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Lich Please! Episode: 22 - HORROR STORIES
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🎲 Welcome to Lich Please! the ultimate destination for Dungeon Masters and adventurers alike! 🐉 Join Iwan and Alex as they delve into the art of DMing, explore the intricacies of homebrewing content, and embark on a journey through the realms of world-building. With regular special guests, we bring you insightful discussions, tips, and inspiration for your Dungeons & Dragons campaigns.
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Plan
00:00:02
Speaker
Hello, I almost forgot my mic then. And welcome back to the Lich Police podcast as always up here, always Alex. It's gonna be a little bit of a different episode today. We did have a guest planned, but due to unforeseen circumstances, they're coming on next week instead.
Horror Stories Reading Session
00:00:19
Speaker
So we're gonna do something a little bit different today. We're gonna do full horror story episode. We are, yeah. It's different types of episodes. We've each picked three. We might not get through all three.
00:00:33
Speaker
each, because that's quite a lot of reading for both of us to do. Yes. But yeah, we will see. Yeah. You know, you can go first. I'm going first. Yeah, thank you. That's great. Thanks. Cool. Let me actually do it on my laptop rather than my phone. That's a bit easier. So
Story: DM Nerfs PC
00:01:02
Speaker
title of this story is DM has BBEG wait no that's the next story we're gonna do this one first because this one comes first chronologically I believe. DM nerfs PC won't let player change classes then kills player with the class they wanted to switch to. It's a rather convoluted title but it does get the point across.
00:01:29
Speaker
This is Pathfinder and not D&D. Cool, okay. So I played in a Pathfinder first edition campaign a while back as a cleric. DM pretty heavily homebrewed the magic system, like a complete roodoo of the ground up. I kind of dig that, I'm not gonna lie, that's pretty cool. Similar to what you're planning on doing, kind of, with the pirate? Yeah, a little bit, yeah.
00:01:57
Speaker
But we said we should expect stuff to basically work like Pathfinder First Edition. So I start playing around level seven, and I'm grooving along. Then I start learning more about this homebrewed magic system, which uses mana resources, as well as making some mods that kneecap my class. Key bullet points below. That's never fun. With a homebrewing, you get crippled.
00:02:24
Speaker
Spells that were save slash half, fireball, holy smite, fire strike, etc. were instead save or suck. Which I assuming means to either save and take half damage. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Spells that didn't have saves, player, prayer and maze now have saves. That's kind of annoying.
00:02:53
Speaker
Spells that bypass spells, this isn't the change of light, instead do not. If you want to do the above things, you have to spend a build cost called talent to do so. Wizards get a 1 each at level 7 total. Wizards get a 1 each, Clarence gets 7 total. That took me so long to read and it's just a simple sentence.
00:03:18
Speaker
Clerics have to learn spells like sorcerers getting force level spells but still have prep like wizards. Spells also have prerequisites like you can't learn and create a restoration without first learning remove fear, remove paralysis, lesser restoration, remove blindness slash deafness, remove disease, restoration and each less poison.
Player Frustrations and Homebrew Challenges
00:03:40
Speaker
Or basically two full levels of learned spells. Wizards, I kind of like that in practice.
00:03:48
Speaker
in face value and practice, I bet that fucking sucks. Oh, 100%. Yeah, 100%. Wizards do have to face pyrexics as well, but their spells somehow have far fewer attacks there, and they can go from scrolls, and they can also get a force level for free. Many spells were taken away from clerics, but left in the hands of arcane casters, plain shift magic weapon. Some cleric slash druid only spells were used
00:04:18
Speaker
We used 3.5 spells as well. We're given exclusively to arcane casters, imbue spells with ability, spell staff. Cleric defend saturation spells when nerfed. Notably Death Ward which no longer protected versus negative levels. Or completely removed heal. That's not great. Also negative levels are house rules. They drop your effective level in terms of what you can cast.
00:04:48
Speaker
I get enough negative level to make spell casting impossible with the way the new house system's spell worked and would have to go hide until combat was finished. We could get back to town and pay another character to cast Reservation, then I could work on restoring the rest of the party. That fucking sucks. Yes. That's so bad. It goes on, so I'm assuming there's more. So I learned all this, bring it out with a DM.
00:05:17
Speaker
I say it doesn't feel fun playing a class that feels so heavily nerfed by the system. DM says that their design mentality was that the Wizards are masters of magic and clerics, and other divine castors shouldn't be able to be nearly as good. That makes zero sense, but yeah, sure, we'll carry on. I say I want to switch to Wizard then, so I'm not playing a class that's obviously been selectively nerfed by homebrew.
00:05:44
Speaker
I'm told I have to stay the cleric that the game doesn't really allow players to be wizards. Anyhow, because they're too strong. You've made them too strong. It's your home-proof system. Change your rule. Interesting. Meanwhile, DM is letting sorcerer slash monk charisma base slash paladin multiclass PC be approved, even though it completely breaks the game numbers. Galing, as it's dude, AC and save are 20 plus.
00:06:11
Speaker
Compared to the rest of us, it's only relevant to show the DM allowing broken things from some players and not others. I'm decent friends with the DM and have good friends in the game, so I try to tough it out. I do switch characters to a true neutral cleric of a magic deity, so I get enough, so I can grab some of the vanilla Pathfinder 1 cleric spells, though obviously the switch is for 100% mechanics and the party has zero connection to my PC.
00:06:39
Speaker
We get to the BBEG, and of course, the BBEG is a wizard. He's using the DM's homebrew magic system. DM knows how to break their own magic system. Of course, this means on one turn, the BBEG is the most amped up, disintegrated spell imaginable. I can't hope to make this save DC. And the damage is about three times my total health. My PC is dead instantly before I even connect. I immediately stand up and prepare to leave.
00:07:09
Speaker
but the DM has an angle, has an angel, sorry, come resurrect me, an angle would have been great. Out of nowhere and basically pride. I basically hide, provide heals where I can, barely survive the fight, getting to come out at the end and cast some stuff that's more than I give out HP. The DM wants to start a 5e game, but first wants to update the magic of a 5e.
Game System Editing Discussion
00:07:35
Speaker
I'm challenging the DM to run a game without a 400 plus page book of mods, as I've run 5E for years now and it takes a while to notice before you start tinkering with it. It's telling that the DM is having trouble lining up players for it and I have to turn players away from my games, which is then being full. Wow. It's interesting. It's very interesting. It almost feels like a DMPC story with The Wizard.
00:08:05
Speaker
yeah a little bit yeah yeah it does feel like that yeah um i don't know like i get reworking home brews are reworking home brews are reworking systems yeah i think we've we've spoken enough about that that we're well aware that we love a home brew yeah oh yeah i love a good old home brew like i get i get you know tempering the system but changing like
00:08:30
Speaker
the whole of like spell casting and and to make wizards really sick and then not letting anyone play wizard it's really weird um yeah and like objectively um wizards are masters at magic yeah i get what you're saying but like so what like the other classes they're just specifics like
00:08:57
Speaker
Clerics are given their magic by a god. They are doing divine magic. They get their magic differently than a wizard. And yeah, their magic is different, but they're no less powerful. They turn people back to life.
00:09:22
Speaker
I mean, yeah, I guess, I don't know, it's very weird. And I feel like that's a lot of, he basically reworked the whole of that pathfinder system for- He made his own system. Yeah, which is each of their own, but I don't think I could make my own system based off another system just from reading about it. I mean, to be fair, I don't know how much experience he has with pathfinder, but still. True. Yeah, I don't know.
00:09:52
Speaker
I mean I've been DMing 5th edition now pretty much solidly for what? Three years? Every week? Three years? I would never attempt to change any core mechanics like Magic. Never. Not yet. I mean Critical Role has just released there.
00:10:14
Speaker
own system, right? Daggerheart? How long has Matt been running D&D? A long time. That's what I'm talking about, right? Yeah. And that is people have seen reviews, it's very similar to D&D but with some slight differences. So that just goes to prove if something's not broken, don't go fixing it. Yeah. Pathfinder is an incredibly popular system. It is. And he rewrote it in a weird way.
00:10:41
Speaker
Yeah. Fuck over clerics. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. That's that's honestly, uh, yeah, I don't know. I forget about that. I mean, fair enough for rewriting a whole system, but like, at least make it viable. I guess. Yeah. Make sure that you have some level of equality for all players. Yeah. And then don't go outright, but don't include with it as a playable class and then say, no, you can't play it. It's broken. Just don't include with it. Yeah.
00:11:11
Speaker
Wow. Okay. Interesting story to start with. It was. It was a fun one. Right. So it was also really weird being on the other side of horror stories. I can imagine that was it was weird for me reading it.
00:11:28
Speaker
Yeah.
Story: Player Harassment in Online D&D
00:11:30
Speaker
Right. Okay. Let's go with... Let's go with this one. This one seems most interesting. We'll start that. The time I ended a relationship and destroyed a group by doing little to nothing on accident. Ooh. Yeah. Ben's a... Gone. Is this gonna be the one where people, they've gone on Reddit for validation of what they've done and then they very clearly have done something
00:11:58
Speaker
um i don't know guess we'll find out there's a yeah no i i read tldr and i read the comments and the comments were just okay this is top comment was like this is my favorite horror story because this is how horror stories should be i was like okay oh great that's good that's good okay there's tldr i joined an online group and was harassed by crazy girl which led to a total group meltdown um
00:12:24
Speaker
Supposedly, so this is yeah, this is player perspective. Um, hey everyone long time reader a first-time poster Recently with the whole corona situation I've been playing a lot of D&D of line online, of course Which has led to me think about my past with D&D. Just clarify this post is like three years old. Um, I just went for like really popular horror story posts Okay
00:12:46
Speaker
I've been DMing since I was 16, and I've actually only been a player in two campaigns that went more than two sessions. Yeah. Represent. Forever DM, yeah. The first was an amazing campaign done by a friend of mine who made basically a whole new world with literally 1,000s of years of written lore. Nice. He pretty much wrote a novel about the world where we were in, and it was awesome. The second hour was one of the worst experiences of my D&D life, and it all started on Reddit.
