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When Life Doesn’t Go to Plan With Anja Joy Bont
49 Plays24 days ago
In this episode of Connected with Iva, I’m joined by Anja Joy Bont for a conversation about what happens when life takes a turn you didn’t plan for — and how to stay with it instead of fighting it.
This conversation was inspired by an Instagram post Anja shared — her 2025 recap — where she openly talked about how things didn’t unfold the way she expected. That honesty became the starting point for a deeper discussion about trusting life when it feels uncomfortable, confusing, or simply harder than we imagined.
We talk about how much the way we see things shapes how we experience them, and how our conditioning — everything we’ve been told, taught, and absorbed —influences how we interpret challenges, success, and even ourselves. We explore the idea that many of our thoughts and reactions aren’t really us but learned responses we’ve been carrying for years.
We also speak about learning to listen to your deeper self, especially during moments when life feels challenging, uncertain, or out of your control — and what it looks like to allow life to unfold without forcing it to match a plan.
This episode isn’t about bypassing hard moments or pretending everything happens for a reason. It’s about developing a more honest relationship with life as it is, and learning how to meet challenges with awareness, trust, and a little more softness.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Beginnings
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to Connected with Eva. Today I'm joined by Anya Joybond and we talk about the purpose, listening to our deeper self and what it really means to trust the process, especially when life takes an unexpected turn.
00:00:14
Speaker
It's conversation about the journey, learning to trust ourselves, and making sense of what unfolds along the way. I started the podcast 10 months ago and it's been like a quite a big change.
00:00:28
Speaker
And also like I saw your post and it kind of just like hit me in a way, you know? You know, social media, everyone needs to be perfect in whatever they're doing. So the idea is always that you're always growing and always improving. Obviously, it's very manufactured in a way, but I just saw your post and I'm like, oh.
Anya's Instagram Break and New Adventures
00:00:48
Speaker
Yeah, you know, what was really interesting is that I've been on instagram Instagram, obviously. Like almost everyone, I've got a slight addiction of like just going on it and checking. I don't even know what I'm checking, but I just go on it. I'm like, why am I here? Then I close it.
00:01:01
Speaker
But I haven't been active on it for over a year. I was like, well, everyone on there is from my makeup work. So it's clients, it's photographers, it's models. It's just my network of people that I've worked with over the past eight years.
00:01:15
Speaker
You know, the Instagram handle has my name. It's not even Makeup By Anya. It's my whole name because I started it way before I started makeup. Most people that I have worked with over the course of the eight years that I have continuously worked with, I always told them that I'm leaving for a while. i don't know for how long, but I'm just going and try this new adventure.
00:01:34
Speaker
And I had that feeling that I could only return onto social media if that adventure was successful. And I could not return and say, hey, i did this brave thing. I left. I left my clients.
00:01:47
Speaker
I left London. I left my beautiful home. And I went out and it sucked. It obviously didn't. Like there were so many parts that were amazing. You know, I thought if you're brave and you try something completely new, like the universe backs you up and you go out and you can spread your wings and fly into something completely new. I know life always has its challenges.
00:02:08
Speaker
But I just thought that in some way it's going to evolve and unfold in some beautiful ways, which it has at
Perceptions and Conditioning
00:02:16
Speaker
the beginning. And then it really hasn't. And then it's just been really challenging.
00:02:21
Speaker
Externally, maybe not as visibly, but internally, it's just gone harder and harder and harder. And like, what is happening is This is supposed to be like my new thing, new me, you know, and I'm like, what is going on? And so I thought I couldn't return talking to all those people about what's been really going on.
00:02:39
Speaker
it wasn't even planned. i just woke up that morning and I had that almost that gut feeling of I want to do this. I want to do a 2025 recap and I want to share this and I want to be very honest. So I love writing.
00:02:53
Speaker
And I've had a blog for four years and now I've started this new project on Substack. I love storytelling and I love truth storytelling. I just never done it on social media. I just went through my years like, oh, this I want this picture and I want this picture, this picture, this picture.
00:03:08
Speaker
And then I looked at every picture. Then I just wrote whatever came up. for that picture and in that picture and it just created this story and then I just posted it and it was full of mistakes it was just such a mess I don't know if you know what I'm talking about when you do something it just comes from the gut and you just do it and you don't think it's something else it's like it just came through me and I just did it and I sent it off I closed my app and off off I went and then the next day I looked at it and I saw all these beautiful messages so I started to reply on the comments And then i was like, oh, let me reread it, what I actually wrote, because I don't really remember.
