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#394 Tracking tool life
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TOPICS:
- Willemin air lines all replaced
- Saunders is using metric hardware
- Microscopes in the shop
- Tracking tool life
- Machining A2
- The ultimate Clamps
- Lapping precision holes
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Episode Confusion
00:00:01
johngrimsmo
Good morning and welcome to the business of machining, episode 394, I Although my note, is it five?
00:00:06
John S
Five. It's five.
00:00:09
johngrimsmo
I've been, re the last episode was named 393, so maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, 390 something, we'll figure it out.
Hosts and Podcast Focus
00:00:17
johngrimsmo
ah My name is John Grimsmell.
00:00:19
John S
I think my name is John Saunders.
00:00:21
johngrimsmo
Yeah, exactly. This is the podcast where we talk about manufacturing and machining and toolpaths and end mills and Willamanses and all the good stuff.
00:00:30
John S
Willamans is, yeah.
00:00:31
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
Workshop Successes and Challenges
00:00:33
johngrimsmo
Um, speaking of which I, I didn't do it. Uh, Angelo and Jeff replaced all the airlines themselves.
00:00:38
John S
Oh, it's done.
00:00:40
johngrimsmo
Uh, they just went ham on it and it works great.
00:00:43
John S
You see, you had mentioned it last week. So im sorry, I know, I know how I can't often remember if I told you about something.
00:00:44
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:00:50
John S
And so I'm, I'm rudely assuming you can't remember, but you stole me that they were doing it one by one, go on fine.
00:00:51
johngrimsmo
Yeah. 100%. Yep.
00:00:58
John S
Had a lot of work ahead of them though.
00:00:59
johngrimsmo
Yeah, exactly.
00:00:59
John S
Sounds like that's.
00:01:01
johngrimsmo
It took a few days of them spending, you know, an hour or two a day, um, kind of working on it. And it's, it's, you saw the old Willyman, like it's oily and chippy and there's chips everywhere.
00:01:11
johngrimsmo
And it's, it's a job for sure.
00:01:14
John S
yeah
00:01:14
johngrimsmo
Um, we're happy to do it. And honestly, I didn't need to involve myself whatsoever.
00:01:17
John S
Yeah.
00:01:19
johngrimsmo
And they did them all. Um, except for the, there's a couple that go all the way through the casting and through the tube and up to the, um, laser tool setter. yeah birdss right And they're like, we replaced it up until where we could stop seeing it. And then we put a connector there and we'll see.
00:01:39
John S
Yeah, right. Those aren't going to throw alarms, though, if it's a little leaky.
00:01:42
johngrimsmo
No, you'd have to remove the bloom to be able to access the airline, which involves a recalibration procedure and stuff. And they were just like, let's cut it there for now.
00:01:54
johngrimsmo
So that's good.
00:01:55
John S
Yeah.
00:01:55
johngrimsmo
Um, and then we turn the air on and there was one leak in the back cabinet. Um, a hose just, just need to be pushed it up more and then you could hear i can feel it and turn the air on and you're like, Hmm, what's that noise?
00:02:03
John S
How'd you find out there was on leak? Oh, okay. Okay. Easy then.
00:02:10
johngrimsmo
Um, you feel for it and you just kind of shove the airline back deeper and it's good and it's been running. It's awesome.
00:02:16
John S
Do you find that that sort of a audible hearing test is difficult in your shop because production
00:02:24
johngrimsmo
Not on that machine. It's pretty ah loud enough to hear it.
00:02:29
John S
Okay, when I come in on the weekends, which I have some for fun, it feels great, frankly, like in a weird way, like I ah just i like enjoy it.
00:02:29
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:02:38
johngrimsmo
Sure. and Me too.
00:02:39
John S
um It's so strange now because you hear nothing else is running. So you hear different machines from the compressors, from the, I'm usually running the horizontal or the VF2 and it's just, it's so different.
00:02:48
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:02:53
John S
And I i don't know that we would hear, we don't have anything that's like, I think like a hearing safety issue level. It's just, you've got, I don't know, somewhere between three and seven machines running all at the same time.
00:03:02
johngrimsmo
Mm hmm.
00:03:03
John S
So a little air bleak out of a quarter inch tube, a good luck.
00:03:03
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:03:09
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it's it's like almost as loud as somebody opening an air gun halfway.
00:03:14
John S
Okay.
00:03:14
johngrimsmo
Like it's it's loud enough.
00:03:14
John S
Yes. Yeah.
00:03:15
johngrimsmo
It's not just it's, you know, it's noticeable.
Measurement Systems in Manufacturing
00:03:20
johngrimsmo
um And same when when the lines kept popping and breaking, and they would just split lengthwise, like a one inch, like you took a razor blade and you just cut a split in it. It was that kind of leak, but it was enough to sound like, like you really hear it. um But now everything's good and sealed up and all the lines are replaced. So I bought 500 feet of six millimeter airline, and we used, I'm guessing 160 feet of it.
00:03:48
John S
Got lots of extra.
00:03:49
johngrimsmo
Yeah, cause you had no idea how much I'm like, well, it's over a hundred. So McMaster sells it by the hundred or by the 500. Um, and I didn't know how much to buy. So now we got lots. So if you need any, let me know.
00:03:59
John S
That's funny.
00:04:00
johngrimsmo
I'll send you.
00:04:00
John S
we We use it for the puck chucks.
00:04:03
johngrimsmo
Six mil or do you go quarter?
00:04:05
John S
I should not answer that question. That's an Alex question.
00:04:08
johngrimsmo
Fair. Probably corner, but.
00:04:09
John S
Yeah, yeah you probably are. Although I will say, John, um everything on all puck chuck masters are all metric, only metric.
00:04:16
johngrimsmo
No way what, what prompted that to choice.
00:04:17
John S
Gen 3 mod vice is all metric.
00:04:20
johngrimsmo
I mean, I'm a metric fan as well.
00:04:21
John S
two Two things. Number one, availability. for So um we the Gen 2 mod vices are kind of what started this.
00:04:26
johngrimsmo
ah
00:04:31
John S
We used 7 16ths by 20 flat head, one inch long cap screws.
00:04:36
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:04:38
John S
And I think I've joked about this on the podcast before, but I think we were probably the largest user of that specific screw in the United States.
00:04:40
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:04:46
John S
We bought a ton. It's so funny. It's like a fine pitch, short, odd thread size screw. like it's it And we would sometimes buy out. um Everybody, like it was crazy. um And so we wanted to get away from that going to an M10 metric screw.
00:05:03
John S
So that's point number one. Point number two, when we sell to other countries, they can always get metric stuff, but it's quite hard for them to get interesting stuff.
00:05:09
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:05:10
John S
And then number three, um for some unknown reason, some doofus, probably im like decided that an Imperial screw should have an 82 degree angle, metrics are 90.
00:05:22
johngrimsmo
Countersink, yeah.
00:05:25
johngrimsmo
Are all Imperials 82 degrees, really?
00:05:27
John S
I'm not going to die on that hill, but I'm pretty sure.
00:05:29
johngrimsmo
Sure, yeah, interesting. Wow.
00:05:31
John S
So it's like, OK, great. Standardizing. Good.
00:05:34
johngrimsmo
So your palettes, fixture plates are are inch threads, right?
00:05:38
John S
Yes.
00:05:40
johngrimsmo
Because you have threaded features in everyone.
00:05:43
John S
Every fixture plate inventory or whatnot is inch. we
00:05:48
johngrimsmo
you're You're pulling a Canada now. You're mixing half and half. I like it.
00:05:53
John S
We make quite a few metric customs.
00:05:55
johngrimsmo
Sure.
00:05:56
John S
um We never... ripped the Band-Aid off on unleashing a full metric fixture plate line.
00:06:04
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:06:05
John S
um We kind of have it ready in the background. And funny enough, i'm I mean, I'm not like oversharing, not that anybody cares, but like, um the bigger reason we aren't doing that is we aren't suited to ship huge quantities internationally.
00:06:21
John S
It's a ton of work for us.
