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What is Horromance? feat. Mackenzie Reed
36 Plays1 month ago
Welcome to the fifth episode of The Write Way of Life’s ~Romance Season~, in which hosts Karis Rogerson and A.D Jolietta chat with YA and adult author Mackenzie Reed about what happens when you combine horror and romance. Mackenzie’s upcoming I Hope This Email Finds You in Hell is a horromance with a side of paranormal, and we chatted about the genre-blend’s inspirations and roots, along with what an HEA looks like in a book tinged with horror. Also at the start of the episode there’s a big news drop from Karis 👀.
Find Mackenzie online. Make sure to follow her on Instagram (it’s a great time!) and order her books The Rosewood Hunt and The Wilde Trials.
The Write Way of Life is a craft-focused author interview podcast by Karis Rogerson & A.D Jolietta. Follow The Write Way of Life on Instagram or find us on our website. Follow Karis on Instagram and subscribe to her newsletter. Follow Adi on Instagram.
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Transcript
Introduction of Co-hosts and Podcast Theme
00:00:28
Speaker
Well, hello, dear listeners of the Right Way of Life podcast. This is Karis Rogerson. I'm one of your co-hosts. And I'm here tonight with the one and only...
00:00:39
Speaker
Joletta. Down straight. Cue applause. No, just kidding. I mean, i I snapped because I only have one hand. That's my news.
00:00:50
Speaker
No, just kidding. Can you... <unk> you have much better news than that the brain raccoons had a thought and that they took over for a second god no um yeah so the first thing we're gonna do is we're we're just gonna like situate ourselves in a place i'm calling in from brooklyn addie where are you at do you have news
Addie's Journey and Wellness Reflection
00:01:16
Speaker
I do. I'm calling in from Alaska, Homer, Alaska specifically.
00:01:20
Speaker
I just drove for the last seven days, is a 3,600 mile journey, and I moved ah moved to Alaska, moved back home. 30? Wow. Seven days. Wow.
00:01:31
Speaker
but So much driving. Did you need to like run a marathon when you got out of the car for the final time? like how How are you? oh i'm doing really well i made sure that i slept at least eight to ten hours a day i so i stayed in hotel rooms um i drank copious amounts of coffee as one does yeah and i don't you know i had some great murder podcasts that i listened to um during the trip just to like me so much braver than i am like i first of all if i were doing a cross-continent road trip by myself i'd be like
00:02:06
Speaker
scared and then you're throwing in like a true crime murder podcast i would have been so fucking paranoid i so the one the one listened to is buried bones which has this like ah like older detective investigator and he has like this deep soothing voice and i don't know what it was but i was like paul holmes you're you're gonna make sure that everything's okay as long as you're gonna protect you mean no i had a bat in my car for that um I was so scared for a second what weapon was going to come out of your mouth. Like, I was like, oh my God, it could be like a machete.
00:02:41
Speaker
Like, do they have like a mace? like no i No, I had to drive through Canada. They don't allow real weapons in, especially from Americans because they recognize that we're feral.
00:02:53
Speaker
um yeah ah Good for them. I wish that we also would not allow certain weapons in America. Yeah. in you No, the Canadians were very obsessed with the idea that I was somehow like smuggling in ah and a gun. And I was like, oh nope, nope, no, no gun in this car. Americans, eh?
00:03:18
Speaker
I can do that because I have Canadian blood. Yeah, you're you're a half Canadian. You
New Beginnings in Alaska
00:03:23
Speaker
got that Canadian passport. Well, no. But you could. I could.
00:03:29
Speaker
would take a long time and a lot of work because you need to have like guarantors. Like people that you know but who aren't your family but who've only known you for like ah longer than a certain amount of time but not this. It's wild. but Because I've never lived in Canada. Probably if I moved there I'd have an easier time getting a passport eventually.
00:03:47
Speaker
Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. yeah But yeah, that's my news. I'm in Alaska. Got a new job starting not this Monday. How do you feel about that? Like tomorrow?
00:03:58
Speaker
Yeah, tomorrow. Yeah, no, I'm so stoked. It's going to be I'm like, I'm really excited for this new phase of my life. We're gonna we're gonna I'm not settling down, but I'm like, no I'm chilling, you know?
00:04:11
Speaker
I'm excited for a phase of Addie's life where they don't work 75 hours a week on six different jobs and they actually have time to write. Yeah.
00:04:22
Speaker
I'm so stoked about that, too. Yeah. Because I feel like the past, like, four years that I've known you has just been, like, the most, speaking of feral, you just, like, come up in the middle of the night and you're like, i had a dream and I wrote a book about it and it's 3 And I was like, what the fuck?
00:04:41
Speaker
yeah It's been very, very run and ragged, very feral, not a lot of not a lot of brain space. Yeah. I'm excited to see see what you, your output.
00:04:54
Speaker
Yeah. I'm excited to see. i feel like I'm going to be like Taylor Swift during the pandemic, like when when there was nothing for her to do, you know, except. You're going to come out with folklore.
00:05:05
Speaker
Yes, that's my goal. that's Actually, one time I wrote a Medium post and it was called I Want to Be a Writer, like, too. It was on folklore. So, like, it's a high bar. no Yeah, yeah.
00:05:17
Speaker
Yeah, got to get there. I mean, like, I'm going to have the folklore aesthetic now that I live in Alaska. We got the flannels. We got the. So real. I do see the flannel. Yeah. Yeah. I did, unfortunately, ruin this flannel because I put it in the wash with, that with, yeah, ch Clorox and bleach. And I didn't get the color safe bleach.
00:05:36
Speaker
Oh, no. Just now flung it in with a bandit. Lucky mistake. Luckily, this is Alaska, which means that this shirt usually would be like, you can't wear that out in public, but I can i can wear this out in public.
