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176: The Mystical Occult
67 Plays2 months ago
What is the occult? It's the supernatural, the spiritual and mystical beliefs and practices. So it can be so many things, really. Which we love!
Kelsey covers an early tarot-researcher and occultist named Etteilla, from 18th-century France. He made significant strides in tarot card reading in his time. And then for something completely different!
Scent, memory and the spiritual side of fragrance use like incense is the theme of Alanna's segment. Some people believed that incense helped guide the soul to its final repose after death, and we discuss what makes bad "scent branding" and other strange tidbits.
Light a nice candle and enjoy the show, Cryptic Crew!
Darkcast Promo of the Week: And then They Were Gone
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Transcript
Introduction and Technical Hiccups
00:00:03
Speaker
but Okay, I guess we'll do it abbreviated in a pre-made intro in case. I don't know.
00:00:35
Speaker
Well, welcome back to Castles and Cryptids, where castles are haunted. The cryptids are cryptid as fuck, and the computers are a little bit cursed today. Yeah. I'm having issues. We just had a power outage at my house, and I yeah also am trying to charge my earbuds.
00:01:02
Speaker
the other one just just said to me that it needs oh my god please charge me it said that's the way damn i just put your charging base on the stand we're having the worst luck right now well we got our patreon recorded technically yeah
00:01:25
Speaker
Um, so that was good. But then when we started recording this episode, uh, all hell broke loose. Yeah. We did like a really nice intro, uh, a little like sneak peek of what we do on Patreon. And we were about to start my segment and then, and now Gordon was here.
Recent Movie Discussions and Patreon Content
00:01:49
Speaker
Yes. Yes. We just recorded some Patreon. yeah It was.
00:01:54
Speaker
Things. What were the things we were talking about? ah We talked about some movies we had recently watched and recommended a couple to each other. Oh, yes. I have seen some good horror comedies lately and also a few good. Yeah, we've watched some like suspense. We talked a lot about the Woman of the Hour, which was Anna Kendrick's directorial debut.
00:02:22
Speaker
So go check us out over on the Patreon.
00:02:29
Speaker
And I'm gonna see how far I can get with this earbud before it tells me to go charge it again.
00:02:36
Speaker
Or your power goes out again. Or mine goes out. Seriously? Who knows what's going to happen. Oh, I know. I'll hear people be like, they were like, we was just recorded three episodes today. I'm like, how? We like, we're lucky if we get through one without any issues. Anyway, we digress. We're not trying to complain. We, uh, we're just, uh, getting out there for you lovely Patreons and for you, ah you know, faithful listeners that you all are that come to us every week yeah for our new content.
00:03:11
Speaker
Kelsey was wanting to do something more occultish this week. yeah And yeah, we have I don't know. Now I can't remember anything what I said. I have no idea. It was great. Just imagine a really good 10 minute long intro and now it's lost in the abyss.
Diving into the Occult and Tarot
00:03:32
Speaker
I just and was like, I had to Google it because I was like.
00:03:36
Speaker
is everything a cultish occult and then everything that you look up is like it's ah so esoteric and we're like why is everything have to use the same word um but yeah so uh as i learned it can kind of mean anything supernatural which is kind of the way i went with it um and then kelsey said she was covering a person so now i'm kind of intrigued because i'm covering more of like a idea okay that's fun we got like two totally different things yeah um yeah i uh i thought it'd be interesting to cover like a person in history that was kind of like a well-known to do with a cult
00:04:34
Speaker
Yeah. Okay, they're associated with the occult. Okay. Yeah, very much so. I might have run across maybe their name before, but nothing that I really talked too much about. This. Okay, tell me the name that I might have to... Oh, sorry. Tell me the name and then I might have to listen and run and grab my other thing.
Jean-Baptiste Alliette and Tarot History
00:05:00
Speaker
Stupid headphones.
00:05:01
Speaker
It is, this is a pseudonym. So they wrote, oh published a bunch of books under the name Atelier or Atelier, I want to call it. Atelier about it. No, you did get to the word pseudonym because I feel like I mentioned that. I'm probably going to say Atelier, Atela.
00:05:27
Speaker
ah to you I felt the same way when I had to almost almost decide how to pronounce my last case's main person's name. But this is hard because I mean, it's technically their last name spelled backwards, so it's not even really a name. um And that's exactly how they came up with the pseudonym name.
00:05:50
Speaker
ah so We don't, do we need to go there? Cause we, my name spelled backwards almost has the word anal in it. It's not good. Okay. Two seconds. I need to make sure I get my other earbud but or we might lose this a lot. Okay. Does that connect again or do I need to connect it? I can hear you. Oh, okay.
00:06:15
Speaker
Okay. No, no, that's good. yeah So I think it's, I think the name is like Attila. It's E-T-T-E-I-L-L-A. Attila. I just keep picturing Attila the Hun. Yeah, right? Yeah.
00:06:38
Speaker
So this was a pseudonym that Jean-Baptiste Alliette wrote under. Alliette Jean-Dialouette. I got nothing.
00:06:54
Speaker
ah He was born a long, long time ago, way back on March 1st in 1738. Oh, damn.
00:07:07
Speaker
seventeen hundred 1700s. Yeah, he passed away December 12, 1791. And he was a French occultist. And actually the first to develop an interpretation concept for tarot cards, which is how the occult Yeah, which is why I thought you might may have Maybe heard a little bit about him before? Yeah, because I feel like we've talked about tarot cards a little bit in some capacity. Probably Patreon. Maybe? Yeah, I feel like guys I covered something to do with them. Maybe partly. Not a whole segment, but...
00:07:58
Speaker
I know, I somehow feel like I had to do research on them too, and I was like, wow, they're fucking old. And now I don't remember exactly why. Yeah, okay, I thought maybe you would know more about this. So that's cool. I've forgotten more than I ever know about anything.
00:08:18
Speaker
game
00:08:21
Speaker
oh my god He also helped spread knowledge about tarot to a wider audience, helped it gain more popularity. And he is considered to be the first professional tarot occultist known to have made their living by card divination. So that was like, ended up kind of being his main occupation, how he earned a living towards the end. He made it a thing.
00:08:48
Speaker
wow It's interesting. I guess very little is known about Eliot's youth. His birth certificate says that he was born in Paris in 1738.
00:09:02
Speaker
And so some of the information we do know is that his father was a caterer. And his mother was a seed merchant. So they were both like really- Caterer sounds like not that ancient of a profession somehow.
00:09:20
Speaker
And then I was like, what's a seed merchant? But I think they just obviously like sell seeds for plants and stuff. Right. Sure. Maybe from their own garden or something? Yeah. Yeah. Gator. You're not a baker?
00:09:38
Speaker
ah A candlestick maker? Okay. yeah In 1763, he married, I want to say, Jeanie Vatier.
00:09:52
Speaker
ah ti and Is this in France, you said? Sorry. ah Yeah, he's French. I think most of this is happening in France. Okay, possibly could have moved around in Europe, but we don't know. Okay.
00:10:10
Speaker
Yeah, I don't really have anything that says ah specifically about like where he is. There's just a lot of stuff about him like publishing his works in in French and that kind of stuff, but yeah nothing that actually talks about where any of this is happening. Well, and and to be fair, when they like just started printing things, like the space is so valuable that like you would only get the barest kind of information.
00:10:39
Speaker
It's like an outlander where they just know that probably Claire and Jamie died in a fire because there's one notice about, you know, their house burning down. That's not really a spoiler, but yeah. You're gonna get kicked off the desk again. sono It's like the age of like lack of information. I feel like now we're living in the age of like misinformation.
00:11:07
Speaker
Yes. Too much information everywhere. Gordo. ah Sorry. Valkoth. ah
00:11:19
Speaker
Yeah, so he gets married. I don't really have anything about it other than than that they're together for at least five, maybe up to six years before they kind of separate and divorce. Oh.
00:11:35
Speaker
And he worked as a seed merchant, just like his mom had during this time. So. Okay. Yeah. Like that, it's his mom's profession. That's interesting. Yeah. In 1770, he publishes his first book that's Most of the stuff I saw said it was titled a way to entertain yourself with a deck of cards.
00:12:09
Speaker
and ah sorry always oh wait Without the with a deck of tu cards, it takes on a whole new connotation. right, because his second book is also called a way to entertain yourself with a deck of cards, but then it has a longer title. I was like, Oh, so catchy. It kept getting confused because I'd be like, I'd see different dates for the two books, but ah and then I forget what I was talking about. I was like, the names are too similar, guys. Like, you have a long title and a long subtitle. Like, this is just not gonna work. Your publisher should have told you that.
