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Joy, Justice & Birding with Corina Newsome
851 Plays24 days ago
We’re celebrating Black Birders Week with a very special guest: Corina Newsome — wildlife biologist, conservation scientist, and one of the original co-organizers of the first Black Birders Week in 2020. In this inspiring episode, Corina joins Dexter and Jason to talk about her journey from zookeeper to passionate advocate for environmental justice, and how she’s helping reshape who feels welcome in the outdoors.
Corina reflects on the moment she fell in love with wildlife, the movement-building behind Black Birders Week (founded by Black AF in STEM), and how becoming a mother is deepening her connection to nature. This episode is full of heart, humor, and real talk—from favorite birding snacks and awe-filled moments to the ongoing work of creating inclusive spaces in science and nature. It’s a celebration of joy, justice, and unapologetic presence in wild places.
💚 Follow Corina Newsome
Instagram: @hood_naturalist
LinkedIn: Corina Newsome
Website: www.corinanewsome.com
🌍 Learn More & Get Involved
BIPOC Birding Club of Wisconsin: bipocbirdingclub.org
In Color Birding Club: incolorbirding.org
🎧 Subscribe to Bird Joy wherever you listen to podcasts and follow @thebirdjoypod for more episodes celebrating birds, community, and belonging.
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Transcript
Introduction to Season Three and Guest Karina Newsome
00:00:00
Speaker
You're tuned in to season three of the Bird Joy podcast hosted by Dexter Patterson and Jason Hall. This podcast is for all the homies across the globe, a place to celebrate birds, community, and joy together.
00:00:15
Speaker
We're back with more stories from the birding world, more voices doing dope work in STEM, and more reasons to get outside and enjoy the birds. Are you ready for some bird joy? Let's go. Today's guest is someone who brings the heat when it comes to environmental justice, biodiversity conservation, and straight up bird joy. She's a wildlife biologist, a passionate Black birder, and a change maker. Karina Newsome is here with us today. Yes, as we're recording this episode, it's the first day of Black
Karina's Journey to Birding and Black Birders Week
00:00:49
Speaker
Birders Week. Karina was one of the first co-organizers and the incredible crew at Black AF and STEM has since turned it into the global celebration and movement we know today. Karina has a background in zoo and wildlife biology, has a master's in biology, passion. passion for bird conservation and a deep commitment to ensuring that conservation also centers people, especially marginalized groups and people of color who have often, often been excluded for that conversation. She is also ah new mom, a fierce advocate and a storyteller whose work powerfully connects science, justice and joy. We've got a lot to talk about today. Yes, we do. Yes, we do. So let's get into it. And everybody, we are welcoming Karina Newsome to the Bird Joy podcast.
00:01:37
Speaker
that' Thank you so much. Thank you. It's such an honor to be here. I couldn't even hold myself in. I'm sorry. i'm interrupting y'all while you're talking. It's all good. it's all good It's the joy. It's the joy. The joy is everywhere. Thank you. I'm honored. Those are such generous words. Thank you. You got it. You got it. Let's start at the beginning.
00:01:57
Speaker
You know, young or youngish, Karina running around there years ago, out there experiencing the world. What moment or experience made you first fall in love with wildlife? And and was that birds or did birds come in later? Birds come in came in way later, I've loved wildlife from the time I was, from my first memories as a very young kid. And the books that I had at home, my parents and my grandparents really fostered my love of wildlife. And I remember having the, I think they're called Wildlife Fact Files book that has like it like a three ring binder with like the, you know I'm talking Yeah, the exactly. And the koala in there. Those are like the skink memories.
00:02:34
Speaker
That's where it really started for me. And of course, PBS shows I was watching on TV. um I really felt like Steve Irwin was my uncle. Genuinely. Shout out to Steve Irwin and PBS, especially today. Shout out. Like viewers like me, you know what I'm saying? um And so for you know that that's where it started.
00:02:54
Speaker
And then it wasn't until I was almost done with my undergraduate career. Right. I had studied. I had learned. I had worked at my local zoo in Philadelphia. Like. I wasn't thrilled about birds. I really didn't care much about birds. And I was just thinking about the ornithology class I had to take as this thing to get off the, you know, checkbox to get out undergrad, right? And I was actually not looking forward to it because of how many birds I knew you had to memorize. And so, but when I got in there, my professor, the first thing I remember is my professor was so, to the name of this podcast, joyful, like in a weird way that I had not seen any professor excited about the subject that we were teaching. Even him, like I had other people playing it. I had other classes with him. You know what I'm saying? And I'm like, are you okay? Like, I genuinely was like, am I missing something? Because I had, I think I had mammology with the same professor and he was chill. He was relaxed. Mammals, cool, right? Birds?
00:03:45
Speaker
I said, I'm missing something. And then the first time he started showing us like some local birds, I caught it. It like jumped onto me. Before I knew anything, his joy about birds jumped onto me. And it's stuck with me and, you know, it's grown into my own joy since then. And I'm still he's still we still vibe on birds. Very grateful for him. His name is Dr. Jason Corder. But yeah, I didn't know or think or care about birds. I was like 20, 22, 22 years twenty two years old no Shout out to Dr. Jason. Jason, what's up? Hey, and in Philadelphia, what's going on here? I'm coming to Philly this week and now I'm even more excited. Oh, listen, listen. I went to school Ohio, which is fine, but Philly is where it's at.
00:04:29
Speaker
Philly is where it's at. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for saying that out loud because feel like the people need to know, right? This is where it's at. We'll find out. So cool. So the bird joy what gotcha.
00:04:41
Speaker
Yeah. I always tell people like, ah you know, always tell people don't you know, you go into some of these traditional burning spaces and they're telling people to be quiet and you got people in there like holding a joy back. You know, it's like, why Why? Like you literally don't understand that letting that joy out could literally spark something in in a person like it did you. And I. I love that story so much. yeah So much. What I think about, you know, over the last few years, Karina, I've been following your path a little bit from working in zoos and doing field research, national advocacy. Is there a standout moment or moments in your career so far that make you really proud?
Birding Community and Personal Impact
00:05:20
Speaker
Hmm. That's a great question.
00:05:22
Speaker
I think I would have to say, so the the the moment that comes to my mind, and Jason, I was thinking about this on my drive back home from the grocery store, from the farmer's market. I heard an indigo bunting, and I was like, for some reason, that made me think of when we were in I came home to Philly and went on one of the birding trips to Uletted, like in Wissahickland Park somewhere, something like that. And i that was my first time birding in my hometown. I had never been birding in Philadelphia because I didn't catch the bird joy until after I...
