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Rankin on AI — Most-Played Throwback
42 Plays1 month ago
As the year ends, I return to my most-played episode — a throwback chat with Rankin on AI, creativity, and the power to take charge of what comes next.
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Transcript
Introduction to Rankin's Legacy
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to Connected with Eva. Today I'm speaking with someone who has spent decades capturing authenticity in its rawest form, through a lens.
00:00:12
Speaker
Rankin is a legendary British photographer, publisher and film director, known for shaping cultural moments and pushing boundaries. From co-founding the iconic Dazed and Confused magazine to photographing icons like David Bowie, Kate Moss, even King Charles III, Rankin's work has consistently blurred the lines between art, identity, and truth.
AI's Impact on Authenticity
00:00:39
Speaker
As AI begins to replicate everything from images to voices, we ask, what still makes something human? We had this conversation about AI on our show that I wanted to continue today.
00:00:53
Speaker
As someone who's spent a lifetime capturing authenticity, right, in human form, yeah what was your first emotional reaction when you saw at the very beginning how easily AI could generate an image, a face, and a feeling?
00:01:12
Speaker
I made a documentary about death with a very close, good friend of mine. And we kind of went at this documentary together and confronted our own fears around death, which was really fascinating to do.
00:01:26
Speaker
That journey is very similar to the journey I've gone on with AI.
Rankin's Emotional Journey with AI
00:01:31
Speaker
So from a very personal perspective, it's been quite close to the kind of the different things you go through with death which is generally anger blaming and all that sort of stuff so they're very similar journeys and and I felt when I first saw it I kind of felt compelled to use it because I was like that is so extraordinary
00:01:57
Speaker
you know at the same time it took me quite a while to really balance out my feelings and it eventually I realized why I was so conflicted around it which was that as a photographer it's feels very inauthentic and on multiple levels but as a creative it feels incredibly authentic it so it's this very strange place that find myself which is between love and hate and it and it actually that place is an amazingly creative place that's where great songs get written that's where great novels get written that's where great you know films get made in that weird tension between loving something and hating something so and being angry and being frustrated when I realized that then it kind of
00:02:48
Speaker
it kind of gave me you know pause for thought. I met somebody yesterday who met me, what were we, about halfway through? No, maybe two-thirds the through. And they were like, you've completely changed your perspective. And I'm like, we kind of have to on technology that's so new.
Dangers and Regulation of AI
00:03:04
Speaker
I'm not talking about like, how it's going to ruin people's lives and how it's going to reduce the job market by 30%. I mean, that's something I kind of think if you're not angry about that, then you're you're not really watching or listening.
00:03:17
Speaker
And the carelessness of the way that they've brought this stuff to market, it's just outrageous. And it's really, really dangerous. There's no part of my head that thinks that that's okay at at all in any way, shape or form.
00:03:30
Speaker
But my instinct to survive as a human and my need to be inquisitive about everything and my desire to be at the front of technology, which I think I've always tried to do, and also the kind of extent to which it's going, and well, it has changed everything, means that I feel like I need to embrace it and get past that kind of,
00:03:58
Speaker
critique of it from that perspective like there's no point in bringing that to every conversation that I have about it or everything that I do with it things that I try and make with it and as I think I said to you like once I kind of got through all of the pain of that weird morning thing that was really strange I actually started to kind of go this isn't my fault like I didn't you kill photography I didn't I didn't destroy creativity I put those things to one side and and just try and engage with it in the most positive way i can because I just think so few people seem to be doing that or are open about doing that let's say people are so scared of that they get really anxious and get you know very angry about it and actually just saw a photographer who's
00:04:45
Speaker
kind of somebody I really admired I called Nick Knight he just literally put a post up about it and the comments section in it is just they don't have the knowledge of it that I have and I think that he probably has and that's the thing everything they're talking about it is coming from a place that they don't really seem to understand it just a kind of gut reaction or a kind of knee-jerk reaction to it and I think that that is not the smart approach to it. So ah kind of am now kind of making fun of that because I'm like, you guys are going to get left behind Don't understand this stuff. It's not like digital, you know, analog to digital. It's not like, oh, cameras have been invented. I mean, it's more like, you know, the electricity or the combustion engine or, you know it's big, big, it's like the industrial revolution happening over three or four years.