00:12:45
Speaker
Yeah. Everyone's self-publishing then. Paying by letter, like make your, make your titles. Exactly. Oh my God. Yeah. So 1770, his first book, Way to Entertain Yourself with a Deck of Cards, explains how to use like a regular deck of playing cards. So like the 32 cards. Right.
Alliette's Legacy and Controversies
00:13:08
Speaker
Yeah. They were invented before the tarot card, I guess.
00:13:11
Speaker
Yeah, so like this still has like the clubs spades hearts diamonds, and then ace through six. Oh, and then I think I'm like six. Okay. Yeah, it was like a shortened deck. It only had 32 cards. And then i so it in his book, he like describes how to use that as um how to like
00:13:40
Speaker
like divine what your future or your past could be or what your present holds. um In it he actually described like ah spreads that people still use today and like disposition on the table and what it means and he assigned different meanings to each of the cards depending if it was in a regular or reverse position, um which is something that ah I guess isn't something that was being done before in any way like okay so before they just be like it's upside down fix it but he's like no no no if it's upside down it means the opposite okay yeah he like decided it had a different meaning so these types of methods are still used in tarot divination today
00:14:30
Speaker
yeah and they still call them like the different spreads the different like yeah and he invented like weighs you some of the different spreads that yeah none of this does not sound dirty the spreads the way you lay them i'm trying to describe that they hurt someone talking earlier about They were like, my grandma was really good at like that. That's what she said joke, except that she was British. So it'd be like, she heard something that sound dirty, like, oh, it should go in there and be like, said the vicar to the call girl. I was like, I love that. We need to make that a thing again. It's posh and British and amazing. yeah So sorry. In the fanny. yeah Oh, God, no, not the fanny.
00:15:22
Speaker
In the preface, he in the book, he explained that he learned the system from an Italian guy, um but it's unclear how much of the symbology he has assigned each card ah was his own or something he had taken perhaps from this gentleman, but he wasn't really credited, so we don't know who this person is. Oh, he took it from the gentleman.
00:15:47
Speaker
yeah This is Italian. ah Italian stallion.
00:15:55
Speaker
I guess. Oh, my God. I told you I was watching Grace and Frankie, right? Not to just totally credit and aside, but OK. Yeah, you're right. How so far are you? It's so cute. I'm obsessed with them. Oh, gosh. I think I'm on season like three or something. Like I'm in there. Have they started making their own lube yet?
00:16:17
Speaker
vibrators yes okay they start making lube as well it's so funny i love them oh my god amazing yes they yeah not sorry i not to derail it totally but they did a scene where they talked about a new girl they were like we were gonna do a scene like this but it was too much we're like uh Winston was having sex with his girlfriend and then like he goes to the bathroom and he like hears her um finishing herself off or whatever but they ended up not doing it on New Girl because I think it was too much and there's a similar one where like one of Frankie's kiddos uh I can never remember the black guy's name Bud maybe yeah and he has this weird old girlfriend kind of thing and and like
00:17:06
Speaker
But yeah, he goes to the bathroom and then she's finishing herself up and all he hears, like this weird. And then like, but she's like, what do you want to do? And the next thing you hear him doing the same like weirdo.
00:17:23
Speaker
I feel like I need to rewatch that show. I watched it during COVID because the world was depressing and I didn't want to be depressed. You kept recommending it. I should have listened. I decided to watch the most, I don't know, heartwarming and cute show ever. It's so cute. It's hard to describe how funny it is for people who haven't seen it. You're like, yeah.
00:17:52
Speaker
their older couple get divorced whatever but yes all like because the two guys ah decide to reveal that they had been secretly having a quite gay affairs for like 20 years and they're their wives kind of hate each other, have hated each other the whole time and then they kind of bond over the fact that both of their husbands left them and decided that they were in love with each other. True, but have they really been like cheating on them for that many years, do you think? Oh my god, I'm sorry. I'm so in the weeds.
00:18:26
Speaker
it's it's a long time they do flashbacks they keep dropping hints about like oh that little trip you guys took however long yeah and it's like the imply that they knew for a while and didn't have the courage to yeah come out you're right yeah god damn anyway it's so funny i love it i only started watching it because my mom told me to watch Okay, well June, the one who plays Brianna, her name is June Diane Raphael, and she and Paul, she or her husband are one, two of the co-hosts of that, how did this get made podcast that I listened to? And so she- Oh, she's so funny. Yeah, so when people will be like, oh, what do you guys want to plug this episode? She'll often be like, oh, Gracie Frankie's on. And I'm like, oh shit, yeah, you're right. And then I watched it. I was like, oh yeah, this is good. It's so good. I love it. Everyone's great. It's so cute.
00:19:21
Speaker
Great cast. Oh my god. Yeah, so funny. And it stays just as good like through the whole show. I'm like, oh, so cute. Oh, that's awesome. No, you don't get a lot of ones about older women and female friendships and stuff. So it is really nice. But it is. Yeah. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to like derail.
00:19:43
Speaker
um Okay. we're Italian style. and Right. So I guess the this first book was really popular um because it ended up getting reprinted even and then published the next year like into a like a second print. Damn. yeah say Not just self-published but published again.
00:20:10
Speaker
I guess during this time, Aliette was working as a print seller, and but he was making most of his money split between working as a consultant, a teacher, and an author. So he's got a lot of stuff going on, it sounds like. Part-time waiter. No. Actor. Okay.
00:20:33
Speaker
Uh, going into 1781, there was a French-Swiss Protestant clergyman and occultist, Antoine Court. Oh. Yeah. For kind of how far back they were. That's right. He's a part-time actor. Yeah.
00:20:57
Speaker
um So this Anton Kort, he named himself and he published a book which ah included an essay by the Comte Millet who he first called tarot cards the book of Thoth or Toth, and claimed that the Egyptians were the first to use the cards for fortune telling and divination. Okay, yeah, Toth, that guy's yeah an Egyptian god or something, isn't he? Yeah.
00:21:39
Speaker
yeah ah Yeah, so this was kind of like a reaction to um Aliette's book that he had done. This guy was like, oh, you said it. You learned it from like an Italian guy. Now I'm saying it's Egyptians. And they're kind of arguing about it.
00:22:00
Speaker
right um Yeah, so he that guy releases his book in 1781 and then 1783. Again, under the name Atelia,
00:22:12
Speaker
um Aliette publishes ah his follow-up book, way A Way to Entertain Yourself with a Deck of Cards Called Tarot. and There's the longer title.
00:22:25
Speaker
A way to entertain yourself with a deck of cards. Everyone else is like, with my own two hands. Oh, nevermind. I already know how to do that. With playing cards? Question mark. dr and That too. You know what? June Diane Raphael says always travel with a pack of playing cards. You never know when it's going to come in handy if you have to be waiting for something. Yeah, we just have cell phones.
00:22:55
Speaker
but We do. oh That's true. Yeah. And now you can play solitaire on your cell phone. So you know so yes. I like solitaire. Okay. I think it was the more the communal games, but yes. Right. Everyone's playing solitaire on the office anytime you're looking at them, looking at a computer.
00:23:14
Speaker
Sounds far right. So this book, this follow-up book ah published in 1783, is considered the standard reference work of tarot cardamancy or divination. And yeah, Atelier published his ideas of the relationship between tarot, astrology, and the four classical elements, earth, air, water, fire, and the four humors, phlegm, blood, yellow bile, and black bile.
00:23:44
Speaker
Oh, and right. All together within this book. Those ones are so gross. Yeah. I know I hated it. um And for some reason, it was really weird. For some reason, ah word did not like ah the word phlegm. It kept saying it was spelled wrong. And I was like, it is not. Oh, with the pH. Just, oh, it's disgusting.
00:24:10
Speaker
I was like, is it like L E G M or some weird no combination of letters? No, but it kept saying it was spelled wrong. I was like, what the heck? I had to keep ignoring it. It's like, whatever. I have to stop arguing with people sometimes. the There's a lady I work with who's like, does these book things where they, um, you can fold a bunch of book pages until it like makes a picture.
00:24:36
Speaker
I don't know how else to describe it. It looks cool. And she was like, oh, yeah, I was going to start working on yours. We were going to make one that said Sassanek, right? But the pages. I was like, oh, yeah. And she was like, but I was going to work at this other girls. And then she made me mad. And then she was like, and this is because of this. And I was like, oh, yeah, I also read that like people caught them shots because then the noises they made when they put the shot classes down on the table. And she was like,
00:25:03
Speaker
Yeah, but no, it's this other thing I said, like with the bullets and I was like, yeah, you're right. I'm wrong. Okay.
