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The Art of Nature with Shane Alden
421 Plays9 hours ago
In this inspiring episode of The Bird Joy Podcast, Jason and Dexter sit down with Shane Alden Edwards, better known online as The Wild Dryad. A self-taught illustrator and botanist, Shane has captured the hearts of over half a million nature lovers through his vibrant educational content centered on plants, ecology, and outdoor learning.
From early creative roots in aquaponics and drawing, to leading community workshops in partnership with The Conservation Foundation and The Field Museum of Natural History, Shane shares how art and education can work together to nurture a deeper relationship with the natural world.
We talk about the joy of native plants, the importance of experiential learning, and how community and creativity can foster healing for both people and the planet.
Topics Covered:
- Shane’s journey into botany through art and aquaponics
- How acting and improv shape his unique teaching style
- Building inclusive, community-centered environmental education
- The importance of native plants for birds, biodiversity, and ecosystems
- Memorable experiences studying ecology in North America and Southeast Asia
- What it’s like to grow an online community of over 500,000 nature lovers
- Tips for beginners who want to start exploring plants and botany
- Hopes for the future of conservation, education, and environmental justice
- Finding joy through connection with plants and nature
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Transcript
Introduction to Bird Joy Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
You're tuned in to season three of the Bird Joy podcast, hosted by Dexter Patterson and Jason Hall. This podcast is for all the homies across the globe, a place to celebrate birds, community, and joy together.
00:00:15
Speaker
We're back with more stories from the birding world, more voices doing dope work in STEM, and more reasons to get outside and enjoy the birds. Are you ready for some bird joy? Let's go. Welcome back, homies. Welcome back to another episode of the Bird Joy podcast, where we celebrate the beauty of nature, community, and the joy it brings to our lives.
Shane Alden: A Journey into Botany
00:00:37
Speaker
And today, folks, we have a fascinating guest joining Shane Alden, also known as the Wild Dryad on social media. Shane is a self-taught illustrator, botanist, and educator-based artist.
00:00:50
Speaker
In Chicago, Shane's journey into botany began through art and aquaponics, and today he has built a thriving community of over 500,000 people by sharing his passion and joy for plants, ecology, and outdoor education. Yeah, Shane has collaborated with notable organizations, and including the Conservation Foundation and the Field Museum of Natural History, leading workshops and teaching others about edible wild plants and sustainable ecosystems.
00:01:17
Speaker
His mission is all about creating a healthy environment through hands-on learning and research, helping people reconnect with the natural world around them. Today, folks, we are going to explore what sparked Shane's love for plants, how his creativity and education intersect, and his hopes for the future of botany, conservation, and community learning. Let's go! Let's go, Shane! Welcome to the Bird Joy Podcast, man. Hello, hello, and thanks for me on. I feel like it's such a grand summary of what I'm doing, so it's great to be on. You are a grand dude.
00:01:52
Speaker
You really are, man. You really are. And we're so excited. Like Jason and I, when we talked about what we wanted season three to look like, you're exactly the type of person that we want our audience to hear from. You're young, you're only 20 years old and you love nature. There's so many different ways that this is this conversation can go. Just share a little bit about how your love for plants and botany first blossomed. Oh man, I feel like every time people ask me that question, I give a different answer.
00:02:21
Speaker
And I think because it's multiple factors. So I'll lay them out and then I'll tell like a brief summary. I think one of the reasons was it was like a little bit post pandemic and like right when it happened around 2020, 2021, And I was kind of like depressed and like, oh, yeah. So i was kind of like, you know, finding an outline space for stuff.
00:02:40
Speaker
The second thing is that my sister was looking up research on permaculture and aquaponics. So was seeing that kind of in the background, like on YouTube and stuff. I was like, okay. So they kind of the seed was planted there. And the other thing, there's this guy on YouTube called Atomic Shrimp that did like foraging in the UK. And he would do it like how to survive off of a pound a day. He's like, all right, I'm getting beans and toast and then I'm going to go out pick the rest of my food. I'm like, wait, what? You can just go outside and recognize plants and pigs. I'm like, that's cool.
00:03:10
Speaker
Let me just learn stuff that's in
Early Foraging Adventures
00:03:12
Speaker
my environment. So in my backyard, um I think in 2021, I just started drawing and illustrating stuff that was in my yard. And then anything that I saw that had an edible use, I researched and then just tried it.
00:03:25
Speaker
So in our yard, we had staghorn sumac growing. And I was like, wait, people put it in hummus and cook it in lemonade. There's a whole bunch of stuff you can do with it. And I remember the first time I picked it, my mom and sister were like, oh, like what? You just got that like fruit or plants or berries. What are you doing? ah And I tried it and didn't die. so I'm like, oh, this is actually really good. yeah so Like the black forager Alexis would say, don't I feel like that's ah that's a that's a common theme, right? A common scientific theme, right? Where like, if we get a bird ID wrong, we're good. We're still going home that day. So, you know, it's pretty is's pretty dope, man, um that you that you took that.
00:04:09
Speaker
And you mentioned aquaponics and your your sister was doing research and that that had a connection with drawing plants? Like were you were you led to that first or was you just kind of went down a rabbit hole with just exploring things outside? So like, how did you kind of connect what you were curious about with how you were expressing that, whether it's through drawing or creating your things on socials. Yeah. So the first thing is that like I think um when I was learning, and when I was seeing her do aquaponics research, i was like, man, I want to do that. But now realized, man, it's expensive on the front end and I do not want to kill any fish.
00:04:42
Speaker
So I'm like, let me just learn about plants first.
Art and Botany Connection
00:04:45
Speaker
And I also already had a background in drawing and doing painting and things like that. I used to paint shoots as so like a side hustle for stuff or do like smaller like portraits and stuff. A lot of landscaping before I even got into this, which is interesting. But I started, i think the connection was, li if I learn about the plants first, I can have a foundation to be able to do aquaponics.
