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What is the One Bed Trope? feat. Rachel Griffin
35 Plays18 days ago
In the eighth episode of The Write Way of Life’s ~Romance Season~, host Karis Rogerson chats with author Rachel Griffin, a New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of The Nature of Witches, Wild is the Witch, and Bring Me Your Midnight. They discuss one of the internet’s favorite tropes: Oh no! There is only One Bed, along with dissecting the love-hate relationship of tropes marketing, and why a book can’t just be twelve tropes in a trenchcoat.
Find Rachel Griffin online. Order her books, including preordering The Sun and the Starmaker (out Feb. 17 2026). And follow her on instagram.
The Write Way of Life is a craft-focused author interview podcast by Karis Rogerson & A.D Jolietta. Follow The Write Way of Life on Instagram or find us on our website. Follow Karis on Instagram and subscribe to her newsletter. Follow Adi on Instagram.
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Transcript
Introduction and Co-host Welcome
00:00:28
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of The Right Way of Life. My name is Karis Rogerson. I am one of your hosts. I am an author, a reader, and a podcaster. And I'm here today with my wonderful co-host, Aidy Joletta. Addie, tell the people hello.
00:00:46
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello. and don't know. I'm in a mood. That was beautiful.
00:00:55
Speaker
How are you,
Winter Solstice Traditions
00:00:56
Speaker
Addie? I am doing good. it is my favorite day of the year, the winter solstice. My Christmas for pagans. Yes. What are you doing today? are you doing your 13 wishes?
00:01:08
Speaker
i am I am. I'm also doing the thing where like you go around the place that you're staying at with a candle in every room. You open the doors, let them let the old year air out, bring the new year air in. the whole kick cat and caboodle.
00:01:24
Speaker
Am I mostly an atheist? Yeah. But I think these are fun little things to do. So. Yeah, I'm doing my solstice wishes. I've written up 13 of them.
00:01:34
Speaker
And the universe gets your shit together in 2026. That's all I'll say.
Reflecting on 2025 Wishes
00:01:40
Speaker
I will say I did the solstice wishes last year. And I did lose the piece of paper. that Because I took a copy of all the wishes that I did. And then I like did the solstice thing where like you burn them or whatever.
00:01:53
Speaker
But I do remember a couple of the ones that were on there. And I will say i'm I'm looking at so far like... Like an 80 to 90% of them came true.
00:02:06
Speaker
I did not publish a book last year, but that's okay. That was very advantageous of me. that Advantageous? Do you mean ambitious? Yes, that's what I mean. I love English.
00:02:20
Speaker
It's the A word. It's got a zhuzh. It's got a... A zhuzh. Ambitious. Advantageous. Incredible. As you may have gathered, is the
Year-End Plans
00:02:32
Speaker
solstice. It is December 21st, 2025. It is our final recording for this year, this podcast. Where are Addy.
00:02:43
Speaker
where are you addie I am in the frozen north, closer to the North Pole than many people ever get to be. I'm in Homer, Alaska. Let's go. yeah i am in Brooklyn, where I have been forever.
00:02:59
Speaker
But I am leaving Brooklyn on Thursday. Where are you headed? What you what's your what are your Christmas plans? I'm flying to visit my friend in Knoxville. Ooh, that's fun.
00:03:12
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm very excited to close out the year not by myself for like the first time in four years. um That should be really good.
00:03:22
Speaker
And yeah, I thought we could take a little bit today on this final 2025 recording session to just like reflect for a hot second on the year.
2025 Challenges and Podcast Launch
00:03:34
Speaker
And here's what I have to say about 2025.
00:03:39
Speaker
good fucking riddance hated this year. There were some good things, but mostly it sucked.
00:03:49
Speaker
2025 for me was my big Saturn return. um And it's going to end in March of 2026. And I'm very excited for that. But boy, oh boy, was 2025 for me a big a big Saturn return energy.
00:04:04
Speaker
So much of it. ah ah Everything that happened needed to happen. And is and i'm I am glad that it happened.
00:04:16
Speaker
In hindsight, But I would not wish it on my worst. Well, no, I would wish it on my worst enemy because I'm a petty bitch. But
00:04:27
Speaker
it's been a it's been a wild ride. I will say, though, in 2025, we this podcast. we launched this podcast We filmed and we did an entire so season one and now we're halfway through season two.
00:04:43
Speaker
So like this podcast, you know, ah was born in in the flames of ah misery and brought us great joy.
Podcast Milestone Celebration
00:04:51
Speaker
Yeah. Born in the Flames of Misery. Gorgeous. No notes. um Yeah, i am this is one of like my proudest achievements for the year, to be honest. We are so close. We are four downloads away from 1,000 downloads on the podcast, cumulatively, which is like so exciting. I'm just...
00:05:10
Speaker
So excited. i love that we get to do this every couple of weeks, just like sit down and chat. And like, I feel like Addy and I know each other better than we did this time last year. We've grown closer. We've had all these hilarious, I hope they're hilarious to you listeners, but they're hilarious to me. had all these like conversations and heart to hearts and we've talked to so many incredible authors And I feel like I've grown in my confidence, in my ability to not just discuss craft, but like sit in front of a microphone and chit chat for a bit. Like, I'm like, all right, let's go. Stand up comedy is next. Like, let's let's rock them this roll.
00:05:47
Speaker
But also good riddance, 2025. Good riddance in May 2026 bring about the day that we're all waiting for.
Hopes for 2026
00:05:56
Speaker
And I'm not going to say anymore, but I do think that threads and and the Internet knows what day we're waiting for in America.
00:06:02
Speaker
I think when it happens, we should make it a national holiday. And also do a whole podcast episode. No, just kidding. No, no, we should, though. We should. Special drop. Doesn't matter. Let's go.
00:06:15
Speaker
um All right. let's Let's talk about books. um What have you been reading lately?
