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Jujutsu Kaisen Zero
749 Plays4 years ago
Andrew triumphantly returns to the podcast to join Zuhair in providing their thoughts and reactions to the theatrically released prequel anime film: Jujutsu Kaisen Zero!
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Transcript
Exploring Mississippi and Podcast Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
You're invited to explore cypress swamps and magical gardens, and float along the rushing waters of an old-fashioned swimming hole. Plan your journey at visitmississippi.org slash outdoor adventure. Mississippi. Wanderers welcome. On another episode of the Animation Deliberation podcast, we are covering Jujutsu Kaisen Zero, the movie that is currently streaming in theaters. Streaming in theaters? Airing in theaters? No, it's just in theaters. Go watch it. Listen to this podcast. Act this out, we have no control over it.
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00:00:29
Speaker
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00:01:11
Speaker
A one, two, three, it's time for animation deliberation, a conversation and a celebration of a favorite action animated series. Yeah. Yeah. We are back with another episode of animation deliberation, the podcast where we take action animation seriously, but not too seriously. I'm your host, Sue Harrely back with us today. After so long, Andrew Rogers, how are you, bud? I'm back, baby. Uh, third time's a charm. It's great to be here.
00:01:41
Speaker
I missed you a little bit. I missed all of this that's going on, but we have more anime, so I'm excited. Yeah, it's not like you were in a really state of boredom while you weren't here with us, but...
Return from Vacation and Jujutsu Kaisen 0 Discussion
00:01:55
Speaker
Yeah, I disappeared off of the United States for a little while. Took a little vacation, but...
00:02:02
Speaker
Now I get to be back and talk about things that are still not American, though. You were closer to that part of the world, and now we have to maintain the connection while you're back here. I did have a two-hour layover there and back in Japan, so I had to enjoy my little bit of culture while I could.
00:02:21
Speaker
We were walking around after we saw this movie yesterday and it hadn't been an FYE in the longest time and they have really cool anime stuff and it was so much fun to walk around and look at everything but good lord their price tags are why that company went out of business.
00:02:37
Speaker
Oh yeah, it's the same way with Hot Topic and all of those. They have great things. And I'm like, ooh, this is an amazing Hunter, Hunter hoodie. And it's $80, and it's just some screen printing on a hoodie. I'm like, I can't do that. That's not what I want. It's sad. It's such good content. Oh, it is. It is. One of my favorite things there that they had that obviously I couldn't buy, because I would have bought all of them and never eaten them, was there was chocolate bars. And each one was off of my hero characters.
00:03:08
Speaker
So like Tomioka was dark chocolate because dark shadow I Can't remember what sugar rush was. I think there was actually like sugar crystals on it. Oh, that's amazing. What was back of you? I Don't think he had one. I'll do the picture afterwards, but they really couldn't look like a cherry bomb in there. Maybe I don't know There was there was a few
00:03:32
Speaker
But yeah, I just love anime stuff. And it is sad that we are not talking about Attack on Titan today, but the studio who has been making the final season of Attack on Titan has made the movie Jujutsu Kaisen 0, which is currently in theaters. I never watched the series at all before going to this movie, I went in blind as a bat.
00:03:53
Speaker
People have been telling me to watch it for the longest time. I figure this is the best time to dip my toes in the water. If nothing in the movie engaged me, it wouldn't have been worth watching the anime, but it is one of the most popular anime around right now, and understandably so. What is your background with Jujutsu Kaisen?
00:04:11
Speaker
So I am one of the people that was bugging Zuhair to watch this, so I figured the movie was a good gateway drug to get him going here. But yeah, I've actually unfortunately only watched about the first half of the anime because I did it whilst I was moving and just couldn't get back into it because then I started podcasting and then this has taken a bunch of my watch time away. So I know I'm going to watch the back half at some point, but I absolutely loved the first half of the show. It's awesome.
00:04:39
Speaker
And honestly, I think the show itself is better than this movie was. So if you're intrigued by the movie, then you're going to love the show in my opinion.
Complexity of Jujutsu Kaisen's Rules
00:04:47
Speaker
But yeah, it's a it's a fun time, but it's a little confusing. And I think we'll kind of get into that as we go here because you're you might ask some questions that even people who are totally caught up with the show don't have answers to because they have some interesting rules in this universe to say the least.
00:05:04
Speaker
And I'm glad you mentioned that, because as somebody who didn't know anything about this, didn't look anything into it, I'm talking to you, the listener. I asked Andrew, should I watch some of the anime? Do I need to watch all of the anime? Can I go into this movie without watching any of it? Because he had seen it at this point.
00:05:21
Speaker
I got paragraphs and paragraphs and paragraphs of everything except a bloody answer of if I should watch anything before going in. So I will clearly tell you people, just go watch it. Yes. And this is right after I had seen it, but after seeing it, I can say,
00:05:42
Speaker
It's a little, there's a couple hurdles to go through. There are some characters that they don't give enough background on, there's some they give too much on, but you can watch it and purely enjoy it without needing some analytical breakdown like my mind and Zuhair's mind like to work in.
00:05:58
Speaker
But yeah, there are just so many question marks surrounding the rules of this show that it felt weird to give a blanket yes or no answer to you specifically as a friend to all of our listeners. Go watch the movie. You're fine now. But what I just said was paragraphs and paragraphs of words. They just look longer on your small cell phone screen. So
00:06:22
Speaker
Here's the one question I do have about the show, since I haven't watched it yet, I just wanted to talk about the movie while I was on for this episode.
Yuta's Role in the Movie vs Show
00:06:30
Speaker
And now that I am interested, like, we are gonna go through, watch the first half, cover it, watch the second half, cover it, as we typically do with anime-related stuff. But, like, with our main character, Yuta, do they just, like, dive right in of, like, he's just this depressed individual that has a set power that
00:06:53
Speaker
We just don't fully understand the first few episodes like that. Like the introduction of the character, like say episodes one and two. So Yuta is not the main character of the TV show. I don't think he even shows up until like episode five or something like that. So that's part of this weird question about the show. None of the characters in this movie are a main character of the show.
