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Episode 118: I hadn't really thought of that
98 Plays4 years ago
Hello Podwalkers, and welcome back to the Goblin Lore Podcast! Today on the cast Alex sits down with returning guest Reinhardt Suarez to talk about two pieces of Magic fiction that Reinhardt wrote. Reinhardt was on the show back in episode 78 to discuss what Science Fiction in the Multiverse has looked like to date, and potential future directions. Since that time Reinhardt has worked with Wizards on pieces specifically for Strixhaven!! Discussion today looks at his experiences working with Wizards while writing those two pieces, and about writing in general. As usual the goblins meander through a number of topics, including the value of editors, dealing with imposter syndrome as a writer (or creative in general) and some differences between self publishing and traditional publishing. It’s a heavy craft-centric episode, we hope you enjoy it!
Reinhardt can be found at: https://www.thereinhardtexperience.com/
The stories Reinhardt wrote for Strixhaven are: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/chains-bind-2021-04-09 https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/mentor-2021-04-16
Please also check out Innocent Chizaram Ilo’s story that Reinhardt talked about during the cast: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/blue-green-ribbons-2021-04-23
Lastly, if you enjoy our craft heavy episodes (and you are reading this on or before June 18th, 2021) please check out 4th Street Fantasy Convention https://4thstreetfantasy.com/2021-full-schedule/
We also are proud to have partnered with Grinding Coffee Co a black, LGBT+ affiliated and owned, coffee business that is aimed at providing coffee to gamers. You can read more about their mission here. You can use our partner code for discounted coffee!
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As promised, we plan to keep these Mental Health Links available moving forward too. For general Mental Health the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) has great resources for people struggling with mental health concerns as well as their families. We also want to draw attention to this article on stigma from NAMI's site.
If you’re thinking about suicide or just need someone to talk to right now, you can get support from any of the resources below.
- National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-TALK (8255)
- Veteran's can Press 1 at anytime to be taken to the Veteran's Line
- Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741-741
- International suicide hotlines: A comprehensive resource list for people outside the US.
- IMAlive: Click Chat Now to access a live online network of volunteers through instant messaging.
- TrevorLifeline, TrevorChat, and TrevorText (LGBTQ+ crisis support): 1-866-488-7386, or text
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Transcript
Introduction & Pride Month Partnership
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, everybody. It's HobbsQ here. Before we get started with the show today, I was not able to join for it. So I just wanted to kind of do a quick little intro just to mention kind of that, yes, we're still in the middle of Pride Month. It is June. So we really wanted to give a shout out to our partners at the Grinding Coffee Company. So they are, you know, black owned LGBT-ran coffee company. So if you're looking to support an LGBT business during the month of Pride or actually all year round,
00:00:28
Speaker
Grinding Coffee Company is one that we have been so fortunate to work with. So they are a coffee company really aimed at gamers. That's kind of who their target audience was to begin with. That's who they marketed towards. They're expanding. The Kickstarter was approved. They're moving into Amazon market. I mean, they're really getting to take off, which has just been great to see. They're still so great for us to work with. You can get a discount by going to use our code. So if you just go to the Goblin Lore Pod Twitter account,
00:00:55
Speaker
under our pinned tweet, you will find the link.
Trevor Project Event Highlights
00:00:58
Speaker
I also wanted to let everybody know that if you listened last week, when Alex and I did the giveaway episode, we had mentioned that there was going to be an event this past weekend for Trevor Project. So it was a wrestling style four way match, the four clown throw down with my persona being the Krakashima, our friend Krak mixed with Sakashima, kind of two great partners.
00:01:22
Speaker
that worked out very well. I really cut down the deck in terms of making it for much more of a chaotic feel, a lot more based in coin flippings, wheels, but just for the sake of wheeling. I actually, and this is the funny part I wanted to share with everybody, I did, well we, sorry, before we get to that, I did give away two more proofs, or two more prints that Jeff Lowenstein gave us for Goblins. So we gave those away as part of the giveaway. We had a lot of supporters of the cast and a lot of listeners of the cast hang out in the chat
00:01:52
Speaker
And it was just great to see kind of the chat had a chaos function. So basically if you donated and we're going to be looking at doing this going forward with some other ones. So another the God and Lord pod will be involved with for the month of September, we're doing a giveaway or we're going to be doing a day of streaming to raise money again for Suicide Prevention Month.
00:02:11
Speaker
So with these, one of the cool features that we had for the one that we did this past weekend, was you could actually donate to do things like make a player draw a card, you know, let a player do lay of the land and go get a basic land and put in their hand. Or you could give them life, you could take away life, you could make somebody attack somebody else.
00:02:30
Speaker
Somebody came in, Kaburi, who does this, came in and did a wrath, a sorcery speed wrath for $100. I mean, it was just, they ranged from donating a dollar on up, you could do things to impact the game, which just added to the hilarity. I do say that the joke was, you know, like, kind of dumbed down for my audience to double my dollars. They all hate me for it, but they all yell holler in my tribute to Jay-Z.
00:02:55
Speaker
I joke that I took all these cards out of my deck, but I left the wheels in. I used them in a chaotic manner to the point where I cast five time spirals in a turn and managed to lose the game. But either way, the important part was we were raising money for the Trevor Project. We had matching being offered through a generous donor. We raised over $1,600 for the charity. This is something that the Goblin Warrior is going to be looking for the opportunities to get involved with moving forward for special streaming events when we can.
00:03:24
Speaker
So if this is something that you would like to see us kind of continue, if you have ideas, we'd love to hear it. But unfortunately that event drained me to the point I was just feeling so unwell on Sunday that I missed out on this recording. I am really excited for you all to
Guest Introduction: Reinhardt Suarez
00:03:39
Speaker
hear it. We have a returning guest, but I'm going to let Alex tell you the rest about that and to take it away.
00:04:15
Speaker
Hello, Podwalkers, and welcome to another episode of the Goblin Lore podcast. Today, I'm here with a special guest who's coming back to join in us again. I'm really excited about this. So I'm just going to get intro introductions out of the way real quick. Hobbs could not make it tonight. I am Alex Newman, found on Twitter at Mel underscore chronicler. And tonight we're joined by Reinhardt again. Hi, everybody.
