Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to another episode of Apocalypse Duds. I am your host, one of your hosts, Connor Fowler. And I'm Matt Smith. And today we are talking about some stuff. I know Matt has some things to share.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, we'll get into that in a second. But yeah, hope everyone's doing well. And yeah, thanks for the listens. Thank you for the early ensembles, old fits, whatever the fuck we're calling it, submissions that we've gotten so far.
Speaker: If you have not listened to the previous episode or seen our Instagram post, we want to see your old Fitbit. Send them to us via DM at apocalypseduds on Instagram or apocalypseduds .gmail .com. But we're all fucking dorks and nerds here. We just like taking pictures of our cute little outfits and posting them on the internet or other nerds and dorks to see. But yeah, we want to see yours.
Speaker: It's been sort of interesting, I mean, because people have said like, do you want good ones? And it's like, not exactly. Like, we just want to see what you look like in high school. Yeah. You know, we want to see what you looked like when you were a sophomore in college. Right. And you didn't have your shit together.
Speaker: Also, or you did, you know what I mean? And probably you were 20 and you had it all figured out. Right, right. And if we're being honest here, like the early days of internet clothing culture and or just posting photos of yourself on things like MakeOutClub .com, Shout out Makeout Club, Shout out Gibby.
Speaker: You know, we weren't really working with the best technology. So inevitably some of the pictures are just going to be absolute shit, but that kind of makes it better in a way. Yeah. And there just weren't the technology that we have today. It goes without saying, of course, but like, I don't know. It wasn't easy enough for me to post vidpicks until like two years ago.
Speaker: Right, right. When did you get your first smartphone? There was always, like, too much bullshit. They didn't... Yeah, you had to host it somewhere. 2007, I think. Okay, yeah. What was your first smartphone, an iPhone? No, no, no. And this is, like, embarrassing. Like, I had Windows mobile phones. Oh! And I would, like, mod them. There was a huge, there was a huge community of, like, modders online. And, like, basically everyone was trying to make their phones look like iPhones. Right, right.
Speaker: And so I finally did just get an iPhone and I've had one since, but like I had a blackjack. I had a blackjack too. I had a Samsung epics like all kinds of shit, annoying, terrible shit that it wouldn't have been easy to
Speaker: use it used to take a decent picture you know and like the lighting in your dorm room is shitty right of course you could go outside if you wanted to but I'm not I wouldn't be caught in that way right and also like if I'm remembering correctly which I my memory is is decent at best but uh
Speaker: I don't remember them having a timer option until far later in the evolution of smartphones. I think my old digital camera that I had in high school had a timer, but I don't remember the first handful of smartphones that I had having one, which makes it hard.
Speaker: The camera apps were not, I don't know, they didn't really get to a point until like a few iterations of iPhones that they were really cameras. I mean, they were just kind of phones that had cameras attached. And now they sort of are the other way around.
Speaker: My first smartphone was a Google G1 that a friend of mine was on tour and found on the street in Vegas and unlocked it and like gave it to me. That was... I remember that. Yeah, that thing sucked. I will go on record as saying that I'm not a very tech -oriented person, but the iPhone is fucking idiot -proof.
Speaker: for what I personally need it for. And so I will always be team iPhone because I'm too fucking stupid to use another system.
Speaker: Yeah, I just, I don't know. I mean, I think that the other stuff just doesn't look very good. Yeah, yeah, that too. Sadly. Like if I was - Because it would be nice to have like the illusion of competition. If I was a computer dork, like, and I wanted to jailbreak something and, you know, do all these like crazy mods on something, the iPhone is certainly not the thing you do that with. And like, I don't fault people for using things that aren't iPhones outside of the green fucking text bubble that we all collectively hate.
Speaker: But I'm not elitist about phones. iPhones are just so easy to use for me personally. That's where I'm at. Well, hey, Matt. Yes, Connor. Do you know the abbreviation for the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees? Not off the top of my head. Ask me and I'll tell you.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. Yeah, this would... It's a funny one, a funny joke. This would not be a normal episode if we didn't get a couple of dumb jokes in. So, yeah, that... Props, Connor, props. That's a good one. It's a pure point. It's a pretty... Yeah. Afs me and acts ask me. Like, that's not a stretch. That's not, like, really... It's pretty groan -worthy, but, I don't know, a normal person would not get the joke. Right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: It's it's a dad joke to a T, but I'm well, it's a union dad shout out all the Union dads That that we know and love Yeah, the they're out there. They are my friend Chris Roy Chris Roy will be a Future guest of the show and is maybe the most hilarious person I've ever known in my entire fucking life. Oh, but yeah, dude Union dad of two, but yeah the
Speaker: Wow. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I guess like given the recent wave of strikes, like that's something we got to talk about, man. Because, you know, you and I are both like working class people, union advocates and supporters, solidarity to the Writers Guild and SAG -AFTRA and the fucking Teamsters and the hotel workers in California.
Speaker: And yeah, every working ass person that's fighting for a livable wage and environment. But this shit's been like, I don't know, it's been blowing my mind like just how, you know, how much this union activity and strike authorizations and things have become like, I don't know, maybe the first time since the 70s, like in the forefront of news in America.
Speaker: So, I did see a little while ago. Yeah, I'm a little surprised at the coverage. Oh, same here, same here. But I mean, you know, if the Teamsters go on strike and the UPS pilots that I saw earlier, a news article about them saying they're not going to cross picket lines if the Teamsters strike. Like, that's a fucking big deal. That'll shut shit down.
Speaker: Yeah, we've still got USPS and FedEx and things, but I don't know if people understand the sheer volume of packages that UPS delivers and the services that they provide. That's going to be some shit if this happens.
Speaker: Although I did see a little while ago well fingers crossed fingers crossed. I did see the ups is going to come back to the table starting. I don't know this week or early next week, but I think they're. I want to say their contract ends on either the 31st of July or the 1st of August. So.
Speaker: if the UPS assholes can't get their shit together and provide air conditioning, provide a good wage for the people that are making them just sack fulls of money all day, every day for the past however the fuck long they've been around.
Speaker: If they can't see that the bosses and the scabs and these other people that don't even know what the fuck they're doing can't get this shit done, then it's gonna be a problem. And I'm fucking here for it. Working class people, we got the power, man. It ain't been...
