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The Joy of Vultures with Kojo Baidoo
796 Plays5 days ago
In this episode, Dexter and Jason sit down with Kojo Baidoo — a 23-year-old birder, Princeton graduate, and self-proclaimed vulture enthusiast — to explore how one young conservationist is flipping the script on one of the most misunderstood birds in the skies.
Kojo shares how his birding journey began in Maryland and took flight during his time studying Ecology & Evolutionary Biology at Princeton. He opens up about his experiences navigating the birding world as a young Black birder, the mentors who shaped him, and how he’s using social media to educate and inspire. From viral reels to fieldwork with The Nature Conservancy, Kojo’s mission is clear: even the “ugly” birds deserve joy.
The conversation also touches on Kojo’s recent trip to witness the Sandhill Crane migration, his current work as a Hubbard Fellow, and advice for aspiring birders who feel like outsiders in the outdoor space. Kojo’s blend of humor, heart, and scientific insight makes this episode a powerful reminder that birding can be a tool for joy, community, and change.
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Instagram: @kojobirder
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Transcript
Season Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
You're tuned in to season three of the Bird Joy podcast hosted by Dexter Patterson and Jason Hall. This podcast is for all the homies across the globe, a place to celebrate birds, community, and joy together.
00:00:15
Speaker
We're back with more stories from the birding world, more voices doing dope work in STEM, and more reasons to get outside and enjoy the birds. Are you ready for some bird joy? Let's go. What's up, Bird Joy Podcast family? We have a real treat for you
Guest Introduction: Kojo Beidou
00:00:33
Speaker
all today. Our guest is one of the freshest new voices in birding, and he's got his eyes on the skies for a species that most people overlook and some people avoid.
00:00:45
Speaker
That's right. Today we're joined by Kojo Beidou, 23-year-old birder from Maryland who's flipping the script on one of the most misunderstood birds out there, our homies, the vultures.
00:00:57
Speaker
Yes, a certified vulture enthusiast. Yes, you heard that right, folks. He's out here fighting the back against all the bad PR, one Instagram reel at a time.
00:01:08
Speaker
Kojo is a recent graduate of Princeton University where he earned his degree in ecology and evolutionary biology. He's currently a Hubbard fellow with the Nature Conservancy and trust and trust us, he's just getting started. That's right. Now, let's talk about vultures, content creation, and the power of loving what the world calls ugly. Kojo, welcome to the Bird Joy Podcast.
00:01:32
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you, guys. I'm so happy to be here. and Thank you for that intro. That was really nice. Yeah. Thank you, guys. ah Hey, you said before we jumped on, you said this is your first podcast interview. Yeah.
00:01:42
Speaker
Yes, it is. Yeah. We're breaking ground. We're breaking ground. We are so honored,
Kojo's Birding Journey
00:01:49
Speaker
sir. This is so cool. Yeah. So so you're 23 young bucks out here in the world, right? Recent Princeton grad.
00:01:58
Speaker
so Hard flex. And you are you are already just making waves and birding in the conservation world. and And can you walk us through your your journey? Like, how did you get to be the vulture dude on Instagram? How did this all begin? How did you end up studying this kind of stuff in school? Just walk us through a little bit of the history of ah young to adult Kojo. Yeah. Yeah, so I started birding when I was six years old, ah pretty young. My parents were not into it. That's the first question people ask. My parents African immigrants. They don't really they don't do it outside. They didn't do pets. They didn't do any of that. um and But I was always really into it. and
00:02:38
Speaker
I can even remember being like likes four or five, and my brother would point out mockingbirds on the deck, and he'd be like, oh, those are hawks fighting. And I believed him. But I was like, oh, that's so Yeah.
00:02:50
Speaker
And then um in first grade, we had like the book fair. We had it every year. And i remember seeing this this really cool book. It had a Harrier on it, a Northern Harrier with the yellow eyes. And it was it was kind of like staring me down. And I was like, i like that it was like speaking to me kind of. But I also wasn't super sold on it. Like I wanted to look around at every other book and make sure because you only got one free book. So you got to use once.
00:03:10
Speaker
And to my brother, yeah. And it's funny because my brother is not like an outdoorsy person either. Actually, he kind of is now, but not like an animals outdoorsy person. and But he was um kind of and instrumental for me um with that early stage. He went to the same school as me. He was two grades above.
00:03:24
Speaker
And his class was visiting the book fair at the same time, right? And so I remember asking i was like, i don't know what to get. What do you think i should get? And he, without me saying anything about it, pointed to the book the but with the harrier on it. It's called Raptor, A Kid's Guide to the Birds of Prey or something like that.
00:03:36
Speaker
And he was get that one with cool owl on it. And I was like, oh, yeah, the cool owl. And so I got it. So I got it, and I loved it. It was super cool. It didn't have every single raptor in the U.S., but the common ones, like the vultures, obviously. And after that, I was a big reader when was a kid in general. And so I went to the library, and I got, think it the Smithsonian Guide to Birds North America, Floyd, but the green one with the red-headed woodpecker on it. I read that literally front to back. And it was like, remember it was all the cool raptors too, like the southeastern ones, like Zotan Hawk and all. And I was like, there are more. And then like realized there are all these birds.
Vultures: Fascination and Misunderstanding
00:04:13
Speaker
Yeah. I read that front to back. Oh, he was opening the windows to the wonder, Jay.
00:04:18
Speaker
Once you stop exploring, you're going down this rabbit hole and this rabbit hole. You're like, oh my god. I cannot believe there are all these birds out here. Yeah, and the vultures. I remember, I feel like the vultures were the first moment where I saw a bird in the field garden in real life. And I was like, oh my god, it exists. real.
00:04:36
Speaker
And I guess I still remember, I actually... Probably like four or five months ago, I went on Amazon and I found the the book because I don't know where it is. and My old copy is, but I found the book and I bought it. It's like 15 bucks. So now I just have it in my car and just look at it, whatever.
00:04:49
Speaker
um Just like kind of go down memory lane. But have the pictures of vultures in it and I saw one a turkey vulture overhead and was like, it's the same thing. I saw black vulture and saw that was different. It had the silver wig tips and yeah, I was hooked.
