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With J John
85 Plays2 years ago
Pray. Care. Share. Such a simple approach, but one that J. John has been employing for over four decades of ministry. He shares with us about how he first became a Christian at college, and how he carries his passion and enthusiasm for the gospel with him today. Listen now for more memorable insights and encouragement for you to pray, care and share!
J. John (Revd Canon) has been an evangelist for four decades. He has spoken in towns, cities and universities in 69 countries. A minister, speaker, broadcaster and writer, J. John communicates the Christian faith in a practical way. He has his own weekly TV programme, which is broadcast globally, and a number of podcasts. He has written several books across a range of subjects including the ‘Theology for Little People’ series to help children understand biblical truth. He lives in Chorleywood with his wife Killy.
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Transcript
Introduction of Host and Guest
00:00:09
Speaker
Well, hello and welcome to another exciting edition of Pep Talk, the persuasive evangelism podcast. I'm Andy Bannister from Solas. I am down a co-presenter. My partner in crime, Christy Mayer, is off doing something super exciting with Anglican somewhere, I think. But I do have an amazing guest for us all this week.
Journey to Evangelism
00:00:27
Speaker
We are joined by potentially a man who needs no introduction, joined by Jay John. Jay John, welcome to Pep Talk. Andy, thank you. Great to join you.
00:00:38
Speaker
and great to talk about something that's right up my lane.
00:00:43
Speaker
Yeah, because we're going to talk about evangelism. And one of the things we're chatting about before I hit record, you've been in ministry for a long time. I've been in ministry for 25 years. That's still a relatively long time. A lot of people who listen to this podcast, they're not in ministry. They're Christians in the workplace. They're Christians in full-time jobs, students, and so forth. Sometimes people might look at you, John, and say, well, it's easy for you to do evangelism because you do it all the time.
00:01:12
Speaker
How did you get started? Because you haven't always done this. You obviously got into this far far pathway. What was the way that you got into talking about Jesus? I would say professionally, but all the time. And then we'll talk about maybe some ways that we can excite and enthuse and equip those. You might be a bit nervous
Encouraging New Christians: When to Share Faith
00:01:29
Speaker
about sharing their faith. How did you get onto this journey?
00:01:32
Speaker
Well, I wasn't brought up as a Christian and I was a student in London. I met a Christian and over a period of my first year at college, he introduced me to Christ. And I said at my baptism that my friend Andy built a bridge from him to me and Christ Jesus walked over it. So in many ways,
00:01:58
Speaker
me coming to Christ was modelled by a guy called Andy Conomides, which inspired me the day after I received Christ. I was walking to college, where I lived, where I went to college was about a mile. I walked and I saw a homeless man.
00:02:18
Speaker
And I said to him, have you had breakfast? He said, no. I said, would you like breakfast? He says, I'd love breakfast. So I took him for breakfast. And I even surprised myself that I even did that because that's the first time I ever did it. And I said, well, where do you hang out? He goes, well, you know where you met me. That's where I hang out. And I said, no, no, no. Where do you normally hang out? He goes, you know where you met me. That's where I hang out. And I thought, this is amazing. Well, ridiculous and amazing.
00:02:48
Speaker
That Monday to Friday, September, October, November, December, January, February, I had walked past him and I never saw him. And my first day as a Christian, I'm seeing homeless people.
00:02:59
Speaker
So that was my first kind of encounter of that. I then went to college. I told Andy I'd received Christ. I went to my lecture. I sat next to my friend Richard Gamble and I told him about Christ and I gave him the booklet that Andy had given to me called Journey into Life and he received Christ. And then Richard Gamble
00:03:22
Speaker
Andy and I went to set up the Christian Union because there wasn't one. Andy became the president. Richard became the treasurer. I became the secretary. That was my introduction. What I love about that story, J. John, is that you're right from the word go. As you say, you were getting involved in sort of sharing your faith with those around you. It makes me wonder whether, you know, for those of us involved in kind of church leadership, you know, if someone comes to faith through, you know, the Alpha Course or Christianity Explorer of a pathway
Intentional Witnessing: Pray, Care, Share
00:03:51
Speaker
God uses,
00:03:51
Speaker
whether it's crucial that like right away we're thinking about helping people understand because that how to do that because that energy that you have when you're a first christian i mean you know just falling freshly in love with jesus you're bubbling up with excitement maybe maybe we sort of have this idea as churches that we need to wait for people to be ready to share their faith rather than get at it straight away right
00:04:11
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think, interesting, again, what was modeled for me, Andy said, now that you've received Christ, what you need to do, you need to go to Bible study on a Wednesday night. And I said, oh, okay. And then he said, on Saturdays, we go and do street evangelism.
