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Art and Birds with Casey Girard
757 Plays10 days ago
In this episode of the Bird Joy Podcast, we’re joined by Casey Girard, an autistic artist, illustrator, naturalist, educator, and birder based in Asheville, North Carolina, whose work lives at the intersection of art, birds, science, and community care. Casey shares how art and birding became sources of refuge, how early experiences in illustration and education shaped their visual storytelling, and why representation through projects like their Black Birders illustrations matters so deeply.
We explore how neurodivergence influences creative practice and sensory connection to nature, the role of art in supporting mental health, and how birds can offer grounding and hope during difficult times. Casey also reflects on their recent collaboration with the Feminist Bird Club of Asheville, which raised over $11,500 for BeLoved Asheville after Hurricane Helene, an inspiring example of art as mutual aid.
This heartfelt conversation centers art as refuge, birds as teachers, and the power of creativity and community in moments of challenge and care, capped off with a fun, art-focused Bird Joy Lightning Round.
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Transcript
Introduction to Season Four
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to season four of the bird joy podcast your host Dexter Patterson and Jason Hall are back with more birds more bird joy and plenty of laughs along the way each episode brings new stories fun conversations and a whole flock of good vibes we're happy you're here we really miss the homies and we hope you enjoy this season you ready let's go All right, folks, today's guest is somebody whose work sits beautifully at the intersection of art, birds, science and care for community.
Introduction of Casey Gerard
00:00:34
Speaker
Casey Gerard is an autistic artist, illustrator, naturalist, educator and birder based in Asheville, North Carolina. You see, I said North Carolina. Casey studied illustration and graphic design at RIT and began their career in children's publishing before moving into freelance illustration, education, and community science.
00:00:59
Speaker
Over the years, their path has included working as a substitute teacher and librarian, leading bird walks and serving as a docent, at the Jasper Ridge Biological
Art, Science, and Community
00:01:11
Speaker
Preserve.
00:01:11
Speaker
Today, Casey's life and work reflect two passions for art and science grounded in motherhood, education, and time spent in protected natural spaces.
00:01:23
Speaker
Many of you will recognize Casey's work from their powerful Blackbirders illustrations in their Blackbirders Week art that featured both Jason and I. They are also the artist behind Backyard Birds, the 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle and has collaborated with organizations like Bird Collective, Field Inclusive, Pomegranate and sweatshirts against the original goal of
00:02:00
Speaker
And every dollar of that campaign goes directly to beloved Asheville.
The Role of Art and Birds
00:02:04
Speaker
This episode is about art as refuge, birds as teachers, and what it looks like to give back when your community needs you the most.
00:02:12
Speaker
Casey, welcome to the Bird Joy podcast. Thank you all for having me. You're very welcome. You're very welcome. Is it definitely recording me, T? It is. it is. You are. You are. are. You are on the podcast, homie. You are officially on the podcast. Well, thank you all for having me here.
Childhood Inspirations and Art
00:02:29
Speaker
i don't know. You all are so amazing. um,
00:02:34
Speaker
you bring so much joy and you, I don't know, make such a wonderful community of birders. Yeah, and you bring us a lot of joy. You bring us a lot of joy. You wear a lot of hats, Casey. Artist, naturalist, educator, birder. When you think back to your earliest memories, where did art first enter your life?
00:02:53
Speaker
I definitely was always drawing. I remember drawing with my grandmother. I really wanted to draw all the animals, and I wanted to draw the biggest to smallest.
00:03:03
Speaker
Didn't realize or understand the rigid thinking around that, and we never could finish because we'd get distracted by giraffe. And I wish I had been able to like draw what was exciting as opposed to having to go in order.
00:03:20
Speaker
But I think that's funny. But I remember when I was eight, I watched somebody draw something really good in my class. And I was like, that's awesome. How did they do that? And I was determined that I wanted to be able to do that too. so Love it. Love it. It's definitely always been animals, not always birds. Yeah, and I'm trying to imagine eight-year-old Casey just looking around and being like, oh, man, thiss this yeah this is going to be a journey. you know That's really cool. Was there was there a moment within that where you felt like that was ah a refuge or a safe place, the art? um
00:03:55
Speaker
but Was it purely, you know I think some some kids, thinking about my own son right now, like... um It started with just the colors. And now I realize that he goes to art when he needs to deload, you know, when he needs to have quiet time, he goes and puts his headphones on and he literally got his gifts for Christmas were reams of printer paper crayons and markers. And our family didn't believe that that's what he wanted. And like he goes and he like two hours, he'll just, that's his. Did you ever have a moment where you realize that art was like that for you? Oddly, I don't know that it was. I mean, I've always been interested in drawing. I guess it was, it helped me focus when I was in school.
00:04:35
Speaker
And I remember my English teacher was really in high school, had just pieces of paper for us. She's like, I know you're going to need to draw while you're listening to me teach, so
Evolution of Art Style
00:04:44
Speaker
please draw. Oh, wow.
00:04:46
Speaker
It kind of stabilizes my mind so that I'm able to listen better. And so it's like, I feel like I'm a weird artist in that I do love drawing. I think drawing really expresses me better than my words do. And I don't know if it's because of my autism or dyslexia precisely,
00:05:04
Speaker
But it's, it's kind of, it's more just like a better way for me to express again, because I get so rigid. Like I think about again, i had a coloring book. It was the Lion King coloring book. And I was so excited about that coloring book, but I would not allow myself to draw outside of from start to finish. And I got frustrated. I think I i didn't finish because I was like, well, you have to do it this way. and I think I've had a lot of rigid problems of like, this is how you're supposed to draw. And it's kind of slowed me down, i think, actually. Okay.