00:05:05
Speaker
I have yet to do aquaponics yet. I think I've kind of immersed myself in this space. So I think at some point in my life, I do want to do aquaponics still, but I'm just, the plants called my name. Hey, listen, speak it into existence. All right. am mean, we any aquaponics companies out there that need to sponsor a bright young man to get them into it, let's do it. Get it out there. get to right here He's right here for you. You know what I love? Like when you first came across my feed, like your presence on camera, like you're so like warm and welcoming and like you're so easy to listen to and learn from. And you have a background in acting and improv, which I think is really cool and unique for a botanist and educator. How has that shaped the way that you teach and connect with communities, especially communities of color?
00:05:51
Speaker
Well, I definitely think that it's kind of a, I wanted to be an actor initially and it didn't, it was during the pandemic to around the same time. And I was like, man, I do not want to do auditions over zoom and like doing dancing for apps and stuff. I'm like, this is not it.
00:06:08
Speaker
I think I kind of, I liked being able to do like stuff, theater and stuff, because if you perform in front of people, And you bomb that night. It's okay because you get to redo it the next night. Like you're doing different things in theater. And I like being able experiment. and You get an immediate feedback reaction with an audience versus doing on camera work. But I think it's kind of opened me up to be a lot more comfortable and like kind of have like, I don't know, being able to like lay out information well and like present it in a way that's fun.
00:06:36
Speaker
So I think it's kind of an outlet like teaching is an outlet for me to still do that improv and performative nature because you have to tailor information to what people's needs are. A big phrase I've been saying a lot lately is meeting people where they're at.
00:06:49
Speaker
And definitely I think people have many different ways of being able to learn and teach themselves or ways of learning. So I really try to just give people context, like how can this relate to somebody and how are they able to apply it from day to day?
00:07:01
Speaker
First starting out, you don't know what goldenrod or sumac is. You just know, oh, these are these purple or like yellow flowers, right? So how do people, what's in people's day-to-day lives and how can you relate that to them to expand out? That's science, communication, and action. Yeah. you might have just been talking about birds there because we have we have a similar approach meeting people where they are. It's it's so great to hear that. And you know you've been you've led these classes, taught these classes for the Conservation Foundation and the and the Field Museum.
00:07:32
Speaker
What has been one of your most memorable or favorite experiences so far in
Teaching and Hands-On Learning Experiences
00:07:36
Speaker
doing that? Any any he come to mind? Oh, man. I think it's so hard because each individual class has its own like things that are great to offer. I think the most like dynamic class I did was with the Field Museum because that was like an overnight like summer camp thing.
00:07:53
Speaker
style thing. And like I took, it was like a teen internship group and I took them out. I think, I don't remember the preserve, but it was out in the West preserves of like the Cook County, Chicagoland area. i taught them foraging and plant identification. And then we found mushroom, like oyster mushrooms and things like that. And I taught them prepare and cook them over a campfire. It was like,
00:08:15
Speaker
There, I was able to do everything in the field. like This is how you identify. This is how you get onions and different things. And you can cook and forge all these things right here in the same place. So I thought that was like probably the most dynamic one. That's so cool, too. You're a young adult, 20 years old, and you're sitting here teaching teens. Talk about related business. right? Like as an educator myself, like I'm just like, wow, this phrase that I love, if you can see it, you can be it. But if you can see it, you can be it and do it like that is next level impact. It really kind of matches up well with your mission of this hands on learning and um teaching people about creating healthy environments.
00:08:54
Speaker
Why do you think that expert, you know, that experiential education is so powerful when it comes to the natural world? especially when it I can relate it to like botany. I think it's really hard to get an understanding of plants and things in this space because you don't have context. If i were to if you were to go into like academia or go into traditional schooling of doing this,
00:09:17
Speaker
Which I'm not saying one or is inherently better or worse than the other, but if you're learning about cell bio or like plant cell bio or morphology, you don't understand why you're learning. It's like, oh, I got to remember all these names and parts.
00:09:29
Speaker
And you don't have the context for why it's applied. When I first started learning about plants, it was just going out and learning the information. OK, this smells like this. This tastes like this. And as I've learned more, I'm OK, well, what pollinators are attracted to it?
00:09:42
Speaker
What kind of areas do I see stinging nettle or something more? Is it more wetland? Is it more dry? And then you start to ask these questions naturally that as you would have you progressing. So now I'm like, okay, now i'm learning about ecology and different environments and stuff. Right. And then you can start like, well, what fungal or like diseases are affecting these plants? Now I need a microscope. Now I can look under and then it starts expanding out to learning it that way.
00:10:05
Speaker
versus So I think like that experiential learning kind of makes you ask those natural questions as opposed to kind of why am i learning this obscure pathogen on this plant? And a lot of it is just memorization in class to like just remember these parts, you remember these um kinds of plants that are in the area and it's not applied to have context for why it matters. You're self-taught in so
Challenges of Being Self-Taught
00:10:27
Speaker
many areas. Like, what's that been like for you? Is it empowering? Like, what has that done to your life? You know, your your confidence, the way you see the world. Walk us through that process of self-teaching yourself all these amazing things.
00:10:40
Speaker
It's, I feel so mixed about it. I'm equally excited and like, I'm prideful about like, yeah, I'm self-taught and i've been doing this for a little bit and I've like met different people. But I want to say that I'm self-taught, but I'm not self-made.
00:10:52
Speaker
And I've had a lot of different mentors and people who've taught me different things. And by people who've invited me out to do different things, I've also learned and gave information. It's transactional too. With me posting online, I'll post a video about something and people are like, oh, I used to do this or my grandma used to do this. And then that would be ah write a right question like, okay, is this true? And that would give me base to be able to research more and base off of it.
00:11:14
Speaker
I think... It is unique because it it allowed me to have a different perspective and teach really well. It's allowed me to be able to have a, I think, a broader understanding and I've also traveled a few different places. So I'm able to apply like large general context and overview to plants and botany.
00:11:29
Speaker
i think the struggle or like the thing I've been finding a hard time with is getting some like, I don't know if credibility is the right word, but experiential knowledge, you don't have like a paper or anything to say that, hey, I've done this or, hey, I've been doing this for X amount of time.
