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Twin Flames Universe Update
119 Plays20 days ago
This week on the Mothers of All Crime we are catching up with the leaders of Twin Flames Universe. They have recently granted an interview and want us all to know they are DEFINITELY not a cult. Join us for a chit chat about this very disturbing couple.
Listener discretion is advised.
May contain explicit language and unfounded accusations.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Mothers of All Crime'
00:00:20
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Mothers of All Crime. This is a podcast where we deep dive into mothers involved in infamous crimes and scandals. I'm Monica and this is Crystal.
Rise and Controversy of Twin Flames Universe
00:00:50
Speaker
Welcome back to the Mothers of All Crime. we're catching up today talking about Twin Flames Universe. Yes. So we have talked about them before, Jeff and Celia, and I believe it was episode 12.
00:01:05
Speaker
twelve So if you want to go check out the background information for Twin Flames, definitely go listen to that. It's going to give a lot context on what we talk about now.
00:01:17
Speaker
But when the Twin Flames universe kind of took off, they started in 2017 and really to gain followers and trying to build a business on love, basically.
00:01:33
Speaker
became an international sensation and kind of turned into a religion. And Jeff started proposing the idea that he was Christ and he was directing people to change their genders because there's only two genders.
Gender Change Controversies in Twin Flames
00:01:55
Speaker
There's the divine masculine and divine feminine and homosexuality wasn't a thing.
00:02:02
Speaker
So he started this endeavor and once the forced quote unquote of gender changing, that's really when they kind of blew up on them and the internet went after them.
00:02:19
Speaker
Because that's a really big deal. And some people obviously fled while others started dressing differently, taking hormones, some even going as far as having surgeries follow the, quote, new identity that Jeff and Solis were giving them, which is very important.
00:02:43
Speaker
Yeah. You're just like a feminine or a masculine, right? It's not about your gender. Okay. And so that's the quick little synopsis.
CTV News Interview with Jeff and Shalia
00:02:54
Speaker
And they never did any public interviews until recently.
00:03:02
Speaker
So o in March of 2025, they actually reached out to CTV News. ah Avery Haynes was the interviewer. She's in investigative journalism.
00:03:14
Speaker
And they did an interview for the first time ever. in And yeah I give the journalist a lot of credit. I think she did a really great job where she incorporated not only their interview, but also brought in a lot of people who, as Jeff calls them, his hate squad.
00:03:38
Speaker
Yeah. and and with it The ego of this man is untouchable. Unparalleled. Incredible.
00:03:50
Speaker
and So they brought in these people who really were just defectors. They were people who had experiences with twin flames from the very beginning to recently um at all levels, from coaches to executives to just Joe Schmoe, who happened to be in the group.
Online Documentation of Jeff's Teachings
00:04:09
Speaker
And Jeff, throughout, everything's online, right? So it's not like they're having in-person meetings. So all this is documented. Everything he says, everything he preaches, everything he does, you can find online, either on their website, on YouTube, Facebook, whatever
Jeff's Rebuttal of Cult Label
00:04:30
Speaker
it is.
00:04:31
Speaker
So it's really hard, you would think, for him to deny things. Yet in this interview, here we go. We're going to deny a lot. So it starts off, one of my favorite quotes that I ever heard Jeff say was talking about wealth management, right?
00:04:51
Speaker
And the reason that he's going to make a lot of money is, and I quote, a great deal of wealth is just appropriate for me. And that's why he's going to make money.
00:05:02
Speaker
And i agree with that personally. I think a great amount of wealth. but That's for me as well. Yeah. I love it. The confidence. And so he starts his church because he doesn't want to pay taxes. It's a way around paying the employees because they can be deemed as volunteers.
00:05:24
Speaker
And he also puts other people in high-powered positions, not him and his wife. So other people are listed as the CFO, the CEO, the COO.
00:05:37
Speaker
Because God forbid someone like the IRS goes investigating, heat they're not going to be the ones that come tumbling down. Someone else is going to be there to take the fall.
00:05:49
Speaker
But during their interview, one of the questions was, are you a cult? Right? And that was actually the subject line of his interview email. So he reached out to Avery and this subject line literally read, we're not a cult. Right?
00:06:10
Speaker
And she was like, all right, here we go.
