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What If...? Killmonger Rescued Tony Stark Ep 6
745 Plays4 years ago
The OG Animation Deliberation duo is back to breakdown and analyze the latest episode of the MCU's first animated series! #whatif #marvelstudios #killmonger #animation
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
On this exciting entry of Animation Deliberation, we are covering the latest entry of What If. What If Eric Killmonger rescued Tony Stark. We're going to get into that right after some ads that we have no say over whatsoever. You're invited to explore cypress swamps and magical gardens and float along the rushing waters of an old-fashioned swimming hole. Plan your journey at visitmississippi.org slash outdooradventure. Mississippi. Wanderers welcome.
00:00:29
Speaker
Hey listeners, I've got an exciting giveaway to tell you about. For the month of September, the Stranded Panda Network is doing a raffle to give away your choice of a Nintendo Switch or an Oculus Quest.
00:00:38
Speaker
All you have to do is leave a positive 5-star review on any Stranded Panda podcast on Apple Podcasts. Each review counts as a raffle, so when you're done enjoying this episode of Animation Deliveration, take a moment to check out some awesome shows like Marvel Cinematic Universe Podcasts, Superhero Ethics, Source Pages, Binges Assemble, and more. To see all our shows and rules for the raffle, check out StrandedPanda.com slash Contest. Now back to the show!
Hosts Reunion and Animation Discussion
00:01:14
Speaker
Sing along if you know the words. One, two, three, it's time for animation deliberation. A conversation and a celebration of our favorite action animated series. Yeah. Woo hoo.
00:01:33
Speaker
All right, feels good. Feels good to be back. But that being said, Zuher, you did a great job last week. I appreciate you stepping up and filling in while we pondered what happens when I'm not here. Yeah, between me losing my voice for a while, then you having to travel with Wong and the multiverse. It's been a while since we've been in each other's company. Good to be with you, buddy.
00:02:00
Speaker
Yep. Yep. We got the dream team here. We're kicking it old school, the animation deliberation duo that started
Initial Reactions to Killmonger & Stark Episode
00:02:07
Speaker
it all. And we're here to discuss an exciting episode for my, for my money. I had the opportunity to talk about it a little bit on the Marvel cinematic universe podcast instant reaction. So I'm very curious, my friend, what are you thinking about this? This entry of what if, what if Eric Killmonger saved Tony Stark or rescued rather.
00:02:27
Speaker
Yeah, while we are the likely duo, this was definitely a duo that I was not expecting to see. We did get a little tidbit of it in the trailer, seeing them working together a little bit, but I didn't think about too much what the whole episode would be like. And it definitely took a lot of twists and turns I wasn't expecting.
00:02:45
Speaker
Personally, my favorite, my trio of the top solo movies in the MCU are Iron Man, Black Panther and now Shang-Chi. So the fact that two of those shows were put together was like really exciting for me because it had like the emotion and the tidbits and like all the stuff from those two movies that I really loved. But I wasn't expecting so much heartbreak in it. I was like, Oh my God, this is a lot of death.
00:03:14
Speaker
But also with What If, there's been a lot of episodes that have been very far-fetched in terms of space, magic, timeline, things of that sort. So just like with the MCU, like how I was very excited for Falcon and the Winter Soldier and Shang-Chi and Black Widow for things to be more grounded, it's nice to have a What If episode that's grounded as
Storytelling Approaches in 'What If'?
00:03:33
Speaker
well. And while it didn't get the feedback that, I don't think it's gotten the strongest feedback of all the episodes so far from the viewers, but
00:03:44
Speaker
I was happy with it. I really liked how they experimented with it. It took a lot of twists and turns I wasn't expecting. And yeah, it was, it was, it was a really fun episode.