Speaker: You know, it ain't been coming for a long time, but motherfuckers, we're here. And yeah, I support any and every strike possible. You know, this is not even speaking about the... Well, we will excitedly watch for developments on this front. Yeah, totally. And if you're, you know, if you're not super informed about this, like just, you know, the Hollywood strike in general, or the film industry,
Speaker: Not just Hollywood, but like read up on that shit. Listen to what some of the, you know, what some of the people that are negotiating for both unions and that are speaking out about it. Like a lot of these people are the vast majority of these people are.
Speaker: They're not Matt Damon. They're not Tom Cruise. They're not people that are paid tens of millions of dollars for everything they do. A lot of these people are working actors, working writers. They go from gig to gig. They have no real stability. And a lot of them don't even qualify for shit like healthcare.
Speaker: You know, there's just not, this is not a sustainable model if a handful of wealthy ass CEOs can get like ridiculous golden parachutes and, you know, a writer or a low level actor has to work, you know, that plus three other jobs to make ends meet. So do yourself a favor, read up on it.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm done on my high horse, but this is a heel I will die on, for now and all. Well then, know it, we are a pro -union show. If we ever somehow make it to the point where we need a union, or we need more people than the two of us to do this shit, we will support anyone that wants a union.
Speaker: Yeah, if anyone's ever getting paid, we would be sure that they were paid at a fair wage. Absolutely. But we hope, yes. I didn't say. We hope you will enjoy our show with Tony Sylvester coming up next. Thanks, as always.
Speaker: appearing via the marvel of arcane technologies to our top secret studio slash lair. This week, we present the inimitable, the indefatigable, the untarnished, the brazen, the mysterious, hill grinnin' beret, the prince of punk rock, the Sultan of Socks, the rugby wrangler, Anthony W. Madsen Sylvester. Welcome to the show, sir.
Speaker: Thank you. Thank you very much for having me. And now, guess what? It's recording now. It's fucking recording now. So here we go. We're going to get started. Excellent. This is incredible. And until I come out of that, I like that you start with a pun. It's only going to get worse from here. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you should be ready.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. Your assumptions are correct, sir. It will certainly get worse from here. Hey! Tony, how are you doing today, man? Yes, great. Thank you very much. And thank you very much for having me on. I'm really enjoying your... I'm not much of a punk -ass guy.
Speaker: So this is, I've only kind of started recently, again, talking about arcade technology and my incredibly slow uptake. So I listen to you guys, I listen to behind the bat, and that's it. Oh, nice.
Speaker: We are a good company then. We are a good company because admittedly neither of us are podcast people either. So I've got like one or two that I listen sporadically in that space. But you know, I figured since we record a podcast, I should probably listen to one here and there. But other than that, just the big experience in the field.
Speaker: Yeah, just not my thing. It's been really good for me. Because what I like about your one is, it's like, but so many people who I know from the internet or from brand, who I don't really know anything about, there's actually been really... Oh, hell yeah. Half of the people, I don't know, are people that I have followed and don't really know that much. So thank you for doing that. All right. Well, you heard it here, folks. We're doing something that people seem to appreciate.
Speaker: That's a full -throated endorsement. Yeah, it is. I'm not minimizing, not minimizing. So, Tony, we usually open up the show with what we call the ensemble investigation. So, what did you wear today? What are you wearing now? Yeah, whatever you would like to say. Okay, I'm not dressed up at all in any way, shape, or form. I'm wearing a veg kit that I'm wearing a seat at my time.
Speaker: some velvet black hanging out so I'm wearing a new color of my socks which are coming out and then I'm wearing a couple of some trousers doing as well so in black and then I'm wearing a black uni -glo to me they're the best you know the lamare designed ones they're like really boxy and with like a pink collar I really think absolutely oh that sounds great please give me some clothes dude I gotta say as someone that knows all of us yeah
Speaker: like i have never had i mean i only buy like socks or underwear or basic shit from there but i have literally never had a problem with that uh i wouldn't you know but assume their business practices are probably not great but uh it's hard to hard to it's really yeah exactly and i and i think it's just like that for me like that almost
Speaker: And I keep wearing them and I keep like, I'm not like, I'm talking to them. I mean, I'm like, I'm treating them like they're the same as like the highest what I mean is. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, totally. So where are you? Where are you from? And where do you live now? I'm from London, England. I was born in the suburbs two years ago, and I've lived here pretty much lived there in my life. And then now I about an hour outside of the UK.
Speaker: So if you're looking at a method just to the right by this, and that's for about a year and a half or so. Is that new Margate? Yeah, it's four miles down the coast. It is, because we had someone who lives in Margate on the show just like last year. It seems like a very charming year. Her name is Maya Saltz.
Speaker: Okay. She runs an account. Margate, which is cool. Cause she just finds extremely cool stuff, which yeah, it's funny. It's really funny. There are so many of the, um, so many of the fellas here, uh, not all of them are like, but the, uh, Brewer Dawson, you know, those guys and the guys from the showroom, Roy's on the air. Yeah.
Speaker: There's loads of them down here. I mean, it sounds like a pretty enjoyable spot. I'm not going to lie, like on the sea. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That's amazing. Yeah. I feel like we got beautiful. What's the weather like there right now? We're just doing that thing right by the side. It's like humid.
Speaker: I mean, you've got to remember that when an English person's about the weather, it's not like, you guys, we don't have it, we don't have extremes. But when we complain about something, it's hardly irritating. It's actually like, it's not going to kill us, you know what I mean? It's not going to be the end of us. There's nothing biblical about it. But at the same time, it does irritate us.
Speaker: So I'm complaining about being an intellectual, you know what I mean? Right, right. Meanwhile, me in the south of the United States is... I feel like I'm walking around in hell right now. Like, it's 90 degrees, you know, 90 degrees super high humidity, feels like 98, and I'm like, I want to fucking die. Or move to New England. No, thank you, sir. No, thank you.
Speaker: Smart decision! If you really want to experience joy, Tony, you can come and volunteer in my elementary school with no air conditioning in Baltimore City. It's all a delight out here, out this way. Though Matt and I are not quite close, the humidity is the same as similar, not the same, because I know it's worse down there. Anyway, so that's what I am.
