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15: My Pastor's Take
170 Plays3 years ago
When I asked my pastor of 20 years to tell me what he was thinking when I had to take a leave of absence during a stress-induced breakdown, I didn't expect him to say that he felt guilty. In this eye-opening interview, I talk to Pastor Chuck Schlie about how he helped me, how he counsels people who are struggling with mental health issues and how he takes care of his own mental health.
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Transcript
Introduction to Seeking the Still
00:00:01
Speaker
Seeking the Still is produced by Jill Devine Media. Welcome to the Seeking the Still podcast with me, your host, Laura Fleetwood.
00:00:14
Speaker
In this safe space, we come together to seek the still amid chaotic lives. To get honest about what overwhelms us, to become connected to one another and to the divine, to step into who we were created to be. Always real, never perfect, and forever on your side.
00:00:40
Speaker
Welcome to Seeking the Still today, where you are invited on a quest to seek the still in the middle of your chaotic life. By getting out of your own way, learning to hear the voice of God and respond in a spirit-filled way. Because I know there are dreams hidden within you that you didn't even know you had. And those dreams lived out will change the world.
Joining Q Sciences
00:01:06
Speaker
Before we get into an interview with my pastor, Chuck Schli, today, I wanted to give you an update on our season sponsor for season two, which is Cindy Jenks, who is an ambassador for Q Sciences.
00:01:22
Speaker
I've been talking about Q Sciences so much over the past few weeks, just in regard to the amazing journey and the amazing difference that it has made in my health, specifically with my energy levels and my brain fog, that I texted Cindy the other day and I said, OK.
00:01:43
Speaker
God is really nudging me to maybe become an ambassador with Q Sciences myself. I believe in this company and this product and it has made such a difference in my life that I want to be part of the movement that and the difference that it's making in real people's lives and she was so excited so we went back and forth and.
00:02:04
Speaker
I am so excited to announce that I am officially now an ambassador as well on Cindy's team. So if you would love to try these products, you can now also reach out to me at Laura at seeking the still.com or Cindy at Cindy
00:02:22
Speaker
at myqwellness.com. We are both just so, so thrilled to be able to share with you these natural products with proprietary blends of herbs and amino acids and all of the goodness that your body needs to operate at its fullest capacity. So I invite you to check out myqwellness.com, look at the products there, and then ask us your questions. We can't wait to talk to you about
Interview with Pastor Chuck on Ministry and Mental Health
00:02:52
Speaker
it.
00:02:52
Speaker
But now it is time to get into today's episode.
00:02:57
Speaker
I am so excited today to be interviewing my pastor, Chuck Schli. Chuck has been my pastor for 20 years. I cannot believe it's been that long. But he saw me and walked with me through the journey over the past seven years. And I thought it'd be interesting to get a pastor's perspective. What is it like to minister to people who are going through a mental health, either diagnosis or struggle?
00:03:28
Speaker
So thanks Chuck for being here with me. Why don't you tell the listeners a little bit about what you do and maybe like, what is it like to work with Laura?
