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Indiana Jones- Emotionally, We Are Laying Down
28 Plays4 months ago
Friends, this one was a bit FRAUGHT. While as kids we loved and delighted in the adventures of Mr. Henry Jones Jr (alias Indiana Jones) it's hard to ignore...so much in these movies. Join us for an unmoored traipse through the original trilogy with only a brief cameo by Temple of Doom because you know why. We don't really need to say it.
This is about as un-researched as it gets. And in that way we have upheld our promise to you.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082971/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_in_0_q_raiders
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087469/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_in_0_q_temple%2520of%2520doom
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097576/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_in_0_q_last%2520cru
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Transcript
Introduction to the Hot Set Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm Melinda. I'm Ariel. This is Hot Set, the movie podcast about costume design.
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome back. It's us, your favorite non-academic friend. We're here.
Indiana Jones Trilogy: A Millennial Nostalgia
00:00:30
Speaker
We are here to talk about another art piece but o that crafted millennials.
00:00:41
Speaker
And why am I a giggle in? It's because we'll get into it. But we are talking today about Indiana Jones. And just imagine the Reading Rainbow rainbow, Indiana Jones, Indiana Jones, the trilogy, the original trilogy, because that was what existed when most millennials were coming out. And we're also really ignoring Temple of Doom. I'm just going to be super um Straight about it. I didn't watch it. yeah I watched a little bit. I watched some. You invested most of it, like half of it at least.
00:01:21
Speaker
which Let's give you your flowers for that. I just wanted to rewatch the opening scene because I was like, Oh, there's some fun gowns in the opening scene.
Personal Indiana Jones Experiences
00:01:32
Speaker
There's some tuxedos. So, but that's where I, I'm getting ahead of myself there. I, I can justify it because even though I knew it was a trilogy as a kid, I didn't own Temple of New Mon VHS.
00:01:48
Speaker
I had Raiders and Last Crusade, so that those are my Indiana John movies yeah that I watched ceaselessly and I kidnapped and trapped my husband in the kitchen last night and then told him about all the other movies that I had on on my regular cycle. very patient listening to it because I'm sure I've told them a million times.
Impact of Iconic Trilogies on a Generation
00:02:10
Speaker
But back in the days of yore when we had the VHS tapes it days and were and you didn't have five bucks to go to video droid or silver screen video or whatever your local ah rental place was, even the library, if you couldn't like walk or catch a bus, if you had VHS tapes at home, we did not have cable. So you were trapped.
00:02:33
Speaker
You had the media that you had. Yeah, that was it. and so Like a library of antiquity, where everything's written on a papyrus scroll. You had to blow the dust off of it before you put it into the playing the chess player. Literally. You just watch things, and especially if you were crazy. I'm sure there are other words for it that are um diagnoses. You're crazy like me. You had a system where it was a loop.
00:03:00
Speaker
like 12 or 13 things that you would just like it with a watch Raiders. Yeah. It's like the next one on the shelf. I'm watching Last Crusade and now I'm going to the the ah original Star Wars trilogy. I was going to say Nexus Star Wars. Yeah. And then from there I have all these
Re-watching Classics: Challenges and Changes
00:03:17
Speaker
things. We grew up with the most essential trilogies, I think, like being available to watch because we grew up with Back to the Future, we grew up with Star Wars, and we grew up with Indiana Jones trilogy. And it was just like, we what else could you want? We grew up at a pretty neat time for media where there was like, we knew we were at like the threshold where we knew kind of pop culture information.
00:03:43
Speaker
that just like trickled down because things were heading towards CG and other forms of animation, but had come from so many different things. As we saw in the mummy. Yeah.
00:03:57
Speaker
ah
00:04:01
Speaker
It was like we were there for the transition from like, you know, old Disney animation to the Lion King and like the different styles and it was a big deal. So it was just like it was really cool to have these things on lock and to kind of have them be our myths, you know, like yeah they were our myths and they were really fun. And that's really crazy because both of us.
00:04:27
Speaker
Struggle busts the hell out of watching these movies. Listen, we don't need to talk about that. What's the TikTok trend right now? We listen, but we don't judge. That's what we're asking you right now.
Temple of Doom: Criticism and Controversy
00:04:41
Speaker
Start listening. Please don't ask me whether I've watched Last Crusade in preparation for this episode. I promise you I've seen it like 50 times in total.
00:04:55
Speaker
I've seen it so many times. I've seen them so many times. Temple of Doom. No, I've seen that I think once or twice all the way through. So I don't even remember. I think I've seen that one probably like a handful of times, but I don't think I had any of them. I don't think we owned any of them when I was a kid. So I don't know how I've seen them so much other than just like watching TNT on a Saturday afternoon, you know, like I think it's gone.
00:05:25
Speaker
they were on.
Portrayal of Nazis in Cinema
00:05:27
Speaker
And like for me now, Temple of Doom, the most important thing that came out of it, two things, Kae Kwa Hong and Kae Haae Kwan, sorry, and his relationship with Harrison Ford, which I think is super sweet. Beautiful. Yeah. Because Harrison Ford has always like been like, hey. I know. And like, not the most warm and fuzzy man, Harrison Ford. No. In a way that I think is very complicated and we'll get there.
00:05:53
Speaker
but but Like, short round. Kae Kwon is just, like, freaking amazing and I've always loved him and I'm so glad that he is having this, like, renaissance right now. I think it's, like, way overdue because, things like, we knew.
00:06:12
Speaker
You know, we saw him as a child actor. And we were like, come on now. Goonies, come on. And because he had, he was like a little inspector gadget. He had all these things. But yeah, Temple of Jim Hart. So we're just gonna breeze over that. I mean, I think we're kind of
Complex Relationships in Indiana Jones
00:06:30
Speaker
going to breeze over the whole thing. And like three yeah this is a lot for one episode. So like it's a lot. It will not be. And it's also like costume wise. It's why we've been kind of like skating around doing like yeah real
00:06:45
Speaker
costumey, like normal everyday kind of costumey things that aren't like making a statement because right this series, the costumes are not, I mean they are making statements, all costumes do, but it's different than like Star Wars. They're not they're not like flashy, they're not, like it's not a fantasy, well it is a fantasy, but it's not in the genre of fantasy ah specifically.
00:07:10
Speaker
There's not very many moments where the story is like, look at this crazy costume. do Like that kind of stuff just doesn't really happen in these movies. yeah And usually when it does, it's, this is what a Nazi look like, Nazi bad. So amazing that so many missed that lesson, but also- I for the days.
00:07:32
Speaker
weird. eat Well, okay. And sometimes we just hire a white person to play the person of color in these movies. But I yearn for the days when it was like, you could put a Nazi on screen and that was shorthand for bad. I miss that time when we could all agree about that.
00:07:52
Speaker
Those days are are not here anymore. And I think let's talk about it. That's, I think, what is feeding into our and about our watch is because, like, yeah, the tenor of our ah far ah talking about movies has changed a little bit post-election. And I think that's pretty fair. It's not a good it's not a good thing. And if you disagree, there's the door. Goodbye. This episode will self-destruct.
