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Attack On Titan Season 4 Finale? (Ep 28) The Dawn of Humanity
726 Plays3 years ago
Well it looks like Attack On Titan isn't quite over yet, but the Animation Deliberation trio of Zuhair, Andrew and J Scotty are here to offer their thoughts and reactions to the anime's finale episode until it returns in 2023
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Transcript
Advertisements and Introductions
00:00:00
Speaker
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00:00:24
Speaker
On another episode of the Animation Deliberation podcast, we've been faked out once more as Attack on Titan is not quite done with this yet. We talk about news, more flashbacks, and more cliffhangers, and more right off the side we have no control over. You're invited to take a vacation.
00:00:41
Speaker
from everybody else's vacation to a place where you can explore cypress swamps and magical gardens and see a 65 foot waterfall that once powered an old mill that you can walk through today. Or just float along the cool rushing waters of an old fashioned swimming hole. See the places and plan your journey at visitmississippi.org slash outdoor adventure, Mississippi. Wanderers welcome.
Podcast Kickoff
00:01:09
Speaker
Sing along if you know the words. One, two, three, it's time for animation deliberation. A conversation and a celebration of our favorite action animated series. Yeah.
00:01:23
Speaker
Yeah, we are back. This is animation deliberation where we take action animation seriously, but not too seriously. I am your host Suhara Lee with me, my co-host Jake Scotty Sinclair and Andrew Rogers. I am going to get straight to the point with this one.
Attack on Titan Episode Analysis
00:01:37
Speaker
Um, I mentioned at the end of the Jujutsu Kaisen episode that if they did not have any indication of where they are going, I am going to throw a tantrum at the beginning of this. So lucky to all of our listeners, you do not have to hear me pissed off just
00:01:54
Speaker
abovewhelmed. This was an episode. It hit nonlinear timelines once more. It hit cliffhangers once more. It hit confusing the hell out of me one more. And I had to go listen to the rumbling afterwards because it did not play during this episode. But the good news is, is that
00:02:16
Speaker
We get more of the show. We just gotta wait till 2023 to get it. Uh, at least it's not four years. And at least I don't have to find out when I'm getting it after four years. So guys, how are you doing? And how'd you like this episode?
00:02:28
Speaker
Well, that was just one rambling of a rumbling that we had there. Geez, I wasn't expecting that. I'm actually possibly slightly more positive. I loved this episode. I'm going to say it flat out. It might be because we knew beforehand that we were getting more Attack on Titan. I was okay with the way that this went.
00:02:46
Speaker
But I thought it was a pretty good finale, but I know I have some differing opinions that I always want action in the penultimate episode and then kind of little story notes to finish off the season and leave you on a cliffhanger. So that's my partiality. So I could definitely understand why people were a little less whelmed with what was going on in this episode. Did we know that for sure before yesterday?
00:03:08
Speaker
Because that article dropped two hours before. We didn't know if it was going to be a long episode. If there was going to be surprise, here's a movie. We did not know that. No, I thought the article came out the day, but at least I read the article on that Saturday. No, I sent you an article and I was like, I don't have to be mad. And you respond to saying, well, we have two hours until the episode comes out. Scoots, how you doing, bud?
00:03:32
Speaker
I'm doing well. I think I kind of fall on the opposite end of the spectrum with Andrew there. I'm a little less whelmed with this episode, but I am glad that I've had a day or two to kind of let the episode gestate and I can find things to be positive about. But had I not been doing this podcast and been included with you guys that we were going to get more
00:03:53
Speaker
Attack on Titan in 2023, I would have been very upset because it's just I like the episode and there were great moments in the episode, but it's just such an odd choice to like move away from the momentum and the action and the buildup that we've gotten and then do a flashback episode and as great as it was to get some of those questions filled in and get to spend more time with Aaron when he was
00:04:14
Speaker
friends with his comrades. It was just a very odd choice for me. Like you, I was definitely missing hearing that opening theme song, the rumbling to set the tone and get me in the mood.
00:04:28
Speaker
Andrew off camera about this a little bit too, where I was really confused when the episode started. I thought it was a filler because of the way that dialogue rolled in when she was like, what if it could be something different? So I was like, no, this is not a filler episode. So when it goes up to the sky and comes back down and they're dressed up, I was like,
00:04:50
Speaker
No, are they really doing an episode everybody to be happy and like going to Marley like as normal people and like it wasn't until halfway through the episode I realized it's not what was happening and this was a flashback I was like, oh so I was like really confused and annoyed I Was of a similar mind as you I thought maybe she was pulling in a lot you on us and showing us a what-if scenario But the second I saw Sasha included that's where I started to be like, okay I'm pretty sure this is a flashback
00:05:18
Speaker
Yeah, I thought she was part of the one if, like, Sasha wouldn't be dead in this scenario. And it's like, I'm never going to complain about getting to see more Sasha, especially the first time that she tried ice cream. Like, just beautiful. I love everything about her. God rest her soul.
