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Veganuary 2026: Dominic's Vegan Journey (Originally released 2024)
89 Plays7 days ago
This January we are re-releasing all eighteen of our 'Going Vegan' series, to shine a spotlight on the huge variety of everyday normal folk who choose to avoid animal expoitation through choosing a vegan lifestyle.
In today's rerun, we hear from regular Enough of the Falafel guest Dominic.
For the original shownotes for this episode, visit Episode 18 directly https://zencastr.com/z/SmrHZfA5
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With our podcasts, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights, as well as picking a 'timeless' vegan or animal rights issue, and discussing it in more depth.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Dominic & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Veganuary 2026
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi there, this is Anthony from the Enough of the Falafel Collective. We're a group of just everyday vegans who for the last two and a half years or so have been releasing two podcasts a week bringing you vegan and animal rights news as well as philosophical discussions. And many of the contributors on the show have released a special episode in the past where they've talked about their journey of going vegan. And for Veganuary 2026, we are re-releasing all of those episodes and the episode you're about to listen to now is one of those. So it's been recorded at some point in the last three years and it features one of our contributors. We really hope you enjoy it and that you continue to join for other episodes that we release over the course of 2026.
Dominic's Vegan Journey Begins
00:00:50
Speaker
Dominic, thank you so much for joining me today. Really, really looking forward to to having a conversation. We've not really spent much time together before, so I'm getting excited about learning more about you just in general, but specifically that vegan journey that you have been on. and if if it's okay to start things off, can you take us right back?
00:01:13
Speaker
Not, not to when you first were vegan, but a bit before that, like what were the first signs or little seeds that this might be something that would be of interest to you or, or, or could be starting the journey off for you? How did it all begin?
00:01:27
Speaker
Well, I think for me, ah my mum has always been a huge positive influence in my life. So she really wanted to give up meat. But as a son of a single mother, I was a fussy eater. People say vegans are fussy. And, you know, I'm not like you give me something vegan. I will eat it. Anything within the vegan palate these days, jobs are good. and But as a little lad, ah I was up obsessed with McDonald's. Obsessed. All the marketing worked so well. I loved the adverts, the colourful characters. And my mum used to lie to me and tell me that food was from McDonald's when it was not. Because I wouldn't eat anything unless it was from McDonald's. So I remember arguing with children at school. Yeah, McDonald's do frozen pizzas. What you talking about?
00:02:23
Speaker
So I adored McDonald's. I remember a really fantastic birthday party of a friend where a really cool... actor who was acting as Ronald McDonald. We we saw him, this like group of six-year-old boys, we're like, oh, it's Ronald, it's Ronald. And as an adult looking back on that, I think, yeah, he was just an actor who'd finished his shift and was going home. And he was so kind. He came over and did a magic trick for like my mum and my friends in the car park. And it was beautiful and it was magical. And my mum would bring up the subject of
00:03:03
Speaker
not wanting to eat meat. And I was not interested at all until we left London where I'd been growing up, central capital city. And we moved to the countryside when I was seven, turning eight.
Shifting Perspectives on Meat Consumption
00:03:20
Speaker
And for the first time, I was around farmlands and I was seeing many different aspects of farming. I was never taken to a slaughterhouse, but that there was conditions that animals were in that were not working. what we saw in bright, colourful children's picture books.
00:03:45
Speaker
And I was really upset. And I said to mum, I only want to eat old animals who die of natural causes. And my mum could have humoured me. And she was like, well, that that's not a thing, Dominic. That that doesn't happen.
00:04:03
Speaker
I was like, OK, I won't eat meat. And I remember it so clearly, so clearly. And my mum, you know, we were really poor, my mum and I. And she was like, right, if I do this, because I want to do this. I've been saying for a while I want do this. And if I buy a load of stuff, you've got to try and eat it, Dominic, because I will, will, will.
00:04:24
Speaker
And, um you know, I had a few, ah not slip ups, that's too strong a word, but, you know, i was I was not always the most confident as a child. And if I was invited over to someone's house for dinner, I did not say, oh, I don't eat meat anymore. And, um you know, You know, would eat meat and I would not feel great about it. And I think actually that kind of helped me on my journey, having these sort of negative associations. People like, oh, don't you miss bacon and all that. And it was quite the opposite, really, that I um was not enjoying
00:04:59
Speaker
and And I do think something that could be hard to get across to people who who are currently eating meat all the time or drinking milk, eating cheese all the time, is that your taste buds change. Your taste buds change. And actually, when I was predominantly not eating meat, when I had some, Even as a child, it didn't feel good digested. It felt heavy. It felt uncomfortable. It was unpleasant. It wasn't the same as when I'd been eating meat all the time. Not the same at all. Not the same at all. So, you know, the years passed and ah my transition to full veganism was a really slow one. Really, really slow. Like I moved to the city and yeah, veganism was was everywhere. i'm in Manchester now, a big vegan captain. Thank thank you for that introduction, Dominic. You're painting a really vivid picture there. Before we move on to the transition towards veganism, have you spoken to your mum since that transition as to what her reasons were for for for wanting to make that switch herself? Because you've you've described that it's something that was on her radar, but didn't didn't quite happen. And then then you've had this moment together. But do you know what her reasons were? Well, I think it was a big compassionate towards ah animals, like compassionate towards sentient beings, really, from from my mum's point of view. um
00:06:32
Speaker
i think i think also as well, and I say this with joy, I say this with joy, that my mum and me, there's a certain element of actually enjoying being a bit... awkward, you know? but like and I mean, when I say, you know, about feeling a certain way, of course, we all have different feelings on different days. I mentioned before being a child, sometimes being shy, sometimes being less confident. And then other times, you know, quite happily being different. I think that as a child, I i wasn't yet aware that that one day I would come out as a gay man, but I knew that I was...