00:03:40
Speaker
Oh, all right. Well, first of all, thank you for letting me be a part of this conversation. And what's it like to work with Laura? That's my first thing. And that is a pleasure, nothing but a pleasure. I think Laura is just the gem and I bet you do too. And it's all true. It's all true. What's it like? Oh my gosh. Being a pastor is something that I got into
00:04:08
Speaker
Not because I thought I was all that, but I just saw the need. I love talking about Jesus and the word of God. And I thought, oh, maybe I'll do it for a year, maybe two years. I was a teacher for nine years before that. And I thought, okay, I'll try it. And I turn around and I've been doing it for 21 years now. And so I'm as surprised as anybody. I always would,
00:04:36
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Early on, I would come home often and talk to my wife and I said,
00:04:41
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I don't know how this happened, but all of a sudden people think I'm smart because they come to me with some major league problems, issues and concerns and things that I can't fix and can't handle. And I don't feel I'm that smart of a person to fix everybody. And so that was a little frustrating at first because you want to help, but I didn't feel
00:05:09
Speaker
And still, to this day, don't feel that I am the answer man for all of life's problems. I do have the answer, the ultimate answer, I have that. So it's a little bit of a challenge, I suppose. So I remember when I started struggling with the physical symptoms of anxiety, and I took some time off work. And by the way, I want to thank you and Messiah for
00:05:37
Speaker
giving me that grace of a few months to have time to really not figure things out, but give myself space to breathe and start seeing the doctors and trying the medications and all of that. I know not everybody has that grace in their life when they struggle to have their work say, it's okay, do what you need to do to take care of yourself. So thank you from the bottom of my heart for that
00:06:06
Speaker
that time that you've given me. And also for your understanding along the way, as I have ups and downs, you know, one thing I try to do now is be very honest, like when I'm going through a season that I'm struggling and I'll be like, okay guys, if you see me randomly crying, I'm okay. Like I'm just going through an anxiety flare. And I feel very thankful that I work in a place that allows me to be transparent like that and support me. So thank you for that.
00:06:34
Speaker
But I remember sending a text, because when you're in that state, your mind's not making sense, like things that shouldn't stress you out, feel like your world is ending. And I remember sending a text to probably you and Paul or other pastor at the time, maybe like Amy, and saying, you know, I'm not doing well, please pray for me. It was probably kind of like a cry for help and also just like,
00:07:04
Speaker
don't expect anything from me right now. Like, I can't get out of bed, you know, so this is bad, basically. But do you remember, like, like, what did you think was going on? At the time, like, because I hadn't really struggled with anxiety before. And then all of this came up. And I'm just curious, and you can be totally honest, like, were you like, what the heck or
00:07:27
Speaker
sure I'll try it's probably there's no one answer I remember it was at the auction where I mean first of all a little guilt little guilt because it's like what did we do to her did we
00:07:46
Speaker
pile on so much work that we as an organization or me as a person crushed her under this weight. That's what my initial very first thing was because it took place at a really high, a lot of stress moment and putting the school auction together because we're dependent upon the money to make the school go and it's a big, it's our ultimate fundraiser for the year and we budget for it. And so there's a lot at stake.
00:08:16
Speaker
And you were put in charge of it. And it was a great auction. Everything went well. But that night, you just had that deer in the headlights look. And I thought, oh my god, is this worth it? Is this worth it? Is this what we do to people? This is, you know, so some of that for sure. And then probably, and I still feel this way, which I think
00:08:45
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is one of the, you always look for like, at least I do, look for the good. I'm like, oh, we're learning quite a bit. Sorry that you had to be the test case just about depression and mental illness and mental health. And you've taught us a lot just by your life. And I still don't understand much of it other than,
00:09:12
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to say, I don't understand much of it. I think that might be for me, like pretty wise actually. Just say, oh, don't try to come in with answers, these bad answers. Just some quick hit of advice, like stay positive. Because it's just trite when you're looking at someone who is in just pain.
Faith and Mental Health Support
00:09:38
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There's nothing that comes between the ears that will come off as nothing but just trite. And I didn't want to do that to you. Although I probably was because you grasp at straws because you don't know how to fix it and you want to say,
00:10:00
Speaker
Hey, somehow, I don't know, you don't know, does she need a kick in the pants to get her going again? Does she need a little law? Like, hey, come on. People have suffered all around the world and they can get on with it and think about the people in the Great Depression and they were able to pull up their bootstraps and all that and so that's one idea.