00:03:40
Speaker
And then I saw all my spelling errors. But then it was such a great way to just practice compassion towards myself and just be like, you know what, honey, it's okay. You did what was right in that moment. And it's okay that it wasn't perfectly executed.
00:03:54
Speaker
Well, that's the thing. I didn't even notice that. And I saw it a few times because it's lovely and inspiring and true. How you're saying you're doing things, you're doing things, you're doing things, and there's no progress. And you're like, what's going on?
00:04:08
Speaker
There's this expectation that things are like that, right? Linear. So you're like taking a step up and then what should naturally follow is another step up. Whatever's happening, I feel like we're giving it a translation through our own eyes, we might say, why are these bad things happening? But actually, it's just a part of something bigger that we can't actually explain just yet.
Embracing Uncertainty and Change
00:04:32
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. There's a lot of that. And then there's another thing I really, really noticed and witnessed in myself because I just kept pressing against my limitations of where I'm comfortable. i will say this, I am very used to feeling strongly. like i I know my life to be a very intense one on a like sensory level. I know overwhelm. I know depression. I know fear. I know these emotions very well. Oh, I also know excitement and joy and love. Let's say the positive as well. What happened last year was almost first year's out-of-body experience where I was like, this is not at all how I had planned my life to be. I'm not even talking about, oh, i i made this meticulous plan, you know, like step by step. That's not how I live. I go with the flow. It's just that i never expected myself to ever be back in Switzerland, for example.
00:05:23
Speaker
And then I spent five months in the summer trying to figure out my life in Switzerland. And it just felt like I'm here, but part of me isn't really here. so I just had almost this like this morphia of like my body and soul. i had to like return home in a way. So where I'm going with this is that I've realized that it's not only the way I'm perceiving. i can look at this situation and be like, this is fantastic.
00:05:49
Speaker
This is amazing. I have absolutely no responsibilities whatsoever. i can literally wake up tomorrow do whatever i want. I can pack my backpack and I just go off. Like I can do whatever. Like this is how I could look at this situation. I want to look at it this way.
00:06:04
Speaker
But then there is the other part, conditioning. So obviously the way I've been brought up, be responsible adult, you need an income. So there's all this chatter going on. This was a lot more challenging for me to hear it, see it and recognize it, that this is not me talking.
00:06:20
Speaker
is This is stuff that I've been told that I have put on myself as if this is the way I'm believing life to be. And that's something I'm still like almost navigating my way through because it's still so strong. So it's almost the mix of the way I'm perceiving the world and then added on top of that, the conditioning and the patterns that I have picked up along the way.
00:06:44
Speaker
i had a period about two and a half years ago before I moved back to London because I i was in Portugal. I lived there with my ex-boyfriend and before we broke up, I spent so much time back home in Bulgaria because I was just feeling kind of lost.
00:07:01
Speaker
And it was that kind of thing. I kept going and my grandmother and my dad were like, obviously something's happening. I didn't know what life would look like or what I should be doing, where I should be doing it. i felt extremely extremely lost I was quite depressed and it was that kind of stuckness right I feel like sometimes you do need to go and like stew a little bit and then see what comes out of it were you able to look at it in that chill way was that the experience back then or is that you now being on the other side that you can be like yeah no I needed that time because it's brought me here
00:07:39
Speaker
Well, the thing is, there was a lot of fear involved, but at the same time, I don't think I'd process things because I was going through them. So I didn't process that my relationship was ending and all these kinds of things. So in a way, it felt like it was this purgatory where you're in the middle of something.
00:07:58
Speaker
It's not at a stage yet where you're processing it. Like you say, it's an out-of-body experience because I wasn't thinking about the logistics of life in the future. It was terrifying to think of that. I was just, I'll stay here. I'm just going to stew, see what happens. At some point, it became too much and I just kind of
Transformative Experiences and Self-Discovery
00:08:21
Speaker
cracked. That stew got overcooked.
00:08:23
Speaker
What did you do then? I just moved to London and I had to start over. My relationship ended. I moved back to London and I started working to the point of like exhaustion because that was my process from the time before where I wasn't doing anything and I wasn't happy with myself.
00:08:40
Speaker
It's almost like I jumped into work because I deprived myself of it for so long. So it was like a temporary solution in a way before I can give myself space to figure things out.
00:08:52
Speaker
With everything that I've been saying about last year, i can already tell you right now, I know there is a reason for this. I absolutely know it because I can also already see the like magic in every step of the way.
