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Lich Please! Episode: 23 - The Return of Mike!
49 Plays1 year ago
🎲 Welcome to Lich Please! the ultimate destination for Dungeon Masters and adventurers alike!
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, and welcome back to the Lich Plays podcast. As always, I'm here with Alex, and we have our very first returning guest. Yeah. Wait, first? First. I feel so special. Nice. Welcome back. I did invite myself to be fair. Well, yeah. And I mean, we, yeah, Alex, we said we'd get you back.
00:00:28
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, you do. You do. Wow. I think this is the first time where we've not had to go, how did you get into D&D? This is odd. It's going to be a different conversation today, but it will be interesting. In light of it being a different conversation today, I reckon we actually start with my favorite segment, because we didn't get to do this last
Creature Guessing Game Begins
00:00:49
Speaker
time. No, we didn't get to do this last time, because it exists when we had you on last time. No. Before we get into this,
00:00:57
Speaker
I want to say for the record technically the record is now three three technically okay I hope I'm ready for this where I got the creature in the first round I just want it on we're not going to count it because it's not recorded so it is still two three but I want it on it stated that I did get it yes you did get it in the first round or the failed recording because the technical issues
00:01:26
Speaker
Oh no. We're not going to mention what it is. Yeah, it was a hobgoblin. Yeah, which he runs a lot of. I have I have said like, I did it because he fell to the cobolds. So yeah, it was a hobgoblin. I'm never doing a hobgoblin again. That is a shame. So
00:01:50
Speaker
Just to clarify the rules again, I will read out some stats. I guess it's basically it. The scores are 2-3. Let's make it 4-3. Cool. Right. Straight up. AC hit points and speed. It's 25 AC.
00:02:14
Speaker
676 hit points 33 d tiny's plus 330 and 40 feet of speed it's a big one it's our strongest thing yet very very strong we have usually gone for weak things so i thought i'd switch it up and go for something strong
00:02:39
Speaker
Okay, this is a total punt in the dark at it being, I'm gonna go with one of the strongest pieces in D&D, the Tarasque. No, I was gonna say that. That's my punt. It is a Tarasque. Wait, okay, that's got to count as a tie. I didn't get to guess.
00:02:59
Speaker
I did say I guessed the same thing right after he guessed. Because I was like, that's stronger than a dragon. I just ran a dragon. Yeah, we'll call it a tie. And here's what we'll do. Let me just pull this up.
00:03:18
Speaker
We'll run another one.
Mythical Creatures and Campaign Story Arc
00:03:20
Speaker
All right. Okay. Okay. We run another one. So, but for this one, you have to be precise.
00:03:32
Speaker
It might seem cruel, but you'll have to be precise. Um, right. Okay. Okay. So it's a dragon. We'll find out. Uh, 19 AC, 256 hit points, uh, and 40 speed 40 climbing and 80 flying blue dragon blue blue. No. Um, right.
00:04:00
Speaker
27 strength, 10 dexterity, 25 con. Did you say 10 dexterity? I did. Oh, is it, is it? Oh, um, um, the fat dragon from, from
00:04:23
Speaker
What's it called? A timber shard? No. I don't have a guess right now. Okay, we'll go intelligence, wisdom, charisma, 16 intelligence, 13 wisdom, 21 charisma.
00:04:48
Speaker
Can we ask, can we ask for one step, one other thing? Can we get the size? Sure. The size? Yeah, I can do that for you. If I can read. I think the size is huge. Okay. Huge. I think.
00:05:15
Speaker
You said all the speeds, right? There was no swimming speed? No. Climbing, flying, and walking, it's 40, 40, 80. Flying is 80. Oh, this is tough. It's not like a purple worm? No. It's not.
00:05:46
Speaker
Is it any sort of dragon? It is. Oh, it is.
Character Secrets and Campaign Progression
00:05:50
Speaker
OK, I thought it wasn't. OK. It's not a dragon. Oh, OK. It's not like a great worm or something. No. OK. We'll go. Let's see. Saving throws for like the bonuses. Well, actually, I've read out the stats. Figure that out. What we'll go for is senses, languages, and
00:06:16
Speaker
I'm not gonna do damage immunity. Not yet. That's fair. That's fair. That's fair. So 60 feet of blind sight. It's got 120 feet of dark vision and its passive perception is 23. Speaks common and draconic. Not gonna lie, standard issue dragon. No. No.
00:06:41
Speaker
Close, it's, you gotta be precise. I'm including like age as well, like. Oh, okay. Ancient red dragon. No. Ancient platinum dragon. No. Ancient blue dragon. No, yeah. Blue eyes, white dragon. Yeah. So the damage immunity is fire. Bronze, isn't that bronze?
00:07:10
Speaker
Bronze dragons do have an immunity to fire, but it's not an immunity to fire. Okay, ancient... Adult red dragon? It's an adult red dragon. I should have paid attention to the hit points, I don't remember the hit points.
00:07:26
Speaker
Yeah, I don't. Oh, but you said, you said huge, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Angel would have been Caucasian, wouldn't it? Yeah. I think so. I'm not going to lie. I'm pleased with myself. The fact that I even got that it was bronze. That was fire. Well, bronze. Yeah. Nice. Uh, so it is three, three. Um, no, it's four three.
00:07:52
Speaker
Technically for free. Yeah technically for free on videos that have been published is three three. Yeah Well, actually it's not is it cuz I got one right in a day that wasn't published
00:08:05
Speaker
Oh, yeah, because we back recorded it. We had mentioned that in the previous episodes. Sorry. So it's rolled on. Yeah. You know, I'm gonna take my three, three. Sure. Nice. So, um, cool. On to new conversations, basically, um, stuff that we've not really talked about before.
00:08:29
Speaker
something else before we moved on. The Tarask was a 25 AC. I can't think of anything else base game in like without homebrew that has a higher AC than that currently. Is there not an official stat block for a harder version of Tiamat? Yeah, I think there is. Tiamat does. I think there was in Fizzband. Yeah. I'm not sure what the stats are on that. The normal Tiamat I think has 25.
00:08:58
Speaker
um armor class is 25 so similar i think it's the same yeah unless you could find a higher one seems to kind of cap out at that um i know yarlaxle has a 24 ac yeah 25 is tend to be the highest for like natural armor anyways yeah i think yeah
00:09:29
Speaker
Wonderful. Nice. So we are on the Monday campaign. Yes. Reaching the end of Wednesday. If you're listening, let me skip this bit because you're not allowed to listen.
Integrating Backstories into Campaign
00:09:47
Speaker
Yeah. We're reaching the end of basically the first arc pretty much. Yeah. Um,
00:09:57
Speaker
Still a lot of secrets. There is. Still a lot of secrets. I'm stressed about this second. I am the secret. I'll be acting as your lawyer during this section, Mike. Yeah, we have a lot of secrets and
00:10:19
Speaker
I say we, yeah, not me. But there's a lot of secrets. And quite a lot has actually happened. So I reckon a good little recap of, basically, this arc would be nice. So obviously, we've got a Ulduram-wrapped episode where we went into it in depth. But pretty much, I think, up until two months ago or a month ago,
00:10:48
Speaker
we had, I'm gonna say about two months ago, we hadn't really done a lot of the completion of the first arc, I guess. We weren't so story-based for a while, until we just wanted to cut the goblins, basically.
00:11:09
Speaker
But that does mean, that did well, that did mean we got a lot of, I say a lot, we got information on people's backstories and some character development for, especially for Tyr, Astra. I say we've learned. There are some stuff we know. Like they don't talk about anything, right?
00:11:33
Speaker
Astra's telepathic tattoo. That's all we've got. I just want to say as well, a lot of the Astra stuff has been very organic on Emma's part and I've had very little prompting in that so it's like really props to Emma on having that. Big props. Extremely big props. Absolutely.
00:11:53
Speaker
it's pretty fucking good um he's caught me by surprise with stuff i'm i'm i'm thoroughly enjoy going into whisper then just like when we go to whisper with emma and um with mike and tear mike and tear em mike and tear his own separate entity when we go to whisper emma and mike i'd love you to sit there and listen so
00:12:22
Speaker
That is what's happening there, Alex. Personally, if I was there, I'd sit there and listen. Yeah. You're there for the tea. Always. Yeah, so I think quite a lot of character development has happened over the course of the campaign, which I'm kind of sad that as much as I'm excited that I'm starting my campaign, I'm sad that I have to leave Dan behind for like six months.
00:12:49
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. I felt that pain so much. It's like I'm really excited about the story, but I'm also quite excited for my pirate campaign character. He's the opposite of Tyr, I think. I'd say so. From my limited knowledge of Tyr and my compound knowledge of your character. It's exciting. I'm really excited to DM. Because A, it means I don't have to create a character.
00:13:19
Speaker
which I love creating characters, but I hate creating backstories because a lot of the time I'll either do too much on the backstory or do too little, and then I'll just be like, ah, shit, should have changed it. But I am excited to be DM for the mass creation of lore and world creation, which I have been enjoying. Enjoying? Enjoying. More than that, I'm excited because I know everyone's secrets. I'm no longer out of the bubble.
00:13:48
Speaker
I am the bubble, so I know everything. That's until the players start keeping secrets from you. Yeah, true. We'll make that chat. So your two characters are actually related. Yes. Yes, they are. Yeah. So I don't know how much we can get away with talking about it, but
00:14:17
Speaker
i think you both know each other's the notes of each other's backstories that you sent to each other i i haven't had mics i i'm sorry about unknowable we've been recording i have like 15 minutes yeah 16 minutes ago it's just very recent yeah so um i think
00:14:40
Speaker
We had a conversation today because I wrote my backstory today. We did. I have inadvertently written one that slobs in quite well with what you've already planned. It's funny. With no kind of... Yeah.
00:14:52
Speaker
It's helped me a lot. Because I had some stuff. I had actually quite a few things planned. You've had to move like a good piece of law, which I needed to write, which may or may not be in the document. Depends if you guys can figure that out. And another piece of law, which might be in the document as well. We'll see.
00:15:18
Speaker
It did help me quite a bit, because it just means when I get to that part, I'll be able to write a lot easier. Also means everyone who's listened to this on our campaign are going to try and figure out your backstory through the law document. I'm confident that they won't. Oh, no, they won't. It's mind games. But so you and you asked me earlier today, actually, when we were on call with our backstory. You asked me a great question. You asked me.
00:15:47
Speaker
in terms of secrets, how secretive is everyone? Like ranked, kind of. You asked for a tier list of secrets. I did, I did. I was curious because I've got a couple in there. Yeah. All I said was basically everyone's got secret, which they do. And I had to go back, had to have a little read of everyone's backstories. Not Mike's because I've read his backstory like three times and I just kind of know it now. Oh my God, you read it more than me.
00:16:17
Speaker
Enjoy it. You're in it twice. Yeah, so I would say after perusing, I'd say the least secretive is probably Casey's character. 100% least, I think. But it was really tough to decide who had the most secrets. I think it's either Mike or Emma. Wait, really?
00:16:47
Speaker
Yeah, I was expecting that. Oh, I didn't think I had a lot of secrets. I'd say, you don't have a lot of, I'd say like, like, secret of weight, I guess. The weight of the secret is like, quite a big one. But so is Emma's. I'd probably lean towards Emma having the most secrets, or like, the biggest secrets, because you two know each other, like some of each other's stuff.
00:17:13
Speaker
And I guess the others might know some of that stuff as well. Yeah, like be told it's not like insane secrets, but she would have been my first guess. Yeah. Rosie as well has just a big secret. Oh, in which I don't know if she'll decide to tell anyone.
00:17:38
Speaker
I just know no as in like I don't issue either like say straight away or get brought up somehow like later in the campaign obviously it will come up I don't know how she's gonna play our character so I really couldn't tell you I think she might like just talk about it or it depends if you guys believe her as well there's also that
00:18:01
Speaker
So honestly, like this is very, very secretive, even like Casey has small ones, but I wouldn't objectively like she has a lot less secrets than everyone else. Yeah. Oh, you don't, you don't entirely need secrets. True. True. And I would say, yeah, I would say Emma probably has the most. She's also given me like a lot of free reign.
Speculation on Character Backgrounds
00:18:25
Speaker
um which is great um so yeah i've been honestly like i've been so i kind of been procrastinating law recently uh from writing it like this week but i have been thinking about how i'm playing your backstories into the first arc so it should be interesting yeah very very interesting wonderful yeah yeah i don't want it to get away
00:18:50
Speaker
So I'm going to say I do want you when to rate the secrets of his campaign as well. Oh, really? Wow. It should put me in last. It's only fair. Dan is last. Dan is an open book. That's a second last. Surely I've got more secrets than Finnan. I think my backstory does, no? I think you're equal to Finnan. No, Finnan has a secret tattoo that we don't know about.
