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The Art of Preserving What We Love With Juliana Van Den Boogaard
62 Plays21 days ago
Join me as I speak with Juliana van den Boogaard about how curiosity creates connection and inspires us to protect heritage. We explore the importance of hidden artisans, preserving cultural identity, and keeping traditions alive through her incredible projects and journey.
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Transcript
Introduction to Heritage
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to Connected with Eva. We often think of heritage as something fixed. Stones, ruins, monuments. But what if heritage is actually about connection?
00:00:12
Speaker
Connection to place, to people, to identity, and to stories that shape who we are today. Today, I'm joined by Juliana van den Burghardt. an artist working at the intersection of art and cultural heritage.
00:00:26
Speaker
Through painting, storytelling, and long-term immersion projects, she explores how curiosity can turn into care and how reconnecting with heritage can restore a sense of belonging in a world that often feels ruthless.
Inspiration from Structures
00:00:41
Speaker
Tell us about the moment when you felt inspired to embark on this journey. This is a big question. There's different answers for it. I'm more about structure, okay, and heritage. So through man-made things, so it could be bridges, it could be old ships, it could be buildings.
00:00:58
Speaker
And I never really understood this, but when I was at school, when I was young, i was always, well, I think it's a bit of an obvious one, i artistic brain, so I quickly got distracted. I was one of those students that stared out the window and looked at the buildings, or when I was frustrated or stressed, I'd always be drawing on a book. a structural thing and it gave me a sort of a peace of mind, a bit of like a meditative state.
00:01:21
Speaker
I'm curious. I traveled. I had amazing parents that gave us the luxury of visiting different places. And I quickly realized that when my friends would talk about like, oh God, this bad weather is really affecting me. I never really had that. I quite enjoy stormy weather because it's expression and i I never really got that. And I was always like, oh, this is strange. I i don't have that.
00:01:42
Speaker
And I quickly came to realize that for me, structure and an environment I live in could really affect me. For example, let's use the extremes, right? You're in New York, you've got high, you know, building scrapers, you're walking around and you're just, you feel so small.
00:01:59
Speaker
And feeling small didn't make me feel bad at all, but I quickly felt like, oh, I want to grow bigger. I'd go visit lots of friends at university, right? And some of them, she'd go to Oxford, Cambridge, you go to Dublin,
00:02:11
Speaker
you go to Edinburgh and you have different types of weather everywhere and quite stormy. And, you know, Edinburgh has quite like a dark facade, stone-like. But entering those cold stone was something I was familiar with ah growing up with a family that's in the disaster. We were always around Castle Fortum, that kind of thing, because you go for long walks and you visit them. And I was like, gosh, this was handmade. People took the time to build this column and look at all the
Curiosity and Preservation of Heritage
00:02:38
Speaker
details. When I was environments where the structure took the time, and quite classical structure actually, I really felt I was always ready to work, sit down, focus, because I was amongst beauty where it took time and so I had to feel worthy enough to work hard and and do well, you know. The point is it became an obsession and it became a must. It helped me be creative, push further. It feels like when you're in an exciting structure or a building, it's like, okay, I'm worth being here and now i need to like up my game. It was like a bit of a motivational thing.
00:03:12
Speaker
And then, of course, the history behind it, the artists that work in it, those are all things that generated curiosity and I really delved into it. And so in the end with my art, you know, my real purpose is to generate the curiosity to the audience, to the public that I naturally live and breathe every day.
00:03:31
Speaker
Sometimes I walk around in the street, especially in a city I don't know. And I will literally walk and hit myself against a pole or bump into people on the street because I can't focus on walking and at the same time admiring everything that's around me. Actually, my husband gets quite frustrated with that. So I put my hand in his pocket and I follow him, which is a bit of a weird thing.
00:03:50
Speaker
Curiosity creates connection. It brings people together. It creates alliances. It makes preservation feel urgent. And it's not just history, but it's something living and that we're responsible for.
00:04:04
Speaker
Why do you think curiosity is so powerful when it comes to heritage? Curiosity is so powerful for all humans. It's what makes us here on Earth. If we weren't working anymore, if we weren't learning anymore, what's our purpose of being here? And I think that today everything's given so quickly. You go visit something, you've already seen it online. You've got to make more of an effort to delve further. into it. You need something not to be abstract to care about it, right? So when you're curious and you explore and you become acquainted with it, you care so you're willing to protect it. You feel connected.
00:04:39
Speaker
I guess curiosity, it's my tool. I'll make a building, right? I'll paint a building, I'll tell a story and then people will be like, oh gosh, I didn't know that about this building and I walk past it every day. i don't know what it is for you, but I know for me, when I become curious about something, I start caring.
00:04:56
Speaker
And then when I care about something, I want to protect it. That's the like natural human ecosystem, I guess, right?