Recording Challenges and Future Hopes
00:25:09
Speaker
I just want to eat my lunch.
00:25:14
Speaker
Maybe people argue with you because you don't like you when people say other things. Just crying with you. Or add something else to the conversation. I don't know. I wasn't saying she was wrong. I was just saying there was maybe more than one origin to the term shot glass. Anyway.
00:25:33
Speaker
I digress. ah So in the book, he claimed that he had been introduced to Cardamancy back in 1751, long before that court de Giblin's work, where he claimed it was Egyptians. Okay. But in this book, he also included Egyptians and said they were the first to use tarot cards. So. Oh, okay.
00:26:02
Speaker
okay But people have researched at this point like today, and there is basically no evidence to support that tarot was formed in any way by Egyptians. But the steer this theory that they kind of started it is kind of like perpetrated throughout the next four centuries, even up until today. People are still talking about it.
00:26:27
Speaker
um That's interesting. I feel like maybe there is a lot we maybe misunderstand about Ancient Egypt. Yeah. We have such a fascination with it, but we we don't really know. Yeah. um But what is like recognized is this second book was the first book ever um to concern divination by Taro, like published, because it actually had like um it wasn't just about using playing cards to tell the future these were like specifically designed uh cards being used uh not playing cards at this point these are actual tarot cards that were like designed and created that had meaning uh that you used and what those names and cards were supposed to represent um yeah so this book that he does is the first ever one actually about like
00:27:21
Speaker
tarot as we kind of recognize it today. Sure. Cause like we have the five of diamonds and the ace of pentacles, but also you have the death card in the tower. Yeah. So that was the first one introducing all of those kinds of things and also kind of tied in astrology and everything to it as well. Cause different cards also represent a different astrology signs.
00:27:49
Speaker
Oh, yeah, that's right. And so there's maybe more of the major Arcana cards, I think. Yeah, I didn't get a whole lot into the Tarot side of it. This was kind of more sticking to the kind of work that Aliette did um himself. Oh, that but yeah, because there's so much like Tarot was like, obviously a long history. yeah Yeah, sometimes an interesting thing has kind of a long, almost boring history, so I totally get it. um Yeah, so that like book gets published and a few years later in 1788,
00:28:35
Speaker
Eliot formed a Society of Interpreters of the Book of Toth. And this was a group of French speaking correspondents through which they discussed his ideas about tarot interpretation, which was pretty cool. It's like forming societies. And then the next year,
00:28:56
Speaker
Uh, he published his own tarot deck. Uh, and at this point, like people had published the classic tarot deck, which is the, um, The Rider Waite tarot. Yeah. Um, that one, I believe had already been published. Uh, okay. Wow. It goes back a while. I think it's just like the illustrator name or.
00:29:24
Speaker
the the two people that worked on that one, I guess. Yeah, I do actually have like quotes from Waite, which is, and yeah, it's, yeah, he gets brought up, but it's not really great, I guess. ah Oh, that's funny. I know nothing about like the, yeah, the history of the official, I don't know, tarot people? ah what Yeah, it was really weird. They, they had opinions. They had opinions. Sure. I'm sure. Yeah. So this, uh, Aliette's deck, the tarot deck he releases is different from the classic tarot. It had a a bit of a different structure and card designations. Um,
00:30:14
Speaker
And it was a special deck that was tied to his ideas um with older forms of French cardamancy. So that was like the one going back to um like the playing cards and what they represented. I just love them calling it cardamancy.
00:30:31
Speaker
yeah things like yeah yeah any magic where you call it mancy at the end sounds so like dnd coded it's just so like a very fantasy land i love it uh and it was the first deck of tarot cards designed specifically for occult purposes which is pretty cool yeah yeah um and this one actually became very popular throughout much of europe i did find because it still is Um, it still is in production. Like you can order his original tarot deck. It actually looks pretty cool. I really, really like the death card in it. ah rhyme Yeah. Uh, so there's pictures of it on the drive or you can look up the Attila deck, the E-T-T-E-I-L-L-A deck. Um, but it looks really cool.
00:31:28
Speaker
Attila the Hun, but with an E. Okay. Got it. All right. The ET deck. Wait, where's ET? Phone home. No. Yeah. Like the the death card is pretty cool in it. um It's like a skull, like skeleton wearing the cloak with the like sickle or scythe, whatever you want to call it.
00:31:58
Speaker
And we were just watching Supernatural with the guy that plays death and that is amazing. Anyway. yeah He's creepy. So, so gaunt. Yeah. Yeah. So like this playing deck became very popular throughout much of Europe and the next year in 1790,
00:32:24
Speaker
Aliette founded the New School of Magic, um which started like, he was basically like teaching people about tarot and then they were kind of like continued discussing stuff and ah later that year he ended up publishing theoretical and practical course from the Book of Toth. ah ah It included his reworkings of what would later become the major and minor.
00:32:54
Speaker
Arcana, so he's the one that kind of like started that as well. wow yeah so cool and just i've still tried i was still looking at the little pictures you had put on the drive i don't know why i said little pictures that sounds demeaning but just to see one thing well it is kind of a collage of like um oh the yeah non like suited cards or whatever true when they show all the cards together it was hard to see the details but the one yeah you have the close-up of one that has like the death card it's like
00:33:27
Speaker
I like the death card yeah so yeah I was like oh god that's just that's just french that's just the french version that's the french mortality yeah it just sends so much more like um serious most of what I have for the rest of this was actually from taroharitage.com it was a really good article um that was released by Cheryl E. Smith. And oh my God, what was it called? I thought it was hilarious. Oh, uh, the actual link is called Tarot History Rant number five. um That's awesome. I had a funny article named too, I'll tell you. And it was just like, oh, this is really well like put together. I really like how she did it. So, okay um,
00:34:23
Speaker
Yeah, a lot of this information is from that taroharitage.com saying over the past decade, ah people have been spreading misinformation about Attila ah claiming him or calling him a hairdresser Attila.
00:34:40
Speaker
um And yeah, like apparently it's a whole misconception about him being a hairdresser and not like a seed bender or like a teacher or anything like that. That was a profession at that time? Yeah, a hairdresser I guess. Bizarre. They went on saying a lot of the misinformation can be traced back to there's Eliphos Levi, who wrote over 20 books on magic, Kabbalah, alchemical studies, and occultism. And then a second gentleman, A.E. Waite, who is British poet, mystic, and creator of the Rider Waite tarot. Okay, cool.
00:35:33
Speaker
Yeah. That's about him. Yeah. Um, so on the website, they said Attila bashing hit its stride in the mid 19th century. When. Oh no. Attila Bashing? Yeah. Attila Bashing. Uh, when Ella Fast Levi published statements like Attila or Alliette, an illuminate hairdresser, uh, or illumini, illuminy, I don't know what this means, exclusively engrossed by his divinatory system and the weird emolment he could derive from it, neither proficient in his own language nor the language of orthography, pretended to reform and thus attribute himself to the Book of Toth.
00:36:29
Speaker
to Oh, that might've been English, but none of it made any sense to me. I know. That part doesn't. The rest of this is a little more clear. I'm like, I think I'm smart. And then I hear something and I'm like, what? Yeah. Yeah. That was like the most confusing. I almost even thought of leaving that out. And I was like, I can't really because the rest of this continues. It was like. Fair enough. I was quoted saying that this guy published about him. Oh, yeah.
00:37:01
Speaker
Yeah, goes on saying this illuminated hairdresser after working for 30 years only succeeded in producing a bastard set. ah The keys of which are transposed so that the numbers no longer answer to the signs. ah The writings of Attila now very rare or obscure, wearisome and barbarous in style.
00:37:27
Speaker
oh It's like, oh, that was probably a pretty sick burn back in 79. ah yeah Yeah. Not too sure who's got a grudge against who. Yeah, but they kind of broke it down saying that as a result in the century since,
00:37:48
Speaker
ah Incorrect information has continued to spread. Some of it may have been classist as Alietta or Eliot had a clumsy writing style that kind of gave away the fact that he didn't really have a formal education and had a working class background.
00:38:09
Speaker
Um, he wasn't like a nobleman, like, um, the 80 weight and, um, that Levi guy were. And God forbid. What a peasant. Yeah, like he's kind of like a middle-class type guy, um, that kind of got in on this. So they're trying to say, Oh, he's just trying to profit. He doesn't actually like understand and he hasn't studied it.
