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Ep 143 - UFO Disclosure Update - Lue Elizondo new book Imminent, David Grusch, UAP, Crash Retrieval, NHI, Congress Hearings
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Ep 143 - UFO Disclosure update - Lue Elizondo new book Imminent, David Grusch, UAP, Crash Retrieval, NHI, Congress Hearing
Dave Smethurst returns to the podcast to give an overview of the past 12 months of what has been happening the UFO and UAP world. From the bombshell David Grusch whistle blowing and leaks, to the release of former AATIP director Lue Elizondo's book "imminent". Where are we at with disclosure and what is coming next?
We discuss it all in this information packed and fascinating episode.
Title music provided by Steve Yarwood and Abienfinity.
The support the podcast please visit our Patreon for exclusive benefits https://www.patreon.com/PursuitOfTheParanormalPodcast
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
almost because money i don't know what to was i on soft or what it was it wasn't an airplane it was not in your play it was so awful You are listening to Pursuit of the Paranormal podcast with your host, Ash Ellis.
00:00:28
Speaker
Welcome to Pursuit of the Panel podcast. I hope you've enjoyed last week's episode. If you've watched that one or listened to that one, we did actually capture some. paranormal activity whilst doing the interview with the girls once you investigate. So if you're not seeing it or listen to it, make sure you do because it's quite weird what happened and it's good that he was on camera. So that was really fun. I support interview anyway, so make sure you catch up on last week's episode after you listen to this one.
Updates on UAP and UFO
00:00:56
Speaker
So today I'm welcoming back to the podcast a guy that is going to give us a bit of an update on what's been happening
00:01:05
Speaker
in the UAP UFO world over the last 12 months. I've been out of it myself for about six, seven months, so I'm quite behind on what's been happening. So I'm looking forward to catching up and seeing what's happening. So welcome back to Pursuit the Paranormal, Dave Smevers. Hi, Arash, how are you doing? ah Very well. Oh, that's good. Well, I'm not so bad. I've been up to a couple of things. um so I'm sort of missing doing front show for people who don't know what do you for think of show.
00:01:35
Speaker
And Frank's been very busy at his work. And so and I often used to jump on a lot on that show and we used to go through a lot of nasty. So I am sort of missing there. So I'm grateful to come on tonight with you and have a chat. I mean, I know we're talking the other week at you know at the Thingy Manchester, but it's quite good to come on and just talk. I mean, I still talk to Frank regularly, but it's just good, you know, to to sort of do it. really Yeah. Yeah. So anyway. but Yeah. So it's great. I'm glad to be on.
00:02:03
Speaker
So just give us a quick overview of what we're going to be talking about, and then we'll jump into
David Grush's Congressional Testimony
00:02:07
Speaker
it. Yeah, sure. ah Basically, what I thought we'd do, I thought we'd go over the last year from, if people may remember, David Grush gave a bit of a testament, which I'm going to talk about briefly, and then where we've got to now in the UFO, what's happened. And I've sort of famed it in a bit like the first Star Wars trilogy.
00:02:31
Speaker
which is a new hope, the empire strikes back and then the return of the Jedi. So if that can people get the idea and pass of a story arc that that's that's pretty, that's where we go with it, really. So that's I mean, really, I think Anyway, yeah ah well we we'll get into it when we start because I'm going to sort of tell the main tale there. But it is quite interesting just to set the scene because we've got Lou Alexander, the man who kicked it all off in 2017, got those videos released. ah hes He's got a new sort of tell-all book that's being launched, but everybody's anticipating. And so when this is going on, I know the patrons might get a bit sooner, but it's a good time to look at the context of that and what's happened and then the events leading up to
00:03:24
Speaker
lose book coming out and what might happen and as always I'm just doing a bit of an analysis and people hopefully doing before now I'm not saying I'm right or I'm correct so I'm just giving my taking it but people might find it quite interesting just to view that in the last year so that sound okay? Sounds perfect looking forward to it. Okay then so chapter one not chapter four as in Star Wars and you hope So in July, 2023, we had Grush, he'd give his testimony before Congress.
00:04:01
Speaker
And he basically, I'm not going to, people probably know about that, but he basically said to the Congress, to a congressional hearing but about, but the US government had run, we're running a, retrieved a crash, crash UAPs, and we're running a reverse engineering legacy problem. We've been doing so for decades.
00:04:23
Speaker
There's been a lot of wrongdoing, miss misappropriation of funds. He also confirmed the reality of nonhuman intelligence, which is a new term now that we're using, because that covers a number of potentialities that the others may be, the phenomenon may
UAP Disclosure Act and Government Accountability
00:04:38
Speaker
be. So I like that term. Talks about the potential of having treaties. He didn't really get exactly, he didn't mention it, but there's a bit of an arms race between the superpowers to get the alien tech and even biologics, which is bodies.
00:04:51
Speaker
so Anyway, this really put the cap among the pigeons in terms of the US defence establishment. yeah and It was linked to the emergence of this UAP caucus on the Congressional Oversight Committee, but you might have heard of Tim Bursch and the Representative Luna and a couple of Democrats on there who've been pushing for more transparency on this UAP issue.
00:05:15
Speaker
So anyway, Grush gave his testimony, put the cat among the pigeons. Then on the back of that, Chuck Schumer is the leader of the Senate, a very senior senator. I think he's fourth in line to the presidency because he's the head of the Senate. They released the UAP disclosure act, which was a real groundbreaking piece of legislation. We talked about it, I remember.
00:05:37
Speaker
year in Greg, about a year ago, whatever, what it was looking like, what, two? Yeah, maybe two weeks before it come out, very within detail. But this was a big piece of legislation, talked about NIH, you know, terminology, very well defined. And it was clear the Senate had knew something and had been briefed by Russian, a few others and other people. So they'd heard evidence of it. Because in the background, all these these whistle balls have been given evidence, classified evidence to these senators and congresspeople.
00:06:08
Speaker
but the essential things were there was going to be an independent review board which would review UAP information, coming you know all the UAP records you all had to be handed over and it was an independent board who'd decide on classification. What's been happening normally is the intelligence community control it all and the other thing they were going to have a thing where they could sequester any craft that are owned or any crafted private aerospace of God that ah other people have got, that the government have farmed out to work on, so they've got plausible deniability. So they were the two big things, but it was a real massive piece of legislation. So the revelation, and then you had almost a tool that was going to deliver this sort of disclosure thing.
Seoul Conference Overview
00:06:51
Speaker
There was also, then, in the November of 2023, the Seoul Conference, a big event, loads of UFO heavy hitters, people from government, all the brightest stars of the UFO community, if you can say that, lots of government connections. And they did a big session. And the day one was about the history and what had happened. But day two was about what's going to happen next. And a very famous person who wasn't that well-known, but pretty famous, called Karl Nell, pretty famous in the defense industry, very well-connected.
00:07:20
Speaker
connected to all the different programs, aerospace development, highly decorated. He actually came forward and presented this idea of a disclosure rollout plan, how it should be done. Because essentially what this UAP Review Act is, it gives people a controlled way to get the information out to the public. um the and And so that was what he was arguing for. So but people don't get panics and it's an orderly disclosure.
00:07:51
Speaker
So after that, there was a bit of an air of quiet optimism really passing, and everybody was hoping for it to be passed. There was also a bit of an intelligence community inspector general appearance before the Congressional Oversight Committee talking about what they'd been doing and the stuck in connection with Grosjean, the investigation. And while the Congress people couldn't say anything about that, they seemed to reveal there was something to it. and so that maybe brought the need for hearings or the chance of hearings coming forward in the new year.
Backlash and Changes in UAP Disclosure Act
00:08:27
Speaker
And the other thing that was in the wind was that if this this act wasn't passed, then whistleblowers who'd been threatening to come forward might just come forward and spill the beans. So there was a bit of a gauntlet being thrown down to the cover-up people, basically saying, we would go for this calm disclosure, or we have these whistleblowers. So that was where we were. That was the new hope, as it were.
00:08:50
Speaker
um so um like that so i mean and You remember we talked a bit about this, Ash, on the roundtables and the lead up to this. It's all like when it kind of exploded with the grush stuff and then after this, it seemed to have just died off pretty much yeah that right from like kind of an outsider point of view.
00:09:09
Speaker
because everyone was talking about growth, everyone that is kind of in the mainstream, people are waiting for UFOs were talking about it and then after that nothing seemed to happen really. like well Well that's right and now that nicely moves us on to the next bit which is the Empire striking back as it were.
