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What are Tropes? feat. Jo Segura
2 Plays10 minutes ago
In the seventh episode of the The Write Way of Life’s ~Romance Season~, hosts Karis Rogerson & A.D Jolietta chat with author Jo Segura. Jo has written adventure romances including Raiders of the Lost Heart and the upcoming The Lust Crusade. Her books are swoony and romantic, fun and full of tropes, and Karis and Adi had a great time chatting about what tropes are, a few specific tropes, and how to write and market a book with tropes without making it just tropes.
Find Jo Segura online. Order her books, including preordering The Lust Crusade (out Jan. 13, 2026), and sign up for her newsletter.
The Write Way of Life is a craft-focused author interview podcast by Karis Rogerson & A.D Jolietta. Follow The Write Way of Life on Instagram or find us on our website. Follow Karis on Instagram and subscribe to her newsletter. Follow Adi on Instagram.
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Transcript
Introduction & Host Background
00:00:27
Speaker
Hey there, cuties. It is Karis Rogerson, host of the Right Way of Life podcast. I'm coming at you today solo as my co-host A.D. Gilletta is experiencing Alaskan weather. um Wi-Fi down edges or whatever that word should be.
00:00:43
Speaker
So I'm just here. I'm going to chit chat for a little bit and then I'll dive right into the episode, which was a really exciting one. This is the first in a new mini trilogy of episodes and we're talking tropes, baby. That's right. We're talking to a bunch of people about tropes, what they are, specific ones indeed, and also...
00:01:06
Speaker
Some um cautionary words, I guess, is the the best way to say that. So I'm really excited for all of these episodes. i You know me. I'm having a blast. I love a podcast. I love to have a podcast. Like, let's go. um If you don't know me, my name is Karis Rogerson. I am an author, a reader, and a podcaster. i have a debut novel coming out June 23, 2026. It is called Nat and Cammie's Guide to Writing an Undercover GSA, and it will be indie published by yours truly. You can add it on Goodreads or pre-order it for ebook on Amazon if that is what you want to do.
00:01:46
Speaker
Um, I am also a podcaster. I have this podcast and I have another one which just launched yesterday. It's called Publishers Brunch with Karis and it's specifically where I talk to romance authors as though we're at brunch together. It's a grand old time.
00:02:03
Speaker
And I am coming at you direct from Brooklyn.
Challenges & Writing Resilience
00:02:09
Speaker
It is Sunday, December 7th, 2025. ah The year, this year has been in so many ways hellish for so many people. um Just like the the vibes were rancid. The fascism was close and encroaching. the Bad times. um And i I feel like my my tone of voice makes it sound like being glib, but I'm like dead serious. Like it's been a bad year um for a lot of people for a lot of reasons. And for me personally, it's been like a really hard mental health year.
00:02:45
Speaker
There were some bright spots, but also just like really fucking tough. And i Just this past week, I was in one of my worst, like, mental episodes that I've had in the past ah six months, probably.
00:03:02
Speaker
um Thankfully, i have a great team of healthcare care professionals, including an incredible therapist and a psychiatrist who's willing to play around with my medication. And I have hopes that I can get back in the ketamine groove um in the new year, because that is what helped this summer was ketamine infusions. Wow. miraculous truly changed the game but yeah it's just it's been tough um I've written a lot of really sad poems I've come up with some metaphors that um pretty dark so exciting times for that for the creativity um not so good for the mental
00:03:43
Speaker
In addition to writing those poems, though, I'm also outlining my hopefully second indie release, another way another book that you will find out about eventually.
00:03:54
Speaker
And I'm working on a side secret project and I'm... hoping that my latest revision on my adult debut that's with my agent right now, I'm hoping that it is good to go out on subs soon. So lots of exciting things in the
Guest Introduction: Joe Segura
00:04:09
Speaker
writing life. In the reading life, I just started The Three Lives of Kate K by Kate Fagan. is about a girl who is an actor and an author and she keeps changing her name and pseudonyms and horrors persist. It's, it's sapphic?
00:04:30
Speaker
It's leaning sapphic, and I'm loving it. Um, I'm only like 30% in, so that's why I don't really know what I'm talking about when I'm talking about the book, but it's been a ride so far and I'm just, I'm along for it. Uh, I love the multiple POVs that we're getting because it's, it's written as though it were Kate K's memoir, the the titular Kate K, if you will. And she reached out to people from her past to have their own sections. So that's exciting.
00:05:04
Speaker
um Is there anything else I can say? um Everybody in the comments, say something nice about Addie if you leave us a comment.
00:05:14
Speaker
um Do it, please. Today's episode talked about tropes with Joe Segura. USA Today bestselling author Joe Segura lives in the Pacific Northwest with her doggo, who vies for her attention with his sweet puppy dog eyes whenever she's trying to write.