00:07:09
Speaker
a boy who was called girly and the word girly was used as an insult. And I knew I didn't like football and I didn't like most of the things that I were told i was being told were boys things. And my mum's upbringing had been very similar. She hadn't been popular at school. She had struggled to make friends and sometimes that can make you feel sad and sometimes that can make you feel like, you know what, i don't want to be like you anyway. Why am I bothered? And and for me and for mum, I think embracing a different lifestyle, which was one we both really believed in from the act of, gosh, I don't want to be...
00:07:47
Speaker
eating living beings. I don't have to. I don't have to do that. um I think there was there was a joy of being different. And also, I don't think it's too big a thing to say a certain level of of um of comparison. it's's ah It's ah it' a funny sort of comparison to me. But, you know, when you've been picked on and you've been like treated badly. And then, then you know, you you look into the eyes of like an animal in, you know, really bad conditions. And you're like, well, I don't wish that on on anybody or on anything, on any life. So I think mum and I have have always been quite similar like that.
Gradual Transition to Veganism
00:08:27
Speaker
So you've made that transition to trying to avoid meat age sort of seven, eight years old, that that sort of age. So take us from there to when veganism starts to become in the picture. And you you said it was a slow transition. So take us through that.
00:08:43
Speaker
Yeah, I loved moving to Manchester because by this point I had come out as gay, living in the farming community. It was really traditional and it was just, it was horrible. And Manchester was on telly a lot when I was in my teenage years. So it was really spontaneous coming here and it wasn't really to do with...
00:09:08
Speaker
anything to with animal rights. It was to do with wanting to be an artist. Like, ah I didn't yet know that saying poetry, which is what I now do as a job, I didn't know that was a career path, but I knew that Manchester was full of arty people and and full of gays. So,
00:09:28
Speaker
ah But then very quickly, I realized, you know, what ah a big popular thing vegetarianism and and and veganism was. And I remember, I will be i will be um absolutely honest, that as a vegetarian, I can remember saying unpleasant things to vegans. I can remember being like, and It's a bit extreme, isn't it? Doesn't sound very healthy to me. I'm not seeing the hypocrisy that I dislike meat eaters saying that to me.
00:09:59
Speaker
ah But I was, you know I didn't think I was doing a bad thing. I wasn't trying to be nasty. I was I was like genuinely like, oh, no, it sounds a bit full on. No, no, no. you sure? But but that was the initial thing. Then I met vegans who were bubbly and lively and not.
00:10:17
Speaker
you know, collapsing from from lack of protein or B12 or anything. So, um yeah, ah i I pride myself on now being being one of those vegans that's quite a lively, bubbly person. So, yeah, it was slow. It was slow. I kind of like...
00:10:36
Speaker
I became really aware of eggs. And a bit like when I said to my mum as a boy, i only want to eat old animals. I was like, I'm only going to have um organic free range eggs. And I was really strict about that. And I realised how much stuff has egg in it as a binding ingredient. So I gave up all of that because it's like just...
00:10:57
Speaker
organic free range eggs, which was a big change in in my diet because I had been eating like scrambled egg, fried egg. And, you know, I've been vegan over a decade, maybe 16 years now. So there's amazing things that are on offer now, like scrambled tofu dishes that just weren't around when when um I started. um but I was really, really fixed on this. And then, of course, um I thought, well,
00:11:24
Speaker
What does organic free range egg mean to male chickens? What does it mean? What does free range mean? What's the definition of free range? I think i think it's the classic thing that everyone's like, oh, well, I only eat meat that's that's ethically treated. And it's like, well, well, you know, what is that? what What does that mean? Can I ask Dominic, at this stage, where are you getting your information from? Because you're what I'm hearing is that you're you're asking questions or or you're you're having sort of doubts about some of the aspects of of of how you're living your life and the things you're consuming. Is it others who are provoking you to to ask those questions of yourself or are you asking those questions and then seeking the answers out? Like what's the process there? That's a really good question. And it links into how do I now aim to be as a vegan speaking to non-vegans? Because we live in a society where I don't think we're a pro-confrontation society you know the the the government hate protesting they do stuff to make protesting difficult and we're often being told as vegans oh just be gentle with people be gentle be gentle no one likes being told unpleasant confrontational stuff But it was unpleasant confrontational stuff that made me vegan. I remember going along to vegetarian vegan festivals in Manchester and sometimes loving them and sometimes not loving them, sometimes feeling a little bit attacked as a vegetarian.