00:09:26
Speaker
So what happened, I think it was a big kick up the backside for all these people who were quite realised how they were going to deal with Rush. They were shocked that went through. So there's a real big media, mainstream media backlash. There's a lot of things come out against Rush, but the more thing was is that it was quiet. It all clamped down on UAP reporting. Because the ICE, the intelligence community, have got a lot of control over the media yeah outlets and all the rest of it. And it seemed to go quiet on what was being reported.
00:09:56
Speaker
And so that was a big thing we saw. But the key thing was that this UAP disclosure act was absolutely gutted and people weren't expecting that. They took out all the main things, the independent review committee, the eminent domain, the ability to gather information. And that was absolutely gutted. And that was the big thing. So as usual, what happens when these big legislation gets in the forces of non-disclosure and intelligence community, all the other people get in and put the fix in ah the all in the legislative stage and come behind the scenes and that's what happened there. The culprits were a guy called Mike Turner who runs the congressional or the House Intelligence Committee and he's got the power to not consider a bill going forward and that's what he did. And also the aerospace companies were also blamed for
00:10:49
Speaker
because they were blocking it because they thought if the government could control what they'd been working on they'd lose out on the profits and intellectual property.
Influence of Politics and Aerospace on UAP Legislation
00:10:57
Speaker
Actually we now know just recently, actually our role played a big part as well and they basically went behind the scenes and said to a lot of the congressional politicians, oh it's just been it's just repetition this, we don't need it, we're doing it already and shocker Patrick said that in the last three weeks So basically, yeah that's what happened. And there was a that was a big surprise. And there was a massive reaction to that. And there's quite a lot of outrage in the UFO community, but there's no doubt it was a big blow. yeah ah What you started to see, you might remember this, there was a lot of info started to get released, but maybe shouldn't have got out.
00:11:39
Speaker
One that Chris Sharpe did on this was called the Office of General Accountability. I think it's the Office of General Access, I think that's what it's called. It's like a Harry Potter title, but that was a CIA unit who were actually allegedly in charge of the retrieval of craft.
00:11:54
Speaker
and then passing them on for reverse engineering. And that was the key CIA unit that did it. They used military forces, their own forces across, and then it went straight into private industry very quickly. But that was very secret and very near to the heart of the beast, and that's very close to the legacy program. So that come out as a story in the Daily Mail and Chris Sharp Liberation Times and Matt Ford and The Good Trouble Show. That came out, and that was very damaging to the CIA. They certainly want to like that.
00:12:23
Speaker
Information Ben got leaked about Kirk Patrick putting the secret shady legacy program people on his management board arrow. In other words, selling him what to scupper and what not to do. So that went down very badly. You had Chuck Schumer and Mike Rounds, they stood up in the house, did what they call a colloquy, where they both did a set speech, very unusual. not Don't see him even denouncing the state secrecy on this and how they've been scuppered, highly unusual.
00:12:51
Speaker
James Lacatsi who run the RSAT program and did that skin workers at the Pentagon. He come out with another book about what they've been doing, saying this specifically the US government had an attack UAP crafting its possession. Now he's a senior intelligence person and I'm saying that had a lot of way. Grush expressed his disappointment. You might remember he went on Rogan and he was threatened that he was going to do this big opposite op ed.
00:13:17
Speaker
sort of editorial piece after Christmas to expose a few secrets and he got clearance for that from the DOPSA team, the Department of Publication and Security stuff, I can't remember else, that's all. Basically, it's the thing that the government uses to clear people who've got classification with, you know, to say things and so that his article had been cleared. So, and then you had James Fox and a couple of us saying they're going to do this big expose documentary. So there's a lot of people it was looking like people were going to kick off and you thought the whistle blows were going to come forward but then fully enough there seemed to be a bit of a rethink and like you say Ash it seemed to go quiet.
Critique of Arrow's Report and Impact on Disclosure
00:14:00
Speaker
so It's clear that the people who've been going for transparency I don't think were expecting this NDAA to be scuppered or the UAP p d ada u
00:14:11
Speaker
the European disclosure act, sorry about all these acronyms everybody heard, but he can easily fall into them. The NDA is the National Defence Authorization Act, which is a big legislation that uses the vehicle to pass all this stuff. Anyway, as I said, they didn't think it was going to be scuppered and they weren't expecting the scale of the fight back, but they were seeing, because they've been on the back foot a lot of the time that people are the forces of non-disclosure, but they seem to have put them on the front foot.
00:14:38
Speaker
So nothing seemed to happen in the new year. The gross op-ed didn't materialize. It hasn't materialized since and nothing else really did. And it seems there's been a bit of a rethink of the pro-disclosure faction sort of strategy and keeping what they're doing quiet so it's not scuppered. That's what it seemed to be. And I remember doing a couple of shows with Frank and we were saying, I think we did it on round table as well and we were doing one.
00:15:03
Speaker
Well, we were saying that we think it has had a big impact, Miss, and they're clearly rethinking the strategy. And that's become quite apparent. It seems that, like particularly on X and Twitter, it seems to be a lot more like anti-Lou than anti-Grush stuff now than there was all the back-up years. Is that kind of part of the whole like sort of quieting them down, do you reckon? Yeah. That started soon after the congressional hearings, actually.
00:15:34
Speaker
and it carried on into the new year, a few articles, Kirk Patrick was having a go, to go on which I'm going to go on about in a minute, not in too much detail, but yeah, there was a stuff attacking Alexander, but it was particularly attacking Grush and anybody who'd come forward with the whole idea and they were trying to, and you'll see in a minute when we get on to what happened next, in terms of this historical report, I all did,
00:15:58
Speaker
they basically we tried to discredit the whistleblower said there's nothing to see here and then it stepped up again again which we'll see and the attack started and you've seen attacks again starting on him more recently because his box coming out so yeah that's been a you're right that's been a common that's been a common pattern just to get back to our where we are in our timeline though in February of two this year.
Legislative Efforts for UAP Transparency
00:16:25
Speaker
Lou was sort of, and what seems to happen, they seem to have kept quiet and focusing more on the legislation and going down that route and not telling, not saying what they were doing, because the legislative route is the key congressional route to opening the secrets, basically opening up the secrets. you know That seems to be the key strategy. So Lou was on manoeuvres in and you know Washington, basically talking to Congress people, he'd done this sort of speech, showing videos and stuff.
00:16:53
Speaker
raising awareness and they were lobbying. We thought the new house speaker, Mike Johnson, it looked like they would maybe get UFO hearings, but that didn't materialize. There was still obviously a lot of pushback on that. But then we had the first talk about Lou's book coming out just in February around that, just before March. And also the James Fox documentary come out and that we knew that was going to be about the legacy programming and whistle blowers.
00:17:21
Speaker
And there was a few other things in the air, you know, maybe a make materialized later on, but they seem to have disappeared a little bit. So the move was both despondent, really, I'm just trying to sort of think about it and just simplify, you know, to not go on about everything. But it was also expectant as well, where everybody expects in a possible sort of whistle blowers, seers and revelations, people weren't sure what was going to happen. But then, like an evil sort of panto villain,
00:17:49
Speaker
Dr. Kirkpatrick sort of reemerged near the end of February of that year. And he started publicizing his history, because it basically, even though he'd left Arrow, because, oh yeah, I didn't think I mentioned that, did I say that, but Sean Kirkpatrick left Arrow in November 2023, so I thought I'd said that, maybe I didn't.
00:18:11
Speaker
And that was a key thing because it it got too hot for him, you know, things he said, his conduct about so after the hearings. So we he left our own. So Kirk Patrick, who who went working for the Department of and Energy as a private contractor, he saw a reemerge because his last piece of work for his left was to do this historical review, which they've been charged to do in 2022. You know, one of the first UAP legislation, basically the first NDAA legislation.
00:18:41
Speaker
And it was supposed to be a full review. Everything that had happened since the war, since Roswell, effectively, or just before, since 1945, it's a present day. And it was thought to be a massive undertaking anyway. he Well, getting to what he actually produced. But he was saying, well, ah that was his last, he said he was dying to do it. And so anyway, come out of the shadows, basically saying that it was all fantasy and, you know, there was nothing to it. I saw a bit more subtle, but essentially that's what he was saying. yeah So we knew at that point we were in for it. Now, just one thing to note, he was working then at the Department of Energy. He was unofficial as a private citizen, but he was talking like an official spokesperson for our own. But he wasn't. And that's it. But he wasn't. And that means, essentially, you'll see why this is important.
