Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Sound, Story, and the Wild: A Conversation with Vikas Wildlife
780 Plays19 days ago
Today we’re joined by Vikas Bhatia (Vikas Wildlife) — wildlife filmmaker, photographer, and composer whose work blends sound and image into immersive stories from the Amazon to the Arctic.
We talk about what it means to make the environment a main character, how his background playing in bands shaped his editing rhythm, and the creative leap of composing original music for his wildlife films. Vikas shares field stories from extreme habitats, the patience required to capture animal behavior, and how he balances brand collaborations with his artistic voice.
We also dig into gear, risk, creative burnout, and advice for emerging storytellers trying to find their lane in a noisy, algorithm-driven world.
This episode is about storytelling as craft, adventure as discipline, and creating art that honors wild places.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction & Guest Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to season four of the bird joy podcast. Your host Dexter Patterson and Jason Hall are back with more birds, more bird joy and plenty of laughs along the way. Each episode brings new stories, fun conversations and a whole flock of good vibes. We're happy you're here. We really miss the homies.
00:00:20
Speaker
And we hope you enjoy this season. You ready? Let's go. We're back with another fire guest like Jason says. Today we're joined by Vikas Bhatia, a.k.a. Vikas Wildlife, a wildlife filmmaker and visual storyteller whose work takes him from the Amazon rainforest to the polar arc. Fakas specializes in documenting animal behavior and direct relationship to habitat, capturing moments that are not only visually stunning, but deeply, deeply immersive. What makes Fakas' work especially unique is that he composes the original music for his films, blending sound and image into one cohesive story. His
Vikas' Career & Birding Journey
00:01:02
Speaker
background in music started in his teenage years playing in local bands, and today that passion shows up in his documentaries. brand collaborations and short film storytelling across platforms like Reels and TikTok and YouTube. Instagram too, that's what I found the homie. Vakastis has edited multiple wildlife and conservation documentaries with over over 100,000 views across platforms, collaborates with major brands, and is also an award-winning wildlife photographer. In 2025, he expanded into photojournalism and is now venturing into music, video, filming as well. We're excited to talk about storytelling, creativity, adventure, and what it really takes to create meaningful wildlife content in some of the most difficult places on earth.
00:01:52
Speaker
Vikas, welcome to the Bird Joy Podcast. You all have the best intros in the game. I'm to start by saying I'm hyped. Let's go.
00:02:03
Speaker
I get so excited just to introduce the people we are blessed to talk to. So, like, I don't know. Like, every time we get to interview somebody, I'm like, man, we got to make this introduction worthy of the work. it's really fun. And then we get to alternate who does them. And it's ah it just adds another vibe. It's a Bird Joy podcast thing for sure.
00:02:23
Speaker
Happy to here. Yeah, man. Like super happy to have you. Like we we follow you and you just randomly send this stuff and you're like, Hey, check this out. And it's like some rare penguin and you're like on a boat somewhere and you're getting like this high level shot. And I'm like, you send it so nonchalant as if it's just like, ah you know, you're just randomly doing it as if you just had a free Saturday. So like, you know, we really had to get you in here to be like, yo, where is the cost today? What is You You've traveled and I'm and I'm a I'm also a I'll say a former former musician, always a musician. But like you've traveled from local band practice rooms to some of the most remote ecosystems on the planet.
00:03:03
Speaker
Take us back to the beginning. Like, how did you first get pulled into the wildlife part of this? And then the and and then the and then the storytelling, like where did where did it start, man? I'm probably different from your most of your guests.
00:03:17
Speaker
I'd love to say that I loved nature growing up, but I didn't. I didn't have much of a connection to nature until the pandemic. So I'm fairly new into into nature. Birds were my gateway drug. And I got into birding during the pandemic.
00:03:31
Speaker
um there's nothing better to do and i got really obsessive with it as i'm sure you guys did don't know how you all got into it too so i'm going to be interviewing you a little bit but i'm interested in both of your stories as well i'll be honest um about three years ago i got into filming wildlife and uh my friend my friends shout out danny and david were getting married in mindo ecuador you all y' allll know about mindo ecuador at all I do not. All I know is in Ecuador, there are harpy eagles. not Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't see a harpy eagle, but ah Mendo, Ecuador is one of the best birding towns in the whole world. And so I just happened to be going to a wedding there, and I was a new birder. I was probably like one month into birding.
00:04:15
Speaker
So I bought the the field guide to Ecuador. So I had the field guide to the United States, and then
Impact of the Pandemic on Birding
00:04:20
Speaker
I got the field guide to Ecuador. And the thicknesses were were vastly different. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And i was i was mainly a yeah I was mainly just like, ah i didn't use optics, just bird by eye. So I got a pair of binoculars and I was really interested in the hummingbird section of the book. But, know, there's there's a couple hundred species at least of hummingbirds there. So I started started looking at hummingbirds locally and i came to the conclusion that there was no chance I was going to be able to identify hummingbirds on the spot in Ecuador.
00:04:51
Speaker
So I went on eBay and I bought like the cheapest camera I could buy. I thought I'd take photos of birds, like be pretty easy. just get I'd never had a camera before that. And I thought I would just use those to ID the hummingbirds specifically.
00:05:03
Speaker
And I'd get back and I'd sell that camera when I got back on eBay. I had like, you know, a couple hundred species to my life list. But I, yeah, just, the second I actually took a photo of a bird and then switched it to video mode and started getting some audio recordings. Yeah, I just got obsessed with it, to be honest. Yeah.
