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What is Queer Romance? Feat. Alexandra Vasti
40 Plays1 month ago
In the tenth episode of The Write Way of Life’s ~Romance Season~, host Karis Rogerson chats with USA Today bestselling author Alexandra Vasti about all things queer romance. They discuss how publishing treats queer romance, their favorite queer romances, and also how to write a beautiful queer romance .
Find Alexandra Vasti online. Order her books, including preordering Scandal of the Summer (out June 23 2026). And follow her on instagram.
The Write Way of Life is a craft-focused author interview podcast by Karis Rogerson & A.D Jolietta. Follow The Write Way of Life on Instagram or find us on our website. Follow Karis on Instagram and subscribe to her newsletter. Follow Adi on Instagram.
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Transcript
Playful Banter and Ice Skating in Alaska
00:00:28
Speaker
Well, hello there, the fine folks listening to the Right Way of Life podcast. This is one of your hosts, Karis Rogerson, and I am here with your other host, A.D. Jaletta. Hey!
00:00:42
Speaker
yes The crowd does go wild. How are you, Addie? I am surviving. ah It turns out Alaska ain't for the weak. Now, did I know that because I grew up here? Yes. Did I forget what it's like when the road is a literal ice rink? And some folks might be thinking, wow, what a hyperbolic statement. No, no, no.
00:01:09
Speaker
People are literally ice skating in their driveways withkpe with s skis with skates. With skates. People as in you, Addy. Yes, as in me. I mean, I had to try Granted, my driveway was not as perfect like ice rink level ice. There were folks like a couple hours north of me who like truly...
00:01:34
Speaker
Just skating beautifully. You can look it up on TikTok. um Good. Well, good God. Yeah. It's crazy. Something else.
Rethinking New Year's Start Date
00:01:44
Speaker
And last week it was it was like zero degrees and my car died and I thought I had to replace the battery. Turns out it just didn't want to function in five in negative five degree weather, which like same.
00:01:55
Speaker
Same car. Mood. Honestly. i also would like to just give out for a bit. I think that we have set the new year at the wrong time of year. Like, I don't know who decided that January 1st is the beginning of the new year. I think it should be April 1st.
00:02:14
Speaker
Spring. That's the new year. Or you could just live in the southern hemisphere. That's too hot.
00:02:26
Speaker
I cannot be pleased. I need the world to function off of weather systems that only relate to Alaska. ah i wonder why we don't do that.
00:02:40
Speaker
i don't know. It seems dumb. I'm sure it does. From Alaska. yeah How
Surviving Capitalism and Political Challenges
00:02:47
Speaker
are you, Karis? How are you surviving? oh Barely surviving, my dude.
00:02:55
Speaker
It has been rough out here in the brain of Karis.
00:03:03
Speaker
But ah we're hanging in there, as the white people say. We're
00:03:11
Speaker
we're doing our best.
00:03:15
Speaker
We're existing in a state of late stage capitalism and rising fascism. Or really, I mean, the fascism is here. It's the decline of an empire.
00:03:27
Speaker
What a time to be alive. Yeah, I texted my dad this morning and I was like, go to Costco, make sure you got like a week's worth of water. He's in Minnesota, like an hour outside of Minneapolis. So i was like, not to not to be crazy, but you know, you never know.
00:03:43
Speaker
he was like, should i leave? yeah i
Preparing for Potential Unrest
00:03:45
Speaker
was like, don't need to leave yet. Hopefully nothing happens. Hopefully we don't descend into... I mean, right now we are right? We're in like a so we're like a cold civil war.
00:03:58
Speaker
But we're not in an active civil war. So... We still gotta go to war. We're still... Still going to work, still podcasting, just pretending that life is normal while the systems that surround us crumble to dust, and we hope that they don't fall on our heads.
00:04:21
Speaker
I mean... The one bright side of being a student of history is knowing that even when empires fall, the people still exist after, right? There is a... long time Well, people live afterwards. There's just less people.
00:04:44
Speaker
It's not great. No, it's not. It's actually kind of awful. And I hate it. um What have you been reading, Addy? Read us into some hope.
Reading as Refuge and Creativity
00:05:01
Speaker
ah What have I been reading? um since Since you last asked that question, i have continued continued working my way through The Artist's Way, which is an interesting book i to read while everything is crumbling. But I also think that that's a moment where It's a good idea to rediscover creativity and art and how you can integrate it into your daily life. um so I don't know. I'm also reading a great book. ah Basically, the books that I'm reading have nothing to do with fiction. They're mostly just like nonfiction because right now I like my brain can't ah handle fiction right now.
00:05:46
Speaker
It's funny. Yeah. um So i'm reading a great book about like ah yeah body positivity and ah retraining your relationship to like food and not basically it's like anti-capitalism.
00:06:00
Speaker
That whole thing and just anti-diet culture and and it's it's great and ah scientific and very it's like a very therapy book. Mm-hmm.
00:06:15
Speaker
there's got to be a fiction book that i'm reading i just can't think of it i read too many like i'm like you karis right like i've got like you know three or four books on the top but those are the yeah bedside
00:06:31
Speaker
anyways i'm trying to open kindle and it like will not open excuse me
00:06:42
Speaker
Whatever. I'm reading a book called Long Island Girls. It is by an author. it is set starting in 2005 on Long Island. Then it jumps forward ten years.
00:06:54
Speaker
And by that I mean five. And then it jumps forward five years again. So eventually we do jump forward ten years. i was just wrong about when. it's pretty good. I like it.
Nostalgia and Creative Struggles
00:07:05
Speaker
It's very... It's giving thoughts. And I like it. That's nice. Like, I think my first thought up upon reading the first chapter was like, yeah, no, I definitely feel like it's the summer of 2005 and I'm like, in between school years.
00:07:25
Speaker
that's so real yeah i love how there's like this been there's like this nostalgia train that has like occurred recently with like the what were you doing in 2016 trend which like honestly timmy is a little bit like what are we doing 2016 you mean the year that everything went to shit but okay yeah for real in 2016 i was dropping out of grad school let's go yeah Three times. I have no regrets.
00:07:57
Speaker
I mean, it got you here to this place in this moment. But, yeah. Yeah. Sure. I was a junior in college.
00:08:09
Speaker
A baby. little babyba Little baby. Little baby. What have you been writing recently? um uh i have been staring at the book that i'm trying to query and it regret are you trying to query it yes like you're actively querying it no i've not sent the emails that's the problem oh addy give me your email hit send
00:08:40
Speaker
No. I mean, maybe. I'm already in one friend's query inbox. I might as well add yours. i mean, that might be the thing. i just kept i keep staring at it and I'm like, hmm. And so then what I do, like any avoidant, um is I then pick the newest type of fixation, which is trying to write a novella, a romantic fantasy novella. Oh, nice.
