Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Color in the Outdoors: A Heartfelt Conversation with Christopher Kilgour
754 Plays23 days ago
In this powerful season finale of Bird Joy, Dexter and Jason sit down with their brother and longtime collaborator, Christopher Kilgour, a transformative leader in the outdoor community. Chris is the founder of Color in the Outdoors, steward of Piece of Mind Acres, and co-founder of the Underground Hiking Collective.
From growing up near Tenney Park with ducks and his mom to becoming a fierce advocate for equity and healing in nature, Chris shares his journey with vulnerability, wisdom, and joy. He discusses building outdoor programs that welcome everyone, launching CITO, mentoring the next generation, and being featured in Dudley Edmondson's "People the Planet Needs Now."
This episode is full of heart, laughter, and hard-earned insights about what it truly means to belong in the Outdoors.
Connect with Chris Kilgour:
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cjkilgour
Connect with Color in the Outdoors:
🌈 Website: Color in the Outdoors
📸 Instagram: @colorintheoutdoors
Subscribe & Follow Us:
📲 Apple | Spotify | Google | Stitcher – Bird Joy Podcast
Instagram: @thebirdjoypod
💬 Shout-outs
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Season 3
00:00:00
Speaker
You're tuned in to season three of the Bird Joy podcast hosted by Dexter Patterson and Jason Hall. This podcast is for all the homies across the globe, a place to celebrate birds, community, and joy together.
00:00:15
Speaker
We're back with more stories from the birding world, more voices doing dope work in STEM, and more reasons to get outside and enjoy the birds.
Featuring Christopher Kilgore
00:00:24
Speaker
Are you ready for some bird joy? Let's go. Welcome back to the Bird Joy podcast, where we celebrate birds, nature, and the incredible people who help us see the world with wonder and purpose. I'm your host, Dexter Patterson, AKA the WiscoBirder. And I'm Jason Hall. Each week, we bring you the voices of folks who are changing what it means to belong in the outdoors. And today, we're closing out our guest interviews for season three with a absolutely fantastic human.
00:00:54
Speaker
Our guest today is a true leader in the outdoors. He is the founder of Color in the Outdoors, a lifelong adventurer, educator, and advocate for equity in the outdoors.
00:01:06
Speaker
We are thrilled to welcome our brother, Christopher Kilgore, to the Bird Joy podcast. I appreciate y'all having me on. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. i mean, this is absolutely incredible from camping to canoeing, caving, community organizing. Chris has developed programs and partnerships that enable people from diverse backgrounds to experience joy, healing and connection through nature.
00:01:29
Speaker
And y'all, this episode is personal. We're diving into his roots, his powerful work with Peace of Mind Acres, our shared passion projects such as the Underground Hiking Collective, and the honor of being featured in People the Planet Needs Now by Dudley Edmondson.
00:01:48
Speaker
This one is packed with bird joy and real talk. Let's get into it. Chris, thanks for joining us, man. Thanks for having me. It's a real pleasure to be with y'all. and And, you know, in these spaces, it's one of those things where when you're being interviewed or when you're spending time with somebody that isn't somebody you know, that's one passion piece. But when it's people you love, know, and respect, I mean, it's, it's again, its that brings it to a whole new level.
00:02:11
Speaker
Love you too, bro. For real. And I've only known you for about a month because I had the pleasure of coming over there, Dexter. I mean, he could have just left me in the woods, man. I would have been so happy. but You know, I just, I'm so happy that we are able to have you on. and And so let's, let's, let's start kind of start off, right?
Joy of Outdoor Activities
00:02:30
Speaker
Let's kind of ground this, this, this moment. Where are you calling in from today? And what is something that's bringing you peace or joy lately?
00:02:38
Speaker
So I'm ah just outside of Mayville, Wisconsin, which is a tiny town in kind of east central Wisconsin, about an hour north of Madison, an hour north of Milwaukee, actually, for people that are kind of trying to triangulate where that is.
00:02:51
Speaker
As far as things that bring me joy, you know, I'm sitting in what I use as my office, which is kind of the sunroom of the house that overlooks the pond outside and overlooks the woods. And, you know, I can't complain. i mean, that's in and of itself a beautiful thing that kind of grounds me daily. Oftentimes I get called out at being in zoom meetings etc for like what are you looking at and i was like ah everything you know i mean i'm looking at the world it's it's i feel like i'm in an aquarium looking out you know and and early today actually uh my good friend in fact that's your tony dugout was out here nice uh helping me um haul seaweed off the pond because that is one of those maintenance things we got to keep up on out here just before i i joined y'all he's out there in his kayak fishing right now so watching that kind of
00:03:36
Speaker
We're doing the the weed removal to keep the fish population healthy and he's healthy and he's out there trying to sure that there's population. As Tony would say if there's fish out there, going to catch them. He will. He will.
00:03:47
Speaker
Bro, when he caught the like a couple weeks ago, 20-inch bass out there. I'm like, dude, you got you yeah fish like there. i was like, this is crazy. I i got that. go fishing next time I go. there I know Donetta was talking about fishing out there too. I was like, I got, I got to go fishing with the homies out there next time I'm there.
00:04:06
Speaker
Yes, sir. Yeah. We've catch a lot. I mean, we, I had some folks that we do fishing year round out here and we did a ice fishing workshop with, with some friends of mine that are in their late sixties had never been ice fishing before. And,
00:04:17
Speaker
We took 70 fish
Mission of Color in the Outdoors
00:04:18
Speaker
off the water that day. so That's Yeah, they're out here, man. They're out here. Yeah, when you say pond, that that pond real out there, bro. and like it I just find it wild. You're just like, yeah I'm just going to ice fishing in my backyard today. Yeah.
00:04:32
Speaker
yeah i't you know I live in Philly. It's warm enough by the coast over here with New Jersey. like we don't we don't you know We don't really get no ice fishing opportunities anywhere around here. So that's that's just wild. It brings such a smile to my face because I just imagine all these joyful people out there on that pond just freezing and chilling and just, you know.
00:04:52
Speaker
Yeah, that's awesome. Hey, bro, while I tell Jason I was going to go ice fishing this last winter, and he was like, bro, good luck with See you. Well, and you know, here's the truth. Like when I, I grew up, you know, in in Madison, looking right across the street at the, at the Tenier Lagoon and right at the end of the block was Lake Mendota. And so I'd see people out there ice fishing, you know, all winter long at some of them. The diehards, even when it was cold, I would just sit out on a five gallon bucket.
00:05:21
Speaker
Right. And I was like, there's no way there is no way. o But then as time progressed, I started doing it. I, you know, a friend of mine took me out and they had an ice shanty that was all heated, you know, and I had, this isn't, this isn't bad at all. And, you know, because I do work with folks that in many cases have not ever spent this kind of time outdoors and not ever, especially in in extreme temperatures of any sort. So I was able to pick up a few,
00:05:46
Speaker
pop-up ice fishing shanties, you know, that are insulated. And then you put a heater in them. And I mean, at times it's 65 degrees in there. You wear a t-shirt and you're still fishing right through And it changes the game, right? So then and we actually took it a step further and we got an underwater camera, you know, on the tether and you can lower the camera down. And so you can actually watch the fish swim around.
00:06:06
Speaker
And that that brings the attention back, especially with the little ones, right? And I think
Importance of Inclusivity
00:06:11
Speaker
it's like watching TV why and they're down there swimming and it's frozen. Like yeah see the hooks. Right. And then they can see the fish swim up and grab it. And and so they, that, that changes the game.