00:05:48
Speaker
left for college my mom and sister and niece. Oh, yeah. That was the proudest ever felt because they they don't really know a whole lot about what my work entails or, you know, like the community of birders or anything. Right. And people were just saying nice things. I think someone had said something nice about me or something. And my mom started crying like she just, yeah just a yeah a but you know, on this birding trip where I knew a whole bunch of people and we were all just excited about birds, excited to see each other and be with each other. And like I've never been birding with my mom or my family so that it was like so many firsts there. And I was just so excited to be able to show my mom like, look how beautiful this is. And we get this together. so that's what stands out in my mind.
00:06:28
Speaker
That reminds me, like we we just ah we interviewed Kojo Beidou and young black man, young birder. And he was talking about how his parents aren't really into it. And I was saying, you know what they probably just care about is seeing you make an impact.
00:06:44
Speaker
And he's making this impact. And that's probably what your mom saw. And she's like, holy cow, my daughter is making an impact on these people. And listen to what they're saying about her. Look how inspired they are by my baby. And I guarantee that's what made her cry. That's exactly it. Because trust me, trust I made sure she knew the impact Karina had on me the first time I saw her on the screen and when I realized she was from Philly and when we got to Bird together. And that was Sam's event, right? Awesome.
00:07:17
Speaker
Wow. Shout out to Sam. Shout to Sam. Yeah, Sam Desjarnay out there at the Always Be Burden podcast. So go check that out, folks. Yeah, that was ah that was that was a great event. and I think we all went up to your mom and told her how much we appreciated you and how much pride we had in you being from Philly and and the way you kind of kicked the door open in 2020. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we got give you your flowers a little bit. I mean, I'm not trying to make you blush or anything. You're about to make me cry right now. sorry, but you need to know.
00:07:43
Speaker
It's real though. I always tell people you were like, you kind of gave me this proof of concept when I first started, when I didn't really know what I was necessarily doing. And you had shared one of my videos. You're like, this one of my favorite birders. And I was like,
00:07:58
Speaker
but I was like, wait a minute, what are you talking about, right? And I'm like, I don't even know if I had a thousand followers at that time. And I was like, this is amazing, right? Like, i was like, this is so cool. So like, I don't know. ive seen I've seen you do this with a lot of people and we appreciate you.
00:08:16
Speaker
You know, we appreciate the love that you share, using your platform for good. We're talking about that a little and we'll get into that, but you're always out there like showing people the homies, you know, like yeah I just love it. You know, like I'll see Al on your page all the time. Like I'm always seeing the homies and I'm like, I'm like, man, Karina gets it. You know, she just gets it. So. And I'm grateful for y'all. And I just, I'm grateful for for each of you because you bring something so refreshing yourselves.
00:08:45
Speaker
and and And Jason, you said something ah several years ago about like how birding has become part of your expression of blackness, right? Like it just was like, Versus this separate thing that you had to almost justify like yeah because of how would it what I think, what I what i thought of when I thought of birding. and you you really crystallized that for me. And then Dexter, like you, when I first saw your videos and just how untethered you were, like as far as could say untethered, that sounds bad. But like you didn't allow your joy to be held back. Like you were as excited as you were and you expressed it all. I'm like, that's in a black man. I was like, that's what i'm talking about. And then the third thing I want to say, I want to go back to Sam really quickly. So when my niece was on this very, the the bird walk that we were talking about, we were going around, I think saying our favorite birds. And Erin said, her, my niece, she was like, my favorite bird is the house sparrow. And Sam went up to her and was like, list you know, she was talking about how
00:09:37
Speaker
people uh say they don't like house sparrows and don't like starlings for example right and was explaining this and how they people have called them trash birds but she's like they're beautiful and i'm so glad you like them and she asked like why why do you why is a house sparrow your favorite and aaron said because they're the easiest to see and wow that and i feel like i'm gonna you know cry just even thinking about that but sam just aaron has asked about sam frequently since then like I remember when Sam, like remembers our name and everything. So I just, I'm grateful for Sam and I'm grateful for all of you for the ways you've poured into me and my family.
00:10:08
Speaker
always tell people don't be a joy jacker. That's something that i that I started saying that biggest week in burden. Jason was there. yeah And I'm like, because there are a lot of people that will well steal somebody's joy.
00:10:23
Speaker
And shout out to Sam for nurturing a person and really listening to them and understanding, like, this is important. right They're saying this is their favorite bird. The last thing you want to be is a joy jacker and say, but it's a house sparrow. They're awful. And there are people out there that do that stuff. they live Oh, that's just this.
00:10:41
Speaker
Or that's just that. I saw 20 of those last. Who cares? but like Nobody cares. shut up yeah Nobody cares. Like, let this person have their moment. And shout out to Sam, because people don't realize that that does mean something to especially young people. And the fact that this young person still remembers that, remembers Sam's name, that's impact. That's impact. So allow people to be joyful. Yeah, I think we got to, um, I think we got to first see if Sam is back from Asia. Cause I know she'd be spending time. know what? She texted me.
00:11:13
Speaker
didn't text her back. I think she is. Let me, you know what? I think we got to, I think we got talk to Sam Dex. I think, uh, I think she's been on an event this week too, but, um, I agree. That kind of validation in the moment is special.
00:11:26
Speaker
And to get it from people that look like us, I mean, I think that is what Black AF and STEM was going for. And they have certainly achieved that over six years now of Black Birders Week. And it's and it's absolutely tremendous. And i I wanted to kind of back up a little bit, Karina, if you don't mind, and and talk about some of
Seaside Sparrow Research and Findings
00:11:43
Speaker
your grad work. You focused on landscape ecology and bird conservation. And I'm What questions did you kind of hope to answer with that pathway? And like, was that your first choice in your grad work? Was that something that you got kind of got led to? Or like, talk us through how you ended up doing that kind of research.
00:11:59
Speaker
Yeah. So I kind of fell into it in some ways. There there is a ah website by the Wilson Ornithological Society that lists... graduate advisors who study ornithology. It's a very comprehensive list. We're very lucky and in the bird world to have that. So I just was scrolling and I found the school, Georgia Southern University, where professors studied what I wanted to study. And so I did all had i had to do. I rushed, took the GRE, did all this stuff and got in. But at the time that I was available to go to grad school, his lab was full.
00:12:27
Speaker
And then, so I had to wait a whole year. And then I got an email, Hey, we have a new professor. who's joining the university, she needs graduate students, would you be interested? So we had a conversation, she said, I study seaside sparrows.
00:12:38
Speaker
Never heard of a seaside sparrow in my life, because never been to like southeastern coast ever. Didn't even know Georgia had a coast when I south. And so I just kind of jumped into it. i had never been to a salt marsh, which is where the species lives. And came to find out. So when I first came down to meet Elizabeth Hunter, who is my advisor, such an incredible, incredible woman and advisor and teacher. And she took me out to the marsh just so I could know what I was getting myself into. Because I'm like, marsh, grass, you know you know, it seems like one of the easier ecosystems. When I tell you, she had me marching out there. This mud, you every single step you took, you were pulling your leg out of mud right? Mm-hmm.
