Introduction to 'Castles and Cryptids' Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Darkcast Network. Welcome to the dark side of podcasting.
00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome to Castles and Cryptids, where the castles are haunted and the cryptids are cryptic as fuck. And I'm your host, Alanna. I'm Kelsey. And we are here today with some panic at the Satanic Disco. You like that? We did. We're sticking to it. One of their songs. What episode is this?
00:00:56
Speaker
135, I think with our new number system.
Podcasting Challenges and Technical Issues
00:01:01
Speaker
Correct. I'm like, welcome to episode 135. Scratch that. Make it sound more professional. Insert number here. You know, if you've been here for a while, you guys know that we are Lana and Kelsey and
00:01:23
Speaker
Yeah, sometimes things don't go as planned, such as the podcasting world. Oh, God, yeah. We didn't know if we were going to be able to record today. Yeah, it was very last minute. As I checked Kelsey's schedule and forgot that, yeah, that it was a D&D weekend. And then it was like, oh, shit, well, when are we going to record if we didn't record Friday night? Because I wasn't ready then either. Anyway, it's Saturday.
00:01:53
Speaker
Saturday, Saturday. But hopefully it's Friday, wherever you are, because I love all those people that listen to it the day of, and I apologize for last week when a double draft posted accidentally, I guess is what I was saying. I had to delete the other one because when I was trying to make our posts pull from like the audio from Spotify, for some reason the
00:02:24
Speaker
the proper one that should have been there kept disappearing and then I'd like refresh the page and I'd be there again and then I would go and then it'd be like it couldn't pull through. I'd like click in to like view that episode and the description and everything and it would disappear again and it would be like page not found.
00:02:42
Speaker
And I was getting mad. So I went in, I had to like remake it, or I had to go in and add a couple like spaces or something so that it would really let me save that one, that episode. Uh, and then I had to go in and just completely delete the other one. Cause I was like, I don't know what's going on.
Accidental Publishing and Listener Engagement
00:02:59
Speaker
It kept hitting me. Yeah. I was like, Oh, I don't know. Yeah. Cause it doesn't let you make an episode draft without
00:03:10
Speaker
scheduling a date for publishing. So I had scheduled whatever. I made a draft of the episode and then I guess Kelsey made one and didn't see it. But then you had put actual show notes and started it and then put your audio in it already. So I'm like, oh, shit. Yeah, okay. Well, get rid of the other one. But I forgot to hit
00:03:33
Speaker
I don't know, what the hell would you hit? Like, revert to... I think you just have to delete it, like, completely. Yeah, because it makes you schedule it.
00:03:45
Speaker
Yeah. It used to be able to, you could schedule it or you could just save it as a draft until you want to actually go in and publish it. Now you have to hit publish now or schedule publish. That's your only two options. Right. Yeah. So I forgot it was still there, just an episode without any real audio content, just an intro and an outro. 11 people, nine or 11 people listened to. So thank you for the plays. I know. They must have clicked on it. And then I'm like, oh, what happened?
Considering a Platform Transition
00:04:17
Speaker
Oh my god. Anyway, one of these days maybe we'll be able to make the leap to a bigger and better podcast platform. Yeah, I've been trying to look it up. It seems kind of complicated once you have an established show and like to transfer your episodes. It's not just like
00:04:40
Speaker
Uh, cause you have to like transfer your RSS feed and everything. You can't just start. You can do it all yourself. Yeah. You can't just start posting on like a new thing cause then like your RSS feed or whatever that's separate. I guess it has to be like crazy.
00:05:00
Speaker
taken from one service to the other. So you have to like transition it or some shit. I don't know. I was trying to look it up one day and I was like, this hurts my brain. I can't do this right now.
Exploring Sound Equipment and Anecdotes
00:05:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes other podcasters talk about things and I'm like, I don't know. Yeah. You guys talk about how it was hard to figure out. It sounds like you're talking like audio engineer jargon. I have no idea what you're saying. People are like, I want a soundboard. I'm like,
00:05:28
Speaker
Can't we just use sound effects on our phones? Do you need a big, like, I think Pat, technically what Pat has, like he has a mixing board, but maybe a soundboard is kind of like that, that you plug in but also has all the
00:05:42
Speaker
the different sound effects you can do. I mean, we could get a shitty electric keyboard and just have some great music. Make the sound like Ross did with his little keyboard that he was like, nobody's ever heard this before. He was really, really nervous to play it. And then it's just like a whole bunch of random noises. Boom. I do not remember that very well.
Balancing Podcasting with Regular Jobs
00:06:15
Speaker
It's probably because I just, I just hate Ross. So one of those people. He does have his funny moments though. When he can't fit on leather pants. Some good lines. Pivot comes to mind. Yeah. And my sandwich. And the one where he has to put his hands to make the
00:06:37
Speaker
keep it down gesture, but it doesn't obviously translate on the podcast as well. Oh, yeah. The flat hands and then the can you just keep it down? I remember that. Yeah. I think my friend Anita, she's funny. She's near to my mom's age and she's doesn't take no shit from anybody.
00:06:59
Speaker
people being allowed in our office area the other day. They're not, and they're from like upstairs. They don't even work there. They're just, and she was all, so I popped my head up and can you just, oh my God. She makes me laugh. Anyway, we were just saying there's shows that don't have banter, but that couldn't be us. No, evidently. No, we'll know. And at least we get some of it out of the way first, like,
00:07:29
Speaker
Kelsey had a pretty good week, I think. We have not talked a lot, but no major issues. No, it's been very busy at work, but. Yes. Yeah. Same here. Same, same, same. Start of the shortest month and we have the most amount of vehicle registrations to renew. We're like, great, shortest month.
00:07:55
Speaker
highest number of plates to put through. Yeah, they need to like re redo the calendar or something. I know they have to divide up the different months have to take on letter like M and MA because there's so many like McDonald's and whatever's all the same. All I know is the ones that were new in December spell meow.
00:08:24
Speaker
M-E-O-N-W. Nice. I like that. And I'm Pete. My last name starts with Pete. So obviously I do, I renew in November and I haven't got knock on any wood, knock on any wood, knock on wood, any fricking photo radars since I've been taking the faster route. Oh, good.
00:08:49
Speaker
I'm hoping this year it'll be much cheaper when I go to renew my registration in November. Yeah. Mine renews in January, so it's like first of the year. Oh yes. It's easy to remember. Yeah, you said you had to do that before you went on your trip, I think. Yeah. Didn't want to have to worry about it when I got back. No. You're not on the auto renew then, clearly. No, I don't like it. Sorry.
00:09:17
Speaker
That's okay, it's one less frickin' thing for me to do. Yeah, I'm just trying to help Alana out.
00:09:24
Speaker
Well, because people don't update their shit too. They're like, I thought this plate was going to renew automatically every year. We're like, yeah, but then we emailed you that your credit card was out of date on file. And they're like, so I haven't had registration since last year. But that never happened to you because you're not that kind of person. Those are stupid unorganized people that don't think, wow, I didn't get any registration in the mail this year. I wonder if my plate's been valid. Yeah. And then people that like,
00:09:54
Speaker
Like we have to call them now when theirs fails and they get the email. Now there's a follow
Adult Responsibilities and Healthcare Costs
00:10:01
Speaker
-up call that we schedule. And so we're calling people and we're like, okay, so this is for this person's plate on file and oh, that's my daughter. Like so many people, it's just like with the membership, they have their adult children and they're like paying for their shit or they're on their membership. And you're like, she's 40.
00:10:22
Speaker
Oh my God, get your shit together. Oh yeah. That's one lady was literally bitching that she like pays for her daughter's everything. And then I get off the phone and I was telling my friend Kelly and she goes, I know how old is she? Like 41. And I looked at him and I was like, Oh my God. Yeah. She's literally in her forties. That is so sad. Anyway, rant over, but no, we do work regular jobs. So you will hear about them from time to time, unless you all join on Patreon, all 10,000 of you.
00:10:52
Speaker
whoever listened. Yeah, I'd need a lot more people than that. I'm on medication that's so expensive y'all. The health care system ate all that cracked up to me.
00:11:06
Speaker
No, but if if I quit my job, it means I'm not qualified, like covered to get it covered by the company anymore. So like by the private insurance company. So then I lose. Right. We'd have to make our own company before we'd be able to. Yeah. Like have health care, like health care benefits. I'm not even exaggerating. My one medication is like over $40,000 a year.
00:11:35
Speaker
Oh, nice. And in the States, you'd be like, great, none of this is covered. Yeah, exactly. I probably would have died 10 years ago if I lived in the States because it's cost over, I don't know, you could probably buy at least a very nice house in Canada and probably a million dollar house in the US for how much it's cost to keep me alive for 10 years. Or if you lived in a different century.
00:12:05
Speaker
Yeah, I would have just died. So much fun. Even 50 years ago, I probably would have just died. Give her some leeches and then try the... Oh God, what was it? Someone said they gave it and Claire on Outlander was shocked. Cocaine? I would say do some cocaine about it. Yeah, that's what they say. I don't know. I originally heard that on Wine and Crime. I don't know if that's where it's from. There's ghosts in your blood.
00:12:36
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Mercury, they treat them with mercury things. Yeah. Let's bleed you some more. Yeah. That should help. They give you some cocaine, maybe some alcohol. An enema. Oh, yes. Let's do old, old timey quack cures that kill people, for one. Maybe. Patriot episode or something.
00:13:07
Speaker
People like the medical mystery ones. Oh, sorry. Yeah.
Satanic Influences in Music
00:13:13
Speaker
Okay. So what is your case? We didn't even say what we're doing. This is, I guess, say champ panic at the disco. Sorry, like 18 minutes ago. Yeah. Okay.
00:13:31
Speaker
Oh yes, but I don't know if we said it is a Patreon. It's a fan picker, a very special fan picker episode picked by my very own Pat. He thought it would be fun. It was. He lived through that era. Then he was like, oh, and then Kelsey might want to do, I don't know, but he thought you might want to do the musical industry side of it because I'm interested in
00:13:58
Speaker
music. I don't know. You know what I mean? I do. I thought it was interesting. I've ran into like a few different things that happened that were cool. Well, not really cool. I mean, no, but I guess, I mean, that were interesting to look into. It's like, Oh, I know. Like I'd heard of that before. I know about that, but hadn't heard the history of it.
00:14:23
Speaker
No, no one ever says any specifics. It's always just like, playing rock music backwards is evil. Yeah. La, la, la. Yeah. Yeah. You never know the rest of it. Like. Yeah, some stuff it did bring up I found. What did I find? It was some good sources. There was a heavy blog is heavy dot com. I really liked them.