00:13:13
Speaker
Well, that would be my first riff. Yeah. Yeah. That's a new buddy. Yeah. So about a year ago, I had been looking for some new online friends to play D&D with. None of my friends liked DMing, and I was burnt out on it myself and wanted to play as a player for once. So I went to Reddit and managed to find a group to join. On the surface, it was a bit odd. On the surface? On the surface, it was a bit odd as I had to apply. But I was quickly informed that it was just to weed out people who were barely literate, since this was all going to be over text.
00:13:42
Speaker
and people who were particularly intolerant as one of the members was gay and that caused problems in their previous group.
00:13:48
Speaker
I mean, filtering out people makes sense. We filter out people, so I get that. I understood and agreed passing the first test easily, as it was just a yes or no test about not being a dick, basically. The second test was a bit odd, as my interviewer, a female, wanted me to roleplay a slice of my session with her to make sure I was a good enough writer, I guess. That's strange. I would have declined.
00:14:13
Speaker
that's strange um i agreed to almost seeing the red flags that were pretty yeah pretty clearly there and it was weird but fairly normal uh minus one or two times where she tried to make it somewhat sexual which i shut down as i really wasn't interested regardless i was told i passed and i was late in the group
00:14:31
Speaker
I was pretty excited to get in and to get playing, so I rolled my character, a human cleric that day, even though the first session was a week away. Yeah, fair enough. As I waited, I also got to know the group. There was the person who interviewed me, we'll call Sam, the DM, Sam's friend, we'll call Kate, and Sam's boyfriend, who we'll call Dave.
00:14:51
Speaker
They were all pretty cool, but also a bit off. Dave was super nerdy and awkward, but was an alright guy. Kate was very anime and would occasionally send... I have to read this... Nyan's with messages and then DM from a super channel. Alex, I'm an old man. Yeah.
00:15:09
Speaker
I'm not an internet literate individual. You're going to have to explain to me what that is. Yeah, well I don't want to read it. And the DM was super chill but just always seemed to be a bit off. But Dave Kate and the DM were all normal when compared to Sam.
00:15:38
Speaker
What I didn't realise at the time, but now Noah Sam was a total psychopath. During the first session she DMs me and starts flaring with me and not subtly. Now keep in mind we really haven't spoken much and all she knows about me is I like D&D and I'm a guy. I didn't even tell her my real name. I brush it off and just keep playing, ignoring her DMs and hoping that she would just move on. Things get worse though when she during the course of the campaign makes a point to belittle on attack day while praising me.
00:16:04
Speaker
For example, during an encounter, Dave rolled on that one and failed to kill an enemy that was at low health and was focusing Sam. Since I moved next, I attacked and killed it, which led to Sam chastising Dave for not protecting her and calling me her White Knight. I kind of just pressed it. I think in character, I guess. I don't really know. I can forgive that.
00:16:28
Speaker
Yeah, I can't tell. It doesn't say. Maybe in character. We'll just go with in character. We'll assume in character. Yeah, I kind of just brushed it off because it didn't really seem to bother Dave, Kate, or the DM who actually knew Sam, so I figured it was maybe just how they joked around. Just to make sure. Yep, Sam's boyfriend is Dave. Okay. Yeah, I was figuring that, but yeah, as we're going... Had to scroll off and check that. Yeah, good to confirm.
00:16:55
Speaker
The rest of the session goes pretty normally with Sam repeatedly DMing me flirtatious messages about the campaign which I ignore. When the session ends we all thank the DM and break to meet up again next week. Only Sam keeps messaging me. Eventually I decided it would be best to knit this in the bag and just tell her I'm not interested. I tell her that I'm already in a relationship and that I'm not really comfortable with the flirting but that I'd love to be friends with her. She takes it pretty well and agrees that it was inappropriate but also asks me not to tell Dave. I reluctantly agree on the condition that she tells him herself.
00:17:25
Speaker
that probably won't happen um the next couple sessions are pretty normal absolutely not gonna happen oh of course not uh the next couple sessions are pretty normal and although the flirting stops sam keeps chastising dave's character and flirting with mine so the flirting doesn't really stop um although dave and cat seem to be good sports about the two even joking about having their characters set ours up so i mostly just ignore it okay so yeah that previous one i think was probably in character um
00:17:53
Speaker
Besides my character is basically a celibate monk so I consider it could just be ribbing about that. Then one session against particularly bad. Dave's character is a stereotypical edgy knight.
00:18:05
Speaker
We had just taken down a camp of cultists and Kate suggested we interrogate them, but Dave, acting fully in character, says that he wants to torture them to get information, to which my lawful good monk disagrees with. Sam, despite being true evil, decides to side with me and proceeds to unleash a torrent of insults against Dave and Dave's character. The kind of stuff that would make a nun blush. After she's done, Dave says that he's done for the day and we all agree to break for now.
00:18:31
Speaker
I DM Dave about an hour later and ask him if he's okay. I also DM Kate and the DM and ask if this is a usual thing and what they think we should do about it. All of them tell me the same thing. It's okay, don't worry, and don't get involved. I reluctantly let it go. The next day, however, I wake up to a series of messages from Sam.
00:18:53
Speaker
the first telling me that she loves me and that she wants to be with me, then a 9-10 paragraph along one-sided sexually explicit roleplay between our characters, and then she sent me a series of news of someone she claims was her, which frankly I still don't really believe.
00:19:08
Speaker
I tell her that I'm seriously not comfortable with any of this and stop messaging me privately. At this point, I'm also considering leaving the group. But she apologizes and tells me she was- Hang on, hang on, hang on, pause, pause, pause, pause, pause. Considering leaving the group. I would have guessed, yeah. Not even sure yet. Thinking about leaving. I'm gone, I'm out the door. But she apologizes and tells me she was off her meds. I tell her I'm not comfortable with us DMing and she says she'll stop.
00:19:36
Speaker
About an hour later, I get another DM from her, this time telling me that she told Dave about us, and now he's threatening to kill her, and that she has nowhere else to turn. I tell her I talked to Dave, and that he seems like a reasonable guy, but that if she's scared, she should call the police to tell someone who can help her, given that I wasn't even in the same country as her. Yeah. I DM Dave and ask him what's going on. He says he doesn't know what I'm talking about.
00:20:03
Speaker
So I explain he does not respond for a while. About an hour later he tells me he just broke up with Sam and that this is the first he'd heard about anything of this.
00:20:13
Speaker
Meanwhile, Sam starts messaging me talking about how now that Day's out of the way, we can be together. And I'm a true alpha in brackets. This is the opposite of true. I tell her I'm not interested, but she thinks it's part of some act and tells me that she was only dating Dave to make fun of him and to use him for money. Wild. Okay. Wow. Wow. As this is going on, Kate starts messaging me, calling me a homewrecker. And Dave sends me an extremely long message that I could only classify as an incel manifesto.
00:20:44
Speaker
Finally, I decided to block all three of them and message DM and tell him I'm out. Interestingly enough, when I tell him this, he says that he actually doesn't know any of these people really and that Sam was secretly paying him to DM. Ah.
00:20:56
Speaker
He thought they were all pretty weird too, but the money was good and they most left him alone. Anyways, that's my D&D story. Yeah, wild. The DM must have been a good DM to be staying in that campaign for however long. Yeah, that was interesting. Let's still look at the comments. Sounds like the plot of soap opera.
00:21:27
Speaker
Before, I was about to say, and I'm glad I didn't, I was like, you know what? Dave's the real victim here, and then you mentioned some kind of, like, interstellar manifesto, and I was like, you know what? I'm glad I didn't say that. I'm glad it wasn't on Dave's side. I don't know. I think they had a lot of, I think, a lot of lines were crossed well before they decided to leave. Yeah. I mean,
00:21:56
Speaker
But again, it comes with experience, right? If you've been a forever DM and you've never had a bad, you've never DM'd for a bad group, you've never had that kind of interaction, I guess you wouldn't have that reaction, right? Yeah. I don't know. It's an interesting one. And I, yeah, I don't know where you know how to feel about it. What are the comments saying?
00:22:19
Speaker
Yeah, so obviously, as I said, top comment earlier was my favorite D&D horror story, because it's exactly what a good horror story should be. A normal person wandering into a confusing and dangerous situation with no clue what's going on. Yeah. So top replies. The replies that I comment is, this is D&D horror story equivalent of the community gif of Troy coming back with a pizza. Yeah, yeah, I was just thinking that. Elite reference to that.
00:22:48
Speaker
Right, what else did it say? Sounds like a plot for soap opera. Good thing this wasn't in person. This has all gotten out of control real quick. Oh my God, yeah. Yeah. The moment at the end when the DM just says they have no idea who these people are, but they're getting paid, God made me laugh. Yeah, me too. I thought that was funny. I respect it. You know, he's just like, man, this is fucked, but... Yeah. You know, if they don't message him and he's getting paid, I wouldn't care either. Yeah, I guess it's fair.