00:05:50
Speaker
It's Alaska. Yeah. i Our fancy suit and tuxedo is jeans, a flannel, and maybe an overcoat. I would be so out of place there. I'd show up and I'd be like, okay, I'm wearing my sundress. And I'd be like, ma'am, we're in Alaska and it's December. And I'd be like, i have leggings and a cardigan. No, you would be flagged as a lower 48-er. Immediately.
00:06:16
Speaker
I do feel I give lower 48 vibes just in general. But that's okay. You know, we love you anyway. We accept you for who you are.
00:06:31
Speaker
I can't say it. You have some exciting news as well. Do I? I do.
Karis's Self-Publication Journey
00:06:40
Speaker
So, okay.
00:06:43
Speaker
I'm really excited about this news. And... Um, this is the first time I'm, like, saying it in a public space. Um, if you're listening to this between when it goes live and tomorrow at, like, 8.30 a.m. Eastern, which maybe you are if you're really...
00:07:03
Speaker
ah invested um you'll be the first to know but I am publishing a book i am self-publishing my young adult romance Nat and Cammie's Guide to Running an Undercover GSA and I'm doing it um with a lot of excitement and hope and I've written a whole little newsletter post about it being like you know I, there's a part of me that's like, ugh, people are going to be so disappointed by this news because it's not like a trad pub deal. And there's another part of me that's like, fuck it.
00:07:37
Speaker
This book, I've, this is me, this is me publicly hoping and like putting my faith in myself and my, my writing. And that feels really massive.
00:07:52
Speaker
So, yeah. Absolutely. Also, I feel like we've seen at least in the last five years, like self-publishing is a valid route to go. oh yeah. as As a writer. And honestly, as someone who has read a version of of this book, I'm really happy and excited to see that it's finally going to be out in the world because it's a damn good book.
00:08:15
Speaker
stoked. I really like, this book was on sub for almost two and a half years. Like, we gave it our best shot. We did everything we could to get it out there. And I just had this moment a couple weeks ago where I was like, what if I just ask my agent and if I can self-publish it? And so i sent him off, like, an email that was approximately three times longer than it needed to be, which is what I always do. I just, like, read a lot in my emails. My old boss used to be like, girl,
00:08:46
Speaker
cut it down. And I was like, no, I'm verbose. um And he just wrote back and he was like, you know what? Let's go for it. Like, do it. And um and i got really excited and I started working on a cover and I've been doing research into, like, how to get it into indie bookstores and,
00:09:04
Speaker
how to make sure that like it's accessible to teens. And for that, I'm looking at things like, you know, putting it potentially in Kindle Unlimited so that teens with ah Kindle Unlimited or Prime you know, whatever, if the family has it, they can access it.
00:09:19
Speaker
Or making like the paperback, like, you know, $10 paperbacks. the one The one Trump voter said they were coming and I'm here to deliver.
00:09:30
Speaker
You're going to make something that Donald Trump says come true, Karis. No, no, it was a voter. It was like a book to a girl. And she was like, I voted for Trump so that $10 paperbacks come back. And everyone was like, girl, where?
00:09:42
Speaker
We're up at like $14, $15. But I'm thinking I'm going to try and keep it like at a price that someone could like, you know, you have $15 in your pocket, you can buy the book.
00:09:55
Speaker
So you have a $20, you can buy the book and a sticker. Go support your indie bookstores. um I've already spoken to one or two of them and I'm like figuring out how I can do this.
00:10:09
Speaker
And also I'm planning a a fucking book tour, which is ridiculous. Because like with what publisher's money, Karis? Yeah, I feel really... I have felt this like...
00:10:21
Speaker
Okay, not to get way too personal, but I was in therapy and I was telling my therapist about this. She's very proud of me, by the way. We live for that. um And I said, was like, I don't think I could have made this decision even a year ago, even six months ago, really.
Personal Growth and Therapy
00:10:37
Speaker
Like, I think that i did not have faith in myself and I didn't have the, I didn't have the ability How to say this? I have been working on collecting tools and like coping mechanisms for a decade now.
00:10:54
Speaker
But for the longest time, i couldn't really access them because so much of my life was just survival mode. It was like all of my energy went to just stay alive.
00:11:06
Speaker
And that was the bare minimum that I could get done. And that was a fucking really good day. And so thanks in part a lot. And thanks to the ketamine therapy that I was able to do this summer. Thanks to people in my community who, um, donated to my GoFundMe. Like I have found myself with, with like room in my brain almost,
00:11:29
Speaker
To be like, when the darkness comes, when the depression starts to, like, slide in, I can be like, oh, yes, no, I and i know how to deal with this. Right? And so in that space, there was room to find... There was room to find positive feelings about myself, which I haven't had in a long time. And there was room to find um courage and, like, strength.
00:11:51
Speaker
And the... And the knowledge that, like, I can do this and I can i can give it my best shot. And I know how to do everything that is in my power to set the book up for success. And then it's up to fate and luck and the wins of the economy, right? Like, it's out of my hands. But I know that I have the abilities and the... And the and I also know that, like...
00:12:21
Speaker
People are going to show up for me as best they can in whatever way they can because they've shown up for me all year. And God, I'm about to start crying. I don't know. It's just really special to like, it feels like I've woken up from like a five year sleep and I'm like, oh, I'm not alone. That's really cool.
00:12:41
Speaker
That's really awesome. I'm really proud of you, Karis. And I'm like, you're, you're betting on yourself and you're doing such a brave thing. um And you're just, you're, I feel like you're going to kick ass. You're going to do great.
00:12:52
Speaker
You got this. You're going to make me cry even more. ah all the crying. Okay. Before we move on. Yeah. Give me the elevator pitch for one needs to buy this book.
00:13:06
Speaker
Okay. Nat and Cammie's Guide to Writing an Undercover GSA out June 23rd, 2026. There will be a link live on my website. Obviously.