00:06:22
Speaker
So we, yeah that's amazing. But it's, yeah, it's a joy to be able to, to do that kind of thing, to be able to, to literally walk out my back door or front door and, and, share this with as many people as possible and be able to continue to that point of of creating that awe, that wonder, that love. And, you know, the only way we get people to take care of the planet is to care about the planet. And in many cases, the only way you care about it is to experience it real time instead of hear about it in a podcast or, what you know, not that that isn't a good thing, but that's the start, right? Like we want to get them hooked and then get them out.
00:06:54
Speaker
Literally get them hooked. Literally. yeah about as you step actual Yeah. As y'all can see, Chris is really about that outdoor life.
00:07:05
Speaker
You have dedicated your life to the outdoors and I mean, let's talk a little bit about what inspired you to start your organization, Color in the Outdoors. What was your vision? When when when did you launch this? when like When did you say, I need to create this amazing organization?
00:07:24
Speaker
So I would say, in all honesty, my Color in the Outdoors started. mean, the idea for it, the spark for it, right? Started when I was a kid. I mean, i you know I spent a lot of time in the outdoor spaces with my family. i was adopted.
00:07:37
Speaker
and um A lot of the beautiful places that I got an opportunity to spend time in, I didn't see a lot of folks that looked like me. And i was like that's, I mean, that doesn't make sense to me. You know, course, as a kid, you don't really think about it in the terms that we do understand now.
00:07:51
Speaker
But even back then, I just started inviting my friends. Like, hey, let's go do this. and And oftentimes I would keep hearing people say, well, we don't do that, whatever the we demographic was. I was like, well, we do do that because i'm part of the we and I'm out here doing it. so And I love it. And I love it, right? So I'm not sure which
Influential Figures and Mentoring
00:08:11
Speaker
we we're speaking of. but it ugly so You mean you? You mean you, because it's not weed. But you know what what ultimately wound up happening over time was more people came along and then heard about it from other people who came along, you know and and it just grew.
00:08:28
Speaker
I would say it wasn't until I was probably in my early 20s that I knew that it was something that had to turn into something more formalized, because I've always likened it to a pickup basketball game in the outdoors. right Like, hey, we're going to do this thing, and people would show up and As it started to grow larger, people kept saying, you'd really should organize this more.
00:08:47
Speaker
And, you know, I mean, with with things like schedules and registration and all those things, we realized that it really do need to be a little bit more organized. And that's that's where the idea came about. And the name was very intentional because, you know, you can't replicate, no matter how hard we try as human beings, you can never replicate what nature can do by itself.
00:09:07
Speaker
The colors that are out here, ah shapes that are out here. you have the diet The dynamic diversity that exists in nature, we can't replicate that. We keep trying, but we can't do it. And so i you know wanted to celebrate that idea, the whole idea of kind of the color in in and of the outdoors. So it's those of us out there celebrating and enjoying that which is already there.
00:09:31
Speaker
you know My parents were avid naturalists, so I was i was gifted with that yeah wonder and knowledge as ah as a kid. because That's what we did. Like they were the people that were going to on vacation because they were both educators. Right. So we're going to take a road trip somewhere every every summer.
00:09:46
Speaker
And my sister and I, like ah you know, like we want to stay home. Are we there yet? Yeah. But you know what? but Looking back at it, was like, man, we went to so many amazing places. I learned so many. My mother was a I mean, you know, to to the point of what y'all do, my mother was an avid bird watcher.
00:10:03
Speaker
And she spent a ton of time outdoors. And so I learned a lot from her growing up. You know, she was one of those people that could absolutely, this long before Merlin, right. They could pick up something and be like, that's a such and such and the so-and-so. And I like, uh-huh.
00:10:17
Speaker
You know, and been that was, but it's her passion and her love for it. And the joy that she got from it really sparked a lot of what, drove me in a lot of the other directions that I took hunting and fishing and
Peace of Mind Acres
00:10:28
Speaker
camping and canoeing and the science aspect of it, because I'm definitely a science nerd. So going into geology and going into liminology and getting into forestry and understanding the sciences behind the things that I was spending time in, in, on, or around, right? So...
00:10:44
Speaker
That's really what continued to drive all the different things that we do within Color and the Outdoors proper is continuing to manifest that wonder and that joy, but also having some of that science behind it and having some learning that takes place no matter what we're doing, no matter where we are, so that you walk away more enriched than you were when you started.
00:11:01
Speaker
You know how it is, you can trick people into learning something, it's great, right? like Oh, yeah. Yeah. I don't like school. i don't like school. Hey, what's what's the name of that bird? That's Indigo. Got him. Like we always like to say. Exactly.
00:11:19
Speaker
that's that's That's absolutely incredible. And and ah you know a lot of what you're talking about is this, this it sounds like it started with community first, like like really big, big capitalized community. Let's just get together. And then you realize that you were providing equity, you were providing access and you had it to to so to kind of organize it.
00:11:39
Speaker
As you're kind of moving through this and you have moved through this, like what does inclusion in outdoor spaces in particular look like and mean to you? And and where do you see the most opportunity for change? like Where are you kind of pointing your navigational beacons?
00:11:52
Speaker
Well, that's that's a beautiful question. And I think I would answer it by this. We have a shirt coming out. you know I got to try to keep up with y'all. I got some nice designs there. I know. but i got some nice designs over that window But the shirt, you know, coloring the outdoors, all the logos that we have, that kind of thing. But you know how you have these bumper stickers for travel that have three letters for like Grapewritten or wherever you go.
00:12:18
Speaker
And the three letters are ATW. That stands for according to who. And I think to that point of diversity and inclusion, and ah especially when we're talking about these spaces, is that people often say, well, this is inclusive and and this is welcome. And these things are open and these are accessible. And you say, well, according to who?
00:12:36
Speaker
And if the people that are creating the rules and defining the accessibility and all these things are the people that don't need even think about it. And then those that should be included often are not.
00:12:47
Speaker
And so when a demographic, and it doesn't matter who it is, doesn't feel comfortable when the demographic doesn't feel included, doesn't feel appreciated, doesn't feel seen, doesn't feel as though there is indeed true access to these spaces, and then we're doing it wrong.
00:13:01
Speaker
And I think that so so that when it comes to equity and access in these spaces, we have to have conversations with everyone at the table. And i would argue one step further because I'm a little fiery about that whole idea of like making sure we all have a seat at the table. But I'm like, if I don't have a fork and a plate and a knife and a cup and a meal, then I'm just The hired help. You just let me sit at the table with you. So maybe I'll just go
Challenges and Opportunities in Diversity
00:13:24
Speaker
build my own table.
00:13:25
Speaker
hu And I get it. I'm not supposed to be there to be ornamental, you know? and And let's take it even a step further. Depending on what community and culture you're talking about, there should not be a table in the first place. We just sit a circle and talk because a table in and of itself can be a barrier.
00:13:41
Speaker
Right. And depending on what shape it is, you may not see everyone at it. So therefore you wouldn't necessarily hear every everyone voice or equally. So we really have to take you know deep dive into what that looks like and who defines what is accessible and who defines what is equal.
00:13:55
Speaker
From my end of things, I am definitely the, maybe not even just squeaky wheel, but I'm that squealing wheel. you know when that When that brake indicator hits the metal and starts making that squeaky noise, when you know it's time to change the brakes, well, maybe that's a metaphor. right like It's time ah time to change the brakes. Maybe we need to figure out why it's making this noise and what we could do differently.