00:03:53
Speaker
Interesting. I think I've only heard a little bit about some of that negative feedback you're alluding to, so I'll be kind of interested to hear what some people's issues are, but I do agree with you. I made the comparisons to episode three, and that's been the nice thing about this series with the question, what if it allows for a lot of different opportunities? It can be a small question. It can be a huge question. It can have
00:04:15
Speaker
huge rippling ramifications and really push the envelope and as fun as that is and as exciting as that can be I really find myself enjoying these kind of smaller stories that as I said on the instant reaction they kind of relish in the established MCU and it's like it's kind of nice as such fans of these films and having watched these films so many times I always get a kick out of just kind of getting to see so many scenes just kind of turned on their head so
00:04:44
Speaker
I was really high on the episode, but I'll have to keep an eye out for some of those criticisms. And I like what Andrew said on the episode last week, encouraging people to tell us some of the more critical feedback because it makes for a good conversation.
Audience Engagement with Animation Format
00:05:01
Speaker
Yeah, because I am curious how much of it is because of the format, whether it be that it's animated or whether it be the time slot and how much it actually is a storytelling. True.
00:05:13
Speaker
Listeners are you enjoying the story and wish that it was stretched out more or is it the actual like It is it like the medium that makes you go like I'm not invested because I don't visually enjoy Watching this. I'm curious like what end of it. It actually is
00:05:33
Speaker
Yeah, I have no doubt that there are some detractors out there and it's like I have no problem whatsoever. Obviously we here at animation deliberation love animation. It's an awesome medium, but I understand it's not for everybody. So I don't I don't you know, but that's that's completely fine. But I do kind of wonder if it's like almost like two strikes against it and the fact that it's animated like not everybody's going to be fully on board. But it's the fact that the nature of the show is what if it's almost like
00:06:02
Speaker
you don't have to be invested. They are standalone stories. And is that why people don't have the itch and the desire just to catch up every episode is as soon as it drops. And today I was thinking about it on the road. We had our
00:06:17
Speaker
I don't want to say issue but like our grievance with Bad Batch of like the episodes were good but not knowing if there was a season two made us like wonder like is this really what you're gonna give us if it's only a certain amount of episodes I feel like there's a similar concern that that we know that there's gonna be a what a season two but it's also like which stories are gonna be continued
Future of 'What If' Stories
00:06:37
Speaker
because all of these are being left off with a cliffhanger. So it's like, well, I want more of this. Do I know I'm going to get more of this next year into years of this and that? Or is like, is this how they're going to wrap up that episode?
00:06:48
Speaker
So, I don't know, I understand all the different perspectives of it, but I'm just kind of curious, like, if I could make a little pie chart of who thinks what, it'd be cool to kind of have, if you guys could write in and let us know, like, what your grievance is with the show, like, what you think is working and what you think isn't working, and I guess kind of like what your expectations were to make it more to your liking.
00:07:10
Speaker
I got to be honest, that's kind of a segment I want for the show is Zuhar, you trying to describe like visual pie charts and then diagrams to audio listeners. That'd be fun. That'd be fun. I think we get a kick out of it. Yeah, I think that might be just as difficult as trying to explain martial arts like I did a couple of weeks ago. I was like, hey, try to picture this movement that I'm explaining.
00:07:38
Speaker
Well, well, on the subject of martial arts, what did you think about the action in this episode? We got to see, I think Killmonger kind of was the focal point for most of it. Yeah, it seemed to be more weapons, like firearms based than it was, like choreographed action sequences. But overall, it was really
Killmonger's Character Analysis
00:08:02
Speaker
cool. There was a good diversity with it.
00:08:04
Speaker
My main intrigue with this episode was I genuinely didn't know what Killmonger's intent was. I was like, are they actually making him a good guy? Like, is he actually going to work with Tony throughout this? Does he actually have like no ill will towards Wakanda type of thing? And then when that twist came that he like turned his back on Stark, I was like, oh, crap. Yeah, overall, like.
00:08:32
Speaker
There was a lot of twists and turns with us. I had to watch Tony and T'Challa die. What is wrong with you guys? And Rhodey. Rhodey too. And Rhodey. I mean, I didn't think as highly of him as the other two, but it's like, no offense. But man, it was just rough. It was really rough. I thought he was going to kill T'Chaka at the end.
