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The Reality Of Owning A Business With Jennifer Walsh [ARCHIVE]
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Another fun archive episode and this one is with Jennifer Walsh. She is the founder of Beauty Bar and many other businesses. She talks about her experience with owning a business and the struggles one goes through. There are so many really valuable lessons to take away from this episode so hope you guys like it. Today's episode is brought to you by BetterHelp - Betterhelp.com/listener Please subscribe and leave a review on audio platforms as well :) Apple Podcasts: http://apple.co/2TF3VnS Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2AfNQia Google Podcasts: https://bit.ly/3pmXw09 Amazon: https://amzn.to/2FKeu5X Follow the podcast: @wildandbasic on IG or "Wild & Basic Podcast" on YouTube
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Transcript
Jennifer Walsh's Beauty Bar Journey
00:00:14
Speaker
Hey guys, so welcome back to Wild and Basics. So today we have a guest, our first guest of 2022. Her name is Jennifer Walsh. She's the founder of Beauty Bar. She has so much to offer in this topic as she has founded a bunch of businesses
00:00:30
Speaker
especially in beauty business and she has gone through so much with her company and also she has learned so much along the way and I just think this is a very valuable episode from her experience as a business owner but as also consultant working with brands nowadays. She has also made so much connections over the years and she was talking about how important these are so there's definitely a lot to take away from this episode and I can't wait for you guys to hear it.
00:00:58
Speaker
So hi, Jennifer. Thank you so much for coming in the show. I'm so happy to be here with you. Thank you for asking me. Yeah, of course. I feel like because we are in the same community and I have seen you around so many times with Laura and I have seen it around with Caravan. So I was like, no, I really want to interview you and
00:01:18
Speaker
see what your journey is all about. I know you even though we haven't actually met, I feel like I have met you before. Oh my God, that makes me so happy. Also because I watch your stories all the time because I'm so connected with nature. I love nature. So we're going to definitely talk about that later. But yeah, that made me so happy.
00:01:40
Speaker
Also, I love that.
Challenges and Decisions in Selling Beauty Bar
00:01:42
Speaker
So you are a founder and you have founded Beauty Bar and you also started his own Air Beauty Expert TV series, right? Correct. Yeah. So why did you decided to sell Beauty Bar to Quitzy? Am I pronouncing it correctly? Yes. Yes. That's a really good question. It's a big question. And it's
00:02:05
Speaker
Not always easiest one to answer. So I started beauty bar the idea for it back in like 1997 And it was that time where there were first on no one was really selling indie beauty brands and indie beauty brands I'm talking about our Stila Bobby Brown
00:02:20
Speaker
Trish McAvoy, Urban Decay, like these were like the early guns and of course like Fresh and L'Oxitan and other brands. But I started it and it was challenging the very first year because no one knew what I was and they didn't know what an apothecary was so I was trying to teach people that it was a store that sold independent brands and
00:02:42
Speaker
And it took some time, took some time for traction for people to come in and want to spend $10 on a bar of soap versus $1.99 from Dial or Ivory or whatever we had at the drugstore at the time. So I grew the business and had
00:02:58
Speaker
a lot of employees in multiple locations but 2008 was tough with the the crash of the market and some stores are doing better than other stores so it was Beauty Bar became the very first omnichannel beauty brand so it was a chain of stores a website and a weekly tv platform
00:03:15
Speaker
So I had this opportunity to have this TV segment be my educational tool, if you will. And that drove people to my stores. And it was really fun. So people come in and say, oh, I saw your segment on TV. Where are these products? I just saw. And again, no one was on TV yet talking about beauty. So that was also a whole other beast unto itself. And so when I sold it in 2009, 2010,
00:03:39
Speaker
The market was tough. Some stores were doing better than others. You started with the big question. I found out my CFO was not paying the bills and also not
00:03:56
Speaker
putting the money where I was supposed to be. So I unearthed a lot of things that were financially hurting the business. And I had to, I actually literally had to sell the company to save it. And when Quincy called, they just started diapers.com and were about to launch soap.com, but they wanted a high end mix of beauty.
00:04:17
Speaker
And I think at the time they knew they wanted to sell to Amazon. So when they bought me, then Amazon came and bought Dipers.com, Soap.com, and beautybar.com. Ultimately because Amazon wanted to get into the beauty industry and wanted to have high-end brands on the platform. So yeah, so selling it was really challenging.
00:04:37
Speaker
No, of
Realities of Running a Business
00:04:38
Speaker
course. It was a tough time. It was like taking your baby and giving it away to someone and they didn't really want the stores anymore. They didn't care about retail. They responded to the platform, the online platform, because I had the platform online way before even Macy's, Neiman's, big department stores were doing online sales.
00:04:56
Speaker
Yeah, it was an interesting time. Yeah, no, I bet. I feel like even nowadays, it just feels easier to start an online business because there's so many tools out there. But I feel like there's so much behind the scenes that people don't see until you started, until you started. I just feel like the taxes, the management, the fees, I feel like this business, I went to business school, but I feel like when you do it yourself,
00:05:26
Speaker
It's a completely different story because I feel like you have to keep the business afloat. And if you don't pay bills, and there are always bills to pay with business, I feel like there's always something. And you're like, wait, I have to pay taxes on my chair that I just bought? Wait a second. I'm getting taxed on a chair, or insurance.
00:05:47
Speaker
I had lots of employees and I had to take care of the insurance for the staff and overhead. And then one of my stores, so my stores were in Florida and one store was a block off the ocean. So I had to have higher insurance because of flood and hurricanes. So I thought, oh, you're right. So there's like little things that you really, you don't know until you get into it. Exactly. When you start a company, you start your business and you're selling your items. You're like, wait, what?
