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Co-Writing - and Living - Romance (Interstitial #1) w/ Emily Wibberley and Austin Siegemund-Broka
25 Plays16 hours ago
Welcome to our season two interstitials! In these shortened, offshoot episodes, we chat with authors about various romance craft topics that didn’t fit into our regular program. In interstitial 1, Karis chatted with co-authors — and married couple — Emily Wibberley and Austin Siegemund-Broka about what it takes to co-write — while living out — romance!
Find Emily & Austin online.
The Write Way of Life is a craft-focused author interview podcast by Karis Rogerson & A.D Jolietta. Follow The Write Way of Life on Instagram or find us on our website. Follow Karis on Instagram and subscribe to her newsletter. Follow Adi on Instagram.
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Transcript
Introduction: Hosts and Backgrounds
00:00:28
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome to a new episode of the Right Way of Life podcast. My name is Karis Rogerson. i am a writer, reader, and podcaster located in Brooklyn.
00:00:39
Speaker
Don't know why that felt relevant to share today, but it is. And I'm here with my co-host, A.D. Joletta. how are you? And I'm just Ken. no um.
00:00:51
Speaker
I'm good. I'm doing good. i am ah packing up my life for a cross-country road trip. Yeah, but give us an update. tell us your Tell us your new life news. My new life news, yes.
00:01:03
Speaker
um Yeah, so I ah have accepted a new job. I'm moving back to Alaska, which and I'm moving back to my hometown. excited noises.
00:01:16
Speaker
the excited noises Yeah, no, it's very exciting. um I got a big, brand new, shiny job in my hometown. It's a wild, it's an interesting pivot. It's still in the nonprofit world, but um I'm no longer working in the theater and opera. So my only creative outlet will be writing.
00:01:36
Speaker
Incredible.
Life Changes and Transitions
00:01:39
Speaker
i time I'm just like, that was like a bombshell, which i already knew about. But still, it's like a conversational, like, kaboom, big life changes.
00:01:50
Speaker
Yeah. i Yeah. Like, today has just been me packing up literally my entire apartment and getting rid of 90% it. Wow. um wow So, it's speaking of today, today is Sunday, October 12th, 2025.
00:02:02
Speaker
um I'm in Brooklyn. Big storm's coming in. Hopefully, knock on wood. I want the rain. I want the rain. the rain I don't like thunder and I don't like lightning, but I do want the rain, but not the flooding.
00:02:15
Speaker
You want a ah mild amount of rain. like in his yeah but i I fear it won't be mild if what they're saying is is whatever. um The next thing on my agenda was life updates. We got Addie's life update. I'm pretty sure I put that in there because I knew you had a big life update. This is true.
00:02:32
Speaker
Grace, what's your life update? Do you have anything?
00:02:38
Speaker
I mean, there are, like, things that I'm doing in the background to try and update my life, but nothing that I can share publicly at the moment. um Yeah. i And nothing that, like, it's all... The frustrating thing about my life right now is that I am doing and
Anticipation and Waiting Periods
00:02:54
Speaker
have done everything I can do, and now changes are in other people's hands.
00:02:59
Speaker
And that's really frustrating because I can't control other people's hands. And so they they can like take their sweet time or they can like say no or they can, you know, flip me off with their middle finger and I can't do anything about it because it's their hands, and not mine.
00:03:14
Speaker
You feel? Yeah. Yeah. So that's my life update. My life update is um I'm frustrated. How's your reading and writing going?
00:03:28
Speaker
We are not doing much writing. um i i joke yeah it Shocking to everyone. um I am trying to read um the entire discography. Discography? disogness Bibliography.
00:03:42
Speaker
Bibliography. Because it's books. Right. Not books. Yes, you're right. I'm trying to read the entire bibliography of Ryan LaSala because a friend ah friend told me that they have a conspiracy theory and like a like a like an overarching um idea about like ah something about the books.
00:04:04
Speaker
And i love to be in the know. Like you can't tell me that there might be some fun overarching in a book series and me not being like I have to I have to know I'm like the person I want to be the fly on the wall I don't want to be in the drama but I want to see the drama I want to know about the drama and will give you another reason to hurry up and read the books okay it's just that I did dm ryan with our friends theory and we had a lovely conversation about it and so Okay. Don't tell me. Don't spoil it. easily I'm not going to tell you.
00:04:39
Speaker
great not now, at least. um Come to me when you've read the book. Sorry, listeners.
Reading and Writing Journeys
00:04:45
Speaker
You'll have to DM Ryan yourselves if you want to know. so good luck. <unk>s He's very lovely.
00:04:51
Speaker
um Oh, I just found a piece of rice in my dress. Okay. life it's so good for context folks karis is wearing a black and white dress with like tiny little white dots so like honestly it sort of makes sense like and there's ruffles i found it in the ruffles in the rough yeah so like i ate risotto for lunch today it's it's it's recent rice i think i'm making it worse so my law
00:05:22
Speaker
What am I reading? Oh my god. I finished S.T. Gibson's Savage Blooms, which I spoke about two weeks ago. Obsessed. um It was just so good. And sir the plots were twisting.
