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OPE Season 3 Episode 21 Packers Tame Jaguars
38 Plays1 month ago
Aloha and welcome to another episode of OPE! On this episode we give our fresh, stale and moldy takes of the packers last second victory over the Jacksonville Jaguars
Please be sure to like and subscribe wherever you get your favorite pods. Also, visit our website ohanapackers.org for all our latest articles, past episodes and our merch shop!
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Transcript
Intro
Podcast Rebranding and Packers Victory Celebration
00:00:30
Speaker
Aloha and welcome back to another episode of the AHANA Packers Edition podcast. The podcast where we are rebranding, reshifting, our newly rebranded, reshifted show. But Joe, because, thankfully, because Joe is keeping finding ways to keep us fresh and avoid staleness and moldy thoughts.
00:00:50
Speaker
that is the mindwork of a tired father of two at 8 p.m. in the night on a Sunday. But Joe, the Packers pulled one out of their collective asses today.
00:01:05
Speaker
and This was the typical Florida day game, where it was like, they look good, they seem to be ahead of the sticks the whole game, dominating, you know, the the stereotypical dominating everywhere but the scoreboard kind of game. It almost bit them in the ass, thanks to stuff we'll go into in the episode, but so glad that they are coming out of this week with the victory, heading into a massive showdown with the Lions for the lead in the NFC North
Game Analysis: Packers vs. Jaguars and Upcoming Lions Showdown
00:01:35
Speaker
next week. But Joe,
00:01:37
Speaker
have you unclenched from today's game yet yeah i kind of settled on it after uh doing the post game show uh it it figures that's the way this game would go down after everybody was talking about how you know we should just run right over the Jaguars. Oh, who needs to worry about the Jaguars. And we kind of said it. And then Carlos kind of had an article about it that, you know, you can't really look past them because on paper, they have some guys on that roster that can, can flip a game. But overall, ah ah yeah, we'll get into it in our breakdown of the segments, but overall,
00:02:24
Speaker
It wasn't good, but a win is a win. And you just got to move on to the next and hope some of the things that happened today aren't long-term.
Josh Jacobs: Performance and Comparisons
00:02:34
Speaker
As we said, we have relabeled our are segments from Good Bad Ugly to Fresh Stale Moldy. Joe, fresh thoughts from today's game. What you got?
00:02:47
Speaker
oh Josh Jacobs. I mean, Josh Jacobs is really starting to be what he we thought he was going to be when he signed. I know it looked like the first couple of weeks it it didn't it wasn't going to it it didn't look like it was doing anything, but now he's putting up a ton of yards on a ton of carries and you know he's looking good. he's Talk about moves. How about that jump cut of his? That thing is sick.
00:03:25
Speaker
And, you know, they always talk about like one cut runners and, and that this guy is a jump cutter. He's got almost Devontae Adams style jump cut going on. And so yeah, I got to go with that one is definitely a fresh for me.
00:03:46
Speaker
Yeah, to just jump on that. Bill Barnwell had an article this week that there were parts of it where I understand the point he was trying to get across about you know the value in signing Josh Jacobs and all that kind of stuff.
00:04:01
Speaker
But the part I had an issue with in the article was he related he was late comparing Jacob's season to Saquon Barkley and Derek Henry's season, and because he's not at their level of production and efficiency, Jacob's is a mismanagement of resources, basically, is what he came down to.
Technical Glitches and Podcast Humor
00:04:22
Speaker
and Shoot, of course I can't find it now, but people were already tweeting at him, especially after Jacob's, uh, the second long touchdown run. And he kind of snarkily replied like, Oh, no one was saying it. Another mishap by Mike. Uh, oh. Is he done again? Christ. There he is. There he goes.
00:04:52
Speaker
oh god i love it you fixed now all right yeah let's find out all all right just to piggyback on what you were saying about josh jacobs yeah so i was referencing the bill barnwell article where relating jacobs production or lesser production comparing it to
00:05:14
Speaker
Okay, let's see how this goes. It's something with your net. Yeah, great. One week after you're having problems, I have having problems tonight. but i Josh Jacobs did not have problems rushing the ball today. And it was absolutely paramount that he had a good game today because of injury issues that Love was dealing with today. Jacobs goes and gives you five yards of carry on for a 127 yards and two massive touchdowns on
Packers' Offensive Strategy and Jordan Love's Injury
00:05:40
Speaker
the day. it was just good to see him get back above 100.
00:05:45
Speaker
I know some people are concerned about how his efficiency is and all that kind of stuff. But realistically, he's just been such a solid performer. He's given the Packers, I think he's given them everything they needed to get out of him. And he's just, you know, that's going to go into some of the other sections. But I think part of his relative lesser um production is because with love back They've put the offensive burden on Jordan's shoulders as opposed to leaning heavily on this run game like they did in the two Willis starts. And we saw it go back the other way after.
00:06:23
Speaker
We had to step into the game finish out the finish out this one after love left with the injury. So It's just really good to see Jacobs basically say like sure put it on my back again and let's go secure this win guys and At least for one week it was more than enough to or it was enough to get the win And like I said it just he's really coming around he's he's Making moves he's breaking tackles. He's being the guy that they hoped for when they signed him So, what do you do what do you got for your fresh and My fresh is having the you know, so I thought the floor like I said, this will go into you there of the
00:07:13
Speaker
latter two categories, but I thought Lafleur had some massive lulls in his play ah ah calling
Malik Willis Shines as Backup Quarterback
00:07:20
Speaker
in this game. I was it just like last week after you know Jacksonville had gone and tied it at 27 and having the gumption to call that play action. Play action.