00:04:28
Speaker
And I was like, what is that? He says, don't worry, I'll take you out this Saturday, but we'll do it every Saturday. And then on Sundays, we go to church, and then we go to youth fellowship. So it was like what he said, that's what you do. And I thought, oh, okay, that's what Christians do. And I think today, Andy, our expectation of new followers of Christ is very limited
00:04:55
Speaker
and we're not encouraging people and stretching people and motivating people. So in many ways, yes, I became an intentional practitioner of sharing my faith from the day I received Christ.
00:05:10
Speaker
Yeah, I think you're right. We do tend to wait too long. And I think when someone just becomes a Christian, immediately that circle of friends that they're in, hopefully God willing is going to see a difference right away in the story to be told. But okay, for people who've been Christians longer,
Personal Stories of Intentional Evangelism
00:05:25
Speaker
so if someone's listening to this, they're like, well, I became a Christian 20 years ago.
00:05:28
Speaker
And I confess that I've sat a bit on the back foot and perhaps haven't been as public in my faith as I might. How do you get started in that? Someone who's listening to this who wishes they had perhaps got involved in evangelism earlier but hasn't. What's a good starting place? Where does somebody begin? Well, look.
00:05:47
Speaker
Now, I remember the day I received Christ. It was the 9th of February, 1975, 10 o'clock. Now, many people, many listeners now might be saying, well, oh, J. John, I don't have a date. I don't remember a date.
00:06:01
Speaker
Okay, don't worry about that. I can't remember the day I was born, but I was because there seems to be evidence to suggest it. So in other words, the point I'm making there, Andy, is, is there any evidence to suggest that you are actually a Christian? Yeah, and there is. And having pondered this,
00:06:24
Speaker
read, reflected, lectured on it for 40 years, I honestly have concluded that all we need to do is to become far more intentional in doing three things. One, in praying. Two, in caring. Three, in sharing. So, this morning, I'll tell you my routine, Andy. The alarm bell goes 5.58. We listen on Radio 4, listen to tweet for the day, listen to the news headlines,
00:06:54
Speaker
then my wife and I, we pray for each other, we pray for our family, we pray for our team, we pray for everyone we know who's sick, and then we pray for everyone we know personally who doesn't know the Lord. These are family, neighbors, people that we've interacted with. Currently on our list are 42 people. So we pray for those people every day.
00:07:19
Speaker
And what astonishes me is that so many people today don't do that. And it begins with prayer because when we pray, coincidences happen. I mean, we pray that the Lord will open people's eyes, open the eyes of their hearts, speak to them during the day, speak to them at night in their dreams. We pray that God will give us opportunity and access. Praying leads to caring because people don't care how much we know
00:07:48
Speaker
until they know how much we care. And you've got to express that. Now, of course, you can't help everyone, but you can help someone. And praying leads to caring, and caring leads to sharing. And that's where we share what we know. You know, in a court of law, Andy, you have the witness, and the witness gets up, does not even have to rehearse the script. Just say what you know
00:08:18
Speaker
And then you get the lawyer who gets up and presents the facts in such a convincing manner as to get the jury to make a decision. Now, every Christian is a witness. Every Christian is a witness. So we're either a good witness or we're not. And there are two reasons, Andy, why people are not Christians today. One, they've never met a Christian. Two, they have met a Christian. In other words, you and I can either hinder
00:08:48
Speaker
someone's journey of faith or help them in their journey of faith. Now, everyone's a witness. You're a witness, Andy. I'm a witness. But you and I are also evangelists, so we're like the lawyers who present the facts to get the jury to make a decision. But we've got to cultivate praying, caring, sharing,
00:09:10
Speaker
I think what's so
Breaking Barriers: Jesus and the Samaritan Woman
00:09:11
Speaker
helpful about that, it's fascinating. Yesterday I was recording another podcast interview, would have gone up two weeks before this one with a Christian firefighter who said exactly those three things. It was amazing the stories he shared of how the Lord has used that. So we keep coming back to this.
