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Carolyn Prosje
52 Plays1 day ago
This week on the Mothers of All Crime we are taking brief trip to Canada to talk about a listener requested case. Carolyn Prosje is accused of a horrendous crime related to the death of her sister. Not many details are out to the public at this time but that hasn't prevented your hosts from speculating! Anyone with information that may further assist in this investigation is asked to contact Detectives at 905-688-4111, option 3, extension 1009533.
Listener discretion is advised.
May contain explicit language and unfounded accusations.
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Transcript
Introduction to Infamous Crime Cases
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Mothers of All Crime. This is a podcast where we deep dive into mothers involved in infamous crimes and scandals. I'm Monica and this is Crystal.
00:00:56
Speaker
Welcome back to the Mothers of All Crime. I'm here today with my good friend, Crystal. Hello. Hi. Long time no talk.
Case Request: Kathy Pro-J
00:01:06
Speaker
I know. So we have a Canadian case for today. International.
00:01:13
Speaker
Yes. And this actually was a request from a viewer. She is a family member of the deceased and thought we might be interested in it. Our listeners might be interested.
00:01:27
Speaker
um and again, this is a more recent one. Yeah. which we don't always get. So we're very excited for a request.
00:01:38
Speaker
And our request today is going to be Kathy Pro-J.
Kathy Pro-J's Suspicious Death
00:01:44
Speaker
It is either Pro-J or Pro-G. We aren't entirely sure. So if we're pronouncing her name wrong, I do apologize.
00:01:52
Speaker
ah We did find a Facebook post from one of her high school friends in relation to um the investigation and they put in there, we pronounced it as pro J and pro G in school. So whichever one of those is right, I apologize in advance if we pick the wrong one. Okay.
00:02:18
Speaker
yes so it's two sisters right Kathy and Carolyn Pro J Pro Zay we'll go with Pro J Kathy and Carolyn are pretty easy yeah Pro J for sure works I think that works.
00:02:33
Speaker
So they ah they were sisters, ah grew up pretty standard from what we're able to see. um I will preface that this case doesn't have a ton of information that is public ah because the investigation is still active.
00:02:48
Speaker
um And it's up in Smithville, which is the Niagara Regional Police Service jurisdiction up in Canada.
Murder Confirmation and Public Release
00:02:58
Speaker
o And
00:03:01
Speaker
Kathy was found to be deceased. And originally they didn't release who it was.
00:03:12
Speaker
Right. So the yeah officers arrived at home, found her body on April 26th of 2024, And originally never published the name because they told the press that there was no investigative need to do so.
00:03:30
Speaker
ah However, through conversations with the family, they did give permission. And then that is when the police made the name of Kathy public. um And Kathy was 62 years old at the time of her death.
00:03:44
Speaker
And her death was determined to become a murder investigation.
00:03:51
Speaker
Yes, it was. um i think it was few days later after her body had been found that they started asking the public for information, still without releasing the name.
00:04:03
Speaker
But they were just at that point saying that this was not a random act of violence, which I think is what initially was thought of, that it was just a random murdering.
00:04:14
Speaker
But then ah within a few days, I think that they were looking closer to the victim and cloaked her to the people in her inner circle.
The Missing Laptop Mystery
00:04:23
Speaker
And at that point, the police were asking for her information and they finally did release the victim's name and released a lot of information about her computer and other things that were missing from the home.
00:04:36
Speaker
They were trying to get pawn shops and things like that to come forward if they happen to have these stolen items. Because, i mean, for a pawn shop, I would think that that...
00:04:48
Speaker
You wouldn't know necessarily that you were accepting stolen goods. If someone comes in with a computer, you're going to think it's theirs and maybe not even want to ask how they got got it. I'm sure there's all kinds of shady situations, but...
00:05:05
Speaker
I mean, and makes sense. ah Yeah. that's I'm sure they have like their way of asking dirt. So if they care, i should put that in there. If they care if it's hot or not, I'm sure there's certain questions that they ask.