Denial of Jesus Claims by Jeff
00:06:16
Speaker
Doth Dow protest too much. Yes. And his justification on that is you can't have a cult on the internet. In order to be a cult, you need to have a compound and live on a farm.
00:06:28
Speaker
o Yet one of their executives who left has documentation of him saying, I want to buy a farm and have everybody move here.
00:06:44
Speaker
He's a cult. He just doesn't have the farm yet. Yeah. that go Clearly, that's where he's lacking. um And then he goes off on how he's not Jesus. He's never claimed to be Jesus.
00:06:58
Speaker
Yet, in his defense, he never said Jesus. In all his videos, he just says Christ. Where I feel like we're splitting hairs at this point. Yeah.
00:07:10
Speaker
Well, no no, no, no, Crystal. He's talking about Tim Christ. Totally different. He's talking about, you know, the other widely renowned Christ that we're all familiar with. Or he's talking about Christmas or something. Obviously. Yeah. ah so I am Christmas.
00:07:26
Speaker
All of his videos. I am Christ. If you don't believe me, that's you your loss. his So we is over here i like, yeah, I'm banging Christ. Like comparing him to all the pictures as he grew his hair long and has a beard now. So he clearly looks like Christ.
00:07:43
Speaker
And the interview, you could just see her face being like, what? my God. Like you grew your hair out. Congratulations. It doesn't make you okay.
Financial Opacity of Twin Flames Church
00:07:56
Speaker
ok um And so she kept trying to bring up some of the financial aspects of this, where obviously if you are a church, there are certain tax benefits that you get, um and some of it is very public on your returns.
00:08:17
Speaker
So the divines did not comply with providing any
00:08:25
Speaker
openness to the financials of the businesses or the church and neither did their cfo um however online they did find that they're the church alone not any of the associated businesses the church alone had over five hundred thousand dollars of expenses mostly to youtube services and defamation lawsuits and public relations yeah For a church that is 100% online, just sounds so ridiculous.
00:08:59
Speaker
Right? when asked it... of expense
00:09:07
Speaker
it just sounds so ridiculous right and when about it Because she presented the idea of like, hey, like you have all these expenses to contractors and PR and blah, blah, blah.
00:09:22
Speaker
He instantly was like, we're not here to talk about that. She's like, we kind of are. Like... He kept trying to dodge questions and pretty much, again, talk about what he wants to talk about.
00:09:35
Speaker
um The journalists did reach out to the IRS. They confirmed they have gathered info on the Twin Times universe, but federal regulations, they could not confirm or deny any kind of open investigation.
00:09:49
Speaker
Personally, that in between the lines says, yeah, we're working on it. It's just not official yet. Like, just my opinion.
Manipulative Tactics and Gender Stances
00:09:58
Speaker
but Yeah, I would agree with that.
00:10:00
Speaker
Yeah. so then they go into why they think they're under scrutiny. And according to Shalise, it's because they are victims of cancel culture.
00:10:16
Speaker
And because who other people haven't healed their issues, that's why they're lashing out and attacking them.
00:10:31
Speaker
And he followed up with that he does yell at his followers sometimes, but it's because he loves them. And they feel the love because you he wouldn't get so upset if he didn't care about them.
00:10:47
Speaker
And that's why he screams and yells and berates people. And some people might take that the wrong way.
00:10:55
Speaker
Right. Well, you could see how they'd get confused. Right. um Yeah. And then they start going off about how people love to hate people who love others and used examples of Jesus Christ and Martin Luther King.
00:11:13
Speaker
Those were their examples. you sure Jesus Christ? Or is this still Christmas? Christmas? He didn't say it was Jesus. Yes. Just Christ. and um and then she obviously had to bring up the gender conforming surgeries, the gender changing, that whole dynamic, right? Because it's a huge issue for this group.
00:11:42
Speaker
And you i almost, i i was eating dinner when I was watching this and I literally almost dropped my plate because his response was that the LGBTQ plus would agree that changing gender isn't a harmful thing.
00:12:03
Speaker
And that was his answer to her question about him directing to do it. And I almost lost it because that's the whole point, right?
00:12:16
Speaker
Where if you are actually transgender, yes, do what you want to do to make you feel like the best version of you.
