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Business of Machining - Episode 17
266 Plays8 years ago
X-Rays and broken bones but everyone is safe! Full of energy and passion, the Open House has an even better year than the last. Grimsmo gears up for his 6th trip to the world's largest knife show. The amateur bug bites Saunders when Niagara Cutter pays a visit and it was caught on camera. The E-Myth Revisited is (oddly enough) REVISITED by Saunders. Are you a technician, a manager, or an entrepreneur? Join them as they discuss current roles and responsibilities and goals for the future. What would you do if money were no option? Sometimes you have to think big! E-Myth Book: http://amzn.to/2rjGH85
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Reflections
00:00:00
Speaker
Good morning, folks. My name is John Saunders, and I am John Grimsmough. Welcome to the Business of Machining, Episode 17.
00:00:11
Speaker
John and I had to talk to figure out which episode it was because we've been talking for over a year now and we've we've skipped maybe one I think but this week the past two weeks we skipped two in a row one because of the NYC CNC open house and then last week we both had we both had injuries on the home front
Family Stories and Event Experiences
00:00:31
Speaker
Yeah, my son had to go into the hospital for a chest x-ray, just breathing issues. Nothing major. Antibiotics, he's good to go. And your son? William took a fall off of the slide at school and actually broke his elbow. Minor, though, in the same thing. Three weeks in the sling, he'll be fine. That's odd.
00:00:50
Speaker
Yeah, I wanted to mention the open house because we went this was two weeks ago and What an amazing event like holy cow And I was able to bring my wife and kids and my kids got along with your kids And it was just like best friends all around yeah
00:01:07
Speaker
That's what made it fun. I know we've been friends, but seeing it transcend beyond that with interacting with the fans, the entrepreneurship, the energy, and then hanging out with Megan and your kids again, and my wife meeting them, that was awesome. Yeah, it was just amazing. And as you said, the energy of the event was so pure and strong that it's different than when I go to the knife shows, because the knife shows, people are there for specific reasons. But at your show, it's all
00:01:34
Speaker
business, entrepreneur, do-it-yourself, make stuff. It's a very cool vibe. Yeah, it was actually a better event than last year, which I had hoped and planned, and it should be, but the energy, that passion, that shared beliefs was just awesome.
00:01:53
Speaker
Yeah, so it was, yes. So that's the kind of, I mean, that's what makes you happy. That's what life's all about. I want to hang out with those people. I want to be around those people. I want to be inspired by those people. Inspiring other people to me is awesome. Inspirational, does that make sense? So I was super happy. It was also exhausting.
Insights from Knife Clinics and Filming Challenges
00:02:12
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, neither one of us could walk more than two feet across the whole building without, you know, being drawn into another excellent conversation. How were your, I don't even know, really caught up with you. How were your knife clinics? Really good. So you had three clinics and they sort of all melded into one, which I understand, you know, best of hopes kind of thing.
00:02:36
Speaker
But basically every 30 minutes I'd ask around, who's new for this 30 minute chunk? And then I'd kind of do the story again a bit differently.
00:02:45
Speaker
But they went really well. I had a great group of people, a lot of super interesting questions. Do you get questions that you haven't heard before, or is there a common question that you often answer? Well, I bring one of my big fixtures, and I bring a bunch of parts, and I dump the whole ton of lathe parts, tiny parts onto the table, and people would pick them up and ask questions. Fixturing is definitely one of the biggest questions.
00:03:10
Speaker
flow and process control. People were really asking questions about that, like what are the steps involved in making a knife? And sometimes when they ask that, you can't even tell if they're, you know, clueless or if they know and they want more information. You know, like it's, I'm just curious what these steps are involved in doing all of this. And most people are blown away by how many steps are actually involved.
00:03:38
Speaker
No, seriously, to go from nothing to something with one of your knives is mind-blowing to me when you start to take it apart. I saw that box of parts. I know that had some extras and scraps and so forth, but holy cow. It's incredible, John. Yeah. I was thinking, I've been throwing away all my scrap-laid parts, all the ones that didn't tolerance out or just had mistakes. But I kind of wish I would have kept them all, because it'd be like this gigantic bucket of
00:04:09
Speaker
Well, I've got great news for you. You either will never produce a piece of scrap again the rest of your life, in which case you have no parts to show off as scrap, or you'll make some scrap, and that problem solves itself. I wouldn't lose sleep over that one.