00:09:04
Speaker
I can already see I'm still in it and I can already see it. For example, I went back to the farm where I was volunteering at the year before. This woman, she's incredible, proud kid. Right now, what she's doing is helping women build their own businesses, mainly people that want to work with animals.
00:09:23
Speaker
She's all about mindsets. But the one thing that she offered me while I was there was one-week course called the Visions Week. And so during the one week, we spent the whole day connecting to our hearts. So really it's about what does your heart want to do?
00:09:38
Speaker
What do you really, really, really want to do? So for a whole week it was just about Ania. And then she said, what do you want to do right now? Like we were still waiting, you know, for the other women to arrive. And i was like, well, actually what I really want to do is lay down. I remember laying down on the bench. I mean, it was October, so was still warm enough. I was laying down.
00:09:55
Speaker
And above me was this wooden heart dangling. And I was looking at the heart and I realized how little in my own life I actually do what I really want to do right now.
00:10:08
Speaker
what I really, really want to do right now. It's always, oh, I have to do this. This makes the most sense. And it's not, what do I actually, oh, I want to lay down on a bench. when I want to watch that wooden heart dangle. And then on the heart, it was written, i am love or I love you. Something of love.
00:10:24
Speaker
And then I am beautiful. And I was just like, this is so nice when we just, oh, you know, and that was such a profound moment for me, just like, Oh yeah, what does my heart want to do? Oh, it wants to lay down. And then I have received this beautiful message.
00:10:37
Speaker
So I did that Visions Week with her. That's where I was going with this. But this was like the entry into the Visions Week. During that one week, I've learned so much about myself and about what I actually want to do. So I can already say that everything that has happened, I know it I have to return there, for example. I've learned so much about myself. what's What were the exercises like?
00:10:57
Speaker
We stood at the entrance of the farm in a circle. And then she told us to close our eyes and to envision a big, beautiful vase standing in front of us. We got to like choose the color, just take it however it you would like it to look.
00:11:12
Speaker
And then she said, now put all your education into that vase. Everything you've ever like been trained as, any school you've done, just put everything in that vase. And then she said, now put everything your mom's ever told you into that vase. I like pulled it out of me and put it into that vase. And we stood there maybe for 10, 15 minutes, just dropping everything, everything that has created our experience in life this far into that vase.
00:11:42
Speaker
And then we took the vase and we walked over and we put it in a place that felt good for us. I like put it underneath the heart. I put it there. And then we went back and then she said, now close your eyes and how do you feel?
00:11:54
Speaker
and then i immediately started, i felt my body almost, I felt completely empty and I started to tear up. I almost felt like I was floating. She saw my tears and she asked me, Anja, what's going on And then I said, I feel like all my identity, everything that is making me who I am, over there in the vase. And now I'm just this empty shell standing here. And I said, it feels really sad and at the same time, very freeing.
00:12:24
Speaker
And then she said, this, the way you feel right now, this is who you really are. Without everything, you know, you've added on on top of you throughout your life. Like this sensation, this and it was very still, was very calm, was very spacious because there was just nothing added on to it.
00:12:42
Speaker
And she said, this is who you are. This is what you are. That was like one of the most beautiful and touching exercises that we did during the week. You need that physical visualization to actually physically do something, but imagining that thing in front of you because the power of that is insane.
00:13:02
Speaker
What I've also noticed is how really everything is energy. Do you know Moji? He teaches a sort of meditation where it's all about emptiness, like just going back to emptiness.
00:13:13
Speaker
I've been meditating with it a couple of times and I sort of felt like, oh, I think I get it. But when we were doing that exercise, i was like, that's his goal for us to feel this.
00:13:24
Speaker
Personally, I needed the visual aid of like pulling everything out of me. out of my system again and again and again and again. So rule number one, can we have an actual vase? We can paint on it and then in it throw all of that. So do we break it? What do we do with it? I don't know. Do you not feel it's an ongoing process?
00:13:44
Speaker
Yeah, so I guess we always put things. But the thing is, what's interesting here is that through life, we become all this information and conditioning and schooling and words we've been told numerous times. You're this, you're that, or you're not this, you're not that. And this is how we perceive ourselves.
00:14:05
Speaker
So to actually feel the emptiness might sound a bit weird and scary because it's like, what do you mean
Creativity, Intuition, and Personal Flow
00:14:12
Speaker
emptiness? Emptiness. All that conditioning has come from the outside. None of it has come from our truth and from who we are inherently.