00:05:20
Speaker
That's wild, man, that you give me the quick, give me the quick. I was going to say that's wild that like very rarely is someone like, Hey, I started birding during the pandemic and then here in 2026, early 2026, they're like, yeah, I just got back from Antarctica. That's, uh, that's, we, we had a Tariq on the homie from Chicago. Yeah. heard that episode. Just like started birding and then just shot straight up to doing something, just immersed himself in it. So it sounds like you had a lot of that coming too. Yeah, and maybe not as as serious of a listerous, Tariq. He's done some impressive stuff up in this county. he's He's got the record in the county, yeah, for the big year? Oh, yeah. He has the top tell one two. He's got and two. Wow. He out here trying to make Michael Jordan proud in Chicago. The craziest. He broke his record with the whooping crane this time. so that's That's stupid. How how how crazy you got to be to do it. He did it two years in a row, right? Years in a How crazy you got to be to do that. yeah as you say
Wildlife Filmmaking & Music Integration
00:06:17
Speaker
I love hearing the the pandemic connection because that was that was like the gateway for a lot of people, man. Like, Birding has been having a moment ever since then, it feels like. Ever since the pandemic, it seems like birding has like become the cool thing to do. People are outside and they're paying attention to birds. So I'm not shocked. I'm not shocked that sucked you in as well.
00:06:39
Speaker
when did When did you all get started? Give me give me the quick summary, if you don't mind. You know, I always tell people i always like birds, so even when I was a little kid. But I didn't care what they were. You know what i mean? Like, I'd be like, red bird, blue bird, black bird, big old white bird, you know? You got your own names for the species. But didn't care. you You know, like, I didn't care if it was a mute swan at the local pond, and I didn't know that they were invasive. I didn't know what any of them. Where Blue Jay Cardinal? I didn't know. Crow. I didn't know, you know. And then as I got older, I just start paying attention more. My grandpa was a birder. So kind of like something they always tell me. You got a lot of your grandpa in you. I think I got a shout out my grandpa who was the birder. And I've always kind of liked them. And now, now, you know, I'm going back. Yeah, and I just started, I had a class in high school that that introduced me to it. similar like I've always liked nature, but I wasn't paying attention to birds. like I was just like any other person that liked nature. I was like, I can't wait to see a tiger one day. And like I want to go to Africa one day, or I want to this, this, and this. Yeah, that class my senior year high school slowed it down for me, made me sketch birds in the forest. And then just like Dexter, just 20 years later, here I am.
00:07:55
Speaker
you all You all are OGs. Yeah. You know what I love? When I started learning about you and and checking out your your content, it's so good.
00:08:07
Speaker
Then I found out that like you make the music for your videos and stuff, too. And then I was even more nerding out over your stuff because music has been a big part of my life as well. I mean, I owned a recording studio for a long time. and Whoa. I toured the country as a hip hop artist. So like I've always loved music. So that that kind of really drove me to you even more. Talk a little bit about your early years playing in bands. Like how do you think it shapes the way you think about rhythm and pacing in your films and and the emotions? where I always tell you like music. always tell my students and when you're setting music to a video, it's not random. Like it should not be random. You don't just grab just anything and then throw it behind it and you're done. So those emotions that you're able to to bring into your film, how has all of that early influence played into how you create your content today? Yeah. So now you're exactly right. Music is the emotional language of storytelling.
00:09:05
Speaker
um And self-taught piano at the end of high school and was in a little band for a little bit. Largely dropped music off as I got into college and my job out of college.
00:09:18
Speaker
and And birds brought me back into music, to be honest. And now I got a little recording studio in my house. I got the birds to thank for a lot of expensive stuff I've bought but I mean, you you you all know when you're when you're out birding, it's just as much audio sensation as it is visual. sure um
Challenges in Wildlife Filmmaking
00:09:37
Speaker
And I was pretty, you know, I i grew up oblivious to a lot of nature. And when I started hearing the different songs of birds, I was i was shocked.
00:09:45
Speaker
ah how beautiful some of them out some of them are. So it brought my passion for music right back right back to me. I started making music. And yeah, for the last for the last few years, I've been pretty obsessive about trying to improve my skills as a camera operator for wildlife and as a music producer. um And yeah, getting deeper into it, hoping to improve as as much as I can. Yeah, that sounds like ah it sounds like you're very much a yeah I'm going to do this. So I'm just going to go learn it. like It sounds like with the piano, if you just started birding in the and the pandemic and now you're, you know, ah just I was looking at your website earlier today and it's just like penguins floating across the water and opening you and your website like you just you were like in it, right? The videography. And so it sounds like you have like this kind of collection of things that you've gotten throughout life, right? Like what what was the moment where you were like, oh, you know, I absolutely can put my own music behind this footage. Were you going somewhere else for your music before or was that always the plan? No. So I got back into the music as I i started getting footage of birds and I i didn't really want to figure out how to like license. I knew I needed to put music into my videos to make them compelling.
00:10:53
Speaker
sure And I didn't really want to, I was a little bit too lazy to get into like figuring out how license music. And, you know, I had the, I had the skill back in the day. I wondered if I could still make music. You know, the first time I really put it all together was when I went to Columbia on a trip, on a birding trip.
00:11:09
Speaker
And I went with some birding all-stars. Like, I don't know if you know Diego Calderon. Yeah. I call him the, yeah, call him the godfather of Colombian birding. He joined the trip for a little bit and some other really top birders. And I thought I had to make that video. had to do it justice. Like Colombian birds are so beautiful and there's so many of them. And we got to see some of the real specialty and rare birds of Colombia.