00:14:14
Speaker
so I think that as far as equity in the outdoors is concerned, I think that we really need to examine how that is being, how that's been manifested thus far and whether or not we need to change it a step further. Because if you put up a sign, right, that's great. That's a first step.
00:14:31
Speaker
You know, welcome to all. If you have signage with verbiage and with optics of people that look like all of the folks you want to engage in that's great.
00:14:42
Speaker
um You know, to many of the talk that you all have had and talks that Dexter has given about the gifts. If you get side-eyed, people suck their teeth when they walk past you, if you see things even to that point of things that are somewhat prohibitive or indication of only one demographic, like you walk into some buildings, for instance, on a university campus.
00:15:00
Speaker
Using that as an example. And there's just busts of old white men on the wall. Well, that doesn't represent a vast majority of the student population. And so the people that walk through these halls, it's it's not even a guest at the table. It's just that you're here to pay your fees, to get some class time, to move on.
00:15:16
Speaker
versus that could be you. and And I think that that's where we really need in these spaces. And that's what you all are doing is that this is this not that it can be you, but this is already us because you're here sitting here talking to me, listening to me, I'm listening to you.
00:15:31
Speaker
We're already sharing this space. So how do we make it and continue to make it and celebrate it as ours, not just theirs or not just something of that is a other ring. Yeah, that's that representation matters, folks. We've had this conversation and, you know, there and I've said this before. There's that phrase. you If you can see it, you can be it. Cool.
00:15:51
Speaker
You can see it. You can be it and do it. Now you've kind of completed this circle of, yes, I can see myself. Yeah, I deserve a bust. I am that person. Right. Right. I belong out here. and And that's kind of the core of all the work that we do out here.
00:16:06
Speaker
And I see you like when when you're out here teaching people all these outdoor skills, you're teaching everything from outdoor survival to kayaking, foraging. You just had Alexis Nicole here, the black forager in Wisconsin on your property. how How, you know, talk a little bit about about how you go about making these activities welcoming for beginners or people who didn't typically grow up in the outdoors. I've seen this, witness I've witnessed this myself, but I'd love to hear you talk to our listeners about how you make those activities welcoming for everybody. That's ah that's a tricky thing, right? like So being able to say open to all, ah that's great.
00:16:43
Speaker
But i oftentimes, I really am intentional about who gets invited in many cases to events. And although I would really love to just swing the door wide open and say open to the public, I think it's very difficult to make sure that you can maintain a safe space, an encouraging space, a brave space for people without having a little bit of but paying a little bit of attention to how that works, right? and And again, that according to asking questions of the people that may be coming to the events and saying, how would you feel best?
00:17:11
Speaker
You know, how would this make you feel the most comfortable, feel the most safe and start shaping the activities, the actions around those activities within that mindset. So as a, for instance,
Underground Hiking Collective
00:17:20
Speaker
going back a little bit, ah and was asked to give a talk about storytelling and digital storytelling and talking about the outdoor spaces in particular, a long time ago for an organization down in Southwest. And And they were talking specifically about displays in a and a museum type setting. And I said, how many of you have ever walked through your museums on your knees?
00:17:38
Speaker
and every cat looked at like laugh and i said And said, you're telling me that you want to attract young people to this space. And you're telling me you want kids to be enthused about it and excited about this thing. And if you can't see the thing that you're trying to display, because everyone's putting them up on literally on pedestals.
00:17:54
Speaker
and the kids are kids are looking at the nameplate because the thing that they're supposed to be looking at is four feet above their head, then they're not actually going to ever get excited about it. So you need to look at it from the perspective of the people you're trying to engage with.
00:18:07
Speaker
And I think that that resonates on a whole variety of levels. Even with the trails, for instance, on the property, we're looking at redesigning these so they're far more accessible for wheelchairs. We're looking at working with organizations that have all-access wheelchairs.
00:18:19
Speaker
to be able to to ride the trails that are a little bit more challenging in certain areas with you know a grade or with a rough terrain. But I think to that that point of being intentional in these spaces, it's it's being able to to ask questions. And that's often, even to that point of the foraging event that we did, Dexter, I mean,
00:18:38
Speaker
If you notice, like I didn't spend a lot of time talking to folks once they started. I was mean talking in front. I was in the back and I was constantly paying attention to the group that was there. I was constantly making sure that people had water, that people had bugs spray, that people were taken care of because that's how you That's how you're constantly getting that feedback and being able to adjust and staying flexible and engaged enough to adjust ah in a way that it's not performative, right? It's intentionally saying, how best can we make this an experience that when you leave, you have nothing but smiles and stories.
00:19:10
Speaker
The only fatigue you feel is because you are able to let that load you can carry and go for a while. And so you're actually noticing it for the first time in a long time. It's not that you're actually perhaps more tired than you were. It's just that you they were first able to notice it by putting that down for a while and just to be. And then, you know, getting that feedback after the event, for instance, and You know, everybody puts out the surveys, right? And sometimes it's just for qualitative or quantitative data in order to apply for this or that grant or et cetera. But I really do every single one and I take notes and I sit down with the people that we did the event with and say, we always call it the pros and the deltas. Like what was great, what worked, but what can we change?
00:19:49
Speaker
And how do we make that more effective? more of a wraparound experience the next time we do it. And how do you know, instead of saying, well, this is our, this is our setup. This is how do it. This is the curriculum. These are the ways we deliver it. And period.
00:20:01
Speaker
Even, you know, the space that we started to create out here was designed around all of those, I wish they would have moments back in the day where you go to an event. I wish they would have done this differently, or I wish they would have had this. wish they so i'm I'm all the time driving people nuts. I'm like, okay, okay, I got 45 notes here that I want to try to talk about this one thing, you know, specific placement of a door handle so that everyone can reach You know, they're like, really? You're going to go that? So yes, yes, I am. When I was visiting you you, you had, you had thought of so many things about the space already. Right. And I was most impressed with the heated floors and my, in my head, I'm thinking, oh, it's heated floors. Cause it's,
00:20:37
Speaker
you gotta get rid of some snow or some ice. It's Wisconsin, it's wild up there where you all live, right? And you were like, no, like when we bring kids, most of the time they sit on the floor and I want it to be comfortable for them.
00:20:48
Speaker
And that just, my head exploded. Cause I was like, why Like I didn't even, didn't even think about it, but there were so many different things that you had thought about for the space. And it sounds like you're still thinking about it. And and I wonder where
Impact of Mentorship
00:21:00
Speaker
this started, this kind of idea of accessibility, because you're mentioning the children in the, in the, in the museum, like what was their perspective and like your earliest birding memories, you know, at, at Tinney park with your mom and Madison and your, and your connection with some of the nature there. is that Is that where you started to kind of develop that perspective? What was that journey like for you?
00:21:20
Speaker
How did you start to connect those early experiences to what you then want to provide to children in the in the future? I think, yeah, I think a lot of it did definitely stem from my childhood. And, you know, the folks around me, my parents, my both my mother and my father were, you know, avid outdoors people. I know I say that all the time, but I have pictures of me on them ah in a backpack on the beach that my father was walking around, you know, picking up stones. and things and showing them in me and constantly engaging you know because a lot of times nowadays and i'll say it out loud like parents walking their kids with their phone in their hand, not paying any attention to anything. Like there's so many missed opportunities, you know, and then I love to see the opposite. We have parents who stop every 10 feet and they're like, look, there's a chipmunk or, Hey, look, that's a leaf or whatever the case may be. And I definitely was given that gift as an early, at an early age by my my parents, but also, you know, community members that were really involved in the news about these things would it's, you know, and you know how that feels, right? Like that, that teacher or that adult of any sort, because it's usually that that's like,
00:22:16
Speaker
hey, look at this thing. and you're like, that's just a leaf. they're like, no, no you don't understand. This is a maple leaf. And you see these right here. These are the veins that it brings in all the things. You're like, wow, I didn't know there was that much about it.