00:07:18
Speaker
some of the main characters are like tertiary characters of the show, like they show up halfway through. So it is very disjointed, but also kind of wraps itself back around from what I've heard of people who've read the manga, this movie will kind of play into season two a little bit more than it did in season one. So that's kind of why I think they're releasing it after the first season came out, it might be a little bit of a bridge.
00:07:45
Speaker
But yeah, to answer your question, Yuta is not talked about at all. Oh, that's really cool. Yeah. I mean, I figured that there was something bridge related the way that the end credit scene was, the way that Yuta was talking to Miguel and
00:08:02
Speaker
What's his face? Gojo comes up and like kind of interviews with a conversation that kind of made me feel like that this movie is supposed to be setting up something in the future. Because why would you have something before the series to talk about something after the series? Right. So I feel like this was just kind of like permanent and permanent, permanent, permanent, permanent, one of those great words today, pertinent information for something that's like upcoming.
00:08:32
Speaker
Yeah, I'm going to laugh
Gojo and Miguel's Relationship
00:08:34
Speaker
a little bit. I did not see the post credit scene because I saw this movie with someone who had already seen it and they said, oh, there's not a post credit scene. We can leave. They were wrong. So I don't actually I haven't seen it, but I know what it is. And yeah, it is. I have been told that's about the only thing that we know for a fact that Miguel is going to play some part with Gojo in season two.
00:08:57
Speaker
Interesting. Yes, but let's jump into the movie. I feel like we've kind of beaten around with what the show is What were your thoughts of the kind of start of here's what this world is and what it's gonna be about?
00:09:09
Speaker
I was really interested in it because they, I mean, especially the way that it started off, like there wasn't a lot of people in my theater, but they were very vocal on the big stuff. So introducing Yuta and Rika when he was being bullied and she just came and massacred them and shoved him in a closet, like everybody was like, Oh, so then that's what I was like. Oh, so this is like unusual. Like this is still like holy crap for the standard of the show.
00:09:38
Speaker
Just the way that, you know, clear fans of it were responding because I was trying to whisper to my friend without people being like, man, this guy's not one of us. So it's like, yeah, like, even the way that my buddy was responding was like, this is very graphic and
00:09:54
Speaker
It was actually, it's interesting that watching this movie actually made me wish that all anime started off with the movie because like there was so much developmental stuff and understanding all of these characters like within a two hour span about like instead of like waiting 20 minutes and then one week, 20 minutes, one week, 20 minutes, one week.
00:10:12
Speaker
So having like these arcs of like, all right, you know, it's going to work with Maki, then he's going to work with Toga and then this big bad is going to come in. And then there's like conclusion and you can like step into like what the story is about. Like, I know you haven't watched an art over for people who have like if the whole like.
00:10:28
Speaker
testing in um Zabuza arc like happened just as a movie and then you like watch week by week like there's a whole level of like Immersement that went into this that I've never experienced before that I was really happy with and with the action the Well-paid storytelling and just kind of like leading into what's to come was was really cool to watch and I enjoyed the movie and it's making me want to watch the anime and it's just kind of it has me thinking about
00:10:58
Speaker
other anime and like how well they could do if like the first part was a movie instead. Like I'm thinking about Attack on Titan and Funimation has a movie called Attack on Titan Chronicle which is the three seasons in a movie like compressed into a two-hour movie and I'm not saying that all that needs to be that way but it just kind of has me thinking of like the potential just kind of like the future of anime and how fun this was for what it was for somebody who hadn't seen the actual series.
00:11:29
Speaker
Yeah, I hope as we see these movies become popular and do well in theaters, we do get more canonical movies, because I know that's been the biggest gripe of the anime community for a long while is, hey, this, you know, Naruto movie came out, but it's not really canon. So it doesn't really matter. They've never made a canon movie. Exactly.
Canon in Anime Movies Debate
00:11:48
Speaker
So
00:11:48
Speaker
It's hard to kind of get into now that we're seeing canon films come out. You can get this character development. You can make it matter. I mean, Demon Slayer is a perfect example of that movie is an integral part of the story. If you don't see the movie only example.
00:12:04
Speaker
Well, yeah, it's the only I mean, this hopefully will pay off as another example. And we're starting to see it more of, you know, it's going to matter in some storytelling capacity, because you're right. It was good for people who didn't have experience to these characters that you could get some of the answers, some of the character development, I will say from someone who had seen the show, the first 20 minutes were really slow because of that, because we kind of knew some of these things about these characters.
00:12:29
Speaker
So I think that's the hardest part that they have to work on is balancing it out saying alright, how are we going to make this work because I'll reference back to Demon Slayer as our only example. They didn't bother giving Tanja Rose any to Inosuke their backstories in that movie. They just said buckle up, here's some people.
00:12:49
Speaker
And it paid off for us. Maybe it didn't pay off for people who didn't know quite as well. So hitting that balance is really good. But I will say the storytelling beats, they were interesting, they were really good. And again, with Yuta not being a main character in the show, his story was really intriguing to me. Him and Rico was just this heart wrenching had me sobbing in a theater again story that I just loved.
00:13:16
Speaker
Yeah, I went from cringe to tears real quick on a couple of parts. In regards to the comparisons, I think the only thing that really got close to having a canon movie was the Dragon Ball Super stuff. But it wasn't like Demon Slayer where they just turned the exact movie into episodes. They actually expanded on everything in the episodes when they became part of the show.
00:13:39
Speaker
But then it's another thing where it's like, I already saw this, like, get to the next part of it. And they've had two movies that were like that. So it's like, well, super is out. Now I got to wait for this thing to end. And then I got to wait for the dub because I can't stand Goku's voice. And you already nerfed Gohan, didn't make him look any cooler in the show. So.
00:13:58
Speaker
That's a whole other episode. But sticking. So with the with the Demon Slayer one, like I watched that maybe four times in theaters because it was just so amazing. And the second time, like my buddy hadn't been to the theater in a long time because the pandemic and stuff. So I was like, you know, watch like as much as you can of Demon Slayer before going to the movie. And I think like.
00:14:19
Speaker
the first like four episodes he saw was like sufficient enough for him to like get the gist of what was going on and then just go back and watch the show and love the show and be like, oh, my God, when is season two starting?