Speaker: Yeah. So another thing to sort of open, we ask about what is the first clothing memory that you have? What is the first kind of when does clothing appear in your chronology? Pretty, pretty early. I have a early memory of
Speaker: dressing up or attempting to dress up with what was around the soldier, which did certainly involve a beret. I'm sure. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Well, this is like this is like the commandos beret, right? Yeah, it was. It was. I don't know if it was. I don't know. It was. Maybe it was. Maybe it was. I have no idea. I do remember.
Speaker: So there was always a sort of like changing character or wanting to be something else, you know what I mean? Like stepping into it. There was a TV show here called The Ben, which I don't know if they have had in this about every week, this guy would go on a bench, he would visit a fancy dresser or like put on that outfit and that week a cowboy or an astronaut. And that was 100, that's very formative. The idea of like lifestyle or linking clothing, wanting to be. So I guess thinking about it now,
Speaker: Well, that's a fantastic answer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you see Matt and I are jumping on this. I haven't actually even talked about that. Well, no. And you say that it's... It's a backstory. It's a dexterity. Thank you.
Speaker: really though because you said uh linking it to subculture like you know that hasn't that doesn't come in yet but it comes richly early i'm quite lucky god quite some uh older than me for my years older than their expertise i'm still you know what i mean so and also my dad was kind of that first generation is a bit older but he was um he was a big english version of it was so he okay he played like
Speaker: space in like a jazz band and beers and roll nets and sandals and like lots of the same things as the beatniks but that was like here so I kind of go out with it but then my one was a skinhead and one was art goss so that was the kind of fractures you know in the house so there was like this dominant sound and then their friend groups you know and then like
Speaker: That was what I was seeing on the right, pretty early to be exposed to it. And also this is, bear in mind as well, this is probably 1969, so the 879, that was a really huge moment scale of it, you know what I mean, of what's going on and how many different how, you know, things are at that time. It's a pretty interesting time to go up.
Speaker: Totally. That's, I mean, you're, you know, that point in time, like, that is, I guess, the second big wave of like, oil and skin, and then also kind of like, you know, like, punk skins, rockers, like all this shit, which I have loved for the whole thing.
Speaker: fuck decades like this was. Do you want to define this? Do you want to define these terms for people? I feel like we should probably. Which ones? Like the kinds of subcultures? Boy, skin, all of the differences. I mean, the minutia of these things I think is important. I think many people think like punk, right? Like there is a monolith punk culture when there really isn't at all. No. And I think it's really much of how coming out of like 90s ways of
Speaker: You had people who were already by 78 wanting to change and go in different directions, so you had like the goth side of it very much leaning into the more romantic dress up that. We were also in terms of running with the new romantic craft work in Bowie, but then the other hand you had this new wave of skinheads with an oi which was terrorist
Speaker: So those were definitely the things that were dominant, but they, but again, I was so young, they were just sort of, I was not involved. And then the things that were mentioned to me at the same time, you had an American mainstream culture, but that's coming to you. So, you know, even like American films coming in and American things break down and then that leading into hip hop or CMX and all those things, they're the things that I'm having way more than your person is the older who, you know, I'm eight years old. Right, right. Yeah.
Speaker: And then that leads into skating, and then skating opens whole other thing, which is parkour and those things.
Speaker: we're going on in America, as I think is really exciting. And again, it was mainstream in America. A lot of it here, if you like. Right. Right. It has a draw, you know. Yeah, that's that's a hell of a fucking timeline, man. Like you. Yeah, but I mean, really, really, your access. I mean, it's lucky. And it's the accident of birth and the time is so lucky people up near one of the most exciting point in the output, when I'm in the world.
Speaker: I would have to be an idiot to not have an effect. You know what I mean? You started your weirdo, which I use in the most positive ways, journey at a very, very fucking crucial point of like subcultures converging. So that's really the kind of, so I think I've been a sort of, I don't know, an observer of that. And then the back ever similarly.
Speaker: right? Yeah, totally. So how old were you? Oh, continue your thought, please. No, no, I was probably gonna say the same thing. I was gonna say, once I discovered hardcore, you know, going through your trunk so much, you're trying so much stuff on you're going through here and now and you're here and I want to think I was like, Okay, well, that
Speaker: that makes sense. Maybe it's all of those four. And this American, you know, import lifestyle thing. Right. All kind of colors. And so I meant at the same time, it's just a moral or a, you know, like a kind of life guide element too as well. So therefore shaping your ideas as well. And there we have it. And I don't think you need having age. So at a young age, you're totally, you know, you're like,
Speaker: So traveling, putting people up in the world is very active. Yeah, hardcore, especially for me, and I feel like most people, it is less of a genre and ethos. And then within that, obviously, there's something in that as well, not on one of them as well, hardcore. Totally, totally. Do you remember what the first hardcore band or record you heard was?
Speaker: I mean, again, we're quite lucky because we had John King, he was passed up, so I think he'd been paying Americans hardcore a lot. And then once we ripped the napalm desk and like ripped core, stream noise teller, all those things, they were getting a lot of media. We're hearing them and then hearing the American compartments from the Times or the Foundational, probably hearing them. And then my interest in a way, because I never seen
Speaker: I don't know what's happening. I don't know what's going on, but you breaking up in the past like fuck I guess we can just
Speaker: I mean, I guess we can just keep talking. I don't remember the P5. So we can try again. I don't know what the problem is. So it's like very embarrassing, frankly. And this happens often. I mean, don't worry about it too much. You don't have it. Yeah. No, I think it is.
Speaker: finer, more fine. It's a temperamental beast, so you don't want to say it's good, right? And then it will start now. Well, let's start with another question. Sure, sure, sure. Because I got one. In your excellent interview with Carlos Ramirez on noecho .net, which I'd recommend if anyone has additionally curious about this time period in hardcore,
Speaker: You mentioned a guy named Barry Lynch of the hardcore outfit, the long, cold stare. You say he, quote, leaned heavily into more of an old school collegiate Ivy League look, chinos, converse, and hooded top or cardigan. A little smoother, a little slicker. And I think, end quote, he was the most punk because he wasn't wearing punk gear. Do you think that that is what's going on with tailored clothing these days, as I think has been observed by some of the people?
Speaker: It's really interesting. He, for me, really defines like, this is such a like, micro, it's almost lost in the matter, but I feel like...