Current Reads and Writing Projects
00:06:21
Speaker
I have started The Artist's Way. Okay. hi How's that going?
00:06:27
Speaker
it ah Well, I read the prologue. Brilliant. Incredible. I also ah jumped on the bandwagon and am in the process of reading the Game Changers series.
00:06:41
Speaker
As I'm sure. Yeah. The world is obsessed. Actually, I just had a friend randomly text me yesterday and they were like, have you watched Game Changers or Heated Rivalry? And I was like, have I watched Heated Rivalry? Yeah.
00:06:56
Speaker
yes have you and they were like i i didn't know that it was so good like i just put it on today just to like watch something and i was like you got to experience all five episodes in a row anyway so now they're obsessed and i got to as they should be about season two um yeah yeah what else am i ah what else am i reading um no Yeah, I think that's it. And I'm and i'm doing some beta reads for people. yeah um
00:07:31
Speaker
and And how's your writing going? It's good. It's good. um i I think I'm going to totally revise the rom-com um to be a little bit more Alaska-specific now that I'm here. So that's um probably...
00:07:53
Speaker
I'm delaying the querying a bit. I might have to bump it. So we'll we'll see how far I get. um It's been actually really good. Now that I have a job that like doesn't consume my every waking moment um and allows me to take like a designated hour lunch break a day where I just. We love what?
00:08:12
Speaker
We walk out the building and I don't have to think about work. e young brother And then I clock out and then I don't have to think about work usually most of the time, although I am getting notifications right now about a work-related thing. But that's fine. It's not an emergency.
00:08:28
Speaker
i'm Or my little amygdala doesn't think it's an emergency. Unlike with theater, it was a five-alarm fire. so i don't And I don't know why. I don't know why.
00:08:41
Speaker
ah That's how my brain treated it so um Yeah. ah Oh, i something exciting happened yesterday, though, sort
Short Film Project Excitement
00:08:47
Speaker
of writing adjacent. So I'm doing the short film that I wrote. Yeah.
00:08:51
Speaker
And we had our first read through with um ah the director and our ah actor. And it was wild to just sit there on the Zoom. I'm also like a producer on it, obviously, because I can't just do one thing. So I had like half producer brain, half writing brain. But it was very interesting, like... hearing folks read the words that I had written and then dissect the things that I had written and like get it or like, fix like respond to it in a way that I was like, Oh, what an interesting interpretation. Like, um, they definitely had a moment, you know, how, like in all of your English classes where you're like the blue curtains mean that the person was sad
00:09:33
Speaker
And it's like maybe maybe the blue curtains mean that the person was sad or like the author just likes blue curtains. um So there was like one moment where they were talking about a turn of phrase that I had used and they're like, oh, and this probably means this and it's related to this and it's so well done, like the juxtaposition. And I was like, absolutely, that is what I intended. Absolutely. It was not me coming back to that moment and just not recognizing that there is a difference between starlight and stardust. 100% meant the two different characters to be saying different things and their definition. Yep. Absolutely.
00:10:18
Speaker
Absolutely. player Perfection. Truly.
Karis' Reading and Writing Plans
00:10:23
Speaker
um but yeah no i'm i'm really excited i've got i've got a lot of speaking of the new year i've got a lot of plans for writing in the new year hopefully 2026 is going to be the year of creativity for me where i like just bang out some shit because it hast other it's now my my full creative focus yeah that's awesome what about you what are you reading writing I am reading really exciting middle grade arc. It is called Raven Rising by Christine Hartman Dare. That's my best friend. And it is, ah debuts in July from Heart Drum.
00:11:02
Speaker
It is about a, um... A young Cherokee girl who is living, like, oh who, like, moves away with her aunt for her aunt's new job to recover and, like, try and deal with some grief. And um so there's a lot about, like, how she is...
00:11:26
Speaker
honoring and um staying connected to her native community and culture well-being at large and there's a really cool thread of magic and baking and the cover is so beautiful and christine like i said is one of my best friends she is um One of the best people I know and an incredible writer. And she's got this debut next year and then a picture book coming out in 2027. I'm so excited and i just can't wait to watch her career soar. So that's been really fun to read.
00:12:03
Speaker
That's awesome. and That sounds like a really good book. Everybody should buy it. I'm going to add it to my 20 copies. Yes.
00:12:12
Speaker
Let's go. Support indigenous literature. Support middle grade because
00:12:20
Speaker
publishing ain't going do it. No. And um support Christine specifically. um Yeah. Oh, and then I'm also writing some things. I'm writing a novella.
00:12:36
Speaker
um I'm outlining a sequel. I'm waiting and to hear back whether my revision of Revenge was good enough or like, you know, like got it to the right place. And um I've been sending out some early copies of Nat and Cammie for possible blurbs.
00:12:57
Speaker
Speaking Nat and Cammie, when is it when is it getting published? And where? 2023, 2026.
00:13:04
Speaker
Great. Great. So everybody buy, you know, a lot of can't pre-order it yet. I'll let you know when you can. Oh, okay. Okay. Well, keep listening to this podcast then so that you can hear exactly when There go. There will be a cover reveal in February, and then after that, we're off to the races.
00:13:25
Speaker
Hell yeah. That's so exciting.
Introduction to Literary Tropes Discussion
00:13:28
Speaker
Um, this week we're continuing talking about tropes. This time we're talking about one specific trope and we talked to Rachel Griffin.
00:13:40
Speaker
Rachel Griffin is the New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of The Nature of Witches, Wild is the Witch, and Bring Me Your Midnight. When she isn't writing, you can find her wandering the Pacific Northwest, reading by the fire, or drinking copious amounts of coffee and tea.
00:13:55
Speaker
She lives in the Seattle area with her husband, dog, and growing collection of houseplants.