00:06:23
johngrimsmo
Oh, so you don't necessarily want to chase European or international business.
00:06:27
John S
I mean, I do, but we can't. it's like we We would have no problem selling a ton of inch hot or metric horse plates, metric tormach plates, metric brother plates, phenol plates.
00:06:29
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:06:35
John S
I don't care about that. But we do sell a lot of our accessories into Europe and Australia, et cetera. And we we have shipped many fixture plates there, but it is a ton of work to do international freight.
00:06:47
johngrimsmo
Hmm.
00:06:48
John S
And I don't have a way of
00:06:48
johngrimsmo
Like logistical work, not just cost.
International Shipping and Market Competition
00:06:51
John S
everything like logistical work, paperwork, back and forth, scheduling the shipments, ah compliant shipping stuff, risk of damage like it's expensive enough to ship a fixture plate within the US and then something happens ah far worse to do so on a shipment to you know Perth.
00:06:56
johngrimsmo
Really.
00:07:03
johngrimsmo
the
00:07:08
johngrimsmo
And would it go air or would it go boat?
00:07:12
John S
we've To my knowledge, only ever shipped air, um and it's phenomenal.
00:07:15
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:07:17
John S
The times we've done it, it gets there shockingly quickly, and sometimes, um I don't wanna bore everybody, sometimes it's like $1,500 to $2,000 in shipping for air for freight.
00:07:28
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it's not boring, it's shocking.
00:07:30
John S
But sometimes it's like $300. And my understanding is that that's because sometimes we as civilizations send empty planes back to the the far east. um And so it's all spot rates. So we have to call or log on to a special FedEx website where we have international pricing. throughs I think there's two different ones. We have one rate.
00:07:51
John S
in great rates or there's two different programs and you're like checks us like I said a spot bid or there's some term for it we're like right now if I ship this tomorrow there is a spot on a cargo plane that I would be allocated that costs this much money that has to be stackable um it's all these things that like
00:08:09
johngrimsmo
Hmm.
00:08:10
John S
ah We've got so many other things we could do better. And it could be, look, it could be in terms of like oversharing. It could be a real problem for Saunders because if somebody out innovated us and got really good at this product and handling global distribution, I can't, I'm not there yet, but.
00:08:20
johngrimsmo
For sure.
00:08:23
johngrimsmo
Or made it elsewhere, for that matter. um Somebody else that said Saunders has the US market.
00:08:27
John S
Yeah, sure.
00:08:30
johngrimsmo
Let's take the rest of the world kind of thing.
00:08:31
John S
Right. Yeah. Well, I think there's plenty of people that make fixture plates, but, ah um,
00:08:34
johngrimsmo
No, that's, and that's fascinating.
00:08:37
John S
So, because we sell, metric you can go buy a metric mod vice now. um Anyway, that's my, well, we got a, well, quote, unquote off topic there, but, oh yeah, PubChug, M6 hardware, all that stuff, yeah.
00:08:41
johngrimsmo
Yeah. it's good No, No, essentially. Yeah, I love metric hardware, like growing up with Volvo's old cars. um Everything's metric and i never I never got to enjoy Imperial Fasteners.
00:09:01
johngrimsmo
um However, we designed our knives around Imperial hardware.
00:09:06
John S
No, that's hilarious.
00:09:06
johngrimsmo
So the screws are 440 and the pivot is a very fine pinch pitch 664 thread.
00:09:09
John S
Yeah.
00:09:13
johngrimsmo
And I guess that's the only two hardware on it. But yeah, so we make 440 screws. And I don't know if I've ever made a metric fastener, but we've made tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of 440 screws.
00:09:19
John S
That's funny.
00:09:27
johngrimsmo
um
00:09:28
John S
Would you ever like the feel or the next thing would you ever just say we're going, we're going metric now.
00:09:33
johngrimsmo
I haven't thought about it.
00:09:34
John S
Too pregnant on.
00:09:34
johngrimsmo
um Yeah, for other products, maybe. um Yeah, maybe. and Like all this stuff is cross compatible in a way like when we made the Norseman 440 screws, we would make the Rask, same screws, same pivot, just keep it going kind of thing.
00:09:45
John S
Sure. sure
00:09:47
johngrimsmo
But if we came up with something new that was different, that was you know not the same family, then sure, maybe. um All of our pallets and fixtures and hardware used on the machines is metric.
00:10:00
johngrimsmo
um M6 screws to hold all the water jet blanks down. M8, M10 sometimes if you need big stuff. And then, but in Canada, we kind of use both all the time for everything, but I still measure everything an inch because my brain measures an inch, but I like metric fasteners.
00:10:16
John S
Yeah.
00:10:19
John S
Yeah. I'm right there with you.
00:10:20
johngrimsmo
Right.
00:10:21
John S
Was the 10 millimeter socket a joke for everybody in Canada growing up?
00:10:26
johngrimsmo
What about?
00:10:27
John S
Oh, it's like a joke in the States more than like the car guy world of like, Oh, nope.
00:10:30
johngrimsmo
Sure.
00:10:31
John S
10 millimeters lost. No one can find the 10 millimeter.
00:10:33
johngrimsmo
Yes, yeah, absolutely.
00:10:35
John S
Okay.
00:10:36
johngrimsmo
Yeah, especially working on European cars, like, you always need the 10 mil socket.
00:10:37
John S
Got an eight, got a 12. Yeah.
00:10:42
johngrimsmo
What was I gonna say about that? I lost it.
00:10:47
John S
Wilhelmin working
Tool Usability and Efficiency
00:10:49
johngrimsmo
No, it's screws or something, but...
00:10:53
johngrimsmo
i Gone.
00:10:54
John S
Yeah, I Had a small win I should actually I should post this I will post this on Instagram um we have the I Don't know 30 or 80 dollar Cool-a-tron.
00:10:59
johngrimsmo
o Yeah.
00:11:10
John S
I think Amish kind of OG came up with it.
00:11:14
johngrimsmo
The microscope. Okay, yeah.
00:11:16
John S
I um And it used to be used every day. And then it got kind of like unplugged, but still on the table. And I was like, no, I really like this being a tool ready to use. And the problem is that it has two built-in lights, but the lights are on really low quality flex lines that never want to stay pointed at your microscope.
00:11:27
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:11:31
John S
They want to always stay pointed further away.
00:11:32
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:11:34
John S
and the lighting is what makes that work really well.
00:11:37
johngrimsmo
Sure.
00:11:37
John S
And so it'll be far easier to just show a picture on Instagram or something, but I 3D printed a super simple spacer jig and then I remounted the lights on 90 degree plane different and then mounted the microscope further forward.
00:11:51
John S
And it's took it was an it took me 10 minutes to design this little plate um and an hour to print it. And now the microscope is so much more useful
00:12:00
johngrimsmo
So you gave it more depth, more more throat, I guess.
00:12:01
John S
um
00:12:03
johngrimsmo
So hold bigger parts, you mean?
00:12:05
John S
Kind of, yeah, that wasn't even necessarily the point. It just was like to get the lights anchored in a better spot so that their natural resting spot was at the darn focal point of the microscope.
00:12:10
johngrimsmo
Okay. but That is the kind of tool that will either make or break um the the use, like if it's annoying, you're never going to touch it.
00:12:24
johngrimsmo
If it, if it does the job, if it works, if it's easy, if it's always on, if it's always available, if it fits all the parts, like you'll use it all the time.
00:12:24
John S
Yeah.
00:12:31
johngrimsmo
But any little, I've noticed that any little annoyance, it just collects dust.
00:12:31
John S
Yeah.
00:12:37
johngrimsmo
Didn't work.
00:12:39
John S
And it's kind of like a bigger, to get a little like philosophical, it's a little bit of representation as I'm wrapping up the year of my own failure, like do its, I have so much passion and energy for, and a bit, you know, earned a big fat zero.
00:12:53
John S
And the microscope could have been a do its project. I'm like, hey, I want to use this, um spend more time on it, make it a do its, but like, um' I'm sucking at that.