Speaker: That's our five or ten listeners. Yeah. London's straight edge kids really wanted, through him, we were able to come in with something that he dressed and it was really like, I looked at that. So him kind of incorporating. And bear in mind, this is a guy who was friends with Arm Death and all of us really, like, kind of more metal. He looked like this, and like, but super like intention. And I think, and so,
Speaker: That was something like a pinot, you know, for you going back to that. Subcultural themes may be being mainstream, really about the semi -optic, really about how they kind of travel. To me a pair of chinos is him, to me a pair of clothing, you know, through that, which is so funny to get. They're not going to, but that's the context I knew them. And the funny thing is more, I think, with me being Ivy League style, Ivy, always, it never came off being dominant style. It always came there in suede head. It was there in skinhead and it was there in moss.
Speaker: So it was the only way it was viable. So it's always been more of a disruptor, more of a more of an undergrad. Yeah, that's interesting. I had a question about that written that I didn't that didn't make the cut because I was I am curious about the about, I guess, perception of Ivy style, most especially in the United Kingdom, because like it is kind of a shout out to that anyway, isn't it to Anglo
Speaker: just sensibilities. If you've heard any of those motherfuckers, you know, talk.
Speaker: uh, yeah, like blue blood type intellectual in America. It's like they wish they were English. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's, it comes from, yeah, you're right. It comes from when you didn't fly up in New England, you know, adopted style, not with everything else. I don't leave that everyone's down in that. But when I, but that's what's here then through, uh, through a filter of, you know, of, of like a subculture and, and, uh,
Speaker: filter of being different, you know, in concert. And that's what's funny is like, I don't know, have you guys heard of a guy called John Simon, called Jay Simon? Like there's a documentary about was made by a guy. Yeah, yeah. This guy that's like Ivy pick a window dress in for a son.
Speaker: But he started selling the Arrow shirts in London in the early 70s, and that was then what was by straight heads, by mods.
Speaker: But the funny thing is, he was creating a young person because that's what he liked, you know what I mean? He wanted to sell to the young guys and everything else. But what he ended up with was a teenager. So it was almost like sales. Even though that wasn't and that became... He's still around today, like three or fours and now it's called John's life. He mixed it up with Bryce. We share a wall with them. But yeah, they wear their first super down shirts and everything else. Wow.
Speaker: yeah that's kind of like two sides of the of the same coin like what uh what bryce lens does and what he seems to do it's like complimentary but not really competition yeah it's very like uh it's very nice to know and like the whole so in there's not many places the collection menswear stores together where people other than several row and german very much you know you know where we are and has trumped
Speaker: Yeah, that sounds like a solid fucking line -up of good people doing cool stuff.
Speaker: Yeah, like a little comedy. Yeah. So we have seen multiple references to just incredible Robin Winnes film, Dead Po society, which side note is probably the movie that I have watched the most in my life. Oh, really?
Speaker: Yeah, I have admittedly awful taste in film. I am not a film person. I love the Transformers series. I could talk about this for a goddamn hour. But yeah, Deadpool Society, one of my all -time favorites, and just the most stacked cast in maybe the saddest movie I've ever seen. Who else is in that movie?
Speaker: I think I probably have seen it when I was a child. Dude, it's insane. Josh Charles, Ethan Hawke, obviously Robin Williams. Who else is it? The dad from that 70s show, isn't it? Wow. Yeah. Oh, yeah, of course. You need a bad guy in barbeau cart as well.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. I'm also admittedly awful with names of actors. I don't give a shit. But yeah, look up the IMDB if you're if you're curious. But was that something that kind of like was a formative experience for you, seeing it, you know, as I imagine when it came out because of your age. Yeah, I was 16. So I went to the cinema and I finally got back again.
Speaker: that the era of hardcore kind of I made my own and I really was the kind of wasn't quite happening when I got into 9 -up wanted to and that youth career had all the had all the skin that didn't have hip hop huge influence right oh yeah the sneakers the back pants etc yeah even the fade the haircut everything so then you have then you have this other indefinable which was the strangest which was that kind of feature so
Speaker: there was me seeing it in their post. So there was just another way of making it fair. And I mean it had extra resonance to me because I'd come out of it. So therefore, I had the experience. It was actually my experience at school as well. So yeah. Recently, Josh Charles, who's in that film, who's also in Baltimore fans, we own this as well. He plays one other comedy in that as well.
Speaker: Anyway, so he walks through the crisis. It's like it's on a Sunday. We're closing the door. It's like 5 p .m. Got my bag in my hand and the other hand and he walks through the door. And he's like, oh, you guys feel open? And we're like, yep. We ain't going anywhere. And he comes in and it's like where it is in London that you get a lot of actors, a lot of people anyway. But I was just for three of my favorite films and stuff.
Speaker: Some bits aren't being very cool. And Ethan was over here. He's like, oh, where are you from? And he's like, no, he goes, are you from Baltimore? He goes, yeah, how do you know? He's plenty of tags, like a raven cat. And Ethan goes, what do you do? And I'm like, I can't do this anymore. This one's basically completely punishing.
Speaker: And he was like, oh, that's cool. And they ended up buying some trousers. And then he was like, oh, you want to go for a drink? We're like, wait on the dinner. You want to come? So he ended up, he ended up coming for dinner with us. Believe me, I grilled Batman on everything. I was like, tell me all about who was that? And he was very gracious, a good guy.
Speaker: Yeah, that's great to know. It makes me happy that this not really celebrity but kind of celebrity likes cool stuff. Yeah, exactly. That's the level of people who I kind of like.
Speaker: I like that he's been working out his entire life and never really, you know, never had his like bad pet moment or whatever. But he's done solid work all the way through the years, you know? Absolutely. We were good. Yeah, exactly. So we wanted to ask, I mean, I guess this does.
Speaker: What's the vintage second -hand shopping landscape like in the United Kingdom? The charity shop. We talked with Maya about this a little. I mean, for me, I don't really tend to do much charity shopping like that. To me, I think in terms of buying and everything else, I buy from people who are doing the work. Right, right. Everything that needs some stuff.
Speaker: so that I can swoop in and get it. But I think we've always had a really vintage, and when I look at the prices, of course, it's unfortunate how much. One of my first jobs in menswear was working for the American Caribbean in some of the 80s. I worked there a weekend, and if I knew the prices, then anyway.