00:14:51
Speaker
Interesting name. Yeah, it was actually a heavy metal like music website and their writers like composed this huge really long history about like the war on heavy metal music. Wow, that would be a pretty interesting read I bet.
00:15:11
Speaker
And then there was some information from Vice.com, some from the Guardian, and then there was like a little student newspaper I ran across that had a headline that said, Sympathy for the Devil, a brief history of music and satanic music. I was like, ooh, I like sympathy for the devil.
00:15:34
Speaker
that's uh it's a Rolling Stones song okay okay it was like who is it thank you i was just thinking it was a magazine too yeah uh okay that's awesome yeah i'm excited i think that's gonna that's gonna be interesting um i do have some things i wasn't sure if you were gonna mention them so you might touch on like a few things i feel like there's a bit of overlap between
00:15:58
Speaker
I tried to stay away, but yeah, there's plenty to talk about. Yeah. But what I did run across starting out was that the Church of Satan actually was founded in 1966, which I didn't know. I thought it was like older, but it was founded by- Sounds recent.
00:16:20
Speaker
Right, compared to a religion, I guess. Yeah, most other religions for sure. Yeah, it was formed by Anton Lavey and he declared in 1966 that it was the first year in the age of Satan.
00:16:40
Speaker
If you actually look up the beliefs of the Church of Satan, they're all quite reasonable. Yeah, I've heard that before. Yeah, if you actually look up their commandments or whatever you want to call them or the rules they live by, it's actually not that bad.
00:16:58
Speaker
It's not like the opposite of the Ten Commandments or anything. No, it's actually really good. With this founding of the Church of Satan, all of a sudden there's this huge shift in societal attitudes as this once feared belief system of believing in Satan and stuff is now being more prominent in the public and that people are actually
00:17:23
Speaker
kind of starting to do it or like encouraging others to follow them in the movement. Okay. Yeah. With the founding of the church itself, it resulted in attracting some rock stars and celebrities who also helped to bring the movement more into the mainstream, which obviously like pissed a lot of people off. Yeah. Yeah. Get celebrities just like Scientology.
00:17:51
Speaker
Oh, follow on. More people will come. Oh, yeah. And then there's people say his wife looks like Taylor Swift. I think. Oh, really? I think it's Anton LaVey. Yeah. I did not even look him up. I should have.
00:18:10
Speaker
I didn't have a lot specifically about the Church of Satan. I just had a couple paragraphs for about the music industry. It has little to do with the panic, really. Yeah, exactly. The Church of Satan was just one part of multiple of these counterculture movements that started happening in the 60s.
00:18:35
Speaker
more so than ever people were starting to stand up for different rights and even their rights and music was beginning to play like a huge part of that. So like civil rights movements, the civil rights movement was ongoing, rock and roll music was really starting to become very popular and then hippies were starting to spread their message of peace and love. Summer of love baby!
00:19:05
Speaker
All right, the Church of Satan was just another way for like certain groups of people to express themselves. And a reflection of some people rejecting these traditional values, which seemed to be like they said the 60s was like one of the biggest times of people rejecting like the norm and traditional values. So this was just one avenue people chose to do that in. Other people were like hippies or
00:19:35
Speaker
Yeah, all that kind of stuff. We're getting really into fighting the war. Yeah, often backlash against wars and stuff for sure. Why are we doing all these things? Because they tell us to. Exactly, just questioning a lot of stuff. Yes, how many wars gave us taxes and other bullshit like that?
00:20:00
Speaker
So these traditionalists or people that didn't want anything to change, they were very upset with what was going on and they were trying to do all they could to
00:20:11
Speaker
instill this panic and fear of those who associated with the Church of Satan or anything out of the norm, really. A couple of the things I ran across, which it won't be too surprising, but some of the biggest in the music industry that he had targeted before, because this wasn't anything new, included jazz music in the 1920s. That had a lot to do with racism and everything.
00:20:41
Speaker
that if you enjoyed it, you were, like, lesser and... Right, because black people. Yeah, right, which really sucks. Like, I myself don't like jazz music, but I feel like in the 1920s, it was huge. Like, jazz music, I feel like it was the 1920s. Yeah, and I think it gave birth to a lot of those other, like, you know, if we didn't have jazz, maybe we wouldn't have had rock and roll and all those other things. Yeah, that's what they say.
00:21:11
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I don't know. It's got its place, I guess. My aunt, my aunt really liked jazz music. I never got into it. I can't do it, but it's okay. Maybe it's associated with a lot of like elevator music and places like that.
00:21:30
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. And then like going kind of jumping ahead the next, I'm sure there's more in between, but the next that really I feel like stands out the most is probably Elvis Presley in the 1950s. Those hips.
00:21:46
Speaker
You know ever heard of him. Yeah, everybody had a had something about his hips Yeah, yeah, they wouldn't like show him on TV for low waist downs
00:22:03
Speaker
So he was probably the next biggest music or artist. And then some stuff was talking about the Rolling Stones in the 1960s. I think I have like what your sympathy for the devil even came out, that song. Because there was a huge backlash for that as well.
00:22:26
Speaker
Oh, because it says devil and sympathy for him. Yeah, basically. I can see that. Yeah. Took me a minute just just to be like, okay, yeah, well, it's kind of right there in the title, I guess. Yeah. They're like, he's getting a bad rap. Come on, these Christians. They're on a crusade.
00:22:47
Speaker
Another huge thing that occurred that really instigated this was the public panic when Charles Manson and the family were caught, and then the fact that they had written Helter Skelter.
00:23:02
Speaker
um the song by the Beatles in blood at the murder scene um that really um freaked people out and uh made music even more forefront in like how it could be involved in murder or maybe influence people right so it was a song like first and then he
00:23:25
Speaker
Yeah, there's a song, Helter Skelter. He says a lot of stuff about the Beatles. He was a fan of the Beatles. And then he was trying to say that the white album, there was subliminal messaging and stuff in it that told him that there was
00:23:49
Speaker
Some people say that he was saying there was like this big race war that was supposed to be coming and he was trying to help and stuff. And he thought the Beatles were talking about that in that one. Yeah. Oh, they get accused of a lot of hidden messages. Yeah. Having people being dead and yeah. Yeah. Uh, so suddenly like with this, obviously it's one of the craziest things that's ever happened. Like Charles Manson, we still talk about him now.
00:24:17
Speaker
But back then, in the 1960s, this just freaked people completely out, and suddenly the Church of Satan or their members weren't the only ones to be feared, and the public really began to pay more attention to the music and possible hidden messages that could be heard, and people claiming that.
Societal Fears and Satanic Panic
00:24:42
Speaker
A little bit of background, I thought this was just interesting too, because some of the articles talked about it was that more and more parents at this time were getting divorced, and with many women now becoming single mothers and looking after the kids or even going to work themselves.
00:25:00
Speaker
There was less and less of them at home to stay and watch their kids after school. It was harder to monitor what they were doing. So the fear was more so than it had ever been before. But what are your kids up to? Do you know where they are? Do you know what they're doing? Oh, yes. It's 9 o'clock. Do you know where your kid is? Or what are all those type of slogans?
00:25:29
Speaker
yeah you're a single mother or like you're going to work and stuff it was more so than ever before yeah less traditional for sure yeah uh there was also a sorry i saw his little foot i know you're still you can still be in my way even if you're not in the mike's way um
00:26:02
Speaker
In 1980, there was this faux autobiography, which I had remembered hearing about this. I didn't know this was actually a faux autobiography from the beginning. It was released by a psychiatrist and his patient who later ended up becoming his wife, entitled Michelle Remembers.
00:26:24
Speaker
I've heard of it. Yeah. Yeah, it detailed like a series of ritual abuse claims on kids by daycare workers. And it was attributed to cults, which helped reinforce the fears of those who took the book as to be true. Like they basically came out a few years later and said it wasn't true. But by then, you know, it's like clickbait people have latched on.
00:26:53
Speaker
Right, I will. Yes, I will talk about that book a little bit more, because yeah, okay, good. Because that's all I had on that. Okay, okay. Yeah, I'm like, kind of, but I also have to expand on that. Yes. Okay. Yeah.
00:27:08
Speaker
It came up a lot in my research. Yeah. So in the 1980s, like there was multiple murders that were, they were starting to be described as ritualistic in nature. And part of like worshipping Satan or like sacrifices, I guess. Always with the sacrifices, usually babies and animals, right? It's the most salacious things they can think of. So many of these
00:27:37
Speaker
supposed murderers said that they were told to do it or felt like they needed to. And while investigators were searching for motives, many investigators relied on this satanic panic fear that was going on and started looking into who the murderers were fans of, like what kind of music they listened to.
00:27:57
Speaker
And as a result, there was many bands including Brock and Roll and especially heavy metal bands that ended up being blamed for influencing their listeners to commit murder. Because they're finding some correlation and they're calling it just causation of crimes. I mean, if they don't really know what's motivating, probably in the 80s, they didn't know a lot about what's motivating you.
00:28:23
Speaker
I mean, they barely had the word serial killer yet or anything. And like John Douglas and everything's starting to research with the FBI about what, all that kind of stuff. So. I'm sure. I'm trying to figure out why a 16 year old would like stab their parents would be kind of unreal to try and think about in the eighties. Yeah. I think some people had common sense, but.
00:28:49
Speaker
But nowadays we just, we know a little better too. Yeah. So this was reinforced in 1988 when Geraldo Rivera. Geraldo, yes. Geraldo. Geraldo Rivera. He ended up releasing a documentary entitled Devil Worshiping, exposing Satan's underground.
00:29:14
Speaker
Which, okay. I heard him. I can picture him. Doesn't he have like the crazy mustache and like all that shit? Apparently, yeah. He was a big old news guy. Yeah. There's some song that he thought he knew where Al Capone's secret stash of money was. And it's like, it wasn't in the vault, but it wasn't Geraldo's fault. Oh my God. I like it. Yeah.
00:29:41
Speaker
but I don't know much more about him. So this documentary depicted Metalheads as blood-drinking, grave-robbing, sacrilegious hooligans, according to that like Metalheads. That was from the Metalheads website, so I was like, okay. I was like, I kind of love that. Hooligans! I love the word hooligans.
00:30:07
Speaker
metal lyric already. It also discussed a series of murders that have been linked to devil worship with many of the perpetrators' mental health and home lives often being ignored as well as any of their drug use.
00:30:28
Speaker
and stuff. So they basically skipped over any other motives or things that could have contributed. And we're just like, it's because they listened to happy metal music.
