-Man to intervene. The only reason they stopped the canon event is because Miles wasn't supposed to be there in Mumbai. So if they were to close off the multiverse and it was just Spider-Man India, he probably wouldn't have been able to save everyone no matter how hard he tried. But at the end of the day, you were the only one in control of your destiny and your fate. But the multiverse is what's screwing that up. So the answer is not for Miguel to change more things, it's for him to change less.
01:10:56
Speaker
Yeah, let go a little bit. Yeah, if he were to just trust the other Spider-Man to do what they do. Yeah, and be be Spider-Man. Hmm. Yeah, because he doesn't know that like, as hard as Miles tries, if Miles is by himself, he might not be able to stop the event. But how does he know if he's not, you know, putting his fingers in it and making sure it happens? Yeah, that's really, that's a really good point. Yeah.
01:11:22
Speaker
Yeah, I agree that I don't think Miguel, rather, is a villain. I do certainly think he's an antagonist, but it does make me think back to another great callback early on in the film when he's in Gwyn's World and they're fighting the vulture and the helicopter comes in and says, they're shooting at him and he says, I'm a good guy. You don't look like a good guy. So I think that thematically, I think, like you said, Andrew, he is a good guy. He's just going about it the wrong way.
01:11:53
Speaker
we think right now too like who knows what dark lesson waits for miles in this other universe you know what i mean um like what if the resolution of the story is that like here because with great power comes great responsibility i this movie often when you end a series the second one with a big like
01:12:20
Speaker
Nah, I ain't doing that. I'm not gonna get trained, Yoda. I'm gonna go save my friends. In the end, you have to go back and get trained. You know what I mean? Like, so in this, is he gonna be like, nah, what? You were right. Right, so like, you might go, nah, I'm doing what I wanna do. I'm going a different way. I forget the, what's the line he says that's so cool? Right before he blows up. He can just, nah, I'll do this my own way. Yeah, something like, it's so good is when he blows up,
01:12:50
Speaker
all of the spider people. I lured all these people away from your race. Less fingers, more palm. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and that was again, taught to him, taught to him by spider punk who knew he needed him to have certain lessons so he could work with him in a minute. It was so, I love the spider punk stuff. Um, yeah, but, uh, he, what was it? Oh yeah. What if the lesson of the next movie is like, okay,
01:13:18
Speaker
Like maybe he can do everything he wants to do to try to save his dad. But what if his dad dies anyway? And that is still a canon event in his life that he couldn't stop. And he realizes like this great power came with this great cost, you know?
Multiverse and Spider Characters
01:13:33
Speaker
And like he learns to he has to learn to accept his life story.
01:13:39
Speaker
instead of going my own way. This one ends on going your own way, but where does he have to go from there? Does he just fight his way through and find a third way out of this whole situation? Or does he have to loop back around and realize that in a way, he might have had bad methods, but Miguel was right.
01:13:57
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's sad to think that a lot of these characters have had to deal with one or even two deaths. And the fact that Miles is potentially going to have to deal with three, first, Peter A. Parker, and then Uncle Aaron, and then now potentially his dad is just like a lot for him. Yeah. And he's gonna deal with the mirror universe, the darkest timeline, where, uh,
01:14:22
Speaker
his father died already and it like I think that's gonna be a big like hard lesson to learn through like living in the world that his he lost his father and not only was there no uh did spider-man die but there was never a spider-man yeah because that was earth 42 yeah exactly yep so that's gonna be this and he can't even legally drive yet
01:14:46
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah that reminder early on in the movie of like he's only 15. I was like whoa That's intense for him. Yeah, because they aged him up, but I expected like oh, he'll be 18 now No, this has been a year. He's still a kid Yeah, yeah
01:15:01
Speaker
Well, you talked a lot about the alternate world. The last just gush that I want to get out there. I think we finally get to see the Sinister Six in that alternate world. And I'm so excited because they teased that the Sinister Six cartel is like running the world. So please let that be as epic as I'm hoping for. And that also reminds me of the other point. Apparently, a canon event is that J.K. Simmons exists in every single world. Because the fact that he voiced the character in all of the worlds is the funniest thing to me.