Speaker: That's a whole other fucking conversation. Oh, yeah, but I mean I think there's so much what's really interesting is only in the last 10 years make that people have carrier. Yeah, we always We've always brought up with the American from other countries
Speaker: And we were always told, we were always kind of, what a British stuff has never any, it hasn't survived. It's not very good. There wasn't the interest. And it was actually Japanese who started buying a lot more. And that's when the England, and then England, then it's like, so people like, there's a guy called Blighty Materia. There's a - Yeah, yeah. There's a store called Levison in East London in Shoreditch. And then there's, and then Jojo at Rag Parade in Sheffield. These guys, they're, the stuff they burn out is army and navy. Pretty good stuff.
Speaker: uh so so i'll i'll buy i'll always but but yeah that's the kind of that level of like i i don't on that first limit right right yeah it you know it like i do this for a living i know there's stuff still in the wild but like like you said you buy you buy things that you can't live without from the people like me that are going to stay exactly so you know which like there's a food chain yeah yeah and like dude we we
Speaker: Will speak for the entire vintage community and say we fucking love that. Thank you Yeah, so like, you know, how often are you finding stuff, you know that you're just like I gotta I have this like we know you're a collector we're all I
Speaker: My collecting has really changed. I started the brand like change because I'm not I'm collecting far less for ensembles for like my more for like in very comfortable. Right. My my darling wife. Yes. Yes. And like I drew down a lot. I probably got like two thirds
Speaker: I really shaded a lot of stuff, because it was just like, well, what is this? And also I don't have a really, I don't have as much job when I was looking for the tailoring. There was the onus on him, show up and go out every day, you know, and know how you dress. And then just for your own sake, variety. Of course. Now stickers a week aren't wearing, it's very few other people. So that's changed a lot. I don't need, I don't need that. I didn't need 120 ties. Right.
Speaker: So really what I'm looking for now is, I'm looking for a very specific, which I may never feel.
Speaker: Right. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So I guess you've done a lot of traveling, touring stuff. Have you visited anywhere that really felt like could live there, felt like home safe? Um, I mean, I never, I never could that I was leaving London. I feel like, I mean, that's very much socio -economic for me because these are, you know,
Speaker: Um, right.
Speaker: I didn't even consider that. I didn't even consider that like as the many, many, many different, the many very horrible things about Brexit. Yeah, that didn't occur to me in two countries.
Speaker: They had this really crazy where you would hear politics, right? When you've eliminated freedom of movement, that's what they meant, what they didn't. But they were even saying themselves, this is what you're saying, you know, you've eliminated your own free wealth. Yeah, it sounds very American, frankly. Yeah, yeah. Well, better than my Brexit the same year. So once that happened, I was like, yeah. It was on the world now.
Speaker: Yeah, our countries have been playing hold my beer for way too long. Just like, oh, yeah, I know it's it's always kind of been like that. But you just kind of look around and you're like, do you fuckers understand like the shit that's about to happen? Because yeah.
Speaker: Yep, that's true, that's it. But, yeah. But until I haven't really been, honestly, then I've been, uh, I don't think intentional. Just like, I used to try, I started traveling through, lucky, you know, at a young age. So, but like, who knows? Some of my UK buddies have come to the machine gun. That's like what they do. They like go and they do like the most American shit. They like, I'm Alex Crocodile, you shoot a machine gun. Yeah, I definitely done that.
Speaker: what i don't yeah yeah it seems to me like that's what we have to offer basically yeah well yeah actually um yeah i guess do you ever see any do you ever see are there places where the style you think is elevated
Speaker: I think I don't know man, like I'm not really, I think one of the things I really, I really decide is the how, how it's like to media random. So there's so much money reasons like how you label so many of my relations. This is also everything. So this is definitely not like some kind of like theoretical rat at the same time.
Speaker: I think one of the problems about the information, everywhere you go culture, there is so much more similarity now than there is. And that's it, you know what I mean? I just think there's a kind of like, there is a standard of dangerous, you know, especially in that, you know, iGen as well, pretty universal, goes all the way through Asia, all the way through Europe, everyone has similar look. I'm more interested, I'm more interested, you know what I mean? And I think that's hard to find, and I think that's hard to
Speaker: And most of us now, I think, are more in my individual than I am in the area they're from, you know? I do feel that, like, of the people I kind of look at and think they're in, I think there's a lot of guys in Korea who have, like, an interview, you know? And I think that goes through some of the brands as well. Like, a brand might have a fact. There's always really interesting way they mix. And I think there's a pretty unique way of... So, I think it's still out there.
Speaker: But for the most part, yeah, I ended still now. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, the question was a little like, I don't know, foofy, but I appreciate the point. I don't know. I live in Baltimore. He's very close. There is little to write about there. It used to be. Yeah. But I mean, I think that's.
Speaker: I don't know that is that unique either or is that I mean I think also something blown up around like really interesting sales brands and doors that we made in London the duffer of George was advanced and we had all we we had stores where but we're really kind of like putting together things ourselves it was almost like design or style by
Speaker: how they put on them from being a multi -brand and how they sat. At the same time, they had more money. I mean, there was a cost of living and such, like for less than years, it was actually like guys who were on the sort of level. So more money was being spent, maybe being a bit of that. I think if you don't have that kind of income, it's going to be like, why?
Speaker: I need to get the basics to make them laugh and be a bit more, a bit more detendable and solid. You know, you're not going to be like, you know what, I am going to be more ridiculous.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean to your point earlier about the sameness, right? Like that is the plague of Washington DC is sameness. Everyone is wearing the same suit from Joseph Banks. Yeah. And it just is not good for anyone. It's like not happy for the people who are wearing the suit. It's not happy for the people who are seeing the suit. Yeah. But then at the same time, I have a monkey to start to say it like we are
Speaker: with the niche of the niche of, you know what I mean? Like the idea of like caring about these things, you know, which I also think, you know, I don't know, it's good to not have a crowded club. But like, don't you think that a lot of people who don't like stuff that is good and I mean, ethically good, but I also mean like in terms of
Speaker: destruction and Whatever else advertising, you know when they think I don't know they don't understand what good stuff is because they haven't experienced sadly, right? Yeah, I guess but also also when I'm throwing up where you were you were kind of got there You had kind of got the people who were like who heard this this music was just on the TV or just on the radio You know, it's really happy, you know, and that doesn't maybe like
Speaker: by an evangelical, but I don't think I've ever really been like that. Like I'm not a part of it. Being under is fresh. I mean, it's fun. Not to be like, I'm not being like exclusive. Like I'm not people out. I'm not being a gatekeeper in time. If there's a natural sort of like, not what a natural. Surely. Yeah.
