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Australian Author, Publisher, and LGBTQ+ Advocate: David-Jack Fletcher
38 Plays9 days ago
This week, Wednes and David-Jack speak frankly and angrily about propaganda and contemporary politics. We also talk borderline disorder, trauma, horror movies of the 90s, and how we can receive love even when we don't feel worthy of it. Also representation, why "Hell is other people," and how we might eat differently if we could communicate with animals.
TW for suicidal ideation and planning.
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Transcript
Introduction and Themes
00:00:02
Speaker
You are listening to The Mentally Oddcast, where we talk with creatives about neurodivergence, trauma, addiction, and all the other things that impact and inform our art. Our goal is to show everyone that no matter what you're going through, you are not alone and you can make art about it.
Host Introduction and Support
00:00:24
Speaker
Music
00:00:34
Speaker
You are listening to the Mentally Oddcast. My name is Wednesday, late Friday, and you ought to find us on coffee because boy, do we need your support.
Guest Introduction: David Jack Fletcher
00:00:43
Speaker
um This week, I am talking to David Jack Fletcher, who is a gay Australian horror author, publisher, and editor who specializes in work that emphasizes the everydayness of LGBTQI plus individuals,
00:01:00
Speaker
He is the Aurelis-nominated author of The Count, of vampiric novel centered on evil that lurks within the Earth itself. Other titles include Raven's Creek, The Haunting of Harry Peck, and Hell is Other People, which is a story collection.
00:01:17
Speaker
And in 2026, we will see the release of Umbiblical, a gay paranormal mystery from Horrorsmith Publishing. David Jack is also the founder of Slashic Horror Press, a queer indie press focused on promoting underrepresented voices and stories in horror and dark fiction. Welcome.
00:01:39
Speaker
Thank you. I'm really excited to be here.
Fascination with Horror Begins
00:01:42
Speaker
Cool. um We typically start by asking guests to tell us about the first horror movie that they remember seeing. So I'm excited to hear yours. mine's The Exorcist.
00:01:58
Speaker
Nice. It scared the crap out of me. Oh, I'll bet. I will bet. im How old were you? Yeah, this is the funny part. I was 15. I i um i hadn't seen, literally had never seen a horror movie up until that point. And I stumbled upon it when my parents were actually watching it.
00:02:24
Speaker
um And I thought, oh, what's this? And they said, oh, we' we're not sure if this is like for you. And I was like, I'm old enough now. And, you know, because there's no sex in it, they were like, okay, that's fine.
00:02:37
Speaker
So... I mean, there their sort sort of is. I mean... Well, yeah, sort of.
00:02:49
Speaker
Yeah, and it scared the absolute bejesus out of me. um I had to sleep with the light on.
00:02:58
Speaker
Oh, sure. Now, were you religious growing up? Did it hit you in that way as well? No, no. Well, that's helpful. I think it was just because um I'd literally never encountered horror before.
00:03:12
Speaker
Now, how does that happen that you get to age 15 without ever seeing a horror movie? Well, wait, wait, actually, I have an idea. I have an idea. Is it because in Australia, everything that's alive there is trying to kill you?
00:03:27
Speaker
Well, you guys have like the deadliest snakes and the deadliest spiders. And you got those dingoes that be stealing people's babies. Sorry. I don't know. I feel like that probably should have prepared me. You know what I mean? I feel like just my daily life should have just prepared me for the exorcist, but no, it didn't.
00:03:53
Speaker
Huh. Yeah. So, I mean, we were, our entertainment was very censored in my house, not for religious purposes, just, I don't know what the purpose was, but we weren't allowed to watch.
00:04:13
Speaker
Well, we weren't allowed to watch The Simpsons. All right, now, you and I are both horror fans. So, can you... so I mean, I'm shocked that you did not see a horror movie until you were 15, but... I've got to know how this became your genre of choice. Yeah. um It was specifically because i hadn't seen it. And when I saw the Exorcist and and my reaction was so... um I sort of think my reaction was quite extreme. Like, I had to sleep with the light on.
00:04:48
Speaker
um I had that sort of, like... skin tingling feeling that something bad was going to happen to me. If, have you ever had that sort of feeling? Oh, totally. um Yep.
00:05:02
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And I thought, geez, like for me, it was a little bit um sad that I was, I felt sad that I'm 15 and this is the response I have had from a, from, you know, a fictional movie.
00:05:14
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um Then the next week, oddly enough, I come home from school and what are they watching? they're watching Scream. And I thought, well, I'm going to sit here and watch it um and see what happens. And the same thing. I just was absolutely terrified.
00:05:35
Speaker
I thought Ghostface was going to come through the window and stab me to death. um You know, and I just... it was just like It was a really serious moment in my life, to be honest with you, because um i didn't want to be like that.
00:05:51
Speaker
So i sort of started testing myself, um you know, started when I got a television in my room and a DVD player, I sort of just started watching a bit more horror um and just became like less scared, like, cause it's just a movie, you know? um And I found that it actually, like, obviously i I grew to love it. And I think my, the first horror movie that I thought was fantastic was The Faculty. And it today is still one of my favorites. Oh, wow. What an interesting choice. Yeah. I just, you know, like, cause I saw it when I was in high school um and I really sort of saw myself in Elijah Wood's character, Casey.
00:06:37
Speaker
um And I just thought, oh, aliens, sci-fi horror. And I just really liked it. um And the idea of like fighting for individuality versus, um you know, becoming one of the collective.
00:06:50
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. And yeah. And so it just, after that it was final destination. And then after that it was, um, something else, Texas chainsaw.
00:07:01
Speaker
Um, yeah. And then I just stopped being so scared of them and just started really enjoying them. ah Oh, I'm trying to think of the name of that
Misconceptions About Australia
00:07:11
Speaker
one movie about the Australian killer.
00:07:16
Speaker
Is it Wolf Creek? Oh, Wolf Creek. Yeah. With John Jarrett. Yeah. That was terrifying. Really? For many reasons. Yeah. I think it's really that kind of psychopathy of a ah person who he just enjoys hurting other people so much that he'll plan his whole day around it.
00:07:38
Speaker
his whole week you know he really puts forth the effort and that you know because when you think about internet trolls like there are people that they make that their day they go online and they try to upset people and hurt their feelings and you know somebody says oh look at my new dress and they're like oh you're ugly and fat like but but it's serial killer i mean they're really putting their money where they're hated that's very true I think um Wolf Creek's an interesting one for me because he's, it's really making comments about immigration, right? Because he, he mostly just goes for tourists.
00:08:20
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So, yeah and he's, he's got this whole thing about like um maintaining Australian identity and the very idea that he's a white man goes completely over his head, you know, like, and I just find that so interesting. Yes.
00:08:37
Speaker
Yeah. And he lives in the Outback, which is, you know, traditionally, um you know, Aboriginal land. Like, it's all Aboriginal land, but um like today, there's ah like a concentrated area of Aboriginal folks up there. And that just go completely goes past his head. and He's like, he's really fighting for this idea of white Australia, while simultaneously getting rid of the British people. Yeah.
00:09:06
Speaker
Well, when I hear that as an American, I think, wasn't Australia a dumping ground for European criminals? Exactly. That's how white people got there, right? Literally convict central. Because there's a joke, right? Yeah. Well, because when you go to Australia and they say, you know, because you're going to a different country and they say, well, you know, have you ever committed a crime? And the funniest response you can give is, oh, I'm sorry, is that still required?
00:09:35
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Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
00:09:40
Speaker
yeah um Well, here's the thing. like Obviously, I'm an American. So when a lot of Americans think of Australia, they think of very specific media things. Crocodile ju Dundee, the Crociseum, mostly crocodile-related things. The Common Brown, you know? Yeah. Your Steve Irwin. Outback Steakhouse. I mean, these these are not... like what Be be an ambassador for for just a minute.
00:10:07
Speaker
and tell Americans what they should know about Australia that they probably do not. First, the the first thing that I would say is, i um what is Outback Steakhouse?
00:10:20
Speaker
Oh, it's We don't have that here. What? What? What? we Where do you get your chopped blue cheese salad? That doesn't even make sense. So we've got, um we had this restaurant called Outback Jack's, right? But they were very few and far between. And the one up near where I am shut down probably about six months ago.
00:10:43
Speaker
um Like we don't, I went to an Outback Steakhouse in Germany and I was like, wow, this is what they think Australians are like. But so I actually think that's like an export, an Australian export that we don't actually have ourselves.
00:10:59
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um Okay. But I was, I was thinking about that question that you, you sent through and I was thinking, I don't know anything interesting about Australia.
00:11:13
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So I Googled a couple of like what, you know, interesting facts about Australia. And I have a couple, and then I've got something really interesting that I remembered.
00:11:26
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So a couple of things. So we have 21 of the world's 25 most venomous snakes. So we don't have all of them, but we have the majority
00:11:39
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I okay don't know where they all are. um In our area, you might occasionally see a brown snake, but that's mostly, they're mostly like in the country areas, like really rural areas. Now, I have been led to believe that they hang out in your toilet, so that's not the case.
00:11:58
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I mean, like they might if you live in the country, right? like ah um My sister and her husband actually went caravanning around Australia a while ago.
00:12:09
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And when they were going through, I think it was somewhere around Darwin up in the Northern Territory. They had a snake come through the the caravan's air conditioner.
00:12:21
Speaker
You know, the little air conditioning vents that are by the drivers, the the um the driver the steering wheel. Okay. Yep. And they had a snake just come straight through there from out of nowhere. Um, and they nearly crashed.
00:12:34
Speaker
So I don't even know what kind of snake it was, but I think they, I think the snake was attracted to the warmth of the air conditioning system. um Wow.
00:12:47
Speaker
Yeah, she was telling me about it and she's very lively when she sort of recounts those sorts of stories. So it was hilarious to hear about. Oh my But yeah, i mean I mean, once when I was a kid I saw a snake skin in the backyard, um but my experience with snakes has been very minimal.
00:13:09
Speaker
I did see a video on Facebook of a guy and it was from Australia. I'm from, I live near a place called Newcastle and there's lots of beaches there. And there was this old man, at least 80 years old. He's, and you can tell he is concentrating so hard on just not falling over while he walks. He's that sort of age. Okay. And this brown snake just comes straight for him because they will chase you. That's the thing about brown snakes, right? If they if you if they see you and they want you, they're going to get you.
00:13:42
Speaker
And it comes straight up to this old guy and he literally just kicks it in the head and keeps walking. Okay. Whoa. And it's like, and know they don't breed men like that over here anymore.
00:13:58
Speaker
I think if I saw a brown snake coming towards me, I would do the one thing you're not supposed to do. And that's run. Right. Cause if you run away from it, it's going to chase you. And he so he says something like, i can't remember what he says, but he kicks it in the face and he's like, Oh, fuck off. And it just keeps walking.
00:14:18
Speaker
ah and So, um so much respect for that guy. Yeah. My goodness. So another fact is the box jellyfish is responsible for more deaths per year than snakes, sharks, and saltwater crocodiles.
00:14:36
Speaker
so And when you think about it, it makes sense because we have such a big beach culture. know, Bondi, Kooji, we essentially live on the on the beach shores, right? So it makes sense that the the box jellyfish would get more of this. But we never hear about it. We only hear about the shark attacks.