Cultural Heritage in Times of Crisis
00:05:04
Speaker
And so if I start generating curiosity in the way I produce my paintings or the way I'm on site when I'm walking around, I'm interviewing or talking to the artisans,
00:05:17
Speaker
Then people take the time to listen. And then if they take time to listen, even if they're from a distance, they want to be part of it and they want to protect it, right? So Notre Dame is the perfect example, I think. People need to realize the work that goes behind it, the savoir-faire, the knowledge that they have. We need to keep those hidden hands alive for people to understand that if we don't appreciate them, if we don't put funds into cultural heritage, it's going to die, right? And when Notre Dame burned down, people realized publicly the importance of like, okay, the woodworker, the mason, the knowledge, people were putting funds in it. I mean, it was huge. And I think from then onwards, on a wider spectrum, people then realize, okay, we need to keep our heritage alive, right? I find that we live in society today where people are scared of
00:06:09
Speaker
losing their identity, their roots, or they don't really know the meaning of it for different reasons, right? We live in quite a scary, shaky world where a lot of people are fearful or closed. And so often when a country is in crisis, actually the the first time cut fund that we have is in cultural heritage, which is so bad for me on a personal level, because what does heritage do? It's our identity.
00:06:36
Speaker
So why would you cut back on the first thing, which is our identity, where the first thing is you want to protect our identity. And so if we're living through a crisis of belonging, right, heritage helps people feel rooted because identity's layered, it's evolving, and it shapes our exchanges and everything.
00:06:55
Speaker
So you should bring people closer to it during crisis, right, to feel protected care in who we are. I also think it's because we're disconnected from our roots and we're quite individualistic, which is not how we're supposed to be as human beings.
00:07:12
Speaker
And all these things with the modernization of you know the world makes it very difficult to feel like you belong to something meaningful.
00:07:23
Speaker
So that's why there's a lot of loss of purpose. Why do you think that out of interest? First of all, there's the thing that we're not really members of communities anymore.
00:07:33
Speaker
And communities are so important to us. We're beings that are supposed to in a community. We thrive in communities. In Western societies now, that's not so promoted.
00:07:45
Speaker
And easy to even create sometimes because, you know, people are busy and working and doing things and getting distracted. I feel like community is one of the reasons for sure, because we're creatures that live best, flourish best in communities.
00:08:00
Speaker
It's funny that you say that because I agree with you totally. That's why I'm asking you the question to go a bit deeper into it. There is a lack of sense of community. Whether people realize it or don't, I also understand that they don't because you're constantly in connection with the technology that we have today.
00:08:17
Speaker
I've really felt a sense of community in my work, in my art, actually. And two things. One, there's a project I just started. It's a lifelong project. It's called sur les traces des châteaux fort d'Alsace, where there's over 250 castle forts in Alsace, right?
00:08:33
Speaker
ah Which is the region in France where I come from. It's funny, I've been walking around those grounds since I'm a little girl, and it always felt a bit cold and lost in history because it's stone, and I just see it change over time because of ah the seasons, right? And then I didn't really pay so much attention because they all, some look, some similar, some don't, and so on. And then over time,
00:08:57
Speaker
you see the structure that has changed, a wall has come up or wall has come down. When I started this project, which was last winter, January 2025, I ended up going to a few of those castles and meeting the associations restoring those monuments. And they all work so differently, right?
00:09:17
Speaker
Some will have easier access. They'll have like a little house built next door where they have all their tools and their sheds, or they'll have like 30 people working on site. Some will have like five and it's really hard to access and it's complicated, but they're there.
Community and Craftsmanship
00:09:30
Speaker
To say is I got to meet so many of them, speak to so many different ah masons. The sense of community that I got around it, first of all, the people that work there are all the local villagers, right? And a lot of them are retired people.
00:09:44
Speaker
And they come together and they're trained. They'll work to look after the place in in different way, whether the woodwork, the structure to keep the stone up or working with the architects and understanding. And it's bringing them together. And it's funny because a lot of people, they talk about feeling lonely once they retire.
00:10:02
Speaker
or they're a bit too old and their families are abroad working and the community that's built around, not just between themselves, right? Because you can have a community with the yoga class or, you know, a book club, but this is a community where they are actively having an impact over keeping their heritage alive, their history alive, where they're on site and they feel like, I've left something in this world to keep it alive that's part of our history, physically, manual.
00:10:35
Speaker
There's something about working physically and manually when you're next to people and working as a team, than just being behind your desk or office or computer where it brings you back to humanity, using your hands, learning. You're still learning at the age of 75, 80, where it's like, oh, wow.
00:10:53
Speaker
So you're generating curiosity. You're learning from other people from all walks of life. You know, there'll be like the local policemen or firemen working together and bringing back, there's this is French expression, l'église au milieu du village, and it's bringing back to the people from the senses the importance of it doesn't matter who you are, where you come from, we're all here.