01:15:31
Speaker
It's so good. I mean, it goes back to frickin' Homecoming. Or was it? Which one was it where he appeared? It was the second one. At the end of Far From Home. Correct. Far From Home. When he appeared in that and it just blew all of our minds and blew open the idea of the multiverse to us, that was one of the first, that was the first big multiversal thing we saw where it was like, oh, it's all tied together. Oh, my gosh. And then like to have it in here as just ubiquitous was amazing. Yeah.
01:15:59
Speaker
It does beg the question, though, in a world where Spider-Man never existed, who does J. Jonah Jamison rail against? Who is the target of his ire? Ooh, that's a good question. Probably Osborn. Or is he just a tool of the Sinister Six? I don't know. Maybe he's up there being like, the Sinister Six cartel has a bad rep. Oh, that's some pretty good JK stuff. That's pretty good.
01:16:25
Speaker
Yeah, the Spider-Man video game definitely set a really high bar for the Sinister Six, so I'm excited to see what they were able to do with them. Yeah. Do you think there's a world where J. Jonah Jameson is either a villain or Spider-Man? Does that exist somewhere? And the grand calculus of the multiverse, it has to be out there somewhere.
01:16:47
Speaker
He's that version of Spider-Man that actually has six arms. He hates himself. He's super self-deprecating. Now I really, yeah, exactly. I really want that. That's a really funny idea. If a multiversal, we visited J. Jonah Jameson Spider-Man. So I'm fuzzy on the details. I remember the movie ends with him tied up and seeing the, you know, mirror miles.
01:17:18
Speaker
Wiles, if you will. Like Wario Miles.
01:17:26
Speaker
Okay. So, but right before that, we get to see where all of his, they put his team together. Or was that, that Gwyn brought the team together? Gwyn brings the team together. That's right. He wasn't there. So Spider, Spider-Man Miles does not know yet that the team has been put together and is coming to help.
01:17:49
Speaker
Yeah. And while we didn't get vocal performances from Nick Cage or John Mulaney, Spider-Man Noir and Spider-Ham were present, which I'm very, very excited about. Just Spider-Punk talking to Noir is just going to be a moment like... Who played the horse Spider-Man? Taron Killam. Taron Killam. Yeah, the web slinger.
01:18:14
Speaker
Yeah, who is Tarrant Killam? I'm not... He was on SNL. He's married to Colby Smolders, actually. Okay, okay. Yeah, no, I thought that might be... Nic Cage. Nic Cage at one point. I couldn't tell the voice, and I was like, is that Nic Cage? On the count of three, we shoot. One, two. You didn't wait for three. He was one of my favorite Spider-Man. Yeah, he was pretty great. Why is the horse wearing a mask? The horse has a secret identity, too.
01:18:44
Speaker
That's a line directly from comics if I'm not mistaken. I think I've seen the screenshot where people are like, but why? He's like, because the horse needs
Gwen's Story and Listener Feedback
01:18:52
Speaker
to have a secret identity. How did you all react with the T-Rex spider? Because my theater flipped out. We were just laughing. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
01:19:03
Speaker
The fact that it said T-whip instead of thwip, T-whip. Oh, did it really? Oh, my gosh. Another one that I really liked was the tech person spider bite, but it was BYTE. It's like the Ready Player One spider person. Yeah. That was awesome. Golly, man, this movie is great. Yeah.
01:19:24
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, and speaking of spider, but I do want to talk about how cool the, um, the sequence was of that spider coming down and like webbing them back into their DNA origin. Just the look of that was just so creepy, but so fascinating at the same time. It definitely made me like everything about that just prison vibe just made me very uncomfortable and a really good creative way. Well, uh, I know we've gone kind of long here, but, uh, I know we got at least one piece of feedback that I am pulling up now.
