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Birding the Windy City: Lake Michigan, Gulls, and the Tarik Big Year
841 Plays5 days ago
In this episode of the Bird Joy Podcast, Dexter and Jason are joined by Tarik Shahzad, a Chicago-based birder who made history in 2024 by recording 294 bird species in Cook County, setting a new county record during what’s now known as the Tarik Big Year.
Tarik shares how growing up in Chicago as a birder of Pakistani and Bosnian descent shaped his relationship with nature, identity, and belonging in outdoor spaces. The conversation explores what makes Chicago birding so special from neighborhood green spaces to the unpredictable magic of Lake Michigan and how birding has transformed the way Tarik experiences the city every day.
The episode dives deep into Great Lakes birding, including gull identification, open-water scanning, and the joy of “gull frolics,” as well as the perspective-shifting moment of discovering a Short-tailed Shearwater, a Pacific seabird never before recorded in Illinois. Tarik also reflects on balancing joy and pressure during a Big Year, and how the experience deepened his understanding of conservation through his work in environmental policy with The Nature Conservancy.
The conversation wraps with a look ahead at what’s next for Tarik and a classic Bird Joy lightning round touching on Lake Michigan migration, gulls, and warblers.
Whether you bird the Great Lakes or your local park, this episode is a reminder that wonder is always waiting when you slow down and look closely.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Bird Joy Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to season four of the bird joy podcast. Your host Dexter Patterson and Jason Hall are back with more birds, more bird joy and plenty of laughs along the way.
00:00:11
Speaker
Each episode brings new stories, fun conversations and a whole flock of good vibes. We're happy you're here. We really miss the homies. and we hope you enjoy this season.
00:00:23
Speaker
You ready? Let's go.
Meet Tarek Shahzad: Record-Setting Birder
00:00:25
Speaker
We are back, folks, with another amazing guest, and today's guest reminds us that birding is about more than just checklists.
00:00:33
Speaker
It's about curiosity. It's about place. It's about paying attention. We're joined by Tarek Shahzad. Is that correct, Tarek? Is it Shahzad? That's right. A Chicago-based birder who made history in 2024 by recording 294 bird species in Cook County setting a new county record during what many now call Tarik's big year. Tarik is a birder of Pakistani and Bosnian descent who grew up exploring Chicago's forest preserves, the lakefront, and neighborhood green spaces in just a few
00:01:05
Speaker
Tariq, welcome the Bird Joy Podcast.
Urban Birding in Chicago
00:01:25
Speaker
in his free time he's out watching birds showing what's possible when you look closely at the world
00:01:35
Speaker
well it's a privilege to be with you both thank you very much for inviting me so excited i'm fired up yeah man we were both watching your journey out there on the lakefront bird in the city and both of us have uh you know we both have a soft spot for folks in big cities you know diverse cities trying to get out there and get after birds and find their own version of bird joy so like it was really really special to check that out and we've been talking about you since you did that and trying to find some time to get you on and we knew this was the right season. So thank you again, man, for coming to hang with us.
00:02:06
Speaker
how are you doing today? Well, I'm doing great. I just finished a couple of Christmas bird counts in local parks in Northside Chicago, under birded locations specifically. And so was really excited to take those up. It's the first time our Christmas bird count is public. I think the citywide or at least in Northside,
00:02:21
Speaker
It's completely public. So it's you know it's becoming more and more inclusive over time. And i took up those accounts and I was like, but i can't miss this. So I just took up four parts and then I was on with y'all. Now we appreciate you man. We appreciate you. I'm going to start with kind of the beginning. Come from a really interesting background, Pakistani and Bosnian descent. Likely, I'm guessing, grew up navigating a lot of different cultural identities, right? And norms and being around a big city like Chicago. How did those roots shape you and what did you bring with you into the birding world as you kind of explored some of
Heritage and Passion for Birding
00:02:53
Speaker
that?
00:02:53
Speaker
Yeah, so my parents, you know, they both immigrated here in the ninety s And then they had me, and I was born in Chicago, born and raised. The only time I ever left Chicago was for four years. I went to Middlebury College to get my bachelor's environmental policy. But other than that, I'm born and raised in northwest side of Chicago. east spoke shy town. And ever since i was a little kid, you know, I fell in love with nature at an early age. My dad took me, he would take me fishing at our local pond, which is part of the Forest Preserve of Cook County system. It's one of the oldest forest preserve systems in the entire country, so we have
00:03:25
Speaker
so much land, protected forest land per capita than any other major city in the country. And so we're really blessed and lucky to have forest preserves right outside my old apartment. And Schiller Pond was a place that you know my dad would take fishing.
00:03:39
Speaker
And it's kind of weird to say as now now that I'm a birder, I was a really impatient kid. So instead of, you know, like catching fish with my dad, I'd be like, Dad, this is boring. Give me your net and let me catch frogs and turtles instead. So I started out herping, you know, the the activity of looking for reptiles and amphibians.
00:03:56
Speaker
Um, and I didn't really into- Any salamanders in the mix? Oh, I w- you know what? I think with more ecological restoration, we're going to get more salamanders. But you know, unfortunately because of like buckthorn and like quality of habitat, like we need to do a lot of work in more urbanized forest patches to bring back salamanders.
00:04:12
Speaker
I know in like Southern Cook County, they're doing okay, but I've never seen one in Chicago. So I- Well, I held my first a salamander last spring and I freaked out. So- I, I, yes, I am all in on team salamander. So I'm hoping I can continue to find more of those in my life. My bad. I just, I heard herping and then immediately I started thinking about salamanders. Yeah, we should do a birding and herping trip. I swear. Yeah. that Spring migration will be perfect. You know, and then I, I fell in love with birding just really later in life after I came back to Chicago after college, um, in 2022 is when I started birding and, you than here I am today.
Career in Environmental Policy
00:04:49
Speaker
So, I mean, i what was really important in my upbringing was being exposed to the outdoors and my parents giving me that freedom. And, you know, they had expectations as this immigrant family for me to study hard and do well because they knew how tough life can be and the opportunities that are given. a lot of opportunities are earned, is the way that they would describe it to me. What I decided to do is after high school, I said, i think I want to blend you know my hard work with what I care about, which is the environment. And so that's why I decided to major in environmental policy.