00:22:27
Speaker
But now I do. Now that's stuck in my head. And now I got to do something with that. It's that excitement, too, that helps us stick in the head. Like, there wait this person that I kind of like and look up to is like really excited about this thing.
00:22:40
Speaker
and Absolutely. That sparks a memory, too, or or curiosity in you where you're like, Maybe I should pay attention to these leaves. Yeah. This is kind of cool. And I think that, you know, as, as time progressed, I definitely,
00:22:53
Speaker
I would be and remiss if I didn't give credit to a lot of those, you know, growing up in in my elementary school, middle school, high school. Like I remember, I remember very vividly those teachers, those instructors, those counselors that weren't necessarily all nature, nature, nature, all those things, but we're, we love the fact that you love it and therefore we want you to continue to love it. So what can we help you do to make that happen?
00:23:16
Speaker
And I think that that's the other component to that, which is We don't all have to like the same things. Some of us are avid birders that I'm an absolute, i mean, I've been out birding my entire life and I am a, I'm a kindergartner compared to y'all. I mean, like I still will say that out loud. I'm like, I have binoculars and I can identify the colors and I have Merlin. That's as far as I go with this. Right. And, um, but I love it. I love it. I love to be outside. I love it. And whenever I'm doing other things like,
00:23:42
Speaker
kayaking or canoeing or hunting or whatever, I have my binoculars at 99% of the time. It's not to see what I'm hunting for or what I'm doing. It's to see the birds because that's that's something that's been ingrained in me. And so I think that to have people that support that passion is incredibly important.
00:23:57
Speaker
And I think that that's, has always been what has driven me and kind of driven me to celebrate what I love is the people that had surrounded that I've been surrounded with who have encouraged that celebration.
00:24:09
Speaker
And they may not necessarily have the same love, they have different, but they aren but they see the passion and they see the excitement and they wanna encourage and to support and cultivate that. So ah you know I look back at, had a principal in high school who, mean, he and I'll tell you what, and this is actually, i will tell this anecdotal story and I apologize for rambling, but- Please do. right We love this.
Chris Kilgore's Philosophy
00:24:31
Speaker
bill mcpike who was the principal at Madison University School. I had the absolute fortune. he was He was one of the most amazing people i have ever dealt with in my life when it comes to that world of education. And he ruled with absolute poise and grace. And mean, everyone was scared him just because he was a giant, but he was a gentle giant and he was a brilliant man. He cared about every, he knew every single student and he could tell you who your family was and who you were connected to and would call you out if you were late for class and tell you going to call your mom. And you knew he would, but I ran into him couple of years after I graduated high school and I had started it. I was involved in a detective agency back then and we did a lot of law enforcement related stuff. And I was in, was in a firearm store actually picking up some equipment.
00:25:15
Speaker
And he walked in carrying this case. and I was like, what are you doing here? and he said, what are you doing here? So we talked a little bit, you know, he pulled out this Meshaka that he used for bird hunting. And and i was like, i didn't know you did that. He's like I loved I've been doing it. So all of a sudden, like I had never even thought about doing that end of things. But like, this man who I've looked up to my entire life, like literally my entire life is doing this thing. Like there must be something to this.
00:25:37
Speaker
And that's actually what sparked my interest in even going in that direction was just that one man in that one space at that one moment because of my absolute adoration for him.
00:25:48
Speaker
I was like, you know, I want to want to know all the things he likes to do because it must be cool. And I ran with it. I feel like those there are those moments where we often, I mean, I can tell you the day that I fell in love with photography, Joe Thomas, who was a counselor in one of the schools I was in, he got me started with picture taking and the love of developing photos and seeing that magic happen and I took it off from there.
00:26:08
Speaker
And, you know, all these Richard Scott, who was a counselor at Madison East High School, you know, and and Donald Cooper, who was a counselor at what was Marquette then. I was O'Keefe.
00:26:19
Speaker
These are all people who 100% inspired me, you know, and I could make a list a mile long, but it, and again, they were like, if you love it, we love that for you. And therefore we're going to do what we can to help continue to follow that passion.
00:26:31
Speaker
And that was it. So that's, To me, that's the best way to do it. There's a woman who has since left us, Jackie DeWalt, who was at the university and her saying. All these legends. You keep naming all these legends. I'm telling you, but I got to give them credit because these are people that inspired me. And she said, lift as you climb.
00:26:50
Speaker
And that I truly believe it I truly believe in it. And I think that the other thing that we we have to remember is that sometimes we have to lift as we climb, but sometimes we can get to a stable spot where we're going to lift and then we're go to push and we're going to try to help people go even higher than where we were.
00:27:04
Speaker
And I think that one person for somebody else. Right. Yes. That one person that made you feel seen and heard and supported you. I know Jason's been that person for endless amounts of people within Color Birding Club. I do my best to do that with the youth because we got it. We got to use these platforms. And that's why I'm so passionate about reaching the kids right now is to be that one person.
00:27:27
Speaker
That maybe opens a door for them that makes them curious, like you talked about with the maple leaf or just says, you know what? I am so happy that you love this and I love that for you.
00:27:37
Speaker
How can I help you? How can I push you like you just said and help you get to that next level? And look what it did, Chris. Like you're sitting in what you said, like an aquarium right now. Right. Surrounded by nature and and wildlife. You know, i always laugh when I see like those shirts or those coffee cups that says easily distracted by birds. And then I'm looking at you sitting in that office and you're talking about being on Zoom calls and you're easily distracted by the nature. That's right. You all the time. You're now stewarding not only the 92 acres of land that you have, but you've talked about that you're you're caring for other pieces of property, but your property in particular, peace of mind
Impact of Bird Joy Podcast
00:28:20
Speaker
acres. Tell us the story behind the name and and what inspired you to create this beautiful space.
00:28:25
Speaker
So I'll go back to just before the pandemic hit and and maybe even further back than that. I used to live on some, i grew up in Madison, but then moved to a different piece of land with with my ex, my ex-wife. We own some property outside of Poinette and 40 some odd acres there. and the And the goal was to do something similar there. And it wasn't a super ideal place, but it was patch of woods. And so i actually was involved in scouting. And so we would take the scouts out there and they would we do winter camping and we would do, you know, survival skills and all those types of things. But I always wanted to be near water and it didn't quite work. Well, when when the relationship dissolved, that that access to property was, you know, one of those things. And so a deer human to me, friend of mine and i were talking about, because they had gone through similar experience and we were talking about how would be so great to have land that you'd just kind of get away to, et cetera. And we had different ideas and different kind of intentions of how ah much time we' were going to spend there, et cetera. but
00:29:22
Speaker
I was like, I'd really love to find a place that could be a place I could live on and then also have an educational space of sorts to be able to continue to do the work with Color in the Outdoors. Just before the pandemic closed down, found this and looked at a couple other spots kind of together saying, you know, we should think about this someday. Maybe we could co-invest in a property like this. And and And I do have to give you know incredible credit ah to Tammy for the amount of time, energy and effort and finance she put into this space and continues to, you know because it's been a labor of love on both sides of kind of how we look at this space, but it's an old retired iron mine. And so when we found the place,
00:30:00
Speaker
It's such and you've been out here, Dex, well, both of you have been out here, so you you know like it's diverse and in geography, it's diverse in geology, it's diverse in flora and fauna, but it also speaks volumes to the fact that it is a it is a space that was once absolutely decimated by humans and was taken down to literally the bare rock for a mile in every re direction, and there was nothing but dirt out here.