00:11:15
Speaker
for the exact same reason. And it's to bring our heritage alive, to keep it going, to work together, to learn from each other and to create a community where at the end of the day, you're actually physically tired because you walked up or you're carrying stones or you're doing this, you know, and you go home and you're satisfied and you like, oh, it's that good exhaustion of like, I've really done something today.
00:11:36
Speaker
And to have that in your community, mean, some of the people, it's been so emotional that I've met. I've learned so much. I feel a bit like a journalist, right? I'm there to record what they're doing.
00:11:48
Speaker
You know, sometimes I painted like a mason and I'm like, what got you into this? And there's so much so deep ingrained behind it. And I'm not going to tell you all their stories, but, you know, one of them said it was a poem when I was at school in the village about a mason. And he told me about it and he wrote it at the back of my painting.
00:12:06
Speaker
and signed it and there's something so personal about it. That's what I want to reach. There's so many people behind it that try and have their like, they're myies they want to be part of something big and we don't realize because we don't see the work that goes behind it. And my duty is to record those communities that thanks to them, they're the true artists keeping our heritage alive. And we need to be grateful and we need to understand and hopefully I'm helpful that I can generate curiosity and interest where people be like, oh my God, I would like to work on my local community and help preserve our heritage.
00:12:42
Speaker
Another project I did, which was in classic sailing boats, right? I went to go live in a shipyard. at the end of the Tiber River, right, in the place between Fiumicino and Ossia, not far from Rome, where I lived for six months on ships, old 1930s ships, amongst Italians that didn't speak a word of English, some of them. And I'd arrive on site and I wanted to paint their story, right?
00:13:04
Speaker
And the hard work they did behind it, they didn't really understand what I was doing on site at first. They were a bit like, okay, what's this artist? You know, this girl doing the amongst this, it was quite a man's world, right?
00:13:14
Speaker
And it was cold and it was winter. Little by little, I'd be like oh, what are you doing? and they're like, okay, she's bothering us. We're here to work. And then when they realized that I was there to really put to paper all the work they're doing, they were really like, oh my God, get involved. So they actually made me help them sand the woods. We're talking about also like 200-year-old keels of ships, and we're talking about some of the biggest architectes of our time, nautical architects.
00:13:37
Speaker
And so I was there working. I got to to get the physical part, so I was more sensibilized to the importance the hard work behind it, you know being so careful and being so meticulous about how you're going to sand the wood.
00:13:50
Speaker
And then i used some of the wood that was left over, the metal that came off that were like so old that I would then put on my painting. And the idea my painting would rot over time. If you don't look after, you don't preserve the work, the work's going to change over time. And that explains and makes a huge comment of,
00:14:08
Speaker
our heritage, right? If you don't look after those buildings, those structures, they're going to rot over time. So it's really important to conserve it well. And then there was one of these old ships that went back into the water that was worked on for five years, right?
00:14:22
Speaker
And I'd been there for six months. The ship goes back into the water. The men, there were two men who were in their fifties, hard workers that started to cry. And just to see that, and it was the emotional of like, my God, like it's so beautiful. All the work that we did, it was such on a personal level. i was like,
00:14:39
Speaker
people don't realize the emotion that goes behind it and the hard work. And I was touched by it. was like, oh my God, like it's not just I'm here to work nine to five. It's I put my endless time and effort physically, mentally to make it perfect because this is a boat that basically raced in the 1920s Olympics. It's heartwarming.
00:15:01
Speaker
It's amazing. They're the true artists of our time. And I'm just there and I'm so lucky to be able to be part of projects where I could just assist and be part of it, thanks to them, and to help tell the story, basically.
00:15:17
Speaker
You're talking about artistry crafts and how it creates purpose to actually work with your hands. I'm thinking about you know my grandmother, and my great-grandmother's time in Bulgaria, for example, where people worked on the land.
00:15:31
Speaker
And these kind of things created such a purpose for them because of the information that's ingrained in our brains that when we do things with our hands, we're who we are almost like born to be. The way we live nowadays makes it so...
00:15:47
Speaker
difficult to be like that. So, you know, when you're doing crafts and you're creating things, you're going back to that route. So I was a bit at the beginning like, oh my God, with AI, if everything's going to be done, what are we going to be here for?
00:16:02
Speaker
I also had the fear because we're always a bit fearful of the unknown, right? What are we going to become? The jobs of tomorrow are the plumbers, the woodworkers, the builders,
00:16:13
Speaker
And I, me, I'm like, yes, my goodness, it's about time. Of course, the information we want to read up about the history, everything will be there.