00:06:12
Speaker
How much is going out the door every month? So yeah, you kind of learn as you go, definitely. And I feel like also the biggest difference is like people are always so much focusing on the sales. Like you could be making a lot of sales, but you always have to look down to see like, am I really breaking even even or am I making any profit? Like,
00:06:32
Speaker
I feel like that's the biggest thing because nowadays, especially because I spend so much time on TikTok, probably more than I should. And I feel like people are always showing like, oh, I had this many sales or I had this much this month. But I'm like, that's very misleading because you could be making a lot of sales or business could be doing well. But if you're not managing it well,
00:06:55
Speaker
100%. I'm so glad you just said that. I'm so glad you said that because that is exactly, it's like that, you know, the make believe behind like, Oh, look at, look at all my sales. It's great. But first of all, did you borrow money from anyone? Do you have any investors that you need to pay back all the, like, it's a wholesale and how much are your, you know, your costs of goods? So what do you making? And
00:07:15
Speaker
how much is that piece of plastic or that piece of wood or whatever it is, all their components to what you make cost money and how much, yeah, how much is your bottom line really making is is very different than what people sometimes show, especially online. Exactly. And I think one thing, at least I'm learning and please correct me, I'm wrong. I just feel like more you grow your business or like I feel like first couple of years, it almost feels like having a baby. It's like you really have to almost like hold their hand and like walk them through because
00:07:44
Speaker
It's not going to work without you. Like it doesn't work by itself. But I feel like more and more you have to sort of detach yourself from like personally attached to the business versus just thinking as its like own and something could happen or things could change. I feel like that's like same way of saying like killing your like darlings because like
00:08:06
Speaker
It feels like that sometimes when things don't work out. Like I know with my case is like, it's been, I think a business of like two years or something. And there's always issues that like it would never would have happened when you first started. But I feel like when you're in the growing pain stage, like.
00:08:22
Speaker
there's so many things pops up and you always have to think about what makes sense, not because it's gonna make you happy or you're so connected to
Balancing Passion and Profitability
00:08:30
Speaker
it, right? I'm so glad you're bringing, you're hitting all these nails right on the head, my friend. It's so good because we get so married to the idea of the thing that you're doing and you're making and you're like, this is it and this is the way it's gonna be and this is gonna be successful and it's gonna be great.
00:08:46
Speaker
But again, if you're not making the money and if you're not doing the work around it that has to be done, sometimes you have to kill off the darlings or you have to say, you know, I love this, but it's not, it's not making me money or it's costing me more money than I'm making. And is that really a business? And is that really profitable? Is that really worthy of your time?
00:09:05
Speaker
I mean, you can do a lot of work for nonprofits or do philanthropic work, but there's very difference between doing volunteer work and pretending to actually work when your business is actually costing you more than you're making. And you have to really step, and it's hard to say how attached you are. You just say how attached you are to that thing or the business, and you might have to step back and say, it's not working. For the betterment of your mental health, your financial health, and all those things that are connected, you're thinking, oh my God,
00:09:33
Speaker
Is it really all worth it? Exactly. And I think this business, people are always immediately thinking about the money first instead of thinking about how it is affecting their life or just their mental health overall, because I think maybe I'm just so used to it because ever since even I was a kid, like I think maybe I don't know, I was 10. I think I had the website and like, I mean, maybe they were paying me in cents. Then I had a YouTube channel was paying something.
00:09:59
Speaker
And my parents were always like, Oh my God, he's ridiculous. Like, no, like he needs to study something like computer science or something like that makes a lot of like more reasonable opportunity. But I feel like I was always into that market of like having something on my own and make it work. Like that was always in my agenda. But I think
00:10:19
Speaker
more, more you learn is that like how much that adds on to your plate. Like I think you don't realize it because like, I feel like that's why I also see it in so many people nowadays. Not like I know so much about it, but like, I feel like when people first start, they get so excited. They're like, Oh my God, I'm so excited. Like it's going to be great and everything. And again, I don't want to be cynical because I want people to succeed. But I think also like, I think you really have to be very
00:10:46
Speaker
like careful and that's why I always ask people so many times like whenever I have an idea even when I design something I literally send it to like I don't know maybe 10 15 people that I know of I'm like I want to get everyone's opinion it could be stupid like tell me my face like that I want to know because yeah like it's not gonna hurt your feelings because it's business you have to think about it like that right like what would you say
00:11:09
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I also trust the right people who, because I remember when I started my first business, everyone told me it was the dumbest idea they'd ever heard. No one will ever shop for beauty outside of a department store. Hope you don't quit your day job. Don't do this. Big mistake. I mean, everyone told me not to do a beauty bar.
00:11:27
Speaker
But when you feel something so deeply in your gut that you know, you know you have to go forward. So I think it's always important to trust the right people who have either walked in your shoes before, who have started their own businesses. So make sure you surround yourself when you're asking the right people the questions that you want. Because sometimes they'll say, no, or yes. And they might help you say, OK, what do you need to achieve this? And they'll sit with you and say,
00:11:50
Speaker
What are the parameters of success for you? What is success for you right now? Because some people say, oh, I want a new car. Or I want to buy a house. And you think, that shouldn't be the answer to why you start something. It should be because you're passionate about something. And you love something that you want to do it for a long time. And I see a lot of people create, especially in beauty, create a beauty brand just to hopefully sell it or flip it in two to five years.
00:12:16
Speaker
I think that's the worst case scenario. Why don't you want to grow it and make it part of your passion and do something because you love it and you want to do it for the rest of your life. Maybe because I'm old school and I think that way that you want to do something for a long time and not just flip it in two years, but you're right. Ask the right questions of the right people that you think will have walked in your shoes or walked in paths similar to yours that will give you the right answers that you need.
00:12:40
Speaker
And that's why I feel like you can definitely tell when someone is talking about their business, how passionate they are about the certain thing versus it's just like they are there so they can sell it. And I just feel like it's also like there's nothing wrong with that, obviously, because people are making a ton of money, you know, just selling it. It's almost like flipping a house, like you are building it, then you're just selling it and someone gets it, especially because nowadays it's like,
00:13:04
Speaker
Sephora, like they're literally buying bunch of companies under their umbrella. But again, they could also like dissolve very easily. So like, then you won't have a name for yourself. It just really depends on like, you know, what you are focusing on. But would you say like that even just like that?