00:30:23
Speaker
Now we've got, ah you know, 60 acres of woods and 30 acres of, well, 30 plus acres of agricultural and and prairie space and restoring some of the egg space in the more pollinated prairie, you know, starting in the spring.
00:30:35
Speaker
This is a ah lesson in reclamation, right? A lesson in in land finding
Future Plans and Gratitude
00:30:40
Speaker
its it symbiotic balance and finding this space that can where the pendulum swings one direction and then the other and then finds this balance that nature does on its own, right? And that's the other beautiful thing. I mean, we talk about being stewards in these spaces and like, oh, we got to do this and we got to do that. And then other cases I've been reminded both by, quite honestly, by by indigenous elders, friends and family members, it's going to do its thing regardless of what you do. you're You're actually making these changes kind of for you because nature is going to do its thing. It's going to be okay. Like, oh, that's true.
00:31:09
Speaker
Now we have impacted it in some cases where we've changed perhaps the course, it's still going to do its thing. um So, you know, my, my goal, once we kind of so found this spot was to create as much access to the space, create as many trails as we possibly could create as much diversity or continue to foster to the diversity that was already in place.
00:31:31
Speaker
and and have that be a metaphor, right? Like this is a place that is healed, therefore can be healing. This is a space that consistently is changing and transforming just like we are.
00:31:41
Speaker
This is a place that does live in harmony. It finds its own balance like we can. And then the name in and of itself, I mean, this is a old mind. And so I did a little play on words and people kept trying to spell check me when I said, no, it's spelled P-I-E-C-E-M-I-N-E-D because it's a piece of a mind.
00:32:00
Speaker
I love it. I'm one of those people. I kept saying peace, like peace, like peace. yeah whoa He's like, exactly it's peace, like a piece of it. Like a portion of, right. And so, you know, and that was very intentional because I want people to come out here feeling that peace, that P-E-A-C-E and that peace of mind, M-I-N-D.
00:32:22
Speaker
But it is peace of mind found on a peace of mind. And um so so there's you know there's a lot to be said about that. Beautiful thing about the mining practices out here and during the time that it was being mined is that it was for the era of tons of chemicals and toxic interventions. So you we're really fortunate that way that iron mining was just jason taking some stuff out of the rocks. Yeah. yeah They weren't pumping it full of a bunch of other weird stuff and having the runoff, it sounds like. so And and that that place is really beautiful. like Just the the pond out back, the color, of the contrast of the water and the rocks, like i you know that that was what struck me. But I wonder, you, Dexter, and Jasmine launched the Underground Hiking Collective, right? Which which sounds, if you've gone with it this far in the podcast, folks, this is this tracks, right? Yeah. This is makes sense, right? And so tell us a little bit about that collective and what that community has meant to you personally. Jasmine and I have known each other since since high school, basically.
00:33:21
Speaker
Actually, always say middle school because I was in middle school while she was in high school. Yeah, I'm calling it out. She's all good. um That's why we can never say no to her. Exactly. Exactly. But ah i have I have nothing but love and adoration for Jasmine. you know and And it's funny because Dexter and I met kind of in an indirect way. And i think the first time we actually spent time together, Dexter, was when you came out here, wasn't it? Mm-hmm.
00:33:43
Speaker
You got you know, and i' and I'll tell you what, Jason, when I saw him high fiving and jumping up and down and giggling the first time they saw a bird they hadn't seen in a while, was like, that's that's that's love and joy right there. I had like some species at his crib.
00:33:56
Speaker
Like the first time I went there, I was going crazy. It was golden. We were blurs. Oh, man. You got golden wing warblers
Rapid-Fire Questions with Chris Kilgore
00:34:05
Speaker
on your property. I was like, did you know this? Like, I kept asking him, like, did you know you had this one? What about this one? What about this one? Like, it was insane, bro. Like, I'm like, blue wing warblers and wood thrushes. Like, I'm like, dude, there's two wood thrushes right there. And I'm like, right there. And I'm like freaking out. I'm getting goosebumps thinking about it now. And I was like, dude, this is your backyard. Like, I still can't believe it. Indigo bunting, singing all over the place. I was like, dude, this is insane.
00:34:35
Speaker
So my bad. See, you got me all excited. No, no, no. But it was that passion. And so when when Jasmine reached out, you know i had I had been talking with her. And Dexter and I had done some stuff together, and different trying to get all kinds of collaborations together. and And it's, I mean, it literally is like bringing the super friends together when I get to spend time with those two.
00:34:57
Speaker
I mean, it's just, it's it is all the love and all the support and all of it's there's, there's, in my opinion, right. There's no piece of the time we spend together that is ever built on a deficit model that is ever parasitic, that is ever anything but harmony.
00:35:12
Speaker
And we work well in different, you know, the way we work off of each other. I am definitely that person that likes to be, i always call it the caboose. i always like to be the last one in line when we're walking around, right? Because i can make sure that everyone, and part of that is my old, you know, protective nature of my old careers in law enforcement blah, blah, blah. But part of it is just I'm that caretaker. I like to make sure that ah people are all taken care of, right? So I like to be in the back. And Jasmine is one people that is in a logistic perspective.
00:35:36
Speaker
wizard I mean, she does amazing things. But she also, she she she is just such an incredible art. I mean, she just she is a walking art. Like, you just feel better. You feel better when stand next to her.
00:35:47
Speaker
don't even to say anything, right? That's mild. Yeah. She's just an amazing community advocate and ally and does amazing things for and with people. So when Jasmine reached to the two of us, you know i didn't even, I mean, I was like, I couldn't type yes fast enough when she said, I don't care what it is. like If she said, you want to go sit on a bunch of tax, I'd be like, yeah, I mean, whatever it takes. If you want to do it, I'm with you.
00:36:13
Speaker
And to to be able to provide this, you know and and we we overuse safe space, right? But to but to provide the safe and brave space for our concentric circles of human beings and to see how it literally went from what, I think 12 the first time?
00:36:29
Speaker
Yeah. We've had over 40 at some, you know, yeah it's just grown into something just absolutely beautiful. I think we're close to 200 for the membership. I mean, it's just exploded. And it's that word of mouth, right? That spreads that we're like, this is this is for us, by us. And I think that they're, and again, I don't want to speak for other organizations, and and but I would say that the the nature of the beast is that when we want to do an activity or an event, especially if we're trying to bring the public into it, we may not have all BIPOC group.
00:37:00
Speaker
We may have a very mixed bunch. and we and And to that point, I always want to make sure that we are inclusive and welcoming. But there is also something very important about having affinity space, regardless of who it is.
00:37:11
Speaker
At this point, the Underground Hiking Collective is a BIPOC-focused, BIPOC-only hiking group. and And it shows. People show up because of that. and and And to to have this, and the beautiful thing about it is that we we are us. We have kids show up, people bring their dogs. I mean, it's just all the things. Yeah.
00:37:32
Speaker
And kids will run crazy and and nobody even, nobody even believes the eye, right? Because the whole group is taking care of that. That's the village. That's the village. Yeah, we are. So, so the, the the beauty of, of being able to be part of this is just something else. And, and, you know, like I said, Dexter's got the bird things. And if there's a plant that somebody wants to identify and see if you can eat it, I'm with you. I got you. And if they want to know if we can do this or that, okay, cool. Then Jasmine's a, you know, master naturalist. So she's answering questions on her own. Well, So you've got three people that are just kind of moving within the group and and sharing that love for that space. And it and it does. It rubs off.