00:04:59
Speaker
It was like, it was all downhill from there. Yeah, my parents, they're not into it, but they were always really, really supportive of it. They thought it was a phase for a while, but they got me like a pair of binoculars and, you know. yeah Yeah. You got to make t-shirts to say birding is not a phase. It's not. It's not. Exactly. exactly that is i got it I was into snakes at first, and I got like a like a little herb guide. And my mom ah is not, again, if Africa, all the snakes there can kill you. So she was like, this is not going to this is not goingnna fly. So I like,
00:05:28
Speaker
I went into birds after that. I've always been really into this nature in general. That's dope. That's dope. And so did you like you use that love of of birds to kind of... you Did you know that going to Princeton? Like, when I get out, ornithology is going to be the path I go on?
00:05:44
Speaker
Sort of, kind of. So I always wanted to go to Cornell because I was like the birding, the bird place. And then when I was deciding where to go, I luckily got into both schools, which was crazy to me. I never thought that anything like that would ever happen. But I did well in school. But then at kind of crossroads, you're like, you can't really choose a bad, neither of these options are bad, which is a good problem to have. But it was like, my parents like, you're going to go Princeton. And I was like, okay, I'm going to Princeton, then whatever. Yeah.
00:06:08
Speaker
Yeah. And I was pre-med. i was pre-med for half a semester. That didn't work out. And I just, I was ecology, but still pre-med. And I had the dream to do birds and ornithology and just nature. But I, you know, it don't be paying very, very well. And so my parents were kind of like, if you're going to Princeton and spending all this money, you should be, people at the school call like selling out, you know, like going to Wall Street or to consulting or whatever the heck. And I was like, I was open to it but I was also like, want to do something that, you know, I love. And I really, and it doesn't have to be even just birds, but just environmentally related. I want to feel like I'm making a positive difference in the world. I got out of school and for one reason to the other, I just did not do well with finding a job. But then I um got the job at Cape May um for the, for the fall as an interpretive naturalist, which was cool. Cause like, I'd always want to do that, but I always didn't really want to do like a seasonal job because I was very scared of like not knowing where I was going to be in a couple months. And
00:07:01
Speaker
kind of learned that in ecology especially, you kind of can't get out of the season, especially at the start. So I'm at peace with that now. I'm happy, but back then I was like, I don't know. But it worked out. It worked out well. And now I'm here in Nebraska. As for the vultures, sorry, I'm kind of going on. It's ah kind of a long story. The vultures, I did my senior thesis on them, which was also really fun in full circle. I had no idea what I wanted to do, but I didn't want to really travel too far because I had been able to travel um like to some other spots for like other internships, and I really liked it, but I wanted to stay near home, especially for my last summer and stuff. And then there's a grad student in my lab who was doing vulture work at Hawk Mountain, wearing my Hawk Mountain shirt, actually.
00:07:37
Speaker
yeah ni I see that. I see that. It says, no carcass left behind. I love it. that That's It's so good. I love it. Yeah, but they do a lot of cool stuff there. And it was a really fun summer, getting to know Black Vultures really intimately. And then I just did some work along with that, with their behavior and stuff that we'll talk about. Yeah, that's the short version of the story, I guess. Man, you have an incredible story. And I think...
00:08:03
Speaker
Just you're losing bird joy, which I'm just like beyond excited about. I can't help it. I can't help On the bird joy podcast. But as a young person, you know, as a young birder, a lot of young folks, they just, they don't feel like they belong. Maybe it could be their parents. And are you sure about that?
00:08:22
Speaker
Do you ever feel like that? You don't necessarily fit the mold of what a birder is supposed to be like as young, parents or African immigrants, right? Do you ever just feel like, is this for me? Yeah, it's weird. Because when I was young, I definitely did not at all. Like I didn't, ah yeah when you're young, or well, I feel like black people learn earlier than other, some other um races, but like you kind don't really know much about, I guess, social um dynamics or anything like that. And I learned again quickly. But when I was really getting into it, I didn't really think about the fact that I was the only, the only, not just the only black kid, but really the only kid around who was doing it, at least um where I was.
00:08:55
Speaker
Okay. And of course, later on, you learn um about racial dynamics and you realize like, I'm i'm the only black guy out here. And people, you know, they come up to you and they assume that you're not good at it. And or I don't know, not maybe I'm not good at it, but at least novice. And even though you got like a have a huge camera and like pretty like I got the I don't know. I don't feel like I look like a novice, but like people still kind of assume. You know he just kind of show them up a little bit while being very still very kind and classy. I remember when I was a kid, I really had like a chip on my shoulder. I was like, lots of proof. People think i don't I don't belong out here. well I'll show you. yeah yeah I feel like I'm not that spiteful now, but still, i make it kind of like...
00:09:36
Speaker
No, that's dope. I totally get that. like ah You feel like you have to do a very respectful yet forceful clap back. Yeah. Right. You know, let me come up to me. Well, actually, that was this. Yeah.
00:09:50
Speaker
yeah Yeah, exactly. Even the first day I got out here, I was i went to like ah like a lookout just to watch the cranes fly to the roost at night. And a couple mallards flew over. I didn't know what they were. And there were a couple other people there. I took a picture and zoomed in. They're obviously mallards.
00:10:03
Speaker
And the guy's like, no, those aren't mallards. They can't be mallards. And I was like, dude, look at the photo. They're mallards. I don't know what to do. Relaxing. Yeah, it's sort it's just not that serious for one. They're mallards. Yeah, that's dope, man. That's dope. Yeah, so yeah I try not to take it too personally, but.
00:10:21
Speaker
Following up on that, Kojo, what helped you stay inspired, though, as you go to these spaces that weren't necessarily diverse, didn't necessarily see young Black people there? what What kept you motivated and inspired during those times? Well, without, uh, kind of, um, uh, guess appealing the name of the podcast, a hundred percent of joy, the bird, the bird joy. for time It was just, I wanted to be there. No one was going to stop me from being there. And at the end of the day, you know, you're outside, you're enjoying nature and no one can follow you for that. People can try, people can try and people have tried, not just me, you know, a lot of people. and and You're not doing anything wrong. You're simply enjoying the space that everybody is, what's the word, is um deserves to enjoy. Sex Hines is chemi. I will say I've always been kind of a contrarian. I've never really enjoyed doing what everybody else does, which is kind of annoying. because it's like an
00:11:09
Speaker
I mean, when I was younger, it was like an individuality complex thing, and now I'm just like, okay, like don't do that as much. But also, like it's just kind of the way I am. I like it was always... I didn't mind being on my own as a kid, and wandering around doing whatever. um And so I think that that early experience really just kind of getting my bearings. um I used to run around my neighborhood doing like trying to find whatever words I could find on my own. I didn't do a real bird walk until I was probably three or four years into it.