00:09:03
Speaker
Yeah. So I just had... I know. We're making progress. We built a world. And then I started on a story. Then I realized that that story is not novella shaped because I wrote 10,000 words of it. And I was like, oh, they haven't even fucking met yet. Yeah.
00:09:21
Speaker
And I even had like a rough plan. I like I didn't just start this thing and YOLO it. I was like, this is the general arc. Here's some world building. And then I started writing it and I was like, and we're 9560 words and they have not even met yet.
00:09:37
Speaker
I'm at three of this fucking one page. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. yeah
00:09:49
Speaker
That's so funny. Yeah. So we're pivoting. We're shelving that. I'm like, we need to, I need, I need to write this fucking 40,000 page novella thing so that I can submit it to the, you sent this to me this time. Can you just say again, and how many pages did you want to write your novella? 40,000 pages? 40,000 words. words? words.
00:10:11
Speaker
mine novella is twelve thousand words but it means a lot of expanding and also an ending I sent it off to beta readers.
00:10:22
Speaker
it was just like, in this chapter, they will have sex. And and my beta readers were like, what the fuck?
00:10:31
Speaker
Why would you leave that out? And I was like, I was tired.
00:10:37
Speaker
Chapter something. Sexy times. Yeah. the Let's go. oh my God.
00:10:48
Speaker
ah So other than your novella, what are you writing?
00:10:53
Speaker
I'm trying to outline sequel to Nat and Cammie.
00:10:58
Speaker
And that's it. I love that for you because you were saying that you felt like you needed to do more a couple days ago and I'm public.
Creative Pressures and New Year Timing
00:11:08
Speaker
No, I do need to do more. No, you don't.
00:11:10
Speaker
We're going to have this discussion. No, I do. No, Karis, you're doing enough. You got two podcasts. You're thinking of a third if I understand it correctly. Really?
00:11:22
Speaker
Or maybe, maybe the second one. didn't I thought that you had another podcast idea. Did you not? Well, yeah, but then I was like, no, that's ridiculous. We don't need another heated rivalry specific podcast in the world.
00:11:35
Speaker
so you got enough podcasts. You got enough books. It's January. i think that you got, we this is that this is the ah ah resting period of the year. You got to be like a bear in hybrid. No.
00:11:51
Speaker
Yep. No, no, no. All of the at the Instagram witches said that it's a big year for Taurus in terms of money, but I haven't seen any money yet, and we're 18 days in.
00:12:03
Speaker
Okay, but think of this. We're 18 days into the year, and maybe you will have more money because you're going to prioritize rest and purposeful energy work towards things that don't drain you, and then the universe will reward that.
00:12:23
Speaker
Sounds fake, but okay. Yeah. Rest equals energy equals more ability to make money. To quote an old boss of mine, you got to contract to expand.
00:12:41
Speaker
i
00:12:45
Speaker
Interesting. radical Radical idea rest. We shall see about that. um Okay.
New Podcast Series on Diverse Narratives
00:12:59
Speaker
ah This episode begins a new little series Leipod.
00:13:06
Speaker
And we're talking about, you'll hear me introduce it to our guests in just a little bit. So I'm not going to go into the like whole shebang. But basically we're we're looking at how romance and publishing in general operates off of a default. Which is often cishet, white, straight, able-bodied.
00:13:31
Speaker
Straight is part of cishet, but whatever. Um, and the, we're talking to some authors who write stories that go beyond that default. And so this episode we talked about, and for some godforsaken reason, I kept calling it non-heteroromance. Bitch, it's queer. Just say queer.
00:13:50
Speaker
Like, come on, let's be real. We're talking about queer romance. And we talked to the incredible Alexandra Vasty about it. Alexandra Vasty comes from a long line of romance-reading Vasty women.
00:14:03
Speaker
She fell in love with romance at age 11 and still swoons for Laura Kinsale and Judith McNott. Alex lives in Louisiana, where she teaches literature at a university by day and writes USA Today best-selling romance by night. Somewhere in there, she also raises three kids and two mostly feral kitties. She's powered by guacamole and oat milk lattes, though not usually at the same time.
00:14:27
Speaker
All right, everyone. ah This is Karis. I am here with our guest for the day, Alexandra Vasti. Did I say that correctly? I just realized I should have asked. No, you're good. All right. Amazing. um Yeah.
Queer and Historical Narratives
00:14:41
Speaker
So Alexandra, why don't you introduce yourself and your books to our listeners who, whether they do or don't, yeah.
00:14:48
Speaker
Hi, yes, thank you so much for having me. I'm very delighted to be here. um So I'm Alexandra Vasty. am sort of a, by day, I'm a professor. I'm a literature professor. um I live in Louisiana and I also write romance. um So I have, I write a historical romance, um which I've been writing for a couple of years.
00:15:12
Speaker
And um also later on this year, tentatively this year, um I'll have a sort of contemporary paranormal romance out as well. So yeah, that's what I do. That's so exciting. I love that. Yeah.
00:15:26
Speaker
This is going to sound so weird to say, but like I love that you have the day a day job and that it's a literature professor. like I think that's so cool. I have interest, and it's books. No, that's what I always tell people. I'm like, I should have diversified when I was 12, but I didn't. It's just books. but but Exactly. No, sometimes I'll be doing a podcast or interview, and I'll be like, what are your hobbies? And I'm like, it's books. I'm sorry. I'm like, what's a hobby? I've tried coloring. I've tried embroidery. I just can't.
00:15:55
Speaker
I just can't do it. Yeah, it's... And then I'll i'll see these riders who are like, yeah, and then I like weightlift and i run and i you know paint and I play violin and I'm like, how...
00:16:09
Speaker
Who are you? Hi. um i'm Yeah. Okay. That's great. um Yeah. So today we're talking about, i guess, like the sort of way I decided to phrase this little like section of it episodes that we're doing is like breaking the default, which is because um as you know, and as our listeners know, the publishing industry does tend to default to like cis, straight, white, able-bodied stories. And there are, like I've seen in the 10, 12 years that I've been involved in publishing, trying to get published, um I've seen a lot of change in that way, like a lot of diversification where we're seeing way more variety of stories represented. And, but it's still like a best of work in progress. And at worst, sometimes it feels like we're
00:16:58
Speaker
regressing. glu um Yeah. And so this episode is about, i guess I can just say queer for some reason, I kept pitching it as non-hetero relationships, but like, let's just say queer um because that like non-hetero still defaults to hetero and cishet and everything. But so i wanted to talk about this. Queer romance means a lot to me as a bisexual woman who writes queer romance. Like I,
00:17:26
Speaker
learned about my own queerness essentially through books. um And so i really love it and I love talking about it. And so i'm really excited for this episode. um And so I would love to know you released last year, you released ah Ladies in Hating, which is a sapphic romance. um And I would just love to know historical romance. Yes. So what led you to write in the like FF world?