Reflection on Beauty Bar's Potential Future
00:13:20
Speaker
If it was still going like really well in terms of finances, would you have still sold it the beauty bar? That's a great question. Um,
00:13:30
Speaker
I don't know. I had already had it for 12 years, and things were changing. I was living in Florida at the time. I probably still would have had it, but I don't know for how much longer. I was personally owned, so I didn't have any investors, so it was fully my own company. If I wanted to grow it, things started getting more challenging. Blue Mercury's were popping up, and more Ultas were starting. I don't know. I think it'd be very different, but I'm really glad
00:13:59
Speaker
things turned out the way they did because I'm in a very, very, very different place than I ever thought I would be. I was married at the time. I had a stepson. My life was really, really different 12 years ago and it's been exactly 12 years since I sold. Well, I'd say 11.
00:14:15
Speaker
10 or 11, somewhere between 10 and 12 years I sold the business. My life is very different than it was. I think that's for everybody that lives 12 years down the line, your life is very different. That's a really good question. I don't know if I'd still have it or not, or I'd want to keep it much longer. Things were definitely changing. I think we all ebb and flow, and we want different things for ourselves. I think I was in that heart space where I was
00:14:37
Speaker
maybe wanting to do more. Yeah. And I feel like it's maybe also like, it's like a next step in your life or career. Because I think also when you think about it, more you want to grow your business, more partner you need to have.
00:14:50
Speaker
Even if you're a millionaire, you still need to have because when you think about it, especially in business, it's not sometimes so much about the money. It's about the connections you have so they can help you do it, especially when it comes to distribution. 100%. Yeah. For distribution, they are always asking for so much stock. Obviously, you need to have cash for that.
00:15:11
Speaker
But not just that, but even if they wanted to carry it, you need to have someone.
Networking and Brand Identity
00:15:17
Speaker
Even if they love your product, they might not even want to carry it. I feel like it's more comes to who you know. Yeah, exactly. And that takes time to then understand the market well enough to say, hey, I'm going to sell my product on your shelf next to XYZ brand because I'm not going to cannibalize your business, but I'm going to help it grow.
00:15:35
Speaker
And I can be an add-on. You always want to make sure you're not going to cannibalize someone else's business and what makes you unique on their store shelves or online platforms. So you have to kind of know exactly where you want to sell. And it is that relationship, like you just said. So it's networking. And that in itself takes years sometimes, like years to get to know the department stores or platforms or
00:15:57
Speaker
you know, shopping channels, any shopping channel online, whether it be Talk Shop Live now or HSN or whatever it might be, there's a lot that goes into those relationship building moments that can take years. Yeah, exactly. No, exactly. And I feel like even nowadays is like even if you have connections, you still need to make sure that like your product is somewhat unique or like it makes sense to the target audience that you're thinking of. Like there's so many like check boxes that you have to think about.
00:16:26
Speaker
Yeah, and people don't think about that. There's like, you have to be unique, 100%. And you have to have a reason for being. I think that's a key part, too. People are just creating stuff. I'm like, what's your key differentiator between this lip gloss and that lip gloss? And I think I've always felt that brands that have a great founder story, I've always, when I had Beauty Bar, I always said I never sold a thing in my life. Never sold anything, but I told stories. So I would always say, oh, this difference between
00:16:53
Speaker
this lavender face cream, this lavender face cream, as you know, this one was created on this farm, and it, blah, blah, XYZ. And this one was created by this founder, blah, blah, blah. So I think everyone has to have a story and why these items are created is the reason I'll be like, Oh, I feel connected to it. I feel connected to you because of what you created, or they connected to him or her or whatever, because of your why. And I think that's
00:17:16
Speaker
That really helps you navigate through the waters for sure. Yeah. And I feel like especially nowadays, like with like newer generation and everything, I just think even, I mean, I was always like drawn more into the story and the field behind a brand when I'm making any sort of purchase. But I know like when it comes to certain things, people always like this is the function of the product and I'm just going to buy it because it's just, I'm buying it for the pure function.
00:17:45
Speaker
Sure. But there are some products, especially when it comes to fashion or even just beauties, like there's so many things I pay attention a lot like the aesthetics and how it looks and everything, also the ingredient for sure. But I think especially with fashion, I feel like when there's so much story from the designer that they tell like Virgil Abla, he recently passed away. That was one of my favorite designers and like
00:18:08
Speaker
I never, I was never really a fan of Louis Ton. Like, I mean, it's a great brand, but I never knew it until he came along. Then he really, he really made that brand like what it was and then Off-White and everything. I feel like he really made that.
00:18:23
Speaker
I don't know, like story that I did great storyteller, right? So charismatic. And you kind of were drawn to him because of like, he was so passionate about it. So you're so right. And I feel like it's just like also because this designer, a lot of people are thinking it's all about like tacky stuff, like, or just says, Gucci, Dolce, cabana, like, and you buy it because you want to show up.
00:18:45
Speaker
But he changed it up with just like saying simple things on a designer and charging so much money. But it wasn't about the money. It was about the design, that how simple it is, ironic it is. And that's why I feel like people would want to buy it, especially so much younger demographic versus like there are people who are buying most Louis Vuitton. They're like older than like because they can't afford that much money to buy it. So that's why I completely agree with you. I feel like when I hear the story or
00:19:13
Speaker
something behind it that resonates with me. And obviously I would wanna support that brand versus. Yeah, I think that will always
Storytelling and Consumer Connection
00:19:21
Speaker
be too. Like I think that's especially for fashion and especially for beauty, not so much for home goods, I don't think, but I think that beauty and fashion really had this great ebb and flow of storytelling and people are so drawn to the designers and their passion for their creations. And they're so beautiful, like so beautiful in their simplicity or there may be
00:19:41
Speaker
insane, you know, whatever it might be. I think they're just their passion for what they do is like draws you in. And if people are no matter your age, young and old, the like are like, Oh, I love this because you're drawn to it for whatever reason it is, aesthetically pleasing or something else. But yeah, like I feel like also some of them are just so aspirational, like you would want to try it. I feel like that's why it's just changing so much in the like industry nowadays is like it's not becoming so much about the
00:20:09
Speaker
Oh my God, how ridiculous the price is. It's more about how simple it is and how you cannot even tell it's a designer, but it is a designer. Okay. You're going to laugh because there are some days I just love walking down Madison Avenue because I live pretty close to Madison Avenue. I'm on every side of Manhattan. And so in the mornings when I go for a walk, I kind of come back down Madison Avenue and just see what's new in the window. I'm like, wow, I just spent so much money with my eyes right now. Like, oh, I could look so good in that. I'd feel so good in this.
