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The Frenemy Mindset: How To Break Up With Bad Self-Talk And Build Inner Safety With Nikki Heyder
33 Plays3 months ago
In this episode, Nikki Heyder and I unpack the Frenemy — the bad self-talk that feels protective but quietly shapes the limits of our lives. We explore how this voice keeps us stuck, how inner safety shifts everything, and why recognising it is key to genuine self-awareness. We also dive into the ripple effect of our energy — the impact we create far beyond what we can see — and how changing our inner dialogue transforms the world around us.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Connected with Eva' and Guest Nikki Hayter
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to Connected with Eva. Today I'm chatting with Nikki Hayter, a psychotherapist and somatic coach. We dive into how to move forward when life feels stuck, how to open yourself up to new possibilities, and what it really takes to keep growing and connecting along the way.
Understanding Bad Self-Talk: A Self-Protective Mechanism
00:00:18
Speaker
What is bad self-talk and why does it block us from where we want to be in life? The easiest way to explain what it is, is that it's a self-protective mechanism.
00:00:30
Speaker
Your inner critic, if you want to call it that, or your negative self-talk, it's the part of you that is trying to protect you from pain and suffering. It's the part of you that doesn't want you to feel embarrassed, ashamed, abandoned, disconnected. All of these human fears, these these huge fears that we have as human beings, the purpose of that talk in our mind is simply one of safety. And I think a lot of people misunderstand its purpose, you know, because we often get annoyed at it.
00:01:02
Speaker
Sometimes people might have it and not know it's bad self-talk because it's their normal talk and they don't differentiate between good self-talk and bad
Self-Awareness and Its Impact on Self-Talk Perception
00:01:13
Speaker
self-talk. It's just how they perceive things. So there's no other.
00:01:18
Speaker
There's just that. So on that level, it's how you see the world. It's the only thing that you recognize. And then there's that level where you know there is a difference.
00:01:29
Speaker
And then you start battling with yourself almost like back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. You're making it your enemy and it's in your head and it's in your whole system. Well, you get frustrated with yourself. You become these two characters like, you know, Frankenstein, basically. No, I have this monster living inside of me and you're very self-critical on top of the thoughts you have.
00:01:53
Speaker
I think what you're speaking to is is the differentiating levels of self-awareness, right, that exist amongst humanity. Many people don't have a level of self-awareness whereby they actually can contemplate on the idea that there might be another possibility or there might be another perspective.
Facing Mental Barriers with Compassion
00:02:13
Speaker
And I think when someone has the awareness at least to consider that, then it's like, oh, well, if there is another possibility,
00:02:22
Speaker
or if there is a potential to me that I can see but I cannot attain, then we start to notice how the mind is holding us back. And then we get frustrated because it's almost like I can see where I want to go, but I can't get there because my head is getting in the way, my mind is getting in the way. And that's where you see this fs this frustration, you know, and it almost compounds. So it's not only that my negative self-talk is negative, but it's also that now I'm angry at it.
00:02:50
Speaker
So now there's also a negative emotion that's being directed at the self-talk. It is simply there because it's designed to protect you. And when we can see it from that perspective and recognize its role in our survival, we can start to meet it with more compassion rather than criticism.
00:03:07
Speaker
That was going to be my next question. How to deal with that frenemy. Learning how to deal with it is
Curiosity in Self-Talk: Path to Self-Understanding
00:03:14
Speaker
like with anything. It it starts with understanding, right? And understanding starts with curiosity.
00:03:20
Speaker
Instead of making an assumption or a judgment immediately about yourself or your thoughts, Just pause and become curious. Why is it here?
00:03:31
Speaker
Is it true? Is it real? Where did it come from? Why is it showing up now? What's it trying to tell me? And when we start to look at ourselves through the lens of curiosity, there is a spaciousness that starts to be created, right? We we get to see ourselves in a different light. And from that space, we can say, ah, I understand.
00:03:51
Speaker
And then in the understanding, we make a choice, right? Then we say, okay, I understand you're trying to protect me. And also, I know that I am safe. So I'm going to hold your hand and we're going to do it together.