00:08:53
Speaker
Oh, for sure. Yeah. I thought there was a moment in time where the claws were going straight into Chaka's back. But I agree with you too. It did have a lot of twists and turns and I was fully invested with Killmonger potentially being like a good guy and not having the baggage with Wakanda because especially we get like the
00:09:13
Speaker
revelation. I don't know if it's true to the MCU version of Killmonger. It seemed like there were a lot of things that remained the same with the characters, but the fact that he had the college thesis and that he had worked on AI himself. We'd never really seen that side of Killmonger. We obviously know that he's a pretty well-rounded guy to get as far as he has and be an ex-CIA operative and whatnot. Yeah. Yeah. And Michael B. Jordan is just
00:09:41
Speaker
so suave as Killmonger, I'd be totally on board with seeing him come back in the live action films in some fashion. Yeah, it was the line about Tony is like, Oh, what if you put the arc reactor just made it smaller? No, that's stupid. So it's like, we don't even have like this energy source. They actually just went straight to vibranium and breaking that down, which I thought was really interesting. But it just sucks that like Tony Stark genuinely wanted to help Killmonger.
00:10:11
Speaker
in his in his efforts to like protect the world a little more and like help the war front at home so it's like the fact that he kind of like turned his back just because of his vendetta was like dude like you actually could have accomplished your mission a little bit but well you killed two heroes instead three heroes instead
00:10:35
Speaker
Well, it just goes to show that's the difference between he and Tony and Iwatu said at the beginning of the episode, like heroes are forged in darkness. So whereas Tony did not have his opportunity to be forged in darkness, Killmonger still has.
00:10:53
Speaker
he, this is still very much the same Injodaka that lost Injobu like in Oakland in the early 90s and has been holding this vengeance for such a long time. And not just against Wakanda, he hates the whole like white imperialistic, like the colonization that the world exists in. And Tony Stark is very much a part of that. And so is Ulysses Klaw. So I think
00:11:19
Speaker
him taking out Tony Stark in this universe is almost kind of, he's doing it in the same motivation as when he takes out Klaw. I mean, obviously Klaw has committed heinous crimes against Wakanda, so there's that opportunity to use him as leverage.
00:11:35
Speaker
Man, I love you Lucy's claws so much and I was excited to get more of him. And I was like, why does he have to be killed off in every universe? I just want more of this character. I hate when MCU makes such a good villain and just has to keep killing them off or like making them a good guy. It's like, which one hasn't reached one of those two fates? Like give me a couple of stories with them first. Yeah. Yeah. At least he got to show up in Age of Ultron. And I felt like they paid a lot of, uh,
00:12:04
Speaker
homage to that scene. And I was really expecting him
Voice Acting and Animation Style
00:12:07
Speaker
to say cuttlefish. I was waiting for it. I was like, cuttlefish, cuttlefish, no cuttlefish, but that's okay. Terrified of cuttlefish. So Andy Serkis is always fantastic performance. Do you have the name of the person that did Tony Stark? Because I did not know it wasn't R.D. J. I knew that he wasn't in it. So as an afterthought, I was like, wow, that wasn't him. That person did a phenomenal job.
00:12:33
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. The vocal performer's name is Mike Wingert. And I agree with you. I think he did an incredible job 90% of the time. There were like two or three lines that like when he ended, they were just like way too nasally.
00:12:49
Speaker
and they just like hit me the wrong way. And I think it's because he was doing such a good job sounding like RDJ that when it didn't work, it just hit my ears really sharply. The only one I can call out off the top of my head is when he's talking to Kilmonger and he's like, I melted down that ring of yours. And just the way he ends yours is like super nasally. That makes sense. Between the Tom Holland
00:13:17
Speaker
RDJ and Chris Evans, like the voice actors who did their roles instead. I think I'm going to rank it. The guy who did, who tried to copy Tom Holland did the best. Okay. The RDJ one is second and Chris Evans is like third.