00:14:59
Speaker
Well, my understanding with the jellyfish is that You don't necessarily like the sting itself is not like incredibly painful. So you don't realize the seriousness of it until you're becoming paralyzed. And if you're in the water, you know, you drown and then whatever lives there eats you.
00:15:21
Speaker
Yeah. um I mean, I got stung by a jellyfish once when I was a kid, but it was not a box jellyfish. It was something else, obviously, or I would probably be dead. But um whatever it was that stung me, it really hurt.
00:15:37
Speaker
But they've, the life, you know, the beach lifesavers there, they've got a spray that they put on and it sort of numbs the pain and that for you. But I mean, if you're out there surfing or, you know, something like that, you probably wouldn't be able to make it back to the shore. Right.
00:15:54
Speaker
Um, Yeah, so it makes sense. But it's just not as exciting as the old shark attack. We still have people, when they get attacked by a shark, we still have people go out like hunting the shark. like It's an episode of Jones or something. Oh, for fuck's sake. We see it on the news sometimes, and my husband and I just go, oh my god, you go into its house and it attacks you, and now you want to go and hunt it down.
00:16:19
Speaker
Like... ah How much colonizing do we have to do? For real, is it Exactly. Is it eating our blood? That is wild.
00:16:33
Speaker
And I'm surprised, I'm surprised really that it would happen there. just because i think of let's go kill that thing to be such an american you know pastime i i want to think other countries are better but you all have men in them straight white dude bro men so yeah that's yes we that's really that more than america i guess I mean, it does seem quite specific to the shark though, right? Because it's like, how dare they bite my son or my daughter or yeah whatever. and it's like, well, you know. Well, and few things terrify us quite like the concept of being eaten alive.
00:17:18
Speaker
I mean, that's why zombies have remained popular for decades because that's that's a deep-seated fear. Yeah, that's true. I don't know i have a I think I have a healthy respect for sharks. you know oh i well you know Jaws came out when I was like five and the trailer terrified me to the point of nightmares. So my coping tool was to learn as much about sharks as I possibly could, which luckily for me, we learn more about sharks every year. I still get to learn more about sharks because cameras just keep getting better and better. So we know more and more stuff.
00:17:54
Speaker
Yeah, it's pretty cool. Do you guys have the um the musical over there about the making of Jaws? A musical about the making of Jaws? No. Yeah, I saw it advertised on Facebook the other day. um i was sure. the other day was April Fool's, are you sure?
00:18:13
Speaker
Yeah, no, like, yeah, I am sure. um I was, I almost clicked on the learn more button and then I thought, nah, don't know.
00:18:25
Speaker
But if I see it again, I'll send it to you because it, it actually looks quite fun. Oh, please, please do. Okay, so the last thing that I think everyone needs to know about Australia, okay, and I actually researched this for my first um book, which was The Haunting of Harry Peck.
00:18:43
Speaker
Okay. It's called The Great Emu War. Have you heard about this? No.
Australian Emu War Humour
00:18:50
Speaker
Okay, so in 1932, in um in Western Australia, emus were destroying crops.
00:19:01
Speaker
And the farmers over there requested military intervention. And so the army showed up. They started trying to um get rid of the emus.
00:19:16
Speaker
um After about a month, they'd shot 10,000 rounds and they'd only, they'd killed an estimated between a few hundred to a thousand out of 20,000. Wow.
00:19:31
Speaker
Because Inus are so fast, they're so agile, and um it says they're described as a feathered tank because they can withstand high speed impact and evade gunfire.
00:19:45
Speaker
Well, their heads are so tiny. yeah but have It would be really hard to get off a headshot on one of those. that Yeah. That is insane. um And so the outcome was after about a month, the military withdrew because there was media criticism about the failure.
00:20:03
Speaker
So we lost. Wow. Man lost to emus in 1932 in the Great Emu War. and inspired Alfred Hitchcock to make one of his most popular films. Yeah, I guess he probably did.
00:20:19
Speaker
He probably, could have been like, oh, the Australians are so lame. I'm going to do the same thing with birds. like Well, but here's the thing though. I am very much of the belief that,
00:20:32
Speaker
We only think that we're smarter than animals because we speak different languages and we haven't made as much effort as we should to communicate properly with animals. And if if we did, I think more of us would be vegetarians. I'm not, full disclosure. um But i think I think that we would treat animals very differently if we were able to more effectively communicate with them. And that's probably why we don't do it.
00:21:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, there's that people always sort of say that animals operate on purely on instinct. And I just don't think that's the case at all.
00:21:14
Speaker
um well even just going out in nature in nature the lots of different kinds of animals will just run up to people and want to be petted for example and even ones that have not been habituated to humans you see videos all the time of like an otter or a fox or something yeah just walk to up to a person and be like hey pay attention to me yeah so but the other thing is like um we know that dolphins have a family structure Um, like whales mourn their dead.
00:21:45
Speaker
um kangaroos also have a, have a, like a discernible, um, family structure with parents and the, and the joeys and things. Yeah, elephants too. yeah Yeah, like so many of them, right? And I think insects are sort of the opposite where, you know, like the woman will kill the man while they're having sex and then she just like leaves the young to fend for themselves. But like a lot of ah lot of other animals have like, you know, the family structures that that we have and they have they have a respect for their dead and things. And I just think,
00:22:26
Speaker
that there's something more there than instinct absolutely and even within that like lions for example they have a pride but they're kind of like don't at me mormons because the women and the daughters are allowed to stay and when the boys reach puberty they're often just kind of left to their own devices. Like, get out of here and find your own thing. it's like, get a job.
00:22:53
Speaker
Well, because the the dads want to scoop up all the women for themselves and the sons, you know, you got some stripping young kid just turned 18 or whatever. they don't They don't want the competition.
00:23:07
Speaker
Yeah. Because in Lion Land, that's how male lions go out. they They don't die of old age peacefully on a hill surrounded by their loved ones. They get killed by another lion that wants their women.
00:23:19
Speaker
Yeah, that's kind of sad. Well, that's patriarchy for you. That's patriarchy for you. it It must be really great to not live in America now.
Views on America and Healthcare
00:23:34
Speaker
How's that going for you?
00:23:36
Speaker
I mean, what what do you see when you look at us? Oh, I mean, i don't know how honest I can be. Extremely. Well, okay. So what I will say is I know a lot of Americans through my writing.
00:23:50
Speaker
One of my best friends in the entire world is American. Most of the authors I publish with Slashic are American. um i know so many absolutely wonderful, beautiful American people.
00:24:03
Speaker
So... That's kind of what i I want to see more broadly. But when you see the news and, you know, um what the ICE agents are doing and what the politicians are doing and all this rhetoric, you know, the anti-trans stuff that's going on really breaks my heart. But I i know that it's not...
00:24:28
Speaker
everyone it's just it's the loudest if that makes any sense oh it's it's not not only is it not everyone it's not most of us oh Yeah, well, that's the sense I get because I, like, you know, I talk to to my friends over there all the time and, um you know, um so and they're saying, I know someone who knows someone that is a MAGA person or whatever. But I just, yeah, I get the sense that it really is just the loudest voices that are causing all this problem or all these problems. And the loudest voice of all is the president who's the most hateful
00:25:08
Speaker
ugly person I've ever come across, I think. Yeah, it's it's hard to conceptualize the the level of just hatefulness. Like, he has disdain for everything that does not personally enrich or entertain him.
00:25:22
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. um but like But here's the thing. and I don't know if if ah people know this outside of of the U.S. s um I think that in 2016, he actually did get, I don't know that he won the popular vote, but he did win the electoral vote.
00:25:43
Speaker
and And that's a terrible shame. Um, we, about half of eligible voters here don't vote, which I think is even more appalling than who some of them voted for. Um, and, and some of it is about disenfranchisement. A lot of people are being disenfranchised, you know, even to the point like their boss won't let them off work to vote. They don't have, uh,
00:26:06
Speaker
transportation and you can't mail and vote everywhere here. There are a lot of things that keep people from voting conveniently because it is well established that when more people vote, Republicans lose because their policies don't really do anything for the average person.
00:26:24
Speaker
in 2020, so in twenty twenty The election was rigged by Trump's people, but it didn't take because they were rigging the voting machines. And because of COVID, there were way, way, way more mail-in ballots than they realized there were going to be. So that's why they were yelling about, oh, it's a stolen election because we, we you know, the good guys fucked up there. their attempt to steal the election. Now, the reason that that's as super, super important is that when Trump was in office, that's when the Epstein stuff came to light.
00:27:03
Speaker
And those records were sealed until 2025 because he believed by then he will would have served two terms and it wouldn't matter anymore. He could just say, haha, fuck you. So what if I did it?
00:27:15
Speaker
yeah um But then the records were unsealed. And, you know, I'm that this election, the last one was not legit either. That's a thing that Elon Musk fixed. And that's why he hired a bunch of teenagers to go hog wild on government records so they can destroy all the evidence of that. Elon, if you're listening, my name is Wednesday, leave Friday. Don't forget. And I'm right here in Michigan. Come at me, bro. um So.
00:27:44
Speaker
So that's why. and the thing is that it's taking so long for them to just, I mean, the the dances that these people are doing to protect some of the worst people who have done the most horrific things. Because the thing about sex crimes, and I don't mean to go on a whole huge rant about this, but a sex crime is the most selfish, unnecessary crime there is.
00:28:08
Speaker
Because even things like theft and murder and destruction of property, sometimes there are very good reasons to do those things. There's never a good reason to commit a sex crime ever.
00:28:20
Speaker
It's just someone being entitled and awful. Yeah. Yeah. And it's about power as well. And it's just, yeah, I have some personal wells experience with, with that as well. And it's just absolutely, i'm sorry it's stay is something that stays with you forever.
00:28:41
Speaker
Yes. um You know, ah but I think with with Trump, even like, you know, you said before. um Yeah, he was waiting for the second term to be over just to say, you know, screw you. I did it. And who cares? I actually think he could probably say that today and he would still have the support of the people who currently support him.
00:29:06
Speaker
You know, like that's, I think that's the level of blindness that they have for this guy. Blind love and he can do no wrong. Yeah, I think that's true. I also think that it turns out a lot of people are much more comfortable with, you know, men taking advantage of children and and young people that way.
00:29:32
Speaker
the you know i mean we still hear people blame the victim like oh she seduced him you know what you can't sit in a room with a child who's trying to seduce you without responding back like if that's not if you're not capable of that yeah get out of sight like if get out if a kid is trying to do that to you and you feel seduced that's a problem too like you know what i mean exactly like they're giving you like you know these bedroom eyes and you're like oh gosh you know like that's fucked up yes the proper response is to find out what that girl is going through that she thinks that's an appropriate way to behave yeah if indeed that's what's happening because there's also the whole like you know give uncle so-and-so a hug and then uncle so-and-so says oh well she was all over me
00:30:26
Speaker
ah yeah yeah yeah so um but no it's going good living in australia yeah um better stakes than trump's right yeah look i mean our prime minister over here anthony albanese don't think he's a bad guy um like as a human being but he's not a good leader um And I said that even even you know when he was when he was running for office.
00:30:59
Speaker
And I just kept saying, like, he's got no spine and he will cower to people like Trump. And that's what's really happened. you know I don't think he's making the best... I don't think his decisions are in the best interest of Australia at the moment. They're in the best interest of the US.