00:04:03
Speaker
And it's really this recognition of I have a fear and I also realize that I'm okay. The regulation that happens around that is one of the most important parts of teaching that part of your brain that, hey, it's not so scary. We're okay. We can move through it.
Internal vs External Safety: Finding True Security
00:04:19
Speaker
I love what you said about safety there because that's one of the most important things we need to function as human beings. And the safety comes from within, right?
00:04:31
Speaker
Often we will be looking for safety outside of us. We're missing this connection to our own selves so we don't feel safe. We don't feel secure. Because it's the connection with be would be damaged or it would have never been there to begin with.
00:04:49
Speaker
Without that safety, you're always just on the outside looking for things to fill it up for you. Because it's like an empty cup, right? When the inside is empty...
00:05:01
Speaker
The outside is the solution. In the reality, it's the opposite. But you have to get there. So that's like that journey. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, I think, as you said, for many people, they don't know what safety means.
00:05:16
Speaker
Internal safety. They have not experienced that.
Faulty Neuroception and Safety Recognition Issues
00:05:19
Speaker
Sometimes it can be really challenging, especially people that have complex trauma or have a long history of trauma. When they see things online about safety, safety in the body, you know, it feels sometimes confronting for them because it's something that is so unfamiliar that once again, it can lead to really damaging self-talk of what's wrong with me.
00:05:44
Speaker
Why don't I know what this feels like? Why don't I understand this? Or if they're not aware, if we bring it back to your point earlier, safety to them is anxiety.
00:05:55
Speaker
That's just their baseline. They don't even realize that there is something else to look for. When you don't feel safety, you feel safe. And I'm for people because they can't say quoting.
00:06:06
Speaker
They feel safe in situations that trigger them in some way that bring anxiety, anxiety, So that's safety, right? Because that's recognized. That's what you know because you don't have that connection to yourself. So then when you're in a situation that is normal, that is actually safe, you actually feel triggered.
00:06:29
Speaker
You're like, I don't feel comfortable because this is a new sensation. I don't know how to react.
Fear of Stillness and Its Roots in Past Experiences
00:06:35
Speaker
So we call this faulty neuroception. For those listening, neuroception is our basically the way that we scan our environment for safety.
00:06:43
Speaker
And if we grew up in a home or a household or an environment where our quote unquote safety was chaos, then we develop what we call faulty neuroception. So we then find safety in in chaos or safety in toxicity or safety in discomfort and unsafety in stability or unsafety in stillness, right? it It feels unfamiliar, as you said, and the brain does not like things that is unfamiliar and likes to know who we are in a familiar space, even if that familiar space is not ultimately good for us.
00:07:22
Speaker
I've been on that journey myself. When you said stillness, that was one of the things that was almost impossible to be still because then there is discomfort. Because actually, when you're thinking about it, to be still, you need to be so comfortable with your own presence.
00:07:40
Speaker
At that moment, not in the past, not in the future, that particular moment, and with what's going on in your head as thoughts, right? Because there will be thoughts. All these things combined could be so overwhelming and so uncomfortable, and that's something I talk about quite a lot. Because if you
Busyness, Identity, and the Fear of Disconnection
00:08:00
Speaker
have a lot of, well, the frenemy popping up or...
00:08:04
Speaker
Or a lot of, oh no, but you know I don't feel this, I don't feel that, or I feel all these emotions that are very unpleasant and I'm like shrinking myself in this moment.
00:08:15
Speaker
That can be so scary. It's that, can I be with myself? And if I haven't learned how to be with myself, if I haven't learned how to regulate my emotions or even be okay with my emotions, understand that emotions aren't weak or they aren't bad or they aren't wrong. They simply are, right? A lot of people fear feelings.
00:08:36
Speaker
ah because we're conditioned to see them in one way or another. Outside of that, you know sometimes people fear stillness because stillness was something that happened before conflict happened. So there is the mind registering and remembering oh, hang on a minute, stillness isn't actually safe because something bad always happens straight after. So there can be that recollection that happens in the brain.