00:13:00
johngrimsmo
Hmm. You just did it. You just took the 10 minutes and did it.
00:13:02
John S
ah Exactly. I just did it.
00:13:04
johngrimsmo
And you've probably done a hundred of those this year without putting it on your do its list and scheduling it for later.
00:13:04
John S
And because it's,
00:13:08
johngrimsmo
You just, you just did it.
00:13:08
John S
Yes.
00:13:10
johngrimsmo
And that's good.
00:13:10
John S
Yeah. And it was not hard. Like I didn't know how I was going to solve it. And then I realized, Oh, just move the lights here. How do I move the lights?
00:13:15
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:13:16
John S
Print a little bracket. If it doesn't work, I don't care. Spend a little, very little time on it. And like, uh, I'm happy with that because part of me thought like, well, let me go. Grimstone's got that beautiful Zeiss or Nikon or something. But I'm like, no, like I think for the fact that we own the $8 microscope, I don't need the $3,000 one.
00:13:30
johngrimsmo
yeah Yeah, it'll do 80% of the job, 100% of the time.
00:13:34
John S
Yeah.
00:13:36
John S
Right.
00:13:37
johngrimsmo
Yup.
00:13:38
John S
which is a segue to why we're using it more, which is A2 tool steel is kicking our tush on tool life, not on machining, it's machine easy, soft, destroying, like like if we used to get ah three hours on a 4 to 140 tool, we're getting 40 minutes.
00:13:49
johngrimsmo
Soft or hard? Really? Oh, wow.
00:14:01
John S
like So let's call it 50 to 70% less tool a life, correct milling.
00:14:01
johngrimsmo
Interesting. Milling it.
00:14:06
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:14:08
John S
so
00:14:08
johngrimsmo
Compared to what?
00:14:10
John S
Well, 41 40, but that's a, it is great.
00:14:11
johngrimsmo
Yeah, 41.40 is such a beautiful steal.
00:14:16
John S
Um,
Machining A2 Steel: Challenges and Solutions
00:14:18
John S
and it's a similar ish hardness that there's different, I've started to get smarter on this. Um, obviously the contents of a two are very different.
00:14:26
johngrimsmo
Yup.
00:14:27
John S
Um, and it's, you know, somebody smart would probably say like, it's not even appropriate to compare them, even though they happen to be somewhat similar. I think it was, yeah, vanadium and higher carbon second.
00:14:36
johngrimsmo
Isn't 40 usually, usually in the, uh, a higher hardness range?
00:14:42
John S
What is?
00:14:42
johngrimsmo
It's 41 40.
00:14:46
John S
Annealed 4140, or like non-prehard 4140 is low 20s, which is pretty much similar to A2.
00:14:50
johngrimsmo
military twenty Okay. Okay. Interesting.
00:14:55
John S
So I don't think we're necessarily using the correct tools, and we probably need to adjust our speeds and feeds, and um that is a lot easier to talk about than do.
00:15:05
John S
I'll say that.
00:15:05
johngrimsmo
Sure, but I mean, cutting a soft steel like 4140 or A2, or like we cut ah our high carbon stainless knife blades when they're soft and they're like 20RC.
00:15:17
johngrimsmo
Maybe we've just developed process and tool life around experience, but we just use pretty much regular end mills, like variable flute helps, 4 flute, 5 flute, stubby as much as possible.
00:15:17
John S
Mhm.
00:15:24
John S
Mhm.
00:15:31
johngrimsmo
And maybe I'm just used to 50 minutes of tool life when you're used to more.
00:15:37
John S
It might only be 50. It's just, I mean, we've run, we've made tens of thousands of parts on our horizontal now in the part.
00:15:40
johngrimsmo
Depends on the tool and the application, right?
00:15:45
John S
So it's puck bases that are A2.
00:15:46
johngrimsmo
OK.
00:15:46
John S
This, this one that happens to be.
00:15:47
johngrimsmo
It's like a four inch by four inch square that's an inch thick.
00:15:51
John S
Yeah, so we're removing a center puck that's about three and a half inches, as well as the outside and opening up a couple holes that have been pre-drilled. So it's it's a it's a five inch square block.
00:16:02
John S
So just we're and we're removing, I'm gonna guess 20%, 30% of the material by weight with that tool pre-drilling.
00:16:02
johngrimsmo
Sure.
00:16:09
John S
So we're not asking anything, ah we're not asking anything abusive of the end mill itself, like the holes are all pre-drilled. So we're not ramping, plunging, but um
00:16:17
johngrimsmo
sure
00:16:19
John S
We're making, I need to start tracking this, that's what I'm going to start doing, but I'm gonna guess we're only getting through four to six parts, whereas that same thing, but yeah, no, the 40140, we would get through gobs more.
00:16:27
johngrimsmo
That's, that's not much.
00:16:31
johngrimsmo
And this is what email.
00:16:34
John S
ah So we've been using, right now, the only tools we've been using are either the Haas tooling one, that we've which I think is YG1, that we've been using on 40140, or we actually have branded YG1.
00:16:41
johngrimsmo
no
00:16:45
John S
um I thought I'd just share a little bit of my my c plan. um And then I but actually would love, if anybody has experience, kind of quote, of a production machining A2 in the soft city, I'd love to hear recommendations.
00:16:57
johngrimsmo
Hmm.
00:16:59
John S
A couple options that already have popped out, which are total no-brainers, well, no-brainers options. I don't think I'm gonna pursue them. One is helical. um One would also be the kinemetal, I think it's their Harvey line.
00:17:12
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I've never tried those.
00:17:12
John S
um But they're both two to three times the price, so that's not something I'll probably pursue for economic reasons. um I need to order the Lakeshore one to try that, because they've got one that's in Metfertool Steels.
00:17:20
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:17:26
John S
Try that one.
00:17:26
johngrimsmo
Yeah, they're four and five flute, variable flute, uh, stub end mills. Oh, I buy them in bulk. Like I use them quite a bit.
00:17:33
John S
Yeah. Yeah. In fact, I'm going to click Buy on that cart when we hang up.
00:17:38
johngrimsmo
Yeah. And then there's solid.
00:17:40
John S
um solid and for the price. like i um I would not, I mean, it's probably an obvious point, I would not spend double the money to get double the life because that's that's a net zero with more risk and cost, so forth.
00:17:43
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Okay. Sure. Yeah. And how is it, is it dying? Is it chipping the edges up top? Is it blowing the corners out?
00:17:59
John S
Great question. That's what's surprising me. We have now blown through six of these tools this week and they all are catastrophically shattering and thus I don't even see the edge.
00:18:05
johngrimsmo
Okay. Like breaking. No way.
00:18:11
John S
Yeah. So I need to, um, I need to stop it.
00:18:14
johngrimsmo
That shouldn't happen like ever, you know?
00:18:17
John S
I know. So maybe something else is going on, but it's not, um, a lot of times it's happening on outside adaptive.
00:18:20
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:18:22
johngrimsmo
That's interesting.
00:18:25
John S
So it's not even likely that it's like a chip buildup issue and inside pocket.
00:18:26
johngrimsmo
Hmm.
00:18:31
John S
Um, the other thing I did that I think is, I think is a little bit, you know, Ooh, I feel like I'm being smart on this was I spent, it takes a few minutes in my opinion to learn it.
00:18:31
johngrimsmo
Interesting.
00:18:41
John S
I'm sure Lawrence has a down pat, but the Sandvik, uh, speeds and feeds stuff, which only works for their tooling. But I thought, okay, I at least want somebody who's super smart in this case, Sandvik, who spends like 10 million a year on material for tool testing, R and D.
00:18:55
John S
And I went in, I picked one of their Plura and Mills for 41 40. And then I did the same. They give you estimated to a life better than anybody else.
00:19:04
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:19:05
John S
And so I wanted to see what do they compare, uh, a two versus four to four. And I, I should look this up before the podcast. It was significantly less like it'll last 30 or 40%.
00:19:14
johngrimsmo
Really?
00:19:17
johngrimsmo
The time like, wow.