00:08:22
Speaker
It was satisfying having this character boot Nazis like in the face constantly and they blow them up and all that stuff. I would smart them because they're so dumb. love I love it. They can't shoot. They can't drive. They can't tell when something's hot. something All they know how to
Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones
00:08:40
Speaker
do is goose stab and lick boots. Stupid. That was cathartic in a way. yeah I have a slightly slightly complicated relationship with watching Harrison Ford. Okay. So Harrison Ford, amazing actor. I love that he's not soft and gooey as a human being. Me too. Because he is one, this like sarcastic, pretty funny guy, like pretty famously funny guy. And he has just like, it's great, like make fun of you sense of humor. Unfortunately, he reminds me of a person formerly known as my grandfather. Okay.
00:09:22
Speaker
And like my grandfather, they they carried themselves very similarly. Harrison Ford, much more handsome. But like the the voices were very similar. the way like Literally, the way that man carried himself was very much like Harrison Ford.
00:09:40
Speaker
And my grandfather was, I'm going to say older. So I don't think it was like a concentrated effort because I don't think he gave a shit about like Star Wars and stuff. Which is very Harrison Ford of him. Yes.
00:09:57
Speaker
But there's always this hump that I have to get over, this hill I have to climb to be like, that's not Batman. That's hard. That's a tough thing to have to overcome.
Indy and Marion: Dynamics and Dialogue
00:10:10
Speaker
I'm sorry for that. Yeah, because that's not Harrison Ford's fault.
00:10:13
Speaker
so smile' vault at all. It's not, but it if is a fact, you know? Yeah, that I have to squash this shit down. And so I was like, Oh, okay, let's get over that. with And then I was like, I can't watch this today. I can't watch this right now without the You're a grave robber, son. You're a robber. I mean, it's so much of like what we talked about in The Mummy. like Please refer to that episode for like a lot of our yeah not enthusiasm for this time of of history when white people just were traipsing around, just desecrating stuff, stealing, subjugating people, and it was horrible.
00:10:57
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like, it's very heavily romanticized here. And like, I love Harrison Ford's performance, but also on top of that, and this is another thing that made me like, and I'm sure that I could have like, you know, more uplifting things to say if I was not post, if we were not existing in the moment that we are existing. right But I do think it's fair, right, to say that Harrison Ford, not Harrison Ford. So sorry. Indiana Jones.
00:11:26
Speaker
It's a little bit of a pig. A little bit? A little bit of a pig. I mean, yeah. And in Raiders. When Marion whips around and is like, you son of a bitch. I was like, girl, yes. Take him down. Take
Marion's Character and Costumes
00:11:44
Speaker
him down. and down That why she made it to Dial of Destiny because she is real. Their relationship is complicated. Sometimes people's relationships are complicated. And so that felt real. But it also was like,
00:12:03
Speaker
Like, I can't quit you, energy. I know. Of course, she's like, I can't quit you. And he's like, I know. Just ridiculous. Like, that scene, that conversation between the two of them, I feel like my fight or flight response, like, rising. And the only response that I have is fight. When he says, I did what I did, you don't have to be happy about it. I was like,
00:12:31
Speaker
I know she says before or after, I was a child. I was a child. And he says, you knew what you were doing. And I'm like, kick him. Kick him in the face. Hop up on that bomb. Throw him in that fire. Right in the face. Let that Nazi with that hot poker mutilate his beautiful face. Yeah, 100%. Let it go.
00:12:56
Speaker
And I loved the way that Marion was dressed because she's running a bar. Yes. In this like cold, cold place. She's obviously, maybe not obviously, but it feels like she's run away or like removed herself from other places so that she can grieve her father's passing and just take her time. She says that she's stuck there. Yeah. It sounded like maybe that was the last place he took her and then he died and she was like, I don't have any money.
00:13:26
Speaker
Oh, there we go. And then she's running a bar and like saving that money in the store. She's like, she's turning it into a pro act. Like she's, she's taking control of herself. Yeah. in that And we're like, we're getting familiar with like, and I think, yeah, instead of like running away, she's taking advantage of being stuck to be like, well, I'm disengaged from some other shit. So like, I'm just going to take my time. I'm going to drink. Like, I'm going to make money and then I'm going to get the fuck out of here. Yeah. But she's wearing,
00:13:54
Speaker
this like really beautiful shirt, like an an open kind of shirt that seems to have like some some detailing on it. and It's very blousy. She's wearing trousers and she's got her hair back. I was like, yeah yes to the hair back because I'm so sick of all these action sequences that happen with women with their hair flip-flopping all over the place. and It's like, no, having your hair in your face is such an annoyance. It's like a person with long hair,
00:14:23
Speaker
will show you their gorgeous locks and thank you. But they will also, when they're working, be like, this is annoying. I'm going to put this back, which is why braids exist and why updos exist and buns and things. And like seeing her health codes didn't exist then, but it is a health care violation. So, yes. know And so like she has these little twists and like her hair's back. And it's like, beautiful you know, she she's tell she's showing us the way that she is dressed. is that she's a woman who knows that she's beautiful and like enjoys the little details of getting ready, but that she also doesn't have to go the full nine yards all the time. just like She's just a practical person who's like, yeah, I do this because I know that like I can probably get some tips too, but like I'm not going to be wearing a dress while I'm
00:15:13
Speaker
the bar back at this place because it's cold. It makes no sense, yeah. These guys are rough, like I need to be able to kick some ass if I need to. Yes. And drink them under the table. And drink them under the table.
Costumes as Character Symbolism
00:15:28
Speaker
And not saying that you can't kick somebody's ass in a dress, but it can get in your way. Yeah. And that trend continues with her. We see her in a lot of more practical. We see her in pants a lot, which considering it's 1930s, that's not a given for that time frame.
00:15:48
Speaker
it's It's very much people were pissed at Catherine Hepburn for, like, wearing pants. I think it's like a photographer said that she was, like, disgusting because she wore pants and crossed her legs. right And she was like, tough shit, you can get out of my house if you don't want to take these bottles. I've seen some interview with her where some woman asks her, like, do you do you ever wear a skirt? And she's like, I think I own one. And the woman's like, why don't you try wearing it? And she just goes, I'll wear it to your funeral.
00:16:17
Speaker
like ahlaud Like just mind your own business. Yeah, for half the movie, Marianne is like an individual person who has agency over what she's wearing over her body. And then for the second half of the movie, she's being dressed exclusively by men. And like, and you would argue in the way oh in such a creepy way. And you can argue that when she's in the Where are they when they're with Sala and his family? They are, I believe they are supposed to be in Cairo. I don't think it was filmed there, but I believe they are supposed to be in Cairo. So we're in mythical Cairo and she's wearing cute outfits there. And you could argue that she might've borrowed some of those things from Sala's wife. Yeah. Or like they gave her, options she bought them maybe, yeah you know, yeah. And so like she's got,
00:17:08
Speaker
cute stuff there that's lovely. And then, yeah, the second half, she's been dressed by Baloch, the French ah Indiana Jones. The French creep. You can tell he's bad because he's French.
00:17:25
Speaker
And he has For some reason, people who can source flouncy ladies gowns on the go. And so he puts her in a way. And he knows her size, which I'm like, okay, King.
00:17:39
Speaker
Which, like, that was a thing where people would just look at you and be like, boom, boom, boom, the three measurements. And it's like, Jesus Christ. And so, like, he just slaps her in this, like, really lovely dress. Okay. But it's, like, obviously meant for her to be looked at because, like, Indi has left her in captivity and, like, he's like, I can't. For you cuz then I'll come looking after me so I have to get my shit done and you just gotta figure it out and her figuring out is like great I'm gonna put on this dress and get drunk and try to drink this French idiot under like tableable maybe stab him if I have to with a butter knife. like And then after that the pirate captain.