AI as the New Industrial Revolution
00:05:38
Speaker
when it took 100 years to happen before. So it's an event horizon moment for everything. If you're not understanding or engaging that, then you've got a problem because it's going to consume you. I describe it like it's a tsunami and I'm trying to be a little float that floats through the tsunami and shoots a few flares into the air to say, warning, warning, there's a tsunami because there's tsunami coming and it's only going to get worse. So That's my kind of overall sort thought on it.
00:06:10
Speaker
Currently, I know it will change. But then, you know, on the other hand, it's incredibly creative. So when people go, oh you can't do this on it, I'm like, you can.
00:06:21
Speaker
The thing that shocked me the most is people's lack of knowledge or understanding of it, even the people that some people are using it. So that's kind of where my my brain is with it. But at the same time, like the love bit is like I absolutely love making stuff with it. And i'm I'm writing so much more than I've ever written before. And I'm probably going to start another agency and call it One Studio because it's just me doing 99.9% of the work. I'm doing it on my own. So nine percent of the work i'm doing on my own so I don't need like, you know, it's like having 50 assistants, interns that are like absolutely there for you and experts in everything you want to be experts in and don't sleep. So can you can call on them at four in the morning.
00:07:07
Speaker
You can be making work. I'm a very, I don't sleep more than sort four five hours normally anyway. So I'm like using three or four hours a day, just making shit happen. And I'm more productive now than I think I've ever been.
00:07:22
Speaker
You know, it would have taken me three weeks to get some of the stuff that I did in three hours. I wrote a whole business plan this morning. It's not infallible. It's fallible. Like it's really,
00:07:33
Speaker
They call it hallucination. I use three language models now because I'm like going between them all just checking and making it ask questions and, you know, all those sorts of things.
00:07:43
Speaker
It's at the same time soul destroying. So like I always have to go out and have a walk. And I know today I've been using it all day. I've been writing all day. At the end of the day, I'm going to be like, oh, my God, that was, all you know. It's interesting in that sense as well because I think I'm a very resilient human being. like I don't have a lot of mental health problems. My wife actually just did ah think an analysis of my blood.
00:08:09
Speaker
It's really funny because she's a nutritionist. I got my blood work done by my doctor and then she got it and analysed. She obviously knows how read it all and ask about questions and it's like, Yes, your blood is rei you it means you're a resilient person and you're patient and you're this. Yeah, really, really interesting. So but i get drained by it. And I've always said, look, if I'm getting drained by social media and this stuff, then that's very worrying because if it's addictive in any way, shape or form, I'm not really that person. So
00:08:39
Speaker
people are like that, you know, and I'm hearing Horace going to people using it for marital advice and for getting therapy.
00:08:50
Speaker
I just think it's kind of like not, not the smart way to use it. But anyway, it's here to stay and the genie's out of the bottle and people that are going, no, no, let's put a stop. I'm like, guys, like,
00:09:01
Speaker
The horse has not only bolted it, it's over the hill. It's met some other horses. They're all having a horse party and we're going to go and have to live with the horses who probably will take over.
00:09:12
Speaker
Well, the thing is it happened so quickly. All these companies are getting a lot of funding. They're getting insane evaluations. There's actually also an AI mental health startup, which is...
00:09:25
Speaker
I'm going to be a therapist as well. So the speed of everything is incredible. and I don't think and anything before has come so fast and changed so fast and grown so fast.
00:09:39
Speaker
No, my friend has been showing me stuff since the until for a while and it was always really awful. And it was actually Damien Hirst that got me to got me into something called Wonder. I started using it just for fun, really.