00:38:35
Speaker
um He's just trying to like cash in on it. and Meanwhile, these other guys are writing like 20 books each about the subject and they're like, oh, how do somebody else have an opinion ah or try in?
00:38:50
Speaker
A second opinion. Contribute in any way. yeah um They also pointed out that at the time of Eliot's death, his death certificate was witnessed by two people, one of which was a master hairdresser. and then A master? yeah A master hairdresser. a Lord hairdresser.
00:39:18
Speaker
Oh, you know, you're um so funny. is that that i Remember when you we were at your birthday thing, your sister-in-law said something self-deprecating about her hair and I um laughed and then I thought, why didn't they say how lovely her hair actually looks?
00:39:37
Speaker
She's like, I'm glad the kid didn't get my hair or something like Oh, it's just because her hair is really like fine and oh like thin. she doesn't have And then our hair is like so thick. Well, she was clearly joking, which is why I laughed. But then after, I was like, oh, maybe I should have been like, no, your hair looks gorgeous. like What are you talking about? I know. You know what I mean? ah Yeah. Oh, that's funny. Yeah.
00:40:06
Speaker
So the, yeah, the death certificate is witnessed by two people, a master hairdresser. And monster yeah, Aliette's son, who was a grocer ah whose address was listed as the hairdresser's house. And somehow these hairdresser references got attached to Aliette or Aliette. Oh. Yeah, even though he himself like isn't a hairdresser, it's just like the people on the desert certificate.
00:40:41
Speaker
so um it's just like and Then they closed out the art the rant number five, ah saying that actually his family engaged in various food-related trades, as I said, and he started out as a seed merchant, later dealt in antique prints and imported tarot cards.
00:41:01
Speaker
but Oh, right. Okay. Yeah. Um, and just have a little bit more, um, under the name Attila. I never know how to pronounce this. Like what? Attila? Attila Hun. He continues to publish books over the course of the rest of his life about tarot, uh, about like card reading, palmistry, astrology, and other occult subjects. So he published like,
00:41:31
Speaker
Maybe 20 books or so. It's kind of crazy. And was that like the name that he wrote under? Yeah, it was like his it was his last name backwards. um because His last name is A-L-L-I-E-T-T-E. um So it's like literally that's why I'm like, I don't know how to pronounce. Like, because it's his name backwards. So difficult. Because it looks weird because it's his name backwards.
00:41:59
Speaker
um don't my last peters how did yeah i can't wrap up there what oh my god there was a challenge on the traders though were these little dolls were doing supposed nursery rhymes saying them backwards and everyone was like this is so like um twin peaks like it was a so creepy no thanks great yeah no they had to like then try and recreate the sounds it was yeah it was creepy but so fun
00:42:33
Speaker
oh
00:42:36
Speaker
and so ali yeah ah He popularized the use of spreads, reverse cards, and his divinatory meanings for the minor arcana are the base of the Waite-Smith system. so Even though Waite went off on him being like uneducated and all this stuff, he's like, but I'm still going to use your and interpretations and meanings and then build on those because I can't come up with my own thing.
00:43:03
Speaker
Ah, which I think is hilarious. Okay. Yeah. He doesn't want to give his former partner any credit, but at the same time would like to still capitalize on the use of his input or whatever. Yeah. He's like bashing him being like, oh, how dare this guy write about it? And then it's like, but I'm still going to use this ah use his stuff because it's so popular. He's like, yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. I'm not a hypocrite. Yeah, exactly. ah So 1791, the year he died, he released a cartomantic deck.
00:43:45
Speaker
ah which is commonly called Petit Attila, which I also have a picture of, and it's it's like the original deck of playing cards, um but like the regular playing card of it is like kind of a little bit smaller than on like then a typical card, and then there's like written meanings and stuff written on the card.
00:44:09
Speaker
um And it also, like, yeah, the meanings are written on them and directions how to use them for divination. So kind of like going back to using the original playing cards that people were used to and it's like, okay, well, like I know I have the tarot deck that like you can use, but here's that like transcribed kind of onto the original playing cards as well.
00:44:33
Speaker
um Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes you don't ruin the original card set or the new one. Like the one post I saw with it was like, Uno, reverse. But with this one, through the clear cards, you can see who has the Uno wild card or something stupid. Like it was just bad design of the card because like. I don't know. There were like some sort of clear card or something and you're like, it's not seen anything, but like.
00:45:04
Speaker
Yeah. We can see from the back what that card is. It was something stupid anyway. Yeah. My kid's really into Uno. I don't know. My dad and I used to play it constantly. This is a card game that's like, it's sort of modern, but it's lasted quite ah a long time already. Yeah, like probably almost 20 years. It's been around a while.
00:45:28
Speaker
What did I hear earlier? Yahtzee. Bet they didn't want to be named something that rhymes with Nazi.
00:45:40
Speaker
ah Don't even ask. I don't know. My brain. um Almost done. Yeah, so like how to use the original playing cards for divination.
00:45:52
Speaker
and again each card had a meaning upright and a different one reversed yeah and yeah usually it's like kind of a backwards meaning almost if it's reversed like which kind of makes sense yeah some of them when i was trying to fucking excuse you hi gordo um one of the cards said like uh that was funny though one sorry you just jumped in front of the camera for anyone you know that's on the podcast i can't see which is everyone yeah i was like everybody other than you but i immediately was like she's just trying to carry on even though that cat just jumped over her fucking keyboard
00:46:46
Speaker
Oh my god. Because he does it so often. It's like, yeah. Um, yeah, so the one of the meetings was like, lawyer, and then it reversed, ah was like, death and betrayal. And it was like, what? I was at the opposite of lawyer, like, um, yeah, so like, some of the examples they had of the upright and reversed meetings, I was like, I'm not really gonna get into some of them because it's like it it doesn't make sense to me yeah the opposite of this is this is it yeah wow uh yeah that's for another a day um yeah i heard about the opposite of postpone being prepone and i was like that is not a thing that we need to know about no one needs to schedule things earlier it's like
00:47:42
Speaker
i would think it's like proactive or something yeah i'd be like kelsey we're not gonna record at like eight tonight we're gonna record at like six and you'd be like what meanwhile like don't get home by that time yeah usually um yeah down so that's so weird that'd be yeah So ah yeah, 1791, he releases that deck. It's the same year that he dies at the age of 53.
00:48:19
Speaker
yeah right He died on December 12th, and he's regarded like as the world's first known professional tarotist.
00:48:31
Speaker
um Not terrorist, terrorist. It does sound. remarkably similar. I have to make sure I announce it. Yeah, which is kind of cool, like, because that's how he earned his living. um Yeah. And yeah, as I said, his tarot deck is still producee in production, like you can order it online. um It's by like
00:49:06
Speaker
grimod and france crate which one was he again rider or weight no he's not either of those guys oh shit you're right no moved on to the other one uh weight is the guy that didn't like him um he's the one that like his frenemy Yeah, it's weird because it kept saying like, yeah, they like generally respected him, but then they're bashing him, calling him like middle class and how his ah grammar is so bad and his writing is poor and he has no original ideas. And they're like, but then we're going to use your system and build upon that to do our system. lord Were they gay? Because it sounds like girls going after each other, doesn't it? So petty.
00:49:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Very patty. Exactly. Like I'm not saying yeah all those girls are like that because we, some of us have very beautiful girl where they should just worry, treat each other quite nicely. Like you and I do, but it was like, Oh my God.
00:50:12
Speaker
Y'all just throwing each other under the bus or like what is happening? Yeah, um I'd have to. Yeah, it sounds like the the Rider Waite tarot deck was like released after this, I think.
00:50:30
Speaker
Um, yeah, I think this was the first original one. Do you know the like time? I don't know the timeframe, but I feel like the one I have, it looks like it comes from like the 70s or 80s. It doesn't matter.
00:50:49
Speaker
yeah I'll look it up. It's like a really fun episode.
00:50:55
Speaker
oh It was released ah first popule published by William Rider and Son in Oh my God. it was like the the I don't know when the painting like the the illustrations or whatever for it. like the I have a copy of the Rider Waite, Rider Dash Waite tarot deck. It's it's ah the ah vibrant cards featuring full scenes and figures and symbols were drawn in 1909. Like they're very colorful. Honestly to me, I was like, it's from the 70s. Yeah, it could be from then. But like, yeah, it's got some earlier vibes too.
00:51:45
Speaker
um That's why I thought it was so cool. Attila's deck. Even his little petite one is like, it's so cute.