00:14:20
Speaker
So it's so interesting. Yeah, because that weird and scary that you just mentioned, that's exactly what I felt, right? That's why I started to cry. wasn't like tears of relief. It was tears of, but I'm over there. Like, what do you mean? You just left an empty shell. It was such an interesting experience to feel that emptiness and to be really close with how I could feel and how I'm normally feeling if all the patterns and conditions or just belief systems that I have created from my past and from which I am now experiencing and looking at and perceiving this world.
00:14:56
Speaker
For example, the beginning of the year, right, 2026 was triggering old patterns because there's a lot of expectation in the new year, right? To actually start doing things properly. Now it's a new start. It's a new start, right?
00:15:10
Speaker
You're like, oh, okay, so, but I need to start doing things immediately and like properly and all that. some old patterns got triggered in terms of maybe insecurity or fear. And then it's like, hmm, you know, that's very interesting because there's like so much information coming from the outside, what you're hearing, do, be, you know, all that.
00:15:29
Speaker
If it comes to us and our own truth, there are no timeframes. There's nothing like that. Just going with our own feeling, our own intuition and our own flow. An interesting question to ask is,
00:15:41
Speaker
Who is saying i need to do these things? Like who in me is saying this? How do you feel about London now? It's kind of this interesting change. So obviously when I was in Lisbon, I wasn't doing anything and there was just like a lot of empty space.
00:15:56
Speaker
When I came back to London, things started happening quite quickly. I was getting a lot of work for the first six months and I was kind of exhausting myself. But there wasn't like really empty space to figure out what I actually want to do.
00:16:09
Speaker
I had a lot of fear around work, around money, around opportunities, or you know being like alone or all that all that stuff. So then empty space started being created around me, and I started getting a bit quieter, but also realizing how there's other things that I want to do. i started not getting as much work. I started panicking.
00:16:32
Speaker
And at the same time, through that, the idea for the podcast game. You have to have that empty space to figure out what you want to do Let's say you're getting a lot of work and life is comfortable. You might not create that space for yourself to figure out what you truly connect with.
00:16:50
Speaker
I started exploring that and I find London now so incredible in a way because I meet so many people here. I feel like it's such a creative space. like I feel like it's this burst of energy. And I don't know if that's a popular opinion or not, but I feel like people are so open to possibilities.
00:17:09
Speaker
Or maybe it's the type of people that I've started meeting. Everyone wants to get in touch with their purpose and you know like create things and flourish and So it's almost like something that I'm exploring myself is what I'm finding in in other human beings right now.
00:17:24
Speaker
So like I want to break old patterns and heal old traumas. And I'm meeting people who are on that same journey. It's such a beautiful thing. So I love that about London. It's almost like a center stage for self-exploration.
00:17:37
Speaker
For me, London is such a great place for meeting people that want to really explore the creative part of themselves and actually make it a living with it and not just as a hobby.
00:17:48
Speaker
Do you feel this is the first time you've asked yourself, what does my heart really want to do? I asked before, but it was very ego-driven. It was not really like a purposeful thing at all.
00:17:59
Speaker
It's not like the ego is a bad thing, obviously. Put it aside a little bit. Be like, let me explore what's going on here. And then in that space, in that quiet, curiosity arises.
00:18:11
Speaker
Oh, I know how it started for me. And I talked in a few of the earliest episodes. It came from feeling quite lonely. Not in that sense of I don't have anyone to speak to. In the sense of, I feel quite lost and lonely. That lack of purpose created a feeling of a lot of dread and fear and loneliness.
00:18:29
Speaker
And then I started exploring that. Started tapping into connection, what connection really means. And also, I've always been curious. I have a lot of questions, always. i Kind of started exploring that as a way for myself to change my own mentality and change my thinking, change my understanding of the world.
00:18:50
Speaker
I'm asking you this because this is like something I've been feeling into. do you think that we can know our true purpose as in like life purpose or is it almost this next purpose is this and then the next purpose is this? And then the next purpose is this. I've asked myself that question early on in my life.
00:19:11
Speaker
I really felt called to do makeup in a strange way. I know the power of makeup and how it makes people feel when you put a little bit of mascara and maybe if you have rosacea, how you can You make yourself feel a bit more comfortable. as I myself as have rosacea, so I'm like, oh, I know that feeling. If you want to one day get rid of your red cheeks, you know, you don't have to, but if you want to, and then you look and inside into the mirror, you're like, oh, wow, this is really nice. I always like that aspect. Makeup helps me feel, I mean, good. It's fun. It's playful. You can step into different personalities. You can also just be yourself. So I've always felt called to do that, but I've also felt called to teach yoga as I did my yoga teacher training.