00:09:52
Speaker
And I was using it going, God, this is really near to being starting to be interesting. So I was kind of interested in it. probably before everyone else but then another friend of mine really amazing photographer that I really love called Philip he was doing some stuff on it that I was like wow this is really really good so i just emailed him I did an interview with him back of work and I was talking about it and then I said oh you know can you just tell me how you're doing it so I can i get a little bit of an in and then he was using discord at the time in which is I mean I don't ever use discord anymore but
00:10:29
Speaker
it was um It was like, wow, this is, and I did really good stuff really quickly on it. And I was like, shit, that's fucking nuts, man. This is really, really, really much better than what I was doing on Wanda.
00:10:43
Speaker
It's getting better. and I mean, and also I'm jumping around systems so I'm sure that most people that kind of any good at this stuff are doing the same
AI's Role in Creativity and Authorship
00:10:52
Speaker
thing as me. And another one comes along that's even better at something. And even like within three days, you know, you go from a system that can only do low-res images, but they're really realistic. And then suddenly three days later, they don't even tell you that you can do high-res images. And you have to talk to them in their own certain way of like, it's a bit like talking to people because you have to like go, right, what's this one being trained?
00:11:16
Speaker
to talk like you know in chapter two you can very much be trained to be sycophantic and gemini's kind of in between then claude isn't sycophantic really it's quite kind direct and right to the point so each of them you have to kind of work out the way in like and it can take sometimes it can take like weeks to find a way in and then sometimes it can be like an hour the music one was making things that were pretty good within a day and i was like this is nuts man I'm deep into it and I'm not going, I'm not slowing down and i'm not really thinking of turning around and kind of making a stand. That moment's being lost and the governance isn't going to come in. And I describe it a little bit like trying to put speed bumps in the runway. He froze, just there's no point. You it's counterintuitive now to do that. So really it's more important to kind of work out how to deal with
00:12:10
Speaker
what you've got and for me as a photographer the interesting thing that's happening really is that I'm starting to use a lot of my own work in it as a way of either bringing it to life with moving image or where I'm trying to diffusion between my work or where I'm taking a picture and I'm giving it very specific design ideas. I keep saying to my retouching, the guys at retouching will like, get the fuck out of Dodge guys, like you need to retrain immediately. They're going, no, no, it's not going to,
00:12:42
Speaker
I'm like, yes, yes, it is. I'm really enjoying putting my own work into it because the authorship seems, feels very different when you put your own work into it. and People are like, don't you worry about it training. I'm like, no, it's already trained on me. What are you talking about? I can make you make a picture like me very, very easily.
00:13:01
Speaker
Yeah, well, there's this whole thing, you know, people are afraid of their data being out there, and it's already out there. The data's gone. What are they
Moral Implications and Responsibility in AI
00:13:11
Speaker
called? You know, those and these little sort of her terms and conditions things that we all just...
00:13:17
Speaker
that was the day and and they were they were preparing for this moment, you know, so, and it's kind of funny, like, that you know, like all these companies that like deemed to be kind of like fairly morally kind you know, positive like Google and stuff, they're not, it's a completely morally corrupt, the whole the whole thing is just morally corrupt on so many levels. So I'm not going to take the blame for this. When you start getting angry with people because they're using it, it's like, no, i'm the I'm the last person in the you should be shouting at.
00:13:50
Speaker
Also, people are going, oh, it's so bad for the environment. I'm like, Well, yeah, it probably is bad for the bar environment, but everything's bad for the environment. Governments have to take responsibility for that stuff. We vote them in for a specific reason, and it's like, it doesn't seem like any of them are doing that on a kind of global scale anyway.