00:04:41
Speaker
So do you want to give a quick intro for yourself? Sure. I can find you. Sure. Um, my name is Reinhardt Suarez. I am, uh, among other things, a writer and an editor, um, sometimes teacher, uh, can be found, uh, online at, uh, www dot the Reinhardt experience.com. And that's, I'm an old fogey, so that's mainly how I'm online. I don't really interact any other way. So.
00:05:10
Speaker
All right, well, we brought you back honor. I mean, always, always happy to talk to you and love talking about, you know, writing and the craft. But you've relatively recently had a couple of stories go up on Wizards website.
Writing Journey with Magic: The Gathering
00:05:26
Speaker
I have, I have. It's kind of a surreal, it's been a surreal time, you know, going through kind of the process of
00:05:37
Speaker
spoilers and then unveiling the whole Strixhaven set. But yeah, I had two stories associated with legendary characters from the set. All right. Well, do you want to talk about kind of how that happened?
00:05:57
Speaker
I do. It's kind of hard to believe like, so I guess, super ancient background is I first began playing magic, I believe, I believe it was 1994, when I was a freshman in high school. And I, it's funny to think how I would go to my local comic book shop, we didn't have a game store,
00:06:27
Speaker
by me. And yeah.
00:06:30
Speaker
Three bucks for a Legends pack, three bucks for... Oh yeah, Antiquities, cool. I'll get two of those for six bucks. Oh, Arabian Nights, that sounds really sweet. I'll get another one for those for three bucks more. So knowing how much that the prices have spiked for cards in those sets, it's very surreal. And then to think however many years later, what is it, 30?
00:06:58
Speaker
I'm 20, nearly 30 years, I think it's 28, something like that, years later, to be writing for that game you loved when you were a kid. So during most of that time between roughly the late 90s and 2016,
00:07:28
Speaker
Um, I wasn't really playing magic at all. I just, like a lot of people, life gets in the way and you know, you're sort of, you're going through school and then like, you know, graduating, getting a job, things like that. And it wasn't until, um, a friend of my wife's, uh, asked her like, Hey, do you know anyone who plays magic? And she's like, no, but I think my husband might want to try. And I'm like, yeah, I would love to. Um.
00:07:58
Speaker
And then, you know, I was kind of establishing back the relationship with the game that I've always had, kind of in the back of my mind, I was remembering like, my, my friend's direct damage deck, as he called it, with 20, with literally 20 lightning bolts in it. I remember decks like that. I started playing around the same time. Yeah, yeah. And his meanest deck was his Kudzu deck.
00:08:25
Speaker
Yeah, we didn't get to play anything. So one of the things that has always attracted me to any kind of media, whether it be comic books or RPGs or things like that, is the story. And so as I got interested in playing the game to kind of associate with people and just meet people in my community, I started re-exploring the story that had developed
00:08:55
Speaker
all during the time that I was away. And it was a lot of story. And it was really cool. I'm like, wait, you know, the first thing like, Oh, planes walkers, aren't we the planes walkers? No, there are these characters that are planes walkers, you know, like,
00:09:08
Speaker
Oh, okay. These are interesting. These are new cars that I'm not familiar with and just learning all those things and getting really interested in, you know, reading summaries online and watching YouTube videos, explaining about the different characters and their relationships. And, you know, I was just a player. I really love the game and really like to talk to my friends about it.
00:09:34
Speaker
And I think it was, was it? Man, I think it was last year where I happened to spot an open call for, I think it was open call for writers of color to submit short stories or story samples to Wizards editorial team and
00:09:58
Speaker
You know, because they're looking for new writers and they would like to give new writers a chance, writers who are probably even writers who are not as established. And that's something that's really near and dear to my heart. I really love, I love organizations. I love giving whenever I can, new writers, either advice or just opportunities to show what they have.
00:10:23
Speaker
And I said, you know what? I really love this game. I'm going to send my one fantasy story because I primarily write contemporary fiction, contemporary young adult fiction or contemporary, like just like literary fiction, really. So I have one fantasy story. So I sent it in. And about two months later, I got an email back and I was like, wait, what?
00:10:51
Speaker
The email said, hey, uh, we really like your story. Uh, you want to write for us? And I said, yeah, sure. So, um, you know, getting up to speed and it, it happened really fast where, you know, they said, okay, like, you know, we'll get you on board. We'll talk to you. We'll meet with you. So I met with editorial and editorial was really, really.
00:11:17
Speaker
very supportive, like exceptionally supportive of trying to get me up to speed, um, with what's going on and what's expected of me. And then of course, um, one of the harder parts about this whole thing is they give you all this information that you're not supposed to tell anybody. And, uh, Oh my God, like, like the first person, like one of the first people that I wanted to tell was you.
00:11:47
Speaker
Like I was like, Alex, Alex, guess what? But I, I knew, I knew I couldn't do that because it would all come tumbling out of my mouth and it would be really awful. Like I'd get in trouble, like lots and lots of trouble. So.
00:12:00
Speaker
So that's how I got into it. And then if you want to go on talking about the actual process. Yeah, that would be great. Before we go too far, I do want to just, for people who are listening, if they're interested, so the two stories you wrote. The two stories I wrote are for the Strixhaven set. And therefore, the characters Dina,
00:12:24
Speaker
and Quintorius. So it's Dina, who is part of the Witherbloom College, and Quintorius, who's part of Lorhold College. Yep. And if you're looking for him, Dina's story is the chains that bind is the title of that, and then the mentor. The mentor, yes. And how do you pronounce that character one more time? Quintorius? Quintorius. Okay, thank you. And then we'll try to get links to those in our show notes too. So yeah, that aside,
00:12:53
Speaker
Ged, do you want to talk about what, you know, kind of the actual approach of writing these stories? Sure. What it was like to work with Wizards? So working with Wizards editorial really was quite a pleasure. They have a fairly large editorial team from what I can tell. And they really, I mean,
00:13:19
Speaker
I don't know what anyone else's experience with Wizards editorial is, but you know, I think they really, really go above and beyond to try to help prep me to, you know, understand what they want, understand like the parameters of, you know, what is an acceptable story to them, you know, as far as like,
00:13:45
Speaker
word counts and things like that style, like they have a very, a lots of lots of notes about that. And as far as the story, though, like it, they, they give a lot of leeway, which was really cool. It was something that was really enjoyable, but also frightening. Which is, you know, it was a conversation. It was like, Oh, you know, we have this character.