MTV's Role in Music Censorship
00:30:39
Speaker
Yeah, none of these other mitigating factors or nurture and influence. Yeah. Right. All right. Yeah.
00:30:48
Speaker
Someone to blame. Yeah, the next thing to get blamed was MTV. For MTV. Okay, when I was a kid, every day after school I would just put on MTV and every day in the summer
00:31:07
Speaker
Uh, you could probably ask my mom. She would be sitting there reading magazines and after her daily talk shows were done, like Oprah and then like Dr. Phil and then Dr. Oz and all that stuff, after all of that was done.
00:31:24
Speaker
I would get to watch TV and I would literally just hit to MTV and I would just watch the top 20 music videos. It would be like three hours long and it would just play on loop and then the next thing would be like the top 40 and then just play on loop. I would just put it on in the background all day long. I just watched MTV. I didn't think they got MTV. I remember watching much music.
00:31:51
Speaker
Maybe you guys had more channels than we did. Oh, I think we had bunch of music too. I would go back and forth between the two and whichever one was playing music videos, I would just flip to it. This stuck with me. This stuck with me. Because in 1981, MTV was introduced. It first started.
00:32:11
Speaker
And music videos were starting to be broadcast, and these often included symbols associated with devil worshippers, which included the number 666, inverted crosses, and pentagrams. Oh, poor pentagrams. Poor maligned pentagrams.
00:32:36
Speaker
Because of those petitions across the US ended up successfully banning MTV from being broadcast. I don't know how many of these petitions in total worked, but one of them worked in the state of Virginia and it stopped MTV from being broadcast to like 1,500 homes. It was banned. Oh my gosh, Virginia. They were like, nope, we're having none of that.
00:33:03
Speaker
Right. And if you didn't get like successfully banned, there's heavily edited versions of music videos, which I remember seeing. I remember sometimes looking them up on YouTube and be like, oh, this is different than what they show on TV. It's like the four TV movies when they like leave it out or yeah.
00:33:25
Speaker
Um, so these heavily edited versions of music, edited out a lot of sex, violence, drug use, or negative depictions of certain societal groups. Some, some videos would be nothing at all. Yeah. It's just complete blackness. Got too banned. Nothing. It's just like, and, and credits. Oh, the Chili Peppers had some, some wild ones. I liked some of the ones that came out.
00:33:53
Speaker
yeah when californication came out i remember i was still watching well there still was a lot of music videos then whereas now you yes don't just see youtube yeah if you don't look it up on youtube you probably don't see it yeah or even realize that there would be a video yeah yeah because i think pat will talk that metallica still does some cool ones but yeah he loves metallica so
00:34:17
Speaker
Clearly he's the taintiest. And we heard it here folks by that degree. Yeah. Um, yeah. So like these edited versions were shown and eventually MTV agreed to play only the unedited versions of the videos in their late night slots. So after a certain time, and this led to the creation of what was called the head bangers ball in 1988.
00:34:46
Speaker
Which I kind of love. I think that's a cool name. Yeah, so after like a certain time of night, it would like switch over to the headbanger's ball and then they'd play all the unedited versions of the videos. Ah, it's like the late night cable that goes for an ear as the night goes on. Yeah.
00:35:08
Speaker
uh getting into some of the I guess like crime cases I don't have a lot of details on these because I didn't want to focus on it uh yeah we didn't know if that could be like because that could be its own episode
00:35:21
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. So these are some of the music related satanic panic cases that happened. I thought these were like, they were some of the ones mentioned the most often or I think the most interesting. There was one where Ozzy Osbourne appeared in court via satellite. He was being asked because there was a trial for 14 year old Thomas Sullivan.
00:35:47
Speaker
who is a black Sabbath fan and had stabbed his mother to death. So like Ozzy is like fucking satelliteing into this kiddies never met murder trial. And be like, Ozzy, what do you think about this? Yeah, no kidding. Did you tell him to do it? Yeah, fuck crazy.
00:36:10
Speaker
Yeah, the only information, I'm sure there's more information about this. All the article really said was that when asked about the connection between his music and a number of crimes that had been mentioned like before, it said he was more or less cut off before he could give a substantial defense. So like they had him satellite in and then they didn't let him talk basically. Oh my lord. I wonder if that's what he was also featured on
00:36:37
Speaker
or whatever. Probably. Obviously. Obviously he's known for doing some crazy shit in his band's time. Yeah. Yeah. So the fear that heavy medic
00:36:52
Speaker
Heavy medical contained lyrics, which encouraged young people to do bad things. It was never more prevalent than in 1985 when 20-year-old James Vance tried to sue Judas Priest. After a night of partying, Vance and his friend, 18-year-old Raymond Belknapp
00:37:23
Speaker
Probably just Belknap. Headed for a local playground and shot themselves. Belknap wouldn't survive the incident, but Vance would and went on to file a lawsuit against Judas Priest as he claimed the subliminal messaging within their stained glass album drove him to the act. Wow.
00:37:46
Speaker
That's a wild one. Right? Yeah. Ultimately, the band and their record label would avoid any legal responsibility for the tragedy, but this did not stop any of the public fears.
Misunderstanding Heavy Metal Music
00:37:59
Speaker
Ish. Yeah, they fingered them. He said it was your fault. Yeah, basically. Yeah, that one's I mean, OK, I would be interested to know if he had any specific things he pointed to like that's such a specific claim. I don't know.
00:38:18
Speaker
One thing I did run across, I probably should have done this. I feel like I had some assumptions going in because I don't listen to heavy metal music. But it's a not all heavy metal bands wrote songs about Satan or those kind of themes. One of the websites talked about a metal band.
00:38:41
Speaker
called Striper, which promotes the opposite. I think they're like Christian heavy metal. I don't really know. They're just nicer, nicer heavy metal. I don't know.
00:38:55
Speaker
I mean, it's not like the rap lyrics are very nice against a lot of different types of people women included. Yeah, exactly. I do know that they've done studies and everything. I didn't really look it up, but they've done studies that say that people that listen to like screamo and heavy metal music are some of the
00:39:17
Speaker
most in touch with their feelings and can regulate their emotions better than other people because they release a lot of their anger through singing along and everything.
00:39:31
Speaker
To that point, I've heard Pat be like, I'll put on Metallica in the car and I feel less road rage and I'm like, it does seem to work because I'm focused on it. It seems to allow people to vent their emotions. Even though I don't enjoy it, it seems to be beneficial to people, so I'm happy they like to enjoy it. I don't know. Right.
00:39:54
Speaker
Well, I don't know if, yeah, the one I really listened to was Metallica, so I don't know if that one's considered heavy metal. No, I don't even think it showed up on my list. No, they're more rock slash, obviously, the metals and the name, but Lars Ulrich stole that name from a friend of his anyway who had a metal magazine.
00:40:17
Speaker
Oh, okay. You said so on smart list. Yeah. And then it wasn't just heavy metal bands that were being like pointed the finger at and saying you guys are causing bad immoral behavior. There was also like pop music was becoming more risque. He said with artists like Madonna, Cyndi Lauper and Prince. Hell yeah.
00:40:44
Speaker
Oh, my God, I saw stuff even talked about Michael Jackson. I was like, oh, god damn, Michael Jackson. Yeah. Did you see we saw the Weird Al movie, Pat, like got it on the Xbox or something? I haven't seen it yet. I want to watch. There's a Madonna storyline. I had heard that there was. Oh, isn't he really trying to kill him or something? They like date. And then, yeah, a bunch of stuff happens. I love it. It's so ridiculous. I haven't seen it yet, but.
00:41:15
Speaker
It was such a parody over the top of his younger years and stuff. His dad's so mean that Rain was like, what is happening? I'm like, don't worry. He's just like this. His parents were very nice to him.
00:41:32
Speaker
He did not have to overcome all these crazy obstacles. Adversity. Other than finding hair product that works for him. That's so good. I know I've heard a lot about Madonna and everything. She's faced a lot of shit over the years and everything.
00:41:58
Speaker
like lyrics, music videos, all that kind of stuff. Oh, yeah. So it doesn't shock me that people were talking about it in this. They're like, it's demoralizing. The Like a Virgin video alone has a lot of Catholic, isn't that? Yeah. Yeah. Overtones. Like a surgeon. Yeah. For the very first time. Oh, Rayne was like, that girl is gorgeous. I'm like, that's Evan Rachel Wood playing Madonna. She does look gorgeous.
00:42:29
Speaker
I like Evan Rachel. She's good. I love the 80s Madonna look. Such an iconic costume. Next, a huge thing that happened. In 1985, there was a committee known as the Parents Music Resource Center.
00:42:47
Speaker
And they made a list of songs. All the articles talked about this. It was kind of funny. They made a list of songs that they deemed inappropriate and the list was called the Filthy 15. And if you look up the Filthy 15 today, it's so funny. I tried to find a playlist on YouTube just to sit and listen to while I was doing these notes and I couldn't find one.
00:43:11
Speaker
that had all 15, and then I ended up not listening to a bunch of these songs as a result because I was too lazy to look them up individually. But... We'll be following up on that. That sounds amazing. Yes, I do have a picture of it. So you can look at it on the drive and you can look these up. It's like the naughty list of songs. Yeah.
00:43:36
Speaker
kind of there's one that comes to mind by like a comedy group that it's almost like the George Carlin thing he does about the seven words you can't say on radio because it's like oh yeah they won't play this song on the radio i bet you they won't play this bleep bleep bleep song it's all these like bleep noises and different horns and they yeah nice i like that yeah
00:43:59
Speaker
Yeah, so they released this list as a template and they were trying to propose legislation that would regard how albums would be rated in the future. They argued that they should have extra warnings on them for like sex, violence, drugs, alcohol, or the occult.
00:44:21
Speaker
They all set up the 15, nine of them were like metal songs slash bands. There's like Judas Priest, Mobley Crue, Prince, Sheena Easton. There was Wasp. Some of these are just because they were about sex or masturbation.
00:44:44
Speaker
Yeah, Wasp is on here, Merciful Fate, Vanity, Def Leppard, Twisted Sister. Def Leppard? Yeah. I think if that was so tame. Their song was High and Dry. I think that's fine. Oh my gosh. At least it's not Pour Some Sugar on Me. Like, come on, what's... Ooh, innuendo. Yeah. Twisted Sister. We're not gonna take it. What? I know, right? That one was literally just because it's about like...