00:13:18
Speaker
And within 15 minutes, I'm out of breath. I can't barely walk. And I'm i'm sitting here like I just upped my, you know I relocated myself. I left my job. I went to school and I don't even know if i can walk in this ecosystem. i she She saw the panic on my face. She said, Karina, it's OK. If you want to completely switch your project, you can. Right.
00:13:37
Speaker
And I said, no, I'm going to I'm going to do this. And so before I get into what I was studying, Before my first field season, Beyonce's Coachella performance aired on Netflix, I think, as it came out.
00:13:47
Speaker
I watched, because I didn't know how going through the I didn't know how I was going do I watched her Coachella performance. And in this kind of documentary, she was describing how she had just had these twins, how she was dealing with like all of this these physical health challenges, how she had to get into this regimen to even do Coachella right.
00:14:04
Speaker
Something about this documentary, I said, oh, I can do this field season. It was amazing. I'm trying to tell you, i can't i can't explain it, but had I not seen that, I don't know if I would have been able to do it. Whatever she, the way that she described how she pushed through, pushed me through.
00:14:17
Speaker
I made through that field season. So shout out to Beyonce for many reasons. Shout out. I love her, man. but um so for my research, so landscape ecology is essentially studying how features of landscapes, which vary depending on where you are, impact ecology, impact the way that organisms interact or are impacted by their surroundings, by their ecosystem. And so I was studying the seaside sparrow. And the the questions I was answering was related to their breeding success, their nesting success, I should say. And I wanted to understand if their proximity, their closeness to roadways or closeness to kind of some main water bodies impacted essentially their exposure to predators or the likelihood that they would get their nest get found and eaten by a predator. And that required a lot of remote sensing. So I had camera traps and video cameras out in the marsh that I would put out there. And then it really was like Christmas morning, going out, getting my Etsy cards back and then flipping through, you know, tens of thousands of pictures, right? and Very ruling. But when you find something, it's like, wow, I got to peel back the curtain on this ecosystem that you don't get to see unless you happen to be studying it. So I felt so lucky. And essentially, we found that these landscape features do impact nesting success in in certain ways. And the reason why we want to ask these kinds of questions for coastal birds is because sea level rise, climate change is going to be shrinking their available habitat. And once they kind of get past the threshold of habitat availability, of impairment, essentially, like how threatened they are by the changing climate, there are going to be some management practices that will have to change.
00:15:51
Speaker
And so understanding predation and the the patterns of it, depending on where birds are on the landscape will help wildlife managers, natural resource managers to be able to properly, for example, if if necessary, employ predator exclusion devices or like management techniques to protect from from predation. like employing new adaptive techniques. So essentially that was, that was the work. And in the middle of that though, I, on one, I got a camera, you know, I got an SD card back for one of the video cameras. And there was this one night where a nest that had ah an egg and a newly hatched chick that day,
00:16:22
Speaker
ah The nest had those two individuals in there. It was a super high tide. So tidal birds of any kind really are, and they have to deal with flooding twice a day. what mean? In the Atlantic coast. And this particular day, the tide was super high. It flooded the whole nest. The the baby and the egg were like floating on the top, um essentially of the water. And a fish jumped into the nest because of how high the water was and ate the chick, like ate parts of the chick, I should say. Killed chick. And it essentially revealed that flooding isn't itself a threat, right? It's they can drown, they they they can lose their ability to regulate the temperature and essentially, you know, die from that. But predators now can enter the nest because it's flooding. And so we published that paper. And that was just like, that wasn't even the focus of our research. But it's like, wow, the things you can uncover while you're looking for something else are just amazing. So that that's kind of captures what the research was looking like. That is incredible. I know. I'm just thinking from watching a Beyonce video to publishing papers. Shout out to the perseverance.
00:17:18
Speaker
You know what I'm saying? Shout out to perseverance. Look, I was going to say it. I was going to say philly don't Philly don't go out like that. So you had to you had to hype them boots up and get it going. I mean, we wasn't about to let you come back here talking about it. It was too deep in the swamp. You know, nah, man. You better get it.
00:17:34
Speaker
I know the crazy thing is, so in like any given graduate department, right? Peers will be like, hey, I'll help you collect research. You could collect data. You know, I'll go out field with you. And people would just do that just for fun or just to help out. And I would have people come to me and offer like, and it'd be dudes, right?
00:17:49
Speaker
Hey, yeah, yeah. You want me? i Can I go out in the field with you and just like go? And I'm sitting here like, they wouldn't believe me. I would say, i appreciate it, but I don't want to have to rescue you because I will probably have to, right? Like, it is not what you think. I'll be trying to tell people, it's not what you think, right? Tell me why. And I won't mention any names. So hopefully you'll hear this and won't think of yourself. But big old dude, football player, brolicky type dude. He insisted. He's like, I'll be fine. I'll be fine. And I'm thinking you're big.
00:18:16
Speaker
Like you don't sink. i Right. that's out there Yeah. Took him out there. Why? Within an hour. He was i thought he was going to pass out because there's also no shade, no trees. You're out in the grass. And it's coastal Georgia in the summer. Dude was, I'm talking about, I thought I was going to have to call EMS.
00:18:36
Speaker
I'm way ahead of him in the marsh and I just see him sinking, falling, right? And then eventually he just goes back to the car. We're so far apart and I like, thank you. know Thank you.
00:18:52
Speaker
he should have gone back home and watched that Coachella concert. That's what he should have done. He's doing his life together. Oh, man.
00:19:00
Speaker
may And I hate to look, I appreciate Right. I appreciate it. But it's just hard to, you know, until you go out there, you don't really know. You're not about that life, bro. You ain't about this life, bro. You ain't about this life. Hey, sticking with your work. This is the Bird Joy podcast. I'm crying laughing right now. Your work lives at this intersection of conservation and also justice. What's that connection? Why is that so personal and essential to the work that
Conservation and Justice Integration
00:19:30
Speaker
you do? I think it it feels personal because my educational experience from high school, college, grad school, never included any element that had anything to do with people or people's realities. And certainly not the realities of like black people, poor people, people who are in any way in the margins of society. And it wasn't until I was in grad school, like obviously understood injustice, right? But I never made the connection between, i don't know, like in environment or conservation and injustice or conservation and justice.
00:20:00
Speaker
Until I was in graduate school and got connected with great people like Deja Perkins. She was one of the first yeah researchers who I learned from, like how these things are connected, because she studies the relationship between like race and and income and participatory science data, which is a huge issue.