00:11:33
Speaker
you know I sat down and YouTube University found out how to how to produce as professionally as I could. And that was really the first soundtrack I made to a video was a a video on the birds of Columbia. And now when you're editing wildlife footage, you know, you use a very small percentage of what you're actually taking and it can get repetitive and monotonous getting through all your footage and trying to make a story out of it. But the music brings so much excitement into the editing process for me that it it gets me through the edit. And yeah, I mean, I've been pretty busy lately. I've been balancing client video projects with my own little mini documentaries that I make.
00:12:07
Speaker
And i also have a day job as well. So I've got to be efficient. And the best way I've found to be efficient is to be motivated what I'm editing and make some music. What's better than making some music and going through some wildlife footage and putting it all together into a story? yeah Sounds amazing. And speaking of story, storytelling in the wild is wild. Literally, you have like no control.
00:12:29
Speaker
ah You don't know what the weather's going to be like. You don't know what the animals are going to do. You don't know nothing when you can't. You have no control. Right. it's pretty wild. And when I think about your work, it focuses heavily on animal behavior in relation to habitat. How do you approach storytelling differently when maybe the environment itself could be the main character? Yeah, so I'd say in in wildlife cinematography, you you know you can have plans and you can have a shot list and most of that goes out the window the second you get out there. So i'm I'm mainly going out and maybe unlike a traditional birder who's going out trying to identify every single bird they see, I'm going out there and looking for stories. So looking for like unique behaviors or connections between the animals that I'm looking for and and the habitat. Yeah.
00:13:17
Speaker
So I'm really taking what nature gives me when I'm doing storytelling. And then in the edit, you know, i put those put those moments together to tell the story of what I'm seeing. But you're
Filming Adventures & Techniques
00:13:26
Speaker
right, it's wild. And it's really, unless you got a big crew and several months to dedicate to capturing behaviors, you're taking what you're pretty much taking what nature is giving you when it comes to storytelling in the wild. Yeah, you're sure you're not promising anything on return visits or anything. So like you got to get what's there. And I love that you're intentional about looking for the action, looking for where is the actual story, right? Where yeah where is something unique here that is just happening right in front of me? And that's documentary, right? Like that's documenting what's just what you're just seeing. And I love that so much is just pay attention, man, and and look for the stories because they do unfold in front of us. We just got to be ready for them. Absolutely.
00:14:07
Speaker
Absolutely. mayor One of my favorite things about your Instagram page is when you just have a random story and it's just like a shot of your camera pointed at some random bush and you and you have a question of like, what am I here for? And in my head, I'm like, what? what is he there for? He's in the Rio Grande Valley. What's he, you know, what's, what's, what's the home he's trying to get. And then seeing it kind of play out through time. Like sometimes you'll post like when you do actually get a shot or like just some more information. And like, I find that to be so interesting. And and you talked a little bit on it, you know, like you can't necessarily plan out
00:14:39
Speaker
what exactly you want the birds to do. But when you arrive in a place that you've never been before, I'm sure you've done some research, but like, what is your creative process? it sounds like you do let it come to you, but do you have like, like a set travel plan, a set environment that you want to be in? Like, talk us through how you how you plan that out a little bit, a little bit more logistically. Yeah, so it's it's a little bit different. So I'm currently in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas, and I'm working on the biggest project to date. And we can we can get into that if you want. Traditionally speaking, I've gotten an opportunity to go on a trip or, you know, the company that's running the trip needs some content or footage. And so I'll get an opportunity to go on a trip, ah like to Antarctica or up to the high Arctic. Sure.
00:15:22
Speaker
I'm sort of trying to trying to get whatever I can within the bounds of what they already have planned. That's what I've been doing a lot historically, or going to an area for a company that needs footage of a product in a certain area.
00:15:33
Speaker
Right now, I bought myself three months in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas. it's a you know It's a pretty important area in terms of it needs a lot of help conservation-wise right now. And it's one of the amazing, amazing areas of America.
00:15:49
Speaker
um It's one of the areas that really makes me proud to be an American. Mm-hmm. And there's just been so much commercial development. There's so much activity because it's you know the political border of US and Mexico. sure um So I bought myself three months here.
00:16:03
Speaker
And that this is a lot more structured. i'm i'm going I spent the whole first month basically just scouting out, looking to see what I think I could find and then capture at a later date. So I was going to every park, every piece of private land that I could get into that people would give me permission for along the Rio Grande Valley. Sorry, along along the Rio Grande River, which is the border between U.S. and Mexico. And really trying to document the beauty of the wildlife there. And also what the state of nature here is here. Because...
00:16:31
Speaker
It's one of the best habitats for a group of unique birds that can pretty much only be be found here in the United States. And there's just so much habitat loss here. There's small percentages of some really critical habitats left here. But back to your question, yeah, I i did spend a lot of time here scouting out with the intention of then bringing you know my bigger camera rigs and getting the animals used to them and then trying to capture a specific thing. So... When I'm pointing at branches here, I i know that there's something likely to happen there.
00:16:59
Speaker
And it's oftentimes a waiting game. Awesome. Awesome. You mentioned going to Columbia for your like your first birding trip, which is kind of crazy. hi columbia And then going to the Arctic, Antarctica, what's been your favorite trip so far? i mean, it feels like it's been a bit of a whirlwind, but why did that trip specifically, your favorite trip stand out from a creative process?
00:17:25
Speaker
Yeah, so so one trip that stood out, in the summer of 2025, I went up into the really high Arctic, close to the North Pole, with a company called Polar X. And I got an opportunity with them that just came out of nowhere. And they are they're truly one of the coolest companies in the world.