00:05:34
Speaker
Which is funny that I now paint on leaves. I'm like, so I'm not doing any of the rules. I'm just going to exactly how
The Birding Journey Begins
00:05:41
Speaker
I want to. I got i got i got two of them hanging in my office right here. can see the wax wing and a painted bunting. Two of my favorite, favorite pieces. Love it. Casey, did ah did birds show up early in your life or did they come a little later on?
00:05:53
Speaker
I'm just curious. They were later. I've definitely always enjoyed nature. Like I spent a lot of time on my great grandmother's farm by myself because that's just what we did on the weekends. I'm like, I remember bob a bobcat.
00:06:06
Speaker
being like, and snakes, like that was really like, I was really into nature, but it wasn't precisely birds. I really started seeing more birds. My mom became a birder in 2012. And so she, you know, wanted her kids to follow along. So she helped us have feeders and I had the feeders and we had gone to some national wildlife refuges at this time. We lived in California and going to the like Sacramento area, national wildlife refuges is pretty spectacular because it's tens of thousands of geese. So I had seen that, but it still had not sparked my birding.
00:06:40
Speaker
But then the January, right before she was coming 100 pine siskins, came into my yard and we lived in a very tiny postage stamp of a yard, but like there were a hundred pine siskins on all of our trees.
00:06:54
Speaker
And it just was, my brain just could not process how there could be that many birds on my tiny little yard everywhere. And that's when it happened. It was, um it really, I was like, wow, it really is a spark because my mom came after that.
00:07:09
Speaker
Yeah. And she was like, I was like, just explain the sparrows. And like we drove in, we had gotten like 50 yards into the wildlife refuge, which is like miles of auto tour. And i was like, let's just look at these sparrows. Explain white crown, golden crown, and Lincolns. And then we found a fox sparrow. I mean, we just spent like an hour looking at just the sparrows.
00:07:26
Speaker
It happens like that sometimes, doesn't it? Like, it's just like you find out you find a spot and the vibe is right and the birds are there. And it's like, you i hate... rushing off of a spot when you, you know, as long as you have the time, it's like, yeah, there's still another seven miles of drivable trail, but the Foxborough is right here. Yeah, exactly. There's so many sparrows right here. know. And it's foggy anyway.
00:07:51
Speaker
yeah you know, like you start to... Really just need it. Yeah, and I usually find that taking that time to just sit with that stuff usually makes the rest of the outing good too because you kind of just... You get to a place of like, well, I've already won.
Shift to Birding from Children's Illustration
00:08:02
Speaker
I've already got four species of Sparrow. So whatever else I see on this auto tube lure is incredible. That's that's a great, thats secret I didn't realize it was the connection out west there, right? Which also is a little bit for me too. Let's switch gears a little bit. So you studied illustration and graphic design at RIT and looks like you got started in some some children's publishing. And that early professional work
00:08:24
Speaker
did did that really kind of guide you in teaching you about storytelling through images or was there another way that you came to that? Yeah, I mean, i guess like, I've always been, I've been studying, i feel like children's illustration for a very long time. I even still have a children's illustrating critique group. And then I took classes up through 2023, just trying to help my brain think about how to tell stories. I still don't feel like I've really landed on the story I need to tell.
00:08:52
Speaker
um But it still helped me with my right, like the story. small amount of writing I do on my Instagram posts with my bird illustrations, but I feel like the birds were much more helpful in me explaining or sharing what I'm trying to share. I think children's books are awesome and I'm really grateful I got to work in that industry. I mostly marketed other people's books, which is totally fine, but that's um I feel like I mostly helped other folks launch versus myself. Yeah. Sometimes it's how you learn, right? Like you watch, you watch others do things. And, um, I'm one of those people that I love. I love that kind of part of the process sometimes, as long as you accept it and you find value in it of like, I'm going to help this other person do this thing and I'm going to do my part well and learn some things. So, um, did that shape any way that you communicate some complex ideas? Like, did you, you know, coming into what you're doing now, like, is there anything you brought from that experience into what you do now?
00:09:51
Speaker
I mean, yes, probably. i don't know that I have it like formulated as to what exactly it was. i think it's just, that's how I was maintaining the work of drawing through that time. Right. Like okay yeah that's kind of how I was working. for that time. But that's kind of, I think why children's books hasn't worked for me. I still haven't figured out how to make a story.
00:10:14
Speaker
Like my I've, and that's kind of been another part of the journey. Like I went, I was sure in 2017, I was getting back into children's books. I'm like, okay, my kids are older. I can start trying to work on this again. And I went to this really beautiful children's retreat in in Minnesota. I was like up above Duluth. It was amazing. So I'm there at the end of August and I did nothing but bird the whole time I was there. And as I was there, I was like, I think I'm not supposed to be working on children's books right now. I'm supposed to be birding. Right
00:10:51
Speaker
Touche. Yeah. I love it. The first was all warblers. And then there were loons and bald eagles. And I like took pictures of everything. And the people at the retreat were like, oh, this is the picture we've been trying to get of the birds. And I'm like, well, you finally had a birder show up. Casey, your path later, it took you into classrooms and libraries and and eventually bird walks. How did teaching and guiding others change the way you see your own art? I really like sharing experiences with people.
00:11:24
Speaker
And like, even when I'm out birding and if I see something rare, I'm almost immediately on the phone be like, oh my gosh, there's a rare bird here. Like I've failed to sometimes take a picture or anything. because I just want to make sure people know there's a bird. And so thank you it seemed really clear. It's like, this is something to share and like yeah bring other people in too. It's so exciting to see how other people are excited with you.