00:13:17
Speaker
And Nat and Cammie's Guide to Writing an Undercover GSA follows two teenagers at a conservative missionary boarding school in Italy. who come together over insomniac nights in a bathroom and they concoct a mildly harebrained plan to start an undercover genders and sexualities alliance or a GSA to help the other teens who are queer out and or not out or allies who feel alone and
00:13:52
Speaker
The last line of the bill is they don't expect so many kids to find a home with them. And they certainly don't expect to fall in love.
00:14:01
Speaker
and
00:14:04
Speaker
So nice excited. So excited for June. You're releasing it during Pride Month, of course. And I was like torn between June 9th and June 23rd. And I was asking a friend and my they go, well, would you rather the book be a Gemini or a Cancer? And I was like, wow, great question. I don't know. You tell me you're reading it. And they said, I think the book's a Cancer.
00:14:23
Speaker
eats a ja cancer vibes hell yeah hell yeah as a fellow cancer uh yeah although i'm a july cancer which is different than a june cancer Well, obviously.
00:14:36
Speaker
Just like a May Taurus is different from an April Taurus. Yes. In ways I cannot define because I barely know what it is to be a Taurus.
Impact of Government Shutdown on SNAP Benefits
00:14:47
Speaker
Speaking of being, when are we? I thought you were going to be like speaking of tortoises, a.k.a. Mitch McConnell, a.k.a. the Senate. Oh, that would have been good.
00:14:59
Speaker
no um It's November nine twenty twenty five 2025 and if you're not listening to this like in then and then in the week after like to set the scene it is day 40 of the government shutdown the longest government shutdown in history um just barely beat out trump's last government shutdown or like a government shutdown during his last whatever it was no let's call it trump's shutdown is his shutdown and Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:15:28
Speaker
um I just didn't know if it was the latest one. Yeah. It's is a Trump shutdown and it's longer. The second longest shutdown is also a Trump shutdown. So, like, what are we doing here?
00:15:41
Speaker
And it's gotten to the point where um SNAP benefits are not... out. Like, people aren't getting their money and then their judges are saying you have to get the money and then other justices are saying you can wait another minute or two. so Yeah, half of half of the SNAP funding has gone out.
00:16:01
Speaker
ah And then the question is if the other half can go out. um Currently, it is been it is in the lower court, ah the epaulette court, to decide that.
00:16:12
Speaker
Some states, shout out to Governor Evers of Wisconsin, um have... Fully... I mean, what I saw on threads was that, like, they overdrafted the account that Snap Benefits are supposed to be pulled from um because there was a brief window where a full Snap Benefits were approved. And honestly, I love that energy, right?
00:16:34
Speaker
Like, they were ready to charge things. Ask for forgiveness, not permission. Yeah. They're like, it's going to be legal for six minutes and we're going to withdraw it in that six minutes, baby. It's giving...
00:16:49
Speaker
ah trying to sign up for a very, very popular college class and you know that you have to be there right at 8 a.m. you're not going to get it. But, yeah, so SNAP benefits
Effects of Shutdown on Federal Workers
00:16:59
Speaker
are... People are...
00:17:01
Speaker
People are going without paychecks, which I, I mean, I live paycheck to paycheck. If I lost one paycheck, I'd be screwed. And so people ranging from, you know, federal employees, TSA agents are working without pay.
00:17:14
Speaker
um The air traffic controllers are often and calling in sick without pay and taking up second jobs. So flights are of a wreck, you know, like,
00:17:26
Speaker
it's um but The government is shut down and it's been shut down for over a month. Like, it's chaotic. And it's awful. Turns out, cares we need a functioning government. Who knew?
00:17:39
Speaker
Not anyone in the government, clearly. So today, um and one of the reasons for the shutdown is Democrats have drawn a line in the sand and they have said, hey listen, you can't, you have to continue the Affordable Care Act like expansion like you have to make sure that people their premiums for their health care don't go up by exorbitant numbers in 2020. 200% for some folks.
00:18:06
Speaker
Yeah, which is on heart like unbelievable. Because it's already so expensive. What are we doing with healthcare in this country? And so the Democrats drew that line in the sand.
00:18:18
Speaker
And then today the news comes out and they're theyre like, oh, well, the Republicans said that they'll they'll put it in later. ah Or that's my understanding.
00:18:28
Speaker
They'll vote on putting it in later. So it's a pinky promise. I also think, and I've seen this sentiment um in terms of the shutdown, I've seen the sentiment online a lot today of, you know, this week specifically showed that change is possible and that we can elect progressives.
00:18:51
Speaker
And that not giving up on... but and That there is value in holding to your... um
00:19:04
Speaker
standards, I guess. Like, Yeah, I think what we saw here is that the electorate rewards honesty and folks who say what their policy positions are going to be.
00:19:17
Speaker
Right. Like we saw we saw Democrats sweep in places that they haven't swept like ever. And it was a wide range of candidates. Right. Like we have Zora Mamdami in New York, who is a are you a leftist populist? Right.
00:19:32
Speaker
But then we also saw the governor of Virginia is a relatively like moderate liberal same in New Jersey um and I'm not necessarily sure on the politics of the folks who won their seats in the like Mississippi think assemblies what we in Georgia right yeah there there were things in Georgia and then in Mississippi they broke the super majority so they didn't So true. Yeah. Yeah. And that has like never happened. And so I don't know. I don't know what their their exact like political leanings are. But like, it's one those things where I'm like, ah we do need a big tent. But I think the unifying thing of within that big tent is like folks are not they're being honest about what their positions are.
00:20:14
Speaker
And they're running on genuine policy positions, right? They're not just saying don't vote for us because we have Republicans. They're saying vote for me because I want free buses, because I want to do all these things. Like, I think also the electorate is smarter enough to recognize that, like, those are policy positions that you're running on They're not guarantees, but they're guiding lights.
00:20:36
Speaker
hey And yeah, and yeah. Yeah, that's my contribution to that statement. I just, yeah. Yeah. I, for all we know, by the time this episode comes out in like six hours, ah who knows what will happen.