00:05:33
Speaker
And I think this goes into a little bit of why I also treated the episode differently is not only did we know just before the episode came out that there was more attack on Titan, I picked up on the fact that this was a historical moment fairly early on in the episode. I think when they were on the boat and said, we're the first people to leave these walls, this is what the mainland looks like. I was like, oh, okay, this is just a flashback of everything going on.
00:05:58
Speaker
And then after that i just got to enjoy these moments of glee with our characters like you said you know trying ice cream for the first time being all dressed up all handsome and pretty and just you know it was jolly go all around i got vibes from the opening scene of the original the titanic movie rather.
00:06:16
Speaker
that it was just them in this bustling city getting off of a boat. I was just like, this is so fun. Why don't we get more of this? So I just enjoyed the jovial side of things and just wrapping up on that note was a little bit happier to me. I don't know. I just like happy endings, I guess. Well, here's the thing. Once I realized what was going on and I was sitting on my chair thinking back on the episode, it was a good episode. Don't get me wrong.
00:06:41
Speaker
I did enjoy it. I do need to watch it again with the understanding of what's going on. But it's like I'm it's it's very hard to do nonlinear properly. And I don't think the dialogue explained well enough what was going on. And that's what threw me off. Had they been like at least something as simple as like, you know, a year ago or whatever to like, because once Aaron walked out of that courtroom and then started like
00:07:06
Speaker
showing scenes that happened that's when it was for me because how exhausted I was whatever the reason may be uh it was like oh I get it now but there wasn't really because of Mikasa's dialogue it threw me off so hard um
00:07:23
Speaker
It was a good episode. I really did enjoy it. I'm glad that they announced that it's coming out before this episode aired because that was a really sick ending. As if those titans weren't terrifying enough walking, that scared the piss out of me when they were swimming. Oh, yeah.
00:07:47
Speaker
That was not a comforting sight. And the way they rolled under the ship and the steam like wiped everyone out, I was like, Oh my God, this is epic. I love this. I'm excited for next season. Next part, part three. Yeah. Yeah. Who knows if part three is the last part. That's the other crazy thing. It's the final season, but who knows what it's ending.
00:08:09
Speaker
Yeah, I will say that answered a question that I had, but I didn't like the answer. Because at first when they were like, the Titans are crossing the sea, I'm like, how tall are the colossal that they can walk across? Like, is this supposed to be the English Channel? So maybe it's not that deep. I didn't expect them to swim. And it's now more concerning seeing them swim that fast.
The Power of Colossal Titans
00:08:31
Speaker
And so like agile. No, I don't like it. It was weird.
00:08:34
Speaker
I am totally on the same page with you. I had in my mind this whole time imagining the rumbling. I was imagining them walking across the ocean. It was kind of like a dope moment for me. I was like, of course they're huge and tall, but they're not tall enough to like walk along the ocean floor. So yeah, I'm with you. It was probably my favorite scene of the entire episode is just getting that action and seeing them, you know, wreak that destructive havoc there. But yeah, seeing Colossal Titan swimming is absolutely terrifying.
00:09:03
Speaker
I thought it was like up to the thigh or the waist or something so you could see like their top halves rolling through because they didn't quite I don't know again like
00:09:13
Speaker
They've been behind a wall for so many years. They could have been calling everything to sea and it just been like the Nile River. You still need big boats to cross the Nile. True. Yeah, that is fair. I think it goes into, this is a conversation I've had with other people way off, the scale of the Titans that the colossal Titan in and of itself is 60 meters tall, which is shorter than the Empire State Building or the Statue of Liberty for people who need that as a point of reference.
00:09:41
Speaker
Fairly small in the grand scheme of things like a big example that was used in another point of reference if anyone wants to watch a great video there's a corridor digital video called Titans IRL which gives you this scale you guys remember the evergreen boat that got caught big cargo ship.
00:10:00
Speaker
the colossal Titan could lay on that sideways and not be bigger than it. And this thing was, I want to say, seven times as long as it was wide. So it's not very big. So to be able to walk across ocean would just I don't even think it would make it across the Nile if I had to be honest. Wow. Okay. Hmm.
00:10:17
Speaker
I mean that was like really wild too like you see the the cannonballs actually were lethal if they like hit the neighbor hit the spine just perfectly but like when they started coming up and like some other heads were missing and they're still marching I was like oh you guys are
00:10:32
Speaker
F-bombed. How about the steam they were generating? I just had to imagine that steam coming off the salt water just added extra corrosive and erosive properties, so you just saw those people get completely mutilated by the steam. It was grotesque, but also incredibly awesome. Yeah. That was their cue to understand where they were, too. Once they saw the steam hit a certain range, they were like, well, they're in the water somewhere there.