00:13:38
Speaker
I would agree with you and I wish I had the Tom Holland guy's name in front of me, but we're not covering that episode, so I don't have that readily available. But I would just flip-flop Steve and Tony, because I hear what some people were saying about Steve not being right on the money, but
00:13:56
Speaker
I think for me, it works almost better not to capture it 100% so that I don't have any of those moments where I'm just like, Oh, that didn't, yeah, didn't work for me. But capture the essence of the character, not the not the actor. Right, right.
00:14:13
Speaker
But on the other side of things in terms of this being like an animated series, so we've got the vocal performances and we talked a little bit about the action and you alluded to the fact that we got more weapons work. One of the things I've been noticing about the series and especially in this episode is with like the muzzle flashes and stuff like that. So like the muzzle flashes allow for a lot of illumination in the foreground and
00:14:34
Speaker
I'm starting to see more and more that they are really like invoking almost like a comic book aesthetic as much as this is like almost video game with the cell shading and whatnot. I'm noticing like the
00:14:47
Speaker
Models in the foreground have the most detail and the most three dimension and there's almost like a second layer that's still 3D but with less detail and as you get towards the background it just gets more and more flat and it creates a really cool almost like paper cut out with like a light shining behind it kind of effect and I'm really digging it. It's almost as if on a key scene of the episode you could pause and it would be like a comical panel.
00:15:16
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's cool. I really thought about it like that. Yeah, yeah. Did you have any, any lines that stuck out to you? I thought Killmonger was just afforded the opportunity for a lot of like, great, just one liners.
00:15:35
Speaker
I don't remember the actual quote, but he was like, what? I like anime. And then something along the lines about like the most advanced Gundam. I lost him about those lines. I was like, yes, this is so cool. Definitely thought about you. One of the one of he's a huge Dragon Ball Z fan and his armor is actually based loosely off of Vegeta.
00:15:57
Speaker
Yes. And what's interesting is when I was watching Shang-Chi for the second time, Shang-Chi is actually wearing an orange jacket that has like bluish sleeves, which made me think of like Goku a little bit. So I'm wondering like how much more like anime influences coming out of this. Yeah. But the fact, I like when, when actors get to bring a little bit of like who they are in real life into the characters that they're putting into little things like that. I'd be like, what? I like it. It was just like such a perfect line just to
00:16:26
Speaker
I don't know. I like that they can be themselves a little bit too. No, I 100% agree. It doesn't feel meta, you know? Yeah, I agree with you. Those people that pay attention to the tabloids and know who Michael B. Jordan is behind the camera, it was a nice little wink and nod for them. The dialogue between Tony Stark and Doctor Strange in Infinity War,
00:16:50
Speaker
like everybody wanted them to say no Sherlock but like that would have been too meta which is why like they openly said like this is why we're gonna put the line like do you conquer so it's like a little more subtle and it like flows a little better and doesn't give you like oh they said it I think everybody was expecting them to say it
00:17:10
Speaker
But when they bring it in classier ways, like, what? I like anime. Or do you concur? Little tidbits like that flavor nicely instead of totally taking you away from what's happening, you know? Yeah. I hear where you're coming from. I personally would have liked to have heard no shit Sherlock just because I'm basic. Oh, same. I would have loved to have heard it, but I like how they handled it.
00:17:34
Speaker
For sure, for sure. I did want to mention while you brought up Shang-Chi for the second time, and you made the comparisons, like the three standalone Marvel movies, you do get the connection there.
Speculation on MCU Timelines
00:17:45
Speaker
It's nice to hear the Ten Rings come up again, but to have that context now. Now we know who the Ten Rings really are, and Razorfist is out there somewhere, maybe not this early on, but he's... Wenwu is out there, and Death Dealer, it's just cool to have that context for the Ten Rings now.
00:18:04
Speaker
I'm wondering how old Shang-Chi was at that point too. Maybe his mom was still alive and he was just at the compound living his best life.