00:04:25
Speaker
I got caught, I got caught by an amateur bug last week. Seco Tools asked if they could come film this new end mill tool and I know the guy and I said, yeah, sure, you know, it'd be fun to put it in the hot, see what it can do. And so they came and they brought a eight inch by three inch by five inch piece of 4140. So pretty, pretty good size, pretty expensive chunk of material for just playing. And they brought the end mills and so forth.
00:04:51
Speaker
And they had me cam it up ahead of time in Fusion, no big deal, but basically adaptives to see what it could do for high speed machining. So it's my fault for not catching this. Any idea what happened? If it wasn't a work coordinate issue,
00:05:09
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah. They emailed me and they said, Hey, can this up eight, eight by three by five. Here's the tool path. Here's the model. Here are your feeds and speeds. Uh, I never thought about what I think about every day when we run both our job shop and our production work, which is that it's saw cut. And that means it's saw cut over length.
00:05:29
Speaker
and when you're testing a tool where it's already your starting recipe, because you're starting with guys that are in the know, your starting recipe is not a cushy, comfortable level. And so the great news is of course we've got this all on film. So two things actually.
00:05:46
Speaker
Two things happened. One, the initial cut was so aggressive that it actually pulled started to pull the piece out of the vice. So we were doomed from the get go because of that. No one saw it, which I think I didn't see it because I was focused on the cameras. Normally I think I would catch that. Um, but then when it got to, cause we probed off the top left. So the fact that the stock was oversized didn't matter until we got to the right hand side. And when we got to the right hand side, Oh, did she snap? Whoo.
00:06:15
Speaker
Anyways, not a big deal, more just funny and embarrassing. Right, but that's the kind of stuff that happens. But who doesn't check their stock? Yeah. But you cammed it up before your stock. Right. I made the false assumption of thinking that they're going to bring me a pre-machined blank, not a saw cut blank, which is absurd, of course.
00:06:34
Speaker
But you might not even know which length is cut on, depending on the size of the material. Correct. Right. It was cut on the normal length. But anyways, I should have just stuck a ruler down or a tape and checked it. And I'm going to blame the cameras on why it's easy to forget to do something like that. Multitasking, man. Doing too many things at once. You have Julie for the cameras now. Right. Yeah, no, it's been great. It's been awesome. Not what I expected in the sense that
00:07:02
Speaker
I'm so happy that we are doing a better job film. It's like we're using a tool the correct way now. Think about someone who isn't a machinist, like a manufacturing company that makes something just, like a sheet metal company that just bought a mill to do stuff with it.
00:07:19
Speaker
Like somebody else cams it up, they just hit the go button, they don't care about it, they don't know about it. That's kind of what I felt like with cameras. I mean, I cared about the result, but I didn't, I'm not a camera guy. So it's awesome to have somebody who knows that, you know, that can do with the lighting and the composition. And you know what's funny? I filmed last Sunday on my own a little, and
00:07:37
Speaker
I think because I felt pressured, because she does a better job, and because I care, and I really care, I actually took really five, seven minutes, grabbed one or two of her lights, or the lights that we now have that are hers, and set them up with the camera, paid a little more attention to my focus and my aperture, and ISO, and got a darn good shot. Anyway. But different method than you've done before she came along.
00:08:06
Speaker
Yeah, it was. I think it's kind of a rising tide, you know, raises all ships. Exactly, yeah. Which does make me feel good because I like the autonomy of being able to film on my own. I don't like this. I think you would agree. I would agree, yeah. This idea of having tools or parts of your business and livelihood that you don't even know how to use, I don't like that. Yeah. But that might be inevitable, John.
Improving Processes and Delegation for Growth
00:08:28
Speaker
It is. It's becoming inevitable. Like around here, I've got some areas I understand how they work. I've seen Eric and Barry, you know, run these jobs and I can explain it to another guy, but I've never actually run it. Like, you know, we've made 700 knives or so and I've never sharpened one of them because Eric is my sharpening guy. I've seen him do it. I could probably pick it up and do a maybe okay job, but I've never done it, right? Like, I don't think I've ever done the heat treating myself, but I've seen them do it a hundred times.
