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What is Sports Romance? feat. KT Hoffman
36 Plays22 days ago
In the sixth episode of the The Write Way of Life’s ~Romance Season~, host Karis Rogerson chats with queer author KT Hoffman, author of the debut romcom The Prospects, about all things Sports Romance, including how to balance how much sports you can put in a sports romance, some sports romance hot takes, and a wonderful discussion about the popularity of sports romance in the romance reading space and why so many people love this genre.
Find KT Hoffman online. Make sure to follow him on Instagram and order his book The Prospects now!
The Write Way of Life is a craft-focused author interview podcast by Karis Rogerson & A.D Jolietta. Follow The Write Way of Life on Instagram or find us on our website. Follow Karis on Instagram and subscribe to her newsletter. Follow Adi on Instagram.
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Transcript
Introduction and Dog Sitting Humor
00:00:27
Speaker
And that is Bella. Well, hello, everyone. This is the Right Way of Life podcast. I'm Maris Rogerson. I am an author and a podcaster. And I am here with Bella, the dog, and also my co-host. A.D. Joletta. Yes, I am a dog sitting for Bella. She is an only dog whose owners are two retirees. So she loves attention and does not understand that i have work to do.
00:00:59
Speaker
ah She has a lot of loud opinions about my life. Yeah. You should know, Addy, that it's Saturday and Saturday is a weekend and weekends are Bella time. No, that's absolutely correct.
00:01:16
Speaker
Absolutely. known Bella for all of 30 seconds and have never seen her, but I know this to be true. Yes. No, Bella is a very sweet two-year-old Portuguese water dog. That means nothing to me.
00:01:30
Speaker
Do you know the Obama dogs? No. Okay, well, she's um she's the same breed as the Obama's dogs. Famous. Maybe they're cousins.
00:01:40
Speaker
Maybe. yes um all right. Well, hey, everyone. I hope y'all are doing well.
Thanksgiving: Appreciation and Controversy
00:01:50
Speaker
It is Saturday, November 22nd 2025. don't know why I'm enunciating tools so much.
00:01:56
Speaker
i don't know why i'm enunciating my tools so much But ah it is the week before it is the week before Thanksgiving, which means that next week I only have to work three days. And I hate...
00:02:11
Speaker
why we have thanksgiving but i love not working i mean because of the attempted genocide of native american peoples correct yes the origins of thanksgiving bad bad however have really mandated holidays especially when it's on a thursday and your boss is like take friday off too i'm like that don't mind if i do ah let's go And i am in Brooklyn. Addie,
Life in Alaska: Cold Beauty and Ocean Views
00:02:38
Speaker
where are you? I'm in good old Alaska. Yeah, you are. How's it been? How's the transition home?
00:02:44
Speaker
It's great. It's great. I love, you know, it's cold and it's gorgeous and live... It's ideal. Yeah, it's pretty great. I live in a very small town right by the ocean. Oh, God.
00:02:56
Speaker
Yeah. I want to visit. Take me to Alaska. You will. You should come in the summer, though, because that's the best. You keep saying that. I mean, it's true. i mean, I will say i i thought that I was going to hate the winter more. I forgot how beautiful the winter is with, like, the snow and, like, everything's frozen.
00:03:14
Speaker
i love a frozen landscape. Yes. Yeah. And also, if, like, I had to choose between being hot and being cold, I'd much rather be cold. yeah.
00:03:26
Speaker
Not to a degree where my body's shutting down, right? Obviously. But, like, if I'm like, ooh, I should go to Arizona in the summer, no. Alaska in the winter, it's a maybe.
00:03:39
Speaker
I mean, I will say this, the hot weather in my small town in the summer, the top degree is 60 degrees. So that is so close to my perfect degree. Let's go.
Self-Publishing Journey: Social Media and Design
00:03:51
Speaker
um Next two summers from now, because next summer I can't because of my book comes out next summer. yes and you're gonna be i'm sure maybe touring maybe not that's maybe it depends i did make a list of indie bookstores in towns and places where i have connections and like free places to stay and i was like what if i just do like a six month long like it bopping around the country every couple of weeks i like go somewhere new and i'm like hey hey
00:04:24
Speaker
It's me, Karis, and I have a book to sell. um But yeah, Addy and i were talking at some point in the past. And since I am embarking on a self-publishing journey and Addy is about to be querying, knock on wood, hopefully fingers crossed if they are staying accountable to their goals.
00:04:43
Speaker
I am. I am. Okay. It's like Hattie is muted right now, so they can't defend themselves. um Yes, i we are going to like talk our way through these journeys of ours. So I'm trying to think if there's any updates since the last time we spoke, which was the time when I shared that I'm self-publishing the book, which means there's tons of updates.
00:05:08
Speaker
I did announce it on Instagram. I created a Goodreads page for my book and people have started adding it and it has one review. So five star baby. ah Love to see it. And I have, I'm working on the cover designing process and also getting some ah character art for marketing and publicity purposes. And I am so excited about both because I have put in my request for what I would like those illustrations to look like. And it's me doing it. So I get to say yay or nay.
00:05:41
Speaker
um and I'm really excited about that. So the first cover that I got, I didn't like. So we're redoing it. in this It's like in Trad Pub when Barnes & Noble is like, no no, we don't like that cover.
00:05:55
Speaker
But ah in this case, I'm both the author and Barnes & Noble. No, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, you should have the cover
Focus on New Projects: Querying and Rom-Com Ideas
00:06:01
Speaker
of your dreams. Um, Addy, do you have any updates on your querying process?
00:06:06
Speaker
um I do. My update is i now no longer traveling cross-country. So I get to dive into this. A plus. Yes.
00:06:18
Speaker
um And I started my job. So I'm feeling um in the in the safe zone to start my start back up with ah with focusing on on this little rom-com. This little rom-com romp.
00:06:34
Speaker
Romp. Romp. Comma. Comma. Yeah. Romp. La la la la. Yeah. So I will probably have more updates because this this is the first weekend that I'm allowing myself to write because I didn't want to try to...
00:06:49
Speaker
you know overload myself with moving 3600 miles away unpacking my life starting at a starting a new job and also like doing some heavy revision that's that's nice of you to do to yourself and so i think this is growth i think it is too and hey i only truly have one day job now truly truly god bless this is like the fewest day jobs you've had since i've known you I honestly don't think I've ever only had one job since I was 14. I mean, like, technically same because I'm always freelancing, but it's very different in terms of, like, I get nine hours of sleep every night and always have.
00:07:29
Speaker
I wish that I had that ability. No, no, no. I wish I could survive on less sleep. But, like, if I sleep, like, two nights at seven hours, right, I'll be like, oh, I'm doing fine. Like, it's good. It's fine. And then one night, it's like, no, bitch.