00:17:41
Speaker
um They're responsible for helping film ah sequences for like some of the biggest Hollywood movies, some of the biggest documentaries, when they need an Arctic scene.
00:17:51
Speaker
So they filmed scenes for like Avengers, you know, big movies like that. And then also some of the biggest wildlife documentaries like Frozen Planet. And yeah they've even, they delivered the opening shot for Frozen Planet 2.
00:18:02
Speaker
which is one of favorite wildlife documentaries. So they reached out to me. They saw some videos I'd posted on YouTube and reached out. And I got to go up into the high Arctic with their team that you know is has has been responsible for some of the greatest wildlife shots I think ever captured.
00:18:18
Speaker
i had basically I think I had 48 hours notice for that trip. there They reached out. but Somebody probably fell out, and that's how I got the opportunity. That's right. I reached out, so had to pack my bags, go to the top of the world. No idea what it was like up in the high Arctic. It was my first time going there.
00:18:34
Speaker
um But it was it was really nice because you know getting up to the high Arctic is extremely expensive. And from a filmmaking perspective, getting a crew out there is is a lot of the time, you have to be really budget conscious. So documentaries in the past have been really focused on mammals there. Polar bears are the main target for most documentary work up there. I got a particular liking to birds. So I was i was doing a lot of birding up there, and there are quite a few bird species that are pretty special up there. So I got to film some some really cool behavior, including the mating display of an ivory gole. And I've been searching. I don't i don't actually think anyone's ever filmed a mating display.
00:19:11
Speaker
You just said ivory gole. You just made his whole life just happen right there. You know about the ivory gole? Jason is like the biggest gold nerd I know. so It's the number one gold my list in North America. Okay. like And you got the mating. Because people only see him usually when they get down here for something. But you were up there in their home.
00:19:33
Speaker
You saw them. They're like, I'm done. I'm going to throw my headphones off. Get out of here. Jason, you seen Sabin's gold? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you have. See, now it's my turn to be jealous. I'm equally jealous of you seeing Sabin's gold. Okay. You just made Jason's day. We just added some goals to our conversation. That's just incredible. And like the fact that it was 48 hours and they were like, yo, you trying to roll? And like, I imagine that that gift from the office when Steve Carell is like, it's happening. Everybody stay calm. Like that's what I imagine you were just like, oh my God, I got 48 hours to get ready to go to the top of the world. And like, that sounds super incredible. It's kind of a side question. Like, what was that like when they just slid into the DMs and were like, yo, trying to roll? Like, what was that next 48 hours like getting ready to go?
00:20:21
Speaker
Crazy. Barely slept. So I got a day job and I'm i always, i don't know about you all, but I am always low on PTO. i pretty much all you yeah so um'm I'm begging people to help out with some of my responsibilities, trying to get some more PTO time. I ended up having to work a pretty decent amount remotely while I was while i was up there. While you were at the top of the world. While I was at the top of the world. Hey, you got to make it work, baby. That's what I'm talking about. The boat had Starlink, but there was like a you know a worldwide Starlink outage for a few days. i was literally on a call for work. And then there was Starlink went out for like 36 hours and nobody at my work knew where I was. oh and it was yeah i mean that was
00:21:04
Speaker
to it's It's not even easy to book a flight to get up. I went i flew into Longyearbyen, which is the northernmost town in the world. And even just trying to logistically get up there, it's like 30 hours of travel. So I was i was just, the opportunity, i had known about Polar X for a while. And, you know, you write down like five companies that would be, be a dream to work with. They're, they're on my list of five. So I just had to make it happen. Had to make it work hadn't work. That's just a really, really incredible experience, man. And I wonder like, your answer doesn't have to be Ivory Gold, but like you've filmed some really amazing creatures. Is there any animal or, or even type of behavior or a challenging situation or an emotional connection that you have with an animal? Like, is there any set of film that you've gotten that's your favorite for whatever reason?
00:21:50
Speaker
That's a really good question. One of the good things about filming is if you're birding, maybe you've seen like herons so many times that they're not interesting when you see them. But when you're filming, herons' behavior can be so variable and there's so many different stories you can tell. I've spent, you know, herons are one of the things locally that I can see. I'm i'm based right outside of Washington, D.C. Okay. And the wildlife ain't great out there. Okay.
00:22:12
Speaker
but there are But there are a lot of couple of different heron species. And when I go to my local spot, it's like I'm friends with the herons. They let me get super close to them. And I've spent probably two years trying to collect a variety of different behaviors that herons do. One thing, so I haven't put this out yet, but I've i've collected the the footage to make a mini documentary on green herons specifically.
00:22:33
Speaker
And the behavior I've really wanted to highlight is sometimes they'll catch tiny fish that are probably too tiny to make a chloric impact for them. They'll throw them back in the water and use it to bait. You already know. They're so cool, man. The first time I saw a green heron chum the water, my eye was, I was like blown. I was like, what did I just see? Like, this is crazy. You know? Yeah. And then they'll like, if they don't get a bite on it, they'll pick it back up and throw it back in the water. Like they're literally fishing. It's so crazy. Like it is, it is mind blowing.
00:23:08
Speaker
They invented fishing. Yeah, right. And the fact that they're so quick that they can, like they don't have a they don't have a line and a hook. Like they wait and they have to strike fast enough to catch a fish that's trying to snag that little snack and dip back down. Like that's the part that gets me. Like they're like just lightning fast, you know. So crazy. They are the most impressive fishers out there. Yeah, I think so. I think Bro, you talked about 48 hours notice. You're going to go to the top of the world, 30 plus hours of travel. You got a job that you still supposed to be working. Talk to us about like- yeah
00:23:43
Speaker
Talk to us about, maybe it was that experience, the most challenging footage that you've had to to capture, whether it was weather, terrain, animal behavior. What was the most challenging footage for you to capture? Yeah, hard to say anything other than Antarctica. That is that is a cruel climate. I don't think humans are meant to be there.