00:20:55
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, like, I don't know. I don't know. I'm like refreshing threads. Fair enough. Yeah. And it's just, got booted off threads on my computer because I spent too much time on social media today. Oh Yeah. So that's my problem. I can't do timers because I'm the person who knows the password to overread the timers.
00:21:14
Speaker
Well, see, here's the thing. I tried to overwrite it, but this website is, like, very mean. Oh. Actually, don't tell me about it. I feel like I'll just throw my computer and break it if i if it doesn't let me do what I want.
00:21:28
Speaker
Fair enough. um So this episode is, as you can tell from the title, Horromantasy.
Introduction to Mackenzie Reed and Her Work
00:21:34
Speaker
We spoke with Mackenzie Reed. She is amazing. Buy her books. The Rosewood Hunt and The Wild Trials are out now.
00:21:40
Speaker
I hope this email finds you in hell, which is a brilliant title out next year. Mackenzie Reed is the author of books with heart, humor, and hijinks. She has a communication and media degree from Nazareth College and unironically enjoys long walks on the beach.
00:21:56
Speaker
Her young adult novels The Rosewood Hunt and The Wild Trials are out now with HarperCollins. Her third, Worse Than the Others, is coming in 2026, and her forthcoming adult debut, I Hope This Email Finds You in Hell, will be released with Berkeley Penguin Random House.
00:22:12
Speaker
All right, everyone. We're back with the Right Way of Life podcast. I'm here with Addie and our guests for today, the one and only Mackenzie Reed. Hello, Mackenzie. hope you're well. If you don't mind, can you introduce yourself, talk about your books and talk about your ah connection to horror romance or horror romance as a genre?
00:22:32
Speaker
Hi everyone! I'm Mackenzie. I'm an author of young adult fiction and recently now adult fiction as well. I have two young adult books currently out with HarperCollins.
00:22:45
Speaker
They are both young adult thrillers. um The Rosewood Hunt came out two years ago And The Wild Trials came out several months ago. And I actually have two more young adults coming out, both thrillers, that the first of which is worse than the others.
00:23:00
Speaker
So that's what I'm currently working on in that department. But I'm really excited because my first horror romance, romantic-y adult debut titled I Hope This Email Finds You in Hell is coming out with Berkeley Penguin Random House literally like a year from now, maybe even less at this point.
00:23:20
Speaker
So I'm really excited for that one because it's been such a romp to write. It's about a receptionist who catches her hot boss performing an exorcism and horror. powers, discovers he's a monster hunter, and convinces him to let her join on a recon mission through hell to save their favorite co-worker, the world, and like maybe fall in love. So that's what I'm currently working on.
00:23:46
Speaker
I love a maybe fall in love romp through hell. um Obsessed with the fact that the boss is just like her hot boss. Like, go off. I love it.
00:23:58
Speaker
Thank you Yeah, he's a little uptight too, but I mean, understandable since we find out there is a demon at work with her. Yeah, yeah, probably. no But thank you guys so much for having me on.
00:24:11
Speaker
I'm so excited. Of course. I'm so excited to chat about this um genre mashup, mostly because I don't know too much about horror, but I do know a lot about romance, or at least I like to think so.
00:24:23
Speaker
But before we dive in with like deeper questions, can we just get like a quick and dirty sort of definition? What is horror romance? What is horror romance? Like, what is this beast?
00:24:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, great question. and It's something I'm even starting to discover because in truth, when I started writing, i hope this email finds you in hell, I don't think I
Exploring Horror Romance Genre
00:24:45
Speaker
realized it was horror. And I think that's so funny of me because I do think the idea of getting on a train in Times Square and ending up in the underworld is like inherently horrific.
00:24:58
Speaker
And then it's full of like monsters and demons and they're hunting you too. um So I think horror can take so many shapes, but I think something I'm growing to really appreciate about horror is there's often like this other underside commentary to it.
00:25:13
Speaker
And I know for, I hope this email finds you in hell specifically, like one of the kind of through lines about hell is the capitalistic nature of it because even monsters go to work and And hell is completely like corporatized.
00:25:30
Speaker
um And like the devils are the CEOs. And it was a really fun structure to play with. And also, again, kind of horrific, the thought that you could be in hell and still have to go to work.
00:25:43
Speaker
So why did you say that? know, I'm scared. I know. Well, thankfully, hopefully none of us will end up there, but at least not my version of it. But yeah, through like learning more about horror and I'm realizing all the different shapes it can take. And obviously there's like gory horror and there's um like suspenseful horror. And i think Email in Hell is almost like there's this almost like rom-com edge to it, like comedic horror or like horror comedy.
00:26:15
Speaker
So it was really fun getting to discover that story. edge of it that's like a little campy almost and I hope people come to appreciate it and that the like horror diehards aren't like hey like what are you doing here Yeah, and I think um there's something very fun and fun about the campy kind of horror. Like, I think of there there's... I can think of, like, the few horrors that I've read tend to fall into that sort of realm um or more, like, romance-focused because I'm a girl I love to laugh and I love love. Like, what else?
00:26:52
Speaker
Ready, great. Same. um But this is sort of you mentioning the, like... underside of horror that's like that's I guess more sort of what's the word I'm looking for it's like a cultural commentary almost that brings up my question which is like what do you think inspired culturally societally bibliographically like what do you think inspired people to start putting together horror storylines with like a romance storyline like why do why are we doing this and not just like in this moment but like why why ever have we done this
00:27:28
Speaker
I think at least how I view it. So for me, just feel like I will always write romance. It does not matter what other genre I'm putting with it.
00:27:39
Speaker
Like, I love it. I'm like, you cares? Like, I love romance. So it's going to be in there somehow. It's in my thriller books. It's in this one. It's in the distant fantasy projects I like wistfully glance out at every now and then.