00:07:45
Speaker
You're not waking up again. Like, you're sleeping for 15 hours. Minimum. We gotta recover. My body is sleepy. I'm a Taurus. They made me and they were like, what should we give her a little bit extra of? And they were like, the sleepiness. Yep, yep. I feel that. I got my i got that Taurus moon. Actually, i I should be a sleeper. I'm a Cancer Sun and a Taurus moon, but... they They gave me your extra sleepiness.
00:08:11
Speaker
I guess. I figured out I'm very good at three hours of sleep. Like I've got the CEO sleep. Now, here's the thing. I don't do it often because I recognize the poor health quality that is involved with that. So I force myself to get at least six hours of sleep a night, ideally eight, because that's what the doctor recommends.
Book Enthusiasm: 'Heated Rivalry' and Its Impact
00:08:31
Speaker
But I can be fully functional at three hours. And for a a a lot of my twenty s that's what I existed on. I'm just reeling. I just can't fathom. I've always been this way since I was like a ta. I was like, yeah, no, give me my eight hours of sleep or you're not getting nothing out of me. I have pulled exactly three quarters of an all nighter in my life. I've been awake for 72 hours multiple times. All right. Fuck you.
00:08:55
Speaker
No, no, no. Do do not. i I am sure so at some point a doctor is going to tell me, remember those many, many all-nighters that you spent in college.
00:09:06
Speaker
That's why you have the terminal. i don't but what know what it'll be. I'm so sorry to laugh at the terminal. Oh, God. um What are you reading? What a great question. Um, we're not even going to try to segue. We're just going to pivot.
00:09:22
Speaker
I'll tell you what I'm reading. Yeah, you should do that while I pull up my Kindle. I'm reading, and I'm so excited for the show. I'm reading Heated Rivalry, a book which came into my consciousness and, like, understanding of the world. Like, I just i first learned of its existence maybe three months ago on a Faded Mates episode when they, like, broke it down. And I was like, that sounds great. Put in it in on my TBR. Yeah. And the next thing I knew, like two days later, they were like, and when the TV show comes out. And I was like, oh my god, bump it up the TBR. And then I started having, I shit you not, dreams about these characters. Mind you, i hadn't it read the book and I haven't seen the show. But I was like, I know for a fact this book is going to rewire my brain chemistry. It's giving the LSU series. It's giving the vampires from earlier this year. like it's...
00:10:16
Speaker
Bye. And I spent, I started reading it on Thursday night. I was like supposed to be reading a different book because you know I'm very regimented with my reading. I care a lot. um And I was supposed to be reading a different book and i was like, I gotta read the men. I gotta meet them.
00:10:31
Speaker
And so I started and I read like 75 pages that night. And then yesterday, just all day, I'd be like, I gotta go back in. And so I'd read like 20 to 30 pages and then I'd be like, oh my god.
00:10:43
Speaker
I'm having all of the feelings. All of the emotions. It's too much. And 30 minutes later, i'd be like, I gotta go back. I was at an event last night for Suffix.
00:10:54
Speaker
And I was, like, trying to meet people. It was a bust. But I'm sitting there, and at one point I got a little bored, and I was like, yeah. Shane and Elia. Yeah.
00:11:06
Speaker
And then I was like, Karis, stop thinking about men. Think about women.
00:11:14
Speaker
So yeah, that's I and I'm probably reading other books. Oh my god, yes, I am. i just looked over and saw it on my court on my bedside table. I'm also reading The Wild Trials by Mackenzie Reed, who was one of our recent guests on the pod.
00:11:27
Speaker
It's I'm as far as books go. And as far as books that make me angry because they're so good, on a scale of, like, one, I'm a little enraged to ten, I'm actually going to quit writing, I'd give it, like, a nine and a half.
00:11:46
Speaker
Wow. It's really good. And I'm mad about it. Mackenzie, if you're listening to this, teach me your ways. i don't know. Like, stop it. Anyway, The Wild Trials is a young adult thriller, ah sort of like wilderness survival, but there's a mystery. And also she's there with her ex-boyfriend and they have to team up for plot reasons. And um they don't they don't hate each other.
00:12:12
Speaker
Like, kids's they love each other, obviously, but, you know, they think they hate each other. And they think the other one hates them. And I'm just like, children, stop it. They're not children. They're teenagers. I love them.
00:12:25
Speaker
Have you figured out what you're reading? I have. I've i've been able to pull up my Kindle. um I'm still making my way through Wayward Duke by kati Katrina Kendrick, which is part of her, like, story. romance series that's the recent one it's about um julian the duke of hastings who is this top secret government code breaker and then he has an entanglement and has to enlist the and help enlist the help of his estranged wife oh sexy sex trans yes second yeah second chance you love a second chance We love a second chance romance. um In books. I am not allowing myself a second chance romance. I can't have a second chance romance. Like it's physically impossible.
00:13:10
Speaker
Do you want to know why, Addy? Why, Karis? Because I've never had a first chance romance. Okay, I'm going to – you have to admit that was funny.
00:13:21
Speaker
That was – that's very good. but um Thank you. going add a sound effect in post. um
00:13:29
Speaker
Oh, man. How are we feeling just in general about, like, the world these days? i think something that I'm really proud of Americans with in these last, like, three weeks is everybody really rallied together to make sure that people didn't go hungry.
00:13:46
Speaker
Yes. I saw a lot of, mostly on my feeds, it was authors coming together to raise money for their local food banks or for various places. i saw people on Facebook that i presume are conservative just because of where I know them from posting about like, hey, this is like, this is bad. We got
What Makes Sports Romance Unique?
00:14:07
Speaker
to get these people. Like,
00:14:09
Speaker
Yeah. And it, um, yeah. Yeah. That's all I got. um Speaking of yeah, yeah. I like to shout yeah when my sports team wins the game. And today we're talking about sports romance. Whoa, what a segue. The crowd went wild. She's so clever. Anyway, so we're talking about sports romance. Wow, I really pulled that out of, like, the remaining gray matter that I had in my brain. and I've got nothing left.
00:14:36
Speaker
No cares. You pull that out of left field and you hit a home run, baby.
00:14:43
Speaker
And that's perfect because our author for today wrote a baseball romance. Katie Hoffman is an author of queer romance. His debut, Wrong Prom, The Prospects, was published by Dial Press, US, and Sphere, UK.
00:14:59
Speaker
KT is originally from Beaverton, Oregon and currently lives in Brooklyn. If he isn't writing about trans hope and gay kissing, he's probably wide-knuckling his way through the ninth inning of a Seattle Mariners game.
00:15:12
Speaker
Let's pass it over to the episode. All right, everyone. I'm here with our guests for this episode. This is KT Hoffman. Would you like to introduce yourself to our, not guests, but listeners? You're the guest. Mm-hmm.
00:15:27
Speaker
Things are great. Introduce yourself to our listeners and share a little bit about your book. And um yeah, that's what's going on. Absolutely. um I'm K.T. Hoffman. I am a queer romance author.
00:15:40
Speaker
um Fantastic. um The world needs more of those always. um And I am primarily here to talk about my debut novel, The Prospects, which is about minor league baseball. So I'm very excited to be here. Thank you for having me.