00:19:33
Speaker
But he could lie, because they were very careful not to lie before Alan, they played with the truth, played word games, um you know, a lot of obfuscation in this direction. But as we'll see, Kirk Patrick started to, I think, anyway, many other people thinking that Bill started to tell outright lies, and he couldn't have done that if he was part of Arrow, if you see what I mean, and not had his collar felt at all.
00:19:55
Speaker
so So in a way, I think he left Arrow part of that was so he could come out and say these things about Arrow being liable. but So he come out and then we had the Arrow sort of historical report, which people may remember that come out in March of this year, it seems a bit, I don't know, why I thought it didn't seem that long ago, but it was quite a long time ago. It's years flying. Yeah, it's mad, isn't it? Because I was trying to think, but when I thought I'd be talking about this today, what happened?
00:20:24
Speaker
and I had the same sort of impression but I suppose if the gutting of the UAPDA was a sort of kicking the balls really to the UAP movement this was like a sort of focused headbutt really to the still sort of reeling UAP transparency movement and it was really lightweight, it was inaccurate, it had cherry-picked facts, it was misleading and um Sort of downright, sort of, mendacious. Oh, that's a big one, isn't it? But, you know, really lying, essentially. and But nonetheless, and there's loads of things I could go for. Didn't talk about loads of cases.
00:21:02
Speaker
ah just basically went through the old government cover-ups and before, missed out all the famous cases of the decades, loads of stuff, loads of stuff missing, didn't mention the limits. There's a Pauline report, because it should have been a massive, thick toe mash. It should have been like, you know, five telephone, old telephone directories, and he shouldn't have been able to do it in that time, you know.
00:21:26
Speaker
but a but instead he produced this 42-page essay that he looked like he'd wrote the night before his bloody assignment was in and tried to pass pass it off. But anyway, but it did have a real chilling effect on the yeah um on the disclosure activity, nonetheless, and it would be lying to ourselves if we thought it didn't. Just to go through what it did, just quick look at people.
00:21:52
Speaker
It sort of repeated the Stephen Green Street to prominence of debunkers, really. And i Nick Westline, all this fuss really was because people have been stupid and misidentified this secret tech, or it was natural phenomenon. And Congress had been duped by a small band of UFO enthusiasts who were looking for grant money. That was essentially the line. And that's what Kirk Patrick effectively wrote, if you can believe that.
00:22:20
Speaker
And we've seen that even from May 22, the DOD had been quite effective in taking these debunker lines and weaving them into their narrative. Because Mick West also has something called the low information zone, which says, oh, if only we had all the information, we could solve it. Well, in fact, the opposite is true. The more info we tend to get in these big cases, the more the the phenomenon becomes harder to explain is the ends. But anyway, it sounds very plausible.
00:22:46
Speaker
And finally, what it said was the whistleblower was at all mistaken US s military tech for UAP tech, and they just got the wrong end of the stick. Now, all this was provably incorrect.
Congress and Whistleblower Evidence
00:22:59
Speaker
It was criticized by many in some detail. Chris Mellon did a brilliant takedown piece of it. I did a show with Frank on it, not that it was like Chris Mellon's, but we went through it all in some detail. People want to listen to that, we can me put the lick in the she but myself and Frank went through it.
00:23:16
Speaker
and it's just appalling and it was criticized but that didn't really, we're not really the audience, it was the aim that I don't think the UAP community, people who know about this stuff, it was aimed at the more general public and the mainstream and the damage was definitely done certainly with the mainstream media and it was a setback for the disclosure movement definitely and there's a lot of people who didn't really want to write about it anyway and felt a bit awkward writing about it They sort of gratefully grasped at this report and said, oh, nothing we to say here, same before it was all rubbish, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
00:23:54
Speaker
ah I think the other thing, as I was saying earlier, to do what he did, though, Patrick, and this is the thing with this historical report, they'd realized they couldn't just use clever word games. They act effectively had to lie in this report to say there was nothing to see here, which is what he did and what he did. And it crossed quite an important, rather rubicon, quite an important bridge. This outright line, which they hadn't done it before. Now, ironically, the Congress people,
00:24:24
Speaker
if Congress people and their staffers and other people, they'd seen this evidence, remember, in private and they knew it was real. The new grocery testimony was, you know, i was backed up by witnesses. The ICI, the Inspector General, the Intelligence Committee Inspector General had verified it, talked to the witnesses, verified the evidence. So they knew it was correct. And so really, this line that Kirk Patrick endorsed him sort of doubled their determination in it. So in a way, it strengthened their resolve to get to the truth because they were being new to were being lied to and it sort of, so it had the reverse effects on the people, but they probably didn't want to annoy, if that makes sense, which is interesting. Now, just as an interesting fact, when this report come out, the DOD bit, they've got the OU Office of the Undersecretary of Defense and Intelligence, I think it is.
00:25:19
Speaker
And that has that's basically where intelligence and defence come together in the defence section in the Pentagon. And basically the defence part that signed off on it, but Stella Dixon as the intelligence community person wouldn't sign off on that historical report, wouldn't verify it.
00:25:37
Speaker
And that's because she knew that the ice the intelligence community, the inspector general, actually had evidence that contradicted what was in that report. So they couldn't sign. They didn't have plausible deniability to sign up on it. So that's little little and that's really interested in that. But anyway, so we had this arrow version of the truth, and then the still classified version of the truth, which said the complete opposite. So there was this in the uneasy standoff that developed and went on sort of through April. And in May, I sound like a bloody webber man here now, don't I? And so now we come to the third piece of the story, which is a slightly longer one, which I've dubbed Return of the Jedi, Ash.
Push for UAP Transparency and Hearings
00:26:22
Speaker
So if you're still all right with this, pretty tedious. I like it, I like it. Anyway, so basically, the Return of the Jedi, as with the film, it got to a bit of a shaky start.
00:26:34
Speaker
You had the UAP caucus on the congressional oversight, trying to set up a subcommittee on UAP so they could look at it and maybe apply grush to do that. That was knocked back. They were looking to do hearings and set up a select committee, which has a lot of powers like the Godfather II film, and they got all these special powers and a special prosecutor. That was really knocked back and it wasn't materialized. So they couldn't get approval from the House Speaker, Mike Johnson.
00:27:03
Speaker
And also as the election grew nearer, the Biden administration, who some reckon the teacher Chief of Staff would give a bit of a nod to Schumer to go with this legislation because it was a way of containing it for the Biden administration, you know, looking at it slowly, slow disclosure. They didn't want to know it after that. They were interested when the balloon gate happened, but gradually they sort of backed away because they thought it was a distraction. And it seemed that more as the election was going on, people were that the window for action was closing, really. ah What was actually happening or behind the scenes was that the game was getting a lot rougher from the intelligence community and people sort of shut it down. They were playing whack-a-mole a lot with people and putting a lot of pressure on whistleblowers. And it become apparent the whistleblowers needed more protection before they could come forward and blow the whistle. It's one thing saying I'm going to tell all, but the penalties are so severe,
00:28:02
Speaker
and the legislation didn't quite protect them enough, but they needed to do something else. So that was having a dampening effect. And also, as I alluded to really, but this happened, this doubled down. The UAP transparency faction, Lou and all them and Grosjean, all these other people, the big network of people, they went very quiet so as not to tip their hand. I don't know about you, but I didn't hear anything really. People weren't talking. You didn't get much of a,
00:28:30
Speaker
I mean I know you probably weren't, you know, you probably weren't as paid as much attention as you said in the last couple of months, few months. But I know it went quite quiet and it wasn't really quite clear what was happening. It has seen, I mean I still sort of check out everything on Twitter and stuff and that's usually where you can see what's happening but it seems to have been like nothing really, like no really quiet. And it was noticeable because you've voted for Twitter for all people knocking. It's not a bad place to pick stuff up that's coming out. You hear stuff's going on and you might talk to people. and But there was not much coming on and that was deliberate. They decided
00:29:05
Speaker
There's no point in tipping off the hands of these people because every time they did, something happened, you know, and something was covered. But really what was happening, they were all refocusing on getting the legislation through. So we had, I suppose we had Saul and the other civilian agencies, Paradigm Institute with Danny Sheehan and a few others, they started focusing on getting the information out, working with Congress and working out what the legal problems were.
00:29:35
Speaker
and really starting to lobby. There's another group called the UAP, caucus of merger with a guy called Lester Nair and another fire teller called Roanoke Patel. They're really good and they were focusing on lobbying conquest. Because as I say, the way to do this is the only way to get this through is to have this legislation passed to get accountability for the executive branch who were keeping this secret in the form of the Defence and Intelligence community.