00:09:26
Speaker
John, which is, I think, fascinating. Listen, I wonder... Can I pick up on something, Andy? Can we do a very quick Bible study to illustrate that? Let's do it. If we look at Jesus in John chapter 4, okay, Jesus is at one place and he wants to go to another place. Now, every other Jew that wanted to make that journey would have walked around Samaria.
00:09:50
Speaker
and Jesus didn't walk around Samaria. You see, they walked around Samaria because Jews and Samaritans hated each other. So the first thing you read in John four is that Jesus broke long standing traditions. Now, sometimes I'm not anti-traditions.
00:10:05
Speaker
but sometimes our traditions and our practices aren't helping, they're hindering. Okay, he goes into Samara, he sits by while a woman comes. Okay, what was the difference between the woman and Jesus? She's living in adultery, he's the high priest, so we have a moral barrier. She's a woman
00:10:26
Speaker
and he's a man, we have a social barrier. She's a Samaritan, he's Jewish, we have a racial barrier. She's a Samaritan, he's Jewish, we have a religious barrier. Four barriers, moral, social, racial, religious. How does Jesus break down the barriers? He focuses
Applying Jesus' Evangelism Today
00:10:46
Speaker
on what they have in common. What do they have in common? H2O.
00:10:51
Speaker
She wants water. He wants water. That's how they begin the conversation. They talk about water. He then of course says, I know about another type of water that when you drink this water, you won't be thirsty. And he speaks into her life.
00:11:10
Speaker
This is fascinating. She addresses Jesus on four occasions. The first occasion, she calls him a Jew, but a bit derogatory, kind of Jew. The second time she speaks to him, she says, sir. The third time she speaks to him, she says, prophet.
00:11:32
Speaker
The fourth time she speaks to him, she says, Messiah. So in the conversation, can you see what had happened in her mind and in her thinking? And then she drops apart, goes and gets her neighbors. That's how the Samaritan revival took place. Jesus went out of his way, spoke to one woman.
00:11:52
Speaker
That's fascinating. So let's continue with that theme, Jadron. How might that work today? Somebody listening to that thinking, okay, that's great. But with my circle of friends, my neighbors, my colleagues, the folks I play soccer with on a Friday night, how does that begin to unpack in how we relate to the non-Christians that God has brought across that path? Obviously it begins with praying, but are there some next steps that you'd recommend that people might think about?
00:12:18
Speaker
It's an intentionality. So you've got to be intentional in saying, yes, I'm going to be intentional in praying and in caring and in sharing. So praying daily. Secondly, what way could you help? Right now, Kylie and I, Kylie's my wife, our favorite little restaurant is in a little village not far from here. And
00:12:41
Speaker
you know, a day off or something and we'll go and have lunch. Okay, we decided one day off to go and have lunch and we walked into the restaurant and the guy who owns the restaurant, who's also the chef, he comes out. He goes, I was so happy to see that you two were booked in here today because, quote, when you walk into my restaurant, you bring in an aura.
00:13:09
Speaker
Now, isn't that an interesting choice of words? Now, of course, not a Christian, not a Christian. He didn't say, oh, you bring in the aroma of Christ. And I said to him, well, actually, Laurie, every time we come to your restaurant, we always pray for you and your wife, and we always pray for your restaurant.
00:13:28
Speaker
And you could tell he was moved. Anyway, we sat down, we're having lunch, and I said to Kili, why don't we invite him and his wife to come for Sunday lunch? So I said to the waitress, oh, when the chef's got a few minutes, can you send him over? He comes over, and I say to him, hey, Laurie, would you and your wife like to come for Sunday lunch? And he started to cry.
00:13:53
Speaker
He said, in all the years that we've ran this restaurant, no one has ever invited us for lunch. So they come for lunch. And he's crying, he's crying. They come for lunch. And again, conversation, conversation, we're praying, we're caring, we have conversation. And they're like, you've got to come, you've got to come to our home for lunch. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, you don't have to reciprocate. And he's like, no, no, no, we really like you.
00:14:22
Speaker
Right? And we went there. Anyways, subsequently, we've been encouraging them, helping them on their journey of faith. They are on our list that we're praying for. What we need to do is as we go out, whether it's a colleague, whether it's a neighbor, whether it's a relative,
00:14:45
Speaker
whether it's someone we just interact with in our Jerusalem. When you're expectant and intentional, these opportunities all open up.