00:24:05
Speaker
um But I really wanted to capture penguins porpoising. That's when they typically as groups of penguins surface out of the water in and then out of the water. So they're swimming and jumping out of the water and then coming right back in. Is that the footage on your website, on the homepage? I think so. Yeah, it's it's a stunning ah behavior to see. to see And it's it's pretty tough to capture. Most of the time when you're in Antarctica, you're ah you're on a boat. And if you're getting on the land, there's a lot of regulations.
00:24:31
Speaker
And penguins are kind of clumsy on land. Yeah. You don't really get the vibe of a penguin on the land. When you get them on water, they they basically turn into a fish. like They are super athletic creatures in the water. And I really wanted to capture them swimming, which is difficult to do. Usually you're on an icebreaker ship of some sort when you go to Antarctica. So you're pretty high up. You know you got to get that eye level footage of an animal to make it really special.
00:24:56
Speaker
So I went out on a kayak and spent... i don't even know how much time, kayaking around the ice water and hoping that a group would porpoise towards me. And I eventually got it. So
Patience in Wildlife Filmmaking
00:25:06
Speaker
I'm making ah a short little documentary on my trip to Antarctica. And that's sort of the the pivotal moment. So I'm giving out spoilers. I spent a lot of time trying to capture penguins porpoising at eye level in a little kayak in the ice water out there. But it was, you know, the weather was was pretty rough. It was and so unseasonably windy when I went there, like 60, 70 mile an hour wind. And my face was cut up. It was just bleeding when I would go inside from the hail and the wind. I'm looking at this footage. And you're on a kayak, bro? ah like coak You're insane. You're insane. I'm just saying. like this is yeah Listen, folks,
00:25:44
Speaker
dot com V-I-K-A-S. V-I-K-A-S. Wildlife.com. Just go there. yeah Check it out. you won't You won't make it past the first page. I promise you. But yeah are those, um are those ah what's the word I'm looking for? Gentoo penguins? Gentoo penguins. Those are Gentoo? Yeah. So there are, so mainly Gentoo penguins, a couple of Adelian chinstraps and some of the footage I got. The three species that i spent a lot of time recording were the Gentoo, the Adelian, and the chinstrap penguins. And didn't see an emperor of penguin, so I have an excuse to go back to it. If anyone wants to take me back out to Antarctica, I'm open. Listen, you and me both, man. I'll just go to carry your camera gear, like if you need somebody to come down.
00:26:22
Speaker
was going to say, put Jason in your carry-on luggage so he can get ivory. Yeah, I'll just carry your luggage and crack jokes, keep everybody light on their feet, like let me know. Yeah. I'd love to go to Antarctica with you, Jason. Yeah, that would be amazing. Listen, universe, universe, make it happen. We all need to go. Wildlife filmmaking is a lot of waiting and a lot of long stretches where nothing is happening. And I think that's some of the things that I appreciate about you and my other friends that wildlife photographers or cinematographers is they 90% of the time is nothing. And then you get that, then you get that moment. So how do you stay engaged during those? Like when you're sitting under that bush in the Rio Grande waiting for the special birds you want to get and they're not showing up for eight hours. Like how do you keep yourself moving? Yeah. So it's probably even more than 90% for me. Maybe I'm not as good at predicting, but I'd say maybe like 95 to 99% of the time I'm waiting and not getting anything. And I don't, I'm not a particularly patient person, but I'd say I'm pretty stubborn. And so it's mainly stubbornness to get the shot that I want that, that drives me to sit there and wait there. I know this is controversial. I kind want to get both your takes on this, but I'm, I listen to music when I'm out in nature and I know in birding, that's like, you're missing some bird Yeah.
00:27:37
Speaker
Interesting. When you're sitting in a spot for hours, sometimes you got to. And i'm I mean, I'm listening to your podcast. I'm listening to other podcasts. Okay. Okay. All right. I'll allow it. it.
00:27:49
Speaker
Y'all are not listening to any music or anything when you're out there? I burp by ear too much. There'll be times you just mind you might not hit see anything, but you might hear it. And then that could change you know the direction you're going to go. or you know i mean Or it might say, oh, I'm going to stay here because I heard it. yeah It's hard for me to like not be listening to the environment around me when I burp by ear so much.
00:28:15
Speaker
That's literally how I make my videos. I'll hear something. I'm like, all right, let's find it. You know, I was it was so funny because one of the homies was like, bro, goes out and looks for something and finds it every time. And then I was like, I should do a ah a blooper reel when I don't find it. I just got to see like a pouting Dexter. And there's the most disappointed person on the planet. You know what I mean? Just Pouting, you know, it's bro. It's you be shocked. I'm probably, you know, if it's, but you know, if it's baseball, i' um I'm batting pretty good. You know what I'm saying? So I'm saying, you know, I'll, I'll look at it from the lens of baseball and that means I'm a, I'm an elite hitter.
00:28:55
Speaker
Um, but, percentage
Filming Rare Species & Conservation Efforts
00:28:56
Speaker
what So when you when you look into the camera and you say, let's go, and you're you're off, what percentage are you completing the video? I'd say 30%, 40% of the time. Okay. That's elite for baseball. yeah Although so i would I would love to see a video that just said, who wants to help me find nothing? Nothing.