00:31:19
Speaker
Um, there's probably a bigger picture I'm not seeing, but, um, yeah, but I mean, day-to-day lives, like our day-to-day lives are pretty good.
00:31:30
Speaker
I would say like we've, you know, my husband's, we had, we had to take my husband to hospital yesterday. Right. And, um, he's, we're not going to get a charge for that. Like that's totally free. he's He's getting moved to the cardiology ward this morning and we're they're running tests and they're doing blood samples and giving him medication and everything. we're not going to get a bill for any of that.
00:31:55
Speaker
Um, and I've, some of my friends in the U S where I know when they've had to go to hospital, it's like $6,000 or something. And so, Oh dude, I was in the hospital in 2022. I was there for 17 days and there was lots and lots of testing. They didn't know what was wrong with me, but 17 days. Right. So not even a month, you know, the first bill that I got was $149,000. And forty nine thousand dollars hell I mean, you could buy a house in our area for that. We just left.
00:32:24
Speaker
um and We had insurance, but the insurance, the in America, your insurance usually will turn you down the first time, no matter what it is. I have UHC. And yeah, they'll they'll just say no, and then you have to call them back and fight when you just got out of the hospital. I mean, you know that's disgusting, isn't it?
00:32:45
Speaker
It is. It is. Well, and not only that, but like my husband and i do not have children, but we have to pay insurance for an entire family plan. They just decided one year that husband and wife wasn't paying enough. So we, we pay to insure children that don't even exist and they still don't want to cover me. yeah So it's quite golly. heard something about that just the other day, actually.
00:33:10
Speaker
um But there was something in Australia as well, that it was a ah childless couple um and they could only get whatever insurance it was. They had to pay for a family plan.
00:33:26
Speaker
um And they don't have kids either. So I was asking them what that was about and they just said, well, that's the way that the system has been set up. Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:37
Speaker
That makes absolutely no sense to me. And obviously we don't have kids either. um So now I'm kind of wondering what our insurance covers. At least cover my cat, you know, like I don't have a cat now, but in general, if I'm paying to insure an entire child, i should be able to take my animals to get to the vet. If that's, if that's really what we're doing.
00:33:59
Speaker
I mean, i don't see an issue with that. We've got two dogs and you know, I want them to have the best healthcare care possible. ah Well, right, because they're family. Ask any pet owner who isn't Christy Gnome, and they will probably tell you their pets are like family.
00:34:14
Speaker
Yeah. But, um... Sorry, you know, you go. Oh, I was going to go to the next thing. So if you're not finished yet, please- No, no, go by all means.
00:34:25
Speaker
Well, I definitely want to get into your work. Now you have a collection that's called
Literary Works and Philosophical Influences
00:34:30
Speaker
Hell is Other People. And I totally perked up when I heard that because when I was an undergrad, I directed No Exit as my senior directing project. yeah So are you are you a fan of Sartre's ethos like in general?
00:34:44
Speaker
Um, I certainly believe that hell is other people. I mean, the timeline that we're in at the moment certainly proves that, doesn't it? It bears it up Sure. Sure.
00:34:58
Speaker
You know, the I am because, and I should give a shout out to the publisher as well. So i always find because I'm a publisher that people assume that I publish all the work that I put out. That's not true. So the publisher for Hell Is Other People was Leith Press. They're an American press. They've been, they're the longest running queer press in the world, I believe. And they do a mix of like horror and weird.
00:35:28
Speaker
stuff so um shout out to them for believing in my work um but yeah so with sata um I kind of like his ideas, you know, like his work being in nothingness and the stuff he does around existentialism.
00:35:44
Speaker
I can get behind what he says a lot of the time. um And yeah, I do. I think based on like my own um life experiences, the majority of my um negative experiences have been based on my interactions with other people.
00:36:08
Speaker
So yes, i fully believe hell is other people.
00:36:14
Speaker
Okay. I want to give everyone just a second with that. Well, you know, I mean, there are nice people, obviously, like, you know, um I just find them these days fewer and further between.
00:36:31
Speaker
um Whether I'm just a skeptic or a cynic, I don't know. But um that's been my experience. Well, where I am in the world, it's it's interesting because, well, you know how at Christmas time, some people are in a way better mood because they just get the Christmas spirit and it makes them happy? yeah And then other people are much more likely to punch you in the face if you're in their way because, goddammit, they've got things to do. It's Christmas. Have you heard? The whole family's coming. so
00:37:03
Speaker
So the the disconnect there, I think, is sort of applying to the whole country. And it started with COVID with some people, the people that want to get in your face and say, I would do anything. I would fight anyone for the country. Like, you wouldn't, though. We asked you to keep a cloth over your face so our grandmothers wouldn't die. And you had a three-year tantrum about it. Yeah. so But...
00:37:27
Speaker
In America, they're trying very hard to keep everybody angry and frightened and unable to afford anything because that's the easiest way to turn people against each other.
00:37:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And that's that's not new news or anything, but the Republicans are so good at it, you know, because there's this thing called the Southern Strategy.
00:37:51
Speaker
And it it started, it's it's old news, but the Southern strategy is when conservatives said, well, our policies don't do anything to help anyone that's poor.
00:38:02
Speaker
So we need to think of a way to keep the poor on our side. And what they told poor whites in the American South was no matter how little you have or how little you've done, you will always be better than a racial minority, whether that's black people, brown people, Jews, Like that's what the Southern strategy is.
00:38:24
Speaker
and goddamn, they fell for it. So now that strategy has been expanded to include anyone remotely liberal, progressive, you know any gay person, anyone gender gender non-conforming now. you know it's and And because Trump is at the head of it, there's also this sense of what things look like is what they are.
00:38:47
Speaker
So if two conventionally attractive people are together, then that must mean they have a happy marriage. you know If a guy looks like a general from TV, then he must be going to be a great guy to lead the military. like yeah It's so juvenile. like The whole mindset is one of... like You know, that they all act like bullied teenagers who never confronted their abusive dads. And I'm sure that's the case for most of them. I have theories about Don Jr., but I'm not going to go with you right now. But yeah, like like it's a whole thing over here.
00:39:23
Speaker
So the thing about hell being other people, and if you read No Exit... It was orchestrated that way. Hell did not pick those particular three people to be in a room together at random. That was so orchestrated yeah to be exactly like, you're going to want respect for that person. You're never going to get it. This other person annoys you. They're going to bother you all the time.
00:39:48
Speaker
And like that's the whole premise. yeah So if you convince people that it's actually trans people that are out there committing sex crimes, it's much easier for all the rich, white, whatever people to get away with their own sex crimes. Yeah, and it's crazy how easily people will believe that narrative as well.
00:40:09
Speaker
Like if you hear it on the six o'clock news, oh, trans people are reportedly, you know, sex criminals now. The amount of people who will just take that on board and go, yep, I knew it. You know, like it's just, it's insane to me that there's there's a complete lack of critical thinking and analysis going on. People don't challenge or question what they're being told. They just go with it.
00:40:33
Speaker
because that's what Christianity teaches people. people as it does It teaches people as children, don't question it at questioning it as a sin. And if you sin, there's a fiery pit of hell waiting for you. And I mean, yeah, that's that's what trains people up to think that and to accept things that readily.
00:40:56
Speaker
And that's why they fight so hard to to keep people from leaving the church. And boy, they're losing. They are failing. But there's still plenty of people, you know.
00:41:08
Speaker
ah And I don't even mean to to dump on Christians. My husband is a practicing Christian. But yeah, I was just going to say, like church attendance might be down, but I think a lot of people still are religious, like are Christian or whatever. i have Christian friends as well. They're beautiful people. um And it's just important to note that they're not religious.
00:41:37
Speaker
like blindly brainwashed i think a lot of people can be regardless of their religion or whether they don't even have a religion um yep but you know i think there are a lot of people who maybe have stepped away from the church because they are starting to think a bit more critically about things um but it doesn't mean that they don't still believe you know Well, I mean, Jesus was a pretty cool guy. And the stuff that we associate with him, being kind, sharing your food, ah letting people sleep over if they aren't sleeping outside. i mean, yeah these are not, these are all like rules to live by.
00:42:19
Speaker
And I'll tell you something that in America right now, the revolutionaries, the people who are trying to fight back in a small interpersonal way, that's what they're doing.
00:42:32
Speaker
They are feeding people. They are making sure people are housed. They are ah recording ICE, following them around, recording what they do, you know, gathering evidence. They're they're trying to go to these detention centers where the, to I hate to even put these words out, where the children are. um But The thing is that kindness, like especially in Minnesota, they've had all those issues with ICE that were widely publicized. And they do a thing, the ICE agents there will do a thing called a starlight tour where they pick someone up and then if they find that they can't arrest them because their papers are like too in order and they can't take them away, they'll take their shoes and coat and just leave them somewhere.
00:43:17
Speaker
What? Yeah. And so people in the the different cities where this was happening would just make it their business to drive around the parks and make sure that there's nobody out there wandering trying to get home. Oh, ICE is fucking evil. They're trying to put people into rioting. They want people to attack them and people are not rising to the jail. You know, they're they're not attacking them. They're standing there with their cameras saying, get the hell away from me.
00:43:43
Speaker
Or they're chanting or they're, you know... And it's... That peaceful protest, yeah. And it's it's insane how blatant the ICE people... Like, they'll walk up to a memorial for someone that they killed, and they'll kick it over, and then look at the crowd with their arms out, daring them to do something.
00:44:03
Speaker
And the crowd is just like... we see through you, you fucking fascist. We're not going to take the bait. And they don't. That's insane. Oh yeah, it's vile. But people don't, like, they don't see the connection between what's happening there and what happened in World War II.
00:44:20
Speaker
Like... Well, plenty of people do, but plenty of people don't. You know what I mean? ah Yeah, yeah, yeah. and And as you were saying earlier, it is very much the loudest people. We also have a problem on our social media...
00:44:34
Speaker
because Zuckerberg and Musk are flooding their socials with bots so when you see posts about like oh isn't it terrible how that woman died after she tried to run over an ICE agent when everybody knows that's not what fucking happened but then there'll be thousands of fake comments yeah you know agreeing like oh yeah we agree those fascists are great or you know whatever the hell they're saying but yeah and it's made worse by meta removing the fact checking policies as well so anyone can post whatever the hell they want yep
00:45:06
Speaker
Yep. Well, not boobs, but anything else. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah. I don't really know what to say to that, to be honest with you. Right? That came right out of the left field to me. I was like, oh. Sorry, I think once an episode, I just have to.
00:45:27
Speaker
Is there a group that's like, keep boobs off Facebook? Yeah.
00:45:33
Speaker
Well, that's that's part of the thing because of female nipples are not allowed on Facebook. So one of the things that people will do is Photoshop male nipples over the female nipples and be like, what?
00:45:45
Speaker
So it's a whole thing. How do people not have better things to do with their time? ah Well, ah that's a good question. I think, I mean, it costs $125 my husband and i to go to a movie between cabs and movie tickets and maybe getting a snack so so yeah it's much cheaper to stay at home and look at the internet and see what people are up to but I guess yeah that I mean that that is a valid critique that some of us myself included spend an appalling amount of time on the internet sometimes like I wonder what people would do if the internet just went down you know
00:46:29
Speaker
Like I remember the nineties and you would remember you were, you're like a seventies, eighties kid, aren't you? Yes. Yeah. So I'm an 90s I remember pre-internet and like it came in when I was, you know, what, 13 or something like that. But I, you know, the majority of the childhood was just go outside, play, ride your bike, come home when the streetlights are on. Here's $2 and it will feed the four kids with fish and chips and drinks. Like um when you get home, start reading a book, maybe watch some TV, play a board game.