01:19:54
Speaker
Yeah, I knew we were going to have some things to say about this movie. I don't think I expected us to be an hour and a half worth of excited, but it's about what I thought. I pulled that up. Bring up the last thing that I wanted to just quickly come back to was that you were talking about how like we didn't get as much of Peter B. Parker and we got a lot of Gwen. And I feel like that was like the perfect swap because of how important Peter was in the first one. Like we got little inklings of what Gwen's origin story was and
01:20:22
Speaker
they reacted and their relationship and stuff so being able to build more on that and see more of her home and her family and her issues and stuff it was she's such a powerful character and even the opening of her um just being lost in her music because she doesn't know how to like express her problems and then storming out you know because of the depression and the anxiety and everything that she's holding in because the situation that she's in and losing to her best friends and all of that like
01:20:48
Speaker
That inner turmoil just hit so freaking hard and that's why I feel like if that first 20 minutes was the whole movie, I still would have been content.
01:20:59
Speaker
I'm right there with you, man. I think that first three minutes is like a great little short film in itself. Like it's so good. And it just brings back up how great her design was and the ballet slippers and the way that she moves through the air. Like Spider-Gwen was one of my favorite Spider-Men coming out of the first one. So just getting more of that was fantastic.
01:21:19
Speaker
No, I'm really glad you bring that up, Andrew, because that does remind me. I've got an email here that I'm going to read, but Megan Lachowski reached out to us on the Instagram post, and she called John Irons and myself out for not giving enough kudos to the gymnasts in this movie. And yes, it's animated, but the animators obviously had to look to real world gymnasts for inspiration. So are you wearing my chucks?
01:21:45
Speaker
Yeah, kudos to all the gymnasts that made. This is an animated, over-the-top, unrealistic in some ways, but I do feel like the movement and the fluidity is grounded in some realism. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Okay, let's hit this feedback real quick. This is coming to us from our listener, Jonathan Kim.
01:22:08
Speaker
So he's got a little non-spoiler section here. If you haven't seen this movie yet, go watch it. This is a great sequel to the first movie and it ties in very well. The art in this film is amazing. As you can see various kinds of styles and it kept to the original style from individual properties as well.
01:22:23
Speaker
All right, spoiler ahead. Ah, I was not expecting to be continued at the end as we go into Beyond the Spider-Verse. I was one of those angry, annoyed audiences since I wasn't expecting that at the end, but I loved every moment of the movie. I took my eight-year-old son, and towards the end of the film, he was like, how long is this movie?
01:22:42
Speaker
And I guess with the length and the direction they were going, I knew they couldn't fill it all in in this movie. So I get it. I'm excited for the Beyond. My son loved the film as well. I asked him afterward what his favorite part of it was, and he said the whole movie. I had to agree. I think I may have been the only huge fan in the theater because I was the only one with a happy surprise reaction when Mrs. Chin from Venom popped up in Donald Glover as the Prowler were on screen.
01:23:10
Speaker
The artwork on this movie was awesome as well. Just the details and thought they put into this film is amazing. I wish I had the pause button to read everything though. I'm with you there. I love seeing the words like Scooby-Doo being explained as well as seeing like the Puerto Rico flag symbol when Miles' mother snapped her finger in the counselor's office.
01:23:30
Speaker
Also, all the lines and additional details depending on the characters were great like seeing the action words in different languages and such too. Definitely a great movie and I can't wait for Beyond the Spider-Verse. I'll need to rewatch this one again so I can catch all the bubbles and all the easter eggs in the film. So many of them.
01:23:47
Speaker
Love the ones connected to the MCU, even the timeline branch looking similar. Also the ones connecting the PlayStation Spider-Man game, the cameo and the game Genki was playing in his room. Love it. Looking forward to hearing everyone else's feedback. Keep moving forward, Jonathan. Yay. Thanks, John. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree with him more like.
01:24:09
Speaker
I cannot wait for the super nerds to get their hands on this film and go through frame by frame so I can just like watch the 30 minute YouTube video of here's all the Easter eggs that you missed. I dream I dream of a day when here at stranded Panda we have the resources and time to like do that kind of stuff. I love those kinds of videos. I watch them all the time.