00:45:15
Speaker
standing up for yourself. Oh my god. Anti-establishment. Yeah, they're like, put that on the list. Madonna, dress you up. Cindy Lauper, ACDC. This one makes sense. Let me put my love into you.
00:45:34
Speaker
I like it. The Black Peppers have some raunchy lyrics when it comes to that. Oh my God. Black Sabbath, there was Mary Jane Girls and Venom. Blood Sugar Sex Magic should be on there. Just from the Tutt album name. Yeah, that whole album that I've never listened to. It's good. It's got Give It Away on it under the bridge is from that one. It's got some good ones.
00:46:03
Speaker
that made it to the radio. I don't really like the Red Hot Chili Peppers. I know it breaks your heart, but... That's fine. Their stage show was meh. There was no socks on penises. I was disappointed. No tube socks.
00:46:26
Speaker
Yeah, so that's the list. There'll be a picture of it on the drive for like the specific songs. So the next one I kind of found of a band that was criticized was ACDC. Yeah.
00:46:45
Speaker
They were in the public eye after the capture of the Night Stalker, Richard Ramirez, who was actually a big fan of the band. They said he left an ACDC hat at one of the scenes or something. Oh, really? Yeah. That's odd. Once that was made public, the public was accused ACDC of possibly influencing him with their song, Night Prowler.
00:47:16
Speaker
Well, maybe it just... Then why didn't everybody else that ever listen to it become a horrible, raping murderer? I have listened to ACDC. My dad really likes them. So I know some of their songs. This one I didn't know, but the song is just about a guy who sneaks in his girlfriend's room late at night. It's not like...
00:47:44
Speaker
Anything too bad. So. There's way more problematic songs out there. Yeah. He's sneaking into his girlfriend's room at night, like asleep with her. And that's pretty consensual. Yeah, exactly. Not a stranger's room, whatever. Um, yeah. Um, headlines at the time, even accused ACDC for standing for anti-Christ devil's child.
00:48:13
Speaker
Uh, not alternating current, whatever the fuck, direct current. I don't even know. Is that what it's supposed to stand for? I don't know. Well, if it's referring to like ACDC, like as in the electrical term, like the power. Not Antichrist Devil's Child.
00:48:34
Speaker
That one guy does dress like a weird schoolboy child. Ang is young. He's wearing those shorts. Schoolboy child. Schoolboy child. With your little suit and tie. Schoolboy child. The devil dresses him. Make those shorts shorter. And the knee socks higher.
00:49:00
Speaker
wrinkly old knees. That's not the knee porn I'm here for. I want kilts. Yeah, so another one I ran into that had a thing about the name was Kiss, actually the band Kiss, who then had to defend their name when people claimed it stood for Knights in Satan's service.
00:49:27
Speaker
i don't know what kiss is supposed to stand for but i don't think it's that right i don't think it's anything yeah right some of these i don't think stand for anything or sometimes it's literally just people's initials and then they like yeah r-e-m they don't people are always like like rapid eye movement they're like no okay no speed wagon
00:49:53
Speaker
the one who's next to when you're flipping for CDs. What the fuck is that name about? That doesn't mean anything. Yeah. Oh, Jericho was talking about weird band names on his podcast the other day. And his band's name is Fozzy. Originally, they were an Ozzy Osbourne cover band. They were Fozzy Osbourne. And then they just dropped the Osbourne. That's cute. Yeah. But now people are asking if it's from Fozzy Bear.
00:50:23
Speaker
Yeah, I was gonna say like the fawns. No, like Fauzi waka waka. Yeah, I thought this was...
00:50:35
Speaker
Kind of interesting, there was like two sides to this about being kind of shit on in public about like, oh, you guys are influencing people to commit murder. So some of the bands like Twisted Sister ended up appearing in court against this committee that was trying to say like that filthy 15 committee. And they were trying to stand against the government and argue their freedom of speech.
00:51:02
Speaker
and try and reject these claims of trying to influence people to murder each other. So while they were trying to do that in court, other bands basically did the opposite. There's lead singer, Merciful Fate. He said he was a proud, card-carrying member of the Church of Satan. The band had lyrics influenced by horror films and the occult. And they're a band along with Venom, another one from the list.
00:51:33
Speaker
Oh, publicly welcomed the publicity. I was like, what does this say? And joked that the committee had actually failed to pick even their worst songs and had ended up actually helping increase their album sales.
00:51:46
Speaker
Because it got them a lot of publicity because Merciful Fate and Venom were more indie underground bands, so when they got called out, it actually made them more popular and made more people aware of the reason. Yeah, this is the first time I've ever heard of them. Sorry. Yeah, same.
00:52:05
Speaker
That's not helping matters. In the end, though, the committee was actually successful and a parental advisory label was added to many albums and continues to be used today. That's like parental advisory explicit content. That one, that's what this group did. It was actually what the spear header was like some senator's wife. It was a bunch of senator's wives. It always is.
00:52:34
Speaker
Yeah. It's like, I guess, whatever. That's fine. You can't ban everything, though. Jeez, yeah. It's fine that they have ratings on movies now and stuff. It just helps you know if you're a little tiny kid should watch it.
00:52:49
Speaker
Interesting thing though is that many people now say that the advisory sticker often increases album sales to those of like the same artist that doesn't have so if they release like one album that has the sticker it tends to be better than like if the next album doesn't.
00:53:08
Speaker
Yeah, probably not for like Sarah McLaughlin. People probably don't care, but like probably for the other ones, they're like like rappers and everything. I'm sure almost probably almost all rap albums now have it. A lot of hip hop ones will. Yeah, and there was one. It was a Blink 182 album. And it wasn't even one of my parents. It was my dad's girlfriend at the time who was like, she shouldn't be allowed to listen to that. It's Blink 182. They swear that.
00:53:36
Speaker
Oh, yeah. One of the articles I read had the girl she's like, Yeah, the stupid parental advisory stopped me from being able to buy that Blink 182 album when it came out. It's like, Oh, the early ones. Yeah, I can't remember which one it said. Yeah, all the small things. It's on it, I think. Yeah. And like, it's like I had already been given it for Christmas or whatever.
Satanic Panic's Lasting Effects
00:54:00
Speaker
And then she was trying to make it so I like couldn't like listen to it. That's why she thought she could have a say. But
00:54:08
Speaker
He's not with that girlfriend anymore. Call out. Yeah. Screw you, Millie. Oh, snap. We got the name out of her.
00:54:22
Speaker
And a lot of this is like, or this is, I guess, the last thing about the 1980s is that horror films actually saw a huge increase in popularity. Pat could probably start an entire podcast about horror movies in the 80s. Hell yeah. Oh, my God. I love more movie podcasts.
00:54:44
Speaker
Yeah, some of them even themselves jumped on the satanic panic bandwagon and featured storylines involving people being influenced to kill by playing albums or songs backwards. So even the horror movies of the time jumped on the bandwagon. Yeah, like has anyone ever been able to find anything that's ever been hidden in a song actually? Um,
00:55:11
Speaker
I don't know. I've seen albums they've done recently. I think one of them was like Jack White. He did one recently where it's a hologram actually when you play the album, it like appears above the album. It's like insane. You can you can Google it. It's it's like a little like couple centimeters tall and it like appears above the fucking needle. It's crazy.
00:55:37
Speaker
I don't understand. I barely understand how records work themselves. I don't understand how they can have in one groove with one needle have like the music and the lyrics and have all of it be clear. It's sorcery to me. And that's why I collect them because I sit there and I just go, whoa, like the whole time. I'm like, I don't know how this was possible.
00:56:04
Speaker
And they say it's one of the best ways to hear it, right? And then we went to weird little tapes and then we went to weird little CDs, which just look like tiny little records, but would skip all the fucking time. Yeah. Now we're going back to albums where you just stream it, like vinyl where you just stream it, right? And the backwards stuff is, well, it's funny too, because I was listening to a podcast the other day where
00:56:27
Speaker
they played some stuff backwards and had the other people guess it. And some of it was from, it was like seen from like Ghostbusters. And one of it was like a wrestling match and you could tell it was wrestling, but the other stuff, it was just, it's so warped and stuff. And the one guy was like, that sounds like Dan Aykroyd. And I was like, what the fuck? How does he know that? But then- Yeah, that's really weird. Yeah. Yeah. It is weird. I, we should do it sometime if I can figure out how. Yeah.
00:56:56
Speaker
Yeah, I don't have too much left. Just kind of like more things that's happened since Satanic Panic. Most of it died down in like the 1990s, but music continues to be blamed and artists still find themselves involved with many controversies.
00:57:17
Speaker
um one of the biggest was actually with like Columbine the shooting um that happened Marilyn Manson was blamed for that because the two boys were like huge huge Marilyn Manson fans. I thought they tried to blame the movies for those ones too yeah probably yeah because we talked about um with the natural born killers and yeah all of those ones all getting blamed for yeah
00:57:46
Speaker
different crimes. It's like oh my god. Last thing I wanted to mention is that even today there's still like a lot of controversy for artists who use sort of like occult imagery with specifically people of color and like queer artists facing more intense scrutiny or backlash than maybe some other artists do.
00:58:06
Speaker
Some of the ones that have happened recently, even just the last few years, was Doja Cat. She was accused of promoting Satanism with her album, Scarlet. She had multiple songs about
00:58:20
Speaker
calling herself the devil because she's like dressed in red and she had all these music videos about it and stuff. And then other artists such as Sam Smith and Lil Nas X have faced backlash over certain songs and like performances that they've done within like what probably the last two or three years. I think Lil Nas X even lost like that Nike deal because they were red and people were trying to say they were
00:58:49
Speaker
devil's shoes or some shit. Oh my god, wow. Yeah. And then Sam Smith had that Grammy performance or something that people really didn't like. No, I haven't. Sorry, I hadn't heard that. Yeah, that's crazy.
00:59:06
Speaker
And then a lot ends up going against like hip-hop artists like Tyler the Creator, Big L, and Kendrick Lamar, who have also faced a lot of criticism over their songs. A couple of them had done songs. What was it? It was like...
00:59:24
Speaker
They basically have like even just a one off line saying like they're the devil's son or something is enough for people to be like stirred into a frenzy over it and like calling them out and all this stuff. Oh my god, Metallica is new. Yeah.
00:59:40
Speaker
newest album, or one of the last album has one that's called If Darkness Had a Sun. And it's like, if darkness had a sun, here I am. Like, that's literally the lyric. Yeah. So funny. They're just like, you think it would have gotten better. Like people would be like, fuck, if you don't want to listen to it, don't listen to it. But it's just as prevalent. Like really, in regards to music, I feel like it is for sure.