00:20:37
Speaker
So I can like, oh, I just spent so much money with my eyes before 9am. That felt really good. Yeah, that's what I love in no shopping. Oh my God. And especially when there's no one else on the street, it's kind of I'm like, oh God, that looks like that's going to feel nice. Whatever. So yeah, I always say I can spend a lot of money with my eyes. No, that's why I feel like people don't realize like branding is everything. It's not just about the
00:21:02
Speaker
the price tag you're putting on, but you can't justify the price tag, not always the quality, but the way the psychology behind it. That's why people buy it. A million percent. That's why people are so intrigued with brands and brand building and how do you tell the story and how do you connect people to what you're selling and the why you're selling it and how it's visually
00:21:23
Speaker
in a position I kind of love because I've been a retailer my whole life. I still love retail and I always, always love retail. I love to see how people sell. So even when I walk by some stores and I see boxes and then all the store at night, I just kind of cringe. I'm like, Oh, I can't even, I still have these like visceral reactions when I see things I would never have in my own stores. Yeah.
00:21:43
Speaker
How would you say like you would do like you you did the branding for beauty bar and like for any future business that you're thinking of like you always like maybe you have a checklist or something that you go through before you do it.
00:21:57
Speaker
I think it all depends on what it is, what the product is because I feel like I've created a beauty bar. I created a brand of collegiate beauty products. So I still have some over here on my shelf of things I've created in the past. So it was very much in line with, it was Bath and Body Care for like University of Florida FSU and it's very, looks like I had to deal with the colors and the packaging was, it was
00:22:22
Speaker
It was really fun to do because I had a great team that were designers to help me create the packaging for each school. It was so different. It had to be the right colors, pantone of that school. It was fun, but it took almost two years to develop and create. It was called Pride and Glory.
00:22:38
Speaker
That was great. But I think everything's different than I had. I saw this crystal company with a friend of mine, a state of energy crystals. But since the pandemic, it was hard to get the crystals. And so my partner in the crystal company moved to Pennsylvania. So I think everything's different depending on
00:22:54
Speaker
what it is and how you market it and, you know, what gets you excited and what gets people excited. And there's just storytelling depending on what it is you're selling and creating. And also you mentioned like working with a team. How would you say like, especially with your business, obviously, but also with other, like if you're doing consulting and everything, how was it that different?
Effective Delegation and Leadership
00:23:14
Speaker
Like,
00:23:15
Speaker
working as a team. I know it's just so hard, especially with your own business when it comes to delegating the tasks versus if it is another business that you are just helping out.
00:23:25
Speaker
Yeah, that's interesting because you'll understand. Having a team is, I loved having a team. Like I had a huge team and then I had a small team. And I think it's so important because you get to brainstorm together and delegating and who does what really well and have people around you that are really, really good at what they do. Like purchase ordering so that the way they have orders getting out, like things are great. And it's so different than being a part of someone else's team, the consulting. And I worked for a beauty brand over in Amsterdam for a year.
00:23:53
Speaker
And they had stores around the world. So that was really an interesting, collaborative, exciting project to be a part of. And it was huge. It was a big, big project for me. And I was scary and daunting. But again, I'm listening to what their needs are. And I'm a consultant coming out. So they hired me to do a really good job.
00:24:11
Speaker
Yeah. And they pay you a lot of money to do the really good job. And sometimes you have to tell them things that they didn't want to hear, which was hard. But they hired you for a reason. And so you have to kind of say, well, you hired me because I know what I'm doing in this certain area. So let me do that work. And I know it's going to work out. And it's hard. It's consulting is hard. And it's also about expectations, right? So when you consult for another brand, sometimes expectations are different. You have to make sure there's checklist and
00:24:38
Speaker
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00:24:55
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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00:26:18
Speaker
It's definitely different going from internal teams to working or consulting. What advice would you give to someone, novice, maybe consulting, but with their own business when they are trying to delegate the task or like have to hire out? Like what are something that they can look for or like, or when do you know you need the help to? That's a, you're so good at, you got some good questions, my friend. You're a good business person. I know you've been doing this for a long time because I followed you. I've been following for so long and I,
00:26:48
Speaker
I know you get it and you get the ins and outs are not easy. I think delegating is one of the hardest things for people to do. So when I speak to lots of different teams, I think that the one thing that I always get over and over again is I have a hard time delegating. And I get that because sometimes you're so in your funnel of what you're doing that
00:27:05
Speaker
It's either hard to take the time to educate people on delegate, like what you need to do here, do this, do this or that. Um, but I think that's the most important thing is delegating properly to the right people. And I think you, you know it when you're like, you're taking all the work on, even though you've hired people to help you, unless you tell them how to do it and what to do, um, they're not going to do the job that you hired them to do. And I think that everyone that you hire on.
00:27:29
Speaker
needs to have that purpose, they need to know exactly what their job is. So if you hire people, because I've seen it done, I've done it myself when I first started, I was like, I need to hire you for this job. Yet I was still doing the work, because I was almost feeling bad that they were doing it, even though I was paying them the paycheck to do the job. So I think it's important to give everyone what their job is. But
00:27:50
Speaker
People will follow your lead if you are a kind leader, a generous leader. I don't mean generous in terms of financial, but you wouldn't ask them to do a job that you wouldn't do yourself.