00:19:25
Speaker
Ooh, and then I guess that, ooh, Northine is kind of in the middle. So Katie's character is kind of in the middle. I figured she had something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's something there. And then we have Emma.
00:19:46
Speaker
like i don't know a couple of miles ahead of normal and then we have tear who sits maybe a few thousand miles above yeah i have a lot of secrets i was just curious about everyone else i figured that the top two would be mike and emma i figured yeah that's a fair guess you guys have a place to argue like and that's
00:20:20
Speaker
Yeah. It's true. Like every week I ponder if I've ever come close to like thinking of and saying out loud any part of your backstory every week. Do you have any theories?
00:20:35
Speaker
So yeah, you sent me a line to torture me mentally. I won't remember this. I will not say anything in response to this, but I'm, I'm curious to hear. Yeah. So you sent me a line to torture me mentally and I'm not going to read it. Are you happy to read the line now? Yeah, sure. So let's just hope my phone loads. It was my gift to you, but you can distribute it how you want.
00:21:04
Speaker
So let's have a read. I can remember the line as well. It's so funny. It's pretty good. I remember you sent it out. I came up with a theory. Offer it. And all you two said was, that's interesting, which doesn't help me at all. But that's the point. So basically, I don't know if I should read it. I suffered, and the others deserve to suffer. Everyone deserves to suffer.
00:21:33
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not going to read it. You're not going to read it? I'm not going to read it. I'm going to keep the mystery about it. I feel like that's only more rude to the rest of them. I will tell them, I will say the theories that I feel like I go out of this. So what I thought after hearing like all of this is that A,
00:21:57
Speaker
Tyr used to be in a temple of worship. Like he used to be like, not necessarily a cleric, but used to live at a temple is one of the things that I thought of immediately. And then B was, what was B? I came, I've forgotten it now. I'll get there.
00:22:25
Speaker
under pressure i am i am i'm coming it was that you had like a good friendships there maybe your own group of worshipers um i also think that you guys like the temple you came from knew about prophecy like the prophecies um or had a thought about prophecies to do with the media from just that and
00:22:55
Speaker
I think that, and this is one I've just fought for ages, I think Tyr died and his god resurrected him. This is just a wild guess, but I feel like that could have been the case for just ages. It's the skeleton wings, man. They just, you know. Interesting. Yeah. That's all the theories I got. Not that I'm gonna get an answer.
00:23:25
Speaker
As we said, we would say, interesting. Yeah. I just have a question. But you know, the gods have been asleep for thousands of years. So how does that fit into your theory about Tyr being resurrected? You can live a long time if you've been resurrected. And if the media... What do you think Tyr is thousands of years old? He could be.
00:23:48
Speaker
He could be. He could be. He could be. Not saying no. Me with my teeth. Interesting. Yeah. But, um, Oh, actually, so recently, um, without giving too much away, I don't know if you went and noticed it.
Character Development Reflection
00:24:09
Speaker
They were very close to uncovering parts of Dan's backstory that I've not said. Oh.
00:24:16
Speaker
I can't say I noticed it. Like, I can't say because they might pinpoint when they... You'll have to tell me afterwards. I have to tell you afterwards, yeah. I've been juggling a lot. Actually, recently, like, it was... Someone said something. I'm not gonna say who and I'm not gonna say what they said. Someone said something and I was like, did you just read out of my law document? Because of what the fuck?
00:24:44
Speaker
I was like, when are you talking about? Did this occur around the tattoo conversation? Yes. This occurred within the past month. This is as vague as I can possibly be. Last three sessions. That's all I can say. But they said that line. I was like, fuck. I was like, wow. That was quick. But it got dismissed as well quite easily.
00:25:14
Speaker
I just let it be, but then I was like, yeah, wow, that was really close. It's that Dan is Luffy. It is. We know you have the gear system. So in character, Dan obviously doesn't have any secrets, but in his backstory, he has stuff that he doesn't know. So naturally, when I was in character, I just had to pretend. That's a hint in itself. Aha, it is.
00:25:44
Speaker
But yeah, so you guys are actually very close to basically uncovering the only part of Dance Backstory, which is not meant to people. I mean, it's not even really known to you. No, I only know what I told you. I don't know anything else. Yes, I have plans. I have plans. This is a great question. In terms of flexibility,
00:26:09
Speaker
How much of our part, who in our party is giving you the most free range and the least free range for doing what you want with their backstory? That's a tough question. This might be a controversial answer, but I'm gonna say you might.
00:26:39
Speaker
What? I'm going to say you. That is a controversial answer. Yes, I know. But. In the way that I think the way things have unfolded or I planned things to unfold has modified the way that you wanted that you did things that have things have been done there. And that is the reason I'm saying because that has to have the most implications on the story as a whole.
00:27:08
Speaker
Um, everyone else I've kind of communicate and talk to, but I don't know. I can't say too much more with that. I know. But I think you can understand why I'm saying you. Can I say my, my feelings about the upcoming sessions? You can, you can. I am so fucking stressed out for the next session. I am beyond stressed.
00:27:39
Speaker
I am very excited because I know it's gonna end on a point that's gonna really upset Alex. I've been going into these sessions lately just anxious. I know, I am at least 95% sure it's going to have something to do with that fucking chest you've been holding around.
00:27:58
Speaker
I'm 95% sure. When you said last session, I unleashed you on the goblins. I was like, fuck, do it. I want to do so badly. I'm convinced it's something to do with that chest. I'm not going to get an answer until something happens. But I'm convinced. I'm going to let you respond to that, Mike, and whatever way you deem fit. Well, for context.
00:28:26
Speaker
My character has been suspiciously carrying around a chess chain to him for the past few sessions. And nobody has acknowledged it. I love the fact that Tyr has been so weird at this point that nobody acknowledges anything that he does anymore. It lets me get away with so much shit.
00:28:46
Speaker
I asked a question as well. You narrated that Tear walks out with a chest of change to him and I was like, does anybody want to do any checks? Talk to him and I was like, no. No, no. No, no. Cool.
00:28:59
Speaker
At this point, I think I'm just seeing how far I can push it without anybody asking questions. I can't take the blame for nobody asking you questions and everyone complaining because Dan won't. Dan never will. He's never going to ask. You could do some absolutely horrendous weird shit and he's not going to question it.
00:29:24
Speaker
It's that Dan doesn't ask questions. Astra has accepted that that's just how Tyr is at this point. Finnan's too chill, and Norphine sees that nobody else questions it. I think Norphine just lives it in perpetual confusion. I think she wants to question it, but it's just not happening. 100%. Absolutely 100%.
00:29:49
Speaker
But yeah, I think now is actually a good point to talk about sort of nothing as a character. And I think Casey is a player as well. And just say that Casey came in at a point and it was going to be a very difficult character for you for Teyr to play opposite. Yes.
Narrative Techniques and Insights
00:30:06
Speaker
And there has been some
00:30:08
Speaker
aggro in the putty and some bag of pods and Katie's handled it amazingly for the in-character conflict to come in definitely very happy about that almost like go straight to 100 mile per hour one character actively fucking hates her yeah i i i'm very thankful how well she handled that because that's like not easy to walk in on
00:30:34
Speaker
It just, there's no other way I could play it with Tyr's backstory, but yeah, it was like, it was a bit of hatred on contact. She happened, she happened to pick the exact character that my character would hate. Yeah. To the point where I think, quote, Tyr, do not fucking heal me. Yes, Tyr refuses all healing from her and she is the party Claire.
00:31:04
Speaker
I have had to stock up on potions and like really go out of my way to not get healed by her. Northine joining brought me great joy because I thought I was going to get so much information on Tyr. The second like when she joined. I have something on this. You start acting that way. I was like, fuck yeah, we're going to get some information. Rosie sent me a fucking message when she joined. She was like, oh,
00:31:33
Speaker
Uh, when you started like, uh, being wary of, uh, morphine, she's like, Oh, tier seems so suspicious right now. I said, fuck. Yeah, he does. We're going to get some tier law. And then we haven't got a single piece. You did that message. You did get a piece.
00:31:50
Speaker
You did? Oh, we did get a piece actually, yeah. You don't remember what it was? Tears wearing the armor of the, I can't remember the noble house, I've got it written down somewhere, of one of the noble houses, because Northine recognises it straight away. It's not Northine's noble house, it's a different one, but I can't remember which one. I've got it written down. I'll find it if you remember it, yeah. We did get an answer. And as per usual, no questions.
00:32:17
Speaker
Yeah. No questions. No questions. No questions. Yeah. We're good. Yeah. I don't think you mind if I said this. We had crisis talk, so in case you're joining. We did. No. You did say, I think you said on maybe a podcast episode that you told me that you had to talk. I think it was after a podcast episode recorded. You're like, I'm going to go on a call with Mike and Casey and do some crisis talk. I was like, OK.
00:32:46
Speaker
Alright then. Me and Casey didn't go into a talk. No. Oh no. No. Yeah.
00:32:55
Speaker
Yeah, the beef in game was a silent agreement. Yeah, no agreement, which is genuinely amazing. Yeah. It's really fun to roleplay that. It's fun to be a part of. It's fun to see it happen. Because I don't think a lot of people like to have conflict in D&D groups. Because it depends on the person, right? It depends if you're the person that, even though it's role playing,
00:33:24
Speaker
that you put too much into it and then you actually get annoyed or compared to actually just knowing it's a game and you're acting basically. You need the drama. The bleed. Yeah, the bleed. Bleed is a problem. Yeah, it can be difficult. Yeah, no, it's really nice to listen to. And I'm sure in the future, there's going to be more.
00:33:51
Speaker
I've honestly thought of how Yuan's gonna fiddle with my backstory, how he's just gonna fuck with me. There are multiple routes that could just push Dan into completely changing his personality. Like I've thought about it so hard. I've got things you could do to Dan and just like make him sad. Just perpetually sad. What the fuck?
00:34:19
Speaker
I wouldn't say it'll make him sad what I've got planned. I don't think he will because I wouldn't want to change Dan's personality because I love Dan. I don't want a sad Dan. A sad Dan would make me sad. He provides contrast to the rest of us.
00:34:37
Speaker
Dan is like, you know the meme where it's like one maladjusted character has come to my happy home life and his mum sends him off for the pack lunch every day. Dan is that one character in the party where he and everyone feels together, everything's great, everyone else is like shell shocked.
00:34:54
Speaker
Dan is, my inspiration for Dan is basically every time someone, like every time an NPC or character asks a question, it's what I think of straight away, I just say it out loud, as opposed to actually thinking about things. It is just my intrusive thoughts. Yeah, it is just my intrusive thoughts. I have an NPC for that in my, in the campaign I run. That's a cardboard. Yeah.
00:35:19
Speaker
Yeah, but um, yeah, I've actually I've thought about so much because I've given you quite a lot of free range I think
Tone and Plot Influence of Backstories
00:35:26
Speaker
I've just basically told you how he grew up and the one thing that I wanted as like a plot hook and that's it. So like, yeah, as you said, you're not gonna push him to sad, but they definitely could be a change in like, not a whole personality, but some aspects could definitely change I think, depending how you play out my backstory. I'll tell you this, I think it will make have done reevaluate his life.
00:35:52
Speaker
oh my god that's a big detail it's rough it will but also reevaluate hmm i'm not gonna say more i'm gonna leave it at that i'm gonna leave it at that i feel like you're gonna say reevaluate his profession i feel like that's what was gonna come you're not gonna say anything not at all that either no not at all
00:36:18
Speaker
Interesting. But it will all be revealed. It will be. I have a question tangentially related because that goes in with Dan being sad, which is just depressing to hear about. Do you think that after this arc that there will be a tonal shift? Oh, you are.
00:36:47
Speaker
And you don't have to answer that if you don't want to. I think there might be. I think the plot I have planned is going to be less heavy and less lore heavy. So that will shift the tone down. But I think directions, certain characters have gone in will shift the tone in a direction.
00:37:12
Speaker
Okay. Interesting. Interesting. That was half the goal. But also I'm wondering now too.
00:37:31
Speaker
What kind of tone do you think your campaign is going to take? Because you know everyone's back throwing now at this point. Obviously I've stated that we embody chaos and it's going to be really chaotic. Offer it, it will be chaotic. I have no doubt in my mind
00:37:48
Speaker
it's gonna be insanely like messy off rip like chaotic to shit absolutely everybody's made a chaotic character i'm not even joking every single person's character is chaotic right so perfect i wouldn't be surprised but i think
00:38:05
Speaker
I think this is an early prediction at some point right the way that I've been like mentally playing with your backstories at some point there will be a big shift and it's people will just get serious like it will don't be wrong it's still gonna be fun and chaotic but you will absolutely have some big serious moments yeah 100% I love that I'm on board yeah I
00:38:32
Speaker
I think I'm going to have some big serious moments. There could be a big directional shift for my character at some point if certain characters take certain decisions.