Rachel Griffin on Young Adult Stories
00:14:01
Speaker
All right. Hello, friends. It's Karis Rogerson here on The Right Way of Life podcast, and I'm here with our guest for the day, the incredible Rachel Griffin. Rachel, would you mind introducing yourself and your books to our listeners?
00:14:15
Speaker
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. um So I am Rachel Griffin. I have written three books that are out in the world currently. The Nature of Witches, Wild is the Witch, and Bring Near Midnight. All three of those are young adult standalones. They um range from contemporary fantasy to fantasy. Mm-hmm.
00:14:39
Speaker
And are witchy and magical and romantic. My upcoming release is called The Sun and the Star Maker. And that is coming out in February. It is also YA fantasy standalone.
Understanding Literary Tropes
00:14:53
Speaker
Yes. And I just have to say from like a fan perspective, I love your books. They're all so gorgeous. And I love that like the actual hardcover, like the the print book itself has beautiful designs on them. They're just...
00:15:08
Speaker
I was like, I have to have all the books, obviously, myself. um So, big fan. So, I'm so excited to be chatting with you today. think... i think um your specific brand, at least in um the nature of witches, that like blend of like contemporary and fantasy is like exactly my like my sweet spot when it comes to fantasy. like I'll read all of it, but I love it when it's got like a a foothold in the contemporary world. so yeah I love that too. I think contemporary fantasy is so fun because you can take
00:15:41
Speaker
elements of our everyday world that we know and kind of inject them with wonder and make them seem magical and I think that's a really cool uh uh park of writing contemporary fantasy yes it's also you know when I when I'm writing I'm like my brain is not you know it's not in the second secondary world it doesn't have those capabilities yet for creation but it can do a little bit of magic in our world so that's That's where I'm at. um But yeah, so we're here. this is in the middle of our little mini trilogy of episodes on tropes.
00:16:15
Speaker
and So the last episode that people will have heard was um just like a basic like what are tropes? We we kind of got into the... the nitty gritty and also the broad thing of it all. And then today we wanted to talk specifically about one of my favorite tropes. um Obviously, it's the only one bad trope, which I think is so delicious. um Both because it's so it's like a classic and it's fun, but also because you can subvert it in so many ways. But I'm actually getting ahead of myself because I was going to ask, can you just define for us like what are tropes? Like how do you understand them? How do you work with them in your stories?
Tropes in Marketing
00:16:53
Speaker
Yeah, i kind of think of tropes just as those common either plot points or beats in characters and relationships that we kind of see over and over again that um are common in stories and movies that are things that our brain sees it and we're like, oh, I recognize that. you know So they're they're common things that that we see in entertainment and stories.
00:17:22
Speaker
um And i think that tropes are great because they give us a lens from which to like view a story or a movie or you know, whatever it is, a play. But they also kind of give readers something to look forward to when you do have those certain tropes that you love that you want to read more of.
00:17:49
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. Can you, I love the idea of them being like a lens through which we can sort of like view the story. Can you like exp expand on that a little bit? Like, what do you mean specifically?
Tropes as Story Enhancements
00:18:01
Speaker
Yeah. So mainly what I'm thinking here is that in the world of social media, um authors, that you know, are expected to, um you know, promote our books online and talk about our books online. Right. And a lot of times, you know, we don't have that thousands of words or hundreds of words in which to describe um a book.
00:18:25
Speaker
And so tropes are a really nice way to say what you can expect in a book. Just certain elements. I really don't want tropes to ever...
00:18:38
Speaker
um replace the like the actual, like they're not the actual marketing of a book, right? But they are, I think, a great way to get readers excited because again, there are certain tropes that readers love and that they'll actually seek out. And so I think when we are trying to like promote our work online, or if you're on the other side of things as a reader and you're talking about books that you loved online, those are easy things to point to that other readers can recognize.
00:19:09
Speaker
Yeah, I like to think of them, especially with marketing, where it's like, it can't be the whole of the story. Like, you can't, you can't sort of come at your story and be like, I have a trope and I'm going to build a book around it. mean, you could, it would you would just have to do a lot of work to build the rest of the story. um And so I think of tropes as like the sprinkles or like the cherry on the sundae or something like it's just like a little extra something that is exciting and sweet and thrilling and you know you're gonna love it and you're gonna love to see how the author puts their own spin on
Using Tropes in Writing
00:19:41
Speaker
it.
00:19:41
Speaker
Yeah, I completely agree. When I'm actually brainstorming my books, and then if I ever get stuck when I'm writing, I have several lists that I keep of things that I just love, things that get me excited as a reader.
00:19:54
Speaker
And i pull a lot from those lists. like It can be like the smallest moment, like you know the love interest has to carry the main character, things like that. But if for so for whatever reason...
00:20:08
Speaker
I'm feeling stuck when I'm writing. i can go to my list of things that I love and get really excited to write toward that scene, even if, to your point, it is like a little dash or sprinkle of something. Yeah, I love that. I'm also, i have a list. I keep calling it my book ideas list, but it's really just like my book, like...
00:20:29
Speaker
Premises and like tropes and like accoutrement like it's like it ranges from like here's a whole plot to like ooh brother's best friend right like someday gonna write that and it's gonna be so good. um And so I love that idea and i know some people call it like an id list which I believe is related to Freud but I don't really understand much about that.
00:20:50
Speaker
but I was going to say, um ah Jennifer Lynn Barnes actually has an incredible um lecture on it's called I think it's called writing to your id or writing for your id. And it's all about building that id list. And it really is just injecting your writing with the things that you absolutely love.
00:21:08
Speaker
And I think there's something to that where it's like, Like a ah ah truism, I guess, that I've heard a lot as I've been on my writing journey and like in in workshops or lectures or something is like um readers can tell when you're when you love what you're writing, like readers can pick up on that. And it's so true that like if you're at a point and you're lost or you have writer's block or you're bored, you can just be like, all right, what do
Debating Tropes' Impact
00:21:31
Speaker
I like? What would make me excited to work on the story again?