00:51:58
Speaker
um yeah reallyly Yeah, that one's pretty cute. um Yeah. But I thought it was interesting. I was like, he had a school of magic. I'd like to look more into that. And then he had like that. um Yeah, the new school of magic and he had the Society of interpreters of the Book of Tal.
00:52:25
Speaker
And it's like, damn, like what's happening on there? So far back, some of it goes. Yeah. Yeah. So like they were teaching students about like the occult and everything like that. And those people like carried on his teachings and everything after he died. And honestly, coolest thing about Hitler though, we don't like him, but he was interested in the occult to the yeah degree that a lot of, um, leaders I guess aren't, but oh well.
00:52:56
Speaker
didn't help him in the end but yeah he just wanted to like gain crazy superpowers or something but yeah that's probably what happens you try to gain those ah knowledge for you know bad purposes it shouldn't come to you anyway yeah oh that's crazy um occult you look up occult you look up esoteric yeah oh my gosh oh some of the stuff yeah and like when you suggested it and then i was like oh i don't know like there's i've been reading some books lately where they keep going on about things like reincarnation and stuff and then like some of that falls into it and so um yeah then i kind of ended up on that different path i guess and i was like oh
00:53:52
Speaker
This could be like a fun episode where we do two totally different things. I like that kind of thing. Yeah. I was like, I highly doubt Alana will stumble upon this. Oh my God. I can't even still remember what his name was, but yes. I know. I'm pretty sure I pronounced it slightly different every time I had to say it. Oh no. Yeah. Those things happen. You hear them pronounced differently.
00:54:22
Speaker
All right. Well, I guess we'll take a break. Uh, yeah, I don't know. I'm just kidding. I know. I can't record anymore. I work tomorrow. and I was like, yeah, we are getting kind of late with our, okay. So, okay. So we'll say that's good. And we'll, maybe that'll be our next week episode. I don't know. Or we'll do mine later.
00:54:52
Speaker
something because you work all weekend you said right i'm closing both days so opinion okay yeah okay we'll be able to record again until monday at the earliest okay yeah we'll figure it out okay all right well we'll be back yeah that's where we'll leave it then excuse me no okay We made it through all the issues. Yeah, we did it. We didn't lose the recording. No, we're lucky we got this much. Yeah. All right. Sounds good. I'll text you you then tomorrow.
00:55:45
Speaker
Hello, I'm Kona Gallagher. And I'm Ethan Flick. We're the husband and wife team behind the True Crime podcast, and then they were gone. We're a weekly show that covers unsolved missing persons cases. These are cases that you, the listener, can have an impact on. Some of the people you may have heard of, like Kristen Smart or Braceless Pisa, but we also bring you missing people of color and other cases that haven't gotten the mainstream attention that they deserve. You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Good Pods, or your favorite podcast app.
00:56:37
Speaker
The woman that ah directed it, I saw... I had previously seen a movie she had done a few years ago. It's called Revenge. Oh, okay. And it's really, really good. It's a girl she... I can't remember how long they have been seeing each other or whatever, but he has like a house that's kind of like an oasis kind of thing so it's pretty like barren desert and then you have to fly like in a helicopter basically to get to this house that's kind of just like in the middle of nowhere okay super remote yeah yeah and uh she goes there i think for like a weekend or something trip and then she doesn't know his friends are gonna be there oh and okay yeah yeah and then
00:57:35
Speaker
she one of the friends like assaults her like sexually assaults her and then they end up she tries to run away and then they're worried because he's like rich or whatever that they're gonna say something so then they hunt her down and then they think that like yeah she died and then she kind of comes back and like okay one by one yeah that's the feeling i seen this trailer yeah based on like a true story maybe oh I don't think so Wait, does she like fall off a cliff and get impaled on a tree in the trailer? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We saw that trailer. I was like, Oh, this, it seemed very familiar. So I wasn't sure if it was based on a true story or not, but Oh, have you seen that movie then? It's called Revenge. Oh, it's, it's not awesome. i watched it Yeah. oh god Yeah. You should watch it. That's like the first movie I think she did. Sorry.
00:58:34
Speaker
His tail looks like it's coming out of your hair for a minute. Medusa style.
00:58:40
Speaker
no that That was the first one she did and that one's really good. She just, ah that girl does not give up. Yeah, you should watch that one. That one's really good. No, we just, uh, it was a double feature yesterday. Yesterday I had been meaning to take rain to see the Sonic 3. She really wanted to see that. So we watched that and then After we got home from that, then me and Pat watched the substance and Ray was like, I'm good. I've seen some. And that was interesting. right I saw the first Sonic movie. I didn't see the second or the third one. Oh, gosh, I hadn't remembered seeing the second or the third one, to be honest. But I was like, oh, I love Jim Carrey. This is entertaining. Yeah, I heard they're good. Yeah, they are. Oh, yeah, they're entertaining.
00:59:31
Speaker
um I guess Ben Schwartz plays Sonic, and I didn't realize that. I was like, he's the guy from Parks and Rec. Don't be suspicious. He's suspicious. Because I think he was on, not WikiHow, WikiHole, the one with Darcy Cardin, whatever. Yeah. um Very good podcast. Okay. Have we started this yet? I don't believe so. Barely.
01:00:01
Speaker
Hi guys, maybe we cut in some of that banter. Maybe we didn't, but we are back for part two of, sorry, a cult episode. And Kelsey's cat is right behind her, flipping his tail, making it look like her curls have come alive Medusa style. It's still it's still amusing me, I'm so sorry.
01:00:25
Speaker
um but yes we have uh we had to postpone that one because we were having some technical difficulties yeah the power went out there was yeah i think we might have mentioned it in the first part because we definitely had to re-record the first part of your segment um after it cut out like 15 minutes in so that was fun but yeah oh god
01:00:53
Speaker
Hopefully that will happen again. It's hard to say. It's bloody freezing here in Alberta right now. So who knows? Absolutely. Yeah. ah Right? It's like almost minus 30 our temperature. And you guys know what minus 40 is Fahrenheit because that's when it converges and it's fucking cold as shit. Yeah. Freeze the nips off a brass monkey.
01:01:20
Speaker
okay Okay, so it's funny you said you want to do something a cult and I said, cool. And then I looked up again, what the hell is a cult exactly? Yeah, this is one of those terms that kind of I'm like, I know what you mean mostly. It's like esoteric. o And then I was like, okay, so anything supernatural, it's basically anything of a supernatural, mystical nature, unexplained. I was like, it's like, Oh, okay.
01:01:51
Speaker
Yeah, which is astrology? Well, I mean, for ah yeah, really, when I broke it down to the meeting, I was like, that can incorporate a lot more things than just like, um like, I almost associate it with like black magic and those kind of things, right? yeah Like, like something sound very dark sounding. I was just listening to a How Did This Get Made podcast with whatever corny movie they were listening to. I can't remember. It was like,
01:02:21
Speaker
Maybe it was Master of Disguise, but they had a book and it was called Really Black Magic.
01:02:30
Speaker
Nice. It was a family friendly movie. It was cheesy. I like Master of Disguise. The one with the... Dana Carvey? Yeah. Yeah, it is. with ah yeah yeah yeah that His half of Dumb and Dumber. I don't know. It kind of looked Whatever, like I would watch it for the several scenes that seem kind of funny. Am I not turtley enough for the turtle club, et cetera? Turtle, turtle. I've seen that reference online, but I've never seen that movie. ah Pretty much the only part of the movie I remember. ah He also drives like a scooter, I think, like a Vespa type motorized scooter thing.
01:03:24
Speaker
but i remember good so tur it's like Yeah, well, you want a dark read on that shoot. I think apparently they recorded that one or they were shooting that scene the same day that was like September 11, 2001. Damn. And they had like a moment of silence after or something. They're like, was he still in his turtle suit? I I guess. It's very old.
01:03:56
Speaker
and I had it on VHS. as of just guys yeah We had it on VHS. so It is ah seems like a weird sort of family movie. but anyway that's We should definitely look at what we were talking about on Patreon, where we're going to do some of those crappy movies that are kind of crappy, but great. Oh, yeah, like Troll 2 and all that was the first one that my sister was like, watch this because it's like terrible, but good. And they covered it on how this get made. And it's just like all the ways in which these terrible things happen. Yeah. But they're kind of funny sometimes.
01:04:39
Speaker
Oh my god. Okay, so basically all that to say um I went a different way that it has to do with um more reincarnation and past life memories. Oh, cool. Yeah, I think I told you this. It was kind of ah influenced by some of the books I was reading.