00:29:14
Speaker
Or I should just do the whole intro, right? And then we just don't find it. Maybe he's doing nothing. We leave people hanging. And you're like, wait, but did he find it? hey, you know, maybe in 2026, I just hurt whole bunch of feelings. You know what I mean? Just start not finding nothing. I'm going to be the reason that happens. I'm not endorsing that. I think the video's the same. We all love them. They all bring excitement to us. They get hyped to go birding. Oh, that's so funny. That's so funny.
00:29:46
Speaker
This is crazy. You talked about being out, bro, for maybe hours at a time. You're on top of the world. The wind's beating you to heck. And, you know, you're just, like, miserable. Is there a moment in the field that kind of sticks with you that reminded you, like, this is why I do this? You know, you said you're stubborn. Have you had a moment where you're like, this is it? Like, this is why I'm doing this work. Yeah, a lot of those moments. A lot of those moments. One that one that comes to mind is when I was in, do you know the habitat called the Perimo up in Columbia? It's real high elevation above the plant line. And there's a really unique set of plants. This is in the Andes of Columbia. There's a a couple of hummingbirds up there that live in sort of hostage stamp size ranges, like only on one mountain where this Perimo habitat exists. And
00:30:34
Speaker
When I was up there trying to capture footage of of a hummingbird called the Buffy Helmet Crest, which is a super rare, super localized hummingbird in in the, I think it's like 17,000, 18,000 feet up in the air, cold, windy habitat. oh but You see a hummingbird that is like erri all the iridescence of a hummingbird.
00:30:52
Speaker
Living up there. It looks like it's like a like a peacock mixed with a hummingbird. This bird is crazy and looking. Yeah, mixed with a titmouse. Yeah. Mixed with a titmouse. Yeah. But it's like that's tiny, you know? punches No point is long. And I'm like, I got nothing to complain about. I got a jacket here. yeah yeah i can protect myself. And this this tiny little hummingbird, and it it lives on the slope of a volcano. I've got nothing to complain about. But yeah, no, that was definitely a moment where, you know, getting getting to film a hummingbird that lives in such a small range and such an incredibly cool habitat. Sure.
00:31:28
Speaker
That was definitely one of those moments for me. up and As I was Googling this, I went to your website, too, and and looking at your photography, too. And like your pictures are fire, too. Like you got some good stuff on there, man. Make sure you go check out the homies website. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. i I will say I i do video like 95% of the time. I'm usually focused on video, but i've I've gotten a couple of commercial sign assignments for photography where i focused on photography.
00:31:57
Speaker
And it's it's sort of a ah newer thing that I'm starting to really enjoy. That's so interesting because most people go the other way. You know, they start with photography, then they realize like, cause i well, maybe I'm just talking about myself. But like, I always want to reach out to you be like, homie, like, where do I start? Because I can't go by red, the $7,000 red camera body. I don't, you know, like, where do I even go? And like, it's just so interesting to hear you take this path of, it almost seems like a little bit against the grain, not into wildlife growing up, got into it with COVID, jumped straight into videography, had to reconnect with the music side of things and bring it together. Right. It's just, just really, really interesting. Have you like. Appreciate that
00:32:35
Speaker
Yeah, man, i just I just think it's a really interesting story. Like, have you, when you've been out on these assignments, has has anything, like, happened that, you know, a different species came along, some circumstances in in, you know, wildlife circumstances changed the direction of that project where you guys, you know, shifted the focus? Yeah, exactly that.
00:32:53
Speaker
When I was in Costa Rica, have a friend named Juan Diego Vargas, who lives in Costa Rica, who has started one of the coolest nature centers I know of. He bought farmland, so agriculture land, and restored it back to its native habitat. The project's been going on for about a decade. And the purpose was to try and attract as much wildlife with particular focus on birds. I don't even, he's got like hundreds of some of the coolest and rarest birds come into his little plot of like, I think it's like 10 or 28 years. I met Juan at Indiana Dunes Birding Festival and we We actually talked about you. I sent you a message when I was there and was like, Juan told me to tell you what's up. And they got like a super cool, Juan told me to tell you what's up when we were there and we were hanging out together and he was telling me about this new business idea that they were doing where they setting up cameras on all their features and stuff. So people could, Jason, like what you did with that event that you all did where you were birding, virtual birding. Yeah. Yeah. So they have some stuff that they're doing down there. Juan on his land where they want to be doing stuff like that, where people can watch the cameras and stuff. But they were there and they were they were a couple of the tour guides actually for the Indiana Bird Festival, which was really cool. And I guess they've been going there for some years and it's a good way for them to to kind of promote the business that they got going on down there. So shout out to the Juan. And shout out to his nature center, The Nest. So cool, man. Which has been his project. But yeah, so I was filming a little mini documentary to just tell the world about this incredibly cool project that he's working on.
00:34:32
Speaker
And i think, you know, we've lost so much habitat worldwide. And in every single country, a lot of habitat has been lost to to development. I think ah a big portion of bringing nature back to where it needs to be is going to be restoring land and I'd say they're at the forefront in Costa Rica of of land restoration and how effective it can be. But we were down there and we got a call that a rufous-vented ground cuckoo, which is you know one of the rarest birds in Costa Rica. and An absolute ghost species down there was spotted. Yeah, an hour about an hour away.
00:35:04
Speaker
We dropped like two days of filming, just going out there trying to film this rufous-vented ground cuckoo. Yeah, you You know the deal. People might get like people get divorces over chasing that bird. Like yeah yeah that's a really, really hard one to get. so it's cool. So it it was like an hour or two away from where we were staying.