00:19:17
John S
It's yeah. In, in a two, which kind of told me, okay, maybe I'm not kind of wrong here.
00:19:22
johngrimsmo
Okay, okay.
00:19:24
John S
um
00:19:25
johngrimsmo
Oh, yeah, I've turned, ah I've turned some A2, I've milled some A2 in the current, but not enough to have this, you know, six, 10, 50 parts in a row kind of thing.
00:19:25
John S
Adam, the machine is, sorry.
00:19:33
John S
Yeah.
00:19:36
John S
Adam, the machine is talked about also using union, but I didn't even bother to price it because I'm sure that's going to be the same like 60 to a hundred dollar grade, but three eights would be so small.
00:19:45
johngrimsmo
No, the union tools, I mean, unless you're talking about three eights or something big, that's big to me.
00:19:51
John S
ja Yeah, no, exactly.
00:19:53
johngrimsmo
Not size though.
00:19:54
John S
Probably, yeah yeah yeah.
00:19:55
johngrimsmo
ah
00:19:55
John S
That's what we're using now.
00:19:56
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I just ordered union tool hard milling tools, which are quite expensive that were over a hundred dollars each, but they're like regular carbide.
00:20:00
John S
Okay.
00:20:03
John S
Yeah.
00:20:06
johngrimsmo
Um, for the smaller diameters, more like eighth is 30 bucks.
00:20:10
John S
Okay.
00:20:11
johngrimsmo
So it's yeah, their catalog lists, uh, the price in yen and you just do the conversion union.
00:20:11
John S
but Maybe I will just get a price. um
00:20:20
John S
Oh! Okay, thank you, I didn't even think about that, that's great.
00:20:22
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:20:24
John S
um Because what I also found, and one of the reasons I felt a little bit, maybe, not helpless or frustrated, but like didn't know where to turn, um was there are quite a few toy manufacturers that will say, oh, this is good for tool steel, but like in what state?
00:20:40
John S
like and And I didn't see anything on Reddit, Practical Machinists, YouTube, et cetera, like, hey, no, I want a soft,
00:20:41
johngrimsmo
Yeah. What does that mean? Yeah.
00:20:50
John S
and mill for roughing A2, D2, S7, that type of thing.
00:20:53
johngrimsmo
Mm-hmm.
00:20:54
John S
um
00:20:55
johngrimsmo
I mean, I'd say if you're breaking the tool, something else is the problem.
00:20:59
John S
It's a fair point.
00:21:00
johngrimsmo
We'll inspect it before the break.
00:21:00
John S
oh yeah So again, just being honest, no.
00:21:03
johngrimsmo
You know, are you tracking minutes?
00:21:08
John S
And I need to figure out how to do that on the control. I don't actually know the second. I'm sure I can. I can track. It would be easy to manually just start tracking number of parts it made, but no, let's be smarter about it.
00:21:16
johngrimsmo
Sure.
00:21:18
John S
So yeah.
00:21:18
johngrimsmo
Yeah. How do on the Akuma, which runs so much, how do you know when to replace tools?
00:21:25
John S
um but We are not good at it. We basically are only reactive.
00:21:28
johngrimsmo
Interesting.
00:21:31
John S
um There are a couple of tools at one point we were just replacing each month because they were cheap and it didn't matter.
00:21:37
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:21:38
John S
But even that's not very smart because there are times we don't run certain programs a lot.
00:21:41
johngrimsmo
Mm-hmm.
00:21:42
John S
um And otherwise it is break detect and it just happens to be that rarely does it stop overnight. So it's not great, John, I'll be honest.
00:21:53
johngrimsmo
Yeah, interesting. um Well, what we're doing on the current is great, except still currently broken.
00:21:57
John S
Yes it is. is
00:22:00
johngrimsmo
We're down two weeks now on that system. um Although I've got Phil on board and Phil has almost entirely got it working.
00:22:07
John S
Oh, good.
00:22:09
johngrimsmo
And and we had a Zoom call the other day where I explained it all to him and showed him all the Python scripts and everything. And he started to wrap his head around it. And he's like, this is freaking cool.
00:22:21
johngrimsmo
Um, it's cool when it works though.
00:22:24
John S
But that you get, you there I have this full faith that you'll have that working, John.
00:22:26
johngrimsmo
Yeah, and totally.
00:22:29
johngrimsmo
Absolutely. And, uh, like it might work now. He's, he's working on it. Um, the last problem we had yesterday was. throughout this whole process, in order for me to get him to be able to remotely log into the pie, I had to, I had to update the pie.
00:22:40
John S
Oh. That's where we left off the last podcast.
00:22:43
johngrimsmo
So I can, okay. So i up I, I basically took a new SD card and I formatted it and I loaded the newest version of Raspberry Pi
00:22:45
John S
That's where you were.
Connectivity Issues with Raspberry Pi
00:22:51
johngrimsmo
OS, which is two versions later than what I had from three years ago.
00:22:51
John S
Okay.
00:22:55
johngrimsmo
So that's like going from, what is it? Windows eight to windows 11 or something. Like it's a decent job. um
00:23:01
John S
Uh, respectfully disagree. I could give two S's about windows eight versus 11 these days, but yeah.
00:23:04
johngrimsmo
Anyway. But but there were differences and I used to be able to network the current to a drive on the pie.
00:23:09
John S
Okay.
00:23:13
John S
Mm-hmm.
00:23:14
johngrimsmo
So I could the current could spit a file and it could see the drive on the pie just like it's a hard drive on the current. um And I used to be able to do that, no problem. And now on the new pie, I was not able to do it.
00:23:24
johngrimsmo
Like it took me all last night trying to connect these two stupid Linux computers to get them to talk to each other.
00:23:31
John S
Yeah yeah.
00:23:33
johngrimsmo
And I'm sitting there talking to jet chat GPT for hours and hours. Try this, try this, edit this, the pseudo config file, edit Samba, edit all this stuff. um And it turns out, it's a stupid thing. I eventually told chatgbt, oh, by the way, I updated Raspberry Pi two versions later. Did that do anything? And they're like, yes, obviously. They're like, the security measures of the old one are weak and the new one is more strong. So the current Linux is not able to talk to the new super secure settings for this file share service. So.
00:24:10
johngrimsmo
chat GPT told me how to roll back to a slightly less secure older terminology and then the current is able to talk to it now and it's great.
00:24:14
John S
Yeah, sure.
00:24:18
johngrimsmo
But I'm like banging my head against the computer like everything is right.
00:24:18
John S
That's great.
00:24:22
johngrimsmo
um Back and forth with with chat just got that didn't work. Okay, let's try this. That didn't work. Okay. It's fantastic.
00:24:28
John S
no Isn't it amazing, John?
00:24:30
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Oh, it was for programming this, it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. It was literally, it was having a conversation with somebody who knows what they're talking about.
00:24:36
John S
unbely Unbelievable.
00:24:41
johngrimsmo
And since programming is either a work or doesn't work kind of thing. It's not so subjective. It's not like, that's factually incorrect. It's like, it didn't work. Let me try it again.
00:24:51
johngrimsmo
and And it remembers the chat history. So it's starting to use the terminology, the drive names and everything that I've been using. And it's given me, it's given me suggestions that are copy paste, not just like insert password, not password, but insert username here.
00:24:58
John S
yes
00:25:05
johngrimsmo
um And it was just totally fantastic. Just mind-blowingly awesome.
00:25:09
John S
Yeah.
00:25:13
johngrimsmo
Yeah. So full circle, once that's working, um I highly recommend you turn on Tool Life Minutes on the the Okuma, like figure that out.
00:25:15
John S
Yes.
00:25:24
John S
Yeah.
Tool Life Management Strategies
00:25:26
John S
Yeah.
00:25:26
johngrimsmo
um I used to be a part-based to life, like the Mori is still part-based life and I hate it now. um Minutes is gold because
00:25:33
John S
We need.
00:25:38
johngrimsmo
you might run the same tool on different parts, which take different minutes. And you know it might run on a puck chuck for an hour, and it might run on a little mod vice for a minute.