00:20:17
Speaker
um source of data about biodiversity for conservation and policy. Her research kind of showed, you know, that there's a relationship between race and income and where there is data. And she has since graduated with her master's and her PhD. She's now Dr. Daisy Perkins. So excuse me, put some respect on her name. That was the first time I had heard that. And so since then, i have made a lot of connections. I've drawn a lot of connections between my personal experience, the experience of my family and friends in different parts of the country, like the injustices they experience.
00:20:46
Speaker
um that they're dealing with and how conservation has either contributed to the problem or could, if if you were intentional about it, contribute to the solution. um And so my work since graduate school has been trying to find ways, like, how can we ensure that the resources that exist in the realm of conservation, whether it's technical expertise or funding or policy, how can we make sure that the solutions we're trying to generate in those realms also in advance environmental justice and in fact are just part of it. like It's not just like a there's this and that. it's These are the same driven, the issues we're dealing with are driven by the same thing. But if you try to solve the problem without thinking about people, you're going to create a bigger problem. And so I just, that's kind of where it came from. And it it became very personal, especially as I've gotten connected with more experts who think about this, not just people in academia, just people who are paying attention and have some wisdom. And a lot of my elders and my community and elders in other communities, especially here in Georgia, like I've had the prove honor of meeting several like Gullah Geechee elders here who have just painted the picture so clearly for like how conservation issues are environmental justice issues or justice issues.
00:21:54
Speaker
I love it. It's so inspiring to watch you use your platform and to make those connections for people. So shout out to you. the Shout out to folks who have dedicated their lives, man. Yeah. Yeah. We've been doing this for a while, right? Right. Our elders and a lot of people don't realize like we've been doing this stuff. We've been having connections to the land and understanding the importance of that of that connection. So yeah. Shout out to the elders. Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:23
Speaker
And i you know I wonder, you know, considering that connection and then considering Blackbirders Week highlighting these gaps in representation and conservation work, right representation and environmental justice work. You know, we have organizations popping up all over to try and meet that gap. Right. And fill that space. You know, organizations like Field Inclusive. I wonder with those organizations popping up and being very successful, are they are they showing you something, Karina? Have you seen a shift in conservation work regarding centering equity for voices in the black, indigenous and and communities of color or or not? Are you not seeing enough? Yeah, so I would say there was clearly definitely a period of time, right, where I saw that. There were organizations, including National Wildlife Federation, that's actually how I came, where I work now, that's how I came to even know about them because they were very explicit and in their, where their money was going, dedicating a lot of resources to this. But yeah, like since Black Birders Week, I've seen so many of these programs or positions or new granting opportunities come online that would kind of reflect organizations commitment to it.
00:23:28
Speaker
But what we're seeing now is that, you know, who's really about it and who's not. Yeah. One of the things that have been frustrating about what we've been seeing happen and experiencing happen since January, what was that, 20th or something? I don't know, you know, when we got the clown back in office, but we like the people whose first priority is their power.
00:23:47
Speaker
And I don't mean use catchphrases, but literally like organizations whose leadership, for example, have a lot of close personal connections inside the beltway, like in D.C. Like they have relationships that they don't want to risk because they want to be as close to power as possible and they want to be able to advance their agendas. Right. so they're thinking, well, we'll sacrifice the efforts and resources that we dedicate to black and brown people for my long-term game, right? that That's just, and so many organizations have done that. And it's been, it's not been surprising, but it's been like, dear are y'all embarrassed? Can you at least be embarrassed? oh like but Like, just be embarrassed, be ashamed a little bit.
00:24:24
Speaker
i don't, you know what i mean? And so it's the the equity and the justice thing, you know, priorities are for moments like this. That's why we do this. And so the fact that so many have dropped out or tried to rebrand their efforts has, are demonstrations that they were never about equity or justice. And so, yeah Yeah. Like I think the ones that have stuck it out and continue to walk the walk, it there's thiss ebbs and flows, ups and downs, depending on the pressure.
00:24:48
Speaker
And we're in the pressure. A lot of performative folks out there. Yes. Yeah. yeah where was just It was just a slow show. Yeah. and And part of that is, you know, just talking about some other nonprofits that I that i talk to, right? It's like those conversations the board that the board has, right? Those are real conversations of like, what keywords are they looking for in grant applications that we rely on? You know, like, and and it's It's interesting to hear people's opinions on just what you said, Karina, like sacrificing our morals to maintain power or funding based off of federal dollars because of this. And it's just I don't think many organizations realize that people notice, you know, yeah and that's going to have a longer term impact than.
00:25:29
Speaker
Then maybe some of the sacrifices you have to make over the next four years, you know, so it's tough. It's tough. And I and I think I think people should use this moment as ah as a learning moment, too. Right. Because we got to be in it for the next four years either of the way. Right. And um for the next time, because this won't be the last time either that someone comes for. our communities, whether it's in nature or outside of nature. Right. And today is the infamous anniversary of George Floyd's death. and i And I'm already seeing clown behavior out there. Right. Showing that we haven't really moved as far as we thought we have. Right. So this is this a good reminder to folks like this is your opportunity to be on the right side of history. So yeah. Facts. Facts.
00:26:03
Speaker
back But can I say one more thing, though? Of course. One things that i think this is forcing us, like folks like us, to do. So like when Lauren created her, Lauren and Murray created their nonprofit and when other organiz people, young folks, black and brown folks have created these organizations, it's this political context that we're in and financial, et cetera, context forces us to create networks of resources. Yeah. that are not directly tied or so or so impacted by federal fluctuations and you know political fluctuations. And we've always needed that. Like the conservation movement, the environmental justice movement needs to be a network of locally connected resources so that we can survive and we can work. And we're having to do that now because there's really no other options. you know But like we have to maintain we have to maintain this work to connect ourselves to one another and put our resources together and mutual aid. yeah i mean like That's become a more widely understood concept. And I think that you can scale mutual aid up in many ways, even whether it's favorable or not, keep our local connections strong. And so i'm I'm very grateful for organizations like Field Inclusive that have really been doing that kind of
00:27:07
Speaker
Network up. The people that are collaborating are winning yeah and will continue to win. So we got to collaborate more. We got to have each other's backs. And then the people that are going to reach out to folks like us that are actually doing the work. Like we see what you did, man I ain't trying to work with you. Exactly. Exactly.
00:27:24
Speaker
ah yeah mean Go dance over there for somebody else. You know, and I don't got time for that. We definitely see the people that ah that truly care about the cause and want to help move things forward. and we also see the people that are are doing what you said, Karina, just worried about their own careers and power and and placating to to some really, I mean, for a lack of a better term, evil stuff that is kind of spreading across our country. It's so sad because they come at us first. They're attacking not only like, you know, our organizations and grant fundings and people that that support our organizations, but they're literally attacking environmental justice as a whole and really trying to just everything that we've worked for and a lot of the people that we all we we all care about that are doing the work, they're coming for some of the, you know, they're coming for our people. And it it just, it don't feel good. i would say that. It don't feel good to see that. So, whew.