00:05:41
Speaker
The characters were arcing. And the sex was horny. I don't know what else to say about it. like It was great. It's a dream book right there. You can ask me more.
00:05:52
Speaker
I also just started A Crown of Ivy and Glass ah by Claire Legrand. Yeah, yeah. yes it so excited I love that series so much. I'm so excited to talk to you about it. And I need to, I'll send you the picture of, because I got the book when Claire did an event with someone in New York.
00:06:08
Speaker
And so I have it signed and personalized. And then she like brought a message for me because as we were talking, she was like, oh, Karis, great name. Which when I meet authors, the conversation is usually either like, what a great name you have. Or have I seen you around?
00:06:24
Speaker
Sometimes Yeah. um And so i was like, yeah, my mom stole it from a girl. She babysat, like, whatever. It's fine. It's Greek. And then, you know, i was like, a lot of fantasy authors named their villains Karis.
00:06:39
Speaker
And she was like, what? And I was like, i I promise you it's happened like at least twice, maybe even three times. Like it just keeps happening. Sometimes they spell it slightly differently. But there is at least one book series where the villain is named K-A-R-I-S.
00:06:53
Speaker
And I was like, oh my God, that's my claim to fame. I'm just a book villain. Let's go. And Claire wrote, you are a hero, not a meanie or something like that in the book when she personalized it. And I will treasure this book for the rest of my life.
00:07:07
Speaker
that's so sweet i know so that's my reading or some of my reading there's the other seven books that i'm reading too i'll talk about them eventually um if i talked through every single book that i'm currently reading on every single episode we'd just be here we we'd just be a we'd just be a book podcast we'd just be what's carous reading right i could do that actually i should start a podcast Oh, I would listen to it.
00:07:32
Speaker
I want to. I'm so sweet of you. um I am writing. So I'm confused at the moment in terms of writing. i am I've been drafting my witchy sort of adult sapphic paranormal romance, but lately I'm struggling with it. And I can't tell if I'm having writer's block as in I'm at the wrong part in the story or I'm doing something I shouldn't be doing. Writer's block as in I'm having burnout.
00:07:59
Speaker
Or if I just need to, like, push through and be like, I'm really excited about, don't make that face. Wow.
00:08:08
Speaker
I think push through is the option. You're right. Karis, please, no. No. i will start a group chat with some other folks who also, I think, share my opinion about the push through. We already have a group chat with that person.
00:08:25
Speaker
Come on. Well, then I'll bring it up. I'll bring it up. Okay. I won't call it reinforcements. So I'm like taking a pause from it. I've asked some friends if anyone wants to do a positivity pass hoping maybe that'll like bring the spark up and be like this book isn't utter trash.
00:08:42
Speaker
um And I'm also toying with starting to brainstorm what I hope will be a contemporary romance series that's in addition to the revenge series.
00:08:55
Speaker
o Which is not its name. Okay. So, oh, and I'm writing essays, obviously, for my eventual memoir and essays.
00:09:06
Speaker
Oh, exciting. when do When do you want to publish this, like, memoir essay? Do you want to do it, like, when you're, like, 75 and have lived a long... It's about a specific time period in my life.
00:09:18
Speaker
And then also...
00:09:21
Speaker
How to say this without saying it? Some organizations that I have... Institutions that I have been involved with that might be considered
00:09:38
Speaker
cult-like. um So, that's that. And so I'm writing it now. And I don't want to... Like, I wouldn't want to debut with a memoir because I'm like, who the fuck cares, right? Like, I gotta get...
00:09:53
Speaker
I gotta get some more people invested in the Caris Rogerson brand before I publish a memoir.
00:10:00
Speaker
So, maybe, like, if I can start publishing romance novels in, like, five to ten years, maybe. Okay. We'll see. Ideally, the romance novels would begin being published within the next two years, but...
00:10:15
Speaker
Who knows? Who's to say? Not me, that's for sure. Because it's in other people's hands. Yeah. You yeeted it out into the world. And as previously discussed, I can't control them.
00:10:27
Speaker
It's pissing me off. Alas. Alas. Alas. Yeah. So, today, um well, not today, but, you know, when this episode comes
Interstitial Episode Introduction
00:10:40
Speaker
out.
00:10:40
Speaker
Tomorrow! This episode. Exactly. Exactly.
00:10:49
Speaker
So sorry. This episode is a slight, it's it's a different sort of type of episode from what we normally do. It's called an interstitial. um I love the word interstitial. I think it's a perfect word and should be used in so many more contexts than it is. And so when we sort of ah Someone reached out and asked us if we wanted to feature the authors in today's episode. And I was like, you know what? We've already got like the whole plan for the season.