00:05:18
Speaker
you know I could have done like a pre-med track or a pre-law or something else, know just to cash in, so to speak. Right. Mm-hmm. I try to have more like a safe financial future. But my heart was telling me that I love the environment and I want to advocate for it. And my my mom was really supportive of that, especially. And I think that's what guided me into becoming a birder today.
00:05:35
Speaker
That is so cool. I mean, you mentioned, too, you didn't start bird until 2022. So talk to us a little bit. When did birds shift from kind of being in the background? You care about the environment to something that you actively wanted to pay
Beginning Birdwatching Journey
00:05:49
Speaker
attention to. Well, it started with, 2022, my girlfriend saw a couple goldfinches in her yard, and she exclaimed to me, like, wow, these are so beautiful. And I was inspired to get her a pair of binoculars for Christmas. I was like, this is the perfect Christmas gift now, right? And we went to the woods after with her binoculars. Instead of her using the binoculars, we ended up sharing. And then we were trading off, and we were seeing all these birds in the woods we didn't know even existed. Exactly. that was like the beginning of spring something. Oh, love that moment. Yeah. And that's just how, you know, and then from there we go on these local bird walks with, you know, awesome organizations like Chicago Bird Alliance, Chicago Anthological Society.
00:06:29
Speaker
And then like the really personally competitive, you know, I'm really, I have a lot of this innate competitiveness. And like, I, you know, i want to always try to find like, and always create some goals in life when i when I go about different hobbies and tasks and I decided like, let me just see as many birds as I could. And then that's just really what defined my birding.
00:06:50
Speaker
That's really incredible, man. You got to love that. And like, i I mean, I didn't, I didn't realize that 2022, homie, you was just like, I'm a birder now. I'm just going to find all the birds in Chicago. like you just say anyway like The rest of us take like some years to get ready for that. You were like, nah, we going in, we going hard. and yeah Right off the jump. That wild, man.
00:07:09
Speaker
He jumped off. No safety net. You know, it's going down. No bird safe around Tariq, folks. Yeah, that's wild, man. That's that's like super dope. What was like? Tell me what that was like, because like Dexter and I talk a lot about stepping into those new spaces as people of color. Right. And post 2020.
00:07:28
Speaker
all of the social understanding of diversity across this country, you know, had an impact on how at least a lot of communities around big cities viewed accessing the outdoors. So like, what did that feel like going straight into that space? Well, I'm sure you like us interacted with a lot of Caucasian folks, right? That were in there. Like, how did that feel? How that go?
00:07:47
Speaker
How was that journey?
Diversity in Birding Circles
00:07:48
Speaker
The journey, you know, first I was so bird focused that I didn't really think about the people and I wasn't really internalizing like the things I was experiencing and So in like in 2022 and especially going into 2023, when I started rarity chasing and, you know, being part of this, like, like the facet of the hobby, trying to find the rare birds, you know, and and getting in these networks of people communicating about where birds are.
00:08:11
Speaker
I met, you know, I sort of became more ingrained in the Chicago birding community. And at least the more you know competitive listing portions of the community are like more of the stereotypical kind of birder that you would imagine.
00:08:25
Speaker
Right. And for Chicago being such a diverse and multifaceted city, you know, I would say that part of Chicago birding doesn't reflect the city at large, unfortunately. And I, I only recognized a couple months in ah that I was,
00:08:43
Speaker
I was the aberrance, right? I was the, I was the rare bird almost. And so I i remember, i remember experiencing like some, maybe from not just a small subset of the community, I would experience some sort of like maybe condescension or, you know, questioning sort of like a prodding as to like what my intent is.
00:09:09
Speaker
Why is why am I present? Who am I? um And and i it only only through like really hard work and having to prove myself and my skills that I feel like I was more accepted into that more smaller subset of the community.
00:09:26
Speaker
But generally speaking, what I really liked about Chicago birding is that, you know, people are generally very inclusive. And over to over the past few years, it's accelerated into being a more diverse diverse group.
00:09:38
Speaker
Love it. Love it.
Social Aspects of Birding
00:09:40
Speaker
Shout out to the Chicago homies. yeah Let's talk a little bit why that Chicago birding hits a little different. um What do you love most about birding in Chicago compared to more traditional birding destinations like in the city area? Urban birding, you know,
00:09:57
Speaker
us three, you know, we we do so much urban birding. It's really like the the people component is is the most special part to me. It's, I like to say, you know, when people ask me, how how do I get started in birding? And, you know, like, how how do I stay engaged with the hobby? You know, so much of it is the people component. and And what I like to say, birding with a buddy. And in creating those friendships and relationships, and as someone who's like ah a county lister, you know, I like i like to see as many different different birds as I can in in Cook County proper. It's one of the largest counties in the state of Illinois land wise. And so like, I've done a lot of travel, you know, if the the Northern part of the County is completely different from the Southern part, you know, and the more urbanized places are a lot different than the more suburban places. And so in the urban parts of, of Chicago birding, you really get this like,
00:10:41
Speaker
a melting pot of different folks. So like different personal personalities and folks from different backgrounds, different ah different age groups. You know, sometimes I'm birding with my BIPOC birder homies from Chicago BIPOC birders. um Other times I'm on a Chicago bird alliance walk and I'm leading ah leading something that's like really niche. um Other times I'm like on the north side and I'm birding with like Evanston North Shore Bird Club. And like there's every time it's like a different kind of audience.
00:11:06
Speaker
And so like my network really expanded and I just like I think my network expanded like 10 X since I've started birding in Chicago as have, as has ah my life list. That's really incredible. And like, I, you know, just that now you have, you've gone through so many different layers of, or I'll say different aspects of journeys that birders go through in such a short period of time, right? Like,
00:11:30
Speaker
We all, I think at some point fall into the heavy listing, you know, and and we got to pull ourselves back out at some point. But you also have like a community. You just mentioned three groups there, right?