00:05:30
Speaker
Jo's stories feature strong, passionate heroines and draw upon aspects of her life, such as her love of good food and great cocktails, mood, dancing, her Mexican heritage, and her fascination with archaeology, which inspired her debut rom-com, Raiders of the Lost Heart, published December 2023 Berkeley Romance.
00:05:50
Speaker
When she's not writing, you can find her practicing law, perusing the aisles at Trader Joe's, or sitting out on the patio doing BuzzFeed quizzes. Though she doesn't care what the chicken nugget quiz said, her favorite fruit is not banana. And that's, that's real.
00:06:05
Speaker
All right, everyone. We are here with our incredible guest for today, Joe
Exploring Romance Tropes
00:06:10
Speaker
Segura. Joe, hello. Would you mind introducing yourself and sharing about your books a little bit?
00:06:16
Speaker
um Thank you for having me. I'm Jo Segura. I am the author of fun, zany adventure rom-coms inspired by my love of Indiana Jones. My debut was Raiders of the Lost Heart and then came out Temple of Swoon. And then in January is the third book of the series, The Lust Crusade, which is my favorite of the three. And I guess it's kind of fitting because out of the original Indiana Jones movies,
00:06:46
Speaker
The Last Crusade is my favorite of those. That is perfect. I was so excited when I saw the announcement for Raiders of the Lost Heart. I was like, wait, come on.
00:06:59
Speaker
This is what we've been waiting. Like, this is what I've been missing in my life. um And it was such a fun book. Like, just. Mm. a romp. Incredible. I loved everything about it. So I'm super stoked for The Lust Crusade to come out and to see what else you do in future books, like where you take them. But as I mentioned, and as we will have discussed in the intro, we are getting started on a little series for the ah podcast about tropes.
00:07:29
Speaker
And so today with Joe, we're just going to talk about like tropes. Like what are they? How do they work? What Why we use them, you know, where all that good stuff. So can you perhaps give like a your working definition of like what is a trope and how does it work specifically in a romance novel?
00:07:49
Speaker
So i view tropes as those kind of tried and true plot devices that are used in many um romance books. They're things like enemies to lovers or friends to lovers or only one bed, found family. ah These are the things that a lot of romance readers come to expect in a romance book.
00:08:14
Speaker
But it's the way that an author puts their own spin on them that makes it fun and exciting. So even though these are things that you see in many romance books, they're always fresh and new because they're coming from a different author's perspective. And I, in particular, like to put like a little fun spin on those things as well. So um they're really these things that, you know, we we know we're going to find in a romance book, but But at the same time, they still are given to you in a way that is fresh and exciting. And ah it's just so fun to see what an author will do with those with those different tropes.
00:08:52
Speaker
Yeah. Do you have perhaps an example of like a trope that you've put in a book and given it like a fresh spin? Yeah, so I really like the only one bed trope. um I have done a little spin on that in Raiders. I did only one tent. And then in ah the Lust Crusade, I did only one bed, but the beds keep getting smaller and smaller.
00:09:14
Speaker
Oh my god. No, that's perfect. I love that. my My spin on Only One Bed that I've put in multiple books is like, oops, it's two beds. And then you have to like figure out a way to accidentally have to share the bed with your love and interest, even though there's a second bed.
00:09:28
Speaker
um Because all my romance characters are romance readers, so they'll be like, I'm going to a room with my love interest. I bet there's only one, there's two beds. What are you talking about?
Diversity & Depth in Romance
00:09:38
Speaker
Yes, I love that.
00:09:40
Speaker
um So that's always fun. And I love I was talking to someone yesterday about romance and about how you can take pretty much like the same story or premise, right? Like you can take...
00:09:53
Speaker
Two people lost in the woods and they hate each other. And you can assign that basic kickoff premise to six different romance authors and you're going to get six wildly different stories. Which I think is such a beautiful, just like testament to humanity's diversity and like how incredibly different we all are and how we can be inspired by the same thing and make... Our own unique spin on it. But I think what you were saying about tropes is so true too. Like two authors can both write enemies to lovers.
00:10:24
Speaker
And there's going to be some touchstones that are similar. But the overarching the story, they're going to treat it differently. And I think that's why, at least for me, I can read a bromance novel, just like i read bromance novels, like one right after the other, like finish one, pick up the next, let's go. And I never get sick of them because there's, there's just the little differences between each story.
00:10:47
Speaker
Exactly. Well, it's things like, you know, with enemies to lovers, why are they enemies? What is it that, um what's their backstory that got them to this point? And, you know, so you still have the the trope enemies to lovers, but each author is going to have their own take on that, whether it's rival archaeologists searching for the same artifacts in the Mexican jungle, or it's, you know, two restaurant owners who are are battling out for, you know best restaurant in the city, or, you know, if it's
00:11:19
Speaker
know people who work together and they're buying for the same promotion. It's all those different um backstories that really help to enrich the trope and in that author's own unique way.