00:11:49
Speaker
Like I've definitely had people be like, you've helped me see the birds. And that's so cool to be like, yes, they're out here all
Illustrations and Community Impact
00:11:57
Speaker
the time. And you just have to start paying attention. i love that. i love that. And I, and I, you know, I think about, I think about your artwork often.
00:12:06
Speaker
More now because i i see you know I see things on social media and i and i I find that your social media presence causes me to think differently before I go out birding, if that makes any sense. Because I'll see you flip a leaf over of a bird that I might see that day. And then when I see that bird, I'm actually kind of like, oh man, yeah, like seeing that...
00:12:24
Speaker
Just that, you know, 10 or 20 seconds, you know, makes me, kind of puts me into a space. And it's it's interesting you say that, right? Because you're kind of doing that through your social media. It's like getting other people excited about birds, even though it may not be a live bird. It may be a representation of art. And we'll we'll get into that a little bit later.
00:12:40
Speaker
Speaking of your art, you've created some really powerful illustrations of Black birders and Latino conservationists, including Dexter and I. And I got to say, thank you. Because yeah we look good. And folks have been following, like we used Casey's artwork for our show art for this podcast. so you can see that at our at our podcast page. But what...
00:13:01
Speaker
How did you end up doing that? Did you just start drawing folks and sliding in the DMs? Like, how did that work? Because you've illustrated some incredible people in an incredible way. And like, just just talk us through some of that some of that beginning journey. Definitely was sliding into people's DMs.
00:13:17
Speaker
I'm like, just asking like, hey, do you trust me to do this? Which people did. And I'm honored that so many people trusted me to like hold space with them and represent them.
00:13:30
Speaker
Because it's really scary to draw people's faces, even though it's actually how I started illustrating. Like I was sure i was going to be a caricature artist. Like that's what I wanted to do. So I've actually always drawn faces.
00:13:43
Speaker
Yeah. Like I've done a lot of caricaturing. Like that was what I would do as my side job in college. Mm-hmm. But it never was like the really cartoony. It was always almost like a exaggerated portrait, which I think is interesting.
00:13:57
Speaker
ah So I've always really liked faces. And I also really like neuroscience. And I've read a lot of Oliver Sacks. And I'm kind of obsessed with prosopagnosia, which is face blindness where you can't see faces.
00:14:09
Speaker
And what I think interesting about it is if you get prosopagnosia, you can also lose your ability to identify birds. And so i I wonder if there's something in my brain that like, really likes that understanding of a face and then birds. And it's like, so I transitioned from faces to birds. So I think for me to draw people and then their bird together was a really nice way to like share people and get people to like, maybe make their own connection of like, this is a person that's here
00:14:44
Speaker
And loves the same thing as you. And they're a fantastic, awesome person. And like, just slow down and be present with them and birds and realize we're all here together and have similar joys and similar desires to bring forward into the world. When you reached out to me and we were talking a little bit when you first started doing those, you had mentioned that doing those illustrations of all the Black Birders and different things kind of lit a spark back in you again and got you back into your art. How did that make you feel to just like get back in the groove again on something so powerful like that? Yeah. I mean, every single one of those, I i mean, it would take me hours to draw each illustration. And I, cause I, again, I was like really wanted to make sure i captured your L's faces correctly and that it looked like you.
00:15:33
Speaker
And I mean, I've been drawing for a long time, but it had never really captured people per se. I don't know. i kind of had just reached a point where I was like, fine, that's how it will be. but at that time I really just wanted to figure out how to participate as a better community member.
00:15:51
Speaker
And I don't know, it just felt like a moment of a, of like, wait, this is something I can do. Like I'm in a space where I can put the time in to this moment and this is how I can give back and be present for this. Cause like, I don't know. I just, when I started drawing the portraits, it was like, I just wanted to help however I could. And it felt like a way that I could give back. Beautiful. Oh, it's incredible. And I got to say, like a lot of like, we all saw them circulating from different folks, right? And we didn't know, like nobody, like I didn't know who you were at first. I just started to see like, I think I saw Karina's, I saw some other folks and I was like, oh man, like who's doing this? This is great. Yeah. As I started to learn about you, I was just like, oh, this is awesome. And and it's ah you know it was a point of pride. And i you know I would have to say, i think a lot of folks felt pride to know that you spent time doing that. They felt pride and they felt...
00:16:45
Speaker
heard, I think in some ways, right. Of like this person is spending hours drawing my face and my bird. And I think we all knew based on the way you were doing it, that that was your contribution to what we were trying to do. You know, and and even, you know, I, the, the first black birders week, I was, I was, uh,
00:17:04
Speaker
participant, I wasn't the organizer or anything. So just seeing that was like, oh, wow, like we are out here. And and part of that was seeing your portraits kind of across the Blackbirdiverse, right? We can, we can, we can call it right. And so like, were you did you get feedback from folks as you were starting to circulate those images at first, like where people seeking you out? Like, how did that feel as people started to get back to you on what you were doing? Jeffrey Ward is really who I talked to first.
00:17:33
Speaker
um I was talking to him the most and he put me in touch with Deja and Alex and he helped me connect to them. And i mean, so it was really him who ah showed that I was being serious and help validate that I wasn't just like somebody trying to gain my own notoriety in that moment. Cause I wasn't sure. It was like, i had, I'd come to this.
00:18:01
Speaker
I'd had somebody ask me before this happened. Cause I was struggling. Right. It's like, as an artist, you're, you're, there is a part goal to be like, I want to be out there. I want people to see my art and I want to be able to succeed with my art. And I had a person ask me,
00:18:15
Speaker
would you really stop making art if it never made it anywhere? And I was like, no, I'm always going to do this. And it yeah it really doesn't matter the outcome on that
Artistic Responsibility and Safety
00:18:28
Speaker
end. I just want to make art to communicate into community. So that definitely helped me know this is the right decision. i'm just, I'm going to do this. And this is what I want to do.