00:07:37
Speaker
to you
00:07:41
Speaker
It was basically, basically read from the league that scored with the last touchdown against the, or not the man that played for Reade. Oh boy, it's going to be one of those night happens. All right.
00:08:05
Speaker
My fresh moment of the game was the Willis throw. know he had the touchdown pass the Tucker k craft, which was a really nice play call and sequencing. But just Lafleur having the stones to call that big play-action play, you know, Reid runs the route that Musgrave scores the his touchdown against the Cowboys in the playoff game last year on. And Willis delivers an absolutely perfect pass in that situation that Reid can run under and convert into a 51-yard catch and run.
00:08:38
Speaker
and You know, the offense really hadn't done much of anything to that point between turning the strip sack fumble, that edge force, that Wyatt recovered into touchdown, and to the point of that final drive. So it's, you know, you don't like to see that kind of a lull, especially when you're up to possessions that late in the game. But regardless, it was really good to see the offense be able to kickstart itself and secure the the win at that point.
00:09:07
Speaker
wait So was obviously my big fresh moment of the game because it did lead to the game-winning points for the afternoon you muted? Yep, so I completely agree agree So we'll just carry that into my next fresh and That's Malik Willis Because for him to come in and step up as well as he did after Jordan's injury, the you know it you can't ask for better from ah from your backup, your number two quarterback. So you know that throw was amazing. The the play call was amazing. Malik
00:09:53
Speaker
it's hard to believe this is the same guy Tennessee just discarded, you know, this, this guy that looked like he wasn't going to be able to play the game of football for any NFL team. You know, he might not have been able to make be a backup on a UFL team the way he played the last couple of years. So for him to really step in and do what he's done for the Packers for a short amount of time, because remember, I know it's still not, it's more than the three weeks he had before.
00:10:26
Speaker
but he's still only a couple months into the system. And he just seems to get more and more comfortable as he gets into the system. And like I said, on our post game show, I'm not trying to create a QB controversy here. Jordan has the deal. Jordan is the the future. There's nothing like that here going on. But with all the question marks we've always had with our backup quarterbacks right now is a really great time for the Green Bay Packers.
00:10:57
Speaker
because they have a legit backup that you're not worried about having to step in if something long-term goes on with Jordan Love.
00:11:08
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I joked about it when he came in on that first drive, because at the time, you didn't know if love was dinner, or if it was like a cramp, you know, even the case where it's a cramp, and it's like, oh, he just needs a moment to collect himself kind of thing and stuff. And I remember thinking to myself, like, on that first third down that Willis enters the game on, I was like, I wish he just took off and ran.
00:11:33
Speaker
and been Like I appreciate that is making the effort to like be a better quarterback in an NFL set but Really that first third down. I was like damn it I wish he just hit the top of his drop and just took off because I think he converts that third and nine if he if he just guns it and go and he just puts the pedal down and runs for it because you know, Tennessee drops into a like kind of softer zone. And I thought that and he still gains like five yards, despite the fact that he like read it, waited, read it, waited and like tried to, you know, quote unquote, play quarterback and get the ball to receiver. And you saw it on the the later drive, the the but drive with Jacob second touch
00:12:17
Speaker
down where Willis he hits the top of his drop and then he runs and he gains 20 yards on on that one kind of broken play and you know that's the kind of athleticism that he brings to the table and you know loves a decent athlete for a quarterback but Willis is just on a different tier as a runner from him and it really does stress the opposing defenses in a way that love can't and you saw that on touchdown throw
Key Plays and Defensive Highlights
00:12:42
Speaker
to Kraft. I know it's only a four yard touchdown or whatever the hell it was but that play is all set up by the fact that
00:12:50
Speaker
You know if you're a defense reading that play you're like, oh, they're running a zone read and then after you know if he keeps the ball, they're going to run a QB arc it's called which is where you have the tight end basically as your lead blocker, as you run wide out of the towards the boundary.
00:13:06
Speaker
and because Jacksonville is like, oh, that's what you know this is Malik Willis. He's going to run the ball, all that kind of stuff. that They've seen him because he was in their division a few so you know the last couple of seasons. And then Tucker Craft is just all out there by ah by his lonesome. you know There was no one between him and Tallahassee at that point. So just really great stuff. And then my other fresh is we discussed it on the preview show. I'm really glad that Devontae Wyatt got to come back for this game.
00:13:35
Speaker
I thought he had a couple pressures in this game. But the best moment was after Edge Cooper creates the fumble opportunity, Wyatt just friendzoned somebody, friendzoned whatever lineman was trying to run for the free ball. And, you know, like, I can't remember who it was that tweeted it, but said I think it was Jeff Flute. He goes, that was a there's one popcorn shrimp at the but they line left and there's, and it's you or me kind of moment for Wyatt because he, you see him look at the ball and look at that lineman and he just hip checks him out of the way. And like, that's, that's how you create turnovers in this league. And, was just really good. He, Wyatt has been on the climb since about the midpoint of last season. He's converting plays, uh,
00:14:23
Speaker
getting opportunities, not whiffing on opportunities like he was to start last season. And I just think it's just such a deal for the Packers to line them away from a potential fumble recovery. And it set up Green Bay for what were absolute, I mean, any points are crucial points, but getting that touchdown to go up at the time 27 to 17 was absolutely crucial.