Speaker: Well, if everyone walked around looking great all the time, then we would have another problem. It wouldn't be anything. You said I'd purposely start looking like shit. Right, right, right. So, Tony, how did AWMS come about? What was your initial inspiration to kind of do your own thing? I think it was, I mean,
Speaker: Some background wise, I worked in for a long time, not in the glamorous very much. So I've kind of always been involved in the creation for that. You know what I mean? I just get the feeling with print. And then so I think when I kind of like...
Speaker: writing about men and working, sort of underused. So then with lockdown and COVID and all that change, one of the ways to change me was it freed me up. I wasn't, so I was like, well, what else do I want? So it was more like starting with my own thing. I spent so much time really, spent so much time of like work and
Speaker: play wearing these water on their heads closer and I could never find them so occasionally I'd find where one and every time I did people were on mine would be like where'd you get that and I'm like I'm not can you motherfucker yeah no and I feel that too yeah it's because it's it's about the it's about the research it's about finding stuff I'm like you don't get to like read the rewards and then um and and so and so when I started to do I was
Speaker: I was like, well, I could develop this. And so it was more quick. And I was like, worried about that. I was like, you know, are people in the age?
Speaker: which is going to resonate with people enough to order a minimum amount, like 30 or 50. And one of the first people I asked if they wanted one was a guy called Leon Raymond, who wears a lot of Adam Rogers brand, a dress, he wears a lot of that. I don't know if you're aware, he's really good. And I was like, hey, man, if I did, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I kind of like, I ordered a sample and then I found a fact that used to make them 30, 40 years ago, hadn't made them like, yep,
Speaker: So I kind of ordered a couple of samples in one and a couple of other people, a lot of them. And I think that's the kind of way I approach it. I'm not interested in making the art out there already. I'm really interested in what I want. There has to be a kind of need for an aware of it and that they're not aware of it. So, and I don't mean like, obviously, I'm not the beraiser, but what I mean is my take, my, whatever it is.
Speaker: either like a makeup into a fabric makeup or whatever. But I approach it way more like, because that's the way my, I don't have the finance and I don't have, so I approach very much like, and so far, you know, so good. Touch words is very much like, it's very much kind of it. I think, uh, Matt is mad.
Speaker: but I'm going to ask you about the Fisherman's, which great piece design wise, I think that depending on the person, as you were talking about earlier, is a little out there, right? It's not like this is a common garment, right? So you make the Fisherman's mock, which finally, I will let you answer, but is it of Irish origin?
Speaker: I mean it's pretty it's pretty much like England islands from all the way around the European war these uh the French ones little tail they normally had my coat latched that and this one's smart but again it's like the factories work well for like the rafters they were making so yeah all I'm doing is that is like is making them with a linen and I've got one uh flannel like a
Speaker: and they'll be in, you know, like, chamois shirt. So just just thinking about, well, how good is it? Yeah, which all this stuff is sick. I mean, I'm like, because the socks are sold out, I think I'm looking for socks and there are a lot of bad socks out there. So I thought that the making them making them on old English sock making machines. Yeah. That's fucking cool. I like that. I like. I think I, for me,
Speaker: I think the ideal is of its own right and nice. And then you back it up with grapes. But it's almost like I think the story can't come first.
Speaker: what you the ideal thing is someone coming out to you oh that's a really nice stock or something you go all right yeah they were made i don't know you know or oh that's a nice oh oh yeah well that's enough but it's almost like you don't want to store first thing you know yeah yeah it's a cool detail it's like uh added flax you know like when i said like i discovered the irish origin of the fisherman smock i was like what the fuck this is this is a cool
Speaker: thing. I think I read a Wikipedia page, you know, and that's what I want when I'm buying stuff is more information about it. Yeah. Well, we're all, you know, we're all mad, really, at the end of the day. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Matt is Matt is returned. I am. Yeah, Jesus. The biggest note of all. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: through me like we don't do each other very well tony but you just described my literal exists uh biggest nerd of all arch nerd arch nerd like i i say shit to connor that he's like what the fuck did you pull this from and i'm like yeah that's almost always about transformers yeah that's well that's that's not a lie but it's not the whole truth yes i don't i don't know what i also i also like
Speaker: on those occasions when someone does, like, kind of make those... Because you don't really ever get insulted as well, but whatever. But, like, people will be like, oh, dye shirt. And if you take it seriously, it's so much better in Bizami to go, oh, fine, fine. It's actually based off an old, you know, fisherman's smock from the... And they go, oh, okay. It's kind of like you've taken the power out of the insult. You know what I mean?
Speaker: There is nothing I have loved more in my career in clothing than knocking people down a peg or two by just doing that kind of like it is enjoyable thing that I can think of and like
Speaker: especially you know like that that was my experience in uh in high -end menswear for a very long it's like yeah you you don't think i know anything i'm you know to you i am just the shopkeeper at this point and it's like no actually yeah yeah i i could school you about whatever the fuck here you think you know thank you guys
Speaker: Where's Robin's logo from his work? Even if you don't know, he has a really, he has a wonderful, quite irreverent style characters. Anyway, and in one of his, from his own style and his art, he could help me. And that's when you were specifically, it was something that, in like that 80s studio, he was wearing a sweatshirt of daft, and in flocked letters, and the word daft is
Speaker: So, we'd be remiss if we didn't talk about your daft idea. How did this come about?
Speaker: wonderfulish word because it's a very short word it doesn't really have any describing yourself stupid but without any of the insult in it you know it's a bit silly you know exactly it's really kind of soft and um but also similarly to that synchronicity is that you find out that about me you'll do you'll probably so i know that like my jake jake wigam who makes uh who makes like monster shirt
Speaker: He made a daft for himself and wore it, unbeknownst to me, around the photo. But for himself, this is like cut out, cut out the letters of Monty. I feel like, with a lot of these things, that they're kind of floating out there. They're in the ether. Receptive people are like, people are definitely one of those, I did. And again, that was something where I was like, please, can I?