00:05:19
Speaker
ah But they're also, i think if you are in that world, you know, which pawn shops are more likely to take something that might be hot versus the other ones. Yeah.
00:05:31
Speaker
Because if they are found with possession of stolen property, those shops get in trouble too. So i think they there's probably an unspoken list if you are local. And I think all of us know if like, if you have pawn shops in your town, which one's a little bit sketchier than the other.
00:05:51
Speaker
ah So, but yeah, they became very interested in this laptop pretty early on, ah which, was interesting to me because it's not necessarily...
00:06:05
Speaker
something that would have triggered to my guess this much, right? So they were very specific about this laptop. They had the exact Hewlett Packard EliteBook 840 G9 notebook silver.
00:06:21
Speaker
Like they had the serial number, they had photos, they had, they wanted this laptop very early on. They made a public release in August of 24 with like all of the specs for it.
00:06:35
Speaker
versus right hey do you know someone who had a laptop like there it'd be interesting on what triggered them to find figure out why that was so important
00:06:50
Speaker
yeah no definitely I think that they thought there would be crucial information on there and they were trying to suss it out any way that they could and it's tough if the actual evidence has been solder hidden yeah
00:07:10
Speaker
So obviously as this investigation is going, they are asking a lot of information from the
Joseph Villeneuve Charged
00:07:17
Speaker
public. They're trying to bring things in. and suspicion started to fall upon a 42-year-old Joseph Villeneuve.
00:07:28
Speaker
Also, I apologize. I think that's how you say it. Yeah. So interesting age difference there, too, don't you think? Yeah, because they did live together.
00:07:41
Speaker
So it's not like he's a you know a guy that she knows. It's a guy that she lived with. yeah sixty two And 62 and 42, big age gap. Listen to each his own.
00:07:52
Speaker
um However, that's significant. ah And when you're looking at relationships of age,
00:08:05
Speaker
difference. it's kind of It's kind of weird, right? So when you're 20 dating a 40-year-old, it doesn't seem like a big deal. But as you get older, that age gap starts to feel and appear larger, right?
00:08:20
Speaker
Because as you age, things come up and a 42-year-old is able to do a lot more than most mid people in their mid-60s. versus someone in their 40s and their 20s probably could get away with doing the same things if you're in shape and all that jazz um but in late october they officially charged him with kathy's death and he's also from smithville and he was charged with first degree murder
00:08:56
Speaker
He was. He was. um ah couldn't find a lot of background information about him either. If he had social media, it's not something that I could find. Yeah, i couldn't either. yeah um i will say they never, at least not that I could, i don't know if you found anything, they never formally...
00:09:15
Speaker
decide or publicly announced what their relationship was. We know that they lived together and they had some kind of relation in that sense, but there was never a public statement that I could find that was like, they were dating, they were in a sexual relationship, were they friends that were living together? Or was he just a roommate?
00:09:35
Speaker
um I wasn't able to find anything specific.
00:09:42
Speaker
Yeah, i I guess I... thought they were dating it makes sense right from contextual guesses yeah that's like my best guess um but it seems like they weren't living together alone and that they had another roommate with a hard to pronounce last name kathy yeah so that was my interpretation Yeah, it's a weird, weird dynamic.
Sister Carolyn as Possible Accomplice
00:10:17
Speaker
um But as they continue looking into this, Kathy's sister, Carolyn, who was 55, also started coming into the spotlight of this investigation.
00:10:31
Speaker
And it didn't seem to be public on why, all of a sudden they started looking at Carolyn. um I'm wondering if there was some kind of evidence that eventually came out or if he said something and that's where that came from to started bringing her sister in.
00:10:55
Speaker
um I don't think it's abnormal to look at family like we've talked about before when it's a husband and wife and the wife ends up dead. The first person they look at is the husband.
00:11:06
Speaker
Um, But not many cases if a sibling ends up dead, do they start looking at siblings without cause, at least that I've noticed. um So it was interesting that that shifted over to her sister.