00:11:42
Speaker
How has that changed how you experience the city, right? Like I have a tough time going around Philly. Like every spot I see, every little pocket garden, I'm like, oh, you know what they need? They need ah a thistle sock in there because we got to get some gold fences, you know, or...
00:11:57
Speaker
Or if I'm downtown, I'm looking and if I see a big flock of pigeons, I'm like, where's the peregrine at though? Cause I know it's down here, right? I i know it is cause I know where they're all sighted. I'm like, I can't exist in Philly proper, like in the downtown or the urban areas without still birding.
00:12:13
Speaker
Is it, is it, is it the same for you? Like, do you like find yourself in spaces that you used to be in, but you never really birded and you're like, oh, okay, this is still like another layer I have to do. Absolutely. um And it's,
00:12:25
Speaker
Like i'm and I'm at my office in the Wrigley building in downtown Chicago, 11 floors up. um And I just have my binoculars at my desk. And anytime I have like a free moment, I like to just scan the buildings and find the Peregrine Falcon because we have Peregrine Falcons throughout Chicago. And, you know, so much of it is like, yes, like there's different like types of communities.
00:12:44
Speaker
in Chicago, you know, and there's more, there's, there's places that have gotten a lot of attention and then hotspots that don't get enough attention for a lot of equity ah concerns. And one thing that I found is like throughout, you know, these different groups that I sort of phase in and out of depending on where I am birding in the city. What's so awesome is like this collective unifying goal of restoration and bringing birds back and protecting the birds.
00:13:10
Speaker
And that, you know, that that bird joy is shared. I think that's what's really special. That's that commonality that brings people together. And, you know, we do have our differences and, um you know, we come from different walks of life and Uh, you know, we're in literally different parts of the city. Like I, I, and you know, it's so sometimes it's difficult for my friends in Hyde park to get, to meet me up in, in Rogers park, for example, in Chicago, yeah you know, there are even these like structural barriers for, for folks. One common thing is every time I'm burning with these people, it's like,
00:13:38
Speaker
look at this habitat, we could improve it. And here's how we bring birds back and let's go out birding on these peak migration days. like Everyone has like sort of the same collective unified vision of of Chicago and making it more of a birdie city. and That's why we're that's why we have so many birders here, especially.
00:13:55
Speaker
Y'all got like a Chicago hive mind going on. over there Hyde Park. I got to give a big shout out to the Hyde Park homies, Call and Response Books, the homie Carlos from the Chicago BIPOC birders and his wonderful wife. So if you're looking for a great bookstore owned by a black woman, go check them out. Call and Response Books in Hyde Park. They were the first stop on the Birds of the Great Lakes book tour, actually. So special place in your boy's heart. So shout out to those homies over there.
Competitive Birdwatching Goals
00:14:25
Speaker
Tarek, we got to jump into it, man. We got to go big and talk about your big year. As you were going into 2024, you're literally only two years into this thing. You talked about being hyper competitive and and wanting to see as many birds as possible. You're going out, you're finding rare birds. And I find that fascinating. Because you're just getting started. And one thing about burning is it can be very intimidating because there is so much to learn. I have to think that that kind of fed into your competitiveness at some way. But what was that original goal before it turned into a record setting year in 2024? Yeah, you know, that's a fantastic question. In 2023, like 200 and maybe 20-ish birds in Cook County. So like I did already a lot of chasing. I didn't call it a big year.
00:15:11
Speaker
um And I just, you know, I tried to find as many common birds as I could. And then with work permitting and and and personal life permitting, I chased some rare birds. i didn't I don't think I haven't found any of my own in 2023.
00:15:22
Speaker
And then I was like, okay, I think I got the i got i got the groove. in So in in December 2023, I decided, let let me just make a spreadsheet of all the birds ever he reported in Crook County history on eBird.
00:15:35
Speaker
And then like categorize them by like easy, medium, and hard. And just like, me do theory crafting and like, how many could I see? And then I looked at all the, I looked at the all time Cook County big years and I, 280 would have put me as top 10 all time.
00:15:53
Speaker
And so that was my goal entering twenty twenty four January 1, I was telling people I'm doing a Cook County big year. I didn't have like an intention necessarily to break the record. But 280 was still ambitious, but tempered yet tempered to me because I had to balance my my my job and my personal life. And plus, I was still new to this thing.
00:16:13
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean, that's, man, you said a spreadsheet. That was music to my ears. was like, yes, organize it, have a plan. I didn't have that when I tried my first county big year and I was exhausted at the end of it. So it's interesting to hear, like, as you were, so it sounds like you let folks know from the jump, like, yo, we are doing this. I'm doing this, right? When did you realize folks were following and paying attention and like, oh, okay, this homie is serious out here. Like, when did you know? Well, I think my my friends, the connections I made like in 2023, my closest friends and confidants, like those folks, they knew from the start. like and i I developed some really awesome friendships with people like Phil Stossberg and Damon McDonald. like those Those two guys were my left and right wing on this like bird, which broke the record. you know like They were my right-hand guys.
00:17:02
Speaker
you know They knew from the start and they were helping me out. And then other folks... sort of like more acquaintances, just burgers I knew, but I wasn't really friends with yet. They caught on, i would say like halfway through the year.
00:17:14
Speaker
And, you know, because when you hit the halfway point, you've already seen the majority of your birds. In fact, sometimes vast majority, like up to like 80% plus. So really the second half of the year is you're just like scraping the few birds that you missed that you can hope to get again in the fall.
00:17:32
Speaker
And then plus those like big rarities that happen in fall migration. So like, I think by June 1st, I had seen 270. I only saw 24 more birds since June 1st. So like the first half of the year is like full on sprint. And then the second half is a marathon and people birders who've done big years and like are really experienced in county listing and just listing in general, they tuned in for the marathon.
Joy and Surprises in Birdwatching
00:17:59
Speaker
Like they didn't recognize that the sprint was happening. Right.