00:16:25
Speaker
But it means that we will be forced to go back. into making things. The idea is you're not going to be able to have a machine or a robot, you know, putting stone parcels, for example, or these bridges. Of course, you could use a machine to help you, but we need to get back into us humans, the physical aspect, emotional, right? Relationships are important. You can be encircled with technology, right? Like covid everyone's like, oh, well, thank God we've got technology because we can film during those things. And actually, no, you've got to hug physically. You've got to touch. And it's the same with building, making. And we're going to go back to our roots, understanding, you know, today sometimes some light bulb's going to pop and someone's going to call someone to be like, could you help me change the light bulb? I don't know how to do it anymore. That's chaos, you know.
Nature, Craftsmanship, and AI
00:17:22
Speaker
So my husband's in forestry and he's very much with nature and understanding and I'm learning so much about it. Actually, what we did a couple of years ago is to go to Alaska, be dropped off by plane in the middle of nowhere and you have to survive for a couple of days and walk through nature, right?
00:17:37
Speaker
And it was the first time I was amongst a grizzly bear. And before I saw the grizzly bear, i could smell the grizzly bear. And my intuition, I didn't know what grizzly bear smelled like, which is basically FYI,
00:17:50
Speaker
It smells of like a moldy towel, right? But my intuition told me, okay, this is like a predators around us. And then my husband was like, okay, well, by the way, you know, there's bears, et cetera, and you want to be super careful and and whatnot.
00:18:06
Speaker
suddenly it's like oh my god I am nothing I'm like an ant compared to nature well I've always been very like making my own fires doing my own things but like I can't necessarily cook next to my tent and I've got to be a couple of meters away and I've got to eat quickly because if the bear smelts you track them and All these things was like, it's hard to find that nature that some of these parts of the world, maybe no human has walked it. There is no path to find. You've got to make your own path. You've got to like cut through.
00:18:35
Speaker
And I was like, gosh, it's hard to find that. Like now luxury It's not going to like some five-star hotel in the Seychelles and like, okay, great some people. But like luxury is finding the core untouched nature. Luxury is going to be using your hands to build, which sounds very weird. And I hope we could talk about it in 10 years, which is quite short, believe it or not, because things are moving so fast where people will be like, oh my God, that sculpture and he built this. And I like to go back into the buildings where we're like creating these amazing, wooden sculptures that is a fresque on the wall. Let's go back to that. And the beauty of the imperfections, right? Because of course now you have these laser machines that could like make that beautiful fresque. You have perfection through photography, through everything. So there's beauty in the man-made. And we're going back to that. I can reassure you that.
00:19:29
Speaker
I like that. Also, it's a really nice and optimistic and positive way to look at the future. Because I feel like there sometimes at the moment specifically, like you said, with AI, a lot of confusion, fear.
00:19:43
Speaker
So I love that it will be doing things, also meeting people in person, whether it's for in-person events or all that. It might bring us back to communities, you know?
00:19:54
Speaker
I think it already has the moments where I've been very scared about tech and everything. It's literally like articles, scary, the world's ending, this is happening. And I was like, okay, whether I like it or not, the world is changing at a pace that's too fast for me to download and digest.
00:20:14
Speaker
So either accept it or I don't. And to accept things, right, like anything, You're better at accepting it in a positive level faster to help you. Otherwise, you're stagnant. You're in stagnant water.
00:20:26
Speaker
If you're literally going around the negatives, you're not going to find a loophole. So we're in like fast waters. You better go with the current. And to go with the current for it to be livable, so you're not sinking, you're You better look at the positives. You're like, okay, I'm swimming through this. So when I started looking at positive articles through things that I like, suddenly I'm like, oh, wow, okay, I see the goodness in it. And of course, there'll be things that I don't like, but I start having conversation with people. I'm like, okay, this is positive. This is where
The Evolving Story of Heritage
00:20:54
Speaker
we're at.
00:20:54
Speaker
Some people are like, oh, heritage is dying and people don't care about it and Like, well, no, actually, people care about it because of this and this. And that's what I looked into. Or, you know, some people, it's too nostalgic. I'm like, are you crazy? Heritage is all about monuments reliving. As an example, hayas Sophia, right? Which was a mosque, then a museum, then a mosque.
00:21:15
Speaker
The fact is, it's constantly moving. It's changing. I'll say something personal. My family home, which is an old heritage site, was a Roman village, you know.
00:21:26
Speaker
Then it was a monastery. Then there was a huge massacre. Then in the First World War, it was where pregnant women were giving birth. Then in the Second World War, there were Alsatian soldiers and Jews hiding in the castle walls.
00:21:40
Speaker
Then it was a family place. There was so much history. You could either look at it as a nostalgic thing, whereas actually I'm like, it's constantly moving. I mean, the fact that we could keep it in the family, it's absolutely amazing. But maybe one day we won't be able to, and maybe one day we'll be a site for visitors. It will probably be, maybe be a museum or maybe it will be an experience where people could come a bit like a hotel or Airbnb experience or there's so much, there's so much and it's constantly moving with time with society.