00:18:19
Speaker
yeah her um Basically like not an English name. but No, but it's like, I mean, it's like the 1930s and I feel like yeah if I remember my clothing history, which is questionable, there is a lot of like there was a there was like a lot of fashionable stuff was like a sheer dress with a solid slip underneath so that you're like seeing the slip and it's a little bit, you know, a little tantalizing in that way. And it's like, she's wearing that one layer, the slip layer yeah is what it looks like.
00:18:53
Speaker
Yeah, because like she she put it on to go to bed, I feel like, at the end of the day. And um and then she's stuck in it because they get boarded. And she's in that for the rest of the movie. And it feels like she's in it with like no under layers, no shoes, no jacket, no outer layers. And it's like, we couldn't throw her a sweater.
00:19:18
Speaker
not to cover her up, but you guys are There was time when he gave her that dress. He was like, go make out with your man. And she's like, okay.
00:19:31
Speaker
Just hand her a pile of things and then she could at least have them at hand and be like, I gotta grab this when they're tossing me under a submarine. Are you telling me there's no like teenage crew member with an extra pair of shoes that she could have i borrowed? Come on. It's just like, you're on the ocean. It's not notoriously necessarily warm everywhere.
00:19:51
Speaker
all the time Everyone else seems to be in layers and layers. All the men are in
Impractical Costumes in Action Films
00:19:55
Speaker
layers. So we couldn't throw her something? A robe? No. I was just like mad. Like she looked beautiful. The actress looked beautiful. Absolutely. That is not the question. That's not the question. It was just like now she's become the Mary Sue and she's she is kind of Mary Sue like throughout because she's like, yeah ah but it's like obviously she's a woman who's capable of taking care of herself. We're being told that we're not always being shown it because like she has carried herself through the world and like we're getting that at the introduction and then they peel it away. Like they're like, you get it.
00:20:34
Speaker
Now we don't have to agree anymore by the end of the movie. And it's like, don't do that. But it's something that we still see that in movies constantly. Oh, perfect example is one of those new Jurassic Park movies. It's literally what I was thinking of. to cop yeah With the high heels. Bryce Dallas Howard. And Bryce Dallas Howard.
00:20:55
Speaker
You can argue all day long. I think we've complained we had developed that look. And I'm gonna complain about it for like two more seconds. You can tell me all day about how you've advocated for your character to be wearing those heels. But you made the wrong choice. Because, I'm sorry, ah her ankles would have... Just snapped
Indy's Costumes: Practicality and Symbolism
00:21:12
Speaker
like a little twig, immediately. ...cased by primordial animals. Yeah. and i would I would have taken my chances completely barefoot. Barefoot. 100%. Which is a choice. It's like being barefoot is a very vulnerable physically. Yeah, because you're stepping on every choice.
00:21:33
Speaker
Yeah, like I was just rewatching Die Hard. That was an interesting choice. in them And they explore that very well. But it's like, you're not going to purposefully hold yourself back when you're running for your life. Do you know what I mean? that like No. And there are people who are incredible in <unk>dible and high heels. I'm not going to negate that. But you would at least maybe break off the heel.
00:21:56
Speaker
Yes. And keep the shoe. I don't know.
Colonialism and Ethics in Indiana Jones
00:21:59
Speaker
I think if you if you're so concerned about wearing your high heels while you're being chased by a dinosaur, I think the movie at least owes me you being eaten by that dinosaur. You owe it to me. That's the only outcome that I'll accept. I don't know. Just some reason why.
00:22:16
Speaker
you know, any reason why. Yeah. But it instead becomes like, that's not good decision making. At least I don't think so. And if you do, that's creative. and And I really love that that dress that Belloc gives Marion, that white dress. I think it's you know it's it's a great choice because it is so stupid and impractical and it could only be chosen by a man who is wanting to sexualize this woman in a way that she does not agree with and is not on board for. And I love that.
Cultural Impact of Indiana Jones
00:22:48
Speaker
i like the The way it gets like distressed and ruined throughout like the course of its life in the movie is like well done, but it's like it still makes me mad. Yeah. While watching this, I was definitely reminded of the mummy because Evie is also wearing a nightgown for the end of the movie. and I was like, I don't no no I think we could do something else. I think we can.
00:23:15
Speaker
I believe in us. I don't know why, but I do. And I'm sure there are people who've been like, we could do something else. And then the director's like, nah, we're going to do this. And it's like, oh, okay. No, but how else will everyone know that she's hot? I know. We just can't tell when she's gone.
00:23:30
Speaker
Different types of clothes on because people have different personalities. That's really hard to say That was one thing that I always enjoy rewatching any Indiana Jones movie is like the difference between like the sort of split personality between like Professor Indy Okay, and I explore Indy and I like I love how they do that. I think that looks love that I think that's one of those subtle like superpowers of costuming because you're showing the different personalities of this person not personalities, but the different ways that he is seeking to be received and And like, let's skip around. So Raiders, right? we've We've started with. And we do see him in his college class lecturing and he's got like a tie and like the whole three piece suit. He's got glasses. The round glasses. And so like the round glasses are such a specific choice because we haven't hit the like serial killer glasses shape of the 70s. right or even like i feel like we haven't even really hit the like half moon i feel like yeah so it's like his glasses are not like the the almost like victorian 1910s like tiny circles yeah they're practical but i'm sure that there are other glass shaped
00:24:51
Speaker
that are rounded at the time that were not so soft. And, but anyways, like having the soft shape is like such a great choice. Cause they also didn't need to give him glasses, but they did. And it immediately softens him. And I think I wrote a note about it in Last Crusade. and Um, did did it today where the hell is it? Oh, okay. So in last crusade he's again wearing a three-piece suit but it's like a gray like he's always when we're seeing him as a professor it's like a brown or a gray so it's not like really super exciting yeah it's it's just like normie an everyday clean normie suit but then in last crusade he's in a bow tie which like really extras up the himbo of it all because he's got those rounded soft glasses he's got the bow tie and his students are all in love with him
00:25:45
Speaker
and he just like they made him look so soft and like just almost makes him look like a bumbling kind of professor. Yeah, like the indoor cat. It's it's the indoor cat. It's very much the exact opposite of what we're seeing with his cosplay because we find out And last we're saying that he's cosplaying because his entire look is ripped off this guy who like blew his mind when he was a teenager, his first nemesis. it's so cool I actually really didn't need that. like i know so i I know people like criticize some of that like ah establishment in Last Crusade, but like I don't actually need to see him like get his whip in order to understand why he has it. and like I do kind of agree with that criticism that it's sort of like, I don't need to know. It can just be there and that's okay with me, but like it is very cute. so Yeah.
00:26:49
Speaker
Because i I kind of like, like, I understand the criticism, but because it's what I was presented with when I was in an age where I didn't question movies at all, I think it's still kind of that part like remains as something that I never thought about analytically. And so it's like starting Indiana Jones off as River Phoenix.
00:27:09
Speaker
getting oh oh my god But starting him off as River Phoenix in a Boy Scout uniform on a Boy Scout escapade is is pretty great. Like if you're going to introduce that character that way.