00:18:02
Speaker
Yeah. That makes sense. That makes sense. I always tell people, you know, my big focus, obviously you're on the bird joy podcast. Our big focus is to spread bird joy. And I always tell people, I noticed that sometimes when people get too focused on a list, they start to lose their joy. Talk to me about how you keep your joy as somebody that did a list and you know, will you do another one? Has anybody broken your record?
00:18:28
Speaker
Is it still standing? Um, yeah. So, so that's exciting news. I couldn't, I can share like in a minute. after I really like to like for on the, on the point of like, how do I maintain the joy throughout the big year? Because it is grueling. Like Jason said, you know, on your, on your county big year, like it it can be grueling, like physically and mentally exhausting as much as you love the birds.
00:18:49
Speaker
Um, and for me, it's, I get this like profound joy out of seeing, finding a bird, um, that is really uncommon, unexpected, sort of like, like a black swan, something out of place, ugly duckling, so to speak, you know, something that's like, it's so it's typically goes unnoticed. And for me, I love highlighting that bird and finding finding um like the needle in the haystack and like that, and then sharing that experience with other people.
00:19:19
Speaker
And then, you know, creating creating a moment out of that that can like that that can serve as a memory for a lifetime. It's not just a checkmark for you. It's literally an experience that brings you joy. And then you compound that joy by sharing that joy with other people.
00:19:34
Speaker
Absolutely. Like the number, one of the rules when we find a a rare bird, i mean, it's just in general with listing, but especially in Cook County is we, we, so we stay on the bird for other folks. Yeah. Like, Oh, I see a Thompson solitaire. All right. Like I'm going to photograph and enjoy it. And then I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to like cancel my 4 PM date night with my girlfriend and I'm going to sit here for an hour and wait for the first person to arrive and keep my eyes on the bird. So other people can experience this joy too. Wow. And then likewise with like, ah so much of it is not only finding these birds and experiencing them, but it's the process of getting to the bird. And on a big year that takes like hours and hours of lake watching, sky watching, exploring different habitats. That portion, it's like the lead up.
00:20:18
Speaker
But it's also you get to share those experiences with other people. Like I wouldn't be able to do eight hour lake watches as much as I love Lake Michigan. Sometimes like it it could be a really slow day in terms of bird movement, but it's having the homies with me. burning And yeah us sharing stories and us bouncing ideas off each other while we're lake watching is what gets me through the eight hours. And then seven hours in, we get something cool.
00:20:41
Speaker
That adds to the whole ambiance. This is great. This is so good. It's music to our ears, man. Yeah, man. Like anyone that's a birder has experienced this, right? Like, especially if you're chasing something and you have to wait around for it. I really enjoy the fact that it really, we you know, Dexter and I have talked about this, like seeing a good bird is cool.
00:21:03
Speaker
seeing a good bird and sharing it with other people you care about is like untouchable. yeah this It's it like, it gives me goosebumps right now thinking about it. Right. And like, and it does take effort, right? Sometimes you have to try to stay on the bird to get folks on it. I know there's people that don't do that all the time. Right. And it sucks. Right. Cause it's like, Oh man, you couldn't stay for like 20 more minutes, but you know, people got lives and stuff, but you mentioned, um, you mentioned Lake Michigan and being out there. And like, I, I,
00:21:34
Speaker
I envy all of you Great Lakes folks and all of your big bodies of water. Like I can drive to Jersey. It takes me a couple of hours, but it's not the same. Like Lake Michigan seems like it's critical to your story. Tell us about your relationship. What keeps pulling you back there?
Connection to Lake Michigan
00:21:51
Speaker
Well, Lake Michigan, i to me, it's like, it's, it's such a spiritual body of water. you know, it, it, It is our most important source of drinking water for everyone.
00:22:01
Speaker
it's's It's publicly accessible. you know The lakefront is for everyone. And that's what's so awesome about Chicago too, is so much of the lakefront isn't private. It's public access, right? And we have this really cool lakefront trail and we have Chicago parks like dotted all across from North to South. um And, you know all those places are publicly accessible for people and nature. To me, that's,
00:22:21
Speaker
that that isn't the same if you go south into indiana or into the northern suburbs of cook county and lake county and so that's our contrast means more people can connect with lake michigan and um you know we rely on it for our health uh it's so important ecologically for for for birds and for the wildlife we love and it this was that that was like a newfo That was a newfound realization for me. you know I understood the the value of it in terms of like my drinking water. that's That's where my tap water comes from. and like when i started When I started the big year, and especially like going into the fall, I had to find a lot of like vagrant seabirds.
00:23:00
Speaker
These birds come all the way up from the Arctic. Some of them migrate through the Great Lakes system, and they're using our body of water traverse 5,000 plus miles and they're they're gonna you know they they they rely on that on Lake Michigan for respite and refuel. And you know these like majestic, otherworldly beings, they're like, hey, I'm going to take a break here.
00:23:21
Speaker
i'm going to give you a glimpse of my majesty and then I'm going to head off. and And like, what's so cool about Lake Michigan is like, we had those like, like Jaegers or Sabins, like the rarest of rare birds are just on this really, really important body of water. so like Y'all just is blown just talking about it. The joy popping out of the homie right now has got me fired up. Like, I mean, that is that is joy that is fired. I'm clipping that for sure. I got to clip that. this Bro, this, man, you have me. Like, I'm trying to go birding right now. Me too, man. Let's throw these headphones off and run outside. like Jesus. well go I mean, I know every time I go to Milwaukee and I get the bird on the lakefront there in Milwaukee, i just some of my best birding memories are on Lake Michigan. So I get what you're saying. And that through line in Milwaukee here is amazing. As I was putting together Birds of the Great Lakes, I was like, we are so lucky. It is insane how lucky we are in this region and the bodies of water around us as the birds are coming through and migrating. And they just like say, you know, I'm going to take, like you said, don't take a little pit stop right here and let you look at me. Look how special I am. oh This is so crazy. But I don't think people realize that when you're looking at Lake Michigan, it looks like a sea. Right. Like it looks like you're at an ocean. Like my brain still, I still can't comprehend like this is a lake.