00:14:30
Speaker
And the show for demons. They're obviously like the first episode in the last episode. We're the only thing that weren't in the theater This has become a film theory class more than it has Hey, I'm interested in film. I feel like this is at least somewhat good conversation to be had because yeah, I
00:14:51
Speaker
I had a friend who came with me just like you hadn't seen this before she walked out of the theater was like, okay, now I need to watch the show. This seems interesting. So there are ways that you could do it without seeing it's just
00:15:05
Speaker
make sure your fan base is aware of that kind of thing. Or make sure all of your fan base is in the same place. Introduce a whole slate of new characters so none of us feel like we don't know anything. Or don't give backstory like Demon Slayer. But either way, it was good. And I mean, the cast of characters in and of themselves are really interesting characters with the main three students, Maki, Inumaki, and Panda.
00:15:31
Speaker
What were your thoughts having never been exposed to any of these three before? Who was your favorite and why is it Panda? I think it's actually in between Toge and Maki.
00:15:48
Speaker
Really? You're not going to- Panda was really cool, especially when he like, when he like powered up and just started going like, eat shit on the other dude that was like, whoa, this is sick. There's been like a lot of like promotional art and stuff that I saw Panda and I was like, I'm not going to ask what that's about because I am going to find out at some point.
00:16:06
Speaker
And throughout the movie, I was fighting the urge to be like, why is there a panda? Why is this not weird? And I was like, I'm gonna wait. I'm not gonna be that guy. If the movie doesn't explain it, then I'll ask. But it's like,
00:16:20
Speaker
And all we got was when the main villain, Ghetto, actually said like a mutilated corpse, a cursed voice, a failure of the clan and stuff like that. So I was like, fascinating. I love these backstories. I want to go into it. And then same with Toga. I was like, why is he just saying salmon?
00:16:41
Speaker
What end up being like rice ball recipes and then i was like don't ask don't ask don't ask don't ask go in the explanation came and i was like perfect glad i didn't ask cuz that delivery was awesome patience is such a beautiful thing in life.
00:16:53
Speaker
Um, and then I guess I just kind of like Maki's backstory about how just everything was against her and he tried to be a badass and it's like, it's a cool chick with a staff. Like, how do you not like that? Especially that guy who trains weapons and loves working with the staff.
00:17:12
Speaker
Yeah, so I really was between the both of them just because they're like one had a really cool story and the others like the ability was just so unique how he had to be like very timely with how he used his voice when he took his medicine.
Anime Fight Choreography
00:17:25
Speaker
The fact that he was so advanced that he could take some of these like lower missions on his own. Just fascinating. I love everything about these characters. I still don't know much about Gojo and I want to find out from watching and not like
00:17:39
Speaker
he kind of gives you kakashi vibes with the silver hair and just chill attitude and something with his eyes that has to be covered. And then it's like, Oh, what are these star? What are these Stardust eyes telling us? But to the one fight sequence between him and Miguel, when it was just like all the close combat stuff and you should be in the daylight. And I was like, Oh, it looks so.
00:18:03
Speaker
That is one of the points that I wanted to talk about so much. Mappa went off there. You could just tell they wanted a fluid fight scene of just this person is going to put the other one in the ground no matter what. And yeah, whether you know anything about Gojo or not, you can't deny that was just a powerhouse of a fight scene that just makes anime or action fans in general just get that little feeling in their stomach of like, Oh, here we go. Oh, here we go. Oh, here we go.
00:18:30
Speaker
It was such a good scene, so much great animation. Yeah, Gojo's just the best. He's such a fun character to have that has this attitude to him that you just can't beat for some reason. He's got that cool guy thing going, and I absolutely love it. But, uh, circling back on- When he was in the council, I just kind of like, like everyone's panicking. It's like, chill out, I'll take care of it.
00:18:56
Speaker
Oh, yeah, you know, he's been through this before. He does not care. He's like, you're going to listen to me. You called me here for a reason. He's got that like master Yoda vibe or maybe more mace window of like you brought me here. I'm going to do what I got to do.
00:19:13
Speaker
Now it's awesome, but the female characters, both in this movie and the show, I think this anime might have some of the best, like, strong female characters as it goes, and we'll talk about them more during the show itself, but I agree. Maki just has this power to her of, I'm gonna do what I want, I'm gonna prove myself right, don't end up feeling, you know, sorry for yourself or for this guy, I just gotta do what I do.
00:19:38
Speaker
And then, you know, to find out that she can't actually use curse things like, you know, her glasses and her staff being, you know, the items that she has to work with was just awesome as well that like she's at a disadvantage, but still going out there and kick it butt taking names. Yeah.
00:19:57
Speaker
I didn't know what to say about that one fight sequence that we were geeking over. I feel like the Great War Arc of Naruto kind of set a standard of actually having proper hand-to-hand combat instead of the Dragon Ball Z. Like, oh my god, they're going so fast, I can't see them.
00:20:19
Speaker
And you could see it coming up a lot, like the fight sequences in My Hero are very cool-paced. Demon Slayer definitely does it a lot where things are going quick, but you can tell there's actually like choreography behind it and going through, and then the way that that kicked into is just phenomenal. And I'm excited that Animation Studios are actually like making that the norm of actually using the, you know, I guess motion capture or
00:20:47
Speaker
actually prioritizing choreography instead of small moments within like bursts of speedy type scenes.
00:20:54
Speaker
Yeah, I think it definitely comes with them having more money to work with so they could take the time to actually, you know, dedicate out what this is going to look like. But I agree, it just, it feels like there's so much more of a payoff there when you can actually see the connections, you feel the blows. And it's really interesting that we're talking about all these shows, you know, My Hero, this Demon Slayer, they're still in that supernatural realm where it would be very easy to say, oh, because of the powers that they're using,
00:21:24
Speaker
you know, there isn't choreography because you just can't see it. They're only throwing fireballs at each other. Instead, they're saying no, it's still going to be rooted in some sort of realistic martial art style. And, you know, so what were your thoughts on the actual martial arts? Did you see any specific notes of different, you know, styles being used between any of the characters? Or was it a bit more of a just, you know, cool to look cool?