00:47:08
Speaker
And now it's just like Doomscroll or nothing, really. That's the way it's it's starting to look to me. It can be.
00:47:19
Speaker
like that's That's certainly a ah way that it can break down. um I also grew up, obviously, without the internet. My alma mater, my college alma mater, got the internet the summer after I graduated. So I made it all the way through and undergrad with no internet.
00:47:36
Speaker
In a time where if you were waiting for a phone call, it meant you had to stay home. Yeah. And wait for the phone call. Yeah. Which, you know, made relationships a little more difficult.
00:47:47
Speaker
Yeah. Kids these days actually have no idea of the anticipation of waiting for a phone call. Right. And if you miss it.
00:47:57
Speaker
We used to take the dining, like one of the dining room chairs and and put it like at the, at the phone that was the, you know, the landline that was attached to the wall. And because someone at school had said, I'm going to call you tonight. And so you would just sit there, you would eat your dinner by the phone and everyone's like, have they called yet? Are they, are you sure they're going to call? It's like, they said they were going to. Yeah.
00:48:21
Speaker
And if they don't, I will write them such an origami note, boy. um we we were large with the origami notes. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so the internet has a lot to answer for, I think.
00:48:37
Speaker
Well, but, I mean, it does an awful lot of good, too. Like, if you've got a bad family where you don't want to go home and deal with those people, the escapism that is available to you via the internet, the information that people just did not have access to is there. yeah that's that's very true.
00:48:54
Speaker
You know? and and you can meet, for better for worse, you can meet like-minded people all over the world, you know? Yeah. If you are... lonely and don't know that there are people that like what you're into, that can be life-saving. At the same time, if you're a serial killer looking for ways to up your game, the internet can also help you with that. so you know, you gotta take the good with the bad.
00:49:19
Speaker
Well, I was thinking, I was, um so I teach at university, right? And this week's topic was surveillance capitalism. And I just think it's so interesting to think about because while we do have all this access to the information, when we're accessing it, the amount of data that we're unintentionally leaving behind, the data that's scraped, that goes to these places, like,
00:49:42
Speaker
Apple, Meta, Google, Alphabet, whatever, um gives them so much more information about us to help them um in a way sort of like control what we do online and what we do offline. So it's it's kind of a, I don't know, to me it's quite quite problematic.
00:50:04
Speaker
Oh, it it definitely is. I'll tell you, recently streamed shows in the background while I'm like crafting or cleaning or whatever, and recently i started re-watching The Sopranos.
00:50:16
Speaker
Ooh. And suddenly, like, I didn't post about it. I didn't talk it up and, you know, whatever, let everybody know I was doing it. But suddenly my algorithm had a whole bunch of Sopranos memes that I had not seen in years. Yeah. And just random, like, oh look, it's, you know, they want me to follow Steve Sharippa and they want me to follow Michael Imperioli, which i already was. But yeah, I mean...
00:50:42
Speaker
they know what we're doing. Like, they know that if I go to Amazon and look at dog collars, that suddenly my whole Facebook feed is things for dogs. I don't even have a dog yet. I'm just looking for one.
00:50:55
Speaker
Yeah, and like, so you know, you're not just a furry. Like... How indeed? Like, you know, they have many uses. There's a lot of things to do with a collar. That's true. Exactly.
00:51:13
Speaker
Okay, so i am aware that you live with borderline personality disorder. And this is really outside my own life experience. I'm bipolar and I got a host of other things going on. But I'm aware, my understanding is that it's the kind of thing that can present as emotional overdrive, maybe a lack of impulse control, that's something you would have to work on. Volatility, is that accurate to your experience?
00:51:40
Speaker
Yeah, yes. Yes, it is. um So, yeah, particularly the emotional part for me.
00:51:51
Speaker
i mean, obviously BPD um expresses differently for different people. So, um like, my version of it or the way that that it really presents to me has often been...
00:52:08
Speaker
like emotional volatility. um Cause mine, mine stems from, you know, a fear of abandonment, childhood abuse, the deep seat, the deep rooted um belief that I'm like unworthy. i can't do anything right. So anytime anything small happens that reaffirms,
00:52:34
Speaker
those sorts of ideas, um I can just suffer quite a lot emotionally. normal like Historically, it has presented as um pretty much just yelling.
00:52:50
Speaker
like i I have been known to be a yeller. um I'm not you know, proud of it or anything. It's just, that was my coping mechanism.
00:53:03
Speaker
um And it was almost like a, like, I'm going to yell at you so you'll stay. But in yelling at someone, it just pushes them away. if that makes any sense.
00:53:15
Speaker
Yeah. This is all very relatable. Well, I know that BPD and bipolar have a lot of crossovers with things like that. Um, we also have BPD has splits. I think you might call it something different, um, for bipolar, but, um, so a split for me is where you really start to see things in extreme black and whites.
00:53:43
Speaker
So if I have an argument with someone, they will literally be to me the worst thing in the world. And, you know, I'll say they're toxic, they're horrible, they've never been a good friend, they've always betrayed me, they never listen, you know, all sorts of things.
00:53:58
Speaker
But then when I've calmed down from that, they might revert back to the other end of the spectrum of, oh my gosh, they're so amazing, aren't they so funny? um they're always there for me they they're such a good listener like and oh there's ah like there's no in between a lot of like when those splits are happening okay yeah it's really it's so it just extremes on either side Yeah. Yeah. And when people try and point out, well, like if I'm sitting there saying, oh, such and such is a horrible person. They've always been nasty.
00:54:34
Speaker
You know, the, you know, they're always saying things about me behind my back. If anyone tries to to say to me, well, you don't actually know that any of that's true. um, then that person will become the worst in the world. And it kind of just, um, spirals quite a lot. Um, and those splits really tend to happen from like prompting what, what, what I've come to learn is known as a prompting event, um, or like a trigger.
00:55:04
Speaker
Um, and it's really hard to sort of come down from that. Um, so yeah it's it's emotional distress um a low threshold for distress tolerance okay yeah so that actually sounds really familiar to like what i would go through during a manic e episode like everything is either the best it's ever been or we're all gonna die
00:55:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And we call it like, so I have states of euphoria, which I guess is like the, the happy sort of mania.
00:55:47
Speaker
Yep. But it's not, it's literally just everything. So like, I'll hear a song. Oh, this is the best song. oh my God. I love this song so much.
00:55:58
Speaker
Even if it's, you know, a song that I actually don't on any other day, I actually would just kind of... um If I get stopped at a traffic light, you know, I get stopped at a red light.
00:56:12
Speaker
Oh, that's great. it gives me It gives me just that couple of seconds or two minutes that I need to just, you know... taking my surroundings and oh gosh look at the sky is so beautiful today and like it's it's that sort of thing and when you see someone at work it's not just oh hey how you going it's oh my god hi how was your weekend what's going on with you oh you look so good today isn't everything amazing and then you can see on their face they're just like tone it back a bit mate and um i can see it and i recognize it
00:56:49
Speaker
but I can't control it. I can't. And, um, Well, no, guys, I mean, things like that, your brain gets rewired by trauma and it impacts the way that everything is seen, you know, because a lot of it's chemical things like oxytocin and serotonin and all those things. But but yeah, I mean, once you've been through trauma and and I think you explained that really clearly, because it's things that reinforce what you're afraid of when those happen in life, it just becomes this oh shit.
00:57:21
Speaker
The people that were dicks to me were right all along. Well, great. Now what do we do? Yeah. so yeah And I often yeah found myself sort of thinking that like, oh, you such and such was right.
00:57:34
Speaker
Like they were, they were right all along. um And Yeah. So when I, I have this thing, I'm not, i'm not sure if this happens to you, but I'll be interested to hear about it is some when, when I'm on either side of the, like, so you have the euphoria and then the, the downside, like you don't just come down and, and equalize or balance.
00:58:00
Speaker
I go all the way down into like a deep depression. um And so either side, whatever side of that I'm on, it's almost like I'm outside my body and I'm watching myself.
00:58:12
Speaker
um And it'll be like, you know, like if I'm talking to a colleague and I'm just like super duper into everything about them and it's really intense and I i can think to myself, you got to stop talking, you got to stop talking, like, you know, and I'm almost like watching myself from the outside as just this completely separate being who's doing things that I'm not able to have any sort of control over.
00:58:43
Speaker
um i think when it's on the depressive side, when I'm in the really low lows, that that's when it becomes like a real problem because of intrusive thoughts and things.
00:58:56
Speaker
ah But yeah, I mean, does anything like... I'm interested in what other people's experiences are too, because for the longest time, I thought the way I was, was was typical.
00:59:10
Speaker
Like I thought everyone had moments like that and I'm learning that that's actually not true. Yeah, i don't I don't really get a sense of being outside myself looking in.
00:59:23
Speaker
um My cycles it in terms like I'm bipolar one, so but i'm I'm medicated. I'm on a mood stabilizer that I'm having really good luck with. Because for me, being depressed means I can't do anything and I hate myself and I don't want to face anyone.
00:59:42
Speaker
But the thing is, when I'm manic... I'm either angry at everyone and they therefore also not able to function well, or if I'm feeling the good kind of mania, I have an idea for a project and it's only going to cost a little bit of money. Let me buy a few things for it.
01:00:00
Speaker
And then, yeah you know, it's this whole, and it's, it's a vicious cycle because then when it doesn't work out or I, I lose interest in it or whatever,
01:00:11
Speaker
then I'm disappointed with myself all over again. I've probably told people that I then have to face that are like, oh, you're not doing that thing you just spent all that money on? Like, shut up! You don't have a right to touch me! but Yeah, you don't know my life. Leave me alone. Yeah.
01:00:28
Speaker
Well, and i you know I've gotten better at that over the years, but I still am very into like doing new projects and getting things. and And the thing is, my husband encourages me in my projects, not because he wants to support my mental illness, but because he legitimately believes in me. And his take on it is...
01:00:49
Speaker
well, you fail because you try so many things. That's, you know, if you didn't do anything, you would never feel like a failure because you never tried anything. Like, what? Of course I'd feel like a failure if I never tried.
01:01:02
Speaker
oh Oh. So. Yeah. Yeah. i totally agree. So, I mean, and it's... You know, how do you how do you know? How do you know if if your failed projects are enriching you as a person or if they're just fucking up your family finances? You don't you don't always know.
01:01:21
Speaker
Yeah. And when you have mental illness in your background, you kind of have to ask people that are saner than you to look at these things objectively because objectivity is hard when your when your brain doesn't work right and it's trying to trick you.
01:01:38
Speaker
Yeah, that's one of the things that i I tended to struggle with a lot of the time because like my version of events would sometimes not be the way multiple other people remembered things, right?