00:28:01
Speaker
Um, I think it's all about collaboration for sure. No, that, that is for sure. And I feel like also like when it comes to, um, hiring too, you always have to think about like, don't just hire right away. It's like, because you might be also wasting that money or the budget that you allocated for it because you really have to be careful because it also process. That's why like, I feel like it's a process to even put the job description to make sure the person knows what they're going to do and not just like.
00:28:28
Speaker
Hired them out because you need to help then you're gonna look around to see Yeah, because the people around you I think that's the key right is you're gonna spend a lot of time with these people So you're gonna have to hire sometimes I say hire slowly but fire quickly So take the time to know that you really really need this job taken care of because you can't do it any longer or
00:28:50
Speaker
whatever this might, the reason might be, but to really make sure you hire the right person because you're going to be spending, well, if we ever go back to an office, I don't know, but you're
Synergy in Business Partnerships
00:28:58
Speaker
going to be spending a lot of time either on Zooms or phone calls or whatever, maybe in person or not with these people. And these are going to be, they say people are, you know, your office people, not your family, but you are spending a lot more time with these people than you would anyone else. And you have to make sure you can,
00:29:15
Speaker
not only get along, but understand each other's ebb and flow. How can you work together synergistically to make the business successful? That's often hard to find just the right people to help you be that balance or that person being your balance to make sure you're the right expectations of the job and for the business. This is what I want to do in the next five years. I hope to scale to this size and I want you to be that person to help me get there.
00:29:39
Speaker
Exactly. And that's why it's sometimes hard with startups or new businesses because you're wearing so many hats. You're used to wearing so many hats. And sometimes I feel like you almost do the same with the person you are hiring. You tell them it's the one job description, but then somehow it turns into another job.
00:30:00
Speaker
True. That's so true. Yeah. And I think too, when I, when I had a lot, when I'm the big team of people, their first job was to sell. Like they were on the sales floor, but I always, I used to always ask, what else do you love to do? Like what's your hobby? So I had some girls that were loved graphic art. They loved photography. So I'm like, okay, good. I want you to not only sell, but I want you to do what you love. So would you be our, like our photographer for the business or would you be our graphic designer for the business and be able to, you know, compensate them accordingly as well. But
00:30:28
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's important that you hire for the right job, but those jobs might also entail be like, OK, I need you to do more things once you once you begin to grow. Yeah, that's for sure. That's for sure. How would you say like you manage when there's like a like a conflict? Now is that I guess like the people you're working with, but generally with business, like how do you try to, I guess, like, I don't know, stay calm while we're trying to keep the businesses afloat?
00:30:56
Speaker
I've had lots of advice to like some big things that happen that are like, how do you then, um, because it's, it's very easy when people attack your business or when things happen in business and you're like, Oh my gosh, this is like, you know, your life force. Like this is what you created for not only yourself to provide for yourself, but now you've got teams to provide for. And you're kind of, you're in this place where you're in charge of everyone's like the roof over the head and it's a lot of pressure.
00:31:23
Speaker
I think it's important to get to the, there's a conflict to address it right away. I think that's the biggest thing because I have done it in my past and I've seen people do it saying this is an issue, but they skirt it. And it will, skirting something under the table or under the rug will continue to grow until you address it. So I think addressing the issue in a very, very calm manner. Because in business things can get really heated and I've always tried to be,
00:31:49
Speaker
as level-headed as possible being as kind as possible but also be stern because I would say don't ever mess with my business like whatever don't mess with my family don't mess with my business because this is like who you what you love to do and your passion so I just think addressing the issue right away is the most important thing but do it in um do it in a kind way do it in a calm way maybe they weren't kind or calm with their
00:32:12
Speaker
reason for whatever the friction might be. But if you come at it with kindness or generosity or some different angle than anger, I think that's, you know, the reason like why did this, why did this happen? Or what do you think was the root cause of this and really getting to the root of something why there is conflict and then kind of trying to find a way to dissolve it so it doesn't get into something much, much bigger.
00:32:35
Speaker
Yeah. Another thing I would ask, I feel like because now it's so much harder is because I feel like before everything was more like retail stores, just like people
Online Business Challenges
00:32:44
Speaker
go. But nowadays, almost so many stores now just focusing on online sales. But the hard part is like nowadays,
00:32:51
Speaker
First of all, everyone can copy your business because, you know, they can just go. But also like nowadays, even they can find your information and customer data because everything is connected to Pixel, like Facebook Pixel, Google Pixel data. If you're good at it, you can definitely, you know, get a data out of it. But other difficult part is like, if you can be like a unique business, like let's just say you have, I don't know, unique product or whatever.
00:33:13
Speaker
then there's a big corporation looks at it. Instead of even offering you to buy anything, they can do something very similar just like that because they own this entire supply chain. And the product that takes amount for you to create maybe takes three months because or four months getting a sample or anything. For them, it will maybe take one month to just create. Yeah, it's just very sad. I mean, honestly, because you work hard for to create something so unique, but then someone else comes along to create it.
00:33:43
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I don't know, like anything that you would say that's like, I mean, it's very hard honestly to like fight against it because it's a big corporation. Obviously, they can definitely, I don't know. That's why I feel like sometimes even I agree with like, it's better that you even sold it earlier because it's very hard to compete with bigger corporation because obviously they have lawyers, they have so much money that they can do things at that very higher capacity versus as a small business.