00:18:12
Speaker
Well, that was not to get off too into the weeds while we're talking about Shang-Chi. But you and I really haven't had an opportunity to explore Shang-Chi too much. But that was the thing when I was watching it. When his parents didn't meet until 96, I was really surprised. I was like, whoa, I wasn't expecting Shang-Chi to be quite that young. But then you do have to take the five-year blip into account. So I guess he was supposed to be like 25, 26 during the film's proceedings or somewhere around there.
00:18:41
Speaker
guess he's probably he he might have friend has like a law degree and everything so she's been in college for a while yeah and he was 14 when he accepted that mission from his father so hmm so technically he's three years younger than me okay so 25 if he wasn't blipped
00:19:07
Speaker
So Iron Man is supposed to take place in 2009. And if this is like six months to a year after that, we can call it 2010. So Shang-Chi should be... How old are we saying? I'm not the greatest with math here. I've just been trying to provide details so you could do the math. Probably 15.
00:19:30
Speaker
Okay. I think that that adds up because I was going to say for my kind of for it to work in my head, I think he should have already probably done that mission and be on his own and kind of establishing himself with Katie and stuff like that. So if he's 15, that sounds right about right about right. Sorry for that detour guys. We just really love that movie.
00:19:51
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's so good. I can't wait to see it again. My my Black Widow Blu-ray came in the other day, too. So I'm really excited to finally be able to read because I've only watched that once at theaters. Yeah, I've only seen it once as well. I got duked by Disney Plus. I saw I saw it on Disney Plus, but without the like the premiere access banner on there. I was like, oh, I can watch it on Disney Plus now. Then when I went to click on, I was like, not till October six. And I was like, OK. Yeah, they want to give people the opportunity to like actually purchase it first.
00:20:21
Speaker
For sure, for sure. As they should, support that movie, support Shang-Chi, support What If, and support animation deliberation. There's a contest going on right now that incentivizes you to do so. Always support animation deliberation.
00:20:32
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Other things for this episode. I did want to, I did want to call out Leslie Bibb returning as Christine Everhart as the character that she played in the first Iron Man, where she's the reporter that he slept with. We get her back. And it's funny because she actually performed as Christine Palmer in episode four.
00:20:55
Speaker
Really? She gets to play two Christines, two different Christines, but yeah, this has been her second performance in the What If series, so. I've never been so like, titillated with a conversation about Crumbele before. She's did a really good job. I was like, ooh. Nice use of titillated. I feel like I heard that word in an MC movie too. I feel like Tony Stark said it at one point. It's like I'm titillated by a proposal or something like that.
00:21:24
Speaker
I'm sure he, I'm sure he did. I'm failing right now as an MCU fan, but it definitely sounds like something Tony would say. I'm trying to find the, um, uh, they actually, they hired that actress to do like little news segments during phase two of the MCU. There was like this, where she was like covering what happened. I remember they did some before Ant-Man came out. She did like coverage of Scott Lang's like crime against his company.
00:21:50
Speaker
Yeah, WHIH news front with Christine Everhart. That's that's MCU cannon people. Yeah. Yeah, this is those little things like that that were just really cool. I can't remember. I'm not I'm not going to look at it too much. But yeah, there's episodes that talked about different things that happened throughout the MCU. Like there's a meeting with the president. They're talking about Avengers or meeting with Avengers like
00:22:15
Speaker
So the fact that she got to keep her role between a lot of phase two projects and then like still be able to stay active and you know, you have good relationships with people and you get to keep the hype going and it's cool that she's get to do stuff in phase four as well.
00:22:33
Speaker
Yeah. Agree. That's the nice thing about the MCU. It builds up this shared universe. So anytime we can pluck those people that we haven't seen in way too long, like again, sorry to bring up Shang-Chi again, but just, and spoilers for Shang-Chi by the way, but just getting to see abominations when we haven't seen him since all the way back in 2008. Incredible Hulk. I just love stuff like that.
Character Portrayals and Cultural Elements
00:22:53
Speaker
So.