01:01:54
Speaker
And I'm going like, is everyone trying to gaslight me or am I crazy? And it kind of got to the point where I i've really stopped trusting myself. And I would always defer to Paul, who's, that's my husband. um Hi, Paul. And I would sort of defer to him and go like like, can you tell me, like, honestly, am i am I being the asshole here? Like, am I wrong? am Because, like, my perspective is X, Y, and zd Can you tell me, like, is that the way you remember it?
01:02:27
Speaker
And the fact that I had to keep deferring, like, my perspective to him, um really impacted like or or even to other people like my sister or whoever um really impacted like the way that I was able to engage like with things in general sure so i was just like I don't know if what I'm seeing is, is not, not, not that what I'm seeing is real, but I don't know if I can trust what I'm seeing entirely.
01:03:01
Speaker
Like, is the person smiling at me? Is that smile a friendly smile or are they, um, is it a smirk? And they're kind of looking at me like I'm a dickhead, like what's going on in their eyes. I can't read their eyes properly now. And, you know, I really started, it was a bit of a mind fuck to be honest.
01:03:20
Speaker
Sure, sure. And it puts you in a vulnerable position because what if those people aren't trustworthy? What if you have partner who's slowly turning abusive over the years and isn't, is gonna just start gaslighting you? What if your siblings have resentment they never told you about and they might just wanna fuck with you a little. Like, but that's the thing. Like, if have- Thanks for putting that in my head. Oh my God. Well, but that's just it. Like you have a support structure not not everybody has ah a trusted support structure in place like i have i have friends that i've met in therapy groups and you know other things where their partners were absolutely monstrous and they would scream like we take your fucking medications you crazy ass and just stuff that is just appalling and is the last thing you need when you're trying to keep your own shit straight. So yeah from the sound of it, everyone in your life is is rooting for you. i don't i don't
01:04:17
Speaker
i have no outside knowledge that would suggest that's ah that anyone's going to gaslight you. mean I have been pretty lucky. I've got to say, like... Um, you know, at the, at the height of my depression, i would have said otherwise, and that's part of BPD, right? I would have said, no one cares. um no one believes in me. no one, you know, I could die tomorrow and and no one would, would miss me, you know, and I have actually said that before.
01:04:46
Speaker
and um, yeah. But now I'm more stabilized um and I'm able, well, I feel that I'm able to see things a bit more objectively. um Yeah, I think i've I've been one of the lucky ones in terms of support structures.
01:05:06
Speaker
When were you diagnosed? Okay, so this is an interesting question. I don't know. ah okay So one of the things that I've learned about myself, and this is a result of therapy, is um
01:05:24
Speaker
I wish you could see me right now because I'm kind of like, I'm doing like a, like my hands are like forming like a ball. So like my, um I had a couple of psychiatrists tell me when I had my breakdown that I got really good at compartmentalizing because of all the, all the different abuse that I was going through.
01:05:44
Speaker
So I got really good at compartmentalizing in order to function. And they all said something or something along the lines of, um you can only do that for so long before the dam breaks.
01:05:56
Speaker
And so what happened to me was the dam broke and all of the stuff I'd compartmentalised is like washing through everything else. So for me, the past is now and the present is in the past, if that makes any kind of weird sense. i have Oh, totally, totally.
01:06:17
Speaker
I have no real ability to tell you when something happened. um One of my, my psychologist actually asked me once when I graduated high school and I went, Oh, 2007.
01:06:32
Speaker
And he's like, well, how old are you? And I was like 30, I'm 37. And he's like, work out well, that doesn't make sense. Cause that means you would have graduated high school when you were 20. And I'm like, Oh, So um i time periods for me are really tricky.
01:06:48
Speaker
So the best way I can answer that question is that I believe i was diagnosed three years ago. Okay.
01:07:01
Speaker
But that also doesn't make sense in my head. but it may make sense in terms of a calendar date. I'm not confident in my answer though.
01:07:13
Speaker
Well, I mean, what we really are going for with that question is whether or not it was a childhood diagnosis, teenage or adult. So so it sounds like it it was before. Okay.
01:07:24
Speaker
can Can I ask like what prompted you to go? I mean, it sounds like when you say a breakdown, does that mean that you were hospitalized? I eventually was hospitalized, yes. um So what led me to get a diagnosis was the depression.
01:07:44
Speaker
um The antidepressants, I've tried a bunch and they weren't really doing anything. So in order for me to get onto the different class of medicines, I had to go and see a psychiatrist and the psychiatrist diagnosed me with borderline and his his report came back to say, borderline with characteristics of high functioning autism and ADHD.
01:08:17
Speaker
But the characteristics, we're still not sure if that's learned behavior, as in, like, both my parents are fucked up. And they taught me to be, you know, to have these characteristics.
01:08:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, so so I don't know. So that led me to the original diagnosis. Then I think it was about a year or 18 months later that I was actually able to get um treatment for it.
01:08:53
Speaker
And the treatment ah was only, i was only able to get treatment for it because I had a suicide attempt.
01:09:06
Speaker
That was it. Wow. So I'm shocked to hear that because you're in a place with universal health care. Yeah, so it's universal, but it's not necessarily accessible.
01:09:17
Speaker
um You know, there's obviously a strain on different services, and I could not get in to see a psychologist with who specializes in...
01:09:30
Speaker
um in borderline because i was i could go and see a psychologist but if they're not familiar with the condition i just thought what is the point like talk therapy itself isn't the be all end all it needs to be focused towards like what I have. Um, I couldn't get in to see anyone.
01:09:55
Speaker
Um, and during that time I spiraled so hard because I started to think like the healthcare professionals don't care about it. um And then i in my head, I was like, I'm untreatable.
01:10:11
Speaker
I know that's obviously, that's not logical, but that was in my head. I'm untreatable. I'm a problem. I've got this, I've got that. um You know, why does Paul hang around with me?
01:10:21
Speaker
Why does he bother? I wouldn't bother, blah, blah, blah, you know. Oh my God, you are blowing my mind with the relatability here. Well, in a way I'm glad because um it makes me feel like I'm not so alien when people say that they can relate to me with that sort of stuff. Because that's one of my issues is that I feel like no one understands me. And I've had that my whole life.
01:10:48
Speaker
Well, dude, that is why this show exists. Because yeah what I hear more than anything else is, well, nobody would understand this. I'm just so weird. Nobody understands what I'm going through. And if history has taught us anything, whether it's, you know, domestic abuse or assault or bad experiences with cops, no matter what it is, your boss treating you like crap, the more people talk about it and the more we call shit out, the better it gets for everyone.
01:11:18
Speaker
And there's lot to go forward with that. but The thing is that there is such stigma even now, particularly for men. I do not envy men who try to get mental health treatment because much worse than women, they are directly told by doctors and such to work it out, tough it out, walk it up, you know, whatever it is. I think men are still getting the short end of the stick. They are stigmatized more.
01:11:46
Speaker
I think it is more difficult. And plus, you know, one of the main side effects of a lot of psychiatric medications is something that impacts men's self-esteem because it's sex problems.
01:11:59
Speaker
And, you know, you were already depressed and now your dick doesn't work. That's not going to help you be in a better place. That's going improve your relationship. Yeah. You know, that's, I mean, but that, that compounds things. That's difficult. Well, I, I'll tell you something about ladies. A lot of times when we get sick and take antibiotics, you know, antibiotics will give you a yeast infection. So it's the the same thing.
01:12:23
Speaker
It's like, well, I already felt like crap and now I feel like crap in a new and exciting way. And I can't even have sex about it. So awesome. Yeah. well Yes, that that is all so relatable. And I think that that cycle of thinking that you're not worthy of your partner.
01:12:42
Speaker
And then because I mean, over time, that can even the best partners that that becomes. I don't want to say tiring, but it's kind of insulting when someone is standing there saying, you are my favorite person in the world. I love you with everything inside me. And you say, well, why? That sounds like a really terrible decision. I suck. Why are you with someone who sucks? And I've pretty much said that word for word.
01:13:09
Speaker
Like, I'll just say like, I like, why are you still with me? I don't understand. All I am is trouble and problems. And, you know, but Paul is just so amazing. He's just like, because I love you. I love you with everything that I am and you're my whole world. And I'm just like,
01:13:28
Speaker
well, your world must be really dark. And he's like, will you just shut up and just accept it? thep Well, that's what I'm going to therapy for. Like I need to learn to actually accept That's what a healthy person would do. Yeah. and and I'll tell you, like yeah my health has declined in recent years. I have like heart problems and stuff. And so I can, I do less around the house and I require more care.
01:13:52
Speaker
And I keep saying to him, you don't have to do this. You have, i mean, you, you've been a great husband for all this time. You know, we met in 99, so it's, it's been a minute.
01:14:03
Speaker
And, you know, I want him to know that if he is not choosing this every single day, if this isn't what he wants, he doesn't have to stay around just because, because our marriage vows were not till death do us part. We did not say that. Yeah.
01:14:22
Speaker
we said so long as love shall last because i personally find it obscene when people stay married when they don't like each other especially when they say they're doing it for the kids that's gross ah a like you you're making sure you teach your kids that a loveless marriage is where it's at that's i mean i don't have any kids but that just seems like a bad move Yeah, it's like, oh, well, we're staying together for the kids so we can expose them to toxicity. Isn't that lovely? Yeah.
01:14:55
Speaker
Kids aren't intuitive, are they? Oh, they don't see everything. Their brains aren't like sponges at all. um Certainly not. That's why they go from knowing zero words to knowing hundreds of words in like six months.
01:15:10
Speaker
Well, when I was getting ready this morning for this interview, um I was texting my friend in the US and she was like, oh, good luck, good luck, you know.
01:15:23
Speaker
And I said, you know, I'm just not sure how honest to be. And she was like, what do you mean? And I said, well...
01:15:30
Speaker
You know, like what if people listening end up thinking that I'm, you know, like a psycho or I'm psychotic or something. And and it just goes back to your point earlier about like the stigma.
01:15:44
Speaker
um Because here I am, I'm coming onto a podcast specifically called like Mentally Oddcast. where I know that we're we're talking about this stuff and I'm thinking like how much of it do I need to censor? And we decided, well, I decided and she was supportive of that, that I'm just going to be myself.
01:16:03
Speaker
um But there was this thing going through my head of like, okay, what if a potential author is listening to this and are they going to turn around and say, well, I'm not sure I want to work with Slashic because the guy's like got BPD and he's on meds and he's had a suicide attempt and blah, blah, blah.
01:16:24
Speaker
um You know, and it really... i I could have easily spiraled from that. And then it was lucky my friend was there because I was just like, Hey, and she's gone. No, she she said to me the same thing you said, like people are going find you relatable.
01:16:41
Speaker
And I was like, Oh God, what people? And now I'm kind of glad that I'm, I'm glad that I'm here and I'm glad that we're able to talk about this stuff because I do think you're right. Like these, these podcasts and, and other things are really useful in not only just spreading awareness, but also helping other people feel like, like they aren't alone and they aren't like, you know, totally by themselves in it.
01:17:08
Speaker
Yeah, so exactly. You're doing some great work here. I really appreciate it. ah Well, the thing is that we get, a I mean, a lot of the people on the show are like my buddies. They're people that I know from the writing community or they're like, I mean, I've had my friends on, they're kids sometimes.
01:17:28
Speaker
Just different people that are, I try to provide like a um diverse ah bunch of experiences. You know, we've had a lot of trans guests on and I get to learn a lot about trans people. I've learned about, you know, being a pilot. It's just like all these fascinating things i get to learn because guests come on and are so generous with their truth and with their stories and talking about their process that like it is amazing for me to get to do it.