00:11:43
Speaker
So being able to like, I don't know, find a job in that sense, or be able to get, I don't know, approval or acceptance from like at people in academia, right? You have to constantly keep proving what you know, which I don't necessarily mind in the sense like I want people to question like I would not want someone to believe everything that I say or anyone says that space by like yes have questions that's natural but I think it's a different dynamic one if you're black and brown right or like or might like you're trying to navigate that space and it's already the well how do you know this or like questioning your knowledge so you have to keep proving yourself in that space so it's been mixed
00:12:18
Speaker
I think overall on a good day, I'm having like, yes, I'm doing this and I'm hopefully carving out a path where other people are able to do a similar route that's a little bit more untraditional. Sounds like Jay, that imposter syndrome conversation we've had. Yeah. Yeah. We've had this conversation because there's a lot of, there's a lot of folks in in that the the STEM fields and I'm a benchtop biochemist by training. Right. And, and, you know, we have these conversations around what actually provides value as a science communicator, right out to the public. And, um, just hearing you talk about the experiential learning and and thinking about how, when I was in school, I, I didn't, I didn't want to sit down and learn about how a bird's physiology makes an egg.
00:13:03
Speaker
Right. Like I didn't necessarily think that was super interesting. But I would have thought it was more interesting had I been outside looking at a nest while we were talking about it or actually experiencing the species of bird that we were talking about. And I think that's where there's still some gaps that have to be fixed because you are you are providing a pathway for a lot of people to get out into nature and to understand these things. And and just like you were creeping on your sister's aquaponics videos, right? Like people are people are people are creeping on your Instagram like, well, let me go outside and see what's in my park and see what's in my backyard, right? Yeah.
00:13:36
Speaker
And so how do we take that and put that in a space where they can not only have that as a passion, but potentially ah a career and and something that they pursue in life? And that gap between that and what academia thinks you should be is is pretty large. I would say, you know, just keep at it for sure.
00:13:51
Speaker
Right. I mean, I think these opportunities are going to open themselves, but me and Dexter both certainly feel you when you say you have to continually prove yourself over and over again as you enter new spaces, you know, because of who you are and Because you might not have a piece of paper. Like, I don't have anything that says I'm an ornithologist, right? But I know enough about birds to be out there educating a the community and bringing people into it, right? And so having to prove myself to those other nonprofits and partners and donors and all this other stuff is a little tough sometimes for sure. Sometimes exhausting.
00:14:21
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it is. Oh, I feel it, bro. Like the last couple of years, I just wrote a field guide for birds in the Great Lakes region. And I was telling folks, i'm proud I'm the first black man to do that. Write a field guide about birds. And I have a degree in communications. I'm not certified on the thought, you know, this ornithologist. I've been burning for 20 years. You know, I've been in the field paying attention to birds and learning them and documenting them and taking their pictures and learning about their behaviors and teaching people about that for a long time. I get it. I get it, Shane. Like there's just like this,
00:14:58
Speaker
Ah, it's a struggle. It's a struggle. It's frustrating. But at the same time, there's also people out there that are that want to be gatekeeping and feel like yeah they they've had control over this for so long. And then they see these young black men coming into this space with a whole different energy, right? With a whole different energy. We're not stuffy about it. We're welcoming. We're embracing it. We're not talking down on people. Right. Like you mentioned earlier, Shane, about meeting people where they are. We're having two way conversations.
00:15:28
Speaker
we're We're literally having two way conversations where people feel like they're with us in the field. Right. Like that is different. That is different than just saying, hey, read my research paper. I'm i'm the expert on this. You better listen to me. And what i love about you is your willingness to collaborate, to learn. That's only going to make you better at what you do. So, brother, please do not stop. doing what you're doing because you are needed. You are certified.
00:15:54
Speaker
You are valid. Your knowledge is different, right? In the way that you present it. And I think that's why you've built such an amazing community because you are different. And I think people are intimidated by that.
00:16:06
Speaker
i'd I'd say so too. And there's two to me, there's two indicators of that you mentioned. And I'm sure maybe both of you experienced this, right? It's like a good way that I can tell if people are like, or have like trauma with like people talking down on them is if you go into a space and you're meeting people for the first time they go, Oh, well, I'm not I know I'm not a like, I know I'm not a degreed botanist. so I'm not like the other botanists or other people around here. But Like, why why why do you feel that way? Why do you have to preface?
00:16:33
Speaker
like i mean Like, it's okay, we're all here to learn the information. And that's like a big, like, doop, like, okay. like What is the space saying? Like, how does what are the other space have you been in? or is this space like that, you know?
00:16:45
Speaker
That talking down gatekeeping thing is is rough, you know? It is. It is. and And I think, but that's, this you know, creating a community where you can bring people in you know, take down that shield for them.
00:16:57
Speaker
And, you know, cause we get it all the time, you know, people, it's funny. I was at ah bird walk this morning and, and you know, he got, we we had something called a little sit where we go to a place called Bartram's garden, historic garden in Philly, you know, been around for a hundred plus years or so. And we just sit, it's an accessible event. and we let the birds kind of come to us as a tree canopy.
00:17:16
Speaker
And so a lot of people, their first time birding will be at this event. It's in the springtime, they're getting outside after the winter. And I can tell at beginning, it's just a number of folks that haven't really made a friend yet. theyre just kind of walking around, looking at their phone. They got a pair of binoculars. They're trying to figure out what they should be doing.
00:17:32
Speaker
And I'll go talk to them and be like, and the first thing they'll say is, well, I'm not really a birder, but I just came today. And I'm like, what are you... I feel like you're not a birder, right? Like you're holding binoculars. You came to a birding event, but I think cause it may be things that they see online or otherwise or conversations they've had with adjacent people that make them feel like they have to meet some threshold first to say, I enjoy it. Like i always compare it to basketball. It's like, if you go to the park on Saturday to play basketball, you're,
00:17:59
Speaker
I don't care if you're the worst basketball player in the world. You're in that moment. You're a basketball player, right? You are a basketball player. I don't care if you, you know, you don't have to be playing on your high school team or in college or in the NBA. Like if you love, like if you play the trumpet, even if you're the worst trumpet player in the world, you are a musician.
00:18:16
Speaker
Right. Right. Like birding it to me is the same thing. It's, it's the journey. It's the process. So yeah immediately telling people like, Hey, let that go. Right. You can do this at your pace.