00:14:08
Speaker
I'm just a little bit confused about why it becomes individual responsibility. It's like, yeah, of course, everything should be better. We should be doing things in a better way. Am I going to lose my job? Possibly. i mean, I don't think I'll necessarily lose my job, but There's this there's the threat of that that hangs over, it and I'd say, 90% of the population now. So what are you going to do? like what Are you going to go and demonstrate? i mean, yeah, like I'm up for demonstrating, but it doesn't seem to make much difference to these people. They don't seem to have a moral compass or any morality at all. It's kind of bizarre to me, like that stuff.
00:14:48
Speaker
Well, regulations is a big thing because it doesn't exist. it It feels like it's not a priority for the governments to create regulations. And is it even too late because the databases are there already?
00:15:02
Speaker
So, you know, your image, your data is there. tight Like I met this amazing woman from the Guardian who was a technology writer, but she was also kind of like added up their responsibility arm. And she was like, it's just not going to happen for three to five years. And by then it's already too late. Nevermind three to five years. So i don't know. I mean, it's all stuff that I'd be very interested to debate. And but this is the other thing.
00:15:27
Speaker
e i'd Like they don't ever, ever, ever want to debate it. No one wants to debate this stuff. Right. Not one person wants to talk about it. i mean, I'm quite an outlier in the fact that I'm talking about it.
00:15:40
Speaker
and and i was very surprised when Nick talked about it the other day because I was like, but that's a big step. And there's a guy called Richard Osman who started talking about it as well. And I think you have to have people like us discussing this stuff because no one else seems to. And it's like, I'm very surprised and shocked that the ad industry is not talking about it, but much more directly because they're literally going to be decimated by this stuff, decimated by it.
00:16:08
Speaker
You know, and some people, like when I, when I say that to them, they go good. And I'm like, well, It's not good for all those you know young writers and designers who start their careers and learn how to be writers by writing shit copy or designing bad ads. or you know that That mentorship is going to be gone. and Who are they going to get mentored by now?
00:16:35
Speaker
It feels like a very dangerous moment in that space as well. So i just refer back to, well, what is the individual supposed to do? I think we're looking at it through the lens of the past where maybe the individual could have an impact.
00:16:50
Speaker
on it but currently I don't don't see that how any individual can have an impact on it I mean I'm trying to debate it with people and people literally go la la la and close their ears and it's like the three monkeys all doing the same thing at the same time like you see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil all at the same moment that's where my head's at with it Well, like you say, it's here to stay. And in the creative industry, from what I know, it's a lot of agencies, etc., who don't want to discuss it because they're, no, no, no, we don't want to have any part of this.
00:17:27
Speaker
So we're not going to get associated with this. But then it's here to stay. So um if you refuse to acknowledge it's here, It's not like it's going to go away. And that's that's the thing that people are refusing to understand, I think.
00:17:40
Speaker
It's not going to go away. So the rejection of it is not a solution. No, I mean, individual rejections never worked. Technology and the advancement of technology always
Unstoppable Technological Advancement
00:17:52
Speaker
wins. There's not one instance in our history where it hasn't won.
00:17:56
Speaker
Again, like I just point the finger and go, well, you know, what you want to do with it? Because no, I don't hear anyone coming up with any good ideas around it. So kind of find myself in this very weird place where,
00:18:09
Speaker
I really get a buzz out of making stuff with it and talking about it and thinking about it and and being able to consider it as a kind of new thing because when I say you have to look at it through a new lens, that's probably the beginning of the answers to how we deal with it.
00:18:27
Speaker
If you continue to look at it through the historical perspective, it just doesn't necessarily make any sense because it's never been here before. We've never had to do, this isn't a slow thing that we've got used to. This is like they dropped it on us now we're going, oh, do we do this by demonstrating? Do we do this by saying no? do we do you know It's like, no, you've got to find a whole new way to make it make sense.
00:18:54
Speaker
And the weirdest thing is, is that most of the people that have coded it into life, they don't even know how to control it so it's even kind of more bizarre on that level although it's not something i'm going to talk about in detail because buts i don't know enough about it to be able to say well i don't i don't know what will happen there but people that are friends of my girl oh there's you know there's two extremes basically like it could be really really terrible or it could optimistically kind of work out as human beings tend to work stuff out.