00:24:53
Speaker
You know, like I'm always just like, this is a lake. We had winds the other day and there's 35 foot waves and stuff in ah in a lake. you And I'm just it kind of blows me away. um For somebody new to Great Lakes Birding, what type of mindset do you think they should have when they're scanning open water like that?
Birdwatching Techniques on Lake Michigan
00:25:11
Speaker
Well, it. And what's so great about, you know, birding in Chicago and with Lake Michigan is the lake will change, the birds will change based on the season. So like your approach, I think, can can always be, is is always different depending on the time of year. In wintertime, ah the birds will usually sit still. there's a lot of ducks just wintering on Lake Michigan, thousands upon thousands of ducks, especially at the bottom end of the lake.
00:25:36
Speaker
We have like sometimes flights of over 10,000 red breasted mergansas and then just hit the bottom of the lake and it's been all year there. And we have redheads and scoff and these really cool diving ducks and athea.
00:25:47
Speaker
So that's like, that's winter time. And so, you know, get, get out your spotting scope and your binoculars and you can even bring out, bring out a chair and like count the ducks and, See how they're all different from each other and watch them dive and feed. It's so cool and congregate together and then flush when a bald eagle comes through.
00:26:03
Speaker
And so that's like that's that's for the winter. And then spring and fall, you're seeing a lot of flight on the lake. And so there's birds moving up and down, you know, in the spring, they're moving up. Like loons are are coming up in their beautiful breeding plumage. Like they're in this like full black head, black with a white necklace and this like contrasting white body, the striking birds moving with their spear like bill north. You can get flights of dozens of loons in the spring.
00:26:27
Speaker
And then likewise in the fall, they're coming back a little bit more gray, having just had you know hatched their young. And that's that's what's happening simultaneous in the reverse of the fall and they're heading south.
00:26:39
Speaker
So in the spring, you're looking right to left. And in the in the fall, you're looking left to right. But other than that, the birds are always moving. And in the summer, we have birds on the lake, but it's ah mostly just our herring gulls and our ring-billed gulls, which are breeding nearby. But sometimes you can find like a really cool bird on the lake in the summer. Normally, I would like to, I recommend looking at the shore more in the summer. ah But yeah, Lake Michigan is like, just like you said about the waves, like on some days, the waves are intense and other days arere not. And so it's all about the winds and the and the time of year. Listen, i heard you mention a lot of birds on there and it sounds incredible. And I i just reiterate my ah envy for you all. But there's a type of bird on there you didn't really you didn't really mention that, you know, and I feel some type of way about it, you know, like, so tell me about the gulls, homie. Like what's going on?
00:27:30
Speaker
What's going on with the goals? Cause you know, your boy, i got questions, right? How did you, how did you fall into some goal joy? Where did that appreciation come from for you?
00:27:42
Speaker
Part of birding for me is the, is like this, it's like us falling into falling in love with the specific type of activity in birding or like a specific kind of bird or the complexity of it.
00:27:55
Speaker
And as we know, gulls are some of the most complex birds on Earth. You know, they're on on the tier list of like easy versus difficult to identify. They're all the way at top. They're like or S tier. Like, you know, this is something that's going to require years of your dedication. And like, even then you're still an amateur and you need to like text Amar Ayash, right?
00:28:17
Speaker
So everybody in the country, like text Amar. I think that's like a thousand DMs a day. Poor guy. oh man That's what happens when you're America's leading gull expert. hey listen But so so like the gulls, I finished a big year and i and after completing it and breaking the record, I realized like, okay, I i actually don't know my birds as much as as much as i as I could and I'm going to learn so much more and I'm still surface level with gulls. And I did that with breaking the county record um because
00:28:49
Speaker
That's just how complex these birds are. that' That's why, like, you know, Dexter, the golf frolic. I met you there last year and then you're going to be speaking there, you know, in 2026. I'm going there. It's going to be my third year attending.
00:29:04
Speaker
And honestly, I'll probably have the most rudimentary knowledge compared to most attendees who've been there for decades. Even some of those people have to talk to Amar and be like, hey, so is this like a third cycle Thayer's goal?
00:29:18
Speaker
And like these things are just so incredibly complex and and and we're trying to interpret them, right? That's a special thing. Bro, I was there last year and I was blown away. I was like, people are IDing, you know, kumlings on the wing and I'm like, they're like, I'm like, who are you people? You know, I was like, this is insane. But I'm sitting there realizing similar to Tariq, like I tell people all the time, I think that's what I love most about burning is like, I always realized that don't know nothing. And I'm always learning and i I am a lifelong learner. Like I feed off of that. um So goals are one of those things where, you know what I got? don't know how, you know, how long I got on this earth, but all that time I got, I can spend on learning about goals because that's how crazy they are. So I always got something to look forward to. And that was that. That experience, I told you, Jason, about it. Like, you got me paying attention to goals more. You got me to go to that dang goal frolic because I it was like, man, got to go see what these goals are about. It's a driving distance, man. You got like, I was like, I got to go check this out. So I go there. It is the coldest day of the year. And I was like, okay, first of all, these are my people.
00:30:28
Speaker
Like that was the moment where I was like, people that love goals, dirt you're my people. Because I'm like, it is so cold and you're still out here laughing and having a great time, and goals. I was like, so that was like number one off the checklist. I was like, yep, I found my people. Then I started meeting new people like Tark. I met you for the first time. I met Eric, who was with Chicago BIPOC Brothers. He moved to Cali to do his residency. You know, yeah yeah he's super fancy. But that that was that next level. And then I met Amar as well. And I but had bought his book as I was preparing for the trip. And he was so nice. And like everybody was so nice. And I was like, this is fantastic. um So I had so many great memories. I've said, I don't know how many lifers that day. I want to say at least three or four. So it was just like such a memorable experience. And I was like, I'm going back. I'm going back. I didn't even know if I was speaking there or not. But I was like, I'm going to hang out with Tariq. I'm going to hang out with Amar and all the gold homies down there. so I'm super excited about that. What's your favorite? You said that was your third year. What's your favorite gold frolic memory?