01:17:59
Speaker
Plus, I get to meet these exceptional people and have these great conversations with people I've never met. And, you know, it's, I mean, there's a whole lot in it for me, not not money, but other things. Yeah, welcome to our lives, hey? Right, right. The life of a creative.
01:18:20
Speaker
Well, now, I think from there, I really want to talk about your novel. And I will tell you that I did not finish it, but I have been reading it. He Will Have the World. And the narrative voice is fucking incredible. Oh, thank you. It well, I love first person. I'm a big fan of the unreliable first person narrator. That's my thing.
01:18:42
Speaker
We're not entirely sure how reliable he'll turn out to be, but yeah but the voice is so compelling and authentic and the the struggles, like the the internal conflict and the monologue and him, like, you know,
01:18:57
Speaker
trying to talk himself down and then talk himself back up and just it's it's so um i mean it it i hate to keep using this word but it is so relatable it's so uh so so tell me about that it isn't you is the main character you He hear is me.
Writing as Legacy and Mental Health
01:19:16
Speaker
yeah Okay. So ah the book is quite important to me.
01:19:24
Speaker
It's going to be really depressing to hear about this, but um I had a list in my head of the things I needed to do before I killed myself.
01:19:36
Speaker
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say that or not, but... We'll have a... we'll have ah ah um trigger warning for that it the show has one but we also do it per episode if it's necessary so it's it's fine to be frank if if you're comfortable with that okay so I had a list in my head of these things that I needed to do and finish writing that book was one of the last things I had to do So just from that, you can sort of get where my headspace was when I wrote it.
01:20:07
Speaker
um So the character is definitely very reflective of how I saw myself, how I saw the world at the time.
01:20:21
Speaker
So, um and I was hoping that the voice would come out as like really authentic because in a way in my in my head this book was going to be my legacy, right? Because it was the last thing I was ever going to produce.
01:20:39
Speaker
um Yeah, so the voice is pretty much what I was like, pardon me, it was how I would sort of see say things myself, if that makes sense.
01:20:56
Speaker
Okay. did Did you have an audience in mind, like a particular demographic or just a general? Well, it was important to me to get the book in front of people with mental illness.
01:21:13
Speaker
Um, and I'm not sure if you saw the dedication in the book, but yes, yes. Yeah. Specifically for anyone going through something similar. Um,
01:21:25
Speaker
Yeah. And the guy who edited it, he's a friend of mine and he was sort of commenting like at the time, um, you know, this is like, you've really got the BPD stuff down pat.
01:21:38
Speaker
And, um, I was like, oh gee, thanks. I've been studying forever. Yeah. Like it's literally just my experiences and like the, um, I don't know how far you got into it, but with the stuff between him and his husband, how his husband is so nice and, um and he sort of, the main character sort of twists everything around.
01:22:03
Speaker
um Like, is he actually being nice or like, is he blaming me for something or, um you know, and then like the intrusive thoughts about, geez, I could just, I could snap this wine glass and that stem would be so sharp, you know?
01:22:20
Speaker
Yep. Yep. That wasn't a real thought that I had, but it fit the context of that particular scene. um And those intrusive thoughts, like they were such a big part of my life when I was writing it. I have to tell you, I wrote it in about three weeks, that book.
01:22:36
Speaker
Wow. um Yeah. I normally write a book in about four to five weeks, but this one was faster. um And I don't think it needed a great deal of editing.
01:22:50
Speaker
It was just because I knew exactly what I wanted to say. um and it just kind of flowed out the way I think it was intended to.
01:23:03
Speaker
That's amazing. It actually reminds me, my my first book was Mary Sue um and I wrote it for the NaNoWriMo or I don't know if you're familiar with yeah the National Novel Writing Month, but yeah, I wrote it for that. So the first draft was like boom, boom, boom, boom boom in a month. I do not write that fast now.
01:23:21
Speaker
But when you know where you're going, like when you know exactly what you want to say and where you're going, yeah, that's, wow, that is really impressive. Now, I know that you cover a lot of gay themes in your work.
01:23:34
Speaker
um One gay theme being that gay people are human and they lead rich lives just like straight folks. But at this but that I know as an American, and i'm I'm sure that's partially true where you are, that kind of representation makes some people angry.
01:23:52
Speaker
Why do you think that is? I, look, i I think sometimes when people see the word gay or queer that that alone is enough to make someone angry.
01:24:04
Speaker
um i think there's still a lot of hatred towards you know the rainbow community and rainbow identities um in general and it's i i can't explain why but it's this you know there's a there's a genuine fear um and the fear i think has led to that hatred like I, yeah, I don't understand it at all. And to be honest, it is one of the, one of the things that kind of consumes me.
01:24:37
Speaker
um And one of the reasons why I created Slashic Horror Press, actually created it with, with a friend. I do want to make sure that he knows that I'm not sort of erasing him from history, but um we sort of jointly decided like we need more more authentic um gay and queer representation um in literature and the hope being that it would reach mainstream audiences as well and that they would get a greater sense of oh okay
01:25:11
Speaker
this is what the story is and the protagonist just happens to be gay or lesbian or whatever. Right. Because one of the things that you hear about representation in, in the media is that it always seems forced.
01:25:26
Speaker
And I think the reason that it seems forced to some people is because they haven't had it before. You know, you you think that it's some sort of like liberal plot point to have a gay person there. But the reason you think that is because since TV started happening, they didn't have gay people there.
01:25:44
Speaker
So now you think it's unusual to see one. But if you live life in the world, you know that there's all sorts of different kind of people everywhere. And it's not it's not realistic to expect everyone to be white and straight and thin and, and you know, all that there.
01:26:02
Speaker
But I think um like there has been a lot of um queer coded characters on TV for, you know, since TV started, but it's always been presented, not always, but you know, the majority of times it was presented as um gay equals evil, gay equals sinful, um gay equals. Great. Like the funny best friend was a step up. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember in the original Twilight Zone,
01:26:33
Speaker
um it was a black and white episode and it was about people the twist was that these people were stuck in limbo right that was the twist of the episode but I remember I watched it probably about two years ago or something on streaming and I was so impressed because it was black and white um so that means it's what 50s 60s maybe and yeah um there was a guy in this episode and he was not even remotely embarrassed or ashamed or anything because they were trying to figure out why they were stuck in limbo um or whether they were actually in hell. And he turned around and he said, like, it can't possibly be be because I'm a homosexual.
01:27:17
Speaker
Like, that doesn't make any sense. And everyone in the episode was like, yeah, like, because you're like, you're a good person. And it was just a really profound moment for me because I thought that would have been so rare in television at the time. And I could imagine the backlash that episode would have received.
01:27:34
Speaker
Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, Serling, you know, Serling was light years ahead of his time. Oh, absolutely. Fantastic. um From everything I know about him. But yeah, so I mean, and now you go from that to heated rivalry, right? And i I've not seen it. I'm not going to watch it.
01:27:55
Speaker
My impression of it is that it's just two guys who are on opposite hockey teams that decide to just have a lot of sex. That's pretty much my view of the show. Yeah.
01:28:07
Speaker
And it's like, I can see why a lot of straight people, particularly straight men, would find that confronting because they don't want to see that. They want to see something else.
Sexuality Discussions and Stereotypes
01:28:19
Speaker
And it can make people feel uncomfortable. And sometimes it makes me uncomfortable when I see straight sex scenes because I don't want to see that. Like, I would much rather see two guys getting it on.
01:28:31
Speaker
But, um you know, it's something that you... not You don't have to live with it, but you should be okay to accept it.
01:28:43
Speaker
Well, and that is a huge thing that, you know, the idea that if something is not to your taste, then it shouldn't exist or no one should like it. Yes. Because we should just be doing better than that by now.
01:28:57
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's like certainly some things are harmful. Gay people existing is not one of those things. Yeah, I was trying to think of examples of, like, any of the world's wrongs that were instigated by gay people.
01:29:12
Speaker
And I'm coming up blank. Like, wars? No, I don't think so. you know, like... Well, I mean... Caligula? Like, that's about how far back you have to go. Yeah.
01:29:27
Speaker
yeah Well, and thing is that also you have this idea... that when you call something a sexual orientation, then it really reduces it to just the sex and not yes like, no, this is who I fell in love with.
01:29:44
Speaker
This is who I want to build a family with. You know, it's not just about boning. Yeah. And it's like,
01:29:55
Speaker
I find it a really interesting and unusual thing when, and I've had this quite a lot, when supposedly straight men are so interested in my sex life.
01:30:08
Speaker
it happens far more frequently than I'm, I think anyone wants to admit, but you know, the questions are like, you know, who's the man, who's the woman. And it's like, well, you're still thinking in binary terms. So good luck to you, sir.
01:30:24
Speaker
but um you know, and then it's like, Oh, you know, who's on top, who's on bottom, who's, you know, or do you do this? Do you do that? Blah, blah. What's it feel like? Or like all these. And I'm like, if you're really that interested, go and do it.
01:30:39
Speaker
not with me but just go and do it like if you're really that curious there's a there's a reason you're that curious there's also it's it's the reason that every time the republicans do a convention in a town that they all go to grinder crashes because you had fright yeah right i've actually heard that yeah it it happened just again recently that it grinders simply cannot keep up with the traffic if i'm only in town for one night no no
Vampire Story Without a Vampire
01:31:08
Speaker
no yeah like seriously but i also wonder if that's part of the reason there's so much hatred as well because it's a hatred for themselves for being that way that they well we covered it earlier it's it's a bunch of dude bros that never confronted their abusive dad their whole mindset is oh my god maybe i am a you know slur um
01:31:30
Speaker
yeah so so yeah it's it's all very sad um but the thing is your sad childhood you know as as a homophobe or whatever it doesn't give people the right to just be assholes as adults they need to grow up and do better and you know which again is is is will be helped by people talking about it it's helped by people relating their experiences so yeah you know what it's it's coming we're working on it it's yeah maybe by the year 3000 yeah maybe if we actually make it that far right right now if you wrote a book about ah well it's called the count and it is not about count von count from sesame street it's about something else so tell us about it yes So this book was the result of being asked if I would ever write a vampire story.
01:32:29
Speaker
And my answer was no, because but I That is the correct answer. Yeah, i um I respect people who like who enjoy vampires. um We've got some really rich literature with vampiric elements. It's just not something that that grabs me as reader or a consumer or a writer.
01:32:52
Speaker
Sure. so um I said, well, I would never write a vampire book. And then I started to think if I – How would I write a vampire novel without the physical presence of a vampire?
01:33:06
Speaker
So if you take away the body of the vampire, what's left? You've got um the themes of bloodlust, the quest for eternal life or immortality.
01:33:18
Speaker
um You've got this insatiable hunger or thirst. you've got um the idea that you are beholden to some power that's greater than you.
01:33:30
Speaker
Like if you think about vampiric stuff where they've got like the old ones or, you know, stuff like that. So I thought those are actually really interesting themes to me.
01:33:41
Speaker
um And it, that sort of got me interested. So then I started to write, About a book where if you have to put a vampire to it, it's the house that the guy moves into.