00:14:47
Speaker
And D'Vante Wyatt is the perfect reason why I'm not overly concerned about Lucas Van Ness. Because Lucas is about in the same frame of that D'Vante was in his second year. Now he's just got to put it all together in the third year. And Wyatt is like two years older, yeah. At the same points of the career, Wyatt's like two years older, so yeah.
00:15:13
Speaker
Exactly, but I left I left one fresh curd for you It's your boy and I am going to roll out the red carpet for you for Your man getting back in the the graces of stats that individual statistics this week Well, I'm going to give him a partial fresh because he did get the interception and You know that that's now ah ah in in the post game, a friend of show true North Packer fan had, did a perfect question. You know, who's going to have the most interceptions at the end of the season, Jordan Love or x Xavier McKinney. And so, you know, it's a legit question right now, but yeah, he, he really didn't have to do anything because
00:16:10
Speaker
Trevor Lawrence just like threw it right to him. But he was in the perfect position. he you know We've seen in the past where our DBs have been in the perfect position and it hits him right in the chest and they can't make a play on it. So you know I give him all the credit in the world on that. And I'm only giving him a partial fresh because we'll get into it in a little bit in the stale. There were some moments today.
00:16:39
Speaker
And it might not all be his fault, but there were some moments today. Yeah. so and honestly And we'll give edri Edge Cooper his... you know He had a couple of rookie moments out there, got little shook or lost on some runs and stuff like that. But he obviously had the big force fumble. He had, and I think, another play where he pressured into a sack.
00:17:02
Speaker
he has the break up on the pass down the seam to Christian Kirk where Kirk unfortunately injured himself on but I think you know what we said it's it's been a ramp up for Cooper they obviously wanted to get his athleticism on the field and we've seen him just add Not whole tools, but at least like, you know, if we're talking, you know, using the adding tools to your belt analogy. He's not adding whole tools at a time, but he's at least adding more like nuts and bolts to the little carrying pouch on the belt at times. and
00:17:38
Speaker
you know I still think he has you know the learning curve limitation, but I do really appreciate how Halfly is doing everything he can to maximize so the benefit of having Cooper's athleticism on the field. and every time he puts him you know Every time he uses him as a heat-seeking missile, it comes up to roses for the Packers. and that's you know I feel like predominantly that's the kind of player he's going to be this season, and there's nothing wrong with it. He's a rookie who had you know he who had a lot of raw edges to his game and needed a lot of refining. But the fact that they're able to find a way to make the most of his opportunities
00:18:22
Speaker
is just really good sign for things to come
Game Mistakes and Jordan Love's Future
00:18:25
Speaker
for him. So that's going to round out the fresh section for me. We're going to go into stale curds now or stale thoughts. Joe, lead us off stale. What ran stale for you today? love i know he got I know he got injured, and but here's my thought process is right now he even before the injury he like come a reinjure i don't know did they ever come out and say what i thought they said it was a groin injury more than it was yeah yeah no so they did not they
00:19:07
Speaker
And I don't know how much they would admit that there was a setback with the knee, but they pointed strongly that it was purely a groin injury. And honestly, that's what I thought it was when he first tweaked it on the opening drive of the game, because it's when he rolls out of the pocket and kind of you know jumps to make that one throw. And when he comes down on his his left leg, you can see it. It tightens up on him. and I didn't think it was the knee. I thought it was some soft tissue thing, and its ah ah and it turned out it was the groin. and So just to go back, to go on this point before we get back to you, I'm not sure where to put my worry meter on love, because I'm having a hard time parsing through Lafleur's comments after the game. where Because on one hand, you're always going to have high concern when your starting quarterback gets injured.
00:19:59
Speaker
what I also do think they were being cautious because LeFlore said like we took him out because he couldn't protect himself anymore and so it sort of borders on the like he could have kept playing but like at the same time there were obvious issues that were popping up so that's my little spiel on it we'll obviously see if Jordan practices this week And I am of the, if he's healthy and cleared, you play him this week. But I do wonder if he has a short leash in this Detroit game. Because one, you want to win this game. It's really important moving forward throughout the season. But two, the bye is the following week.
00:20:38
Speaker
And do you you know if if it grabs early, do you just say, that's it? We're pulling the plug. We're not letting you aggravate it. you know you know Elevate this from a grade one to a grade two kind of situation and stuff. So kind of curious to see what route the team goes with with Love's progression through this injury. But yeah, back to you, Joe.
00:21:01
Speaker
Well, just to kind of bounce off your thought process too, they wouldn't have kept him in pads if it was too serious. Yeah, and that's and that's where also I stay on the like, okay, like it couldn't have been that bad because he would have at least, at very least he wouldn't have had his helmet for as long as he did on the sideline. So, but so I know he says this was the whole part of the s STFU segment we had on the preview show where Oh, well, it's turnover, you know, interceptions aren't, you know, that bad. Yeah, they are because we just saw it in the game that it. And it's a console turnover. Yeah. And, you know, it was a throw that shouldn't have been made because the coverage was too tight.
00:21:55
Speaker
I know he's trying to play it. This is where you get a little bit of what they, what people love to term hero ball. And he didn't need to have hero ball in that moment. He just needed to be smarter with the ball. Now, like I said, Jordan's the future. Jordan's got the contract. Jordan's got the belief system of the coaches and the fans and everything else. I'm not trying to say. Hunt him.