00:13:08
Speaker
But I'm glad I was because I went away and I thought of it. And when I say attacked, when I say attacked, that's not inherently bad. I don't mean attacked as in homophobic abuse I don't mean attacked as in called personal names. I mean, my beliefs were challenged, which is not an attack. It is not an attack. It is not to call that an attack is incorrect. And it's it's good to be able to say.
00:13:35
Speaker
look at this information. I know you don't want to see this information, but look at it. And I do not believe i would have gone vegan if everyone had just been like, oh, don't disrespect Dominic, gentle, gentle, because, you know, I was doing, i was making choices and then going to social groups where the people who I was with had information which was relevant to the choices that I was making. And yeah, I i am really glad that I had the opportunity go away and think about what I was choosing. So you're going on this journey, you're learning these things, you're being challenged, products are slowly kind of eking their way out of your diet, food types. Is there a point at which you say, right I'm jumping into this all the way now then Or is it is it gradual all the way? Is there a point when you say, right, today's the day I call myself vegan? how How did that go? I did not say I was vegan until I had been vegan for a bit because I was worried that I would...
00:14:40
Speaker
not stick to it and that people would judge me because by this point my career as a poet was beginning to take off and I'd really wanted that since moving to Manchester and meeting people who were poets and people who are poets if they're good poets, they use their platform as a person whose voices are heard as as a means to to say stuff that matters, say stuff that matters. And I wanted to do that. But i thought if I come out with a load of vegan poetry and then someone sees me back in McDonald's, like, I don't want to be that guy. don't want to be that guy at all. So, um,
00:15:23
Speaker
It's really lovely that some of my, well, pretty much all of my closest friends, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that they were influenced by me and they did make the transition from meat eater to vegan overnight.
00:15:40
Speaker
and stuck to it and have done for eight years, nine years. And that is definitely a way that it can safely be done. That is possible. Whatever diet you eat, you've got to be careful that you're eating healthy things. That's not... being, you know, a specific target of vegans, you know, anyone who eats anything, it's possible to eat well, or it's possible just sit and eat like, you know, dark chocolate for every single meal. That's not good, is it? You know, so like, whatever, whatever you're doing. Like you're a meat eater and all you do is eat chicken nuggets, that's not great. That's not great.
00:16:18
Speaker
Any diet, you could be healthy or unhealthy. So of course, in making a big transition, it has to be done with awareness. But yeah, it's interesting. My journey was a really, really slow one. And I was fully vegan before saying, I'm going vegan. When you're going through that transition, you've you've mentioned a a fear you've you've got of kind of maybe being being outed as not doing 100% or being caught out by that sort of things.
Veganism and Professional Life as a Poet
00:16:47
Speaker
What what are the
00:16:48
Speaker
mean, maybe fear is a strong word, but any trepidation you had or kind of doubts or or kind of nagging concerns that, oh, gosh, is this definitely the right thing to do? The fears were professional fears because I had a great desire to speak of my joy and passion and anger and sadness connected with veganism, anxiety, animal welfare. And by this point in my life, climate awareness, which was something I became more knowledgeable about far later into my vegan journey. So I didn't have doubt as regards to, oh, I really crave a McDonald's. It wasn't that so much. It was just that yeah I'm quite a slow writer. I thought if I go to all the effort of writing a vegan poetry and then I get up and I i say it, like an artist who's disingenuous is is not going to be respected. So if there was the slimmest chance that I weren't going to stick to it, that was my fear. It wasn't to do with my health or my diet or my personal taste preferences. None of that. like I was really, really enjoying eating vegan food. And I'll tell you a similarity between poetry and vegan food, a similarity similarity between poetry and vegan food, right? It's okay to not like a poem, right? It's okay. People feel really worried that people will think they're thick if they go, oh, but I i don't actually really like Carol Ann Duffy. That's all right. You don't have to. Other people can. You're allowed personal preference in the same way you can go, oh, well, I like rap music. I'm less keen on opera. You can say that. You can have. And the same thing with vegan food. You're allowed to have a vegan meal and go, oh, you know, that wasn't so much to my taste. It doesn't mean that all vegan food's rubbish. doesn't mean that all poetry's rubbish. In the same way, you wouldn't watch like one show on Netflix and go, Netflix isn't for me.
00:18:56
Speaker
You might say Netflix isn't for you for other reasons, but to base the entirety of a streaming service on one show would widely be seen as not really putting the effort in to have an informed opinion. But people do have like one little sliver of vegan cheese and go, oh! No, not for me. Not for me. And, you know, it's absolutely OK to be like, yeah, this isn't for me. Let's try something else. speaking about The only other option is bacon. There could be no other option.
00:19:30
Speaker
I mean, it's it sounds to me like the the sort of environment that you were in when you're making that transition to veganism is actually perhaps less sceptical than perhaps other environments that that people could have been in. I mean, we are talking like 15, 16 years ago, so that obviously ah a lot of progress has been made since then. But in terms of being in Manchester in in ah in quite a progressive scene with regards to your profession and and the animal rights in vegan and vegan scene then, Is it fair to say it was it was quite ah a vegan-friendly environment, or did it still feel like quite a vegan-sceptical environment?