00:08:59
Speaker
For other people, it can be very much tied to your identity. So for example, some people grow up in in a way whereby their I am statements are very much around being hyper-independent. high achievers, right? Constantly doing, constantly being busy in a bid to showcase our value and our worth. And so stillness is then associated with laziness and it's associated with weakness and it's associated with a lack of worth and a lack of value.
00:09:26
Speaker
And therefore, if we're looping all the way back to the start, a fear of disconnection, a fear of being rejected, a fear of getting in trouble, right? So, so many people fear being still for so many different reasons, but it's such a common one. I think so many people relate to that. I mean, I also relate to that. It's something that I've struggled with most of my life of how do i be okay with white space,
Entrepreneurship Challenges: Identity, Productivity, and White Space
00:09:50
Speaker
you know? and And for me, it's very much tied to a high achieving identity.
00:09:55
Speaker
It's hard to break out of that identity because of the familiarity that we have with it and the way that we've learned that this is who I need to be in order to be attached. This is who I need to be in order to be loved. And so for me to put that down, who am I without that?
00:10:11
Speaker
It's ah very interesting sometimes if you're doing your own thing, let's say, you know, if you're creating things, if you're not doing, you know, a typical job, for example, talk about like success, entrepreneurship, there's this whole step system, right? So if you're not seeing progress, you might think that you're stalling. You sometimes might question your worth. You might...
00:10:35
Speaker
Say, well, if there's no progress, then again, there's this comparison with other people or with the way you see yourself, you should be at that point in time.
00:10:45
Speaker
And because again, that white space comes up there as well, because you might have moments where you're just not doing things. Or if you're doing things, you might not be getting feedback. So it might feel like a white space for you for that moment when you're trying to create something.
00:11:01
Speaker
Which is why I find it quite interesting because that journey of a creator or an entrepreneur, it's so faceted and it's so multicolored because there are all these elements and sometimes you might be thinking just a feedback or result. And actually there are all these other elements that are equally as important, but maybe not put on that pedestal as much.
00:11:24
Speaker
The white space in entrepreneurship is hard. It's so hard. It's so hard, you know, because, yeah, we we want things to feel like they're moving forward. You know, we've put our money on the line. We've put our face on the line. We've put our product on the line. You know, it's very hard in solopreneurship or if you're the face of your business to not have your self-worth enmeshed in your business and to not feel like, oh, nothing's happening, therefore to Nothing's happening.
Consistency in Progress and Trusting the Process
00:11:50
Speaker
Therefore, I failed. Therefore, I'm not good enough. Therefore, I'm not likeable, whatever it is. And so that white space, there is so many of those negative critical thoughts that come in because our mind is you know trying so hard to think, why? Why is nothing happening? Why has no one bought this? Why is no one liking my post? why is you know all and And we start to come back to those old beliefs of, well, it's because I'm not good enough. It's because I'm too much. It's because I said it wrong. It's because this, it's because that, it's because I'm not doing it like her or I'm not saying it like him or whatever. Something that I believe is not spoken about enough is is definitely the self-development journey that one embarks on when they decide to become an entrepreneur.
00:12:34
Speaker
I think it's not something that people realize that they're signing up for when they start Yeah, because there's so much you discover about yourself. So much. If you start from a place where you might not be the most confident person actually on the positive side to it, you discover that actually you're capable of so much. Also, you discover because you're actually living it that imposter syndrome is something everyone has.
00:13:01
Speaker
And actually, you do things through that with that in there always, but you can. Since I started the podcast, for example, when I started, i was like, oh, no, editing is so hard and it felt so big and, I don't know, scary. And I'm like, I'll just do solo episodes where I'll just speak and I'm not going to do any editing. yeah And then it kind of just changed and like editing is one of my favorite things now.
00:13:30
Speaker
Well, you've gotten used to it. Your brain's gone, oh, I know who I am here now. I can do this now. This is okay. You overcame that hurdle and you stayed with it, which is, I think, one of the most important parts of entrepreneurship is this ability to really practice our resiliency muscle. It's like You could very easily have said, you know what?
00:13:49
Speaker
I don't want to do the podcast. Editing is too hard. It's never going to sound good. I can't do this. I'm not a tech person. You know, whatever. There could have been one million reasons as to why you could have stopped.