00:11:02
Speaker
Now, just imagine being those people who had never seen Titans before, though, and then to suddenly just have that pop out of the water. Mm hmm. That's even scared that it popping over the wall in the first episode. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? Yeah. And those guys are so tall, like they're not even trying to eat people. They're just going to march through and step on everyone and steam them through.
00:11:24
Speaker
Well then you you get that wall of Titans looming towards you and then looming over them as the attack slash founding Titan who I have to say I do not understand that skeletal anatomy at all. I don't know what's going on. I can't wait till we get like a
00:11:41
Speaker
Diagram or full breakdown of what's happening with that skeletal structure because I do not understand it currently. It's a big fish Okay, the first founding Titan It was the ribs that were coming out and like developing it So this is just like a big because you gotta understand like it's the war hammer Titan, too So those ribs are probably shooting out and down and like actually like making a structure because he's a three in one and
00:12:09
Speaker
Okay, I buy that. Yeah, I just still stand by it's a big fish. It had some very like, it had those rigid features and the way it was almost slithering through the ground as though it was swimming side to side like a fish and it had the
00:12:25
Speaker
I don't want to say spikes coming off the back, similar to a dinosaur, but basically how a fish fin would kind of pop out. They have that non-rigid structure on the top there that it felt very, very fish-like. And then just the errand head at the front though, because it wasn't a solid head. It just kind of dangled there. I'm talking a lot with my hands. I apologize if I'm not doing a good job of explaining this out. We watched the episode. We know what you're talking about. Yeah, that's true.
00:12:50
Speaker
This reminded me of something that I wanted to talk about in the last episode, but it was just so perfect that I never got around to it. Do you remember the opening for season two at the end where the Beast Titan is running and all those animal titans are with him, including a flying blue whale and a giant sea turtle? I do remember that. All their hearts were glowing.
00:13:13
Speaker
You mentioned the fish reminded me of that. Like, what was that about? We never got any, like... I'm still upset about that. I'm still very upset about that because I watched that intro and there's dinosaurs in there. I'm like, wait, this world has dinosaurs in it? We're going to get to see the beast titan and some dinosaurs run around. Let's go. And then no explanation. It's just in the intro. I'm still upset. We just want to put this in there with this insane ending with no explanation whatsoever.
00:13:45
Speaker
You mentioned the fish was just kind of like, is that supposed to be the whale?
Debate on Eren's Ethics
00:13:51
Speaker
I mean, if I had to guess at this point, it was probably like an evolutionary line kind of thing, talking about how nature got to that point. But it was still a fake out I didn't appreciate. Yeah. Well, speaking of the whale and the beast Titan that does bring up another question I have, do we know what Zeke's fate was at this point in time?
00:14:12
Speaker
No, I don't believe we do. Okay, because I'm wondering if that's one of the things we'll get. Yeah, I have to imagine it's not something they would they would do off screen, but I'm also kind of theorizing that maybe like, in order to create the founding Titan, like Aaron somehow absorbed him or encompassed him in some regards. So maybe some of those beast Titan qualities are coming out.
00:14:36
Speaker
Well, because there's that whole thing that he can't control the Titans and use the founding Titan power unless he's touching a Titan with royal blood, which is Zeke. So I feel like that means he definitely hasn't killed him. The question is, did he absorb him? Is he still in the coordinate space? Is he just a spirit? Is his body just somewhere hiding in the fish rib cage? I don't know.
00:15:01
Speaker
It's going to be like the scene from The Lion King where Zazu is just in the rib cage in Scar's lair and it's just Zeke hanging out there playing the drums on his ribs.
00:15:09
Speaker
I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts. I mean, you say you hope that it doesn't happen off screen, but let's be fair. Like if they're gonna make a new season, it is going to happen off screen. Then we're going to spend half an episode, if not a whole episode doing non-linear timeline. We're not jaded.
00:15:32
Speaker
Yeah, just like that fish. There's a lot of saltwater steaming out of me right now. I do have to say as terrifying as that scene was, it was not the scariest part of the episode. The scariest part of the episode
00:15:46
Speaker
Was that clown. That clown. Yes! I was waiting to get that. I wanted to talk about the whole sequence. That clown was just like, I don't know how Levi did not slit that. Hello, little boy. I'm talking to you. I'm talking to you. That was so creepy. That face! I was like, Levi, elbow him. Elbow him now. Break his nose.