00:28:21
Speaker
Shifting gears a little bit. Are there any birds or ecosystems or research questions that are currently kind of fueling your curiosity or lighting a fire on you right now?
00:28:31
Speaker
Yes. Yes, for sure. So what I would say is so because I would now work at the intersection of of science and policy, I've never worked in policy ever. Science policy and and and management, I'll say it has exposed me to where inequities, i guess, manifest.
00:28:48
Speaker
social inequities that that real yield realities like what Dr. Deja Perkins has uncovered about like where the data is and where it isn't. I've seen how that then impacts conservation decisions. And I remember being on calls, more than one, many, several calls where I'm i'm hearing from like federal agencies about, hey, here's our new prioritization tool to help you state agencies or whomever prioritize where you do conservation. And it's based on data, especially participatory science data. And I'm seeing our communities get passed over for conservation investment, essentially, based on these prioritization tools, because there's not data there, not because there's not birds or wildlife, but because there's not new information.
00:29:26
Speaker
And Atlanta, Georgia and Atlanta in particular, are such a great example of this for me, because Atlanta is, we call ourselves a city in the trees. It is one of the most forested cities in the country. And the biodiversity in like the predominantly black parts of Atlanta, like Southwest Atlanta, SWAT, shout out, but like is crazy, right? And I lived in Southwest Atlanta for a while. i live in West Atlanta now.
00:29:49
Speaker
And so I knew just from living there that the bird diversity is popping out this world, like incredible. If you were to look at the eBird map, you would assume there was nothing there and that all the birds were in Buckhead in the rich, wealthy, white parts of Atlanta.
00:30:04
Speaker
And so I always, whenever I see a new prioritization tool come online, I zoom in to Atlanta and I look at Southwest Atlanta to see how it ranks. And it ranks, it consistently ranks low. And I'm like, excuse me, this is one of the most biodiverse urban places in the country.
00:30:22
Speaker
And certainly relative to the state of Georgia, I know for a fact, because I just happen to be a scientist who lives in these places, this is inaccurate and it's going to make you pass over our communities and over our cities. And so- The thing that I'm passionate about, Dexter, to your question is the models and the tools that we use to understand the distribution of biodiversity, the distribution of birds, for example, bird diversity, bird populations. They're informed by skewed data. They're informed by biased data.
00:30:49
Speaker
I want to know how can we rerun essentially these models, such as like habitat suitability models, right? So that we have an accurate understanding of where biodiversity is distributed, where it could be distributed. So our models can reflect reality. Otherwise we're going to be compounding injustices and compounding disinvestment our communities, ecologically, environmentally. I'm really interested answering those questions and and i trying to be able to get work funded to do that. And Deja Perkins is, I keep bringing her up because she's like always front of mind when it comes to this stuff. Like she, Her LLC focuses on filling data gaps and through community organizing, through through working with communities, and they are collecting the data, not some some white folks parachuting in to fill the data gaps because they heard there's a data gap problem. Right. So that that's kind of what's front of mind for me. I love that you're bringing up Deja. Today is the first day of Black Birders Week, right, Jason? I mean, it's right its right the why not talk about one of the co-founders of that movement and the amazing, amazing work that she's doing?
Black Birders Week Impact and Personal Reflections
00:31:48
Speaker
So shout out to Dr. Perkins.
00:31:49
Speaker
Shout out. Yeah, absolutely. and And I wonder going back, you know, Karina, you were one of the co-organizers, I believe, of the first one. And what was that like? Like, what was it like being in the room, being on the chat, being in the Zoom with the homies trying to figure out what are we going to do?
00:32:06
Speaker
Like, can you can you walk us through what that was like? And I know it was a charged time, right? That was the spring, summer 2020. hmm. Yeah, I feel like it was it felt surreal because it was there were a lot of people, you know, probably 30 something people who were actively all of us putting our heads together about what could we do? What can we organize? It was surprisingly a very organized process. Like it didn't feel chaotic because if I were to outside of that situation, imagine 30 people in a communicating virtually.
00:32:35
Speaker
trying to put on in 48 hours, a week's worth of ah of programming in a way that is like engaging, right? I would have imagined that being a very hectic process. And it wasn and in in many ways, it I won't say it was hectic, but it was it was very organized, but it did, you know, it it created rubs and tensions, um community organizing, whether it's in person for like a living community or it's virtual like that.
00:32:55
Speaker
It comes with, it's a lot of interpersonal rubs that happen, right? But the thing that was created was so beautiful And to me, just, I was shocked that something like that could have been created so quickly and with so many great minds, obviously and in in the room. And i remember my adrenaline was so high from like how much we were just doing and and thinking and producing that like, I i wasn't really sleeping. i remember I was like out in the field on these organizing calls. like i was literally in the marsh, sweating into my phone. Like, you know what mean? Blood all up in my speaker, literally, no, literally. Yeah.
00:33:29
Speaker
Wow. Wow. And but the the great thing that that did for me personally was it showed me that people can organize and people can organize fast. And it has since empowered me as a professional in my job or as a member of my community here in Atlanta or in any any any place.
00:33:46
Speaker
where I'm part of ah of a community of people, my expectations are way higher of what people who are passionate and care about something can accomplish when they're fighting for justice. And so I have changed the way I operate and what my expectations are. And I changed the expectations I have of other people. Like, yes, we can do this.
00:34:00
Speaker
It might seem like, you know, this, we don't have enough time or we don't have enough this or that or resources. Yes, we can. We still can. Blackbirders Week taught me that. I'm so grateful to have been able to be among those folks organizing that first one. And especially because of how much I learned. Love it. What's been one of your favorite Black Birders Week memories?
00:34:18
Speaker
I think for me, it was, and I met Dudley Edmondson. That was the first time that I had, i think, heard of him and interacted with him and like during Black Birders Week. And I remember, I believe he posted like a ah either Facebook or Twitter or something, post that said in all the 30 or 40 years that he had been birding, he had never seen this many. He didn't even know. like After decades, he didn't see or know. Wow. that this existed. And i i I related to that because granted, while the time of birding was much shorter for me, I also, like, i remember when I saw my first black person liked birds on Twitter and I was like, I freaked out. I was in grad school, I'm like DMing him like, wait, wait, so so you're a birder? Like, you like, like it was, it wasn't computing for me. Cause again,
00:35:02
Speaker
At the time, I i thought that like birding was, i was doing that almost separate from being a black person. And the people I was meeting were black and be black and they loved birds. And I said, oh, okay, this is is different than I thought. And so for me, when I saw Dudley say that and that hit is his experience had been what mine was for maybe a couple of years, for 30 something years, I remember crying when I seen that because that moved me so much. And I was just so grateful that he and all of us were able to now have this community that was not visible. Because we we're physically separated, you know, we didn't see each other out here. It's down to the OG, man. You know, he's going to be on the podcast next week. That's right. That's right. It's cool you bring him up because he hell he literally will be the guest next week. I love this. That is fantastic. You know what's crazy too?