00:35:24
Speaker
The whole ride over one day it goes calling, calling people who are looking for the bird. And they're they're trying to make like international travel to come down and try and see it. Oh. While it was down there. And, you know, we we found a way to incorporate it into the story we were trying to tell. ah Because the the bird can actually get into areas in the outskirts of of where the nest is situated. And I think it's a matter of time before before that you know, he's he's trying to get land adjacent to where he is. And there's a national park that's not that far away. And if he can create a wildlife corridor...
00:35:55
Speaker
I think he's going to be, people are going to be going down to the nest one day looking for the Rufus Fenton Grand Cuckoo. hopefully Hopefully not getting divorces over it. Hopefully they'll be able to go there quick, get it, go home, and i keep their families in order. Sure,
Balancing Creativity & Conservation
00:36:07
Speaker
sure, sure.
00:36:08
Speaker
We got to go to Costa Rica. We got to go to all these places. Juan said he wanted us both to come down there, too. When's the Bird Joy tour coming along. We're to have to make it happen, man. because we yeah We really are. like it's It's no excuse at this point. Listen, my brain, I have a list of places that I need to go and things that I need to go see just after this much of this conversation. Um, let's talk a little bit about your work with some of these brands, right? So you work with like major, major optics brands like Swarovski. How do you balance, you know, kind of your creative freedom with what the expectation of the brand is. And that's ah something that a lot of creators have to deal with, you know, and doing all that while staying kind of true to what your style is, what your storytelling voice is like, how do you have you come through that journey? Yeah, so initially, so I started accepting or I got my first commercial assignment about a year ago from Swarovski Optic. And when I started, i wasn't saying no to any client work, especially from a company like Swarovski. And I really wanted to to prove my, you know, prove my worth to them. And I've had a great relationship with them. They've kept me busy over the last year, but right now it's getting really tough to balance. Day job, client work, I got a couple more clients that are sort of consistent and recurring along with Swarovski Optic.
00:37:23
Speaker
And so on this current trip in the Rio Grande Valley, I kind of had to put a pause on on the client work I'm doing because I really wanted to get the best footage I could get for for this story that I'm trying to tell here in the Rio Grande Valley. But it's you know it's a struggle. I'm analyzing you know as work comes in on a case-by-case basis. And yeah, I think it's going to be a struggle going forward it as well. Swarovski Optic, has they've done such a great job with conservation. they've actually They've got some projects in Costa Rica and in Central America where they're buying land and restoring it as well. And those are those are really impactful to me. And i I love to help with those kinds of missions. They got ah they got a little rainforest called the Swarovski Optic Rainforest in the Oso Peninsula of Costa Rica. Worth checking out. But yeah, i mean, I also, you know, I like to make these little mini documentaries where I have complete control and I can make the music. I can do the voiceover, put the story together myself.
00:38:18
Speaker
um Yeah, it's tough balance. i don't have I don't have a good answer for you. I'm still figuring it out right now. I mean, if your first assignment was a year ago, you're still, you're still you know, beginning. Like, you know, I say, i say you know, you go to the website, beginner is not the word that would come to mind, but you're still a no beginner.
00:38:34
Speaker
A beginner in terms of these business relationships. And, you know, probably we'll come across some folks that want you to do something that you're not really feeling right. But it doesn't sound like you've had to deal with too much of that just yet. And it's really nice to hear that you have some good, good relationships so far. You know, I i will say I've gotten some,
00:38:50
Speaker
I've gotten opportunities for stuff that's not, from people to film stuff that's not like nature related at all. And I've pretty much like turned down all of those those kinds of things. that i got opportunities to film a car collection and stuff like that. And I'm really trying to focus my time. You know, I got limited time. Ain't no cars in the Antarctica. not know. No
Tips for Aspiring Filmmakers & Q&A
00:39:11
Speaker
Gentoo penguins. You kidding me? That's Tell Tell them.
00:39:17
Speaker
Yeah, you got it. You got to find that balance. And you've talked about you. You've done long form. You love doing the short form documentaries. You do short form social media content. You're now doing photojournalism. How does your mindset shift between those different formats? Or do you kind of go into it just looking for the story like you mentioned earlier?
00:39:37
Speaker
When I'm doing a client project, if it's I upfront really try to figure out what the goal that the the client's trying to achieve is. like In terms of photojournalism, usually I'm trying to capture a specific story. And so I am in like pre-production coming up with a story with the client that i think that they think will will work for their brand in terms of endorsement and then going out there really focused uh like one example is i did an article for sorofsky optic on migrating bald eagles and there's ah a place not too far from where i live called conowingo dam where it can be a couple hundred bald don't know if you've heard that spot it's kind of legendary spot along the east coast yeah so i you know i went there and there was a lot of different birds other than bald eagles and a lot of ones that are cool and i i saw some really cool behavior that It was really hard for me to not go into video mode and start trying to film it. But I try to stay, you know, I had to stay really focused and capture the things that were pertinent to the story. So I mean, a lot of what I do is determined before I go out for client assignments and just staying really, really focused on on what I'm trying to accomplish there. Yeah, I just try to stay focused on whatever the assignment is that I'm doing. sure sure sure it makes sense it makes sense you know uh conowingo great place and you go down there and you see just like 800 bros with like 1 000 millimeter lenses and everybody's trying to get this satating shot the bald eagle hitting the water you know getting bringing the fish out you know everybody's trying to get the shot that everybody's seen but i it's it's interesting that you've been over there because i like going when there's nobody there when there's no eagles because actually the trail down there has some amazing warblers and in the spring, like tons of. Absolutely. stop Yeah. Just speaking of spaces, I'm sure there's people listening now that are inspired and maybe you've, you've put them over the hump in terms of saying, yes, I'm going to try to do this. So what advice would you give like emerging visual storytellers, right? Who want to tell meaningful stories, but might be a little overwhelmed by the gear or the platforms or the software or the algorithm, where would you tell them to start?