00:11:33
Speaker
But that early experience kind of helped me, I guess, find my footing and be less self-conscious about it, I think. Because you know what you're doing. You really enjoy what you're doing. And again, no one can really say anything about that but if it's true. Yeah. Yeah, sure, sure. And that's, you know, a lot of us start out, especially black and brown folks, start out doing it by ourselves, right? Because entering those already established spaces aren't, isn't always there or we don't know how to on-ramp. And so, I mean, I spent, hell, I spent 20 years in Philly thinking I was one of two black birders in the entire southeast of Pennsylvania.
Mentorship and Influences
00:12:03
Speaker
And so... Until until Black Birders Week, yeah when I get on Twitter and I'm like, oh my goodness, they are homies. Like in Jersey, Maryland, Delaware. right and like But we just had no, again, shout out to the folks at Black AF and STEM. We had no idea. And i'm I'm wondering, was there, um as you were going along your journey there, right? You mentioned that mom and dad were supportive, but they they wasn't about to be climbing through the bushes with you looking for that little sparrow.
00:12:29
Speaker
Right, right, right. Have there been any key mentors or figures who helped guide you once you kind of really got into the space, whether it's your studies in science, birding, or even content creation? ah little bit, yeah. um In terms of just birding in general, um I met a really nice woman the first time I went to Cape May. um Her name is Diane.
00:12:45
Speaker
i don't know I should, I mean, it I'm not going to, no one's going to what she is. But I met her, and I think the first time I went to Cape, okay, so I should back up a little bit. So, hawk watching, raptors are really one of my favorite ah groups of birds, and hawk watching one my favorite kinds of birding. and so I think one one week in September, like 2013, I went to this Hawk Watch, a local Hawk Watch, and that was pretty cool. It was it was decent. It wasn't super super good, but they they said, if you want to see really cool hawks, you should go to Hawk Mountain. And so my dad took me took me to Hawk Mountain um the next week. And there, it was a good day. it was a really good day. it was super cool up in the mountains. and But they were like, you want to see a lot of birds, you should go to Cape May. And so next weekend, we were at Cape May. And there, they happened to be doing like a Hawks in Flight workshop kind of thing led by ah Pete Dunn.
00:13:25
Speaker
and Oh, nice. Yeah, and I met this ah this really nice lady named Diane, who basically took me under her wing and um was really, she lived in Jersey, excuse me, was on the New Jersey Audubon board and kind of showed me around, introduced me to a lot of people on Jersey. So funny now I kind of joked at one point, I feel like I was one more i was more well known in Jersey than I was in Maryland, just cause I, I only went up there a couple of times a year, but like when you go up there again, you're pretty distinctive. You're seeing birds on the pointing out cool birds and, but I just felt kind of really welcomed up there. And, um, she was really kind of the catalyst for all that. She helped me ah bird on, do my first world series of birding back in the day with the, and she actually introduced me to, to the, what do you call it? Um, to the youth Maryland ornithological society, which I had no idea that existed. and i met them for the first time, not even in Maryland. um And they're a really nice guy i'm named George, um George Radcliffe, who still leads it today. Yeah, and yeah he does some really, really great work with with youth. And it's crazy. Back then, there were maybe like 15, and now there are like 30, maybe 40 kids. like And Maryland is like a youth burning force. It's so, so crazy. Back in like the earlier days, um there really weren't too many of us. But um George and and Diane were really, really influential. And even my dad, too. I mean, my dad, my parents weren't birders, but again, they were really, really not really, ah what's the word? um Supportive. um And my dad would drive me. It's funny.
00:14:37
Speaker
My dad became the guy who drove me to lot of the places, but my mom was actually person who took me to my first ever Baltimore Bird Club walk. It was like a warbler walk. And again, that was like a moment where you see the pretty little warblers on a page and then you see them up in the trees and it's like, oh my God, like I still have a mental image. Yeah. Yeah. My mom's a doctor. I love that.
00:14:55
Speaker
Your dad's driving you to the mountains. Right. All over. Driving you to Cape May and take you. never did that. Yeah. so That three weekends was kind of crazy, but he never did it again. But it was it was still so super formative three weekends.
00:15:07
Speaker
Yeah. So who took you to see your first vulture? Oh, I think that was a self-driving kind of thing. I think that was just a little over the the backyard or something. One time my mom left ah like ah ah some chicken thawing on the deck. I don't know.
00:15:20
Speaker
I got a vulture scooped in and grabbed it and then ate which was hilarious. was like third grade. It was great. It was great. Look, all we remember in birds from the third grade, man. I know, man. I think you have found your spot.
00:15:35
Speaker
yeah Yeah. But the vultures, they found me. They found me for sure. Yeah. Speaking of the vultures and how they found you, they get this bad rep and some people think they're creepy or they're gross. What drew you into these birds specifically?
00:15:53
Speaker
I think it was that that ah first connection I had with them um where they were kind of like, they were essentially my spark bird. Or if you really want to do it, like Mockingbird is my spark bird. But like Vultures, once I knew what birds like were and everything, were my spark spark bird. And I think, again, it kind of goes back to that contrarian thing where I like, I kind of like going against the grain and I can't help it. Like I'm... I feel like I've become a lot less insufferable about it, but I still kind of can't help it. I like what most, a lot of things don't like, people don't like. And even just burning is an example of how I was always like the only kid in my school who was remotely interested in anything like that. But I mean, but yeah, the vultures, I just, at some point I was just like, come on guys. Like it's nice when there's nothing else around, especially as a Hawk watcher, you can always count on them to be around. I really enjoy that. Even if sometimes you wish there was something else.
00:16:35
Speaker
I don't know. I appreciate the common birds, especially, especially them. Cause they're just so, so omnipresent. Like you can look up some people. At least you can look up at any point and see when you're like, okay, well, at least some things will never change. You know what mean? That's what I really like about that. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome, man. Like I, we have a lot of folks that, um, you know, we'll see them, especially Turkey vultures kind of just, uh, hovering around, you know, around Philly, you know, Yeah. You know, certainly Jersey.
00:16:58
Speaker
And I think the coolest part is like, we'll have people that come on our bird outings and like, they've seen them flying, but then one day we'll have one sitting in a tree or something close enough to scope. And they actually get a good look at like the head and the beat and hook and like, and you're, and they're like, Oh,
00:17:13
Speaker
Oh, oh, okay. Look at that. Like that's what they look like. I remember when I went to, there's a place out here, Dexter, called Conowingo Dam. Oh, yes. It has a ton of, yeah, it has a ton of bald eagles, but people don't realize it's also got a ton of black vultures. That's nice and hot.