00:18:27
Speaker
Right. Which they have usually never heard. And I'm imagining people that come out to your walks, get the, get the same thing. Like you have to break them down and show them that they are valid and should be there. Right. Yeah.
00:18:38
Speaker
You know, the reason why I say that, say it like that, I feel like in my personal, like some of my events that I've led at this point now, a lot of people are really comfortable and it's like, I don't really sense that. It depends on what event I go to or like where the area is, I've noticed. Sometimes it's more, eh.
00:18:56
Speaker
like you know like as an example i went to there's a minnesota shade tree course out in minnesota and they invited me out to do uh two foraging talks there and these are people who are deep in forestry parts academia like blue collar like it's a new it's a mix of that like less i could more so like like trade workers and things like that okay now asking like has anyone ever done foraging or anything like this before like has anyone ever like tried these things or like what kind of plants do you think of when you see in a lawn your stuff like that and then everyone's like
00:19:29
Speaker
it's It's silence. And it's like, well, there's no, this is not a trick question. Like genuinely, what do you see? There's no wrong answers to this. People feeling like there's going to be a wrong answer. They're going to be shut down. yeah now It really depends on the space that you're in. you know I feel like it's transitioned in my space more, a little bit more open. um I think maybe because of the platform or like the open accessibility of it.
00:19:51
Speaker
I don't know. But for the most part, it's been a little bit, it's been gotten gotten better over the years. People see you, right? They see themselves in you. Younger folks, especially people of color, they're like, wow, like, yeah, plants are for me.
Gatekeeping in Botanical Fields
00:20:04
Speaker
That's that's the same way I think about with birds. Dude, yesterday, y'all, I was out at this little this little park that I like after. We had a bird and walk yesterday, but I went back out. It's spring. I'm out like multiple times a day and and I'm walking through and this lady, she's walking her dog. She's like, Smoking a cigarette. And it's like, then she like stands and she's like, are you bird seeing?
00:20:26
Speaker
I was like, yeah, I'm bird watching. And i was like, I like this. It's a beautiful little habitat. She said, well, I would say otherwise. I know plants. And this was really weird. And I was like, what what so what's that supposed to mean? And she was like, well, I mean, they're trying to do some things. So there's a lot of invasive species like buckthorn and stuff. And like they've been kind of ripping this stuff out. And I was like, I don't know about you, I said, but it's way better than it was two years ago, three years ago. And I was like, it takes some time. Right. They're trying to restore this place. And in that moment, that was the top down. I'm an expert. I work with plants every day. She said this multiple times. And I was like, I said, well, I'm a I'm a burden. I was like, I'm learning plants, right? Like I'm starting to learn plants and their habitats. And was like, look, was like, they're ripping out all these invasives. They're cutting down trees that aren't native. I said, I think they're doing a great job. And she got really quiet. And then she like later on, she comes back around. I was like, look, I said, look at all this. Look at all these trees they're cutting down and look at all the work that they've been doing. And again, she's like, Well, I got a long way to go. And like, it was just like this talking down on me. And I was like, you realize that they're volunteers and they're restoring this beautiful little area. And I was like, wow. I was like, I just was like, I looked at her, you know, I'm i'm kind of like a where my emotions on my sleeve guy.
00:21:47
Speaker
Yeah. I looked at her like, if you don't get your way from me, try to take my very joy away. That was one of those moments where I was like, that's exactly why we started our club. That's is exactly why I teach the way I teach because of people like you.
00:22:07
Speaker
yeah Oh, yeah. Dexter's story is a good it's a good kind of crossover of the those two kind of thought processes coming together between birds and plants. And they're you know they're super interconnected. And I think a lot of times as birders, we are unaware of what should be happening with the native plants in a space, right? Like we do, you know we we certainly promote planting natives. And you know out here, everybody's got these stupid Bradford pear trees that I just want to chop down every time I see them. um Milkweed for butterflies and and you know leave your leaves and you know definitely with our native flowers, right leaving them so that the birds can get the seeds in the fall. like you know We talk about stuff like that. That aspect of things, we don't necessarily, at least I don't in my club, have a lot of education on. And so can you tell the people why native plants are so good for ecosystems, right? And and maybe we can talk a little bit about any crossover you've had with how that could impact any bird or or other wildlife populations in your in your space. Yeah, i've I've got two thoughts. I'll answer the question. I'll i'll circle back the Bradford pair because i that's the only one. Okay, please. um I think there's a lot of misconfusion, like there's a lot of confusion with what invasive species actually are. I think to the public, they mix weedy plants, which there's, there's no defined plant for weeds. Weeds are just plants that are under an undesirable place.
00:23:29
Speaker
com People be like, oh, that's a weed or that's invasive. And it's like, well, maybe you just don't want it there. It's not necessarily invasive. um can Can I give a brief like overview? Please, that's what we want from you, brother.
00:23:43
Speaker
So native species are ones that are local and have historical context in a certain region. They've evolved there and they've evolved with a local ecology. So they play a part naturally different birds, aquatic.
00:23:54
Speaker
They're naturally in that space. Now, then you have non-native species. These are species that are introduced but are not necessarily invasive, meaning that they don't outcompete native species and they aren't negatively impacting the environment.
00:24:07
Speaker
An example that we could think of right now with that is Dutch clover. Some space like white clovers. Those are not native to the U.S. or apples, right? Apples are not endemic to the U.S. But there's many species of crab apples that are all naturalized throughout the region. So a lot of the times, like when we think of these things, these are plants that are just naturally just kind of growing or doing their own.
00:24:28
Speaker
Another example would be like European grass, so like turf grass that you see. Also not native in the U.S. But... not necessarily impacting the environment in a negative way, though, you know, it's like, mono we won't get into that. But that's kind of like a good recent overview.
Understanding Plant Species
00:24:43
Speaker
And invasive species are ones that are not only non native, so not endemic to the region, but are negatively impacting the environment. So you mentioned Bradford pears, those i wrote are roto from Europe from for the horticultural trade, because they like they're a beautiful ornamental, right? They open up like early spring, at least white flowers.