00:22:54
Speaker
I agree with you. Great to see Leslie Bibb back as Christine Everhart. I do have another negative and I hate, I always hate to be negative, but as much as I've been singing the praises of Michael B. Jordan and as many of his lines like really resonated and struck a chord with me, the one that I found incredibly disappointing, it happened twice when he was on the battlefield in Wakanda.
00:23:17
Speaker
When he says Wakanda forever, like that should have sent chills down my spine. Like Eric Killmonger getting to say Wakanda forever. And both times it just landed flat for me. I felt like I could tell Michael B. Jordan was like in an area where he had to like keep his voice down or something like that.
00:23:35
Speaker
Wakanda forever. Yeah, it was really weird. Like, yeah, I don't know why they went that direction. Like, I just have nothing else to say about it, except that it just it wasn't well done. Yeah. Some of this I'm sure was done during the pandemic. So not to give them a total pass, but yeah, just
00:23:58
Speaker
We're artists, and we can just judge and just say that, hey, it's a creative decision that didn't work out. But good on you for trying, I guess. Yeah, should've done another take. Should've done another take. Like, if you couldn't decide, like, make the second one a different way, and like, oh, that one sounded better, but they like... What'd you think of General Romanda?
00:24:22
Speaker
That was so cool. That was another twist I just was not expecting. He was like, are you ready, General? Just cues to her. I was like, wait, what? She's in her prime right now? This is awesome.
00:24:36
Speaker
And she's the one that gets to say for T'Challa, and I'll never forget in the Black Panther film, when she approaches in Baku, when, again, spoilers for Black Panther as well. I'm sure everybody's watched Black Panther at this point, but when we still believe T'Challa might be dead, and I'll never forget when she's like, my son. And we know that T'Challa is actually, at least in the comics, he's her adopted son, but to still hear the way she says my son, like always,
00:25:05
Speaker
send, again, I'm talking about sending chills down my spine, but that one always sends chills down my spine. So to hear Roman, they get to say like for T'Challa, especially, you know, in the real world, we know the unfortunate passing of Chadwick Boseman. So those lines like that always just hit a little bit more than they would, I feel.
00:25:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, she had some she had some good emotional moments on that, especially like the way that Okoye and all the other people were like looking up to her and everything because she was like mounted up on one of the the sentries as she said that man, she was cool the way the spear went through two of them and she just grabbed it like ripped it out from both their heads. I was like, what a moment to just be like so powerful and then like that emotional offload at the same time, like balance, just this is very beautiful balance. Yeah, yeah.
00:25:56
Speaker
So in Wakanda, there can be a king and a Black Panther and they don't necessarily have to be both. Like you can be both, but there can be there can be a king and like somebody else is a Black Panther. So I'm curious like what the age gap between Tachaka and his wife are that like he's retired as the Black Panther, but she's still general of the Dora Milaje.
00:26:22
Speaker
Good question. He's been rocking that white hair for quite a while. So yeah. But he was Black Panther at least up until the early nineties. Yeah. I have to imagine, you know, um, taking his brother's life probably weighed pretty heavily on him and he probably retired not too long after that. Even in Black Panther, like one of the elders had the dialogue of like, we don't need a warrior right now. We need a King. True.
00:26:51
Speaker
Somewhat if that was a fact or two if he was actually dealing with I mean and now like Wakanda is on the map to like people are aware of and they think that Wakanda attack Tony Yeah, a lot of pitting people against each other. It was really dark. Yeah. Yeah, you get that propaganda It's like only you can avenge Tony Stark. Yeah General Ross is always cool to see in his minor roles. I
00:27:15
Speaker
I did have a question. Has he always been in the Air Force? And again, I feel like I'm failing as an MCU fan, but I felt like back in Incredible Hulk, he was more like, and in the comics, he was more army. I thought he was army. He was definitely wearing an Air Force uniform in this show. And maybe that's just this what if spin off. He's more connected to Rhodey and Tony in that way. In the multiverse, he switched military branches.