00:08:56
Speaker
Right, right. Yeah, so like I understand it, but I couldn't just stand up and do it myself. Yeah, and that's okay. It is okay. It's weird, but I've become okay with it because that's... I think what's not okay is the fact that you have not done as good a job as you need to and this is all you do need to do now of documenting. Yes, and I've been thinking a lot about that and we've been starting to actually.
00:09:18
Speaker
Good. What have you been starting? Even little things like when Barry comes in the morning, he wants to warm up the mill, run the warm up program, turn it on, make sure it's all set up so that when I come in 30 minutes later, the machine's all warmed up. So in my mind, it's easy. You just do a couple of things. But then we started to write it down. And there's a lot of steps involved to have a non-experienced person come in and do that and not crash it. Yep.
00:09:47
Speaker
So yeah, that was an interesting experience. It took a lot more notes than I expected, but now he can do it, you know.
00:09:53
Speaker
Yeah, but it's tough, too. There's an art to writing these lists, whether you call them to-do lists or process lists, because if you write the list in a way that is incorrect for its audience, it becomes patronizing. You become mad when you're the doer, because you're like, OK, come on, screw you. I know to do that. And you don't treat the list with the same amount of respect. So it's interesting. And I actually have been iterating through some of our QC lists and some of our setup lists
00:10:22
Speaker
And like I said, I think I told you this on a previous business of machining, even if you know it's a draft format, buy the laminator, laminate it up, it makes you treat it with respect, it makes you, it makes you, it's just a good step, and then tomorrow when you throw it out because you've redone it, that's fine, and you'll do that five times or something.
00:10:42
Speaker
Yeah, I need to get one of those laminators because I have thought of exactly what you just said. The whole treaty with respect thing. Because otherwise it's just a little scrap of notebook paper floating around. Yeah, it gets oil on it and crinkled up. Yeah, and then you miss it.
00:10:57
Speaker
When you get the laminator, lay it out on a flat table because I always put it next to something. And then when it comes out really hot, it gets pushed up against something on the backside and it curls up and then it cools in a curled shape. And then you have like wavy setup sheets, which does not work. Good to know. That's funny. I would have to get out the iron I used to use to do DIY PCB boards to straighten it out. And that's something I should not be doing anymore. That's awesome.
00:11:27
Speaker
Yeah, okay, so on that note. I've been reading or rereading rather. I guess it's been a long time the emith revisited. Yeah Actually, I think it's funny. I sent you a screenshot because I was like I know I've read this book and God bless Amazon They keep everything I bought it in like 2002 or something absurd and So it's basically re basically reading it from scratch because I don't know about you, but I can't remember what I read 15 years ago. Yeah, and I
00:11:55
Speaker
I have come to a really important conclusion that I'm going to make. I'm going to make you embrace and you're going to make me embrace, which is that we should not be doing anything in our business that cannot eventually be handled by a technician. Yeah.
00:12:16
Speaker
So the book, for those of you listening, the book, and I'm summarizing greatly, you should read the book, although I have some thoughts about that as well, but the book separates people into three categories, technicians, managers, and entrepreneurs. If it's not obvious, technician would be the doer, the guy who's at the machine, at the circuit board, at the pipe. The manager would be the person that kind of oversees things from an operational or inward business point, and the entrepreneur is the thinker, the doer, the planner, the vision, the strategy,
00:12:44
Speaker
I really think of you, John, when I think about that sort of a person thinking big and not worrying about the minutia of day-to-day stuff. And I'm still guilty. And I think this actually is a really good way of summarizing why I've flip-flopped on whether I want to take on job shop work or not. I don't mind job shop work that's complicated or job shop work that has risk to it. I mind job shop work that can't be handled by others. Right. When it's complicated and risky, you're in charge of it and you don't have time for that.
00:13:13
Speaker
Exactly. And it's not because I don't want to. I actually really do like doing that. And the book nails that down. Don't start a business because you love baking pies, because writing a pie baking business has nothing to do with baking pies. Right, because then you're just creating a job for yourself, which I've felt many times over the years, like you almost create your own prison. You have to come in.
00:13:39
Speaker
You have to do all three jobs, technician, manager, entrepreneur. And of course, that's how you start a business. As a bootstrapper, as a solopreneur, that's the only way to start. But as we grow, you've got some people now. I've got some people now. We've got to get a lot smarter with how we're utilizing ourselves and utilizing them too.