00:11:23
Speaker
And her sister is a closer age to
00:11:30
Speaker
the other ah accomplice, I guess is a word I could use at this point.
00:11:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think that makes sense. I mean, it seems like Kathy has been accused of being an accomplice after the fact. And I feel like the only way that investigators would have known that is if Joseph had said something because he was arrested in October And then Carolyn was not arrested until January.
00:12:04
Speaker
So that's a couple of months for him him to sit awaiting trial without bail, in jail, talking to detectives. And then all of a sudden Carolyn is being charged.
00:12:19
Speaker
So it makes you think, did she just help him get away with it or attempt to help him get away with it? If so, did a terrible job.
00:12:30
Speaker
Right. But like, I mean, this woman was dead for a day and it was a homicide investigation. So it wasn't a good cover up for sure.
00:12:41
Speaker
um But so that's that also is a little confusing to me, like how you could be charged with accessory after the fact if there really was not a prolonged period of
00:12:55
Speaker
I mean, unless she was helping him evade the police for a few months. So it could be a number of things would be my guess. I'm wondering if... She she ah wasn't, my my guess, my theory, I suppose, is she wasn't present for the actual act, murder, homicide category of your choosing.
00:13:23
Speaker
um But I think after it was done, Joseph probably called her. She became aware of it. And A, did nothing.
00:13:35
Speaker
B, probably gave him some advice. Maybe he went over to her house. She took the murder weapon and disposed of it. There could be a number of things. She picked him up and drove away with him.
00:13:49
Speaker
um There could be a number of things that could have happened. Again, none of these details are public. um But what I did find is During that time, the interim, right?
00:14:05
Speaker
Joseph was being held. He had a bail hearing in October 2024. twenty twenty four i can't find if he actually was let out on bail, but he had the hearing.
00:14:16
Speaker
And then a couple months later is when she got arrested. So
Family Dynamics and Motives
00:14:22
Speaker
right I wonder if there is some kind of... conversation maybe her sister is more involved than just after the fact and they hadn't been have not charged all of the charges they are planning to charge yet um Because, again, we don't have active court information yet.
00:14:48
Speaker
ah This happened couple months ago. And as much as I wish the court system moved swiftly, that is not the case, even in Canada. So a lot of what we're doing is speculation here. Yeah.
00:15:04
Speaker
I mean, we love to speculate on here, but I do think that it says a lot that Carolyn has not been charged with, like, I don't know, evading. Like, she hasn't been charged with...
00:15:18
Speaker
misleading the police providing lies like she's not it's not that it's accessory after the fact which makes me feel like she was quite involved and that maybe there's even things on this computer if it has been located implicating carolyn and maybe this was a plan the whole time and then you're right she may be charged with additional things yeah because I think either way, they're going to do a lot of jail time.
00:15:46
Speaker
Oh, yeah, 100%. um I don't know the Canadian legal system very well, ah but i referring to the United States, if they aren't fully prepared to try a certain charge. They're not going to put it out there yet because that things like in the United States, double jeopardy exists.
00:16:09
Speaker
And you would so much rather, if it's within limitations, do it later than before. Right. um Because. Sure. I mean, they don't want to mess it up on the front end. Right. And then next thing you know, is she's walking away scot-free and she was the one who did it.
00:16:30
Speaker
um
00:16:32
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, I think it's a little odd that these three adults were living together in the first place. It's a little odd. um Their relationships to each other are unclear to me. Their age differences are strange.
00:16:46
Speaker
There's a lot of unknowns. I'm hoping there's going to be kind of a public trial, at least of Joseph, um just so we can get more information. Well, I think having two older siblings, if you guys are close and single, i don't think that's super weird living together.
00:17:06
Speaker
ah Particularly if... you Oh, yeah. I don't think it's weird for the sisters. Yeah. It's weird for Joseph. Yeah. That's the addition, which makes me believe there's some kind of relationship with one of them, if not both of them. Right.