00:27:23
Speaker
That's a pretty great way to do it because it's kind of like the indoor cat except that this is like he's a kid and he's learning like knots and how to make fire. Yes. And like like citizen good citizenship. Like I feel like yeah that is like the Boy Scout is a shorthand right now like for being like you're a goody two shoes.
00:27:45
Speaker
Yes. And like, like how I've seen the documentary, so. Well, I mean, like, you know, we can, but that is, that is the message that is being sent. There is a stereotype, yes, yeah of like seeing the Boy Scout and especially in Teddy Roosevelt's Boy Scouts. Like yeah that is an outdoorsman who can survive and like get himself out of situations because he knows all these things about knots.
00:28:11
Speaker
And it's just like, it's such a good shortcut for us knowing who he's going to be. And also seeing that as a kid, he was resourceful, but he was still a kid. Like he didn't, he wasn't born Indiana Jones. He was born a smart kid who and also wasn't like, Oh, well, Jr.
00:28:31
Speaker
just So Henry, because his dad's Henry Jones. yeah yeah henry henry baby henry Henry Jones, Jr. He's quick, he's clever, and he's also like very serious about it. like This is what's right. and it's just I do enjoy then that like He just rips his entire look over that guy and is like, man, you stole that stuff you stole from me back in like such a cool way that I'm going to do it too. like what
00:29:05
Speaker
But I'm going to do it the opposite. I'm going to do it for good question mark. I'm going to do it for the right reasons. which is blaing smart Question mark, question mark. It doesn't really age well. but No, especially not in the day of like, hey, British Museum, give the shit back to the people it belongs to.
00:29:22
Speaker
Well, but they don't they don't know what they have despite the fact that they created it and it has their cultural significance. You know what? Whatever. You know what? Why don't you just swing from that whip a little bit more? It's so fun. It's so fun when you swing from the whip. We're just so bouncing around right now. We might as well just be laying down for this episode. But in both, um they don't know that we're not. I know. Mentally. I am wrapped in a blanket again.
00:29:51
Speaker
Last Crusade and Raiders, we get sailors. We get two different types of sailors. And in Raiders, there's a scene where Marianne and Indy are saying goodbye to Sala and getting on the boat. And there's like a group of sailors behind Sala in frame. And they're like, I don't know, playing dice or talking or something. And Sala, who's like a super supporter of the British Empire,
00:30:17
Speaker
works smart So it's like singing and walks over to these sailors who look like background extras for a 70s, early 80s movie. like it's And not saying that they're their costumes don't work. It's that they also just look like contemporary, which is kind of crazy. And like watching them walk away, you're like, yeah wait a minute.
00:30:45
Speaker
on this is kind of great because also like you do look at men's fashion and men's fashion in the west has run like a wild gamut but for a very long time it hasn't really changed that much like yeah like the basic shapes are there it's just like you you've got to like zoom in look at the details and yeah fabric way details fabric those things change but like the men's suit is an interesting thing to look at because it It has not, it's changed length and you know, but it hasn't like the the social expectation of what you wear while wearing
00:31:26
Speaker
quote unquote men's clothing to like a fancy event, you're expected to wear a suit. And so it's like that expectation is still there. So it's like, I'm sure that some of the stuff that these background sailors are wearing could have been worn in the thirties, but it's also like, you guys look like you're.
00:31:43
Speaker
ah crew. And I'm not mad about it. I'm not mad about it. And it's like, someone walks over to them and he just like, ah but and then walks through them. And I was like, this is a crazy moment. And then in Last Crusade, we get sailors again at the beginning, but these sailors are wearing full on stripey stripes. Like they are like, we're sailors, captain, emos are captain.
00:32:09
Speaker
I was like, ahoy! I was like, we're Oompa Loompas of the Sea. I was like, this is fantastic. Because like these are not things that stand out when you're watching the movie. They're just there and they're not catching your eye. But when you look at them, you're like, look.
00:32:29
Speaker
The variety. I'm liking it. yeah Good for you guys.
00:32:35
Speaker
in ah So we talked about Marion and Raiders and in ah we'll just skip over. So Last Crusade, and we have Elsa, who is the most Nazi adjacent lady ever. I don't think there's any adjacent about it. I think she's just straight up a Nazi. I mean, just even from the second you meet her, you're like, yeah like oh, this Aryan woman with this icy blonde hair and even icier blue eyes. Interesting. Don't trust you. And ah she has quite a variety of outfits.
00:33:13
Speaker
costumes in the film, and she's always looking couture. I can't remember where she goes. It is very smart. And we did get that from Marion at the end of Raiders. We did. And I was happy to see that. She looked phenomenal. Her little like taupe colored suit. Her little hat. Her little gloves. And so like we get to see that with Elsa throughout. It's the female tailoring of everything is just like
00:33:45
Speaker
Pretty lovely. And there's after the boat chase, like, and she and India are soaking wet, you can see the structure, like the tailored structure that's built into the shoulder pads in her blouse. Yeah. Is she driving the boat when they're talking to the friend that they've made who is a member? I cannot help but think that as I famously did not rewatch the movie.
00:34:11
Speaker
okay Remember his name, but he's like a representative of the something of the cruciform sword. So he's the guy that they're looking for the, the, um, the Holy Grail. And he's like wearing this striped suit that is double breasted, I want to say. And it's like a handsome suit. And what killed me when got me because we're in Venice is that they put him in a white tie.
00:34:43
Speaker
ah And why that gets me is because I go, that feels like New York gangster, like shortcut, we're in Italy. And this is a What would they probably have called him? Yeah, they probably would have called him a swarthy man. oh no right who And so it's like, I was just like, there's some, some cheats happening here visually. And like this actor carries it. He's got curls in his hair. Like he is handsome in this suit. Again, tailored, looking great. Probably custom. But yeah, but like that tie made me laugh.
00:35:21
Speaker
and um And he's like soaking wet when he's saying goodbye to them and he takes the time to rebut his jacket. Oh, you got a good bruiser. Palette wise in all these movies, yeah they're in the desert, deserty areas. They're getting muddy. They're getting messy. So there's a lot of neutrals because it's clothes that are for like hot places. So you don't want to be necessarily wearing all black. And usually the characters that are wearing all black, except for Marcus, are usually pretty evil.
00:35:54
Speaker
Yeah, that's how you can tell. Yeah, that's how you can tell. Or they're like the Nazis wearing like a leather overcoat and you're like, yeah sir, we are in the desert. Like, please take that off. A thousand degrees and you're wearing a hat. Like, let's, and a scarf, let's, and gloves. Like, let's, let's dial it back. Um, nevermind. Die from heat stroke. Um,
00:36:16
Speaker
There's a here' a moment where Elsa and Indy are breaking into this Nazi castle in the Last Crusade and by breaking in. They're pretending to be lost tourists or like tourists who who got there late or whatever. yeah And Indy is putting on this like crazy accent and Elsa is playing along even though all the Nazis know who she is and she knows who they are. She's like, yes, we are so lost. Oh, no. But she's wearing u Yeah, she's wearing this like royal blue scarf and it's the brightest thing we've seen for a while. yeah And I'm like, this is pretty fantastic because it's like a terrible disguise.