00:21:49
Speaker
I think it was closer to like the Wing Chun style of things where it's very close. A lot of like trap and attack type stuff. I saw that between Panda and Gojo's main fight scenes.
00:22:04
Speaker
Okay, you know, I just wanted to ask because I know it's spelled different, but there's still always that thing in the back of my mind of this is called jujitsu Kaizen. There's obviously the martial art called jujitsu. If there was any sort of link, obviously, I have no experience with these things. So I would I wanted to talk to our resident martial artist and get these questions out there.
00:22:24
Speaker
I meant to look at what Jujutsu actually is, and I feel like it's something along the terms of fighting curses. I haven't actually looked this up, so don't take my word for it. But one of the commonalities is that whenever you see Jujutsu, I think it means technique.
00:22:49
Speaker
in a way. So it's like something jitsu or am I saying that right? Well, yeah, I mean, we have heard it before in like Naruto, specifically, I mean, it's technique. So like,
00:23:08
Speaker
jujutsu Kaizen, I think is supposed to be like a curse technique or in just to kind of piggyback off this, I pulled up Google Translate, which we can trust as far as we can throw it jujutsu does translate to art or means. So I'm guessing in a looser term, it would mean something along the way of your technique, the way that you're doing something, their way is another translation for the word specifically.
Cultural Implications of Jujutsu Kaisen
00:23:31
Speaker
So yeah, you might be along those lines.
00:23:34
Speaker
Uh, at least for the base root of it. So that makes some sense. Yeah. So the, I mean, the quick goop that I gave it was jujutsu kaisen literally means sorcery fight. So I guess it's supposed to, like, I think the, the Ju part of it is something along the lines of sorcery or the magic or the curses or.
00:23:54
Speaker
Okay, I mean, that's awesome to know to have a little bit more background. I mean, I know it's obviously called Jujutsu High in the movie here. So it makes some sense that it's magical high school. It's just kind of funny to think we get this really cool sounding name and to people in Japan, it's just magic high. It's the same as calling a movie sky high if you're going to put it in the sky or something silly like that.
00:24:22
Speaker
So actually, one of the reasons I actually didn't get into the show right away was because of the name and because it sounded like Jujitsu and there's been... It's like that art is so mainstream now. It's almost like the new karate when it comes to martial arts.
00:24:38
Speaker
that it was like, oh, an anime about jujitsu just because jujitsu is getting popular. So it's like, I kind of brushed it off because of that. And one of my friends who trains jujitsu, who's the one who got me into it, she was like, it really is a great show, but the name pisses me off. So I just call it juju kaizen. And I've heard her say that so many times. And that's what I say all the time now. And it kind of rolls off the tongue a little bit better.
00:25:00
Speaker
Got that bad juju. She's like, she's like, yeah, I just I can't stand to call it something that's so close to jujitsu. So I call it juju. And then you can mess around with the calling like, susu kaizen or tutu kaizen. I'm like, zuzu kaizen. She's like, yeah, zuzu kaizen. Even better now.
00:25:15
Speaker
title of the episode. Oh my gosh, that's the origin of how I got into the show more than the origin of the show. You were talking about like, um, some of the characters who pop in and there's like other characters to talk about. One of them that caught my eye during the battle scene was the teal hair chick who was doing the quick draw on the sword. I was like, she looks like she's usually going to be one of my favorite characters. And then the like sweet mecca dude that came in right after I was like,
00:25:45
Speaker
I don't know who these elite looking guys are, but I can't wait to see more of them.
00:25:59
Speaker
Yeah, I'll kind of leave it at that. But they are, again, the cast of characters is a very character driven show and movie, honestly, that it was just all based around the relationships that they have with each other, how they interact, as opposed to just, we got to fight some really bizarre looking curses, demons, whatever you want to call them.
00:26:21
Speaker
But on that, I'll transition into this because you kind of brought it to my memory as we were talking. How do you feel about the art style of this movie? I personally am a little indifferent as to how they do the characters. I think they're a little bit more on the plain side. But the way that they animate them and all of the scenery with it, I think is very, very well done. I absolutely love simplicity with anime designs. Okay.
00:26:49
Speaker
The Wayne family comics that you've been sending me, the designs of that are epic. Everything in Naruto and My Hero. There's so much anime that have had simple designs and very simple shading. And then the quality of everything amps up and goes to the fight. Even Avatar the Last Airbender, and then I'm watching Dota.
00:27:17
Speaker
on Netflix, which is the same animation studio that did Legend of Korra. And it was the design that got me into it because it's just very simple, simple with the colors, simple on the shading. But like when it's time for the action to come in, it's just so fluid, so clean. And yeah, the simplicity is just so key when it comes to character design for me.
00:27:42
Speaker
You see, that's interesting because I would almost consider, in my opinion, and obviously everyone has their own different thoughts on this, something like Avatar the Last Airbender or Korra, as much as it's simple, there's still a very artistic way that they're drawing the characters. They have a little bit different proportionality, a little bit more rounded facial features, different things like that, whereas this is very simple in the angular way, I guess I would say it. And again, I don't totally dislike any of these characters. It's just a difference of
00:28:12
Speaker
thoughts on that that you know that you have these very thin line versus thick line drawing almost and it's kind of getting into the nitpicky but this is what I love about different styles of animation is everyone has a different hand they bring a little bit different stylization to it that you know avatar had this bubbly real world feeling to it with their shadows and stuff whereas this is a little bit off that mark I don't it's hard to describe obviously I am not as deep into the art world as some people may be but I
00:28:41
Speaker
I think it's color and shading are the biggest factor for me and it's one of the reasons I had trouble getting into the Clone Wars because everything was so painterly and gradient based and there was a lot of colors and a lot of shapes and a lot of shading going on. So it really was a story that actually got that
00:29:00
Speaker
pushing for me and then I started appreciating and then the lifelikeness of Bad Batch was what was fascinating there. But there is a lot of like American animated stuff that tries to go so heavy on detail. And I think that's where it loses me a little bit. But anime does have an ability of keeping simple color and shading. And that's, that's where I get drawn in.