Challenges for Whistleblowers
00:30:00
Speaker
And in the background, you had this intelligence community inspector general, which I'm now just going to say, I see IG now for people that probably heard me say, oh no, investigation still continued. And it was like a sort of, I'm going to put it like an unspoken sort of sort of Damocles.
00:30:19
Speaker
in the background, sort of you know hanging over these architects of sort of secrecy. Again, a bit let's literally there, but it was. So that was in the background, even though and they were playing this game of whack-a-mole. So what we really had was a bit of a slow seven and a bit of a silly season. and that So we had a quiet period with no whistle blows coming forward because of this. And I saw of well sort of, I would call a UAP silly season, now for people who in America aren't used to that,
00:30:49
Speaker
In the UK when Parliament finishes and there's no news stories, the press often print a lot of silly stories or stories behind that series or stories about how much background and it's dubbed in Britain or it was the silly season. And we sort of got a bit of that in the UAP community. You were quite silly, but there was a lot of stories, things come out.
00:31:11
Speaker
There was one arrow who were trying the best to sort of still keep going after Kirk Patrick, who were just into the same game. There's a big, very public sighting from pilot in Elgin Air Force, Air Force Base, sightings of this big UFO, you know, overwater, big youthfo five solid UFO, UFOs, sonic clearly, even on a picture of it.
00:31:33
Speaker
It was showed to one Congress person. And I don't just come out and said it was an uncevered balloon and factually it was all wrong and balloon couldn't get to that. It was laughable that so that was really cool. Then you might remember remember this as all these mysterious drone encourages over laundry.
00:31:52
Speaker
Langley Air Force Base near there, near there, which is near to Washington, and see over a couple of other airfields. But mainly it's Langley one. And they they sort of tried to pass them off as drones, the military. But they were stopping planes flying in. They didn't know where they were from, or where they were coming from. And there was a big congressional hoover about what was going on. And from the description, they were undoubtedly UAPs, but were doing that. So there was that activity going on. But they just managed to keep quiet.
00:32:22
Speaker
ah I mean, there's a lot to that, but I won't go into all that now, but there's a lot of punishment and there was harassment of nuclear facilities, which has gone on for a long time, you know, of these, again, these drones.
00:32:35
Speaker
And drones now seem to be the new air balloon, really, if you see what I mean. The behaviour isn't that of a drone, for a number of reasons, which I won't go into now. And if you remember, there was that hearing with a nuclear person before Congress who was from the DOE charging nuclear bases, saying, oh, no, we don't know about that. And we don't know what's causing it. We'll look into it.
00:32:58
Speaker
and all the rest of it, so there still were going on there. There was also, you might remember a bit earlier, the UAP Parliament, the debate there on UAP, sorry, the European Parliament, not the UAP Parliament, interesting concept there. The European Parliament were a big debate on air safety in UAP, so that was an interesting development coming on.
00:33:18
Speaker
There was another interesting report called Kona Blue, which you may remember.
The Kona Blue Report's Impact
00:33:22
Speaker
Now this was a set, if you remember the RSAT program, which had decided where Bigelow had started, where Lou started working on. Essentially, this was a bid by this group of people after the RSAT program was defunded to do the next bit of the work and it was called Kona Blue. And it was about extend expanding the work, looking into you know the crash technology, getting hands on that and working on that and doing a few other things around the UAP topic based on the existing government work and secrets. And Kirk Patrick quite cleverly used this report that he knew hadn't passed to say that people were getting confused about that report and thought it was a real report, which was a complete lie. Anyway, they released this report.
00:34:08
Speaker
hoping to show, you know, to make Patrick's report look true. But actually, there's loads of details because he's so sloppy, they haven't checked. But actually, I confirmed a lot about what the u US the US government doing, and some of these legacy problems are are suggested that we didn't confirm it. Absolutely. But there's a lot of circumstantial evidence in there, but people at least so that was quite embarrassing as well. And Anyway, so that was cool. Then they wheeled out Sean Patrick again.
00:34:40
Speaker
uh you know to some training journalists to sort of reiterate his assertions in his report and he'd come out but he lied about being at skinwalker ranch uh you know listening to the thing they said oh no i was never there and then they produced this video i forget the guy who controls he put to it a minute the guy was in charge of skinwalker ranch he produced uh this picture of him listening to this this thing so he was that affected his credibility There's a strange whistleblower coming forward call in a Twitter space called Jason Sands who seemed said he'd been involved and his story is quite interesting whether he is or is not believable. He might be a fantasist who did have the clearances, but maybe didn't have. um I might be doing him a bit disservice, but the impression seems to be that he did have clearances, general security clearances, but he wasn't really involved because some of what he said he'd seen actually mirrors what somebody else had seen 10 years early. so
00:35:36
Speaker
whether he was a sort of high class, you know, a tail seller, I don't know. But anyway, I think for what I can remember of that one, quite a few people came out and said like, no, I didn't do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. And he started going into some other a strange sort of quite woo woo territory as well. So people actually thought he might be a plant, you know, to try and discredit things. But I don't think he's dying. Anyway, he wasn't acknowledged by crushing.
00:36:02
Speaker
Alexander and all that. so And then we also have more recently this stuff of the Nazca Mummies, which people were interested in. And that's, you know, saying there's maybe alien bodies that have been found and evidence of alien bodies now. It seems some of them now, from more analysis, have been sort of manufactured from very old materials, which are interested in themselves. But the big one,
00:36:28
Speaker
maybe has got, it seems to be something, and it's got a genetic thing, but maybe links it to a lost offshoot of humanity. so thiss So it's interesting, but the point is that story got a lot of prominence because there was nothing happening in the UAP field. And then finally, do we found out from an f Freedom of Information request, there'd been a Five Eyes meeting with all the different intelligence agencies, New Zealand, Canada, Australia, UK, and America, about UAPs, March, I think it was,
00:36:57
Speaker
might have been May, I think it was March in the Pentagon and that reinforced this main diary of these international intelligence saying she links and again linking on the crash retrieval stuff. That's an inference that wasn't in the meeting but so there's a lot going on but you got all these stories that maybe it was like a boil things were boiling but nothing was happening.
James Fox's Documentary and Whistleblower Insights
00:37:20
Speaker
They were sort of playing whack-a-mole these sort of forces of non-disclosure really Kirkpatrick out maybe launching some stories But you could tell they knew something was coming that they weren't going to like. And sure enough, it actually was. Because then we saw a bit of a change of gear. And we're getting near to the end of the start of here now. And basically, there was some legislation launched in the lower house of Congress, House of Representatives, trying to introduce the UAPDA Act.
00:37:55
Speaker
And there was a new stronger whistleblower protection act that would enable people to come forward with more safety. And they were scuppered in the end, earlier in about, I think at the end of the start of June, but it was a bit of a shock across the bowels. Then James Fox gave a date for his film coming out and and said it was about legacy problems and whistleblowers, which will be in the fall as the Americans say. So I think it'll be September, October.
00:38:23
Speaker
and that's supposed to be going to be brown booking but crucially Lou Alizondo announced his book release which everybody had been waiting for and it had been being cleared by that dobson process for ages on the 20th of august which would be when this show comes up. So that was massive and that really set the calm on the pigeons a bit. Karl Mel, this guy again, he went to this prominent investment conference, assault conference. And if you remember, we were on a round table a year before Tom McGarry Nolan appearing at that, generally he said he had no doubt they were real. NHGI was real. Well, this Karl Mel was a real heavy hitter, as I say, in the government and all the rest of it. He said to all these finances, there was no doubt
00:39:05
Speaker
The NIT were real. They'd been interacting with us for a long time and the US government trapped in their possession. And when the guy said, so are you saying out of a hundred, how sure are you? And they say, he's went, there is no doubt. That's what he said. So it was a big, strong thing. Now, shortly after that, that Matt Ford from control, set up the UAP disclosure fund. And there are people like Alexander, Mel and all, loads of specialists, political lobbyists.
00:39:36
Speaker
They aim specifically at campaigning to get this new UAP disclosure act passed. And sure enough, Chuck Schumer and Senator Rounds, who had introduced it a year before, have now reintroduced their ability to the Senate to get voted on. I've got a feeling it's near to passing now. And also some whistleblower legislation as well to give the whistleblowers the ability to come forward. So all the groups who were focused on legislation and lobbying earlier in the year have now re-emerged to kick off this lobbying thing and um for a successful vote, I suppose, and inclusion in the NBA. And this these sort of legislative moves aim to address the whistleblower issues.