00:20:07
Speaker
I think it was really vegan-friendly, and many a word has been said by many a far wiser person than me on the pros and cons of the internet in general. And back then, I did not have everyday access to the internet. I wonder, when I was a kid being bullied at school, how the internet might have helped or hindered me because these days online bullying is so awful and the terrible things that can happen. But then there are support groups too. And I am in a number of social media groups for vegans these days.
00:20:47
Speaker
And there are people who have been vegan for many, many years and new people who join. There's often a big influx in January, which is wonderful, joyful.
00:20:58
Speaker
the whole veganuary and new year's resolution malarkey going on so i think that it's great if we can find that support network and and it just takes skill to to to to be ah okay this group of people isn't for me on the internet and this group of people is and i the the many groups that i'm in i i think are really lovely i'm i'm very happy to be uh But then I'm one those, because I'm in my 40s, I'm still on Facebook. i go what What's Facebook? What's that? Was it around at the time of the dinosaurs? what is ah
00:21:38
Speaker
I remember my space, y'all.
Mindfulness and Joy in Vegan Cooking
00:21:42
Speaker
So let's let's go to those first few weeks or months of you trying to eliminate all animal use from your diet and and and other parts of your life too. Like what what things helped that transition the most?
00:22:02
Speaker
And I guess what things hindered, but let's go positive to start with. Things being really clearly labelled in restaurants, that's always good. But this coincided with me thinking that, and this is a personal opinion and you do not have to have the same opinion as me over this matter to be vegan, but home cooking's great. Home cooking's great. If we're thinking of vegan stuff that maybe is possible to have too much of in your diet, like too much salt, much sugar, too much sugar, you know, additives, preservatives that are put in ready meals.
00:22:40
Speaker
I think cooking from home can be a wonderful, joyful thing. And I was nervous about embracing it. I did not have...
00:22:52
Speaker
faith in my own abilities to cook. And these days, I love it. It's a real treat to make things from scratch and a real treat to invite friends over. And I'm being a bit sort hippy-dippy here, but yeah I believe you can taste in food when it is made with good energy. And it's so lovely to make food.
00:23:19
Speaker
food and i know that our society is very fast paced and people often are made to work long hours in areas where they would prefer to not be spending their time but cooking is so rewarding so rewarding and um and and can be inexpensive as well.
00:23:46
Speaker
I think what really comes across there, Dominic, is you're you're citing something that a lot of people might initially see as an obstacle, as a problem, but actually with with a slightly different attitude. It becomes an opportunity, doesn't it? And it becomes an area of personal growth and, like you say, immense joy, sharing it with other people, community, and and discovering, I don't know, maybe new cuisines, new ingredients, new new areas of your life that you didn't think could could bring joy for you, just if you open your mind to ah to a possibility that something could be different to how you're perceiving it in the first place. It's hard when when we've got fears and when we've got worries and anxieties and things, it can be hard sometimes to make that leap of faith. But if we can feel strong enough to just give something a go, you never know what you might find. I agree so much.
00:24:38
Speaker
And time that is spent mindfully and calmly is time well spent. So I'm a person who maybe doesn't do traditional meditation as often as I know would be a rewarding practice for me.
00:24:55
Speaker
But Making food can be a time of zoning out, of being preoccupied with the future, anxieties, stressing about the past, wishing we could change stuff that's been and gone.
00:25:11
Speaker
Cooking can be an act of meditation. It can be an act of present moment living, something that you do with your own hands, your your your own eyes, and yeah the the tangible quality of how flows.
00:25:26
Speaker
feels when you're preparing it. I really value that time. And it's so good for the brain, so good to to de-stress. It's really joyful. And a lot of my recipes are really simple. know, there's a number of different vegetables that could go in a really great bolognese. I tend not to use loads of the the mock meats. The mock meats are fantastic. I love them. They are processed. They are...
00:25:55
Speaker
high in salt and and preservatives. So they are what they are. I generally don't cook with them. I generally, you know, make things like chili and curries and casseroles and just go down the market and see what veg are there.
00:26:12
Speaker
Fewer ingredients is is good because then the ingredients really have space to to to do their thing and to shine. Whereas the temptation is to just bang in everything. Oh, you're super. And all the tastes i just sort of cancel each other out, really. You end up with mush. So fewer ingredients, although sweet potato is always going to be a strong contender, especially in ah in a in a curry. You know, sweet potato, you know, mixed with lentils and then all the lovely herbs and spices and, you know, maybe just something a bit more solid in there, like some mushrooms or, or you know, courgette. That could be a great thing. I mean, that...