00:16:16
Speaker
Break his nose and shove that lollipop down his throat. Move over, Tim Curry. Why is he still talking? That clown so much. Like, yo, personal space. And you think he's a little boy and you're all over him? Like, yo. Yeah, Pennywise don't have nothing on that clown. That clown was nightmare fuel. Could be a whole spin-off series just on that.
00:16:44
Speaker
What is this clown's backstory? We need to know. Levi versus the clown. That ain't a fight. Until it turns out that this clown is coming back in the last part to have some major significance. The clown is a warrior candidate. I don't want to see the clown titan. I'm good. The clown's a warrior candidate. I'm just saying, it was shoehorned in there. Feels like it could come back.
00:17:12
Speaker
It could. It could. Nothing gets put in without intent except for those animal titans at the beginning of that. That and them wanting to feed a car carrots.
00:17:23
Speaker
Right, right. That was great. Yeah, it was. And who was it? Anya Capone was like, oh, they wouldn't do that. Oh, they're buying carrots. The way that his face changed and everything to his goal. I wish we had more of Anya Capone. He was so good in this episode and just like he feels wasted as the comedic efforts that he could have had in the rest of the series.
00:17:49
Speaker
Yeah, it was great to have him, but it did raise more questions in my mind. It was the inclusion of him as well as now the woman that we saw from the Azumobito clan, was that the same woman we saw earlier in season four? Because I felt like we saw the first time she met Mikasa, but this felt like they had history. I was very confused as far as the timeline goes in that regard. So I think in my head, I have this one clear.
00:18:17
Speaker
This was after the first time they had met. So I believe the woman's name is Kiyomi. They went over to the island to be the island's first breath at the outside world. And then they said, why don't you come to Marley, see what we have going on? I'm assuming she's the one that gave them the clothes, got them to a place that they could take this charter boat to the mainland.
00:18:39
Speaker
and then said, okay, come visit me in my own residence. We'll talk about what's going on there. So I'm assuming this happened after that first time that she met Mikasa and all the rest of them. That's why it wasn't a Oh, this is who we are.
00:18:52
Speaker
It was a no, you're here to observe our government going ons. And they were specifically there to try and meet up with whatever party it was that was trying to speak for the Eldians and then obviously wasn't speaking for the Eldians on Paradise. Yeah. Cause their interaction happened after Yelena was there on the scout trip. Right. Yeah. On the scout ship. That's the word. And basically like betrayed Marley or whatever. And then Mikasa and Hermit after that.
00:19:21
Speaker
Okay that makes sense but i guess what was kind of confusing me further was the fact that they chose to have i mean it makes sense that aaron and elena would have met in private to discuss what they were discussing but it also made me. Kind of think that elena wasn't quite ready to reveal herself because she was going to show up later but knowing that that all took place before hands makes it.
00:19:42
Speaker
make a little more sense to me.
Eren's Transformation and Impact
00:19:44
Speaker
OK. Yeah. You know, there were a lot of jumping timelines because there's also the scene of Aaron and Historia that I have no idea where that one goes in the timeline. As much as we know, it's before he totally leaves everyone. We don't know is that before he goes to the mainland or did he come back or anything? I don't know when that scene happened. Right. And I think that was before.
00:20:11
Speaker
I think it would have been before they went to the mainland because didn't Mikasa say that was the last time we saw Eren, so presumably he stayed on the mainland from that point onward. That's when he went out to the war, cut off his leg, poked out his eye, and then started to try and for frenzy. Yeah, that was a whole crazy scene that I didn't put thought into before how Eren would have lost his leg. I just assumed, oh, Titan Powers just popped that off. Right, yeah.
00:20:40
Speaker
Yeah, I thought he was like used to getting his arms chopped off so much that he did it with ease. But the way that it was just such a slow process and he was the way his hand was shaking as I was getting closer to his eyes. And you could tell as much as yeah, as much as it was pain from having to like saw through his own like he was also like, trying to keep himself from going tight. And then he kind of had that like little like aftershock that was noticed by the other Marley and soldiers. But
00:21:07
Speaker
Yeah, that was a tough scene to get through as well. And then I'm glad they didn't go full on with the bullet. They kind of left a little bit to the imagination there. I just, why not use the gun to at least make it quick? Yeah. Like as much as it would probably be more painful, I guess. I can't imagine doing that to yourself. Well, he was completely on a solo mission at that point. So I mean, he's got the resolve to make it happen. Yeah.