00:27:54
Speaker
But I think one of the reasons, at least I love romance so much, is the hope in it. And that it's giving you, it's like actively giving you something to root for.
00:28:06
Speaker
And I also really like the romance novel conventions of when you read a romance book a lot of times, you can like usually bank on there being a happy ever after.
00:28:17
Speaker
Of course, not always, but most of the times that's like one of the genre conventions of it. And as a reader, I personally love that because like I'm not a sad ending person. So when it came to writing a horror book, um like I said, I kind of did it accidentally, but I will say that putting romance in it kind of felt like a no brainer because it's like, yes, they are on this, you know,
00:28:44
Speaker
horrific journey through hell. And like, yes, they're being hunted, but they're also falling in love. And having that to almost, you know, i don't want to say it minimizes the intensity and direness of their situation, but I do think it kind of gives both characters a soft place to land as they grow with each other over the course of the novel.
00:29:10
Speaker
And i imagine it might be similar for any other horror book as well, where it's like, yeah, there are these like really disturbing things going on. And I think especially the horror that is like a cultural commentary, i think some of that is almost a means to deal with real life horror that's going on. It's almost like let's make a fake one instead so we can just like escape into that one and then there's also romance and adventure in this one and like if you have to choose between two i would take the one with romance and adventure any day so it's almost like the romance it doesn't cancel out the horror elements but it almost like tempers them yeah get um you said it so much better than me in so many fewer words yeah
00:29:57
Speaker
No, no. You said it amazingly. um But because one of the questions I'm going to skip ahead to a question I was going to ask later, but which is like when you're writing a um like a horror and a romance. So we we on the pod, we believe in the HEA is like necessary for romance. So like you got to have it.
00:30:17
Speaker
yeah So my thought is like in a horror romance, like um how do you maintain the tension Because i when I think of horror or ah genres that are similar, like meant to tur unsettle or terrify or something like that, like I think of like high tension, high sort of instability, like emotional instability, narrative instability almost.
00:30:40
Speaker
So how do you maintain that in a mashup where you know there's going to be an HEA? Or a happily ever after, sorry. Yeah. That's a great question. i think... Even knowing that there's a happily ever after, i think there's still, like, a will-they-won't-they component to it.
00:30:59
Speaker
um At least in mine, because I would say it falls under, like, slow burn romance. But I also think it's kind of like the journey of it. And when they're going through these adventures and these, like, near-death experiences, and you know they're keeping secrets from each other, too even if there's a thing in the back of your mind that is like, okay, well, like, this should end happily, think there's a lot of reasons why you start to question that and be like, is it actually going to? Like, are they actually going to get out of their situation?
00:31:33
Speaker
Are they actually going to come clean about these things? And especially in this book, it was so fun creating these, like, road stops in hell that really tried them on so many levels and like the stops themselves were pretty fun but like you know added like action and adventure and all my favorite things so even though the romance is like this developing thing at the end of the day i almost I almost advise people to be along for the journey and the flowering friendship even more than anything because I love a book
00:32:11
Speaker
with friendship and where like a relationship comes out of dire circumstances and I think that's kind of one of the reasons we keep reading is because we want to see things work out and we want to see them work out how we hope they'll work out Yeah, and there's something to be said about the skill that it takes for a writer, right? to like it is ah it's a It's a skill, not a skill issue, because that sounds like I'm being salty or sarcastic, but like it's a it's a matter of skill to be able to say, i give you a story where you know the shape of the ending, and I'm still going to make you sweat, and I'm going to make you stress, and I'm going to make you wonder and doubt. Like, is this going to happen?
00:32:53
Speaker
So what are some... I guess like do you have any sort of practical tips for maintaining high tension in a horror romance or horror romance specifically you with where it's like you're trying to balance that sort of like unsettledness with the romance like how what are some some practical craft tips you might have?
00:33:14
Speaker
Yeah, a few things. And I'll be honest, I think some of these I'm carrying over from wrote writing thrillers. And I think that gave me a really great foundation. But one thing is a secret
Techniques for Tension in Horror Romance
00:33:25
Speaker
component.
00:33:25
Speaker
Like someone has to be keeping a secret and we like can't, the reader shouldn't know what it is, but they should know there's something happening there that like, and then again, it's and question of like, how is this going to come out? What is the secret? What? And there are all these things that not only keep the main character wondering what's going on, but the reader.
00:33:47
Speaker
So I love A Secret because you can always plant little like foreshadowing tidbits that I think as a reader myself, I eat those up. And especially when I miss them, I love going back on a reread and being like, oh, this author got me.
00:34:04
Speaker
So as an author, it's always my hope. Like I get someone. And another one that I find to be a really great plot device, not just for like increasing tension, but also to help with pacing is I use what's called like a ticking like time plot.
00:34:22
Speaker
type of thing. And basically, it's them realizing that we have to do this thing in X amount of time. Otherwise, it's all over. um And there's a few of those in email in hell. But one of the most prominent ones that's established really early on is the longer you spend in hell, the less likely you are to ever leave.
00:34:45
Speaker
So there's like this inherent... ticking clock to their rescue mission where it's like they don't just need to hurry because the person they're rescuing is in danger. Their very souls are in danger. And i thought that was really fun too to play with because again from like a romance angle too...
00:35:05
Speaker
it's a lot of them like checking on each other and like, you know, basically being like, are we still humans? And, you know, having, and I think love is such a human thing.
00:35:17
Speaker
um And that is also expanded on a bit in the book, like no spoilers, but so I really felt that that time pressure worked wonders and like causing tension just in the situation in general.
00:35:34
Speaker
I think you're so right. There's something so fun about that concept of like, well, whoa, I had so many thoughts that I lost the first one. Wow.
00:35:45
Speaker
um But no, I really love the idea of like love is something that is human and like helps maybe it it sort of helps gauge where you are in your humanity if you're in a situation where you're like in danger of losing your soul. Awesome.