00:22:12
Speaker
It's not nostalgic at all. It's actually fascinating because yeah, they're standing still. They look the same. They're all stone. They're all walls. But they're constantly moving that actually the fact that it could adapt to our society, it's fascinating.
00:22:28
Speaker
Fascinating. And it's not nostalgic. And I'm curious. It's like, what is it going to be in 10 years? It's scary, right? But at the same time, it's like, wow, I can't wait.
00:22:39
Speaker
to know what it could be in 10 years. And sometimes when it's difficult times, so I could imagine people during the war, when it was bombed and the structure collapsed, they're like, it's the end of it.
00:22:51
Speaker
Oh, what is our family going to be? It's actually the fact that the hardest part means you're at the lowest point, you can only go up. And what happens when you go up, that growth is where it becomes stronger again.
00:23:03
Speaker
And that's the beauty of it. So the moments where that's the lowest, and that's also with society, I'm like, okay, wow, this is a low point. There's a moment it's going to go higher and we're going to learn from it. And that's going to be the most powerful moment where the pride and keeping it together and building and putting the stone on top of one another, rebuilding is what creates like, wow, this is who we are. This is where we come from.
00:23:27
Speaker
That's the beauty of it. It's like an immersive history book. So, you know, you're walking there, you're opening the book, and then all of the history is coming at you and you feel so connected to it because you can see it on the stone, you know, oh, that was from that time. And it makes it feel so personal as well.
00:23:48
Speaker
You can touch it so you can touch history, which is so beautiful. Actually, I'll tell you a story. Exchanges. People exchange, have an influence on your life, right?
00:23:59
Speaker
I had this history of art teacher at school who was just amazing. She changed my life. That's why I really believe in education and and teachers. Teachers have the best job and it's undervalued and they have the biggest influence on children, right? We don't realize that. And my teacher, we had the chance of going to Florence and visit amazing places.
00:24:22
Speaker
and museums. And I noticed, and she also shared with me, that when she arrived in the museum, she would pull out a flock of hair and drop it in the museum or on a site we would be.
00:24:35
Speaker
And I'd be like, why are you doing this? And she's like, okay, Juliana, the thing is, I'm on historical grounds that are so amazing to know that a part of me is on soil or structure that breathes history and have so much importance, gives me comfort.
00:24:54
Speaker
And i was like, that's such a weird thing. But it stuck with me because when I'm on site, especially on restoration sites where things are changing, that's the most exciting. time I'm like, historically, this is vital. It's so important.
00:25:08
Speaker
I sort of walk around at first and I try and like get a feel of the sight. I touch the stone and I'm like, how many other people have touched the stone? And sometimes I'll try and find stones that are really in like nooks of a place and I'll touch it and I'll be like, that's crazy.
00:25:26
Speaker
Like this is something that has been there. It's probably the lowest stone and has not moved. And for me, it's like, okay, I went there i touched it. There's a feel for it. I also have a a sensitivity towards the materials, the grain of the stone, the soil of the place that was there, but the smell, the cold, there's so many senses. And I sit there in silence for quite some time and sometimes... I find myself pulling a piece of my hair and leaving it there. I know it's going to go with the wind and it doesn't matter. it's like a part of me I'm leaving behind. And it's a so bit of a like um my sign of respect of like, I want a part of me being there because it's so beautiful and worth. And I'm like, I left a piece of me, you know. And I understand this identity and understanding. Could you imagine what the craftsman must feel? And I'm talking about even people restoring, you know, Rembrandt paintings, but they're cleaning the paintings. And they're adding the pigments and all these things with the night watch, that painting.
00:26:23
Speaker
And they leave and they come and they see millions of people every year come and look at those paintings, look at the restored place, reopen the people that worked for Notre Dame, everything. They see all these people emotionally being there like, oh, wow.
00:26:35
Speaker
They're like, I physically helped doing that. It doesn't matter. You don't need a medal. It's just like, God, I really added value on this world. Talking about Notre Dame, I really like the story of one of the people working on it, getting married there afterwards.
00:26:52
Speaker
It was almost as a way to thank him and to appreciate the craftsmanship. But also it was collective thank you for everyone who worked on it.
00:27:03
Speaker
It was so beautiful. It's so beautiful. And that also creates a
Art, Collaboration, and Heritage Preservation
00:27:07
Speaker
community. For me, the sense of community was really vital in my work. A lot of people are like, you're doing too much, Juliana.
00:27:17
Speaker
You should either just paint or you should go interview people. I've always done lots of things, you know even exhibitions. I did my own exhibitions. I invited the mason, the artisans, Everyone's like, why are you trying to be jack of all trades? It's like, I'm not trying to be jack of all trades.