00:11:35
Speaker
Yeah. And i I especially love Seeing, I'm thinking specifically of in Raiders of the Lost Heart, you've got um your two main characters who have a history. And I'm not going to say anything other than that. But it's so fascinating. You you meet them and you're like, ooh, I sense that there's like dislike. And then you realize why. And it it gives it so much more like depth. And it really, it does enrichen, enrichen? Well, yeah. Enrichens the whole story. And it makes you even more excited to see like how they're going to move past that.
00:12:08
Speaker
um One of the most exciting things for me about reading a romance novel is when I get to the point where I'm like, oh, man, they're never going to end up together. I know they're going to. But like, how? like How is the author going to make this work? um Yeah, that's always a fun part. Yes, I'm with you there. I love that, too. where you We know that it's going to be a happily ever after, but seeing how the author gets us there is always unique.
00:12:33
Speaker
I was reading, i recently picked up, um, Alexandra Bell floor is latest book. The devil she knows. And I was reading. It's so fun. moment i was reading the back cover copy. And I was like, this is so clever. Like it's like there, it's an impossible situation because you know, she needs her soul, but she can't give up her soul. And like, what's going to happen. And i was sitting at the, I went to her launch event and i was just sitting there reading the book going, Whoa, whoa.
00:13:00
Speaker
how's this going to work out? And then I was really excited to like read and write my own. yeahp Yeah. um So do you have, do you have any favorite tropes either that you like to read or that you like, like to put in every or as many stories as you can?
00:13:20
Speaker
I really like enemies to lovers or rivals to lovers because I just love seeing like Yeah. that like snarky banter between the two characters. I just find that really fun and entertaining. um I also like um second chance romance. I think that's kind of along the same lines, you know, where these people might not have had a you know, the opportunity to be together in the past, but they're given this second opportunity. I think that that's really fun. i I really like tropes where the main characters already know each other. So like it in um the lust crusade, it's best friends or brother's best friend.
00:14:04
Speaker
And um I always had to clarify that I have never been in love with my brother's best friend. Um, But there's just something about when the characters already have a history that, you know, maybe they were interested in each other at one point. Maybe they weren't. Maybe they are looking at each other in a new light. But it, you know, when you're getting into a romance book ah and you're starting the book.
00:14:31
Speaker
with the
Integrating Tropes Naturally
00:14:32
Speaker
characters already having that history, there's something that I really enjoy about that. Not that I don't still like um a book where they have their very first meet cute on the page. and That's also fun. But I do really enjoy the the tropes that involve characters who have a history, like enemies to lovers, brothers, best friend, um friends to lovers. Those, I love them all.
00:14:59
Speaker
I, I'm a friends to lovers truther. Like I'm like, that's my go-to, but I, I love what you were saying about where they already know each other. And it made me think of like the meet cute, which is such a standard, you know, like staple of the genre and thinking of ways that you can still sort of have a meet cute, even if you have a history, right? Cause it's just like, it' it's not necessarily your first meet cute. It's just the on page, like the moment that the sparks finally sort of click.
00:15:29
Speaker
yeah um the reason so Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I find so interesting when I'm writing things like friends to lovers. I have to I was writing one of um a friends lover story that has been giving me headaches because it's also got some magic in it. And apparently when I try and put magic in the story, I just like go a little crazy with it.
00:15:50
Speaker
But um but I was thinking through it and I was like, OK, but like, why now? Right. Like, why now do they start? to fall for each other because they've known each other this whole time. And that's a thing to think about is like what changes in how they see each other. And it can't just be, you know, well, I really like you how to go up. And so now I'm in love with you. It's like you proved that you do some, like you see me in a way or you help me in a way. And it made me think of you in this like new romantic lens.
00:16:19
Speaker
Yes. Wow. And yeah. It's a beautiful moment when you read that in a book, especially with, you know, like if it's if they're characters who have loved each other for a long time, they've just never admitted it. you That's that's even different than characters who suddenly see each other in a new light in the book. You know that where seeing that moment where it just like kind of flips, like where you're like, yeah.
00:16:48
Speaker
Okay. I'm reading um Atmosphere right now by Taylor Dinkins-Green. And I just got to the part where the character is like, oh, and looking at the you know the love interest in a new light.
00:17:03
Speaker
um And it's like halfway through the book or like you know at least over 100 pages into the book. And so to see it like build up and once it hits that moment, it's just so just delicious. Yeah.