00:38:05
Speaker
yeah You know what I love is every time we meet, there's always somebody that has never been on a hike. Yeah. Yeah. it That fires me up. Some of them have never been outside. like that And then they get done and they're like, what's the next one?
00:38:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And that that just every time I'm like, yeah, when is the next one? Basically in our chat, like, because like that is the stuff. Like we are showing people what is possible out there. And, you know, the joy is different. The jokes are different. The way we talk. Yeah.
00:38:39
Speaker
different than a lot of these other spaces that we invite allies to and different things so i love being able to offer not only my community our birding community from the bipac burning club of wisconsin those ipoc only opportunities but how many people i've been able to meet in the community that I never knew before yeah would expose them to the work that I do and to be able to to meet up with you and and be able to develop our relationship more. And then Jasmine as well. She came to our first ever birding event because she heard me on Angela Russell's podcast and she brought her daughter and her granddaughter to our very first birding event. And the first time I talked to her, I was like, I need this woman in my life.
00:39:19
Speaker
A hundred percent. Yes. I was like, ever since then, I was just like a huge fan. So I'm running around with my Jasmine Banks signs wherever I go just telling people how much I adore her. And shout out to her because the Underground Hiking Collective has changed my life. And and I just love the group and all the people. And man, i wow. Yeah.
00:39:43
Speaker
Y'all got me emotional right now. No, it's real. and and And I think that that's the thing. And and it's funny. And I'll call you out, Dex, because I think that we all do this is that at the end of every hike, I think that all three of us have a hard time not showing emotion and not getting teary eyed because it is it's a constantly transformative and it builds on itself. Like you can just see that you can see the the weight coming off of people's shoulders. You can see the bond being created between people. In many cases, to your point, Dex, earlier, people had never even met each other before. Yeah. who are exchanging information. And and we had one person on a hike that that I've been trying for years to get outside and she showed up and and she's like, I brought my or my knife just a case. I was like...
00:40:28
Speaker
You're going be okay. You're you're with us." right if And by the time it was over, she was posting like, I'm bringing my family tomorrow. And then they came out with it. Wasn't it the next day that they went back and back out to the same place and they're like, these deer were chasing us. This is a person who had never done it before and had swore they were never going to do it. And now- Shout out to Sabrina. Yes.
00:40:49
Speaker
and disagree Yeah, I wanted to hear this because I love her for it. I mean that love her so much. That is 100% the passion. So I don't know if I answered that question, but I'll tell you, I mean, the I agree with Dexter a thousand percent that the there's just something magical about the this group.
00:41:05
Speaker
And it has caused, I think, all of our circles to grow. And it has caused, you know, this... awareness five four with one another to just expand on levels that I don't think would ever happen.
00:41:17
Speaker
um And Madison is a weird town that way. You know, I mean, for for a but an urban setting, we have far more silos than most mor rural spaces. Right. Like we silo everything.
00:41:28
Speaker
I mean, instead of buildings, we just have silos everywhere. There's all these different groups doing these different things, but we have a really hard time in understanding that appreciating the value of concentric circles. Power of the collaboration. We've talked about that on this podcast numerous because and I say this all the time, Chris, the people that are collaborating are the ones that are going to win. um And I think that's why.
00:41:50
Speaker
we're being successful. That's why we're winning. Because we're just there together. um And when I think about collaboration, you were you and Jason both were featured in The People the Planet Needs Now by by the homie Dudley Edmondson. We had Dudley on a few weeks back. What did that moment mean to you to be featured in Dudley's book?
00:42:08
Speaker
I'm still humbled on a whole bunch of levels. To be honest with you, I can tell you exactly where I was standing. I can tell you, i mean, it was just this it was a strange sequence of events where he and I met when he and the and the group are here for the Blackwaters event, ah the film that Dudley was involved in.
00:42:22
Speaker
I invited them to come out here and to just hang out for a day and do some fishing and hike around a little bit. And while we were walking around and and talking about it, he'd asked if I'd be interested in being chapter in this book. And I thought he was kidding at first, to be honest with you. was like, yeah, okay. He said, no, I'm serious. And he I'd really like to talk about what you do. was blown away.
00:42:39
Speaker
i was blown away and ah And so yeah I was like, well, yeah, you know, and and so we, our friendship kind of developed from that point just because we were corresponding so much about the book. But, you know, Dudley is an amazing dude. He does so many amazing things.
00:42:52
Speaker
And then I'll tell you what, I started just, I was fanning. i was just like, i was looking through this and I didn't. Truth be told, and i and and and I don't, Jason, I don't know how you were about this, but I honestly didn't even read my chapter for probably the first three months I owned the book because I was too busy trying to get in touch with all the other people in the book. yeah I was like, look at all these told people. I was stalking on socials.
00:43:13
Speaker
Like I was like, you know what we should have done? We should included QR codes to everybody's social media account. but Because I really was. Stalking is a good word because I was like, oh my. Oh, but, you know, reading everybody's story and here, mean, just and then again, the way the universe works, right? Like, and here's Jason at the building. I was like, oh, you got to sign my book. That was so cool. That was a moment where I was like, you know, I was like sitting there like proud homie. Because I'm like looking at both of y'all. I'm like, this is so cool that y'all are meeting for the first time. And what made it even more special, it was Juneteenth. It was Juneteenth. Jason and I had just went to Oracon Marsh and Culver's.
00:43:52
Speaker
And we brung you some, too. We did. But, like, I was just sitting there and I was so excited. Like, i was like, cannot believe these two are meeting together. They're both featured in this book. It was like this serendipitous moment. And I was just super proud to be both of y'all friends at that time.
00:44:09
Speaker
It was no. i I mean, and I think that that to me continues to be the point that I keep trying to get across to everybody is that we we have to work aggressively at loving and supporting one another and and singing each other's praises from as far as high up as we can possibly get.
00:44:24
Speaker
We get so caught up and especially when we talk about social media and all this other mess. right? We get so caught up in, in the performative nature of trying to promote ourselves that we forget that the only reason we're successful is because of all the people that are promoting us.
00:44:37
Speaker
Amen. Yeah. it's so sweetness So to, to be in that space, to be in that space with you, Jason, to be like, no, this, this dude is doing amazing things And it was so funny. Cause mean, I was following you on social media before you were in the book and all these things. Right. So we obviously, we, we do stalk each other, right? Like in these spaces and it's like, how come we don't spend time? And and part of it also is like, I don't know if I want to,
00:44:58
Speaker
yeah talk about you because I don't really know you. You could be just that Instagram person, blah, blah, blah. But the reality is, especially in spaces like Dudley's book, it's like, this is the person who's vetted that, right? So we know the good that these are good people being celebrated by a good person.
00:45:11
Speaker
And I think that that's the important part of that, right? Is being able to sing the praises once we know and continue to celebrate that. Yeah. And you know it's it's ah certainly an honor for me to to be in there. And you definitely made my my peanut butter skin blush when you were like, can you sign my book? I was like, who, me?