00:19:51
Speaker
And then I also feel called to write and share stories and experiences. And I also feel called to talk about all the things that I'm learning and going through because I as well have so many questions.
00:20:02
Speaker
And I tend to find answers like because I'm like, oh, even going and reading and talking to people and exploring internally as well. i think it's Marie Forleo. She has such a beautiful, she calls it multi-passionate. So there's like not just this one purpose. There's just like, well, I'm so multi-passionate. How can just one thing be the purpose? Maybe the purpose is to but just be yourself and just have fun and explore different avenues. How do you feel about that?
00:20:27
Speaker
But the thing with life is that it's a journey. So it's not a destination. It's a journey, which I think is the core of that question. Maybe not thinking necessarily about what the next step is, just being like, so this feels true for the moment.
00:20:44
Speaker
And if I'm fully exploring it, then the natural progression or whatever the change may be, if it's something completely different, it will happen on its own. I think if you give something your full attention and your full interest and your full curiosity, we don't need to know what the next step is. By living in that moment 100%, then naturally things will happen the way they should for us.
Intuition, Decisions, and Self-Worth
00:21:08
Speaker
Even if they're really uncomfortable. I was just the other day, I was looking at something and this person is saying how, you know, the law of attraction. So of course it is one law, but there's so many other laws. The way that it feels true to myself is more, i came here, I chose this time and I came here, I entered my body to explore and almost see life as this, that it's unfolding in the best possible way. It's unfolding in the best possible way for me I have tried to use the law attraction before. With some things, it might be really nice. With other things, I always feel like, but I want to go with the natural flow of life. And I want to make sure that if I am like living, if I'm transforming out of my body,
00:21:52
Speaker
I want to have experienced it to the fullest, which means all of the experiences, which means also the challenging ones, the painful ones that I might not would have wanted to attract into my life.
00:22:03
Speaker
But that life had ready for me that i I could learn something, I could grow from it, I could explore it, train your muscles, because it's so challenging, but you're learning your way through it and you're actually coming out of it stronger. So you're like training your muscle.
00:22:17
Speaker
And I really like to look at it in that way. And that for me comes also with the purpose. Before it was much more clear lined, whereas now I'm always waking up in the morning. So life, what will you have me do today? How can I do good today? What can I do today? How can I show up today in referring to the purpose? Some people, it might be very linear.
00:22:37
Speaker
For others, for example, for myself, it feels not very linear. But even if it is linear, I feel like people can't know where they'll naturally progress to in 10 years' time. It's not your job to control that. It's your job to open yourself up to possibilities. Actually, it's quite interesting because when you say, what will life bring me today to explore?
00:22:59
Speaker
You're opening your vision. That's curiosity. That's also creating a little bit of whimsy, being playful. Let's see what happens. And what I notice about that is that it's quite invitational.
00:23:12
Speaker
Allowing that childlike playfulness to reawaken almost that has been asleep for so long. Do you have moments, though, where you ask, you're like, okay, so what's next? And then you don't hear anything. How do you sense or know how to navigate?
00:23:28
Speaker
The best way for me to navigate is to do. but how do you know what the next action step is? For example, with you, it was, I saw your post and I wanted to message you to speak to you.
00:23:40
Speaker
So the choice would be message or not message, right? If I don't message you, then we're not having this conversation. So there's this lost opportunity. And in the message, there's also the possibility for rejection.
00:23:52
Speaker
So you have to be a bit braver. And in that way, things would naturally align if they're right for you. Okay, so you don't sit down. he meditate.
00:24:03
Speaker
So I started doing yoga nidra. I was speaking to a practitioner who said that we can set intentions with it as well because they go to the subconscious level, which is where we hold all our limiting beliefs. So with yoga nidra, you can do that.
00:24:18
Speaker
You can start doing these affirmations on a subconscious level rather than a conscious level where they don't work at all. I started doing that recently and it's very good in terms of sleep, but there's also so many things one can do in terms of meditation, yoga.
00:24:33
Speaker
Exercise in general is amazing because it makes your body move and it makes it stronger. I'm just asking because that's how I try to communicate or like connect with my heart. or my soul, and maybe my higher purpose or my, yeah, whatever you want to call it.