00:25:00
Speaker
Side note, what do you all smell from? and People say they stink. I'm curious what other people get when they smell them. They don't smell great. They don't smell great. They have a very... They got really pretty blooming flowers a certain amount of time. You guys don't have them out there, Duxer? Then they stink. Yeah, they smell like a particular bodily fluid is what people compare them to out here. So... I would, you just Google that if you want to folks. The thing here too, is they are, they're just everywhere. Like they're all up and down the highway. They, and they just, they're right out there collecting energy first thing in spring, you know, and my assumption is that they're out competing, at least in terms of space. Plus they're really fragile trees. So people have them in all these parks and stuff and the branches break off really easily. You know, and they're just they're just everywhere. And like someone I think originally folks thought they were sterile when they brought them over, I thought. And and then, you know, boom, they're just all over.
00:25:57
Speaker
To add to that, too, to play into the birds part, they're spread by birds and by squirrels. A lot of these invasive species are spread by birds because they'll eat them out of desperation if they're hungry or if they just like the taste of them.
00:26:09
Speaker
Another example of an invasive is like white mulberries, which were initially brought over for the silk trade, for silk production, things like that. But birds will eat them. They can't tell the difference. They taste good. And then they'll go and cook them out. Wherever birds go, you'll find mulberries.
00:26:24
Speaker
So a lot of the times along fences and roads, you'll find a lot of the same common invasive species, red for pear, mulberries, ah things like that. I didn't even think of that.
00:26:34
Speaker
Yeah. And the birds like those tree lines and those those kind of edge habitats a lot of times and they'll just right there. Wow. That breakdown. I'm so glad that you did go down the list on that and give us that breakdown. And I have been, you know, I've been pretty proud. I've been planting not only some like milkweed, but I got my wild bergamots. I got my pale purple cone flowers and all these different black guide Susans. I've been planting all these types of things around my house. So i'm I'm actually really, they're also really pretty, but then again, good for the environment, good for the pollinators, good for the birds, all seasons. So I'm really excited about that. You've traveled.
00:27:14
Speaker
um I was looking at doing some research on on your story and you've traveled to study ecology, not only here in North America, but also Southeast Asia.
Ecological Studies in Southeast Asia
00:27:23
Speaker
What's one place or plant discovery that left a really a lasting impact on you? Truly, I wish it was more of a like, oh, this is rare, like species, but truly.
00:27:35
Speaker
i love but you For context, too, I was in Indonesia. So I was in ah Bali for about two and a half months. And then I also went to Thailand and Singapore. So I got to see the botanic gardens out that way and also research some culture and different medicinal properties of some of the plants out there.
00:27:51
Speaker
Two things that stood out to me when I first got there. One of them is that they had blood berry, which is related to American pokeweed. That's just okay i make that region. So that was a cool one. It's like, oh it's it's a connection here.
00:28:02
Speaker
Yeah, we got those all over over here. Yeah. yeah Yeah. The other thing was, at least for me, was durian. I had tried durian for the first time over there. And a local folklore about is that you're not supposed to drink and eat durian at the same time. Supposedly, I don't know how true it is. I haven't looked into it. That it's...
00:28:20
Speaker
increases your body's absorption to alcohol. And Shane did not know this. The drinking age in Bali is 18. I was like, you know, I'm going to get, I met a friend over there who is from Scotland. You know, he's like, oh, ah you know, we tried some of the local, they do, um it's called a rack, which is like a home brewed alcohol there, like a vodka they make. And you can't tell the percentage on it.
00:28:44
Speaker
hot. You have to ask, like if you go to a restaurant, you have to ask like, hey, do you have it? And they'll both ways and be like, yeah, one moment. So I tried that with a friend of mine, Martin, that I met there and had some of the most intense ah like alcohol poisoning of my life.
00:29:02
Speaker
like two three times I was like, oh no. And now I just associate the smell of durian. So was like, oh no. Can't it anymore. he was out there he was out there like them cedar wax wings, just tipsy, leaning.
00:29:18
Speaker
That awesome. I've been there. I've been there. That's why I can't drink Mad Dog 2020 anymore, because had one bad night in school. but It's funny how those smell associations carry with you for those things, right? Traumatized. Yeah, and I was going to ask you...
00:29:36
Speaker
I was going to ask you earlier on, right? Because, you know, we were joking about the same saying, you know, don't, I didn't die. So, you know, i figured it out. Have you had any of those experiences while you're trying to explore in the outdoors and like you like maybe taste or touch something that maybe you shouldn't have and you learned a lesson? So, okay. ah Three things so I don't forget. There's another plant Indonesia called a soda plant or a shashwan peppers that's ah unique there. And it's like, it feels like a nine volt battery in your mouth.
00:30:03
Speaker
Like if you bite into it, it doesn't, no, no, no. Like it doesn't hurt, but like it kind of, not it's like getting like, it kind of like numbs your mouth it's the most i'm an 80s baby we used to yeah it's the most like unique feeling you'll get it'll like numb your mouth out so it's also called a toothache plant because you can like jam it in the back your mouth it'll like numb the area i've it's the most unique feeling so i'd probably put that up there but wow the toothache plant i'm just learning so much i'm just like i know yeah it's just mind-blowing I also want to forget, what was the question? Because it was about two, oh, poisoning myself.
00:30:39
Speaker
Yes. It's only ever happened twice. So that was the first time and in when I was in Bali, but think was more so the alcohol. The other time was i got pawpaw sickness. um Oh. I didn't know that was a thing.
00:30:55
Speaker
So for context, pawpaws are a native fruit to the US. And it's one of the few like tropical like tasting fruits that you could find in the region. They flower early spring. So right now you'd go out and pollinate them. They're pollinated by flies. And then they start to ripen and mature going into late August, September.
00:31:14
Speaker
You can only eat them when they are fresh fallen from the tree and you cannot eat the skins or the seeds. It takes a lot to get them to fruit. And they're also like a historic plant. The giant mammoths used to eat them. They're a really cool plant. that's um Don't they take... So there's this like project going on. It's so crazy. You mentioned pawpaws in Wisconsin where this this person is trying to bring it back.
00:31:35
Speaker
um And they were talking about that it's such an extensive process because it takes five to seven years. Like if you grow them to even get fruit. But then, like you said, they fall and they're only good for a couple of days or whatever it may be. So like... That is fascinating. Yeah.