00:14:57
Speaker
I went to get my hair done and the lady cutting my hair, I noticed her keys by the mirror and on her key ring, she had a rabbit's foot. And all I said was, Mary, why have you got a rabbit's foot on your key ring? Oh, she said, that's to bring me good luck. I said, Mary,
Prayer and Receptivity in Evangelism
00:15:17
Speaker
the rabbit wasn't lucky. How can an unlucky rabbit bring you any luck?
00:15:24
Speaker
She bent down, took the rabbit's foot off the key ring and threw it in the dustbin. The next 20 minutes, we talk about superstition. And then I said, look, Mary, my wife and I, we run a group in our home called Agnostics Anonymous. Would you like to come? Oh, she said, I'd love to come. Can I bring my husband?
00:15:47
Speaker
I said to my cousin, okay, I felt like my cousin who I love very much, it occurred to me that I hadn't told her about my faith. And I rang her up and I said, Nina, I'm ringing up to apologize. She says, apologize for what? I said, Nina, I've never taken the time to share with you about my faith in Christ. So would you forgive me? She said, oh, John, I don't need to forgive you.
00:16:14
Speaker
I said, well, I feel sad that I haven't taken the time to do this. Can I meet you for coffee and tell you about my faith in Christ? She said, of course you can. And then met her and led her to Christ.
00:16:29
Speaker
Do you know what I find is interesting that the thread running through this, J. John, right back to your story of how you came to faith in Christ is noticing those around you. You notice the homeless guy on the street. And there's something about the Holy Spirit working in us and through the prayer, looking for those opportunities to just notice those.
00:16:48
Speaker
that God's brought across our circle, because often we can go through life so busy that we don't. But look, one thing I wanted to ask you about, one of the things I love about talking to you, yeah. And on that, you're so right with what you just said. And I often say, Andy, you know, people want to go on a missions trip. And I say, yes, go on a missions trip. Walk next door. Yeah.
00:17:09
Speaker
Do you know, for us a big moment in this actually was COVID, when our neighborhood, which is all the neighborhood where people go into the front doors, shut the doors and never come out. Everyone was popping out a bit more. And it was interesting, much easier to sort of notice people who we haven't before. But the question I wanted, I did want to ask you, because we've only got sort of four or five minutes left.
00:17:25
Speaker
is that one of the things I love about watching you have this sort of enthusiastic energy and passion for evangelism comes out. I think there's a sense, there's a nervousness I noticed in some parts of the church today that almost encourages people to think, oh, evangelism is impossible. You know, it was so secular and so challenging. And I think you, like me, would think that's a load of old rubbish.
00:17:46
Speaker
Why are you positive? What gets you excited about evangelism? Every time I talk to you, I catch the excitement too. Why are you excited about evangelism in today's society when I think some parts of the church are a little bit, ugh. Andy, if you don't know the Lord, then you're lost. Now, I'm not, I didn't come up with that phrase. Jesus did. Okay. People are lost.
00:18:13
Speaker
cake. When our first-born son Michael, he was about two and a half, he, Killy and I went to this department store and we were just pottering and we were down in the basement.
00:18:28
Speaker
And Michael was with me and I was looking at a few things. Killy was there. Next moment I looked down, he's not there. It's like a horrible feeling, horrible. And then like Michael, Michael, Michael, Killy starts, Michael, Michael, Michael.
00:18:44
Speaker
And I thought, Kelly, there's no way he could have walked up the stairs to the next floor because he was literally there and then he wasn't there. And there's like, right, OK, I'll run upstairs. So I run upstairs. I'm Michael, Michael, Michael. I'm stopping people. I'm saying, you've seen a little boy. Then I got to the counter.
00:19:03
Speaker
And I say to one of the staff, I said, I've lost my son. I said, do you have one of those Tanoi machines? She said, yes, we do. I said, can I use it? She said, no, you can't. I said to her, give it to me now. And she like stepped back and I jumped over the counter and I got hold of the Tanoi. And I said, all shoppers, please stop shopping. A little boy is lost.
00:19:31
Speaker
And I noticed that there were people who weren't stopping, who weren't listening. I said, excuse me, this is an emergency. And there's a little boy, he's lost, he's got a blue jacket. Please look around for this little boy. I couldn't care less what people thought of me. Why would I worry that people would think, who's that stupid man? People are lost.