00:17:52
Speaker
pairing as opposed to MF romance like because I know you've done both Yeah, yeah. um You know, it's so funny because my first book that I ever released um was a queer MF, The Heroine is Bisexual.
00:18:10
Speaker
And i all of my books have like very um present queer character. Like it really um just, I think, is part of the fabric of the worlds that I have created. um And I think, I mean, it's definitely always been something that I have wanted to write about. um I have an MFA in creative writing um and my MFA thesis was ah like a sapphic YA.
00:18:36
Speaker
um so i mean, it's just always been part of the fabric of of of the way that I write and the universes that I create um and very much, I think, grounded in real history. But as you know as you say, with your title of this series,
00:18:51
Speaker
the default of how we learn about history is very much you know straight right so um i just i you so funny i still remember like being in college and learning about emily dickinson and that like emily dickinson you know possibly had um you know uh like a queer sort of love affair. um and And I was like, that was very much like how I learned about literary history was with all of this queerness. And so it it was very surprising to me, like that people don't like know those facts or don't, um you know, don't don't realize that. and And as when I teach it, I very much teach that it's very that real, um you know, queer history is very much part of my teaching and how I present it to students. um Yeah, so I think it's it's really very central to my understanding of history.
00:19:40
Speaker
um One of the things that I found, so the the first, so this this book, um Ladies and Hating, is the third book in a series. um and I always pitched it as sapphic, so like we so the first book in the series is MF.
00:19:56
Speaker
ah But when they bought it, they they wanted pitches for like the re the next two books. And I always pitched to Savick. They were very on board. My agent, my editor, everyone was very on board with that, which I think I was very lucky because I've heard like very different stories of people saying, oh, if you start MF, you have to stay MF. you can't that never I was never told that. like I was ah always very...
00:20:18
Speaker
positive about like this is what I wanted to tell. They were like, great, sounds awesome. We love it. So I feel very lucky with the response I got from publishing with this story. But um anyway, so long long story short, the first book in the series is about a woman who starts like a secret library. And in the library are books for the purpose of sex education, right? So she's very um like fed up with how women, especially in her society, especially in her upper class society,
00:20:45
Speaker
are not given information about sex, about their own life. um And so she she decides to come up with this. She creates, she starts this like secret library. And it was really fun for me. I wanted, know, obviously this library is not real, but I wanted the books to be real, right? Like I wanted real books that she could have bought in the early 19th century. So I did all this research into medical textbooks and erotic novels and all of those things that would have really existed. And I was really surprised by how much of the erotic books were featured scenes between women. I might even mention to say most erotic novels from the period had at least a couple of scenes between women. So that was really surprising to me. that is sort of gave me even more like excitement about this third book that I knew that was going to write.
00:21:41
Speaker
I love that. i i like when you were saying you were like you learned about Emily Dickinson and like that she had this queer romance. I didn't learn about that until like Dickinson, the Apple TV show came out and I was like, wait, what?
00:21:55
Speaker
um Like my upbringing was very, different. my upbringing, my like introduction to literature, it was all very different. Like there was no, if I learned about queer people, it was like in the negative light. Right. And so I just, i don't know. I was like tearing up thinking of like, especially like you teaching literature and like,
00:22:20
Speaker
presenting it with the light of like the actual historical truth of it. Like, I think that makes me really happy for future generations of of readers and and students of literature. um And I love that.
00:22:31
Speaker
i love that history, like, no, I don't love this because it means we were taught a very specific view of history that is inaccurate and also very like,
00:22:43
Speaker
restricted um but I love finding out things like that the erotic novels were like scenes between women like yeah i was listening to a podcast yesterday and they're like yeah a third of marriages in this I think it was like Shakespeare's time or something they were like a third of them were um because the woman got pregnant and I was and it was just like normal and I was like wait what like growing up they would have had me believe you'd be stoned if you got pregnant before marriage right No, I mean, this this this is something that's really important to me, actually.
Victorian Conservatism vs. Openness
00:23:10
Speaker
Like, you're really, like, coming to me at, like, a place of passion. um yeah Because I do think we have this view of history that it was very prim and proper and this these things never happen. And history is so big and it changes so much, right? Like, in in the 17th century, so, like, around, like, Shakespeare, right?
00:23:31
Speaker
Like... people were much more open to queer sexuality. Like, the king of England had, like, King James, as in, like, the Bible, like, the Bible is named after, he had, like, a very well-known male lover.
00:23:46
Speaker
um Like, everyone knew. Like, it was just, it was very popular. Yeah. You know, and that's just people really don't know that. So in the Victorian period, which is like in the middle of the 19th century and later, that's when we see ah a real pullback and a lot of like, oh, we can't talk about that. Those things don't. So like um Jane Austen, who's like the beginning of the 19th century, she was pretty open about it like she knew how babies were made she i mean she was she was not married she was a daughter of a vicar but she still knew like she'd be gossiping with her sister like oh like they you know they did this they did that whatever and but by you know 50 80 years later that stuff was really much more seen as like oh we can't really talk about it we the like kind of you know so And I think that Victorian sense of like you know restrictiveness and shame, I think, has really just like taken hold of how we view the whole historical past. But like these are hundreds of years. like People were very different in 1601 1601.
00:24:45
Speaker
and 1701 and 1801 like those are those are vast swaths of time yeah yeah and I think it's one reason that I know like personally why it's important to sort of set the record straight on this is I can't even tell you how many times like I've heard the arguments against queer trans identity that's like oh it's just it's it just started during the pandemic and I'm like well first of all no it didn't like you're You're wrong because I have personal experience with like trans people going back before then. But also like the history record states like queer and trans people have always existed. Like you can't just.