00:34:09
Speaker
Yeah, small business is hard. It's really, it's really, really hard these days. So like you just said, like, how do you be that differentiator and has something really, really unique to the market and then someone else has to copy and sell it or whatever. So I think it's important that you always like, you timestamp exactly what you create when you create it, have everything, you know,
00:34:26
Speaker
I always, I had lots of lawyers around and trying to help me grow my business and even trademarking, you know, the names and, you know, slogans and all that kind of stuff. Because there are many times people try to steal my names from me for different things. And I said, Oh, no, I trademarked it this time. But a specific product is really hard. It is you have to kind of really, and then to kind of go against him and say, I've seen it happen on social media, come people come out and say, look, so and so just stole literally stole my, you know, my my dress, or like they
00:34:56
Speaker
copied my jacket I just made. And it's a big guy against a little guy like David and Goliath. And again, they have all the lawyers. So I think you have to create what you want to create because out of passion, but you have to be aware that it could happen. And what are you going to do if it does happen? And you kind of have to think about those things ahead of time, which kind of is hard to do. But I always think if you create something really, really unique and really interesting,
00:35:20
Speaker
How do you protect it? Exactly. You've got to talk to lawyers for sure. Yeah. And that's why I feel like sometimes I think about like, don't just think about the function of the product and the quality because everyone can replicate
Unique Retail Experiences
00:35:32
Speaker
that. Technically, if they find out or just buy it from you, you won't even know who's buying it. But it's very hard to replicate the psychology or the atmosphere or whatever you're creating for your store. That's the difficult part.
00:35:50
Speaker
Absolutely. I was, um, I think that's it. I love, I love looking at stores. I love seeing like how people create and why they create them. What do you feel when you walk into the environment? And it's really interesting to see that the feeling and like, why are big boxes kind of maybe going away? Um, because it doesn't, there's no feeling there and people want to have an experience in a store. They want to feel something. They want to do something in the store rather than just shop or they want to hear a certain sound or they want to
00:36:15
Speaker
feel connected to the place and space and the products are selling there. So I've always felt very connected to certain stores and like, okay, now I feel, I can feel the space and the music's great, the vibe is great. So how do people, can people replicate that? Yes and no.
00:36:31
Speaker
It's really interesting. You just had the psychology of why people go into a shop, where you walk by a store in New York City, that store is empty, but the store right next to it is packed. So why? Exactly. I mean, there's two giant retailers, like Sephora and Alta. You immediately
00:36:46
Speaker
know the exact difference, not even just seeing it as Sephora or Alta, but when you walk in, you know it's Alta or you know it's Sephora. It's very, very easy to tell, especially the way even they're putting up the products and everything. I mean, they're both very big retailers, but still, you know the difference. You know how the feeling and it is.
00:37:10
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. And then even like boutique stores, I love going into smaller, smaller chain stores, even when you say small chains, but just like smaller local stores. I just love, and plus you kind of get to know the people. If you shop there long enough, because there are some places I like to shop in Florida that I go visit or
00:37:29
Speaker
upstate New York or different parts of the country that I love going to the local store owners and just saying, hi, I'm back. What do you have that I need to buy? What's new? I haven't been here in six months, or now pandemic times. It's been two years, so I haven't been here. I'm glad you guys are still alive. I've been around.
00:37:44
Speaker
Oh, it's so wild. Exactly. So speaking of these, I want us to mention, what are you thinking about the beauty industry at
Trends in the Beauty Industry
00:37:54
Speaker
the moment? I know so much has obviously changed, and you have probably seen everything from the start. So what would you say you are seeing the trends or differences or the way it's going? What are some of your thoughts? It's interesting, right? I'm seeing a lot, of course,
00:38:12
Speaker
direct-to-consumer is really so big right now. But even though people are going back to retail and want to do retail. So I see a lot of direct-to-consumer brands that are coming out.
00:38:22
Speaker
that they want to have a footprint online. But I think in the next six months, two year after they do that, they're going to also have a footprint, um, a brick and mortar location. Um, because I think you need to have that as part of the story as at least one location in person and the rest can be online. So I'm seeing a lot of stories around how are people going to grow their brick and mortar, um, you know, in the next two to four years.
00:38:44
Speaker
I'm a part of a retailer group from a lot of old, say old executive, but old people or people, I should say that we're CEOs of big brands. So we all get together once a month and talk about the state of retail. And it's interesting to see that people are doing a lot online, but they're definitely going back into retail the next next year or two. But of course, there's so many beauty brands right now that are launching every single day. It's hard to keep up with.
00:39:09
Speaker
who they are and why they are and what they're doing and what's their difference. And I'm like, probably like Europe, but my apartment's full of beauty products. I've got products all around me that have been sent to me this week alone of try this out. So that's been crazy. Cause I've been doing that for 25 years of, Hey, try this out. And, uh, there's some products I just love. And of course, and, and that has a lot to do with age ranges too. Like what I use when I was 25 is very different than what I'm using today. And, uh, so.
00:39:37
Speaker
age ranges and colors and why. But I think it's going to be interesting too how we're going to sell products in the metaverse. I'm still kind of trying to figure beauty in the metaverse out. So that's going to be fascinating. Yeah, I think so too. I think it's going to be, I mean, it sounds really cool, but I'm curious to see how that will be.
00:39:55
Speaker
Yeah, I'm with you. I'd rather in person the metaverse if you ask me, but that's just me. Yeah, I feel like there are certain products obviously you don't need the retail for because it's so obvious that you don't have to try, but I feel like when it comes to something like beauty, fashion, it's
00:40:10
Speaker
almost imperative to have it because you have to feel it or you have to touch it because this beauty especially like you can make the product look so good with packaging as soon as you touch the texture or you put it on your skin you know it's bad or not like
00:40:29
Speaker
100%, oh my gosh, the smell of the tackiness. I might not be malleable. This sunscreen, I'm so pet peeve when it comes to sunscreen. I love mineral sunscreen because it's good for the reef. It doesn't, but there are so many sunscreens. It's so sticky and it gives a white cast. The thing is I want to support, but I feel like there's always calls and everything, but you can immediately tell when it's a bad sunscreen or hence you have to try it in the retail.