00:22:25
Speaker
I'm just trying to say that he needs to clean up these mistakes. I know he was adamant that, you know, I'm not going to change my play style. Do you really want to be the guy like ah ah like James Williams, where you throw 30 touchdowns and 30 interceptions? I don't think that was the actual number, but it it seemed like it. No, he was 30. Yeah. OK, yeah. So are you really wanting to be 30 30?
00:22:53
Speaker
So to me as a fan, I wouldn't want that to me as a, well, not much of a player. I played a year in high school, but as a guy who played, I wouldn't want to be in that situation. So I just, he's got to be a little bit more precise, precise with the strokes. Now I'm not saying that he needs to go full on Rogers and don't throw it and just keep holding the ball, holding the ball. But. why I am saying you have to play a little bit in between the Favre and the Rodgers. You've got to be a little bit more protective of the ball. i you know Without watching that play and breaking it down, and I know you'll probably do a little bit of a breakdown on it at some point, I'm sure there was either somebody else open or he could have at least thrown it away. Because that throw was just... Yeah, my take on that play is
00:23:52
Speaker
go for it no go ahead i'm finished oh no so yeah my only thing with that throw is i looked back at it i don't think he was late and that's the only thing that i would have been like like because if you If you make out route throws in time, they're pretty safe. We've heard Roger say it all the time. And my big thing with that one is because of the injury, he can't step into it and he wasn't throwing a good ball today. He just couldn't throw a good spiral today.
00:24:24
Speaker
and This is where, so like, from, because Dobzee is open, I know that the DB undercuts it for the interception, but the reason he's able to do that is because it's not a spiral and love can't drive that ball to the outside.
00:24:40
Speaker
and so on the read side of like the read and like decision making he's open but also you've had two and a half drives at that point and that drive was like 10 10 plays and like 70 whatever yards because you started inside your own 10 yard line or whatever And at that point, you've got to kind of have a feel on where you're at physically during a game where it's like, okay, like I'm feeling good doing X, Y and Z, but of like this throw, that's not really happening for me today. And this is where I do do that.
00:25:15
Speaker
He's got to know that, like, shit, I can't drive the ball outside the numbers today. And especially that one to Dobbs where it wasn't even to the sideline. It was like he was Dobbs was the slot receiver. And so that throw really has to be exactly where it needs to be to avoid the outcome that it that it ended up being. And you saw it on a cut when he tried to throw that back shoulder fade to Watson at the end of the first half where If he can throw a tighter spiral, it's probably a completion to watch it. It might not be a touchdown, but he's at least got the first down and out like inside the five yard line. But because his ball was fluttering on him on all his throws to his left all day, it's like it's one of those where by that point, like I said, because you've had you know you you got the injury on the last play of the first drive, you had a three and out, and then you've had 10 plays to that point on that current drive, you've got to understand where you're feeling physically to like,
00:26:11
Speaker
me Like you said, maybe you you just eat the you know you eat you just dirt it on that one or whatever kind of thing, but that's where it's like... On a normal day, it's a fine decision because that throw is two dobs or it's so wide that no one catches it. But because the circumstances suggested otherwise, it becomes a bad decision because of it. And that's like the nuance. It's so hard to parse. But yeah, like you said, it's a hero ball moment.
Interceptions and LaFleur's Play-Calling
00:26:41
Speaker
And you've got to bring out of the game. and
00:26:46
Speaker
Because, and you know, a lot of people will say like, well, they picked off, they picked off what Lawrence two plays later and blah, blah, blah. But it's like, but if you, who's to say that you don't still pick Lawrence off if you score a field goal or a touchdown there. You know what I mean? Like. you can't play the like oh they got the ball back so why it doesn't matter that's that's the wrong that's the wrong to me that's the wrong conclusion to make in that you know i don't like to link those different outcomes together to say like it worked out in the end because you got the interception
00:27:19
Speaker
you had a scoring opportunity and you threw it or what you literally threw it away yeah happened to get lucky that jacksonville threw it away back to you but yeah well and what wasn't we talked about in the preview jacksonville is like bottom in the league when it comes to turnover and you gave them a free turnover you gave it yeah so it it just it can't happen it it really can't so
00:27:49
Speaker
yeah he's lucky he's not in my moldy section he's in just the steelle part for right now it's and it's it's because it was a you know like i said it's a he
00:28:02
Speaker
healthy or careful you've got to have even more kid gloves in that situation my still is just gonna be like i said it's lefleur
00:28:12
Speaker
okay and so the the one that i like in this to is but rogers money opener season opener in twenty eighteen where it's like okay it's great that you adjusted your game plan after rogers you know fucked up his knee and got hurt and you're like oh we're going and i remember collinsworth was kind of like sarcastically say is the quick passing game we expected coming into this one and it took love getting hurt for la floor to like really do some more like
00:28:43
Speaker
run associated looks out of his passing game i know that love was tweaked or banged up in this game but felt like there were too many moments again in this game where laf floorre was like just i don't know what he was trying to prove and
00:29:03
Speaker
but point this guy play and why are you doing this here and and then just again just like last week you're having success running inside
00:29:16
Speaker
four these outside toss runs just keep battering ramming yourself against this defects they can't handle your olline they can't handle jacobs don't give them the easy outwear they get to use their athleticism to chase you down going horizontally across run it at them force them to play physical with you and may the better man win so like i said i don't know and you know going into the divisional game la next week that's also where you kind of like because what happened in the two games last year
00:29:48
Speaker