00:29:27
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. Because, you know, everything I just said, it still points to this looks almost like it was lifted from the pages of a manga, which is one of my favorite things about anime is when you could compare a panel directly to the screen and see right where they were coming from. We I saw it plenty with this. And I've seen plenty of comparisons with Demon Slayer and Attack on Titan alike that these animators are staying true to the craft of the original artists and authors. And I think that's amazing. Yeah.
00:29:55
Speaker
Yeah, they definitely do a good job. I'm just looking at this picture of like cursed Rika that I have up on my screen. I think we're looking at the same one and it is... That made me so uncomfortable, like I'm not a horror person and that made me so uncomfortable throughout the movie, especially the first mission with Maki when that giant one just breaks out of the building and then she comes out of its gut and just starts punching it like into the ceiling.
00:30:23
Speaker
And then she was like, oh my God, I look so pretty. I'm so beautiful with the blood like all over her and the shrieky voice. And I was like, stop, stop, stop. Make it stop. Make it stop. Please. I don't like this at all.
00:30:35
Speaker
Yeah, the curses are bizarre. They take all the humanity out of them, like those first little three with the one eye and the big open mouth running at it. It was just, and that was kind of your first experiences. Sometimes we're like, wear me or put me on or something like that. It's just like unbuttoning itself like a jacket and the chunks came. I was like, Ew, why? What is this? Oh, welcome to the uncomfort zone. No, it's,
00:31:03
Speaker
It's bizarre. I really don't know what else to say. Like, I don't even want to compare these to demons. Demons are nice people looking things. These are just cursed images. It reminded me of Bleach. Oh, yeah. That show and what those villains were like. I mean, again, I've only watched like the first part of the Soul Society like four times and never made it past that.
00:31:28
Speaker
Yeah, bleach is just a little weird because like they still have form to them. Whereas this is just anything can be thrown at you and you're just not prepared for what the next one's gonna look like. Yeah, compress bleach into movies. I'll watch that in a heartbeat. Yeah, so that school scene was this. It made me uncomfortable. But it kind of what latched me when I was like, all right, I'm sold on the series. What do we have next?
00:31:53
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's good to know that you are fully in and I'm not just dragging you through it. But there is the dark motifs that this movie really had going as you reminding me that it was a school specifically, that like, they were children that were taken and turned into these curses. Like, that is so, so messed up. Like, where does that come from in an author's head? I always have to wonder what these kinds of things. I think it comes down to kind of like,
00:32:24
Speaker
I don't want to say religion, but like...
00:32:28
Speaker
Japanese history on a mythical slash religious background. Yeah, like the reasons of why like kids go missing and stuff like that. And then like, you know, watch other shows that get into like the gritty parts of it, or you talk to some people who are from the culture, and you just kind of understand that it just it really does come down to shitty people. And that's why kids and women and things go missing. Oh, my gosh, it's things. I'm so sorry.
00:32:59
Speaker
Yeah, so it's like it's it definitely crossed my mind of like how much of this is like dwelling into a culture that I'm not fully aware of and how many is it kind of like, yeah, we still have people missing in Japan on a regular basis, but uh, can't quite blame monsters anymore.
Demons and Curses in Japanese Anime
00:33:16
Speaker
Yeah, this is a whole other part of the conversation. And I, I was just kind of saying things as they came to mind, because I have talked to my lovely partner is actually Japanese. So I've kind of asked her this question before, of, you know, why in anime, are there very often demon different things? And she has said it comes from the culture, it comes from the way that they look at, you know, mythical things, the afterlife, exactly, like you said, it's just,
00:33:42
Speaker
It's still crazy to think that these things are happening and that we can write stories around them because you know i wrote one of my papers freshman year about the background of werewolves being based in european things of like guys would go off at night and do crazy things they be like i turned into a werewolf and.
00:34:00
Speaker
It's very similar. I could come up with 100 examples. But as you mentioned it, it's like, yeah, it's really just us coming up with ways to mask what is going on in reality. And it's, it's crazy to say that it's going on. But it was just itching at the back of my brain of like, this should be said at some point almost. But maybe the reason that I I wanted to say it on the podcast is because it was a thought that was going through my mind while I was in the theater.
00:34:28
Speaker
So it's like their portrayal of the situation of people going missing and this being this issue of like kids not making it home from an elementary school actually had me like recollecting stories that I've heard from other people who have lived in that part of the world. It's just like, hmm, demons, curses, you say.
00:34:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's crazy. But especially from a modern thing of like, this didn't come out in the 80s and 90s, which isn't that long ago. This came out this year, like this is a very modern story. So
00:35:07
Speaker
Always keeping that I just said it wasn't that long ago. I was also born in the nineties, making us both feel as young as we possibly can scoots. That's why I also said the eighties wasn't that long ago. It's fine. Well, I'm glad I could get some laughter back before we just completely fell off. But yeah, I'm excited to see what was that?
00:35:36
Speaker
I wonder why. I'm kind of disappointed that we don't see these characters right off the bat. But I do want to watch it.
00:35:42
Speaker
I mean, they replace them with other fantastic characters. Like like I said, both this movie and the TV show are very character driven. I'll give you the spoiler. Gojo is still a main part of the TV show. And that's awesome for everyone who got to enjoy Gojo as he was might be one of my favorite characters across all of it.
00:36:06
Speaker
That's what I caught on because my friend who was sitting next to me that had seen it would be like, like as soon as he popped up, he was like, Yeah, like he was he knew what was about to happen. And I'm just like, Oh, I'm even more intrigued now. But like, when when Rika finally moved on to the afterlife,
00:36:25
Speaker
my buddy was like, Oh, man, he got nerfed bad. So then I was like, so this guy does show up, but he doesn't have this level of power. So all this training that we've seen in this is literally just for this. Okay, I'm intrigued. What's going on with this? Yeah, it's it's so hard to like, keep it to myself, because there are things that I know that I'm like, trying not to
00:36:48
Speaker
actually say. But yeah, no, anyone who I'm glad to know that you got to enjoy Gojo as well. Like it wasn't just someone who knew all of the story that we get going forward that you also walked out of that theater like this is a cool guy. I like this guy. Yeah, like the deductive reasoning part of it was cool too. It's like he's very show off. Why is he not on the front line just like teleports to with the guys back home?