00:10:22
Speaker
which doesn't seem to be very helpful. It sounds like piling on another rock on someone. Or is it some kind of just biblical wisdom you want to reach for? Hey, Lord, don't you know that in all things God works the good of those who love Him? Romans 8, 28, and you throw that on somebody and it sounds helpful, but
00:10:45
Speaker
I bet it probably isn't because you're like, it doesn't seem like God's working the good. Matter of fact, this seems just the opposite. My life's falling apart and my kids are freaked out and my husband doesn't know what to think. I remember a big part of me was really concerned about Justin, actually.
00:11:10
Speaker
That was, he was really the one, because I didn't know what to do for you that would be helpful, other than just be your friend and give you space and listen if you wanted somebody to listen, talk to. But I didn't have any, like, fix answers. And that was tough for a guy or a pastor because you want to fix everything. And so I was thinking about Justin. I bet he has pulled his hair out because
00:11:39
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guys in general married guys tend to want you as happy as your wife is just like moms and parents know they're as happy as their most unhappy child you also I'll speak for me I feel responsible
00:11:59
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for my wife's happiness. Like they told you that, like, you know, like better or worse. And, you know, it's kind of like your job is to make her life awesome.
00:12:14
Speaker
And that, I'm thinking, was what Justin must have been feeling. Like, oh, I'm failing at this. What am I doing wrong? And then maybe some anger, I'm guessing. I got this house and I'm working all these hours and I'm running here and there and this. And so I remember catching him on the field trip.
00:12:37
Speaker
And I don't know if I went on that field trip for that reason, but I really don't like field trips. And I have five children, so I've been on all the field trips. I didn't need to go on another field trip. But I knew that he was going. And when we were walking around, I don't know if it was Daniel Boonholm or, I forget, there's so many field trips. I forget which one. But I'm like, oh, I definitely pulled him aside and just said, man, how are you doing?
00:13:07
Speaker
And I don't know if I was this blunt, but because this has got to suck for you big time. So that was a big part of my prayers also, not just for you, but really for Justin also. Because that I could relate to, that I could kind of understand. Yes, it was hard for him. And it was interesting I interviewed him a few weeks ago and got his story. And it was really insightful to hear
00:13:35
Speaker
his frustration at what is going on and how did I suddenly become the mom and the dad. And he said it was funny. He said he felt like he now had three kids and I was the most needy of the three. So that was really insightful for me. So thank you for those prayers and just for giving him support.
00:14:03
Speaker
He needed it, yeah. And he still does. He has a lot on his shoulder. Yeah. Someone checking in. Well, I remember coming in like sitting right here where I am now and you sitting there and talking to you. And again, I was probably, at that time I was just fishing for any kind of
00:14:32
Speaker
enlightenment or just enough to get me through the day, just enough encouragement to get me through the day. I should have gone back to my journal, but you shared two Bible verses. One was about the deer. I just remember that it's about a deer
00:14:52
Speaker
I don't know, panting by the water or something like that. I don't know. But it was, it was amazing because I'm just reassuring here at you that, you know, it does come from God because I went for a walk later that day and I saw a deer. And then the next day my, at that time I was clinging to the Jesus calling devotional.
00:15:23
Speaker
And it was literally speaking to me every single day. And the next morning it was the same verse. So I came in, you gave me that verse. I saw the deer that night. And then it was my Jesus calling devotion. And those, I know you call them, what do you call them? God, um, winks or God winks. Yes. Like little treasures during that time. Those are the things that helped me keep going.
00:15:53
Speaker
And isn't it interesting? Like, I know that verse, just God gave it to you. It's not like you...
00:16:00
Speaker
Yeah, I'll have to look at it. But it was such an encouragement to me because it was like one more little confirmation that God sees me. He is working through this. He's going to get me through and all I have to do is like live moment by moment, take the next step, you know, and he's going to keep
00:16:26
Speaker
guiding me through. So I think that when we have people come to us who are struggling, it's important to ask God, what do you want me to say to them? Because we don't have the answers. I love that story because I can take zero credit for it. Absolutely none.