00:37:01
Speaker
where it's like kind of thing, so much attention that the thought is like, yeah, a tourist would wear something that would be like too bright. Like it's super stormy outside and all these different things, but it's also like the one bright garment that we're seeing. And then she and Indy split up. He does like this, like, he like repels from a rope into his dad's room where he's being kept, gets hit over the head with a vase, and then we see, boom, Sean Connery. And Sean Connery's character, Henry Jones Sr., is wearing, for the most of this movie, my favorite choice, which is a bucket hat or or a grouse hat, is
00:37:45
Speaker
So it goes it's it's what the glasses in the bow tie due to India as a professor yeah where it just softens him up and it's like this is where you learned how to dress as a professor is from his dad how to look harmless yeah and the hat is so funny.
00:38:04
Speaker
I love that hat because he could have worn any hat and they put him in a bucket hat to make him look good. It's so perfect because like in the context of the production, not my understanding of the movie as a kid watching it, but That's James Bond. yeah playing so they were like bumble li like He is the bumbling professor. He's not playing the bumbling professor. And he's constantly snapping or slapping India at the back of the head when he's being rude or killing a guy. you know like he He's hapless. He doesn't know.
00:38:41
Speaker
not picking up on any of the cues of what he should be feeling or how he should be reacting. He does not know how to be getting away from the bad guys. He's very smart at digging for information and archaeology, et cetera, and clues, but he's not Indiana Jones-ing around the place. And he actually makes fun of, which I do love, makes fun of Indy for going by Indy. He's like, that's not your name. That's the dog's name.
00:39:07
Speaker
And Sala's like, hey, what? What? That's a that valuable piece of gossip. Yeah, Sala's like, that's the best news I've heard all day. And speaking of Sala, oh, Sala. No, Sala. Oh, Sala. Like every every character, every human being we see in Cairo or any place that is not a European place is very much a stereotype. Yep.
00:39:37
Speaker
period. And like the the caricaturization changes per movie, but it's just like, you know, solos in a fez singing British songs with like a cummerbund. Yeah, when he's like trying to meet up with Marcus and then puts him in the back of a truck by accident, he's got this like striped cummerbund.
00:39:59
Speaker
And he does have a shirt that i I did enjoy at the end of a crusade where he um it's a horizontal stripe shirt and you don't normally see that really super much anymore because people have this thing which I don't agree with at all that like vertical stripes make you look one way and horizontal stripes make you look another. They're stripes.
00:40:25
Speaker
but They're they are lines on a piece of textile. Okay. They're stripes. And if you wear other things and style them, they're just stripes. Do we even want to get into the whole conversation about the sort of like inherent fatphobia that we have or the idea that it might, even if it did make you look whiter, that that would be awful and you should avoid it at all costs? Yeah.
00:40:49
Speaker
Do we want to have that conversation? I think we are. And that's that's why it drives me a a wall. I can't want to say other stuff, but it drives me crazy because it's like to style it. Like if you feel vulnerable about something, it's change it.
00:41:07
Speaker
change right Yeah, o i don't I don't have anything else too smart to say about that other than, now you know, everyone that this is a very much like episode. Any of those like type of like rules that people have about clothes just like If they like pop up in your mind where where you're like, oh, I can't do this because of this, just think about why you think that and just like give it a second and you can go with it or not go with it, whatever. But like, when it's also valid thing to um let it go.
00:41:43
Speaker
just let it go, be like barking. I have those in my head all the time. And I, you know, it's like you you try to train yourself to just like, take a second and think about it for a little bit longer. But you know, we all think them. Yeah, it's just, you know, it's dumb. And I was very happy to see this with Sala and be like, Oh, there's actually a variety of directions of stripes on this shirt. And I'm really liking it. It looks great. He does. And and I was like, hey, you. I felt kind of similarly about Alfred Molina at the beginning of Raiders, where it was sort of like the the things that he is given to do as an actor, I'm like, this is not a is not a meaty role. No. And the way that that all of the people of color are is
00:42:32
Speaker
it's just kind of been vandalized NPCs, you know, where they they're like there conveniently to help our main character. And then he like explains stuff to them. yeah And it's like, or if they're like sneaky, they're not doing it well, you know, like there's just yeah stuff where it's like, which is why I skipped Temple of Doom. I was like, I can't be doing this.
00:42:55
Speaker
Yeah. good I would be very and annoyed, I think. um So, last crusade, we're going through all these cool discoveries in like a ah library, being scared. Going down in a crypt, we're going, we're digging up, we're digging through.
00:43:15
Speaker
yeah And then we have found our way to where we know the Holy Grail is. We have to go through all these steps based on Henry Senior's diary where he's compiled all this information. And we get to watch, like this is something that I do love about the iconic Indiana Jones outfit is that it is for practical purpose. It's not just to look good. Like there's nothing kind of dumb thrown in there. Like the whip,
00:43:45
Speaker
Like visible there's nothing restrictive built in there just to be there like there's no random bandoliers or anything you know right and so we feel that we have are like practical yeah details of of the construction of the garments.
00:44:03
Speaker
to allow, like within the confines of this is the 1930s, like this is sport wear of that time. It is the most- And it's also a sport wear that he's been wearing to death. So it's all yeah very comfortable. it's not It's not falling apart. It's worn in yeah and it's like been tested and proven. So we see Indian Jones like throwing himself through things, jumping through glass, ah hauling ass up a chi like ah um a chimney.
00:44:33
Speaker
Like, just doing all this stuff, fighting, and everything he's wearing, you don't look at any of it and go, this feels like it's going to pop off or it's like restrictive in any way. It feels like... and a just exactly yeah Yeah, it feels like he's chosen everything and tested it, and these are the things that he wears. And like maybe when he's home, he gets them like reproduced by a tailor so that he can just keep wearing the same thing.
00:45:01
Speaker
Yeah, and then wearing it in and in and in again. And so you're like, this is all practical. This feels like somebody who is not like he's wearing this stuff as a cosplay of this guy that like blew his mind when he's a teenager, but he he also learned very quick that those were things that were comfortable.
00:45:16
Speaker
Right? And he has like, especially in in Raiders, he has like a his go bag is like, those clothes are in it. He doesn't wear them when he's at home. He wears them when he's hacking his way through the jungle with the machete. Like he yeah he keeps them for this purpose and he doesn't use them otherwise. Like, yeah that's just what they're for.
00:45:38
Speaker
Yeah, they are his uniform. They're his work clothes. And so I really enjoyed that. And I also like really want to shout out the hat because the hat hats are notorious for popping off or just like, you know, just the wind will take them off all these different things. But it's like that's a hat that he wears because it's going to protect his face from the sun.
00:45:59
Speaker
It's in some places he can kind of meld in because other men are wearing hats outside. Like there's just so many different reasons and it's like a hat that is comfortable and it fits and yeah again tested and proven. Wonderful. But then we get to meet our buddy, the knight. The knight is protecting the holy grail. ah yeah I love this guy because he's presumably been in this cave for hundreds of years, at least nine of them. Yeah, at least because the middle ages. Yeah. theyt So maybe not 900 years because the Crusades were like,
00:46:45
Speaker
Yeah, but there was fourteen there were several. there yeah I think they started in like the 1100s though, so you know. Yeah, so he's been there for a very long time. And he looks spic and span, whatever is in the properties of that water, which I'm presuming he drank in order, I don't know what happened to get him to keep living that long, but like his skin is gray, fair.
00:47:12
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know how he's had life. There's not a lot of bringing him candles because like candles burn out and melt down. Maybe he poured the grail water on the candles. I don't know. I mean, it's just like, does he have like a a source bringing him stuff? I don't understand, but like he's still wearing his chain mail.