00:18:38
Speaker
I'm so happy to have, I was so like that. I think that was, I mean, as ah as a white person in that moment, I was like, how do we actually help? Because I think as as much as we can talk to each other as white person to white person to discuss all of the complexities of the U.S. and its issues, having good, actionable, positive items to provide is complicated. And i was like, this is a way that I can do something that is positive and beneficial.
00:19:09
Speaker
It was. i think another thing that I loved as Jason talked about all these images like circulating through the Blackbirder verse, it was putting me on to people I didn't know. Yeah. So I was like seeing images of people and I'm like, oh, who's that? Who's that?
00:19:25
Speaker
Who's that? And that literally I was following them on Instagram and like I was I was like connecting with new people. Nicole was one of them. And I was just like me and I was seeing I was like, I don't know who this homie is. I don't know this homie. But it really had me fired up. And um I remember going to all these new people's profiles and seeing their work. And that was amazing.
00:19:46
Speaker
That was thanks to you. And really, I felt like you did a really good job honoring these folks spirit with your art. How do you approach that? Because that is difficult. You talked about being a white person and, you know, you're you're creating something for black birders or Latino conservationists. Like, how do you approach honoring somebody's spirit through your art? um I try to really listen and listen.
00:20:11
Speaker
make sure it has really nothing to do with me outside of it's something I'm able to do. There's just, I just try to make sure it's everything about the person I'm drawing.
00:20:21
Speaker
And it's like, this is going to be a perfectly safe space for them. I'm going to do everything I can to make sure they feel safe. And that I make a safe space, not just for them in that moment, but all the time so that they can feel like it's accept it's okay that I represented them or put them in a space where I exist too, because it is...
00:20:47
Speaker
It is entrusting who you are with someone else. And, you know, i i don't really understand people that can't see other people and realize that everybody deserves to be here and everybody's amazing and has a potential. Like, I i kind of don't get it, but I don't understand it as a human. I'm like, a human is a human. We're here and each person should have access to all things.
00:21:10
Speaker
that's possible. And I just want to make sure that that's happening. I get that it doesn't, and society and systems don't always make, are not making that possible. So I just want to make sure that I'm carrying that and I see that that is our goal and our work to get to that.
00:21:28
Speaker
And so it's like keeping all of that in mind and again, ensuring that I'm continuing to hold that correctly and safely for people as they trust me. Cause it's, I can sense how big,
00:21:42
Speaker
of a leap of faith it is. And I'm, as I said, I'm honored that people have trusted me to carry that. And I see it as sacred and extremely valuable and important. And sometimes you're like, okay.
00:21:56
Speaker
Yeah, no, no. And I think, I think the consistency, like just Dexter and i having known you for years now that, that it's been consistent, right? I think when you said creating a safe space where not only,
00:22:09
Speaker
they can see themselves, but they also see you in that space. And they know that that space will be consistently a safe space for, for the both of you. Like, I think like that, that's, that's, that was some bars there, Casey. Like that was, that was, that was good. Like, because, yeah you know, I've not come across anything since where I'm like, Oh, was Casey not the person that I thought they were in terms of how they express art for us?
00:22:35
Speaker
And I think that matters, right? that That really matters is just the consistency of the relationship and the reaffirming both ways of like, hey, we are here for each other. And and I think that's that's a really beautiful part of it.
Feedback and Representation
00:22:49
Speaker
Did you get any, just the last question on the on the portrait, did you get any interesting reactions from folks the first time they saw themselves depicted in your art?
00:22:58
Speaker
um Well, I did have somebody when I drew the mammologists, because that was a group image, not everybody agreed to do it. So I was drawing it for a couple of people and I had somebody that was not happy with their illustration. Oh boy. So badly.
00:23:15
Speaker
and like, I think that they were nervous who I was because they didn't know it was still really early. And i apologized and I said, I'm really sorry. We should not have done that. I should have asked you before going forward. They ended up okay. And they were fine with it being out there. Otherwise I would have insisted it come down with how they had initially felt, but like,
00:23:36
Speaker
it also informed me of like, yeah, you really have to, it has to be individual people. It has to be an agreed upon thing where both people are happy with the ah end result. and It can't be something that's like that again. yeah I'm glad that they were okay with it in the end and that, I don't know, I was able to express to them. i'm like, no, no, this is, this is your all's. And if you need it to come down, that's, that is fine.
00:24:00
Speaker
Like I don't, this does not have to exist for me. This is, this is for
Autism, Sensory Experiences, and Art
00:24:04
Speaker
you. Yeah. It's great to hear. Yeah. Great learning opportunity and, and shout out to you for being conscious enough to, you know, be like, Hey, this ain't about me. You know, i think that probably made the folks feel, feel better as well. Knowing like, Hey, whoops this artist is like, they'll take it down. You know, if you, if you want and really want to make sure that they were okay with it. So.
00:24:26
Speaker
That's beautiful. All right. We're going to shift gears a little bit here. i really, on you know, on this show, we've talked about a lot of different things, mental health being one and how birds or photography or art or different things create like these safe spaces for people to to just kind of be who they are. And you've shared that you're an autistic artist. And I would love for you to speak about how does that shape the way you experience the world, especially in natural spaces?
00:24:55
Speaker
Um, it's interesting. I think it's changed over time. I don't know how much you want to bring up perimenopause, but man, that is a rough time and it's a lot of changes. And I feel like it's spiked my autism sensory issues pretty badly.