01:05:03
Speaker
um Which kind of sucked because come to find out I was looking at more books to read by this author I like that was really into the reincarnation angle. And then it, like, you know, how it auto populates. It was like MJ Rose, like death. And I was like, and out and then it turned out she like died in like a month ago. And I was like, I just found this author. oh it I was like, Oh my God.
01:05:36
Speaker
anyway um made me a little bit sad and then i was like oh and they could just keep telling you know george r martin and also the outlander author that she needs to finish her books because they're in their 70s and i was like they make it seem like they're just gonna drop dead but then lo and behold i find an author i like and she's like just barely in her 70s and then she she passes away i was like so sad oh my god oh
01:06:05
Speaker
So, um okay, this one does start with a ah quote from an author that um made an impact in this area of study. It said, I carried to my lips a spoonful of the tea in which I had let soften a bit of Madeline, which is a type of French cookie. Yeah.
01:06:29
Speaker
not a woman. um But at the very instant when the mouthful of tea mixed with cake crumbs touched my palate, I quivered, attentive to the extraordinary thing that was happening inside me. ah Oh yes, this is a quote that became, it's said a seminal passage in literature, so famous in fact that it has its own name. The Prostian Moment,
01:06:56
Speaker
um This is a sensory experience that triggers a rush of memories often long past or even seemingly forgotten. And it was from French author Marcel Prost, who penned the legendary lines in his 1913 novel,
01:07:13
Speaker
um a la recherce de temps perdu, which basically means for the study of lost times, I guess. yeah And it said it was the soup song of cake and tea that sent his mind reeling. um So basically, that's just saying how much like this flavor which is basically tied so much to smell almost almost there's like a lot of times they say like all flavor kind of is smell. um And then like the smell brings you back to the memory because memory and smell are very closely linked is
01:07:49
Speaker
you know, the the hypothesis of my essay.
01:07:56
Speaker
Cool. I know it sounds all over the place, but like when I was reading um the book, sometimes you'd be like, have these mythology about these different tools that would ah lend people to remember their past lives really easily. Like in one book, it was like this amazing like perfect perfume like a fragrance they made that was like if you would smell it and then you would be able to remember like your past life memories it was like this really cool tool
01:08:29
Speaker
I know, I thought it was so fascinating and like she would talk about it in the books and be like, oh yeah, there was a perfume and then there was a magical flute that did it. And I was like, is any of this like based in fact? But like not so much that there's a magical tool that can help you just remember your past life memories, but yeah um there's definitely a link between scent and memory and stuff like that. So I can see where people get this idea.
01:08:59
Speaker
yeah
01:09:01
Speaker
um I don't know. It is interesting, but yet to find out if we have one that can make us remember our past life. But if you do Google like yeah past life, blah, blah, blah, and then like your city populates, you're like, holy shit, there's a lot of places where we can go that they can do our little past life regression therapy, which would be really fun to just try out, I think from a smaller town. I don't think there'd be six places there where they'd be like,
01:09:28
Speaker
Past life regression, past life hypnosis. It's very cool. ah a um ah So fun fact, smell is the first s sense that is developed. It starts in the womb and is the only s sense that is fully developed by the time ah you are born.
01:09:48
Speaker
It's always there. ah This was a quote about,
01:09:57
Speaker
um smells are handled by the olfactory bulb, the structure in the front of the brain that sends information to the other areas of the body's central command for further processing. Odors take a direct route to the limbic system, including the amygdala and the hippocampus, the regions related to emotion and memory.
01:10:17
Speaker
The olfactory signals very quickly get to the limbic sink system, Murthy said. I can't see amygdala without hearing the water boy. I'll get your medulla oblongata.
01:10:34
Speaker
stupid But yes, they're very closely linked. As with Prost, he says taste plays a role too. said Marthie, whose lab explores the neutral and algorithmic basis of odor guided behaviors in terrestrial animals. Okay. We are guided by our odors. Oh, yeah. Like hormones and like A lot of animal like territorial scent marking and that kind of stuff that certain animals do. Two cans telling us to follow our nose.
01:11:15
Speaker
Yeah, this is to further the the quote more about the taste and smell um combination. When you chew molecules in the food, he said, make their way back retronasally to your nasal epithelium, meaning that essentially all of what you consider flavor is smell. When you are eating all the beautiful, complicated flavors, they are all your smell." So it's funny. Then why do we have ah zones of taste buds on our tongue then, if it's all smell? Yeah. It seems like our central cell must be
01:11:51
Speaker
I wonder if it's more developed than our sense of taste because like they kind of or some of the quotes I was reading talked about how like if you plug your nose you can kind of smell a more it's more generic like I can tell it's sweet but not what the flavor is and that like smell has a lot to do with it I don't know we're it's I find it interesting yeah um I read that although sight takes over as the most developed sense around age 10, we can still work our sniffer like any other muscle to kind of keep it as a very strong, ah powerful muscle, our sense of smell. Oh my God, this got me because I always wanted to like invent this smell-o-vision or aroma-rama were things that were trying to be invented in like the 1950s, kind of non-starters.
01:12:48
Speaker
I was like, I remember like the scratch and sniff stuff. Like I always thought that was so cool. All the scented markers. I smell purple. I smell purple. Now you get like the the theaters where they do the D box seats and stuff and they'll add scents and stuff too, I guess. um ah VR tech is also employed at apparently. um Kind of cool. I would learn that scent branding is very much a thing.
01:13:18
Speaker
and high-end hotels tend to use it, which makes sense. I can still remember staying at the West End and being like, why does it smell so good in this lobby? Is everything verbena?
01:13:29
Speaker
yeah Turns out I can buy West Incented Candles if I want. I was going to say not Hollister soaking when they used to soak their mannequins in that stupid perfume. Oh, really?
01:13:43
Speaker
and yeah they had brand name They had like fabric mannequins that were basically just the torsos, but they would go around every day and like hose down the mannequins with perfume.
01:13:55
Speaker
to the point where you'd go in there and if it was wearing like a different shirt, like maybe a tank top instead of a t-shirt, you could see the like lines and stain marks from all the times he had sprayed it with perfume. It was very 2007, 2008, and this store the store was dark, yeah it had like half the lighting it should, and the scent of it was so strong.
01:14:23
Speaker
like Oh that's interesting for like a clothing store, yeah. Yeah, all the crazy. Yeah, we're like, we get it with the, ah you don't have to keep saturating it. It's probably not gonna go on a mannequin the same as it does on human flesh. Like it's it's gonna smell different. Well they like sold like Hollister had fragrances. It wasn't just like random perfume they were doing. It was like their fragrances.
01:14:49
Speaker
that they sold. Yeah, like Tommy Hilfiger had a scent. I remember wearing it like that. Yeah. But there was people that were like allergic to perfume that even walking past the store, ah um you could smell it or you could, you could smell people that have been had been in the store and had just left because it would be like on you. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the cologne cloud or whatever. Like if you walk through it, you're like, no, that seems like bad scent branding. It was crazy.
01:15:19
Speaker
It's like suffocating being in that store. yeah no because And these guys are they're trying to do it right. you know like It's not supposed to be like overpowering. Okay, that's good.
01:15:34
Speaker
Oh yeah, I included a blurb because i I like literally, it's so, I think it works so well. yeah Like I remembered liking how good the Westin smelled when we stayed in Vegas. um It's not verbena, it turns out. It's some sort of white tea, whatever, but you can buy like their candles. Oh yeah, I guess it's notes of white tea, elegantly coupled with base notes of cedar and vanilla, which honestly sounds kind of amazing, right?
01:16:04
Speaker
I would probably like it. white White tea and black tea just plain are two of my favorite teas, so I would probably love that. Nothing too floral. like I don't want a very floral scent. It can be more masculine with like a musk or like a you know yeah woody undertone. Sandalwood. I love sandalwood. and oh yeah ah Sandalwood, lemongrass. I love that. Of sandalwood, she's going to come up here in a bit.
01:16:32
Speaker
and for doing One of my favorite floral ones, probably one of the only floral scented things I'll buy is lilac. I love lilac.
01:16:45
Speaker
That could be nice. and Yeah, I have a lilac candle that smells perfect. It smells exactly like lilacs. And then I just bought a room spray from Walmart that smells exactly like lilacs. I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna hose down my hose. Okay. Because I think it's like they look sort of similar to lavender because they can be like lavender is very purple to lilacs. There's a bunch of different colors. Like I have a lilac tree in my yard, um but it doesn't always are beautiful.