00:37:13
Speaker
Yeah, his power is just a morph. And that even more of like ghetto saying like, wow, you actually like sent two kids. It's like, oh, no, I knew you wouldn't have killed other people. So even if it was near death, you didn't actually kill him. I knew you wouldn't actually kill him. I was like, oh, that's, that's quite the gamble. You know, when you're dealing with curses like this and super strong people, we take gambles, you know?
00:37:39
Speaker
It's just what happens. You're their teacher. You might sacrifice a student or two occasionally. It's fine.
00:37:46
Speaker
And I think because I haven't seen the show before, and the Panda was the only one that I recognized from artwork and promotional stuff, whenever they were in near-death situations, it was actual stakes for me, because I had no idea if they were in the series or not, right? They could have just died in this, and that would have been something that no one's ever seen before. I didn't ask any questions. I didn't look anything up. So the intensity of, oh my god, are Maki Toge and Panda about to die?
00:38:16
Speaker
I don't know what happens in the show. Are they in it? Is this actually the end for them? So I think that's one of the small benefits that I had as somebody who didn't see it as like the stakes, not like stakes. And then I was extra scared for Maki when Yuto was trying to get Rika to heal all of them. And she just grabs Maki and she's like, no, it's not fair.
00:38:35
Speaker
And it's like, hey, I'm ordering you. Don't hurt her. It's like, do you hate me? Do you still love me right now? I was like, stop. No, I don't like this. Oh, this is going to be so uncomfortable. And it's not like a bad writing thing. It's just like they did a good job at making me uncomfortable. I was cringing the whole time. Yeah, it was weird because it's like, is she a child, but she's older, but like loves him. Uh, how is this supposed to make me feel?
00:39:03
Speaker
It redeemed itself. And it was so sweet. And she was like, I'm glad that I still got to spend like six more years with you. Please don't come see me too soon. I was like, Oh, sweet. I will be fully honest. And I went with a group of like nine or 10 people to the theater. I think I was the only one that cried but I sat there fully in tears just like this is so sweet. They wrote this in like an
00:39:27
Speaker
hour and a half span I went from having no idea who this little girl is to crying as she's saying don't come see me soon I yeah I'm a sucker for that kind of stuff but they drove it home so well of you know how it must have felt and then to find out that he was the one that cursed her to like try and keep her in his life in some capacity was just oh that hurt even more yeah so you were telling me
Critique on English Dub of Jujutsu Kaisen 0
00:39:56
Speaker
off-screen that you thought that the English dub was actually bad? The reason I asked, the reason I asked, there's a point to this. Toge's delivery when he's using his curves was really awesome.
00:40:16
Speaker
does that pan out? Or does that kind of like, it sounded cooler? It was, it was yelling. It was literally just like, you know, if I'm trying to think of one of the words that he used in his Kirch speech, twist, twist, it would literally have just been like, twist.
00:40:38
Speaker
I don't know if that came through or not. I tried to get far away from the mic as to not clip it, but it was literally just like yelling with some amplification. It wasn't anything crazy. Do they have the same effects put on it? Yeah, and part of it is, it's no mystery to those of you who have listened to the show before. I do prefer the sub most of the time when I watch anime just because I feel like there sometimes can be a disconnect between the deliveries of characters.
00:41:02
Speaker
And having watched the whole first half of the show subbed to go to watch this movie dubbed because it's a tiny one room theater in the middle of nowhere we were lucky they even had the movie. So they only had it in the dub like gojo came off as this very.
00:41:20
Speaker
cocky like hey guys i'm here to be your teacher now and that's not the same way that i get the feeling when i watch it in the sub it's much more of a like. I'm cool and confident thank you for you know appreciating what i have to do so there is a lot of that difference i wouldn't say it was bad but the minute i walked out of the theater my main.
00:41:41
Speaker
complaints as we were all kind of giving our roundtable review was about the voice acting specifically that I just didn't feel like some of them hit the mark quite as hard. And like even toge not even using his curse speech, using his, you know, regular just salmon flakes, it just
00:42:00
Speaker
It felt the comedy of it fell flat as well i don't know i don't know quite why it was still funny they use it in such sparing moments that it can be really funny at times but i feel like there would have been a few more laughs out of me had it been delivered with a little bit more. Rounded energy it's weird to describe because he's meant to be monotone but there is still that little bit of difference.
00:42:25
Speaker
I think my biggest comparison to that is in Mugen Train with Ren Goku, because I can watch Demon Slayer in either one just fine. I prefer sub, but dub is fine for me. But when Ren Goku is eating the bento box, and he's saying like, I think it was Umoi? Are you Umoi?
00:42:48
Speaker
Yeah, oh my like the delivery of that was really cool. So when they went to English and he's yelling delicious It's like why would you not just say yum like the delivery of yum? Yum, like that that would deliver a lot but delicious like why would he be yelling delicious on the train after everybody right? So it is the same idea of this is delicious and yum echoing throughout the train. It's like
00:43:16
Speaker
It's about the delivery and I feel that delivery of yum would have been a lot better so it's like I feel like there's an effort to mimic exactly what they're saying when in reality you should be using terminology that works for the delivery of that scene right like even delicious is three syllables but he's animated to japanese which is using like a syllable and a half at that.
00:43:41
Speaker
So I get what you're saying about the delivery not quite being there, and that's why I was curious how close it was with the extra effects of making a command of the curse. Yeah, I mean there's plenty of examples. I think the most prevalent one that we run into is Itadakimasu.
00:43:58
Speaker
That is there's not really even a good way to translate that because it's a general term in Japanese just to say, you know, we appreciate this meal. Thank you for this meal. We don't say that as Americans when we sit down to eat. So when they suddenly translate it to English, it's like, why are they saying that this, you know, some translation of it every time they eat? It's a culture thing. It comes across in a different sense. So there are little things like that. And that's generally part of why I prefer one over the other.
00:44:26
Speaker
And for that example specifically, I feel like even the English speaker should just say ikadakimasu because it is just a Japanese saying.