00:31:35
Speaker
It was... In 2024, first year or second year, but we had a California gull, a second or a third cycle. See, I don't remember the age of the bird.
00:31:46
Speaker
I was a statewide rare bird alert. And California gulls are from the Western part of the continent. They can, I think they can be found along the coastline, but you know, they're a little bit more inland, but they don't typically like go east of like Kansas. And so it was like, it was a really rare bird. This really storied Cook County birder named Jeff Williamson and I, we were together in the evening. you know, most folks had left by then and there was only a small group of us and Jeff and I are just talking about the gulls and him and I spot the the Cali gull and and we're like,
00:32:15
Speaker
this is a weird looking herring gull. And he's like, yeah, it is weird. And we're just like photographing it for a couple of minutes. And we're like, it has a dark eye. and And we're just like talking about it. And then like five minutes later, this gull savant named Woody Goss goes, California gull. And it's the bird. And and we needed like 20 sets of eyes just to ID this one bird.
00:32:38
Speaker
And then you have to have like really experienced people sort of overlap in opinions. just to like figure out what this is. And then these goals just like, other than that, they're like blending in with each other. They're just hanging They're being a family. They're just trying to survive the winter.
00:32:55
Speaker
and um And then you have this odd one out and it it can it can totally skip us by if if we don't like put in the time and the effort and and lean on other people and that knowledge. And like, even if you have so much experience, like that humility is so important to like, you know, ask for help and for input.
00:33:12
Speaker
And that's what I really learned from that golf rollout day. So that California goal really stuck out to me. And to this day, I i can't confidently ID young California goal. I would need to like have a look in front of me. um And there's no shame in saying that, you know, like maybe one day I will. But until then, I'm going to lean on experts.
Challenge of Identifying Gulls
00:33:31
Speaker
I love it. That's community, man. That's community. I see that in the Facebook group, too, that Amar has curated and all the folks that help with that. amount of people that. Ask questions and then you go to those comments, bro. You know how much I've learned just reading people's comments and stuff? That's community. So shout out to all the the goal people out there that that actually look into it. think goals are the perfect bird for community, if you really think about it, because they are so hard. I mean, you got people that are experts that sometimes are like, I don't know. Right. And like that is the coolest thing. And i always tell people the birders that think they know everything are the worst birders. So I shout out to goalers, people that pay attention to goals because like they are proof. It's okay not to know something. It's okay. Like there's nothing wrong with that. So.
00:34:22
Speaker
Yeah, and forces you to talk to other people. One thing I love about gulls that, you know, I think it's so silly is that unlike it's not like we're in the Amazon rainforest and we're getting a fleeting look at like a tapakulo and it didn't it didn't it didn't vocalize. and we're like, so which tapakulo was it?
00:34:36
Speaker
And so it just barely gave the ah gave us a look of like a group of 20 persons. Instead, like you have these gulls just sitting in front of us, like they're just going to open their wing, a 180 like, all right, this is who I am.
00:34:51
Speaker
yeah And they're gonna vocalize for us. And then we'll just be stumped. And like, it'll just sit there pretty. um And that's that's the difference is like, you know, when you go, when you look at warblers, one of the tricky parts about warblers is that they're so jumpy. And like, you know, they just, they got they gotta to feed, you know, they're focused on ah fueling up for their big migratory journeys. And there are these tiny little cute, cute birds up in the canopy. And, you know, they're blending in with the trees, but gulps will be right on the open. You know, as Amar talks about it, and you can find them in like a, in like a Walmart parking lot.
00:35:20
Speaker
That's right. and But they're still anikmas to us. And so that's what makes them like, when you when you describe the like the difficulty of it of it of it to a non-birder, it like kind of adds to the the the mysticism of of birding. Oh, yeah, yeah. It absolutely does. But it's but it's a puzzle. And if you like puzzles, like and they're there, and like the worst part about gulls is when they decide to sleep and they like fold their head over and you can't see nothing. You can't see the eyes and legs. And you're like, I can only see a great mantle. I got no wingtips. I got no tail. I got nothing. you know
00:35:50
Speaker
And like I think that is just so cool. And like y'all going to have to stop me because this whole episode ended up about gulls. So I'm going to try I'm going to try to shift gears here, right? But like going from a community where you're sitting out in the cold with people looking at tens of thousands of gulls and enjoying yourself to what I would say is one of the most interesting experiences for any birder. And I think all three of us has felt and that's finding a rare bird yourself.
00:36:14
Speaker
So you pulled out of a hat. a short tail Shearwater. Tell me about this experience and what did that change for you as a
Discovery of Rare Short-Tailed Shearwater
00:36:24
Speaker
birder? So I'll begin with, it was getting down to the wire.
00:36:27
Speaker
I saw the bird on December 8th, 2024. And so I had tied the record on Thanksgiving day with a golden eagle and everyone was telling me, okay, you should break it with a red pole that it will hopefully come down or a glaucus gull. And I never saw either. um The winter didn't get cold enough until January for a glaucus gull to show up there like ice. really like December 8th was a like 40 something degree which I wasn't happy with. i wanted to get cold and freeze over. And so my burning gut was telling me like, I have to find like a Townsend solitaire or like a very thrush, like a really like a Western passerine or something. There's no way I'm going to find like ah a Glock. I was just going to show up back against the wall.
00:37:03
Speaker
The sheer water really reminded me what birding is all about. And it's, it's the bird is part of this bigger story. And so like, I saw the bird with my two favorite birding buddies that I mentioned earlier, Daman McDonald and Phil Stotsberg. We were walking down Montrose Pier. after someone had reported white wing crossbills at Montrose. And we all three, all three of us needed that. And then we arrive an hour later and unfortunately they were gone. And so we decided, let's just walk to the end of the pier and let's see if we can spot a Glock, a scholar, a blacklight kitty wake, something for all all of us. And we're walking down the pier and I just see this really dark,
00:37:39
Speaker
sort of, I knew it was a seabird right when I saw it. I was like, I don't think that's a herring gull and it's coming towards us. no my my My gut reaction was juvenile parasitic Jaeger, which are like pretty brown overall.