01:17:15
Speaker
Yeah, we had one in my yard growing up. It was super tall. It was as tall as our house, and I loved it so much. I like that. I like that. and there It can be not too overpowering to smell, yeah. Some people don't like it, but to each their own. I also like when we're talking about purple looking ones, lupins, they're nice too. Okay, I don't know if I've ever smelled them.
01:17:45
Speaker
It's a similar smell. And then, you know, the triangular yeah purple cone blossoms. Oh, gosh. um Yeah, it's so funny how scent can be so evocative of memories and stuff. Hey, the smell of the smell of popcorn or cheesy pizza. Yes. Oh, my God. You're there, right? Yeah. I go past something that smells like garlic bread. I'm like, I'm drooling. Yeah.
01:18:16
Speaker
The best. Done. um Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember really liking the West End. This is not an ad, but they there's a signature white tea scent and line of amenities ah have been around for more than a decade. So I'm like, maybe I should go to candle. I could feel like I'm on vacation. Do it. And then there was was a lady I read about this name was Dawn Goldworm.
01:18:44
Speaker
She was a co-founder of her own, let me get this straight, all-factive branding company where she is also a scent director. so um sense Making sense for some of her biggest clients, including the Nike company um that has a scent that is inspired by like rubber basketball sneakers and grassy soccer cleats.
01:19:11
Speaker
Hopefully new and not used smelly shoes. Oh, yes. Oh, no, we just want the sweaty foot smell. Like the bottle that new car smell, you can spray it and in your you're used beater. oh god Or, you know, there's social media people nowadays. It was the one that was not what, selling her bottled farts or something stupid. People are crazy.
01:19:42
Speaker
hey uh there's how many billion people on earth some somebody will buy it put it in the bus sure but if anybody ever says they're selling our bottled farts just you know it's not us we won't do that it's no it's not it's fart no i'm gonna i'm gonna sell gordo's farts in a bottle No, nobody wants that authentic fart. They're just like, all right. And then we're going to get under the blankets when the Dutch oven happens. Encapsulate. Oh, no. Hotbox this. thank Oh, my God. I'm so sorry. OK, this lady's this perfume. Amazing heroines goal.
01:20:35
Speaker
was to create immediate and memorable connections between brands ah and consumers, I believe is what I meant to say. I just said consumes.
01:20:49
Speaker
Her experience includes five years of perfumery school and a master's degree from and NYU where her thesis was on olfactory branding. It's totally a thing.
01:21:00
Speaker
I know it is it's really hard I heard to to make perfume because a lot of scent combinations turn rancid so you really have to get the proper balance of like the background notes and then like the front notes and everything. I could see it turning out very terrible if you're just yeah like going in there blind you're like oh I like this smell and this smell and this smell and yeah just like pile it all together it's like the first time you like make your own pizza or something you're just like oh that was too much yeah
01:21:35
Speaker
No, it does it does sound very fascinating. And I got kind of into it, like reading some of those different books and they'd be like, oh, and they had a perfumery organ and like, um much like a musical organ, it was like a big stand with um different bottles of the essential oils and the different like essential smells or whatever. but nice Oh, yes. So interesting.
01:22:00
Speaker
um But yeah, apparently just has a big impact on us. Like this quote said, and because smell and emotion are stored as one memory, according to the goldworm lady, childhood tends to be the period in which you create the basis for smells you will like and hate for the rest of your life. Sticks with us. Um,
01:22:26
Speaker
Okay. And then I did research a little bit about how incest and fragrance have gone throughout history and religion, which was a lot, but I did pare down for you guys because sometimes these rabbit holes are weirdly gigantic. I don't know. Like instant grains of resin. It's been mixes with spices sprinkled on lighted charcoal contained in a sensor usually.
01:22:54
Speaker
just just kind of like how you burn it. Here's like a big metal spoon looking thing. I say spoon like you're doing a match. You're looking, you know, I should have put up a picture. I'm sorry. But like, you know, know yeah. Yeah. Or like, yeah. Picture someone like burning incense. It's usually done in a fancy vessel. Yeah. They have the what some of the stores we went to had the incense cones that you burn in it. yeah I think it's heavy so it kind of trickles down and it kind of looks like a little like some of them are designed to look like little waterfalls. Oh, yes, I want one of those now. Yeah, because yeah, and so the smoke going up it goes down through the layers and you're like, Oh, looks like a little fountain. Yeah. Yeah. it's So cute.
01:23:52
Speaker
I definitely want a down waterfall smoke one now. Yeah. I was like, God damn. I've never been that much into incest. Incense. Incest. Yeah. Oh, snap. I just got done telling them how I called you an ah um horror movie fag last week and I can't talk. I give up.
01:24:25
Speaker
Uh, you guys need to vote, which is better for a movie figure being in 10. Oh my god.
01:24:36
Speaker
oh I'm just like, leave go, I'm going home. I don't even know. That's what happens, that's what happens when you have to work all day and then you do this after work.
01:24:55
Speaker
Though it's true though. Yeah. I did work all day. And it was cold out. I didn't work all day. I went grocery shopping and then came home and washed my hair. That was my accomplishments for the day. God, I love a good... I just did personal errands day. Yes.
01:25:17
Speaker
yeah
01:25:21
Speaker
And... Oh God, okay. So... It goes back to ancient Egypt, can you believe it? She's like, oh no. probably There were incense-bearing trees were imported from the Arabian and Somali coasts, which were used in religious rituals such as in the daily liturgy before the sun god, Amun-re, and also in the mortuary rites. Then the daily religion and also when people died.
01:25:54
Speaker
I mean, that makes sense if people are like, what, burning burning wood and that kind of stuff to yeah do fire as you'd notice. Oh, this smells particularly nice when we burn it. Oh, yeah, that's true. Yeah. It's like, did they just figure that out? Yeah.
01:26:18
Speaker
And also, particularly in these mortuary rites, they believed the souls of the dead were thought to ascend to heaven in the flame of the smoke. Nice. Yeah, kind of cool. I like that one. Cool image. um But they were also used to drive away demons and literally maloders, like sticky smells. Yeah, that's what I do in my house.
01:26:45
Speaker
They're very practical, these little, you know, incense, whatever. I can totally see it. Like, maybe they started out in practical and religious ways, like they're talking about. Um, driveway demons, male, male odors also used to manifest the presence of the gods and to gratify them with such a divine attribute. Um, honestly, a bunch of ah different people used it throughout history. The Babylonians used incense for prayer and in divining oracles and imported it to Israel before the Babylonian exile occurred. So incense went way back and was also assigned miraculous powers. But since now, I guess has been phased out of sort of the sort of the Jewish literature liturgy and traditions,
01:27:41
Speaker
They kept saying liturgy, and I don't exactly know that one what that means, except for it like and religious texts maybe.
01:27:50
Speaker
um ah So the Hindus use it for ritual and domestic offerings, as do Buddhists who burn it at festivals, initiations, and daily rites. The Chinese use it for festivals and processions, and used to honor ancestors and household gods.
01:28:08
Speaker
I love the household gloves. That's what I've seen at most is ah I guess little alters for like people, family members that have passed on and everything that will have like a little picture, maybe a memento or trinket from the person and then like the incense stick. Oh really? Like in like Asian households too or just kind of everywhere?
01:28:38
Speaker
Uh, mostly Asian households, like China. Yeah. Kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I've had incense in different houses, but I haven't really like used a lot of it. And some of the stuff I have that I was like, Oh, it's said to burn on a charcoal thing. It's like not, not your incense sticks or whatever that I'm used to burning growing up. It's like this.
01:29:05
Speaker
yeah you know, sprinkly stuff and I'm like, I don't know how to do this without causing a fire. yeah It's a bit sketch, but um you know, we'll figure it out.
01:29:23
Speaker
So yeah, it's definitely been used in a lot of different cultures and The Japanese used it in their Shinto rituals, which is an ancient Japanese japanese religion. and The Greeks used fragrant woods and resins as an offering to the gods. And they used it in ancient Rome. Do you think about that every day, guys? The Roman end Empire.
01:29:51
Speaker
ah Yeah, they had freaking fragrant woods imported ah replaced by imported incense. And something said used in the cult of the emperor. And I was like, gotta to Google that. I do. I don't know if it's true or not, but I remember hearing somewhere that they used to bottle the sweat of like the Roman gladiators.
01:30:15
Speaker
Well, that seems time consuming. wow They would like collect their sweat and they were selling it and it was for some reason primarily sold to women. If I'm remembering correctly, they were like obsessed with it because they were like war years and that kind of stuff. Yeah. It's like, oh oh, yeah, totally. The amine deodorant. Let's just do put somebody else's sweat on me.