00:31:50
Speaker
that's fine Yeah. And after that too, if you're ever wondering like, hey, this wild plant is good. Why is it not sold commercially? You could either assume that it takes lot of processing or it's just not shelf stable enough to be a commercial product.
00:32:02
Speaker
And when you think about that, think about how much fruit you're missing out on globally that you people don't have access to. truly It's not commercially. It's not it's not um profitable.
00:32:12
Speaker
Right. Yeah. So that's another cool thing like that. But so with the pawpaw sickness too, i had made some I had had pawpaw cookies before a friend of mine had made them and I was like, Oh, okay, you can make them in a cookie. So I had foraged them last year, gathered a bunch from separate the skins and the seeds. I did everything right. You can make it I made an ice cream. So I'm like, this is good. so then I was like, Well, I'm gonna make some pawpaw bread and cookies.
00:32:35
Speaker
you know everybody makes those those seem good so shane mixed it together i have i think i have a picture on my instagram where i can send you all a picture but it was this beautiful spread of like oatmeal like kitchen sink cookie pawpaws with like bread i'm like man this looks delicious they call my mom in here to try one so we both had a cookie and about three hours later we had a three-hour grace period and it's like uh-oh
00:32:59
Speaker
You got mom too? You took mom down with you? Oh, no. Unfortunately, yeah. She was throwing up and then I didn't throw up, but I had i was severely nauseous like two or three days after the fact. Oh, man. So apparently, people have some people have a sensitivity to cooked pawpaw. Whether it be a certain cook temp that you make it or just like the um ah the amount of pawpaw that you consume, some people have a sensitivity to it.
00:33:23
Speaker
I don't know if it was a cook temp for me or if it was the amount because it was more concentrated in the cookie or bread that we have. I think it was a cooking temp because I had the cookies before and was okay. Maybe I didn't make them or process them right. But some people are severely sensitive and get food poisoning, no matter if they remove the seeds and skins or not. So that was the first time where I was like, oh, oh no.
00:33:43
Speaker
Actually... Has your mom tried anything since that you've made? Oh, yeah. Okay, so she still loves you then. but because Definitely, she was like, you know, up until then, and that i I always reiterate, like wait 24 to 48 hours after eating a small dosage or something, even if it's broadly edible, and see how your body reacts to it.
00:34:07
Speaker
That's a good point. Because what may be sensitive may what may be sensitive to me may not work for you. Like I know my sister has an extreme sensitivity to chicken of the woods. Like if she eats and just a little bit, she'll start getting gastro like gas and gastrointestinal issues from it.
00:34:21
Speaker
So she can't eat that much. Right. But it's different for different people. Sure. That makes sense. And, you know, that's the kind of stuff I think is so cool that everything that you share on socials is these little nuggets of information. And it's so relatable. How has that been?
Social Media and Plant Knowledge Sharing
00:34:35
Speaker
I mean, 20 years old, over 500,000 followers, people are tuning in, listening. You know, how does that feel? How has that been like feeling like, wow, so many people are interested in what I have to say about this? You just like kind of wake up every day, kind of pinching yourself or what?
00:34:52
Speaker
i think so I think the first year it was unbelievable. For context too, a friend of mine was also another forager in the Chicagoland area and he used to want to encourage me to post on social media because TikTok was new at the time. And i wasn't I was never really into social media. I would just post my art from time to time. You can still see that on my socials now, like old artwork that I used to do. And I was like, i don't really like TikTok. What am I going to, you know, I didn't really like it. And then he was like, just post on there. like Just like make some videos and post. So yeah.
00:35:18
Speaker
I did one video like to introduce myself as Shane Alden and like come learn with me as I learned foraging. And the second video I posted was about Dryad Saddle. And as I was recording it, a guy came in, ah was walking the trail and asked me what I was doing. And I taught him in the video. Wow. That was the second video that I ever did. That's cool.
00:35:36
Speaker
A couple million views. Sweet Lord. All the platforms for it. So after that, that's also why I got the name ah wild dryad because it's dryad saddle mushroom. A dryad is a nymph or protector of the woods.
00:35:50
Speaker
It's the first mushroom I ever learned how to identify and forage comfortably. And it's the video that got me to do what I'm doing now. So it's very serendipity. Oh, that's so dope. That's such a cool story. Awesome. Talk about proof of concept, you know? Yeah. Yeah. yeahp i You were right, my friend. I should be posting this stuff.
00:36:09
Speaker
that is So cool. That is so cool. think it's equally amazing as it is terrifying, too. I've gotten a lot of fair share of like creepy people online messaging me, especially when it was at the ah like height of a lot of messages and stuff.
00:36:23
Speaker
A lot of people trying to take advantage, right? Like, oh, I see your illustrations, right? Let's do this book or let's do this. Fortunately enough, my mom used to do theater in college and kind knew a little bit of like what that was like and I feel like had lot of protection with a lot of stuff that I could have opened myself up to. I also have my fair share of experience too that I learned from and grew from too.
00:36:47
Speaker
I think in terms of like being able to post online, I think the first year was like, oh my gosh, people are, I'm getting thousands of comments and deep messages. This is insane. And the first year, i still think this is surreal. This is surreal. And it's still that way, especially you forget a little bit of like what the word, and you can't really see the impact you're doing. And then I'll be going to the beauty supply stores and be like, are you the dude that posted about plants on Instagram? And I'm like, you know, ah and like that's it's lot it's tripped out, you know, in those moments, it still doesn't feel real.
00:37:20
Speaker
But I think it's. it' It's forced me to mature and grow a lot too. like i it' like I think there's a lot of like comment negative comments and stuff. In the first year, i remember I was focusing on every single one responding. i'm like People would correct me and they didn't know what they were talking about. I'm going to show them.
00:37:39
Speaker
That's like that plant lady on the trail yesterday. It's those kind of people. you Yeah. Yeah. It's good. i'm I'm glad that you that you realize block out the haters. I mean, first of all, if you don't have any, you're not probably doing something that's huge. Yeah.