00:37:53
Speaker
And then I noticed like it wasn't flapping its wings much and it was coming closer. And I just shout to my two friends behind me. They're like 10 feet behind me. I'm like, guys, seabird is barreling towards us. Like ready your cameras. because It just comes towards us and then it banks out. And as it's banking, we're getting these shots and we're looking at the photos like 15 seconds after it's already 200 feet away, going straight into the middle of the lake. We see his photos and we're like, the the face of this bird is a tube nose face, right? Of that order of birds, of the taxonomic order. And then, you know, we we know it's a shear water of some kind, but none of us, I don't think I'd ever seen a shear water before in our lives. And the...
00:38:31
Speaker
the you know, when I say this broader story, like so much of the shear water has to do with like this global phenomenon that's happening, climate change. There had been, i think, two or three short tail shear waters that had already been seen on the Great Lakes system prior to that Lake Michigan day.
00:38:47
Speaker
So that's also how we were like pretty sure it wasn't an escaped zoo bird. But like... And so it's because of likely scientists are positing the um the shrinking of Arctic sea ice in the north that you know seabirds can become more vagrant and you know they they can get more lost with more opening open water passageways. and And so like the month before, I think one was seen on Superior. And then it was a Wisconsin record and Ashland from was on superior. And then either Huron or Ontario was the other bird. So like people knew that, okay, short till shore waters are somehow in the great lake system. And then ours was the first like Michigan record, but it's like, it's that part of the big year and and it being like the miracle bird that like for me that experience, but it's also like,
00:39:30
Speaker
That bird is part of a bigger story. It's telling us something like this. This this bird is speaking to us, even though it's not vocalizing. Right. That like yeah the environment's changing. And, you know, I think we have the power to to to you know act on that.
00:39:44
Speaker
Wow. So that that bird connected to what you love, the environment as well. So hearing you talk about climate change and. Birding as a whole, your big year, how has it, you touched on this a little bit, and think this is fascinating. How has it helped to deepen your understanding of conservation through your policy work, but also the work you put in as a birder?
Linking Birding to Environmental Policy
00:40:06
Speaker
There's um there's a hotspot in Southeast Chicago called Big Marsh.
00:40:11
Speaker
And the the hotspot, it's being restored over time. It's a really important stopover spot for for waterfowl and a breeding location for marsh birds. So I love going there in the summer and and hearing Sora on Virginia Rail. It's a tricky location because when it was initially being restored, the water levels were much lower. And so mudflats were exposed and they would get like every fall Hudsonian and Marbled Godwitz, which is a really rare shorebird species. And, you know, those birds are not using that for wintering habitat or summering habitat. They're just using it as a quick stopover, right? But those are birds in decline. And now that the water levels are higher, those mudflats don't exist. So that's one thing.
00:40:52
Speaker
less place for vulnerable shorebirds to find respite. But now instead, waterfowl are using that location. And now it's better marsh habitat. And so like the way that now that I work in environmental policy and like I'm engaging with government officials and and agencies, decisions that are made, you know, sometimes we make a decision that we think is going to be you know generally good for X environmental reason. and then it has like Y outcome that is, it's it's a give and take sometimes with the environment is that that's what restoration is. It's like we get to, if we if we, for example, develop a site into a prairie and then it's not going to be a wetland.
00:41:31
Speaker
So like we're making these active decisions that have really that have huge impacts on the ecosystem and they take time. So like if I if we were to like advocate for more wetland habitat or like more a mud flat habitat, lower water levels in certain locations, that could take a long, long time. And as someone who you know did the big year, you can't just get that in a single year and then just and then just like bring about the birds that you want.
00:41:57
Speaker
um So much of it is like investment and working with partners, It's a journey of a thousand miles really. And it's important to like keep progressing and and build upon victories. ah But recognizing that like the change the change takes time. That's been one of the most humbling experiences for me.
00:42:14
Speaker
Working in environmental policy space is like sometimes we can pass a really big climate bill in Illinois and then like have great projections on our climate emissions. And then other times like our wetlands are in trouble and we're still having we're still having like a conundrum of like how do we protect wetlands in the state of Illinois? so Time for me is the component. you know These things take time and patience is really required. Wow. Thank you for that. There's a lot of people out there like you that are trying to do this work local, county, state, federal level. right And it really, it's good to hear this very clear through line from literally bird joy of spotting a shear water to now we need to go talk to these public officials about this wetland they're about to destroy downtown or along the shoreline. right like Those are two very interconnected things and it's it's more difficult. think we need to get people more in a space where their mind knows that that's possible, right? They're not two separate things. And that's, that's,
Plans for a Second Big Year
00:43:03
Speaker
that's really awesome. So you did the big year. It's behind you.
00:43:07
Speaker
You know, I don't know if you took some time to rest or not, but like, what is, what is calling you next? You know, like what's, What is happening in your birding world next? I guess I have to share this at the end, like, even though we're towards the end of the episode, that I took a break for the first few months of 2025. And then i fell back into this sort of, like, competitive mode of, like, a child and all these rare birds.
00:43:34
Speaker
And I just had so much fun being outside. And like I found a cattle egret flying over Lake Michigan. and oh boy. my One of my mentors found a war-meaning warbler in his in his courtyard and called me over. man. was like 10 feet from war-meaning warbler out in the open.
00:43:49
Speaker
And so I had these amazing birding experiences. when In the middle of summer, I i asked my girlfriend, like what if I did this again? Yeah. And I was on pace to at least break 290.
00:44:00
Speaker
And I'm like, there's going to be like a sacrifice component here where like I'm going to be spending less time on my personal life and spending all my free time as much as I can on birds again.
00:44:10
Speaker
And she's like, we're already halfway through the year. And just make sure you don't embarrass yourself is what she's like. She was like, she lit that fire. Put your boy pants on,
00:44:26
Speaker
and im like And she's like, can you guarantee you're going to break the record again And I told her, I can't guarantee, but I think I can break 290. And yeah she said, well, you know, you have my blessing. Like, what what do you what do you want to do with the rest of this year? And I support you, whatever you're going to do And so i I went forward a second time.