00:11:19
Speaker
And it's like, you know, we we we've got all our episodes and our ideas and stuff. But, you know, what we could do is we could have in the middle of the episodes, like every three episodes, we could have an interstitial And the interstitial is a shorter um interview about a sort of romance related offshoot topic.
00:11:40
Speaker
Right. So it's it's we're going through themes for this episode. So we've got like the the basic or for the season. We've got like romance basics. We're doing our next one. Spoiler alert is on a couple of genres, sub genres of romance.
00:11:55
Speaker
Then there will be an interstitial and we'll have one with some tropes interstitial and then we'll have like
00:12:02
Speaker
Oh yeah, something else. um Another series of three. And then an interstitial then the grand finale. And so these are episodes that are on a theme, but not a theme that falls neatly into the existing themes.
00:12:23
Speaker
This is our first interstitial episode. It was so much fun to record. We chatted with, well I chatted with Emily Riverley and Austin Sigmund Broca. And we talked about co-writing a romance novel, parentheses, while living a romance.
00:12:39
Speaker
End parentheses. And it was just a ah real cute time. So that's what you're getting today. Emily Wiberly and Austin Siegmund Broca met and fell in love in high school. Austin went on to graduate from Harvard while Emily graduated from Princeton.
00:12:53
Speaker
Together, they are the authors of multiple novels, including The Roughest Draft and Reese's YA book club pick, Heiress Takes All. There are also two-thirds of USA Today bestselling author E.B. Asher.
00:13:05
Speaker
Now married, they live in Los Angeles where they continue to take daily inspiration from their own love story.
Co-Writing Dynamics and Process
00:13:12
Speaker
All right. Hello, Emily and Austin. How are y'all doing today?
00:13:16
Speaker
we are doing good. We're doing great. How are you? It's great to be here. I'm doing... How am I doing? I'm doing well. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to have y'all. um This is our fourth episode for the season, but the second one we're recording of the season, so it's very confusing.
00:13:34
Speaker
um And I'm just excited to chat with y'all about um co-writing. It's something that I think... And like the craft of co-writing, like the logistics too, because it's like... I don't know. I love to collaborate with people. I love to talk to people. I'm always like, I should co-write with all my friends. And then I'm like, maybe it's a little harder than it sounds.
00:13:52
Speaker
right So excited to learn. But um before we dive into that, I would just love to know about the two of y'all's origin story.
00:14:03
Speaker
um How you met, how you started writing together, all the good stuff. For sure. Well, the meeting way predates the writing together. We've been friends for a long time and together romantically for just a little bit less time than that. And started writing probably about, was like five years into our relationship. So there was a long time where it wasn't like when we are actually high school sweethearts, um former high school academic competitors turned high school best friends, turned high school sweethearts.
00:14:32
Speaker
So that's the story in nutshell. That was just the YA novel to end all YA novels. and There were certain hallmarks. And of course, that's part of why we write in that genre is that we're in our own experience.
00:14:46
Speaker
But yeah, and started writing together. And we actually also write under a pet name with a third person, Bridget. So we we love collaboration.
00:14:57
Speaker
It is so rewarding. And honestly, i think it just makes the process so much better. Absolutely. It's most and certainly more fun.
00:15:09
Speaker
I can see that. I can see that. I can also see the, like, I don't know, what do you do if you have, like, different ideas for where the plot should go? do you, like, rock, paper, scissors, like, battle it Like, Do you mean plot literally? Emily wins every time.
00:15:23
Speaker
How many seconds? Definitely way more conflict in co-writing. Yes. But that that just pushes the story further, which can be a bit. And like what we always say when people want to collaborate, it's like, just make sure that you are working with someone who you're not afraid to say to.
00:15:43
Speaker
And to like have because there are some people who like I am a people pleaser and like for actual people in my life, I am going to just be like, whatever you want, I'll make it work.
00:15:54
Speaker
That would not make me look, no I don't think. And so you have to have somebody who you can say no to. And at the end of the day, that relationship is not going to be impacted. Because if it's a good, fruitful, flourishing co-writing relationship, what you're really doing is having with another person a lot of the discussions that you might otherwise be having within your own brain, right? Because all of us in the creative process in the process of any major enterprise, we second guess. And we say, you know, that thing really thought was cool the other day.
00:16:23
Speaker
like I actually don't like that idea at all. Or like, is this good? I don't know. And you're writing, you're just having those conversations out loud with somebody who... maybe doesn't agree that the idea isn't that good actually, but you know, it speaks to how creativity and and interpretation work.
00:16:42
Speaker
Oh, I love that. I definitely, i can see where that would be useful. Cause I like three days ago finished a draft of a novel and was like, yay, it's done. It's the worst thing that's ever been put to paper.
00:16:54
Speaker
You know, like I'm going to send it to my friends and they're going to disown me. and That's also a piece in co-writing that's really valuable because it's so, like, we constantly think what we are doing is terrible.