00:14:00
Speaker
And it's actually almost embarrassing. I told you about how I go Wednesday mornings to the coffee shop and think for an hour. What that really is saying, and I work between 70 and 90 hours a week. What that really means is I'm being an entrepreneur for about one hour a week. And really a technician and maybe a little bit of manager the rest. That's not good, John. But imagine if you could flip the tides of that. We will. We are. Right.
00:14:27
Speaker
And it's been good this week. We're having my grandfather's sort of estate sale tomorrow, actually. By the way, folks, skipping two weeks was good because we had a four-week buffer. So now this is gonna be a little bit more real time of a podcast, which helps, because we like to post stuff on Instagram and YouTube that is more timely.
00:14:47
Speaker
So we're having his estate sale this weekend and it was I wanted to help my father out because I think it was the right thing to do and I wanted to You could call part of the sort of healing process of how you deal with death and grief and life and so I've been down at the farm for Almost three and a half days this week, which is pretty
00:15:06
Speaker
I haven't been, unless I've been traveling, I've never been away from the shop this much. And it's great. Julie's been working, Noah's been working, Jarrah's been working. We hired another intern from the local high school program, which to me is like, even if there are perils of
00:15:23
Speaker
payroll perils not so much financial but managerial perils to me I have to do it I can't consider myself successful if I'm not paying it forward and I think we pay it forward with YouTube I know we do but I care about where I live and I've got to bring people in and give those people a chance to see what we do learn have some experience and I think I'm good at this I think I'm good at giving people a role model or or
00:15:50
Speaker
hopefully some of what I've been through can rub off on them, they can see work ethic and so forth. Yep, yep. And give them the chance to have experience in a good, successful, you know, honest business. Right, right. Yeah.
00:16:05
Speaker
Anyways, having been away at the farm this week has been really good to help me understand and improve. I want to be at my shop because it's what I love doing, and I think it's important for a variety of reasons, but I shouldn't have to be here for a significant portion of things to continue working and happening.
00:16:24
Speaker
Yeah, and once you can start to divide yourself, all your two dozen roles, you know, everything from making parts to shipping, to CAD CAM, to dealing with customers, to et cetera, and you can start to offload that to your people, then you can start to step back.
00:16:41
Speaker
No, not step back, step up. That's a good way to phrase it. I like that. Step back is never something that's going to happen to me. True, true, true. But it's got to be sustainable. I think I was talking to my wife, Yvonne, and I was like, you know, the thing about getting burned out is I don't think
00:16:56
Speaker
I don't you know if you consider burning out running up a hill you know when you run up a hill you know you're getting more tired along the way with burning out I don't feel like you ever have a sense of escalating scale no feel like for me and I haven't burned out that too many times I get stressed a lot but I don't I haven't burned out like really like
00:17:16
Speaker
throw your hands up in the air, kind of have a, I hate to use the word, but meltdown. But I don't, to me, it's more binary. You don't necessarily see it coming. I totally agree with you. Yeah, I mean, stressed out is a common occurrence between you and I, but yeah, burnout is, I mean, you gotta work crazy hours for a very long time before you actually like, you know, get to the point where you need to take a day off or something. Right. Yeah.
00:17:44
Speaker
How have you been the last few
Upcoming Events and Business Expansion Plans
00:17:45
Speaker
weeks? What's been going on at the shop? It's been good. Super good. We've got Blade Show coming up in two weeks away today will be the first day. Oh wow. That's in Atlanta? That's in Atlanta, Georgia. It's the world's biggest knife show. We've been going for six years now. We get a booth there every year. That's crazy. Yeah. And there's 10,000 plus people that come to attend this event.
00:18:10
Speaker
Every year that we go, we're not to sound vain, but we're more popular, we're more well-known among the industry. Our YouTube videos get more views and everything.
00:18:21
Speaker
You know, the interaction that we get to have with our customers and our fans just compounds every single year. Last year was pretty crazy. I'm excited to see this year. Just because I go to interact with the fans and the customers and to meet people and to meet other knife makers and to learn. The first few years, it was definitely to learn. That was one of the best reasons of going to these shows.