the first game the floor get stuck because you know watson comes back jones comes back and they're like oh we want to establish the deep passing game and do all this stuff and be flashy and and detroit just shoved it back in green bay's face and stuff them in a locker for the whole first half of that game whereas the second you know the thanksgiving game it's like oh la floor like just took the the lion's defense out behind the woodshed and beat the shit out of them
00:30:18
Speaker
and i know that love is dinged up and or you're gonna start willis next week but even more so you've got to tighten the screws on this game plan coming into this game it's not a make or break game you can't say that about a game you know that's not down ah ah stretch and stuff but when you have a chance to take the division lead and really set the terms is because this division game is on your home field and love has you know he's only won the chicago game last year
Divisional Wins and Coaching Concerns
00:30:51
Speaker
you want to win your home division games it gets a better division opponents didn't do it against the minnesota again the season and gotta come out and have a strong offensive showing this week i took a lot of heat because i put this like really like throw my hands up in the air pessimistic thought on where this game was going heading into halftime but okay like you can try and sweep as many of these issues under the rug as you want but this is two weeks in a row where you quote unquote dominate the game except on the scoreboard
00:31:23
Speaker
part of that is on your play caller not maximizing opportunities in the key moments of the game it's justifiable against houston because that is a good team especially on defense this week againsts jacksonville against like you said a team that doesn't force turnovers isn't good at stopping the run isn't good at stopping the past do have some sacks but they're not even really good at press bring the quarterback it's like you let them dictate take tur of engagement too often in this game
00:31:55
Speaker
and it's that kind of stuff where it's like and you know people are like but ah love is hubble okay if that's the case that get him out and put willis in there sooner like you know like the the excuses that were being made as i certain things weren't working um'm sorry if this team is supposed to be a super bowl contender you can't be having these kind of mental lapses the penalties really reared their head in the first half of this game those kind of red flags that's why i was not having what this team was putting out there like i said
00:32:26
Speaker
there miss you know if the ref doesn't throw that flag on what was a clear dpi on dobbs to set up the jacobs oney yard touchdown run they're down nine ten at the half ahgainst a bad jacksonville team and they honestly they were lucky to be up thirteen ten at halftime so and think it was schneidman you know he tweeted he goes this is like the worst red zone defense in the league and you're one out of four against them in the first half and that's
00:32:56
Speaker
um'm sorry that's just inexcusable and gotta clean that up you you know and someone did say like well the only p that's playing better is detroit i'm like ahha and who do you play next week so you've got to start fucking tightening the screws if you want you know like and that's why even that response i was like that's your comeback like what are we doing here
00:33:20
Speaker
right and you know that kind of goes in to my next stale and that's the penal you know what are we doing where even zach tom was getting nailed with a penalty and he's usually one of your better ah ah you know offensive linemen when it comes to penalties in that so surprisingly i don't remember if there wasn't a ton of defensive penalties though were there
00:33:46
Speaker
did i lose mike again
00:33:49
Speaker
but anyway i know and it's mainly the
00:33:55
Speaker
you hear me okay yeah so
00:34:00
Speaker
and a green bay ends up with one penalty one penalty or three penalties sorry in the game whatever the first one i thought was bullshit i thought the penalty on um um on sean ryan was ah ah really weak call and like we call and especially when you get later in the game one of the most egregious ones they missed to me was on edge cooper's sack force fumble is the left tap will just full on bear hugs rason like it's it's the most obvious hold and they don't even call it they called it illegal shift on the jaggu wars that
00:34:32
Speaker
obviously got declined but i'm like you call ryan for ah ah hold that really shouldn't be called and then you basically don't call holding the rest of the game i was like and then like i so that it wasn't accepted because green bay the pass was incomplete on the third doubt after but yeah i thought that ryan penalty was terrible it was good that they really did tighten down on it after halftime because you know they had ah ah i think they have two more or like procedural penalties in the first half
00:35:02
Speaker
and that didn't have a accepted penalty after halftime but i'm with you that was ah ah that was setting off a red flag like the and i was like oh great we're back here again committing multiple penalties on the same the same drive again and just was one of those unsettling feelings like okay like you guys really aren't goingnna clean this shit up right so you know that that's got to be i don't know what the issue there is with that i
00:35:34
Speaker
i want to say and i said this last year and i hope the guy never hears it because he'd probably kill me
00:35:43
Speaker
but maybe stinovitchch needs to get back into the ah ah offensive line room because the discipline is doesn't seem to be there anymore and we were kind of seeing it a lot last year too so i don't know if stinovvich isn' and spending time with the offensive lineman like he should spending enough time with it but something's going on and and and buck is sure isn't doing too much with it but i've got one more stale and it's kind of a funny stale
00:36:17
Speaker
so we'll call it a funny sta whoever is running the mics for the they were on fox today because we caught this gym
00:36:31
Speaker
oh we everybody caught that gym the the friggin announcers caught it everybody caught it so my this stale is that they need to work on their hot bike did anybody ever figure out who said it because it didn't look like it was more i thought it sounded potentially like thisaco but i'm not sure also i don't know who jim is
00:36:56
Speaker
yeah like that was the other part i was like who is jim
00:37:02
Speaker
but but you you like cause i was like obviously it's because they didn't have the you know they were missing someone because you see tucker immediately turns around and is like this to the sideline like someone's not out here kind of thing and yeah it like you said it definitely wasn't the floor because you can see la floor like in as as that hot mic is going off you can see la floor and he's if he's saying anything you can tell because we've seen lef floor yell and he's definitely not yelling at that point
00:37:33
Speaker
so
00:37:35
Speaker