00:17:29
Speaker
Yeah, they like to rip the, They like to rip some of the, some of the I guess, cushioning or sealant in between cars yeah and stuff. And like, it's the funniest thing. I like roll through the parking lot and I don't know how they make the decision, but they'll just choose one car and just get it. Like they just, yeah i'm um my I don't know who this person is, but I feel sorry for them when they walk back to their to their Toyota Tacoma because it's about to be jacked.
00:17:51
Speaker
yeah it's so It was so bad there that they have the signs. I don't know saw that when you were there, the beware vultures. Yeah, I've seen them. Yeah, i've I've taken selfies with those signs. Like, they're absolutely hilarious. And people are like, what do you mean the vultures are going to come after the ceiling around my car door? Oh, they out they like this? Is there like a certain chemical in there or something? Yeah. So I've entertained a lot of fan theories about this. And what I've kind of come down to is that they really like rubber, especially like the rubber windshield wipers. And I think it's kind of like an enrichment activity for them. It kind of simulates pulling the meat off a carcass almost.
00:18:28
Speaker
That's my guess. I still have no idea. That's a good guess though. They pull a lot of things. Like they pull in the nest. If you look at like nest cams, if they have like little ivy, like little vines that will grow over the barn door or whatever, they'll pull those, the babies will pull those. They just love pulling.
00:18:44
Speaker
kind of just destroying things i think they just have their agents of chaos and at some point one vulture realized they could do this some people don't think they eat it they do eat it too sometimes sometimes if they just pull it sometimes that it really it no yeah okay but i've i've considered going back to school and getting a master's and like if i if i did i probably will but like one of the things i would really love to study is like this behavior and why they do it and where it occurs and all that stuff but yeah yeah yeah Yeah, it's a great spot. It's a great spot. and And I wonder, like, speaking of things that vultures do that we don't understand or maybe even know about, like, have you have you had to push back on some major myths about vultures? And and which ones have you had to push back on most when you when you interact with people? the Number one is ah they can projectile vomit on you, which is... It's kind of like an urban legend of sorts. And but when I first went to Hawk Mountain, I learned that, because you we have to handle them there. Wrangle is a better word. you have to wrangle them. And...
00:19:37
Speaker
So when do you do that, when you pick them up or when you really start threatening them, they will basically throw up and defecate to lighten the load is what it's called. And um it's just kind of a way to make themselves lighter so they can get away. But the babies will do it.
00:19:49
Speaker
It's like an instinct instinctual thing, even when they can't fly. It is it can look kind of like they're I mean, it's not like a thing they can aim and like shoot and point as far as I know. And I, at one point I really scoured the internet because I was like, where did this come from? I still have no idea. it seems to happen more a turkey vulture than black vultures, but still it's kind of like a thing. Really what they do is they just, they just throw up. It's the action of it that also kind of puts a lot of would-be predators off. Like if it's a big meal, of course, then the, you know, kind of spurts and it's, it's crazy, but they can't like throw up on you from 15 feet or like whatever that the myths say. Like that's a, major one. It's not like yeah like the exorcist where they like hit you from across the bedroom.
00:20:23
Speaker
You know, it's not like that. Yeah. Every time I saw it, it was very, it was kind of like dry heaving. they're like, just like, lock it's gross. It's really gross. And I will say as much as I love them, I don't think I will ever handle another vulture again, if I can help it. I didn't even get to do it that many times, but like, they're just, they're really stinky. That's that's what I'll give it.
00:20:42
Speaker
Okay. I've never disputed that they're gross. I've never disputed that. I just think it's an endearing kind of gross. As long as you're not in it or touching it or whatever, you know, but they are gross. gar And it helps. So if you don't keep a vulture in your living room, they're totally fine. Exactly. Yeah. Someone's got to be gross. I mean, you probably heard they're like the janitors or the cleanup crew. Yeah.
00:21:03
Speaker
They're super important. I love that about them. Yeah, someone's got to get their feathers dirty. It's not to be us. It's not going to be the pretty little red-tailed hawks. It's got to somebody. I just felt like red-tailed hawks just caught astray there. felt like they were suggesting that. It was the first thing I thought of. It wasn't even personal. I was going to say bald eagle. You said pretty little red-tailed hawk. I'm like, oh, oh, oh.
00:21:24
Speaker
It's okay. You better out on your next Hawk Walk. Kojo, obviously pushing back on projectile vomiting. That's pretty crazy. But what's one of the more surprising or interesting things that you learned studying vultures that made you know made you go, yo, people need to know about this?
00:21:41
Speaker
Yeah, just how really social they are, especially black vultures. That's the the species I studied more. um Really all vultures are social, but black vultures kind of take it to another level. They ah they form these communal roosts that they see in year round and they function as like food finding information centers, which means that the birds that find food, which are usually like breeding adults, ah will get followed to that food source by freeloaders eventually. And so the reason they're so aggressive, vultures in general, is because they can kind of control in some capacity who gets to follow them to these places. Usually if a bird gets beaten up, it's less likely to return to that specific roost the next day. So you have a lot of young birds that aren't breeding yet. They don't breed.
00:22:18
Speaker
They're sexually mature at three years old, but they don't breed until like seven or eight, which is really crazy. they're really long lived. But in that meantime, no one really knows what they do. Just kind of run around from roost to roost and getting beaten up and all this stuff until they, you know, I guess, fuck down and inside and down stuff. But it's... They have all these really cool social dynamics that, I mean, you see them and they they're really caring towards their family members and towards their affiliates. They form these coalitions of possibly unrelated, like, nuclear families that will gang up or band together at ah at our feeding sites and roosts and then kind of fight other coalitions and stuff. We don't know that much about those either.
00:22:50
Speaker
But then they're super... Yeah, they only... fight or and are only aggressive towards rivals that are unrelated and towards their affiliates. They're really, really caring. They do this thing called allopreening where they'll preen each other, kind of like mutual grooming. Even the babies do it in the nest. It's so, so sweet.
00:23:05
Speaker
But then they can turn around and be pretty nasty towards other birds. So it's what I want people to know most is that, I don't know they're not just like birds that fly over you because they think you're dead or whatever. And that's not even happening. That's another myth, by the way. If you'd like, if you're lying down in the grass,
00:23:19
Speaker
And a vulture flies over you, it's not checking you out because it thinks you're dead. it's literally just flying around. Like, it's minding its business. So, I got it. But think that's it. You're not that serious. You're not that important for a vulture to be stopped by. Like, relax. Check your ego a little bit, right? Right. Yeah.