00:21:38
Speaker
I was hoping the timeline was updated but it is not and I don't blame them because it's only been like 24 hours and that was a mess of Mm-hmm Don't sound so sad buddy. I feel like we figured out some of it here. Yeah, I definitely feel a lot more clear Yeah, but I mean it was it was just kind of like an interest. It was kind of like an interesting point with the story to just that like the fight or flight
00:22:08
Speaker
and like Aaron is trying to protect her and like we're we're we question like his motive and like why he's doing what he's doing so much and like we got like all of that compressed into like a five minute flashback I guess um so it was just it was a lot to unwrap and I just haven't had too much of opportunity to do it and one of the the historian thing was one of the ones that really threw me off so like
00:22:39
Speaker
he doesn't want people eating their parents anymore. I don't understand why she had to go get pregnant. Like, was that just an excuse to be able to stay away from all the drama? Or like, what was it? Because she's sitting on her porch with a bump, like watching the Titans go through, so. So if I had to hazard a guess,
00:23:03
Speaker
He said in that little conversation they had, the MPs want to use you they want to inject you with Titan serum make you eat Zeke. Right. And I think her response was, well, what if I'm pregnant, they can't make me become a Titan. If I have a baby.
00:23:20
Speaker
you know, or if I'm carrying a baby, suddenly that means they have to wait longer. Does this give us a window of time to figure things out as opposed to them forcing this on her because at that point when she said what if I get pregnant, obviously she wasn't pregnant. So it had to have been some solution to a problem and that's the only parallel that I can find. Do we have any indication who the father was or father is?
00:23:46
Speaker
There was the line earlier in the season of one of the MPs asked who the father is, and they said it's some farm boy she grew up with. He doesn't seem to have any motives. I'm going to ask the question, do we think it's Aaron? Somewhere in the back of my mind, I was definitely suspecting it might be Aaron, just with especially Mikasa, her whole exchange with him about, what am I to you? Why do you care so much about me? Is it just because I'm family?
00:24:15
Speaker
Is it something more? And she has that question, what if I had said something else, would it have changed things? So I think it's becoming more and more apparent that she has a more romantic feeling towards him, which the only other character that I think we've gotten any kind of sparks of romance would be between Aaron and Historia, which is surprising giving Historia's history with Ymir. Yeah.
00:24:44
Speaker
I kind of forgot about that. It feels like so long ago at this point. I mean, he also said he would wipe her memory. So maybe they did bang and it was just kind of like, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's he did bring that up, didn't he? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting point. I just fear for the timing of this baby in what it could mean for the repercussions of the show going forward. Because it's not over like it was supposed to be.
00:25:14
Speaker
No one said it was going to be over. I'll give them that defense. Still sucks, but... Literally, the final season has hit three years now. It started in 2021. Part two ended in 2022. We're waiting for part three in 2023. What season goes over three years? These animators need time to do their talented work. We can't rush them.
00:25:45
Speaker
Don't follow the final season! Get your game plan going and release accordingly!
00:25:54
Speaker
You already had a 4 year gap between season 2 and 3 in which it took 4 years to do it in a 2 month timeline of the show. Everyone has hit puberty and hit a different point of the life. Like in a binge we hear the voice change when it was literally from yesterday to today.
00:26:17
Speaker
Why did you just wait and do it right? You made us wait four years for so many things anyways, like just do it right. I mean, there was a four year time jump in the middle of these other two seasons though. I hate poor communication so much.
00:26:37
Speaker
Well, the subject of communication fighting the urge to Read the manga so strong right now. Hmm. Hmm. I couldn't do that to myself I need to I need to wait this out and see what happens on the big screen Scoots, how are you gonna divert it with communication? Yeah, I was gonna say I can't let that segue just fall on deaf ears on the subject of communication one of my favorite moments in this episode other than the rumbling scene was the
00:27:07
Speaker
basically celebration between our scouts and these refugees and just how beautiful it was that they didn't have to speak the same language. They could have that camaraderie. They could share in each other's culture and just have a good time. And these friends, it really feels like it was the last time these friends were able to just be young people and have fun and not have a care in the world and a world that is just so ripe with conflict. It was beautiful.
00:27:34
Speaker
It was really nice. Did they did they say something in broken English? Because the subtitles didn't come up for me. But like the first time I heard it, I was like, wait, what?
00:27:44
Speaker
I didn't catch anything that seemed English-based. I think it was just meant to be a language they didn't understand. Right. That's what I took away from it. It was cool the first time that we saw the other subjects of Amir and how they looked very Turkish. And when he brought out the tea set and the foods and stuff, I was like,
00:28:07
Speaker
This is very like Persian Turkish influence and I love it and it looks cool. And I'm even more sad that they're being shut down by what we've just been calling Nazis, but yeah, it was just cool how they were intense and just so welcoming and everyone was just having a good time.