00:14:10
Speaker
And she, you know, she or he does this or that. And these are the main points of the character arc. But everything that kind of connects them together and the ultimate ending to it, that's really up to you. And a lot of the details, it's kind of up to you, because especially when it's a plane that has not been seen before, a lot of the details kind of flow from editorial
00:14:37
Speaker
in kind of an umbrella way, a large way, a macro way. But the individual writers really can kind of add their flavor. And I think that really helped to give each college in this case, a particular feel. And that was, I thought that was really well done, like really cool as someone who was excited to read the other stories that I hadn't written.
00:15:04
Speaker
I loved that they were completely different voices and I think so highly of all the writers that were on the Strixhaven, you know, I was able to talk to most of them. Well, yeah, I was able to talk to a couple of them at least. And I just love that we were all different. And I think that gave Strixhaven a nice, I don't know, it was such a nice variety and an authentic
00:15:33
Speaker
diversity of voices, I guess. Yeah, and not only I mean, it's really nice to hear that just in general for for magic, but like, especially a college, it feels like a good place to have that that variety of voices and variety of experiences to express that to sort of match that experience. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that was that was a cool and right call, I think.
00:15:59
Speaker
Uh, so, um, as far as kind of how I approached, um, writing these stories. So I was first given the Dina story and kind of just this, again, the overall broad strokes were there, but then I had to think about it. And like, again, I, one of the things, uh, that I think writers, when we get together and we talk about almost all the time is, um, something that, uh,
00:16:29
Speaker
we like to call imposter syndrome. And imposter syndrome for anyone who's not familiar is the notion or the feeling that even though you've kind of attained a certain level or you've gotten an opportunity, you don't feel that you belong there, you don't feel that you deserve that opportunity. And sometimes if you let it get to you, it can derail you, it can kind of
00:16:57
Speaker
cause anxiety or exacerbate anxiety that you already have or any number of those things. And it can be really difficult because when you're engaging in a creative pursuit, it feels so intimate. It's something that's part of you and you're scared that you can't do yourself justice and you're definitely scared that you're not going to be able to do, in this case, the property justice.
00:17:27
Speaker
Yeah, and a common experience of imposter syndrome that I hear described a lot and have and have experienced myself as the the fear or the the feeling that you're going to be found out. Oh my gosh, that someone you shouldn't be in this position and eventually somehow someone's going to realize it and then say nope, you don't we're gonna we're taking that back. Sorry, we didn't that shouldn't have been there. I
00:17:55
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, and I don't think you outgrow that fear. No, but it is just so, there's a lot of words for it, but maybe draining or distracting is kind of what I'm going for, is sometimes when you're trying to do that creative thing, even when you know, even when you're aware that that is a thing that happens, that isn't.
00:18:19
Speaker
real, you still have that in the back of your head, like, if I'm going to be found out, and it's so hard to focus on the stuff you're supposed to be doing. You have that feeling in your head that, well, I need to do I need to hide, I need to do something to obfuscate it to make them not realize that I don't belong here. But it's
00:18:40
Speaker
Absolutely. It's just such wasted energy. It absolutely is. And I think something that's helped me actually is, I'm not a full-time writer.
Balancing Writing and Teaching
00:18:53
Speaker
In my day job, I would work with university professors to create online classes for them, taking their content
00:19:08
Speaker
their lessons, putting them online, creating multimedia, creating interactive objects or like little programs to facilitate learning. And something that you have to do is you have to create just an abundance of content that you are completely unfamiliar with. So in my case, it would be nursing. So it's a lot of medical jargon. It's a lot of like,
00:19:37
Speaker
just everything how to how to conduct all these different um uh you know processes and and uh examinations like i'm not trained in that i don't know it i have to learn it on the fly get the language right in time for the class to open and that that kind of like just
00:20:02
Speaker
rigor. You know, I had no choice. That's my job. That kind of rigor kind of reinforced in me is like, yes, I absolutely have imposter syndrome. I do not belong here. However,
00:20:15
Speaker
you still have to do this. And you just have to do the best you can. And I, I literally always have to say that to myself whenever I sit down. And I had to say that to myself when I had to when I sat down to write, you know, these stories is there are going to be some, you know, long time
00:20:42
Speaker
magic readers or long-time fantasy readers who will detect that I'm not exactly the most versed on fantasy tropes or fantasy dynamics that really are endemic
00:20:58
Speaker
to the genre. It's just, I like fantasy, I like reading fantasy, but it's just not something I've written very much of. So it's not, it's like a new toolset. And I think fantasy authors are amazing, amazing for their ability to world build.
00:21:18
Speaker
contemporary authors kind of we have our world it's all around us because it's sort of like the default it's like you get to use the default map in your game but fantasy writers that you know have to build that map from scratch every time so it was it was very daunting so I had to definitely tell myself well you're here now you're just gonna have to do it so the the first step in what Wizards
00:21:49
Speaker
ask you to do is to create an outline, just a general outline of what you think the story is going to, like the arcs of the story and the general rundown of what the plot is. So I would, I did that. And my, the problem I think with me is my outlines tend to be really, really long, like honestly longer than the story itself.
00:22:17
Speaker
Um, because I'm very, very long winded. Uh, they, uh, I don't think there's a problem with that. I think every writer has their own preference and they, they seem to be very amenable to whatever preference you have. Um, so, you know, there's a back and forth on that, you know, and then once that's approved, then it's right. The first draft.
00:22:41
Speaker
Um, you have a certain amount of time to write the first draft. You have, you have, it's, there's a regimented deadline and this is really good to help keep. You know, your pace and cause, you know, when you have to get things in, um, and then revisions and then, you know, you send it back again or you, you write it, you write your second draft or you write your revised draft, send that in their last minute changes. And then it goes to proofread and go.