00:27:35
Speaker
I'm only a piece of the puzzle. For my work to look complete, I need to have everyone around. For example, an exhibition I'm dying to put out in a couple of years would be on the Castle Forza Van Zass, right? Of the communities that I've met.
00:27:50
Speaker
And in an ideal world, and I will end up doing it because I'm determined, is to do an exhibition where maybe you'll have the president of the patrimoine that's there who's talking about the importance of heritage on the organization point of view level. Then I would like to maybe have a mason person. that's there with his stone, showing people what it's like to carve a stone. So it would be like an experience exhibition. Then I'd like to have maybe more on a digital front. You know, sometimes you've got to digitalize what parts you're going to have to restore and do.
00:28:27
Speaker
He'd be there with a computer showing the importance of the digital aspect. Then me as an artist, I'll have paintings, which are imagined photographs of the places before, during, after in an artistic point of view, because I feel like it has a different kind of value than just a photograph where you have the piece of the stone on a canvas and then there'll be a video. And then you'll have so many different things, so many different senses because people have different interests, right?
00:28:57
Speaker
And the point is, The more we're together, the stronger we become, and the more our statement of storytelling of those historical places come alive. Because some people feel like, oh, it's this old place, you know. No, they're a alive. They're breathing. They're moving cells. The people that work behind it, there are so many people.
00:29:19
Speaker
They're those telling the stories. They're the journalists. We belong together. They're not different sectors. So if I can be the magnet because my job is to meet all these kind of people, you know, to bring them together under the same roof, to have exchanges, not to just tell the story, but to learn from one another. I learn so much. I'm like a sponge absorbing information on site. It's continuously moving.
00:29:43
Speaker
You can't just like, okay, now I know the history of the place, I know everything. Like, no, there's so much, there's different technologies, there's things that are evolving. And so the community has to stick together.
00:29:53
Speaker
And I will be that glue and I want to be that glue and it's my duty. And, you know, maybe i do it in painting, but maybe there might be a different medium that I use later.
00:30:04
Speaker
that helps me be more expressive. Maybe sometimes I can't paint because I feel frustrated. I'm like, God, like, am I really bringing enough to society? Because sometimes I'm like, are people interested enough in my paintings? I feel like I could do more.
00:30:19
Speaker
Like it's never enough. And thank you for that. Thank God. Because if it's enough and I'm like satisfied, will I keep moving as much as fast and as passionately? i don't know. you know, some people are like, when is my goal? When are will I be satisfied?
00:30:32
Speaker
I don't think I'll ever be satisfied. You can continuously grow. You can continuously pass a message on. And so my idea is once we build this community and this exhibition, even with the paintings, some of the artisans will have that added value in the work because they'll sign something at the back. It'll be personal. There'll be a letter behind it or something about why they're part of it. And then the idea is a percentage of those paintings will not go towards a gallerist.
00:31:00
Speaker
Let's say one of the castle forts was not able to build their north wall because it's too expensive and actually their organization is less structured than than others. Okay, all those paintings, that whole series will go to rebuild that north wall of that castle. And so I'm someone that doesn't know much about the site. I love art.
00:31:19
Speaker
I buy this painting. And I know when I look at it every day that I added value and I helped because a percentage of the sale of that painting went towards restoring that wall. And guess what?
00:31:33
Speaker
I met the mason that worked on it because they were part of that. And I know there's an amazing president of that organization because he gave an amazing speech and all his values and the core behind the project are so aligned with, yes, he put words into something I didn't know about because I'm too busy in the city and I'm not sensitive towards that because I don't see it every day, but I understand it because I was shown it on a physical, on a technical level, on so many different mediums. And I believe in that project because why? It's part of our identity. It's part of our history.
Rediscovering Personal Connections through Creativity
00:32:05
Speaker
I feel like I belong and I've given an added value into something that is part of my history. If anything, I think it flows very nicely to my next question. If someone feels disconnected from place, from history or community or themselves, what step would you invite them to take?
00:32:25
Speaker
Oh, that's an interesting one. There are so many steps. I also, by the way, feel disconnected at times. You know, some people are like, oh the world we live in was so disconnected. No, I think everyone has always felt disconnected. When you feel disconnected, It helps you to push further, to reconnect, right? so you keep evolving. You know, some people that, I don't know, never use technology or their phones. They're like meditating every day and they eat healthy and they live the perfect life. I am sure they, at times, feel disconnected. It's part of growth.
00:32:58
Speaker
So we should never be afraid of it. For me, so I'm going to talk to you about a personal level. It's Everything. If I feel disconnected, i need to physically disconnect from the world. I need nature.