00:44:35
Speaker
Yes. Like you say bon appetit, whether it's a French thing or an English thing. Why? Because it's a it's a French word. It's a French phrase. Like people listen to it and understand the meaning of it through constant exposure. So you shouldn't be finding the English way to say ikidakimasu. If it's not something we say, you should just say what it is and enlighten your viewership to understand that this is a Japanese culture and a Japanese phrase that's depicting the beginning of eating your meal.
00:45:04
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's a good point because there are, I mean, personally myself, I did not know that that was actually a cultural thing until I had my partner who again is Japanese and was able to explain it to me. I feel like there are so many of us that kind of get lost in the, oh, it's just an English word that they're saying. No, there's a reason they're saying it. There's something behind it. So I kind of agree and I'm surprised that there hasn't been an anime that has decided to leave that in in the English dub. There might be some other reason that we don't know. Yeah.
00:45:33
Speaker
But it has been a really interesting conversation about culture and the way that anime movies are made. This was supposed to be like a 20 minute half hour thing of you and I talking about this movie and it has evolved. I'm sure we talked about the movie for 20 minutes. We're hitting 46 now.
00:45:53
Speaker
I don't want to talk to like, like, I've been wanting to do an interview on the show, but obviously we're not like, popular enough that the big time actors are responding to my Instagram messages. I'm working on it. All right. I'm working. Try to. I tried to. I'm not putting you on anything. Like from my actual account, I've been like, Hey, I'm the host of animation deliberation. You want to be on our show?
00:46:13
Speaker
So that's why I kind of want to talk to like a voice director now too, or like if we could find somebody in like the translating verse and be like, why do you choose the words and the phrases that you do and ask questions like that? Like have you, would you have gone in a different direction? Does the market call for something different? Like we make it bigger. Yeah. Cause I give us more reviews, leave us more five star reviews. So these people acknowledge us and don't forget the Instagram too. Cause apparently that's how we communicate with people.
00:46:39
Speaker
No, because that's a really good question. And when you're talking about something like this thing that I have with Gojo, where I feel like it was a different vibe, was that the director or was that the voice actor specifically said, I'm going to put my spin on this? You know, I would love to have that information out there because there's no fault to the voice actor. They brought a performance that I think was good. And if I didn't necessarily have this comparison point to be like, oh, I like that other one better, I would still have had nothing but good things to say. I just.
00:47:09
Speaker
Might not have liked the character as much I think that was the biggest reason that it was notable as I actually like kind of dislike Gojo in the dub Whereas I love him in the sub. So there are those in intricacies that definitely go into the industry and hopefully someday we will kind of get more more information about that. Yeah Yeah, I guess as I start the show I'll watch it in the in the sub but I have plenty of work to do before then and
00:47:40
Speaker
Yeah, we do because, you know, we got Young Justice coming back this week. We have the finale of Attack on Titan coming up. So this, I don't know when it's going to come out, but our goal is to talk about this again later. I totally meant that, like, I have editing and stuff to do before I can watch anything tonight. I know, but I was trying to make it professional.
00:48:02
Speaker
Well, there was a segue here that, uh, when we do get to it as of now, it's your friends that wanted to know more about us. So I'm trying to give a peek into the life of a different photographer. Well, you don't want to talk to the life of a, uh, a business student that's jet lagged and tired. So, uh, yeah, in my little segue, when we do get to Jujutsu Kaisen, the series,
00:48:32
Speaker
We're going to try and divide it up into two, I think. Episodes 1 through 13 and then 14 through 24 is how I currently have it set to split.
00:48:43
Speaker
So you can give straight answers on watching something. I can give you straight answers on many different things, but... It's not this movie. Not this movie. I'm an analytical guy. You know this. Everyone knows this. That's why they listen. I can't even ask you this question. No, I can't. How can I ask you this question without spoiling anything?
00:49:06
Speaker
On the last episode of Attack on Titan that's coming out next week, when that concludes, there are still nine chapters of the manga that haven't been accounted for. So I have heard about this. Many of the listeners who know. What are you thinking? I've talked about this at length with a great listener of the show, Jillian Kurtik. She helped us divide it up. Also, Zuhair, you were saying her name wrong for like four weeks, but whatever.
00:49:34
Speaker
You were in a different time zone where I can ask for a correction. I had to throw that out there on her behalf. I don't know. There has yet to be an article that's come out to be like, hey, we're going to get an hour and a half long finale. And I was thinking they might surprise us with that. And that's why there's this one week gap.
00:49:54
Speaker
But I think there's potential for a movie, maybe, for Attack on Titan. I would love it, but also I think the entire anime community would lose its mind if we thought this whole time, it's finally gonna end. We're at the final season, we're on the home stretch, and hey, we have to wait another year.
00:50:13
Speaker
to get the actual conclusion of Attack on Titan. Buddy, they wouldn't make us wait a year. They'd make us wait four years for a movie. I know, I was trying to be generous with that. But it also would not surprise me because we talked about way back when I was last talking about Attack on Titan with you guys that the manga just finished like maybe a month or two ago if I have my timeline correctly.
00:50:42
Speaker
So their turnaround time for animation on that last half of the final season was not a lot. So maybe that is the wild card that they're holding in the back pocket is final season means the final season of the show. But guess what? We're gonna have a movie now. I would love it. I would hate it. I don't know what to think necessarily about it. But
00:51:04
Speaker
Because there are some people are saying that could be a part three as well, but it's it's one of those things because of the god awful communication that they've been providing the last 12 years. If I do not see a movie trailer at the end of a 20 minute episode, I will be mad. Like you can expect the beginning of our next episode to maybe super mad making the intro and just getting straight into how pissed I am that I don't know what's coming next. This is ridiculous. It's been 12 years.
00:51:33
Speaker
And here I was thinking I was going to be the one that roars like a titan upon my return. It might just be you in an angry rage. We will. I'm warning everybody right now. I will start off that episode in a super sour mood. If I have no if there is a cliffhanger to the end of this episode with no clear indication of what is coming next.
00:51:56
Speaker
Yeah, it's and it's so interesting because fly over to map of studios just to give them the finger and I know they've only done the last season not the rest, but this is like irresponsible and a disservice to the fans.