00:19:25
Speaker
I'm really funny about it because it's almost like split a split personality. I'm Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde on it because I'm just like, wow, this is great. the same time, just going, woe is mankind. It's also...
00:19:41
Speaker
you know going to do good stuff it's going to help medicine it's going to be really incredible for communication there's so many things that are good about it as well and for creativity it's just going to create a lot of really average creative work and i don't mean just for our industry i mean every category of creativity it's almost like it's it's um been leveled we're all at the same essentially the same level but But I'm already proving with the work that I'm doing that I'm not on the same level because I'm authoring work that I know other people couldn't have authored.
00:20:14
Speaker
You know, if you look at something I did or six months ago, can feel dated because it's moving that fast. But at the same time, it's an artifact of that moment in time and my particular perspective on it.
00:20:28
Speaker
And I think that what I'm kind of happy with is that, well, at least I had a fucking perspective on it. At least I was looking for a way of understanding it and I was trying to explain it to myself and therefore to other people.
00:20:43
Speaker
And that's what I just continue to do. So and whilst also using it for work, I'm still trying to ah investigate or and interrogate it and drill down into it to work out what it means, not even just to me, but on an existential level to everything.
The New Era of Creativity
00:21:04
Speaker
Like, you know, what does it mean? If everybody can create a Renaissance painting, what does that mean?
00:21:10
Speaker
Like, really, what does that mean? Because, you know, the whole... thing about social media is it's really been a repositioning of entertainment from the corporations to the individual and that kind of idea of how we keep people's attention has kind of shifted to every individual everyone's their own little tv screen now with their own little you know news program whether it's truthful or not it doesn't really matter because it keeps people entertained and I think what's really fascinating about that is you've got you know we used to creatives group of people who were creatives and what it does for them is it and immediately makes everything possible so you know I can be a sculptor of my work
00:21:56
Speaker
today very easily I can take photogrammetry stuff that would have taken me two years to make a bronze sculpture I can do it in like probably 30 seconds and I can then print it and I probably can get it 3D printed so that kind of leveling is going to make people like me have access to amazing things but it's also going to mean that other people who don't have that knowledge are going to be able to do the same sort of thing I still think that the real people that are really creative will rise to the top because they'll just find ways of using this new box of tools in a way which is interesting to the audience yes the creators are going to become more creative but
00:22:44
Speaker
essentially the performative nature of that means that they're probably just going to double down on the stuff that they're performative about already and i don't think you know most people that are interested in true creativity are really interested in youtube videos about how to do makeup and you know how to clean car so i'm kind of fascinated about that as well because it is a kind of idea of like yeah you will you can with this technology create something absolutely extraordinary very very quickly but what you're going to do with that is not as compelling ah kind of thought if you want to kind of like communicate ideals of reflecting society or understanding the kind of the nature of
00:23:33
Speaker
the human condition in this moment. I'm trying to do that. I'm trying to work out what is my human condition in this moment and how is it going to impact and other people's human condition.
00:23:45
Speaker
Whereas I think most people are going to go, oh, look, I can make myself Superman or look, I can generate like a ah kind of Marvel comic version of myself, which is going to be entertaining.
00:23:56
Speaker
But that's about it. And of course, you know, it's going to make it easier to write a press release or it's going to make it easier to design a, like I did a PDF this morning on it, which I've never done before. That's now something I can at least do a draft version of like super quickly that I just pass over to a designer that they don't necessarily copy.
00:24:15
Speaker
And then I'm sure there'll be a design version of that soon as well. So yes, the ephemeral stuff around creativity is going to be easier. But are people going to use it in deep and meaningful ways?