00:27:45
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I always thought he was Army. I didn't think about it because I don't know why I assumed it was just like Secretary Ross and he just was wearing like a DOD type uniform more than a Army specific one. I don't know. That's interesting. Yeah, those definitely were Air Force Blues. Yeah, yeah. Hmm.
00:28:11
Speaker
I'll follow up on the next episode. I'll do some deep dives on Thaddeus Ross in the MCU.
00:28:17
Speaker
Uh, let's see. Uh, I guess only other thing I really have to mention here is, uh, Awatu didn't do as much as we've seen him do in some of the episodes, but he's still making more of an appearance. And he's definitely, as far as his physical appearance goes, he, we're seeing more detail. We're getting to see the color of his flesh. I think it's, um, not to like make fun of Jeffrey Wright or anything like that, but I think you can kind of tell with the Awatu character model, like they've, they've.
00:28:44
Speaker
done the motion capture there. It kind of looks like his likeness kind of morphed with the Owatu from the comics, if that makes sense. Well, two things about Owatu.
The Watcher’s Role and Cultural Accuracy
00:28:58
Speaker
The first, do you feel like every episode they're showing him more? Like I feel like throughout the episodes he's getting a little bit more dialogue and now you're like, whereas before you would just see the silhouette in the horizon, like we're actually seeing his face. Oh yeah, definitely.
00:29:13
Speaker
It's an interesting decision. I'm wondering if it's leading to something like if that's just like something we're supposed to be tracking as we go. I have to imagine so. Before it was just the voice and then he was like a silhouette in the horizon and then now they're putting more details in the face and there's more conversation. I'm like, that's very interesting. Is this his character development?
00:29:34
Speaker
Yeah, initially he in terms of like that cosmic like intangible kind of feel that he had, he almost reminded me of the character eternity from the comics where they're basically just almost like a living constellation in that way. But in this episode, it was definitely the most detail we've seen on that like 3d model for a while to like, he was standing there.
00:29:58
Speaker
clear as day for me on the horizon, but obviously none of the other characters can see him, but I have to imagine before this is all said and done, he's going to be doing something that has lasting impact.
00:30:14
Speaker
Yeah. It was a really good decision to have Killmonger like look off to the sunset and you think that he's looking at Oatu, but then it was just the dialogue and him admiring the sunset. And I was like, like, I knew that he wasn't going to talk, but there was a part of me that like the intensity still kind of went up. Like, Oh my God, is something about to happen right now. So my, my grievance with, I guess the creatives of what if.
00:30:41
Speaker
With all the emphasis that the MCU has been doing in like pronouncing names right in everything with different cultures, uh, with what we've had with African culture and now with Eastern Asian cultures, the fact that they decided to say Afghanistan instead of Afghanistan kind of bothered me. Hmm. And Middle Easterners probably just touched me a little more than it should have, but it was like,
00:31:09
Speaker
You've been having all this emphasis for a while as a company to be more inclusive in this and that. And he's the watcher. He watches over the whole multiverse. I'm pretty sure he knows how a country's name is properly pronounced. So I kind of wish they put in a little bit effort to say it properly. That's a fair criticism. Yeah. I didn't necessarily pick up on it, but I appreciate the fact that you did.
00:31:36
Speaker
And on that note, I know we've brought up Shang-Chi a couple of times here, but you've got me wondering. I know I've been making a concentrated effort to say Shang-Chi rather than Shang-Chi. But if I messed up and said Shang-Chi at any point in time, I apologize. But I think I've made a pretty good effort to say Shang-Chi every time. But yeah, it's a work in progress. We're all striving to be better.
00:31:59
Speaker
Yeah, it's just it's really funny when I when I say things like Pakistan, Afghanistan, things like that, people like I'm sorry, where I was like, Afghanistan. Oh, yeah. Why didn't you say it like that the first time? I was like, that's the wrong way to say it. Like, yeah, we're gonna get off on a whole different tangent now. But while we're just on this, I work with this guy and his name is Amrish, but he's gotten like, I guess he's lived around here so long or just been around like
00:32:25
Speaker
ignorant people for so long. He's actually gotten the habit of just like, he goes by Amrish. And it's just like, I can't do that. So every time I see him, I call him Amrish and stuff like that. It's just such a weird, weird thing. It's just like, it's your name, man. Like tell people to say your name correctly. Yeah. It's the same thing with my sister.