00:23:19
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. Like, I think there are multiple levels of. There are multiple levels of disrespect in this story to multiple different people. Disrespect towards the poster, first of all, the poster's partner as well, who they mentioned multiple times in this story being like, hi, no, I'm in a relationship. Leave me the fuck alone.
00:23:50
Speaker
Dave was disrespected. Then Dave did some disrespecting. Yeah. So the only person who gets out relatively clean in it is the DM, who surprisingly has done nothing wrong. Someone put, what if Cat, Dave, and Sam were all the same person? Because he's all on text. They've never talked. Oh my god. Cat, Dave, Dan, and the DM, all the same person.
00:24:20
Speaker
Yeah. But that brings the other actually, that's one of another point. Play by protest always intrigued me. So I've done it once. Yeah, like I don't think I really have an idea of how it works. Like how the roles work and stuff.
00:24:37
Speaker
um uh well so the Discord channel I did on um uh I did it for some person ran a Star Wars campaign I love Star Wars geeked out of course but yeah so I got into it um now there was the option to speak on mic or text most people are texting and it was in America so it was later in the night
00:25:04
Speaker
So I just texted. One person was speaking. Everyone else was just typing in the group. So on this Discord channel, there was like a bot kind of thing, and you could roll through the bot, so you just rolled in the channel, which made it easier. So that's where people saw your stuff. I left off the recession because
00:25:27
Speaker
A, the person who was speaking was annoying in the fact that he was one of like... How do I put it? It's like he was good at role-playing and he did the voice and that's cool but then he was so geeked out about Star Wars that you couldn't do something
00:25:50
Speaker
Like there were people there now I know a lot about Star Wars because I've watched it a shit ton and I'm like a huge nerd So I was fine, but there are people there who just like Star Wars, but don't like geek out to it, right? So they didn't know everything and then he would like he'd just be now actually actually that doesn't run Not Star Wars accurate not Star Wars specific, you know
00:26:13
Speaker
Um, were they the DM? No, no, just just the player. Um, okay. Yeah. DM didn't seem to mind, but I just, I couldn't be gone for that. Um, so yeah, I left, like it was all right. Like it was cool, but yeah, I don't know. It was a bit, it was a bit odd. Um, so yeah, I left, but yeah, the, um, the style, like the style system, there's an online system for it. It's pretty cool. Um,
Text-based D&D Dynamics
00:26:40
Speaker
Yeah, text from players is a bit weird. Yeah. Yeah. I've never understood how, because I've seen some people say that a turn can take a few days, depending on how long people take to reply and stuff. And that always kind of intrigued me, because I don't know, I don't think I could, like, it would never be something I could think I could play. No, I don't think I'll have the patience. If people did like permanently, I just really wouldn't have the energy.
00:27:10
Speaker
because more time than not I think my replies are weird like just in messaging in general but if I was playing campaign I would reply really quickly and then I wouldn't want to be waiting
00:27:23
Speaker
ages i'd feel rude if i kept people waiting i'd feel bad yeah i wouldn't say if i if i had to like the thing the texting when i was a part of we literally just did sessions it wasn't like always on so that was fine but also like with texting is if everyone texts at the same time so your message like will just if it's a reply to someone talking it just won't like it won't make sense that's true it doesn't hit the same
00:27:52
Speaker
I mean, I guess it's great if you've not got enough time and you can just do it as and when. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's fine. Yeah. It's fine if you can do it as a win and then it's fine if you don't have a mic and stuff. Like I get it, but personally, it just wasn't for me. Like I am. Yeah, I guess not. But like if you are listening and you are a play by poster, do let us know what you think and how it actually works. It's neither of us have a fucking cloak. Yeah. Anyway, uh, my second story.
00:28:23
Speaker
is by the same person and same DM. Now, I chose this one because I think the idea is very cool, but the execution is poor. And I thought we'd have a fun chat about it. Because I'm not sure I fully agree with the comments made by the poster. DM has BBEG announced totally new law during final fight. Yes, this was the same campaign as the previous story.
00:28:53
Speaker
Same DM even. We had a post-fight epilogue encounter and I didn't want to abandon my friends who were some of the players at my table. So we were up against Baba Yaga, secondary main to the BBEG of our previous big battle. We spent in-game time and IRL months during the campaign setting up forces, building alliances, learning about her family of witches, et cetera.
00:29:21
Speaker
Now we finally get to engage and take her down with our level 20 PCs. Very cool, epic battle on the way. We get halfway through the fight, she's on the rope and suddenly announces, you know, if you kill me, then the greater evil I've been containing will be let loose. You should let me live and take away your warlock soul so I can complete my ritual and contain this evil. The thing is, this evil had never been hinted at at all campaign.
00:29:49
Speaker
We researched, we met NPCs, we asked them questions, and even had spies learning stuff for us. We knew that Baba Yaga came to take souls, but had never been proved, provided it was even a hint that there was a reason beyond. Baba Yaga takes them to maintain her evil witchy powers. When I asked you about it later, the response was something on the lines of, you didn't ask the right questions to the right people.
00:30:14
Speaker
My fellow DMs, pro tip, if you're going to have law that massively changes the stakes of a BBEG encounter then you need to telegraph that beforehand. If you need to drop super obvious hints, even if you need to drop super obvious hints, otherwise it's like saying that the key potion to save the king from the ghost was under the guest matches his bed but the PC has never found it because nobody checked under the mattress of the guest room. So the king died and everything goes to crap.
00:30:40
Speaker
It'll leave a bad taste in the player's mouth every time. Of course, I'm not playing with this DM anymore, and hopefully he finds the kind of players who like these kind of rug pulls, along with tons of design against the PCs homebrew he likes. But I can say that most of my table players wouldn't be up for such a game. It's interesting. It is.
00:31:09
Speaker
I think there are definitely people who would like that kind of thing. And there are some people who would hate it. I'm trying to figure out if I ran that for you guys how you would feel about it. I don't think I'd run it exactly the same as that DM did. I would definitely give you the opportunity to find out that information or even hint at that information.
00:31:34
Speaker
I mean, kind of like I've been doing and giving you the prophecies or something written that's convoluted, that's complicated, that takes time to work out and you guys hypothesize about. That's how I think I would go about it rather than directly tell you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I agree. I feel like, yeah, I'd be more inclined to give hints. I just, I think it depends on the group here. If you know your group would prefer like the information upfront, probably just give it upfront.
00:32:04
Speaker
Yeah, just ask, I guess. Yeah, no, I agree. I prefer not to be told. I'd rather be hinted at. Exactly. No.
00:32:17
Speaker
Now, it's not satisfying narratively or as a player to have information told to you, I think. I agree. I agree. There's going to be, so obviously, as you know, I've been writing my Lord Augment this week. Yes. Yeah. Also, because they won't hear this until this is out. So, I'm going to send- Oh, the Lord Dump. The Lord Dump.
00:32:42
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm actually going to send in a document today. Don't open it. It's not going to be law. It's going to be a picture of Rick Astley, right?
00:32:52
Speaker
just on a document, that's a label, like the name of the campaign, just to fuck with them. So don't open it. I'm just sending that in. I was thinking, I was like, oh, you know, I could just fuck with them today. Just be like, oh, Lord dropped. And then they'll get Rick rollers. Hot stirring. Hot stirring. Hot stirring. I love it. You're getting into the DM spirit already. But yeah, in my document, there will be, there's already plot hooks, actually.
00:33:23
Speaker
Yeah.
Incorporating Greek Mythology into Campaigns
00:33:24
Speaker
Yeah. Like literally like there's I've done mine slightly different to yours. So yours has information on every like background information on every age and every city and stuff. Now I'm doing every city. So mine is I'm doing every city. I'm doing important people from that city or like who are there.
00:33:45
Speaker
and the cultures for each. But for each age, I guess, the first one, the creation, has no information. It just says, nobody knows the fuck what's happened, like history. I put in a plot hook there. You would read it like Friday or whenever I give it, Friday, Saturday. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That has no information. There'll be plot hooks for important people.
00:34:14
Speaker
honestly if you guys read deep enough into the lore document and were pretty smart like geniuses you would be able to figure out I reckon like a good chunk of the plot I doubt you will because it is kind of hidden and I say this knowing the plot so that also doesn't help but yeah
00:34:37
Speaker
Obviously, it will be to do with Greek mythology. So like that's a good place to start. However. There's a lot in Greek mythology, so I'd be. Honestly, if you don't figure out is you have you have Greek gods, but the mythology is kind of what you want it to be. Yeah, yeah, there's no disgusting things. Firstly, good, because it's great. My apologies for that. The Greeks were fucked. Yeah.
00:35:07
Speaker
There is no uh I'll say it anyways because you get the Lord so there's no the only gods i've got written down are the 12 Olympians obviously um well the 12 Olympians uh that doesn't contain um yeah well who doesn't not contain it's
00:35:32
Speaker
So there's 12 Olympians, right? But there was one that left for Dionysus. So Zeus Poseidon, Hermes Aphrodite, Artemis Apollo, Athena... Did I say Dionysus? Dionysus? You said Dionysus left, right? No, so there's one person in Greek mythology, there's 12 Olympians, and there's one person who
00:35:56
Speaker
switched out for Dionysus that I haven't included. It's not Hester. Hestia, yeah. Hestia. That's what I've included. Yeah. Yeah, I don't have Hester included. Or on the law document for that matter. But there'll be reasons for that. And then, so I've got the 12 Olympians. I asked the question on Monday. Yes.