00:25:49
johngrimsmo
But it's if it's counting parts, that's not accurate.
00:25:52
John S
We are good at separating tools out by part. So this tool only runs on this part.
00:25:55
johngrimsmo
Sure.
00:25:58
johngrimsmo
That's good.
00:25:58
John S
And that's another reason why this system tends to work better because we don't cross tools for the most part.
00:26:04
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:26:04
John S
We do chamfer emails and stuff, but yeah.
00:26:06
johngrimsmo
Yeah, for sure, for sure. um But minutes is fantastic because then starting in the middle of the life of everything, like if you turned it on right now, you're starting from zero.
00:26:10
John S
Yeah.
00:26:18
johngrimsmo
But as you replace tools, when you replace tools, you need a way to make sure the timer goes back to zero. um That's important.
00:26:24
John S
Yes. Yes.
00:26:25
johngrimsmo
I had to, I think I had to hard program that into my tool touch off routine doable. But, you know, when you pull a tool out and it's all chewed up and it's at 700 minutes and you're like, okay, let me make the limit, limit 500 minutes and then it'll be fine.
00:26:38
John S
Yeah.
00:26:42
johngrimsmo
And. you know, knock on wood, but we don't break tools anymore. And we are definitely replacing tools earlier than they probably could be pushed to.
00:26:52
John S
yeah
00:26:54
johngrimsmo
But I don't care because we never break tools and we always have accurate parts.
00:26:59
John S
Now you've got me fired up because um we have that Okuma email alarm where class C and class D alarms don't stop the machine, but they generate an alarm that gets emailed to me and to Garrett.
00:27:12
John S
So we can set timer limits that will be a D class alarm.
00:27:12
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:27:17
John S
So we'll be notified when the tool has hit it, but it'll keep running, which is exactly what I want.
00:27:20
johngrimsmo
it yeah
00:27:22
John S
So then the next morning I come in and the next time I want to check it, I can make that decision. and and Because that's the thing I want to do a little bit. I i have a ah huge amount of respect for the system you built.
00:27:28
johngrimsmo
There you go.
00:27:32
John S
The only thing I don't like about it is that it's probably never the case that you're going to stop and spend three months reanalyzing which tools could be run harder and longer.
00:27:43
johngrimsmo
But it's easy to do tool by tool.
00:27:45
John S
OK, fair enough.
00:27:46
johngrimsmo
Because I have a spreadsheet history, I can look back. It was three years, but I had to prune the list and make it only 12 months um of data. So I can look back at tool 60, which is a 130 second flat end mill finishing tool.
00:28:01
johngrimsmo
And I can be like, our tool life hasn't changed in a year. like I haven't modified it.
00:28:06
John S
okay
00:28:07
johngrimsmo
I think it's 60 minutes right now. um
00:28:11
John S
Okay.
00:28:12
johngrimsmo
And if I pull out a tool at 59 minutes that tells me to replace it and I look at it closely under the microscope, and I'm like, this thing still looks brand new. I'll bump up the life. I'll bump up the limit.
00:28:21
John S
Ah, I didn't realize you. Okay. God bless you. That's phenomenal.
00:28:24
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:28:24
John S
but Great.
00:28:25
johngrimsmo
So I don't think Angelo does it very much, but I'll do it every now and then. you know as As the system tells us to replace a tool because it's nearing the life, um I'll inspect it every now and then I'll be like, you know what?
00:28:29
John S
Yeah.
00:28:36
johngrimsmo
This is this is still brand new. It's still fine. Let me put another 40% on the tool life. Keep running it. um However, we've gotten everything down to the point where you know at 59 minutes we pull the tool out, the corners are starting to chip.
00:28:50
johngrimsmo
It's it's hanging in, but it's you know it's not got a lot left in it. um It's still like perfect, but it's on its way out kind of thing Sure
00:29:00
John S
And you're probably, it's funny how you get stubborn. Like I'm going to say you're, I think you're right, but I also want to argue with you about the A2 tool failure because we see tools where all the time and these are catastrophic.
Preventing Tool Failures and Efficiency in Machining
00:29:11
John S
So like, why is it?
00:29:12
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I think it's an overload condition like you're you're hitting a corner or a pocket an armpit That's just too much stock to leave.
00:29:20
johngrimsmo
I don't know I
00:29:21
John S
No, I know, but like it's breaking, so we're adaptiving this curvy edge. So it's an outside profile, it's a horizontal, the chips are falling away, and it's on the second or third pass, so it's already in a defined amount of material.
00:29:26
johngrimsmo
okay Okay.
00:29:33
johngrimsmo
lot is Is there no floor either?
00:29:33
John S
So it's it's not that.
00:29:36
johngrimsmo
It's just empty underneath?
00:29:38
John S
ah This is a finished part, there would be a small floor ah when it's doing op one.
00:29:40
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Small though, like not, like just a little lip, not a...
00:29:46
John S
The floor would come out to be square to it, so yeah, i know there's a real lip there.
00:29:48
johngrimsmo
Yeah. um Yeah, it shouldn't do anything, but that's a good point. I don't know.
00:29:54
John S
I should switch the holder too, just because.
00:29:54
johngrimsmo
um What are your speeds and fees? You just push it too hard.
00:29:57
John S
ah
00:30:00
John S
I could be, in fact, I just got an email back from a tooling vendor that suggested that maybe I am, but again, even if I am, I'm surprised it's failing in that manner.
00:30:11
John S
um I don't know if I'm gonna pull up real quick.
00:30:11
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:30:13
John S
I wanna say it's between 400 and 500 service fee, which initially felt high, but that I pulled data charts to show like, nope, that wasn't inappropriate.
00:30:19
johngrimsmo
fine yeah
00:30:23
John S
Actually Sandvik said the same.
00:30:23
johngrimsmo
Would you tip load though? Is it like sixth hour per tooth or something?
00:30:25
John S
No, two tooth, upper tooth and 10% step over.
00:30:27
johngrimsmo
two Should be okay.
00:30:31
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it sounds right. I mean, Hmm, maybe the tool just sucks.
00:30:34
John S
No plunging. um
00:30:39
johngrimsmo
I don't know.
00:30:40
John S
Well, so that's what, um I tell you, I got a little, I was appreciative of the peers I have, but also a little bit envious of how little I know about doing like, um I talked to Seth in the door, you know, Seth who now works, okay, and then Adam in machines a little bit.
00:30:51
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:30:55
John S
And they were sort of talking about um the edge quality and the strength and I hesitate to say much about this topic because I'm so inexperienced, but you know, cutting cutting stainless or titanium, you really want that sharp edge to shear the gummy material.
00:31:08
John S
But on something like this tool steel, you actually want a stronger, but albeit dollar edge that has more support behind it to allow it to do that work.
00:31:15
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:31:17
John S
And so that's one of the things I didn't like when I was looking through a lot of the tooling manufacturers was it was saying, oh, this is great for tool steels and stainless steels. I'm like, I think that's probably a different Which one is it, you know?
00:31:31
johngrimsmo
Yeah, like, so like Lakeshore has... ah I think it's the same tool, but four flute for steel, five flute for stainless is how they're selling it.
00:31:35
John S
Oh, there's ours separately. Sorry.
00:31:41
johngrimsmo
But I think it is the same same base.
00:31:41
John S
Bingo.
00:31:43
johngrimsmo
um But five flutes give you bigger core, gives you, I don't know if the helix angle is different.
00:31:44
John S
it's I do believe they're quite a different grind and you're right. The fourth flute from Lakeshore has honed edge strictly for tool steels, 4014A2D2, which is, that's what we're gonna order today to try out again.
00:31:57
johngrimsmo
Yep, yep. Yeah, trying a different brand would be good. I've had great success in the quarter inch version of the tool. I typically buy the five flute one, even though I run it in steel and titanium and everything.
00:32:10
John S
Yeah, yeah.
00:32:10
johngrimsmo
um
00:32:13
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:32:14
John S
I'm guessing I will have learned a lot by ah next week.