00:25:22
Speaker
Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was something that was really important to me with Ladies in Hating specifically. um so like in the other books i use a lot of real historical texts so like the first one is about this library so i reference a lot of the real books um the second one she the heroine is like a political writer so i use a lot of real political tracks from the period um which by the way in the 19th century like early 19th century feminists what they were like their big argument was for lesbian communes they were like this what we need
00:25:56
Speaker
They need, we're going to get rid of all the mess. They were like, thinking come in and like, you know, seed a baby if they want. i one leave yeah Like it was very, was that was a very strong argument. and for for Oh my God. Anyway, so i I used a lot of these real historical texts. um But I didn't make as big of a deal of like, these are real. I was kind of like, oh, if people look it up, that's cool. If not, whatever.
00:26:18
Speaker
But for Ladies and Heating, I like make a huge deal about like, these are real texts. Because when you write a queer historical, like you gotta know people are gonna... be Like, this is real. This is really happening. Like, I cannot tell you how many people have asked me, like, did this really happen? And i'm like, yes. Like, these are real books that they're talking about. I reference, like, real queer people that they could have known, that they could have hung out with. Like, there were...
00:26:44
Speaker
um So many real historical examples that people would have known, like that that could have that could have come up in conversation. So there was like a very famous um lesbian in the Regency named Anne Seymour Dahmer. And like this woman had a lot of games. She had a lot of of of girlfriends to the point where if you were trying to find out if like your female friend was queer, you would say, do you visit Mrs. Dahmer?
00:27:12
Speaker
Oh, I love that. So yeah, so I really wanted to make that super clear. And you know, you were talking in the beginning about like learning and kind of discovering your own sexuality through reading and through text.
00:27:27
Speaker
And that's something that that the heroines in Ladies in Hating talk about is how impactful it was. for them to have access to these books. um And they have very different journeys with their own queerness. One of them, her dad was queer. So that really is something that just gives her a lot more of a sense of of feeling safe and feeling, you know, normal and not feeling ashamed. um And the the other character does not have that. And it is something that she...
00:27:57
Speaker
feels a lot more hesitant about about herself and about accepting that part of her own identity um but they both have they they kind of they kind of grow up together so they both have like the same library and they both have access to these same books and they talk about how important that representation was and I and I made sure to only reference like real books that they really could have have read nice I love that that Did you have to do just, like, so much research for this series?
Researching Authentic Queer Elements
00:28:24
Speaker
Yes and I mean, yes, in the sense that, like, I did not know every single one of these books.
00:28:30
Speaker
But I am a professor, you know? so like, I don' know i i know a lot of books. You know, like, Already and i and I feel like um I would say that I've always loved historical romance. I started reading historical romance when i was 11. But it wasn't until I finished my PhD that I felt like I really had the skills necessary to like to do the kind of research that I that I would want to do to write this that really is grounded in real history. So so I did do a lot of research but like in a very fun way. And I mean, yeah, it's just wonderful.
00:29:03
Speaker
ah I love that. i Yeah, I can imagine there's just a whole wealth of like fun things to find when you start looking into like the primary text from 200, 300 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. I have, I co-wrote an article um that's published through History News Network, which is like a public history site um with the University of Richmond with a friend of mine who's also a professor um of like photography, specifically like French photography of the 19th century. um And I think it's called like On a Hunt for Historical Erotica, We Found Lesbians.
00:29:33
Speaker
is like that the headline um so yeah so if you want to learn more about how i how we both found so many 19th century lesbians um that information is I will hunt that down um so yeah as I mentioned we're doing the Breaking the Default series and I just I guess i wanted to get like any thoughts that you might have on the idea of like there being a sort of default identity in a lot of stories or in publishing as a entity um and like how that affects you as a writer
00:30:09
Speaker
of stories whether they're queer as in sapphic or queer as in bisexual mf like or if they're just two straight people you know like because i i know you said that sometimes people will say like well if you started an mf you should stay an mf and i'm like that sounds so boring you should just write everything Yeah.
Evolution of Queer Representation
00:30:27
Speaker
No, I think that was kind of the general wisdom for a long time. And I think really just now is that starting to to have some flexibility and and for publishing to kind of accept that that's not necessarily true. But that was definitely, I mean, even...
00:30:42
Speaker
Even people I know who are writing right now have been told that same advice by their agents or by their editors. So, yeah, it's it's definitely a thing. You know, it's it's interesting because so much has changed from when I grew up reading romance, right? Like, it was, it was like, inconceivable that you would have non-straight main couple for the longest part.
00:31:07
Speaker
And I remember, so i like I said, I started reading romance when I was 11, and I was always a voracious romance reader. um And I remember... um Suzanne Brockman was the first writer to, um in kind of a mainstream big five romance publisher, to to do a queer story.
00:31:31
Speaker
And she, and it was a huge deal. Like she, through you know, RWA, like Romance Writers of America, like yeah gave her an award for like whatever. But then they told her in her award speech, she wasn't allowed to talk about marriage equality.
00:31:46
Speaker
And yeah, I mean, it was this is like 2007, I want to say. Yeah. um And I mean, I remember all of the stuff so clearly just like watching this shift. And RWA, which is the Romance Brothers America, does not exist anymore for many good reasons than it did at the time exist. yeah And they had a ah vote, an internal vote about was queer romance allowed?
00:32:11
Speaker
like people were voting, would the definition in their bylaws be one man and one woman? And this is like, again, this is like 2007. Like this is this is not like the deep historical past. Like I remember it all happening. So ah yeah, so Suzanne Brockman, I think, um was a huge pioneer in that. I remember she wrote very lovingly about her son who was queer. um and i and and I think...
00:32:40
Speaker
There was a lot of sense of like, oh, readers aren't going to like it. You know, like, oh, who's the audience for this? And readers loved it. Like, readers love a good love story. I mean, and I still remember like, oh, just like dying for this. She was so good. Suzanne Brockman, she would like seed the stories and then you'd get little bits of their like romance over like two or three books. And by the time like we got to like Jules and Robin's story, I was like dying. You know, I was oh, please just let them get together. Just let them be in love. You know, um And so I think things have obviously vastly changed, right? And again, this is all fairly recent. Like, the first, like, sapphic romances were coming out in, like, 2017.
00:33:21
Speaker
Like, I mean, obviously there were there were many, like, let small lesbian presses that were doing things for much longer, but, like, from the big five presses, we're talking, like, it hasn't even been 10 years that, like, that you know, yeah that these books were coming out. So so I think the default is is is less default-y.
00:33:37
Speaker
And I think... Their publishing as an industry is so conservative and they're so like, who is this for? Who's going to like it? and And we really have to prove ourselves every time that like, no, people just want to read a love story. They're not going to you know, even like Heat of Rivalry. Are you watching Heat of Rivalry? Yeah. I have, I was, I promised myself I wouldn't talk about heated rivalry for one podcast episode, but I was like sitting here going like, you're going to break that promise. Yeah. Like it's, it's like such a, like people love it.