00:25:14
Speaker
And it's taken me a minute to grasp what's happening because like listening to bird sounds, they say it really calms you down because there's this connect of like birds are singing.
00:25:25
Speaker
The world is safe right now because birds are out there being safe. Of course, I can hear when a Cooper's Hawk comes in and they're scared. It is, it's like, oh, I go on alert too because I know there's a raptor around.
00:25:39
Speaker
But um so I've really relish in that time in the morning when it's quiet and I can sit with the birds. And I try to really be conscientious about making sure I'm attentive and present in calming myself down when it is still quiet and I can just hear the birds. As much as I live pretty far in the woods, it's not the woods. There are still people all around me and they still have to do the human noises. And the human noises sometimes really stress me out, especially with how concerned I am about how nature is doing.
00:26:15
Speaker
And I try really hard to just like really, really pay attention to the time where nobody's doing stuff yet. Cause there is a while, there's a while where it's still very much just the birds for the most part. And like very minor amounts of sounds, lawnmowers, chainsaws, or any of those things. The woods is not a quiet place actually. There's lot of maintenance in the woods. Yeah, I would imagine. lot of outdoor projects going on in people's yards inside the woods. Yeah. You talk about the sensory experiences. I'm just curious, how does drawing intersect with your sensory experience?
00:26:49
Speaker
It's funny. am in a basement. Basically, this is actually a closet, and this is where I draw and paint the most. I find I actually kind of have to tune out. Like, if I'm sitting in front of a window, I'm going to look out the window.
00:27:03
Speaker
I have to be really limited in how much I'm in a window space when I'm drawing. distracted by birds. If you see me, I'm always like, you know. Uh-huh. Is that the jungle homie? Is that the American goldfinch at the feeder right here? you know? Oh, yeah. I got a feeder like three feet away from me. Like, this is me and all. I see like a a shadow fly by and I'm like, who is it? Yeah. I used to have a window and that's exactly what I would do. And honestly, the bulk of my work would be at nighttime once everything was asleep.
00:27:36
Speaker
Cause then I can focus. I wonder if people think I'm paying attention. Cause when I'm in conversation, I'm like, I do not ignore the birds. I am still looking at all the birds. Like I'm still looking around and i'm like, I promise I actually can hear you better. Cause I'm looking at the birds too. My brain can hear
Challenges and Focus in Art
00:27:51
Speaker
you better. Yeah. That's one thing I like about being around birders is you usually don't have to explain that to them. It's like, they know that you're having a conversation and you're listening at the same time, which is, which is, you know, it's a underappreciated aspect of having birding community. Cause if I did that at work,
00:28:07
Speaker
in the middle of meeting with my VP and he saw me like looking up at the, at the tree, he'd be like, Oh my God, what is Jason doing? Let me ask. Um, you mentioned, you know, some of the, this, the human noises, right. That, that sometimes are a little overwhelming, but life in general can be overwhelming. Right. and And so what do you, do you go to art to pull yourself back when life gets overwhelming? Does the art itself cause sometimes you to be overwhelmed? Like,
00:28:37
Speaker
what is that What is that role that the art plays? Especially because we were talking before the for the podcast, right? Sometimes you get commissioned to do stuff and that's work, right? It's planned work. So how does that work when your art is your work and your art is also probably a tool to help? Yeah, I was thinking about that.
00:28:55
Speaker
um I don't know that art is therapy or like calming for me. It's work. Like, I think about every time I draw, it is hard.
00:29:06
Speaker
I don't know that it's ever easy. Painting on leaves sometimes can feel slightly easy, but it's it's actually always hard, which i think make it look super easy, by the way. You make it look incredible. You make it look like butter. like Every time I look at one, I'm like, because I got no artistic ability. So just so you know, it looks great. could a main stick figure. but i could I could do, a you know, the little bird with the two swoops. look yeah I could do that. Yeah. That's the part, I guess, about art. Because people ask me this, like, oh my gosh, is this just easy in love? And I'm like, it's so odd to me being an artist. I'm like, it's it's still work, actually. It's still hard. I don't know. Maybe some artists, it just flows out of them. But it's always really complicated for me. And I don't know if it's something about the way my, because they say an autistic brain is like, all the connections your brain makes, they never call. They're just all there. I'm like, I don't know if it's just like my brain has to touch everything before it puts an image down.
00:30:11
Speaker
i have a friend whose child was having a hard time. Like, you know, when a kid makes a poster. And they have to draw words across the top. Like, and you know, some kids there start to draw it and then it gets squished and crushed in the side. Because it's like and understanding that spatial thing is not for everybody. I like still struggle with that myself. And I've been drawing for a really long time at this point.
00:30:35
Speaker
But like my brain still bizarrely has a hard time balancing all that kind of stuff. And I mean, it's interesting all the tools we have now to help us. do that work more quickly. But we've always had tools to help us, even if that's like not something that's, I don't know. I don't, they were saying you shouldn't say animal behaviors are natural. And I'm like, I don't know that art is necessarily natural. I think it's something we do to express ourselves. The fact that there have been cave paintings, like representing what we're seeing has always been important for humans.
00:31:09
Speaker
And I think that's the thing. It's like, for some reason for me, making sure I'm representing what's in my head through an image is just vitally important. And like I realized I'm not actually the best communicator with words.
Community Support Through Art
00:31:25
Speaker
I'm finally trying to pay more attention to how I'm communicating with loved ones. And I'm like, I don't think that anything I really thought was clarified. And I'm realizing...