00:32:18
johngrimsmo
i have I have a five flute quarter inch version of that tool, the Lakeshore one, in the Willamond. I'd have to check the tool life, but it's it's been in there and it's eaten a lot of titanium.
00:32:30
johngrimsmo
And I looked at it the other day and it looks like totally untouched. And I'm like, holy cow, that's not normal.
00:32:35
John S
Yeah.
00:32:37
johngrimsmo
I don't know if it's the oil or whatever, but it's, I'm like, there's there should be more wear on this.
00:32:40
John S
Oil's supposed to be great.
00:32:42
johngrimsmo
And I'm kind of really impressed.
00:32:46
John S
That's the funny thing with A2 is like, it's, you know, I back in drop shopping days did do some work with titanium or with stainless and like this A2 cuts beautifully. It sounds beautiful.
00:32:56
John S
The chips are beautiful. And it's, it's almost like it's just chewing up the edges.
00:32:57
johngrimsmo
Yeah,
00:33:01
johngrimsmo
who yeah I'd say you've got some sort of very fixable problem on your hand. Sounds like your speeds and feats are fine, the strategy's fine. Tool grind, chip packing, run out, holder, pull stud is loose, like you gotta go back to basics, you know?
00:33:15
John S
yeah Yeah. Oh, my god. So you're talking about your the current um and changing those tools. So are you using the Rego machine often?
00:33:27
johngrimsmo
Yes.
00:33:28
John S
and are you doing okay And are you doing their cleaning process?
00:33:28
johngrimsmo
I mean, Angela uses it more, but I definitely used a lot.
00:33:33
John S
Or can you walk me through how you switch one out?
00:33:35
johngrimsmo
Hmm. Angela's better than I am at at adhering to a process. Um, usually I will just, you know, unclamp a tool, pull the tool up with the new tool and clamp it and put it back in the machine.
00:33:48
John S
Shame on you, John.
00:33:49
johngrimsmo
Sometimes I'll feel like I'll pull the call it out and I'll look, sometimes there's chips on the bottom of the call it sometimes there's not. So I just put it back together. Um, especially the tools that have through coolant and like, keep it kind of clean.
00:34:02
johngrimsmo
Uh, but we do have the, um, the, the wiper things with the piece of paper and the yellow sticks and we'll pull it cool and ah call it out.
00:34:05
John S
Hmm.
00:34:10
johngrimsmo
Usually I'll blow off the call that I'll squeegee wipe the inside of the the taper and then put it back together. We don't go so far as to like, we ultrasound to clean every tool and look good though.
00:34:23
John S
Okay, thank you.
00:34:23
johngrimsmo
What do you do?
00:34:25
John S
So it still is the new shiny tool in our shop. So I think it's usually easiest to treat that the nicest and that's what we're the state we're for sure in and grants very thorough and good.
00:34:32
johngrimsmo
Sure. yeah Good.
00:34:36
John S
I've only changed four tools in it and we're in that like, like, okay.
00:34:38
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:34:41
johngrimsmo
In the honeymoon phase right now, where it's like, yeah.
00:34:42
John S
You know, well, or like, you know, the, it's okay. Pour yourself a cup of coffee. Um, not that, not that it takes a long time, but we take it out. We blow them off. We alcohol wipe, and then we use the, their, their wipe. And we have a, actually, I'm actually really happy. We 3d printed, um,
00:34:56
John S
a little tray, I'll show you a little picture of it here. Oh, that's not even in the photo, but we 3D printed a new tray that has a spot to um to hold your old end mill and the new end mill with the collet in between it, because a lot of times with these small tools, it's like, well, I put the small tool down, which one is the old one and the new one?
00:35:09
johngrimsmo
Yep. Yeah, we've got one of those too.
00:35:15
johngrimsmo
Yep, yep. Yeah, we printed a similar thing where it's got three circles where you can put, these are HSK 40. So you can put the HSK 40 in upside down with the tool sticking up.
00:35:27
johngrimsmo
And then it's got ah a circle, a square, and a smaller circle so that either the end mill container can go in there, or we just pull out pull out the end mill and kind of put it in there.
00:35:34
John S
Oh, nice.
00:35:37
johngrimsmo
Um, but there is definitely that, you know, you got the new end mill in the left hand, you pull out the old end mill in the right hand and for half a second there, you're like, wait, which one's which? So I'll go to the microscope and be like, Oh, obviously.
00:35:49
johngrimsmo
Um, ah so if you're not on it, if you're talking to somebody, if you're distracted, if you're forget whatever, the last thing you want to do is put the old tool back in and just hit it, throw the new tool in the garbage.
00:35:59
John S
i read I reloaded puck tuck obtuse the other night and I put the ah i took the finish obtuse off and then the finish off ones. And instead of putting the op ones on the obtuse, I just reloaded the finish obtuse.
00:36:11
John S
And I was like, John. And it wasn't even like I was rushing. I just was just mindless.
00:36:14
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:15
John S
like yeah
00:36:16
johngrimsmo
Yeah, exactly. it's It's easy to make a mistake, but no, that's why we live for what we do.
00:36:25
John S
um We are taking a field day.
00:36:30
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:36:31
John S
We've never really done
Company Field Day and Business Growth
00:36:32
John S
this. so I'm super excited.
00:36:32
johngrimsmo
We how?
00:36:34
John S
um Actually, you're welcome to come. ah We are going to visit Henry Holsters.
00:36:36
johngrimsmo
Hmm.
00:36:40
johngrimsmo
Ah, yeah, he's not too far away from you in Indian, Indiana or something.
00:36:43
John S
Four and a half hours.
00:36:44
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it's a drive for sure.
00:36:45
John S
Yeah, it's a drive.
00:36:46
johngrimsmo
So we, we who?
00:36:46
John S
It's not.
00:36:47
johngrimsmo
you
00:36:48
John S
Um, so I don't, I mean, what he does, you know, shout out to him and Jay for the podcast. What he does as a shop and lean, ah like huge respect, like he's doing a great job. So I'd wanted to visit, um, and then they, uh, bought a fixture plate and a custom one. So they were like, Hey, would you just want to deliver it as a good excuse in Franklin nudge to get over there? And then I was like, well, I really liked a lot of our team to see their shop and learn and a chance to get out. So, um, I think two guys are staying back for.
00:37:17
John S
they but They were going to come and they decided to stay back, which is fine. ah Frankly would have loved them to come as well. But I think five of us are going on Friday.
00:37:22
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Nice. That's awesome.
00:37:25
John S
Yeah.
00:37:25
johngrimsmo
Yep. And I get the impression from talking to him a little bit that his shop and staff is bigger than we think it is.
00:37:33
John S
Agreed. His output.
00:37:35
johngrimsmo
Like, like we're at 12 people and I think he's at at like more than 20 kind of thing.
00:37:40
John S
I think he's, I think I'll learn more. I think there's probably some of the, of my like quarter, like ah poor example of the asphalt company.
00:37:44
johngrimsmo
Sure.
00:37:51
John S
Like he never really, actually he think he probably did run machines. So that's maybe rude of me to say that, but like they have a scalable business that is way beyond him now.
00:37:56
johngrimsmo
For sure.
00:38:02
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:38:03
John S
I think he's even hiring remote employees to do work um and good for him.
00:38:06
johngrimsmo
It's smart. He's a smart, smart guy.
00:38:08
John S
Yeah.
00:38:08
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:38:09
John S
Yeah. Yeah. Who's like a, used to be a, I think history teacher and has a strong music background. Like it's not the prototype of what you expect.
00:38:14
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:38:17
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:38:18
John S
Yeah.
00:38:19
johngrimsmo
Wow, I'm looking forward to a, you know, breakdown.
00:38:20
John S
So excited to see you. Yeah.
00:38:25
johngrimsmo
Fantastic. Yeah, I've thought about um doing that here. We go to Miltara would be a great shop for us to tour.
00:38:30
John S
For sure.