00:24:49
Speaker
That's how I try to do it. And then I'm used to having a very strong voice. And it still is very strong in so many ways. But then I think what's actually happening is that it's just more for me to learn before it takes me out. So I think that's what's actually happening.
00:25:03
Speaker
But yeah, that's why I was curious how you make your like next decision and then your next decision. I mean, there are things that certainly I feel a strong reaction to. They're like obvious. For example, sometimes I'm like, I just don't feel good from this or after the situation, after an experience or after meeting a person, I don't feel good. Although sometimes I feel like there's fear as well. Let's say if I'm not sure about something that feels quite big, my body might get anxious, but it might not necessarily be because it's a bad thing for me.
00:25:36
Speaker
It might be because I'm terrified and I'm scared because it's a big jump. I kind of try to, if possible, to differentiate between these two because I've only started doing things that feel quite big for me recently.
00:25:50
Speaker
So I'm teaching my nervous system to be okay with that. it's that kind of thing that helps you grow that will feel scary at the beginning so it's almost like it's safe it's okay it's safe let's do this let's do this that was a couple of years ago but i remember doing a red carpet with A client of mine that had worked with for a couple of years, but this was the red first red carpet we were doing together.
00:26:15
Speaker
And he just booked me, didn't even ask for my rate. And usually it's just the client that we were working together that would pay. So he had no idea. And then obviously I'm like messaging my makeup friend. He's in mad. like He's going do his own hair. i'm just doing the grooming. How much do I charge? he For me, he was like a friend. I went to his house and his partner was there. i was like having a glass of water with them, playing with the dogs. Obviously, we're not friends, but I was like getting someone ready that I really like and enjoy being around with. And then I remember going home, like, I can't charge this person. like So obviously, red carpets start from 600 and up for men.
00:26:50
Speaker
can't charge this person 600 pounds. like I barely use any product. And then I remember talking to my therapist about this because I was like, I can also not undercharge because this will devalue me. And obviously he's been in that industry for years, so he knows the rate. And then she also said something, she okay, what is the rate that your nervous system feels the safest with?
00:27:13
Speaker
And that's what we went with. And it was still high, you know, it was still, ah but it wasn't like a thousand pounds because some people, they charge a thousand pounds for like moisturizer and powder. Obviously it's more, we do so much more work. Actually, that's what she said as well. She said, think about all the work you do before and after. And not only obviously do I make sure that all the products are up to date and everything is clean. I also always prepare myself. Like always cleanse myself. I'm arriving there with no history. That's just the way I was doing it. Like when I'm there, i am there for him. Obviously I have life stuff going on.
00:27:45
Speaker
But I am leaving that at home and I am there. I'm doing my job and I will not bring heavy energy to my job. And then when I leave, i do the same thing. like I clean my products. I clean my brushes. I prepare my kid for the next client.
00:27:58
Speaker
And then I also like remove myself from what I have brought with me from him. So she said, just remember all of that work that you do as well. And that's time and energy and effort. I'm like, oh yeah, you're right. I can charge. When you set a rate that you're comfortable with and you stick to and you say no to things, it's from my own experience.
Self-Love, Inner Child, and Protection
00:28:19
Speaker
The more I started saying no to what doesn't feel right, the more I feel comfortable in discomfort. And before it was more fear.
00:28:27
Speaker
It was something like a perpetual fear of I need to say yes to things because you know every job is like a new job. Yeah, and you don't know when the next is going to come. So there was this fear and then I feel like I'm getting more and more comfortable just with the idea that, you know what, I can't say yes to things that aren't right for me, but I'm comfortable knowing that whatever, in whatever form, because it doesn't need to be modeling, if it's right for me, it will find its way because I'm creating that space with saying no
00:29:00
Speaker
You're creating a very clear voice saying, no, this is not what I want. I want this. However it looks, but this is what I want. Yes. If you think about it energetically, and I will always go back to that because I just love it. You know in your body, I shouldn't be doing this job. This is not right. like This is below my value. So you're going to carry this around with you all day while you're doing that job.
00:29:22
Speaker
And so you might as well just say no. And then say, no, this is what I want and stay true to that. im Like, no, I deserve this. I trust me and life that this is going to come in whichever way or form.
00:29:35
Speaker
And maybe that's even how then you created the podcast. You're like, no, no, no, no. no's Like, oh, well, but there is still income, maybe. When the podcast came, it started creating a sense of security and safety.