00:17:04
Speaker
And, like, we have faith in what the other person is doing. so and Then that gives you faith in your book. Also, congrats on finishing your drafts a few months ago. awesome. being yes you always view me being able to be like, well, I know that, like, I respect what he did, so therefore can't be completely bad for everything and Yeah, I think this is something I learned. Like, I did an MFA in writing for children. And what I learned, like, it was a low residency. So we were at a residency. We were doing a readings. And I was like, I'm terrified. I don't know if I belong to be here.
00:17:42
Speaker
And then my cohort mates stood up and started reading. And I was like, wow, these people are really good. And they're saying that my work is good, too. But I think that they have good taste, clearly. So, like, maybe I should believe in so myself. Myself? Me?
00:17:56
Speaker
What? It helps you clear that mental wall. and And then once you get to an end product, you know it's something that at least one person whose opinion you really respect likes.
00:18:10
Speaker
Because, you know, that all throughout forever, it's all plagued with self-doubt. And it's very valuable and very nice to go into everything we release and everything we send to everybody thinking to ourselves, well, this can't be...
00:18:23
Speaker
you know completely out of pocket because at least one person who i really respect thinks it's good right kind of yeah yeah that's I I love that yeah that's so cool um but how did you so you said you started writing together like five years into your relationship how did that how did that come about yeah jewel Yeah. ah My parents are actually a married writing team. So I grew up around that and I've just always like thought that was normal. And then when I decided that I wanted to write, I would run ideas by Austin because, you know, he cares about story all the time. We go to movies and read books and all that stuff. And he was, you know, my best friend. And so I would talk to him about ah what I was doing and, and share
00:19:14
Speaker
ideas and run things past them and more that got more and more and more involved and more and more feedback. And eventually I was like, okay, do you want to just like write one together then? And had been forward to this question for a long time because i i love collaboration. like On the whole, i come from from disciplines like like journalism and broadcast journalism where you're very much not like a lone esthete on the top of Mount Art. like It's all about your team and everybody's putting things together to make the best possible product.
00:19:47
Speaker
So I come at it from a very, like let's bring everybody's best ideas together. And Emily has the best ideas that I've like ever talked to in anybody.
00:19:58
Speaker
And so when the when the question came along of like, well, do you want to collaborate together? i kind of realized it was this critical juncture moment. And this this was a great idea.
00:20:09
Speaker
That getting into this enterprise together was a hugely combative idea you know, very exciting possibility. And so we started kind of putting our skill sets together. And this is where the process of co-writing gets kind of interesting is because it's writing, as you know, is actually like a lot of disciplines put together.
00:20:30
Speaker
And just like with Pokemon, you can have a lot of one skill, but not so much as another skill. And when you put stats together with somebody else, you get a really good Pokemon team.
00:20:41
Speaker
And... This is exactly how our our writing works is, you know, we kind of learned what each of our of, you know, of us favored and how to defer to each other's experience in different pieces of the discipline.
00:20:55
Speaker
How does it work like like logistically? Do you all have... Austin, you said Emily has the best ideas. like doall Do you all do... One is the idea person. that do you pick a character if you're doing multi-people?
00:21:08
Speaker
How do you sort of break it down? it's it's First of all, it's like changed. like We've been doing this together for like ah almost 10 years now. yeah And so it's... The demands of life of have changed what we're able to do. But...
00:21:23
Speaker
it We always kind of start from a brainstorming together. And usually our best book ideas are like somebody comes up with half the idea. It's just like, here's it a ah germ of something. And then somebody else like adds that piece to it that it needs to really stand out.
00:21:39
Speaker
And so we always collaborate on those pieces together. And sometimes we really break the entire story together. That's how we ideally like to do it. And then go and I do like something in between an outline and a zero draft where like it is literally like ah every like be every piece of dialogue is just like no effort into ah prose or what. Yeah.
00:22:06
Speaker
yeah very little effort into any of those pieces and then it's that and turns that into more of a first draft for and then i revise and then it kind of but we used to like just do it all together but now that like we can't that anymore it was very there was a lot of fighting we were like picking every single word together you're like It was very accommodative, but very easy to get lost in the weeds and in the fights that don't matter.
00:22:34
Speaker
But there's, you know, point being, there's a lot of different ways to do it. And you can kind of put together time and your skill sets in whatever way works for you. And there's not like one way prescribe.
00:22:45
Speaker
We don't, one thing we we don't, do assigning perspectives to we write with bridget yeah yes you know it's it's more it's more even-handed when there's all three of us and the books are that way but when we have worked together we feared that the voices would get too disparate and it would get well and as we said and we have different skills and so it's like ah we want to use he does the pros and i do the coming up idea part like it would be very unbalanced if we just decided to like each do each other's parts and one would better at one part my plot would be dad
00:23:25
Speaker
then i've learned a lot but it's ah it's a it's great thing to learn from Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I can see too where it like it would depend on the the collaborative team, right? like Maybe i just had this memory that apparently I had locked away in a vault of like trying to write a story with my best friend in middle school and we were doing the like draft together, like sit next to each other and one types the words into the huge-ass desktop computer.