00:35:53
Speaker
Like 20 years from now, there's going to be black folks that when you ask them, do they know any other black birders, they are going to have plenty of answers. And like that part makes me so happy. Like even in Madison, Wisconsin or Atlanta or Philly or Chicago or Detroit, l LA, San Diego, like I know of groups everywhere now. And that is no longer going to be a standard thing that we are the exception to the rule.
00:36:22
Speaker
Right. We have kind of created our own rule. So like that, i just want to bring that full circle because I think, again, shout out to Black AF and STEM because they literally have changed that dynamic. Like people will have different answers now. They shifted the timeline, you know, so like that part. I really, I really, really love it. I love it. Yes.
00:36:40
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I and I, you know, looking at that growth and impact, what do you see happening next for Black Birders Week? Right. What do you hope it continues to do in our communities and even beyond our communities? I mean, my my hope is that more because Black Birders Week is a nationwide international thing. Right. It encourages people from anywhere geographically to participate. My hope is that people will tap in and build their community where they are during BlackBirders Week and and and beyond. That BlackBirders Week will be a springboard for people to be closer with their neighbors and and closer with their their communities intergenerationally. than they were before because of birding, because of Black Birders Week. And so my, yeah, my hope is that just, it brings people together, brings more communities together. um And then I, one thing that I also hope for is it creates opportunities for young leaders to learn that they can lead. One of the things about birding is that birding can be a leadership opportunity. Like people who are knowledgeable lead birding trips, right? Lead bird walks, you know, whatever it is. And it's,
00:37:39
Speaker
doable by anyone, like anyone can do that. and And I think that birding creates an opportunity for young people to develop leadership skills that is so unique, because it's so infused with joy. And it's so it can be so natural, like if you love birds, right. And so I hope a lot more young people stand up as leaders and and and and use the joy they have about birds to, like I said before, also bring people together, bring people along. You know what? So I love that you say that because Saturday we're hosting our Black Birders Week event at our local zoo.
00:38:07
Speaker
And one of our group leaders is a 12 year old black boy named roman yeah but right like roman Roman. Roman's been coming to us since we started the club and we've got to see him grow and grow and grow. And he's a leader. yeah It's that, you know, people always say, oh, if you can see it, you can be it. I like that.
00:38:24
Speaker
But if you can see it, you can be it. And now do it. Right. That is next level, right? To where now, not only does he see people like myself, people that look like him leading, but now he can see himself as a leader at a young age. And and now he knows that ornithology is for him. He literally knows. Like he said that he knew at age two he wanted to study birds like that. This is how OG Roman is. And he shows up to our he shows up to our walks with like a pen and pad. He don't have no phone. He's not playing. He's not playing.
00:38:58
Speaker
He really about that life. Like Roman, this is crazy. This little dude, he came to his first boardwalk to one of our first events and he had a list of 20 warblers that he wanted to see that day. It was spring migration and he was not playing no games. We got 24 that day.
00:39:14
Speaker
Oh, yeah. There you go. 24 species of of warblers that day. So he got four bonus warblers. But like he was he literally makes little notes and he he writes down things about behaviors and like wow this little dude, he gives me so much life. Like. Every single time I see him, I hug him really tight. His little sister Willa as well. And I see these these young black babies, these black and brown kids growing into this, into an environment where they feel welcome, where they understand that, yes, like I love birds and like, it's okay.
00:39:46
Speaker
You know, like, it's OK. Like, look, I got somebody that looks like me, that's supporting me, that that tells me that I'm amazing and, you know, and supports it. He led one two years ago as well when he was only 10, but he's now going to lead it again. So he continuing to grow and shout out to that leadership component is big. And shout out to y'all for trusting young people. than i And I hope more people will do like y'all and trust young people and encourage young people to lead because they do need that for like they they need that from us. We have to get in that space.
00:40:16
Speaker
So shout out to y'all. He brings a whole different energy, right? like and And I think that's what's important. And a lot of the traditional spaces, they they define these roles and like what a birder is supposed to look like and how you operate and all that. And then like, I never felt like I fit in. Like I was like, this awesome. You talked about untethered. I'm like, ah!
00:40:37
Speaker
Like, I'm up in this place. Like, these people want me to be quiet the whole time. I'm just saw five birds I've never seen in my life, but I want to scream. Like, you know, like, I'm so excited right now. And I'm like, looking at everybody like, nah, bruh. This ain't it, you know? This ain't it. This ain't it. Time to create a new space where we can be ourselves. Let me sing. Yeah, they sing and they don't care. You know, it so fun because always tell people, I'm like, man, I get excited and I see more birds than you. The science does not back up your assumptions. Wait, that's, that's cool right there. I'm just like, hey, you know, well, we go. Can we talk about that for a little bit? Let's talk about this. Right. Let's talk about this.
00:41:21
Speaker
Let me see your list, bro. You know what I'm saying? Because mine's probably a lot bigger. But yeah, it's so funny. Speaking of young people, you are a new mom.
00:41:32
Speaker
Huge congratulations to that. How has that experience changed how you connect with nature and think about your work?
Motherhood and Renewed Passion for Nature
00:41:40
Speaker
Oh, man. So I, um, I don't, call I wouldn't call myself a kid person, right? Like generally, like a chit.
00:41:47
Speaker
I'm not someone who don't put me with a bunch of kids. just okay Right. I don't know what I'm doing really. Kids as far as emotions are tough. So when I had ah a child, I was like, Oh shoot. Like I'm, I'm not the kid person. Like, what am I going to do? It was a whole bunch of fear going into it. I'll be honest, a whole bunch of fear.
00:42:05
Speaker
Sure. Sure. But then once he got here, and of course you get past that, some people call it the hundred days of hell at the beginning. This is not to put fear in anybody's heart, but it's hard. It's hard. Those first set of weeks and months, once he kind of really kind of got a person, not got a personality, but his personality was coming out and he was, he could see, you know what mean? They developed his eyes and ears were working and everything. It was like my, I was already excited about nature. Like you give me good, a good caterpillar, a good leaf, right? A good, bird like I'm on top of the world when he starts noticing things I'm seeing it for the first time it's like that's what it's like it's like I'm living vicariously through his first time and so now what I thought was peak excitement for me It's like, man, like every little thing is so cool. And I, when I see him smile or get excited about a bird, right? Right now we actually have Carolina wrens nesting on our, our fortune. Wendell, my husband, he, you know, he's into nature now. He, he, he, he messes with birds. You got him. But the wrens are making a mess. They're dropping sticks and everything. And he's like, man, can't this thing, like their house looks so ugly. Like can't they just clean it
00:43:16
Speaker
So we got that in the background. It's fine. But Malcolm, right, he's like, every time the bird flies past the window to go up to the nest, he's like, you know what I mean? And he's like, just seeing his shock and excitement about this stuff just makes it all, it's like, I'm going in for the first time again now.