00:31:34
Speaker
So I feel like my art expresses my thoughts much better than I can with words. As I'm sitting here telling you all my thoughts with words. No, it's great. You've been doing great. and I think your perspective and that's what we I love about this show is is this is what we want. Like we want to hear this perspective. This is really important.
00:31:55
Speaker
In my opinion, I've met a few neurodivergent folks out birding and like they say they love being outside. They love just being in nature with folks. and And I think it's that calming. And then like, we're not treating you differently. We're just observing the birds together. um And I think just hearing your perspective on this, I think is going to be very helpful.
00:32:18
Speaker
for a lot of people out there. And the way that you're expressing yourself today has been beautiful, in my opinion. So I just I want to say thank you for for just being you on on today's show, because this is this literally is like warming my heart every time, like every segment is just like, thank you. Thank you. Thank Thank you. Thank you. Because there are a lot of people out there that need to hear this. So thank you.
00:32:42
Speaker
So one thing I've learned after following you over the last few years, Casey, is giving back is means a lot to you. You know, you've supported our club. You've supported.
00:32:54
Speaker
various black birders and conservationists across with your work, your time, right? Like time is like the most valuable resource that we have. And you literally said sometimes it take you a long time to do these things and it's hard. um So that, that really means a lot.
Symbolism of the Great Blue Heron
00:33:10
Speaker
The the fact that you give back and you you put your money where your mouth is, you do the work and and it kind of shows up. Let's talk a little bit about some of the work you were doing in in your hometown after the hurricane, you had noticed that a great blue heron returned to the river.
00:33:27
Speaker
And in that moment, it kind of stuck with you. Can you walk us through what that felt like? I'm like, don't want to cry. So we do live on the Swannanoa, which is one of the main rivers.
00:33:42
Speaker
It um is the river that comes down from the North Fork Dam. which is the dam that did not fail, but it overtopped. and And that's where like all of, a lot of Asheville's water comes from.
00:33:54
Speaker
ah The Swan Anoa wasn't filled in the same, like it wasn't full for days, like the French Broad ended up being, because that's the final place where all the water goes, but it was still really high for quite a few hours.
00:34:08
Speaker
And we could watch it. and it was way too much to watch. I was awake before everybody else was, and I i watched one of our big trees fall, and i that was really hard to watch, and I made everybody wake up. And then the storm part kind of stopped. We went and checked on our neighbors. They were okay. But then the river started rising because all the water started collecting.
00:34:34
Speaker
And that's when, I mean, the water was already roaring, but that's when things started hitting the trees and you the trees just just went away. Like just huge things were under the water, taking out all of the trees. I had to leave. I had to stop looking at it because it was too much to look at, to watch all of the river be stripped bare. Like it was just, that's all the habitat. What will happen without all of the habitat? We are ridiculously lucky that our house is high enough up on a hill. The water did not touch our house.
00:35:07
Speaker
We had, when we got the house, we had replaced this huge zone of land that had been like made into this fancy garden, fancy looking ornamental things. And we removed all of that and we put in all native trees and like birch trees and rhododendrons and hollies and service berries. And also we put in all these nine barks and there's this plant called river cane, which is a native bamboo looking plant.
00:35:38
Speaker
We've let all of that grow. and spread its roots. And our riverbank bank looks almost, it looks fine. Like it made it through all of that flooding because we've left all of these native plants and we've been encouraging them to grow to the best of our ability. And also we just happened to be, have done luck of being on the eddy side of the river. So the river wasn't moving as fast.
00:36:01
Speaker
on our side the river. But like watching all of that destruction and just being so fearful of how much was lost, to see the birds be back the next day, like it was the next day that we started being able to open our eyes to look around and like to see that the gray blue heron was still there and was still in the midst of all this loss,
00:36:22
Speaker
still hunting, still being able to use the river to find food. It just was like, if if it can do it, we can too. Yeah, hope. Ooh, you got, I was like, this story, boy. Ooh. We talked about this before on this show about when we're going through something in life, how we can look at a bird that has migrated from South America, avoiding predators and storms and and and made it here.
00:36:57
Speaker
and And it's singing. Like we've talked about this, right? About how we can find that hope in birds. And and that was such a beautiful, the perfect example of that ah amongst all this destruction, amongst all this worry and everything that the birds can bring us back to this, just this centering moment of hope. And that was just, this that was beautiful. Persistence, right? Because you got to think to yourself, what was that great blue heron doing?
00:37:23
Speaker
during the storm. yeah Where was it hunkered down? Where was it finding safety? Where was it finding, not to anthropomorphize, but hope, right? Or like some expectation of survival. And all of that, week i could I could hear it in your voice because it sounds like when you saw the heron,
00:37:39
Speaker
You were thinking about that heron relative to watching massive trees get ripped out of the ground, watching water just destroy things in people's homes. And and then that thing is there just, and and i I got to say this because it gives me goosebumps, but the fact that you were there at that moment too, to look upon the bird.
00:37:56
Speaker
You two shared that moment, like the fact that you decided to walk to your window at that moment or walk outside or whatever you were doing and look in that direction. That is really beautiful to me. And it sounds and it's I understand that that that part of the the work that you do right with a bunch of different organizations.
00:38:13
Speaker
that that hair and piece influenced the design of the um the the sweatshirt so like how did you take all that and like what did you want to indicate on the shirt uh you know in terms of resilience and and and all that from that moment i was realizing as you were asked I'm like, do i how did i look at that bird? Because I can't remember.
00:38:34
Speaker
That's another weird part of this is um my memories are completely messed up now. like i My brain doesn't actually remember a lot of stuff that it did, not even just about the storm, just in general.