00:45:28
Speaker
Now that's real. You're doing amazing things. As I'm standing on peace of mind acres, right? And I'm like, am I doing enough? I mean, damn. um But you know it was it was just it was very great for me. And it and I immediately felt, you know immediately as soon as I walked in the door and saw you and we embraced, Dexter obviously speaks very highly of you. I think you, if I could speak for Dexter a little bit, I think you do serve as a little bit of a mentor for some of his thoughts and Amen. And I wonder, and I immediately felt that when I walked into, I felt like I could have just sat right over on one of your chairs by the workbench and started peppering you with questions and you would have sat and answered me. Right. And it sounds like you've mentored a lot of people like that, right? Like you've really got into a consistent space of making sure that you're available as, you know, as time goes on. And and so what do you think? makes a great mentor and in the outdoor space in particular when it comes to educating people and forming a sense of equity? Back to what I was saying a little bit before, but I think the best mentors are the people that love your love for whatever it is and figure out ways to support that and that passion. And I think that making time, now I will say to a fault, people, i get chastised in all the time because people are like, you are too busy. You do it do you do too many things.
00:46:49
Speaker
I admit, I do too many things. We're extra sometimes, but we are i don't know how to exist any other way. Like if I wasn't doing something, I'd be a mess. but If I, I mean, this sounds super melodramatic or whatever, but if I die on a trail helping somebody learn about it, going to be a happy person. You know, and and I think that i obviously I don't want to, I don't want it to take away from my time, focus on family. And I don't want to take it. don't want it to be at the detriment of my, you know, my being able to keep a job or anything like that. But if I have to sleep four hours a day in order to make sure that 20 of those hours are are being served, doing the best I possibly can to create that that passion and space for the next generations.
00:47:26
Speaker
I mean, and from the indigenous community, know, you talk about seven generations, you talk about the seven before and the seven to come. And I think that we really need to, that's how I really do try to live my life is thinking about it in terms of, you know, we did not inherit this space from our ancestors. We are borrowing it from our kids and so we have to be really cognizant of that and be very respectful and mindful of doing right by those that got us here because that's that's inevitable like we have to do that but somebody and and i have to apologize i don't see that person because i cannot remember who told me this but they said that's great that you're trying to honor your ancestors etc but you got to remember like they don't you got to do right by the people that are here right now as well so yeah they they can see you they can hear you depending on what your ideology is the people that are here right now
00:48:07
Speaker
need to see and hear that most. What makes a mentor a truly good mentor is a person that can support that passion, that can find you access, resource, and help you not be them. And I think that's the other thing is there's a lot of mentors out there that are trying to be, trying to person, you know, it's like that armchair quarterback type of mentality of like, I want you to be the next me. And it's like, I don't want anybody to be like me because you need more sleep than me.
00:48:29
Speaker
But yeah, But I want to, you know, I would love to have young people find enough passion in spaces like this out here where they can take this over, where I can sit up in this room and watch them do all the things and love the fact that they love it.
00:48:42
Speaker
Trying to gesture, feel so bad right now Who's the young man who absolutely is the bird genius who's now I think what? Roman? well Roman. he Yeah, Roman. like He inspires me.
00:48:55
Speaker
He's only 10. It's crazy. like He inspires me. And I think that that's, you know, that's that thing. and And so we know that there are those prodigy-esque humans out there that are just on their own, the genius. Most of the people that are true geniuses and true, you know, aficionados of something, it's because of the support they got from those people around them. And I think that that's, to me, what makes a good mentor is that somebody who can enter it at the level that best suits the person who they see that passion and that joy and that talent in and then try to help build that because of their own joy and love that's going to inevitably do that but don't try to turn them into you let them turn into the best version of them with whatever support knowledge and information you can from your end and so a lot of times for instance the equipment that shows up in the building that i wind up purchasing or the things that we do
00:49:39
Speaker
is behind the scenes based on, in most cases, young people, but but but adults too, who have said, I really would love to learn how to X. And if I don't know how to do it, or if I don't have the stuff to do it, I'm going to try to figure out a way to make that happen.
00:49:50
Speaker
I'm not going to ever embarrass them publicly and be like, we're doing this because of so-and-so's joy. But it's like, hey, we can if we can expand on that, because if they love it, somebody else loves it too. Like, and and they were brave enough to speak up and tell you because you created a space for them to say so. And you buy and and you get that bycatch too, where you, you created that opportunity maybe for that one person. Oh, but here comes six other people that were like, man, I really wanted this. And I didn't tell you, I'm so glad you like,
00:50:16
Speaker
This gives me such goosebumps because this is so true. This is just doing what you feel in your heart is the right thing to do regardless and providing the opportunity. You're going to catch so many other people and and catch them off guard with the amount of joy that you bring to the surface in their lives. So that that's just incredible.
00:50:34
Speaker
And that's I think that's that's the important thing. And, and i you know, i I will admit I am terrible. And I look up to people like, you know, when it comes to social media, I'm terrible at social media. And I mean, you know, we've got the platform for calling the outdoors and people like you are so antiquated with what you do. was like, I know I have thousands and then literally if not tens of thousands of photos and videos and everything of all the things that we've done.
00:50:58
Speaker
But I'm too busy out here doing the things that I would. This morning I could have been uploading stuff and I was, I was calling seaweed all morning long, you know? So I'm like, so, so that trying to find people to that point of mentoring, like along the way that I can be like, Hey, let me help you do this. And if you know about this other thing real quick, help me with,
00:51:18
Speaker
you doing the work, bro. That's what matters. You know, in the end, the social media stuff, that's fine. But ultimately, like if I didn't have to spend any time on social media and I could just be outburdened all the time, I would pick that 100 out of 100 times. You know what mean? Like, that's real.
00:51:35
Speaker
Yeah. and That's the why, ain't it? That is the why. Why we do this. so That is absolutely the why. and And I think that that's the other end of this is that, you know, if people could come out and tell this story while they're here, and I don't even care if they tell the story about me because that's not the reason. That's not the reason I do this. And I think that's the other, back to the mentoring question, I think that's the other part is you're not doing it for you.
00:51:54
Speaker
I mean, the true mentor is not, you you get joy and love out of it, but that's, if you do that for your own joy, that's a selfish reason, as opposed to, I will inevitably get joy and love out of the fact that we're helping this other person or these other people or this other community or the the land that we are working in and on.
00:52:11
Speaker
If we're giving to it and it gives back, then that's the win. And I think that that's also part of it. and And that sounds like that's a little bit of your... of your way to stay grounded is making it not about yourself, making it about the result that you see and the hearts of other people. And what is your big why right now, right? For continuing to build this space, right? Because you just mentioned you got, you still got stuff to do. You got to make a whole new wildflower meadow.
00:52:39
Speaker
You got to keep culling the seaweed. You got other events coming. What do you to to reconnect yourself. We talked at the beginning about how you can find joy and peace just looking out the window, but what's that thing that kind of keeps you anchored in when you, when you're only getting four hours of sleep? Like what is that thing moving forward that, that really drives you?
00:53:00
Speaker
and I'm seeing the smiles. I mean, I dont know that sounds cheesy, but that's real. I mean, soon seeing the smile, seeing the people sitting by the you know sitting in a field or holding a butterfly or staring, just staring. i mean, that's the other thing is that when when we are so busy that we forget that quote unquote spacing out is actually okay.
00:53:17
Speaker
Like that's our brain regrouping. And so they sit on the edge of a field and just stare out there. and Amen. You know, and and and I was, I was laughing. In fact, Jasmine was out here the other day with her granddaughter and her granddaughter went out and sat on the kayak for um over an hour and it started to rain.