00:23:10
Speaker
And that's kind of how it went. On paper, that's how it goes. In your writing room, at your writing desk, there's a lot of thrashing. Definitely, I had a lot of pacing. There was a lot of complaining to my wife about how I'm inept. A lot of hugging of my daughter, telling her that her daddy is
00:23:39
Speaker
you know, I wish her daddy was better. But at the end, you know, I got them through and I got them in a form that I liked, you know, and that's the most important thing, the form that I think the editorial deemed was right for the character.
00:24:06
Speaker
Yeah. So were you working on because you with two stories, were you working on them like concurrent to each other? No, for that. I was I was first asked to do the Dina story.
Challenges in Character-Driven Stories
00:24:19
Speaker
And then after that, was asked to do the the Quintoria story. Okay. And yeah, I think just it was just a timing thing. Okay, so so the Dina one had been done? Yes. Okay, that's interesting.
00:24:36
Speaker
That's especially with the timelines for how things work for Wizards. Like they posted, I don't know, a couple of weeks apart, maybe not even that. But because that's just how they do their marketing push. They're like, OK, it's Strixhaven season. We're going to just every, you know, so often we're going to have stuff coming out every day for different articles and stories and things. But that's well after it's all been done, well after, you know, putting things together. So just kind of
00:25:04
Speaker
Curious what the how the the timeline look there for your your son Yeah, I mean I have to I had to have the the drafts and far in advance of those because there's lots of prep time that I'm not privy to but You know, I again like in the day job. I know that so many things Have to be set up after you have you finalize content
00:25:29
Speaker
So, you know, that all that stuff has to be done. Um, you know, getting it up in HTML, designing it, associating it with, uh, with images and programming or the, you know, the HTML and all that stuff. So that takes time as well. Um, and they, of course, it has to be timed with the, with all the spoilers and everything too. Yep. Okay. Cool. So was there anything more you kind of wanted to talk about with those?
00:25:59
Speaker
I think going back a little bit to the specific characters, it was really interesting being given both Dina and Quintorius. It was interesting because a lot of the other magic planes, there's that history.
00:26:27
Speaker
And you can go read all about Ravnica, all about Innistrad. You kind of can get a feel for what the tone is. This, because there wasn't any present existing set. There was no previous set. We just had the materials that we were given. I felt that, okay,
00:26:57
Speaker
Um, as far as tone goes, you know, I kind of had to like, and, you know, in talking with the, with editorial, um, this kind of confirmed it, but I was sort of like, well, I, you know, I'd write young adult material. I'm thinking that this is kind of going to be along that line, you know, skewing a little bit older young adult, just, you know, kids in college. Um.
00:27:26
Speaker
And striking that tone is difficult because young adult spans from freshman year of high school into college. And that's a big spectrum of years and a lot changes during that time. Exactly. Very different experiences from the beginning to end of that time period. Yeah. And I have to say that
00:27:54
Speaker
I'm because I came because I had that experience with magic and because I remember it so fondly from from when I was a kid. Like it was very hard for me to not like fan out. It's very hard for me to not just want to do everything, you know. Yeah. For example, in in the Gina story,
00:28:24
Speaker
Dina's story reading it over and reading over generally what her character was like and what her character was going to go through. One of the things that had kind of sparked in my mind was like, oh, this journey mirrors the journey of another character that we all know and sometimes love, sometimes hate.
00:28:49
Speaker
And so I said in my outline, I said straight out, all right, I'm going to do this thing. And this is something that I think writers need to know at least so when I'm editing something and I'm editing a writer, I want that writer to push as hard as they can.
00:29:14
Speaker
Um, meaning like you have this idea, just go with that idea, like dive into it and push it as hard as you can, because it's my job to push back. And like, I want your inspiration and I want that energetic for, and I want your, your enthusiasm and I can temper it as an editor to say like, all right, this let's back this up, but I can't drag you forward as easily.
00:29:45
Speaker
So in my mindset, I said, OK, these editors don't know me very like they don't, you know, we just met. So I'm going to take a chance and just like flat out in in the in the outline say, I think that this character has a lot of similarities in her journey in a character journey to Liliana. Liliana is in the set. I would I would really like to to hammer that. I would really like to just
00:30:14
Speaker
What if she's in there? What Liana's in at the school? Like we can merge these stories. We can relate these stories. And I, I expected them to say no, because, you know, and I would have been fine with it. I would have been completely fine, but I would have kicked myself if I didn't say it because I was so excited about it. Yeah. And and, you know, not only, um,
00:30:44
Speaker
Not only did they let me do that, but I got to work with Jenna Helen, who wrote Liliana's original origin story, and I was like, oh, I guess it's okay then. Okay, cool. That was really fun for me.
00:31:08
Speaker
I there were certain sections definitely there were there were certain sections that I was so tempted to just go way too deep into the lore. And I had to scale back because I'm like, there's a really big balance between giving like, really enfranchised fans like a little like delicious morsel.
00:31:33
Speaker
and versus alienating a new reader who is like, I don't what's going on. I don't I don't get this. And that's I definitely don't never wanted that. And I don't think I think if I did that, the editorial editorial would be like, let's cut this. But like, I wanted to bring up there were characters like really obscure characters from Leona's past that I wanted to name check.
00:31:58
Speaker
I'm like, oh, this is my chance. This is my chance. I got to do it. But, you know, I have a modicum of self control. That's good. Yeah. Just enough. You kind of get through and then next time you can push it, right? Right. Right. Just enough. And then writing the Quintoria story was a different challenge because
00:32:24
Speaker
One thing that we get in advance is we get to see a lot of the featured art pieces that go along with the characters.
00:32:35
Speaker
So we get to see the cards that the characters are featured on. We don't get to see any of the mechanics, which is really good, because that's not anything that we need to know. There's only bad income of that. Yeah, but just be more secrets you'd have to keep. Oh my god, yes. So from what I could tell from Quintorius' art,
00:33:02
Speaker
is that his journey was very, very specific. You know, he in on the card expel, he gets expelled from a military Academy, you see Quintorius wearing armor. Clearly, he's not wearing armor in any other card. In Oh, what's what's the? What's that other card? There's another card where we see Quintorius scaling down
00:33:32
Speaker
from a rope, or he's on a rope dangling in front of this giant Lakshadon statue. And that's a very specific scene. So if you look at Dina's art, her feature cards is more stylized. They're more like kind of, you can fit those particular scenes in a lot of different scenarios. Quintorius's were very specific in terms of the art.