00:40:23
Speaker
And it's sort of flown a gauntlet down to this Mike Turner and these people who are trying to block it behind him from the intelligence community in DOD. They said, they've flown a gauntlet, so we'll stop it if you dare, yeah? And that's what's happening. So this is the plan as I glean it now, and it's my reasoning, but I've heard it. This is what's on the cards now as we're coming up to date
Strategy for Legislative UAP Disclosures
00:40:48
Speaker
with the book. So you've got Lou's book,
00:40:53
Speaker
coming out and make some pretty shocking and credible revelations. And he's got a lot of credibility about NHI reality, what the government knows, the secret retrieval and reverse retrieval of your aircraft and reverse engineering. And it's called imminent meaning, but it's the address needs to be seen now. So that is the first thing that's supposed to happen. On the heels of this is going to be his documentaries released, not only James Fox's, but another one.
00:41:23
Speaker
about these programmes with whistleblowers speaking. And that's going to further out to the clamour on putting pressure on the DODIC secret keepers. This in turn, as the plan is, will lead to serious congressional questioning of the actions of these agencies and maybe even lead to some congressional hearings. Because we say, what's going on? Is this true? you know There'll be specific allegations with particular people named.
00:41:50
Speaker
ah And they might even see congressional hearings with some potential immunity for some people to give evidence. And then, apparently, a well-prominent, well-known governmental figure or somebody who's famous who's in the government rather than a celebrity, but is well-known. And he's highly respected but come forward and confirmed the government know about NHI. They've retrieved the tech.
00:42:16
Speaker
and it's been covered up on my lurch, moved towards transparency. And this is what something called the coup de gras. So you're going to have all these things ratcheting up. And this will be around sort of October, November, just when we're in the middle of the election. I will come back and talk about that in a minute, because I'm sure you've got a few comments on that. But essentially, I suppose what I'm saying, Ash, is that Lou's going to light the fuse and then set off these mini explosions that are going to go off.
00:42:44
Speaker
and And the idea is to leave these people, the forces, non-disclosure of cover-up so beleaguered that they're not able to block which new legislation. And to be honest with you, given they might be in the frame for what's gone on and the cover-up and people are annoyed, you might even be glad at the rest point, you know, this act, this long-term disclosure, this control disclosure might give them. Now, then again, they might not, because they haven't done it so far, of you know?
00:43:14
Speaker
I think, and this is more my speculation now, but following this, if the actors pass the inflows, the slowly start to be released as part of this disclosure project. And you might then start to see select committee hearings where they've got investigative powers. And even you might even see a truth of reconciliation hearings like in South Africa, where people are given the amnesty and return for coming forward with what they know. And All this, as I say, will be happening as the NDAA being passed the this disclosure act, as the presidential campaign is gathering pace and then when it finishes.
00:43:52
Speaker
And this act may be the last thing, but Joe Biden signs and signs as the president himself. I was going to say, because if I'm just right with my understanding of politics, obviously Biden's stepping down either way and at the end of his term. So no matter who wins in November, Biden will be kind of making his last kind of steps as the president.
00:44:18
Speaker
so
00:44:21
Speaker
Will it matter who wins the election or is this just transcending that because whether the legislation goes through he will be signing that in January? that follow a won What will happen is if it gets over what is a massive hurdle to get it passed make no mistake I'm telling you this the plan whether the plan happens we don't know but yeah if they sign it then it If they sign it, it will go to the president and Biden will sign it and it will go into law. Because the president effectively, the president who's you know lost or going to be replaced in this case, still retains the presidential power until the December. Then he's passed over to that in the first week of January. Or we have the third week, I can't remember the date, but anyway, he's passed over to the new president. But it will become law and he'll be able to you know pass it if it's voted on.
00:45:15
Speaker
But the issue is what happens next. And because the president, if this act goes through, you can have this review body, and the president's in charge of that, and he's advised by these independent people, he or she in this case. And so if the president backs it and wants to see some sort of disclosure, then it'll go well. If the administration doesn't want to know it, then he might not go so well. So the choice of president is important, but apparently, according to liberation times,
00:45:44
Speaker
There's been a bit of a pact between the Trump and the Biden camp.
Political Climate and Bipartisan Support for UAP Disclosure
00:45:49
Speaker
This was before what happened with Kamala and what's happened recently. But they would, whoever got it, they would support this legislation. So we thought there was a bit of a consensus around that. A bit like the bipartisan consensus. But that might not happen, Ash. We don't know what she thinks about Kamala Harris. She was on the Senate Intelligence Committee.
00:46:11
Speaker
and we don't know whether she's for it or against it. And Trump, if he gets in, he's been behaving so erratically recently. You don't know, and apparently he's scared of being bumped off. That's why he's not gone for it in the past. So you know so so ostensibly, they're going to back it, but it does depend on on if they do when it gets inspired. But if it does happen, as we think, there'll be a year where all this evidence keeps getting passed, and then in the October of 2025,
00:46:40
Speaker
it'll all start coming out decade on decade. A lot of stuff and so and that'll be over the next few years then. That's that's the theory anyway. Just to say though, and I just just to finish round this off, it's so all highly speculative this. ah But it was outlined by a very well respected civilian intelligence analyst called Matthew Pines. So I've not just made it up. I'm basically going off what he said a couple of weeks ago.
00:47:07
Speaker
on a podcast which a lot of people picked up on on Twitter and it's why he heard and he's very well informed about it's supposed to run and he spoke really well about it you know and it brings true because it echoes what Danny Sheehan said and things I've heard but you know what other people are saying so this seems to be the plan lose books to kick off and then these documentaries and then outrage possible senate interest and then daring these people to solve you know not sign
Speculation on UAP Disclosure Outcomes
00:47:39
Speaker
the bill. And if they don't sign the bill, maybe something else will happen. Maybe they'll go for a select committee, me something else. you know We don't know. So I suppose the question is just to round off, after the end of our Star Wars strategy, is it wishful thinking, I suppose. That's the question. Will the forces of non-disclosure find a way to find that? We have done before, although it seems pretty powerful, this.
00:48:04
Speaker
And we don't know, as I was just alluding to, what happens if the legislation is not passed? Could it kick off? Would it be, you know, crazy town sort of revelations or what's going to happen? ah It might be, though, ash and one that you've alluded to many times. It might be another situation where we expect a lot of nothing happens again. That could. That might happen. I'd be surprised if that's so. But that could well happen. I'd be feeling myself if I'd say that isn't a chance.
00:48:33
Speaker
I think they seem to be fighting a bit of a fight back with Kirk Patrick, sort of doing the rounds again, although he was made to look pretty foolish in the eyes of many by not knowing the details of the gimbal event, a couple of other events, you know, when he was questioned by Marek on Twitter, who knows a lot about former defence analyst. He didn't seem to know the details of these cases, he said we're just all balloons. So he looked very bad there, because it's quite obvious whatever evidence there was, he was just going act to poo-poo it, you know.
00:49:03
Speaker
But anyway, as Lou's book was being leaked, that seemed a bit strange to me when that happened. Apparently it was just an accident and I can see how it did happen. But I think it's pretty strange, because that gives the sort of debunkers a chance to have a go at it early. Because the name of the game seems to be, because you've got a lot of debunkers anyway i'm making these frenzied attacks on Lou. And if you think they are influenced even knowingly or unknowingly by these sort of forces of cover-up, then it gives them a chance to try and, because what they want to try and do is discredit Lou's book before it comes out in the eyes of a lot of people, so he doesn't like the fuse. That's what they're trying to do.
00:49:41
Speaker
So I think the one thing that is certain is though, a large number of people in Congress don't believe his arrow is historical report. And that was the last straw for all of them don't believe arrow. And I've seen they've got limited credibility. And so they're now pushing for disclosure behind the scenes and they sort of supporting that. Pro-disclosure faction, but spearheaded by Lou and that's where
Reflection on UAP Disclosure Efforts
00:50:09
Speaker
we are.
00:50:09
Speaker
So I can talk about the book in a bit, but have you got any sort of reflections on that? ah Yeah, ah quite a bit. So something that I'm not sure you mentioned and something that kind of came out of the initial Grush hearings was there's a lot of talk of skiffs and I give you all this information in the skiff.