yeah yeah it was one of those where in the timeout i had to rewind my i had to rewind my youtube tv feed because i was like who did that and it it's gotta be that ah ah yeah basacio was standing next that's the thing is we don't have a ah ah jim or a james on the coaching staff but i honestly thought it had something to do with the broadcast team and it has sounded like must be commentators were thinking the same thing
00:38:05
Speaker
because they were trying to real quick change out of that like well you know what and that was that this guy teddy albert was great he's like neither of us are named jim so he kept the us like that was a great job by kty albert but but he did the whole you heard that i heard that but neither of this is named jim so i think we're okay it's not our fault but yeah that was one of those were like i said i had to rewind it because i was like
00:38:39
Speaker
did i really hear that or was that in my ed cause that's how i feel watching this team right now but yeah just if that were the floor that would have been on par with vince lombary's what the hell's going on out here oh yeah and like i said and like we both like the reason i don't think it was anyway is because no one's name is jim on the coaching staff and hold on let's just do and unless who were the reps was ref
00:39:09
Speaker
yeah i don't
00:39:12
Speaker
and that's the thing is that the play before didn't <unk> elicit that kind of cause i think it was an incomplete pass or whatever so i don't and no yeah there is no james on the packers's roster or you know james jim jimmy there there is not on the packers's roster
00:39:32
Speaker
yeah i don't i don't know who then there was none on the officiating crew there was land clark paul king tom stephen jerry hu thank you that was land be yeah yeah jabier walker dominique pinder and brad freeman so so yeah let's ja beer walker goes by gym i can't see any of thoses being a gym yeah unless we're not hearing it right
00:39:56
Speaker
buts see here i'll try to play it again can i but volume on this yeah let's bump up the volume on this round it keeps
00:40:11
Speaker
was young a you took back and oh i don't hear jim to it i did the first step but yeah would you
00:40:29
Speaker
i swear the first time i heard a je
00:40:36
Speaker
i can't tell what they're saying at first it's something are you aie or godam it yeah
00:40:44
Speaker
we could spend wait to like setruder film the shit
00:40:50
Speaker
but and free and then again old stuff and not in the no a brooder film is the film of jfk getting assassinated oh you know well we're going to have to break that down and see if we configure where's a john boy when we need him yeah that is who we need
00:41:13
Speaker
but yeah i even john boy i don't know if he can do it because he's good at lipsync that's the thing is he's lip he's really good at lip readingad so but who knows maybe he could and then my last still one is
00:41:29
Speaker
javo bullard had his rookie his welcome to the nfl moment today and you know like jonathan vimod like talked him down like he's the worst player in the nfl and stuff and to me it was just rookie getting taking advantage of in a situation and hey like better that it happens now than in the playoffs and there's a lot that he can learn from the you know the one big play that he gives up to brian thomas it's because he tried to cheat on a route you gotta stay square cat jump inside you you know you've got let the route play out a little bit more before you
Rookie Mistakes and Defensive Strategy Adjustments
00:42:01
Speaker
try and jump it to make an interception and missed a couple tackles i thought he bounced back after that drive pretty well made some solid tackles that helped and certain um plays later in the game but for me you know it's it's unfortunate these things are going to happen to good players we've seen jair have his moments we've seen you know all defenders are going to get beat at some point and the main thing for bullard is just seeing how he bounces back but again big test for him going into the detroit ya
00:42:32
Speaker
but that was an unfortunate that you know jacksonvilles what was that their i guess their first touchdown drive was kind of on him because you know he got beat like a drum a couple times so learning moment but i know he's going to come out better for it
00:42:50
Speaker
go to learn from it he's goingnna make his mistakes he's got to get his you know get islam so i'm not he's not the one i'm overly concerned about right now and and a more for stale for you or you just want to go into the spankky moldy sectionction let's just jump in the moldy because the last few that i have kind of could go into both
00:43:14
Speaker
yeah go for it let a rip so the defense as a whole i mean they just there was i don't know if it was play calling and you might know it a little bit more like i was saying in my post game you're my analyst more than i am but i don't know why they were it was like they went back to barrss defense with the offman coverage and and a lot of zone it looked like i mean they did get some man-toman
00:43:46
Speaker
and you know eric stokes played well before he got injured
00:43:51
Speaker
and you know gyer was shutting down his guy but other than that i mean they let friggin trevor lawrence go for three hundred and eight yards with two touchdowns and they only sacked him once for the game so i don't like i said i don't know what was going on i don't know if it's play calling i don't know if the players out of position this whole defense was just
00:44:22
Speaker
moldy mess today yeah so this is one of those i don't know what's the catalyst for what kind of thing
00:44:34
Speaker
so okay here's my thing on it up if you don't account for the fact that brian thomas and christian kirkt left this game game with injuries i understand playing a little looser in this secondary because of the evan williams injury which happened before or those two receivers go out but after kirk and thomas go out with injury there is no reason for you to not just muck it up with these backup wide receivers and basically say
00:45:06
Speaker
we're gonna physically beat the shit out of you and if you happen to beat us over the top so be it and i just did not like the strategy of let's just hang back let's keep it in front of us let's because i thought early the reason that they weren't getting home for saxy because jacksonville was just trying to get the ball out fast and not have to pass protect and that's why pressure wasn't getting hold and then later in the game pressure wasn't getting home because you saw it lawrence was just backing up backing up backing up and then someone would break wide open because the coverage was too loose
00:45:39
Speaker
and like i said i would understand it if only williams left the game because this gets into that whole thing <unk> olaoppo somewhere between not ready and not active for the game you know whether those go handin hand or it's a numbers game whatever and after williams gets hurt that means you're down to but kiie and bullard and a guy you don't want on the field on defense in zan anderson and that really hampers the stuff that