Speaker: And then you know, I ended up making three different runs, but that was kind of resonating. But again, for me, the important thing that was to sit like, which I wanted to have that I couldn't, it was quite short crocs. But you know, for the bottom and then quite a long short down to the elbow, not only that it was this logo on it, but also fine. Yeah, that was, that was a really fun, that was a really fun. There's a few more things like that coming.
Speaker: the the
Speaker: range of people but there is a special kind of person who's interested more than one trip and there's certain things by a lot of them and the funny thing is there's a real Venn diagram between a lot of those guys and guests that you've had on the show treated the actors like Phil Gregard and like who he's resonating with who pick up like more than one and that's really nice because I feel that maybe there's an element of profit
Speaker: I feel there's an element of trust in there as well, maybe because they like it, and they're like, you know, we'll go with him on that. Yeah, totally. There's a certain trust on it, right? Well, I feel like they are punks too. Yeah, that's true. At least Peter is. I think that still is too. Yeah. So yeah, it is a Venn diagram. It's a pipeline. It's something. We're zeroing in on what exactly it is. Yeah, yeah. This is a big focus for us.
Speaker: like we we talk about this yeah yeah no i like that and i like them that you make the kissing my dicks for her and like i'm getting too weighed down in that some of the people as well because that's the thing it was appreciate that your life is where you want it or not right right early informed i'm not saying everyone makes it has to meet you exactly or even you know have to have the same other bullet but at least think about them and intention you know yeah yeah and recognize it
Speaker: if you're a human being breathing air on this earth your life is it's inherently like i you know that we can again we could talk about this shit for two hours um but you know people people need to realize that there is there is a lot of semiotics or connection or whatever the fuck you want to call it about all of these things
Speaker: Yeah, and the thing is, is that clothing, as much as anything else, you know, because how you're the manufacturer of that and what lies a bit is why you actually get clothing. But also, the information that you're putting out. And I mean, if you're interested in being mad, if you're interested in vintage clothing, you know, student related, you're going to rub up the game from the past. As simple as that, you know. It's just like, well, you want to be intentional about that? How are you going to compare that?
Speaker: right right
Speaker: Yeah, sort of mind the same way. Yeah, food production exactly, or like the housing, or still, it's present 100. So, what?
Speaker: uh i was gonna say like you know kind of kind of hearing your history uh robust as fuck i gotta say like what what would teenage you uh think about your career trajectory um i just engulfed of like what a few year old or was when you were that age so like now sort of yeah and
Speaker: Oh, it's insane! It's insane. And I think there's two sides to that. I think the number one is leave much more, whatever you want to call it, conventional lives. I think for the most part, now. I think there's more options to like stay alive and stay solvent, form a plurality of ways, you know what I mean? And then also I think that might grow up.
Speaker: I totally maintain the relationship to the maintainer relations like the undercoat much longer and much further. It's one little kids you'd laugh at. It's all like an old, you know, or an old rocker you'd laugh at. Look at that ridiculous character. Right. Except, except I got to interject. Broncetzer still looks cool with shit. Who?
Speaker: Broad sector stray cats. Yeah. Yeah, like I look at him and I'm like, yeah, man this fits this fits. Yeah, but But I mean it's like it's like it's what every youth cultures I left it residue I basically never really kind of leave it like the whole world is, you know, all these other funny, you know in Africa I think I I I honestly so beyond the wrong mode for henshin, right? So maybe they'd be like
Speaker: But you know, it's like if there's that picture of, like, Tom Mariah with his daughter rocking me, but it's Tom Mariah's, he's uncooked kid. I'm sure the teenager makes me like, fuck off, Granddad. You know?
Speaker: of the
Speaker: kind of out there. So, yeah, one of the points of the show is the influence of outside forces on our clothing. How intertwined are music and clothing for you? It's really interesting because I think that, I think there's a lot of nods to what I did from some cultures.
Speaker: but I don't think he hardly is other than like a, it's more an appreciation rather than I show up when I go to shows, I'm not on the car, I'll give it same time, I'm not showing up looking like a live at the immediate site. Right, right. Clothes are kind of functional, you know, it's just showing up in maybe a softer shoe and like, you know, like a more casual clothing and you're not like the title, but it's like, but at the same time, I'm not trying cause I'm not the guy. So, but I think it's like,
Speaker: I don't know. People always say that. It's almost like, I think if there was someone who was playing the kind of things, like Brian Ferry, it also necessarily wouldn't work, the perform and the function, right? It's like, you're playing physical music in a hot room when really the dress is reflected, you know what I mean? So it's like, it's not really. But whereas you look at the size of the blue note, everyone who was jazz music, they're dressed in a much more, in a way, which is conventional menswear.
Speaker: but that's because their lifestyle and their effort as well.
Speaker: So it's kind of like that. I don't weigh away. But it's just like, I don't look at clothing as anything other than two other things. But having said that, I don't walk away. I don't think totally just dress that, you know what I mean? Or even if you're a 50 -year -old man, don't be dressing like a teenager, you know? Right. It's a great one of those elements. And keep an understanding for it. Don't just keep dressing, 10 -year -old.
Speaker: Yeah, we all got to progress. Exactly. But just use it as the kind of like, use it as the the framework you used to pass through rather than over me. Absolutely. Absolutely. I feel like at this point, I've gone back to like what I was wearing as a young high school is like a T -shirt, a light jacket, work pants and like other boots or or like comfortable sneakers.
Speaker: but I'm also like, you know, yeah, yeah. Like I want to be comfortable. I want to wear something that like feels right. And, you know, that's just, that's the feeling like I'm dressed for what I need to do in my daily life. The oldest piece of clothing that I own, not the oldest is a reverse, which are the best, which I've known since I was 19 years old. Yeah. Yes. Made in the USA, you know, still the best.
Speaker: like okay now it's relegated to the right right because i've had it totally apart but it's still the oldest like my residence i think is i would never get no absolutely not absolutely not and such a major investment of me uh uh whatever right like i'm what we're giving that up did you see uh ray capo wearing that and that's why you bought a champion reverse which 100 i mean no no
Speaker: That was the uniform of like... Yeah! So again, that was the uniform of that wave of the parkour. Pintuck jeans, sneakers, or Pintuck combat trousers, you know, sneakers and a champion. That's the look, you know. Fucking youth crew. Youth crew. I mean, unfortunately, that's still a pretty thick part of how I dress. Oh, dude. Of course. Of course. Scrap everything I've said.