00:36:19
Speaker
you did I asked where the forest man statue was yes and you said it was in a city I did say that did I say it was from oh what it's called yeah it does have a name storia which which I assumed
00:36:32
Speaker
It was a city named for Hestia. No, it is not. Damn, I thought I was being smart then. I mean, that was a good guess. No, so the cities are very similar. Yeah, the cities aren't all named after gods. So there is OK. There will be a few, obviously. But like the the one I told you is not.
00:37:01
Speaker
The main city isn't, I think, well I say city, they're countries. The reason they're not cities is because the maps are all islands just to make it piratey. Because if it was like, yeah, it makes sense in my head. Like it's all like archipelagos and whatever, so. Yeah, yeah, that's cool, that's cool. Yeah, so they're all like countries, but it would be like the same size as you on that.
00:37:32
Speaker
yeah so yeah he's not an olympian but he's included yeah yeah very powerful and yeah and i've thrown in three demigods and another god so there's eris who technically is a primordial god but
00:37:56
Speaker
I'm just going to count her as a god, just for the sake of it. Then Heracles, Perseus. Oh nice, you were going with the Greek name Heracles. Yeah, best way to do it. Heracles, Perseus, and I think I went with Achilles. Forest man? No, I went with Achilles, yeah. Achilles, Perseus, and Heracles.
00:38:20
Speaker
nice fun those are all the gods i'm doing um well all the gods on the lord document yes all the gods on the lord document have wonderful has everyone gone for different gods i someone chose to worship no one so when we and this is like
00:38:38
Speaker
Hilarious today back when I first decided this campaign and we still had the others from before they were removed from the group one of them asked for a god that Mike had chosen Flabbergasted because I didn't think anybody was gonna say this Flabbergasted I was like, wow, okay
00:39:04
Speaker
that's insane obviously I had to say no yeah well I didn't say no specifically they gave me three gods and I was like could lean towards the other ones because the thing I'm doing with Mike yeah it's a bit difficult for multiple people to be like rocking with that so yeah that was crazy
00:39:27
Speaker
You weren't meant to be here, Michael. I could have interrogated you if you were here. My favourite one is Emma's God. That one's cool. Is mine not cool? No, yours is cool.
00:39:42
Speaker
Uh, sound like mine's cool. Yours is cool. Um, I mean, we talked about it anyway. So, um, yours might actually be important to the one shot. Um, bit of a spoiler there. Uh, Oh yeah. Yeah. We're giving it as a one shot, aren't we? We are actually spoken about that. We maybe mentioned it briefly last week. Let's do the final stories and then we'll talk about.
00:40:10
Speaker
Yes. Because we're getting very off topic now. Yes. We'll finish our storage for you guys. And then we will discuss Alex's plans, futures and stuffs. Yes. So this one is paid players versus free players. I thought it'd be appropriate because we talk about paid DMing all the time. So we do. Yeah. I've been in the game for about two months now. And last night was the last straw for me. This post five year olds, by the way.
00:40:39
Speaker
I have a DM who just really likes hurting the party. Dungeon of the Mad Mage, no one makes a rogue. I join the party playing a paladin, a guy playing the only trap finder gets bored and rerolls a wizard. Group insists that I have to go first because no one can find traps. I try it but every trap we find we can't disarm, and every trap we do manage to disarm still damages us. Get a teen trap, I grab the blade after it falls down to hold it still. I roll a natural 19 and hold it down.
00:41:08
Speaker
Part A member melts it with acid, cable snaps and hits my level 5 PC, and the guy next to him for 3 D12 damage anyway for a cable snap. Sure. Jesus fuck, that's harsh. I think I'm sometimes harsh on my punishment, but god damn. At level 5 as well, if you roll max damage, that's like 36. That, for most players, is over half their damage, their health, wild.
00:41:32
Speaker
I was playing tank, so I had a respectable 23 AC. Nice. DM figures out I have 23 AC. Suddenly, whole combat goes without me getting attacked. Fights are small with bats. 14 attacks go towards the wizard, and the bard, a single attack out of 24 is aimed at me. Okay. Whole fight goes by. 78 attacks on five characters. Three of them aimed at me. With respect for counting the attacks, I was actually just going to get a bit off topic here. I was going to start counting.
00:42:02
Speaker
how many kills our party gets in your campaign. And then when we finished the campaign, I was going to drop stats for everyone. Things killed.
00:42:14
Speaker
amount of damage done yeah guys here's everyone's stats in combat that's a low worth take on it is but i don't take notes so easily like i could do that very easily and not be distracted by anything else so i might still do it um obviously it doesn't include like the past year but that's fine yeah yeah
00:42:33
Speaker
So Get into a fight a bunch of goblins going after the fighter I literally went the next in order DM rules every goblin 15 plus monsters attack the fire since she went in first This includes goblins who have to shoot around me to hit her her AC is 18 So they hit her left and right try to kill all the goblins goblins conveniently have double HP So he can't one hit kill them. I Would have left I know he's only been in or they've been only in the party for two months
00:43:03
Speaker
I would have left after the found out I had 23 AC and didn't give me any attacks. Wild.
00:43:13
Speaker
Same battle. Giants coming in hallway behind us. DM playing a druid, who wasn't there that day, has druid retreated into room while barking madly. He's a direwolf. I say, okay, I see him retreating, making a ruckus, so since these goblins aren't threat, I'm going to check it out. DM tells me I'm metagaming and rules I'm so distracted by the goblin, I didn't notice the direwolf barking 30 feet away. Flat out tells me I'm not allowed to block the doorway.
00:43:40
Speaker
Die Wolf lets the Giants in and they start attacking party. Killer Giant DMs rules it falls and I have a deck saved to not get pinned under it. Okay. I decapitated a vampire. DM rules since I have its head and it has regeneration that I revised from zero HP and bites me anyway. It severed head bites me. Giant hallway full of snakes.
00:44:07
Speaker
Tell us walking through it would mean us getting bitten. BM states too many snakes to attack. Can't use my weapon. Snakes aren't afraid of fire. Can't use my torch. No one has air of effects spells. Shrug and walk through snakes. No way around either. Plus six to hit on the snakes. Snakes deal 2d10 plus 3d6 poison damage per bite. Holy shit.
00:44:31
Speaker
Wow! DM tells us we are, yeah. That's insane. 2d10 plus 3d6, I can't get it. They're just snakes as well by the way, bear in mind. That's 38 points of damage max. So average damage is like 19, which is insane.
00:44:51
Speaker
I'm a zoologist. I know fucking animals. I would never put damage that high for that. That's crazy. Yeah, that is wildly high. The end tells us we're all dimed and should have just disengaged. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Is that it? No, there's more. Okay. Traps going from pressure plates and trip wires to being non-magical life sensing traps that only go off in the presence of a living being.
00:45:21
Speaker
I was throwing corpses down the hallway to check for traps since I can't find them any other way. Wow. Player casts Healing Spirit. Spirit in space with player. I walk through to get the heal. DM rules I can't because the spirit is too busy healing other player. Spell literally says it heals anyone who walks through the space. Rules there isn't enough room for my character, the other player, and an incorporating spirit. DM rules and NPC robs me of all my gold. No check required while I'm in Italian.
00:45:51
Speaker
Then we reach the final straw. The party walks into an obvious trap despite my protests. Party nearly dies. Fight one healing up. Party wants a rest. I joke I feel fine. I didn't take any damage. Why do we need a rest? Offer to take first watch. Wizard player arcane locks me in a room with a sealed demon who plans on killing me if he gets free.
00:46:13
Speaker
in a dungeon with wandering monsters that attack during rest and proceeds to cast tiny hearts so party can rest while I'm stuck out with the creatures. I state that this isn't funny, this could kill me and if pvp is allowed I'm going to wreck said wizard if he doesn't quit since this could actually kill me.
00:46:30
Speaker
dm doesn't stop him pie doesn't want to get involved so they don't stop him i say fine you want it that way that's how it's going to be if i live through this i'm killing the wizard as i can only assume this is a hostile action against my character and i can only assume pvp is a go since he's a player taking action against another player party gets out insist that i drop it and just go tell me to lead on since they won't go first because traps i refuse not tanking traps for a group that just locked me out to die wizard gets out i tell him apologize that we're going to have some problems
00:47:00
Speaker
Wizard tells me to go fuck myself. I say okay, I'm attacking him. DM chimes in, won't let me attack him because no PvP is allowed. Insane. DM tells me that player is a paying player and he's asked the DM to kill me off. Him and another player are friends and pay to play and they threaten to quit if DM doesn't kick me or at least kill me off and make me reroll.
Story: Favoritism and Player Exit
00:47:23
Speaker
Dien tells me if I don't stop causing problems he's killing my character. I point out Wizard started this, refused to apologise and that it very well could have killed me and if there is no PvP he should have stopped him before this all started. Dien says it's not really PvP to lock someone out of arrest in a dangerous dungeon and he can't have me fighting with paying players since I play for free. No one else knows this but me and the DM. I quit on the spot.
00:47:46
Speaker
He tried to get me to join different games, he was running as an apology, but I refused flat out. Never in all my years of D&D have I seen a player petition the DM to kill someone else's PC because of the fight they started. Never had a DM allow PC to bully other PCs because they pay. Worst D&D experience of my entire D&D career.