00:46:09
Speaker
has been working for the defense the last few weeks which is williams back deep with mckinney or you know the two of them playing you know disguise coverage games bullard playing the slot being the primary slot defender and then you have john on one side and then you're rotatingtos nixon and valentine depending on matchup
00:46:32
Speaker
because of the injury to williams you have to put bullard at safety nixon has to play inside and like you said i thought so and then valentine were okay on the perimeter after the fact but what tom you know thomas got hurt on his touchdown catch and then kirk got injured on the play that cooper breaks up down the scene once those two guys go out there is no reason that you should be afraid of any of the remaining wide receivers on this team and really that last touchdown you gave up you gave it up to the
00:47:04
Speaker
one guy who you could hurt you which is ingram and i know that they are quote unquote in triple coverage but really the only guy in position to make a play on that ball was nixon and he's just you know it's not his fault he's just too short for you know ingram's not the tallest tight end but he's still six foot three and can jump kind of the and and nixon's just not the guy you know nixon's like five eleven or whatever and that is a you know that is a height mismatch and so i agree with you halfley's done so good so far this season
00:47:35
Speaker
but i think he overcompensated the wrong way because of the williams injury situation and the domino effect that had on the rest of the secondary after that was disappointing and unfortunate to see but also like i said up to the point where thomas gets hurt and then krkt gets hurt i can't blame him too much for being cautious because it's like well ah ah don't want thirty nine playing defense so i've got to make concessions elsewhere but like i said once those other two guys get hurt
00:48:07
Speaker
you've gotta to change it up and be more aggressive out there you know what would have fixed that
00:48:14
Speaker
had they cut him and kept a certain other guy that they had on the team that could have at least put up a better fight than on defense yeah yeah so yeah but this goes into my next moldy point and i'll let you have yours but mine we're kind of mixed in get yeah no go for it go for it injuries touchdown that you're talking about with with ingram jaw moneys hurt
00:48:43
Speaker
evan williams goes out with an injury stokes goes out with an injury loves her jacobs got banged up he at least was able to come back in and play but he got banged up myers was banged up for a team that we thought that had this injury thing figured out
00:49:04
Speaker
now they're coming it's coming back to haunt them and i don't know did they mention what any of the injuries were the only one that i could find anything on is talking about love i didn't see anything about jair i didn't see anything about know obviously it's not good that evan williams got know he basically was was a hamstring yeah so i do know they said that on the broadcast
00:49:33
Speaker
yeah jair seems to still be a mystery um doesn't look like anyone talk to him after the game like schneidman's last report is like oh just notice watching the replay or i noticed real time and watching the replay ja was behind it but didn't jump defense didn't go back so we don't know if you would have played or not and yeah castle yeah it's it's
00:49:59
Speaker
yeah it's one of those where there's just a lot of there's just a lot of question marks coming out of this game that make this win like and like we said that's where you know it goes back to not taking advantage of your opportunities earlier in the game you score another touchdown or two on those first for those four first half red zone opportunities you're up twenty one nothing twenty four ten or whatever at the halftime you can pull some of these guys out later in the game
00:50:30
Speaker
let bro you know nothing igainsts robert rocell but that's robert rochelle valentine rehab you know re you know getting his feet back under him time at the end of the game in you know like you're like so four minutes to go in the game kind of situation but because you squandered opportunities early in the game because love got hurt earlier in the game you're behind the eight bull you you know you paul you gained the lead ah ah ten points but then you immediately give up a field goal
00:51:00
Speaker
go three and out on the next drive give up the tying touchdown and it's like shit like you're playing and you do hope that ja but ah ah best case scenario is jaer cramp at the end of it and that's why you didn't see more of a kind you know concern about it and all that kind of stuff but it's just like you said it just leaves you feeling really uneasy and and you know unhappy you know you're always happy with the wind but it just leaves you with this sick feeling in your stomach that it's like
Injuries and Special Teams Challenges
00:51:32
Speaker
did we fuck around then find out a little bit in this one and it's like they got no one to blame but themselves if that's the case i think i could see it being cramping for jayer just the way he started hopping yeah yeah yeah yeah that's and like i said that's what i'm hoping for i almost just count williams as out this week because like i said hamstring injury you're going into the buy just ten like you can't
00:52:02
Speaker
have him aggravate it kind of thing so we'll see but yeah it's just really unfortunate to be sitting here having these could a wo a shuder kinda thought and it's like but bob to head we we we went through the first part of the season so far without have any of these worthies other than jordan love and now it's all coming in at one time ye so my
00:52:33
Speaker
the big moldy one i have is or zi continues to be ah fucking problem and you know everyone was loududing chris brooks and in the end it turned out to be the right play for him to you know go down at the the one yard line or whatever it was or the four yard line allow you know run the clock down and stuff like that but in my mind i was like should have fucking score you should have fucking scored the touchdown because you i was like orac again
00:53:03
Speaker
was offt targetge on almost all of his long snaps in the field goal game and on the final long snap he snapped it like into in between wheelen's legs again you can see that the the the the direction of the broadcast view is the camera is looking from obviously behind the goal poll so into like ah packers kicking back you and you can see it wheel live fields the ball like you know the the hand is out in front of him or
00:53:33
Speaker
it's his right hand because mcmanni is a right- leging kick the hand is out in front you know it's out and then he has to come back and catch it and then put it back and like i said we lyn should be getting whatever the fuck orzac is getting paid because he is just bailing his sorry ass out every week and