Veganism's Impact on Career and Creativity
00:26:57
Speaker
That's I love the passion with which you're speaking about that. i'm I'm really feeling the vegan cooking evangelism there. And I know lots of other people will be too. um So that's one like really pleasant surprise, let's say of of of this journey, if that's not too strong a way of of of referencing it. What other surprises have there been pop positive or negative? Well, this is a very personal thing, but it it it has been good for my career. It's been good because, you know, i do feel really strongly about about veganism and, you know, I feel strongly about animal rights and the environment. And, and you know, I think in poetry, ah poetry is often used on advertisements these days. And that could be great in terms of putting on a platform, skillful use of rhyme and meter and imaginative construction of language. But if it's just trying to sell you something, as there's a... there's there's a there's a
00:27:56
Speaker
You know, there's there's ah there's a dual motivation. And also, it's going to be cosy. No advert is going to be saying anything radical. It's not because that's not the purpose of it. So, um yeah. ah May I share a poem with you? Absolutely. Please do. I was hoping you would offer.
00:28:16
Speaker
Super good. So I've got so many. I've got so many. But I'm going to think I'm going to share one called beleaguered vegan. I like the rhyme of beleaguered vegan. And it's possible that there may be moments of feeling beleaguered in the journey of people becoming vegan. So here's my poem called beleaguered vegan.
00:28:40
Speaker
This vegan is beleaguered. All this green cuisine tastes great. But every time he's out, there's someone studying his plate. A person who will grill him on his strange new age ambition. It seems so many meat eaters have doctorates in nutrition. What are you eating? Clumps of grass? He's asked about his platter. We have to eat the meat of beasts.
00:29:13
Speaker
Just don't eat those that matter. No cats, no dogs. Try steak. This beef is cruelty free, I'm told. And why would those who want our money lie about what's sold?
00:29:31
Speaker
It's normal. I'm not being rude, but I could not eat vegan food like apples. I enjoy a treat and fruit is all that vegans eat. Such little choice, I have no doubt. I know I could not live without my burgers, curries, chocolate, noodles, chilies, apples, strawberry, noodles, macaroni, strawberry shake, falafel, pizzas, curries, cakes. There's so much food. I know. I'd miss. A shame. Vegans can't eat none of this. I love it here. This food's the best.
00:30:11
Speaker
What's that? This is vegan. ah Yeah, I guessed. You have confirmed what I had feared. I did know this food tasted weird.
00:30:23
Speaker
This vegan is beleaguered, but before his vegan days, he once called vegans crazy, thought their lifestyles just a phase and said, my meat died happy.
00:30:38
Speaker
Was he there when she died? Should we trust some unseen farm and never look inside? When we could listen to Tom York and vegans who inspire.
00:30:52
Speaker
Alicia Silverstone, Benjamin Zephaniah, Pretenders Chrissy Hine, Jackasses Steve-O, Def Jam's Russell Simmons, this vegans come to know the way these days our milk is made.
00:31:10
Speaker
It's hardly happy how a constant chain of pregnancies is forced on every cow. We hear of free range chickens, not what a cockerel's worth.
00:31:27
Speaker
On free-range farms, they'll still grind up the male chicks at birth. So share those films of animals we're told are done, no harm. And battle global warming, stop the gas...
00:31:44
Speaker
from modern farms and seek out other vegans, for in numbers there is might. There's no time to be beleaguered. Now is time to join the fight.
00:32:01
Speaker
Outrageous. Outrageous. Thank you so much, Dominic. What a privilege to to have that performed for us. You're very, very welcome. And um do you know what I'm really happy about? i On my list of foods where like you know I list all the things, I messed up the list i completely. And I thought... Oh, should I say, doad oh, can I film it again? I thought, no, it's symbolic. It's a metaphor, right? Because I messed up the list and I kept going and it doesn't matter. And that's an analogy for anyone who's becoming vegan, who goes out to a party and deliberately or accidentally has ah a bit of...
00:32:39
Speaker
milk powder in there, or you know old oil as a bacon sandwich or whatnot. It's not the end of it. It's not the end. That poem, you know I kept going and and and had a joyful conclusion. And the same with our vegan journey. I know how it can feel when like you've set your sights or something, and maybe you've told other people, oh, I'm doing this thing, I'm doing this thing. And then there's a little blip.
00:33:04
Speaker
And, you know, everyone's been there. Everyone's been there. And it doesn't have to be the end of the journey. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. You know, you just do the next day is a new day. And, you know, for some of my friends, it was really easy. Like one um one of my friends, yeah, he was such a staunch meat eater, grew up on a farm and he just switched vegan and has never looked back and To my knowledge, never had a blip, never had. And that's his journey. Then I've got another friend who's found it really difficult with her in-laws and, you know, sometimes struggling with those kind of scenarios. But she's kept going. She's kept going. And she's kept her accessing people who are supportive and joyful and celebratory and and encouraging of her on the journey. And she really believes what she's doing, as I do. So, yeah. We've got to keep on going. Absolutely. I'm i'm so glad you said that because i that that's that's something I've experienced personally.
Flexibility in the Vegan Journey
00:34:02
Speaker
you know i've Since saying I've been vegan, I've i've not been 100% vegan the whole whole time. Generally speaking, that was at the start of my journey that that I had a few struggles and they would they were social ones, as as you've alluded to earlier, not wanting to say to somebody, you know, that food you've cooked,
00:34:19
Speaker
just chuck it in the bin because I'm not going to eat it. You know, I didn't didn't have the tools or resources to to navigate that, but but that develops over time, doesn't it? And, you know, it's it's a journey and and and really...