00:21:35
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think I'm i mean, I spend way too much time on threads as anyone who knows me knows and begs me to spend less time on threads. um But there's, there's so many conversations and it feels like it's very cyclical. They're like, Oh, tropes are bad. No tropes are great. Tropes are bad for marketing. Tropes are good for marketing. And I'm like, I think like in most situations, the answer is like right down the middle. um And it was definitely in this case where it's like, they're really great. Actually. They, they like, they're, they're tropes for a reason because they work. Yeah.
00:22:09
Speaker
So yeah, I just like to think about them. as a reader if you know again i really don't think tropes replace marketing but i think they're a tool absolutely because there are certain things that i see that as a reader i'm goingnna want to pick a book on Like, I'm going to want to pick that book up just because um it's set in an endless winter.
00:22:30
Speaker
Or because, you know, that moment, like, the um the love interest who hates everyone except them in character, I'm always going to pick that book up. Yes. Always going to pick it up Because that's delicious.
00:22:45
Speaker
um But we are here talking about Only One Bed, which I mentioned earlier that I think it's really fun because there are so many ways to expand upon it, right? Like it doesn't have to be a bed specifically. It could be...
00:22:58
Speaker
a log if you're in the woods and, or you know what, it could be so many different like sleeping accommodations and you can also flip it really easily and do like, oh no, there's three beds. And what are we going to do? Cause there's only two, like, you know, we wanted to share a bed, but, um, so yeah, I just wanted to talk about what draws you to using this trope. Like, what do you think is special about it? I guess.
Exploring 'Only One Bed' Trope
00:23:26
Speaker
Yeah, so ah um I will intro this by saying only one bed makes an appearance in my second book, Wild as the Witch. it's actually only one tent, which I always joke is the Pacific Northwest version of of only one bed.
00:23:44
Speaker
um The reason I love it so much is because forced proximity is always going to be one of my absolute favorite tropes. And i feel like the only one ven trope is even like is forced proximity, but magnified. And i think everything is magnified and when you're sharing such a small space and an intimate space.
00:24:08
Speaker
So tensions are higher. You're so much more aware of the person you're with. You're hearing, they're breathing, you're feeling every slight movement. So it's just everything is so magnified that I think it's an incredible way to and get to know your characters more and have these really raw moments. But B, especially if there's romance or romantic tension, that you can really play that up in these kinds of moments. Yeah.
00:24:43
Speaker
I love that you said, like, your point about you can get to know your characters better. Because I think... i I'd never thought of it in those terms. I'm just like, ooh, yay, it's the tension, etc. But you're so right that they're... Like, what your character notices. How your character thinks. Like, what they're thinking. What, you know, the... Every single beat.
00:25:05
Speaker
And you can really, like, because it's a novel, you can really, like, slow it down and stretch it out. So the same... 20 seconds can last for 10 pages if you do it well. That's ah and it's something in um ah Wild is the Witch, when they wake up in the morning, Iris has this thought. Iris has main character, and she thinks...
00:25:24
Speaker
How many people have seen Pike wake up in the morning? And Pike wears glasses, but he doesn't when he's sleeping. so she thinks, I've never... I'm probably one of the only people that's ever seen him without his glasses on in those moments in the morning. Like, it's just... Right? Like, it's... Yeah. there It's so intimate in a way. even Even there's nothing romantic about that so much as...
00:25:52
Speaker
no one ever like you're at your most vulnerable right when you're sleeping the um and i really really like that vulnerability a hundred percent yeah and even the thought of like the sort of, it it changes your relationship, right? Like, in that moment of being like, oh, I'm one of the only people who sees um this character, like, at in this vulnerable state without glasses, like, with no sort of, like, none of the armor, the masks that we put on. Yeah.
00:26:25
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And then you just think too, from like a safety perspective, you've got to really trust someone to sleep with them, right? Like, yeah. ah And you know, it's that there has to be that's why I love it too. When enemies to lovers, because there has to be some level of trust there that like this person Is that like that I am safe to fall asleep next to this person. i did and There's just so many things about it that I love as a trope.
00:26:57
Speaker
And I'm also thinking like in An Enemies to Lover, it's like if you do it towards the end of the arc when they're like softening towards each other and they have that trust, it's one thing. But if you do it like two enemies forced on the run together and it's their first night and it's like one of them doesn't sleep at all because they don't trust the other one. like That too has so many repercussions and like developments for the story and for the character and
Subverting Tropes
00:27:20
Speaker
geez. Okay. Yeah. I'm just sitting here like, oh please like the ripple. It's like, I've thrown a pebble into a pond and I'm like, it just, yeah.
00:27:28
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's just such a great trope for so many reasons. Yeah. And I love um in one of my novels that I my first attempt at contemporary fantasy that is the bane of my existence right now. It just like it keeps not working. And so have to like shove it aside every couple of months. But there's a scene where like where many characters going up to an inn and she's with her the guy that she's fake dating that she's convinced she's in love with while she's actually falling in love with her female best friend.
00:27:57
Speaker
great times and she's like okay we're at an inn it's just the two of us there's only gonna be one bed and then they open the door and there's two beds and she's like well that's a bummer and then her actual love interest shows up and they have to share but it's great times that's um lovely yes I was like so proud of myself when I came up with that. um And so I do love all the ways that like, especially in, I guess, like contemporary leaning stories where there are characters who have an awareness of romance storytelling.
00:28:29
Speaker
one fun way to play with tropes is to sort of like break the fourth wall almost and be like have the character be like oh i recognize what's happening or even if it's like historical or a second world fantasy and they haven't read you know the the multitude of only one bed books they could be like how odd that there's only one bed well i have to be like close to this person you know like it's just really fun yeah i completely agree Yeah.