00:34:00
Speaker
So I was like, okay, this is like puzzle pieces. I have to figure out how this works together. Um, and man, I'm glad I, I mean, I haven't cut my hair, but I probably don't need to cause I tore enough of it out. Um, you know, I think that card you were talking about was thrilling discovery, thrilling discovery through the magic of Scryfall. I was able to find that. And it's beautiful. Like, oh my God, beautiful, beautiful art. Um.
00:34:29
Speaker
And but very specific. And so, you know, I think, you know, it's I think that's one of the things that that editorial and the writers really wanted to hit home is like, there needs to be a meshing of all this material. Like, this is very much multimedia storytelling. So it needs to synergize. God, I hate that word. It needs to work together.
00:34:56
Speaker
these were, please, kick me whenever I say that word. Oh, see, and that's, that's one of my favorite, like, stupid jokes I make every so often. Just random something or another. Two people, like, managed to work together or something. And I'll just be like, in the corporate world, we call that synergy. And then people roll their eyes at me and I get to laugh a little bit.
00:35:17
Speaker
in the corporate world, I call them a pie in the face. It gets used a lot to the point where it has no real meaning.
Inspiration from Literature & Mythology
00:35:30
Speaker
It's really, really important to not contradict what is shown on the cards. It was a challenge for me because
00:35:42
Speaker
You know, that, that spends a lot of time. Um, but we, I wanted to tell a very intimate story, um, a story that was, you know, different somewhat than, than the, the Dina story, something a little bit more humor in it and something unexpected, you know? Um, uh, one of the things that I think writers also do, um, when we're stuck, which is, I was stuck often, um, in running ways.
00:36:12
Speaker
is we look to other works for inspiration. Sometimes our favorite books, our favorite movies, our favorite songs even. So both of these stories actually found this anchoring in two of my favorite writers. The Dina story really echoed
00:36:41
Speaker
the book, The Hour of the Star by Clarice Luspector. And she's a Brazilian writer who lived in, I think, the 1950s in Brazil. Yeah. And this was her final book and it was a meditation on her own mortality in this kind of weird way. And I felt that that was really something that I wanted Dina to think about, which is, you know,
00:37:10
Speaker
What is it to what is it to face the end for a being that, you know, she, her soul, like dry ads on on the plane of our caveats, don't
00:37:27
Speaker
their souls don't transition to a higher plane. They just get recycled into new bodies as new dryads who maybe retain somewhat of the essence of all the other dryads that came before them, but they start with new memories. And so what is it for someone like that to grapple with mortality and the end and death? What is it not only yours, but the people around you?
00:37:57
Speaker
It's kind of like the Highlander situation where, you know, Conor McCloud, in the movie Highlander, Conor McCloud doesn't necessarily have to worry about dying, but he's seen so much death and like, in people around him, sometimes dying in violent ways, sometimes just dying of old age. What is it like for Dina to kind of grapple with this?
00:38:20
Speaker
to sort of give up that idea that everything has to be preserved. Everything has to be returned to some idyllic state, which wasn't actually probably idyllic. It was just how it was. And with Quintorius, it's about grappling with memory and about how do you honor those who you love.
00:38:47
Speaker
especially if you feel like you aren't worthy of it. As someone who is not from an elite family, a rich family, or a family with lots of connections to Strixhaven, how does he leave a mark to make his parents proud? Because he's already failed once. He's failed out of the
00:39:15
Speaker
military academy. So what does he do, if anything, to honor that memory, and it really is in encountering the most unlikely kind of mentor, that he somehow like, allows himself to have that empathy to, to open himself up, I guess, to allow that to happen.
00:39:39
Speaker
Um, you know, and, and that, that story is really cool because I found a lot of inspiration with, um, Jorge Luis Borges. Um, the, the name Asterion actually is one of the names for the classical, uh, Minotaur and the Minotaur. I, I was like, Hmm. Like the Minotaur in many ways is, is emblematic of like a soul that's, that's kind of trapped.
00:40:09
Speaker
And I like that, I like that image, or I like that idea underneath of like, or inside or wrapped in a stereons kind of humorous demeanor, where he's got this thing that he has that makes him feel lost. And that, you know, through Quintorius' action, he finds it. And through that action, then Quintorius finds his own
00:40:37
Speaker
kind of purpose. It's just, you know, those sorts of ideas that kind of circulate and percolate in your mind are things that, like, I hope that came out in those stories. That was the intention. I don't, I'm not sure how effective that really came across, but that was the intention. So, I'll be completely honest. I have not read the Dina story. I did read the Quintuaries. I
00:41:05
Speaker
follow the wizard's stuff inconsistently. And I just, I happened to run into the Quintorius one, which is when I saw it on the website. And it took me a couple of minutes of like staring at the name and the picture. And I'm like, I think that's Reinhardt. I think that's the Reinhardt I know. And then I sent you a message and we- Yeah, there's only one. There's only one of me, so.
00:41:25
Speaker
But yeah, I said I did I haven't read the quintaurus and I'll say that that did come through a lot just the The two of them being very different people but being able to work together to help each other find something together and that kind of That thing they found up together, you know, this one thing Did was very different to each of them, but it was the thing that they both kind of needed. Yeah Yeah, absolutely and
00:41:55
Speaker
I, I just, I like that it's, it's like a very, um, quest oriented, you know, storyline plot line. Um, but it, it, it's, I like the classicness of it, but I also like the idea of kind of undermining, you know, what a mentor is supposed to be. Um, and, and having the mentor question their ability to do that, you know, in the same way, it's imposter syndrome.
00:42:25
Speaker
Yeah, yeah and and just as a, as a step back even from from the story specifically but just in general like one of the things I've talked about with Strixhaven is how I appreciate the approach to these schools being.