00:53:34
Speaker
And so she came in and she was so tired and then she was like, I need to take a nap. I'm like, well, then go take a nap. And I think that we don't allow ourselves to be in those spaces and do those things. So the thing that, the thing that grounds me is the ability to give people that opportunity in that space to go do those things to be able to either out and hike and really da da da or to sit down somewhere and snore for the next three hours and I literally have had people that have come out here don't say to each other those comfortable cots hey I'm telling you man me and Jason laid on them like oh yeah I can sleep here that's what I'm saying See, that's it. It's being able to take that opportunity and not feel bad about it.
00:54:11
Speaker
Being able to to to not be held to any rules and regulations. are I mean, just come out here and relax. You don't have talk to me. And there are people that do that. They come out here, you know, say, hey, how's going? They head off to do whatever they're doing it and They text me later saying, had a wonderful time. Thanks so much. And that's all that's that's all I need, right? Is to know that the work that I do on the trails or the work that I do with the CV and all those things we talked about provide the opportunity for somebody to find peace along the way.
00:54:35
Speaker
To me, that's what that's what keeps me grounded. it's It's being able to, because it we live in a turbulent world and as humans, we cause chaos. We cause chaos for ourselves. We cause chaos for others. And I've definitely, unfortunately done my share back in the end. So being able to try to, maybe there's a making amends for all those wrongs, but also at the same time trying to do right moving forward. And I think that's that's incredibly important.
00:54:58
Speaker
And we lose track of that so often because we're addicted to the negative. We're addicted to the sensationalized, oh my gosh, did you hear about such and such? sure rare And rarely do we celebrate that. You know what?
00:55:08
Speaker
I didn't even say anything the last three hours. And that's okay. Isn't that amazing? Amen. I love it. Chris, this man, every time, Jason, an hour flies and I'm like, how is this even possible?
00:55:21
Speaker
Like, how is this even possible? Like, they say time flies when you're having fun, literally. And now we need to speed it up a little bit more with a little Bird Joy podcast, Rapid Fire. All right. so right we're going to ask you a question um and you let us know what's the first thing that pops up in your mind. All right.
00:55:40
Speaker
Let's go. All right. Here we go. What is your favorite outdoor activity right now? i One thing everybody should try in the outdoors at least once. Pay attention to something around you outside.
00:55:53
Speaker
Okay. Describe peace of mind. Acres in one word. Restorative. What's something you always pack for a trip? Snacks.
00:56:04
Speaker
Snacks. What kind of snacks, though? Hold on a minute. What kind of snacks? Let me talk. All right, all right. You got to have a good trail mix. If you have too much chocolate, you're going to more be more thirsty and you're going to wind up having a sugar crash. So don't do all kinds of people trying to all kinds of chocolate. It's still important.
00:56:19
Speaker
Solid. Dry mango for sure, for sure. Dried cherries for sure. Good, good dry walnuts. I mean, that kind of thing. So food that you can pack, it's not going to spoil. Definitely good trail food. And I think that, you know, I mean, this isn't a plug, but we do a camp cooking class to talk about, like, you don't have to eat just sticks and twigs to enjoy a time. Yeah.
00:56:38
Speaker
You can have a straight up three-course meal. Hey, listen, I'm trying to get one of them 20-inch bass thrown over a skillet somewhere. Y'all, I mean, i haven't eaten dinner yet. You had me hungry talking about that earlier. but Yes, sir. Yeah. All right. All right. Cool. Cool. Craziest thing you've seen on a camping trip? I've seen ah when I was at Yosemite, when I was a kid with my family, in the park when some big brown bears came through and tore the tops off of vehicles trying to get into food. Like literally. Oh, man. And you were still like, you know what? I want to be out here in the outdoors. I wanted to follow the bears. And the rangers were like, you need to stay. I was like, I'm missing all the fun.
00:57:18
Speaker
One outdoor skill that has changed your life. Fire building. To that point of survival, and survival can be looked at in a million different ways. If you are able to survive in the worst of conditions, your perception of your surroundings change, whether that's in the city or in the country, in the woods or in the boardroom.
00:57:37
Speaker
I think about that all the time. yeah All the time. Cause I know I don't know how to the right way. And I probably got to come out there, but I watched those silly shows like alone where they drop people off and I'm like, bro, build a fire. What are you doing? Like you've got daylight. It's not raining. Build a fire. I don't care about your shelter. Just get a fire going first. Wherever you're going. Like and in my head, I'm like, this is so logical, but I know I can't do it out there. So who am I? Who am I? If you're right,
00:58:01
Speaker
If you don't have a survival kit in your vehicle at all, if you don't have something that if you were to walk out the door with your backpack, you don't have the bare necessities, I'm going to make you change it right now. So that's my challenge to of y'all. If you don't have it, you should do it. mean, I'm going to give me that. going to give me of them ATW bumper stickers to put on the back of my truck. Here we go. I'm interested in this answer.
00:58:20
Speaker
Dream destination for a future adventure. blue Okay, so i have dreamt for a very very long time of going to Palau, the island of Palau, or I would love to dive Bonaire. I'm an avid diver as well as all the other things. And the underwater world to me is just as magical as the terrestrial one.
00:58:38
Speaker
So I would say Palau for all of the ecological reasons and how it has become an amazing space based on kind of human interaction to some degree, but I told you he do everything.
00:58:50
Speaker
this man see i told you, I told you, Chris, I mean, dude, I learned more about you. Like every time I talk to you, I learn something. You're a diver too. Like, come on. Like, like this is crazy.
00:59:04
Speaker
ah Chris, thank you so much for sharing your story, your heart, bro, like your wisdom with us today. The work you are doing is really making a difference. It it really is. We're proud to call you a friend and so so, so, so, so excited that you are able to join us as our final guest for season three. Yeah, man.
00:59:25
Speaker
It's been an absolute joy and an honor. And like, i i mean, I would, I would absolutely echo that. Like I I'm honored and humbled to call y'all friends. I appreciate the love and joy that you all share with all the folks that you interact and intersect with.
00:59:37
Speaker
And like we just got to keep doing it. Yes, sir. I mean, this is such a, such a rich conversation and and I hope our listeners can stay connected. Where can they follow your work or learn more about color in the outdoors and peace of mind acres So you can reach us at colorintheoutdoors.com or on all of the social media platforms as Color in the Outdoors.
00:59:56
Speaker
And ah peace of mind, actually, we're just in the process of vamping up. ah We actually have an Instagram page, but there's like three pictures on it right now. So Instagram is going to be the spot for peace of mind acres. But otherwise, yeah, Color in the Outdoors, you can reach us on all those spots.
01:00:10
Speaker
Love it. We will link to Color in the Outdoors in their socials in the show notes. With that, folks, that is the end of our guest interviews for season three of the Bird Joy podcast. Jason and I will be back next week with a special season three reflection episode.
01:00:27
Speaker
So many, so many lessons this season. So many amazing guests. and And we're excited about what's ahead. Yeah. And until then, folks, just keep listening to the birds and supporting your communities. Amen. And thank you for joining us today on the Bird Joy podcast. We hope you have enjoyed exploring the world of birding and nature in the outdoors with us and Chris today. Shout out to the BIPOC Birding Club of Wisconsin. We, like I said, we're always rolling, always got something to Yesterday, we had our bats and birds at dawn event.
01:00:58
Speaker
It was absolutely fantastic. And until next time, homies, as usual, if you are in or around Philly, shout out to the homies at In Color Birding Club, incolorbirding.org. Look us up. See what's going on.
01:01:10
Speaker
All right. Please share, subscribe, and shout out this podcast episode to all your fellow nature lovers. Help us spread a little bird joy. Peace, homies. Thank you. Peace.