00:38:32
johngrimsmo
um They've now got a second building right next to the first that I haven't even seen yet. And it'd be great to bring several bunch of our guys and be like, this is
00:38:38
John S
Crazy.
00:38:42
johngrimsmo
This is the next level guys. so You think we're doing okay.
00:38:46
John S
Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:48
johngrimsmo
Yeah, we should do that for sure.
00:38:49
John S
Dude, that, um, one of those things kind of hit me like a freight train, like maybe it was that military video that you and I kind of did separately but together. It was like, it's like seven years ago, John, like a long time ago.
00:38:59
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I know.
00:39:04
John S
Um, well, the only other thing I had on my list was starting to think about 2025 and goals in and, what I think, what I know we're going to do and what I want to do, that kind of stuff.
00:39:10
johngrimsmo
Hmm.
00:39:16
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:39:18
johngrimsmo
You want to get into that or just surface level?
00:39:21
John S
I feel like I've been hogging the conversation.
00:39:23
johngrimsmo
Um, yeah, I mean, we could talk about that, say in the next upcoming few weeks, we got December 11th today.
00:39:27
John S
Yeah, that's good.
00:39:29
johngrimsmo
So we still got some time for the end of the year. Um, but yeah.
00:39:34
John S
What else? What's on your mind? What else?
00:39:35
johngrimsmo
Um, going well.
00:39:35
John S
What's going well? What's not going well?
00:39:37
johngrimsmo
So now that the Willem is up and running, I've been making, uh, clamps for holding blades both soft blades and hard blades on the current and the speedio and over the years I've developed all kinds of different shapes of clamps to hold the parts and
00:39:44
John S
Yep.
Innovations in Machining Processes
00:39:51
johngrimsmo
Usually they're custom for the part like Rasp Blade's got its own clamp, different clamp for soft, different clamp for hard. And I've tried to like consolidate and like, how do I have one clamp that like the Willyman can just make hundreds of that can clamp every one of these parts with different features and options, things like that.
00:40:07
johngrimsmo
So I think I've come up with the ultimate clamp for us anyway. And my my fusion file is literally now called the ultimate clamp.
00:40:15
John S
It's awesome Sure
00:40:16
johngrimsmo
And it's going really well on the Willyman. um We still haven't hooked up the bar loader yet. We just haven't needed to. So I'm only able to run little off cuts from the Nakamura.
00:40:29
johngrimsmo
So like little four inch pieces where I can get two or three parts out of it. Um, but it's running so well that I'm like, okay, Angelo, it's, it's time to get this bar loader hooked up. Cause I think, uh, I think we're in business now and the pocket clip on the field is relying on the Wilhelmin now.
00:40:45
johngrimsmo
Um, so we'll need the bar loader anyway. So hopefully before Christmas, we'll have that hooked up.
00:40:49
John S
Have you run a clip post air hose replacement?
00:40:50
johngrimsmo
Um,
00:40:54
johngrimsmo
Nope, but it should should be fine.
00:40:54
John S
Okay. Yeah.
00:40:57
johngrimsmo
Um, after that, that's going really well.
00:40:58
John S
Let's do that. Super exciting. By the way, like that's super excited.
00:41:01
johngrimsmo
Yep. And, uh, fields are making slow, steady progress. There's only a couple more things that I got to finalize. Um, and I'm hoping to have like, Fiel plus some done by Christmas, you know?
00:41:16
John S
Good. Awesome.
00:41:18
johngrimsmo
Yeah, which was really good. And I'm really planning all the fixturing and all the programming and all the everything to be scalable. Like I don't just want to make two fields a day.
00:41:29
johngrimsmo
I want to make 10 fields a day. Like we don't even make 10 knives a day right now. I want to be able to make 10 or more.
00:41:35
John S
Yeah.
00:41:36
johngrimsmo
um So it's really got me to restrategize how to put multiple parts on one fixture um and have multiple operations and similar machines and similar things and how to
00:41:42
John S
the
00:41:48
johngrimsmo
Like I originally had a soft blade made on a single palette, and now I've got two blades made on single palettes. So you're amortizing the tool changes. I think I talked about that last week a little bit. um And yeah, so it's going to be really, really good.
00:42:02
John S
No, I commend you on that. I know you're never like you're not a bulk manufacturer, but like you have long ways to grow where you yeah.
00:42:07
johngrimsmo
No, but to a point, like, yeah. And it could be to the point, i was I was thinking briefly the other day, like, we're not looking at any other machinery at the moment, but there will come a time, oh, hopefully when we need another machine.
00:42:23
johngrimsmo
And I think a lot about what that would be. um And another current would be amazing. And it would honestly just be, and we have so many processes based around the current in the aroa cell that it would just double our capacity or more.
00:42:35
John S
yeah
00:42:38
johngrimsmo
And like, it's a lot of money, but there is a future where that's a
Scaling Up Production Capacity
00:42:43
johngrimsmo
real possibility. And I want to get into the position where it's like, yes,
00:42:48
John S
Yes, totally.
00:42:48
johngrimsmo
you know, problem solved. And, you know, if somebody comes to me and says, okay, how do we double production? Well, that's the easiest way is just get another current.
00:43:00
johngrimsmo
um
00:43:01
John S
Oh, yeah. But are you sure you're using when you got correctly?
00:43:02
johngrimsmo
to Totally. and then And we're not using it fully.
00:43:06
John S
No, not root, not but challenging you, but like, yeah.
00:43:07
johngrimsmo
No, exactly. But two spindles is still more productive than one spindle, you know.
00:43:11
John S
Yeah.
00:43:14
johngrimsmo
We've definitely got more hours in the current. I haven't, I'm tracking the hours, but I have to like open some files to be able to see and and add them up to see how many hours a week it's running. But years ago when we were tracking it, we were running at 120 hours a week.
00:43:27
John S
I remember those. It was impressive.
00:43:28
johngrimsmo
Every week.
00:43:29
John S
Yeah.
00:43:29
johngrimsmo
And, and our workload's about the same, maybe a little bit less now, but so there's only another 40 hours of spindle time in a physical week that could, that could be squeezed.
00:43:38
John S
Sure.
00:43:40
johngrimsmo
and And yes, I want to squeeze.
00:43:43
John S
We the, first off, I really do think it's great that you're thinking like that. And we, Alex, I was sort of thinking about that with puck chuck stuff, which seems so crazy upside case. But like, what if we worked with a, what if we're in a situation where we need to be delivering a thousand a month to somebody?
00:44:03
John S
like like in there's no person i don't want ah There's another person I had a conversation with a long time ago where they were like, they had this opportunity and it was actually, as much as it was a huge upside, it's the Oprah effect. It's like, can you actually deliver that?
00:44:16
John S
Because if you can't, we will like we will never do business with again because you let us down.
00:44:17
johngrimsmo
right
00:44:21
John S
So it's yes, it seems great, but it's this is no joke.
00:44:21
johngrimsmo
Yeah, and we'll find somebody else. Yeah.
00:44:24
John S
and i mean i don't we we aren' in that position I don't i want it to be in that position, but I wanna think about that. and And then I go back to my little humble shop here.
00:44:30
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:44:33
John S
And right now it's super easy to run two at a time on one tombstone face. We should be able to fit four, but we're one screw hole short. And I was just like, don't, this isn't the battle you're fighting today, John.
00:44:43
John S
Just run the two, you're fine for now.
00:44:43
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:44:46
John S
and And later, I know that sounds like I'm kicking the can down the road, but we will, you can fix that later. let's The battle at hand right now is to get,
00:44:53
johngrimsmo
Yeah,
00:44:55
John S
enough to ship to the next process and blah, blah.
00:44:57
johngrimsmo
yeah.
00:44:58
John S
So, yeah.
00:44:59
johngrimsmo
It's the same thing. You want to get the whole thing done before you optimize every single process. But with the Fiona, I'm trying to do both at the same time, which is dragging it on for so much longer.
00:45:09
johngrimsmo
Like, like I made six, nine, six months ago, we brought them to blade show and Eric is certainly pushing me. He's like, why don't you just make more like that? They were fine.