00:42:41
Speaker
in front of these schools being different than the approach of the same color pairs in the guilds and how we're getting to see a different representation of these colors. And I think the Quintaria story did a really good job representing this very different red-white pairing. I mean, especially there's even a little bit of that echo with his history with the military academy that is like the Boros, except now he is in this archaeology school
00:43:09
Speaker
that is in that same color pair, but it's a very different representation, a very different presentation of those two colors. Right. It's almost like a signal that, you know, this may be the same color pair, but it isn't like the Boros Legion, you know, which is I thought was really cool. And, you know, it's, it's really interesting to actually play, like in limited, you know, a Boros deck,
00:43:39
Speaker
versus a lower hold deck because they operate completely differently. Yeah. On that, unfortunately, I'll have to take your word for it because I have not played much magic last year. It's been a tough week to try to do that.
00:43:57
Speaker
I just I thought that was really cool. And your story really fits that whole as part of that whole movement that they did with with Strixhaven. And that's something I really appreciate both about the story and just that set. Well, did we do you want to talk about some sort of general writing stuff? I do. I mean, I think that I mean,
00:44:26
Speaker
One of the things that I think about is that imposter syndrome in terms of or in relation to opportunity. I wish and I think we all wish that everyone got opportunities to show their stuff. And the truth is that not everyone does.
00:44:52
Speaker
A lot of times it's about opportunity or that's right place, right time. A lot of times it's just about luck. And it's something that because writing and actually any other creative pursuit also entails skill. It also entails practice. We kind of confuse that
00:45:18
Speaker
to think that that's all that is needed. You know, like if we practice hard enough, if we try hard enough, we want it hard enough, we will succeed in all these ways. And it's just not true. And I think it's OK to feel discouraged because the truth is that you could be an awesome writer, but you haven't been in
00:45:48
Speaker
you haven't been given an opportunity and or you haven't been in the right place right time to have an opportunity fall into your lap and you know this is not imposter syndrome talking right now I don't think if if I think that you know could
00:46:11
Speaker
Could there have been a better fantasy writer in my position? I actually think yes, that's true.
Role of Opportunity and Luck in Writing
00:46:19
Speaker
Um, could there have been a better writer to write something in my style? No, I don't think so. And I think that's all that dynamic is always going to be the case. There can always be someone, if you have an opportunity, there can always be someone who has more skill than you, but there can never be someone who can write like you.
00:46:40
Speaker
And you're in that position because of the things that you bring as, you know, that are unique to you. Like all these different strands of your life, all these different experiences, all these different hardships and accomplishments, like all mixed together, you know, and I have to think this because otherwise nothing makes sense. I have to think that that mixture and not necessarily like,
00:47:09
Speaker
That mixture plus, I guess, the skill and experience and practice is what allowed me to have that opportunity plus a whole bunch of luck, you know? And the reason why I'm saying this is because there are a lot, a lot of talented artists and writers and all that. But a lot of them
00:47:39
Speaker
not only have imposter syndrome, but they have so much wrapped up in their creativity and in sometimes being unlucky, but sometimes actually just being in a merciless system, like publishing is a fairly merciless system in terms of actually giving, deserving people a chance a lot of times.
00:48:08
Speaker
Um, that should not, um, that shouldn't be an indictment on someone's skill. And it, a lot of times it's not. A lot of times it's like, it could even be about some strange PR thing or, oh, you're, you happen to be the cousin of this very famous person. We'll give you, you know, a book.
00:48:32
Speaker
that you know if you're in that position you might you maybe you're a good writer maybe you're not i don't know but um you were very lucky you know um but some other people who are really really really talented writers sometimes fall through the cracks which is why uh i'm super appreciative of wizards for you know putting out the word of we're gonna find these new voices we really want to give people a chance and it's something that
00:49:02
Speaker
I think that it can continue doing. I would be grateful for any other opportunity to work with magic because I really love the worlds and I really love the planes and I really love the characters. I love the old characters. I love the new characters. But what's more important is that new voices come flooding in and maybe it could be kind of a bastion of where deserving
00:49:32
Speaker
voices who haven't been given a shot, get their first shot and get their first exposure and get their first taste of something cool and great. And then they go on from there. Because sometimes all you need is that taste. All you need is that little bit to get you on that right track. I would love to see that, like the legacy of getting just a whole bunch of voices, getting new voices.
00:50:02
Speaker
in. That would be awesome if like however many years from now we see a whole bunch of just amazing fantasy authors who've got their start, you know, writing fiction for magic, how cool would that be? That would be great. That would be great.
00:50:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's really encouraging. There's, in the past few years, and even in the last few, you know, less than a year, matter of months, there have been some issues with Wizards and some things that we haven't been a big fan of.
00:50:35
Speaker
It's nice to see these positive things. And we've talked about some of the negative things. So I like to be able to then talk about these positive things and say that this was a great opportunity for new writers. They're trying to bring in fresh voices and give people these opportunities. I'm really glad that that happened. I'm really glad that you were one of those people.
00:50:55
Speaker
Oh, so am I. But, and, you know, I wanted to talk about one specific writer. I think the name is Innocent Elo. I think it's the same who wrote a Zimone story. Again, I come much more from literary fiction. And so to to read, you know, magic story, but with
00:51:20
Speaker
all the flair of a Nigerian writer. Nigerian writers like, you know, Chris Abani is the one that comes to mind. They have such unique voices, and no other kind of region writes like Nigerian writers. And it's like a gift.
00:51:43
Speaker
for me to, it was a gift for me to read that because it was just, I'm like, this is two of my worlds colliding. How cool is this? This is, oh, it was, it was just, you know, because I could never write like that. I could, it's just not the writing style, you know, there's an American style and I'm an American and I write like an American, but
00:52:06
Speaker
you know, someone from a different region and it was grown up in a literary tradition, Nigerian writing, it was just great. And that's what I want to see more of. I want to see all these writers from all these different places to give magic that true, like, international flair, I guess.
00:52:29
Speaker
Yeah, that's excellent. Again, like I said, I haven't been keeping up on all the things. I have not read this story, but I've got it pulled up. We're going to try to get that in the show notes for this episode too if listeners want to check that out. The story name here is Blue Green Ribbons. Blue Green Ribbons, yeah. It's really, really cool.