00:44:43
Speaker
So I'm sorry. i like this is This is big news to share at the at the end of our chat. and But yeah, I'm finishing off ah a second Cook County big year. We're the 21st of December. And so it's only a few more days left in the year. And i'm at 295 birds. Wow. Let's go. Let's go. Congratulations, man. All right.
00:45:04
Speaker
Listen, listen, homie. Listen. I don't know if you have. Look, I live in Philly. That's so cool. Like we watch we watch Rocky, right? And in Rocky 2, there's this scene where he doesn't want to go fight Apollo Creed again because his wife's in the hospital. She just had the baby and he's struggling mentally.
00:45:21
Speaker
And she finally wakes up from a coma and he goes, what do you want me to do? And she just whispers, when? That's what I feel like. and realize You got to go watch that scene with your girlfriend because when she was like, don't embarrass yourself, get after it. I just heard the Rocky music start playing in my head and I was like, oh, homie went wild. Like, go check that out. Cause that's, that is, that is you too. And I love that. I love that relationship, man. That's so awesome that you shared that. And it really low key having somebody that supports your passion like that is really special. So I'm happy for y'all, man. That's awesome. Thank you. Wow.
00:45:55
Speaker
Thank you all. And, you know, I want to say, like, I guess 2026 is the right way to answer that to your question, Jason. it like I'm going to really take it slower. But also, you know, one thing I will admit about doing two back to back Cook County big years is i I wouldn't have seen a fraction of my birds with without other other people, like not only their knowledge, but some of their sightings as well. um And they're really my mentors. And it's a collective it's a county big year. It's our record.
00:46:19
Speaker
and And so I owe it to other people. And i i feel like I took so much and I did find rare birds and and shared that joy with other people. 2026, I want to lead more walks and events for Chicago BIPOC birders and for Chicago Bird Alliance, North Shore Epperson Bird Club.
00:46:36
Speaker
I'd be more present and slow and methodical with my birding, not rushing all over the place. Like for example, I could be out right now finding my 296th bird. But now that I've sort of found peace with my goals and my effort, I would much rather spend my time being enriched with other people on like the other facets of birding. And so like, that's why it's a huge privilege to you know be chatting with y'all today. But that's just like one example. In 2026, I plan on spending instead of my weekends,
00:47:05
Speaker
just rushing between hotspot and hotspot and trying to find rare birds is leading folks on one day to a underbirded location and just enjoying every single bird at their own pace and and not not putting this like human imposition of this is the pace I need to go at because I need to find X or Y bird, but taking it as methodical as possible.
00:47:26
Speaker
Awesome, man. You deserve that. You deserve
Future Focus on Community Engagement
00:47:29
Speaker
that, man. This has been so great. I can't think of a better transition into our lightning round, Jay. I cannot, man. Let's go. Let's go. So we're going to our lightning round. First thing that comes to your mind when we ask you these questions. All right. Okay.
00:47:44
Speaker
Lake Michigan in spring or fall? Fall. All right. now this is a hard one. Goals or warblers? Goals. All right. All right. Binoculars or spotting scope?
00:47:56
Speaker
Ooh, binoculars. I think I know this answer. Solo birding or birding with friends? Birding with friends. Most underrated bird you've seen in Chicago? Bell's Vireo. Ooh, I love those. All right. Okay.
00:48:10
Speaker
Most chaotic birding moment during the big year? Either one. That's right. Long-tailed Jaeger both times. Out on a bow in Lake Michigan, you know, really distant Jaeger. And we don't know exactly what it is. We're getting these photographs. We're trying to decide the identification. Really difficult idea. Jaegers. And it turned out to be long-tailed.
00:48:29
Speaker
Fourth county record, 2024. Fifth county record, 2025. One bird you missed that still haunts you. Oh, in 2024, was glaucus gall. It was a huge miss.
00:48:41
Speaker
um And in 2025, redneck grebe, which is a rare bird, but i really um i got I got all the common birds this year. so it was a difference between last year. Okay. Bird that gave you the biggest adrenaline rush in either big year?
00:48:53
Speaker
um I would say Golden Eagle in 2024 was my bird to tie it more so than the Shearwater because the Shearwater then set in until later on. I think it like hit me the day after like whoa that actually happened. But the Golden Eagle in person looking I was in a cemetery birding hoping for one falling flocks handle cranes. And the bird absolutely shocked me. It was the first time anyone had ever gotten a golden eagle on a Cook County Big Ear. There were very few records before then. It's assumed to be a really rare, really rare bird. ah But now we're realizing if we put our eyes to the sky, ah they're not as rare as we think. Love it.
00:49:29
Speaker
One place in Chicago that instantly feels like home when you're birding. Ooh, park 566. I get to see the Chicago skyline, prairie birds that are, some are state endangered. has produced some of the rarest birds on on my 2024 big year, my first record-breaking big year. And it's where I spent some of the most amount of time with some of my best birding friends like Phil and Daman. Wow, wow, wow, wow. This has been so good, bro. I told you Tarek was the man Yeah, yeah, man. Tarek, thank you.
00:49:59
Speaker
so much for being with us today, homie. Like this was a really incredible conversation. Like I feel like, I feel like an adopted Chicago birder right now. Like I feel like, I feel like I got a little bit of that Great Lakes sprinkle on me, you know, and I'm looking forward to maybe getting out there with y'all sometime soon. So listen, man, thank you again. We love having you here. We love hearing these stories. We hope our audience really, really appreciates hearing how you weave together all these different experiences over literally just like the last three, three and a half years as a birder. Yes. It's a really special picture. So thanks again, sir. Thank you both. It was real privilege.
00:50:34
Speaker
Yeah, it was so good chatting with you, bro. And everybody out there, make sure you share story, this episode with your fellow birders. And don't forget to subscribe the Bird Joy podcast because you get to hear this type of stuff every single week during our season.
00:50:51
Speaker
So thank you, Tart, so much. Now go get $2.96. Let's go.