00:14:01
Speaker
And I think that's what differentiates the type of person that enters into entrepreneurship and continues to to move through it versus someone who doesn't like it, doesn't want to do it. Because there is definitely...
00:14:15
Speaker
the need for resiliency and the need to be able to keep going. And as you've said, now editing is one of your favorite parts, right? Because you've you've overcome that hurdle and you've learned how to develop a skill. and You've learned a new skill, which is amazing.
00:14:30
Speaker
Also on another level, something specifically with that for myself was the realization that you can, you know, not just for editing, you can actually take a step and then take another step and then take another step. And it doesn't have to be something that's like going 100 miles an hour because there are some people who will do it like that and that's their way.
00:14:53
Speaker
But also it doesn't need to be that if it's not your way. you know Be curious, but also be gentle with yourself. It's about taking the step and then the next step and then the next step.
00:15:05
Speaker
It's about consistency. I feel like most things in life are about consistency. Good self-talk, you know like changing your narrative. taking one step at a time.
00:15:16
Speaker
Everything is about consistency. Yeah, right definitely. And I think people often think that consistency means doing the same amount of things every day consistently. That's not true.
00:15:28
Speaker
Consistency is just being consistent towards a goal, whether that be my capacity today is to do 10% towards my goal. And then tomorrow my capacity is 60%. And then I wake up the next day and it's 90. And then it's down to five.
00:15:42
Speaker
It's like, can i utilize the capacity that I have each day towards my goal? That is consistency.
Parts Work in Understanding Emotions and Treating Depression
00:15:50
Speaker
And I think especially for women who have a cycle, honoring the cyclical nature of ourselves is really, really important to not push when we need to rest, to not try to give 100 when we can only give 10, but to remain consistent within our capacity, give ourselves the permission to move in that way. Because even five minutes is five minutes. It's five minutes towards your goal. Maybe tomorrow it's two hours.
00:16:17
Speaker
But today, if you can do five minutes and you know you've got five minutes, then instead of saying, oh, it's only five minutes, I'm not going to do it, do the five minutes. Because it's still five minutes. It's still moving you forward in some way. When you're actively doing it, you're working on the self-judgment as well because you might be judging yourself for that five minutes, right?
00:16:36
Speaker
You might be saying, but it's only five minutes. I should be doing more. Simultaneously, when you start practicing it, you're like, no, but it's fine. So you're removing the self-judgment there as well.
00:16:48
Speaker
How do you find your purpose? You need to create that stillness and that space and that quiet first. And I like what you said about, you know, just doing one step at a time. And, and you know, when I used to work clinically, i used to work in drug and alcohol rehabilitation, you know, the 12 steps and AA and and all of that. We always have this saying of just like one day at a time.
00:17:07
Speaker
And it's a really important phrase in the space of addiction and recovery because It can feel so hard for an addict to imagine a life without their substance, without their vice. And that journey is is so challenging for somebody. And we always remind them in the beginning, it's just, you know, one day at a time, just for today, just for today. I'm going to try this just for today.
00:17:29
Speaker
Tomorrow, I'm not going to think about tomorrow. And then tomorrow when I wake up, it's it's just just for today. That's really powerful. It's really helpful. it just It stops our mind from seeing, you know, whenever there's a big goal.
00:17:41
Speaker
So this could be your addiction journey. It could be this idea of who am I as is someone who is in recovery. I can't imagine that version of me. it could be in business. You know, you might have a goal of I want to help X amount of people or whatever it is. I want to have this type of impact. And when you think about the big picture, it seems so big and it seems so far away.
00:18:03
Speaker
And in that bigness and and the far awayness of it, our mind starts to panic and we think, well, how am I going to do that? It feels impossible.
00:18:14
Speaker
And so that's when I think it's really important to be able to bring it down to like just for today. Let me just focus just for today on one thing. that takes me towards that. and And over time, the accumulation of those days brings us closer to the end goal, you know?