00:37:54
Speaker
um So you're going to you're going to get that regardless. I just block them and I just move on. I don't don't got time for them. I'd rather spend time with the people in the community. And that's beautiful community that you've built. And kind of going on to that, what advice would you give someone that's curious about botany or unsure where to start or, man, should I should be sharing this information with people? um But just in general, what's some advice you would give somebody curious about plants?
00:38:20
Speaker
Learn what you want to learn and don't let other people muddy the water of what you have to learn or feel like you should. I feel like I've really been trying to navigate that with what I want to do. I feel like I'm like, oh, well, maybe I want to go back to school and get that research knowledge to be able to work in a lab. But like, I don't want to do that.
00:38:36
Speaker
The only reason why I do that is because I'd get the sheet of paper in and be like, oh, well, you know, I now people can believe and people still wouldn't. You know, I've got there's a guy Derrick Haynes or chocolate botanist on Instagram that. that we talked to a lot. Me and me and him have talked in like med before. he's He's really cool, but he goes for that too.
00:38:53
Speaker
And he's got his degree in botany and talks about it all the time and still gets the questioning. So then I'm like, well, I'd still have me prove people wrong, like either way. yeah you know So now it's like, just do what you want to do and learn it.
00:39:05
Speaker
If you want to learn about plants and like draw and illustrate, there's a place for that. If you want to be able to learn about plants or like doing different things in that way or learn to do the research and are out in the field, you know, research that. It's whole many different avenues you can get learned from.
00:39:19
Speaker
Might as well be happy, right? Might as well be fulfilled in the work that you do. And you're, you are cracking open that just piece of excitement for people, right? Like just, just yesterday you got me because I remember I was, I was birding one time and I was looking for a bird called a blue, ah a blue-headed vireo. And i was near this creek and I decided to go a little off trail. And I was trying to figure out where this bird was going along the trail. And I was trying to get myself into a good spot up on this hill so I could see it.
00:39:48
Speaker
And I'm walking along this trail and then i fall, right? I fall down this like little ledge into this little, i don't know, it was like a don't know, maybe a bowl or something. Like it almost looked like a tree had fallen. And you know how it leaves like when ah when a tree falls, sometimes it leaves like a huge, like just kind of cup in the middle of the forest floor.
00:40:07
Speaker
Right. But it looked like it had been there for a while and the water had just eroded it out. So I fall down into this thing and I sit up and there's just these little whimsical, uh, green plants, like these little tops, right? And I was like, what are these? And I sat there and I was just listening to the video and it's, and I don't know if I ever even told anybody about this spot, but it was only maybe like 20 yards by 20 yards and it was a circle. And these things weren't growing anywhere else in the forest, just in that little divot.
00:40:36
Speaker
And I get on Instagram yesterday and here's the homie talking about May apples. And I'm like, that's what those were. And I'm watching and I was like, oh, I didn't even think I didn't. And now I'm like, I got to go back and check are they male or female? Right. Because he gave all the information like and it was just it was so serendipitous because we knew I knew I was talking to you. And I was like, homie, it's like the the Dexter always says the universe doesn't make a mistake. I just thought that was so amazing because now I have this spark inside of me of like.
00:41:06
Speaker
I'm not gonna go look at every plant right now, but I'm gonna go look for those because of that experience and because you educated me on something, now I can i identify them and appreciate them even a little bit more. Thank you. Yeah, and and know to add to that too like it's also ah it goes both ways, right? So I put that video out yeah the other day and a guy just commented on Facebook and he was like, you know it's an oversimplification you did because there's not male and female plants to the Mayapple, it's just a branching stem because they can be either or. There's monoaceous and dioecious.
00:41:36
Speaker
Dioecious plants meaning that there's because they have the plant that has both male and female parts. Monoecious being that is, you know, mono meaning one. It's all on the same plan. There's two different things. So I was like, oh, but then, right, that's the context that I there's gaps in the knowledge that I have because I am learning untraditionally. So like in terms of the right labels and stuff to name things, you know, it's a little bit different. There's some gaps in what I know and what I'm able to communicate. So I think that's also been ah a challenging thing, too.
00:42:05
Speaker
That's the beautiful part of it. We tell people that all the time. Like, I know it's frustrating, but like, I, I get it. Right. If you were saying like, I'm Shane and I need to be the most foremost expert on all plants on this planet, respected by all humans for that particular task for the rest of my life. Yeah. There's a lot of pressure then to know everything. Right. If you're saying, Hey,
00:42:26
Speaker
i I love learning new things from people in my comments, right? I love filling in the gaps. I love the process. I love how when they ask me a question or give me extra information, I can go research it. You do the same thing with birders.
00:42:38
Speaker
Yes. You don't know what this bird is, but you got a picture of it that let's make a cup of coffee. Let's crack open the bird guide. Let's figure it out. Like that part should be fun. And a lot of people, I think instead of that being fun for them, it's pressure and it's anxiety. And so, I love that you are aware of that, you know, for yourself, because I because i think it's hard for people to have that self-awareness when they're so excited and curious and they want to pursue something that they immediately get this pressure of being an expert.
00:43:05
Speaker
Yeah. And truly, to be honest, i I do think I do put some of that on myself sometimes. But also, I think that's the outside, right? You gave me a advice to give somebody else. Like, don't let don't let that muddy the waters, you know?
00:43:16
Speaker
Like, I feel like i'm with people expect me to know all this information. And but that's what's weird about it, too. I'm i'm twenty i'm young and 20, and I'm in this space with these people in the fields, like thirty s and 20s. they were expecting me to be like do tit for tat. It's like, oh, well, you didn't know this. I'm like, yeah, I, why would I, you know, yeah just learn how to drive like four years ago, man. Cut me a break.
00:43:38
Speaker
I think that's what makes me so welcoming, though, man. yeah You're humble. You're seeking knowledge. like And and you're you're transparent about that.
00:43:48
Speaker
That's a rare quality to have as a young man, as a 20-year-old, to be that self-aware, to be that curious, to be that open. I think that's what makes you really good at what you do, man. I think that's what makes newbies, right? People that are trying to learn and even people that have been in the field ah for a while, they're they're probably like, holy cow, like what makes this dude so attractive to to all these people? And they're learning from you, whether they realize it or not. It is a tit for tat, like you said, like this, this exchange. Yeah.