00:35:58
Speaker
I also think one thing that is something that i heard for the first time on a podcast, I think, was like, and something that I'm pretty sure my agent has also said, um because I tend to be like, you know, here's the stake. The stake is if we don't save this person, then they're going to die. And I'm like, that's enough stakes.
00:36:16
Speaker
And the the what you mentioned about how their own souls are at stake reminded me that, like, you often need that personal um that personal fear as well that like, OK, so you have to save someone. But what what happens if you don't like, OK, they might their soul might be lost forever.
00:36:35
Speaker
But what's going to happen to you? Like is because you can't just rely on like your guilt or your sense of failure as a as a propulsion when it gets really hard. So you have to have that like, okay, I need to complete this task to free myself from XYZ kind of thing.
00:36:50
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah. And that's super crucial to remember, especially when you're writing um such high emotion genres as like horror is and romances. And especially when you throw the two of them together, like they're very, they both feel very like high, ah high in emotion, high in feeling, high in like,
00:37:10
Speaker
Yeah, all of that. Yeah, totally. And I think, too, something that really helps with the, like, building romantic tension is having two characters who, like, start off thinking they're very different.
00:37:23
Speaker
and then over the course of their journey, they're like, wait, we have, like, so much in common, like not just physical chemistry. There's like so much like emotional chemistry too.
00:37:33
Speaker
And that's something my editors really helped me with because I didn't have that all at first. It was like much more on the, you know, physically like written side.
00:37:45
Speaker
And it's so delicious to like pull out some of the more emotional aspects that like draw taught throughout the book. And such a reminder that having an editor or if you don't have an editor, just a beta reader or someone to look at it editorially like outside of yourself is so crucial to writing the strongest book possible because I mean, I've had readers or my agent point out things that I wasn't aware of. and the the second I started intentionally trying to pull in things like that, like emotional um compatibility kind of thing, like it just levels the book up to a whole new yeah ah sphere. Yeah.
00:38:25
Speaker
And it's something that really doesn't happen in like a first or even a second draft. Like I can't emphasize how many drafts of this book have gone through me, gone through my editors, my agent, my friends even.
00:38:38
Speaker
um And i think it's such an ode to like realize now that I'm drafting a new book now, I find myself growing frustrated knowing like it's missing all these components. But I think it's so important to realize that like these are all layers that get stacked as you go yeah nothing worse than going from a polished book to a first draft and you're like it's not doing what it needs to be doing i feel like I've never walked before like I can't believe I've written a bunch of books like not even just the one but it's like it doesn't matter like every new book is different
00:39:17
Speaker
Which is both. It can be a little like sometimes if I'm in the wrong headspace and someone says like every book is just, you know, start over. It's brand new hard. I'm like, that's horrible. If I'm in the right headspace, it's like that's exciting.
00:39:28
Speaker
It's a brand new project. It's a brand new like i learn new things. I put in new processes like it's very exciting. Yeah, and I'm starting to really see the beauty of it and the growth because it's like, yes, it's very daunting, but like my newest project, I just hit 20,000 words on it and it came exactly at the end of Act 1.
00:39:51
Speaker
And I can tell you, i have never in my life been on track for a word count. Like I'm an overwriter. so to be like, wow, this is the 12th book I've written and I finally seem to be sticking to a word count for now I'm like, is this grope?
00:40:07
Speaker
This grope? That's so funny because I just finished act one of my four acts and it was about like 22k. And I have never written like ah a long enough first draft. And so I feel like I'm finally getting to the point where I'm writing a long enough first draft and it's well so exciting.
00:40:23
Speaker
I usually, my first drafts are usually like 100,000 words and I weep because they should not. Never has I ever crossed the 100k mark in a novel. Like never.
00:40:34
Speaker
oh but But going back a little bit, sort of like backpedaling to back to like the the genre mashup of it all and the like basics. Do you have an opinion on like when you're reading a horror romance, horror romance, however you want to call it?
00:40:51
Speaker
Do you want the horror to be them the more, I guess, weighty genre? Do you want the romance? do you want them to be equally weighted? Like how do you kind of view if it's falling into this being called a horror romance? Like how do you want them ratioed to each other?
00:41:08
Speaker
Yeah, this question is great and so timely because what's interesting is like this is kind of all in the marketing, which I'm discovering.
00:41:19
Speaker
um Because when I wrote it, I definitely felt like they were very equal. i think that, like I said, with it being a little bit more of a slow burn romance, like you're definitely in it more for the journey.
00:41:33
Speaker
um But with it being horror, it again, has, like, a lot of the, like, campy elements and almost, like, a little bit of, like, a rom-com vibe, as I mentioned earlier.
00:41:45
Speaker
and I think it is that, like, slight... ah I don't know. i don't want to say like lighthearted vibe because I don't think that's what makes something more romance forward.
00:41:57
Speaker
But I do think that vibe comes from the main relationship. And because of that, I would say it's weighted just a little bit more the romance end.
00:42:09
Speaker
So my hope is that it like appeals to all readers but I definitely when I think about like a romance reader picking it up I'm so hopeful they feel fulfilled by the story and you know feel that Brie and Luke who are the main characters are characters to root for Okay. So almost like for you, because your main couple is more on the like rom-com-y side, it's got like that lightness. What if it were more of like a dramatic couple?
00:42:39
Speaker
It might be more like feel different, but it's still like the couple and their dynamic that's sort of driving the tone. Yeah, it's so, I don't know, it's so hard because when you put it like that, I'm like, hmm, I don't know.
00:42:53
Speaker
what I guess I would just say it is romance forward because that is kind of the main arc. I mean, there's definitely like other journeys or characters are going on, but...
00:43:05
Speaker
That is the main arc. And this is where the genre stuff gets kind of funky and why it skews a little bit toward romanticy, in my opinion, because they're on quest.