00:50:29
Speaker
Did anything actually happen with... yeah stay with it Yeah, the skiffs are, I think, secret cup and compartmentalised intelligence facility. And what it is, basically, is there a sort of electronically controlled room where you know signals can come out, you don't set your phones in, so you can't be eavesdropped on. And so when they give classified hearings and testimony, they have these skiffs in Congress and in intelligence facilities they go into. And there's a load, apparently, in the Congress itself.
00:51:00
Speaker
And those hearings I mentioned where the ICIG turned up, intelligence care you know i offset the intelligence community general, and the DODIG as well, they turned up. They both gave evidence to Congress people in a skiff. Some other people have come and give evidence in skiffs to senators. So that's what they and they did happen. The only problem with that is that Congress people can't talk about it. They can't ask questions based upon it, but not specifically referenced here. So that did happen. But when they turned up after a pretty tight lips, even the inspector general one who I've taken cross seriously with talking about process, and we're pretty cagey, because they're still doing that investigation. But at some point, they're gonna have to show their reports. Because remember, dave said they've said they found groceries fine is credible and urgent.
00:51:53
Speaker
And there's been a lot of secret testimony given, so they can't take that back. And Groesch has a lot of evidence, written evidence, you know evidence from witness testimony. And he basically says, well, this stuff's being held and all the rest of it. So we're in this ludicrous situation in the secret world, as it were. We've got all this evidence and proof, very pretty good proof. We're probably passing a court law. And yet, because they know that you've got arrow and all that, they say, oh, no, nothing to see here.
00:52:21
Speaker
And it really is bizarre in some ways. And what they're hoping, I think, because they're backs against the wall, they've committed a lot of crimes and they could be in trouble, is that people are just going to lose interest, you know, and it'll go away. And that has happened in the past, but it's never been as intense as this before. It's never got to this stage before. But it has sort of happened in the past, that's all. So that's what they're trying to do.
00:52:46
Speaker
So we can have a look at what's sort of in the book to sort of finish off if you want. Or do you have anything else you wanted to ask? I suppose there's not loads to ask, because I've just gone through what happened. But I hope that's useful in terms of where we are in the last year. Essentially, we had a load of hoping last year, and it was going great. And then they fought back and tried to scupper it. And we had a low point with this report going up. We're now seeing this new push in the new year, so it's quite straightforward. And there has been a sort of hiatus, a period of nothing happening. Yeah, like I think this time last year, I think we were kind of like it was all going off. We had quite a lot of expectations and stuff. And it has turned out to be a bit of a dance crib overall. But even like in my head, it's been quiet.
00:53:37
Speaker
It actually hasn't like all the stuff you just talked about. I don't know if that's just because we are kind of used to a lot of things happening. We just very kind of focused that the past few years have just been so much happening compared to like say in the last 10 years. There's been nothing to now having even knows quite a lot of stuff happening. It feels quiet.
00:53:57
Speaker
Even though if we had this five years ago, it would be, my god, it's all going off. Just because of how busy it's been the last couple of years. I guess we're in this situation now similar to last year where something's happening. I say the book, these docs, it's not going to light the fuse. And we can have that A New Hope prequel or sequel maybe coming up over the next few months, I guess.
00:54:21
Speaker
Yeah, we just have to be optimistic. and No, you're right, though, because that is we have been spoiled. You're right. Over the past few years, it's been ramping up and it's been mad, you know, from 2022 onwards, really. And I think there is a bit of that just because it's not happening every day, as we've seen. And then, you know, and but people in this new where we are, we do, we do get a bit impatient because you get used to it, don't you? You know, if you're being fed, you know, I don't know,
00:54:49
Speaker
top food every day and or whatever you want, you know, the brilliant made free cosplay, then you're given a bit of a bit of college conflicts. It's also going a bit, even though it's all right. People don't like it. and he's So you're right. By comparison, the other thing, because the focus has been on this, they've raised the proof bar and the import of what's happening.
00:55:08
Speaker
there hasn't been as much focus on sightings and things like that. And the thing about AI is sort of damping that down. not So where we used to have a lot of sightings before, and we'd look at them, there has been a few, but there's not been as much focus on that because people are looking at what they see as the main prize of this proof. you know Because if you yeah they have got all this stuff, let's see it. So that's been a bit of a strange one as well. And I suppose it's good that groups like Yours Ash and all the rest of it are still keeping going.
00:55:39
Speaker
as they always do, looking at sightings, yeah doing the sort of artwork to keep the recording and that civilian side of it. The other thing we have seen the growth of these civilian organisations now that I've talked about, we have seen the growth of that and people sort of and that becoming part of the scene and and if disclosure does happen they may be become part of that picture politically as well and what's happening because what we want to see is it move from the secret sphere and the defence sphere into the sort of political and public sphere where
00:56:13
Speaker
some of the issues not all but some of the important things start to get discussed and that's the sort of prize but anyway we might be a long way away from that so should we have a quick look just to finish off on what might be in Lou's book just as it may be coming out uh it'd be out buying I suppose by today yeah it'd be out today yeah most people yeah exactly I said the title of it uh sorry title like is imminent yeah so I mean that's interesting on its own yeah just a title yeah that implying that something is hard to happen like you say you well there's there's a lot of rumors are sorry that's what you say i saying like imminent like is that referring to the truth to disclosure to other people coming out to like say him being that the start of it is now going to lead to everything else coming out with that title is alluding to that
00:57:04
Speaker
Yeah, well, you're right. Me and Frank have been back and forth about this. I've talked to a few people because, as you know, asked there's a lot of speculation around this 20, 27 year old something coming soon. What's going to happen? Is it some crisis going to happen? Is it some sort of war? Whatever the ET is going to show, the NHI show themselves. All these different rumors.
00:57:26
Speaker
We don't quite know what but that's been talked about, and people are wondering if imminent is a hes ah reference to that, is it? But the treaty's open, they're going to say, right, you've had your 70 years to tell them, get on with it, you know. But I mean, we don't know. But yeah, so there was that. and Yeah, I mean, I've heard some pretty sober groups and people stop talking about it, still talk about that. And while I'm not a great believer in the year 2020, 12 sort of things, because there's often a grifter very nearby, I think there may be something a bit to this. But I think the imminent title is deliberately ambiguous. He could allude to that, but he could allude to this is such a serious issue. And he
00:58:10
Speaker
the issue and there's some things we need to, we can't ignore any longer. So yeah, I've been back and forth from what it means, you're right. real tantalizing style definitely It's I mean, I read, what happened was it was leaked on this Amazon thing or Google. They often do previews of novels that if you're in part of, if you buy into the book club or whatever, you can see the novels in advance.
00:58:36
Speaker
And it got leaked via that service, but I thought it was paying attention. It was happening in the UK. And I wondered if it was our UK IC sort of doing a favour for their American cousins and discovering it. I have no way of knowing that. And it may just be a mistake. But either way, apparently what happened was some places, four chapters leaked, are there's an introduction by Chris Mellon, there's an introduction by Lou, then there was two chapters or two and a half chapters throughout. Other places apparently you got them plus a couple of others, odd numbered chapters, another three or four. And some people apparently got the entire book at first, but I am out. So it was a proper leak and apparently Lou's really annoyed about it as you would be, but you don't seem to have a dented sales. I mean, I've
00:59:25
Speaker
Well, I did, when I heard about it, I nipped on to, I found that somebody sent me the link fully enough. So I read Phoebe, I read till three in the morning, believe it or not, and it went off, because I knew that was going to happen. So I read sort of the forward by Chris Millon, the Losers introduction, the first two chapters, so I know a bit about them. And that was pretty good, but really the meets in the rest of the book. But I also was sent the, what the chapter headings are.
00:59:53
Speaker
So I've got them. So I was going to talk through them a bit, to see what we think. Yeah. But I saw anyway, as I say, I read a couple of the lead chapters and I seen the content disabled.
Lou Alizondo's Book and UAP Revelations
01:00:05
Speaker
And obviously it's I think it's all right to talk about it now, given the time you know it's going to be out when this is going through. And what I think it does the book, Justin, I don't know much more than what I said and what I read. It wasn't enough to tell me what it was all about or any big stuff.
01:00:20
Speaker
But I think he talks about, you've got to remember, Larry Alexander was in this program from about 2008, maybe a bit early, maybe 2006, right through to 2017, when he left. You know, they saw that problem, which turned into this 80 program, which was the bit that was left in the Pentagon. And and then he then he left because he couldn't get people to take him seriously and to take the threat seriously, as he saw it. So he's been involved, and I think the book's talking you through what he found and what he uncovered and that's why it's taken so long for it to sort of clear and effectively for what they were doing because it was started by people who wanted to know what was happening in these very secret legacy programs and they were almost running a parallel program of people who weren't in the know
01:01:11
Speaker
ah we in these very secret special access programs, highly compartmentalised, to find out what was going on and make sense of the threats. So he has access to a lot of confidential information, but not the key secrets, and he found out a lot from there, and they were very close to getting into that thing, but they didn't.