01:33:56
Speaker
okay. Cool. And then people misconstrue it and say, oh, it's a haunted house. And I'm saying it's actually not a haunted house at all. it's kind of just the center of the power for where these themes coalesce.
Protagonist's Dilemma and Journey
01:34:11
Speaker
So um the story is about a guy Sam, who has recently broken up with Danny.
01:34:21
Speaker
um He was, Sam got cheated on, you know, story of the times. and um And he's moved into this really cheap house. um It's all he can afford. It's run down. It's, you know, it's awful. A friend of his is helping him move in and he's noticing all the mold on the walls, but Sam can't see it because he's already um the the the energy or the presence that lies underneath the house.
01:34:49
Speaker
has already chosen him as um as its new sort of owner or inhabitant. So he can't see it. He thinks it's a wonderful house. It's all beautiful.
01:35:00
Speaker
um And then he discovers on his first night, he starts hearing a ticking sound and it's a clock. And it just drives him insane. You know, I'm sure we all understand how frustrating the ticking of a clock can get when it's it's in your ear and it doesn't end.
01:35:19
Speaker
So he starts searching for this clock and he can't find it. But instead he finds a room that realistically should not be there.
01:35:30
Speaker
And it's kind of an interdimensional pocket in a way. um And it houses a clock. And what he notices when he's in the room, time stops.
01:35:44
Speaker
And when he go and it only restarts for him when he's, when he goes outside the room and the, the more and more we get into the story and you know, the more the deaths sort of pile up, um the more he starts to question whether he should just stay in that room because he can stay in the room with nothing but the clock and live for forever.
01:36:08
Speaker
Or he can just do his best to live his life and just let death get him whenever whenever his time is up. Because the clock is essentially counting down to someone's death. That's what happens with the clock.
01:36:22
Speaker
And he notices a trend where it's counting down. when When it counts down, it will be someone that he loves is going to die.
01:36:35
Speaker
And so he starts to think, well, eventually it's going to count down to my death. So should I just stay in this room and live forever and avoid my death or just live my life?
01:36:47
Speaker
Wow. Wow. Hmm.
01:36:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's, that's quite a question. My goodness. Yeah. he's not the the most likable character. ah he's very flawed. I do like to do flawed characters because I think we're all flawed as human beings. Oh yeah. And I think we all sort of exist in that morally gray area.
01:37:13
Speaker
um So I think, you know, generally people have said that they were still rooting for him in the end, because even though he's deeply flawed, he still wants to do the right thing.
01:37:25
Speaker
um But the darkness that that's around him with the with the house um is just too powerful.
01:37:36
Speaker
Wow.
01:37:40
Speaker
So, okay, so we're going to have a link
Upcoming Works and Background
01:37:42
Speaker
to you in the description, but for now, if someone is not familiar with any of your work, where's the best place for them to start? Yeah.
01:37:53
Speaker
I would say he will have the world. um I think it's, I honestly feel like it's my best work um regardless of, you know, how it came to fruition. I think it's, yeah, it's got interesting themes about, you know, mental health. It's got interesting themes where it's, the whole thing is set on a plane essentially.
01:38:16
Speaker
So you've got that claustrophobic, um, vibe and you know what how many things can go wrong on a plane um quite a few as it turns out um but it's got yeah i think people will i i don't think people will see the twists coming there are a few twists in the book and i don't think people will i think people will be surprised when it's when they sort of reveal Yeah. So I think for me, that's probably the best place to start. If you like horror comedy and you want something a bit more YA, then start with The Haunting of Harry Peck.
01:38:54
Speaker
And if you want to get a general gist of my vibe as a writer, probably the short story collection, Hell is Other People. um Yeah. But if you just want to dive straight in, i would say Hell is um He Will Have the World.
01:39:10
Speaker
So we're going to have a reading from you at the end of the episode. Do you want to set that up for us? Yes.
01:39:21
Speaker
What is it? To do that right now. yeah so Well, I mean, we just want to know, you know, like what, what, what's the piece? What's what's it about?
01:39:32
Speaker
Or have you not picked something yet? No, I, I've decided I'm going to read the first chapter of he will have the world. Oh, sweet. Okay, cool. Then it's already set up. I think we're good there.
01:39:44
Speaker
Yeah. So it just kind of gives people an intro into the mindset of the character and sort of how unreliable he is um as he's sort of, you know, heading towards the flight.
01:39:56
Speaker
So I think it's a good, it'll be a good place to start. Cool. All right. Well, you know, we're nearing the end of our time. I want to make sure, was there anything that we did not cover that you wanted to talk about?
01:40:08
Speaker
um I would just say to keep an eye on ah my upcoming book, Umbilical, ah which I wrote again in about two to three weeks. And it was, I wrote it when I got out of hospital after the the whole debacle.
01:40:27
Speaker
um And it's such a different book to He Will Have the World. It's almost like different ends of the spectrum. But it's a, it's a mystery. Also with gay themes and characters.
01:40:41
Speaker
um I've recently had word from the publisher, Horace Smith Publishing, that it will be released in November. um So only a couple of months away.
01:40:52
Speaker
um and almost on the anniversary of he will have the world because that was november 15 and umbilical should be november 17 so it's it's quite quite a nice date for me oh wow nice yeah um so i'd say keep an eye out for that um yeah and just that's pretty much all i wanted to say about umbilical at this point but thank you so much for having me Oh well we're not done yet. um So we actually like to give guests the chance to ask me a question if you have one. And we don't know each other very well so that could be anything.
01:41:28
Speaker
um
01:41:32
Speaker
Oh I was actually gonna ask you is No Exit available? Like can I watch your your movie? Oh no no I was in undergrad in the 90s we were not filming things.
01:41:44
Speaker
But yeah, it was main stage. and Oh, okay. Yeah, I was a theater major. Double major theater and broadcasting. Right, right, right, right.
01:41:55
Speaker
But yeah, i went to I went to a small college. It's a university now, but it was a college when I went to it. And they did not really give the theater department as much money as they should have.
01:42:07
Speaker
we We relied that the arts kind of relied at football. Can you believe that? Sports?
01:42:16
Speaker
All right. Well, guess what? It is time for the Mad Lib. Are you familiar with Mad Libs? Do they have those where you are? um I've heard of them. Let's go. Wow. Okay.
Mad Libs Game
01:42:28
Speaker
So this is exciting. So let's see. One, two, three, four, five. I need five singular nouns.
01:42:40
Speaker
um so then you give them to me and i write them in this book and they make a story and i read the story at the end if this was a party we'd all be drunk and going around saying words in a circle but we're not so all the words come from you all right let me just have a think what can i make it um okay phone uh-huh um book
01:43:09
Speaker
Alright.
01:43:14
Speaker
Mountain.
01:43:18
Speaker
Okay. um Can I do a proper noun as well or just... ah Yes, you can. Okay. Australia.
01:43:33
Speaker
and And one more, one more noun. Oh, um, um, um, um um um um T-shirt.
01:43:44
Speaker
Okay. So I also need some plural nouns. Looks like one, two, ah just two, two plural nouns. Uh, God.
01:43:57
Speaker
See, like, I feel pressure now. Well, yeah, writers do. That's what's happening right now. It's like, ah! Yes. Mad Libs are always more difficult for writers. And here's the secret that people don't know. If there's long pauses, I cut them out in post. So it sounds like you didn't think for nearly as long as you Ooh, okay, okay.
01:44:14
Speaker
um Okay, going to go animals. And I'm going to go hares.
01:44:27
Speaker
Okay, I need to three adjectives. Nope, four. Four adjectives. Adjectives. Okay.
01:44:42
Speaker
Um...
01:44:48
Speaker
uh big that's an adjective right yep yeah okay um beautiful um sexy and no that's in that's an adverb isn't it no that's not an adverb no sexy is an adjective uh
01:45:15
Speaker
uh
01:45:25
Speaker
Kind.
01:45:28
Speaker
Okay. I need a place.
01:45:35
Speaker
Gosh.
01:45:38
Speaker
kitchen is that what you mean or you mean like the name of like a like a city something well that's the nature of the mad lib sir i don't get to say what it it is that's that's all the information you get so okay a type of liquid spiced rum
01:45:59
Speaker
and a part of the body plural pe I need three of those actually. No, we're not doing penai. No, we already did. It's already written down. Oh, dammit. No, I don't want to be that guy. i use I used a pen, so there's no changing it now. I need two more parts of the body plural.
01:46:17
Speaker
Fingers and eyes.
01:46:24
Speaker
And a verb past tense. Ran.
01:46:30
Speaker
And a colour. Red.
01:46:35
Speaker
Alright, so this is from the news section. So this is breaking news, alien abduction. The sighting of an unidentified flying phone was confirmed yesterday more always was confirmed yesterday morning over the big skies of the kitchen.
01:46:57
Speaker
Later that evening, a beautiful resident named David Jack, because it's a person in room and that's always, anyway, told the police they had been the victim of a book abduction.
01:47:09
Speaker
Sexy creatures strapped me to a long mountain and made me drink something that looked like spiced rum, but tasted like rotten animals, she revealed. or you revealed, actually.
01:47:19
Speaker
Then they taped hairs all over my penai and their machines monitored me while I ran nonstop for what seemed like hours.
01:47:31
Speaker
She, uh, the aliens were described as having red fingers and moving gracefully, almost like a winged Australia in a fight. Uh, finally, they placed me in a t-shirt shaped spacecraft and dropped me off in a kind field.
01:47:50
Speaker
I wasn't hurt, but I learned that I prefer my eyes planted firmly on the ground. Hmm. Applause.
01:48:03
Speaker
That was so weird. ah Well, yes. Yes. That's the nature
Conclusion and Chapter Reading
01:48:10
Speaker
of Mad Libs. And Mad Libs are great because you can play with any age group from kindergarten to adult perverts. Everybody can have fun with Mad Libs.
01:48:19
Speaker
I'm a great fan of them. We had them at my wedding. I'm a fan. um So we we will have a selection after I am done yapping. But for now, um thanks so much for being here, man. This was great.
01:48:32
Speaker
Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much. I'm so glad. and We want to just remind everybody that the best way to support us is to find us on Ko-Fi. That's K-O-F-I. And ah yeah, I think that's it. I never have anything snappy to say at the end. We'll see everybody next week.
01:48:58
Speaker
Okay, I'm going to do a reading from chapter one of my novel, He Will Have the World.
01:49:09
Speaker
I don't want you to go. The words stabbed at my heart. I bit my lips to stop the tears. After everything, after what I did, he still wanted me, still loved me.
01:49:22
Speaker
I could hear the ache in his words, even as an airport announcer called for missing passengers. Through the chaos of the fellow travellers and the noises buzzing around my head, I could still hear it.
01:49:35
Speaker
He'd always been like that, helping me cut through the noise. We both knew I didn't deserve it, didn't deserve him. Yet, there he was. Aidan waited for me to reply, and I held the phone away from my ear so he couldn't hear the heavy breathing or the tiny whimper as I replayed his words in my head.
01:49:56
Speaker
I watched a family pocketing their passports and wheeling their cabin luggage through the airport to a cafe. Four of them, a typical mother, father and two kids, a boy and a girl, the regular nuclear family.
01:50:11
Speaker
The mother kept looking at her phone and then staring up at who I assumed was her husband. He was absorbed by the passports, nodding at her with disinterest. My chest tightened as he tucked something into the back of his pants. See something, say something. See something, say something. Charlie? Aidan's tinny voice echoed, and I brought the phone back.