00:17:24
Speaker
right Because, unfortunately, we have seen on numerous occasions where... men are very sneaky if they want to be and some of them are quite impressive on their ability to convince people they're the crazy ones so like for example if he was having a relationship with both of them but was able to somehow keep them believing that it's in their head like I wasn't flirting with her don't be ridiculous that's your sister like you're acting crazy
00:17:59
Speaker
And telling that to both of them and getting them both to believe it, it wouldn't surprise me because it, again, it's impressive what some people are capable of. But yeah if you're, i don't know. i also, i I don't have any siblings. So it's hard for me to like, yeah not imagine myself like walking over to my sister and being like, so are you sleeping with him? Yes or no? Like, just tell me.
00:18:26
Speaker
And just believing this man. Like, I don't know. That... I don't know. I mean, it it could be that just Kathy and Joseph were involved with each other and that perhaps there was a financial motivation, which
Speculations on Motives
00:18:40
Speaker
I do have siblings. I can't imagine a point of me killing them for money. Right. But if you are...
00:18:48
Speaker
maybe the beneficiary of her life insurance or a beneficiary of her retirement or something like that. If she was to have a unfortunate accident and pass away. I mean, Carolyn had just retired.
00:19:00
Speaker
I found her obituary and a lot of people are talking about how it's very unfair that she had just so recently retired and was not able to do all of her plans and enjoy her life after working so hard for so long.
00:19:12
Speaker
Makes me think that there was probably some money and maybe... Joseph and Kathy felt entitled to that money and thought that they could get their hands on it if they eliminated Carolyn, which, of course, is just a theory. But I mean, money and sex are big motivators in cases of murder.
00:19:32
Speaker
Often. So those are the things that I think about. Like, is there some sort of weird relationship dynamic? Is there a financial motivation? Has there been a long term, know, family issues, unrest, jealousy, tension in the home?
00:19:49
Speaker
we don't we're not going to know at this point, but I'll sure speculate all day long. Yeah, well, here's some of my reasonings for speculating on the relationship, domestic violence, DV situations.
Domestic Violence Context
00:20:03
Speaker
ah On Facebook, the Women and Children's Shelter of Breyer, again, i apologize. um They actually made a post in January for Kathy.
00:20:20
Speaker
um and they hashtagged it, end violence against women, and um that is a women and children shelter for emergencies and support services for abused women and children.
00:20:40
Speaker
Hmm. And it's interesting that the majority of your posts are... supports, fundraisers, who they are, how they can help people, um how you can contact them, their staff, very positive things, events, resources, and then this post.
00:21:08
Speaker
This post of It feels sad. It's very simple. It's has two shares. Sad.
00:21:20
Speaker
But, um, I can't totally make out what some of the hashtags are, but the major one is hashtag we count femicide because I'm not totally sure what that means.
00:21:35
Speaker
um o But I guess no matter how you split this, though, it's domestic violence. Yeah. And I'm wondering if Kathy had a connection with this shelter.
00:21:51
Speaker
And it could maybe be staff. I don't know. But you would think there would be more of a tribute if it was a staff member than someone that... Maybe sought shelter there.
00:22:04
Speaker
um So that was one connection that I thought was interesting that nothing had really been talked about on any of the other articles I saw. And it was a very quiet post. There wasn't a bunch on it.
00:22:16
Speaker
No pictures, nothing, just her name, the hashtag. her age, where she's from. it is It is interesting because femicide is it's kind of like a hate crime where you're killing a woman or a girl just because they are a woman or a girl. like That's that like the general definition of femicide. but And it is usually something that's done by intimate partners or fathers.
00:22:44
Speaker
like Those are the most common perpetrators of femicide. So I think, I mean, it kind of implies that perhaps Joseph was an intimate partner. But I think even if he wasn't and he was just basically a family member that she had a close relationship with, it's still...