00:28:26
Speaker
Yeah, that minute that really just made me happy was the old man smile with the slightly broken teeth as he offered them the cans. And I question, you know, they're obviously on a totally different timeline of development. They're behind the rest of the world. Have they not figured out distilling liquor yet? Like, was this their first experience with this clear liquid that gets them drunk? Because we had always seen, you know, wine and other things like that. Was that why they were just like, Oh, what is this magical substance? Let's moonshine down each other's mouths and have a great time.
00:28:56
Speaker
I do have to say that's a that older gentleman's toothy grin for whatever reason it really reminded me of star wars visions that episode the elder oh yeah he had that toothy smile just like that yeah.
00:29:13
Speaker
Uh, no, that was such a fun scene though. They were just so accepting and to watch them all get the blush on their faces. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was great. Yeah. And then when, uh, when they all found him, I would all just like passed out on the ground. Yeah. It was a nice closeup of, um, Mikasa's hand on, uh, Aaron and then Armin like being in the shot too.
00:29:38
Speaker
Yeah. Did you notice I think Sasha was throwing up in the background though? I did not. Oh, that's hilarious. I think Vaver passed out and she was just like, nope, can't do this. And it made the line of I want my friends to be happy, even more beautiful. Because again, like we don't know what Aaron's motive and intentions been
Ethical Dilemmas and Consequences
00:30:02
Speaker
all this time. It's just, it seems so wild. But to
00:30:06
Speaker
it's commendable like how much he's fighting for his friends and family and stuff and how he just wants the people bought on parody to just live in peace but like
00:30:18
Speaker
Oh, the means. Yeah, it starts a really interesting conversation about ethics of, you know, if if I can do anything to protect those that I love, why shouldn't I do it? Well, you have to do a lot of things. At what point are you completely outweighing it? At what point are you completely blowing things out of proportion? And I mean, it's,
00:30:40
Speaker
There's no way you could say at any point that what Aaron is doing is right now. Yeah. But earlier on in the seasons when he had the little goals of like, well, what if we can make it outside the walls? What if we can kill all the Titans? What if we can do these incremental things to save all of the people I care about? It makes sense that he's gone to this extreme, but also somewhere along the way he broke an ethical threshold of you can't do this anymore. And unfortunately, no one saw it coming before that it's it's a great commentary, but
00:31:11
Speaker
at what point and I think that's part of what Mikasa was getting at in this episode is where did it change? Was it always there? Why are we suddenly seeing it now?
00:31:20
Speaker
you know, was this the moment that he broke when he walked out? Or was he broken before that? Like the minute he was standing in the ocean the first time and pointed and said, our enemies are over there. If we kill them all what changes was he broken then? Or did he not know what was across the ocean? Did you think there were more Titans? There's, there's so many interesting questions that do appear when you start to really dig into the thought process of what Aaron is doing. Because they also had that question early on of was he going to do the rumbling or the euthanasia plan was one of those ethical
00:31:49
Speaker
Probably not. Could he have come up with a different one that he was hiding this whole time that again, could have arguably been ethical? We don't know. And could he possibly have some other secret plan that we're going to find out about when the Titans do hit landfall, and he stops after Marley or something random like that? There's just so many places this can go when you start to really dig into why Aaron is doing everything. I think how I understood it when he looked at the ocean was
00:32:18
Speaker
we finally got past the wall like is is the ocean or the sea this new wall like what's the thread beyond that so he was on a
00:32:29
Speaker
Upon arriving to Marley, I think he was just super uncomfortable, where it's like, are these people really threats? And then when the anger of the situation came out in that courtroom, especially after seeing what happened to the pickpocketer and how Levi had to save him, I think that was kind of, that was just like the final straw. It's like, yeah, these aren't good people. They're trying to hurt us. Like, Ryan is here right now. We need to take care of this before they come back.
00:32:57
Speaker
I agree with that, but I also think that he doesn't necessarily think that they're all bad people. He understands that he's going to be sacrificing innocence. It's just that it's worth it to him to end this cycle of hate, as he put it, because one act of violence begets another. I think the flawed reasoning in his thinking is that even if he does successfully complete this rumbling and start civilization all over again, conflict is just inherent to human nature.
00:33:27
Speaker
Yeah, look at the Civil War going on on parody right now. Because of the Aegurus. Yeah. That's exactly what I was going to say. What do we think would happen if Aaron could see what Floch? Floch? Oh, Flock. Flock. Flock. If he could see what Flock has been doing, would he have turned the rumbling around and said, nope, you don't deserve to be doing this anymore, seeing that he's basically doing the exact same thing that Marley was doing to the Eldians,
00:33:57
Speaker
as the Eldians and the Yegorists are now doing to all of the people who aren't originally from parody. It's turning around before he can even finish the rumbling, which, like you said, is a testament to conflict being inherent to humans. Right. And then he's talking about wanting to protect his friends and stuff. We haven't seen what his reaction was to Sasha dying, but the fact that it was at the hands of a Marley, and I'm sure it just triggered his plan even more. It's like, yep, I don't have too many of them left. I got to fast track this and just kill them all.