00:34:07
Speaker
Even though like. i have I have not been able to stop. getting I have every single day I've been, I've been, what about heated rivalry? I know I wake up thinking about it. It's all I think about. Yeah, exactly.
00:34:20
Speaker
No, but even they were like, who is going to be on it? Who's going watch this? like, guys, everyone. Everyone. Like, that they talked about it while the ball was dropping on New Year's Eve. Like, come on Yes.
00:34:33
Speaker
That's saturation if I've ever seen Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I think publishing is just does not give enough credit to people. I think you're so right. Like, it's, you know, like we tell writers, an off repeated craft advice is like, trust your reader, right? Like, you don't have to handhold them through every single detail. You can trust that they'll pick up on clues and hints. But then we turn around and we're like, yeah, but we can't trust the, we can't trust them to like care.
00:35:01
Speaker
It's like, well, actually... And I think publishing should trust its writers to be able to write stories that can like make someone care. Like I, I've read books that are too white suffix and I haven't given a shit about it versus like, I'm, I'll read heated rivalry. And I'm like, I am neither a hockey player, an athlete, a man, like I'm none of these things. And I care so much and so deeply. And it's like, well, that's, that's a craft issue really. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
00:35:32
Speaker
Yeah, so i yeah I'm just thinking about like, I am stuck on the like, publishing needs to like, trust its readers. And like, and I think obviously part of it is
00:35:45
Speaker
a feeling of like, if you're not an ally, like the person making the calls, and I'm not making any comments about any named people because I don't know them. But like, it's hard to imagine someone caring about something that if you don't care about it.
00:35:59
Speaker
Right. And and what I, I used, I, it took me a while to realize I was queer. And so I was like, for a couple of years, I was like, I'm such a great ally. Like, pearl you know, people care about queer stories that aren't queer. Oh, just kidding. It's me. um And, but I'll talk to my friends who are like, you know, exceedingly heterosexual women. And they're like, they care just as much if not more about marriage equality, queer rights, like,
00:36:27
Speaker
queer representation. And it just, it's really refreshing to me to see it and to remember that, like, you don't have to share an identity to care about those people. And that goes, you know, beyond just caring about their romance, but like caring about their way of their quality of life, even. um And I do think, I don't know, I think talking about romance is talking about big questions like quality of life and like ability to fine love is connected to so many other
Historical Queer Narratives and Hope
00:36:59
Speaker
things. um
00:37:01
Speaker
But yeah, I, okay. I had like 17 thoughts and I don't know if I got them all out, but I tried. Yeah. So I guess my next question, which kind of ties in, we might've talked about it a little bit, but like in your opinion and your experience, like what is the value in writing these stories, both for the writers and for readers, like in writing these stories that aren't,
00:37:27
Speaker
the same ones that we've been told since, I don't know, a long time ago. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, i think I, maybe we have touched on this a little bit, but I mean, I think especially like writing historical, like think there's so much value and it's so important to point to, these love stories that have existed. the the you know, in in in Ladies in Hating, I talk about this um poem that was written in the 1830s and published in the 1860s. And it's this really beautiful poem about... um
00:38:05
Speaker
about queer love and it's also an argument for like the rights of queer people um so you know at the time um like uh sex between men was criminalized not interestingly sex between women like that was never criminalized like i think there was a sort of sense of like what are they doing i There would be no sex without a man involved because men are everything. it's the problem um But sex between men was criminalized um in the period. And so it's very, it's a very sort of strong um argument against that and and a defense of, you know, it's very like love is love. It's very, very charming to read this 19th book.
00:38:51
Speaker
kind of rousing defense and poem. um And I think it's so important to see like that that argument is being made you know almost 200 years, well, literally like 200 years ago. yeah And it's it's frustrating to see sometimes like, we're wow, we are still making the same argument. you know um But I also think just knowing that history is really important and really valuable. Yeah.
00:39:20
Speaker
Yeah, and I think um one one question that I get asked sometimes is like, could like two queer people like be happy?
00:39:31
Speaker
Could they like live happily ever after, right? And I think that people are really good at like finding ways to be happy and finding like ways to have the love stories that they want that are important to them, kind of whatever that looks like in whatever form. So I always really like to talk about like people who really did live happily ever after. Like there's this really um famous Regency lesbian couple called the Ladies of Flangofflin. And they were very well known in the period. One of them was the daughter of an Earl. Yeah. And they eloped together more than once. The first time we were together, they were caught and like sent back. And then they like eloped again like a week later. um And then their family sort of gave up. they were like, all right, fine. You can do whatever. You're obviously not going to do what you're supposed to do. um And people were fascinated. I mean, it's juicy, right? like that's right right like If that's like some celebrity's daughter, like you'd be into it. You'd be following along. on For sure. you know? Yeah. They did it again. i't know they
00:40:37
Speaker
um So but the the funny thing is um Queen Charlotte, like as in the show, Queen Charlotte was like super into their story and she persuaded George to give them a pension to live on.
00:40:50
Speaker
um so they live for 50 years in a little cottage together in wales um on a royal pension um yeah and they were they they were sort of like local celebrities like to go and like byron went and visited them and wordsworth went and all these things oh my god but yeah they they they were happy they were literally happy they were after they they have these um one of them kept journals room for eleanor and sarah um and they one of them who kept these journals they are so boring they're like we
00:41:21
Speaker
We had a beautiful lunch in the garden. had out loud. And then we went to A perfect day. You know, I mean, like, actually, a happily ever after is a very boring story. Right. if My favorite part about their journals is that one of them called the other B. their names are Eleanor and Sarah. Like, there is no B. But it stands for beloved. Stop.
00:41:44
Speaker
I know. oh my God. No. No, it's too sweet. I can't handle it. Oh, my girls. Famously, they had a string of dogs and and they were all named Sappho. Like each time the dog would die, they would get another one and also name Sappho again.
00:42:01
Speaker
Oh, I love them. oh my God. No, I love them so much. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:10
Speaker
So question was, why are these stories important? And I think it is really important to like to know that history and to see that history. And I think it's like it's important to read books with representation. It's important to grow up and see like older queer people who have like lived. like it It helps you as a young queer person have a sense of like that there is a life. There is a way of building this life that I want. um So I think if we can do that historically, like that's even yeah more powerful. Yeah.