00:15:58
Speaker
Of course. I read The Prospects and I was like, why is this like the best book in the world? I'm obsessed. ah Well, I'm honored. Thank you. read It's really funny because I am pretty much a lesbian. I mostly like only women. And then I read books and and it's like gay men or male male. And I'm like, oh, men, they have they can be they can exist sometimes. like I like it when they're...
00:16:24
Speaker
I mean, listen, I'm gay. So I'm like, men are fine when they're gay. folks I'm like, transition so I don't have to deal with straight men. like Perfect.
00:16:38
Speaker
ah Life hack. Yeah. For real. No one tells you you can just transition and not date straight men. Yeah. and And for me, it was like, well, I can't transition because I am a cis woman. but So I just will will date women and not ten not men. Also, life hack. Exactly. Just be gay. Let's just opt out.
00:17:00
Speaker
Incredible. Okay, back to the topic, which is sports romance. This is um the third in our like sub-genre mini-trilogy. We did... already forgot. We did... um Why can't I think of anything? Romanticy and horror romance. I was like, I know you did a horror romance because I listened to it because I like love horror romance. Oh, yeah. That was such a fun episode, too. Mackenzie is one of my good friends, and I was just like, I'm obsessed with her and her books. It's amazing.
00:17:28
Speaker
um And I can't wait for that book to come out. But and now we're doing sports romance, partly because I was like, one, I know a really great sports romance, and I want to talk to the author of it. um And two, um because it's big. Like, it's a big subgenre. And I feel like maybe it always has been, and I just am noticing it now because I'm...
00:17:46
Speaker
More like plugged into the romance community and especially like the indie romance community where it's just everywhere. But for pretend that you like someone has never read a romance and they're like, what is a sports romance? What is your like, what qualifies as a sports romance for you?
00:18:04
Speaker
Okay. Um, I will say I also like when I was writing this, was, I feel like sports romance wasn't as huge of a thing as it is in this moment right now. Because i did this layer it's everywhere. It's everywhere.
00:18:19
Speaker
Especially if you like like hockey. which i'm I'm a baseball guy, so pickings are a little more slim. but um Unfortunately, yeah.
00:18:31
Speaker
you I did this mentorship program that's now defunct. it's It was called Pitch Wars. And I remember when I... um Started it. My mentors, the like, lovely Rosie Dannen and Ruby Barrett, who, if you haven't read their books, go, like, pause the episode, look them up, read them now. ah But I remember them saying, like, you know, sometimes it can be really hard to sell a sports romance because they knew some sports romance authors. And I was like, oh, okay, well, I'm glad I didn't know that before wrote the book, I guess. Because then maybe I would have been, like, scared to write the book, which I guess is...
00:19:06
Speaker
umm kind of a testament to don't always write to market because you don't know what the market's going to be doing. Tattoo it on everyone's faces. For real. Because by the time I sold the book, sports romance was like starting to really pop off. And then by the time it like came out, i remember everyone was like 2024, the year of sports romance.
00:19:29
Speaker
hey So it's like, okay, lucky me, I guess. um But okay, that didn't answer your question at all. You asked what is a sports romance to me? um Yeah, that's true. This is maybe a controversial take.
00:19:44
Speaker
yeah Because I don't think this – I think most people's definition of a sports romance would be a romance novel, which, you know, it has to fit the general definition of romance novel. H-E-A, the main plot has to be the romance.
00:19:55
Speaker
We know this. Perfect. arms But I guess you could do and a happy for now, but I don't – I'm team H-E-A or bust.
00:20:05
Speaker
But – and then I also think a sports romance requires that in addition to the, like, central love story, there has to be a central plot that in some way revolves around sports. um which is maybe kind of like a too general of a requirement. But in my opinion, to qualify as a sports of romance to me, and this is not the case for everybody. Okay.
00:20:27
Speaker
Both characters have both of the, both or if there are more than two people, all of the central characters in the love story have to be connected to the sport in some way. Okay. I'm not big into sports romances where one of them is an athlete and the other one is like,
00:20:42
Speaker
not at all connected to the sport. They don't have to both be athletes. Although like, I i love that. um Obviously. Of course, naturally. But like, I guess I, um my general definition would be they both have to be in some way connected to that sport. So I've seen like, you know, like one of them is a documentarian documenting like, or like one of my like favorite sports romances is The Art of Catching Feelings.
00:21:09
Speaker
By Alicia Thompson. And like at the beginning of the book. i'm She is like not really connected to baseball. Not into it. um She calls it America's snooze fest. Which I think is like very very funny. Because I know. So harsh. But like I know like.
00:21:27
Speaker
Alicia loves baseball. So I'm like, she's allowed. um But then she like becomes a like sideline announcer for the team during the book. So she does become very attached to the sport. And I think that's like ah the secret sauce to making a sports romance really work for me is they both have to be engaged in it in some way.
00:21:48
Speaker
Yeah. I actually, my follow-up question was, does the sport just have to be present or does it need to be like, involved and i because that was a leading question because i i believe it needs to be more than just like peripheral like otherwise it's just like a romance that involves a sport in some capacity i think well i guess i think of it as like okay you could like replace sport with sports are such a weird job like i try to i always try to tell people like the prospects is not really enemies to lovers that's like the trope that it always gets sold as and i'm like
00:22:23
Speaker
I guess you could call it rivals to lovers, but to me it's like friends to lovers in the rivals to lovers trench coat. I love that. Thank you. um But also to me it's like it's a workplace romance, which a lot of sports romances are, but it's a weird workplace. So I guess you could think of it though as like,
00:22:45
Speaker
Replace athlete with any other job. If your character's like a teacher, does a big portion of the book take place at the school? Is them being a teacher like vital to their plot or are they just a teacher?
00:23:00
Speaker
Like, and right that's not really relevant. I've definitely read like books that get sold as sports romances where it's like, yeah, he plays hockey, but like it's not really relevant other than he's like really big. Yeah. no that's so fair because like the other subgenres so that we did are like romanticity it has to be fantasy horror romance like you can't call it a horror romance if there's like i don't know no horror like if they drive by a haunted house and they're like oh a haunted house that's a horror romance and so it sense that sports romance too would be like that's a it's a subgenre it's not just ah a facet or like a a fun quirk it's literally foundational i sometimes like
00:23:45
Speaker
Of course. Like, I totally agree. And I think, I don't know that that's everyone's definition. And if other people are listening to this and they're like, that's, that's bullshit. Sorry. I don't, is it okay to swear? Yeah. Okay.
00:23:57
Speaker
They're like, that's bullshit. This, like, it's a sports romance as long as like, I don't know, someone plays a sport or so whatever. Someone works for a sports team. Me personally,
00:24:10
Speaker
I almost think if you're going to be in a subgenre, like, because I think horror romance is actually a great, like, example of this. You almost have to be off-putting to a certain subset of, like, general romance readers because you are writing to a niche of that audience.