01:24:31
Speaker
Yeah, I've seen it twice, and I'm still itching to see it again, just so I can, because I feel like you can look anywhere on the screen and pick up something new. It just begs to be rewatched and rewatched, just like the first one, but this one even more so.
01:24:44
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. OK, well, I think that's everything we have to say at this point. I'm sure the conversation will continue to go. I encourage everyone to be like Jonathan. If you've seen this movie and you are riding that high like we are, send us some feedback. You can do that at animationdeliberationpodcastatgml.com or any of our social medias. Tell them about those,
Future Podcasts and Engagement
01:25:06
Speaker
Andrew. Yeah, you can follow us on all of our social medias on Twitter at animationdelib1 and on Facebook and Instagram, animationdeliberation.
01:25:15
Speaker
Very cool. Let's do some quick plugs before we get out of here. Zuhair, what do you have to let the people know about? I get to hop on Multiversal News for the first time this week, so I'm excited about that. We got 323 with Reed Murphy. I'll be hopping back on that after a long hiatus, and then I will be with them at Awesome Con in DC.
01:25:35
Speaker
June 16th at 6.30, we will be up on a panel playing a nerdy family feud with the audience. So please come make our lives difficult on stage. I can't wait to meet some of the listeners and just have a good time. Matthew Carroll, thank you so much for being here. Glad we could do this crossover. What would you like to let the people know about?
01:25:53
Speaker
Dude, thanks for having me. You guys should all hit subscribe if you came over here because you heard our MCU cast episode about that we were doing this one. Make sure to subscribe to Animation Deliberation, first off, because they're awesome. And you guys, seriously, you all do a great job and like you keep the energy high and you're knowledgeable and funny and thoughtful. And I really appreciate your show. Be on the network.
01:26:17
Speaker
But for us, for me, yeah, Zoo mentioned multiverse news is the new newest show we've got going on. Very excited about that. And the old the old the old stalwart Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast is still rolling. So jump over there. We're getting ready to cover Secret Invasion in just like 10 days. It comes out or something like that. Very exciting. Yeah, very exciting.
01:26:43
Speaker
Andrew, you have an upcoming appearance on a sibling show, don't you? Yes, I do. The month of June is just busier than I can remember. The number of movies and TV shows is insane, but unfortunately, I have to betray and fall on my own dagger that I love. Jumping over to the Source Pages podcast to talk about my favorite sets of comics, DC. We know them, we love them.
01:27:06
Speaker
I'm going to be talking about the Flashpoint Paradox comics if you want to read along with them or just hear our thoughts about those comics going into the movie. We're going to be talking about that next week, going into The Flash. So that'll be an exciting time. That's awesome.
01:27:21
Speaker
As for me, I encourage you, please go back and listen to that instant reaction that I did with John Irons from Captain Gaines Show. He is a father, so he was able to provide a little bit of a unique perspective, taking his kids to go see the film as well. Some great stuff to pick up on there. And then, yeah, I've been appearing on a lot of different podcasts, but I want to plug Benjers Assemble.
01:27:42
Speaker
We've got two concurrent coverages going on right now. We just covered the Batman 89 with Michael Keaton, directed by Tim Burton, and Batman Returns in preparation for the Flash. And then we were also doing the entire saga of
01:28:00
Speaker
the Mission Impossible movies in preparation for Dead Reckoning Part 1. So, great time to be a fan of all this stuff and check it all out. I really appreciate you listening and keep tuning in. That's T-double-O, N-I-N. And as always, stay well. Until the next Spider-Verse, muscle muscle.
01:28:21
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Animation Deliberation Podcast, a proud member of the Strandepanda Network. If you would like to contact us, you can email AnimationDeliberationPodcast at gmail.com or follow us on Twitter at AnimationDelib1. For this and other great shows, you can visit Strandepanda.com or join the great community that is the Strandepanda Chat Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash spchat. Tune in next time and remember, stay well.