00:24:28
Speaker
Well, if you look at social media, they've never done that. They haven't done that. and And actually, that's one of the reasons that things like podcasts have become such a big thing. It's because it needs a balance. People need to be able to have those intellectual conversations about the really important things in life.
00:24:46
Speaker
And when you're losing terrestrial TV or even things like Netflix, when you're losing the kind of depth within that for just like entertainment, it's not trust, you know, news and saying it's not something that you can necessarily trust. It's also completely linear and and completely um singular it's not plural you want people to be plural you want people to have two views you want them to see both sides of an argument and I think that's why things like your podcast and other people doing these types of things they're looking for that they're looking for debate and discussion around this stuff because they're starving from it they're getting none of it so that's kind of
00:25:29
Speaker
fascinating in itself so you know maybe there is another place where this technology is going to allow I don't know I don't know what it will be I mean it's definitely this is the other thing that I really believe it's like mobile phones they're near their cell by day that's not far from being over and Having ah an AI agent, mean, ChatGPT released one the other day and it came up once and it didn't come up again me.
Future of Personal Technology with AI
00:25:55
Speaker
And I tried it out and it was just being exactly the same thing that ChatGPT normally does. You know, if you've got a mobile device whatever it is handset that's completely uh generative around working with generative models that's actually communicating in a completely different way people go no mobile phones are here to stay i'm like i don't think so i think things are going to change i mean it might be might not be as quick as what's happening with generative ai but there's no way it's going to stay the same like wow why would it you know yes we still got sms from the 90s but nobody uses that
00:26:32
Speaker
I actually used it for some the other day while was using audio because I love audio. But they're going, why aren't you using that on WhatsApp? And I'm like, we've got it on messages now as well. So what so what's the difference? It's like, what do you trust more, WhatsApp or I don't trust anything that Mark was a preferred person in the world?
00:26:48
Speaker
You know, and then you've got him being really punchy with stuff, kind of going, we're going to destroy advertising industry. Wow, you're and actually admitting out loud that you're going to destroy an industry that employs millions of people with your AI like that is punchy man and it's like pre-20 2024 that would he wouldn't have said that And it's like now these guys are coming out of the woodwork and being really kind of like, you know, quite aggressive and arrogant about how they're, they're what they're doing you is going to save the world. And like, I think it's going to destroy a lot of things before it saves world. So we're right in the middle of it. But my whole thing is that I'm just trying to understand it as much I can, both practically and existentially, because I think both are going to have very important impacts on all on all of us.
00:27:42
Speaker
Well, the thing with us human beings, we're quite adaptable creatures, and I don't think we give ourselves that credit, because if something like this happens, we're either terrified by it, we ignore it, etc., etc., but actually, and history shows this, humans are extremely adaptable.
00:28:05
Speaker
And when things happen, when circumstances are forced upon you, you adapt. And that's been throughout history. So I feel like this is what's going to have to happen with this.
00:28:18
Speaker
We'll have to adapt. Without a doubt.
Adaptation to Technological Change
00:28:21
Speaker
maybe it's just so big people can't get their heads around it and my blood test didn't tell me that i I'm not scared of change I've never been scared of change I've kind of embraced it and you know like I don't really hold on to things like a lot of people do but I'm not that fearless about it, but I'm not like sitting, it's not sitting there on my shoulder constantly worrying me.
00:28:42
Speaker
I think that maybe that maybe is the reason. But again, i just keep going, but please, please, please, if you are, you do need to understand this stuff. Like there's so many people I show it to you and they go,
00:28:55
Speaker
yeah, I've been meaning to look at it. And I'm like, you've been meaning to look at it. Okay. ah Okay. Like, I can't shout from the rooftops more. You need to do more than just be meaningfully thinking about using it because that is not enough. You need to be in the weeds, like trying to work out how to make it work for what you want to make it work for.
00:29:19
Speaker
So to my friend, a musician, and he was like, oh, can you make it do this? And I was like, yeah. And then like I just hummed a song into Suno and said, create string quartet from this song and sent it to And she said, oh, that's not bad.