00:12:28
Speaker
If you want to be in a different body, change your body to be the way you feel inside. 100%. But doing it because someone else tells you to or it's going to please somebody else is extremely harmful.
00:12:43
Speaker
And I would argue that community would be very against that because it takes away from the difficulties that that population has already.
00:12:55
Speaker
It makes it feel... not as significant, right? Because that community a hard time living before those surgeries or before changing their social presentation.
00:13:12
Speaker
And you just saying like, oh, it's not a big deal. You can just explore it and play with it and do it. That's really rude to me.
Cult Leaders' Documentation Habits
00:13:23
Speaker
I agree. I feel like it it's minimizing ah struggle that an actual trans person might be going through. and it's imposing struggles on people that are very real now, but it seems to be completely made up. It doesn't seem like this was a problem.
00:13:40
Speaker
It seems like they just didn't have a good ratio of sexes in the group. So they just had to make a bunch of men because it was only women joining their group and they wanted to have divine masculines.
00:13:57
Speaker
So would they were just doing it for a completely selfish, self-serving purpose and manipulating people into making sexes. big decisions, which I think can be taking the whole community backwards in a way because you're using these surgeries that are controversial already and you're using them for a crazy reason and you don't even really want it.
00:14:22
Speaker
so I just can't imagine that that's good for anyone except for possibly Jeff and Shalia. Right. And like you said, there was a drastic number of women, hardly we any men.
00:14:37
Speaker
And one of their tenants of Twin Flame Universe, both the love journey and the church, is that homosexuality is not a thing.
00:14:49
Speaker
So him bringing up that community already gives me the ick because you're bringing in a community that you have already testified that you don't believe is true. And then he starts crying in the middle of randomly just starts crying about how much he loves Jesus. Right.
00:15:16
Speaker
And he's so gross. Oh, I know. The reason that he left his church because he was raised Catholic is because of their stance on gay marriage. And that he thinks that if you're gay and you want to get married, you should do it.
00:15:33
Speaker
And it was painful for him to leave his church because he loved Jesus so much. Yet his church has the same rule, if not more extreme.
00:15:46
Speaker
They just are pro-sex changes, but they're not actually in favor of gay relationships, which is an interesting interesting... But you're willing to leave your church over gay relationships because they should be able to do it, but not in my church.
00:16:04
Speaker
but No, because his church has their own special rules for everything. Yeah, the contradictory is insane. um He then goes off about how he...
00:16:17
Speaker
feels that people feel loved and they encourage people to explore different things. And that's the power dynamic that they encourage.
00:16:29
Speaker
Because the interview is very much... you're You're ruling by fear, basically. And your power dynamic is very one-sided in this group. And both of them denied it.
00:16:43
Speaker
And then during the interview, they did a little like clip stitch of him saying... you don't please me here. you guys are horrible. Freedoms will be taken from you if you disobey me.
00:16:56
Speaker
Like things like this. While he's also sitting in this interview kind of saying, oh no, we are supportive and we want people just to explore their opinions and explore these feelings.
00:17:09
Speaker
Not that they have to do it.
00:17:13
Speaker
a And i again, i think he forgets that everything he says is online. you got to do is Google it. That's what I love about these cult leaders in general is they're big documenters and there's so much footage. There's so many recordings of you saying all of these unhinged things and now recordings of you denying saying those things.
00:17:39
Speaker
Yeah. And it clips very well together for sure. um So then he cries again, again, randomly about Jesus and how much he loves him.
00:17:52
Speaker
But there was also point that was kind of chilling and you could see the mask kind of come off for a minute because the interviewer kept pestering him.
Interview Tensions: Jeff's Flustered Responses
00:18:05
Speaker
Like she wasn't letting him get around these questions. He's very used to his words salads, but just then being able to like answer a different question or pivoting. And she wasn't allowing it. She very much was like, no, the question that I asked you was this.
00:18:20
Speaker
And he started. I love that. Oh, know. i i thought she did great.
00:18:26
Speaker
And so she poses the question again. And he literally went, hold on. I need you to give me a minute to collect myself. Because he started getting flustered. He sat there with his eyes closed.
00:18:42
Speaker
And it was so, like you could tell, she was just looking at like Julia's and like looking at him like, what's happening? my gosh. Yeah. and oh my gosh This was early on too.