00:23:32
Speaker
But, yeah, they're just super, super um social and really complicated birds. That's awesome.
Content Creation and Education
00:23:38
Speaker
Vultures come out and play. Mm-hmm. and you know This is so interesting. and i And I think a lot of people have come to know you through your social media, right? in it And you do such a good job of kind of weaving in. Obviously, you're bird joy, which I don't think you could hide it if you tried, right? Like it it is there, right? And like, so you bring all this out, but you tie people into information, like really good information around vultures and and other parts of birding and birds. what's What's your creative process like when you're making a reel or a post?
00:24:11
Speaker
Yeah, so my social media journey was really quite interesting because I started, when I started photography in like seventh grade, I just used to digiscope and just post them and be like, yay, this is cool. And I started photography because I wanted to, to I wanted look a good home screen for my phone. And I would go on Flickr and screenshot, but a screenshot isn't good quality, so it would be really blurry. So i'll just be like, ah.
00:24:32
Speaker
So I started taking my own photos. Did photos for the longest time until really last, last, so what do you call it, last summer. And I was sitting at home, unemployed, and in between 30 for jobs, I started would try and find new ways to rejuvenate my social media. And I realized Reels was kind of the way to go. I was again, contrarian. I really, I didn't like Reels for a while. I was like, a lot of the ones that go viral are just so mind numbing and no no one's ever saying anything. And it's like, a I don't know, like no one's like, what are we doing? um But then I realized I had all this, I had hours and hours of vulture footage because I um i studied their social behavior at Roost's Den in the Nest for my thesis. And I had no idea what to do with any of it. And I was like, let me just post this little thing of me holding a vulture and then ah two of the kid vultures running around being goofy in the nest. and it blew up and I was like, oh, okay, so this is what people wanna see.
00:25:14
Speaker
so i i just So I posted those. It was just so, i don't know, it was it was crazy. um it like a little It's kind of scary, cause it's like a dopamine rush and sometimes like when a video blows up, I'm just like, oh my God, it just keeps going going up. going up but like it's They're fun to make too. Talking about Kano Wingo Dam, after a while I was like, ah let me just go to, let me find real life vultures um and try and see if I can get video done with my big camera and everything. And I realized Kano Wingo Dam is an hour away. Their vultures are 24 seven. Let me see if that works. And it was great. They were there, they were doing amazing and being crazy on cars and all this stuff. And so that really helped as well.
00:25:53
Speaker
When I'm making a reel, you want to make it eye-catching, but again, also informative. i want There's time for like the the goofy trends and like whatever, and those do help you grow. But i also i want people to learn something. I feel like social media is the way I I'm a yapper, if you can already. And it's like a great place for me to just kind of like yap to the void about whatever I love, um vultures and other kinds birds as well. And the vulture stuff, it's it's kind of interesting because, i again, I've always been interested in vultures, but like I didn't really become like the vulture guy until my thesis, really. I really discovered how much crazy stuff there was to learn about them. But then even now, I'm trying to kind of branch out to other things, too, because what I'm really kind of worried about is landing in a spot like for a job that doesn't have vultures, which God forbid, but also kind of maybe running out of things and I don't have anything else to post or no, everyone follows me for vultures and no one really cares about the other stuff. But luckily it's been kind of, I've kind of found a couple other niches and I'm still posting vulture stuff as well, but like, it's been cool to show people other birds because not everybody that follows me is a birder, you know, it's like people would have just wanted to see your funny videos of baby vultures and kind of, but to show people those other things too, other cool birds and have them comment, oh, i like I'm not, I follow you for the vultures, this is cool too, I'm not much of a birder at all, but like this makes me want to go out and see blah, blah, blah. That's,
00:26:59
Speaker
kind of the goal, you know, just to share the joy with other people um and hopefully get as many people hooked. Because that's how conservation aims to get met by getting people to care about them. Yes, yes. When they get the always say if you get people to care, you can get them to do listen yeah get them to do something and you can get them to donate, you can get them to come on a bird walk, you can get them to do some citizen science, you can get them to do a bunch of different things. You mentioned a couple of the videos and they definitely got me if there if there was one real that kind of sums up your vibe and the message. If somebody's listening right now that hasn't found you yet, which one would you pick up for them to go watch and why?
00:27:38
Speaker
Probably ah a recent one just did. It's a Sandhill Crane vlog. And I've been trying to get into the vlog stuff recently because I've realized people really like hearing like the and seeing the the face and voice behind the camera as well. That was another thing I kind of had to learn on this past year.
00:27:52
Speaker
that you can't just you know be posting like the actual birds, but like people like hearing your story and like what you like about things as well. And so I've started doing these vlogs. I did one in this in the in the summer or in the in the fall of Cape May, and it didn't do that well. And I was like, maybe it's just too long. People have horrible attention spans nowadays, not getting any better. So I was like, maybe that's not what i want to do. And then I got here.
00:28:12
Speaker
And I found these short-eared owls. And was like, let me just do a vlog. One minute, 30 second vlog about me finding these owls and watching them you know fight with each other and um find voles to eat and just you know being owls. And that did really well. So i like, okay, let me try cranes because the other crane stuff wasn't working. me I was like, if I do meat and cranes, you know.
00:28:30
Speaker
someone might like that and it's it just kind of blew up i'm really had go happy because i worked really hard i worked so hard on it because i hate the way my voice sounds the voiceovers i have to do it so many times and all that but like it's just a really it's like it's succinct it kind of i think it sums up my vibe well i i got like you said i couldn't have my joy if i tried which i kind of like about me i even like even in like job interviews people like have noticed i light up when i'm talking about what i love and i think it's a i guess strength of mine um And I really, really like that. It's kind of weird to say like it's organic, but it is organic. Like i don't have to hide it or fake it or anything.
00:29:02
Speaker
And it really works, I guess, to that advantage. It kind of shows people how exciting these things are. It helps when you have like cool clips and things too. But I think that really how you communicate the story is really important too. And just kind of being myself has really been what...
00:29:15
Speaker
works the best on Instagram while making um social media videos. so So that one I think is a good kind of showcasing my personality really well. And the vulture stuff is also great too. I'm looking forward to doing some kind of vulture blog at some point. I'm sure it'll be really well. But like those blogs, I'm really trying to do more and kind of showcase my personality more because it seems like it really resonates with people. That's because humans love a good story. Yeah.