00:18:43
Speaker
I don't know everything at all, but I'm fairly comfortable in my knife making abilities. I want to learn machining now, which I can't learn at a knife show. I get to talk to other entrepreneurs too, not just knife makers, but my customers. Some of my customers have big businesses.
00:19:03
Speaker
which is amazing and I get to meet them at the show. And if that comes up in conversation, which I usually force, then I get to get some really good perspective from some very successful people. That's what it's all about. Yeah, totally. It's so funny you said that because I feel the same way with some of the stuff we're doing right now. I feel like I'm just starting to learn machine. Yeah.
00:19:25
Speaker
Isn't that weird? It is. We've had 10 years of practice and then now it's starting to get good, you know? Right. Right. Well, so let's just throw it out there. I was kind of hesitant to, I don't know why I was hesitant, but we're going to buy a second machine and I am
00:19:43
Speaker
I haven't pulled the trigger. Well, okay, let's just throw it out there. I haven't pulled the trigger because right now it would take my cash to zero. So to me, I'm not gonna put more money into the business. I've never really done that. The business needs to support itself, even as I reinvest in equipment. So I'm gonna hustle for the next few weeks or whatever, get that cash up a little, which I can do, and that gets me motivated and keeps me responsible.
00:20:10
Speaker
I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but it's gonna be a VF2SS, smaller machine. I definitely lose sleep over, oh my gosh, get a VF3, that's a 40 by 20 machine, that's such a standard size. But then if you get a VF3, it's only $3,000 more to get a VF4, which is 50 by 20, huge travel area.
00:20:28
Speaker
But then I'm like, no, that's not what I want. I want a machine that is less expensive, that can do more focused, smaller jobs or more focused work. The VM3 has not stopped since the open house. And it's literally this morning, Jared's like, hey, what do you want me working on? And we've got the Tormox running as well.
00:20:47
Speaker
on our Bridgeport Power Draw Bars, but there's some stuff where I need a second BMC running. I just do. So it's a good problem to be in. It's a problem in the sense that I really think it's the way modern manufacturing works with respect to payroll, the cost of employees, the cost of overhead. You've got to have, and you can. I mean, Jared wants to be running two machines or three machines. So that's all great. It's a little bit,
00:21:14
Speaker
disruptive in the sense that I did not anticipate this need. But that's great. So soon. I mean, you've had your VM3 for six months now.
00:21:23
Speaker
Yeah, that was crazy. Yeah. I don't even know why I brought that up. But oh, no, so you thought learning machines. So now what I'm thinking about is work holding. And what's that workflow? And I'm actually thinking about going to a pallet system. Because I love the orange vices. They're very versatile. They're very
00:21:45
Speaker
The versatility is huge, and I won't change them on the VM3 because we've got a really good workflow down. And I like the pallets that you and I have made pallets for those orange vices. But looking at the one that Jay Pearson had at the open house, I don't know what he calls it, smart hole or something. Not smart vac. His hold down. Yeah, I know what you mean.
00:22:10
Speaker
We can have a cart next to the machine with all of these different pallets all preloaded with parts and the program number engraved in. And then whatever we need to, we can basically not only have offline fixture, but we can have offline workflow. Yeah.
00:22:26
Speaker
and then it just feeds into the machine, I'm actually working on a way to try to have it automatically figure out what palette is in there to run that program. I don't want to give my idea away yet because it's too, I will if I can figure it out, but I'm going to keep that one under the wraps.
00:22:43
Speaker
And then we can have that, that to me, tell me, what's your reaction? What do you think? Well, since meeting Jay at the open house, I have been thinking a lot about his pallet system and how beautiful it actually is.
00:22:59
Speaker
And I've been wondering if the orange vices are what I want to continue using or if I want to start using his system or I really like his system in many ways. It's more expensive than just buying more orange vices. Which is crazy. But then I meet him and I talk to him and I see his dedication to the craft and I look at my products and my products are super expensive as well. So I get it. I understand.
00:23:23
Speaker
Yeah. The cost is an issue because I don't want to be a sucker. I don't want to have bought something that's overkill. But on the flip side, the cost relative to the productivity is a no brainer. Oh my gosh. And the hold down nature I think is going to lend itself way more to some sort of an automation.