00:24:25
Speaker
I have gotten tagged in so many reviews that are like, stop talking about baseball. Like, there's too much baseball. And I'm, to me, I'm like, well, they're both in a baseball uniform on the cut. First of all, it doesn't, like, it doesn't matter.
00:24:41
Speaker
If people don't like my book, that's fine. but it Just like don't tag those like you. Maybe you don't tag me if you hate baseball. But whatever. I log on to Instagram like once a month now. so yeah but ah But I'm like, I don't know. They're in like baseball uniforms on the cover. The back cover copies entirely ah about them being baseball players. They're teammates. I'm like, I'm not sure how you could...
00:25:07
Speaker
pick up this book and not expect there to be baseball in it um and i feel the same about people getting mad like when horror romance is like a little gross like well it's horror romance like if you wanted it to not be gross you could read a contemporary romance absolutely yeah and i love that because i think this is like a hot take podcast in the sense that we often just say things and then i'm like holy crap we're gonna get so much trouble but It's fine. um This is why we invite people on to talk to us instead of just, like, me blathering. Because I'm like, I want people's takes. And also, i could ask, like, I could do a whole season on sports romance and talk to, like, ten different authors and there would all be, like, slight differences. so Absolutely. It's the beauty of art and not math.
00:25:52
Speaker
Yes. i and And, like... I also think when I say like it has to be off-putting, i don't necessarily mean that like the book has to not be welcoming an audience because I actually think like specifically with sports romance and I'm really conscious of this like writing in a romance space where like there's a lot of misogyny around romance and like the attitudes towards it.
00:26:16
Speaker
And I feel like there is that in sports as well where there's the like It's the equivalent of, like, wearing a band t-shirt and some dumb guy walking and being like, name five songs. And people act like that about sports all the time. And I certainly don't mean that in the sense that, like, you should write a sports romance to be exclusionary towards people who don't already love sports. I think that they should be, like... Some people just don't like sports, and that's fine. So they're never going to like it.
00:26:46
Speaker
But, like... To me, a sports romance is such a beautiful opportunity to like show people who might not already really love that sport like how cool it can be and how interesting and that it doesn't have to be the Name 5 Songs experience. You can like fall in love with...
00:27:09
Speaker
the like excitement of a team or a season or like one player. um and I think sports romances are a really great like crossover area where you get that chance to show maybe an audience some audience some audience members who already love the sport and some audience members who might be thinking like baseball is America's snooze fest.
00:27:31
Speaker
Like how cool it can be. And I think that's the flip side of it. I certainly don't mean... We should be excluding people. Like, that's not what I mean.
00:27:42
Speaker
No, I love that because there are people who are never going to love a baseball romance because they're biased against it. They just don't have any interest. But then there's people like me where I'm like, will enjoy pretty much any sporting game, but I don't like follow anything because, frankly, i don't even know how. like Where do I watch them? What do I do? I'm scared. There's so much time involved. like i But if it's like the World Cup for soccer or like I'm at my parents' house and they're watching baseball, I'll watch it and I'll get really into it.
00:28:11
Speaker
I've seen come one time in college my my family's in South Carolina and um USC was doing really well the beautifully named Gamecocks and I was like watching it was the end of the season and they were doing a lot of fun things and I was like falling in love with all the players I was like you're the one that I like I got really invested no idea what their names are no idea what they went on to do yeah but I was like in it and so that's what I like sports romances because it's kind of like microdosing the
Introducing Sports Culture Through Romance
00:28:39
Speaker
sports um um And it is. like I do think you're right. like it does' it It needs to be like...
00:28:44
Speaker
ah Almost like accessible, right? like Yeah. um And I love, okay, I haven't read The Art of Catching Feelings, but I do read every single one of Alicia's newsletters, so I know a lot. Oh my God. Alicia has the best newsletter. She actually had like, I don't know exactly when this episode's coming out, but like we're recording on the 13th. If you are listening to this, go read her newsletter from November 12th for a deep dive on Paramore lore, which I have been like asking her for. Amazing. Like months. So 10 out of 10.
00:29:15
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. And from her newsletters, I have gleaned that there are like, it's almost like there's like ah Easter eggs for like the hardcore baseball fans that you can put in that like non-expert is going to be like, okay. Yeah. And then the baseball lovers are going to be like, yes.
00:29:33
Speaker
u So I think that's like a really great way. i think in terms of, you know, like craft tips or whatever, like that makes a lot of sense for like when you're writing the sports romance, like, You can make it fun for everyone. Yeah. And obviously not the people who are going to hate it because it's sports romance. Like they can just read something else.
00:29:53
Speaker
But the people who are like, I don't know what a strike is. So I was confused for this whole book. I'm like, well, I, I suppose you could have Googled it, but you didn't want to. And that's okay. It's free still. I mean, that's kind of broken. Yeah. It's a little little free. Yeah. If you type just minus AI at the end of every search, it almost kind of functions still.
00:30:16
Speaker
Just barely. Just barely. It's hanging on by a thread. But like, excluding the people who go in saying like, I don't want to learn anything about this sport, which is fine. i Like, that's okay. I'm not sure I'm ever going to write a book that would please those people. But that's okay. My book's not, there's a lot of reasons my book's not going to please everybody. Yeah.
00:30:36
Speaker
It's fine. But it is such like on a craft level, you really do have to enter a sports romance like thinking, how big do I want like the readership for this book to be? And I don't mean that like how many copies do I want to sell? I'm like, what bucket are you aiming for?
00:30:56
Speaker
Are you aiming? Because like, okay, I think there's like I don't I think of How You Get the Girl by like Anita Kelly. I don't know if you've read that one. No, but I have heard of it.
00:31:07
Speaker
Okay. very excited for it. I'm not like a huge basketball person. I know enough about it. I played it for a couple years, which if you met me in person would make you laugh because I'm five feet tall.
00:31:19
Speaker
ah But um I was very bad at it, unsurprisingly. i know enough about it, but I don't know a ton. I think that that book is like really beautifully written.
00:31:32
Speaker
to be accessible to anyone, regardless of how much you know about basketball. um The central couple are like coaching a high school basketball team. i So I'm like, I kind of love that.
00:31:44
Speaker
It's writ like, it's very cool. um One of them, I mean, I suppose they both used to play. One of them was like a professional player. um But I think that that book is like really accessible no matter how much you know about basketball.
00:31:59
Speaker
And I know this is in part because like, Anita wasn't a huge basketball like fan before writing it. I mean, they do watch basketball. I'm not saying like Anita doesn't watch basketball.
00:32:12
Speaker
um But then and then you have like what i where I would put like the art of catching feelings or the prospects, which are, okay, if you really don't want to read about a sport, you're probably not going to like this book.
00:32:24
Speaker
But you can read it without knowing anything about baseball and still like follow the plot, know what's happening. Maybe there's a scene or two that are in the middle of a game and you're like, I don't know what that is, but okay. God, what's the third The little guy who stands next to third base.