00:52:54
Speaker
um yeah it's it's got this magical realism uh this it's it's just really cool that sounds i'm nerding out about it that sounds really cool i mean just looking at like the first opening little paragraph because i have the the window pulled up and like it fits and what i was talking about with the
00:53:12
Speaker
different expression of the color pairs, the, you know, the, the quandrix with their mathematics, their, their the blue greens, but instead of making them the bio majors, you give wizards gave that black green, because that's also something that they kind of do. But now we have a different expression of blue and green and looking at sort of the mathematics in the world and the natural
00:53:35
Speaker
vertices and things in terms that I can't use properly. So I mean, I kind of leave it there. But I just thought it was such a cool way to express, again, express this color pair in a very different way. Right. Right. And I think, you know, this is this Strixhaven set, I definitely hope that this isn't the last we see of it.
00:53:54
Speaker
Um, I think that there's an excellent bedrock here to make like really, really cool stories. Um, so I'll be excited to see whether or not I'm, I'm, I'm involved. I'd be excited to see what happens. I'll always feel ownership over these characters. Of course, it's not mine, but you know, you were, you were a part of, of building this, this place so that that's, that's really cool. Yeah.
00:54:21
Speaker
Yeah, we'll see. There is at least one planeswalker who spent an extended period of time just hanging out there at the school teaching. They've got a library that's supposed to contain spells from all over the multiverse, which means these people are aware of the multiverse, which is not common in magic fiction. Most citizens of various planes do not realize that there are just all these other planes out there. So there's some cool ties to potentially make
00:54:50
Speaker
Strixhaven more than just a school on this one plane Depending on what happens with sort of the the metaphysics of the multiverse as we go forward because right now Interplaner travel doesn't really exist anymore But right it depending on what Wizards wants to do and even if that isn't a direction they go there there's definitely a lot of place for this this world and this school to come back in Story and in magic sets. I think so and I think you know in general
00:55:19
Speaker
the concept of the Wizards brand of Magic School. I think it was very popular as far as the look, the feel. I think it was really taken well.
00:55:43
Speaker
If you don't have anything else, I've got one quick thing to talk about, unless I said if there's anything else you want to
Editorial Guidance and Character Focus
00:55:50
Speaker
talk. Let's see. I mean, oh, man. You know, we could talk a little bit about if we back up, you know, to working with editorial with the Quintoria story.
00:56:13
Speaker
So with this, the chat, I spoke about the challenge, right? Of kind of piecing it together. My initial idea. So again, this is, this is definitely geared more toward writers. Um, my initial idea was big and crazy. I'm not going to go into it any more than that. Cause I don't think I should, but it was big and crazy. Like just think of the craziest thing you could possibly make it. And it was big and crazy. Um, and what editorial did was say like.
00:56:42
Speaker
Okay. Get a grip. You know, this is, this is not, not Lord of the Rings. Um, like, you know, focus on the focus on the character. What are they, what are the character relationships? What are the important things, you know, that, that kind of unlock the character interaction with the school and, you know, and interface with the art. You know, I sort of had to step back.
00:57:09
Speaker
And that's where being a big fan sometimes can hamper you, is that you get so excited about just throwing the kitchen sink into it. And a really good editor, and I really view editorial that I worked with is excellent. They can very politely and calmly and supportively say,
00:57:37
Speaker
What the heck is wrong with you? Yeah. That's good. That's very important. That's why you talk a lot about creative endeavors. It's so important to have other people who can help, whether it's a collaborative thing or it's a thing you're working on yourself and you're working with editors. It's important to have those people who are there with you on the journey.
00:58:05
Speaker
who can go along with you and then hit a certain point, but like, no, no, no, no. You want to go way down there and that's too far right now. That's out of scope to use more corporate terminology. We got to pull this back. Yeah. Yeah. That's always important. I think especially in fiction where your imaginations are running wild and you can... Why not ten planes? Why not ten dragons? Yeah.
00:58:34
Speaker
Yeah, no, but it's and having somebody who is outside of yourself to be able to step in there. But also, it allows you as you were saying earlier, you know, it lets you kind of not have to internally edit yourself as much, you can just go for it knowing you've got somebody to support you, who will step in, if they need to step in, yeah, and say this is too far. Yeah, yeah. And that
00:59:03
Speaker
believe me, that's, that's a gift that any writer, I mean, just, you know, just raises their hands to the sky and just thanks. Thank you, thank you, wizard editors, for being awesome. I guess, you know, if anyone is listening, because you are, you are very good.
00:59:22
Speaker
And maybe this is an entirely different podcast as I'm looking at this, but it's an interesting speaking personally as someone who has done writing but has never published anything. So I'm speaking entirely outside of my own personal experiences, but it's
00:59:38
Speaker
That is a topic when you look at traditional publishing versus self-publishing. And like you were saying, Reinhard, a lot of times in traditional publishing, it's hard for people to get those opportunities. Self-publishing, you, for the most part, can kind of drive the opportunity though. You can publish where it goes from there is more difficult because you don't always have
01:00:02
Speaker
that same support structure of the traditional publishing. And so it's a balance of what works for whom and in which circumstances. Yeah, if you're putting out your own stuff, you have to be diligent about checking yourself. You have to seek out those different voices from yours because
01:00:27
Speaker
you're not going to be able to see your blind spots because they're blind spots. You just can't do it. It doesn't matter how good of an editor you are, you can never ever, ever edit yourself. So yeah, in traditional publishing, it's assumed and largely is the case that you have someone that's dedicated to your project that will give you that leeway, but also give you the leash when you need it.
01:00:57
Speaker
But yeah, you just, it falls upon you as if you're self publishing to, to get someone to do that for you, whether you rope in a friend or hire some money. Um, it just, you can't, you, you know, I couldn't have done, I couldn't have
01:01:17
Speaker
gotten these stories in the way they are by myself, they would have been much, much worse. Yeah, and that's something I think we talked a little bit about before we started recording. But then as we were talking about imposter syndrome, we kind of bounced back and forth to other things, which is great. Like that's part of why we love that's part of the how we do the show. It's more of the flow of the conversation. But to kind of get back to that, that idea of often imposter syndrome,
01:01:45
Speaker
the, I don't know that the main cause or but a piece of it, a component of it, one of the things that makes it sort of nefarious, so nefarious is that generally, if you're creating and you're doing something, it's because you like the thing that you're doing.