00:28:56
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, my God. I was I love that. um And so we've we've talked about specifically like only one bad, but it's not the only trope that is one of the like.
00:29:07
Speaker
I feel like there's there's some tropes that are like the big ones, right? Like only one bad, like um enemies to lovers, forced proximity, like the ones that you kind of brother's best friend, like that you find
Tropes Serving the Story
00:29:18
Speaker
very often. And then there's the like sort of more niche, maybe microtropes that are like um the ones that you'll find on, speaking of marketing, like a trope graphic where it's like, and then they keep running and you're like, well, that's not technically trope. It's more of a microtrope.
00:29:33
Speaker
But all that to say, the the bigger ones that are more common and more maybe like well-worn, like they've been used often. how do How do you as an author take them and then put your own spin on them?
00:29:46
Speaker
So I really try to think about how they're serving the characters and or the story first and foremost, because they have it has to fit. um And so, for example, when, you know, there's only one tent, it's, a you know, they're camping, shocker, and there's a big storm and her tent gets damaged beyond repair. Yeah.
00:30:10
Speaker
um And so it's, you know, it's the showing up at the end and there's only one bed, but it's in the woods and, you know, they didn't plan for this. and then you have your sleeping bags and your blankets that you're having to share. But I think first and foremost, it's how does this fit into the story I'm telling?
Playing with Reader Expectations
00:30:32
Speaker
And how does it then fit in with these specific characters? How are they going to respond to this situation? Because everybody is different. you know ah you know, a hundred different people could show up to the end with only one bed and they're all going to react to that in different ways. So i think first and foremost, I really do try and think about that.
00:31:00
Speaker
But I also try and put, you know... little spins on them. Like to your point, are you walking down and hoping there's one bed and there's actually two? Like I like, you can play with reader expectations where in a way you're setting something up where the reader would think that it's going to resolve or end in one way. And then you can change it and, and you know, make it end or make it go along a different path that wasn't as expected. So I think that they're really fun ways
Refreshing Familiar Tropes
00:31:35
Speaker
to do that. You know, we've also heard of like subverting enemies to lovers to lovers to enemies.
00:31:41
Speaker
right? Like, ah yeah, where you where you swap what the expectation is. and I think that that gets people excited. um And it's a way to breathe new life and to kind of freshness into the tropes that we absolutely love.
00:32:00
Speaker
I love that. Because as I was asking the question, I was thinking of like, for only one bed all the ways that you can subvert it right like everyone romance readers especially you're reading a book you you're in the scene they're walking into the there's only one bed and you're like okay now someone's gonna say that they'll sleep on the ground they'll fight a little bit and then they'll both share the bed and it'll be really like tense and and whatever but what if you do let someone sleep on the floor Then you have to kind of, you know, give the payoff in a later scene, right? Like, they still have to be able to have that moment of, like, the tension building, building, building, cresting, breaking, whatever. But, like, you can have the person sleep on the floor and then the reader's like, oh my god, what? No, why? And they keep turning the pages. I actually think the movie, The Proposal, does that really well. yeah um With Sandra Bullock and is it Ryan Reynolds? And sees in the bed and he's on the floor. and they have this like really honest conversation because it's dark.
00:32:58
Speaker
They're not next to each other. And it creates a moment of vulnerability where it's really like the first honest conversation they've ever had. And it works really, really well. And to your point with that movie, they later like there's so much...
00:33:13
Speaker
tension and like heartwarming stuff in that scene so the next scene they they have to make it comedic right and be like no like we have to that it's such a funny movie um that scene specifically is great but um yeah like there's so many there are so many there are why can't i get the sentence out so the best of us know romance readers and romance writers know that there are beats and there are moments that are expected and there are sort of a narrative um rise and plateau and and descend that you expect in novels and especially in romance novels and i think it's so fun
00:33:57
Speaker
To just look at all the ways you can take that and then spin it and make it
Favorite Tropes and Their Appeal
00:34:01
Speaker
your own. Whether that's taking a trope and doing the opposite. Whether that's taking a trope and then like delaying the payoff. Right? Like there's so many ways to make it fresh and new. And now I'm just going to like have to rant for 10 minutes about people who don't like romance because they're wrong. I won't do that.
00:34:17
Speaker
ha But yeah. And yeah. Yeah, and I totally forgot about that scene in The Proposal where they do, they he sleeps on the floor and you're kind of like, at first you might be like, oh, bummer, I was really hoping. But then they have that beautiful connection, which they need because they they they aren't seeing each other, you know, as real people yet.
00:34:37
Speaker
Yeah, and it just really, really works. Yeah. Sandra Bullock, queen of the rom-com, bring her back. Yes. I know, I'm so here for that.
00:34:48
Speaker
Oh, God. What are some other tropes that you love, whether they're ones that you've played with before or that you kind of are like, someday in a future book? Yeah, I'm always going to show up for a forced marriage, marriage of convenience.
00:35:03
Speaker
Like, i just, I really love that. um I also am, speaking of microtropes, the like, and as I already said, i love it when the love interest has to carry things.
00:35:17
Speaker
The main character. Also love the like touch her and die. i mean i you know, I can't help It um ah it speaks to something. and It's just a micro trope that I love.
00:35:30
Speaker
um And that I also, you know, we talked about forced proximity, which probably is. i don't know if I could taste my favorite, but I really, really do love forced proximity.
00:35:42
Speaker
And then, you know, friends to lovers. I, I, all of the yearning and like a longing involved is something that I really, really love.
00:35:57
Speaker
I'm a friends to lovers truther. Like, i will I will go down with friends to lovers as a peak trope. And i I love enemies to lovers, but, like, make them friends, and I'm there so much more than I was before.