01:01:30
Speaker
so So I'll just go through it. If we've got something, we've got a bit of time. Chances are. So there's an introduction by Chris Mellon, which I've read, which is really good, which just says how important it is in the evidence he's seen. There's a follow-up by Lew, which is essentially says, buckle up, it's real.
01:01:49
Speaker
Then the first chapter to which I've read is called Damnified Do and Damnified Do and that's just about how he got approached to get into it and basically he had to do it because he felt he was his patriotic duty but he wasn't into UAP, he was just a job but he needed his intelligence skills and he felt that he needed to get involved with it just because of the sort of threat factor. Anyway, reluctantly he got involved then The first bit is about a meeting and he attended, I think it was in New York with all these Brazilian people. So it's about the Calaris incident, which you may remember, Ash, was in Brazil, where there was all these UFO shooting people beaming beams of light down through baking mills. Some people were killed. And that's the one example that's often held up to people who say, oh, they're all very friendly. And they tell me, what about Calaris?
01:02:39
Speaker
It was very well-reported. a Brazilian, they got footage of a Brazilian government, loads of case files. And anyway, Lew had sent in this meeting with some Brazilian sort of generals and military people, and I see a big dinner and talked about that. And I know from the book James Lekatsky wrote about, you know, the second OSAP book, the follow-on from Skinwalker Ranch. They talk about all the work they did there. So that's interesting.
01:03:06
Speaker
Then there's a one and this is where it run out called the Reluctant Warrior and that's about Lou's sort of early life and he's growing up and his dad who was a bit of a political sort of activist kicked out by Castro was Cuban you know and he was quite Harsh will bring you Luad. And he started in the military. And then so we went start with things I haven't read in the chapter title. So the first one, but I don't know about it, he's called Secrets Within. And I think that's about, and I'm guessing here, I might have egg on my face when we actually see, that's US secrecy. That's what the secrets, the US secrecy setup, I suppose, is what I'm trying to say on UAP. I think you'll outline that there.
01:03:51
Speaker
Then he's got something called the writing on the wall, which could be what the interaction with Europe is telling us, or maybe what needs to be done or what the phrase, that's what that implies to me.
01:04:02
Speaker
The next chapter is about called Orbs. And that might be about this whole thing about orbs that we see so much, the little ones and the big ones. Many people think are surveillance site systems, a fellow called Patrick Jackson and even argues they're a defense system, you know, on this planet, stopping over NHI coming into the planet. So anyway, they all think of orbs, which even Kirk Patrick referenced in his early days, when these true colors hadn't come out.
01:04:32
Speaker
Then there's something called tic-tac, which would be all about the limits, I think, and all the massive proof it was out there. The next chapter's there's called angels or demons. And I think I've done again, I don't know, this could be about our NHI good or bad. And the deeper question of what, just what are they? Are they supernatural? You know, are they sort of spirits in that religious sense or whatever dimensional sense? Are they just over being? So I think that's what that's probably about.
01:05:01
Speaker
I also think it might be about some faction in the US Air Force who think they're actually demonic because there is fundamentalist Christians and there's been a lot of reports at all over the years. I was going to say, if I remember it correctly, I can't remember if it's him or someone else that is kind of religious on this side, is that low? Is that someone else who has talked about it kind of being No, he's not really, he might go to church and a lot of Americans seem to do that anyway. I think it's someone else I'm thinking about. but No, but what he said, Galash, while you're remembering it, I think he's he reported specifically that a lot of his efforts were being thwarted, and the efforts in when he was at ATIP to get things out were partly being thwarted by fundamentalist Christians in the intelligence community from the air force, and they were part of the people.
01:05:53
Speaker
who were stopping it coming out. And the more sophisticated thing is they were being used by these other legacy people to do the dirty work. They were saying, God, look at all that demonic stuff there. You want to stop that. They were going, you're quite right. And so that's why you've heard him talk about that. Now, he's also, I think he's quite spiritual, though. And he talks about a few experiences with and indigenous peoples. you know ah that solve you know What they called?
01:06:23
Speaker
american indigenous people, Native Americans, and you know, and some other things like that. So there's a bit of that, but but yeah I don't think he he was criticising the evangelicals basically, Lou, and being very careful. Then there's another chapter then called Into the Void, which I think might be either Remote Viewing, and what that is, because there's rumours Lou did with Remote Viewing,
01:06:46
Speaker
or it might be what's known and what isn't known. So in that sense, that's an interesting one. I mean, I'm really, I'm guessing about what these chapters are, so it's just for people's interest. Then there's another chapter called The Secret in Their Brains. And that's possibly, I think, about what stuff Gary Nolan's been doing about why some humans seem more prone to interactions with others with a paranormal in general, not just UAPs. Is it something
01:07:14
Speaker
so That's what I think that might be about. that study Was it in all that study where the found experiences are the similar? i Yeah, in the basal gamma, yeah, that's that's right. and And that's what it was. And they were doing studies on pilots have experienced stuff and and other people, people have been, you know, had interactions and the people, have they seem to have this particular thing in their brain. And sometimes the brain had been altered.
01:07:43
Speaker
or the chemistry or whatever, after that as well. so But the part of thinking as well is some people are more predisposed, which might cut across all the things, the fields that you look at more broadly in the paranormal, for want of a better word, and all the other strange and you know high strangeness events that happen. There might be, because it might be that if there are other things happening that we can't see,
01:08:10
Speaker
then people are more able to see that I'm more able to feel them and we're only normally as humans exist in a very narrow spectrum. so i don't ah that's So I think that's what that's about anyway. Then there's the next one called the observables and this is basically what Luke called, I think, anyway, the five observers, or you could tell a UAP craft, it's handicap, it's, you know, no engine propulsion, and say, I can't remember them all now, but basically flying that in a way that doesn't comport when they know laws of physics. So that'll be about that and probably what we saw.
01:08:47
Speaker
ah Then there's another one called where the evidence lies and I think that's about what it might mean in terms of what the scientific evidence because he's often referred to quantum physics and a few of the others have. In slide nine he presented the TTSA group said oh it's all about we used to call it weird now we call it quantum physics I'm paraphrasing he said something else.
01:09:12
Speaker
But basically, I think that chapter might be about the science of it and what they've discovered, is it or consciousness what they've discovered there, or it might even mean where the evidence is in the US government. So that chapter may be interested in that sense.
01:09:29
Speaker
throughs and I presume that's about trying to make sense of what's going on and what it means. Then they got something about the USS Roosevelt and that was the one where they have the nuclear subs where they were going through the narrow straits near the Carolina Islands and all these, that one Jerry McCarville, all these drones inside these US Navy ships with a nuclear ordinance on them.
01:09:53
Speaker
and submarines see them. And I think that might be about USOs and maybe the underground bases, the old USO thing, and maybe this issue of nuclear attraction that the UAP seem to have. Because every time the Americans set say on nuclear aircraft carriers, destroyers have got nuclear cruise missiles on them. They seem to attract UAPs, it seems to me, often.
01:10:17
Speaker
what we understand and so there must be some sort of connection there and so that's what that might be about. Then they've got this issue called the 800 pound gorilla. Now i I remember this from one of Lou's shows two years ago And that's where this dilemma, if the NIH are looking at us, we're just about to get good tech. Maybe, you know, we've split the atom already. Maybe we're about to have an advancement in AI that gives us more science. And they see us as this 800 pound gorilla who's in a cage at the moment. I mean, we can't get out there, maybe holding us in the cage or
01:10:53
Speaker
our own lack of science holders in the cage and do they give us the key? Would you give the key to an 800 pound gorilla? I think that's what that's referring to. And it's about maybe our relationship with the NHI and whether they do give us the key or what our relationship is to the tech we've seen. So that could be a very interesting chapter.
01:11:15
Speaker
there ah The next one is called, I'm the horse you rode in on, and I think the American expression is, fuck you, I'm the horse you rode in on. So I don't know if this is what Lou thinks of some of the NHI, who might be our style, or whether the factions of the intelligence community, what they said to him when he inquired. So he couldn't believe it, I'm not sure.