00:32:45
Speaker
Shortstop. Yeah, that one. I'm sure Luis would be so thrilled to be described as the little guy who stands next to third base. I'm so sorry. I loved that. That was delightful. But like, I do think there's like been that like tier of sports romances where like they are very engaged in the sport.
00:33:08
Speaker
And like most of the plot is about the sport, but you don't necessarily have to be intimately familiar with it. And then you have like your Katie Casey's, who I watch baseball incessantly. And I still sometimes when I'm reading a Katie Casey book, I'm like,
00:33:24
Speaker
okay, I don't actually, like, I didn't know that. I didn't, um because they often will pick, like, like the first book in the unwritten rules trilogy is like, they're both catchers.
00:33:38
Speaker
And so there's a lot about pitch framing and like, I love catchers, but I don't know that much about pitch framing. Then they had a book where there was like a relief pitcher and he throws like one pitch really well. And you have like, they do like a deep dive on that one pitch. And I'm like, this is great. I love this.
00:33:59
Speaker
I can see a world in which someone who doesn't like baseball already, um not even like won't enjoy this, but like you're going to have to find another way to get them to buy in on because there is a lot of baseball.
00:34:14
Speaker
I think that's so, i think this is a hot take. Okay. Love it. I think there's something really beautiful about stories that are unapologetically,
00:34:27
Speaker
not for everyone because not to be like the market and whatever and trad pub. But there's just a lot that's like, you want to reach everyone because we need the most money possible and the most sales and the all the best seller lists. And so you almost end up writing like,
00:34:44
Speaker
But it's this is what I learned in personal essay writing is like the the more specific you get, the more universal it is, which doesn't make sense. And I still don't understand why that is. But like if I write an essay or a book and I'm like trying to describe the feeling of something, it's going to land better if I get really specific. And I'm like, so I was at the Ares tour and I started crying and I thought that God was with me. And then I realized that live music is really powerful. Yes. Just say live music is powerful and it makes you feel emotions. You're like, okay. Yeah.
00:35:13
Speaker
Like, sure. i don't disagree with that. Right. But then I've shared the actual explicit story and you're like, well, kind of funny. Like, you're just sitting at the air as trod sobbing because you're having, like, a spiritual awakening almost. month or a spiritual unawakening as the case may be.
00:35:28
Speaker
But... Yeah. So I really like that idea of like, and it's kind of the same idea of like being, listened to Fated Mates, um the podcast with Sarah McLean Jen Prokop, who was our first guest for the season. And I'm obsessed with them. And they were talking about, they did a deep dive on a, think it was a Louise Darling book.
00:35:48
Speaker
And they were like, she's so bold and she takes risks. And she's like, yeah, people aren't going to like this. the The character sucks. and this But it's like, that's good storytelling takes risks. And I think sometimes the risk is just, I'm going to put a lot of baseball in this book. And some people won't like it. But some people, the right people, like my readers, they're going to be obsessed with it. And I also think like...
00:36:13
Speaker
and Maybe this is coming partly from the fact that, like, I'm a trans writer writing trans books. And so I'm already very aware that there is a sizable population who is not going to read my book. Even if they're not actively, like, they don't think of themselves as someone who doesn't like trans people. you know, there's a lot of people who don't want to read that book.
00:36:34
Speaker
um And particularly, like... I mean, I could get into like what why I think people read romance novels, but that's like a whole tangent. ah But like there are there is a sizable audience who's just not going to read my book anyway.
00:36:49
Speaker
So I guess when I'm writing this book, I'm like, okay, well, then I might as well have fun. i might as well write the book I wanted to write. And I wanted to write a book that has a lot of baseball.
00:37:02
Speaker
That being said, every single round of revisions that I did on this book was like, what if we took some of the baseball out? eight every single time we're like let's shave a little bit off um the draft I turned in for Pitch Wars was like it opened at spring training and had like three chapters of spring training and I remember sitting like getting my edit letter and they were like people who don't like baseball don't give a shit about spring training like okay hate rain fine and so we cut it and like I know it was right and it's better the way it starts now um and then every like doing line edits all the way down like all the way down to line edits which is like the last thing before copy edits with my editor we were still in the comments like debating are people gonna get this and um me being like I don't actually think I care i don't think I care
00:37:57
Speaker
iron Like we had a long conversation about like, so there's a character Vince has had um Tommy John surgery, which is a really common surgery that like pitchers get, especially pitchers who throw hard.
00:38:13
Speaker
um It's like an elbow surgery. I'm not going to go into details about what the surgery is. It's an elbow surgery, like for a tendon in your elbow or ligament. I don't know. I'm not a doctor. I don't actually know the difference between a tendon and a ligament. Yeah. I mean, who does? doc i just see like a picture on the Mariners has elbow discomfort and I'm like, we're doomed.
00:38:34
Speaker
that's why That's all I need to know. um Anyway, so he'd had Tommy John. And so technically it's like UCL repair surgery is like the it's but in baseball, it's colloquially known as like Tommy John.
00:38:51
Speaker
And then even more colloquially known as the Teej. ah ah And so we had like a very long discussion about like, am I allowed to say the Teej in a book um yeah versus like should I just call it Tommy John? And they're like, but do people know what Tommy John is? And I'm like, I'm willing to accept that I shouldn't call it the Teej. I'm not willing to accept calling it anything other than Tommy John because no baseball player would call it by its like an official name.
00:39:22
Speaker
and that's that's fun fact something i've been talking about in therapy lately is like matt because i talk about my writing to my therapist she's yeah she's like learned so much about publishing she's very horrified um there's a subset of therapists who know like way too much because everyone is even tangentially involved in publishing it's like ah it hurts But I was like, I think I need to start like writing for the the most, the best audience and not my most worst critic audience. And there is that line of like, okay, I could write the most like, you could write the a different name than Tommy John, but then you're going to lose the readers who are most likely to actually love the book. And so why make that trade off for people who might not actually enjoy the book to begin with because they don't even like baseball.
00:40:10
Speaker
Right, because they came to the book and i' like, I don't know what a strike is. Right. He didn't even get to the line about Tom and They're like, strike, what does that mean? What's that? No union. I'm putting this down. um but And I think that that is, like, I am sure writers of other subgenres feel this and, like, have to deal with this balance, too.
00:40:32
Speaker
um But every everyone I know who's written the sports romance was like, A, like... so think that when you're really into a topic, you inherently overestimate how much other people
Challenges of Writing Niche Genres
00:40:45
Speaker
know about it.
00:40:46
Speaker
Yes. Because I'm writing about baseball and I'm like, everybody in the entire world knows who Ichiro is. And then like my roommate who is not a Yankees fan, and I'm saying only only because like they would not want people to think that they're a Yankees fan.
00:41:04
Speaker
Okay. But their dad is a Yankees fan. Okay. And so like they grew up with the Yankees playing when Ichiro was on the Yankees, didn't know who Ichiro was. And so, which is fine because I'm like, he's not iconic to Yankees fans the way he's iconic to Mariners fans.