00:29:48
Speaker
And also more that, like you said, just saying no, because you're training yourself to know your worth, really. Yeah, I'm reading this book. Well, I finished it, but I am going to reread it forever called There's Nothing Wrong With You. When we're talking about nervous system, I'm just picturing a little child.
00:30:04
Speaker
We're actually just talking to a child. We're like, you're fine. You know, it's okay. I got you. Okay, how do you feel safest? What can we do so you feel the safest? You know, it's just imagining that. And in that book, it's all about thoughts, thinking patterns, thought patterns, and just thoughts in general really fascinate me. Like, where did they come from?
00:30:22
Speaker
Who's invited that one? Not me. Like, why is it, like, going through my head? Who allowed it in? It wasn't me. I didn't want that. So I'm really fascinated by it. We're just dealing with little kids. You know, we're just dealing with little kids that just being scared and afraid. And and so that's how we've got to talk to him Like, oh, yeah, there you are again. Yeah, there you're trying to protect me from something. Okay, yeah. You know, it's like, oh, it's okay. I can see you. I'm hearing you.
00:30:48
Speaker
I did a bit of child inner child work. You go and you're like there for yourself when you were little. And it's the most beautiful exercise. She actually has, in the end, she's got like a list of things for self-love.
00:31:02
Speaker
And one of the things is to have a picture of your like when you were a child out somewhere. And so you can keep looking at her and talking to her. Gotcha. And the interesting thing is I've had that in my flat in London.
00:31:15
Speaker
um I've always had a little picture of me when i was maybe four or five years old. And I've always had that. When I was meditating, she was in front of me. So I liked looking at her and just, yeah, connecting with her every single day.
00:31:27
Speaker
Actually, I have this story. It's not with a picture of me, but when I was little, my grandmother took me to the market and a woman was selling different icons. So you'd had like religious icons or angels or different things like that. And I saw this one with an angel and I have it here.
00:31:42
Speaker
ah She was like, wish for something. And my wish was just silly. Anyway, my grandmother likes throwing away things. She, by mistake, put it in a fire like a few weeks after.
00:31:53
Speaker
and it didn't burn. So the picture remained intact. It's like a print on the icon. It's not a painting. It's a print. And that didn't burn.
00:32:04
Speaker
So the bag, my grandmother painted that white because that was a little burnt. It's been something that I've carried with me all these years. And I was like, this is like my angel, you know, it's there for me.
Podcast Journey and Managing Anxiety
00:32:16
Speaker
So how was it for you when you first started the podcast? Well, it's funny because ah I wanted to do solo episodes. Then I realized, no, actually I don't. I want to speak to people.
00:32:27
Speaker
i have all these questions and I want to figure out the world and, you know, life. So I started speaking with such interesting people, you know, like yourself and having these incredible conversations.
00:32:40
Speaker
And also something that I found, which is quite interesting, is that I love editing. And it's funny because when when I started the podcast, I dreaded it because I couldn't do it.
00:32:52
Speaker
I've never been this person who would try things. So it's like a new thing for me. So because I couldn't do editing, I said, It's probably very difficult and I'm probably not going to be very good at it. You know, so that kind of conditional narrative.
00:33:04
Speaker
And then I started editing and I absolutely love it. So there will be a lot of editing on this episode. It kind of goes to show you that you're capable of so much.
00:33:16
Speaker
Because this wasn't even difficult. It's a magical thing. When you start doing things to realize that actually, well, maybe try something else now because look, that was easy.
00:33:26
Speaker
That also kind of expands the feeling of safety because you realize you're capable of so much in life. So surely you'll be, you know, okay because there's so many possibilities for you.
00:33:39
Speaker
The tiniest little thing, right? But it felt so big when I was starting. Like you just take the action step, but then the anxiety goes. You're like, okay, let me try to figure out here. And then let me try this. And then suddenly it's like, oh yeah, this is really exciting. This is really empowering. It's like that anxiety at the beginning that's almost paralyzing. So you have to make that conscious choice. I'm going to go and do this thing.
00:34:02
Speaker
You create your own expertise by doing things. I've had some like really big anxiety attacks. So while you're in that, to feel it out, to breathe through it, to be in it, it's also very important. Actually, I have a really beautiful exercise that's helped me so much through all of this past year.
00:34:21
Speaker
And it comes from Eckhart Tolle. I was at my partner's. She was asleep and I was unable to fall asleep because I was like having a mind. I was just going crazy. As you do when you're in a Or as I was doing, I can say everyone is doing this. For me, it's like being in this transformation and being in a place that feels very uncomfortable. And I'm saying being in a place as in ah in being in Switzerland and it feels really uncomfortable being here.