01:11:36
Speaker
There's another chapter straight after that called the three heads of Cerberus. And as you will remember, Cerberus was the free-headed dog that guarded the gates of Hades. And this could be three different alien races maybe, or it may be the three different dilemmas that we have, I don't know, or it could be the three elements of the cover-up, which is basically the CIA, AVIC, US airports, DOD, and DOE. It could be that the three different yeah elements for these guys. That's what I think is actually the last one.
01:12:07
Speaker
Getting there to the end of the chapters, there's one called Out of the Air Lock, which I think might refer to it, activities in near Earth orbit, you know, and in space, but who knows?
01:12:18
Speaker
all the small things I didn't really know could be point of manipulation and maybe the science at the anatomic level tell us about people manipulating that and that's where the science lies. Could be we found Tom DeLong and TGSA. Yeah and that's right and all that and it could well be that. So it could mean anything now but I wasn't sure about that. Then there's one called the war plan and that could even be a plan for fighting NHI that's quite interesting because there has been rumors over the decades that secretly we have got weapons we've been developing like beam weapons and all that using their tech so we could fight back if there was ever it comes to that uh or the might and basically the idea is to keep it quiet until and let us develop this stuff i mean i thought that could just be a sci-fi tale people you know what and your wishful thinking
01:13:09
Speaker
or it could be yeah lose war plan for getting the secret out, it could be done, I don't know. Then there's one called the next level of disclosure and I wonder if this is about the treaties we've signed, any communications that we've had that he knows about, what did they really want, the NHIs and what is reality really?
01:13:31
Speaker
And there are there any horrible truths that we need to know about? Were we, at least not horrible, but were that, was our DNA manipulated? Are we somehow enthralled to these beings and they'd say, well, controllers and they're all around, who knows? Are even worse than that. And then finally, the last chapter.
01:13:50
Speaker
is new horizons and I think that might mean what it means for you humanity and where we go but it also might mean what Lou does. So they have a chapter that just to finish on these three parts and then you can come back on what you think. I think it depends on the detail and he includes how credible, you know, he includes and how credible that is. So I think it's got to be detailed and gives some pretty good revelation. Can't just talk in general.
01:14:17
Speaker
i'll be a disappointment if But arms I also think it's going to set like a thousand hairs running and people will be trying to find out, checking out FLIA's and really set a cat among the pigeons to mix my metaphors and to do it yet further spark this disclosure fire. But I've been wrong before Ash, as you know, so I might be wrong on that. So I don't know what you think of those. Sounds quite interesting, doesn't it? All those chapters, what it could refer to.
01:14:44
Speaker
Yeah it definitely gets us thinking about it and with what I see so I mean I didn't read any of the book that was leaked but I saw a lot of people kind of poo-pooing it or downplaying it a lot um from what they'd read or what had been leaked or released or whatever, what happened. So obviously know how you think, about what were you read? and But seeing a lot of people sort of saying it was like pretty basic or the stuff in there wasn't like anything groundbreaking, just hoping that that isn't the case as we read more of the book.
01:15:20
Speaker
as it go well Obviously you think that the more groundbreaking stuff would be later in the book rather than, because at the start it was going to be laying the foundations. That's right. I think it will be that used to it in all these incredible revelations but we haven't seen to think of what Grush has said.
01:15:40
Speaker
that in its own is mind blowing, if any of that's correct, and which we think is treaties, recovered craft and bodies, you know, you can't get much crazier than that. ah I think what Lou's going to be saying is just a detail of that. So some people, if it's not absolutely mind blowing, it'll never be good you enough. But I think he wouldn't have gone to all this trouble if he wasn't saying something pretty specific, incredible. And it'll be about what they're doing, I think.
01:16:06
Speaker
and interspersed with some of the dilemmas and some of the weird things they found out. So I think you couldn't, the concursory reading and say, oh, it's not, you know, what I was expecting, but I think if you, I think it will have some pretty incredible mind blowing detail in it and some things we have to think about. But yeah, who knows? sa far I can't seem to go into all this trouble and then seemingly planning around it.
01:16:33
Speaker
to then just write some sort of generalistic damp squid. And again, we've got all these people who we don't know who's being paid by you or what, they just don't like it, who are just going to downplay anyway. So we'll have to see. But I do think it's been built up that much. It probably isn't going to be, you know, at the top end of expectations because nothing ever is, is it? And it'll be the it'll be the consequence of what it reveals that's more important rather than just exactly, you know, it'll be the importance of, you know, in where he was and having proof of names and dates and when it happened it'll be that sort of thing. That's the important thing and saying this really happened and these are the people who were there and, you know, this is what we know about n h ite now and
01:17:19
Speaker
what they're thinking and where did you know and all that it'll be that sort of minute you or whatever detailed stuff well yes interesting point I mean yeah god knows I mean it's you still remember it is still under security of you to be certain things he won't been able to c say yeah yeah definitely no And yeah, so it would be interesting. But yeah, I mean, and well, as people looking at it today, I feel envious of them because we were talking a couple of days ago, so I haven't seen it yet. I'd be interested to see if I'm not bothered.
01:17:53
Speaker
if what I've said is inaccurate, probably some of it might be some of it isn't, but I'm not bothered, don't bother me. It's just I thought it'd be interesting for a bit of speculation for people based on what I know and what we know, just to sort of say about that. But I do think just looking at that, you can see it's going to go through a range of issues. And then what comes next will be very, very, very interesting. But it's definitely the return of the Jedi, all hopes. The a hope was paid in now it's come back as to what happens at all now. Yeah, definitely. And yeah, hopefully we'll see that explosion happening. Hopefully we'll see ah that fire lit and the fireworks going off in Congress. in Well, in the government and the secret services, that's what we can hope for. If nothing else, it gives us more to talk about.
01:18:47
Speaker
tonight's been great so much like said i've been out of it for about six months properly sort of being on top of it all and so it's really good to have that catch up yeah realize that's actually lots more happening than the father was yeah no no no that's right they'd be good for oh um blood you use much yeah you're quite a good test audience who knows a lot generally you know and seems to be backgrounding it So that's a good test to see what you find. There hasn't been loads happening. It's been a lot of noise and a lot of calm mouth, really. And so yeah there hasn't been that many. In fact, if day if you wanted to take a time off, it was probably quite a good time, really. So there you go. Well, listen, thanks thanks for having us. I really enjoyed it. And I think be hopefully people will find.
01:19:32
Speaker
a useful jumping off point to look at what happens next, whatever happens, and they can think about what we've sort of said, and then think about what they actually see happening on the ground, because it's probably quite a good time to reengage a bit, really. So we hope that it's been useful for that. I'm really glad to ask what you're starting, as you're relaunching the podcast now. You've got a bit of time, so I'm a bit hard, because you know I'm an avid listener. And I've yet to listen to the episode you mentioned, which I'm looking forward to.
01:20:02
Speaker
Because I think they're a great crew, the women who do the investigations there. So I'm thinking that'll be pretty good. Because I mean, I met them, the thing we go to in Manchester, they're really interested in including. So I'm sure it'll be good shows. So I'll probably be listening to that after this anyway. So anyway, it's great to show you do more shows anyway.
01:20:22
Speaker
Nice one. Cheers, Dave. And just to quickly mention a couple of events coming up in the next couple of weeks. For anyone in the world, I'm speaking at the Anomicon 2024, which is on the Somewhere in the Skies YouTube and podcast. But I can now be talking about UFO updates from the UK over the past couple of years. That's on September the 1st and the 2nd.
01:20:45
Speaker
Not sure which day I'm on, but it's over two dozen speakers over the couple of days. I'll be giving my 45 minute talk on that. And then I'll choose the third for those a bit more local.
01:20:56
Speaker
I'm giving a bit of a talk at an event in Manchester on Tuesday the 3rd of September. I've also got James Brody from Bergen UFO Group giving a headline talk about consciousness and UFOs. So head to ufoidentify.co.uk just to get any tickets for them or for a number of cards, go to a numbercon.com. So in the sky is not so free to watch virtual conference on September the 1st and the 2nd. Thanks again, Dave. Always a pleasure.
01:21:24
Speaker
was a punctu arch great i've really enjoyed it makes so fun be sweet series Thanks for our listeners and i'll see you next week for listening to Pursuit of the Paranormal with Ash Ellis, title music created by Steve Yarwood and Ambienfinity.
01:21:41
Speaker
If you like the show, please follow us on Facebook, YouTube, TikTok, X, and Instagram. And if you really like the show, please rate and review the show wherever you are listening. It really does help. See you next time. And until then, stay weird.