00:36:12
Speaker
Probably because, well, I don't know. I don't need to psychoanalyze myself, but it's just, it's so fun. And I think forced proximity is, like, I almost wonder if it's it's almost like it's, it's like beyond
Forced Proximity in Narratives
00:36:26
Speaker
trope. It's just like necessity, right? Like,
00:36:30
Speaker
Because in some way, in any variation, they have to spend their time together, whether that's via emails virtually or whether that's like, you know, you're forced in the same space for so long.
00:36:42
Speaker
um And I just think it's so it's so good. And I I need someone to be in forced proximity with me right now. I need like, let's get started. um That's an Yeah.
00:36:54
Speaker
um yeah yeah there's so many good ones and there's so many i love a good microtrope where it's like i never would have thought that was a trope until i saw an author call it out um which is something i realized in my own writing was it was more like themes that i kept coming up against um for instance one of my main characters are always running whether they're actual runners or they're like me and they're just like oh man i hate to run but now i gotta and they're like thinking about it they're like why am i running so much um they just keep doing it I think it's they're all trying to escape their feelings which like I got it it is a really yeah ah funny as a writer when you look back over your books and what you write and you realize you
Tropes as Author's Brand
00:37:37
Speaker
go back to the same things I realized recently that in three out of my four books there's like a mentor mentee aspect and
00:37:51
Speaker
And i didn't realize that until ah long into the process of my fourth book. And I was like, someone's always teaching someone else here how to use magic. There's always this like, or I i do lots of kisses in greenhouses, apparently. i mean it's just like these things that that, you know, so a Rachel Griffin trope, I guess, is yeah is kissing in a greenhouse.
00:38:17
Speaker
It's just perfect. I mean, Who wouldn't want that in a book or, you know? Yeah, I, it's so fun the more, like, as I wrote more and more books, which I haven't published any of them, but I've written quite a few.
00:38:32
Speaker
and at first I was like, oh, no, I don't have a writer brand. I don't know who I am as a writer. And then I looked back and I was like, oh, yeah, no, there it is. I found myself. Yeah.
00:38:43
Speaker
And you don't see it right away. yeah And it's a great Yeah. Writing books is a great way to get to know yourself, I guess, because you can't really hide from whatever you're dealing with. It's so true.
00:38:55
Speaker
i my I wrote an adult novel, which was my first attempt at an adult romance. And I'm going along and i was like, this is so great. My like artist main character is dating a celebrity. Woohoo. So fun. And she just really wants to be successful. And she thinks that fame will cure her.
00:39:11
Speaker
And she's really ambitious. And she just wants to be, I'm writing about myself. And I was like, ah, crap. Now she's got to learn something that I haven't learned yet. oh that Yeah, I think it is really real. I never know what I'm writing about until the first draft is done. And i I'm like, oh, okay.
00:39:34
Speaker
Okay, good to know. going to drop that down for therapy too. but Yeah. Yeah. um Can you recommend a few of your favorite books within like that have like some of these tropes we've talked about?
Recommended Books with Tropes
00:39:50
Speaker
Yeah, I, I, well, we haven't talked about this, but I have to say The Love Hypothesis by Allie Hazelwood, because ah it's just such a delight. And that one is, and they is fake dating, which such an excellent trope. um ah And that one I listened to on audio, which was fantastic.
00:40:12
Speaker
um But it was just everything everything you want a romance. Like it's, I was laughing out loud and it, you know, it, it, I love romance because it feels like home. Like, cause you know, you're going to get that happy ending and and whether it's happily for now or happily ever after, like it's, it's, I find romance so comforting because of that.
00:40:36
Speaker
So um I loved the Love Hypothesis. If we're talking enemies to lovers, it's got to be The Cruel Prince for me by Holly Black. it's so Iconic. Yeah. Iconic. um ah I remember reading that book being so wildly obsessed with it.
00:40:56
Speaker
And just, and it it was really interesting because reading that it in the beginning, i was just like, there is absolutely no world in which I would ever want June to end up with. And then I don't even know when it happens, but a manly yeah yeah, it's just so enemies to lovers for me, it's going to be the cruel prince.
00:41:20
Speaker
And then, um, Another one I really love is Academic Rivals to Lovers. and for that, Rachel and Solomon's Today, Tonight, Tomorrow is just phenomenal.
00:41:33
Speaker
um yes And I think actually all of Rachel's books do tropes very, very well. um ah And ah and i remember just like giggling my way through Today, Tonight, Tomorrow. So those those are some of my favorites.
00:41:50
Speaker
Do you have any favorites from like the tropes we've talked about today? i do. I need to remember the books that I've read. My brain is like...
00:42:02
Speaker
Not in... Not thinking of books. Only thinking of tropes. There was... um I just read one of my friends who was actually, i guess, on this podcast. She wrote a young adult thriller with romance. It's called The Wild Trials by Mackenzie Reed. And there's... um let's just say like knife to throat moments.
00:42:24
Speaker
And I thought she did it so lovely. And I was like, I'm not even like, I'm not even big on that trope. I'm not even like, Ooh, I want to see the violence. like the threat But I just loved how she did that. Um, let me look at the books that have. Oh, I, and I love speaking of, um, there's gotta to be a fake dating book that I love.
00:42:46
Speaker
I think sometimes Fake dating slash forbidden love where like they're kind of like two sides of the same coin almost where you're like dating in secret versus not dating but you're really dating. um And so fake dating I think of um Danny Brown by Talia Hibbert.
00:43:06
Speaker
um i can't remember the rest of the title but it's uh the brown sisters it's an adult okay yeah it's an adult rom-com series and um they fake date and then for we're dating but we're doing it in secret the classic is my favorite which is just red white and royal blue which is so good my so you have that book and i'm like i'm not because i didn't write it but also i'm so good um And i was apologize for putting you on the spot because it is so true that as soon as someone asks you what your favorite books are you blank. And it says, if you've never read a single book in your entire life, I literally keep a Google document that I can access at all times for my favorite books, because ah it comes up it on almost every like panel or interview and
00:44:01
Speaker
And for some reason, when I'm said panel or interview, my brain stops working. So I always review my list before, right before I do the panel or whatever, so that I have them fresh in my mind because I have been, I've had too many where I'm like, listen, I know I've read a book before, but I can't. Yeah.