00:47:37
Speaker
So it's like, does he sleep and then he wakes up when people arrive? Like, what is going on? Is he in cryo sleep when he needs to be? because And that chainmail is very shiny. That chainmail is shiny and that the tabard is pearl white and like clean. And I'm just like, listen, this man assuming has not bathed in anywhere from 900 to 500 years. So what what how come he's not looking more raggedy? Magic, that's the answer. I think it's home i think you're you're discounting the power of Jesus Christ, Ariel. I think you're forgetting about our Lord and Savior.
00:48:25
Speaker
I am. Jeezy Kreezy is not featuring hard in my calculations. You can't forget about him. What is it? Like quote from, it's always sunny in Philadelphia. Through Christ, all things are possible. So jot that down. I just, I just like, I enjoyed this man who is like very knowledgeable, but also feels like an old man who's overwhelmed by people who are talking too fast.
00:48:55
Speaker
yeah He's like, wow, wow, wow. It's like, it's thou couldst. And they're like, listen here, buddy. think it's He's like, cup chews wisely. Go ahead.
00:49:12
Speaker
And he's just like, oh, no, and old man. And he's just so tired. And part of why he's so tired is I'm assuming that because he's carrying around fucking full chain mail and he's been doing it for a real long time. Like. Doesn't he still have a big sword too? He does. He's just holding it. Can't even lift it.
00:49:35
Speaker
It is crazy. And so it's just like, you are a tired man and that's okay. um But yeah, I was just like, you're so clean. And the fact that, I mean, like, it's not necessary. But if I were a human being in that situation, I feel like I'd turn around and be like, you're so clean, sir. Like, can we, I feel like we need to acknowledge that before I can move forward. How long have you been here? Can we acknowledge that? How long you been in here? And, oh my God. But yeah, and he doesn't even really have a name. It's just Grail Knight. That's his character's name. Grail Knight. We don't even... Yeah, he's got like the other knights that we've found like the tombs for, like his literal brothers, right? Isn't that kind of the vibe? Yeah, his contemporaries. And it's like,
00:50:26
Speaker
Oh, that was Paul. RIP. It's just like, Jesus Christ, literally. But um i just in my notes, I was like, that man has to be so itchy. Could you imagine? You would not. Because like that's why you had a squire when you were a knight, was because your squire would put your armor on you. Because it would be so heavy, at least with Western armor, where it's metal.
00:50:51
Speaker
And like you would have this whole system so that, you know, Knights always had a chain of of advancement, you know, to become a Knight so that there was always a system of people plugged in to do the the work, aka learning how to be a Knight. But really it's just like a teenager who puts chainmail on you and like cleans up your sweaty, nasty armor.
00:51:14
Speaker
Yeah, he should have had his little squire like in the back corner of the cave. There's just like an eternal 15 year old who's like, get me out of here. I didn't know what I was signing up for.
00:51:27
Speaker
I can't imagine. My hand just gave me away. it's It's definitely props and not costumes, but i just I love how movies are constantly teaching us the lesson of like pride and hubris through like the choice of like which is the holy grail and how like we as humans cannot seem to learn that lesson ever.
00:51:51
Speaker
ever and it's like I'm so grateful that in this version, And he goes like he was a carpenter and just like picks up The most basic companies like one come on, man. He was just a plain working guy. Just a dude He's just a guy. He's just a little guy And sure, it was coated in gold on the inside. but like yeah And also some of them are just like straight up like a plate. And if you get fooled by thinking that the holy grail is a plate, I do not feel bad for you. You're out of your mind. You're out of your mind. like By nature of the word grail, it means that it's lifted up.
00:52:33
Speaker
Shout out to the special effects in this movie and in Raiders with people just like disintegrating on camera in like the best way. Really good. like This one is like, yeah, like Last Crusade is more about like withering and turning to dust where it's like Raiders was about melting like a candle and yeah but like so good. Well we already melted. So how can we disappear now? Well let's wither.
00:53:04
Speaker
Yeah, let's turn into ah pile of dust that we can like sweep up with one of those plates razined yet Oh my God. These movies are, they were just like so much a big part. Like Disney Land has an Indiana Jones ride, you know, like it's a big part of pop culture and justifiably so, but it does with the language of today, perpetrate a lot of shit that we just don't need to continue perpetrating, which is like yeah colonialism and the effects of it. Well, not the effects of it. Like we should be talking about the effects of it, but like yes romanticizing the ability, glorifying. Yeah. and glorifying the ability to perpetuate colonialism by just taking shit and like taking stuff that's not ours and then
00:53:53
Speaker
discounting the people that that history belongs to. Yeah, it's like, okay, like, sure, I don't want the Nazis to have it, but like, that doesn't mean that the people who made it shouldn't get to, like, they one hundred they made it. It's theirs. And that, like, the people to whom these things belong aren't somehow capable of caring for it or recording history. Like, that's just such a a paternalistic condescending. There's so much to say about that. And like in the news to like this week, a bunch of museums and universities returning like the remains of people's loved ones from the move bombing, you know, like that's not that long ago. Like the conversation about museums, which is like a very short handed conversation that we have in Indiana Jones, because his argument is, well, it belongs in a museum because he's like,
00:54:46
Speaker
looking at it from this like romanticized American egalitarian lens, which is like, everybody should have access, which is not necessari necessarily true. It just isn't. And you don't get to make that decision. If Indiana Jones stole the shit from the Nazis, like took it back and gave it back to the people it belonged to, then it would be like, now you're a Robin Hood. you know Now you're a folk hero who's like using your access for good instead of literally evil. Like, yeah, but like the arc ending up in like a US government warehouse. Basically, it wasn't it like area 50, 50, 51 area. Literally, I think so. 50 whatever. That was 51. 51. Yeah. Yeah. no but i never I mean, it is if not, then yeah, some other black site, like that was, yeah you know, that was the result. Obviously we're not supposed to feel satisfied with that result, but not because we believe that it should go back to like the descendants of the like ancient Jewish people that created it. That wasn't part of the conversation in this movie. No, instead it was like, well, the American government will figure out what to do with it. And we were dissatisfied, but it was like,
00:55:57
Speaker
Well, that's just what they're going to do. That's what they're going to do. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. So there's like a tiny dip into the pool of that conversation in these movies, but not very deep. Maybe better in Temple because he steals back those sacred stones and gives them back to the village that they came from. So like weirdly, a more ethical outcome.
00:56:21
Speaker
in that movie with so many other problems. It's like the character is not totally without ethics. you know like But the ethics of that time are not so great. They're not so modern lens. And so it is, again, the same thing we talked about with The Mummy. These were things that existed when we were coming up as millennials.
00:56:40
Speaker
that influenced our pop culture tastes, et cetera, et cetera. And so like, this is a major benchmark. And i'm I loved these movies when I was a kid because they were adventure, because they were adventure and because Indiana Jones always has a quip and he's got the hat and he's got the whip and he's got the stuff. He's like jet setting around and he's just going and doing and finding stuff. And There's clues in adventure, adventure, adventure, and also magic. like There's magic in each one. I do want to drop in my Kingdom of the Crystal Skull or whatever. oh People were like, this is ridiculous. and It was like, are you for real right now? We had an eternal night. he but last crusade We the Ark of the Covenant melting Nazis in raiders.