00:33:11
Speaker
i go for walks. I do sports. But not just for like an hour. Like I would literally take a weekend where like I switch off. Sometimes I feel connected. i need to paint because my words don't come out. Nothing to do with my projects, anything. My emotions to get them out. Or I need to sing in the shower because I'm a terrible singer and i don't want anyone to hear But it's my way to evacuate and to feel connected, right? Or I need to go smell some flowers or nature, or I need to eat, taste something really good. Oh God, that meal reminds me of when I was a child. It's my mom's favorite cake or whatever.
00:33:49
Speaker
chocolate cake, by the way, and amazing. said But what I mean is you need to reconnect. What are the five senses? Touch, feel, smell, see. That's how one reconnects because that's part of the human body, right? So it depends on everyone.
00:34:05
Speaker
If someone is always on their own, meditating and in nature, maybe their way of reconnecting is to go in a city and see friends. But I think all senses and ways of expressions are vital. And actually in my classes in education, so I teach adults.
00:34:23
Speaker
I teach children. And of course, sometimes I could teach the technical way how to draw, etc. But what I teach actually is past artists, so like Kandinsky, Picasso. I give them a bit of history and then I get them to explore in their own way that way of painting, right?
00:34:40
Speaker
Because a lot of people are always like, oh I can't draw. Everyone can pick up a pen and draw. Everyone can paint. It's like, oh, yeah, you can't say I'm not sporty. Everyone's got to exercise a bit because it's for the mental health.
00:34:52
Speaker
And the same as painting. And we grew up, well, I suddenly grew up where like you look at the other person's paper and you're like, oh, you didn't draw that giraffe very well. Everyone's like, I can't draw because you're comparing yourself. But actually, yes, you can. You just maybe have a different way. And so one of the first classes i always do actually is Kandinsky, right? Kandinsky had this illness where his senses were mixed.
00:35:14
Speaker
So when he heard music, he saw colors. And when he saw colors, he heard music. That's why his work's are so abstract and crazy and colorful, but he would listen to music and you could see in his paintings different feelings evolving, right? And so I put the same music that Kandinsky listened and then I say to them, do it your own way, your own music. So it's not about how am I drawing, but it's more about using color. and music, so different senses, and feeling, and painting, and putting it on the canvas.
00:35:43
Speaker
So immediately puts people out of like what an artist's feeling is meant to be, and to explore. And then they have to present and tell the class, okay, I actually use those colors because actually that music made me feel a bit sad, or that music actually made me feel very summery, and it reminded me of this memory. And they start expressing art, like singing, like sport, like eating, like breathing, like seeing is a must. Everyone, it's a way of expression, should be doing it as an exercise. So actually to those, that's my advice, that don't paint, you know, a banker, right, that wouldn't necessarily in his free time paint.
Teaching, Growth, and Curiosity
00:36:22
Speaker
I'd be like, you should paint, you should do this exercise because you actually reconnect when you're doing something that you're so disconnected from. That's how you reconnect.
00:36:34
Speaker
It's funny because my art teacher, when I was 14, he was always telling us, you're stupid because you can't draw. Talking about the importance of teachers, right?
00:36:44
Speaker
I often got cross with some teachers that I felt really made me feel so small. They said things that really affected me without them realizing. And actually, I had to take a step back.
00:36:54
Speaker
One thing is when you're annoyed or angry at someone, you've always got to forgive. And actually what I think, they're only repeating something that they learned and they don't know better. And if only they knew. So either I let them know or I just let it go.
00:37:09
Speaker
And it's all things. It's like in the road, right? You'll get some people. They're like rushing behind you, like, get out the way, get out the way. And you can either get annoyed and, you know, chase them, not that I would ever. Or you could be like, I like to imagine when I'm annoyed and I've got someone stressed behind me, I just think, imagine he's probably got his wife who's pregnant, who's next to him in the car, and she's about to give birth.
00:37:31
Speaker
So he has to rush to hospitals. I need to help him, so I'm go to get out of the way. And it changed my way instead of arriving in an office, being grumpy like someone stressed me on the road. I'd be like, I helped someone today. which is probably a total lie, or this person, I'm like, okay, they're annoyed and it's just, it belongs to them and it doesn't belong to me.
00:37:49
Speaker
That's kind of my way of going through life in general, right? Not everyone's going to understand what you're trying to say or do, but the only thing you can control is where you're at. So it's the same thing as like going back to artisans because I'm really passionate about that.
00:38:06
Speaker
Some artisans have probably worked their whole life on something and they'll probably be like, no one will ever know that I did it, but it doesn't matter because I know I did. And on my deathbed, I'd be like, I really, really made a difference and I did something that was added value and that's sufficient.
00:38:24
Speaker
I'd love to end the episode with a quote from you because you have such beautiful quotes. I'll say my quote that's favorite from you curiosity creates importance.
00:38:39
Speaker
I would actually go as to say stronger, curiosity is the engine. And so if there's no curiosity anymore in humanity and the engine's not running, what happens is it rusts and it becomes dead and it breaks down.