00:52:09
Speaker
Yeah, because I am currently watching My Hero Academia on your recommendation. And I literally just finished season three last night. And at the end of that season, there's a big banner that says continuing in season four, you know, we're working on it now. Even that would be enough to tie me over is just some banner that says, hey, we're doing part three.
00:52:32
Speaker
It's gonna be a while. Like, I don't need a date. You know, we've been waiting on Young Justice for a couple months without a clear date until very recently. I'm okay knowing that it's coming. Young Justice had articles that said springtime. Okay, I have an idea of when it's coming. Those were all skeptical. I don't think they were ever officially like from Warner Brothers.
00:52:55
Speaker
But no, they were on like the official pages saying coming back screen springtime and then eventually we got a date for My Hero Academia and Demon Slayer. Like there are news articles that say, hey, they confirmed this time. You know it's coming out in a year or it'll say like, oh, no, we've had a delay. Let me know. There's a freaking delay. It's fine. If this movie is going to come out next year, have
00:53:17
Speaker
something that you said like you said at the banner like Attack on Titan true finale movie coming out in theaters 2023 that's fine I'll be annoyed that I have to wait but I have some indication of where I have to wait like for the MCU fans could you imagine if it was like you don't know when you're gonna get the movie like there might be a Doctor Strange 2 you don't know when and then like four years later it's like oh by the way it's coming out in theaters next month like
00:53:48
Speaker
Yeah, so it's no frustrating. There is a question here and you might not know the answer because you are not in the zeitgeist. Great state of mind in this conversation. Great state of mind. This is amazing discourse. When season one or season four, part one rather ended.
00:54:07
Speaker
did we get any sort of part two is coming at this time we're getting a part two just now that it's mapa was there any sort of announcement for this final season were they a little bit better or was it still radio silence i don't know if you know the answer to this or not
00:54:23
Speaker
Because I wasn't I wasn't watching season four on a weekly basis. We binged it all together. I mean, you went ahead of me a couple of times. Thanks for that. But what do you want? It's a good show to be holding the tea cup that you have right now with that sentence. I can I see the bag. I know it's not coffee. Of course it's.
00:54:44
Speaker
So yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure if it just took a mid-season break or if it, I don't think there was any like indication in the episode. I just remember one day my buddy telling me, Oh my God, the new opener is really good. And I was like, season's not open yet. And maybe because they specifically called it part one when it was coming out, we're like, okay, I guess there's a part two.
00:55:10
Speaker
But no one assumed, oh, that could mean multiple parts. They just assumed part one, part two. That could have been it. There's so many question marks around it. But yeah, I don't know how to feel about that. I just don't. The fact there hasn't been an article that has come out that has said, hey, guess what? We're getting a extra, extra long episode this upcoming week.
00:55:33
Speaker
My hopes are getting very slim for that. No, all the freaking articles or we don't know what's going on because the manga's done, but there's nine chapters not accounted for her. I need to start writing articles if it's that easy. Yeah, I guess.
00:55:47
Speaker
I'm kidding journalists, you do a great job. I was just just making up because if no one knows what's going on, I could also pretend I don't know what's going on. But what's the one in the Oh, wait, you're not on Facebook that much. But in the stranded panda chat, there's like this one news source that's always like shunned on. And I think it's a coming soon.net.
00:56:12
Speaker
because they just write about everything or every speculation. And like whenever somebody posts something in there from that source, like you guys know if this is real, it's like, oh, you must be new here. You do not want to get me started right now on this podcast about some of these news sources, because I have some strong thoughts, because my Google News Feed loves to like, throw me in different directions. And it's just, yeah,
00:56:39
Speaker
I have my ones that I won't list off by name for their sake that I have some serious problems with. They post a little too much, but CBR Comic Book Resources is kind of one of the ones that… They're all right. They do post a lot, but they're usually somewhat factual about their information. They like to write the same thing 17 times.
00:57:01
Speaker
It's also one
00:57:20
Speaker
They literally said something about Moon Knight episode four. I saw an article headline and it's in the headline, like what might happen in the fourth episode. And I'm like, the show comes out next week. I don't want to know about episode four yet. In that case, I can't really blame them because Marvel Studios hasn't been chilling out with all the promotion. Like, stop putting episode clips out. I don't need to see it. Every now and then I'm like, shut up Marvel. I'm about to unfollow everything Marvel at this point. Like, it's ridiculous.
00:57:50
Speaker
Seriously, Marvel has got news worth knowing. Matt and Jeff will tell me at the Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast. That's all I need to know. It's true. It's true. Well, that was a lovely rant. Yeah. If you're still with us, thank you. Jiu Jitsu guys. And if you're a fan, let us know if you've seen the movie. Let us know. Animation deliberation podcast at gmail.com. And also follow us. Animation deliberation on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter.
00:58:19
Speaker
I'm going to go ahead and cut this off before we find something else to rage about. Clearly, Andrew and I haven't talked to each other in a while, so we're making up for a lot of loss. Lot of loss time. Tune in next week. Stay whelmed. Bye. It's been a while. Muscle, muscle.
00:58:38
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Animation Deliberation Podcast, a proud member of the Strandepanda Network. If you would like to contact us, you can email AnimationDeliberationPodcast at gmail.com or follow us on Twitter at AnimationDelib1. For this and other great shows, you can visit Strandepanda.com or join the great community that is the Strandepanda Chat Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash spchat. Tune in next time and remember, stay well.
00:59:06
Speaker
Sing along if you know the words. One, two, three, it's time for animation, deliberation. A celebration and a conversation of our favorite action animated series, yeah. You want to try again? You mixed two of them up. What did I say? You mixed conversation, celebration out. You said celebration and conversation. Conversation and celebration. Oh, jeez. Okay, we'll take it one more time. It's going great.
00:59:36
Speaker
Just leave this in at the end here as a little... Sing along if you know the words. One, two, three, it's time for animation, deliberation. A something and a something else. Oh my God. A conversation and a celebration. Am I wrong? Because that's what I thought I said last time. You mixed it up the first time. A conversation and a celebration. Yes. Oh my gosh.
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