00:29:33
Speaker
I could write that down as a piece of music. And I'm like, I just hummed to it. I hummed to it. That's bonkers, guys.
00:29:44
Speaker
I don't know. Maybe maybe um my eyes are very wide more wide open than... Possibly they should be, but I think the blinkers are off and I think I recommend that anybody who's listening to this or has any kind of idea about what maybe they should start doing, unblinker yourself because any blinkers on it is is the really the wrong way to look at it because...
00:30:06
Speaker
Any kind of putting into boxes or contextualizing it does not work. You can't do that. It's beyond that. It's beyond that. because it's also And this is the other thing that's super interesting. It's God complex stuff on lots of levels. Like I remember the first three I had, which is probably about nine to 12 months into using it.
00:30:24
Speaker
And I dreamt I could generate something in real life. And I was like, shit, this is God complex. You know, because it's limitless. And you're like, wow, I'm in that movie, limitless. I can do anything. I can ah but but but but but i take the pill and suddenly um my synapses are all going. And and at the same time, it's one of those things because of the nature of the communication between, especially the learn the language model, it makes you feel like you're speaking to a deity, like you're you're talking to a priest or you've got a direct contact.
00:30:58
Speaker
And the other thing that's really mad is if you've got an an immediate bias, especially with Chachi PT, it just doubles down on your bias. It tells you that you're absolutely right on what you're supposed to be, maybe thinking critically about as opposed to like going, oh, yeah, I'm absolutely right.
00:31:18
Speaker
this is where it could get like super, super dangerous. People are already in echo chambers within their friendships. And it's like to have your own personal echo chamber with giving you a God complex, you know, making you the solid superstar in your own,
00:31:35
Speaker
movie about yourself which you'll probably be able to make and then put it out and that's really close to probably happening and that's again probably going to be the next generative sort version of what creators are on social media people are going to be going well I can't act and I can't sing but I can fucking AI that shit and put it out into the world that's where I'm kind of going well it could go down a few of these million roads yet the most important road it could go down is destroying the human condition currently and we've already broken the social contract the social contract broken it's it's it's no longer there because of social media so you know things are never going to be the same again and nothing's normal
00:32:17
Speaker
That's why I think, again, people want a little kind of sense of like, can I just go back?
Maintaining Authenticity in AI Era
00:32:22
Speaker
If I could go back to the 90s, maybe 99 and press a pause button, would 100% do it because it was good. You know, there's optimism and positivity right there. Things seem to be getting better. And then since then, it's just kind of seems to have all gone downhill.
00:32:38
Speaker
There's a lot more of everything. There is a lot more things being produced. But also I was thinking the more things are produced and especially with AI, the more inauthentic things are being produced.
00:32:54
Speaker
yeah and The more people will crave authenticity. Yeah, they will, but we're kind of in a post-truth society, yeah it's really hard to even know what is authentic and what isn't. I've been leaning into authenticity my whole career, and I can use this stuff and make it look authentic.
00:33:11
Speaker
If I can do that now, in three, six months, nine months, 12 months, a year, two years, other people are going be able to do that very easily because I can do it.
00:33:22
Speaker
like I know I can make images look super realistic. I've got that skill set because I've been doing it 35 years, but we're in a fake society currently because people are just lying. So I think that that this is this is just going to compound and accelerate it and and like really, really expand it. so So yes, I think people will seek out authenticity.
00:33:47
Speaker
probably one on one experience or one you know live experience and i think that's the place if i was a creative and i you know i definitely am working on experiential stuff myself because i know that that is going to be a space where it's going to be profitable and going to be sustainable actually not even profitable sustainable is that is the only thing you can really hope for That is something that I totally agree with.