00:34:32
Speaker
what we're looking at is a numbers game. but ah and That's my belief anyway, is it's it's a numbers game and we've got the rest of our lives to reduce or eliminate as as much suffering as as possible and actually feeling like we need to give up because we've made a few mistakes or we don't feel like we can we can stick at it. You know, it's a real shame that that somebody would feel that way and I think as a vegan community we can we should do as much as we can to try and help keep people i want to say keep people on the horse but that's not that that's not the right analogy to use is it you've you've given some really good advice there will lots of different bits of advice to people who are are going on their journey now if if you could go back to your earlier self at the start of your
00:35:18
Speaker
vegan journey or maybe your your vegetarian journey what what advice would you give yourself or what what would you do differently if if if anything the advice i'd give myself for uh the journey into vegetarianism and veganism is the same advice i would give myself in most scenarios really definitely in becoming a poet becoming self-employed, getting older, having my own flat, you know, just if someone ventures their opinion, think, do I care about their opinion? Because not all opinions need to even be listen to. And ah sometimes I can feel really confident and sometimes i don't feel so confident. I think that's a fairly normal thing to to experience. And I have certainly had plenty of times where people have been very forward with their views and i've I've really been affected by it. And I'm not saying I'm a master of sort of like water off a duck's back
00:36:23
Speaker
ah being, but i aim towards that. I aim towards that. And if someone says something that's nonsense, then it's nonsense. And that's the end to it. And doesn't mean that I have to be confrontational with them. Maybe I might choose to be confrontational or maybe I might choose not to be, but I don't have to be. I don't have to be you know, i can be less affected by their nonsense opinions. Yeah, especially if it's a person who who's got some sort of power, be it like someone in an employment situation or a sort of external family member, when there's complicated interpersonal dynamics going on there. Like, I think we've all had like a family gathering where somebody's just spouted a load of nonsense and we can...
00:37:15
Speaker
have emotions about that without doubting ourselves, without doubting ourselves. You know, is it's the curse the modern age, isn't it? People saying opinions really confidently and their confidence carrying a greater importance than the things they are saying. And I've been on the receiving end of being like, oh no, but you know, maybe they're right. Maybe I am silly. Maybe I am a snowflake. Ha it' Snowflake pride, y'all! Oh, great. um In terms of how your how your vegan journey has has evolved, we've we've talked a lot about that transition of the period just before it, then when it's happening. but you' you've been vegan ah a little while now.
00:38:03
Speaker
Has the way that you have identified as a vegan or or lived your life or or or felt about the issues and different issues associated with it, has that evolved?
Natural Integration of Veganism into Life
00:38:14
Speaker
Has has that changed through time? Obviously for people who are just dipping their toe into veganism now, they're not really thinking about that, but it it can be interesting to know how these things can mature and develop over time, I guess. ah If we make any great change to our life, be it we might ah get into a romantic relationship with someone or we might move from living with a large family structure to an even larger one or a smaller one living on our own. It feels a thing when there's a change and change happens. You know, everything's impermanent when there's a change.
00:38:48
Speaker
It can feel a ah shocking thing. And I don't feel challenged by me being vegan in any way. If if a person...
00:39:03
Speaker
has the ah power and momentum to be an activist and to be there out there all the time campaigning and protesting. That is glorious and brilliant.
00:39:13
Speaker
But if you're listening to this, you're thinking, but that's not me. You know, I don't have that to offer the world. And it sounds so difficult being vegan. It isn't. It isn't like for me, what has changed is it is just normal. it is just my day to day. And I don't examine every packet. You know, when people start thinking about things like gelatin, never heard of jet what is gelatin. Oh, my goodness. So gelatin is not vegan. You know, when when you think. think that you're doing really well and you've crashed, but all my favourite things have got like beeswax in them. Like, you i can feel a bit of a huge journey, but I know all the things that are and aren't vegan now. You know, it's just second nature. And and I know it can sound like, what, really? you You like, no... Well, yeah, yeah. And it's just like not, you know, and if they do secretly change an ingredient, as sometimes things do, and I accidentally have milk powder, then again, like it's, it's, it's, it's not like everything I eat suddenly completely changes. That's never going to happen on my vegan journey. it might be one thing I think, all right, well, I'm going to choose to not have that now. And it's simple. It'll be like one blip that wasn't my fault. And it's like, oh, right, you know, and, and,
00:40:36
Speaker
i i am I am that way. i am that way. So I want to reassure people that i think, oh it feels so much. Well, it might do at first. It's the same way that any change in our life can feel like a change because it is a change. But it's not that way forever. I do not feel hindered or restricted in any way. i said in my poem about, oh, such little choice is a thing you get all the time. And it's like, you know what? I'm 44 years old.