00:18:31
Speaker
Sometimes you don't see things happening because it's one step at a time and then suddenly... There is a result, but sometimes people, like you said, they give up before that because, oh no, I'm not seeing progress or I'm not seeing enough progress. But actually that one step is preparing things for you. We as human beings, because, I mean, I guess maybe because we live in a material world, we want to see results.
00:18:59
Speaker
we We need things to happen. And when they don't, we're like, I'm working for nothing. I'm doing things for nothing, whether it's work, whether it's self-progress. I'm not saying this.
00:19:10
Speaker
You know, I did my meditation three days in a row and I'm not changed yet. We are very impatient and we're becoming more impatient because of our devices. You know, it's it's a huge problem is that... our need for quick dopamine is increasingly becoming a problem. And our attention span is so, so, so, so small now. We're the most impatient we've ever been and we expect things to happen like that.
00:19:35
Speaker
And they don't happen like that. And there's also like the unseen, you know, there's the ripple effect of your impact. There's the people that are talking about you in rooms that you don't know. There is someone who's referring you to her friend at a coffee shop tomorrow morning. There is someone who's listening to your podcast by chance randomly because they've stumbled upon, you know, there's, we don't know what's happening and outside of what we can control outside of what we can see. It's so important to have a level of trust in the ripple effect of the energy that you create in the world.
00:20:11
Speaker
And to know that it reaches places that you have no idea where it's going. Let's say I've had a month where it just financially hasn't gone as I'd hoped. You know, what maybe I had it forecasted and I was like, oh,
00:20:25
Speaker
This feels a little bit disappointing. It feels a bit disappointing. I'm nearing the end of the month. It's the 28th of the month and it's just not where I thought it would be. And so then I go to sleep on the 30th night and I wake up on the 31st morning and I have a message from a client six months ago that's now back in wherever. And she said, oh my God, I've been meaning to reach out to you. I can't wait to start therapy again. Can I book in for six sessions? I'll pay up front. I cannot tell you the number of times that this has happened in my life. You're like, I feel like I'm going to give up.
00:20:58
Speaker
I feel like I'm going to give up. And then just at that point, there is someone that remembers you, someone that reaches out to you, someone that recommends you, someone that shares your name somewhere that leads to something. There's an opportunity that comes through. there There's something, there's always something that happens. And It's always been this reminder for me that it's so important to trust in the process, like to to hold your faith high and to keep your energy as focused as possible because that creates a ripple effect by just being in that type of state.
00:21:31
Speaker
I love that. I mean, we don't think about a ripple effect, right? Because actually, as human beings, are quite self-centered. Incredibly self-centered. And in this instance, it has a negative effect on this because actually, like you said, the ripple effect does happen. You're always talking about people who leave a good impression on you to your friends or you're talking about people you're inspired by. You're talking about, oh my gosh, I saw this, I don't know, comment that I really like. You send it to a friend, you share it. I often recommend to my students and clients to to meditate and see it. Like see your own ripple effect as part of your work and let that be your why. You know, when I used to work in addiction, for example, sometimes it would be really hard. You know, there are moments where you may want to give up, but if you can connect to the ripple effect of your impact,
00:22:24
Speaker
not from a selfish place, but from a selfless place, right? So it's when I show up authentically doing the work that I believe I'm put here to do, the work that is in my heart, when I do that authentically and I get to witness that I help somebody have better communication with their partner, for example, if that's the area you work in, or I help somebody have a better relationship to their child or I help somebody heal their own self-confidence or I help, you know, in my work, I help a fellow therapist or coach or a wellness practitioner to actually find the confidence to do their business, right?
00:23:01
Speaker
When I do that, then what? So then if it's if you're helping someone in relationship, you can visualize their relationship. You can visualize what then happens within the relationship. You can visualize how that then impacts the partner, how that then impacts the children, the home, how the children get to grow up, what the children learn, how that then impacts their friends and their friends' relationships when they witness the relationship. that you know like There is so much that comes from one seed. And when we can see that, it's like, wow, this is what I'm working for, actually. I'm not working for this one moment. I'm working for the bigger effect because if I'm here to help people, I'm here to make humanity a a better place, right? And so my vision is actually around like, how do I actually hold on to that bigger vision as well?