00:38:54
Speaker
so you need to have constant curiosity to get the engine going. And that's in everything, to ask questions to people, right? Because if you know everything of everything, which is practically impossible, it's stagnant. You've got no more questions. Someone actually said to me the other day, we're talking about intelligence, right? and We came out of a dinner and this person, was there was someone that was very bright, according to them.
00:39:17
Speaker
And someone that was not so bright. were in the car and I said, okay, what makes you think that this person is bright and this person is not so bright? Could you elaborate? And he said, well, you know, he was there running the conversation. were talking about history and he gave all those dates. He had all this knowledge and everything. he was super intelligent.
00:39:37
Speaker
And I was like, okay. And then what about the other person? So I'm like, well, that other person just like not very intellectually driven, a bit stupid, didn't have much to say. and I was like, okay, who was asking all those questions and not afraid to being stupid? Because clearly you noticed that he was, in your words, stupid. It's like, oh, it was that person.
00:39:58
Speaker
And I was like, okay, so you think that that person that clearly did all the books, all the quotes, everything right, that got all the good grades at school, that's standing, sitting there at dinner, literally telling you all the information.
00:40:11
Speaker
But then when you were going against his words, he'd be like, no, no, that's wrong. And then the conversation stopped. Or that that person that didn't know much, that was actually not afraid of being stupid because no question is a stupid question.
00:40:26
Speaker
that left that dinner having learned something, that bounced off questions, that actually put into question that intelligent person, inverted commas, at the dinner, that actually suddenly stopped the conversation because realized that he didn't know in depth that other things so decided not to speak.
00:40:43
Speaker
Who's the bright one there? It's that person that leaves dinner that's constantly learning and evolving as a human being. Who's the bright one there? And that's someone, again, curious.
00:40:54
Speaker
Some of the brightest people are the ones, yeah, that might also know all the dates and everything, but that will keep asking questions, even to those that don't know. And actually, the ones that don't know about something sometimes ask the questions because they've got fresh eyes that never knew.
00:41:11
Speaker
And so you learn and you evolve more. So, you know, you get the type of parenting, I don't know about you, but like, I had grandparents who were like, oh, you can't really talk at the table or give your opinion until a certain age because the adults are talking, right?
00:41:24
Speaker
And then you get the ones where you're too young, you're talking nonsense, since you don't know what you're talking about. Actually, the truth comes from children. They're the bright ones. They come with fresh eyes on this planet. They ask the right questions, some questions that would be like, oh my God, I never thought about that.
00:41:39
Speaker
So you should never undervalue or undermine children. Because they have those fresh questions, those fresh eyes, but suddenly you'd be like, oh my goodness, push further. And it's our duty to ask questions, right? And to continue to be curious, not to diminish them and say, go to school, go learn more, and then come back and then recite to me everything, because then I know i was worth paying your school fees, right? Terrible.
00:42:06
Speaker
I've got a couple of things I'm just going to say out loud. And because we're talking a lot about curiosity, that's why I'm delving more into curiosity, but there's actually so much more. Curiosity is the beginning of protection.
00:42:18
Speaker
So when people become curious, they start to care. And when they care, they protect. It's vital and it's really putting into word the evolvement of why you protect those places. Heritage is one of those few things that can bring different generations into the same conversation, but it's always an evolving conversation.
00:42:37
Speaker
So we're going back in time, but it's also evolved and it's different, but it's also the same because you're going back to the core, the forefront, the story, the beginning. To know where we stand, it helps to know where we're standing.
00:42:50
Speaker
I love that. Protecting heritage isn't nostalgia, it's protecting meaning, skill, and human skill. Tech can open the door, but the real transformation happens in front of the stone, the texture, the silence.
00:43:05
Speaker
I love that one because you're you're talking about different senses in one sentence. I want to make the invisible hands visible. And it's hard. Very often I'm very unsatisfied with my paintings. I was like, is it enough?
00:43:19
Speaker
Is it enough? It's not enough. I feel like I need to incorporate video, speech, feel, everything for it to come one because it has to reach everyone. But you can't do that.
00:43:29
Speaker
Not in one piece. And it's funny because I use my hands for my work and it's so visible. And I still feel like my hand is still too visible over their invisible hands because people are like, the artist. What did she use? It's like, wait, wait. fate.
00:43:45
Speaker
It's not what I used. I'm using that as ah as a way of luring you into the story to see the other hands. Another quote I've got is when people feel disconnected, they can become fearful and heritage can be an anchor, a way back to meaning.
00:44:03
Speaker
Heritage reminds us that identity isn't fixed. It's layered, evolving and shaped over time. Heritage isn't frozen in stone. It's held by people.
00:44:14
Speaker
If we reach people for a feeling, then we reach them for longer. And then that's when curiosity is the beginning of protection, right?