00:45:17
John S
you know Yeah.
00:45:17
johngrimsmo
It's like, well.
00:45:19
John S
Yeah.
00:45:19
johngrimsmo
they were slow and hard and not fine.
Product Quality and Lapping Techniques
00:45:21
johngrimsmo
And now the new ones feel the action, the smoothness, everything is worlds better than those original ones.
00:45:28
John S
Yeah.
00:45:29
johngrimsmo
So it's coming together, man. I'm bringing it home.
00:45:31
John S
Good. Good.
00:45:33
johngrimsmo
So that is exciting.
00:45:37
John S
What do you do for the last hour of the day?
00:45:39
johngrimsmo
Yeah, not too much. um my my mom
00:45:50
johngrimsmo
I've been putting off hard milling for like weeks now.
00:45:53
John S
Why?
00:45:53
johngrimsmo
We've been talking, no reason, just I haven't, I haven't ultimately needed it.
00:45:55
John S
Oh, dude, it's great.
00:45:59
johngrimsmo
And I keep telling myself like, oh, this afternoon I'm just going to hard mill some blades, but I've been solving all these other problems.
00:46:00
John S
Okay. Well, yeah.
00:46:03
John S
catch kids
00:46:05
johngrimsmo
Um, I feel like I've told you this for three weeks in a row now, like, uh, that is on my to-do list. like I agree.
00:46:13
John S
It's phenomenal. Like I love it.
00:46:15
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:46:17
John S
We had a half inch bore on a test part that I wanted to, I mean, I wanted to lap it and I went to order a lap and then we actually found the lap that I ordered like nine years ago in my New York garage. And I was like, oh, jackpot. And then we now have,
00:46:32
John S
120 grit aluminum oxide powder. Mix that in with some Vectra spindle oil to create my own little lapping compound.
00:46:38
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:46:39
John S
Brush that on. Stuck the lap in our chinesium speet lathe and um turn it on slowly. Put the part over the lap and I tell you John it was like instant love.
00:46:52
John S
Like you feel
00:46:52
johngrimsmo
Yeah, lapping is something. Yeah.
00:46:54
John S
On this part, too, because you're holding the part as the lap rotates in and a stable way.
00:46:58
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:46:59
John S
And so you're you feel where it gets tight, and you go through it, and it it polishes up beautifully.
00:47:01
johngrimsmo
Mm hmm.
00:47:05
John S
And then we were checking it with our against our deltronics gauge. And you can literally start to feel how the gauge goes through the board that we're working on. Like, this is just, I love this.
00:47:14
johngrimsmo
That's incredible.
00:47:15
John S
Yeah.
00:47:16
johngrimsmo
Things you probably already know, but especially with a bigger part and a bigger lap and a very powerful chinese-ium lathe, um like whipping the part could be a real if issue.
00:47:18
John S
Of all yours.
00:47:23
John S
Yes.
00:47:26
John S
The part was the, uh, the part was the one inch dire.
00:47:29
johngrimsmo
um Okay.
00:47:30
John S
Yeah.
00:47:30
johngrimsmo
I thought it was like a base, a pop chuck base or something.
00:47:30
John S
Wasn't going to hurt me, but no, no. Yeah. No, no.
00:47:33
johngrimsmo
um But still, it's something to keep in mind. Like when we lap our our knife pivots, um
00:47:38
John S
who
00:47:39
johngrimsmo
We currently do it by hand with a drill, like a hand drill. And the small, uh, three 16th lap is in the drill and it can catch if it gets too much. We really should be doing it to a drill press.
00:47:49
John S
Yes.
00:47:49
johngrimsmo
Um, but then again, you get the helicoptering worry.
00:47:52
John S
yes
00:47:53
johngrimsmo
Um, that's the thing. And then I'm surprised 120 grit sounds pretty course, but maybe it breaks down pretty quickly and being aluminum oxide, uh, and leaves a good finish.
00:48:05
John S
No, i wasn't yeah I wasn't at all um sitting here saying I'm using the right grade per se, but um you certainly hear a lot about significantly finer grits.
00:48:08
johngrimsmo
No, no.
00:48:15
johngrimsmo
he
00:48:15
John S
I'll give you that.
00:48:15
johngrimsmo
like We've only used in the micron range.
00:48:18
John S
Okay.
00:48:19
johngrimsmo
I think 14 micron is the coarsest we use, although we have little squeeze bottles of every every grit. actually 3D printed a tray that lets them hold the syringes and the lap specific to that syringe from 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 14, 20 grit.
00:48:27
John S
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:48:39
johngrimsmo
So we've got dedicated laps for each one. Because we used to do everything with like one micron lapping paste.
00:48:46
John S
Yeah, it doesn't do anything, yeah.
00:48:47
johngrimsmo
It would just take forever. But that's how we did it for years. And then the guys figured out, well, if I just use like nine micron lapping paste, I can clean up this hole in seconds, not minutes.
00:48:58
John S
You're using diamond too?
00:48:59
johngrimsmo
We are using diamond. Yeah.
00:49:01
John S
Yeah, I intentionally didn't want diamond here because if you, the layman's understanding is if you don't get it perfectly clean, the diamond will continue to act over the time, whereas aluminum oxide will break down, so it can't cause that much harm.
00:49:12
johngrimsmo
Gotcha. Especially in the boar, you're creating a, well us too for that matter, creating a working boar that is going to constantly side something against it.
00:49:21
John S
Yes.
00:49:22
johngrimsmo
um The other thing I was going to caution is having your fancy expensive deltronics pins and shoving it into a hole with abrasive
Tool Wear Monitoring and Future Topics
00:49:29
johngrimsmo
that was in it.
00:49:29
John S
could you Yeah, you're gonna lap your pin.
00:49:31
johngrimsmo
Yeah, um so we buy the black wear recognition gauges that have this slight little coating on them.
00:49:36
John S
Oh.
00:49:38
johngrimsmo
We didn't for many years and the
00:49:39
John S
Is that from Delltronics?
00:49:41
johngrimsmo
ah McMaster.
00:49:43
John S
Okay, that's good to know.
00:49:44
johngrimsmo
They're Vermont gauge, I think, is who makes them.
00:49:47
John S
they come Do they come in 10 increments though?
00:49:48
johngrimsmo
No, they come in half thou increments.
00:49:50
John S
OK, bummer.
00:49:52
johngrimsmo
Yeah. But, so we were using just a silver one and the finishing guys didn't really know that it would get smaller over time.
00:49:59
John S
Mm hmm.
00:50:01
johngrimsmo
So, you know, two years later I look at it and I go, guys, this is, this is not in good condition anymore. And they're like, Oh, okay.
00:50:08
John S
Yeah.
00:50:08
johngrimsmo
Like, okay, you get the black ones now and the blacks gone, throw it away, get a new one. They're like $6 each or something.
00:50:14
John S
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna go look and see if either Deltronics offers that or maybe we could even have them coded somehow.
00:50:22
johngrimsmo
Change the, change the tolerance.
00:50:22
John S
I don't know about that though.
00:50:25
John S
Yeah, it's a good point though.
00:50:27
johngrimsmo
Yep. Yeah. McMaster does sell 10th increment pins, but not coded.
00:50:32
John S
Go ahead.
00:50:33
johngrimsmo
Um, but the gauge companies, Meyer gauge, Vermont gauge, they might.
00:50:37
John S
Yeah, I'll look into that.
00:50:40
johngrimsmo
Yeah, that is not a DIY. ah theres There's a solution out there.
00:50:42
John S
No. Yeah.
00:50:48
John S
Sweet.
00:50:49
johngrimsmo
Sweet.
00:50:50
John S
Oh, I wanted to ask you about DSI, but let's save that for next week then.
00:50:50
johngrimsmo
ah right ah ketoke I've been on the phone with them quite a bit this week, so that'd be great to talk about.
00:50:55
John S
so Yeah. Great. Sounds good to see you next week.
00:51:00
johngrimsmo
um man
00:51:01
John S
Cheers.
00:51:01
johngrimsmo
later