00:29:36
Speaker
And people love authentic love authentic human being. So when you're yourself and you're getting all excited and jacked up, that gets people excited. And then they're like, look how excited this dude is.
00:29:49
Speaker
Now I'm learn from him because he's making him so happy and so excited. So continue to do that. and Just be your yeah be yourself, man. And when you do that, you'll also, you'll be fulfilled making the content.
00:30:02
Speaker
Right? Like you won't do it. Oh, I'm doing some Tik Tok dance or some trend or you'll be like, I'm actually teaching people something. I'm actually not one of the many people doing the same thing out there. People will come to you because it's real and it's authentic. So I love it. I love your content so much.
00:30:20
Speaker
Make sure y'all go check out that crane, that crane. Thank you guys. Yeah, man. That's awesome. That's awesome. And if you can't tell, Dexter teaches this as a professor at the University of Wisconsin, podcasting and social media. So any advice he gives you is coming from a professional's perspective. Yeah. Yeah. Just just so you know, you're just sitting in the room with the master. the na Yeah.
00:30:45
Speaker
Have you gotten any like, uh, like major feedback or, or something that's particularly memorable on any of your reels or social media presence from, I don't know, anyone that you, you know, didn't think was watching you or, or, you know, someone that was really touched by something you did that you were like, wow, I didn't, I didn't realize I was doing that. Like anything come to mind?
00:31:05
Speaker
In general, it's just been the number of people who wouldn't be interested in out outdoors or birds otherwise who get shown on my content and are like, this is really cool. Because that's the that's the dream, essentially, is to show this to this as many people ah to as many people as possible. And if they look at it, look at the little 15-second video on Instagram and then like it and go about their day, leave a little comment, that's fine. But also, the real goal is to you know hopefully get them to start, a little by little, noticing what's really around them and their natural world as well.
00:31:30
Speaker
um And so whenever i I got like a comment that was like, oh, I saw vultures the other day and I thought of you or something like that. I'm like, ah, yes, it's working. The agenda is spreading.
Vulture Evolution and Behavior
00:31:39
Speaker
Got him. Yeah.
00:31:42
Speaker
Right. like it's yeah I love that. I love that. You know, i actually have a, before we get off of vultures, I have a follow-up question, Dex, if I can fit one in here. um So we talk about turkey vultures and black vultures, right? New world vultures. Do you have an old world vulture that's top of your list that you need to go see?
00:32:01
Speaker
um I need to go see Griffin vulture, oh, Lammergeirs, Lammergeirs, bearded vultures, Lammergeirs, 100%. Oh, I've wanted to see those for years and years and years, and I want to see one drop a bone. Or do you know they even drop turtles? like What? hope yeah like Yeah. They'll even drop turtles or sometimes. I saw the bone drop video, and I was like, what?
00:32:20
Speaker
100% Lamberguyers. And there's people walking around like, I'm like, ah yeah y'all know how they talk about the the branches and woods, our widow makers? That's what them bones be looking like, you know? I'm like, y'all, y'all crazy people. It's gonna be Kojo crazy self out there. Yeah.
00:32:37
Speaker
A new reel, like, what is it like to get, like, hit in the head by a Lamberguyer villain or something like that? I can see it now. Yeah. so I love the Old World Vultures. They're amazing. yeah Yeah, they're cool, man. They're cool. I feel like they're like, um i was a big Game of Thrones fan. I feel like they're just dragons from another part of the the Seven Kingdoms. you know And some people don't know this. I don't know if you guys know this, but they're actually completely genetically separate from New World Vultures. yeah like they're indifferent like that Which is so cool to me. They're like specialized eagles, essentially. They're in Excepterday and then New World Vultures.
00:33:08
Speaker
For while, it was thought that newer vultures were related more to storks than hawks. Turns out that's not true. They are more related to hawks, but like they are still kind of their own separate thing. And they just evolved completely separately, which is so cool. They're so similar. they Even the old worlds, they do the same things like with the social stuff and the fighting and the kung fu and all that. like oh Lack of face vultures, they do a mean kick. It's really crazy. But they all developed those two groups completely separately, which I find... So I'm sorry if you knew that already, but it's just so crazy to me. No, no. I mean, isn't that wild, though? What they call it?
00:33:40
Speaker
Like Convergent Evolution or something like that? Yeah, I think Convergent Evolution. Yeah. Yeah. And like the Lapid-Faced Vultures, um When I was in Tanzania, there was a couple kills and we had a bunch of vultures on them. And they were telling me like, listen, the lapid face vultures have the biggest beaks and they come in and they're the ones that rip everything open first. yeah And then the other smaller homies come in and eat. And I was like, that's such a wild dynamic that like there's like roles in like yeah enter so interspecies roles for how you get at the kill. Right. Yeah. Like that's just wild to me, man.
00:34:15
Speaker
Yeah, in Gorongosa National Park in Mozambique, a lot there aren't many ah carnivores there um because of the Civil War. They do a lot of um hunting and stuff. But because of that, there are like only a couple pairs of Lapid-based vultures and they can't get to every single carcass. So you have whole carcasses that remain like completely unopened because nothing can rip them open.
00:34:32
Speaker
Like the other vultures just kind of sit around. They'll like come to and they'll just sit around waiting for like the one of the four lap-it-face vultures in the entire park to show up and like actually rip it. It's crazy. I never saw one there, but i saw them in Kruger and they were a massive deal. That's tough, man. Imagine how tough you got to feel as a lap-it-face vulture. Like nobody can eat unless you rip it open. Like talk about like, you know, forget the lion.
00:34:52
Speaker
Leopard Face Vulture is the king out there, you know? That's dope. And they show up they show up late too. Like they'll show up late and then command the whole thing. Like everybody's like, okay, we got back. Yeah, it's there there's something else.
00:35:04
Speaker
And they know it. That's so cool. Beyond the Vultures, my guy, you're you're sitting in Nebraska right now.
Birding Adventures in Nebraska
00:35:11
Speaker
And we talked a little bit about the the Sand Hill Crane vlog that you did just did. What stood out to you about that experience? Like, what was that learning experience about being in a new environment, really spending time with a new species?