00:44:17
Speaker
Just considering all of that, right? Like we talked about some of these gaps in experiential learning, curiosity for the environment, communities trying to find the right on ramp for those
Future of Technology in Botany
00:44:26
Speaker
folks. like what are your kind of hopes for the future, right? When it comes to botany education, the environment and and those particular groups that you, that you are most excited to work with?
00:44:35
Speaker
Oh man, that's so broad. Did there's some, okay. The technology, the advancement in technology, I think there's going to get to a point where my job is going to be less about identification and more about utility because going to be apps and things are going to make it so much easier. It's going to be one for one, like identification is going to be, it's going to change the world for that. um But the other thing too,
00:44:56
Speaker
I know a lot of people are ah really concerned about stuff that's happening at like overhead level with the government and like things with national parks and things like that, lack of funding to some of these institutions from an educational point.
00:45:09
Speaker
And I think it's a lot of, there's going to be, it's going to get maybe for potentially worse before it gets better. However, I do think the benefit from this is that it's going to force private and public sector to work together because there there's no there's no longer that resource there, right?
00:45:24
Speaker
And people are seeing that people in the public, right, who are doing and like environmental education are creating this whole new space and platform that is more welcoming than some of these other institutions that are playing catch up. They're not on social media or they're just creating their social medias now. I'm starting to see more. You're starting to see more institutions and like different museums the stuff start to be more vocal and try to do that community engagement now. Because now previously they didn't have that community engagement. It wasn't a priority. But now they're saying, OK, there's there's one, there's money to be made. Unfortunately, there's that. But also, you know, there's a benefit from doing community engagement.
00:45:58
Speaker
I think My hope is that this is going to force that that kind of they top down to kind of break down a little bit, at least on more of a physical level, that some of these resources are going to be more accessible to the public, access to research labs and things like that. The Chicago Mycology Club, which is not a nonprofit yet, but it's doing work around Chicago. They teach about mushrooms. Their goal is to be able to have an open research lab to where anyone can come in and learn and use the utilized stuff. So kind of like a sentence.
00:46:25
Speaker
Right. And that would that's breaking that middle gap of like having to go and pay to a other institutions in order to use to have that resource. So I think we're already seeing the changes now happen and I'm excited for it.
00:46:36
Speaker
Awesome. So awesome.
Continual Excitement in Plant Discovery
00:46:38
Speaker
I mean, like this is the Bird Joy podcast and we center around joy. That's our job on this podcast is just to showcase and put joy on a platform. And today you've done that on so many different levels. But what brings you the most joy when you're out exploring and connecting with plants?
00:46:57
Speaker
Honestly, I could see the same thing and like still get excited. I did a tour over at the Morton Arboretum. I was doing a tour over at the Morton Arboretum couple weeks ago.
00:47:07
Speaker
and i was just going on a walk. I was seeing the same stuff like carrot, mint family stuff. and I was like, okay, this is a decent walk. and Then I look over and i always think it was skunk cabbage flowers. and It's only a small window of time where you get to see skunk cabbage flowers.
00:47:23
Speaker
And I was like, you all need to come look at this plant right now. It's a very rare time to be able to see it flowering and you all get a chance to see it. Come look come look at this plant. i' like I'm surprised we even get to see it. you know and I can see the same thing and still get excited about it.
00:47:35
Speaker
So I mean, yeah I feel like every tour I go on, it's like a fresh start again. And I'm like, let's just see what we find today. you know Because sometimes it'll be dry and then you'll still find a mushroom. Like, guys, we just found a mushroom.
00:47:46
Speaker
You know, like... This is amazing. That's me, man. You guys are like the same person. One person is best, one person is best. see American Robin hopping around. I get all giddy, giddy. see a little house rancher here. And then I'm like, man, that's how I know this is this is what I'm supposed to do. Because like I get excited over and over and over and over. you just you just made my day saying that, man. That was fantastic. That was fantastic. Shane, seriously, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your inspiring story, sharing your passion for plants and education. It really kind of reminds us of just how much beauty is out there, how much wonder exists in a world. I so appreciate you joining us today.
00:48:34
Speaker
Thanks for having me on. I appreciate you all as well. This is great. and Thank you. Yeah, man. we We really loved hearing how your creativity, curiosity, and the community have shaped your work, right? And how you are just, like we said, helping thousands of others find this connection through nature consistently. So awesome. And thank you, man. And for everybody out there listening, Shane, where can they find you on social media? Remind folks where how they can connect with you.
00:48:59
Speaker
You can find me on everything except Red Note. I'm on Reddit, Pinterest, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, all under The Wild Dryad. Make it easy. Yeah, like that. I like that. go thewildryad.com.
00:49:11
Speaker
That's also, I have do foraging walks. And also, I always want to put this out there. Every book that I read, I put on a public access. um You don't necessarily have, maybe you have to buy the book, but you can see it in the Corral Curated Library on the website of everything I've been reading. I haven't updated in a little bit because I've been trying to, I've been moving.
00:49:29
Speaker
I'm trying to get like, I'm recording a wild dry ads library where I cover books. So that's still changing. Oh, that's dope. Please. If you want to see some stuff that I'm checking out, I always put those resources up there too. Some of them are public access too, and you can just have read them.
00:49:42
Speaker
Awesome. Fantastic, man. Thank you. We're going to link to all that stuff in the show notes for sure. And yeah, listen, folks, as always, whether it's the birds, the plants, any other corner of the outdoors, just please keep finding your joy out there.
00:49:55
Speaker
Yes, sir. And I want to thank everybody for joining us today on the Bird Joy podcast. We hope you've enjoyed exploring the world of plants. with us today. out to the BIPOC flock.
00:50:06
Speaker
Make sure y'all check out what we got going on. Spring is loaded with so much bird joy. And you can find that at BIPOCbirdingclub.org. Yep.
00:50:17
Speaker
And until next time, homies, shout out to the folks in Philly, In Color Birding Club, InColorbirding.org. We got ton of events coming up. Yes, sir. Please share, subscribe, and share the podcast with all your fellow nature lovers.
00:50:31
Speaker
Help us spread a little bird joy.