00:43:36
Speaker
and so I'm so grateful for that. And I think that's been one of the most beautiful things about being a new mom is that you are seeing things again that maybe you've seen it become regular to me are now so new and so exciting. That's awesome. Any new ah bird pajamas for the little homie?
00:43:51
Speaker
yeah So, you know, don't like something. Don't be passionate about something because every single gift you will get for your child will be that. Everybody. want talking about when I like was in the baby shower.
00:44:03
Speaker
Every gift, every book, every book, every And I'm not mad. I'm not mad at it. But when tell you everything is birds. um Let's go. He ain't have no choice but to be amazed by birds. So, yeah, he's got his birds and wildlife pajamas and books. And he learned his colors by looking at birds like that. that's yeah Birds are the vehicle through which he's learning a lot of things. So, yeah.
00:44:27
Speaker
Yeah. It's bird. That's so awesome. That's incredible. That's incredible. and it And it's the same thing, like whether it's our own children or our own families, you know, little nieces and nephews and otherwise, or Roman or homies, you know, families coming out. We had a somebody yesterday at our Boba Link outing.
00:44:47
Speaker
a young man that I have a a recording of him seeing the bobbling for the first time on the fence. And I hear him like the cameras on the bobbling, but you can hear him in the back. I'm like, Oh, I see it. I see it. It's right there on the fence. You can hear his dad and his mom encouraging him. And it's just like, it's the same thing. It's this like, like watching someone else experienced bird joy for the first time is that's the juice, man. That's it. You know? So I, And I wonder, like, have you been getting out? Have you had a bird that's like blowing your mind recently or like a bird experience, even if it's a bird that you've seen often, but you saw a different behavior or something like how has that been going? Are you still getting are the birds still filling you up down there in Atlanta?
00:45:26
Speaker
they Yes, they are. And I won't I'm not going lie to you. It has been difficult to get out as frequently as I did before. Understood. Understood. And it has lot to do with work, but work plus a kid does does make it hard sometimes. But on, when was this?
00:45:39
Speaker
Saturday, yesterday, me and Corvita Raven, who leads an organization called The Streets is calling, if y'all don't follow her, follow her. Lit. yeah Dope, dope, dope. Anyway, I was co-leading a bird walk with her in Washington Park, which is a historically black park, first park in Georgia where black people could recreate, right? So I i have i have worked with someone named Miss Christy Jackson, who leads the conservancy for that park and does I mean, she's feeding everybody. She's giving people free shots for their pets. She's she's the person out there, right? She's blood, sweat, and tears in that park, right?
00:46:10
Speaker
And we have, like, I've i've worked with her to leave bird walks in the park, and yesterday, she got stuff to do. So sometimes she can't come to the to the bird walks, and yesterday, she just came to drop something off for me, and she was going to go home after that, because she just had stuff to do. Tell me why a juvenile red-tailed hawk flies at head level through the trees and lands right right next to us, right?
00:46:30
Speaker
She's like, oh, we're all freaking out, right? She got her She was like, I'm supposed to be going home. I'm supposed to be going home, right? doesn't stop there. The bird then flies even closer, lands on this sunny branch and starts sunbathing. She, we all lost it. She said, oh, I guess I'm staying on the, she said, I guess I'm attending.
00:46:51
Speaker
We stayed out there looking at that hawk for like 30 minutes. The hawk was preening, there was feathers flying off of it as it was preening into like the sunlight and the wind. It just was such a beautiful experience. That's incredible. And what I've come to appreciate, I've already appreciated this, but for me, it's not like the number of birds that I can see. but when I'm able to watch a bird for that long,
00:47:10
Speaker
That's what feels like the bread and butter for me. that That's where I feel so much. when I get to just watch it for a while. Juvenile Hawks, especially Red Tail Hawks, they can they they are interesting. They're not as if you drive up under them, run up under them. They don't care. They'll go down the ground, play with sticks. Right. They're chi they're they're they're doing their thing. but I would say funny thing to happen. Right. So when people would drive up because there was like a ah softball. game going on behind us, right?
00:47:34
Speaker
People would drive up. I'd be like, yo, there's a hawk. Look, there's a hawk, right? And people were generally like, oh, wow. This one dude is like, dude, he parked his car right below where the hawk was. He didn't see it. Him and his wife get out. And I go, sir, look, there's a hawk.
00:47:48
Speaker
He thought I was, he goes, oh, all right. Tell his wife to get back in the car. gets back in the car and draws. And I'm sitting there like, wait, he thought I was warning him. He thought I was like, there's a hawk. Get out of here.
00:48:02
Speaker
um So it's really for me, like opportunities to get in the in my communities, the communities near me, my own, the ones near me and just be in that joy together. And Miss Christie, like she, yeah, like she, she just, she loves the wildlife and she tries to connect the rest of the community with the wildlife. And we walked over to the softball game um and it's, it's been black softball leagues there for a hundred years, literally. They've been playing in this field and they saw us birding, right? This, this aunt comes over. He's like, Oh, I'm talking about clean. I'm talking about clean up, right? So you got the, like the big clean.
00:48:37
Speaker
He's like, um excuse me, excuse me. So we go around the street to him. He's like, ah I got some hummingbirds in my yard. i don't have as many this year as I had last year. do you think that is? there anything I can do to like encourage more hummingbirds to come to mind?
00:48:49
Speaker
And so it's like five of us black women. It's all black women, you know, situation. And we're all giving him different tips, you know, ideas. Yeah. And he was just so excited. He was like, thank y'all. Thank y'all. Like he just was so excited. And it's just so when we can just be outside with each other.
00:49:05
Speaker
yeah our community Whatever we're doing. If it's a barbecue, if it's um a sports game, it's whatever, right? Birds are everywhere and we can enjoy them anywhere. That is fantastic. That is so dope. Karina, you've done a lot. You've accomplished a lot in your in your career.
00:49:23
Speaker
What's next? Are there any upcoming projects, ideas, dreams you're excited to chase?