00:38:45
Speaker
Interesting. That could be. Yeah. That could be. Yeah. That could be. Like, one little old lady as I was writing the bankroll. Excuse me. And it's the original plot I had is completely out the window. And now I'm like, I love this more serious backstory I had written for her. Okay. But do you still have like extremely negative strength? That's so important. Oh, oh yeah. For context, I came to Alex and was like,
00:39:14
Speaker
If I take a one in strength, how high can I put my charisma? So I think on some stats, I think in total my character has a minus seven across all steps. But I do have a plus seven to my charisma role currently. Yeah, yeah.
00:39:33
Speaker
Well, it'll be a plus seven and then you're I'm guessing you're proficient proficiency my persuasion or something at level three. Yeah, my persuasion is plus nine and my deception. Yeah, plus nine. Yeah, nice. I love free. Yeah. She's a she's experienced. Yeah. She's been around. Yeah. Yeah, I also think
Character Races and Narrative Management
00:39:57
Speaker
I'll go a similar route with that you've done with, uh, with certain characters done with tear. Uh, with certain character done with their characters. I'm fucking up so many names today and just not talking about my race. Oh, oh, okay. Yeah. Your character wouldn't though, obviously, but others will, there'll be a state of denial that she's in about what that really is. Okay.
00:40:25
Speaker
That's interesting. I think half the party will do the same. Basically, that's interesting. Here's the thing. I can't tell how people are going to play these characters. So I can't tell how much they're going to say. So this is just off guess. But referring to your earlier comment about how you said you were going to have
00:40:52
Speaker
big tonal changes in my campaign, you think? I would say, I think the people whose backstories have had the most influence on how I'm playing the plot because of what they've written is probably like you two
00:41:16
Speaker
Probably you two, yeah, probably just you two the most. The others still have had influence, but I reckon you two have probably had the biggest influence on plot hooks based off your backstories, because you're kind of running towards things that I'd already planned just by accident. I guess that's why I put DM to make backstories. True. It's earlier as well. Yeah. Yeah. I've got to say, like, getting backstories from you two as DMs, you guys have given me, like, the most free range on the most important things.
00:41:46
Speaker
which is really enjoyable because that just makes everything easy. Like all the important stuff that you wanted, I've just gone through it. That comes from experience of receiving backstories and just knowing how like I would want things to slot in when I had them so I know what to give in return. Yeah. I'm curious about the information that you gave me. I was thinking I messaged you about it and you were like, don't think about the names too much.
00:42:14
Speaker
That's what he said to me when I was like theorizing about the names. There's a family name is what I'll say. It's not like, that's not revealing. And, uh, for your campaign. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. I mean, yeah.
00:42:42
Speaker
So just out of a hub, I can't even ask because I feel like it's important. I was gonna ask what names did you give him, but then that would also just reveal it to everyone else. And I don't know if you guys wanna do that yet, so. No, no, no, no, yeah. Wait, which, are you talking about the names I gave you? I'm still confused.
00:43:05
Speaker
uh just names the names oh god i'll say this i gave you the name of my mother and the name of my husband okay okay okay
00:43:19
Speaker
Okay, interesting. Which I think is relevant information. Oh, he didn't know what you gave me. Okay, I didn't know that. I'm not sure. I will send it to Alex now. All of us figuring out during this recording what we all know about each other. There you go, Alex. There you go. We'll do this mid-podcast so we can see Alex live react to the information that Mike has. Oh, notes for Mike. What an appropriate label.
00:43:48
Speaker
And to be fair to the audience, I don't know a lot, even with context. This is completely out of context. Yeah. I didn't expect you to give that part. Which part? I can't really say. OK. Literally like the first sentence. Pretty much. I'm cross-referencing. Oh. First sentence.
00:44:16
Speaker
Okay. I think that's relevant because I think as children, they would have asked. It would have been weird to just not acknowledge it. Yes. Interesting.
00:44:44
Speaker
Okay. A lot of this is going to be just interesting. Yeah. Yeah. It's completely out of contact. It's, it's just random lines of stuff. Kids would have been told when they were little and then. Hmm. Probably cause we're all just keeping secrets from each other. Yeah.
00:45:14
Speaker
I have something to fill it while he reads it, is that I think that I know the race of everyone in your campaign now. You win. Oh, okay. Interesting. Let's hear them. I won't. It's my interest.
Exploring Secrets and NPC Interactions
00:45:29
Speaker
It's my interest. I won't out of respect because I'm like, I'm like 99% sure I have all of them down.
00:45:39
Speaker
okay interesting um i've theorized on races before and i just gave up on that because i still couldn't tell based on what you know i think you're probably correct i especially think i'm correct based on that yeah
00:45:59
Speaker
Here we are After you read that list of information that Mike's character knows Yeah, I'm surprised that thing as I said at the start like the first sentence I didn't think you were gonna give away your mother's profession Really yeah more specifically the profession in which like The worshiping is occurring
00:46:26
Speaker
That's actually what I thought you were referencing. Yeah, yeah. I didn't think you'd give that away. I'm gonna be playing her as a quite proud worshipper of Kimo player. Okay, okay, okay. So like, it's not a secret for her that she has disdain in a way for Poseidon and worship his daughter over him. I'm not special anymore. It's just a fact of her life. Yeah, so I thought you would have kept
00:46:54
Speaker
You've got a secret and just paid off like it was exciting for some reason. Um, no, she's quite proud in the worship of, of Kimberly. You know, what I have realized is according to my backstory, I don't even know if my character knows what God he's associated with. I think I, I think I've realized that he does. You know, I'm just like,
00:47:25
Speaker
It was never said in your backstory. No, it wasn't. Was it not? No, it wasn't. And I prefer to leave it that way because I think it fits the character. Yeah. I agree.
00:47:43
Speaker
And then in game, if it ever gets revealed, I'm going to be like, Oh, why? I think if I were to ever reveal it in game, which I probably will at some point, it would be to you personally and not because of the way it is with your backstory. It wouldn't make sense for anybody else to know.
00:48:07
Speaker
You'd tell your dear old grandmother, wouldn't you? You'd tell grandma. Yeah, quite possibly, to be honest. Wow. Also, Alex. Yes. We had a conversation earlier that I didn't know what kind of NPC I would take, because I was imagining her being quite solitary. We did have an NPC. I have come up with a NPC. Oh, interesting. It's an ogre called Thunk.
00:48:35
Speaker
Huh. Huh. Love that. Interesting. He just exists. Yup. Thunk is like her porter who carries her stuff around. I don't have to do it. Well, when you turn up, you will be taking over Thunk's duties because you don't have to do it. Yeah, fair enough. Um, sure. Uh, I've not, well, I know.
00:49:06
Speaker
There's two people I still need NPCs from, that's it. But honestly, it's not a big deal. I'm so excited about my NPC. I know what your NPC is and I'm terrified. And I'm already planning how grand you're going to react to your NPC. I don't mind saying my NPC. Go for it. My NPC is a cat girl.
00:49:32
Speaker
We were allowed to make our own NPC. And I rolled a random NPC generator. And I came up with this Swift Strider shifter or something like that. And I was like, that's a cat person. And I was like, what would be the funniest thing to turn up to my grandmother with? And it was a cat person.
00:50:02
Speaker
So, so I have a cat girl in BC. My grandson became a simp. Yes. Disgusting. They're, they're just, they're, they're just, they're friends. They're just friends. Oh yeah, just friends. They're just friends. Coming to your grandma with just your friend. That's gonna be an ongoing joke in the cafe.
00:50:26
Speaker
Absolutely. Kind of being like, you're going to give me grand babies. And it's just not like that at all. Collecting those different legacies of different lineages. Yeah. So I was actually just scrolling up our chat mic, our Discord chat. Yes. In which, believe it or not, like 80% of it is just law.
00:50:53
Speaker
Yes, it is. I believe that. Yeah. So it actually just dawned on me. I don't know if you one knows this.
Character Descriptions and Roles
00:51:01
Speaker
You asked for character descriptions for everyone in your Monday campaign, in the Monday campaign. I asked for Dan and Astra specifically because I felt that Tyr was close enough to actually like. I see. Like observe. I feel like he pays no mind.
00:51:23
Speaker
to a lot of people. I'll ask about everyone eventually. Should it be appropriate for him too? I played Tyr very strictly.
00:51:43
Speaker
Understandable. I didn't know this. Yeah, you did not know this. I'm sneaking around. Well, I got the message when I got the message. So before originally, I never had really a character description. Even in my backstory, I have like a line of character description that just says he's tall and he's strong, basically. So when you sent this message originally, I was like, OK, I'm actually going to in depth for characters like I've played Dan long enough. I know how he works.
00:52:12
Speaker
I'm just, this is exactly what it's going to be like. So I'm just going to read out the character description for Dan, because I feel like people in the campaign would just notice this anyways. He's not really hidden person. So yeah. Seven foot four, very muscular, pale skin, red tribal tattoos, long green hair, and a man bun. I think that was all I had established in the backstory to you. That's pretty much all I knew. Yeah. Yeah.
00:52:41
Speaker
I have stated many times that he always wears armour and he's never not seen wearing it. He does, because we had that weird moment in the cave where you refuse to take your armour off to dive down somewhere. Yes, I do always wear my armour. Which is a very interesting...
00:53:00
Speaker
duality, a similarity between Tyr and Dan. Yes, they definitely have their armors on all the time for other reasons, like separate reasons. I have got a reason for it. You just have to ask him if you want to find out. I have a reason, but I won't ask because I don't want to be asked in return. Exactly. And that's how I play Tyr. Dan's hair is always tied up and never seen one down.
00:53:25
Speaker
I think once in the campaign, has it been seen worn down? And is that the very start before I just decided to play to this? I don't think, T, Mike, you weren't even in the campaign at this point. There's no way I was there. It was like three sessions in, two sessions in. I think this is the session before you joined. We'd gotten into town, gotten really drunk. And then I was like, yeah.
00:53:50
Speaker
Dan just was throwing up all night. He's got his hair down. Like he's come downstairs, his hair is down. That's the only time he's had his hair down. There's also a reason for that. You just have to ask. Like there's small details like that for like so many characters and you don't know what the reason is, but there is like a lot of the time a pretty significant reason, but it's just small things. Yeah. Yeah.
00:54:20
Speaker
So obviously, because he wears armor all the time, he doesn't show a lot of skin, naturally. And I said, from the limited amount of skin you see, there is a lot of scarring. Now, once again, I think that's probably similar to Tyr. Absolutely. But for very different reasons. So I think, I will say this, it's probably moderately obvious. Dan has been training since he was a child.
00:54:48
Speaker
For fighting and has fought things for years. That's just where all the scarring comes from. I want to say I suppose Oh, okay. I was gonna say I I I did specifically know you said that the scars look like weren't from deep wounds Yeah, yeah, it's like light wounds. He's never seriously been injured apart from them like in the campaign where he's been knocked but I
00:55:09
Speaker
The scarring he has is just from training, fighting monsters, and working towards being a knight. The only reason I wrote that was because that's just logical. I was like, yeah, he's going to have some scarring. It makes sense.
00:55:25
Speaker
I also said, and I think I wrote this in the backstory as well, I said Dan was slightly smarter than most Goliath's. Yes, I thought about that in music. Yeah, when you write it down, it's so... Like, if you're in the campaign, that is stupid. And then when I wrote, he's smarter than most Goliath's, probably comes across so funny. There's a reason for that as well. Yuan knows the reason because I wrote it in his backstory.
00:55:52
Speaker
um yes yeah yeah no one else does i'm sure you'll find out um i have also and this is the last thing i stated and i no one's really asked about it and i've never described it i think in character i did i did state that his equipment's always clean and taken care of especially shield and axe which are a set um and that's where i left the whole description um
00:56:22
Speaker
until someone asks about his shield and axe, or why his equipment's always clean, I'm not gonna say. Once again, small reasons, not a huge thing that impacts everyone's lives, but I decided on those things because I was like, this feels like a type of thing that Dan would do, and these are the reasons. I'll probably message you with it later on, unless they ask before I message you about the reasons, but yeah.
00:56:48
Speaker
just smaller reasons. It's a good description. So at the beginning of the, well, near the beginning of the podcast we talked about someone having secrets. You said Dan has none and then have proceeded to left here multiple secrets that Dan has. They're not like explicit secrets, right? Like he will say if he asks, it's just, these are stuff I decided that like people will start to notice now on the campaign, um, considering we've known each other. Well, we've been paying for a year. We've known each other for what, like four weeks?