00:17:15
Speaker
And there's so many ways that you can, I feel like, use like standard, well-loved tropes to create that moment. like I'm thinking of the ah so many people, especially fantasy lovers, are wound-tending. That's a huge trope for that connection between characters. And that, I think, can be a good one for sort of changing not the narrative, but like your your view of someone, right? Is like, you know, i assume it's a very intimate thing. I've never really had someone tend a wound in a sexually charged kind of way with me, but there's still time. There's always time. Yeah. of But I presume it's like a very like intimate kind of like, you know, oh and I'm seeing you as a caretaker and I'm seeing you as like someone who's like really worried about me and that changes everything.
00:18:08
Speaker
Yes. That is, um I love those types of scenes. I've got one of those in the Lust Crusade that is probably my favorite scene I may have ever written. I just, you know because they're, it's brother's best friend. they And they're very close. I mean, it's almost like a friends to lovers. So, you know, even though Theo is her brother's best friend, they've grown up together and they spent a lot of time together. So they've farmed their own friendship. And as I was writing the scene where she is tending to him, um it's like I saw it on the page. So as I'm writing, saw that moment where, you know, they they both had already had their crushes on each other. But this moment where it's so tender, but at the same time, it's so incredibly sexy.
00:19:03
Speaker
Oh my gosh. And enough there' nothing happens. ah But, you know, just to see that moment where it just kind of like clicks. Oh, I love it. It's so satisfying, too, to be like, this is what we've been working toward. Yes. When you're fight you're like, yes, this is what I wanted. Give it to me. Give me more. Yeah. um I'm thinking of of like, there's so many tropes that are like,
00:19:29
Speaker
universe well maybe not universally but like that feel universally beloved right like you're talking to romance readers and you say oh only one bad oh um wound tending and they're like whoa yes but then there's also tropes that people like to hate on and i guess my question here is like how do you what do you do as an author if you know you're going to use a trope that people are leery of how do you sort of make it work Regardless, I don't I don't know if I have ever used a trope that are is one of those types of tropes that people like, oh, I don't like that one. um However, I will say um because I get asked this question a lot and like or if I'm like doing a panel, this question will get asked like, what's your least favorite trope? And almost everybody will say secret baby.
00:20:20
Speaker
That word comes up all the time. And for a long time, I felt the same way. Like, oh, yeah, Secret Baby. I don't like that. But then it hit me after I, like, said this at numerous panels and that one of my favorite romance play has Secret Baby.
00:20:36
Speaker
And... I don't know why it like didn't hit me. Right. And so um I even saw Beverly Jenkins was doing ah um a, she was at a conference and this question came up and she said the same thing that she had said, Oh, I secret baby, but she wrote a secret baby.
00:20:58
Speaker
And so I think it's, You know, the way the author handles that trope um can really change someone's outlook on it. um it's done really well, then people will love it anyway. And, you know, if you're a good writer, if you're creative and you put your own unique take on it um people are still going to enjoy those those tropes that some people might otherwise think are no-go tropes. But like I said, I mean...
00:21:29
Speaker
one of my favorite books has Secret Baby and when it hit me I was like wow I've been singing out like Secret Baby but I guess I do. Yeah it is true that like it does depend on how it's handled and like so much I think of of things working in books comes down to whether it makes sense in the world of the book and in the world of those characters. Exactly. Well, it's like for Secret Baby specifically, like, well, why was it a secret? Was there something else going on in the characters' lives that, you know, it had to stay is secret, you know, or, you know, was it just something...
00:22:09
Speaker
where it wasn't necessary, but they did it. That's, I think, when people get angry where it's like, well, why did it have to be a secret? You know, kind of like miscommunication. you know a lot of people have an issue with mis miscommunication. don't think that's necessarily a troke, but, you know, it is a plot device that's used in a lot of romance books.
Crafting Believable Motivations
00:22:26
Speaker
and And I use it too, but to me it's, well, why was there that miscommunication?
00:22:32
Speaker
Why wasn't there an opportunity to clarify things earlier in the story? um And depending on how the author treats that particular plot device, I think it can be done really well. And if it makes sense for the story,
00:22:50
Speaker
then readers will eat it up if it doesn't make sense and if it's something where all it had to be was one very simple um conversation that would not have been controversial at all you know all you had to say is oh yeah that woman that you saw me with the other day that was my sister yeah you know like just say it right heaven Instead of like having a whole book where she thinks that he was cheating, you know, whatever the case may be. um So it's really how the author handles it that makes all the difference in the world. um Because you can do it really well and people will eat it up.
00:23:34
Speaker
This is not a book, but it reminds me of I watched The Wrong Paris, which is the Miranda Cosgrove Netflix movie romance that came out. Oh, yes. A bunch of show ago. um And I was like, first of all, I was like, this is delightful. This is so over the top. This is ridiculous. And I love it.