00:23:02
Speaker
It may or may not meet the definition of femicide. Right. But, I mean, it's nice to shout her out, and i do feel terrible that this somehow isn't a bigger deal. I feel like sometimes when...
00:23:17
Speaker
murders and crimes are so tightly within a family and the people involved are arrested within a quick period of time, there really isn't a ton of media attention because this is kind of like an inner circle problem. Sometimes things come out in court.
00:23:35
Speaker
You know, if people were making really public appeals, it would have maybe been different, but it was mostly just the police asking for information. And kind of makes sense because you would have, you would think that, that Carolyn's sister would be someone who would be out there looking for information, trying to solve this, trying to get all the resources, but she's been arrested in connection with it, so I could see why she probably wasn't doing that.
00:24:00
Speaker
Right, exactly. And it's it's hard when you don't have other, like a large social group too. And when you're older, you're probably of losing your parents and things like that, which is really sad. But those are also people that typically advocate for investigations and publicity. Right.
Ongoing Investigation and Anonymous Tips
00:24:22
Speaker
I will say they're Niagara is still accepting tips. You can call in anonymously. um They're still gathering information. It appears as of January.
00:24:34
Speaker
um And I'm sure if there is vital information that anybody who may be listening has, they would be more than happy to take it um and add it to what they have already compiled.
00:24:45
Speaker
Yeah. I absolutely will keep an eye on the case. If anything public comes out about the court case.
00:24:57
Speaker
um As of January 25, we only have that the investigation is being continued. and homicide detectives are working diligently on the case um but again right now it's carolyn and oh jeff jeff joe joseph um excuse me yeah joseph i was like i have a real evil guy name um ah And we'll put information for contacting Niagara police in the description for this episode. So if you happen you have information about any of these characters that are involved or about the situation, about the computer, if you have knowledge, if you've been in Niagara,
00:25:40
Speaker
You know, it is okay to reach out even with a hunch, a suspicion, something that you think maybe isn't that important. you You can still reach out because they are looking actively for information for the trials.
00:25:53
Speaker
Absolutely. So that will be in the description of the episode. Yeah, 100%. So unfortunately, this one, i agree with you. It's really sad that there's not more out there for them because nobody deserves to have their life cut short.
00:26:13
Speaker
And the reality is like in a lot of situations, once you retire is really when you start to get to live your life, right? And You're starting to be able to have the time and the ability to do what you want to do rather than the grind.
00:26:27
Speaker
And 65 is not old. 65, you are still out doing stuff like traveling, restaurants, friends. It's not like she was 90. Not that it makes it okay. But like she still had no lot of life left and the time to finally do it.
Call for Justice
00:26:52
Speaker
it is It is depressing to think about saving your whole life and you know allocating money for retirement and being a productive member of society and then just having something within your own family like this just completely tragically cut that short.
00:27:11
Speaker
it is it is devastating to think about. And I feel like in some cases of femicide, for example, when someone doesn't have children, doesn't have maybe like the white picket fence family they're just not they don't garner as much media attention and that me is sad yeah absolutely I hope that Carolyn is at least able to get justice yep so ah Carolyn is being held
00:27:46
Speaker
You're right. ah Kathy is able to get justice. That's okay. Carolyn is able to get a lot of time. Very similar names. Yeah. So um both the cases are going to be tried at the Robert S.K. Welch courthouse in the city of St. Catharines, which is unfortunate because St. Catharines is beautiful. Yeah.
00:28:10
Speaker
ah But i will keep an eye on that case as it starts becoming a little bit more public. As of right now, again, we don't have any public information about the case.
00:28:21
Speaker
ah Carolyn's bail hearing was set for the end of January, which means i am assuming that they're still processing and getting everything in order. um But again, yeah if you have anything, i again, we will list both the detectives Phone number, the anonymous tip line for Crime Stoppers of Niagara in the description.
00:28:43
Speaker
Yes. So I'm looking forward to updates. And I think that's all we have for today. So until next week, we pick up with our next mother. Until next week.
00:28:55
Speaker
Bye.