00:35:24
Speaker
What stood out to you about that experience? Yeah, Nebraska has been ah super cool to me because I i didn't know much about ah the birds before i applied before i applied and after I applied for the job. And the crane stuff is, oh, I should back up and say, I'm i'm My position is, as a Hubbard Fellow, I'm mostly doing land management stuff and then other just ins and outs of a nonprofit and kind of whatever you want it to be, stuff like that. Birds are not really, unless I want them to be and I do do a little bird stuff, but like they're not really part of the job description besides crane season.
00:35:54
Speaker
But even that isn't part of the online, was not part of the stuff. I didn't know anything about it until the first interview. And I probably had read about the Sandal Cranes in Nebraska and stuff before at Central Flyaway, but i just... You know, it's not a place that unless you're born here, like it's not, especially as a black murderer here, you're not going to like think of about Nebraska as like your first, the first place you go to.
00:36:13
Speaker
So it was, uh, no lies detected. I gotta be, I gotta be real. Gotta be real. It's yeah, I really didn't. I had no idea going end up here, but it's just amazing. Like the cranes, of of course, um so for a little rundown for, I guess, whoever listens to Sandhill Cranes, um but I think 80%, 80 to 90% of the world's population of Sandhill Cranes um migrates through 90 mile stretch of the Platte River Valley here in Nebraska, and they go up to Canada and Alaska and even Siberia and they do so in like a month and a half timeframe you have at peak you have usually about 650,000 cranes in that stretch but actually this year we have record I think 736,000 cranes were on the river at some point and then 90 miles so it's crazy literally for a month you walk outside and you either hear or see cranes and you can't get away from them which I loved personally my boss is the My boss is a really cool all-around naturalist. He did some bird stuff, but he jokes and rags on birds and stuff, and he complains that you can't hear anything else when they're around. But again, I'm not. I can't imagine the sound of that many cranes. Yeah, so I was also really struck by the fact that they've been doing this since even before the Platte River was a thing. The Platte River is a couple, like maybe a million years old or something like that, or maybe 10,000, I forget. But Sandhill Cranes are two and a half million years old, and cranes themselves are upwards of 10 million years old. They've been coming through here forever. You look at them they look prehistoric, and I mean, it just kind of struck me.
00:37:44
Speaker
Yeah, right. they sound like That's my favorite bird, the sandhill crane, just just so you know. right and And you know how they got me is I was in Idaho visiting some family and they started calling just two of them and it echoed through this canyon. And you can't tell me a dinosaur didn't sound like that. Like the like that rattle kind of ah bugle.
00:38:06
Speaker
Yeah. It sounds like there's a velociraptor just kind of signaling to the homies like, yo, we about to hunt. Like, you know, it's it's incredible, man. And it's so crazy how like a couple of them can sound like so many. It doesn't take that many of them to just make it deafening. And, you know, they're a force.
00:38:25
Speaker
Air Force. Yeah, a couple years ago, we hosted an event at the Aldo Leopold Shack, actually, and it's right on the Wisconsin River. And we got to see 16,000 come in. And I can't, that's a, I thought that was a lot until I heard about Nebraska. But just the sound of that was just like, whoa, like chills, man. like And there were left there were three whooping cranes mixed in with them. And it was just a really special, special evening. And i just all of our club members still talk about that. they are They're just special birds. They're also a fascinating conservation story in Wisconsin um because we almost lost them. At one point, there were only, yeah, we almost lost the sandhill cranes in the state. Aldo Leopold actually wrote about it in his land ethic. We only had about 20 nesting pair left in the state. And he basically said, hey, they were over hunting.
00:39:16
Speaker
You know, everybody was just hunting, hunting, hunting. naturally There's so many of them. There's so, don't worry about it. There's so many, there's so many. And before you know it, they were on the brink of being wiped out. And often tell people that the sandhill crane would be an amazing, our state bird is the American Robin.
00:39:32
Speaker
And I always tell people it should be the Sandhill Crane simply because not only is it super majestic, but it's one of the best conservation stories in the country. How that bird has made its comeback in the state of Wisconsin and it's doing really, really well. So yeah.
00:39:47
Speaker
And you guys have some Sandhill Crane. Oh yeah. yeah You guys have some whooping cranes that breed in Wisconsin too, right? like Yeah, we do. have a We got a nice one of the larger populations of whooping cranes in the entire country. Not a lot. marry though but Yeah, it's like 70, 80 or something like that. Yeah. Yeah, it's the most endangered crane in the world. So it's yeah every time I see one, I go up the Horicon Marsh. And every time I see one, I'm just like, I can't believe it. Because i know I'm super lucky that I can see these birds. hopefully for years to come, but every every spring and summer I go up there and I see them and and wow.
00:40:23
Speaker
This is a beautiful person. Talk about a fourth. Yeah. And they're almost as tall as me, which is embarrassing. I'm like 5'8", so they're almost there. They're about five foot. I'm right there with you, sir. Right there with you. Yeah, they're the tallest in North America. Yeah, I think I was 5'9 when I was in high school, and then I've just been shrinking ever since. I'm technically 5'7 and 3 quarters, but I say 5'8 because no one will check.
00:40:46
Speaker
That's all right. No one needs to know. We just wear shoes, look tall, stand up straight. We're good. I just froze myself. Come on, man. We it real. We keep it real on the Bird Talk podcast. Exactly. No cat fishing here. No,
Monetizing and Expanding Content
00:41:02
Speaker
no. So you got your Hubbard Fellowship. You got your online stuff going. any Any big goals for your career, your content, for the cranes, for the vultures, for anything, anything that you're driving towards right now?
00:41:13
Speaker
Um, nothing in particular, just growing really. And honestly, if I'm being want monetization in some capacity, I'd really love to see if I can make some kind of career. Um, of course not, maybe not full time, but like some, at least some kind of side hustle ah off, off things. I've thought about prints. I don't really know how to ah go about that. One thing I learned, especially this ah recently is that, is that my photos are, I think they're probably good enough to buy. It's like a saturated market, but like, since I have a reach hope and you know, maybe I could get some nice little vulture portraits up in someone's family room. That'd be fun. So I've thought about that. Instagram is really, i guess, since you're creators, you guys probably know, like they are only doing like kind of beta testing on a lot of monetization stuff right now. So I'm kind of grinding and hoping that they that they are invite me to that. Started on TikTok now because they have like an actual creator fund. You got to have 10,000 followers and have videos over a minute and a half or something to get invited. But like I'm kind of working towards that right now. And it's nice because since I just started posting on TikTok, I can post all the this stuff I post on Instagram again. And I don't really have to
00:42:10
Speaker
I can really make it or just like kind of maybe tweak it a little bit. And it's kind of fun to see a whole new audience, really. It's definitely a younger audience on TikTok, too, which is kind interesting to see. Mm hmm. Yeah. And for us old people, just as far as we're going.