00:34:27
Speaker
Well, there was that one scene in this episode where they did the little flashback to Sasha dying, and it panned over to Aaron for the first time with that crazed look in his eyes of what is going on right now, how can I handle this? And I have to wonder if it's a little bit of what you're talking about, that that was just another crumbling point for him of, I couldn't save everyone, I need to do more. Okay, the rumbling is next. Hmm. Yeah. I buy all of that. I think it was, you know, so many things just
00:34:57
Speaker
Compiled on top of each other that he did eventually did break, but I also Even having said that I do have kind of the same question as Mikasa because like the final line of dialogue We got from him is that I'm going to wipe you all out and it just harkens back to that first episode What he was saying to the Titans. I'm going to wipe them all out like I just think He's got that
00:35:18
Speaker
that violent streak within him and he's a fighter and he needs someplace to displace that angst. That's why his characters not always rub me the right way. It is interesting how calm he's been throughout this flashback. True.
00:35:34
Speaker
True. Yeah, there's also another weird conversation to have as you talk about things Aaron has said before being taken different ways. The manipulation of Mikasa to find out that Zeke was saying there's nothing in the history books that says the afterman's got headaches. You know, I don't think that's her protecting you because you're some honorable person. She just actually cares about you. And that was his moment to be like,
00:36:00
Speaker
I have to protect her but can't let her think that i am so we're gonna make her think that this is all her fault. What what what kind of logic is that to throw away a person that you care about like that for. I don't even totally understand his motives there was a moment i started to and then he said something else and it just i would have to watch that whole scene back because there was a lot of subtext going on there.
00:36:26
Speaker
Love me, love me, say that you love me. She got fooled all right. Fooled around and fell in love. And they didn't even kiss. Yeah. I really want to know if him and Astoria did it now. Why do you have to say it like that?
00:36:53
Speaker
No, I don't I don't know if I'm picked up my shrug for the listeners. Yeah Yeah, I don't know what that means though. If Aaron's the dad like I I don't know Then it could be another Titan bit. I don't know Maybe he wants his son to eat him. I don't know. Oh That would be just desserts no pun intended
00:37:21
Speaker
Can't be better than ice cream. Nah. I could go for some salsa right now. I wish McDonald's ice cream machine worked. Mine doesn't either. Is McDonald's having like a nationwide ice cream shortage or something that I don't know about?
00:37:40
Speaker
I mean, it's just a stereotype. Yeah, no, the ice cream machine just never works. Oh, okay. I don't frequent McDonald's enough to catch that one. It's just an ongoing jab at McDonald's. I mean, it shows it was a great episode. We went 40 minutes straight about it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we're running out of things to say, but at the same time, we've talked plenty.
00:38:02
Speaker
okay i gotta bring this up because it's just this is gold and i don't know why i didn't start this earlier we're talking about how we wish that we got more like comedic scenes and how wholesome this stuff is attack on titan junior high is an incredible show
00:38:20
Speaker
Incredible. Oh my god. I am only like three episodes in but all of them like as like chibis and having the same voice actors and
00:38:34
Speaker
They stole the intense music and everything for the silliest things. It's hysterical. Why didn't I start watching this sooner? I don't know if I mentioned this on an episode before, but it just has to be put out so this needs to be watched. I text TJ Stafford about it. I was like, dude, you got to add this to your list. He was like, I just don't know how I felt about it the way it is, but he talked about it. I thought he was like, yeah, no, this is awesome.
00:39:00
Speaker
Yeah, I only watched the first episode, but that is actually what kind of reminded me about the romance between Ymir and Historia, aka Krista. But yeah, I did enjoy it for what it was and just the whole fact that his motivation is a Cheeburger.
00:39:16
Speaker
My Cheeburger! The time I introduced a bunch of bullies stealing everyone's lunches and the way that Vikasal like ran like five blocks to come by and bump into Eren. Right, right. That was just so great.
Lighthearted Recommendations
00:39:35
Speaker
Well, at least I have something now to tie me over while I'm on this attack on Titan hiatus I'm also have either of you watched any of the I think of the OADs Is what they're called? I have not So they have a couple they are one-shot episodes I think there's like five or six of them that are actually the backstories of several of the characters Oh
00:40:00
Speaker
So there's one that I've watched the first part of and it's like the backstory on Levi and him growing up prior to, I think it's just after he meets Kenny. So it's part of his life in the underground before he goes above ground, how he ends up getting into the scouts. It talks about why he loves cleaning so much. There's a lot of intricacies to it. I was just curious. They might be kind of worth a watch as we do it. Where did you watch on Crunchyroll? Are they on Hulu?