00:34:12
Speaker
But at the same time, you know, I'm um'm working with a guy in a different country who who can bring my photographs to life and he's like, I can make it look exactly like and you were on set and I can have behind the scenes guy, make it look like you're shooting and I can do this and I can do this. And I'm like,
00:34:31
Speaker
great i mean it's kind of amazing but at the same time it's kind of not okay but i don't ever want to like take it for granted it's so extraordinary and i think that's also that's unfortunately another human condition it's like they did it with photography it kind of disempowered photography you know i'm i'm a lucky photographer that i've still got that ability to make imagery that's powerful and empowered But, you know, by making it, democratizing it, you literally made anybody think that they could take a great photo, which they can take a great photo.
00:35:06
Speaker
But I have to make a great photo every time I take a picture. So I'm not taking pictures, I'm making them. and this is the thing, it's like, oh yeah, I can do that. I can do that. I can do that.
00:35:17
Speaker
That just devalues what the great stuff can be. Photography is, in a way, sort of coming coming back a little bit. like People have seen the distinction between good and great or average and good.
00:35:30
Speaker
And people want to hear the authentic stories behind photography. but there's still that kind of niggling little feeling that people go, well, it's just a snap in it. And when you can give that to for everybody, then it really does kind of double down on the fact, well, it's just a snap because so many people go, I could do that better than that. So, you know, the artistry behind it, I think it's really important. And also one of the final things that I'll say, and the other thing that I've really realized is I have to explain my work more because before I could just put the work out and
00:36:02
Speaker
it kind of spoke for itself whereas now I'm realizing that people really need to really understand why I've made in a very very kind of you know distraught way you know it has to be like they have to understand that I'm having an argument with myself or with the machine or with the state of because if they don't then they don't really understand if it's authentic and but um So authenticity is kind of supported by being able to discuss it and talk about it and go, oh, okay, well, the reason I'm making this is so that you can see the potential of what this technology can do, but also it's reframing the imagery that I'm making in a way that you're kind of questioning it or asking yourself,
00:36:51
Speaker
Is that real or is it not real? ah And also the other thing, the last again, the last thing really that's sad to all of this is once we get past it, is it AI or isn't it AI?
00:37:02
Speaker
That's a whole other crazy load of stuff. You know, that really is.
AI's Influence on Critical Thinking and Creativity
00:37:07
Speaker
nuts and it's not far away like it's really not far away so people go yeah this presumption if if it could be AI will be you know that I haven't even thought about that in depth and I really need to because that's a whole other area where you know i put in my magazine know imagine if i just not told anyone i'd done use ai like you'd all thought that i made these pictures because on that i'm capable of doing that i have that ability to do 90 of what i've done i have the ability to do it i might not have the budget to do it but i've got the ability to do so imagine if i hadn't said it imagine if i just fobbed off as
00:37:49
Speaker
my own work you know try to con everybody which i'm sure people are doing so that's a whole debate around like oh is it or isn't it is it and i think it's a debate that will wither out and and people just have a presumption on everything unless you can underwrite it as as a creative and go yeah here's me making even though you can make ai This is probably the most important thing to me to say. I take more photos. I write more because of this. I'm a critical thinker in this. I'm trying to understand it. And it's made me more think more, much more than I thought for the last 10, 15 years.
00:38:30
Speaker
So, and I'm, you know, and I'm not somebody that doesn't think about stuff a lot. I'm always thinking about the responsibility and being a creative or an image maker, Whereas now I'm like on, I'm on, it's like I'm on fucking crack, you know, like I'm just like constantly o thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking. So I'm like enjoying that part of it. And I don't think it's making me stupider in of the same way it's making maybe other people stupider because I'm just like going, this is making me mu much, much, much, much cleverer without question.
00:39:05
Speaker
Thank you so much for this conversation. i think actually opens up ah what a lot of interesting topics of thought for people. It's important. It's more a part of the everyday because it's coming and it's here to stay.
00:39:21
Speaker
It's here to stay and it's not going anywhere and it's only going to get bigger and badder and better. That's a doubt.