Future Aspirations in Conservation
00:49:28
Speaker
That's a hard question for me. I'm going to be honest. It's like right now I feel like I'm in survival mode with this administration. I feel like my creativity is a little stifled. Like I feel like I'm constantly just trying to understand what's going on and like be aware. And so it's been hard for me to dream and and think about my future. What I will say is that I do want to go back to school. Like I want to go back to school. I want to be able to have the freedom of creative thinking and asking questions and like doing research. I want to do that at some point in my future.
00:49:55
Speaker
I want to work more with municipalities and state agencies. So state wildlife agencies, they're tasked with stewarding biodiversity of the state. But unfortunately, they've really been like an old boys club. Like they they really don't.
00:50:07
Speaker
They haven't messed with black people like that. Cities, right? Like they're just... The demographic they serve has never included any community I've been in. And so I've been trying to, in my job, work with state agencies to like get to like it through different various ways. like How can you prioritize Black and brown communities and urban communities more?
00:50:25
Speaker
And I've been doing that in my community and with the state agency here in Georgia. And the opportunities that have unfolded because I live here and the work that I've been able to do on an interpersonal level, like with the people I live with and then the state agency and the city, like have given me ideas for what might be possible in other states.
00:50:40
Speaker
how other states can collaborate with their cities and with other, you know, diverse communities. and And so when I have, when I can come up for air a little bit, I think I want to think more creatively about that. yeah I would say right now, I'm honestly just trying to get through and yeah um sure doing what I can to like be in, in coalition and be with people who are as motivated as I am, as i want to say angry, but as, as yeah, as motivated, as driven to like solve some of these issues as I am more passionate, justice minded. And that's where I get my life right now.
00:51:10
Speaker
think that's what my answer is. It's a lot of people feeling like you right now. It really is. Like, I hear that from a lot of folks. And I think ah where folks are finding a respite is in that community that you talk about trying to be around people that that are driven and and passionate about this stuff. So continue to seek those ah those spaces so you can at least charge up the battery a little bit to keep pushing through as we as we try to get through this, because it is real. What we're going through is real. so Thank you, Dexter. Yeah.
00:51:39
Speaker
And so, Karina, thank you for for being with us. ah And we have, ah you know, we were in our third season here and growing our our audience. Our homies are out there is there. Is there anything in particular, if you had to say one thing to our audience, any piece of advice ah to give them moving forward, whether it's for this year or for this next four years, what would you say?
00:51:59
Speaker
I would say that endurance is really important to think about endurance, longevity, and it can feel very tempting to give everything every time something crosses your desk or crosses your screen emotionally, mentally, to give everything to that thing, right? And it is important to take action. And when there's gross injustices going on, like what's happening in Gaza or what's going on in Memphis or whatever, right? Like to to act, right? But I think one of the great things about being in a community of activists or a community of organizers is that you can, I saw someone, I can't remember who posted this or who shared this, but like you can rotate vigilance.
00:52:35
Speaker
So you don't always have to be the one that's on. Like if you're in a community of people, you can pass the the responsibility of watching and reacting to someone else and you can take a breath and then they can pass it to you and they can take a breath. Right. like You can you can have this not so you can you're not constantly on all the time. Yeah. And yeah that's and I one of the things when I saw that post from it was a black it was a group, a black led group that does like community organizing. Again, I can't remember the name, but the first thing I thought of was that that's biomimicry. i was thinking about meerkats because I used to work in zooms. I see meerkats a lot. And that's what meerkats do. Like they they rotate. Centering. Exactly. they One meerkat will be up and looking around, but it's not always them. It's ah then it's somebody else and they can go about their business, get some food, get some water, or whatever. And like, that's how their group is able to kind of sustain through constant onslaught of predation, constant threat of predation, constant threat of, you know what i mean? Harm. So that's what I would say. Like, make sure don't try to do activism on your own. make be Be with other people who care as as you do.
00:53:32
Speaker
Got to protect your peace. That's a great way to do it. and You know, to to be able to to breathe sometimes is really important. All right. Before we let you go, it's time. We're going to do something a little new with you today. And i was like, we got Karina on. We got to do something little different. It's time for a little rapid fire. All right. So just say the first thing that comes to your mind when we ask you these questions. All right. Okay.
00:53:57
Speaker
Are you ready? I'm ready. Let's go. All right. All right. One bird you still haven't seen, but you need to. American Abyssal. Oh, OK. OK. Favorite bird call or song? Woodthrush.
00:54:13
Speaker
Oh, that's a gangster one too. Favorite nature sound that's not a bird? o Spring peepers. That's a good one. That's a good What's the one thing you always have in your field bag?
00:54:25
Speaker
It used to be a machete, but then TSA took that. Can't on these streets like that. I didn't even know I had it in my bag. I went through TSA Atlanta. Usually everyone had anything to do. They seen that knife, they said, oh, this is insane. no.
00:54:45
Speaker
um shot out What's best burning snack or your field work fuel? The the Chester's hot fries.
00:54:55
Speaker
Tremendous too with a nice cold sweet iced tea. That would be great. Your dream field work location. o Honestly, I want to go back to the coast. can't believe I'm saying that because it messed up my hip flexors, but I want to go back to the coast. Go with what you know, let's do it.
00:55:14
Speaker
it's a non What's a non-science hobby or a joy that you have that might surprise people? I play piano, I've played since i was four. I love playing piano. That's probably so dope too.
00:55:26
Speaker
Awesome. All right. Last one. A bird you think deserves way more love. oh All sparrows. I think I'm to say all sparrows. And when I saw the theme of Black Birders this year, I was so excited because I was like, finally, people give sparrows the airtime they deserve and the appreciation they deserve. They're fascinating. They're beautiful. And every, and I don't say every, definitely not every, there have been many white folks who call them, what they call them? They call them something. It's some sort of acronym. Little brown birds. Yeah. And I'm like, are you, excuse me? Yeah.
00:55:54
Speaker
They all have an identity. They're all different. Like, let's appreciate their difference, their uniqueness. Right. So when I saw Black Burgers Week's theme, I was like, this is exactly, exactly. Yes. So Sparrow all around. Perfect. Karina, thank you so much for sharing your time, your energy and your joy with us today. Where can folks follow your work and stay connected to what you got going on? Thank y'all so much for having me. Again, so honored.
00:56:19
Speaker
I've been more on LinkedIn these days. If you're in a professional sphere and want to connect there, lots of job postings. I'll say that. But Instagram is probably most active these days on non-professional social media. So hood underscore underscore naturalist on Instagram. That's awesome. Awesome. Thanks again, Karina. Having you on the show has been an absolute joy. And just like I can't think of a better way to start Black Brothers. I'm editing this today. I'm so fired up. this This got me so excited. Yeah, this this has been fantastic. Thank you so much.
00:56:55
Speaker
Thank you. This is what I needed to power me through the next several weeks and months. So thank you for inviting me and for taking the time. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. Peace.