00:23:50
Speaker
But the um and I'm going to try and not like spoil the details for listeners. but Basically, like the the thing that sort of. does the third act breakup, I was like, I understand. But also, I don't think that there was enough given in the storyline of the movie for it to actually work for me. Because I was kind of like, now I don't like him anymore. Because, you know, he didn't ask enough questions.
00:24:16
Speaker
And that's all I'll say. So people watch the movie and you'll understand. But um but there's other times where... ah So in my... I'm working on an adult romance right now. And I had one of my characters keep a secret from her love interest. Or my main character keep a secret from her love interest. And I was like, great. This is amazing. So smart. And I like sent it to my agent. and He was like, Karis, why is she doing this? like It doesn't make sense why she's keeping it a secret. And I was like, oh.
00:24:43
Speaker
Okay, so that's that's a revision issue. Like, I need to just make this, like, clearer and, like, dive deeper into the character. And so much, I think, is is issues where it's, like, you just, you have to ask, like, constantly, like, why? Right? Like, why are you keeping this secret? Why aren't you sharing this? Why are you...
00:25:01
Speaker
I don't know, doing what the plot says you should do. and and Why does it matter for it to be? it ah and And if you can answer that question and, you know, it's like, well, OK, that makes sense. that Yes, you're doing it for a reason, not just because you are trying to make it more suspenseful for the reader, but because there's a reason between the two characters that as to why you're keeping something a secret uh i think that then that definitely can work yeah i think uh so many one thing i i say like all the time since i've been doing this podcast is like wow revision really is like a game changer which obviously I knew but also it's like so many of these issues like I write a first draft and it's just riddled with like well that's really shallow that doesn't make sense like yep I don't understand there's just only one bed but there's they're just they're not even at an end it's just like a bed in the woods like what's happening and and so much of the other work of reservation is going in into being like okay why did I do that doesn't make sense can I make it makes yeah exactly
00:26:05
Speaker
but revision the unsung hero of um well not even unsung hero just the hero of writing books or the bane of yeah the bane of author's existence for real um when you are coming up with a new story how do how and when do tropes sort of make their way into the brainstorming or planning phase um
Incorporating Tropes in Writing Process
00:26:33
Speaker
That's a great question. I think if the trope is like...
00:26:37
Speaker
something like about the character's history that usually comes in really early. you know, when I wrote Raiders, that was pretty much, I knew it was going to be enemies to lovers because I conceptualized this idea of Indiana Jones and Lara Croft going on a dig together and how they would totally hate each other, but they would totally have the hots for each other. So that book, like that was really based on the enemies to lovers trope.
00:27:06
Speaker
When I got to writing um The Lust Crusade, I wanted to go back to, ah because in Temple of Swoon, the main characters did not know each other in advance. They met each other in the first chapter. And so I wanted to go back to a trope where the main characters already knew each other, but I didn't want to do enemies to lovers again. um i wanted to do something a little bit different ah from what I had previously written. And so I thought of doing the brother's best friend trope um and came up with this idea for
00:27:42
Speaker
this, you know, the female main character to um have been in love with him and then he goes missing and so she thinks he's dead. And then surprise, he's not. ah so ah So those types of tropes I usually think of really early on when I'm doing my character development and trying to figure out who these characters are so that I can actually start writing the book. Other types of tropes like only one bed, and those usually come up during the actual drafting portion of the book.
00:28:12
Speaker
ah because, you know, I need to figure out a way to have them in a situation where there would only be one bed. um And it's not necessarily that I'm setting out that, oh, I need to write a scene in this book that has only one bed. But it just kind of happens as I'm working on the on the book. And some of them, there and it's not even a conscious, like, thought process. It's just these, again, these are the tried and true plot devices that um we all know and expect in romance books. And so as you're writing, they just kind of show up and it's like, oh, right, this is that particular trope. And okay, how can I make it a little bit different? so yeah
00:28:57
Speaker
Yeah, this is brings to mind a sort of like spicy thought about tropes, which is, I i think that's a, um that makes sense as a process, right? Like you're, the tropes serve the story almost, or they serve the characters, they serve the the plot. And I think that there is a a way of, maybe not writing, but there's a way of reading that's like tropes first, where it's like, I'm looking, and I think this is probably big on 803, which makes sense because
00:29:29
Speaker
If you're looking for fan fiction, it's because you want to see characters in, like, that situation, I think. um But the idea of, like, I want a book that's only one bad. I want a book that's got knife to throat. um Which I think is an interesting way of approaching books because i think that it can lead to perhaps, like, empty tropes, right? Like...
00:29:50
Speaker
you you You just you're shoehorning them in where they don't necessarily make sense. And I think like for me, I want to write a ton of books over the course of my life and my career. And so my hope is that I will eventually be able to touch on every trope.