01:00:07
Speaker
Yeah, maybe there's still some old generations that need to die off before we have some haters gone. Maybe. Yeah, that's what I got. I'm sure there's little off branches that could have kept going and going, but yeah. One of those topics, yeah. Very cool. Interesting. Yeah.
01:00:36
Speaker
I probably wouldn't have thought to do music, but I really enjoyed it. I like music. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if I would have thought of that as a specific angle either. Yeah, it was good. You have to have to tell Pat thanks for the recommendation and the episode topic because it's really cool. Yeah. Yeah, I liked researching it. And that's that reminds me of like saying how the Japanese true crime was one of those ones where it was like,
01:01:04
Speaker
Oh yeah, it was something maybe we wouldn't have necessarily picked a researcher. I picked something I wouldn't necessarily have thought to do, which was what gangsters. But that can be like really fun to research something you don't know much about. Yeah. Damn. Well, we'll be back for part two. Yeah. Are you looking for your next true crime podcast? Do you crave stories that have mystery and suspense?
01:01:33
Speaker
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01:02:01
Speaker
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Speaker
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01:02:37
Speaker
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01:03:06
Speaker
Blast off. Part two, part two. Yeah. We can get right to her. Part one was fun and done. Is he being good? I think if I pet him, he'll probably be okay. You were at work and then you didn't even come home.
01:03:34
Speaker
I went to the parents right after and then I left there and came home and fed him. And then. Yeah, I only. Oh, sorry. No, that was it. Oh, yeah, no. Even if I just I only went out to get like gas and a couple of things and the dog still gave me kind of the business when I got home with the big howl. Like, where were you? She's funny.
01:04:02
Speaker
Gordo's fine. He just snaps during the day when I'm not home. That's cute. I like the kitties.
01:04:13
Speaker
All right. Well, part one is done. And we're back. Yeah. I don't know if you're ready for my case. No, it's most I don't know. I, I'm excited. I'm ready to learn. Yeah, you're set some good learning. And then yeah, we didn't have much.
01:04:38
Speaker
overlap except for that one spot where I said, I'm going to elaborate on that one. I have some more. Yeah. I'm happy it worked out that way when I was doing my notes. I thought a few things maybe you would end up talking about. So I came across the Ozzy Osbourne on an interview by Geralt over a beer or whatever. I do remember. Yeah.
01:05:03
Speaker
Well, I think I was going to put in a quote and then I thought, oh, she'd probably talk about it. So then I just, I was like, I have enough. It was the gift that kept on giving. Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting. A lot of stuff I didn't know. You just hear it mentioned and I didn't know how close to home some of the origins would be like, uh, that one major catalyst would come out of Canada. That would be.
01:05:34
Speaker
That would be the book that you mentioned. So we'll get to it. Oh, that was Canadian Oko. I didn't know that. It was. Go us. Yeah, fuck. It's like when people say, explain something from like sometimes and then listen to like Australians or whatever and they're like, oh, that word means like this for American listeners. I'm like,
01:05:57
Speaker
Hey, we don't get it either. Don't forget about the Northern North Americans. But everyone does. It's fine. It's fine. We're not mad about it. I was going to say, she's not bitter. No, but Pat's always like, you hardly ever see Canadian flags when they show different military representations from different countries.
01:06:23
Speaker
in like a war room and like the movies or whatever. So he's always very happy when he does see Canada represented that way. I guess I never noticed. I never thought to look. We have pretty good military, but like, yeah, not everybody knows that, I guess. I don't know. I just remember people used to joke that there was more submarines at West Edmonton Mall than the Canadian military had.
01:06:51
Speaker
because they used to do those little submarine underwater tours at the mall. The mall had like four submarines and the military had like two and it was like, okay. Like mini submersible. Yeah, it's like four people.
01:07:11
Speaker
I think people do like to joke about the Canadian Army, but we'll have to see what my sister in the Navy has to say about that one. She's been on a lot of big ships and probably a submarine too, but I couldn't do that, oh man. Imagine living in the sub. I don't know why we'd have need for a lot of them up here, but you never know. Why? I'm not claustrophobic, but the thing about being underwater gets me.
01:07:41
Speaker
Yeah, a lot of things can go wrong. Yeah, and I'm a decent enough swimmer. I don't know what my thing about it is, maybe just the water coming in or the pressure. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. That movie with Christian Stewart where she's working at the bottom of the ocean.
01:08:09
Speaker
really terrifying i can't remember what it's called it's just like one word like deep or something i think it was literally just called underwater i remember something simple yeah not too long ago yeah it was pretty good that messed me up too i'd watch that again all right so but other on to other fears yeah um yeah obviously people have a lot of things to say about music and different bands and
01:08:39
Speaker
different games like D&D and things like that. I thought you might talk about D&D. I know that was a big thing. Yeah, I don't have much. Honestly, I could like, I think I might probably mention to you off air that I can think of probably a few cases that true crime cases where people were like, maybe just under suspicion more because they were like fans of D&D or fans of metal music combination of these things.
01:09:10
Speaker
Well, um, yeah, but yeah, there's, there's a lot of that for sure. Um, but there's a lot of this other stuff too, which comes out of a bunch of other places, which is like daycares and preschools. So that was a big, big part of it. So I, so I've come to learn. Right. It's really scary when we,
01:09:37
Speaker
get into it, because it's just like, it'll start with like one little kernel of suspicion, like from one child. And then snowball, such as in this one, the McMartin preschool case, which was out of a place called Manhattan Beach, which was in California, confusingly. Oh, yeah, appropriately named, I guess, for not being in New York.
01:10:06
Speaker
I'm glad I didn't just assume it was. Yeah. But anyway, yeah, that one was shocking and devastating. It started out with just one small child who was complaining to their parents. They, I guess they were a little constipated or something and they were having some painful bowel movements, which I mean, if you're a parent, you probably, I've experienced that with my child if they're not
01:10:32
Speaker
drinking enough water and stuff when they're little so but I don't know so this four-year-old says some statements that make his parents suspicious that he's being abused okay it's confusing why those two things are connected but
01:10:58
Speaker
basically he apparently names one of the like leaders of the daycare in hurting him and being part of whatever like bad stuff against him and then another child said that one worker flew through the air
01:11:18
Speaker
some of it's pretty wild so it's pretty crazy how levitating her head spins all the way around like the exorcist yeah and then other crazy stuff but then they like it's taken seriously yeah I mean if it was your kid and they started saying stuff you'd want to believe them right I feel like
01:11:45
Speaker
You would never think your kid would lie. You wouldn't want to think your kid would lie. Right. I wouldn't want to think Gordo would lie to me. Yeah, I had something to say. Yeah, but also like three and four year olds, they hardly know what they're saying. They say some wild shit sometimes. I can't wait for Rudy. She says something.
01:12:14
Speaker
crazy stuff right now she's starting to talk more i can't wait until it's just nonsensical sentences and you see parents sometimes when you're out and the kid says something the parent just goes yep and it's like did you understand what that was yeah no idea what that kid just said to you but they're yeah with their little lisps and their baby talk and the way they yeah and and then and then and then
01:12:44
Speaker
Maybe you'll have some past life regression statements. You never know. Maybe. You can say some spooky things. Oh, I hope not. It'd be so creepy. It would creep me out. Yeah. I don't remember listening specifically for anything like that, but then she would just say like stuff that like potatoes were spicy and things that just didn't really make sense. I would just try to jot them down or try to remember it. It's like a teaser later.
01:13:14
Speaker
You know, now that she's older. Yeah, we tell Rooney that pop is spicy water. Oh. Or spicy juice. This juice is spicy because it's carbonated. Well, Rains never liked pop. Maybe it is a little too spicy. A little too effervescent. Too buble. Too buble. Too buble to play. Yeah.
01:13:43
Speaker
There was a source that mentioned Sigmund Freud, that guy, who apparently said something like, believe the children, like, as in like, always believe the children. Believe all women, you know, that guy. Yeah, I think there's some stuff that we can say he was wrong about. Yeah.
01:14:08
Speaker
Yeah. And then there's always stuff that's like misattributed from people as what they believed and things like that, which is a whole nother kettle of fish, but interesting. And nonetheless, um, I forgot what I wrote here. And it was, uh, you ever see that movie? There's a movie called invention of lying with Ricky Gervais. Yeah. Yeah. And it was.
01:14:38
Speaker
It wasn't that it was super bad, but me and Pat took to calling it the invention of montage because they leaned heavily on montages from what I remember. I don't remember much about that movie. I think I watched it nearer to when it first came out and then never again. Yeah. And that would have been probably some years back now. Yeah. But it's Ricky True Face and he's like a man and he's the only one that knows how to lie in this world for some reason.
01:15:07
Speaker
Yeah, something like that. Which is crazy. Yeah, because then he's like, oh, I can make anyone believe anything because no one knows that anyone could be untruthful. And it's just like, I don't know, I thought I guess I thought it was a similar slippery slope. Yeah. If no one could lie, who could we tell who was lying? Yeah, you can't believe anybody at all costs, just without looking at the evidence in each cases. But
01:15:35
Speaker
They didn't know as much as we do now, I guess. Unfortunately, the preschool had no previous training or anything to deal with this and simply were likely just not equipped to deal with any abuse allegations made to them. So what they did was make a mass letter
01:16:03
Speaker
What year did I say this was? Email, I don't know, like, oh, no, 80s, right. Letter to the parents. And it was like, if you guys know of any abuse, like ask your kids if they've had any abuse at the school because we've had a report and we want to know if your kids know anything. So, okay. That's a little weird. That's kind of what they did to get the parents to like kind of interview their own kids, which was,
01:16:33
Speaker
not great in the end. To say the least. Quite naturally, one might assume now, but that people started seeing signs of possible stress and trauma in their children. Signs like bedwetting, picky eating, and bad behaviour. It was a pretty standard three and four year old behaviour.
01:17:03
Speaker
Right? It's just like, they're kind of, it's like when you hear about symptoms of a condition or something that you're reading about or hearing about, you immediately think like, well, I could, I could have that or like, suddenly. Yeah. Like a confirmation bias or something. I don't know if that's the right word, but yeah.