00:38:45
Speaker
I can't remember if I was outside or in my house looking at that bird because the herons actually don't like us to get too close to them. They're pretty, nope, you're too close and they'll leave. But I remember that he stayed, it really stayed for a while. It didn't seem to be bothered by anything. So I think that probably is part of it, but also every, like I've painted a lot of birds and I, I vend locally most of the time and people are always drawn to the herons too. I mean, it's a bird people can actually see whether you're a birder or not. People really know the herons are there and that they are all along our rivers.
00:39:21
Speaker
So I think it just became a symbol of strength. And it is a big bird. Like that is a really humongous bird. And it's beautiful. I love Dino vibes, you know? Yeah.
00:39:35
Speaker
I will say when I drew that, I wasn't actually in the mountains. We did evacuate because water, electricity, wasn't clear how long that was going to be. and I have two kids and 16 year old is really hard to feed on a limited situation.
00:39:52
Speaker
So we went and stayed with my brother during that time and they were so gracious to to keep us and just give me time. But because I was away, I did not know what to do with myself because I was like, I need to be helping and I am so far away. So it was amazing that Feminist Bird Club reached out to me and Kirsten and Rachel and Carly, who are my other co-leaders in the Western North Carolina group chapter of Feminist Bird Club, to see what they could do to help us. And we were discussing what artist to actually draw that, because it was not me first. it I was like, who could do that? And then
00:40:29
Speaker
I don't really know why it didn't work with another person. And i was like, I can do it. I have time. I'm actually sitting here needing something to do. I'll draw this. So um i I drew that while we were finishing up being at my brother's house, which was good because You know, he had power and Internet and access, although it did go through where he's in Savannah and the tornadoes went through where he lives. It was very strange to drive to his house because like there's just this like not power almost all the way down. Well, it seems like you were you were meant to be the artist to to take that on because it was insane. You know, it really exceeded expectations. You all raised over $11,500. More than sweatshirts were sold What was your reaction when you saw those numbers?
00:41:17
Speaker
um I was very excited. I was like, oh, that's wonderful. I'm so glad that that resonated with so many people. I still, my brain still doesn't process very well. Like, oh, people like this. Cause like I i graduated in 04 and it's, so it's been a long time of drawing and making artwork. So for it to have that ah reaction was very exciting. and I mean,
00:41:43
Speaker
anything to support beloved Asheville, they do so much for those most in need in our community. Like it is just unbelievable how much they accomplish and give back and how they represent hold people that have the most need here. I don't know. I just, they're a fantastic organization locally. And I, you know I got to say for folks like that, as far as I can tell, the sweater is still for sale, right? You can still go get it. We'll make sure to put it in the show notes and everything. And it's an incredible design. Just, I want folks to imagine, cause this is a podcast, but you have this beautiful great blue heron flying with
00:42:24
Speaker
Mountains in the background, the sun coming up. There's some foliage around the edge of the frame. The bird is obviously coming down a river way. You know, it really speaks to kind of a lot of what you talked about, this strength, this resilience, right? And the sun's still rising.
00:42:40
Speaker
You know, I assume the shirt is pointed east. But that that part is really, really beautiful. So I encourage folks when you get the link to maybe go continue to support.
Advice for Artists and Activism
00:42:50
Speaker
For the artists listening, you've obviously had two really good examples here about contributing to communities in moments of crisis or moments of protest or whatever um folks are are trying to drive through. do you have any advice for other artists out there, how they can contribute in moments like that without burning themselves out?
00:43:11
Speaker
I would say always give yourself a lot of grace, like really pay attention to how you're feeling, even with the portraits, like Each year I would try and draw a few more people and I really paced myself on that. And I would give myself like a whole day for each person. Cause it's not just drawing a person it's holding the person for all of that. So just, know, I've really appreciated the idea of like, how are you feeling and on a one to 10 scale?
00:43:42
Speaker
it really helps me. so I don't know that I really understand how I'm feeling and having that scale. It's like that way I can hone in on how am I feeling? Okay. I'm at a four. That means I need to do something. Cause it just doesn't take that long to go from seven to 10.
00:43:57
Speaker
Um, so I like just really be like, give, like give yourself a lot of time and space around it. Like you can put some time into work, but then do something. i mean, if art helps calm you down, then that's great. But if it doesn't,
00:44:10
Speaker
Make sure you have some space to also do something else to help your mind settle down. Cause like when you're doing work that is to support protests or, or devastation, like it is harder. Like it is a lot of more mental parts.
00:44:25
Speaker
um I know, i just wanna give a shout out to the local artists that have recently been trying to protect our urban forest with ah Save the Woods. A group of artists just did um a bat land where they all painted bats and then hung up around the forest and they've made a map to show where the bats are around the forest, just to talk about how important it is to maintain, forest in an area that's urban so people can walk to it as opposed to having to drive somewhere because not everybody has access to cars to get out. Because like, sure, there's a lot of hikes in Asheville, but they're mostly car accessible. Whereas this is one that's walkable for people in Asheville.
00:45:04
Speaker
Yeah, I love that those artists have been doing that. And Save the Woods is this like big group effort here in Asheville. Shout out to Save the Woods. Yeah, for sure. i Appreciate everybody doing the work. And you're definitely working. yourre bound Your life balance is art, family, science, education.
Balancing Art with Life
00:45:22
Speaker
What does balance look like for Casey right now?
00:45:26
Speaker
I feel like I've gotten better at it. It took, I like some people I've tried to show how they're like asking me this question. of Like, how do you do it? And I'm like, like six spreadsheets. You got it.
00:45:38
Speaker
you're speaking jason you got it You got it. It really helps. Let me plug in some pivot tables here. Yeah. I just, I don't know. Like just being able to see that.