00:48:09
Speaker
wild. So it took me right into the very end of this story. I've heard this story before. And it was on Den of the Drake on YouTube. Very big channel. It does primarily read horror stories. And this was around the time we started the podcast. And it was where I wanted to read back at the beginning, but couldn't find it.
00:48:38
Speaker
because I think it brings an interesting point and a point that we've made quite a few times is how do you police as a DM paying players which is I think I've never quite got an answer to this I don't under like you can't yeah if you say no you can't do this and they go well I'm paying you like you don't have a
00:49:03
Speaker
Like, yeah, it's just difficult, especially if you've got a non paying and paying player that just brings in a whole cluster fuck dynamic. But the DM sounds like, I don't know, not a great DM in the first place. Well, I think the funniest thing about all of this is the reason I really like the story as I was reading the comments before I read like the story because I tend to do that.
00:49:29
Speaker
The DM of this story is a player in one of this person's campaigns and this person said despite his behaviour he's fine with him still playing and they play on Sundays. Supposedly he's a good player and the other players enjoy him
00:49:51
Speaker
So, despite the fact that I really don't like him and respect him as a DM, I'll deal with it for the sake of the game. If I did that, I'm no better than he is. Insane. I can see that though, because you can be a good player, but a bad DM. Yeah. Oh!
00:50:07
Speaker
Here's an update. He quit after two more sessions, spent two games basically AFK, no showed for the first session, quit in the fourth, five minutes before the game was supposed to start. He basically complained that I tried to not intentionally kill anyone, he knew this was the rest of the group's first game, and that it wasn't fun if I wasn't going to kill anyone when I got the chance.
00:50:26
Speaker
I always considered that if the dice kill someone, then they die, but I never got out of my way to kill a PC. I usually leave a PC to read out once they go down, unless they've been picked up once already, and then I'll try to finish them off. And no one has ever had an issue with it. Okay. Yeah. I mean, that's generally how I play. And I think that's how a lot of people play. I don't know too many DMs who would attack a downed player. I mean, is that something that you're thinking of doing?
00:51:04
Speaker
Never really thought about it depends I'd have to do a bunch of roles if I ever had the full of Someone attacking someone that was down but in more time than not unless a there'll be three reasons why I do is a it's it's for backstory stuff and It's like oh
00:51:23
Speaker
let's say someone had a backstory where they had a rival or someone that hates them. A, that would be one of the second songs where I roll to see if they'd try and kill them when they're down because
00:51:38
Speaker
backstory makes sense. Like if someone hates you, they're going to try and kill you. Even if like, when you go down, they're going to try and kill you. That's one of them. The second one is, um, if it's like a really smart, like caster, you're down and there's people near you and they throw an AOE. Like if they're really smart, I'll make a role to see if they AOE and include you in the AOE. Right? Like that's just, that's, that's how I think how I'd read it as well.
00:52:07
Speaker
Yeah. Um, and like the third reason, and this will be out of pain as if I didn't like someone, I was going to kick them out the next session. I would just kill them, uh, whilst they were still there. Yeah. Um, I can see that being a reason, but like, once again, not many people invoke my annoyance like that. So like, yeah, we wouldn't happen. Yeah. That's fair. I think to me, it never made sense when I heard people like, Oh, I attack down PCs. Why? Like illogically.
00:52:37
Speaker
Why does that make sense? This person, this enemy that you have can see you probably have like on our relationship, we want two, three others facing you ready to attack. Why are they going to attack the one that's a non threat? Yeah, it doesn't make sense at all. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah. And then I see a lot of people do it. Yeah. Yeah. It's very interesting. Um, but I would never do it with any, for anyone like a character. If I was to run that, people would attack down people.
00:53:07
Speaker
for god knows what reason i would never do with a character with less than like 18 intelligence doesn't make sense to me i agree that's that's that's a good baseline to study at and another point as well like to get into the interpersonal side of dnd because it is a game with actual people playing it is very difficult to attack a downed character and not make it feel targeted yeah oh no i agree yeah like it just it would be very difficult to do that yeah yeah
00:53:36
Speaker
I mean, I know, so I know Baldur's Gate 3 does
Ethics in D&D Combat
00:53:39
Speaker
it. If you play a tactician and you are down to near goblins, you can get attacked. In fact, more time than not, you'll get attacked. So I know people are used to it if they come from Baldur's Gate 3 into D&D, but it's different because Baldur's Gate 3 is a game. Well, so is D&D, but Baldur's Gate 3 is a video game. You're playing against a computer rather than a person.
00:54:00
Speaker
Yes, exactly. You're not even playing against the person in D&D, you're playing with people, which again brings in more interpersonal issues. Which takes us onto my final story about boundaries. So I guess I'll put a warning on this. It is... I'm not sure what to...
00:54:25
Speaker
I'll read the title and then if you want to skip forward, skip forward about 15 minutes and I'm sure we'll be done with this conversation then. DM demands to know women's body count in session zero. So I'll give you a minute to skip and then I'll jump into it. About three months ago, I decided to suck it up and drive down to the game shop after years of making excuses due to the distance of my hectic work schedule, which thankfully is now a lot more orderly. It didn't take long until I found someone who was willing to DM.
00:54:55
Speaker
He was a regular on Saturdays, and also desperate for some D&D. We both agreed to get a game going. His game was announced in the Game Shop website, and within, and in two weeks, we had eight players, seven men, including myself, and one woman. That's rough. At a Game Shop, that's rough. Not to stereotype people, but... I'm doing it anyway.
00:55:22
Speaker
She ended up playing the only female candor in the campaign, a tiefling warlock, to which the DM said, ooh, the horny race. Oh. Oh. Yeah, that's wild. She gave him a cringe look and just said, I'm just here to kill ASMR, lol. And the DM laughed really obnoxiously. Honestly, if I was her, I'd have left. As this guy I'm posting, I think I would have left. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%.
00:55:51
Speaker
I would have been like, I'm not comfortable playing in this game, I'm out. Then there's me, Halfling Wizard. Fucking love a Halfling. Searching Zero was basically an intro session for our characters and the DM. And the DM let us explore the hub of the sort of hub town of the campaign and talk some
00:56:12
Speaker
to some ex-planner spirits, which were basically there to tell us some campaign rules in a unique way, i.e. no metagaming, funky dice, etc. That's kind of cool. I like that. Yeah. As we began talking to one of the ex-planner spirits that is going over our character sheets with us to iron out any potential mistakes and letting some of the really unfortunate players re-roll. But then this spirit asked the Tiefling, so I'm reading your backstory.
00:56:42
Speaker
and I haven't seen anything about your body count. Mike clearing that up for me. Fuck me, I thought he'd be a bit more... interesting and just going, so yeah, how many men have you fucked? Yeah, that's insane. That is absolutely insane. He then just said, it's not important.
00:57:06
Speaker
Yeah, he then said, oh it very much is, with a wicked smile. She awkwardly chuckled and said, stop being weird, you're not getting my body count. The DM said, oh come on, it's relevant to the campaign. Your sexual market modifier will be influenced by it. Okay. Huh, okay. Okay. I wish he was joking, but he actually showed us that a modified character sheet was, yes, a sexual market score and modifier.
00:57:36
Speaker
Ah. She started obviously getting pissed and pointed out accurately that he didn't ask any of the guys about their male characters or the genderless plasmoid sexual history and he said, a key that can open many doors is a master key. But a lock that opens for many keys is a shitty lock. What? That's so atrocious. That is absolutely atrocious. I would have left by now. That's wild. That is wild.
00:58:06
Speaker
Oh my god, okay. He then joked about how confectus, confectus, confectus and Aristotle both lived in this quote. And this jackass started laughing like he was being funny in an irrelevant humor kind of way. Nobody else was laughing. He then shook his head and said fine. He then looked directly at her with a shitty grin and says, and says,
00:58:32
Speaker
let's see how ran through you really are jesus fuck okay at this point i'm getting up and imploring everyone to leave yeah you can't talk to someone like that that's obscene yeah that's insane he looks down at his dice back and grabs it and that 20 means you're a virgin and on that one means you offer the streets he and kept laughing at his own joke as he just shook ahead and left they mean a couple of guys followed shortly after uh while the dm
00:59:02
Speaker
role and then started trying to get us back to trying to pivot and reclaim it was a joke. He then just, he, that he just had a fucked up sense of humour. He gave up after a while and just played with the remainers until he could find adequate replacements. We ended up doing another game a few weeks later with a better DM and we actually ended, and we, and we ended up becoming friends. TLDR. DM tries to find out a character's body counting to 10-0. Though a ghost NPC thinking he could find out how ran through the player was.
00:59:33
Speaker
We left and played our own game and became friends Wow That's right. I think that's it's not the worst story we've had I Still think the other one's worse. That's like the second worst. Yeah. Well, here's the thing like With this story like it's really I don't know actually it's a tough one right because the other one was I
01:00:01
Speaker
was manipulative yeah but this story was like a red flag from the start and it lasted like two sessions by the sounds of it no they left within the first session i think oh okay yeah see like that's bad the other one lasted a long time like that i guess that's true like length of it does just tie into it and the other one as well there was more stories from it that i couldn't read out on this because it's absolutely insane um
01:00:26
Speaker
That, okay. Well, we'll, we'll, we'll, yeah, we'll factor that in and we'll, we'll keep that at the top, but this is rough. Yeah. Like, see, this would have been like, for me in this situation, it would have been very difficult because I don't tend to get in, like, I don't, if someone doesn't have an issue, I don't like to get involved because that's their problem. It's not like they, they're an adult. They can deal with their own problems. I would have said something like I couldn't do that. I would have been like that. You can't. Oh yeah. For sure.