00:23:43
Speaker
In the crudest sense, you could buy a robot and I think I could have a robot load those into a VF2. I don't want to do that. I want to do my own system. And I think that pallet nature hold that uses those under those ball clamps would work. We'll see. I like it though. OK. So the other thing I wanted to ask you about, and it's not that you can't smile when I ask you this, but it's a serious question, which is,
00:24:12
Speaker
I can't remember, the question came up before I started reading E-Myth a few weeks ago, and I wrote it down because I wanted to ask you, which is to force yourself to be an entrepreneur by this scenario. Forget about the implications of debt or equity, that's not the point here. But let me tell you today, I need to invest $500,000 in Grimsman knives. That is happening, whether you like it or not. What do you do with that money?
00:24:43
Speaker
That is a serious question. John, think big. Are you moving shops? Are you buying equipment? Are you hiring people? Serious. I think it would be all three, with moving shop being the third one. OK. People, training.
00:25:02
Speaker
Maybe more equipment, probably more equipment. What do you mean training? Training the people. It's going to take time. It's going to take some payroll in order to get these people up to snuff. And you've got to find the right people, too. Yeah. So labor is your bottleneck right now? I thought machine. Well, no, machines are. You can be running too much.
00:25:32
Speaker
I don't think you should be wearing machines. Exactly. But I, I cannot run a business and run two machines at the same time. And I'm coming to this, this conclusion, um, very really, uh, like a good friend of mine in the States just, uh, quit his recent move to a machine shop and he moved, you know, six States over to move to this machine shop. And, uh, he was all excited. And then he just told me yesterday, he's like, I'm leaving this, this place is not what I expected it to be.
00:26:02
Speaker
And I think I'm relatively vague enough that that passes. Is he a potential employee? That's what I'm thinking of. Would I hire this guy? Yes, he's in the States and to come work in Canada has its own implications. I don't even know if he'd consider it, but he's jokingly brought it up in the past. And I'm thinking to myself, just hypothetically,
00:26:23
Speaker
If I hired this guy to replace me as the machinist, how would he do? And the immediate answer in my head is he would at least increase my productivity by five times. Like the output of parts. Oh my God. Oh my gosh. Because I can't keep these two machines running and email every single customer and CAD CAM and run the business and pay for stuff and buy stuff and research stuff. Like I just.
00:26:46
Speaker
Nothing's getting done to the extent that it has to be. So someone like him would drastically increase the business. And then all of our little stuff, like our spinners, which I want to talk about for a few minutes, he could make those in droves. And that is labor that doesn't require Eric and Barry tying up knife making skill.
00:27:09
Speaker
You got to do it, John. Yeah, so a skilled machinist to replace me is high up on the list. And I think Eric needs another guy, too. Yep. So it's not machines, because we're not running them to use machines 12 hours a day.
00:27:25
Speaker
You know, some days we are sure and it feels great, but not every day. I think to the extent this conversation kind of iterates or evolves, I think what you'll realize is that that sounds like it's the right call. I think you'll realize two months in, he's going to want a second machine. Yeah. And at that point, that'll be okay. Right.
00:27:45
Speaker
But that decision happens more quickly than other normal financials. I guess that's what I'm saying is that I didn't anticipate. Ever heard the saying, growth each cash for breakfast? You frame that yet? Yeah, no, I'm thinking about it.
00:28:02
Speaker
Yeah, maybe that's a business of, you and I have been kind of talking about, do we, you know, even though there's a conversation between you and me, I think there's a little sense of community building around this podcast. We certainly heard it at the open house. It seemed like some people were equally or more excited about the podcast than our YouTube channels, which is great.
00:28:22
Speaker
So how do we build that sense of community around this podcast? And do we do a business sub-machining t-shirt that says, growth eats cash for breakfast, or artwork, or something for the shop wall? I don't know. That's a good idea. I like the t-shirt idea. But yeah, to answer your question, if somebody came up to me and said, I have half a million dollars to invest in your business, what are you going to spend it on?
00:28:51
Speaker
I would like to humbly say I don't need that much to take the next steps in my business. If I had that much, it could be a mistake. It would be great to have it in the bank and use it as flow so that we're not afraid to spend $2,000 to get this job done and we'll do it ourselves instead. I need to get out of that mentality. So you can buy lathe spindle liners? Exactly, yeah.