Overcoming Imposter Syndrome
01:02:01
Speaker
And so you often have already consumed so many stories or so many books or whatever it is, you are immersed in that world. And so you have an idea, at least for you, what is good and what is successful.
01:02:15
Speaker
But when you're doing your initial, you know, your initial work on it, it's not gonna look like that. No. And you have to get kind of get through that internal editor, you have to get through that sense of, of whatever it is in your head that this isn't good enough, because I mean, frankly, at that point, it isn't. But the whole point is, you do you do the work, you go through the steps, and then
01:02:38
Speaker
you involve someone else. So if it's an editor in a traditional sense, if it's, you know, talking to friends or people that you're hiring for various, you know, sensitivity readings or whatever, as a free, you know, as a self published or freelancer in different capacities, there's other people are going to be involved and there's multiple steps to this process. But usually you don't see that for the finished works, you just see the finished work. And it's so hard to learn how to put your head in that space.
01:03:06
Speaker
That's the hardest part, I think it's absolutely the hardest lesson to learn because you constantly unlearn it because you when you read something that's finished.
01:03:20
Speaker
You're like, oh, it should be like that. And then you sit down to write and it comes out chicken scratch. And you're like, what is wrong with me? I don't know. I can't do it. And it's because you want that end result so much. At least this is how I feel. I want that end result so much. I get impatient with myself to, you know, to be in the process versus being in the process versus like, I know I'm on
01:03:49
Speaker
stage A, you know, and go stage B, C, D, et cetera. And that's just the case. You know, I used to teach writing to high schoolers. And that's one of the things that I always try to say is you can't, if something, if a project means something to you,
01:04:18
Speaker
Like there are going to be days that you're just going to think that you're the worst. Like you have no talent. You should go just be a fry cook forever. That's natural. It happens to me, you know, during the writing of these stories, it definitely happened to me. You know, there were like times when I was like, what am I doing? They made a giant mistake. But, you know, it's about
01:04:49
Speaker
being OK with feeling that way, trying to understand and trying to like understand yourself, you know, say to yourself, like part of this is me talking myself down because it's just something that I do. It's something that a lot of creative people do. I need to get through it. And when I'm on the other side, I'm going to reassess. And then I need to keep going. I just need to keep going.
01:05:19
Speaker
It's a process to the mindset to kind of do that. And I'm not gonna purport to be a master at that. I'm far from that. But you have to do it. I think there's no other way. If there was another way, I would love to know it, because I don't know it.
01:05:38
Speaker
If there's some magic solution to imposter syndrome, that would be great. Oh my gosh, that would pay a lot of money. The conversations I hear from people who are so successful that I feel like it should be gone at that level. If I was there, it isn't. It's the same thing. You're the same person, I guess, regardless of where you're at. Yeah. I don't know.
01:06:01
Speaker
I don't know if that encourages people or discourages people. I think it should encourage people. Like the greatest, your favorite writer goes through exactly the things that you go through. It will be okay. You can get to the other side. I plead with everybody who wants to write. Your voice is the most important thing because no one else can provide it.
01:06:26
Speaker
literally no one in the history of the universe can write the thing that you're writing. So we need you to write it. That's my main message.
01:06:38
Speaker
That's excellent. And if there wasn't something else going on, that would be a perfect place to end this podcast. So instead, I'm going to use that to segue to the last thing I want to talk about very briefly and give you an opportunity to jump in if you want to talk about it a little bit. But I mentioned this in our episode that went up last week.
01:06:58
Speaker
I want to say it again real quick. Fourth Street Fantasy Convention is the place that I met Reinhardt. It's a con that we go to every year. It's local to us, but that's not easy for everyone to get to Minneapolis. But this year it's online, so everyone can get to it. They are asking for donations, but it's pay what you can. So even if you don't have a lot of disposable income right now,
01:07:20
Speaker
You can still take part in this thing if this is something that's interesting to you, the discussions about the craft and writing. And there are just some really knowledgeable and entertaining people who are part of this convention. And I just want to encourage everyone who's interested in this to check that out. It is going on the weekend of June 18th through the 20th, so that should be going up. It should be happening a few days after this episode goes up.
01:07:49
Speaker
Yeah, and let me piggyback off you, Alex. This is one of the coolest
01:07:59
Speaker
one of the coolest conventions you could go to as a writer of fantasy. I went to it not writing fantasy because I wanted to learn more about writing fantasy. And I'm just scrolling a little bit through some of the writers. I mean, there are just some all-time greats here. One notable writer that I want to bring up is A.T. Greenblatt, who will be on one of the panels. And I believe
01:08:27
Speaker
A.T. Greenblatt wrote the main story, the main storyline for, is it Zendikar, the latest Zendikar set? Am I correct? Uh, I'm not sure. Me. Again, I have to admit on air that as a person who hosts a magic podcast, I'm not paying as much attention to magic these days as I used to, but lots of things are going on.
01:08:58
Speaker
I think she did write one of the more recent sets. So that's kind of the tie-in to Magic there.
01:09:09
Speaker
So if there's any more to entice you, there it is. And if you do want to just get some more information, we'll have their website and the show notes, or you can just search Fourth Street Fantasy Convention. And they have their full schedule posted right now. So you can just see what they're planning to do for this year. And if it's interesting, register and attend some of the stuff. If not, then don't. That's fine too.
01:09:37
Speaker
And that's our show for today. You can find the host on Twitter. Hopskew can be found at Hopskew. And Alex Duman can be found at Mel.com. Send any questions, comments, thoughts, hopes, and dreams to at goblinmoorpod on Twitter or email us at goblinmoorpodcast at email.com.
01:09:56
Speaker
If you want to support your friendly neighborhood gospel, the cast can be found at patreon.com. Opening and closing music by Vindergarten, who can be found on Twitter at Vindergarten, or online at vindergarten.bandcamp.com. Logo art by Steven Raffaeo, who can be found on Twitter at Steve Raffaeo.
01:10:18
Speaker
Goblin Lore is proud to be presented by Hipsters of the Coast as part of their growing Vorthos content as well as magic content of all kinds. Check them out on Twitter at hipstersmtg or online at hipstersofthecoast.com. Thank you all for listening and remember goblins like snowflakes are only dangerous in numbers.