00:30:04
Speaker
and so I don't necessarily I try to not like give in to the the part of my brain that's like put them all in this one book do everything it's like it's a contemporary romance throw in a knife like no that's not that's gonna that's gonna change everything my main character pulls out a knife on her love interest that's no longer a contemporary rom-com it's you know, a different story. You could make it work. It could be like cooking in the kitchen and then, you know, he says something and she's like, take it back and put that. That is so true. And that that's where it's like, it makes sense with the story, right? Like it's not, that's like a ah humorous twist on it. Not the supercharged. Like, um, yeah. But I, I think of this question because I normally, like when I write, I've never written a sequel.
00:30:53
Speaker
I've written nine novels and they've all been either standalones or like first in a projected series. And I was starting to plan out a potential sequel that in like a, in the sense of like a romance, like connected standalones sequel. And I was like, okay, great.
00:31:08
Speaker
I know who it is. i know who the characters are, but what is their plot? Like what makes the story go? And then I started thinking like, well, these are the things that I could like, insert into it to make it like, like the, they're gonna, um, have to do sex lessons, which is both a plot and a trope.
00:31:29
Speaker
And I was like, wonderful. Now, who does that make sense for? Um, and so it's interesting to me to think of like, how I approach stories and how sometimes each book requires a different approach.
00:31:42
Speaker
Like for the first book, it was just, I was writing and then whatever tropes happened to fall in was great. And then for the sequel, I'm thinking more like, okay, like who are these characters and what would make sense for them to do?
00:31:57
Speaker
Yes. Because I already know them, I think. um Which is a revelation where I'm having, like, as I speak, like, I think sort of having ah a basis of understanding for the characters before I start drafting, like a deeper basis because they've already been in the first book, sort of changes the calculus a bit. Huh.
00:32:15
Speaker
fascinating um see you were like just working out your drafting while we're talking i love that yeah it it happens a lot i have a lot of epiphanies on this um on this podcast so do you have any i guess like tips or tricks for aspiring authors or new authors or like yeah aspiring or yeah new authors to think about incorporating tropes or just like how they should go up like utilizing tropes both in their writing and then potentially like when marketing which is unfortunately something that we all have to do some people love it and it's not unfortunate for them but many people hate it and it is unfortunate um what are your thoughts on like
00:33:05
Speaker
how to do trope writing and trope marketing in a like story forward kind of way.
Marketing & Appeal of Tropes
00:33:11
Speaker
um I think it's important, kind of like we talked about earlier, to make sure that the trope fits with the story.
00:33:18
Speaker
yeah it doesn't fit with the story and you're just putting it in because you want to have, you know, an only one bed trope, um but it doesn't make any sense because they're never in a situation where there would be naturally there would be an only one bed situation, then, you know, it feels forced.
00:33:36
Speaker
And if, you know, I've definitely read books where it's just like trope after trope after trope after trope after trope. And sometimes it just it feels like then it's not unique. It's not really using those tropes in a way that um benefits the story. So think about why are you using that trope? Does it make sense for the characters? Does it make sense for the story?
00:34:02
Speaker
As far as marketing is concerned, it is a great way to market. um It doesn't necessarily mean that you have to exactly fit what that trope is. So you can have like, you know, found family vibes or, um you know, enemies lovers vibes, you know, whatever the case may be. Like, yeah.
00:34:26
Speaker
just making sure that you are identifying what the tropes might be in your book. A lot of times when I'm writing a book, I don't even think about what the tropes are until I'm done. And then I'm like, okay, what now, what tropes do I have in this? And like, okay, we've got ah brother's best friend. We've got only one bed. We've got i fake engagement we've got wound care we've got found mean and it's like all of a sudden those things start to kind of um ah like reveal themselves to you and where you're not even really thinking about it i think once you start writing more and more especially if you are a big romance reader naturally you're gonna put in some of those same tropes because those are the types of things that you're used to when you're reading romance books and
00:35:17
Speaker
um And so, you know utilizing them because they are things that readers are looking for. You know, it's not like having using tropes is a bad thing. I've heard people comments like, well, i don't use any tropes. Well, why not?
00:35:35
Speaker
i bet you do too. Yeah. And, you know, we look for them and that's what readers are really expecting in romance books. And again, it's not like just because you use trope doesn't mean that you don't have any original ideas.
00:35:50
Speaker
if it You can do your own spin on those tropes. So guess what I would say to a new new author is, Figure out the tropes that are are um necessary for your story. Make sense for your story and for your characters. And see if you can put your own unique spin on it just to make it a little fun and to make it fresh.