01:17:25
Speaker
you're looking for it so you see it. Other schools had similar problems. There was the Keller's Daycare run by Fran and Dan Keller in Austin, Texas that had some really wild accusations made by some of the children. They mentioned it briefly on the You're Wrong About
01:17:52
Speaker
podcast episode I listened to, but then I, when I came across it again, um, and then another source, it was like just cutting up babies and throwing them into pools and making the kids swim in them. Wow. Yeah, that's very dramatic. Yeah. And then also they, they went to a local, like, um, it said like park, but like,
01:18:16
Speaker
Zoo, I guess, Animal Park, because they stole a baby gorilla and kidnapped that for a ritual and just cut off its finger and took its blood for some reason. Okay. What kid is making up those lies? Those are crazy lies. Yeah, that's real, real dork. Um, but you know,
01:18:44
Speaker
Yeah. As several sources pointed out, it's not like they went looking for any missing gorillas to try and verify that. Or like babies that were cut up into the pools or whatever they said. Yeah. Oh, there's a lot of like, oh, like I should just put like a blanket trigger warning maybe at the beginning of my thing. Maybe I'll insert one later. You should know what's coming, but there's a lot of like animal and
01:19:13
Speaker
alleged child abuse claims. Yeah, I think that's kind of given. It's very satanic. Right. We don't, yeah, usually get mad at them for baking cookies or whatever it is people think that Satan is. Yeah, Satan worshipers too. Oh yeah, so this one I had a
01:19:39
Speaker
There was a further quote about the Keller case in Austin. The fuse was lit in August, 1991. So this is a little bit later on, but still happening. Yeah, I was alive for this. I wasn't. So when a three-year-old girl on the way to a behavioral therapy session told her mother
01:20:02
Speaker
that Dan Keller, which was the daycare guy, had spanked her at the preschool, or the preschools guy, sorry, at the preschool he ran with his wife in Austin. The girl told the therapist that Keller had sexually assaulted her, another trigger warning, using a pen and pooped and peed on my head. I'm so sorry. It just goes from one extreme to like the most infantile,
01:20:32
Speaker
sounding thing you know it's just like oh my god damn not that people aren't into piss play whatever you call it golden showers not here to yuck your yum but uh yeah pedophilia not cool
01:20:52
Speaker
In subsequent months, two other children made similar claims about the Kellers. By the time the couple went on trial in November 1992, the allegations were significantly more lurid and involved allegations of ritual abuse, murder, dismemberment, and animal sacrifice. Yeah, that seems crazy. Right. You're like, oh god, did the kids talk together? And then
01:21:18
Speaker
you know it starts catching being almost contagious like one person says something so then the other kids feel like well maybe maybe I misremembered or maybe I should say something so this is crazy they were sentenced to 48 years in prison in 1991 even though the girl recanted her story as untrue in court the first little girl I guess
01:21:44
Speaker
Okay, she did it that soon. That's good. It wasn't like decades later being like, I lied. Yeah. Damn. That's the thing too. Like these poor little kids are their own victims being like asked about these things and talked about these things in completely unhealthy, awful way.
01:22:07
Speaker
Yeah, so that's really horrible and so is the rest of this. Well, it has a happy-ish ending. They served 21 years of that sentence released in 2013. Yep. They later said they felt like it was a modern-day Texas witch hunt.
01:22:30
Speaker
Yeah, like I can I can't imagine one day just like going about my business, whatever. And then somebody just accuses you of like witchcraft and sacrificing babies and stuff. And suddenly you're in prison for 20 years. Oh, hard evidence at all. Yeah. And the word of a literal child. Yeah. That's it's not good. And like it took till 2013 to get those guys out. 2013 seems
01:22:58
Speaker
Late to me like I feel like they could have done it in the early 2000s I Mean but that yeah, they got sentenced in 91. That's crazy. Yeah, I know and like look how long people spend even after it becomes obvious that like Take a long time to get out, right It seemed as people learned about the possibilities of child sexual abuse and
01:23:27
Speaker
nefarious activities like traffic, et cetera, things that we now take for granted. No, it's horrible. But no one could believe really that it could happen at home, I think was the thing. So yeah, they were everything kind of points to people being like,
01:23:49
Speaker
You know, normal people couldn't possibly do this. It couldn't possibly be usually like a friend or family member. So certainly it's got to be someone like a Satan. Yeah. Yeah. They're like distancing themselves from somebody's game, right? Yeah. They're starting to hear about this. I wasn't early nineties and stuff when there's in like nineties, when we start to get the 24 hour news cycle where you're like,
01:24:18
Speaker
you have the internet and stuff you can be hearing about horrible headlines and clickbait and stuff like 24 hours and true crime cases start getting all this like coverage and trial by media it's a whole mess. I've had enough of your shenanigans.
01:24:49
Speaker
you're a catastrophe okay just leave it he's trying to shove his legs into the Kleenex box behind the computer okay that's not a box you can fit in too buddy yeah you can't fits or sits oh my god oh Gordo no you can't fit in there and
01:25:15
Speaker
People can't fit into a tiny bottle. But I was listening to a podcast thing where the people of London were like going to go to this show where a guy was going to apparently squeeze himself into a tiny bottle like one of those little ships they build. Oh, no. And then nobody showed up and they were like, wow, people are gullible. I love stories. Anyway, history be crazy.
01:25:48
Speaker
as we're talking about now. So crazy is history, even recent history. So what's arguably sometimes worse, I mean, they both really suck, but is the real crime cases that tend to get mixed up with the rumors of rituals,
01:26:04
Speaker
and the moral panics that then lead to more wrongful convictions and create more victims while detracting from the first set of victims also. It's a horrible cycle. Yeah, because they're focusing on the wrong people. Yeah. There's a big case that came up and was mentioned a lot when I was doing this was the one that called the West Memphis Three. I don't know if you heard of it.
01:26:34
Speaker
I think I'd heard. I think it came up a little bit in mind. Briefly read it, but because it didn't involve like music, I didn't want to do like read too much about it. No, and it's just like, I don't know if you would have heard of it. It's kind of, um, but you know, bigger case in the true crime.
01:26:57
Speaker
yeah or whatever uh is that the one they did on was it netflix or prime it was called this how they see us was that the same one i think they do have a documentary don't know if that's what it was called i don't have that written down but um i like listened to a podcast about the case and i was like oh okay i think i've kind of heard of this but it's really
01:27:28
Speaker
very deserving of its own telling or episode or whatever but it's I know it's like basically the one where there's three young boys that are found brutally murdered in west memphis and then
01:27:42
Speaker
There's three, like older, like teenage slash on the cups, but being young men, boys, like guys who get accused of doing the deed. And then they like basically don't look at anyone else. But all they have on these guys is their interest in like one Wicca, two Dungeons and Dragons and three Metallica. So I'm like, lock me up. They cover all the bases, religion, board games and music.
01:28:13
Speaker
Oh my god, fucking evil tabletop role-playing games, oh no! They've got dice with many sides! What would they think about exploding kittens? And oh god, what would they think of cards against humanity?
01:28:36
Speaker
The one that's... Depraved. Daniel Radcliffe's Delicious Asshole. Isn't that one of the cards? Too funny. Oh my gosh, he was great in the Weird Al movie. I already mentioned that, didn't I? Sorry. Yeah. In part one. Yes. Okay. I don't know what else we've watched lately. Other things that I can think of now.
01:29:08
Speaker
I'm watching a good miniseries on Netflix. It's one of the ones adapted from Harlan Coben. He's like a thriller writer. There's a bunch of them on like Netflix. There's one with Dexter. Anyway, they're all good. Yeah, we can't talk about the satanic panic without mentioning, or I should say mentioning again, the book, Michelle Remembers. Can't forget about Michelle Remembers.
01:29:39
Speaker
Remember to forget. Remember to forget.
Impact of 'Michelle Remembers' and Misinformation
01:29:44
Speaker
This book is straight out of British Columbia, Canada. Boo. Boo that it came from Canada. Yes. I was like, what? This is our neighbor to the west. Yeah. From like Victoria, BC, sleepy little beautiful town. And as you mentioned, it was a
01:30:07
Speaker
doctor, Dr. Larry Pazder and his patient-turned-lover, patient-come-lover, no, Michelle Smith. It came out right in 1980 and Dr. Larry was a psychiatrist practicing in Victoria, BC who met Michelle when she went to him following the stress and like depression after a miscarriage, unfortunately, so. Okay. That's how they met.
01:30:37
Speaker
But as they go over in this new documentary by BC boys, Sean Harler and Steve Adams, Satan wants you. They found out it went a little sideways after that, shall we say. She was married at the time that she started seeing him. And then the sessions were a little weird. Like one thing I read said she just like primal screamed for like 20 minutes in one session, one time. Wow.
01:31:10
Speaker
Do you want to be in the office next to them? No. I hope there's a soundproof room. I feel like that's only something you can do in the outdoors and not look like a maniac. Do it in a forest or on a canyon or something. It literally just made me flashback to we were rewatching NOPE.
01:31:37
Speaker
that tech guy gets out there to help them set up the cameras and stuff and all of a sudden he's just like being weird then he just like screams and they're like dude like the horses and he's like oh sorry i'm just like real stressed he was like my girlfriend broke up with me i don't know what he says he was such a he's the ancient aliens loving dude yeah
01:31:56
Speaker
It was pretty funny. I was like, they always make ancient alien people like the biggest losers. I'm like, thanks, guys. Yeah, it was cool. Yeah. That's a good movie. OK. So yes, she's being treated for depression. And then he somehow goes to helping her recall her repressed memories.
01:32:25
Speaker
natural progression, I guess, I don't know. Yeah. But I'm not quite sure like it's very vague about his method, but maybe he just sends her into some sort of a trance or hypnosis or whatever. But probably, yeah, hopefully, that's all it is. But that's when the memories of her mother's alleged abuse begin. And you know what her mother's name was? Virginia. Oh,
01:32:53
Speaker
shocked and appalled and I'm so glad I got a good jitty for him up. So he's all there giving her all the recovered memory therapy, wink. And she is telling him all about how her mom gave her to a cult when she was five. And this is the first time she's remembering it, mind you. Okay.
01:33:16
Speaker
Not that I'm skeptical or anything. Well, we already said the book was debunked. Oh my god, is it ever such a bull honky? Baloney. Yeah. She details an alleged following 14 months of abuse, captivity, torture, ritual, murders, and baby sacrifices. They...
01:33:45
Speaker
also mentioned in this article about this documentary about it, Satan Wants You. And I didn't know where else to put it, but it's this instance where a daycare in Saskatchewan was accused of harboring a murderous cult. So they mentioned it in this CBC article because it's Canadian. So they're like, hey, we had this happen too. It's called the Martinville Nightmare.
01:34:13
Speaker
all these M names in them, they're all like Martinville, McMartin School, like, I don't know. But yeah, it like happened here, nine people were charged with like, no hard evidence. Yeah, quote, nine people facing nearly 180 charges with children saying they had been hoisted into cages, stuffed into freezers and forced to drink blood and perform sexual acts.