00:18:56
Speaker
And then he comes back. His body language is different. His tone was different. hit like It was creepy. like He flipped the switch back on it being like, hold on, you can't break out.
00:19:11
Speaker
you're You're on a PR tour, basically. And you really saw that flip of sides that he has, right? That love-bomb-y, calm, collected. Yeah, so absolutely. This is the the journey. Yeah.
00:19:28
Speaker
Directly after him flustered and be like, no, I'm not like annoyed with her questions. So I thought that was kind of interesting when you start diving into it.
00:19:41
Speaker
And I think my opinions on Jalea Shalee's whatever her name is um kind of changed a little bit. I think Jalea?
00:19:53
Speaker
I do too, but I don't know. I think I've said it both ways. You know what? Made up name. Yes. I don't particularly care for. so your opinions of her have changed. I think so. i Big fan now.
00:20:07
Speaker
Oh, yeah. She's my favorite. ah That really tracks. think originally i was under the impression she was a little bit more just like go with the flow and she wasn't as much of a mastermind. And after this interview, i think she is completely jointly involved.
00:20:32
Speaker
I think he may be the louder person, face of it, but i ah she's smarter than I think people give her credit for. And there were a lot of times where she chimed in and documentation that came up from these, quote, hate squads.
00:20:50
Speaker
She's very involved and she's very smart. And I think she allows the idea of being the submissive wife to As a level of protection again, where if things come crumbling down, she's not fully aware.
Pivot from 'Golden Children' Concept
00:21:09
Speaker
I'm just the wife. I'm just the support. like i think I think she's a lot more integrated than she wants us to think she is.
00:21:22
Speaker
I think so, too. But I think she wants to have the plausible deniability. Yeah. And ah again, they brought up how they make their money.
00:21:33
Speaker
Never got a direct answer. um He got very flustered and kind of just ignored the question again. But what I think is interesting is when they start kind of towards the end of it, of this idea that it's all just exploration.
00:21:58
Speaker
Because in our last episode, we talked about abandoning their golden children, right? Right.
00:22:09
Speaker
And during this interview, they are now saying they have abandoned the idea of golden children. That it was just something that was silly that they were experimenting with. And they're just, they're done with it.
00:22:25
Speaker
that was like their whole thing uh-huh at the end so should the interviewer jumped on it which i i loved and she's like so is the twin flames universe just an experiment that something could fall away is the divine masculine and feminine just something that might not be forever and they were like yeah
00:22:49
Speaker
Like they openly, without directly saying it, we're just playing around and we're seeing what people are willing to do.
Followers' Reception and Manipulation
00:22:56
Speaker
And if it no longer suits us and people are no longer willing to do it, we'll just pivot and something else will happen.
00:23:05
Speaker
Wow. i I mean, to say it so blatantly is kind of wild. Yeah. feel like that's, it's true a lot, but it's just surprising to admit that.
00:23:16
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that's where it was because very quickly after – She asked if the twin flames universe was ever going to go away.
00:23:27
Speaker
And she, so we have very much was like, Hey, you know what? No, I think we're only going to grow. I think we're going to expand. We have all this amazing stuff. And that that's that connection, right? Of like, okay, well, if this thing stops working, we'll just convince people to do something else.
00:23:49
Speaker
Which I think every cult leader does. But that's confident. Like to just blatantly be like, eh.
00:23:59
Speaker
They really... so i think that there are some cult leaders who believe their own things. I do not believe that Jeff and Shalia believe any of the things that they're saying.
00:24:12
Speaker
They know that it's not true. Every single thing that they're saying. And that they're doing it strictly to manipulate the followers, strictly to make money, and that there is no higher power or anything like that that they're actually aligning themselves with.
Motives: Financial Gain vs. Belief
00:24:28
Speaker
And I don't think for Jeff it was ever real.
00:24:31
Speaker
Maybe for Shalia it was at some points, but she totally knows that none of this is real. Yeah, I think in 2017 when they started just the relationship advice stuff, I think they did believe it because they both were into that world, like third eye, healing, holistic, energies connect you, twin flame love.
00:24:57
Speaker
But I think the minute that they got like a quote following – And that's when they were like, we're going to monetize, we're going to build, we're going to, and they were like, okay, now what do we need? Let's pivot. How do we get more money? Like, I think it very quickly turned into, oh, you believe anything I tell you.