00:36:19
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I love that. And I'm a big fan. um Truly love a trope map on social media. Like, I eat that up every time. I'm like, ooh, pretty cover. And also, like, some hints at what's in the story. Incredible. And that what I really love about them is seeing when authors pull out tropes that I'm like, well, that's not, like, your traditional one. Like, for example, my young adult novel, I did a trope map map and one of my tropes was, oops, everyone's gay. And I was like, yeah, that's, this it's not one that's going to show up on a list of, like, most common tropes because, like,
00:36:51
Speaker
It might, but like, it's not in my experience, ah like a wording that people are often using, but it is like a trope. Like, ah well, I think actually I said surprise everyone's gay because in the book it was surprise. They just like kept popping up. um Or I did like running as therapy where it's like that is a thing that happens in books and in real life.
00:37:13
Speaker
And it's not necessarily like ah um as easily definable as wound tending or knife to throat. And those are the ones that are stuck in my brain apparently. But if I know I keep saying enemies to lovers and ah only one bed but those are clearly not the only tropes. There's a million tropes. It's early in the morning. i'm sorry the brain doesn't work. I'm still drinking my coffee. like Your brain is firing on so many cylinders right now. like i I think you're doing great for how early it is.
00:37:46
Speaker
um i had a thought oh right and i was thinking when people are like tropes i'm like first of all tropes exist in all of genre fiction right like they're not romance specific and i think they often like will cross over like found family is big in romance and in fantasy um i don't know much about thriller tropes or mystery tropes because i'm scared of those genres but i'm sure they exist But it's not a bad word. It's not an insult. It's just like you were saying, like it's a plot device. It's one of the tools in our arsenal as writers that we can put into our story and then we make it our own.
00:38:21
Speaker
Exactly. Do you remember like there was a time on social media where people were like, oh, those trope graphics with the arrows and everyone was like anti-trope graphics. And I'm like, I like this.
00:38:33
Speaker
I know. I'm like, it's my favorite. What are you talking about? i want to know what's in the book. And yeah when I do those, you know, really the true tropes in romance, you know, we all have.
00:38:45
Speaker
you know three or four but then again we add our own spin i add you know the other things that are in the book that are things that are common in other romance books like he falls first or love a he falls first i love he falls first that's the way it should be i'm gonna say oh so if it's an mf romance he needs to be falling first that is my decree um Yes, that's the decree we have decided. Male-female romance, he falls first. Your romance spokespeople have determined. Yes. Yes. yeah Now I rule. It is now an official, official trope.
00:39:24
Speaker
Male-female, he falls first. And I think, i mean, I think it is maybe me not a rule, but like so common, like because it's so delicious too. It's like, i love like, o we want him to be down bad for her.
00:39:39
Speaker
Pathetic, down bad. Like he, yes, I love a, We want a very main character, whether it's male-female, male-male, female-female, whatever the case may be. We want that secondary main character to fall first.
00:39:57
Speaker
and And we want them to be down bad. Real bad. And I think there's something about that where it's like, like you're saying, it's it's not even gender essentialist or specific. It's like we just, especially like if it's a single POV romance or even a dual POV where there's one like mainer character.
00:40:16
Speaker
It's just really lovely to be in someone's point of view and then switch to someone else and be like, see them through their eyes. Yeah. And realize, because to me, like I don't project myself onto the main characters that I read from.
00:40:30
Speaker
But I can see myself in a lot of them. And I think sort of no one sees themselves clearly, like in books and in real life. We don't necessarily look at ourselves with the same eyes that other people do, especially the people who love us. And there's just something like in real life, I can't look at myself through my roommate's eyes or my best friend's eyes, but in a book I can. And it's I can read that and be like, wow, like she thinks she also thinks that she's unlovable because of this reason. I think I'm unlovable because of this reason. But her love interest thinks that's what makes her really freaking hot. And it can be really healing, too, for me to be like, well, maybe maybe the things that I think make me unlovable don't. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:41:17
Speaker
yes and That's a great way to think about it. i yeah I love that. yeah we We do put little pieces of ourselves in our book and in our characters.
00:41:27
Speaker
And you know no character that I write is exactly like me. I mean, i wish I was a badass character. archaeologist who's like swinging on vines and... I mean, don't we all? Isn't that a dream that everyone has? I mean, I wish I was the Lara Croft type character, but I'm not. um but you know, it's still, like...
00:41:49
Speaker
some of the the pieces of ourselves are still in those characters and then to explore how other people see them is really that's really interesting and can be very healing as an author.
00:42:02
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. There's so much... um Yeah, I don't know. I have a... I've been doing these interviews with authors where ask them their most like most like sincere or earnest romance opinion and mine is just that like romance is really healing and can be really... like pure and it doesn't have to be it's i'm not saying that it's like the perfect genre right but it it does a lot of good It does.