00:42:36
Speaker
um Not to bring up heated rivalry again, but I'm gonna. I've seen, I spend 90% of my day on threads and my threads feed is just heated rivalry. And I've seen a couple, like a genre of posts that's like older queer man watching the show being like, you know, I lived through the worst of the AIDS epidemic and like lost friends and stuff. We couldn't have imagined this like,
00:43:03
Speaker
this means a lot. Now I'm going to cry. i just cry so easily. But um it's like, I just, it's important for like, it's important for all the generations, right? Like the, we need young people to see these stories so that they can have like hope and inspiration and be like, oh, you know, let's make the world better. But also I think older generations also deserve to be, to see them, their communities, their identities represented and to see, you The Happily Ever After. And I am never going to say like you shouldn't write stories where there is suffering because some people, that's the story they want to tell.
00:43:38
Speaker
But also I think like we should have an and kind inclusive, like a broad spectrum where like the Happily Ever After so, so powerful. I mean, and this is is another Canadian show, but I watched Schitt's Creek as I was sort of figuring out that I was bi. And I remember...
00:43:56
Speaker
every single time David and Patrick had like a conflict arise I was so scared because I was like they're gonna break up like it's gonna it's gonna be uh devastating and then what it wouldn't and I was like why am i like why am I crying as though this is personal to me like why do I feel like I personally and given and given a gift by this storyline and I think like that is the beauty of of showing this is like allowing people to see like, there is a way forward, like to have a happy life. And like, it might not look the way you were taught. It was going to look. I mean, I was like a 12 year old and I was like, I'm going to have my first baby at 19. And then I'm going to have 19 of them. And I'm going to, I don't, I was insane. Um,
00:44:39
Speaker
And I was like, and I'm going to marry a man and it's going to be so good. And like within five or six years, I was like, oh, actually, like my plan for my future is totally different. And it was, I'm really lucky that I, I mean, the first queer book I read was um Simon versus the Homo Sapiens Agenda, which is, you know, foundational. But I'm really lucky that I,
00:45:02
Speaker
was coming into my identity as there was a wealth of queer YA and queer romance. um Because I never sort of doubted that there was a a path forward. And it allowed me to be really brave when I came out to be like, I'm going to like stake my claim and be proud and like be who I am. And I'm not going to be ashamed of it just because my everyone I know from back home thinks I should be ashamed of it you know so yeah yeah and and I and like you said I think that that it is so important for there to be different types of stories too right and I think that that can be hard with any kind of group that is not doesn't see themselves represented a lot right so then you do finally and you're like oh this is the book and then you read it and you're like, well, that's not
Diverse Queer Stories in Media
00:45:49
Speaker
me. That's not my story. And so I think, you know, like, for to bring it back to Hita Rhymery, like Jordan Pursman being like, that's not how gay love that that's not how gay men have sex, right?
00:45:59
Speaker
And like, I am sure that it is frustrating to see this thing and feel like I am not represented in this. um But I think that means we need all the shows. You know, we need we need every show. We need every book. we need We need more. Not that this one is wrong bad, just because it's not, you know, first, you know, Jordan Versamilts like view.
00:46:21
Speaker
But, um you know, to to have um all different kinds of stories represented so that more people can see themselves. And and it doesn't feel that then that that way it doesn't feel like hurtful.
00:46:35
Speaker
When yeah you see everyone's talking about the story, but you don't feel represented by that. It purports to represent you. Right? so And it doesn't feel like the weight on the shoulders of each individual. Like, you're not carrying the weight to represent your entire community. You're just representing your story or your version or your imagination. like Right. right Yeah. i Yeah, there's been a lot of conversation that... A lot of it that I'm like, well, this is is not my place to, like...
00:47:04
Speaker
be a part of a lot of the conversations that have happened around like um why heated rivalry is the story that juggernauded to its current status but I really my hope is that it will It will open doors and like that someone somewhere will be given an opportunity because an executive or a studio head or a publishing dude was like, oh, we could make a lot of money from this, which I mean, i wish they would do it for other reasons, but it's capital. proposalal But in the world we live in that is the one. And let's take it. I'll take it. Yeah, um i totally I totally agree. um
00:47:49
Speaker
And I just even like for me, i have another sapphic that'll be out in 2028. So kind of a little bit down the road, but it's it's again the third book in a series. um and it's a very different story than ladies and gays right like it's ah the heroines are different their relationship with gender is different their relationship with coming out is different um so yeah i hope i hope that you know people are receptive to do a different version of a historical sapphic story yeah i think they're
00:48:23
Speaker
There is room. We just sometimes manufacture... We being... Not like, you know, the royal we or whatever. Like, there's a manufactured sense of scar scarcity sometimes. Um...
00:48:37
Speaker
And I don't know that that's always like an accurate representation of what is possible. Right. You know, like it's like, oh, well, but we we can't, you know, have three shows that are so similar. It's like, well, you could actually, because ah one thing I've learned from romance readers is like, we're voracious. And I thought I read a lot. And then I met people who were like, yeah, I read like 200 Kindle Unlimited books and they're all werewolf shifter romances because,
00:49:04
Speaker
they're like that's my thing and I want 12 billion of it yeah that's like real game fiction right like yeah I love this thing and I want it again I want to feel that way again just you know maybe a little tweak maybe this time right jop maybe this time for one of them is a vampire but like I you know I want to feel those yeah and absolutely yeah I think so much of um What I love about romance is that it is very, like, feelings forward and it is, um it honors and respects, like, that you want to feel emotions when you're reading. And and again, like, there's room for everything. Like, I'm i'm thinking specifically of like, I'll read...
00:49:42
Speaker
some interviews with like lit fake authors or something. And they're like, I just, you know, like the sentence structure is the most important or like this and that. And I'm like, well, okay, that's good. And I'm glad that you like that. There's room for that. And also there's room for this.
00:49:55
Speaker
Yeah. um You know, like there's no one supreme genre or whatever. Yeah, yeah i think I think you're right. And i you know I teach a lot of literary fiction as a professor, so I read a lot of literary fiction. yeah and But definitely, my favorite literary fiction has a lot in common with my favorite romances in that there's a deep exploration of character, in that you know these characters are complicated and sometimes they mess up.