Genre Conventions in Horror Romance
00:43:18
Speaker
So the quest aspect definitely, to me... gives a little bit more of like a fantasy edge but then it's like the setting is more horror so I think why I'm going with romance first is because it is so many other things but it is always romance you know what I mean like I feel like the other aspects can be debatable almost but like you can't debate that there's romance in it Speaking of the romance aspect, I think, and we've sort of talked on this a little bit, but just just to be clear to our audience, you definitely think that a horror romance has to have an HEA. Like, you can't write a horror romance without that.
00:43:58
Speaker
Like, you can push the bounds, but... I personally think so. i just feel like anything with... I think... i du I don't know. Maybe this is just me. But like I said, like one of the things I love about picking up a romance book is expecting um a happy ever after. And one of the things that I talked about extensively with my editors was like making sure we're not letting down readers by like not following romance conventions. So at least in my experience with writing horror romance, I felt like
00:44:35
Speaker
it was okay to adhere to that expectation and I as a reader I think that would be my preference too I'm not saying I'd be disappointed if I picked one up and it wasn't a happy ending but um but yeah I don't know i maybe just as the new kid on the block I'm like oh I can't like break the rules not yet at least um Okay.
00:44:58
Speaker
So as I was coming up with these questions and I was like, horror, romance, horror, romance, romance, my brain was like, gothic. um And so I wondered like, and it this is just a curiosity question of like, where, like, what,
00:45:15
Speaker
Why does gothic romance fall under the like horror horror romance? like Is it part of that? like what What is a parent genre? like what are What are your thoughts on the matter? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Great question. i think to me, like gothic romance would fall under... I guess it depends on content, but I'd say it falls like skews towards the horror angle.
00:45:39
Speaker
um and And so funny. I really never... thought about it like that but I and I haven't really i can't even think of any recent gothic romances I've read but again i think that like something we were talking about earlier is I kind of said that it was like the lightness between my couple that makes a romance and I actually disagree with that because I think you can absolutely have a dark book with like ah you know, a more dramatic couple and that would still count as romance. And I guess that's where I think gothic romance might fall because I feel like there's this edge of like drama to it.
00:46:21
Speaker
And while do think like I hope this email finds you in hell has quite a bit of drama, um hell is unfortunately made up of skyscrapers. So it doesn't quite have the beautiful gothic architecture we would think of with a gothic romance.
00:46:39
Speaker
Yeah, and that's, it's so interesting to think of like, within ah genre, and within a genre that's a genre mashup, like, there are so many sub flowerings of different ways to write it, right? Like, you wrote yours as, like, a horror rom-com. Someone else could have written it as, like, a horror romantic drama, right? Like... Absolutely. Someone else could write it as... I'm running out of words to describe things. But, you know, like, there's so many ways to write it and to sort of... You can still hit those those important beats, right? Like, in um our first...
00:47:13
Speaker
Well, in our second and third episodes of this season, we've talked about like the romance genre sort of requirements, which are HGA and the central love story. And like you, but that's all you need to write a romance. And you can go absolutely ah wild in the tropes, in the yeah other genres, in just whatever else you want to put into your romance, as long as it follows those two sort of guiding lines.
00:47:37
Speaker
So that's, yeah. And also I'm thinking of like, someone else could have taken this concept and been like, hell is, you know, ah bunch of Gothic manors on the Scottish, in the Scottish Highlands. like Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. i think it all comes from to like, where is your inspiration coming from?
Media Inspirations for Writing Style
00:47:56
Speaker
Like, so much of i Hope This Email Finds You In Hell was very inspired by Supernatural and Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
00:48:08
Speaker
and I feel like anyone who, like, watched that media, it's it's so strange because it's, like, not a rom-com, but there's such, like, a comedic edge to even the, like, Supernatural and just, like, how the characters talk.
00:48:25
Speaker
um And like almost like a nostalgic edge. And then another big inspiration too was um Percy Jackson. And I feel like I write my main characters and that like first person present.
00:48:40
Speaker
And I think sometimes um we can like alter... a little bit what the genre would be just based off the tone of how our main character narrates the story and I think because I'm always in that like first person like stream of consciousness type of style that's where it can get more of like a comedic edge but like you so mentioned with like more of a dramatic edge is having a main character that is a little bit more of a drama queen like
00:49:11
Speaker
You know, really can depend on so many factors. And, like, setting, of course, plays a huge role in it as well. And, um you know, just in this book, there's demons and monsters. And they're, again, like, kind of campy. But then I think the more, like, horror side of it would be if they were, like...
00:49:32
Speaker
demons and monsters you know what I mean like you're as bolded demons yeah and that would also like buy into kind of a darker romance uh you know I think of like dark fantasy and dark romance and kind of those different lines too I think of, but um speaking of voice and point of view, i think of our friend Olivia, who is the first person that ever I realized, like, voice is not just, like, campy humor, over the top, whatever, which is how I always wrote. I wrote in first person, and I wrote, like, very, like, teenage, like, YA voices. And then I read something Olivia had written, and i was like, this is so voicey, but it's so different than my voicey.
00:50:14
Speaker
And it's interesting. And it really got me thinking about like, how do you do like a dramatic voice? How do you do like a melancholy voice? Because those are just as valid. They're just as voicy. They're just a different vibe than my like, oh, it's blah, blah, blah, you know, whatever. Right. No, I'm with you.
00:50:32
Speaker
I'm with you. And I think it comes down to sometimes to like, um I draw so much influence and inspiration by, like I said, the types of media I consume.
00:50:43
Speaker
But I think... I think sometimes, like, again, like, consuming more things with voices like that. And um I know what you're talking about with Olivia.
00:50:55
Speaker
i also so just am like, who is this character and what do they want? And how do they talk? Like, what's their situation? How'd they grow up? And there's really so much work, like, off the page that goes into how a character, like, narrates the story, if that makes sense. Mm-hmm.