Romance vs. Other Genres
00:42:28
Speaker
Yes. It's the only show. I read a lot of, you said that you're not a a thriller or horror person because they're actually scared for you, but I do read it thriller and horror. Nice. But they don't make me feel good when I'm done. Even if it has a happy ending, because they don't always, but sometimes they do. um They don't necessarily make me feel like warm fuzzies when I'm done reading them, but romance does.
00:42:51
Speaker
And romance always can make me smile and You know, when I'm done reading it, like, yes, I know there's going to be a happily ever after. And that's what I want. I don't want to go away from it feeling like yeah that made me feel icky. um I want to have those warm fuzzies. I want to feel hope.
00:43:10
Speaker
um Especially, you know, I'm wearing my hopeless romantic a sweatshirt right now. um love that want to feel hope when I read romance. And it does give me hope.
00:43:21
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. um Let's talk book recommendations. Okay. And so I think what I might do, if this sounds fun, is I might just say like a trope, one of the like the big ones that are easily definable and see if you have recommendations based on it. Okay. Well, you know, you're going ask me this and I'm not going to have remembered any books that I've read in the last like year.
00:43:47
Speaker
Maybe. Or we could just say like, do you have any books top of mind? That you want to recommend. Okay.
Book Recommendations & Future Projects
00:43:55
Speaker
That might be better. Okay, let's do that. Yeah. Because if you ask me for tropes, like, seriously, I'm like, I don't think I've read a book.
00:44:03
Speaker
Yeah, i will I'll be like, enemies lovers. And you're like, ah yeah, that's that's what I would do, too. I always ask people for book recs. And then they're like, why? Yep. Exactly. yeah Yeah. So what are some books, romance novels that you have read and adored recently?
00:44:21
Speaker
So the most recent one that I read and absolutely ate up was Fallon Ballard's Toe to toe It's coming out in March. I freaking love that book. It's like Magic Mike meets Center Stage. So talk about tropes. you know we Yeah.
00:44:42
Speaker
It's borrowing a lot of things from those two movies, but in a completely new take. And I loved it. I read the whole thing on airplane yeah heading to the Lit Con in October. And I loved it.
00:44:59
Speaker
I just loved it. um So that one I would highly recommend. You have to check it out. It's just so good. Let's see. What else have I read recently? Of course, i haven't read any books.
00:45:13
Speaker
ah but What are books? What are books? I'm looking just at my books that I have like surrounding me. um My Vampire Plus One by Jenna Levine.
00:45:27
Speaker
I love that book. i the main character The male main character, Reggie the Vampire, is one of my favorite romance book boyfriends. He is just, he's so funny. he He's like Laszlo what we do in the shadows, um but extra, extra hot. And so thank you very much. But I just love that book. It made me laugh. It just made me smile. Yeah.
00:45:57
Speaker
ah He's so wonderful. I love that. i've made um And, okay I'm looking at my books to see what I've got. mean, have a lot of books that I want to recommend.
00:46:09
Speaker
a great one for tropes. new Romance Rivalry by Susan Lee. It's a YA almost new adult I think they're in college um yeah and it is just so fun because each chapter is centered around a trope so especially for maybe new authors who want to explore tropes this one would be a great book for you to check out um because it really goes in depth about the different tropes um and again just young people falling in love it's just so charming and I loved it
00:46:46
Speaker
It's just a delightful book. And of course, you have a book coming out in the next... Is it like in January? In January, yes. In January. Yeah. So... two months.
00:46:59
Speaker
Ah, so exciting. Congratulations. Congratulations on... Is this the end of the... sort of same series yeah i think um I think it will be I know you know there we kind of ran ran out of titles because um once you get to The Last Crusade then the next one is Kingdom of the Crystal Skull what do you do with that and then of Destiny I did come up with a title for of Destiny my spin on Dial of Destiny but I don't think that ah my publisher would let me print it on a book
00:47:38
Speaker
right
00:47:41
Speaker
so we um so after the series is done i will be uh doing another adventure rom-com which i am currently writing but it will be a new character still same world there's still gonna be some easter egg so for people who For the other books, you'll see some familiar names and mentions, which I think is really fun. I just, I like that when I read a book and I'm like, that's, you know, so-and-so from, you know, whatever book. I enjoy that. so It's so delicious. Yeah.
00:48:14
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Well, is there anything else that you would like to say about tropes? um For authors, use them, please. I love them. Yeah.
00:48:26
Speaker
The more the merrier. as a reader, i love them. I think they're fun. um They, again, they give us something that we're expecting in a romance, but just seeing how an author uses them is really delightful.
00:48:45
Speaker
100%. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for chatting with us. This was a lot of fun and I think set the stage really nicely for are little tropes series. Awesome. Thank you.
00:48:57
Speaker
Thank you.