01:00:54
Speaker
but I crossed the point where I'm comfortable being like not my problem I wanna say something straight away like at the start when he maybe not on that really shit joke I probably just wouldn't have reacted to the joke the first joke about the tiefling yeah I wouldn't have then I wouldn't have said anything but I wouldn't have laughed it's a really bad joke it's a horrible joke yeah but I actually would have said something when
01:01:25
Speaker
He talks about the sexual marker thing. I just be like, oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, don't get me wrong. I'm very unconfrontational. Like I don't confront people. Um, but in situations like that, like I'll just be, yeah, okay. Yeah. That's, that is a very insane story. It actually, now that I'm really thinking about it, it might be the last one we've had. The other one's really bad. It's just, it's up there. Cause it crosses so many boundaries. It, yeah, it crosses. Yeah, it does.
01:01:54
Speaker
Like the other one is like... The other one, the player had the opportunity to say no and I'm not paying you, but they did. So it was still, they had a level of choice in that story. And they were like, I am agreeing to this. True. This was, it violates that person's...
01:02:20
Speaker
Oh 100%, I wouldn't like even play D&D after that. Honestly, that's insane. Yeah, I think it's actually almost, not what I really think about it, it probably is the worst one. It's bad, isn't it? I think it's really bad. Like some people, it's just, it's people like that who ruin D&D for like, like A for other people and B
01:02:45
Speaker
uh like as the reputation for dnd i guess they make it a bad reputation like people just assume it's sort of like fucking like weirdos and creeps and stuff um yeah yeah insane absolutely insane um wow okay um to your final story which i'm hoping is yes not as depressing and as this one um
01:03:16
Speaker
Right, we will hope it's not. We'll find out. Absolute brat Ragequits D&D because we decide to keep playing. Three years ago. I'm still annoyed about this, and it was brought up to me again tonight, so I figured I should vent a bit here before I have to deal with this player again in a week.
01:03:35
Speaker
so they're still in the game. We're playing Waterdeep but shit's gone off the rails so the GM had to get a bit creative. The cast is Friendly GM, halfling paladin of the Laughing God that thinks they're a child that has yet to grow up and generally Robin Hoods about the city with a gang of orphaned children.
01:03:53
Speaker
That's cool. Okay, so that's who they're playing backstory. Yeah So that's the Opie Tiefling warlock that is questionably evil wealthy educated and likes to meet manipulate the jolly low intelligence stuff wisdom pally with interesting results, okay Shifter glamour bard that is generally a good time cool
01:04:19
Speaker
changed in monk with multiple personalities based on their chosen form, generally never goes to their weakling elf looking main form and freaks when they do. This is the brat, the changed in monk. Okay. That's a cool, cool like concept though. I rock with that. Yeah. Yeah. So we're down to players. So I won't mention those characters. Cool. Normally the party is a bit bigger than us view. Spoilers for deep below, et cetera, et cetera.
01:04:47
Speaker
So we just thought- Yeah, I guess they're big spoilers. They're like, skip, skip forward. Skip if you don't have the spoilers, but if you do, then whatever. So we just fought the poverty beholder and nobody was looking too great. Brack got caught in Pally's moon beam, so they were forced into their OG form. They proceeded to freak out and cower, trying to hide from everyone while generally being on very low HP.
01:05:09
Speaker
This is in-character and understandable. Cool. Paddy tries to give him a quick high five to heal them up, since we're essentially in a dungeon. They run away and cowl some more, eventually causing Paddy to tackle them to get a heal off. Probably not ideal, sure, but at least the guy wasn't in the danger zone anymore.
01:05:29
Speaker
Brat proceeds to get hysterical and compare it to assault and rape. Okay. Well, all right if you say so. Granted, they're probably just being hyperbolic, but seeing a character who mentally acts like a child rape them over a high five heel is a bit much in my book. Regardless, the session ended there and it was left at that after a few calls of calm down, you're overreacting.
01:05:55
Speaker
Next session rolls around and we start off in the same spot. Brat continues to cower behind things and generally refuses to interact with the party. Given that there's only so much one can do to engage with a character that is actively avoiding the party, we continue to play an attempt to open some of the chests Brat was hiding behind. While Brat continued their hiding sobbing tap dance.
01:06:14
Speaker
Okay. We figure after some shit rolls we need a knock spell to get these bad boys open. So Greedy Pally in the game go about talking to NPCs in the tower and learn that some of the apprentices know the spell. Great. So you make for their area deep from the tower, we get assaulted by animated staves, convince some NPCs to fight said staves as we slip off to continue our search for knock casters.
01:06:39
Speaker
brat continues to sulk now alone in said tower room with dead poverty beholder well alright dude you go i guess was the general consensus fair so you find a gargoyle and have a really fun conversation with them getting them to join the party since we're basically down three party members with brat sulking refusing to do much of anything
01:07:00
Speaker
Gargoyne is well received and proves to be extremely useful in the next combat encounter. Meanwhile, GM is trying to bait Bratow by giving them informal little mentions of NPC activity. They snub one or two of them from where I remember, but eventually finally stealth after some NPCs and find the party.
01:07:19
Speaker
We're in the middle of combat by now and not really doing great. But thankfully, our goal friend is kicking ass. We're thrilled with them and shower praise. Apparently this was a mistake as it enrages Bratt and he begins to make comments about us replacing him. But we hadn't, we just, you know, found an NPC, but whatever. So he sits and pouts and watches us burning up spell slots and taking damage from this massive demon thing.
01:07:45
Speaker
We finally manage to down it, but we're not doing so hot. Gargol nearly went down. We heal him a bit, but they're still not great. We shambler off and get to animated armor enemy. Now, we've had nothing more than a short rest at this point and we're pretty much all out of heals. Brat is still lurking in the shadows and our passive perceptions are shit so we don't notice him. He follows until we enter combat with the armor and our getting our arses kicked then decides it's time to shine.
01:08:13
Speaker
While Paddy is locked in a fight for their life and losing, he changes into a male NPC of the fight he was very friendly with and pops up from nowhere. Landing a series of blowers on the gargoyle and downing it in basically one turn. Interesting. As soon as he did, we all yelled in protest and cautioned him that what he was doing could be met with retaliation. But he came, he was salty and we'd replaced him so he's going to kill it.
01:08:37
Speaker
Even though we knew we liked the NPC and even though we were literally in the midst of combat on low HP with no spell slots to spare, they then teleport behind Bard, attack them, then retcon attacking them, ending their hellish turn. Interesting. So Bard pops their mantle of inspiration so he can all flee and cower about the gargoyle while Warlock spares the dying on them.
01:09:00
Speaker
We're all visibly angry and the party decides they're going to attack and likely kill Brat. Brat meanwhile downs the animated armour while we try to save Gargoyle and then promptly sits in the middle of the room. They drop NPC's form and take in a form with a more stupid personality in hopes we'd overlook their transgressions. They continue to repeat they were salty and had been replaced as their only excuses. Then later try to suggest their character was stupid so it was in character. Okay. So.
01:09:28
Speaker
Warlok throws an Eldritch Blast and Bard ups Gargoyle while Brat is prone in the middle of the room. I threaten with my longsword but eventually decide to just tie the clown up because man, I'm not going to kill the dude for being an arse. We've all been playing for nearly a year and the campaign is just about over. So I tie him up after winning the grapple and then he starts shouting I gave his character, which was rude I admit but I was pretty angry myself. Fair.
01:09:55
Speaker
I'll just imagine here that Brett and I don't get on. I'll just mention here, sorry, that Brett and I don't get on. So the fact that it was me tying him up didn't go over well at all. Sure, I mean, the other two were in agreement to kill him, but fuck me, right? So he goes on to say that he doesn't need to put up with this bullshit and enough people don't care about him in IRL, so fuck you guys. Oh, enough people care. No, enough people don't care about him. Okay.
01:10:18
Speaker
or something to that extent and Rage quits much to our surprise. He GMs every other week so he's dismantling his campaign now and essentially we've got one more game of Waterdeep then rip D&D with this group. The kicker is that apparently he's fucking livid with me, just me, so I can't wait for our final session. I'm half tempted to not even fucking go because it's not fun anymore. If this were a new player I'd be more understanding but the man in his mid-20s has been playing for ages.
01:10:47
Speaker
We're likely not going to get an apology, and I wouldn't be surprised if one is demanded from us for not dropping everything and trying to force his character into factor ass, despite the previous rape comments. I'm all for RPing and character development, but there's only so much one can do to engage with someone who refuses to engage back, yet expects it. I'm just still so baffled by all this, even considering if somehow I am in the wrong, even though just everyone else was clearly pissed off and out for blood. I just hope I don't have a follow up to post off this. Cool.
01:11:18
Speaker
That is the whole post. Let's see if there's a follow-up. Was it three years ago? Have you got to scroll through all this person's posts now just three years ago? Yeah. Are they that much of a prolific poster that you've got to scroll that much? There's a few.
01:11:48
Speaker
Oh, OK, so I don't think... OK, there is another play. OK, that's good. I'll check comments quick just in case. It's both a difficult one and a very straightforward one. It's difficult in the sense. Quickly interject. It seems the group broke up basically after this. OK.