00:32:44
Speaker
Her name is pronounced Mahira and people just say like Myra so much. They just kind of clunk it together to the point where that's how she introduces herself or like Mahira. Mahira is how she'll say it. And be like, hi, I'm Mahira.
00:33:01
Speaker
Like try to get people to say your name right. Like my name is two English words, zoo hair, and people butcher that all the time too. So it's like, I would rather somebody ask me how to say my name a million times than to like butcher it. Like you're not going to offend your baby. Like, what was your name again? Yeah. Agreed. Well, on the subject of say my name,
00:33:26
Speaker
This is a hell of a segue here. I was going to try and get to the stuff that we have, the other stuff that we have going on, but it's too much of a reach. So what else do you have to say about this episode? Anything else? Last twist for me when he showed up and when he hit the ancestral plane and he looks at the Panther and it turns into T'Challa and he kind of has that dialogue of criticism.
00:33:49
Speaker
That was an intense way to end the episode, like the way that he was making his points and the fact that they decided that's how it closed out was like, ooh, that was a good conversation. Was that the last time we saw Killmonger? Because I think the episode ended with Shuri and Pepper kind of joining forces, right?
00:34:11
Speaker
That was the last thing we saw in the episode is like a lot. And then a lot who says like heroes never die. They live forever. Yeah. And like the legacy they have. So yeah, I think that was right after. Yeah. Yeah. But I agree with you. It was great to have Chadwick as T'Challa kind of be able to have that exchange with Killmonger again, because they're both so great. It's like,
00:34:35
Speaker
were cousins and you did me dirty and that's coming back on you guys. Yeah. It was interesting that he didn't see his dad. He saw his cousin instead and in that beautiful garment that I never get tired of seeing. Oh, I love those purples and just seeing how the panthers just like lazily in that tree. Yeah. I would love to have that afterlife. That's cool with me, but I'm a cat person. Yeah.
00:34:56
Speaker
Yeah, that's it for me. Cool. Cool. Well, um, for my money, another stellar entry into, uh, what if, but as we mentioned, if you've got feedback, good or bad, let us know what you're thinking. Animation deliberation podcast at gmail.com is the best place to do that. But you can always hit us up at the stranded Panda chat, facebook.com slash group slash SP chat.
00:35:22
Speaker
And uh, Zuhar, do you have any other projects going on that you'd like to let the people know about? Uh, if anybody wants to help me move, greatly appreciate it. Only have a couple of weeks left and I'm ripping my hair out in this whole process. If not, I think I'm good right now.
00:35:39
Speaker
Okay. As for myself, I have been appearing on a few different things sometimes to my detriment. I need to schedule things a little bit better, but the reason I brought up Say My Name is because myself, Matthew Carroll, and Haley Hobbs, who appeared on the show last week from source pages there, we covered 2006's Casino Royale, one of the 007 movies, the first one with Daniel Craig. And we're doing all of the Daniel Craig 007 movies in preparation for No Time to Die, which drops in October.
00:36:09
Speaker
And then I've also got the pan division coverage of what we do in the shadows on FX with BVK and Karen Hufsteller. So check that stuff out. And don't forget about that review contest. It's going to be going on the entire month of September. So keep tuning in. That's T double O N I N stay.
00:36:31
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Animation Deliberation Podcast, a proud member of the Strandepanda Network. If you would like to contact us, you can email animationdeliberationpodcast at gmail.com or follow us on Twitter at animationdelib1. For this and other great shows, you can visit Strandepanda.com or join the great community that is the Strandepanda Chat Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash svchat. Tune in next time and remember, stay well.
00:37:01
Speaker
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Speaker
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