00:57:18
Speaker
It's got to be more than that now because the past like two sessions, we skipped forward a week. So it's got to be. It's been like two or three months. Yeah. And yeah, I actually and Mike sent me a description of tea, which was nice. I did enjoy reading it because it's just law for my mind. Not like I once again never going to ask about any of it unless something really sticks out.
00:57:47
Speaker
then he'll ask, but it has to be really like, really stick out there. I will say, and you don't have to, but I don't care if you read it, but you also don't have to. Interesting.
00:58:02
Speaker
So I'm guessing you sent this to Emma as well, presumably. Yeah. Yeah. I might just leave it. Sorry to the others. I'm going to leave it for when they get it. Alex is sharing nothing. He wants his own secrets. So that happened like a few weeks ago.
00:58:31
Speaker
Yes it did.
Key Campaign Events and Character Reactions
00:58:33
Speaker
I'm thinking back the last time we really spoke about Oledor on the podcast and I think the last time we mentioned we spoke about it was the mania when that was happening.
00:58:44
Speaker
The Rat Pack. The campaign was getting kind of intense in some places and it was all goblin stuff and a lot of... So I thought, you know what, why don't I run this fun little excursion to the Rat? And there's a little funny little civil war going on and you all get to be gods and it's funny and it turned into one of the most harrowing arcs in the campaign so far.
00:59:11
Speaker
You happen to pick all of the details that would have, uh, triggered here. Not just here. Yeah. Not just here. Just, yeah. A bunch of half the party triggered immediately. You, you caused him to get healed by Norfolk. You killed him.
00:59:36
Speaker
And you made him walk into a temple that had his life story.
00:59:48
Speaker
I don't think I've ever been in a more serious session, which wasn't meant to be serious. Completely spitballed that session. I went in with no notes because I was like, oh, this must be a gameful little session. And I was like, fuck, I need to make so many notes about this.
01:00:10
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, we flipped it on you. I had to think so hard that session on how I was going to play Dan when everyone was fucking fuming. I was like, everyone's characters are pissed off. Why this mine and Finnan's?
01:00:28
Speaker
What the fuck am I meant to be? You know what, I'll go round offering them cheese. I just did what Dan, I thought Dan would do. And I think it was accurate. I was like, yeah, he'd do something like that. Yeah. I mean, I still don't think Dan actually knows that Astra destroyed her whole temple. He heard it, but he doesn't know he did it. She did it. He went in there. Did he?
01:00:56
Speaker
Yes, he did. Ah, then he does know that. You all went in there and Tyr had to hold Astra back from beating up, uh, Norfolk. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. Okay. So.
01:01:10
Speaker
Dan does know that. Obviously, some of the argument. There's still a few things Dan wasn't, I think, there for. Tyr started a holy war, which was great. I love that I did that. Dan's the god of war in this realm. He had to contribute. That's true. When you guys go back, there will be a schism. I am so excited. The church is fractured. Nice. I was a little worried that it was going to bite me in the butt.
01:01:41
Speaker
There'll be something there. Okay. But I kind of want to ask, because you both knew about the main year long before the others. Yes, we did. Yes. I'm kind of curious to see from both of your perspectives, what you thought, like, what was it like, what plan was formating in your mind before it into that? And then when it actually happened, how that flipped?
01:02:04
Speaker
I think we immediately synced up. We knew exactly what the situation was. We were immediately like, oh, we're gods to these maps. I think the second that you got
01:02:20
Speaker
Well, Gorok the Holy. You said the Holy, and then you said, oh, you guys like the divine. I think that that second, me and Marcus are saying, yeah, fuck it. We're getting free meat. We are there, God. So we're making testaments. Yeah. Yeah. The second I heard it, I was like, yeah, fuck yeah. We're running this world. Yeah. Yeah. I just didn't expect to get teleported there when we died. Yeah.
01:02:49
Speaker
i did yeah i was so i didn't when when you killed us off when like when hot the whole party was dead i was about to die i was like well you're not going to panic at us because obviously this is way too over leveled like yes we had no chance um yeah so i was like obviously you got plans i didn't know it'd be vermania i thought originally one of the gods were gonna intervene um i was wrong
01:03:16
Speaker
But yeah, I didn't think you
Challenges and Character Evolution
01:03:19
Speaker
were going to cut us off. I know it was still slightly traumatic experience. To say the least.
01:03:28
Speaker
I think in a way I had made a mistake in myself in the way I DM'd this arc, in that you guys had breathed through too many of these goblin camps too easily, where two major factions of enemies were collaborating together, and you guys were just at level two, just pew pew pew, just shooting them all down. You made us too good at level two. Yeah, literally. You trained us. This is such an important event for these factions.
01:04:00
Speaker
managing this situation yeah so i had to i had to in a way give you guys a reality check and i'm doing how to be like damn we are really meddling with some serious fucking power here you got revenge for the compelled duel i did get some revenge for the compelled duel yeah which also fucked me yeah yeah you did uh i have a correction on that actually i've realized we've been running it wrong
01:04:30
Speaker
Oh, I read it like a few days ago, actually, compelled duel when somebody casts it. If other people attack that target, it's supposed to end the spell. Other people aren't allowed to attack the target. Oh.
01:04:51
Speaker
which would have made a massive difference in that fight. It would have, yeah. Yeah, wow, okay. That is interesting. I think that's a dumb rule though. I agree. Kambel'dul is fun and it lets you fight things like Slads at level two. I would agree that if it fails the
01:05:13
Speaker
check, it is compelled to duel you until the end of that spell, rather than being ended by someone else attacking it. I mean, I agree with that. So fuck it, let's run it as it is. But like, sometimes getting that DC check is hard in itself, especially this low of a level. Yeah.
01:05:36
Speaker
major point Dan's level three Dan is Dan's level three Dan is the first to hit level three yes he is unexpected surprising motherfucker very unexpected um yeah so i'm gonna read out Dan's stats now
01:05:54
Speaker
It's an interesting way to start. Yeah. I've been waiting for this moment for ages. Over a year. Pretty much. Dan has 34 HP, so it's a bit off. He doesn't get 12, which doesn't make sense to me. I'm pretty sure fighters get a D12 plus constitution, right? Yes. Oh, no, it does make sense in a bind.
01:06:22
Speaker
Right. Anyways. 34 HP. God damn, that's a lot for your level. That's a lot. That plus foreign constitution is amazing. Yeah.
01:06:36
Speaker
But you're going to take the tough feet as well, aren't you? Because you're that little dickhead. Well, I said, I said maybe, maybe not. I kind of hope you do so that I don't have to build as, as much of a tank because we're kind of, we're, we're sharing the role there. I've actually, so I've thrown a few, I don't know if I did it on podcast. I've thrown a few feats that I might take with Dan at you.
01:07:00
Speaker
Couple of sessions ago, sessions episodes ago, yeah you did, you mentioned by a couple I think it's back in December or something now, so a while ago in my mind. So I said tough was a consideration, tavern brawler, definitely on one up there, duel fighting, duel weapon fighting or wielding, whatever it's called, duel weapon wielding I think. But I might not take that anymore because I forgot about my subclass.
01:07:31
Speaker
I don't need to take it. I was thinking great weapon fighting for Dan could be an interesting one. Yes. But Dan might drop weapons soon. Oh my God. Yes. I know. Well, he'll still keep his weapon. He'll stop using it as much. Not that he used it a lot in the first place. So for my subclass,
01:07:55
Speaker
as kind of was described last session, I made it. It's called the Goliath Warrior subclass, right? It's a fine subclass. And it is, I wrote this annoyingly, like a month before Bixby came out, the book, whatever it's called. Is it Bixby or something like that? The giant book that- Yeah, I think it was Bixby. Didn't you have the specific date you wrote the subclass?
01:08:22
Speaker
I do somewhere, it's like June 22nd, I think. Yeah, so I had written it and then like a week or two later, maybe a month, I think Bixby came out with their own giant subclass in which big bros are. Glory of the Giants. That's the one.
Handling Character Death
01:08:42
Speaker
Glory of the Giants, in which it's a barbarian subclass, you get it. And it's all about getting big and fighting when you rage.
01:08:50
Speaker
I was so upset. I was like, okay, you've basically just like being made a class for me. But then I was like, oh, it's kind of different. So I'm just going to stick with it. So pretty much in the subclass, I can make myself bigger for actions. Which I think you guys worked out from how Dan achieved this. Yes.
01:09:13
Speaker
for the big old rolls. I can make myself bigger and I have a strike written down for it. We calculated what the damage would be. I can punch someone when making my hand bigger for 1d10 plus 5 damage immaculate. I can only do it four times per long rest though.
01:09:40
Speaker
So the original subclass, some of the earlier abilities, as we mentioned before, were very overpowered. And then some of the very high level ones were just like, you can climb a bit faster. And it was like, Alex, can you shift that further up? Yeah. So I also get another one. The whole subclass is Bay, I Lordived Goliath.
01:10:06
Speaker
is solely based off Goliath. So the other one I've got is called, what did I call it? Captain of the hunt is Fincai, what I call it, because Goliath's love to hunt. And it's where, and I thought this was really cool that Yuan was like, yeah, we can make this a thing. I have to roll a perception check. If I beat the enemy's armor class, I get 1d6 h damage on my next attack.
01:10:35
Speaker
and i get fired i still need to change it i get three times per short rest um which is cool because it's kind of like um what's the spell hunter's mark uh but it's based off the fact that goliath's heart a lot so if i can perceive their weaknesses
01:10:55
Speaker
I can punch him harder, which is nice. And it's my first bonus action, I get. So I'm going to use it a lot. But yeah, I'm excited to go into combat on Monday, or the Monday after when I'll be going to combat again. Me too. Monday. Yeah. I know why Mike's excited. I'm very excited. You know, I'll say this in front of Alex on the podcast. If you want to have a stat block. Oh.
01:11:25
Speaker
Absolutely. There we go. Absolutely. So it's a thing. I love doing this. It's so much fun. So it's a thing. This is coming out after the session, right? This is coming out tomorrow. Oh my god. You're going to edit this quick. OK. Yeah, I'm going to edit it tomorrow. We'll get it out tomorrow at some point. That's fine.
01:11:53
Speaker
It's definitely a thoracic in the chest. I also have so many conversations to have with people before. Yeah, yeah. Very interesting. Before we fight next session. It's interesting that I think the biggest moment in my campaign so far is going to happen in the last half an hour of our final session before we break for like six to nine months.
01:12:23
Speaker
watching alex for that one it's going to drive you insane i will not talk about it once we're in yours i am fully in your mindset and i will not be thinking about it pain i'm worried that i'm not going to get a lot after it i'm gonna have questions i trust me mike is going to have more questions than you will what i don't want that so
01:12:53
Speaker
I'm gonna be tortured! I can't be annoyed at you making or really leaving on a cliffhanger because at the end of my first talk the exact same is happening.
01:13:06
Speaker
The start of the stories plot hook is happening. Like another major point is happening. Please tell me I'm not the one being tortured in this case, please. Oh, in my one. We'll see. People will be tortured. I don't know. I haven't decided which way I'm going with it. I want it to be me. I want it to be you too.
01:13:35
Speaker
Cool. So I have a question Alex. How are you going to be running character death? I've thought about this a lot because someone will die of this campaign. It's the first thing you have to think, wait, what? What? Someone might die. Like running Dead House episode one. That's a rude guarantee. No, I'm just playing. Someone might die. It depends on the consequences of your actions, obviously.
01:14:03
Speaker
Um, but I feel like if you, if you kill my first character in over two years, I will be so bad. Depends what you do. Depends how bad you fuck with people in it. Um, no, uh, honestly, I think, you know, it would probably be fine, but on the off chance that, uh, you guys have made very bad choices and you've got all you very, very, very unlucky with roles in combat and stuff. Um,
Impact of Death and Resurrection
01:14:35
Speaker
If it's towards the end of my campaign, I'm just like, like within like 10 sessions of me ending it, I'm just going to keep you alive. No point in making new character. Absolutely no point. Um, I'll just be like, Oh, you're still alive. You're just going to be missing the rest of that.
01:14:52
Speaker
Like we had that conversation with Elder Podlast, would there be some kind of narrative consequence then, instead of character death? Yes, there will be a narrative consequence. Like, if you guys died in the last 10 sessions, something would happen that would impact you a lot, but your character, but you wouldn't be dead. For the rest of it, I've... I've thought about it, so...
01:15:21
Speaker
What I'll do is, firstly, we'll stop combat. I feel like we've talked about this before. I'll just make sure everyone's fine. You talked about how you said you did that. Great idea. Because people do invest a lot into their characters. I know I do. If Dan died, I would need like a five minute refresh. I just need to like a refresh. So it's still combat. I would then...
01:15:52
Speaker
And I have thought about the narrative side of a character dying in terms of how combat actually is in D&D. Obviously it's six second turns. Yeah. And it's, but the whole point in turn based combat is because you can't have it happen all at once. Like it would actually happen all at once. So I think then I would go into a way of describing how the character died.