00:41:06
Speaker
I have not eaten every vegan food there is. If you have eaten every single vegan food there is, then you could be in a position to say, oh, it's such a limited diet. But, you know, if you say to people, oh, what's the bigger number, a billion or a trillion? It's kind of irrelevant, isn't it? if They're both such big numbers that, you know, you you're never going to count up to them all. It doesn't matter. It's not limiting being vegan because there's so much choice and I've not yet had everything. You often stumble across dishes or seek out dishes or given dishes that are new and wonderful. Or maybe they're not wonderful. Maybe go, you know, that's less to my taste, really. And it's all beautiful, but it's not limiting at all. And I think the point you make about those initial, I don't know, let's call them teething difficulties with a ah new type of lifestyle, that's that's really important to remember, isn't it? And like you know you you go into to schools with your work work, working with children. And when you think of all the steps that's required for somebody to hear some words and then...
00:42:22
Speaker
write them down on a piece of paper. Hugely complex things that people have to be able to do. They have to understand language, they have to be able to pick up a pen, they have to be able to write, understand letters, and yet that becomes a fluent skill.
00:42:35
Speaker
um Whereas at the start, it's it's so difficult and every little step of it is is really hard. And actually, but going vegan is is far easier than learning to write or learning to read and things like that. So it's it does become fluent, doesn't it? i I'd like to ask you for some top tips and some kind of like summing up points for for people who are ah going or starting their vegan journey in a moment dominic but i've got a couple of the little questions before we we get there and maybe hopefully there'll be time for another poem if if if you're happy to you've been vegan for 15 16 years what what do you think are the the difficulties with with being vegan or with with the vegan community that that people aren't talking about enough like what what can we do better oh
00:43:20
Speaker
Ooh, oh. I think that in any walk of life, in the same way as I say, it's okay to not like a poem. mean you hate all poems. You could not like one Netflix show. It doesn't necessarily mean you dislike all Netflix.
00:43:34
Speaker
I guess with people, I guess maybe there are some vegans who I've met in my life or I think, oh, for other non-vegan reasons, I don't really get on with you, so I generally avoid you. I don't have to be busy mates with someone just because they're vegan. I i generally am But I kind of think that I'm quite good at spending time with people who I choose to spend time with. So I i don't feel any ah awkwardness so or hostility or or anything that that negative from from any vegans who who I personally know. There's people who can act in ways we dislike in any community, I guess. But I'm very fortunate that I don't i don't think...
00:44:20
Speaker
There's nothing I'd change out, nothing. Is there anything then, if I can change the phrasing of the question, anything you think that people need more support with than they're being given? Because I think there are there are lots of things that we do well in the vegan movement or that are. are rapidly increasing. So if you look at, say, I don't know, vegan ready meals, there's, you know, you could have a different one for every day of the year, for example, whereas I don't know whether we give enough support to one another all the time. I don't know. I think that sometimes there's, there's issues that we could preempt a bit better, or i don't know. There's always going to be things we can improve on. My experience of people is a great experience. What I do think new vegans might find a challenge, which was not a challenge when I became vegan, so a new challenge is junk food everywhere. So when I became vegan, there were fewer options, but the options were mostly healthy. And fair play, people have been like, you know what? We're allowed to like burgers. We're allowed to like sausages. But oh, my goodness. um I shared a flat with a wonderful ah vegan woman, a friend who I really liked. But her diet, it was a dismal it was abysmal. It was abysmal. And she was about 10 years younger than me. And I thought, you're not doing yourself any favours. So something that I think ah we we could do better is seek out healthier food. Because the the is is that the the dominant vegan force is junk.
00:46:02
Speaker
And there's a place for it. And I'm no stranger to a little bit of junk food now and again. But it's... not good to have that every day. And people are, people are. And they're, you it's quite hard actually. See, if you're eating out to find, you know there are places that do like massive, like sort of salad-y type things like Buddha bowls and stuff with like ah African vegetables. They're just really exotic and tasty and healthy and brilliant. And I will always like seek out that because I think that's going to be that the harder sell for the restaurant. I bet they sell fewer of this vegan option. and And, you know, that is something to be supported.
00:46:47
Speaker
I can say from personal experience, owning a restaurant, they are definitely the harder sell, the healthier things. And you you occasionally get the old school hardcore vegan come and go, why don't you do more whole foods? because Because no one buys it and then we have to throw it out or eat it ourselves. Well, eat it ourselves until you know we can't eat anymore and then.
00:47:05
Speaker
Yeah, then have to give the rest away or whatever. You've segued nicely into the other question I was going to ask you, which was hypothetical time travel.