00:44:25
Speaker
Yeah. but that's And it's fair. I ask, I do so many author interviews and I always ask them like, what do you recommend? And it's fair for someone to finally turn the tables on me. so yeah um But I love that idea. I'm going to start. I do know that I use Storygraph to track my reading and then I have like a favorites shelf feature. so I'm like, oh maybe I just use that. And like every time you refresh your little homepage, it gives you five new books to look at. So it's always new. Oh, okay. Yeah.
00:44:52
Speaker
Fun. Fun tip. um And then finally, speaking of tips, hi hey um do you have any tips for writers who are writing so romance and they they want to bring in tropes, ah but they don't want to necessarily fall into the like, this book is just like trope on trope on trope on trope, and then it's got like a tiny little bit of like filament between it.
Integrating Tropes into Stories
00:45:17
Speaker
Like, how do you...
00:45:18
Speaker
bring in, build out, really relish in the tropes while still having a story that is like meaty on its own? So I, for me, the way I really do this, and we talked about this a little bit, that is using like an id list or things that make me really excited. Like when I wrote Wild, for example, that one, i didn't even realize that there's only one tent was basically there was only one bed.
00:45:48
Speaker
Until someone else pointed it out to me, because it just fits so perfectly in the book. And I knew I was writing toward like a forced proximity type of situation. So um I think, I think that when you know that you have certain things you'd love to explore,
00:46:08
Speaker
So i think, for example, with my third book, Bring Near Midnight, they are basically in a forbidden romance. That is a trope that I love. um and I when I was building out the plot for that that that book, I knew that like this romance was not something that they were able to do.
00:46:30
Speaker
to have like it was you know very off limits and so but I didn't build the book around that right like there has to be plot apparently right like my my agent has told me that books need thoughts and I'm like okay that's fine if you insist but So what I do is when I plot a book, I use beat sheets and I really make sure that I have a very solid plot that is not...
00:47:02
Speaker
ah really, I mean, trokes might show up in that plot, right? Like ah i'm writing a forbidding romance, but like when I was plotting out Bring Me Your Midnight, I didn't build up my plot with just forbidden romance, right? There's this whole magic system and there are these conflicts and what's going on with all of the characters. And so I really try and give myself a scaffolding of my world and my story. And then as I start like filling in the rooms and adding decorations, that's when I really pull those tropes that I love that I think would fit really well in the house that I'm building, to take that analogy too far. No, I love that.
00:47:44
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's very much like it's it's still, i guess what it sounds like I'm hearing is like, you have to come, writers have to come at a story, story first.
00:47:57
Speaker
and Yeah, and I think, I absolutely think a writer could start with, I want to write enemies to lovers. You can absolutely start there. For me, I tend to i tend not to start there. For me, I tend to have more, like, for the nature of witches, I wanted to write a book about a girl who changed with the seasons.
00:48:17
Speaker
There are absolutely tropes in that book, but those came later once I understood what tropes would serve the characters in the plot really well. So for me, those tend to come later. And I use them a lot because I love them as a reader. But first, I want to know the book that I'm telling. I want to know the story I'm telling.
00:48:39
Speaker
And then I'm inserting these things. But I absolutely think, especially in romance, where tropes are a big part of the conversation, i absolutely have friends who start out with, for my next book, I want to write a marriage of convenience.
00:48:56
Speaker
And then you still have to build out that plot in your characters and all of that. so yeah um I think it it, you know, people... what tropes they're going to use comes to them at different parts of the process.
Unique Storytelling with Characters
00:49:10
Speaker
That's fair. um But, you know, they're still like, even if it's the very first thing you know you want to write, you're going to build up this whole unique relationship and characters and and world. so And that's, I think, the beauty of, like, storytelling, specifically with, like, original fiction, like, you're creating the characters, is that you get to take...
00:49:34
Speaker
it' It's kind of almost like the opposite of fanfiction where you're taking like existing characters and then putting them in new situations here. It's like you're taking existing situations or frameworks and you're just you're creating the characters.
00:49:47
Speaker
And there's something really fun about that. Yeah. I've never written fan fiction, which means maybe I'm wrong about fan fiction being what I just said it was. But, like, I do think it it makes sense because for me, I was like, okay, well, you know, author XYZ wrote those characters.
00:50:01
Speaker
She can live with them. Like, I'm going to make my own characters. But I still want there to be these fun sort of touchstones that I'm familiar with already. But, like, because I'm crafting the crafting.
00:50:14
Speaker
Sorry. Yeah. Because I'm crafting the characters brand new. It's going to be slightly different. And it is going to be character-led. Like, tropes are going to look different with two women in a, like, sapphic relationship or, like, a man and a woman in a hetero relationship or one where they're both. by Like, they're going to look different depending on who the characters are beyond just identity and stuff. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:50:40
Speaker
Yeah. Absolutely. And I started, it's funny, the Sun and the Star Maker at my initial um pitch for it was actually like a pretty intense enemies to lovers and or like, you know, that was the dynamic of the main characters. and I started writing it and it just was not working for me. I wasn't excited about it.
00:51:03
Speaker
I, the dynamic, I just, I also felt like I, what i am not the right person to write a truly um ah satisfying enemies to lovers because I don't think I make It's hard for me to make the main care, the love interest like truly that awful. Like, it so I just i wasn't having k fun with it. And so and I knew it was the relationship dynamic that was bothering me.