00:23:56
Speaker
And then we like started fighting because someone said that one wanted to say that this shit man's skin was pale as milk and we like never finished the story because we just fought over that yep um a hundred percent you need to be able to like be like and it was through it would get to the point where we'd be like this is a word we have fought over in the past so i ready like i'm putting my gloves on right ready to get it's about to come up and like of it is too overpowering to like stand back into like literally this word is not gonna like make a difference in the overall book but but stepping away from the writing literally together has been like helpful for us and that's and allowed us to focus on our strengths and it's very efficient yeah
00:24:45
Speaker
enough yeah yeah i love that and i i um it's so interesting i feel like we could probably have an episode on co-writing with like every single pair that co-writes novels and get like something different from each pair which is i mean that's just writing charis you good job you discovered that everyone is different like It's true. And it's I love talking to other co-writers because I think everybody does so differently. and like Kind of fine but worse.
00:25:11
Speaker
Yeah. some I remember asking ah some team, and a like, what do you do when like you disagree? And they were like, well, we wouldn't disagree. And like that is like... was like, oh, okay.
00:25:23
Speaker
was like, okay. That's awesome, Mr. Mrs. Perfect. like Oh, that's hilarious. um Yeah. What about... Okay. Do you have any, like, craft tips that you would give to, like, a partnership of two people that really want to co-write together? Maybe specifically, like, for a romance.
00:25:42
Speaker
um What would you tell them, like... craft wise. I think that in co-writing, like we, we in general are outliners. Yeah. We're clock pantsers. Yeah. In co-writing, I think that that is like, especially important. Even more important. Yeah. um It's just, you need to know, you need to all be on the same page. You need to know that you're all on the same page. I know that other people,
00:26:05
Speaker
have like popcorn written, like really they like trade chapters without knowing where it's going. And that's cool. Maybe that works for some people. Maybe that only works for some genres too. Like, I don't know. I think that like some, like if you're doing like fantasy or something, like you guys decide on like what the rule world is. You need to know what you're doing.
00:26:25
Speaker
ahead of time and so we when we're working together we really outline and when we work with bridget like we run it like a like a tv room or like we are doing a hey room talking about everything before we separate and then because otherwise we're not it's not we're not going to finish anything and it's going to make sense if we do finish something like So definitely we're big, big on outlining. And we're also big on the whole on like setting goals to actually get stuff done.
00:26:54
Speaker
It's it's important to like, be gestating over your perfect masterpiece forever than it is to be like, let's, let's just make sure we knock out three chapters this week. And then and you'll get some. And I find that co-writing is actually like really motivating for that because two things. One, the book does get done faster because somebody else does get.
00:27:12
Speaker
It's very cool to be like, oh my God. wow. Oh, wow. bubblebble inside Yeah. Oh, wow. oh then challenge It gives you like a sense of accountability and pressure because you're like, oh okay, she just did. yeah She got a chapter. I can't disappoint. We got to like catch up. We can't be too far behind, you know, like can't keep writing without knowing like what is coming in like, you know,
00:27:34
Speaker
While we outline everything, we may not know exactly like where a scene ends. And so like we need to kind of have the chappers in there so you can pick up and play. Yeah, exactly. Teed the other person up, right? And so there's built-in ability. And just, you know, leaning into that as a benefit rather than seeing it as a stress is ah is a positive aspect.
00:27:51
Speaker
Yeah. I like that. I think that's actually great. They'll like lean into it, like look at the positive signs and like as strengths instead of like, you know, cause you can turn anything from a liability into a strength pretty much.
00:28:08
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Um, there was something that my brain like caught on and then forgot about. I say like my brain is, that's not me that forgot it. Right. It's like something else.
00:28:19
Speaker
Come on. Can't blame me for forgetting what I was going to say. Um, Okay. So why did I ask this question? This so weird. um What about when it comes to like the emotions? are Like how do you maintain a relationship outside of your writing, within your writing? Like how do you have that multiple levels to your relationship?
00:28:45
Speaker
I think it's really important to have a foundation outside um before. Because i think I think if people start to write together before they've known each other too long, yeah the the friendship kind of becomes secondary to the partner.
00:29:03
Speaker
And then if the partnership doesn't go anywhere, then the friendship maybe ends too. And that is a Sal situation. And, and so it's like, we've been, we had been together for a long time before we started writing and we've been really good friends with Bridget before we started writing Bridget too. And so it's just kind of like, you have to you like most, we write a lot of things that don't,
00:29:26
Speaker
work out. They don't get published, whatever. And you have to be cool and be like, even if this doesn't work out, we are still going to have a relationship at the end of the day. And that is most important.