00:40:56
Speaker
absolutely and like then certain certain creams I use late at night because they're so very emollient on my skin so I had to be like okay let me just lay back and let it dry before I like put my head on my pillow um so yeah you had to kind of know that that's that tactileness like you said of a product and I think that's
00:41:13
Speaker
Yeah, you can see people like show it, you know, in their videos or on their own skin. But again, everyone's skin is so different. And where we are in life is so different. So what are you what are you willing to, how much time do you want to take to put your skincare routine together or makeup? And of course, that's changed for a lot of us now.
00:41:29
Speaker
And how much time do you want to spend and how much money do you want to spend on your makeup and skincare? It's really, it's interesting to see how things are ebbing and flowing. Yeah, for sure. So speaking of that, you have such a great skin. So please tell us your skincare routine or, you know, anything that... Hold on, let me put my glasses on. Are you sure about that? It must be the camera or the lighting.
00:41:55
Speaker
No, you do. You seriously do. I try everything out to be honest. One of my favorite brands is Indie Lee. I love Indie Lee's products, her Vitamin C. My dear friend Ron Robinson has this Vitamin C treatment that I love too. I've seen that one. Ron has been a really long time friend of mine. So when he came out with this, I remember him talking about it for like two, three years before he did.
00:42:19
Speaker
really, you're going to do this. Okay. And a very crowded market. And he did it. And he's been doing so well. And again, like he's the founder voice. And he said, you know, a man talking about vitamin C. And I love, I love that he has, you know, put his stake in the ground of like why he created it. He's a chemist first. And he saw there was a need in the market. And I love that he is not 25. Like he's in his fifties. And he's a man of color. And he's like, I'm doing this. And he has a lot to say. And I think that's so cool. And I'm so happy for him.
00:42:49
Speaker
And he's being carried out like retailers, like very big retailers. Retailers, a lot of stuff online. A lot of influencers love this stuff. I mean, I used to be on Clubhouse with them all the time last year when we were all doing Clubhouse every day. So it was kind of fun. We'd be on stage together. So that was an interesting time when everyone was on Clubhouse too.
00:43:06
Speaker
I do a lot of Indie Lee. I'm trying lots of new products right now because it is 15 degrees in New York City and my skin's really dry and I'm always outside so I have to make sure my skin's protected from the elements. So I love philosophy products, I love fresh, some of the old school ones and I really do love Indie Lee. Her product's been great for my skin.
00:43:27
Speaker
No, for sure. And I feel like especially in the winter is like worst thing is like your lips. Everything just gets so dry. I mean, I already have a dry skin, so it's worse for me. Yeah. Jones Road. I use a Jones Road, which is Bobbi Brown's new brand. She's a thing called Hippie Stick. And it's like an emollium bomb and a really wide stick. And I've had it for like six months already. It's huge. And I put it on my lips. You can put it on your knuckles anywhere. And it's just like a really delicious smelling bomb.
00:43:55
Speaker
I can't believe I don't have it next to me on my desk. I probably have it in my bedroom. I have one actually from CEO Bigelow right now. It's a lip balm. Oh, I love the CEO Bigelow lip balm. Their products are great too.
00:44:10
Speaker
They're an incredible brand. I've been over 160 years. I just feel like it's so hard to keep the brand alive for so long or stay at least, I don't know, relevant. It's very hard, but their product really works. It's really good.
Maintaining Brand Relevancy
00:44:27
Speaker
Yeah. And their story, I love it's, you know, it's a family owned business and they've been around for so long. And Ian is the president and he's just a really nice guy. And he's been to be, and he's so well-respected in the beauty industry because he's so nice. He's really humble. He's very kind and they make great, great products. And they sell, you know, they've been right here in the West village for all these years. It's really kind of cool to see how that they're still, they're still here. And like you said, they're still relevant, really relevant.
00:44:53
Speaker
And I think I 100% agree with you because I think he also even liked my TikToks, which I was not expecting. It's amazing. I feel like it matters so much how you treat them or how people treat you. It really means a lot, especially in the business industry.
00:45:13
Speaker
you should like have some sort of respect towards people so like they can also respect you too hence that effect. Yeah and lead with kindness right you're doing it like you're so sweet and you're so kind everything you do I love because you're just nice and you know people want to be around nice people that are just putting positivity out in the world and just sharing what they love to do and I
00:45:33
Speaker
That is what I love to see on TikTok. I love to see that on Instagram. People doing what they love to do. There's one woman, and she's an influencer and a beauty expert, and she's always sharing her ice skating. And I always say, keep sharing your talent. Please keep sharing your talent, because it's beautiful.
00:45:48
Speaker
Right? It's something that she loves in school. Exactly. And speaking of that, I think that's why you're serious, always in the nature, like walk was washed. It makes me always so happy because I have always been in the urban areas and I was so used to just seeing skyscrapers, buildings, another building.
Nature's Impact on Well-being
00:46:09
Speaker
And that's why I feel like I never had the experience with nature, but ever since like I got my license, like then I was driving around and like seeing the like mountains or like driving to the west coast and everything that made me fall in love with nature so much because there's I mean, like views are so spectacular. You sometimes will just want to stare and like watch like.
00:46:30
Speaker
You're in awe, you're in awe. Yeah, exactly. It's so cool. And that's why I feel like it also brings you that, I don't know, like when you have like a really crazy day, it brings that like, I don't know, some sort of like calmness and the quietness that brings into your mind. It's like therapy. It's real science. I'm actually talking to, I have my fake fireplace on right now on my YouTube channel just because the sight of it and the crackling sounds really kind of calm your mind. It's all scientifically proven. Like what you're just saying, like you feel good and it's
00:46:59
Speaker
studying it and understanding that I've been spending so much time talking about the brain and studying the brain with some really interesting neuroscientists and doctors of like, what is nature doing to our brains? It's been fascinating to learn because it's not just like our ingredients and our beauty products. So like going from beauty and understanding what nature's doing in our ingredients and our products, but also like, how do we harvest them? Where are they coming from? And then understand like walking through Central Park, I'm like, wow,
00:47:26
Speaker
Like so many of the ingredients I'm using in my beauty products are right here, are growing in Central Park. How is that even, how is that possible? I didn't even know. I didn't even realize. Like ginkgo and witch hazel and sassafras and always like really interesting things you see in our products are right in front of our faces. Most of the time we don't even realize it.