00:41:21
Speaker
But I'm like, what do you mean you don't know who Ken Griffey Jr. is? Everybody knows, everybody knows Ken Griffey Jr. and I think that like when you write about a niche topic, you sometimes forget that it's niche.
00:41:38
Speaker
That's me like walking into rooms and being like, yeah, i you know, got an agent for my book. And they're like, when can I buy it? And I'm like, no, I'm so sorry. I need to explain. Let's back it up. And they were like, I didn't want this.
00:41:53
Speaker
Ashley, I have like a three hour long story that I need to tell before I can not even give you an answer for that question. They'll be like, how's your writing going? And I'm like, okay, this was actually total aside. But I went back to, I grew up in Italy. I was a missionary kid. So all my friends there were either from school or from the church. Yeah. And I went back for the first time since coming out like three years ago and i was sitting down having a coffee with one of the ladies from the church and she was like how's your writing going and i was like okay to explain to you what i'm writing which is you know gay gay girls bromance i have to tell you that i'm queer and so to do that i have to tell you that the and she was like recover why are we getting your whole history layers to this yeah
00:42:40
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, like, A, i know so many people, myself partly included, who, like, came out to their family because they had a book coming out. i Yeah, same. Well, not book coming me out, but... Yeah. I was writing the book, and they were like, well, what's this queer story? And I was like, so here's the thing about me.
00:42:57
Speaker
wait just, for years, told people, i was like, yeah, I'm writing ah by i'm writing a book about minor league baseball. And that's all I would say.
00:43:08
Speaker
And then i it, like, partly because I was like, well, I'm not even going to query it. So, like, i because I didn't ever really plan on querying and anything.
00:43:19
Speaker
um And then i was like, I don't have to deal with it. And then when I sold the book, it was like, you know, euphoria. and then I was like, have to tell my family some things about myself now. Yeah.
00:43:36
Speaker
Oh, I've backed myself into a corner. And now I can't get out because now the book's coming out. So I got to come out. Real. i'm real even within publishing, like i like a lot of romance authors have a book come out every year. i didn't have one come out this year. I'm not having one come out next year.
00:43:55
Speaker
We'll see when for when my next book comes out. um But like even within, like you can have a book out and be talking to other like authors in TradPub and like try to explain the situation with your current book. And even then it's like, it's a three hour story.
00:44:15
Speaker
Right, because it's like they're with, you know, Macmillan and you're with Simon and Schuster and it's a whole different ecosystem. Or like they're in a different subgenre or like whatever, whatever, a million different reasons. Like they could be at the same imprint with a different editor and be having. And it's totally different. A completely different experience. Incredible.
00:44:36
Speaker
So this just that's the constant. It never goes away. yeah Great news. yeah Fantastic. You will be explaining things for three hours to people forever.
00:44:48
Speaker
Yes. um But one thing that I... This is, like, such ah ah an abrupt subject. I, like, didn't even try to segue. One thing that I did want to make sure to ask you about was... Okay, so my understanding of mainstream, like, sports romance is a lot of what I've seen. But also, like, every sports romance that I get on my Instagram page is hockey and it's MF and it's usually white. um So what is... Like, hmm.
00:45:14
Speaker
How did you approach... writing a sports romance in this genre subgenre and it's queer and it's not about hockey
00:45:26
Speaker
it's a sports romance but it's not anything that people who read sport sports romances want and and i think like to me that's probably why i was drawn to it because i'm like well i don't want to just read like the same thing seven times over whatever i mean i will when it's different but whatever yeah well that's because it's the same thing seven times over but it was made for me Yeah, exactly. Yes.
00:45:49
Speaker
So how did you, i guess like, what were your like thoughts and feelings as you neared release and how did you sort of tackle that aspect of that?
Breaking Stereotypes in Sports Romance
00:46:02
Speaker
First, I do think you're like, that's very true. i think the dominant like strain of sports romance is cis, straight, white couple. He's an athlete and she's not.
00:46:18
Speaker
occasionally she'll be a figure skater. Oh yeah. I'm like, ah, the gender roles. Give me ah ah an MF. He's a figure skater. She's a hockey player. Now see that, that suddenly I'm really into hockey romance. ah but but There was a like um hockey romance. Wait, I have to actually, I'm Googling it right now. Cause I think I remember the title.
00:46:40
Speaker
okay um That was a hockey romance that was like two women. Yeah, it's called Wake Up Nat and Darcy. And I think it's like... Funny? I think it's like Winter Olympics.
00:46:55
Speaker
Oh. And I need to read it because I'm like, well, so now I'm interested in the hockey. Every time I go on to Goodreads to search my book's name, which is starts with Nat and Cammy, I type in Nat and it's like, do you mean wake up Nat and Darcy? So in the past four days, I've become very familiar with this title. okay pp Okay. um So I'm like telling you nothing new, actually. um But yes, I do. I actually like, I don't know how hot of a take I'm allowed to say.
00:47:25
Speaker
Very My hot take is that hockey is the biggest sport in sports romance in part because it's the whitest sport. And romance readers, I'm not, I don't think romance readership is all white people, obviously. Like, I know many people who disprove that.
00:47:43
Speaker
um But I think that is the audience that often, in every genre, this is not particular to romance. It's not particular even to publishing. It's every genre of every kind of art.
00:47:54
Speaker
white people are what gets catered to. Um, and so I think that's a huge part of why hockey is like the big one. Um, I'll say you can't see me listeners, but I am nodding. Cause I but also like romance readers tend to like really large men and hockey's really large and small women. Yep.
00:48:15
Speaker
Whatever. The gender roles. Yeah. um No. And I think to add a hot take onto your hot take. Yeah. Um, I don't think it's... I think we have seen... if there's one thing that we have seen proven over the past like two weeks on threads, it's that there are a lot of romance readers who love div diverse romance. And there are a lot of BIPOC readers and queer readers and disabled readers. But there's also a lot of straight Christian right women who will read romance.
00:48:49
Speaker
they'll read like male male romance and they'll be like wow look at me i hate everyone who has a gay right except for me because that my gay right is to read the gay books and like fetishize them yes and like those are the readers who won't read my book because because that's not the kind i wanted right they're like well i wanted gay but like different and you're like well they're the people who are tagging me in reviews that are like louise is bisexual and i'm like he canonically is not i remember that that he had like a whole crisis he like very specifically calls himself gay so like six times in this book yeah and people are like like bisexual king i'm like no no i'll fight them sorry no no i'm like listen i love i love a bisexual king we do more of them in books please louise is not one though
00:49:39
Speaker
Yeah, he is like a gay shortstop. That man is wholly homosexual. um Anyway, you asked, like, how did I, I guess, i'll approach it? No, i keep getting very off topic, um partly because of my hot takes.
00:49:54
Speaker
I love a hot take. But I think, like, I guess this is a, like... Blessing in Disguise, again, that when I was writing it, I was not super plugged in to like, what sports romance readership wanted.