00:29:38
Speaker
and And just kind of setting those expectations and knowing that like that helps so so that when you have conflict or whatever, it's easier to be like, let's just stop talking about the book and talk about our real lives. And like what matters to us as people have so much, so many other things to talk about beyond just this book that we're working on.
00:29:56
Speaker
And it's the same way as far as like resolving fights. Because like the truth is conflict is going to happen. it is inevitable, unless you are our lovely friends who are the most perfect relationship.
00:30:08
Speaker
um Everybody else, restless mere mortals, it's going to happen. And so you have to have that foundation in much the same way you do otherwise. Because you're always going to fight in your relationship. And you're going to fights friends sometimes. And it's the same backstop of love and trust and endurance that will get you through some of the emotional stresses of co-writing.
00:30:27
Speaker
And I think trying to treat it like when we're working, like try to have an air of professionality to it. We're not always least good about it when it's ourselves because we were married. So like we might say like actually mean things. What it say to like...
00:30:41
Speaker
like yes but when you're work home working with we disagree with Bridget it's like let's treat this yeah like we are in the office we and we gotta keep it just like cool it's like that it's definitely a way because you know while we are at home and in our pajamas or whatever while we're writing like we have to have some professional yeah rules And that that helps you because like with such ah an emotional creative art.
00:31:07
Speaker
It's so personal. Yeah, when you get close to the metal, sometimes you can kind of get hyped up about things that aren't actually worth being hyped up about. And so when you force yourself to be a little bit more removed about it, after you will be glad that you handled that discussion more respectfully because you're like, you know what like well' yeah What was I doing? I'm like, that was a perfect idea.
00:31:24
Speaker
what what you know What was I stressed about? like So nopa in that frame of mind. It's kind of like remember, like, remember that the person you're writing with is like human, right? Like treat them yeah with respect and humanity. But also there have to be like those boundaries of like, yeah and and you know, you might be my best friend, but I'm not going to treat you like my best friend in this moment.
00:31:47
Speaker
yeah And you can't ever be wanting to impress them. Like, you can hope that you do, but, like, if you come into it being, like, I need this person to see that I'm such a smart writer, that's, like, on what it is.
00:32:03
Speaker
That's so true. Yeah. I see that even in, like, when you're working with, like... um Like, um in my, at school, we worked with other writers and as advisors, and people would always, like, your first semester, you're like, I want this, you know, award-winning author to think that I'm the most brilliant person to walk the planet. And then the, like, third semester students are like, no, you don't. You want her to see exactly what's wrong with your writing so that you can improve it.
00:32:31
Speaker
you know yeah and we know as writers like it can i mean this is just part that every writer has to learn how to be able to take them and it's really hard and it can be the hardest coming from somebody who you are really close to respect a lot but just knowing that like okay let's just take the ego out of it and be like we are all on the same team here it's hard to do but it's really important to go right And how do you handle it, say...
Dealing with Disagreements in Co-Writing
00:32:59
Speaker
Okay, so you're... At this point, probably even when you begin, you're probably unlikely to reach a scenario where, like, one of you reads something the other one wrote and is like, this is awful.
00:33:08
Speaker
Like, I don't ah donnt think that happens. But what do you do if you're, like, not happy with something? Yeah. I mean, yeah, first first and foremost, like that, that former scenario has literally never, like it's, which is, which is nice and also not particularly surprising. There's really been like, dude, wow. Or, you know, you're really out left field on this. Like what, yeah you know, what the hell happened?
00:33:28
Speaker
Yeah. I, yeah, it happened. I think that we just would try to give the most, I think in general, if you read, like if you read something and we have a bunch of notes, it's kind of like, just take a second and be like, what are like the two most important notes?
00:33:43
Speaker
Because most preferences and like, we don't, we don't want to control over control. Right. Cause then you might as well write on your own. Like there's no, not hiring people but like do your work for you. like You are actually collaborating with somebody. So if you think that there's a bunch of problems, maybe just think, what is the most important problem? And then the rest, can I try to just say maybe it's okay?
00:34:08
Speaker
You should have said, right. The more I'm thinking about this, you should essentially... try to never have that reaction because the idea should be that this is a person you respect so much that you can acknowledge that they may be able to see things you cannot.
00:34:27
Speaker
And so if you've done is like truly irredeemably awful, you should either s stop working with that person entirely because there's such a skill gap or up.
00:34:38
Speaker
you should think to yourself i should not have this reaction because they hitting a target i cannot see i like that yeah yeah and i was like i was like i know that y'all haven't had that like what i described him you know it's so out of the that's why you should know the person you're writing with before you start writing with them because whoever you decide to collaborate with yeah yeah you do want to like think of them as like a skilled writer Yeah. And if you do, you should then be comfortable relying on that respect, even if you can't quite see the scaffolding. and
00:35:12
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Like sometimes there's something there and you for whatever reason, you can't see it yet, but you're trusting in partner. Yeah. Um, so what is the best thing about writing romance? What is the best thing about writing romance as a partnership, specifically when you have your own romance? it's like a multifaceted question.