00:57:34
Speaker
it's Yeah, the problem is not the artifact in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. The problem is the story and also the CGI effects. Yes, the CGI is where it really, really goes off the rails. And also Shia LaBeouf, like that is its own problem.
00:57:48
Speaker
um problem but there are a lot of issues with this. And just because like, it's it's really because of the time that we're in right now and we're older and the conversations about things that happen in these movies are are still present and like have not been answered yet, you know, like, so watching it today, it sucks that I can't just be like, ooh, Indiana Jones movie, movie, movie, but it's like, me I'm mad about stuff. I know, like it's, I don't want to, I don't want to have to be like, I like the movie despite all of the things that I know, but it's like, what what else do you say? I mean, you you have to, if you refuse to acknowledge it, then I'm like, well, okay, what are we even even talking about then? It's like, there's a, there's a place I think for,
00:58:39
Speaker
recognizing what things were when you were younger and what they were to you then and how they influenced you and how they shaped, you know, how you see things, whatever, including just entertainment, and going like, I acknowledged your value, like,
00:58:54
Speaker
that exists and if these were to be made today there would be maybe some changes made or at least if not changes there would be highlights to the the the little problem areas of these characters that would be added into dialogue or something you know like not somebody going this is unethical it's just like yeah there would be a little bit and more of a self-awareness.
00:59:15
Speaker
Yeah. Did you um did you watch Dial of Destiny when it came out? I did. Yeah. And it was sort of like, I feel like it was sort of their way of kind of trying to do something less problematic without, you know, like it.
00:59:31
Speaker
I don't know. I had, I weirdly kind of liked that movie. I did because it was, it was the same thing as like, I mean, it's very different, but it's the same with the alien movies that come out. I just go like, Hey, it's an alien. Right. Right. It's an Indiana Jones. Like there's, there's a comfort blanket to it because you know, when you sit down, you're going to get an adventure. Boom. But like, yeah, there's, there's yeah like there's an evolution of, of what,
01:00:01
Speaker
you want to be talking about you know yeah that that happens naturally through time. and Because of where we are in time right now, that's very much at the forefront of my my watching. and So these things that you know we're just were just fun when I was a kid, I'm like, well. Some of those things were off when I was a kid. But I was like, here's Amy and her girls. Now I'm like, come on.
01:00:27
Speaker
Like, oh, we really can't. And you know, it's so interesting because like I have no background of watching the sort of like adventure serial films that like Spielberg and Lucas were inspired by in like developing this character. So As a kid, like all of that is just like straight over my head. like I had yeah no concept of those movies. like I did not really grow up watching like old movies. i just like wasn't I was very much like, current pop culture is what I'm consuming as a kid. Mainstream, current pop culture, what everyone's talking about at the playground in school. like That's what I'm aware of. Which is so crazy because I was on the other half. There was a point where I was about 10 years old where I like consciously thought to myself, what time do I think it is? Because I knew what year it was. It was 1997. But like my grandmother had a room in her house. like Most of her house was very much 70s, early 80s. But she had one room in her house that was untouched from the early mid 70s.
01:01:35
Speaker
And it had furniture you weren't allowed to sit on, still had shag carpet, like avocado green, carrot orange, all that stuff. She had closets that were full of vintage clothes from New York in the 60s and 70s. It still had labels on, you know, like everything she listened to on the radio was always the oldie station. So it was like, and she would give me some of her clothes, which I could only fit when I was 10. And they were things that she had bought when she was in her
01:02:05
Speaker
That's how tiny she was. I was like, oh no, we're built different, Grandma. I was like, we're from a different DNA chain, which is true. But I was out of time in a weird way. And I watched Shirley Temple movies because they had been re-released onto VHS. I was just like,
01:02:28
Speaker
All these things that I was taking in were from a ah wide variety of time. When I was at other people's houses, I couldn't sleep at night. I had insomnia as a kid. So I would watch Nick at night to try to fall asleep. And there were like shows from the sixties. I did watch a little Nick at night. That is true. but because yeah Because it was on Nickelodeon, it was sort of like,
01:02:48
Speaker
it was the permission structure of like, it's right here. Yeah. And so it's like those touch points were present for me. I liked like a Dick Tracy cartoon or something when I was i remember having a lunchbox and a thermos, but also Ninja Turtles was my favorite. So it was like a lot of things were happening at one time. So I like understood that of Indiana Jones in a weird way.
01:03:10
Speaker
All right, well, i think what else is there to say? Yeah, I think that's kind of, okay this is going to be a real short episode. Yeah, it is. This is like 35 minutes. People are going to be like the most movies they've ever covered. It's the shortest episode. One thing that we should say before we get any into any conclusion or anything is we should shout out the designers. Yeah, I was going to say yes.
01:03:41
Speaker
100%. Do you have them? Glad we're on the same page there. I do. Okay. Because I was like, I'll look them up real quick. Yeah. No, it's okay. That was like the one thing I did. um like So ah Raiders of the Lost are like the most important. You know, it's kind of like what be what we talk about doing all the time, like what we care about, whatever. I don't know.
01:04:04
Speaker
oh So yes, our costume designer for Raiders of the Lost Ark was Deborah Nadulmin Landis, ah whose book I have sitting next to me and I'm open to her original costume rendering of Indiana Jones, just for vibes. um She, however, did not design the costumes of any of the subsequent Indiana Jones.
01:04:28
Speaker
movies. Temple of Doom and The Last Crusade were both designed by Anthony Powell, who we previously met in our episode on Hook. And Joanna Johnston is also credited as a costume designer on Last Crusade, who we previously met for Back to the Future 2.
01:04:49
Speaker
And she also did Back to the Future 3, which we didn't cover, but she was there. um So it looks like her anthony she was there yeah it looks like her and Anthony Powell kind of shared the job on Last Crusade according to IMDB. So I don't know how that exactly you know how that was divided up amongst them, and I didn't look it up because that's not what we do.
01:05:13
Speaker
and I'm sure there is information out there because these are movies that people have talked about hello a lot. Yeah, people care about these movies and they talk about them a lot. um And I believe Joanna Johnston also designed the costumes for Dial of Destiny.
01:05:28
Speaker
Oh, that's cool. Yeah, so I think she continued with. She's still working all the time doing so much amazing work, so she's out there. You could find her in a theater near you probably. Sold it. and that' was good This is the vibe I'm bringing to the episode. I don't know what I'm doing. There's a microphone in front of me. The green light is on.