01:34:38
Speaker
uh only two charges neither of which were related to satanic ritual abuse were upheld on appeal so just like same bullshit yeah oh it's just crazy when you get into it like rabbit hole talk about the amount of cases like kind of yeah i'm sure there's like dozens and dozens right and it's all like it's all these little kids but then it's all like
01:35:08
Speaker
being found as unfounded. Okay, so back to the book. The book sales skyrocket, this salacious book with all the cultiness in it. They start toing around doing like the TV circuit on all like the talk shows, I guess. Oh, I hate them. Yeah. Yeah. They essentially become the experts on the subject unofficially. Fuck you.
01:35:32
Speaker
This had very real repercussions on the police's training and things, which I have a little bit on. Just craziness. The writer-director of the Satan Wants You documentary, he grew up 10 minutes down the road from where Larry and Michelle had their huge house overlooking the ocean.
01:35:54
Speaker
Um, which if you don't know much about Victoria, that means they're fucking rich. Like those houses in that area are like in the millions. Sometimes so much money off of that book. Yes, exactly. Oh, still alive and kick it now. But he said, like growing up in that area, it had a huge effect and.
01:36:21
Speaker
There's one scene from the book where Michelle is taken to the local cemetery. It's called the Ross Bay Cemetery. Yeah, cemetery, sorry. Where her mother and her followers, quote unquote, bury her alive before rebirthing her and giving her over to Satan in a ceremony.
01:36:42
Speaker
Lovely. Yeah. So that poor cemetery was constantly vandalized. Yeah. Yeah. And there was like an explicit rule never to go there on Halloween night, lest you be sacrificed or something yourself. Oh my god. I just hate that there's like, people that are actually victims, like especially kids of like sexual abuse and stuff. And instead people are focusing on like, these two that are lying and
01:37:12
Speaker
everything. You're right. Instead of cases get lost. Or using trying to use their experience from the book to like help the police force when they should be listening to the real victims and their experiences because that that's actually the best people listen to the victims and how to help in the future.
01:37:35
Speaker
yeah yeah and it's like seem to seemingly this almost bandwagon that yeah kids are like jumping on well if they talk about it on the news enough i'm sure if they're in the room they're just talking about
01:37:50
Speaker
depending how many details they go to on the news. Even the kids hearing about it on the news, could the next day just repeat the same story and be like, oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, this happened to me. And they're like, oh, not my kids too. And it's like, well, were you watching the news with your kid in the room the other day? And then the kids hear and understand so much more when you're talking than you think.
01:38:16
Speaker
smart little buggers yeah um yeah they uh so they spoke to many locals during the filming of the documentary um including Larry's first wife Marilyn uh who I didn't find much more about but I don't think she was impressed with the uh overall situation I would be pissed off yeah
01:38:44
Speaker
Yeah, I think she was like, yeah, that's bullshit kind of thing. But yeah, the book was being used to create checklists for law enforcement and mental health professionals to better fight and investigate satanic ritual abuse crimes in their communities. Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot. So according to this New York Times article that I couldn't access for free anymore when I was trying to
01:39:12
Speaker
source it and refer back to it. I was like, damn it. I'm like, I think it's this one. But it's not letting me read the whole thing. But I read it the first time. It's fine. It's fine. But they said it was also called sometimes the ritual abuse scare or the daycare panic. But those aren't as catchy, you know? Yeah. Doesn't rhyme. Yeah.
01:39:39
Speaker
not like panic at the satanic disco, oh no. Says Ken Lanning, a former FBI agent who worked on hundreds of abuse cases with the behavioral science unit. The evidence wasn't there, but the allegations of satanic ritual abuse never really went away.
01:40:06
Speaker
When people get emotionally involved in an issue, common sense and reason go out the window. People believe what they want and need to believe. Yeah, that's true, even today. Yeah, very smart for a FBI guy, I guess you'd have to be.
01:40:25
Speaker
Not like that dumb FBI guy. No, I don't know. And as pointed out by People Smarter Than Me, the book Michelle remembers praise and already existing fears and anxieties. Yes, and then I pointed out in that article, which shall no longer be named. As brought up when you were talking, the more that women were working outside the home and
01:40:51
Speaker
different traditions and roles were being switched and flipped. Yeah. People were using like using childcare for the first time and then feeling guilty and probably wondering about how their kids are being cared for while they're away.
01:41:06
Speaker
um yeah women were good at feeling guilty always yeah catholics you're catholic and a woman oh god no um but yeah it was all perfect conditions for this moral panic um yeah the one the one source quoted sarah marshall from the podcast you're wrong about which i thought was awesome but i know she's probably a journalist of
01:41:36
Speaker
some regard also it's a level above our my research for the podcast shall we say um but what she said about it was what readers heard was don't look in the mirror the call is not coming from inside the house the satanists are the problem yeah that's true yeah like the way she said it um but yeah it's simply so far from being true obviously we can never assume to know a case
01:42:06
Speaker
it plays out. Experts now realize that in some cases, like the Manhattan Beach case, the action taken was the worst kind of action you could possibly have taken, unfortunately. Like the mass letter to the parents to have them do the interviewing and
01:42:27
Speaker
yeah ask a bunch of toddlers to tell you what may or may not have happened in case the teachers they go to are evil bad people who might hurt someone else like how very confusing for the child and like in a kid's point of view even a daycare worker asking you to stop doing something or telling you to stop doing something whatever it could be that's mean and kids like sometimes blow stuff out of proportion or
01:42:55
Speaker
rebel against authority yeah they were evil and all this stuff they're big so mean to me i pooped and peed on my head and then put a pen inside me like do they even know those things are like severely different degrees of like do you know what i mean like they don't even know what sex is at that age like yeah that's that that's concerning at least for that kid like
01:43:24
Speaker
Yeah, you're like, how did you come up with that? But yeah, maybe something you heard an adult say, like, who's to say? So yeah, unfortunately, at the time, the FBI cops, lawyers, social workers were all sharing these books and different materials as training texts, share training texts, sharing all their findings at seminars and comparing all their notes.
01:43:52
Speaker
Damn. They actually passed around leaflets about symbols like the, it's called the cross of Nero and the horned hand. That's hilarious. The horned hand. Is that the Egyptian one? It's the devil horn. It's like the rocker horn. It's the horned hand. I was thinking of that one that's like that one.
01:44:22
Speaker
Oh, you get to do flat palms on one of them. I don't know that one. Okay. No, it has like the two like thumbs. It's like a thumb on each side and it's like curling out like that. Oh, I don't know if I know that one, but I was just like.
01:44:40
Speaker
Wait, it's got like the evil eye on it and stuff too. Oh, okay. Cause there's religious ones. Like the horned hand is not just something that like the rockers do. It's like, you know, people do it to ward off the devil. People do it to Claire and Outlander cause they think she's a witch. Like it's like super innocuous thing today. That's like so innocent. I don't know. But I also didn't like, I didn't know what the Nero cross was.
01:45:10
Speaker
yeah boy uh well i i i guess i know a little bit more now but you tell me this is what i could find the one site said occasionally maligned as an anti-christian symbol because it's an upside down broken narrow cross a satanic character or even a nazi emblem the iconic peace sign is apparently not so innocent to everyone
01:45:40
Speaker
So I think it's a peace sign. This was a very kind of tiny rabbit hole I fell down. Bear with me. This thing said, thankfully the symbol has a clear history and its origin is not so controversial. The modern peace sign was designed by Gerald Holton for the British Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament in 1958. The vertical line in the center represents, so like
01:46:09
Speaker
the piece sign that you draw, not like the one you put up with your fingers. That makes sense.
01:46:15
Speaker
The vertical line in the center represents the flag's semaphore signal for the letter D, and the downward lines on either side represent the semaphore signal for the letter N, and in D for nuclear disarmament enclosed in a circle. Okay. Yeah, so it was like- Sure, whatever you say. We came up with this peace symbol.
01:46:40
Speaker
but it was just basically also, they've referred to it sometimes as an upside down broken narrow cross. I was like, this is a nerdiest little rabbit hole. And I just, I don't know, were they just out looking for peace? Cause like in the sixties, right? Was that peace symbol not used all the time? 1958, okay, so I'm supposed to come up with like right before the sixties.
01:47:10
Speaker
And another website basically said the cross of Nero broken cross represents the hatred and persecution of Christians. Nero the Roman emperor from 54 to 68 hated the Christian people and crucified Peter the Apostle, Saint Peter. He didn't like Peter's as is. So all that to say they're looking for all kinds of symbols and I saw videos where they were like
01:47:37
Speaker
showing like bodies on the ground that had like um pentagrams and weird symbols like that but like oh weird all sorts of stuff they're looking for that i'm like did they ever even find any um sorry mouth is dry
01:47:59
Speaker
So some cops did kind of call bullshit on this kind of things when they were getting the seminars and stuff, but other ones kind of ate it up, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. And this one's kind of interesting.
01:48:16
Speaker
Uh, hopefully. In April of 1985, thousands of curious, angry, and confused customers were calling the corporate giant Proctor and Gamble about leaflets that accused them of using their profits from selling household goods to support devil worship. Oh, I think I saw that too in my research. Oh, suddenly.
01:48:38
Speaker
I mean it's so weird they're such like a household name yeah um they said it's all rumors possibly they started years earlier with scrutiny of their logo um i should have tried to find a picture of it excuse me apparently it shows a bearded man in the moon facing 13 stars or it did anyway but it was clearly a symbol of the devil and not a reference to the original 13 qualities
01:49:08
Speaker
Yeah, not at all. So then followed like a two decade campaign of them trying to clear their name, eventually ending with many court cases as recently as 2007. And them changing their logo that they'd had since 1882. Wow. Crazy. It's a change our whole fucking logo. I'm like, oh my god. Haters gonna hate.
01:49:39
Speaker
I guess then, going back a bit, in May of 1985, TV show 2020 ran a segment on Satan, or I guess Satan. Just on Satan. Satan, how he was doing. This is my crib. Come in guys, I'll give you a tour.
01:50:04
Speaker
This is MTV Cribs. Satan is wearing a big flava flave clock thing. Flanking my flave. Oh my god. The show talked about animal mutilations, rock music, and devil worship. Oh, and satanic graffiti. The graffiti? The graffiti tie? The graffiti toe?