Speaker: No, no, no, man. This is our aim of the show, to get these deep dives into why people love one another. Tony, I have to ask the last question, but I got to know your top five punk or hardcore records. And I will say, Connor did not think this was possible until I rattled off my top five.
Speaker: which wasn't five it was six it was five it was five there was a rotation right it was like well maybe five and maybe six anyway we'll see tony if you can do it we'll say what we are you saying that we got enough is that what you're
Speaker: Solid. Solid. There you go. I mean, that's got to go in there, right? The Burn 7 -inch. Let me talk about criteria here. What I'm going to speak about is things like this then, which I see now, which I've kind of listened to, if that makes sense. So it's going to be more about rather than... Awesome. Burn 7 -inch.
Speaker: negative approach tied down, LP, something DC, something Revelation, something that may be right supreme, or titled I would say.
Speaker: and then uh killing time album um all the world deal demo for the time album um is that five okay uh that's that's four that's four so right to spring burn climax now that's five negative approach there's your five oh good sorry sorry i i'm typing this as we speak but yes but bear in mind you know but
Speaker: subject to change in the word of faith every day, subject to change in every way. So tomorrow could be different. But those are different bangers. That's what Matt said. That's what Matt says. Everybody has the consistent ones they would always include. I couldn't tell you my top five hip -hop records. I would never be able to decide that.
Speaker: Kill me. Hip hop. Yeah. That's my genre. That's my genre of course. At the moment anyway. I mean.
Speaker: What do you like? What do you like now? Well, I saw. So I saw on your list a push, of course. But I like a lot of the Griselda rappers, maybe all of the Griselda rapper. I think West Side Gun, Boldy James, really a compromise and artist, you know. Rhymes Street. Yes. Yes. Yes. I think Rome is one of the stronger of that. Conway is really good as well.
Speaker: the home
Speaker: And then that Mickey Diamond record that goes through one and two. And that last roadster. And that last roadster. I honestly, for the moment, I'm more excited about years. And the same with Harcourt. I'm more interested. I'm more excited about Harcourt. There's some incredible fucking bands. Absolutely. And I think music comes out of Strife. And there's a ton of Strife right now, right? That is undeniable.
Speaker: And also I think, especially with hardcore, hardcore is so in so many ways, but it's almost like more about you. It's more about like where you are and how you mean to it. More like, I think it, like you have to be like, I think there's not been, or haven't really got it at the moment. I'm excited. It's just trying to be around. There's so much, there's so much good music. There's so much good pop music, too. Like, there's a lot of pop music. You knew it. I would agree to disagree with this. Oh, really? Oh, man. No, there's so much good stuff.
Speaker: Oh, I hate fucking pop music so much. I have no idea. Well, it depends what you mean by pop music, right? Because like, um, I don't know. It would depend what you mean by pop. I mean, I, I like, uh, whatever. That's a whole another issue. Yeah, you know, we need top five pop records next time. Yeah, no problem. I'm here for it. Let me know.
Speaker: Wait, did you ask if my top five hardcore records, Anthony? I did. I did. OK. This is probably going to be different because, as you said, it changed it. But my top five in no particular order are Bad Brains, Rock for Light, American Nightmare, background music, Bane, Holding This Moment, EP.
Speaker: yep probably unbroken life love regret and then i'm gonna say minor threat uh out of step ep or lp i guess yeah like you know i i have a chromax tattoo which uh or a chromax base tattoo which did not really aim that well you know like and and i know this ether bought it for you and still did it
Speaker: Yeah, Smith did it and he told me two hours worth of stories about the New York hardcore scene in the 80s and 90s. And it was one of the funnest experiences of my fucking life. Sadly, I feel like both Harley and John Joseph just went off the fucking rails and really, really hard for me to listen. But Asia Coral and Best Wish has been like, I love those records to no end.
Speaker: I mean, if I'm looking for like KOMA's incarnation that I'm sitting in, as long as Mackie's there, I don't care who else is there. Oh, totally, totally. Dude, I... It's Mackie all the way. Yeah, yeah. Mackie has to be in the presence. That's it? Yeah, I... What is that? Yeah.
Speaker: So Tony, this has been... No, no, go for it. Go for it. Oh, I don't. I don't know what I was going to say. I was saying, strangely, I don't have a point of all this kind of banter. I don't have ideas, but nothing to cover up. Yeah, yeah. No, sorry about that, please. I'm good on that with that.
Speaker: the fifth
Speaker: of course of course yeah we're gonna have to have you back on for a holy music episode okay yes yeah yeah yeah do that or like a round table play music and then everyone's like dude i i'm super into this
Speaker: I think this is a great idea. We'll get some other guests up to however many people we can handle and talk about me throughout. I think we can have eight guests. I think so. A lot of guests will be no longer each other. I would be muting, motherfuckers. It sounds very bad.
Speaker: It does, it does. We always give our guests a chance to shout out whatever they want to, so this is yours. Thanks, man. Just thanks for having me. Shout out. I guess if you want to find me, especially with Loki, which I've had as my Instagram account for like 15 years or whatever it is.
Speaker: And then from there, there's like links to like the shop and some articles I've written that might be awesome. And so I didn't tell after like, every one of my friends, people I've mentioned here, you know, this is this is nothing, this is nothing without the abs, the fucking loop, you know, so all the support. Yeah, thank you. Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker: Oh, that's it. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Thank you to our community of nerds that somehow all find each other and, uh, make, you know, make friends. So let's speak again. Yeah, we certainly will. Uh, but yeah, Tony, one more time. Thank you for coming on.
Speaker: If you like what we do, which we assumed we got a ringing endorsement about an hour ago from Tony Sylvester himself, please subscribe, rate, follow on whatever platform you use. If you'd like to support because you enjoy this, we'd very much appreciate it. You can send those over to atconner -valor on fenmo
Speaker: or Connor Fowler at gmail .com on PayPal. Thanks for tuning in. You got questions, comments, concerns. We're apocalypse studs at gmail .com or at apocalypse studs on Instagram. I'm Matt Smith at Rebels Rogues. I'm Connor Fowler. I'm Connor Fowler. And we'll see you next time. Yeah, they're listening.