01:05:54
Speaker
there this is ah I don't know, this is a strange time. Thank you for listening very much. But this is a strange time and I don't know, this is yeah not so much a free willing costume. I know, it's like, wouldn't it be so much fun if we just didn't care and we could do that? Wouldn't it be great if we could just not give a shit about what was happening in the world and just be like, tra la la la, fedoras and whips and leather jackets all day. But, you know, that's the thing. That's the thing that we talk about about the profession. And of course, we're going to tag this at the end of this. Like we get pissed about this with when people I have gotten pissed when I've worked on productions and there's a lot of research that goes into things. And like, even if you're doing a silly he-ha kind of thing,
01:06:48
Speaker
you're putting in a lot of research into a time, a place. And then if you're applying that to a fantastical place, you're still pulling it from somewhere. And then it's just maybe a more variety, but you're creating so much for characters. And so it's like you are,
01:07:05
Speaker
creating part of the visual language to tell a story. and So it's like it's not just about- But you love the sequence and the way- Yes, I do, but there's also another part of it, which is the storytelling aspect. What we've been coming up against in this episode is realizing that we're frustrated with parts of the storytelling, and it's not at the fault of anyone. It's accurate to a lot of thinking,
01:07:33
Speaker
in the era of these movies and in the era of when these movies were made. So that's not it. It's that you should be having conversations about costume that go beyond, look how pretty these things are. It's what else do they tell you? And we've definitely talked about that in many other episodes because costumes not only are used as tools of like foreshadowing or like, you know, this is this character's favorite color, but it,
01:08:01
Speaker
it can Something that someone is wearing could be political. It lands in a time and a place it often is, mostly women's clothing. It's of political. And so it's like, you know, there there there are stories that are happening. And in this one, there were some frustrating stories.
01:08:23
Speaker
They're relevant. And so it's it's the relevance that that's frustrating because we can't just look back and go like, isn't that crazy that that's how it was back then? Like, nope, can't do that. Unfortunately. It's pithy to be like, ha ha wouldn't it be great if we just didn't care? but like i would don't want to be a person that didn't care. like i don't know I don't want to be someone that could ignore that stuff and just be like, oh, look at a pretty gown and not examine it beyond that. like i I would not like myself if I did that. That would not be and me. so And it's like in that vein to just like really quickly tap back onto Marion in Raiders being dressed by two men at the end of the movie.
01:09:06
Speaker
that is supported by those characters, thinking that they're doing a favor or exerting power, you know, in different, from the different, two different men. But it's like, these are supported by the characters that were being shown, and it works within the story, but it is frustrating and didn't have to be that way.
01:09:29
Speaker
Right, it's sort of like, it's it supports the story, but you're sort of like, well, but a bunch of people decided to tell this story. Yes, so and they could have told the story differently in that respect. So it's like, yeah, it's not a criticism of the choices of the design, because they were great choices, yeah but it's sort of like this is the limitations of the story that we're being told.
01:09:53
Speaker
So it's like these conversations are always valid, you know, and it's it's it's not good to just be bogged down in the academia of a thing because I think you do I've seen it a lot with with YouTube Costumers where you lose the plot because look like when You to believe the plot yeah i literally lose it because you have fundamentally misunderstood the purpose of costume design and that is something that makes me want to like run into a wall repeatedly is these folks who are very knowledgeable about certain things but like are carrying this mantle of all knowledge which is just silly.
01:10:35
Speaker
to do ever and to be talking about something that is costume designed, which is a field that is real. And then to reduce it to this isn't historically accurate or whatever is is very vexing sometimes. And like that can be true. You know, you can point to a show like Rain and be like, that's not historically accurate. Yeah, I mean, like, but like, if you asked the designer, were you trying to recreate historical clothing in this show? so were you like no No, this is a TV show. So yeah it's sort of it's very pedantic thinking that everyone is approaching the subject from the same POV that you are, which is like some sort of like conservationist historian,
01:11:22
Speaker
point of view and I find it really um ah annoying and one of the reasons why i think i I think that this is why we've approached this show the way that we do is You're making a movie for as many people as possible to enjoy. This is a commercial art form. It's for everybody. And so all of that kind of thinking to me is really gate keeping in terms of like you shouldn't enjoy it and you don't deserve to enjoy it because you haven't studied this and I have and I'm a serious person and you're not and I hate that way of thinking.
01:12:07
Speaker
so much. It's so exclusionary. The gate-keeping-ness of it all is exactly it, where it's like, we're going to shut the door on you because you didn't take this course in a university. So stupid. And it's like, it's wonderful if you do hold a degree. It's wonderful if you don't. Everybody can get something from anything. And that's the joy that we have in talking about costumes, even though we've been very monotone emotionally on this.
01:12:34
Speaker
But it's like, you know, you shouldn't just be stuck into one thing. I don't know. I think it's just nice being able to just have a conversation about these things. And like we we do miss a bunch of stuff. Like we're not talking about tons of characters, speaking role characters in these movies. And that's because, especially in this episode, in this series, it's because they're all wearing accurate clothes.
01:13:00
Speaker
for the 30s. They all look right. you know Nothing thing stands out as being like, what is that? like it all It works, it's beautiful, it's great. like We don't need to draw attention to it because it just fits in the storytelling and does its job in the story and it just is there. and it's sort of like if you go to you know If you look at like a painting, I haven't studied painting.
01:13:25
Speaker
So I can't examine like the brushwork of the painting and tell you every detail of that. But if I have an emotional response to the painting, then the artist has done their job by making art that makes me feel something. And that's exactly like what we're doing with costumes. is like The job of the costume is to be part of the art of the movie. And if you don't notice every little tailoring line of Elsa's suit jacket, that doesn't stop you from loving the movie and enjoying the movie. yeah So it's great if you can see those things and you don't have to. Yeah, you don't need to know the names of the cuff style on her sleeve to be able to enjoy the the movement or how it looks at that point in the story. And that's something to be celebrated. And that's what we're here to do is to take the gatekeeping. And that's what we're going to scream about for as long as we shall live. Some episodes will be standing up. Some will be sitting up. Some, like this one, will be emotionally laying down. And that's just how it's going to be. Yeah. I mean, we have to show up as our authentic selves, you know?
01:14:48
Speaker
Well, on that note, thank you so much for following us along on this roller coaster of an episode. It's always a pleasure. Much like the Disneyland attraction, Indiana Jones. This is true. It's a roller coaster. And so meta, because Indiana Jones, the series, was the boulder I'm trying to run from.
01:15:08
Speaker
We made it through the Antenna Jones trilogy. Please ah join us next time. We are going to be taking a hard left turn into a completely different frame of mind, a completely different frame of mind, a completely different style era, a different century.
01:15:31
Speaker
We are going to be doing another double feature where we will be discussing the eternal Mean Girls and Legally Blonde. Get your pink clothing out, get your sparkles, get your low-rise denim out of the closet, get it all together. ah Maybe we should release this episode on Wednesday so that on Wednesdays we can wear pink, blah, blah, blah.
01:16:02
Speaker
I'm actually really excited. I love both of these movies. I'm actually like very excited. I think I'm just still in an Indiana Jones headspace. I'm still in that that Harrison Ford too cool for real feelings headspace, but I am very excited to talk about these movies. I have not watched these movies in a very long time. I can easily say it's been over 10 years. oh yeah oh Oh my God.
01:16:26
Speaker
Rediscovery, reawakening. I can't wait to see how the message of these movies has aged in the over 20 years since they each came out. Yeah. I'm really looking forward to it. Let's do it. I'm looking forward to that monologue at the at the end of Legally Blonde. That courtroom reveal. The courtroom reveal was just fantastic. Wow.
01:16:50
Speaker
Oh, and both movies were explicitly how you dress as a woman changes how you are seen by society. So I think it's very honestly like very on trend with what we talked about in this episode too. Absolutely. Just from a different lens and a different voice. So let's get it. Follow us next week. too And we get to wear pink. I think I will wear pink for the recording.
01:17:19
Speaker
I don't think I own anything that's pink so emotionally. I'll wear something pink. I'll lend you a like quadruple XL pink polo shirt. Perfect. Yes. Okay. See you all there. Bye. Bye.