00:20:02
Speaker
So what can I do to help them in their journey of faith? Andy, I think people are receptive. I think they are responsive. I think people are eager to talk. I frequently offer to pray for people who are not Christians. Oh, I've been doing this for 42 years. I've never had anyone refuse.
00:20:27
Speaker
Yeah, I think I know. I mean, I say to people, people might be anxious and they know I'm religious. They may not know what that means, but I'll say, would you like me to pray?
00:20:41
Speaker
And they would you, would you? And I said, of course I'll pray. And of course I'm sensible and I'm wise. And that's the whole thing of the Peter encouragement. Always be prepared to give an answer. And of course do this with gentleness and respect. And maybe that's a link in the chain.
00:21:00
Speaker
I think you're right. And of course it also connects into the other great passage, Colossians 4, you know, be wise in the way that you act towards outsiders, make the most of every opportunity. And I think what I like about this conversation, you just really encourage us to be praying for those opportunities. I love that image of you and Kylie first thing in the morning, just praying through those 42 names, expectantly. And the other thing I like about that, John, is it takes the pressure off ours. I think if we think we have to create the evangelism opportunities, right? It's soul destroying.
00:21:29
Speaker
if we keep bringing them before the Lord and let him create them. Yes and
Persistence in Evangelism: Christine Kane's Story
00:21:33
Speaker
I think that's the point Pandy, the point is this we're praying and wherever we go we're carrying the presence of Christ and Lord you know
00:21:42
Speaker
We're expecting opportunities. We're expecting divine appointments. I spoke at one meeting in Sydney in Australia and I stepped off the platform and somebody was talking to me and this girl interrupted us quite rudely and she says, I hated what you said. And I said, oh, I'm very sorry. She says, I can tell you this, church ruins people's lives.
00:22:09
Speaker
I said, I'm very sorry that you feel that. I said, have you got a few minutes? And she's like, why? I said, if you've got a few minutes, could we just go and have a coffee? So we just literally walked 100 yards on the campus cafeteria and we sit and have a coffee. I said, why? Why are you so angry? And all this stuff comes out.
00:22:31
Speaker
And I didn't want to get too defensive. I listened and I apologized. And I said, but look, have there been mistakes made in the name of medicine? And she said, yes. I said, huge mistakes. Pharmaceutical companies have made mistakes. The lidomide was a mistake. Surgeons make mistakes.
00:22:51
Speaker
and people die. And I said, but we don't throw out the whole of medicine because of some mistakes. Anyway, I was just being gentle. And I said, look, that it was a Monday. Come and hear me Tuesday, we'll have a coffee. She came, we went for coffee. Come and hear me Wednesday, we'll go for coffee. She did, we went. Thursday, come and hear me, we'll go for coffee. She did. I said, one more meeting. Friday, come and hear me, we'll go for coffee. Friday, ransom tilled, restored, forgiven. That girl's name, Christine Kane.
00:23:20
Speaker
If your listeners don't know who Christine Kane is, she's probably one of the most dynamic women evangelists in the world today. Five coffees. Five
Closing Prayer for Empowerment
00:23:33
Speaker
coffees. I love it. Well, look, we've reached the top of the show, but if I could be cheeky then with a request, prayer has run through this. JoJo, would you just pray for those listening that the Lord would encourage them and use them and then we'll call it a day.
00:23:50
Speaker
Absolutely. Lord, thank you for Andy. Thank you for this program. Thank you for everyone who tunes in and everyone that's listened. And I just want to pray, first of all, that the Lord will lift out from you any fear, any disappointment. And I pray, Lord, that you will empower everyone afresh with your Holy Spirit
00:24:22
Speaker
a fresh empowering of your peace and your presence and your power. I pray Lord God that you will help us all to be intentional and expectant. And as we seek to be people who pray, care and share, you will use our efforts and the breadcrumbs that we offer and so you will multiply.
00:24:52
Speaker
And we pray and we ask all these things in the name of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Amen. Amen. Well, J. John, once again, thanks for joining us. And to all of you listening at home, thank you for joining us too. And you can catch us and hopefully with my co-presenter, Christie, back again in two weeks' time, we'll have another guest and another episode of Hat Talk. Thanks for listening.