01:16:20
Speaker
and letting them get final words or most like expressions to the other characters and whatnot. Closure. Yeah, like closure. I think then after I would probably get, and this might suck for the person who dies, but I would like to finish the combat because if we ended the session there, we're still gonna have to go into the next session with combat in there.
01:16:48
Speaker
Yeah, and yeah, they can't just bring a new player halfway through into that combat doesn't make sense So i'd probably just get the combats finished. I would then get All of our carrot all of the characters i just ask everyone how they feel as character and as player um Maybe do some stuff get like let them get their closure for the player as their character um
01:17:16
Speaker
Then I'd probably just end the session. Even if it was early, I'd probably just call the session. Because there's the whole point of, A, someone's just going to be sat there, which is mad. And B, there's probably going to be big narrative impacts. So as much as it'd be great if I could figure it all out on the spot, probably can't. So I'd probably call the session.
01:17:44
Speaker
Message that person be like You know take your time making your character if you like want to use a spoof character while you're thinking of one go ahead It's fine by me Use like just make a character a randomizer if and then you can in-depth your other one if you want if you want like take a break off next week session go ahead and
01:18:08
Speaker
you need anything from me let me know and I'm free whenever and when you want to talk about like your character's backstory in law and that's probably hard just do it probably yeah something like that I would like to answer this as well actually too yeah uh so I did I did I mentioned last time I had a character death
01:18:33
Speaker
early in the campaign because my player was very stupid. And I talk about them like this because they're friends, like school friends, like long time friends. And for one, if somebody dies, I'm finishing combat. I'm doing that first. I think what I will do probably
01:19:02
Speaker
is just kind of have their character be hanging on. I think what I would lean on as well. Yeah. And then like everybody can go around, they can do their last words or whatever needed and then die. I'm very, very strict on resurrection because I need the weight of death. I need my players to fear. And
01:19:31
Speaker
I think for the most part, I've only run under rules of reincarnation. So if there's going to be a resurrection, it's also going to be extremely consequential. Now, funny enough. Yeah, I don't have revivify or anything like that. I like that. And I'm stealing it. That's really fun.
01:20:01
Speaker
Yeah, reincarnation makes it so that they have to roll for their race again, which is hilarious. Yeah, that's a good idea. And so they have they have reincarnated one character. It is. And my my players are strange. They love DM NPCs. I can't get them to stop adopting NPCs.
01:20:27
Speaker
They love it. They adopted a goblin in their first session. They kept the goblin throughout most of it. And then the goblin died. The goblin got obliterated, and they went on a quest to revive the goblin. What did it reincarnate as? I rolled a D100. It reincarnated as a goblin.
01:20:54
Speaker
They were crying from that. I just made it so that instead of him being like a really ugly goblin, he was a hot goblin.
Dungeon Master's Perspective on Campaign Management
01:21:09
Speaker
Except the goblin thought that he was really ugly now. He misses his old bald form.
01:21:20
Speaker
But that's the time that I've run it. And that's how I kind of think that I'll keep running it. And then with the process as well, I didn't guarantee a success. I was like, you all have to.
01:21:34
Speaker
I think you've mentioned the sacrificing a memory. I thought you just have to think of like a moment in the session or in the campaign, like a good memory of that character and just think on it. And depending on how I judge that memory to be, I'll give you a bonus to your role to revive them. Interesting. Yeah. OK. Yeah. And I also like I've been thinking about this a lot lately because
01:22:04
Speaker
I recently scared my players because I mentioned to you guys, not in this, but before that they fought a blue dragon, an adult blue dragon, they just beat it. And that was, this arc is like one of the few times that I have stopped fudging rolls. And after they beat the dragon, I told them, I'm finally not scared to kill you guys now.
01:22:34
Speaker
And they hated that comment. Because I've been terrified to kill them because I didn't want to ruin the story, but I'm not scared anymore. I have fudge rolls this arc.
01:22:51
Speaker
going forward I will not be. That's terrifying. So every player had an idea of like baseline what was going on. I think it was important for the characters in this arc to continue it to the end. Absolutely. After this there are going to be implications that every person in the
01:23:16
Speaker
horrific implications yeah rather really bad i mean you know you don't know what's coming there's no stopping it yeah
01:23:25
Speaker
It's really interesting. You guys are the first party to acknowledge there is nothing we can do about this meteor coming, so let us not really worry about it too much. There's just nothing to say about it. It's happening. Every other party have a, oh, maybe we could stop it. And you guys are like, no, it's a, it's a rock of space. Nothing we can do. Absolutely. But yeah, I, um,
01:23:54
Speaker
Fudging rolls, that's going to be a rare occurrence for me now. I agree. I didn't front rolls once in the one shot. You didn't need to fudge rolls. Okay, well, that's fair. And I don't plan on it because
01:24:17
Speaker
unless it's something really insane like unless you guys are all rolling just constant like less than like tens and you can't hit shit and i'm hitting you all the time which is very unlikely because as my roles have shown previously i tend to roll quite bad um dm rolling can be different it's different from your player roles that's true but i don't think i will fudge roles because i want this to be
01:24:48
Speaker
pirate era realistic like people just be dying like if you're pirates you're at sea and you're getting cannon shot at your fucking head you get to land and then you shoot and shit other people's head is going to be like moderately realistic for death um and i enjoy hard games hence my platinum trophy and eldon ring bloodborne and like all the souls games yeah hey it's where it's at so
01:25:13
Speaker
I beat Sekiro this weekend. Nice. This past weekend. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just going to sit here and nod or pretend I know what you're talking about. So yeah, I do. I do enjoy a challenge. Um, and it's nice being the one giving the challenge. So I don't think I would fudge rolls that much. Um, I'm probably more inclined to fudge rolls outside of combat than inside of combat for like role playing. Yeah.
01:25:43
Speaker
Well, you can go. I've only ever fudged in your favour. I've only ever taken things down a level. Me too. Rather than against, I wouldn't, I never fudged against the party. And I think as well, when things have gone to like 2 HP and you guys have rolled like 12 damage, I'm like, it's dead. I'm not going to like... Oh, I do that all the time. It sucks, right? Like I've got two hit points left.
01:26:10
Speaker
And sometimes, I want everyone to have their own little spotlight. I will time it so that one of my players specifically that hasn't gotten anything for a while, you get the spotlight. Tell me how you kill it. Yeah. Yeah. Gotta do that every once in a while. Make them feel special.
01:26:34
Speaker
Yeah, I want everyone to suffer, so... Fair. I have a question. If Dragalara dies, can I come back as an unnamed individual from my backstory? I'm totally fine with people coming back as individuals from their backstory. The one we spoke about earlier.
01:27:03
Speaker
Dragalar's twin sister.
01:27:12
Speaker
I'm very sure. Twin sister? Wow, you will never know Mike. Wagadrara. Apart from that one, I am fine with people coming back as some related to that backstory, because I do understand that people want to finish their backstories, like all stuff related to it. I have someone I could come back with. That's cool. You do?
01:27:41
Speaker
I do. I do. Do you? I do. I can think of a good reason. I would also consider letting you not play your own PC you created, but I think that'd be pretty weird. No, that would be amazing. What do you mean? It'd be weird for me to drop the whole character.
01:28:05
Speaker
It would be weird to transfer the cat girl from you to me. Okay, that's a good point. Yeah, I think that dirty word part, but yeah, I would be like, uh, absolutely fine with that. Um, but yeah, I have just checked. You do have a character that you could, um, I think if we're thinking of the same, I think we are. I hope we are.
01:28:34
Speaker
I can think of a reason. Yeah. Yeah.
01:28:43
Speaker
At an hour and 30 minutes in, I think we'll go to our second segment. Yes. Which is when I find a question. And I still wanted to post it on one of the Facebook groups that I'm in. And it was, I think, a relatively new DM asking a question, since I think we're all, you've run one shot, I've run one shot, I think you've run one shot.
01:29:11
Speaker
Mike, you've run for the purposes of this. You've run one shot. I've run a campaign for a very long... Wait, no, I have. I have run one one-shot. That was the first time I ever DM'd and that's it. Yeah! It doesn't like running modules. So it was homebrewing one-shot and was struggling to get it to be a one-shot.
01:29:38
Speaker
I planned for a one shot and they were asking how do you make sure it is a one shot rather than um good question I don't know it's so difficult right and my immediate reaction was if you you just need to be ready to cut things you need to be brutal with yourself like daddy's irrelevant it's gone we're going to this bit now I was gonna say just kill the players at the end
01:30:04
Speaker
That's what I did. That's what I did.
Excitement for New Characters
01:30:07
Speaker
That's what I did for my first one shot. I used it to introduce the big bad of the campaign. Nice. That's cool. So the term is Alex then? Yeah, well, I will kill everyone off the first one shot. And there will be a big something that happens. You find out. It's like three weeks ago, you guys will survive. I've forgotten about this. I've been excited to play my new fun character. And for the first session, I don't even get to play my fun character.
01:30:35
Speaker
I'm excited for my fun character of that session. Me too. I mean, I don't remember speaking about this at length. I think we've answered the question already because it was just other kill the blows or cut stuff. We'll quickly skip on from that within two minutes. We can come back. We can come back to it. No, it's fine. I mean, we answered the question.
01:31:01
Speaker
We don't know. We're so helpful. It's fun. I commented. I gave her a reply. I'll say on that some people are built for one shots like you'll see in like the tabletop group. Like some people like they'll run like a one shot like weekly and I don't I don't know how they do it.
01:31:22
Speaker
I don't get it. Yeah, true. That's impressive. I will give it. Coming up with a whole new thing every week is crazy. Ask a specialized person for that. Yeah. That's my answer. Don't ask the homebrewing. You come up with entire worlds. What level are we going to that one shot?
Debate on Starting Character Levels
01:31:41
Speaker
One. You guys are cannon fodder. You are cannon fodder. One? Yeah.
01:31:48
Speaker
no mercy no what about some subclasses we need some classes uh i will consider level three but can we not go i don't know like little 10
01:32:05
Speaker
No. You promised as a level 10 one shot. I did. And I have talked about doing another one shot at some point for campaign law building. So that can be your level 10 one shot. Now I need to know, or now I need to think about saving the concept room. I will probably end up saying you guys can do level three. It's not much a big difference. You're all going through that. Yeah, we're going and knowing that. I have to talk it over with Emma now.
01:32:34
Speaker
fully expect um death but you i will say this now i am making sure you're all dying at the same time there will be no dying in combat before we get to the end of the one shot i don't care you're surviving you're all making it to the end okay and then you'll die um okay there is reasons um interesting so you will be
01:33:00
Speaker
For the one shot, yes, that's the only time. Expect the rest of the campaign. Just know I'm not fudging things. Your new green DM. You'll see, sometimes fudging rolls is needed. You're like, fuck, I need this person for this story right now. And I've rolled three natural 20s in a row. That's actually quite an interesting question.
01:33:28
Speaker
level two for a very long time um some might say too long i would say the right amount of time but it's i think it's obviously made you very proficient players and you know how to handle things with very limited resources yes is that terrifying you going in as being your first long-term campaign or do you think you've got an advantage because you know how they how everyone does combat apart from me yeah i'm gonna say no and not to tip my own fucking horn
01:33:59
Speaker
I am providing you way over the top, like way too much in yours. I think I'd be prepared for the shenanigans you lot will pull off in combat. We've been playing long enough at level 2, I think I'll be fine. What I'm not prepared for is...
01:34:17
Speaker
how chaotic you're gonna be outside of combat. Your
Long-term Campaign Dynamics
01:34:21
Speaker
characters are all different to the ones you play in your campaign. So I ain't got a fucking clue what's gonna happen outside of combat. Yeah, that's why I'm not prepared for combat. I'll be fine. I'll be solid. Yeah.
01:34:39
Speaker
I need to spend some time thinking about how I'm going to play my character, because the original content I had for her was very different to what she has now become. Yeah, yeah, definitely. There is a line in my lore, which if you read, Mike, I think you would be... It would raise some eyebrows. Oh, interesting. Some. Mm, interesting. All of the eyebrows would be raised. That's true. It would be a terrible line to read. I need like...
01:35:08
Speaker
I need like a complete gear shift when I switch to yours because I am not used to the positivity that my character will be compared to deer. I think the one shot was that. Oh, it's that kind of tonal shift. It's that kind of tonal shift. It's from tear to damn. That's the exact tone shift that's happening. It is kind of that. It's darkness to sunshine. You get him, Dan?
01:35:37
Speaker
Like a little bit different, but pretty much. What happened? A bit different. We were good, and then we became Dan. We'll see. We'll see how we play. Yeah. Yuan, it seems you're a forever DM. I'm going to impart my advice as a character creator who creates many characters.