00:47:43
Speaker
Yes, exactly. And I feel like that's why there's this hour out that the nature brings to you. It almost makes you belong somewhere else that you were never part of before. So I don't know. It just feels really different, at least from my perspective, because I'm always in the downtown area. So it feels great to get out sometimes, not just see buildings.
00:48:05
Speaker
No, it's so true. And our bodies actually crave it. So spending the past six years studying our bodies, and also going through something called nature deficit disorder, which was coined by a friend of mine who wrote this book called last child in the woods back in like 2005. But
00:48:21
Speaker
because we because I'm from the Bronx, I grew up in the Bronx, I grew up in the city and spent time out in Westchester before I moved to Florida. But most of my childhood was living in cities. But while I go to the Botanical Gardens in the Bronx, it was a kid in Central Park. But still, like our disconnection from the natural world of being outdoors is like really making us the most unwell, like we're completely isolating ourselves from things that are making us actually healthy. And
00:48:47
Speaker
It's been so interesting to really study this and learn. It's a real connection. So the more we separate ourselves, the worse off we are physically, mentally, and our bodies, our immune systems are completely shot if we're not actually in the natural world. So I'm like, oh, I get it. There are days, probably like you, you're sitting in your apartment all day. I'm like, I need to get outside. Yeah, you feel like you're suffocating.
00:49:10
Speaker
Yes, totally. And I've done it many times. I'd be like, oh my god, I've been on my computer for the past day and a half and I haven't left my apartment building. I haven't left my little tiny apartment. So it's kind of surreal when you're like, I need to just get my body moving in fresh air and feel the breeze on my face. And it's all very intuitive. We already kind of know that it feels good. It's just a matter of giving ourselves permission to go outside. So I think the pandemic was a big, amazing silver lining. Oops, sorry.
00:49:40
Speaker
on that silver lining that kind of says, Oh yeah, we need it. We really, really need it. And it's important for sure. And I feel like also like nowadays, even companies are taking a lesson for this. It's like airports and everything. They make like specific sections and areas that's like really looks like you're in the wild or the forest. Like it looks, I mean, first it looks great, but also it feels good. Like just, you feel like you're outside, but you're not really outside. It's good.
00:50:05
Speaker
Yeah, it's, um, that's actually biophilic design. So you're seeing a lot more of that in the airports because they now are showing the studies of biophilia and biophilic design is bringing nature elements indoors.
Biophilic Design and Mental Health
00:50:15
Speaker
So me having this fake fire on is seeing a fire, which is innately intuitive to me. It makes me feel good.
00:50:21
Speaker
I have wood walls in here. So things that are natural elements brought indoors is called biophilic design. And so you're going to see a lot more in hospitals, hotels, restaurants here. You see a lot of it in New York City, like just even flowers and plants make us better. They actually make us more well. And they also help with our mental health. There's just been a study, like a massive case study from the 1980s where in a hospital, they
00:50:47
Speaker
Two people that were like side by side in different rooms, one facing beautiful, like, you know, greenery outdoors, someone else is facing a brick wall, same surgeries, just different views. The person that viewed nature needed less medication and got out sooner than the person that was facing the brick wall. You needed more medication that was there actually longer. It's really fascinating. It's really, really interesting. So yeah, you're gonna see a lot more biophilic design and especially in stores as well.
00:51:14
Speaker
Yes, that's for sure. You mentioned mental health. I know your walk was washed. I'm sure that like, you know, contributes a lot and you also have a book. So you just launched that recently. So what else would you say like that kind of helps with your mental health and some things that you can recommend to people?
00:51:32
Speaker
I think it's just giving ourselves the permission to, and again, I think a lot of it is. We've been so isolated the past years, I think really getting outdoors and understanding our connection to the natural world. And I think what for me, what I've learned is, because I've been in beauty for so long, but I never really realized the impact that
00:51:52
Speaker
nature was having on me in terms of the ingredients I was using in my beauty products, the food I was eating, and the spaces and places that I felt most in tune with. So when I create a beauty bar, you're going to laugh. So experts would come down from New York and see my store and say, you know, you're doing this all wrong. You're putting a focus on the actual exterior walls, and you should be focusing on the products. Because I had wood walls, and I had big plants.
00:52:20
Speaker
I had certain music I was playing and wood, everything. Anyway, they told me it was all wrong, but now I know it was actually biophilic design. So now I can say, oh yeah, I was actually doing that for the betterment of people's health. So I think a lot of people understand the health benefits of being outdoors, you want to get outside more.
00:52:39
Speaker
for your better health, just to like go for a walk or a bike ride or spend time like go for coffee with someone. So I love the people now and they, when they want to get together, they know like, Hey, let's go grab a coffee and go for a walk. Yes. I feel like that makes a huge difference. Even if it's just like for a short amount of time, it really just helps you clear your head.
00:52:56
Speaker
Yeah, it really, really does. So I think our reconnection to nature also, when we do these things, then we're better understanding and equipped to understand what sustainability means for the clothes and regenerative and all these different practices that we kind of need to know to help save ourselves and save the planet, really.
00:53:13
Speaker
That is for sure. Yes. Thank you so much for coming on the show. This was such an insightful conversation. I so appreciate you and thank you for, I really feel honored that you asked me to do this with you because I just, I'm such a fan of what you do and your work. So I always love what you share. You're just kind of a bright light in this world and we all need, we need more of you. Thank you. Hopefully we will get to meet you.
00:53:33
Speaker
in person. I know 2022 will do. I know I hope like there's gonna be I was always hoping that like some events like they can check vaccination and everything but like I feel like it's getting more and more complicated in New York so hopefully that will happen so we can use each other.