00:29:17
Speaker
So you want to know what's funny? I have the exact same answer. I will buy a machine next because it works with our current workflow. But that's 50 grand or whatever it is. Yeah, it's actually not that much money relative to the commitment of a payroll thing. But what do I want when I think about freeing myself of the limitations of money, which are very real. But nevertheless, I think you think better when you shed those limitations.
00:29:45
Speaker
I want a machinist, a real machinist. I want somebody who can take over that aspect of the shop. I want somebody who can help me bounce ideas. I want to bounce ideas off them and vice versa. They can help tool up this new machine. They can set up stuff. They can build complex fixtures.
00:30:04
Speaker
someone that's been around the block and remember with our job shop work some of what we do is sell solutions more so than parts so that's the stuff that is technical in mind where I have a it's hard for me you're right yesterday we got a inbound job from one of this ivy league universities that we do a lot of work for where they're sending us a either a four or five figure metrology device they use in a chemical lab they need us to modify it that's not something that you just
00:30:33
Speaker
throw in and deck off. Yeah, of course. It's got to be done by you, basically. Or the next guy. Right. So it's funny that we have that same answer. That's interesting. In some respects. Yeah. I keep thinking about that question. I will. I absolutely will. Maybe I haven't gotten that far in the E-Myth book.
00:30:54
Speaker
No, it wasn't from that. It was something, I can't remember why I thought about it, but think about it. It's a mind, you've always pushed me to think big, and I was like, what would I do? And here's the thing, it's sort of like, is that five, it's an arbitrary number, but is that wishful thinking like, oh, you know, this is la la land. No, John, $500,000 isn't that much money in the big picture of things, and here's the crazy thing, what if,
00:31:23
Speaker
you could create a measurable return on that money. Meaning, what if it were a two-year payback? Well, that's a 50% ROI. That's a mind-blowingly good return. That might actually work. Now, I don't think you should do it. I don't think you should borrow money. I don't think either one of us want to sell equity in our businesses like that. But nevertheless, you start to think, wait a minute here, am I shortchanging my own potential and capability by not thinking big? Right.
00:31:47
Speaker
Tell us about your spinners, which are awesome.
Closing Thoughts and Humor
00:31:51
Speaker
Yeah, I gave you one at the open house, and man, they have been selling like wildfire. Good for you. Funny enough, I've never seen one, quote, unquote, out in the wild, like just walking around in town, whatever, until last night. I took my kids to the ice cream store, and they're literally, there's a display. In case we have any minor disruption, folks, my wife just had to drop off our son because I got to run him over to the doctor for his arm. So please forgive me. Go ahead, John.
00:32:16
Speaker
Yeah, so on the counter at this ice cream shop, they had these $8 fidget spinners as a thing. And then every kid in the store and every kid outside is now flipping these things. And, you know, there's news articles now. They're getting banned from high schools because there's such a distraction. And it's like a huge thing. So while I feel like I'm very late to the game, because I've known about these for about a year,
00:32:38
Speaker
I also feel like it's an excellent time to be in the game because we sell a very high-end spinner for adults, basically. But man, they're selling like wildfire and I can't make them fast enough, which is a quality problem to have. I love it.
00:32:50
Speaker
Yeah, no good for you. And I know you're modest about it, but folks, if you enjoy this podcast and you enjoy what John's doing in his knife business and you can't afford a Norseman or a Rask, which they are beautiful, but I understand it. They're not inexpensive. Buy one of his tops. You're selling the tops as well? Yeah. The tops are in stock on the website and the spinners we're making as we can. Top spinners. Yeah. Awesome.
00:33:13
Speaker
Shall we call it? That sounds good. Do you have a great week? I will, I'm going to see you next week. I don't want to go two weeks again. Yeah, absolutely. Next Friday. Crush it, bud. All right. See it. Take care. But by the way, folks, John, I've been staring at his podcast at John Graham. So wearing a tuxedo shirt, a tuxedo t-shirt. Let me tell you, you have all been robbed of that because you're only listening on a podcast. Grab a screenshot or something.
00:33:38
Speaker
Hold on, actually, where is my phone? We have to move our phones away from the microphone. Strict orders from Julie. Let me take a photo of you on- Yeah, put it up on Instagram or something. This is hilarious. Okay, cross your butt. I'll see you. All right, take care. Bye. Bye.