00:51:12
Speaker
and Oh, 100%. Totally. um Let's see Can you recommend some favorite books of yours that fall into this like um out or upcoming that fall into this genre blend?
Recommended Horror Romance Authors
00:51:31
Speaker
Yeah, I've actually, i'm a really big Rachel Harrison fan and her new book Play Nice just came out. um But I haven't read that one yet, but I did really enjoy it so Thirsty.
00:51:43
Speaker
i felt like that was just like a very delicious like horror romance, I would say. um and I love her books too because they're categorized as like feminist horror.
00:51:56
Speaker
um so again, with that like cultural commentary that we tend to see with horror. um and and another horror romance author who has been an inspiration to me is my friend Skyla Arndt.
00:52:09
Speaker
Her book House of Hearts just came out. And yeah, it's delightful. I mean, the idea that like um it's built around this school and this family curse and basically the boy who falls in love uh he's destined to kill the girl he loves and like I love that and I think that's another kind of horror convention is this kind of um like faded love if that makes sense and I think what's so sweet about pairing it with romance is again you like in the back of your mind you're like this should end happily but like while you're reading you're like i don't know if this is gonna end happily
00:52:51
Speaker
Um, so yeah, those are kind of two recent books that I've been really enjoying. Very nice. And what about who are some of your favorite characters um from romances doesn't have to be like a horror romance, but just like a favorite romance character that you're like, this is the one.
00:53:12
Speaker
Oh my gosh. Well, I will say two characters I love because I'm reading right now is the pairing. um I mean, first of all any character Casey McQuiston writes is incredible, but I just, the like character work done on Kit...
00:53:29
Speaker
and the the two main characters. I'm literally reading it. Like, I just read it this morning. I'm like, what are your names? um The character work is just so good because one of the things I love, and this is just books in general, but especially in this book since it is a romance, is when there's, like, little inflections about the character that's, like, so specific to that character.
00:53:54
Speaker
um And especially since this book is, like, kind of dual pov um point of view i just am having like so much fun being like oh yeah this is like definitely something this character would say and it's like I've only known them like 200 pages but ah that's one of my current like fixations I'm like studying that book and how to write character romances That's so real. And Kit and Theo are just so special to me. Yeah.
00:54:23
Speaker
And they're so, I swear, Casey put in so much work to just, like, get their, like, their knowledge of, like, food. Yes. And the things that, like, interest each of them. Yep. It's so good because it's like, oh, yeah, of course this character knows, like, you know, the varietal of wine or whatever. Like, who knows that? I mean, exactly. Like, little things like that are so impressive. And I remember Casey posting at the time that they went, like,
00:54:45
Speaker
on like a European trip to research it. Yeah. I'm like, man, I could go on a research trip and I don't know if I would ever like glean that much information. Yeah. So they're just like a genius. And I feel like I'm learning so much just from reading the book. I know so much about wine all of a sudden.
00:55:02
Speaker
Right? Who would have guessed? um All right. Let's see. What is our final question? It's just where can we find you and your books on the internet? Oh, my gosh. I'm all over. um On Instagram and TikTok, which are kind of my most used apps, I would say, I'm Mackenzie M. Reid.
00:55:23
Speaker
And then on YouTube, I'm Mackenzie Reid Writes. Yeah. So I've been having fun, as you know, Karis. Yeah, I was about to say plug for Mackenzie's YouTube. It's adorable and super fun.
00:55:35
Speaker
I just watched a video today. Thank you I appreciate it. I'm excited because I'm going to dive more into like the I hope this email finds you in-house sub journey and how it how it went from a seed to a full plant. So i'm excited to see the twill flower yeah that's exciting all right well thank you so much mckenzie for coming on the podcast this was really fun yeah um thank you so much for having me thanks for having me i had so much fun chatting about this and that's on horror romance with mcgenzie reed good think addy
00:56:13
Speaker
man it was just really cool also I'm like so stoked to read her book that's coming out next next year next fall maybe um it just sounds so cool and yeah yeah A hundred percent. One of the coolest things about this podcast is like talking to people and getting like having conversations about k craft, which turns into like we get to talk about the craft in relation to their books and their process and just all that really good stuff. So I thought this was such a fun conversation.
00:56:43
Speaker
i and I'm like when I say like I don't know.
Interest in Horror Romance Genre
00:56:48
Speaker
jack squat about horror it means like i haven't read a horror since like 2017 when i was writing an article about like a horror newbie tries reading horror and id and f2 bucks like that's how bad it is but i am really excited about the just like general the general genre the general genre of like horror romance and sort of trying to dip my toes into scarier spookier stuff
00:57:15
Speaker
through the lens of at least I know there's gonna be like it's gonna be okay because there's gonna be an HEA right like there are these two characters at least are gonna end up together and okay and like hopefully alive or at least like not alive in the way in which the world works in this book you know yeah something that at the end you'll feel good about it every other character in the book who knows who knows ven too these two these two they're they're gonna survive yeah No, I love, I love horror romance.
00:57:45
Speaker
And I really, ah really appreciated this interview too, because um we were able to like talk about the craft aspects through that framework, like you said, of the book that she had just written.
00:57:55
Speaker
um And so I think that that's always helpful to like, when you're, when you hear that and you're trying to apply it to yourself, you're like, okay. So these are the tips and then these are, the this is how this works within that framework. yeah.
00:58:07
Speaker
Yeah. And so listeners, we hope you enjoyed this episode and our conversation with Mackenzie. We're going to have links to her socials, website, Goodreads, possibly pre-order. Who knows if it's up yet for ah Hope This Email Finds You in Hell.
00:58:21
Speaker
Buy links for her published books. We'll have those all in the show notes. um Go ahead and give us a like and a follow and give us a rating and a review or leave a comment on Spotify. Tell us what you thought.
00:58:34
Speaker
And we love you. We love you. Bye. Bye.