01:12:18
Speaker
yeah so they never had their final session i don't think so yeah sadly the group just disbanded but thanks and they said it can be hard to find your groups as a girl shameless ended on such bad terms um we've had two kind of shitty stories now uh against women in dnd
01:12:48
Speaker
yeah insane um okay but obviously the poster is not in charge of giving that player a reason to engage in the in the game because at the end of the day like i said before dnd is a game you are there to play a game get over yourself play the fucking game
01:13:15
Speaker
or just fucking leave. No one's forcing you to be there. No one's making you be there. If you're not having a good time, leave. Go somewhere else. It doesn't matter. No one's gonna be mad at you for leaving a campaign. As long as you open a line of communication and say, this campaign isn't for me, so I'm leaving. Fine, cool, whatever, no bad feelings. It's fine. Do you? The DM, I think, and the DM at some point should have stepped in, I think,
01:13:45
Speaker
and been like, okay guys, let's all take a minute, step back, take a break for like 10, 15 minutes to remember that this is a game and there's no bad feelings for anyone. Because bleed is a problem in TTP and RPG. If you know what bleed is, it's the game emotions bleeding into real life, which is clearly what happened here. Yeah, of course.
01:14:13
Speaker
And I think it does come back to, you see a lot of people be, it's like two DMs who are trying to be like Brennan Lee Mulligan or Matt Mercer. You have to remember, as well, people aren't, like the people you see playing with Brennan Lee Mulligan, Matt Mercer, like on these streams are actors. They are profane, profane? What was I trying to say? Profound? No. Oh, they're professional and trained, but I said it as one word.
01:14:43
Speaker
So it's a new word. They are profaned individuals who are professional actors, professional, you know, this is what they do for a living. They know how to deal with that kind of interaction and separating the game from their real life. I think there is
01:15:05
Speaker
hundred percent blame on the the guy that left the guy was a dickhead but there is some kind of blame on the DM who should have stepped in and been like let's take a minute pause and breathe yeah I do agree the DM should have done more and honestly I was just reading some comments supposedly
01:15:32
Speaker
they've known each other like five years they've been playing role-play games RPGs oh my god five years yeah that changes my opinion yeah um
01:15:44
Speaker
So apparently they've like the group being playing together like five years maybe I don't know about the group but they said at least we know they were like oh we've known each other for like five years. They said this isn't the first time the players behave in this fashion and sharing this post would only antagonize them further which I'd like to avoid. I don't know if he knows about it considering how it blew up but I have no intention of drawing his attention to it as he won't change. He'll get mad and hate me more.
01:16:14
Speaker
yeah uh honestly kind of wild and when when i read that uh this is a mid-20s man a role-playing a self-absorbed character uh i cringed like yeah what yeah
01:16:41
Speaker
Don't be wrong, really cool character concept and I understand sticking to your character at the start. Like when he was like carrying away from people and it wasn't impeding the party, I get that. And then I get the character's decisions to give up because that would be so infuriating having to like speak to
01:17:06
Speaker
a player so many times and they'll not give anything and then have to you know like I'd just be so annoyed by that point I would have just gone with the party and left like if you're not gonna give anything back there's no point in playing um exactly yeah yeah perfectly yeah uh wild that the group got disbanded feel really bad for that person um
01:17:32
Speaker
Obviously there are some things that like everyone could have done different. I get they were annoyed and stuff, but at the end of the day, that person is a horrible player to be doing something like that. But the fact they've been playing five years, yeah, it's a bit weird. Yeah. I don't know. I said there are a lot of bad groups out there who breed a lot of bad behavior. People get away with it for so long because I think, yeah,
01:18:01
Speaker
But I think there's absolutely responsibility from those of us who try and run a good game and those of us who try and, you know, those like you guys, you guys want to be there. That's why you come every week. Yeah, you are. You I'll give you a mission and you will be like, OK, well, my character like tear, I think, struggles going to some places as you might like have taken from his reluctance to do things. But
01:18:29
Speaker
Mike as a player wants to play, so Mike as a player is like, well, I'm going to find a reason that Tear does this. And the same for like, Finnan. Finnan didn't want to go to Falleon at the very beginning when his uncle was Lord, because he didn't get along with his family, but found a reason for Finnan to go, because Rosie, the player, wanted to play. Yeah. No, yeah, I agree. I just, I don't know, man. It baffles me that some people don't get that. Yeah. That's very weird.
01:18:56
Speaker
well that was um yeah that was a rough story again insane um yeah cool uh right so yeah your campaign my campaign yeah so um no i've been doing a lot of law this week um mostly doing her brewery i have already like a lot of the law in my head um
01:19:22
Speaker
As I said before, I know what I'm going to do for the law and I've just got to get in the document. I've actually got a lot of law in my head that I've not written down. Oh yeah, I won't be doing all my law. I know that's a fact that all my law will be in this document. Wonderful. Perfect. I love that. Honestly, I've been doing a lot of looking at your document and deciding what I need to write down because when I was thinking of how I want to do the document,
01:19:51
Speaker
I didn't know how much I was going to write for law. So just like, let's just look at you hands, see what he's put down, like see what, how much he's written about stuff, and then just use that as a basis. So like yours I've done, God sees the like eras, I guess. But I've had a separate thing for impactful events.
01:20:19
Speaker
yes yes yeah which you don't have i don't think because your impactful events are related to the changing of the ages yes that's that's like impactful events change the age so that was kind of embroiled together it's interesting that you're doing it different like that's fun i kind of like that so are you doing it in a very sort of are you writing it in a similar way to like how i've done is there's a lot of like brief information but it is just kind of like
01:20:46
Speaker
a basic knowledge that every individual in the country would have of this kind of history, or are you doing it a bit more detailed than that? No, so I'm doing like, yeah, like brief knowledge, and then I'll also have, which I've decided like recently, but I feel like this makes sense.
Cultural Contexts in World-building
01:21:03
Speaker
For everyone, depending where you're from, I'll probably draft up kind of like a separate law document, but A, something for
01:21:16
Speaker
like your knowledge of either the place you're from or something close to the place you're from be for um stuff that may be related to your like it depends what you write for your backstories but i'll probably draft up some stuff for it um because i feel like you guys would understand the places you're from um yeah i'll have uh
01:21:44
Speaker
I have culture things as well. I don't know if you've got that for your stuff. You might, but it's like, I don't actually, that's a good point. I don't know, but that's, that's cool. Yeah. Cause, um, so the thing with, so do you know what? Unador is all one continent, right? Like your thing is a Western continent, uh, with a bunch of countries and it's all connected.
01:22:08
Speaker
one huge continent that are sort of all connected that have been unified for what 10,000 ish years so cultures have kind of intermingled and it's kind of very integrated but yeah yours are archipelagos right yeah like archipelagos slash like countries like it's different a that um so the original country that
01:22:34
Speaker
has was written down in the books. Olympia is his name. Yes, I know. It's your law. Yeah. Is like the the basis is they're basically like the colonizers to some degree. They wrote the history because and they wrote that as the first country right like
01:22:57
Speaker
That was where basically mankind was. And then the other countries will have had multiple other races. And then once mankind developed sea travel, they went and did personal relations. This is just from a purely perspective point. This won't be written. I'm not going to write in law.
01:23:16
Speaker
Um, they went and colonized everyone in law. It's going to be Like oh, this is how this this is how this country was formed and this is how that country was formed um, but it's from the perspective of Olympia because then the people were at history, right so Like yeah, all the different countries will have different races and their own cultures um that have basically just intermingled with the original country it's kind of like
01:23:45
Speaker
I don't know if you've seen the letters of Quora. Yes, yeah. Republic City is basically Olympia. Okay, interesting. I like that. And then everything else has its own culture, basically. What? That's really fun, that's interesting. Yeah, except there will be influence on the religious side of things.
01:24:08
Speaker
like the gods in every country, basically like the Greek pantheon has taken over the world, right?
Campaign Planning and Player Engagement
01:24:18
Speaker
In that aspect, there's also gonna be, I've written this in the document as well, some of the first things I've written, there will be chances to find out what happened before the first age,
01:24:36
Speaker
first age written down it's not called the first age it's called like the age of beginning something like that um there will be a chance to find out stuff that happened before that because as i wrote in the law document there is a big chunk of history missing um
01:24:51
Speaker
before like no one knows how the world was created there's theories on it um i've written the main theory down uh but if you and i'll put the document as well uh if there are untouched places which may or may not contain some of the history but as far as everyone's concerned um it all started at the age of the beginning um
01:25:16
Speaker
Okay. Like you'll find out, you'll go for it. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. It should be fun. Once we fully finish mine, I can properly dive into thinking about subclass, thinking about character. Because right now I'm running three campaigns. And it's a lot to think about a character concept and stuff like that. Yes, yes. 100%. As you'll find out, I'm sure.
01:25:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, no, I can't understand. Are you still wanting to take over our Wednesday? Honestly, I haven't even talked to them about it since I suggested it. I'll bring it up to them again. Yeah, I could. Honestly, it's totally up to them.
01:25:58
Speaker
because if they have forgotten about it or aren't ready, that's fine. What I can do is I can just send you, like, you could just send them the Lord document and be like, have a read. If this interests you, go ahead. If not, it doesn't matter. I knew it twice. But yeah, like, I should have most of the Lord done.
01:26:22
Speaker
Sad Friday, Saturday, probably by tomorrow even. Also, there's some funny stuff in there just for some pre-spoilers. Obviously, I've talked about before, but Boblin will be like a merchant trading company. He does have a rival trading company, right?