00:40:26
Speaker
I'm not sure if they're on Hulu on Crunchyroll they're labeled as like another season. Okay, so you guys would have to take a look and let me know because I don't have a Hulu. But it is another interesting thing as we're talking about tying ourselves over that I think everyone probably should watch at some point because it's not necessarily spoiler content. But it is interesting to get a little bit more background on some of these characters.
00:40:51
Speaker
Yeah, I'll definitely look into that. See if it's available on Hulu or not. Let me take a quick glance here. Apparently it's on Funimation. That could be part of the new partnership as well. I know Crunchyroll and Funimation have partnered, bought out, something like that. Memoirs of a scout regiment member, the torturous curse of youth, distress, no regrets part one, no regrets part two. I believe those are it.
00:41:20
Speaker
Lost Girls, Walcena, Goodbye Part 1, and there's a Part 2, and Lost Girls, Lost in the Cruel World. And it has that recap movie that's apparently only on Funimation. Oh yeah, the one you brought up, yeah. What'd you say? Crunchyroll bought Funimation? Funimation bought Crunchyroll? Someone bought someone.
00:41:51
Speaker
Order matters. Order does matter, but. Well, whoever bought who clean up Funimation's app, cause it's garbage. Sony's Funimation bought Crunchyroll for a large amount of money. So the tune of $1.2 billion. I noticed Crunchyroll wasn't an option on HBO Max anymore, but Toonami still is.
00:42:15
Speaker
Yes. And that makes sense because AT&T, who used to own Crunchyroll, owns HBO Max. Bet you listeners weren't getting a business talk today. Coming to you from your local MBA student. I feel like we are just beating around the bush at the end at this point, though. Yeah. Yeah. We're almost double the length of the episode at this point. So I feel like we should keep it under an hour as the resident editor here.
00:42:43
Speaker
So as we close out the episode here, what we have going on now that Attack on Titan has ended is Young Justice has returned to us with the second half of season four. And currently out now, the first three episodes dropped on HBO Max. And Jay Scottie and I covered that this past week. So we have an episode up where you can listen to our lovely thoughts. There's a lot to go over in those episodes. And hopefully when Zoo Hair comes back, we will continue with the next episode this upcoming week and have more great things to say.
00:43:13
Speaker
And then on top of that, Zuhar, do we also possibly have some other anime coming down the stream here soon? Well, we seem to love the Jujutsu Kaisen movie quite a bit. So I am almost halfway through that. We'll do a part one coverage of season one and part two as as details roll around. Really a timeline for that since it's already over. This is true. But I figured since we were getting close to the halfway watching point, we would probably produce an episode at some point.
00:43:43
Speaker
Yep. Guess you're going to have to tune in for that. That's my line. I don't spell it. I'll leave the spell. I'm just messing anyway. Don't let the foreign guys spell things.
00:44:02
Speaker
Yeah, and I will just remind the listeners that on our Young Justice coverage, I did mention that I noticed on HBO Max that Blade Runner Lotus has released. So please let us know if you have any interest in that. I am definitely interested in covering it. If there's enough interest, we will probably put out like a season review of sorts. I think that's going to be the correct approach for that one.
00:44:23
Speaker
And the same can be said for Vox Machina because I have also started it. And I know you expressed some interest as well, Jay Scottie. So I think that'll probably be a one season cover as well. So if you watch that, let us know and we'll try and get that to you at some point as well. I thought we were doing Arcane first. I'm still split between three shows now. Uh oh. Uh oh. It's content overload season and I love it, but also I hate it. Yeah. Yeah.
00:44:53
Speaker
Well, if you love what we're doing here and don't hate what we're doing here, I would encourage you to also leave us a review. It doesn't have to be five star per se, but we definitely appreciate those five star reviews. Just give us a rating, a review, wherever you listen to us and share the show if you like what we're doing. That's huge to our growth. This is our 72nd episode. We're just coming off of
00:45:14
Speaker
a year of animation deliberation. So it is a great time to be a fan of animated content. And thank you so much for tuning in. And that's T-O-O-N-I-N. Stay well for another year. Until 2023, muscle, muscle.
00:45:32
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Animation Deliberation Podcast, a proud member of the Strandepanda Network. If you would like to contact us, you can email animationdeliberationpodcast at gmail.com or follow us on Twitter at animationdelib1. For this and other great shows, you can visit Strandepanda.com or join the great community that is the Strandepanda Chat Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash svchat. Tune in next time and remember, stay well.
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Speaker
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