00:50:20
Speaker
And and that yeah that it makes me feel, right? like then it That it makes me feel. like I love Sally Rooney. her book make me feel like no other but I also want to be like they could be happy did you know that Sally like it would be okay they were happy at the end you know I read one and then I need like a two-year break yeah it felt so much and I just want them to be happy yeah that's so fair um
00:50:52
Speaker
I wrote this next question and was like, what value do romance books add to the gen to the publishing
Romance's Value in Diverse Narratives
00:50:59
Speaker
industry? And then I had like, immediately was like, well, but do they need to be adding value to like be worth writing? And so I'm just like opening that up to like,
00:51:09
Speaker
yeah um Yeah. You know, it's funny because I actually like jotted down some notes in response to your question. and And for that, I was like, we should talk about like more representation and different, which we've literally just talked about, um you know? yeah um yeah But I mean, I do think that that that is like a huge inherent value um to publishing, know,
00:51:32
Speaker
as you say, books that that break the default. um And even if it's not representing me, even if it's like not my favorite way of writing a book or whatever, like the value is that it exists, that that story exists.
00:51:47
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah, so i yeah, I mean, I do, I do think that there is an inherent value to publishing different types of of stories and different types of love stories and seeing different people get HEAs that wouldn't have gotten an HEA, you know, that that wouldn't have been something we could we could even think of when I started reading romance, you know, in 1998.
00:52:10
Speaker
Yeah. I think of, um I'm just like going back to the, what you said about RWA and the like vote on whether queer romance counts in like 2007. And I like a very standout, like a core memory of mine is 2015, the day that um the Supreme Court handed down, it was 2015, wasn't it? The marriage equality. think Obergefell was 2008, right?
00:52:37
Speaker
Um, don't know i know. some states were earlier. um team yeah, yeah. Okay. Cause I was, I had just graduated college. i know it's so recently.
00:52:49
Speaker
um but I remember it because i I, had just graduated college and I was like, it was a very conservative college. Like there were no out queer students because they would have been kicked out. Um, and,
00:53:04
Speaker
But I was at a place, I guess, where i was able to feel happiness about this. And then I saw, like, a lot of hate from Christians on Facebook. And then I got really angry. And then I made a Facebook post. And then everyone wrote my parents to be like, is Kara's gay? um It was a great time. But...
00:53:22
Speaker
Wow. All that to say, it's like a standout memory of, like...
00:53:28
Speaker
This happened because, like, people fought for it. And people... not just queer people but also allies and part of that i think is because it's not the only way to gain empathy but ah a really great way to gain empathy is to hear people's stories and that's why I always was bad at my tech jobs because they were like give me numbers and I was like all know is like Dan from Iowa thinks we should do something else you're so right that's such a good point absolutely yeah yeah And, you know, it it requires the work, like, I think change and progress requires the work of so many different people, so many different people working together. One of my good friends it works for the ACLU and has been involved. Actually, I was just texting her yesterday. She's oh, in D.C. She was actually, like, she texted me a picture of my books in a bookstore. She's like, this is what I'm doing in between, like, moots. I was like, I ain't moots.
00:54:21
Speaker
Yeah. But i'm glad I'm glad looking at my queer book in a bookstore. I love that. Saving our country. Thank you. love But, you know, but she and I have been talking about heated rivalry nonstop. Right. And I just all of these things are working together. Stories, legislators and activists. ah And like, you know, it takes it takes it all. yeah It's all part of i I again on threads, i made a post. It was like a screenshot of something I wrote in my notes app where I was like, OK, I think.
00:54:51
Speaker
And i it started out like on the personal, and then I was like, what if we expanded this to like the global? But it was, like i think, part of what I have found really refreshing, not just about heated rivalry, but specifically about... like um the two main actors like seeing them also get like their flowers essentially was like it reminded me that dreams can come true that like you can go from being a waiter to a superstar like a global megastar in like six months or whatever like overnight it feels like because it
00:55:23
Speaker
I feel like for a long time I felt very stagnant and I felt like the world isn't doing big swings and like big dreams aren't coming true. And that seeing that on like that personal level kind of allowed me to look to pull back and be like,
00:55:36
Speaker
okay, so if that's possible on a personal level, like what's possible on a like political global scale? Like, and I think that was like hope that I really needed because that we can, you know, take down the fascist regime that's ruling America.
Happy Endings and Resilience
00:55:51
Speaker
And like, it wasn't just heated rivalry. It was also, you know, the elections in November that like, I live in New York and it,
00:55:57
Speaker
has been really nice to have like a good mayor for the past seven days um and it just I think that hope is so vital yes and I think yes because otherwise you just give up and like that's when you lose like i don't know I used to get so mad because I'd be like I'm quitting writing I can't get published and my friends would be like the only way to fail is to stop trying and I was like stop it like you're but you're bothering me but it's true because like The only way to fail is to stop trying. Like, there's always hope as long as where there's a will, there's a way. As long as there's, you know, life, there's hope. but And I think stories are and romance especially because it it has that H.E.A. and it has that guarantee and it has that, like...
00:56:44
Speaker
You're going to get, like, the happy ever after is coming. It gives the hope. And I think of so many people are, like, in the final minutes of the finale of Heated Rivalry, like, waiting for something bad to happen. that's right. No, it's a romance. you Like, are they going to get hit by a car? I didn't even finish the credits because I was crying too hard um at the end of that episode. And i like it did not cross my mind that something bad would happen because I've read a lot of romance. But like for people who aren't fully enmeshed the romance genre, it's like, oh god, like it's revolutionary to find hope like that.
00:57:19
Speaker
yeah um and ah and I think it's it's not cool to like hey and to lie it's cringe exactly being cynical is less cringe right and and I think that seeing these just like unabashedly hopeful things and unabashedly happy ending texts are so important like at yeah not I could not agree more Yeah, I'm, I need to do a whole, just, I actually think we are going to do a podcast episode for this where we just break down the whole TV show. But, like, i just remembered, like, ah you were saying, like um earnest like, earnestness and, like, hope can be cringe.
00:58:04
Speaker
And I remembered, like,
00:58:07
Speaker
I don't want to... I need to phrase this correctly so it's not like a spoiler if someone hasn't watched the finale. But the one special scene where Ilya cries when they're sharing, the fact that they showed that and that there's this like big macho like hockey player who's like a ladies man and everything and he just cried. It's like, well, that's also kind of revolutionary. like That it's okay for anyone to cry.
00:58:32
Speaker
even a man. Yeah. i i I have been, i mean, one of the things I have loved so much about this adaptation is how earnest it is. I mean, it is loving. It is earnest. They're not embarrassed about it being horny. They're not embarrassed about the feelings. I mean, it has been so, you can tell that everybody involved, like, valued it and believed in it.
00:58:58
Speaker
Yes. It's really refreshing. like he is refreshing. It's really nice. And I think that's why people have responded to it. Like, when you put your heart out there, I think many people want that and will give their hearts back.
00:59:11
Speaker
And there's always going to be, like, a cohort of people who are like, oh, no, it's cringe. It's too much. But there's always going to be haters. Right. We don't need them. The haters, as Taylor Swift so famously said, haters going to hate.