00:53:51
Speaker
it's gonna be a problem at some like to me it is a problem but it's goingnna be it's goingnna create a disaster at some point when it's too little too late for the team to react to it and um'm just sick of seeing it every fucking game was three for three with phil goals and three for three for extra points today so i'm just saying and
00:54:12
Speaker
i think there was another reason behind his issues other than um like like we said you want to see him overcome it but if you're not certain like i said and i don't know anything of the insideouts of kicking but the one thing that all my friends who were good kickers in high school have told me is like that sequence that operation the timing of it the sequence of it mechanics of like how when the ball is supposed to be down as you're approaching it as the kicker
00:54:47
Speaker
if you can't trust that's all gonna be and i know people are like but wheelen's good at getting the ball out that's not the fucking point the point is is that let's say one second after the ball is snapped that ball should be down in the same spot every time and that's the thing is wheelin is getting it down but because he's having to adjust and contort to catch it and then put it back in front of him he might not be putting it on exactly the same spot on the ground every time because that's the thing is you have your
00:55:18
Speaker
so you have your if it's a rightfooted kicker your right hand is up to signal for the ball your left finger is down because that's where you're like you're making an indent in the turf to be like the ball is going down right here kind of think when i put it down but because wheelen has to turn years you know he's losing orientation of where he's putting the ball down and because the timing and the position is off you can't say for certain whose
00:55:48
Speaker
ultimately a four both admit like yes you want audits to kick through it better but what are the differences between his situation in san fran and his situation here what was in here and green bay i'm going to assume sanran has a much better long snapper
00:56:10
Speaker
and and i have to and this is another guy that would probably snap my neck if he heard me saying this stuff and he ever caught me you allll start to wonder about basachia's eyes because we get the comments that well he makes one hundred or two hundred perfect snaps in practice every week so you know i know we can trust him during the game hello yeah are you not did you not did you not see wheelen have to feel a fucking snap above his head against the rat like
00:56:43
Speaker
that's the whole thing like yes practice matters you know there' there's always a certain level of extrapolation that you can make you know correlation between how you practice versus how you perform but fuck it i don't give give a shit if the guy is perfect in practice if he's fucking it up every game
00:57:03
Speaker
thoughtlights are too big in the moment they're too big in the moment i want the guy who performs on game day and and isn't you what they were isn't that what they were saying about narvien norvison was doing a great job in practice but he couldn't do it in the game and that's why they cut ties with him hello you know anybody home i went so far as to say as like orzeni is so inconsistent he makes hunter bradley look consistent like and we all piled on how bad bradley was
00:57:35
Speaker
and yet they're basically the same player but or is it gets held high as some kind of solid vet and stuff and it's just like
00:57:46
Speaker
like you said there' is one consistent factor and i'm not blaming the the irishman on this one he's the one saving utter disaster from happening it's the other guy snapping the ball off that it's like where is this thing going the fact that we haven't had what happened to the chargers today in their game where you know j k scott lined up on the left and the snapper snapped it right kind of thing like the fact that that hasn't happened yet to the packers is honestly beyond me at this point
00:58:18
Speaker
it's but was win has been protecting it how many times have we seen the ball should be here and wheelin has to feel it up over his right shoulder yep you know it's a good it's good thing that wheelin is six foot four yeah no kidding but yeah there's not much more i can pile on with that because it just it's getting ridiculous and like i said to the point that i didn't want them it was to the point i didn't want them kicking a field goal at the end of the game i was just like
00:58:52
Speaker
why are you it's not mcmanus it's not wheelen it's the fucking english it's the initiating point of the play that i can't trust and and i always like going for field goals at the end yeah right and am i crazy am i making this up in my mind or something but maybe it was on the other field goal but i want to swear on that last field goal the three of them were having to sit there and talk about where ball placement needed to be i think so after
00:59:25
Speaker
i don't know if it was that one or when they tried to ice mcmanus and a different point kind of thing but yeah they're you're right there was one where it did look like the three of them were talking about it and i'm just like well if you've got to sit and and talk about it midgame before the kick on where the ball needs to be placed there's an issue
Coaching Visibility and Performance Responses
00:59:48
Speaker
no and i'm sorry i may be a ah idiot with a microphone sitting on a couch doing a podcast but i can see it why can't the coaches see it
01:00:01
Speaker
youd like to think that the guys who are getting paid millions of millions of dollars should be able to see it but that's enough for tonight at the end of the day the packers are six and two and have an opportunity to play for the division lead next week huge game we will have our game preview coming for you on thursday until then please check out our website ohannapacker dot org blog posts streams of the episode and our shop check out our merge continuing our two drives
01:00:33
Speaker
military awareness and cancer awareness please support those two two charity drives that we've got going right now and also joe is just continuing to put out good good new designs on merch lot of fun stuff on there so check it out when you have the chance follow us on our social media at ohanna underscore packers on twitter at ohhanna's or at ohanna packer's edition on instagram and then just ohhanna packer's edition on facebook
01:01:00
Speaker
follow the podcast on your favorite podcasting apps please give us a like and a subscribe and all of your comments positive or negative we want to hear it so that we're creating the content you're looking for packers moved to six and two they are second in the division at the moment and have their sight set on taking the lead against the lions next week sunday that's iowa joe i'm like go pack go and alo ha