01:50:34
Speaker
The family continued on its way, and my eyes tracked them. The little boy was scanning the area. He looked scared. The girl looked over her shoulder at me.
01:50:45
Speaker
I waved, and she poked her tongue out. I narrowed my eyes at her and she tugged at her dad's shirt, pointing at me. The father glared in my direction and ushered the family away.
01:50:58
Speaker
i spun around to face the outside, even though the plate glass windows were black, like the world outside. Night was the worst, but it would have to do.
01:51:09
Speaker
and I searched the windows, staring beyond my bleak reflection, the messy hair, the stubble, the dirty stained clothes. I had to do something though. I had to avoid that little girl and her father.
01:51:22
Speaker
They were bad news, I could tell. And if they saw me staring, that would be it for me. In the reflection I saw them walking away, the father giving in me the once over as he did.
01:51:33
Speaker
Beyond them, the airport. It was too busy. My face was hot. The people were breathing all over me and the noises. Wheels on the floor, the hum of phones ringing, the crying of someone somewhere, machinery.
01:51:47
Speaker
made me want to puke. I'm here. I said, turning back to the family as they ambled away. Again, the father tucked something behind his back.
01:51:59
Speaker
I couldn't see what it was. I looked around for security. Nothing. Only people off on holiday. The kid looked at me again and smiled, her lips stretching thin and wide, her eyes low and dark.
01:52:15
Speaker
She's one of them. You can... come home. Aiden sounded a little scared as the words tumbled from him, as if he were afraid of what might happen if I did, in fact, go home.
01:52:28
Speaker
You know I can't. I ran a hand through my hair. I looked at my feet, the shoelaces hanging over the sides, then looked back up.
01:52:39
Speaker
The family was gone. The girl vanished. I knew those eyes. I'd have recognised them anywhere. Aidan, second ago I saw something.
01:52:52
Speaker
He sighed, letting the deep exhale sink into my ear. Charlie, did you take your pills? I didn't even say what I saw, I mumbled.
01:53:04
Speaker
This is real, Aidan. Please come home, he said. His voice was calm, but it had that sharp undertone he was famous for. Clutching at my own boarding pass, I swallowed, still searching for that little girl.
01:53:18
Speaker
She was in the airport somewhere, watching me. I could feel her eyes on me, her father's too. The mother hadn't been classified. She might not know what had happened to her family. She could be innocent, unaware.
01:53:31
Speaker
i need more information. Charlie? Aidan's voice was shaky now. Charlie, what did you see? He doesn't believe me. He never believed me.
01:53:43
Speaker
That's why I... Talk to me. Nothing, I said. It's nothing. I have to go. Aiden tried to say something, but my finger was already on the red icon. I hung up, shoving the device into my pants pocket, and breathed through the chaos around me.
01:53:59
Speaker
My flight was boarding in twenty minutes, and I wasn't even at the gate.
01:54:05
Speaker
The signs overhead directed me, and I followed them, and the girl followed me. They were leading me somewhere, and I reminded myself it wasn't to anywhere special.
01:54:16
Speaker
It was just to the gate, to a bunch of uncomfortable seats in a poorly air-conditioned space with a group of strangers. Enemies. I felt for my medication in my breast pocket and pushed the intrusion out of my mind.
01:54:30
Speaker
Not everyone was an enemy. Not every everyone was bad. Not everyone. Wheeling my bag to gate nine a I studied the faces of my fellow travellers.
01:54:41
Speaker
The flight looked to be sparse. I'd chosen this flight because it was the first one heading to Perth. It was just luck that it was low on bookings. The flight was leaving anyway. I might as well have been on it.
01:54:53
Speaker
And with fewer passengers, the chance of finding one of them was reduced. Not impossible. My psychologist told me a good way to remind myself that we were all human was to look into their eyes.
01:55:05
Speaker
Find the light in their eyes and you'll know you're okay. It was my advice to her, but she'd repeated it to me when I needed to hear it. She hadn't been wrong so far.
01:55:18
Speaker
the girl and her The girl and her family weren't there. The evidence suggested she was, in fact, not following me. The evidence told me I was being unreasonable, that she was just a kid on her way to a theme park somewhere.
01:55:31
Speaker
She wasn't even on my flight. At least I hadn't seen her. I was being symptomatic again. The feeling in the pit of my stomach wasn't so sure though. "'Borting pass, please?' a woman asked, her hand extended.
01:55:45
Speaker
I was at the front of the line and didn't remember getting there. Autopilot had kicked in, and I made a mental note of it. I was supposed to stay present, to always know that I was still myself.
01:55:56
Speaker
I'd been too busy studying. Twenty-three passengers, twenty-four including me. All the lights in their eyes were fine. Even the guy with the hoodie in the middle of the Australian summer. Handing my boarding pass to the flight attendant, Calista by her name tag, I smiled.
01:56:13
Speaker
It was forced and empty, but she didn't notice. Her smile was genuine. She was happy, but why? i couldn't figure it out as I passed her, gripping my ticket tightly to my chest.
01:56:25
Speaker
Someone behind me was laughing. I stopped and spun around, feeling drops of sweat slide down my face and neck. It wasn't the heat. It was the paranoia. I knew it was paranoia.
01:56:38
Speaker
People were allowed to laugh, to be happy and jovial. The sounds didn't mean they were laughing at me. Yet my gut stirred. Are right, mate? Hoodie guy stood in front of me, his own cabin luggage, just a Nike shoulder bag.
01:56:52
Speaker
There couldn't be much in it, and I remembered security had been very light earlier. Under the hoodie, I saw light brown hair. He was fair-skinned. Maybe he didn't want to get burned in the heat.
01:57:04
Speaker
Except we were inside, under the luminescence of the halogens. He's one of... I nodded to him, staring into his eyes. He looked away and scratched at his nose, watching me grab my pills from my breast pocket.
01:57:16
Speaker
Nervous flyer, huh? He asked, and then he continued on his way. i don't like tight spaces, I replied, even though I was talking too low for him to hear me.
01:57:28
Speaker
Claustrophobic, on top of everything else. I muttered to myself. Other passengers moved straight past me, a few people giving sad smiles as they saw my sorry state, sweaty, pale.
01:57:43
Speaker
And I looked down at myself to see my polo shirt was creased and unkempt. My jeans had mud stains on them. Aidan had asked me to change, begged me in fact. As usual, I hadn't listened to him.
01:57:55
Speaker
I'd been listening to the voice inside me, telling me he was trying to control me, trying to make me something I'm not. Aidan was human, that much I knew. And I loved him.
01:58:07
Speaker
That's why I was taking this flight to begin with. Swallowing my pill, I resumed walking down the narrow air bridge. The walls grew thinner as I went, shrinking, shrinking, as the door of the plane became more prominent.
01:58:22
Speaker
I breathed through the nerves. That's all they were. I tried to convince myself of that, repeating the idea on a loop. As a different flight attendant, a man this time, asked to see my boarding pass again.
01:58:34
Speaker
One person asking i could understand, but two? Searching his eyes, I was a little at ease. I showed my pass. All the way back. All the way in the back row, sir," he said, pointing me towards the aisle.
01:58:49
Speaker
People were packing their luggage into the overhead compartments, and the route seemed so unclear. a straight line, yet not really. I began to see patterns.
01:59:04
Speaker
Different pathways through the chaos, through the people and their junk, and the pressure in my head started to build. My seat was too far away. I should have booked my flight earlier. I should have asked for an aisle seat for the for the exit row. I didn't request a specific meal. what fire What entertainment do they have? Where's the toilet? Where's the fucking toilet? How do I get off this thing?
01:59:24
Speaker
Sir, please, the attendant said, smiling. He must have seen my chest puffing in and out because he added, Everything i okay, sir? Sir, sir, sir. Sure, I'm good.
01:59:37
Speaker
I headed down the aisle, taking a deep, deep breath, and holding it as I shuffled towards my seat, twenty six c A woman with flowing black hair was struggling with her cabin luggage, and she muttered, "'Sorry,' as she heaved it above her head.
01:59:52
Speaker
She looked at me like she expected something. "'Help, maybe?' "'No way. She's on her own.' I pushed past her, ignoring the passive-aggressive "'asshole' from a nearby traveller, an old woman with shaking hands and grey hair wrapped in a tight weave.
02:00:09
Speaker
repeating my actions with four others, their eyes all filled with light, I made it to 26C. The row was empty, thank fuck, and I stuffed my bag above me and plunged into the seat.
02:00:22
Speaker
The seatbelt was under my ass, and I pulled it free, strapped in, and shut my eyes. They want you to strap in. They want you shackled. They want you- I took another pill, and the voice subsided.
02:00:34
Speaker
My psychologist had told me that times of stress can make it stronger, so I needed to practice my breathing. I trusted her. She believed me. She was human. My neck sweat was seeping into my clothes as I sat there, letting the cabin's humidity engulf me.
02:00:48
Speaker
A quiet hum settled around me. small vibration as the plane's engines idled. Humidity like that reminded me of far north Queensland, where the locals thought 46 degrees Celsius was brisk, but still chugged beer like water.
02:01:05
Speaker
I could have used a drink. Alcohol and medication were never a good mix, and I was usually a stickler for rules. As I sat in the chair, surrounded by hums and vibrations and flight attendants checking the aisles for rubbish, all I wanted was some dark liquor, the darkest they had.
02:01:22
Speaker
A man and a woman walked towards me, lugging their bags over their shoulders. He wore a Slazinger shirt. She wore a skin-tight etched thing, as if she were on the way to the gym.
02:01:33
Speaker
My lip curled and I raised a hand over my mouth, pretending to look away. You good, buddy? The man saw me and raised an eyebrow. I nodded. Sure. You looking at my girlfriend?
02:01:46
Speaker
He asked. His biceps inflated, then my lip curled further. No, I said. i was just looking around. In general. He scowled at me and his girlfriend put a hand on his wrist, tugged him away.
02:02:01
Speaker
i took a breath and thought about another pill. Too many made me dizzy and I needed to keep my head in the game. For better or worse, I was on this flight. For better or worse, I would get to Perth.
02:02:13
Speaker
As the cabin crew prepared for the plane for takeoff, I fiddled with my seatbelt. The voice had subsided again, crawling back into the shadows of my mind. At times like that, when I was truly me, truly alone in my head, I could see so much more clearly.
02:02:29
Speaker
Light in the eyes. What a joke. In that moment, as the pilot's voice crackled through the chair speakers, I knew it was rubbish. I knew the whole thing about light and the stuff I thought I'd seen.
02:02:43
Speaker
All of it was rubbish. I was lucky not to be locked up. I only had to maintain my sanity for six hours until we'd land at Perth Airport. What I'd do there, I didn't know yet.
02:02:56
Speaker
With another slap to my breast pocket and the comfort of my rattling pills, I was confident I could do it. I could get away, go somewhere, and just be for a while. That's all I needed.
02:03:07
Speaker
Even as the plane sped down the runway and my stomach lurched. Even as I looked across the aisle to the other side of the plane and saw her. The little girl. And that's it. That's chapter one. So I hope you enjoyed it. i hope it sort of got people interested.
02:03:26
Speaker
um Thanks very much.