00:35:37
Speaker
Oh man, what's the best? I mean, and we might have different answers. I think that we get to share, we get to share our career with each other. yeah that brings us just even closer. it's like all but that are interesting to us, ah we're able to share. And then every thing we go through, we're able to share.
00:35:58
Speaker
and um every good thing we go through, we're able to share. And that really is the best. When it comes specifically to writing romance, I mean... there i We would say the sex scenes are very hard. Yes. It's very difficult when you're actually in a relationship. Very tricky. It's very complicated.
00:36:17
Speaker
But the other components of the romantic writing, I would say it's it's really it's really nice because you get like, we don't, this is a fine line and we devoted it you know an entire book, if not multiple, to it.
00:36:29
Speaker
these characters are not us and relationships are not ours. But as we seek to write love stories and to, to leverage pieces of our own lives and our own experiences, it can be very nice and interesting and affirming to see the stories these characters go through and the ways they think about them and talk about them and know that that's coming from your partner and be able to think to yourself, Oh, you feel that way too.
00:36:55
Speaker
You feel, way too. And this is how this is how you see it and this is what you believe and that's what I believe also. Yeah. Nice.
00:37:06
Speaker
I think um I've never tried co-writing with someone. and That's a lie because I literally told a story about it. ok I've never like seriously co-written with someone that I was actually like you know close to.
00:37:22
Speaker
But I can see where it could it could both really strengthen the relationship like if you've already got that foundation yeah yeah right where like if you don't it can be really rocky it's like make or break but if you already have that foundation it can really be like kind don't know like going don't know through fire together or whatever because you know and just like also are about it being like it helps okay you can be little more human about all the many yeah and like stressors of publishing Yeah, I was going to say, because, like, if I had someone out that I could be, like, you know, I'm really mad that my, you know, an agent rejected this full that I just sent or that we just sent. it's like, yeah, but, like, we know it's good. Like you like you were saying earlier, that there's that built-in, like, yeah affirmation it.
00:38:07
Speaker
And when we were querying, like, I remember specifically, like, we would all, like, and this is just how you go through life when you have, like, when you're, like, working on something with somebody. It's like, we you alternate on, like, who is going to be... When you are sad, the other person, like, is there to, like, pick you up and then, like, vice versa. So it's, like...
00:38:26
Speaker
you have somebody there that is one going to help pick you up but then two when they're sad you're going to be like trying to reassure them and then you're gonna be like wait i believe all these things actually are i am like and that makes you feel even better so it helps yeah yeah um what is the hardest thing about co-writing specifically like co-writing romance um yeah
00:38:55
Speaker
It is very much like you feel like everything is like, you're like, I'm not trying to say. It's a little too close to the spectrum. We're just doing a book. Here's our job.
00:39:08
Speaker
I'm not trying to, but I think that probably people must feel that way when they're not co-writing, when they write a sexy they're probably like, is my partner who going to read this and think that like, this is like specifically like what I want.
00:39:21
Speaker
I'm not sure what they do. Probably they're going to, and maybe they're right. And then that's embarrassing because you're writing that down. So like, there's just a lot of like layers that, and then when we're writing with Bridget, we're just like, cause obviously like that is not.
00:39:34
Speaker
Right. A part of this really. Yeah. The clothes. Yeah. we But we're like, you know, have to get the joke and be like, okay, Bridget, um bridget do your sex scene. Like, have fun.
00:39:44
Speaker
I'm gonna do commas for you and then move on. There's something about is writing adult romance with, like, sex scenes where it's like you kind of have to just get over yeah embarrassment yeah really fast. Yeah.
00:39:58
Speaker
yeah Because there's going to be a copy editor in there being like... Oh, God....hands in this... Oh, my God, yeah. Let's keep it that way. Let's move on. Yeah, okay.
00:40:13
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense. ah That makes sense is like what would be difficult. Yeah. What is, can you guys share some of your favorite romance novels? They don't have to be by like co-writing pairs because I don't know how many there are in romance, but just like your favorite romance novel.
Favorite Romance Novels and Recommendations
00:40:29
Speaker
genuine big fan of of our friend Bridget, of Bridget Morrissey's work.
00:40:33
Speaker
That is quite, it's like you're such an admirer of of all of her work, including her adult contemporary romances, which are so great, heart and soulful and just an absolute cut above.
00:40:44
Speaker
Mm-hmm. i ah yeah we really We are really big fans of... um It's the best worst thing, right? Not the worst. Yes. It's the better best worst. um Really fantastic. It's coming out, I think, like next month.