00:16:44
Speaker
Like, I don't even, that blows my mind how cool God is. I just love that. Coming to a sermon near you, I'll use that one someday when it comes up. That's not a bad idea, though, when people come to me and maybe their marriage is blown up, or maybe they screwed up royally in some other way.
00:17:13
Speaker
and they want to get back, or maybe they just want a life with Jesus. Maybe they've been away for a while and they want back in, you know, even though God never kicked him out. Or maybe it is some type of illness or whatever the thing is. I tell them, oh, pay attention.
00:17:37
Speaker
Pay attention to God working in your life right now, and you will be paying attention because you're hurting so much. And because you're hurting, you will be grasping for a little bit of God's involvement and these winks. I say they're like Easter eggs, you know, when you hide them for your children.
00:17:58
Speaker
and you set them all in the yard or in the house or whatever and you know where they are for the most part and then you set your little ones free and then you kind of stand behind the tree or out the window and or you just watch
00:18:12
Speaker
and for them to discover them and find them. And then sometimes they just walk right over them or pass them. And you're like, oh, you missed a good one. Oh, wait. And you just wait for them to discover it. And I think God does that, that he's constantly behind the tree and he's leaving us all these little notes, all these little insights that I'm with you, I'm for you, I love you.
00:18:39
Speaker
And usually when we're completely healthy and running around like we've got all these things to do, we totally walk over them. We step right on them. And we don't even see them. That song on the radio that you know, getting hurt so long or that verse or whatever the thing is. But when you're hurting,
00:18:59
Speaker
and going through a serious problem and really need God, you will see them all over the place. All of a sudden a bumper sticker in the car in front of you that you were going to go down that street and it says, you know, something like, I'm with you or I'm for you. And you're like, huh, or don't give up.
00:19:20
Speaker
Don't give up. I remember I was going through a tough patch and really wondering what to do with my life and all this and, you know, struggling with just mostly what am I doing? And just wanting to lead the ministry and maybe sell insurance or something, you know, I don't try to figure out what I'm good at and all this and really just wrestling with that. I was at Uganda and and
00:19:47
Speaker
We're just in Nowheresville, I mean nowhere in the middle of Africa and there's no traffic out in the country and riding along for hours and hours and I'm sitting in the front seat next to this buddy of mine and we pull up and there's this truck in front of us and a big, big sign that filled up the whole back of this truck, this pickup truck in front of us and it said, stick with it.
00:20:17
Speaker
I'm like, okay, okay, got it. But I think God's always doing that. Yeah. And so that's one thing to share with people that, oh, keep your eyes open, keep your ears open. And all of a sudden, these coincidences are very frequent.
00:20:38
Speaker
But they're there all along.
Empathy and Compassion in Caregiving
00:20:39
Speaker
They're there all along. And people will know, oh, you're not alone. That's so true and so important. I think as we wrap up, I'm wondering if you have any advice for people because you're I mean, I see people come into your office all the time. So you have people coming to you.
00:20:56
Speaker
telling you their deepest darkest secrets and struggling. For those caregivers out there who hear that every day, you know, they are the ones listening and they're the ones trying to help. How do you keep yourself filled and grounded enough to be able to take
00:21:20
Speaker
I mean, you're not taking the pain, but you're listening to it and you're praying for it. How do you keep yourself spiritually full so that you can support the people who are coming to you for help? One thing I do ask
00:21:36
Speaker
And I have to ask God regularly, which is, will you give me a heart that breaks like your heart? Because what happens to me, and I'm thinking many caregivers, is that you can grow numb to it and used to it, and
00:21:59
Speaker
So used to it that it doesn't break you like it used to and that scares me actually that that I can
00:22:10
Speaker
go on with my life pretty regular and why isn't this eating me up? Why isn't this keeping me up? Why isn't this stressing me out too? And I think you do need to be able to disengage and compartmentalize and for sure, you cannot be in the mud with everybody all the time and have a healthy life. No, we know that.