00:23:49
Speaker
Talking about that, there's so many different ways to visualize things. It can get a bit overwhelming, right? Imagine at nighttime, you go to and say, okay, so what do I start visualizing now? So people, when they're starting things,
00:24:02
Speaker
There's always that level of overwhelm in whatever they do. There's just overwhelm, whether it's journaling, visualizing, all these amazing things that I need to do. But where do I start?
00:24:13
Speaker
What one thing do I do? Because i can't do everything. Well, you can just start with one client. You know, like if it was you, you could start by visualizing one podcast conversation and then you let your mind expand from there.
00:24:26
Speaker
If you're working with clients, then just imagine the last client that you had. You know you you always start from the thing that is the most the closest to you, the thing that feels the most tangible, and then you go from there. And then what happens? And then what happens? And then what happens? And then you just see you see it all. And then you can bring it back to the present moment. It's the expansion and the contraction, being able to kind of see and visualize from what's tangible to what's out there, what the ripple effect is, and then bringing it back so that what is tangible, if we bring it back to the word purpose, it feels more purposeful. It feels more meaningful because I fully understand and I'm invested in the bigger effect that this has. I know and trust that there is something more and bigger from this. We say also start with the tangible because you start with the tangible and you're slowly creating a narrative from a tangible place.
00:25:20
Speaker
It all becomes tangible because you're slowly creating it from that place. It's not like a jump where from something that feels possible, I'm suddenly, you know, a hundred miles away to something that I cannot even imagine for myself. It's that slow narrative expansion.
00:25:38
Speaker
I like that word. Because our minds are so powerful. So powerful. But often, they're full of little frenemies, where when you actually are beacon to the potential of your mind and you're befriended in that kind of way where it works for you rather than against you, it's the most wonderful creative process. Yeah, and it's very empowering. you know I think to not believe that one way is the only way or one thought is the only thought, one emotion is the only emotion, you know that's absolutely not the case. I think when we can really understand that not everything that we think is true, like most things that you think are not true. For some people, that can be overwhelming. It's like, ah you know, you start to ask these deeper philosophical questions of what is the truth? know When you see it as an opportunity, you realize that you can create your truth, you can create your reality, and and your your mind can be your greatest asset, your greatest, you know, ah tool that helps you to create a life that feels truly fulfilling, not one that is necessarily showy or one that is necessarily materialistic, if that's not your thing, but one that is fulfilling. And it's the mind that enables us to do that.
00:26:51
Speaker
How to find that thread? Let's say you're starting from a place where you could be suffering with mild depression. and You might be like, I don't see anything positive in my life. And I don't know how to idge find that connection because everything is kind of bleak.
00:27:06
Speaker
So what would be the step to start? One step at a time. In my work as a therapist, I do a lot of what we call parts work, right? So we help a person to see themselves through the lens of parts, of sub-personalities. So instead of me saying I am depressed or I have depression, i can say there's a part of me that is feeling depressed or there is a part of me that has lost hope or there's a part of me that feels helpless. One of the benefits of being able to see our emotions,
00:27:38
Speaker
our identities, our feelings, our thoughts as parts is that we realize is that it's not all of who we are. And when you said before, how do I find the self? We only find the self through separation, right? Through observation that there are many parts of me. One of those parts is myself.
00:27:57
Speaker
the part that is observing, the part that is depressed. So there's myself and myself is witnessing. There's a part of me that's feeling depressed. And when I can witness that, I get to apply curiosity once again, like with my negative thoughts, right? So I get to ask myself,
00:28:13
Speaker
If this part of me that feels depressed had a voice, what would it say? If I could speak directly to this part of me that feels depressed, what does it need? So the part of me that is asking is myself. And I'm able to then meet that part with compassion. I'm able to understand a lot of the times depression requires connection.
00:28:34
Speaker
A lot of the times depression is the result of suppression. So what have I been suppressing? What am I not saying? Where are my boundaries being crossed, right? There's there's often an an invitation to explore. and in that exploration, it's a lot more tangible to work with rather than me saying, I am depressed.
00:28:52
Speaker
I have depression because then I'm identifying the whole self with the diagnosis. And from that place, it's very difficult.