Natural Character Development Advice
01:36:03
Speaker
Don't overthink how you're going to play the character.
01:36:08
Speaker
When I made Dan, on Session Zero is when I decided how I was going to play Dan on Session Zero. When I was sat in call with you, when you were asking, oh, what backstory do you want to go with? I hadn't even written anything. I just went, I'm going to do a night. He's going to be happy. And then that's how I played it. I just don't know.
01:36:25
Speaker
As a forever DM that did end up not being a forever DM anymore, I will say that that is true. I had no plan for how I was going to play Tyr. I just had to feel it out.
01:36:40
Speaker
Just don't plan anything. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. I mean, from your backstory, Mike, that's very true. Yeah. From Dan as well, whose goal has changed from being a knight to being a merchant. It's achieved. Dan is officially a merchant. Dan is officially a merchant. Technically. Technically. Yeah, technically. I mean, it's a side hustle. It's a side hustle. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We could take the rewards and run. Easily. No, what?
01:37:08
Speaker
That's a smart idea. We've got the wagon. I bring that up because I won't let us leave. However, if this whole thing were important to me, I would fully encourage just leaving. I don't think Dan personally likes killing things.
01:37:36
Speaker
So for context, I gave them, their parties have been, you've been giving a cast essentially. And in part of this was like, as medieval rules would, the leader of the region was like, please, like, you know, all I ask is that you, you know, swear filthy to me, pay taxes. And then when I ask,
01:37:57
Speaker
support me in war now these motherfuckers not realizing i was giving them a cool thing and being like just give me some kind of narrative thing in reward but now we're not gonna fucking do it not bending our knee to her go fuck yourself we're not doing that and i was like god damn it you asked someone who had already basically sworn fealty to another country or like city yeah
01:38:22
Speaker
You asked Tyr! Astra, and like what, Northine, who I couldn't see doing that because she's a cleric to a church and probably wouldn't swear fealty based on religion, and Finnan, who abandoned her noble lineage, basically. I greatly appreciate Tyr and Astra not needing a reason, you just know. You just know. Swearing fealty?
01:38:49
Speaker
it like that it almost feels like the moment you walk into a glass door and then go oh yeah that's there we were never gonna just go with that it was never gonna happen but yeah i then rehashed it and she's taken back the field teams like just send me men for war that's fine oh and taxes and it's fun i'll i'll say in session you
Mysterious Campaign Development
01:39:10
Speaker
told me in a certain way before and i knew before everyone else that like
01:39:15
Speaker
You basically let me know in game that there's no reason behind the fealty and it doesn't matter at all. Yeah, it is just.
01:39:27
Speaker
And I don't think I mentioned this, but you have the right to now set up your own guild. So it was like, you can form your own guild, recruit new adventurers. I thought you did say that. Yeah. Did I? I run it three times a week. I can't remember who I told what to do with this. Absolutely fair. You told us. You told us. We should really get to thinking about that. Oh.
01:39:48
Speaker
Shit, Wednesday. I'm gonna tell one to just skip this episode for a few weeks. Nice. I just remembered. There is something that has dawned on me, however, which will annoy me more than regardless of how this arc ends. I'm going to have to wait six months before I can establish Dan as a well-known merchant trader and get him employees. Yeah. I'm going to have to wait six months. I think.
01:40:20
Speaker
month time skip I I I'm in two minds about it and I will decide during the course of your camp okay depending on where we end you may we please have the moments after perhaps
01:40:43
Speaker
We will have the moment after in session because there's something I have been writing that I want to narrate to happen. One person in the campaign, a player, is going to get the final word in the campaign. You wouldn't do that to them, surely? That's uncalled for.
01:41:08
Speaker
No, that's B. The player knows. And we discussed it. Oh, I say it's not me. That's a straight answer. Me and Alex have been in many, many calls. We have. Private games. Over the last few days. No, you and would never give me the place of being able to say the last thing. Dan's too unserious to be ending an arc of the campaign.
01:41:38
Speaker
I will say it's the last line of dialogue, not the last line of the campaign. Yeah, yeah, sorry, yeah, last line of dialogue, yeah. I think it's Rosie. I think it's Finan. That's my early prediction. Okay. I think it's Finan. Do they know the line? Is it like scripted? They know the line. Oh wow, okay. Interesting.
01:42:08
Speaker
There are no songs standing in my head because I know nothing about how this is going to end. I think I will take my nose. Yeah, I think I do. I've waited it out, but I think you know. Yeah, I'll leave it at that. Is the line going to be I? I think it'll be a good line and it's going to be epic. It's going to be a great ending.
01:42:37
Speaker
Is it going to be maybe the real Unador was the friends we made along the way? I think that's it. Maybe. The one piece is real. Maybe we revealed that Tyr was never a paladin of Tyr, but a paladin of friendship the entire time. The power of friendship. Damn. Wow, I feel bad for that person
Guessing Subclasses and Motivations
01:43:00
Speaker
because I couldn't live through that hell. I have a question.
01:43:04
Speaker
more distracting questions because we're just so so sidetracked. What do you think my subclass is going to be? Oh, that's fun. That's fun. That's fun. And I'm going to answer interesting. Ah, I see. So the question is, what do you think? Based off the sentences that you gave me, I'm trying to remember that. Okay.
01:43:35
Speaker
going off that law and the knowledge i have the lore that you refuse to give to everyone else if i have to suffer with secrets selfishly it's so incoherent out of context
01:43:51
Speaker
This session is for our this um this podcast episode is for our group We answered a question so skillfully So
01:44:14
Speaker
I'm guessing you're not home bringing a subclass because otherwise you wouldn't have asked. Now, I know what I think you want to go for. Oath of the Crown, Oath of Glory, Oath of the Watchers, don't think you're going for any of those three.
01:44:42
Speaker
because they just don't fit into tier aesthetic. Like Ophawatcher arguably might, but I don't think that's the way you're gonna go with it. Things can change. Things can change, true. I don't think you'll do Ophawredemption. Doesn't seem like it'd fit. Vengeance is a plausible one to me. Vengeance is very plausible. I could see TA's backstory having some sort of revenge put into it.
01:45:17
Speaker
Now Oathbreaker, I don't know how we're gonna like them like this. Tyr does strike me as someone who doesn't believe properly in his God anymore and broke his oath. Interesting. How dare you accuse me of that? Heresy. There's also, I think Oathbreaker has like, Necro damage.
01:45:41
Speaker
in
Funny D&D Horror Story
01:45:42
Speaker
some of its class and that does suit here. Not over the engines. Just not, I don't think that's something you do. Based off how you fight in combat, conquest might work. Not based off backstory though. And on the flip side of Oathbreaker is devotion.
01:46:09
Speaker
And it could just be you're very, very, very devoted to your God. So I'm going to gander at vengeance, devotion, and oath breaker. Of the three, I think you'll like to go for it. Interesting. I will tell you what his oath is going to be. It's obviously the oath of happiness, because he is such a happy soul. Of course. Of course he is. There's a ray of sunlight.
01:46:39
Speaker
For sure. Absolutely. I'm actually, the person I'm most intrigued for their subclass is asterisk because I love monks. And I just want to know what she's interested in. Yes. I'm excited about that too. Yeah. Like I, yeah. Regardless of law. There's a really, Astrid we, I've had a conversation, Astrid about hers. Um, it's very fun. I'm very excited for it. Um, what we have planned is really quite fun. I'm really
01:47:05
Speaker
I'm so excited about Astra stuff. Yeah, Astra stuff's really exciting. You've come up largely organically. Yes. Yeah, it has. And I want to know more. And I will know more. I will figure it out. You'll know more. I'll figure it out before you. You're doing no more than me, damn it. I do, I do. The thing is, take an Ask Astra. Yeah.
01:47:36
Speaker
You probably could. I think Tyr and Astra can ask each other most things and yet they don't. Understandable. Even in the whispers channel. It's making new secrets.
01:48:01
Speaker
yeah right yeah well alex you find the horror story mike you shared with us that you have one that you wanted to yeah not not like uh it's not it's not really i don't know i wouldn't label it as a horror story i just think it's very funny um
Co-DMing Experiences and Challenges
01:48:20
Speaker
And going off of the last time I was here, I'm not telling that story because I decided it's it's it's too spicy. It's it's that one is best for friend groups. I don't want to embarrass anyone. It's it's bad. And I'll leave it at that. OK. Yeah. So this one was
01:48:50
Speaker
So when I started DMing, it was with a part of the group that I actually have now, but only a couple of them. And we co-DMed. So we had our friend that introduced us to D&D, and he was DMing for a while. And then something came up about me being interested, and we were like, oh, well, we can just co-DM the same campaign.
01:49:22
Speaker
Umm... Swapping? Swapping per campaign. This did not last long. It was a horrible idea. I ended up being a DM in a campaign where I had my first character. Yeah, it was a bad idea and I did not do the best DMing that.
01:49:49
Speaker
A good DM now, but it wasn't that. But anyway, we had a strict rule with the rest of our friends. We were all new to D&D for the most part. And that rule was no D&D wiki.
01:50:09
Speaker
No, using that because it has so much stuff that's not in the game and extremely home brewed and incredibly unbalanced. A lot of it broken as fuck. A lot of it is extremely broken, especially the classes. And like for. For like half a year, it was it was fine. We were all learning how
Rotating DMs and World Building
01:50:36
Speaker
to play the game and stuff like that. And then
01:50:38
Speaker
And then slowly they started delving into D&D Wiki and finding like, oh, this is like a ninja from Naruto and I can be that. But my DMs won't let me. So over time, and me and my co-DM, we didn't really know it.
01:51:04
Speaker
But they increasingly got angry that they weren't allowed to use home-brewed classes from D&D Wiki. And I will say, they showed us the classes. They were busted classes. Yeah, they all up. We're so broken. And basically, they all went to each other behind me and my codium's back.
01:51:33
Speaker
And they wrote together a petition and signed it. No way. They officially signed it. And and and they and they sent it to us and they were. And not in a joking way, they were angry. They were serious. They were serious. Wow. And I and I think I was
01:52:03
Speaker
17, maybe 16, maybe 17. So we were young. But I like after that day when I got that, I like posted on Reddit, like, is this the dumbest fucking thing you've ever heard? And everyone was and it seemed like the consensus of the comments was you guys are high schoolers. This is stupid.
01:52:38
Speaker
I think in the UK they'd be like, fuck off mate, I'm using a homebrew class. Yeah, I guess so. There's a zero percent chance the petition would have been formed. It would just be, it would just be, oh, you just go to the session and be like, oh, by the way, this is my subclass, and they'd be like, nah, it's homebrew, it's like, yeah. Is that right? I don't know, I don't see the problem. I just, I just arguably wouldn't assume, yeah.
01:53:07
Speaker
That was so good. Yeah, we got a petition. Before this episode, when I got home from work, I tried to see if I could find it. I couldn't find it. But they had it. They had like four or five signatures. I don't remember how many players it was. But in hindsight, for one, I don't give a fuck if my players use D&D Wiki. I would balance it. At this point, I can balance it. I know that I can. With experience, yeah.
01:53:36
Speaker
yeah uh and then also like that's hilarious i love that they did that that's so funny yeah we were we were in disbelief that that's all behind the scenes we've spoken alex about having a co-dming situation we have i guess in having like
01:54:04
Speaker
rotating
Player Creativity and DM Challenges
01:54:05
Speaker
like not maybe not even like we've briefly we had a conversation about doing it as an actual play but even just as like a just like a a private game having rotating dm having four people build the world together and then just whip it around every 10 sessions or something and just like having one lore document and then each person adding to it and then just flicking it to the next person being like deal with that
01:54:33
Speaker
Yeah, we have, uh, we have thoughts about it. It is interesting. I don't try at some point. I think it'd be nice. I think it sounds interesting. And I am more like intrigued in that as an adult, but like, uh, the, the, me and my co-DM and my co-DM is now, he's now one of my players and he's a great player. Um, but we didn't agree on the direction of the story. Oh, really?
01:55:02
Speaker
Yeah, that's part of that's part of what ended that campaign because I think for the we were going to switch every campaign and after like my campaign, he wanted to do time travel. And I was like, time travel is a story writing nightmare. I do not want to do that. I don't want to ruin my world. I don't want I I said all the time, I don't want weebly wobbly time shit.
01:55:27
Speaker
Yeah, wibbly wobbly timey wimey. Yeah. Hate it. Hate time travel. It's that meme, isn't it, when they do a flat that the DM was doing a flashback and he off-handedly mentioned there was a mountain in this city. And then Napoleon's like, damn, I can't wait to find out what's up with that mountain. And the DM's like, yeah, me too. Yeah, that could have easily happened. Damn.