00:45:51
Speaker
Cause like, I think I get, I get really nervous. Like, Oh my gosh, I need to put in enough hours. So if I can see it, then I don't worry. And it's like, not worrying takes away one other thing I have to do. Cause it's like, well, I know, I know what got done and then I can space out what I need to do. And then that that other energy doesn't have to be there. I can just put the energy into getting the work done. And again, it really helps that my kids have finally gotten older.
00:46:17
Speaker
That does help when they can feed themselves. It helps a Great advice. Yeah, great advice. Are there any projects or ideas you're excited to explore next? You know, art, birding, education, something we haven't talked about at all? I don't know.
00:46:34
Speaker
Oh man, I want to draw my goal poster so much. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Let's go. Listen. But I had to finish something else over the summer that took like all of the summer. as soon as you got that goal poster ready to release, you let your boy know because we can slide that thing all over the yeah over the Internet. the wall in here, too, that I need to fill up. Yeah, please. You're in goal ambassadors, right? Yes. I am here. I am at your, at your service. If you need me.
00:47:08
Speaker
Awesome. Goal poster coming soon. Yeah. But as I said, I've got it sketched out. I'm hoping maybe I can draw out it this month. I'm not a hundred percent sure. Usually in February, the first week of February, I go to the Western sections, wildlife society, annual meeting.
00:47:23
Speaker
And I'm a vendor there, which is so much fun because I get to nerd out with everybody's research. Talk to everybody about what they're researching. Griff with Save the Redwoods last year. oh nice. He is a really awesome person talking about how they're protecting redwood forests out in California. So i don't know. it's It's like so much fun. But it also means I don't get to stop at the end of Christmas. Like with all that type, I have to, I immediately cycle into, okay, but talking about balance, I'm I'm like, I really need to not need to draw everything the week of Christmas to New Year's because yeah like this year I got sick with the worst laryngitis I've ever
Art Preferences and Persistence
00:48:00
Speaker
had. And I'm like, how can I draw when I feel terrible?
00:48:05
Speaker
All good. All right, Casey, this is our favorite part. It's going to be the lightning round. So off the cuff, off the top of the head, quick answers, and we will get through it. So I'm going to start sketchbook or loose paper. um I feel terrible. Remember that problem. like I do love my iPad. Hey, let's go. If I'm going to use paper, I do kind of like the loose paper because ok a sketchbook, I want it to be perfect perfect. And my perfectionism keeps me from actually drawing.
00:48:36
Speaker
So loose paper would be better because I can just throw it away. I especially love the newsprint, like the paper that's come wrap wrapped around something. I will iron that out then draw on that. That helps me because it was garbage. So I'm drawing on that. It doesn't have any value.
00:48:52
Speaker
right. Morning creativity or late night creativity? Both for different things like the focused. OK, I know what I'm doing. And then late night. i don't know. Both times are when people are quiet so I can draw stuff. I totally hear that. all All right.
00:49:08
Speaker
Music, silence or nature sounds? I do like nature sounds. Realistically, I'm a podcast and book person. All right. Same. Art made fast or art made slowly?
00:49:21
Speaker
I don't know. The time it takes. Sometimes it goes fast and sometimes it's really, really slow with lots of redos. Your favorite thing to draw when nobody is watching?
00:49:32
Speaker
Birds. They're just, I don't know. really get them at this point. And that's, it's really fun to draw birds. I'm curious on this one. What is the hardest thing for you to illustrate?
00:49:44
Speaker
is actually really hard to draw I've having a hard time with mammals, but like can draw them. Insects are pretty hard. Like I love them, but they're they're pretty, i don't know why. I'm having a hard time on those.
00:49:58
Speaker
Finish this sentence. Art feels most powerful to you when it... Is shared. Shared. I love it. right. One word that describes your creative process.
00:50:09
Speaker
Quirky? All right, good. All right, you did it. you You completed the lightning round. Well done. and You survived.
00:50:19
Speaker
Casey, before we wrap up, if somebody's listening to this episode, they may be going through a hard season like you were before you started doing all the Black Birders illustrations. What do you hope they take away? Just keep going. Like, don't don't give up and don't assume you know how it'll work out. If you go forward with your heart and are doing the best you can and and going with your values and what you care about, what's meant to happen will happen.
00:50:48
Speaker
and And that's really like trust in that. And like, you don't always know what it'll be that is the right thing. Better to just kind of roll with it.
00:51:01
Speaker
Dropping bars. love that. Dropping bars. Well, Casey, this has been fantastic.
Conclusion and Gratitude
00:51:09
Speaker
We don't want to keep you longer than we need to. We know you got a lot going on, but thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your perspective on birds and your art with our listeners today. Thank you for having me. I, I'm like, I, you guys are so amazing. like, how am I sitting here with two rock stars? You better stop it. Bringing it all the time. I'm sitting here looking at your artwork on my wall and I'm like, who is she talking about? Cause I'm looking at this, like this painted bunting on a oak leaf that looks like it was made by God on Mount Olympus. Like this thing looks amazing. So thank you again, Casey, you are fantastic. And, um, Dexter and I, and I lot of other folks in our community, very much appreciate your support and the work that you put into kind of standing with us, especially for those of us that do celebrate Blackbirders Week. So thank you and I hope you're well. And I want to thank you.
00:52:02
Speaker
everybody for listening today don't forget to share subscribe share this episode with the artists in your family or anybody i especially love that we got to hear casey's perspective as an autistic artist today on a bird joy podcast because birding is for everyone and as we say jason bird joy is for everyone let's go see y'all later peace thank you all