01:26:44
Speaker
or merchant called the Anti-Boblin Trading Alliance or something like that. So there's funny stuff in there. A lot of the trades workers are goblin related. Yeah. I mean, you guys will read the document. It will be fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get to it. It should be interesting. And then, yeah, I've talked about my premise before. I might switch up the premise. Every time I think about the premise, I think it's kind of shit.
01:27:13
Speaker
because my premise was like it's the end of the era of pirates but then I was like oh you know what I'm gonna switch the premise and I'm not going to explicitly say the premise I'm just gonna give you guys like the background of the the world and then at some point you guys will figure out the premise yeah
01:27:35
Speaker
Because I feel like when I said the original premise as the end of the era of pirates is basically just telling you guys which way to go, which is boring. And I want there to be BBEGs from any way possible on the route which you guys decide. Because pirates aren't nice people, so you don't have to save the world.
01:28:01
Speaker
So my expectation is you lot are going to do something that I will not think of, but I will absolutely have a BBEG for.
01:28:08
Speaker
is how I've decided to play it. That's the DM Pro tip. That's the real DM Pro tip. Don't plan anything. Just have bullet points. Yeah, yeah. I will absolutely, regardless of which way you go, I might not know which way you're going, but I will have a boss for you guys to fight at the end. That's all I know. That's all I'm confident on. Like, yes, you guys will fight someone sick. Also, and this is like, I've actually been thinking about this question for ages and always forgot to ask it.
01:28:37
Speaker
As a DM, how do you feel about people retiring their characters and writing new ones before, like they're not even dead, they just retire their character? Like that's their choice. Yeah, I know. If that's what they want to do as a player, I as a DM have an obligation to find a way to fulfill that. Yeah, would you ever like finish someone's backstory, like I said backstory, personal goal for them, if they want to finish it, like before the end of campaign?
01:29:05
Speaker
Or would it all wrap up by the end of the campaign? I think it would be a conversation with the player of, are you really not... If they are really not enjoying that character, and they are really not enjoying what they're doing, then that timeline can obviously be expedited to whatever degree they want. If they want that character to be gone by next session, that's fine, we'll do that. For whatever reason, that doesn't have to be... It doesn't have to justify it to me.
01:29:32
Speaker
But I would always want to have a narratively satisfying end to that character. But at the end of the day, it's not particularly my choice. And then yeah, yeah, we'll do it quickly. Yeah, that's fair enough. Yeah, I thought you, I thought you'd do it. I could agree. Cause I've had conversations with like people before about, oh, I prefer not to retire characters. Cause they might be really important to like the main story and stuff, but, and in all honesty, I don't know.
01:30:01
Speaker
how much of an impact your backstories will have to my main subplot, like my main plot. Obviously that will be impact, but I don't think it's gonna be like, godly important, I guess. We'll find out, we'll find out. Yeah. Like, I would say there are characters in your campaign and other people's campaigns who have a direct impact on the plot. Oh yeah. Yeah, for sure. And like, it would be difficult to remove them.
01:30:32
Speaker
But at the end of the day, player happiness comes far before whatever I have planned. Yeah, 100%. 100%, yeah. So yeah, after I finish all the lore, I'll get maps out in like three weeks. Wonderful. I'm excited. Yeah. I actually have a question for you. Yeah. So, dimming for this group, I think I have had to develop my improv skills
01:30:58
Speaker
to quite a degree. I believe that now I am quite good at improving a session out of nowhere on nothing.
01:31:06
Speaker
How do you, how strong do you think your improv skills are going into this group? This is actually something I was stressed about. Really? I think it'd be great. I really think you'd be good. I think my, so the thing I was stressed about is not how I could come up with a session. It's how I can adapt to you lot because playing with you guys is great fun, but it's chaotic as shit.
01:31:32
Speaker
And basically being a first time DM, even though I'm not and I've DM'd before, it didn't really count though. For my first campaign, there are things that I'm trying to watch out for myself that I may just end up having
01:31:51
Speaker
not being mentally prepared for your chaotic desires. But I think it will be fine. I think I understand you guys enough now. It's been a year and a few months. I think I understand how everyone plays. Enough to know how it's going to go. And I said before, this is not going to be as a serious campaign.
01:32:09
Speaker
it obviously it will get serious at some points it's still D&D but this can be as chaotic as you don't want it to be and if you guys ever want serious moments I'm sure you guys as players will understand that like go crazy I know Emma's playing supposedly her most chaotic character she's ever made
01:32:34
Speaker
And see, see, you say that, but, but, but they're all big conversations in that. So if you're listening, we obviously have a chat or we, we just got everything when Alex mentioned the new one shot, Mike and Emma did some plotting. And now apparently they're not making a character each one shot. They are playing one character and Mike is a parasite. Now I would argue that is Emma's most chaotic character. And if she still disagrees.
01:33:03
Speaker
and says her character for the campaign is more chaotic. I am terrified for you. I think if you read the conversation me and Emma have had about her character. God. I think you really cry. I'm very excited now. I'm excited for this. It's insane. But here's the thing as well. She's made it so that I can be chaotic with her.
01:33:26
Speaker
And that makes me happy. Oh, that's fun. Emma does love chaos to be fair. Yeah, she's made it so, obviously, everyone I've said gets an NPC for the ship. She's made it so that when I play that NPC, I can just do whatever the fuck I want.
01:33:41
Speaker
Um, which is great. Uh, yeah. And so people have also, um, minus Mike because he knows his backstory, like, like a God. Um, this man's insane with them. People have given me like small amounts of free reign. I am leveraging that free reign. I am, I am digging into that free reign. I'm saying, I'll give you, I'll, I'll give you a nice amount of free reign with mine. I think as well. Cause I like to be surprised. I like.
01:34:10
Speaker
You know, I've, I've, I've done that for like players in the past and, and, and I want to experience that. God damn it. Yeah. I'm absolutely, uh, leveraging that for you right now. Treat me, Alex spoiled. I will. Oh, I will. Um, yeah. Uh, I'll give you my backstory now. On people, they'll listen to this. They'll know your backstory. Cool. Yeah. Okay. Here's, here's, here's my backstory. Grandmother.
01:34:39
Speaker
Yes. To Mike's character. Yes. Old lady. Yes. And, uh, the, your God is the, yeah. That's it. Nice. For those of you listening, I'm checking, I will give him an actual backstory. I'm not going to submit three lines. Obviously. That's, that's the broad strikes. Yes. Uh, wow. Okay.
01:35:09
Speaker
I will free reign it quite hard. But, and I'm just gonna say this now to everyone, the first person who's getting some sort of plot hook is not because he submitted his story to me first, it's because I love his backstory. He's gonna be Mike. Kind of. I'm excited for this. This'll be good. Mike will be getting like the first one to get a little bit of like plot hook for his backstory. I guess, because your God will be in the one shot. But,
01:35:41
Speaker
that's it's not really like your backstory relevant it's kind of just like how it happens um yes yeah uh but yeah honestly so once you don't read the law throw some theories at me as well um honestly what you guys think the the main main thing with my campaign will be um yeah i would be thoroughly impressed if you guys got it
01:36:07
Speaker
once we finish mine I think we will try and do an episode where we get everyone on after that final session and then at the end of that we can have some predictions of everyone together yes absolutely yes we can do that we can do that and then should be good yeah it'll be a great episode I've got a fantastic end to my campaign planned
01:36:29
Speaker
That's gonna drive you fucking insane. Damn. Damn. I think my end- It's gonna make you so angry. I think my end will be good. It depends. Yeah, obviously, I couldn't tell the reactions you're not gonna have, because you haven't played the campaign yet. Yeah. I'm sure it'll be as, I'm sure it'll be as angry as you will be at the end of mine. The one I want, the ending for mine, will be fucking amazing in the aspect that
01:36:59
Speaker
I think I would have done a good enough job for you lot not to notice how it's going to end until like the last five sessions. I think. That's the hope. Okay, that's fun. Okay, wonderful. If everything went perfect. Yeah, okay.
Guest Contributions and Future Plans
01:37:17
Speaker
Before we end, I think we do just need to say a massive thank you to our guest last week.
01:37:23
Speaker
Yes, who have done a phenomenal job writing their episode and giving us like genuinely so much promotion and publicizing their episode. And we are generally really, really thankful for like everything they've done. They've done really amazing. Yeah. A hundred percent. And as I said on last week's episode, I do have I have the one shot for the start of the campaign. I am going to plan another one shot.
01:37:53
Speaker
It will either happen during the campaign for unrelated stuff or it will happen just before the campaign starts for other unrelated stuff. It will be a one shot for world building but I might do it so
01:38:15
Speaker
the information you guys will get. It will be information you guys need, and then I'll run a one-shot for it to be based how the information turns out. So I might do something about that. But I will absolutely invite them if you guys are listening to this. Absolutely. That's fair. Yeah. I'll give pot blasts.
Podcast Availability
01:38:32
Speaker
Yeah. Cool. Thank you very much for listening to this slightly different episode. We will be back, as we mentioned, last week.
01:38:41
Speaker
We will be back as we meant at the beginning of the episode, not a week ago, with another guest. We are on YouTube, Spotify, Google, Amazon. Give us a watch, a follow, a listen there. Genuinely, really appreciate all the support we've had from you guys in the past week. And if you're new, hello, welcome. Welcome to the show. Well, not welcome to the show. Goodbye, actually.
01:39:35
Speaker
Yeah, but yeah, thank you for watching and we will see you next week