01:55:57
Speaker
Cool. On to the horror story I found. This was going to be the one I read yesterday, but I'll get a new one for next week, basically. DM wants me to bring more personality into my character than blocks me from doing basic character stuff. That is the title. Interesting. Egg. Yeah.
01:56:22
Speaker
So to start with, I'll be honest, in that most of my characters before this did lack a lot of personality, and both DM and other players had said so. By no means do I actually dislike them. We'll call DM DM. Okay, thanks. And the others aren't important, so we'll just call them players. Anyways, on with the actual story now. I've been with this group well over a year, maybe even two, and for the most part things were fine.
01:56:46
Speaker
Though we all had our moments that we did something others didn't like, mine mostly having bland characters and not taking part in much roleplay in this game. So this time I said fuck it, I'd make a character I wanted them to have some simple flaws such as a gambling addiction and being a hexblood, made in some way by hags and in this case live with them for some time before getting away. As for more positive sides of my character, she liked making potions and healing others.
01:57:14
Speaker
Pretty basic, but I thought it'd be a good start. At first, DM and the others didn't mind it. I even thought they liked it till the problem with the DM started. After I won some gold by gambling, only 15 gold. We mostly just used gold. And even giving some to another party member, I never got to gamble again. Dim would always say, no one is gambling, or I don't really want to do that. So no. OK, so now one of her flaws of having a gambling addiction is gone. I still have the whole Hexblood part, right?
01:57:44
Speaker
DMs said Hags were evil in this world. Nope. Most NPCs players and everything in the rainbow is just perfectly fine trusting this Hexblood they just met. Every single time, not once has anyone remotely disliked her for it despite DMs saying Hags and things like them, aka their actual conjurations like Hexblood,
01:58:03
Speaker
So now both my flaws are done. Gambling is out of the picture and no point in hiding or using my good charisma towards NPCs, because despite most text buds being more on the evil side, everyone just trusts me for no good reason. Now for the good parts. I was meant to be a support at first, though the party didn't need it, so DM let me change to a DPS. That's fine though, I still wanted to help heal with my staff of healing.
01:58:26
Speaker
Nope. Even the slums didn't need me as an NPC that goes around with the party healed them. That's a free word. Even the slums didn't need me as an NPC that goes around with the party healed them all in the slums.
01:58:41
Speaker
NPC doesn't fight, they're important to the story, so they come with us to places. Okay, so no one ever needs me to kill them in any city. So I think, this is very poorly worded, I think an NPC joined their party to help heal things around the city, I'm guessing. And that made their character useless in turn? Is that? I think so, yeah. That's kind of a yeah. Okay. Yeah.
01:59:08
Speaker
But they swapped from a cleric took from a healer to a DPF character. I don't know. There's still more anyways. I was just a bit confused by the wedding. Right. So, where is it.
01:59:24
Speaker
Okay, so no one ever needs me to heal. Maybe I can make affordable medicines or potions on the side, seeing I can make that stuff. Nope. DM got tired of me wanting to make potions to sell for cheaper than normal ones. So what did they do? I need a permit to sell. Said, okay then, I guess I'll use some of my gold to pay the 50 gold tax to get one.
01:59:43
Speaker
yeah then you'd have to go to the guild hall and talk to a lady and do paperwork can you read me yeah so i can go there when the other party members are done doing their stuff around town no that's it told me what i needed and how to get in and said no you can't do that
02:00:00
Speaker
at least i can make the potions for the party save us some gold and spell slots by having potions nope again main city didn't have a herbalist so i couldn't buy herbs i asked dm where i could get some dm as an npc oh i buy mine in the city below here the start city okay cool
02:00:16
Speaker
We'll be going there in a few sessions for a quest, I thought to myself. Not much happened between then, so we're just over to it. We got there and asked the DM, what would each of you like to do? Can I go to the Herbalista and buy Herbs? Oh, I honestly hope you'd forgotten about that. It's close to the monster scaring the people of the town. Right.
02:00:36
Speaker
More sessions of me not doing much because everything I had my character's personality as was blocked as usual but we ended up killing all the monsters. We went back to town to see everything was starting to open back up and I think y'all can tell where I went. DM as NPC. I'll be closing up shop soon for good moving back home. Home is half the content away.
02:00:56
Speaker
I'm sure DM could tell I was getting annoyed at this point and said, DM as NPC, well I have a little left in the back. I buy the 4 potions worth of herbs and now till we basically go halfway across the continent, I'll never get any again. DM basically said, no you can't just go look in the woods for them, they only go around that part of the continent. There was one thing I was able to do, talk to a female NPC and get a dance at a ballroom party as of late.
02:01:22
Speaker
Turns out she was 17 in the game, so out of character DM knew I'd also stop talking to them outside of the dance, because that breaks my moral code in real life. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy the games we have overall. I'm just annoyed about them always complaining that I don't have any character personnel. Yet when I tried everything, that was blocked off. Oh, and I said the other party members weren't too important, but here's the summary of the characteristics they have. Player one, Dark Elf, likes to fight with women. Hunt sponsors for the fun of it.
02:01:51
Speaker
be a prick at times in character. Player two, basically an alcoholic bi-femboy that sleeps with one or two NPCs and his sword up till now came from one of the BBEG's powers of warlock. Just those two
Critique on DM Engagement Strategies
02:02:09
Speaker
players, I guess. Cool, that's it. I have strong opinions. I have strong opinions. But first of all, it feels like the other two characters have zero personality anyway.
02:02:21
Speaker
My personality is flirting with women and fucking things. Yes, they have personality. Yeah. Yeah. I fucking hate that. That's like your number one job is to make sure people have fun. Yes. Like, come on, you're failing at your basic role and your players trying to hand it to you on a play.
02:02:48
Speaker
It almost almost feels like the DM wants this player to quit but absolutely Yeah If not, they're the dumbest fucking game in the world Yes, yeah when I started reading it I was under the assumption that this person was just a very bad player Because like there's all my characters are bland and I don't enjoy more players. Okay, I mean I do have a comment on that but I'll let you finish
02:03:16
Speaker
So I was like, OK, well, they might not be a great player. And then they were like, oh, well, I actually tried this time. So I was like, OK, cool. And the DM just sounded completely worthless. I was like, ah, yeah, I would have left. I would have left. Yeah. So my comment on the, so when I heard that, I might be different in perspective of
02:03:38
Speaker
DM and player. When I hear that, I just think that the DM's not engaging them enough. And not that it can't be a player's fault, but at the same time you have to come to some sort of agreement of what the player's interested in. I have a player who's very
02:03:58
Speaker
I don't want to say removed from the story, but he doesn't engage with the role play anywhere near as much as the other players. He's very quiet and he's like that in real life too. But I cared to know what he's interested in and I put that in the game for him. And so I know that he has an interest in money in the game.
02:04:27
Speaker
So I set him up with temptations from a God that will set him up with greed. And one of my recent favorite moments that has happened in the campaign is that he snuck out while the rest of them were long resting and he sacrificed the entire dragon horde to his God.
02:04:53
Speaker
They don't know yet. If they're going to be there finding out? Next session they will find out, probably. But they might not even know it was him. Well, they will if they watch this. And that is such fascinating roleplay for someone who I think other players would maybe think like, oh, they don't have much personality in the game. But as a DM, you have to figure out
02:05:23
Speaker
What brings that out in them and what they want to do? Yeah. As a DM, listening to that was the gambling thing. There's so much, like, there's so much you can do. There's so much. Their own gambling ring. You could have them go to different town cities and try and run gambling rings to run scams to get gold from people. The potion thing is sick as fuck as well. It is. You can write a plot line around that. Yeah.
02:05:51
Speaker
to go into this cave and get this rare herb absolutely yeah no it's uh the dm was very questionable um yeah no to be fair i don't really think about it from the like a dm perspective straight up from my perspective um and that's understandable by the way yeah yeah yeah yeah like in my thoughts it's
02:06:13
Speaker
I get not wanting to make a play. I get not engaging in role play, because believe it or not, when most people start D&D, they're not into role play. Yeah, that's true. You have to get comfortable. Yeah. But I feel like they said they played a few players that went into it, like that just were bland. And I feel like you can make a bland player and still have some backstory, just like open, leave it like an open book, just be like, oh,
02:06:40
Speaker
they want to do something. You can delve into the backstory as much as you want. I'm just going to write like two sentences that you can work off. Like that's fine.
02:06:52
Speaker
but I feel like just leaving all your characters bland is just a bit, I personally find it a bit annoying, but yeah. Again, I think a DM can change that. I don't wanna say correct it, but if a player comes with a brief backstory and you as a DM then take something from their sort of three or four lines they've written you and implement that into the campaign, you will see so much enjoyment from that player because you have like,
02:07:20
Speaker
it's something that normally they don't expect it because it's not been done for them before because they've given it a brief backstory and then you see they give more and they be like oh i've added this and i've updated this and you get more and more and more from them because they love that again for the endorphin rush of oh that's fucking me that's me i mean that's yeah that's my bit yeah and and not only that but like just asking your your players how their character is feeling
02:07:48
Speaker
Engagement. Free engagement. Communication. Communication. Every time. It's almost like that's the point of the game. Shocking. Talking to each other. That sort of stuff. It's like D&D is you spend four hours talking with your friend. Most people don't do it. Pretty much. Yeah.
02:08:17
Speaker
But yeah, it was an interesting story. Yeah, I don't like that DM. It's my assessment. I don't either. I don't like to say people play D&D wrong. You're playing D&D wrong. But you can say it about people who are saying to people that they're playing D&D wrong because they're essentially saying that to the player by not being interesting enough. That's true, yeah.
02:08:47
Speaker
No pressure to be interesting. Play the game how you want. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Cool. So there's a question I just want to ask you, Mike. Would you ever DM for the Monday group? Like a one shot or something? Would you ever DM for us? This is not like, oh, can you please DM for us? This is just like. Yeah, I know. I know what it is. As your DM, would you DM for us? I would probably. I would consider it.
02:09:17
Speaker
I feel nervous about the thought of it. I've been a player in it for a while now. And I think I have a different DM style from both of you. Alex, you're clearly and inevitably inspired by Yuan, of course. Yeah, I've got some from Yuan. I've definitely got some from Derek, who's been here before my first DM.
02:09:46
Speaker
And what you guys will soon discover, my own source of just pain and suffering. I am sure you're going to have your own unique flavor. But I just I feel like a DM so differently. I don't know. What would you say my style is and then compare it to yours?
02:10:16
Speaker
It's hard to put my finger on it. I'm very technical and visual, I think. I have visuals out the ass for my players, like things to look at. Like I use battle maps and like
02:10:38
Speaker
Even even camping and stuff like that, I have battle maps. I have all of that stuff like done and then. I. I feel like you improv quite a bit, right? Yes, I I improv a lot as well, like outside of the visual preparation, I think that's like where where we align is that like.
02:11:05
Speaker
I just don't see a point in prepping too much for a session. Players are going to derail it. Yeah, it's going to get the plan. Yeah, I write a couple bullet points for a session and prepare the visuals. And I'm like, that's what it's going to be. That's where I'm different. And I think that's where my dyslexia comes in. I will not write anything. I'll take notes during a session of things I need to remember. But I will spend the week thinking of what's going to happen.
02:11:37
Speaker
Okay, me too. I do do that. I am shit at writing notes. I think that maybe you guys are more, I think your guys' worlds are more fleshed out in terms of like specifics, like locations and stuff like that. I don't concern myself with that at all.
02:12:08
Speaker
I hate world building for locations. I am extremely, extremely story based. And I think that that is very much shown in how I play tier. And I construct my entire campaign around my players stories. I really didn't have too much of a plan of my base story. I had a beginning and an end.
02:12:42
Speaker
Sorry, I have one more thing. There's that, and voices. I do do voices for characters. See, I'm gonna do voices. You know
World-Building and Cultural Context
02:12:51
Speaker
I'm gonna do voices.
02:12:53
Speaker
It's too much fun. You got to do voices. Exactly. I'm getting into voices. I'm working on one for my granny. Voices are fantastic. After hearing that, I would have guessed, probably, that you would be into visuals. Because when we've been talking about your character, you've asked me a lot about visual stuff. I think I would have guessed that you'd be into visuals for your campaign. Fair.
02:13:21
Speaker
Voices like I you did do a voice for the one shot. So I don't know if I would guess It's my favorite is doing goblins But I would say so locations wise You've got a very good point here. He runs very in-depth his locations like you've got all the cities. It's impressive. It's genuinely impressive. I
02:13:44
Speaker
All I have, all I'm going to have is the countries in the capital city. That's it. Like if everything else is when you find it, I will think of a name on the spot for that place.