00:41:30
Speaker
good question. So, I mean, people have probably heard this. It's, it's really not about the gear you have. And I think with filming wildlife, it's sort of an athletic pursuit.
00:41:41
Speaker
You have to have the discipline of of almost an athlete and go out there and and practice. And it's not really a concept that's that's thought of much in in filming wildlife or photographing wildlife. Usually you go out there and you see something and you're you know you' trying to take photos of what you see. i think... my The biggest piece of advice I could give to people trying to do this is go out and don't even, whatever your subject is, don't don't focus on that. Go out there with the purpose of trying to practice a skill. like Manual focus is really important in wildlife cinematography. So like I'll go out and I'll focus on a leaf and I'll like take my camera off the leaf and see how quick I can get on the leaf, focus on it. Leaf moves in the wind, try and stay, keep the focus on the leaf as it's moving.
00:42:24
Speaker
I do a lot of boring stuff like that. And you got to have discipline to practice those kinds of things because it's it's not super exciting to do. To get really, really good, you you have to have that. Yeah. You know what that reminds me of? That reminds me the story of Kobe Bryant when he yeah he like lost a playoff game or something. They were like, yeah, we we came back to the stadium and he was there three hours later just shooting the same shot that he missed during the game like a thousand times. And I'm like, that's that's no that's that's awesome, man, because that's really good advice. Because people think like, oh, I did it once, I can do it all the time. But like you really have to practice. And I forgot manual focus with cinematography. like I could never...
00:43:00
Speaker
Most of what you're doing when you're filming wildlife is manual focusing. But i'm I'm surprised. I know you you were born in Cali, weren't you, Jason? I know you're living in Philly right now. And I'm bringing up Kobe Bryant as 76ers fan. Listen, I'm not, I am a, I am a Lakers fan, but we, you know, we, we live different lives these days. So, you know, it's fine. Oh, this is, this has been so inspiring. So fantastic. Now we got to put you on the hot seat. vi because say oh bre all It's time for a little lightning round action.
00:43:37
Speaker
quick answers. First first thing that comes to mind. right. You ready? Sip of water. Sip of water.
00:43:46
Speaker
Favorite animal you have ever filmed? Gentoo penguin. All right, solid. Favorite habitat to film? Haramo, a high elevation above the plant line in the central Andes of Columbia. but Most difficult environment you've worked in.
00:44:02
Speaker
I'm going to say the high Arctic. you If you go north enough, you go farther north than any land and you're getting into pack ice and or you know just ice where there's ice frozen around the center of the North Pole. Not easy to not easy to be there. Sure, sure. What's your most memorable single moment behind the camera?
00:44:24
Speaker
gonna go I'm going to go to a moment we already we already talked about, but filming the the courtship and and mating display of the ivory gulf. I love it, Jason.
00:44:34
Speaker
I put that in there on purpose. One piece of gear you can't live without. I have a parabolic microphone. You got one of those too. You got one of those.
00:44:45
Speaker
Yeah, you can really film in on a point. And I bring that everywhere I go. It's incredible, man. I actually created contraption to strap it to my Swarovski scope so I can like point it at whatever my scope's looking at. So it's been great. Editing or filming?
00:44:59
Speaker
Filming. Music first or visuals first? Visuals first. All right, last one here. Dream species you still need to fill. Oh, there's so many.
00:45:10
Speaker
You only get one. That's like a duck and a favorite bird, right? Yeah. What question is that? It changes all the time. You one, bro. You get one. But right now, I'm going to say, since I'm in the Rio Grande Valley and i'm I'm pretty close to it, a whooping crane.
00:45:26
Speaker
I can probably drive two or three hours and have a reasonable shot of seeing one. And they're one of the you know endangered species in the United States. And they're huge and very cool birds. Yeah. Yeah, they nest here in Wisconsin. So I'm very lucky. Yeah, Dexter just has him hanging out. Oh, yeah. I see him every year, you know. It's funny that I just say that. Yeah, I just see him every year, you know. I want
Closing & Listener Encouragement
00:45:48
Speaker
to see a whooping crane, holla at your boy. I'm coming up to Wisconsin.
00:45:51
Speaker
Vikas, this has, no, honestly, this has been an incredible conversation. We've been wanting to do this. I know our listeners are going to love this. Your work sits at that intersection of sound, story, and wild places. It's been so inspiring to hear how you are very intentional, how creative you are from process, start to finish. Just, man, thank you for taking some time to share your journey with us today. And for everybody out there listening, and make sure you check out his work. Go to that website. I'm telling you, it's amazing. You can also go off and see the YouTube videos that he has from all these adventures. Thank you, dude. Thank you so much. Thank you both. And it's an honor to be on here. I've been a fan, I think, pretty much since day one of your podcast. And I think not only are you all large amassing a large audience, I think you're having a big impact with the work you're doing. And I believe in the work And if anyone is wondering when to listen to Bird Joy podcast, when I listen to it is wake up before sunset. I got maybe an hour or two to drive podcast or two on. It gets me hyped to go birding. So try it yourself. And then maybe we on the way home as well, listen to another one. Love that homie. Appreciate it. And for everybody out there, remember birding is for everyone and we will catch you all next time.
00:47:05
Speaker
Peace.