00:59:26
Speaker
Um, okay, I've got two more questions. Um, one is which we're going to talk about like book recommendations. But before then, I'd love to know what is the best thing about writing queer romances to you as an author?
Found Families in Queer Narratives
00:59:40
Speaker
Um, I, so many things, but I'm going to say, I kind of like went through a lot of thoughts as I was thinking about this, this question. um Maybe one thing that I was thinking about is like queer families. Because I think like in real life, queer people often, like,
01:00:01
Speaker
have their little found family. Like, I think that's very real. Um, you know, like we find each other. Yeah. Um, and there's something very special about those friendships and, and the love of those friendships. So all of my books have, whether they're MF or not, um, have like these found families and have these oftentimes queer found families. Um,
01:00:28
Speaker
I love to write about love and not, and obviously like I'm writing around myself, of course, but like all different kinds of love, like family love, which can be very complicated. Right. And like frustrating. And sometimes you're like, i love you, but like also to stop calling me or, you know, whatever it is, and whatever it is.
01:00:47
Speaker
But I love to write about that. And like friend love, like those like ride or die friendships. I love to, I love to write a scene where like the best friend is like, I love you so much, but you need to like,
01:00:58
Speaker
you're you're acting wrong you know I know yeah exactly you know you're you're you're the love of your life is over there and you're being you're being you're not paying attention you know that's an iconic scene genre yes exactly and I love to write it because I love to write that kind of like love that's such a deep foundation that you can say that kind of thing. And the person will know like that it's, that it's coming from a place of love. So I think my favorite thing about writing lots of queer characters, whether they're the main romance or whether they're not the main romance, um, is writing those families, especially like multi-generational, um, You know, it's so funny. Someone was like, you always have like a queer uncle. And I was like, do I? And I was like, oh, yeah, I do. And I think that that has to be. So I grew up in like a big Catholic family. I'm Italian. and My family is like big, huge. But like I have a lot of like gay uncles and lesbian aunties. I don't know. i think like props to my family for being like very Catholic and very like lots of kids. But like they were totally like 100 percent. Like that was just like so and so and his like and yeah, and it was just part of how I grew up with that kind of ah generation.
01:02:10
Speaker
um and So obviously that like had a really big impact on me as a person. And I definitely have been putting it into all my books. I love that. My goal, um because I didn't have people that I knew were queer growing up, so my goal is to be, like, the gay auntie who, like, lives in New York and is like, I'm here. If you need anything, like, I've got, I'm here. um i love that, though, that um that your family was accepting and, like, open about your queer and aunts and uncles. um
01:02:46
Speaker
And this is, like, a total... aside but I I talk about Italy a lot in therapy because I grew up there and my therapist is Italian and yeah we keep talking about how like I was shocked when I went back to Italy a couple years ago and I had to come out to people from my parents church and they were just like okay and I was like wait no you're supposed to be horrified and my therapist is is like yeah like that's very Italian of them and it's very Catholic of them and it's very Italian Catholic to just be like whatever like it's your life um And so that's what I thought of when you were saying like props to your family. Like it is props to your family. And also I think like it might it's like a cultural thing too to just be like it's your path in your life. Like it doesn't actually affect me. Very interesting. I did not know that.
01:03:29
Speaker
have you Have you ever had Allie Hazelwood on the podcast? she's tall No, but I want to have Allie Hazelwood on the podcast. She's great, and she's Italian, and my new series has a fictional Italian principality. Oh, I love that. A lot of Italian, and she has been really great, and she's been helping me. Oh, I love that. to be good Italian and not horrible.
01:03:50
Speaker
yes That's so funny. I didn't know Allie was Italian, and then I heard her speak once in a talk, and I was like, that's an Italian accent. I got so excited. She's so wonderful. She's an absolutely wonderful person.
01:04:05
Speaker
Yeah. um Do you have any romance novels that you would
Queer Romance Book Recommendations
01:04:09
Speaker
like to recommend? Queer ones, specifically? Yeah, absolutely. i love this question. um You know, I was so i was like trying to think about like different ones. um i One of my favorite romance novels is... um you made a fool of death with your baby have you ever read that um i haven't yes but they're both bi and it feels it feels like a very queer mf like if someone were to ask me like what does a queer mf book look like i would definitely like send them that one yeah
01:04:41
Speaker
And there is a lot of, like, queer found family in that one. And it's just so gorgeously stunningly written. They're a wonderful writer. They love their stuff. um And another one of my all-time favorite authors is Kat Sebastian. um Her book, She's So Lucky, is one of my all-time favorite books. um I made my husband read it. I was like you like baseball. Right.
01:05:07
Speaker
you know yeah it's just I love that book but I'm reading Cats After Hours at Dooryard Books right now and it is so wonderful and I'm just crying constantly I feel like I'm so excited to read that right tender way you know like not in a I'm crying because I'm sad but just like I'm crying getting to my heart so much yeah there are so many yeah Those are excellent recommendations. My friend, Laura Piper Lee, has a hilarious... Just like a different... Not crying. Maybe a little crying. But mostly laughing. He's so, so funny. And her sapphic book came out last year. It's called Zoe Brennan First Crush. And it...
01:05:55
Speaker
It came out about a year ago. I think was like January 25. So about a year ago. It is so funny. It is so like rollicking and funny. And there's like goat. and But then like it's also so loving. And there is a great, great, great queer, queer mountaineers, um great queer found family in that in that series.
01:06:14
Speaker
Oh, I love that. Okay. Amazing. Thank you. Is there anything else that is on your mind or that I should have asked or that you wanted to bring up? I don't think so. I predicted that this would be like the heated brownie.
01:06:28
Speaker
that's that i Yeah. um Can you just let our listeners know how they can find you and support you and your upcoming books or your
Upcoming Sapphic Historical Romance
01:06:38
Speaker
existing books? Yeah. um So you can find me on my website, which is alexandravasty.com or various social media sites at alexandravasty.
01:06:48
Speaker
um My, yeah, my, my last book, book that came out last September September 2025 is the sapphic historical romance called ladies and hating and I do have a book coming out in February and February 17th which is a series of novellas that were originally self-published and now are coming out traditionally published in print and does feature a bi heroine in the first one very much like your classic like bisexual disaster like chaotic you know I loved her
01:07:20
Speaker
so much um yeah so that'll be out that'll be out in February amazing awesome well thank you so much for joining me today and talking about all things queer romance I had a blast thank you thank you so much for inviting me I had a wonderful time