02:13:56
Speaker
Like I know there will be islands somewhere. I know there will be other like villages and cities in those countries. Just when you get there, you get there or think of a name. That's it. Like I'm not going to worry about making like insane maps for with all the cities. Like I don't have the energy. I don't know how you did it. You and I have no energy. I don't know either maps.
02:14:20
Speaker
I have to remember that all I do every day is I sit and I write. I will write 300 words and it can take me four hours because I need to find a reference for every single fucking line that I write in my daily life. So when I get home and I can just write free reign without having to fucking reference, that is the best and most cathartic thing I can do.
02:14:46
Speaker
And that's how I wrote it. It's the location specifically, though. Yes. Like that. That's like your like I like I like writing about gods and characters. I like that like story. But yours is like, oh, that's an you have an interesting niche there. Yeah. But I respect.
02:15:05
Speaker
i like locations i think fun and they make the world they make it feel real to me and then if i have if i have the real base i can build characters that live in that city because i know what that city is yeah give that character a backstory and know what they've come from that's how i build the characters out around it i need that base that rock underneath it i see see my i base characters off not off where they're from but off they're like
02:15:36
Speaker
like we're kind of a little bit a little bit we'll play from where they're from but Most of the time it would just be shit from my head. I'll just make it up on the spot and then be like, oh Because they're this race they're gonna have had interactions with these other races. They're gonna believe in that God They might be from any of these places because of cultural diverse I think The thing I've done a lot of and I really enjoyed doing is the whole cultural diversity shit that I've got written all in my documents
02:16:04
Speaker
all up in that shit. I enjoyed it so much just writing about like cultures, festivals, stuff that goes on in each country, the differences, because it makes it easier for me to make personalities for NPCs. I have to say I did. I really enjoyed guessing what each country's race was going to be. That was a joy of reading through it. I reckon you would have gotten Lytheria as dwarves. I think that would have been an easy one.
02:16:34
Speaker
Yes, yeah. I think, oh, now I've forgotten the rest of the entries. Ethereum.
02:16:42
Speaker
uh you would have gotten i reckon i will hold my head and say i've not read it it's fine well me me and emma are psychotic yes i said to you right earlier that um when i asked for the spout you guys just ran this right away it was great yeah you said that you you manipulated them into reading it yeah basically yeah um
02:17:11
Speaker
but yeah i mean it did mean you guys really straight away it was handy uh but um i could never do the locations like you and i just i can't i can't put my brain into stuff like that so it's just too much yeah it's just yeah but i will absolutely put a lot of i do agree on the god's part
02:17:30
Speaker
you can't really do it for my campaign because those gods do exist like in they have existed but on the the lesser known ones i'm allowed to work on a bit more so which is nice um but yeah culture is definitely my thing that i'm going well that from you i'm going to be looking forward to reading because the content you're on now areon is a cultural mixing pot because it's been united for like thousands of years the other continent um vendron
02:18:01
Speaker
I've got two V's and I constantly mix them up. It's five cities that are separated pretty drastically by just the terrain. So I'm going to be looking at your cultural thing and see how I can build that into my writing. I'm very much excited.
Collaborative Storytelling Potential
02:18:18
Speaker
That's cool. Yeah, I think the way I thought of going about it.
02:18:24
Speaker
Unsurprisingly, I don't write a lot of things down. So the way I thought of it was just let's search up the God that I want to associate with this place. Let's think about how I think they would have a culture like how their lives would have been lived if only that God existed in ancient Greece.
02:18:48
Speaker
Let's think about what they're the gods of and then let's look at the race and decide how the race acts. And then I'm just going to throw it into a pot and just write whatever comes out my fucking brain and just put it on the sheet. And that's how I decided for each of the separate cultures. But like, for instance, like my, the main country, Olympia is basically the same as everyone, right? Like.
02:19:12
Speaker
It's incredibly culturally diverse. I've stated in it that they worship all 12 gods. As much as Zeus is the patron god of that country, it's very culturally diverse. It just depends on your own things. Marist Polis is not culturally diverse because it's the country that sports Aries and they just like beefing people all the time.
02:19:33
Speaker
um they're all savages they were savages for ages recently they've had their society come to check because of democracy but otherwise that's the leonins right so that's the leonins
02:19:47
Speaker
That's the Leonins, yeah. I've gone for very obscure races. There's one country of centaurs and savers, which works great because that is literally Greek mythology. I've got the Leonins, Harringons, which I'm so happy I have as a race. I love Harringons.
02:20:05
Speaker
Yeah, elves, dwarves. Recently I was talking to you, I chose Eladrin for the new country I'm writing, which is Aphrodite's one, because Eladrin are cool. And I have a rough idea on the remaining countries.
02:20:24
Speaker
I think what's going to confuse people, maybe, is that Hades doesn't have a country, to your knowledge, and he just won't. To your knowledge. Yeah, he won't, to your knowledge. Interesting. He's not a god of Olympus, right? He's not one of 12 gods of Olympus.
02:20:39
Speaker
So, yeah, Hades had a team thing country somewhere. He has a something somewhere, maybe. No, people are bark. I was going to exactly through the park. Please make Hades have the other known country. Please make them know. Please make them know. I was going to write in Hades impacts on culture under his Hades segment. So you guys will find that right. No, no. Hephaestus is the wolves. More accurate.
02:21:07
Speaker
Oh, I thought because the members of Tinkerus, I would have said Hephaestus. I guess, but Hepha- like dwarves also into like forging and they live in mountains. That's true, that's true. Volcanoes, and Hephaestus is the god of volcanoes, so. True. We'll say after all of this, we complete each other. We're good to collaborate. Ian can write the countries, Alex can write the cultures, and I can write the legends. Yeah,
Humorous Real-Life D&D Interaction
02:21:34
Speaker
we can make a
02:21:35
Speaker
together we could we actually could yeah yeah i reckon yeah i do yeah let's do it guys yeah yeah i'll write a novel it would be so long it's like 400 it would be so fucking long although i will say you said that you're not much of a world builder that kind of surprises me like
02:21:59
Speaker
Oh, well, I am I am a world builder. I just like countries. Yes. Yeah. That's my issue. It's just complex, isn't it? It's just too much. It's a lot of work. Yeah. I'd rather just get to the story. That's fair. That's understandable. It's a story building game. Yeah. Yes. That's true. Yeah.
02:22:30
Speaker
I just flashed back to a horrible memory. I was about to say, you got it now. So I'm, I would say a very expressive person with my face. I struggled to hide. Like my, I went to a conference to do with like animals a few weeks ago. And my supervisor took a picture of me and was like, you need to control your face because I know you didn't agree with that guy, but you look like you didn't agree with him. That's not a good thing to do at conferences.
02:22:58
Speaker
Um, so I went on a first date like a couple of months ago and I was talking about D&D with her and she was like, oh, that's where you were going around playing goblin to go I'm a goblin and she's that voice and I went And I think it horrified her to such a degree She barely spoke for the next 20 minutes because I think I had such a horrible reaction It was in water stones as well and people turned and looked and I was like fuck me
02:23:27
Speaker
Ah, that's a good story. That's premium content.
02:23:42
Speaker
Don't get me wrong, I've had people who have had said stupid things when I told them I played D&D. She meant it sincerely. She was being sincere that she wanted to play. It was the perception of it. Absolutely. One
Cultural Differences in Humor
02:23:57
Speaker
of my friends when I told him went,
02:23:59
Speaker
so what dragons did you kill this time it's like you know no i know it's called dungeons and dragons it's not literal it's not literally just dungeons oh come on there are so many dragons in my campaign we've heard of one we've heard of one and we've seen a skeleton for one and that's it and a half dragon yeah
02:24:27
Speaker
I've had some interesting comments about it before. I've just gone, okay. I'll just usually just leave it blank and just go, yeah, sure. If that's why you know it, that's how you know it. I'm just gonna leave it in that. I'm not gonna bother explaining. There's a lot more to it. Yeah, that's how I play it. I think we asked this last time, but it's just popped into my head again.
02:24:51
Speaker
You've obviously, everyone can hear, you're American. We've mentioned you're American. You came to university here. So you've had experience playing both in the US and in the UK. Yes, I have. How do you see the cultural view of it? That's a good question. Getting me asked this last time, but I don't remember your answer. I don't know. I think you asked another American. I don't think you did ask me that.
02:25:19
Speaker
Maybe you did, I don't know. Memories poop. Well, now I'm going to be worried if my answer is not the same if I did do this last time. I don't think I see too much of a difference. I think that differences that I see is
02:25:45
Speaker
mostly just between groups, as far as I can tell. Because I just knew that it would be different. I'm trying to think of exact differences between our groups. I think that mine is... No, they're both chaotic. It's like they're both, we're both chaotic in different ways.
02:26:16
Speaker
And the best way, and I don't know how to explain it, I do think our group is smarter than my group.
02:26:24
Speaker
I'm willing to, uh, yeah, another problem is I'm willing to just fully insult my group because I'm just too comfortable. We'll throw them under the bus. They are very stupid players. Uh, I have tried to give them puzzles. Uh, they, I've given them puzzles for five year olds. They can't do puzzles. I don't give them puzzles anymore.
02:26:49
Speaker
They can't figure it out. And they're smart people outside of D&D, but once they get into their character, they just lose all brain chemistry. I would have raised a guess that we would have been more chaotic in the conniving way, and they would have been more chaotic in the obvious way. They choose obvious chaoticism.
02:27:14
Speaker
I think that's it. I think that's an accurate. Yeah. Yeah. That's just like straight off American vs. English College because we're really sarcastic and Americans aren't. That's just straight off just. I don't agree with that. You think? I think that that is a false stereotype. I think that British people think that Americans don't understand sarcasm because they answer in sarcasm back.
02:27:40
Speaker
Oh. So that's been my entire experience here is people telling me like. Oh, I was being sarcastic and I was like, yeah, I'm aware. My brother growing up purely spoken sarcasm. I was like a British press American sarcasm because I do know Americans are sarcastic, but I always thought they are more sarcastic in the
02:28:10
Speaker
Oh, you're stupid kind of way. And we're more sarcastic in there. Oh.
02:28:17
Speaker
Haha, you said something. Well, one thing I'll say is I do think that there's a difference in tone. You guys are a lot better at deadpan. I think that that can make it a bit harder to read, but I still think that I catch the sarcasm, I think almost every time, but it's the delivery.
02:28:44
Speaker
It could be quite cutting as well. Yes. Oh, it hurts sometimes. I think that's the difference. Yeah, it cuts deep sometimes. I can see that, definitely. But I find it flattering sometimes. Like when someone's hard casting to you because they're insulting you, it's like, cool. Yeah, you just didn't say outright. When I go see my, when I have family from that English, they will just say things outright.
02:29:12
Speaker
English people don't really... English people don't... English people don't just say what they think. They do it in a way that either sounds nice or they just won't say it. When I have family, they just tell me things. Like, they just go up to me like, ah, you've got on big, ah, you've put on weight. Like, to my face. It's like, thanks.
02:29:30
Speaker
yeah thanks i guess okay yeah it's very different my family do that but i think that's that's i don't know i've had conversations with friends from like my friends from singapore and ones from napalm i've had conversations about my family dynamic closer alliance to them like i know my third and fourth cousin on my mum's side where i talk to my english friends and they're like i barely know my first cousin
02:29:58
Speaker
Yeah, I know a lot of my cousins on the Indian side, and I know none of my cousins on the Indian side. From conversations, yeah, I agree. I grew up a lot around my family. I know all of my cousins and stuff. Fair enough, yeah.
02:30:29
Speaker
We've been running for a while
02:30:34
Speaker
I think we've said relatively on topic the entire time. Yeah, this is a mega special for Monday group is what I was saying. You've got like two and a half hours to spare. Listen to this, because you'll learn a lot. You'll learn nothing at the same time. It's very true. Get you back on in a couple of weeks and we are finished with our new arc. Yes. A full, all-adore debrief with everyone.
02:31:03
Speaker
sounds good because i know rosie's a bit busy right now being on the other side of the world yes very very rudely my my ass yeah so thank you very much for coming mike it's been great yes thank you prompt you episode um yeah thank you for for listening we're on spotify amazon i don't are we on amazon i think we're on amazon do podcasts we're on all of them yeah google spotify
02:31:34
Speaker
No sponsor for me to ruin this time. We have built-in ads this time.
02:31:44
Speaker
They just appear at some point. I will not call them a coward. I think that's still in there. I'm not sure I cut that out. No. No, I said they're not. They're very much not. They're good people. They don't sponsor us anymore. The code still works if you do want 20% off. We're not saying the company name because we're not incentivized to say it.
02:32:09
Speaker
Thank you very much for listening and we'll see you next week when we actually have a, not an actual guest, that seems rude. But we have to. I'm going to just be the hang out back up.
02:32:28
Speaker
that feels like that feels like an appropriate role yeah i'm going with that well thank you very much for listening