00:51:31
Speaker
I really. really liked the world and everything else but I just when the two of them were on the page together it just was not working for me and so i you know had to take a step back and figure out what do I want their dynamic to be like who are these characters individually and what kind of dynamic is that going to create between them together um and so the book changed from like enemies to lovers to I don't even know what I would call it now. Like a very grouchy, but but like tired immortal um and a very stubborn mortal girl. And when that got me, that's perfect.
00:52:13
Speaker
So, you know, it's ah it's, we can have these tropes too, that we love as readers that for whatever reason, you know, maybe I'll go back to enemies to lovers at some point that, um, that dynamic was just not working for me at that, at that time when I was writing. so Yeah, and I think even like though the dynamic you shifted into with the like grouchy, immortal, stubborn, mortal, first of all, so good. Can't wait. um But it's it's very I can see the like faint shadows of like an enemies to lovers. like You could put them in an enemies to lovers situation, but if you're not feeling it, they can also just be like... a disgruntled guy who's over it and the stubborn mortal woman who keeps bothering him. I don't know what. yeah I know that's a pretty good yeah summation of it. Yeah.
00:53:06
Speaker
Perfect. um Oh, there was something else that I had thought. um It must not have mattered. um Is there anything else about tropes or about your upcoming book or just anything else that you would like to share before we wrap
Writing with Passion and Trends
00:53:23
Speaker
up?
00:53:23
Speaker
Yeah, I think for tropes, I'd say, i imagine ah there are a lot of writers who listen to this podcast. And I think i would say, and I'm taking this truly, like, this is why I recommend Jennifer Lynn Barnes's lecture on your it list so much. But like, write the things that you love.
00:53:41
Speaker
I think that so often, like, you know, the things that are popular or things that we love, we can almost be made to feel silly for and like, oh, my literature shouldn't have that.
00:53:54
Speaker
And no like you should be infusing your books with the things that you absolutely love. Like part of, part of writing is,
00:54:07
Speaker
It's just getting yourself excited, right? Like I am the first fan of the books that I write. Even like, so my upcoming release, The Sun and the Star Maker, I love that book so much.
00:54:22
Speaker
Just so much. Maybe no one else is going to love that book as much as I love it. And that's actually okay. Like I am okay with being my book's biggest fan. I would love it if there are other fans of this book. I don't want to be, i don't want to be in my books, like the only person who loves it, but we have to love our work before anyone else does. And so i think, you know, infuse with the things that you love, even if, you know, I once, um,
00:54:54
Speaker
In The Nature of Witches, the book initially did not have witches, which is really funny given that it's called The Nature of Witches. They were initially like magical. like They just had kind of this... like very subtle connection to the environment. And someone, ah and I was, it just wasn't working well with agents when I was querying the book. And so I stopped querying it and I completely rewrote the book and made them witches and instead and created a magic system for each season.
00:55:24
Speaker
and us And one of my friends said, but witches are so popular. Like, i don't I don't know if you want to do that. It doesn't like, that's not a unique thing right now.
00:55:36
Speaker
But it had me so excited that I was kind of like, I don't care. Like, witches are popular for a reason. and that was the book that ended up getting getting published. And so write what you love.
00:55:50
Speaker
Yes, I love that. I've been thinking about this a lot lately, especially in terms of, as the aforementioned, too much on threads. It's like every day I go on threads and I see, I'll be really excited that the book I'm working on has like a celebrity and a normal person. Well, and like a non-celebrity. And then I'll go on threads and I'll see their like...
00:56:08
Speaker
Everybody hates celebrity romances and nobody should write them and they're not telling. And I'm like, oh no, I need to change it. And then I've had this like sort of refrain that's like, don't write for your like worst reader. Don't write for your hater. Like write for the reader
Maintaining Creativity and Passion
00:56:21
Speaker
who's going to love it. Like write for, us I guess, yourself. Like if you love it, pursue it, go for it and just trust that there are readers out there because...
00:56:29
Speaker
there's a hater for everything. Like they're like, they're getting rid of first person every day. i swear they're getting rid of first person and single POV. And I'm like, well, that sucks for me. Well, and i you know, those, those takes are so common that, you know, but they're also creativity killers. Like i i I, never go on threads or, or any, like the only platform I'm on is Instagram, but I try to make sure too, that I'm not like,
00:56:59
Speaker
I don't want to see things like that, especially when I'm brainstorming and drafting, because it completely kills my creativity. Because I've had similar experiences where you go on and someone says, everybody hates this. Don't do it. and I'm like, oh, I love that. But you know what? The things, if I left something...
00:57:16
Speaker
The chances are that there are lots of other people out there who love it too. Like i the nature of witches really also just is a talks about how awesome the weather is because I think weather is really cool. It turns out there are so many of us who think weather is actually really, really cool.
00:57:36
Speaker
yeah So yeah, you've got to just, you have to be your biggest fan like of what you're writing. um and that means writing what you love. I love that. I feel so like fired up, ready to go. Like, let's write some good books. This is great.
Rachel Griffin's Social Media and Website
00:57:52
Speaker
um Can you tell people where to find you online, how to follow you and how best to support you and your books? Yeah. So you can find me online. I'm on Instagram at Times New Rachel. You can also find me just so at my website, rachelgriffinbooks.com. And I do have a newsletter that you can sign up for there, or it's also on Substack um and the same handle, Times New Rachel. um And yeah yeah, I have that my next releases coming out February.
00:58:26
Speaker
um it might be my favorite book I've ever written. i just absolutely love it. It's very special to me because I wrote it during a very, very hard time in my life.
00:58:37
Speaker
Um, and, uh, all of the pre-orders are supposed, are supporting a cause that I care deeply about. And so I'm just really excited for this release. And, um it comes out on February 17th. And speaking of tropes, if you like enchanted castles and endless winters and the grouchy immortals, then, um, beauty and the beast vibes, then, um, I think this book might be for you.