00:42:22
Speaker
Yeah. Maybe I'll do Facebook, too. don't know, just kind of expanding as much as I can, doing it in my free time and honing my craft, I guess. The vlogs and stuff or more long form content I really want to start doing um because People seem to like it. um And it's nice to cut to diversify. It takes a a lot longer to edit and stuff, but usually the end result is something I really like. And it really gets to show a bird in a more intimate and, um I guess, a deeper light, I guess, ah which people seem to really respond to. And it's great for, guess, exposing people to all types of birds and stuff. Really looking forward to that, to showing people what Nebraska is like. Because, again, a lot of people don't realize Nebraska is a really good place for birding and for the natural history and all that. I mean, I didn't know at all.
00:43:02
Speaker
They want me I'm here and it's for a year and I'll do it and we'll see what happens. But it's been, I didn't expect to hate it, but I've just, it's, it's bummed my mind. So awesome. love it. I love it. You're supposed to be there, man. Yeah. Super inspiring, super inspiring to to see what you're doing. And we got,
00:43:18
Speaker
we got We got listeners all over the country. If somebody is listening right now, all over the world, I should say, somebody listening to you right now and they're inspired by by you or they just might feel like they don't know enough or they're too young, they don't fit in What would you tell them?
Inspiring Young Birders
00:43:36
Speaker
I'd say the only way to alleviate those feelings and hopefully make you feel like you're supposed to be outside is by getting outside and doing it more. And um whenever you go outside, you learn something. It doesn't matter where you are, how many times you've been to a spot, how many times you've seen a particular bird or a herp or a mammal or whatever, you're gonna learn something. And it might be like a very minor thing, but like that's one of the things I love about going outside and um being in nature is that um no matter what no matter where you are, you can see something new and learn something new. And my mom used to, ah what is it? She used to choose our family vacations based on where she thought I'd see like the most birds where it was a good place.
00:44:13
Speaker
And eventually i was like, mom, you could literally choose anywhere going to see something new and I'm going to have fun and it's going amazing. Like you don't need to, you don't need to go to like to wherever. Like you can take me to freaking New Hampshire or something. And like, I'd say that. Oh, shout out to moms though. Shout out to moms for the consideration. For a mom, I read National Geek Burgers, man. They were nurturing that bird toy, bro. Shout out to agreed they might i i'm joking i know they don't but i looked i kind of joke that they might regret a little bit because they wish i was like still pre-med or being a doctor or whatever but like it's okay it's all right they'll get over they're probably just happy to see their son is happy exactly and and you're heart full and you're pursuing something that you love ultimately a parent that's you know that's all I want for my children. like I just want them to be happy. I want them to be making a change in the world.
00:45:04
Speaker
I want them to feel like they're making a difference. And you are, man. This is so cool. Thank you. I knew I was going to enjoy this conversation, Jason. This was another level. I'm like, this dude oozes bird joy. We have to talk to this dude. Yeah. That's right. That's right. You know, Kojo, thank you for bringing your brilliance, your love of birds that don't get enough love and your whole incredible joyful self to this conversation, man. Thank you guys for having me so much. This was super incredible. And I really enjoyed our time. can't wait to listen to it. This what it's about, bro. This is what it's about. Bird joy is about embracing all of it.
00:45:42
Speaker
100%. Even the misunderstood, right? The vultures. You're showing the world, bro, that joy can come in unexpected feathers, my friend. Oh, yeah. And and where can um where can people follow your work or learn learn more about vultures or the work you're doing out in Nebraska with the land there and some of the crane stuff? Yeah, I'm on Instagram and TikTok now at Kojo Birder. So the K-O-J-O, Birder.
00:46:06
Speaker
Yeah, that's, ah I'm thinking about maybe YouTube. I don't know yet. I don't know. you Luckily, I have a pretty distinctive name, especially a birder. So i'm not I don't think I'm hard to find. But um yeah, I will be posting all sorts of stuff.
00:46:18
Speaker
Sometimes I'm like, maybe this is all too. It's not like cohesive enough, but I kind like it that way. I like jumping over and showing people all sorts. That's what I'm... what I'm seeing and what I'm enjoying. So yeah, that's where you can find me. Yeah, man. You definitely got two YouTube subscribers. Yeah, you definitely got two YouTube subscribers already from us too. If you decide do that, man, I would love to love to see that.
00:46:39
Speaker
We'll definitely link to Shakojo's Instagram and his TikTok in the show notes for
Community and Upcoming Events
00:46:45
Speaker
sure. But we want to thank everybody for joining us today on the Bird Joy podcast. We hope you enjoy exploring the world of vultures with us and the homie Kojo.
00:46:55
Speaker
Shout out to the BIPOC flock homies. Today we were out at our bird-a-thon. We had 60 species. All right. Super cool. We had a bunch of turkey vultures flying low in Milwaukee. It was really cool. Make sure y'all check out what we got going on at BIPOCbirdingClub.org.
00:47:12
Speaker
Yep, yep. And the homies in Philly, in color birding, in color birding.org. We have a bunch of stuff coming up, spring, summer, fall. So look forward to see you guys out. And Kojo, I was out this morning doing some birding and this dude drove by. know when the car slows down and they want to like, you're like, okay, who's going to talk to me about what? Immediately, yes. this be a positive negative? The homie was like, listen, I see you got your camera there. Just so you know, behind that shut up there is where they drop all the dead roadkill.
00:47:39
Speaker
And I was like, oh, that's why I see like six turkey vultures over down there on the thing. So I get around there there's like three black vultures like fighting with each other around this like right pile of just stuff. And I was like, oh, I am coming back here. Cause I was like, I literally was like chip channeling my inner Kojo.
00:47:54
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you, man. But like, I was like, I'm going to set up here somewhere and like, just wait for them to get comfortable with me and see if I can get some footage. Cause like, it's just dope. So yeah. Yeah. Good stuff. Good stuff.
00:48:06
Speaker
yeah That's great. I'm so happy to hear. Please share, subscribe, and shout out this podcast episode to all your fellow birders, especially the young folks out there.
00:48:17
Speaker
They need to go to Kojo. Help us spread a little bird joy. Oh, yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you again, sir. Peace, fellas. Thanks, Kojo. Peace, fellas. Thank you so much for having All right.