00:22:36
Speaker
But on the flip side, I don't ever want to get that compassion fatigue thing where it just doesn't bother me anymore. It should bother me. At least in the moment, it should really make me cry inside. And so I don't want to, I guess I'm muddying in a little bit. It's going to be on the one hand this, on the other hand that. But on the one hand,
00:23:07
Speaker
You have to be able to not get in the mud in order to help people pull them out of the mud. And on the other hand, I fear sometimes that I've gotten so used to it that I don't want to be a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. That's not what love is.
00:23:30
Speaker
One little idea that I do, it's in my own head, but I call it the trouble tree. And it sits at the door of my house. And when I come home, my kids need me. My wife needs me, or maybe they don't, but I need them. But they don't need me bringing in all my baggage, all my stresses, and all my worries and fears of everybody else's in my own too.
00:23:58
Speaker
And so I just take all my troubles and I hang them on the tree, just like I would like a Christmas ornament in my own head. I'm like, there's a tree. It's right to my side. I just kind of mentally leave them there. So I'll pick them up in the morning. And many times in the morning, they're not there anymore. They've blown away. And God has also given me a wonderful night. He has blessed me with the ability to forget
00:24:29
Speaker
I'm really good at forgetting. And a lot of people think of that as like, oh, that's too bad. That's a curse. I'm like, no, it is such a blessing that when it comes to people's problems, struggles, like
00:24:45
Speaker
sins that they've unloaded. I honestly can't remember them because my little brain isn't that big enough to hold it all. And so it just, one pushes the other one out and people will say, hey, you remember that time when I was so angry with you about this or that? I'm like,
00:25:04
Speaker
No, I honestly don't remember. It is. I think that's one of God's best kindnesses to me was the ability to forget. And I hope I can keep it for the rest of my life because it really is an advantage. I think also cut yourself some slack. You're not Jesus. You're not the thick soul. You're not
00:25:30
Speaker
You're just a friend man. I think the best advice sometimes is a hug I think that's a Bob Goff quote that the best advice you ever got When going through a tough time was a hug That one sticks with me like
00:25:45
Speaker
Oh, you don't need to be a genius. You don't need to be the ultimate problem solver. Will you just walk with somebody? Just give them a hug? It sounds lame. I don't know. When I'm going through a tough time, I don't necessarily even want to hear advice. I really don't. I just want you to know that you're with me and you like me.
00:26:10
Speaker
Just that you like me, you know, you don't even have to love me. Just that you like me a little bit, that's good enough.
Closing Remarks and Resources
00:26:15
Speaker
I love that, especially the trouble tree. That's a really good visual. I'm gonna think about that some more. But I really, there's something there about being able to, especially if you think of as you put the troubles on the tree, like that's God's tree. And so you're putting it in his hands. Yeah, if you really wanted to get Christianese about it, you'd call it a cross.
00:26:37
Speaker
Yes, right. Yeah. Cast your, yeah, cast your cares on the cross. Well, thank you so much. I hope that, um, you know, I hope it was a little fun for you just to kind of chat and I'm thankful for you in my life and thankful for the ministry that God has given you. So I'm glad that you stuck with it, like without signs. And, um,
00:27:04
Speaker
Yeah, thanks again. If you would love to hear more from Chuck, you can see his messages at messiahstcharles.org. And we'd love to have you tune in in some of the ministry that we do here. So services are online Sundays at 9 a.m. And we'd be happy for you to join in and connect to Jesus that way. So thanks, Chuck. My pleasure. God's best to everyone.
00:27:33
Speaker
I'm so glad that you tuned in today and I want to invite you to visit seekingthestill.com where you can subscribe for free to receive some meditations from me as well as the free twirl masterclass and also get some more information about the amazing Q science
00:27:53
Speaker
supplements that have really helped me take back my physical health. I'm so glad that you joined me today and I cannot wait until God brings us together again. Be still.