00:40:57
Speaker
Okay. Definitely. rough ah What else? There's so many wonderful... Yeah, I mean, we you know we're longtime fans of the genre and and big readers, but those I would say ah we would definitely especially call some of our... I mean, then Allie Hazelwood is like... I mean, yes, all of the... Yeah, all of... And Bryce's person on the planet as well. really she's very cool. Very wonderful to know that.
00:41:22
Speaker
Yeah. yep But definitely Bridget. Huge, anywhere you go came out this year, a fantastic book. Yep. Yes. Yes. Nice. And um what about romance, like hero, heroines, like main characters?
00:41:38
Speaker
Who are some of your favorites from books you've loved? Or hated? Well, no. Okay, wow. That's specific. To be honest, don't really think about it that way. Well, sometimes. I mean, i if you have examples. I have to think.
00:41:53
Speaker
i do have to think for a second. I mean, it's harder in contemporary romances, I feel like, because they just have no one. Like when you're writing, like, or reading fantasies you can get it i adore i don't know how much it counts but the um emily wild is like yeah so good yeah yeah like just that is like an all-time ship for me um and then oh what i just realized the better question was like what's your favorite ship oh don't know why i didn't think about it
00:42:26
Speaker
okay ah ship And then also like we both are huge, like backpackers. but before we were writing like six of crows was like we had chasm um yeah like every ship in that book honestly um trying to think oh i would say that those are our top ones and then like you got into i think like when we decided to write ya i was like here is to all the boys i've loved yeah before and so that was like very formative there's a there's a reason it's a hit i really see it's really really good peter know kavinsky yeah
00:43:02
Speaker
yeah I mean, everything, owns to everything about it. For the YA? Yeah. please yeah It's on every level. Yeah. in Yeah. I think, i think about those books sometimes just randomly. I'll be like, wow.
00:43:13
Speaker
What a good time. I know. like It takes you back. Dang. Yeah. Yeah. um What's, what do y'all have coming up next that you would like to talk about? I know I just was doing like Instagram stalking before this and saw new covers revealed that I don't remember the dates of when the reveals were, but you
Upcoming Projects and Listener Engagement
00:43:35
Speaker
can, yeah.
00:43:35
Speaker
Yes, our next romance is Seeing Other People, which comes out December 9, and it is about two people who have been haunted, literally, by the ghosts of their exes, and they meet in a support group for the haunted and join up together to try to exercise each other's spirits while healing and moving on.
00:43:53
Speaker
It's a book we're very excited about. Yeah, we're really proud of it. yeah I'm very excited about you can It's funny and sad and has a really strong romance at the core, but it's also about loss and do enduring relationships.
00:44:09
Speaker
And so we're we're really proud of that game out. And then after that is our sequel to the book we wrote with Bridget. yeah So which the first book is called This Will Be Fun and Then This Will Be Interesting is going to come out in March. And that is standalone, but you definitely listen to it.
00:44:24
Speaker
or out of it you know if you have read the first one but but those are like cozy romanticy and then it's like Shrek meets the princess bride yeah vibes yeah perfect vibes no notes her out of it and it was a blast to write with Bridget yeah yeah um is there anything else that either of you feels like sharing I'm just that's so open-ended but like about this yeah we um get off your chip we recently our first kid and with that in mind i would say that co-writing is the second best decision we've ever made
00:45:05
Speaker
And so concludes our first interstitial featuring the two and only Emily Wiberly and Austin Sigmund Broca. Sorry, that I came up with that on the fly and I thought it was so funny because there's two of them. Anyway, um this was such a fun conversation that I had with Emily and Austin.
00:45:24
Speaker
i really enjoyed... I really enjoyed how candid they were about life as like a married couple who also writes together. um i did giggle when we're like, so we're sitting on on this call and I was like, so what's hard part? And they were like, the sex scenes.
00:45:40
Speaker
I was like, oh my God. But then it's also, split I come from YA and I come from, you know, evangelicalism where it's like, you don't say the S-E-X word. You just pretend it doesn't exist. And now I'm in adult romance spaces and you get to say sex.
00:45:54
Speaker
um And it's a bit of an adjustment at times. But I had so much fun talking to them. I hope y'all enjoyed this conversation. i hope you got some good tips out of it. am excited and ki out near Anyway, hope you guys enjoyed this episode. If you did, feel free to leave us a comment on Instagram, leave us a comment on Spotify, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, send us a message, send us an email. If you're a romance author and you are like, hey, I should be on an interstitial for this podcast and you have a topic, just email us.
00:46:34
Speaker
um We would love to hear from you and tell your friends about this. Also, buy us a coffee if you want. We're on Ko-Fi. You've enjoyed it. Buy us a coffee.
00:46:45
Speaker
And, you know, your your task for this week is to tell one friend about the right way of life. And if you don't, we'll never know. So, you know, live your best life. The right way. Okay.
00:46:58
Speaker
And on that note.