00:50:11
Speaker
I'm putting air quotes around wanted. um Because I didn't, i guess, like, I never considered writing this book another way. on e A, I think it'd be really dishonest to write a baseball romance where all the central characters are white.
00:50:28
Speaker
If you look at a baseball team, that is just simply not the case. The minor leagues in particular are like, I think last I checked, more than half Latin American.
00:50:39
Speaker
Like, they are... Baseball is not a super white sport, even though I think the image we have of it as a country is like... Because it's, you know, it's the American pastime and Americans are racist. So like, they imagine it. It's like State Department AI generated like, this is the homeland. People who are like, yeah, I'm so white. No. It's like, that's not the reality of baseball. And I like, love that about baseball. And so I i wouldn't have written this book.
00:51:15
Speaker
And like presented a heavily white team just because it's not it's important to me that like it feels like baseball. Right. um Yeah.
00:51:26
Speaker
And part of that also is like baseball players are not all really tall. They're not all like they don't tend to be really beefy. Um, they're often like more slim unless they're like a slugger. Like your one job is to go out there and hit home runs. Yeah. Or you're Cal Raleigh and you have the fattest ass known to man.
00:51:48
Speaker
And I'm like, I'm in heaven. Um, But, like, baseball players can really be any shape. There are a lot of fat baseball players, which I love.
00:51:59
Speaker
um It's part of, like, why I started – when I started watching baseball, I got so into it it. that I was like, oh, there are so many different kinds of bodies on that field right now. And you all can be successful. Yes. Like, you don't – yeah.
00:52:16
Speaker
Like – And I like I'm not really saying anything groundbreaking. This is like the first paragraph of the literal book we're talking about. It's just I love to watch a sport where you can truly be.
00:52:31
Speaker
Basically any shape and like. Be really good, not just like you can make it work, you can be really good because there are so many ways to be good at baseball.
00:52:42
Speaker
Yeah. um Like there's a reason like Gene's not out there hitting home runs every five minutes. Like he's really fast and he's small and he gets on base and that's why he's the leadoff hitter. Like that's a brand of baseball player and you can be very successful doing it.
00:52:58
Speaker
um
00:53:01
Speaker
I really love that about baseball. I love that baseball is not like hockey white. i he um there have been gay baseball players. They weren't out when they were playing, but like there have, there's been gay players in every sport to be clear. um um Obviously there's gay people everywhere, but like case we're everywhere. we're everywhere um I just didn't really think about writing the book any other way.
00:53:29
Speaker
um Once it got closer to publication though, you do have to realize like, I'm trying to think of like a way to phrase this. It doesn't sound like really bleak.
00:53:42
Speaker
um The realities for a trans author and really any queer author are different in, especially in any genre. And I think uniquely different in romance. um Because there is a sense in romance that you are trying to sell, like, that these characters are sexy.
00:54:02
Speaker
And so when you're writing a character, like I'm, my main character is a five foot two, gay trans man and that is like not what most people think I mean most people myself not included it's not what most people think of when they're like sexy man um and so I think there is the reality that you are not going to sell your book to as many people who just want to read something really sexy even if it is really sexy because it's not like
00:54:38
Speaker
They can't put themselves... Right. They can't... preach Like, intentionally, I don't want a cis woman to project onto Jean. Like, that's not... and I mean, listen.
00:54:50
Speaker
Unless that cis woman has some things to discover about herself, which I support and think is great. ah um But, like...
00:55:01
Speaker
Inherently, when I'm writing a book that is about like a gay trans man and his like gay Latino boyfriend who is like – five foot nine and really skinny. I'm like, okay, I am not writing this for people is really sexy to these characters.
00:55:23
Speaker
I think they're both really hot, but I'm very conscious that I'm not writing to them. The average romance reader right now. And I think, I think the average romance reader needs to do some self... Some thinking. Because I think that a good romance novel can take a character that I am like disgusted by.
00:55:48
Speaker
But because they're... and i And because their love interest or their main character or like whoever is so into them, by the end of it, I'm like, I see it and you're sexy. Right? Like, that's what I want out of romance novels. I don't need to be personally attracted to a trans gay man who's never gonna look at me and be like wow i want to get with you because i'm not a man right like i don't need to be like whoa i am like physically attracted to you and find like want to have sex with you it's like no i just need to believe they right i'm like listen if i only read romance novels that catered to my taste in men i would never read romance novels because i'm like ew he's six foot three
00:56:28
Speaker
ah Oh, God. I can't even reach him. well um And I'm like, i there's few things less attractive to me in a man than abs. So like there's good just I'm really really starving for men who are attractive in romance novels. Oh, God. Yeah. That's fine.
00:56:50
Speaker
Like, I want the characters to... You have to sell me on the characters being very attracted to each other. Yeah. You have to, like... And I think this is similar to if I read a sports romance that is about a sport that I'm not especially interested in, that's fine. You have to sell me on the stakes for those characters.
00:57:10
Speaker
Do I care about it for them? Do I believe this chemistry for them? I'm very sorry if you can hear the siren outside. I it. love it. love it. I'm drawing it in the background.
00:57:21
Speaker
And this is how we're setting the scene. I live in New York. ah Across from a hospital. ah But that like, but you can be consciously aware of this and the reality. I never, when I sold this book, I never was like, I'm going to sell like Emily Henry. well It's just the reality. Mm-hmm.
00:57:47
Speaker
it's really a even other cis straight authors don't sell like emily henry um and queer authors even the very successful ones do not sell like the very successful cishet authors and this goes obviously doubly triply for any other marginalization you add on top of this um yeah i had this realization in a book event this april
00:58:16
Speaker
for an author that I adore, like I really love her books. It was Lila Sage. I'm obsessed with her books. But I was sitting there and I was like, where is and lettuce it was a so it was her first event this year. I did go to the one where you were the conversation partner me though. I was there. i was like, wait. Like ships in the night.
00:58:36
Speaker
But I do, I go to her events and I look around at the line and the crowd and I'm like, I can think of like a handful of queer authors who pull crowds like that. And one of them is the author of Red, White and Royal Blue. was going to say, like, is the list Casey McQuiston? Yeah, like not Casey McQuiston. So like, I don't see that happening for me. And I had to like sit with that and be like, I want that because I like aspire to that level of.
00:59:04
Speaker
readership and adoration whatever it's a problem we're trying to work on my thought my like thinking that fame is going to be good for me and i might not even get it whatever it's fine ah but like i had to sit with that and be like huh and especially because i write like sapphic and romance pretty much exclusively and there are a lot of women who like will read male male romance and they will never pick up a sapphic romance because they're like oh i don't get it and i'm like Because a lot of the people who read, like, gay romance are misogynists.
00:59:36
Speaker
And homophobic in the deepest of ways. Yeah. And I'm like, I've never understood that because I was like, well, I was a straight woman and I liked reading, like, lesbian romance or sapphic romance more. And then it's like, well, Kirsten, no, you weren't a straight woman. You're you thought you were hit like that's not. You're not the same.