00:25:15
Speaker
And here we are. so i feel like for shalia that's definitely true i feel like jeff solely did it to make a business and he just really wasn't interested in working and i think he took a page out of l ron hubbard's book and was like i could make a scientology problemo Yep. The best way to make money is to start a religion.
00:25:39
Speaker
L. Ron and Hubbard. apparently Absolutely. And if you don't want to pay taxes, I mean, no better way to do it.
00:25:48
Speaker
And i think the last thing that they brought up during the interview, again, that you're not going to be surprised about is their daughter. Yeah.
Disturbing Plans for Their Daughter
00:25:58
Speaker
Oh, no. this She's two years old now.
00:26:01
Speaker
She's very cute. From the outside, they are just a standard family. um One of the followers is their nanny who lives with them. Because, of course.
00:26:13
Speaker
Sure. um Well, they're not going to take care of her themselves. Come on by Well, then you have the family dynamic where his job is to support his wife and her job is to support the child.
00:26:25
Speaker
And if Grace, their child, chooses to interact with him, then he will do so. Ick. Um... And then it brought up again the whole idea of that their daughter, through their logic and intuition, have they've decided she is going to be of God's lover.
00:26:53
Speaker
God alone will be the love of their daughter. and She's not going to have all these other influences. Right. um They claim they're still going to teach her about sex and things like that.
00:27:06
Speaker
But they know that their daughter's lover is only going to be God. And if you remember, because I remember, during our episode, it is cool. you grooming your If you are Christ and your daughter's lover is only gonna be God...
00:27:27
Speaker
Oh, disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. Gives me the heebie-jeebies. I feel like he is preparing everyone for his daughter joining his harem.
00:27:38
Speaker
And it's foul. But I feel like and I don't just feel like this. It seems to be that there's a huge correlation between cults sexual abuse of followers and cult leaders just doing whatever they want with their followers. And I it's just sickening to think of the possibilities.
Global Impact and Exploitation of Followers
00:28:01
Speaker
Yeah, and this is a worldwide organization. Like people have moved to different countries. People have changed their genders. People have spent tens, hundreds, thousands of dollars do this program they have volunteered hours there's the word slavery being tossed around because people are working for free for multiple years there was one woman who said that she only made 25 for the entire time that she worked for the company in a pretty high ranking position
00:28:37
Speaker
and you have the leaders living in a 7,000 square foot Michigan mansion. it it's interesting how things are starting to come to light.
Media Exposure and Future Speculation
00:28:54
Speaker
And I'll be curious as this now comes out, if more people will defect or if the followers will buckle down because we look at things like Keith Raniere, for example,
00:29:10
Speaker
When shit hit the fan, a lot of people left and then the true um true followers really buckled down and were like, nope, this just proves that you're after him. This just proves that we're right.
00:29:24
Speaker
So it'll be curious how Twin Flames kind of evolves now that the lights really put on them.
00:29:36
Speaker
Yeah, I think it was a bad move on their part and that they should be lurking in the shadows. But they're egomaniacs and they need attention. So they're not going to do that.
00:29:48
Speaker
Yeah. But I just anticipate some dark updates. They waited this long. Yeah, I'm waiting this long. Me too. Because at the beginning of the interview, she ah Avery asked them, she was like, okay, why now?
00:30:02
Speaker
And their together response was, and before was their time to share their story, like the the people coming out with their abuse complaints and things like that.
00:30:15
Speaker
And it wasn't their time to share because they didn't want to take away from that. Again, presenting that they're these great and gracious human beings. So now, now that the dust has settled, it's our time.
00:30:29
Speaker
However, every interviewer has a PR consultant right there with them and a damage control like specialist. And if Ives was purely from a good place, why do you have consultants there?
Potential for More Media Appearances
00:30:49
Speaker
Ugh.
00:30:51
Speaker
yes but Yep. So that was our most recent interview with them. I'll be interested if they start doing more interviews as time goes. um But only time will tell.
00:31:06
Speaker
Yeah, I ah love this update and i both hope and don't hope that we see more of them. But I think that we will. Yeah, I agree.
00:31:18
Speaker
Well, until next time, we will talk soon and we'll see if anything comes of it. All right. Catch you back next week. Bye. Bye.