01:50:34
Speaker
So much money was spent by the end of it. It's like 15 million on the McMartin preschool cases alone. Wow. I can't even imagine. Almost 200 people were charged over the course of the panic, dozens convicted. Many later freed, sometimes after many years. Yeah, oh my god.
01:51:05
Speaker
Yeah, it's crazy how like bad it was. I guess I just didn't realize. Yeah. It was so horrible. I didn't, like I would, it was expecting dozens of cases and expect like over 200.
01:51:20
Speaker
Um, in 2011, the West Memphis three, uh, guys were released and the Kellers who we talked about from Texas were that were released after 21 years were awarded, uh, 3.4 million from a state fund for wrongful convictions. Whoa. I'd be asking for a lot more. Oh my God. Your lives ruined. Your reputation's ruined, like. Yeah.
01:51:51
Speaker
I'd be like, I want a million a year for each of us. Yeah. Seriously. Those kids got to feel bad too, if they, yeah, anyway, it's not their fault. No, no, it's not because they probably don't remember you've been saying some of them. Yeah. And it said that some, it's like the kids apologize afterwards, but
01:52:20
Speaker
Yeah, like I don't remember anything I probably said before the age of like seven or eight. Right? Yeah. All I remember is probably when I was too old to have been saying weird things, I was lying in a cradle when my mom was working at King's Landing at this cabin at the far, far end of the site so people don't come to it a lot because it's a long walk. And it's like the last day before you start coming back towards like
01:52:49
Speaker
the door and everything at the entrance and stuff. And so I was like, my body in this little cradle with my legs hanging out. And I was like, I used to be silver, but now I'm green. Oh, yeah. I think you told me that before. I think it's gone into family legend is probably just the weirdest things I could come up with. But my brother used to say, if a dog and a monkey got in a fight, who would win? And so he said weird things too.
01:53:18
Speaker
All right. Well, we all know boys are weird. Oh, he loved last week's episode and he said, watch out. I'm going to do it to you. I'm going to prank you. No, the dog would go insane. Jesus. And I was like, Oh, but Jesus though. Oh no. If anybody sends me fake pizzas.
01:53:46
Speaker
or fake pizza delivery. I didn't order. Right? Pretty great. I would love a fake if somebody sent me a pizza as a prank. I'd be like, thanks for the pizza. Well, if they prepay it. I mean, yeah, I got no problem with this situation. I'll put in my order right now.
01:54:13
Speaker
Well, um, the one girls I listen to what the drinking the Kool-Aid girls, um, sometimes, uh, what, uh, Cassidy's got the, uh, what is it an Amazon wishlist you can have or whatever where people can see what you would like. And sometimes people just buy our stuff out there and she's like, well, thank you for it. I never did that. I was like, that's really nice. You have nice fans. That'd be cool. Hint, hint. No, I'm just kidding. I don't know how you make that public, but
01:54:44
Speaker
I don't know. Okay. DMS. Um, no. Yeah. Things to think about in the future. Yeah. Or like, I know some people have buy me a coffee, which is one where you can make one off donations. People don't want to join your Patreon. So if you guys would be interested in that, we'll start one, but yeah, you never know. Crimes and consequences have one. It's like, buy me a beer.
01:55:06
Speaker
I'm so down with people buying me a beer. So okay, to wrap it up here, a few more things. In 1992, the landing guy from the FBI put out an investigative guide on his skepticism of the claims, all the allegations and whatnot. It's good for him. Yeah, sorry.
01:55:34
Speaker
Yeah, he seemed like a smart guy. More, two years after that, the National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect said that roughly, that the roughly 12,000 accusations of group cult sexual abuse based on satanic ritual could not be substantiated. 12,000? So, so many.
01:56:01
Speaker
Yeah, I guess over the whole like decade, everything. Yeah, I guess what else? Some stories came afterward. Like I said, some were the kids who were victimized themselves and in all this. They mentioned something that I could not even bring myself to look further into on the one podcast because it was something called like the winking test.
01:56:28
Speaker
And it had to do with checking the children's spanksters to see if they had recently been sexually abused. But like, this is way before trauma and rape hits and stuff. So it's such crackpot. I didn't even, I couldn't even like Google that. I was like, I heard about it on the one podcast and I was like, this is crazy. Wow. That's like, anyway, yeah, there's just so much.
01:56:58
Speaker
sometimes abuse that goes on under the pretense of being, you know, helpful or whatever. Yeah. Victims. But, um, yeah, no, that's not, that's not up to you. Daycare workers and cops and. Yeah. Even that, I think if I was a kid would have been like scarring. Like,
01:57:27
Speaker
Oh my god. I'm just trying to do tests and interviewing you and everything about it. Even if it didn't happen to you. Yeah, you're a young kid. You're so impressionable. You're like accidentally putting them through those, you hear about those rough schools for troubled teens.
01:57:50
Speaker
Now they call it like troubled teen survivors. If you were like went to one of those schools, like Paris Hilton went to one and they would like, they like kidnapped people out of their beds to like the parents didn't tell them they were like going to those schools and the places would like come in and take them in the middle of the night. And then they would like wake them up in the middle of the night and just like, you know what I mean? Like do all these horrible things to them. And like those places, it's like, you're accidentally making a horrible,
01:58:20
Speaker
you know, environment while trying to make a better one. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Sorry about that, guys. That one's a little darker maybe than people even realize. I don't know. But at least a lot of it was unfounded, right? I mean, you're glad to know that it's not like it was real, but
Future Podcast Topics and Growth
01:58:47
Speaker
Yeah, it was definitely very damaging to everyone involved. Oh my god, yeah. I can't imagine. No victimless crime here. Yeah, so think twice before you propagate rumors. I don't know. Before you just say something that you see on a headline or whatever, because it might not be true. Yeah, exactly. It might be innocent people.
01:59:16
Speaker
Damn. Well, will next week be any better? Ah, we'll see. We're doing, I guess, a not super Valentine's-y episode, but it is gonna be, I guess, like, love-related true crimes, like lovers or...
01:59:42
Speaker
I might try and find a love triangle, fucked up love triangle or something. Yeah, maybe. Twisted romance. Yeah. What was I gonna say? Yeah, no, should be fun. I don't know. No, I think it'll be good. I haven't picked a case yet, but now that we got this one in the bag.
02:00:08
Speaker
There's so many. Oh, yeah. That's like most of true crime is like love motivated. Even if it's fucked up. Right. Yeah. And whether it's romantic love or like honor killings because you purportedly love your family so much that you know, I hate that. Yeah. Oh, I know. I don't know if I can talk about ones like that. They're rough. Yeah.
02:00:38
Speaker
But anyway, we'll find something and we'll find a way to make it lighthearted in any way we can. Sure. We'll try our best. They come here for the murders. All right. Well, in the meantime, keep it cryptic. Yeah. Bye-bye.
02:01:03
Speaker
Thank you for listening to Castles Encrypteds. We love all our listeners and appreciate every subscriber, every new review, every listen, rate, and download. Our music is by Cobie Affair and our cover art is by Antonio Garcia. We are also a proud member of Darcast Network where you can find the best and spookiest of all indie podcasts. Follow us on social media where we are at Castles Encrypteds on mostly all of the things, now including TikTok. Check out our bonus content on Patreon.
02:01:33
Speaker
Cryptic clashes, video mini-sodes of your hosts making asses of themselves, Ask Me Anything, quizzes, other special episodes, and more. Starting at just $2 a month, you can get one to two extra episodes depending on your level. We produce, edit, and research everything ourselves, and any support you can lend helps us to keep it cryptic. Well, all our long time listeners will
02:01:59
Speaker
definitely know that recording a podcast is not always easy.
Endorsement of Zencastr
02:02:05
Speaker
Nope. So you better believe when we find something we like that we're going to probably stick to it and not look for anything else. So yeah, that's one of the reasons why I love Senncaster. When we tried it, we were like, okay, finally, I wanted to have the video and it's what, up to 4K video, which is better.
02:02:29
Speaker
F-ing cool. I can see every pour on Kelsey. No, I'm just kidding. I hope not. But it's great video and like just really easy on this one. So like once we stopped recording on our our phones, I just I was like, yeah, this is the this is the one for us. So even though sometimes our computers fuck up,
02:02:56
Speaker
it always comes through for us in the end because we've never lost like a recording, knock on wood, and every time we've had to use it, it's just been really great and really easy and everything's just recorded when we wanted it to, which is, you know, it's a lot to ask for when you podcast as much as we do.
02:03:19
Speaker
Yeah, it's nice that each of us has our own separate audio recording that you can download and edit. So it makes when one of us is doing something or has something, it's easy. You can edit that out even with the other person was talking because you have two separate tracks that you can edit.
02:03:42
Speaker
Yeah, it's one of the reasons we love Zencaster. Definitely, it makes it a lot easier. And the audio quality is also a lot better than any of the other programs we tried using in the past. Yes, it is the best. So go to zencaster.com slash pricing and use my code cryptic and you'll get 30% off your first month of any Zencaster paid plan.
02:04:14
Speaker
We want you to have the same easy experiences we do for all our podcasting and content needs. It's time to share your story.
02:04:46
Speaker
Well, all our long time listeners will definitely know that recording a podcast is not always easy. You know, nope. So you better believe like when we find something we like that we're gonna probably stick to it and not look for anything else. So yeah, that's one of the reasons why I love Senncaster. When we tried it, we were like, okay, finally, I wanted to have the video
02:05:15
Speaker
And it's what, up to 4K video, which is pretty effing cool. I can see every pour on Kelsey. No, I'm just kidding. I hope not. But it's a great video and just really easy on this one. So once we stopped recording on our phones, I was like, yeah, this is the one for us. So even though sometimes
02:05:44
Speaker
our computers fuck up. It always comes through for us in the end because we've never lost like a recording, knock on wood. And every time we've had to use it, it's just been really great and really easy. And everything's just recorded when we wanted it to, which is, you know, it's a lot to ask for when you podcast as much as we do.
02:06:09
Speaker
Yeah, it's nice that each of us has our own separate audio recording that you can download and edit. So it makes when one of us is doing something or has something, it's easy. You can edit that out even with the other person was talking because you have two separate tracks that you can edit. Yeah, it's one of the reasons we love Zencaster.
02:06:36
Speaker
Definitely, it makes it a lot easier. And the audio quality is also a lot better than any of the other programs we tried using in the past. Yes, it is the best. So go to zencaster.com slash pricing and use my code cryptic and you'll get 30% off your first month of any zencaster paid plan.
02:07:04
Speaker
We want you to have the same easy experiences we do for all our podcasting and content needs. It's time to share your story. Keep it cryptic.