00:59:53
Speaker
it's But it's interesting, though, because, like i like, I have a friend who works at a bookstore And, like, I have friends who write sapphic romance. And there is this, in like, I think that outside of like, the insular group of, like, romance readership, there is this impression, and, like, publishing says it so often, that, like, sapphic romance doesn't sell like gay romance.
01:00:17
Speaker
I don't think it's true. Like, I yeah think that...
Diverse Romance Readership: Sapphic and Trans Focus
01:00:22
Speaker
There is hungry readership. Yes. I think that sapphic romance sometimes it's, like...
01:00:29
Speaker
it's almost, it's like harder to break out. You're not like, it's harder to break out the way like Red, White, and Royal Blue broke out. okay But there is a very stable readership of sapphic romance. And I think that that is also true of like trans romance. I think a lot of people read trans romance who don't read any other romance novels.
01:00:51
Speaker
I think that's true of sapphic romance too. um So you're like pulling in from a slightly different, like okay, I've done a lot of conversation partner. I've been conversation partners for a very wide group of people. like Lila Sage is a very different author from TJ Alexander.
01:01:09
Speaker
And I've been a conversation partner for both. And it's very funny to be at like a TJ Alexander event and be like, oh, these people were also all at my event. i've I know these people. Yeah. Yeah, that's my buddy in the audience. that's when i've I've met them 10 times now.
01:01:26
Speaker
um And like I'll go to those events and I will be like asked to sign a lot of copies of my book. Versus if I'm a conversation partner for an author who writes cis straight white books, I don't sell any copies of my book. like And no one... I had someone come up to me after that event and be like, I've read so many of your books.
01:01:47
Speaker
And I was like, well, I only have one. I was like, oh, thank you so much. And then they like left. And I was like, I don't know if you think I'm TJ Alexander or yeah or you're just trying to be polite. It's fine either way. Like, honestly, it's okay.
01:02:04
Speaker
It's nice. But also you're wrong. You are wrong, but that's okay. People are wrong about all sorts of things. Um, it's least they were wrong in like a very well-meaning kind of way. and They were trying to be polite and like, I appreciate that.
01:02:17
Speaker
Um, this is all just to say like, yes, the readership is different. And I think the readership is smaller and you can be consciously aware of that. But there is like a part in the publishing process where it is hard.
01:02:32
Speaker
Like it is really hard to accept that. Hey, it like, the people who have read my book have said, like, incredibly kind things about it. And I think I've been really lucky that I have a readership who talks about my book and, like, passes it along to other people. And that's the most important thing a book can have.
01:02:51
Speaker
um It was never going to break out. Like, okay I mean...
01:03:00
Speaker
Really, we just have Red, White, and Real Blue. It's like the only queer romance novel we can point to yeah that has been like massively internationally huge.
01:03:10
Speaker
um
01:03:14
Speaker
And that was in a time when like there weren't a ton of queer romance novels. Now there are a lot more, which is great. And I want that to continue. This is certainly not me saying like, it's too crowded. Absolutely not. when Not crowded enough. However. i need more actually.
01:03:30
Speaker
um It's hard. it is like, and I think that that you can use the sports romance as like an analogy for it. There's just a certain subset of the audience who's never going to pick up the thing that you wrote. Mm hmm.
01:03:48
Speaker
And you can mentally come to terms with that and feel okay about it. And then when you see the reality of it, it is really hard. Like, and I don't know that there's a way around that.
01:03:58
Speaker
And I don't think it's unique to queer authors. Like, I think. Fair enough. yeah I think a lot of, I don't know, it is, I could talk about like the reality of being a queer author or any marginalized author in traditional publishing forever.
01:04:15
Speaker
But like with sports romance, I do think there's a certain part of it where you just have to go, oh, like, oh, well. yeah Then I'm going to write the book I want to write that I couldn't find anywhere else because no one else was writing it.
01:04:31
Speaker
um yeah And except that there are, the audience is going to be smaller, but that audience is going to be so happy that this book finally exists. They're going to be a little feral and they make up for it. Yeah.
01:04:44
Speaker
And like, honestly, i would rather that. Like yeah financially, you know. dr And actually, I would rather have like 300 people in the crowd. But emotionally. But like emotionally, I love talking too. I love, to me, like books are a conversation.
01:05:04
Speaker
Like I'm writing, if i like if I wrote this book about baseball, I'm trying to have a conversation with people to explain like, why this dumb sport shatters my heart every year and like why I keep watching it anyway.
01:05:20
Speaker
yeah um And like, I feel that way about so much in this book. And I would rather have that conversation on a deep level with people who care about it than sand it down until more people feel comfortable with it.
01:05:39
Speaker
perfect i love that that is like a perfect note to like cap things off i think that was really i liked that and i it's like yeah i think we should live in a world where everyone would pick up a sapphic romance just as much as a queer romance just as much as a trans romance just as much as a cis-et romance and maybe we'll get there someday and i know that like me personally organizations like we need diverse books and Literally changed my worldview.
01:06:05
Speaker
Because when they started, i was like in the church and very different. And now I'm. Sure. What I am and who I am. And i really credit them with and books in general with like changing and saving my life in so many ways.
01:06:21
Speaker
um And then there's just people who are never going to be willing to take a chance. And that's really hard for me to grasp because I'm like, but just do it. But just, but why not?
01:06:32
Speaker
Right. And they're like, roie it's genuinely like, it's sad to me, not just on a level of like my professional life. It's sad to me on a level of like, you are missing not just like so many good books, but I'm like, you're missing so much. experience Yes. You're missing so much cool shit about the world.
01:06:52
Speaker
And that is sad. Yeah. Yeah.
Connect with KT Hoffman: Social Media and More
01:06:56
Speaker
I am cognizant of what time it is. So I will ask you to let us know um where we can find you online, how we can follow you along, where we can buy your book.
01:07:07
Speaker
Okay. Et cetera. You can, I am on Instagram technically Splash Goblin um is my very professional. Yeah. ah username where when we were like finishing my book jacket, they were like, so you're going to keep Squash Goblin? And I was like, yep, but I am. You print it.
01:07:26
Speaker
Print it right there on the cover. Squash Goblin. um I also have a newsletter, um which you can sign up for on my website, which is just kthoffmanwrites.com.
01:07:37
Speaker
um That's probably more reliable. outlet um There will link to all of this in the show notes as well. Fantastic. um And then you can buy my book wherever I know this is like what everyone says, but wherever books are sold, um I would recommend your local indie personally. Yeah.
01:07:58
Speaker
Which if you don't have a local indie, you can either order from one in another city. um I love Greenlight in Brooklyn, personally. Big fan of Greenlight. Or Liz's Book Bar, also. Oh, I love them, yeah. Great store um and a great cafe.
01:08:15
Speaker
um Or you can get it from bookshop.org.