00:34:47
Speaker
i love being around my family and my friends, but I just know this is not where I want to be physically. My brain is trying to get me out of it, like with reasoning, irrational, with like logic.
Conclusion: Finding Inner Calm
00:34:57
Speaker
It goes like in circles and circles, trying to find a solution, a way out at 2 a.m. in the morning. It's always been.
00:35:03
Speaker
I haven't even fallen asleep yet. So I'm still awake and it's 2 a.m. Like, oh my God, this is so, this is so exhausting. It's so exhausting being in this experience. so I open YouTube. The first thing I do is I watch a 15 minutes video of James Acaster.
00:35:18
Speaker
He's a comedian. I'm so sorry. I might not pronounce the last name correctly. laughing always takes me out so i watch this and it it makes me feel better and just beneath for some reason youtube suggests ed cartole because a comedian and a spiritual teacher comes hand in hand saving humanity so i'm clicking on the video and then at this point i'm just just turning it over and and i just listen to it as if i was like listening to a guided meditation just closing my eyes and listening to his voice and it's so soothing And he starts talking about how we're only suffering because the current circumstances aren't in a way that we would like them to be.
00:35:58
Speaker
Makes sense, right? I mean, already you're noticing your suffering. and So you're already a step in the observer, right? You're already off. this is so hard like I can barely breathe thoughts are just circling in rounds and they're going crazy so already you're not in it you're not completely caught in it because you notice like this is uncomfortable and and he says what if now instead of like being in this and like just see it happen what if you say to yourself oh wait Wait, this is what I'm experiencing right now. I'm experiencing anxiety.
00:36:31
Speaker
Right now, in my body, in my life, at this time, I'm experiencing anxiety. So let me explore. If this is the experience I'm having, let me explore it. Okay, so what do I feel? I feel my heart going really, really fast. Wow, I also feel that my chest feels really tight.
00:36:48
Speaker
I also feel like I can almost not breathe. Wow, I am experiencing not being able to breathe properly. And my throat hurts as well. It feels really tight. Oh, wow. Okay. So this is what I'm experiencing.
00:36:59
Speaker
I mentioned I fell asleep because I was just doing that. And it kind of removed the like fear and being trapped inside of it. And I was just like, oh, wow. Okay. if this is what's happening right now, then let me at least like learn something from that. Oh, wow. This is how it's wow, okay, now I really know anxiety because I've never had that before.
00:37:17
Speaker
That's really helped me. So when I now like notice some kind of patterned thought about this situation coming in, I'm like, oh, wow, I'm experiencing being afraid about my future. I'm experiencing feeling lost, like, oh, this is what it feels like to not know what to do with my life. Obviously, now I'm able to like say it in a bit more humorous way. Wow, I'm in it.
00:37:38
Speaker
It might not be that, but I am a lot less. connected with it because i can now just see, well, this is not lasting forever because this is just what I'm experiencing in that moment and right now. See, that's the thing. There's so much power in how we go about things.
00:37:52
Speaker
A picture that Frauke taught me that kind of goes hand in hand with what he's teaching because basically what he's saying is that there's always this still truthful point inside of you, like the soul, you know, that is unshaken by anything that is happening because that part is able to observe.
00:38:09
Speaker
If we were the body, I would have died, you know, right then and there. There is just part of us that is still. and silent and is able to observe while having a panic attack.
00:38:22
Speaker
Oh, by the way, my heart really hurt as well. Like it felt like I was having a heart attack. Like it was really tight and like tense. Frauke, she shared this picture with us of the ocean. And she said, imagine the depth of the ocean.
00:38:36
Speaker
How does the depth of the ocean feel like? And then we closed our eyes and we're well, it's really, really calm. Like right at the bottom of the ocean, there's no current. It's just really, really calm.
00:38:48
Speaker
There's a storm on the top and the waves are going crazy and wild. And maybe there's like a thunderstorm and the water is just like circling. Like what's happening in the bottom of the ocean?
00:39:00
Speaker
Absolutely nothing. It's so quiet. And she said just to remember that like even while maybe there is a storm happening in the body right now, There is still the ocean inside of you that is calm and quiet. And to go back to that place and observe. Oh wow, okay, the waves are going. Oh, okay.
00:39:19
Speaker
There's so much power in our thoughts if we direct them properly. And focus.