Reflecting on Hypothetical Vegan Journey Starting in 2024
00:47:13
Speaker
Let's say your vegan journey starts today, 2024. What do you think it would look like for you personally? How would you react to starting your vegan journey now? i I think I would be eating burgers every day. I think that's what my vegan journey would be. And a big reason I gave up dairy cheese, I mentioned way earlier on about giving stuff up bit by bit on my journey through eggs. Well, cheese actually was nothing to do with awareness of ah how cows are treated for milk. It has to do with getting overweight and me wanting to lose
00:47:49
Speaker
weight and giving up cheese for for that reason and it being successful. And then, as I also mentioned earlier, um deciding, right, I'll eat dairy cheese in moderation and buying some after about three months of not having it and really having lost the taste. And we hear that from people all the time. Like, oh, i could never give up cheese. I could never give up cheese. And as a vegetarian, I had cheese every day, at least once,
00:48:16
Speaker
meal a day, often lunch and dinner often. And I loved it. I loved it. My tastes change. ah Buying myself cheese as a treat, having given it up for weight reasons, non-vegan reasons and disliking it, but being someone who doesn't believe in weight. So forcing myself to eat because I was living on my own at the time. So I ate it all bit by bit, hated every bite and thought, well, if I want to keep this weight off, maybe it's a good thing to not eat cheese. But think my vegan journey now would be in the world where these things are all around us, not dairy cheese, but like the the vegan junk food and and how delicious it can taste. And I think... that it would be it would be it would be a great challenge. It would be a great challenge. I also, I work away from home a lot. So ah I don't always have the luxury of having accommodation which has a kitchen. So, but there there are curries. There are curries. You know, curries are are not not burgers. So, yeah. ah Okay, last last question then, and then if we can finish on a poem, that would be a a great privilege to to have have two in one recording.
Encouragement for New Vegans and Addressing Protein Concerns
00:49:27
Speaker
I'm going to give you one minute in an elevator ride now with somebody who is just starting Veganuary now or has been vegan for for a month or so. You've got a minute to give them as much wisdom, as many tips or suggestions.
00:49:42
Speaker
ah or whatever is as you can, what are you going to say to them? I'm not saying that it's good to be really big-headed and arrogant, but it's done my self-worth such good. As someone who was bullied, who felt really bad about themselves, to to know that I really am doing a good thing, that I'm You know, we we all know the the kicking off about plastic straws and how these little things, and I am going to call them little things, can become icons that that cynical businesses use to twist us into. You know, this really is a great thing in terms of
00:50:16
Speaker
environmental impact and reducing the harm to the world in which we all live before we even think about whether we ourselves would be able to go out and and and kill an animal for food, whether we can do that, whether we agree from a, you know, ah caring about other lives, just the environmental impact. I feel really proud of of me being vegan and person in an elevator i feel really proud of you for being vegan well done you so keep on at it fantastic you've you've done that like three seconds before the the elevator doors opened as well like absolutely brilliant timing you can can tell you do this for a living well not not uh collaring people in elevators but um public speaking Dominic, it's been such a pleasure to to speak with you this evening. and And I know everyone listening will will feel really inspired and educated and and really, really heard from from the things you're saying. So thank you so much for that. If we can finish with ah a poem of your choice, that would be absolutely outstanding. Oh, I would love to. Well, the first one I did, Beleaguered Vegan, is a poem that I often say. But this year's a big year for me. ah Christmas 2024, I'm having a selected poems book being published, the kind of greatest hits of my poetry. And the one I said before, Beleaguered Vegan, sadly, that's one that isn't going in there. But this next one is, and I'm really glad because it's a poem that I wrote at a
00:51:45
Speaker
Very specific time in my life. And that period isn't so well documented. So this poem, I'm going to say now, the fact is going to be in this book. Buy the book, everyone. Buy the book when it comes out. ah This is a poem all about a question we often get asked about. It's a poem about protein.
00:52:04
Speaker
And it goes like this. protein protein protein Protein, protein, protein, protein, protein is a biochemical compound whose name Basilius found. Von Voigt claimed flesh makes flesh.
00:52:23
Speaker
Sanger sequenced insulin, Peritz prized haemoglobin, and the Swedish were impressed. More studies on its benefits directed mutagenesis, as Weissmann had foreseen. Now to give these claims such credence does not distract from this grievance.
00:52:44
Speaker
Where do vegans get protein? What exactly do you eat? It can't be healthy. No meat. Such Shakespearean introspection between the facts to delve lament. Be 12 or not be 12? Surely that must be the question.
00:53:07
Speaker
Well, it's simple to eat sensible. The soybean lacks cholesterol, is easily fortified, and cooked can taste exceptional, tongue-tinglingly sensual. And yes, it does provide protein, as does peanut butter, black beans, flaxseeds, pecans, almonds, lentils, and cashews. And yet, here is my beef.
00:53:33
Speaker
I hear debates on my belief. People question what I choose when I don't choose for pigs to feel.
00:53:48
Speaker
ah don't believe their pain is real. That's fact, not myth and not needed.
00:53:59
Speaker
So can we... in evolution, swap those myths for resolution, see the cruelty superseded the facts of proteins' chemistry, are documents through history, they're laid out plain and clear.
00:54:17
Speaker
So, I hopefully wait for an honest heartfelt date when proteins myths will finally disappear That was brilliant. Thank you so much, Dominic. A very fitting end for the show and a very comprehensive answer to that question. where Where do you get your protein? We can mean just play that now. That's that's easy. That's one one less thing we need to worry about. That was outstanding. I'm going to say thank you very much for being on the show and have a super rest of your evening. Oh, thank you so very much for having me. It has been a joy.
00:55:11
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
00:55:26
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:55:52
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
00:56:13
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
00:56:28
Speaker
Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.