01:30:43
Speaker
Yeah. If it's like some sort of spell or whatever, like oh sometimes they call for blood, sweat, tears and bones. Oh, yeah. That's crazy.
01:31:02
Speaker
okay so butpa bar Oh, we get to new page. The This Christian church didn't really start implementing some incense and things until about the fourth century, I guess. Then it was used in the Eucharist, ceremonial, symbolizing the ascent of the prayers of the faithful and the merits of the saints. Other things I don't really quite understand from Christianity. It ebbed and floated popularity. And then after the Reformation, it was only used sporadically by the Church of England.
01:31:38
Speaker
But under the influence of the Oxford movement in the 19th century, it regained popularity. um Mostly the ones we think I would we would recognize start out with the ones from the yeah Christmas songs. They use frankincense, myrrh and other aromatic wood bark and seeds and roots and flowers. Ancient Israelites also use storax, something called onnicha.
01:32:08
Speaker
and galbanum. But by the 17th and 18th century, synthetics were being used. So at least we didn't have to keep getting all these scents from these rare places. but Yeah. Yeah, some are from flowers, but also like some random things they used for perfumes I knew were from like, yeah, glands of animals and stuff was weird. Yeah. Right? No thanks.
01:32:36
Speaker
No, I don't want it. Okay, okay. Must go. Okay. um but To bring it back, typically in past life regression, you generally just want to put the person into a relaxed state, try and get them to kind of access those memories on their own, more of a regression, hypnotism sort of thing, a trance, and if you will.
01:33:08
Speaker
um which sometimes using these scents would help. But just to lay a basic ah basis, like it usually we we use more direct technique techniques like um questioning people, right? That's going to burn some lavender and hope they remember their past lives, I guess. um One technique for accessing memories from a past life is detailed in a study by Nicholas P. Spanos from Carleton University
01:33:39
Speaker
Ontario, Canada, subjects of a study where it first told that they would be undergoing a hypnosis and afterwards told, you are now in a different life living in another life that you have lived before in another time. You are now reliving that other life that you lived once before in a different time.
01:34:02
Speaker
Next, after the administrator asks, what name can I call you by? I want you to look down and tell me what you are wearing. Describe everything you are wearing in detail. Where are you? So usually I think that's enough. Yeah, it can be enough to kind of maybe be transport people. I think it would be interesting to try that um with a ah medium or someone, but but also i I totally get how the certain sense can be really helpful for like,
01:34:30
Speaker
bringing you back to a certain place, you know? Oh yeah. Like the memories, right? It's like yeah some scent that probably most people can think of that like brings them back to a certain time in their life. There was a little I think it had yellow flowers or something. ah it It's like some plant and it was growing in our schoolyard in elementary school. okay And my friends and I used to like pick it and we would keep it in Ziploc bags. in Oh really? We would bring it home and then we would even keep a little bit in our desk. So we liked the smell and have only smelled it a couple other times in my life. I have no idea what the plant is.
01:35:17
Speaker
But immediately, if I can smell it, sometimes I'll be like walking in a field um or like a shortcut or anything like that. And even just like kicking it, um just walking through, sometimes you'll like catch a whoop of it and be like, where is it?
Nostalgic Childhood Memories
01:35:34
Speaker
Where is it? Like, oh my God. Yeah.
01:35:38
Speaker
that's so funny you guys were just trying to like capture the smell of it or yeah um wow i never i never really figured out what it was but that's so funny yeah i feel like we weren't that sophisticated we're like let's build a fort i don't know so we had that because we had we had uh honeysuckles that were growing in our elementary like playground too so we picked those yeah a lot and yeah oh Those ones are usually like planted because they could they smell pretty good
Fragrances and Past Life Connections
01:36:12
Speaker
too. yeah
01:36:18
Speaker
so Yes, I ended up trying to find out if any of these helpful fragrance or magical tools would help you recall your past life memories.
01:36:30
Speaker
Um, it turns out there's some, uh, certain sense and, uh, fragrance, fragrant aids that can be useful in past life recall. Um, so of course I was like, cool, let's go into that. Whoever you are on the internet, that's into my beliefs,
01:36:50
Speaker
right but it is kind of interesting though. We're going to start out with lilac as we've already. She's already made an appearance. I love one this is apparently useful for past life recall. So you place a drop of the essence, like the oil or whatever, if you have it at the base of your skull, and it helps you to delve into your subconscious.
01:37:13
Speaker
um Hell yeah, that's all I got on that one. And literally, the one that's usually accompanied by frankincense mer, you know her,
01:37:28
Speaker
I have no idea what it smells like though. I don't either actually. You're right. I don't know. That's why I wish there was like a smell-o-vision dictionary. Yeah. I'm like reading a book and if they say something smells like something that I don't recognize, I'm like, I want to know what it smells like. And the internet has not really been able to completely rectify that situation.
01:37:52
Speaker
Oh, anyway. Mer, helpful in uncovering past life stuff that is causing present life blockages, like recognizing, releasing traumas, I guess, to heal from them. It's kind of cool. And also sage is important. It can help you see your past lives from a ah wider lens and help you to see and appreciate your own immortality.
01:38:20
Speaker
oh I know it sounds deep. It's also very sacred to many indigenous people, which I think most of us sounds familiar with. Like it's sage, like First Nations people of North America and also ah ah Australians, Australian aboriginals. Good Lord. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those ones where I think I'm like, I don't think we're supposed to pick that or like, you know, other plans. Yeah.
01:38:51
Speaker
I'll leave that to you guys. We've raped this land enough. Yeah. Another plant you can use is wisteria. I don't know, they always make this one sound like a beautiful climbing vine, but it's also a powerful metaphysical herb that can help connect you to your past creativity and your oldest memories even. That's kind of damn well, I know.
01:39:17
Speaker
Um, lavender can be useful apparently, uh, I guess because it is such a relaxing scent. I mean, we'll lavender like, yeah. They they put that in all the things and the candles and the teas to make me fall asleep like the sleepy time tea.
01:39:36
Speaker
And lavender is like a scent you can, or not a scent, obviously it's a scent, a flavor you can buy now. They have like lavender ah extract and actually at my work, I just bought a lavender, like sugarless sweetener, like a coffee. Oh, really? thank Yeah.
01:39:57
Speaker
And you can add it to your tea and it tastes pretty good. Cause if you've ever, i if you've had lavender, once you notice it, it's like a really hard flavor to describe, but once you've had it, you'll notice it and stuff. It's really nice. I like.
01:40:14
Speaker
No, I know what you mean. were Like, I never thought I would describe myself as being into anything that tasted like floral. But I drink Earl Grey tea, which yeah the Bergam Bergamo Bergamot. I don't even know. I always didn't even know what the fuck it was based off. I think it is some real life plant or flower or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, I didn't even realize that was a real like flavor. But yeah, I think most of the teas and everything are yeah no i get it i get it um yeah and it's yeah it's just funny that we were talking about that one okay so what did i leave off lavender okay yeah yeah and it connects you oh yeah sorry wisteria and then lavender as we talked about the relaxing scent connects you to past lives in a dream state which
01:41:15
Speaker
is weird not all of them say they do that I don't know um and helps you recognize relationships from your past lives so could put you in tune with your karma which is interesting um no I love instant karma only no not instant karma I just like the ideas that like you go through your lives ah with put the closest people to you and they may be take the form of your mother or your brother or your best friend or whatever, but like that you going through the lives with your same souls that you usually go through. And I, I really like that idea. I think it's like, cause you know, you'll connect with somebody like you and me. I'm like, I don't know. We just get along. We just jive. And then it's like, well, maybe in a past life, like we were sisters or something like, you know what I mean? It's kind of cool. It'd be nice to think of it. Yeah. I like it.
01:42:15
Speaker
um But it has a very real place in like reincarnation theory and stuff.
Reincarnation Theories and Soul Groups
01:42:21
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of cool. yeah like Like soul groups. Yeah. Oh, okay. I don't think I've heard of that before. Ooh. Yeah. It should lend you my... Oh, I love that book series. The, what? I always talk about it too much. The Celestine Prophecy. It's... It's got some interesting, I don't know. Your soul groups are giving you a message. It's a fun. I enjoy them. I don't know, but it's, it's a bit woo woo. You gotta to be like that. The Alchemist. I know my friend Kelly really likes the Alchemist, but like it's one of those books where it's like, you know, it's a bit self help and you know, whatever. It's not just like you look inward. It's not just like fiction or whatever.
01:43:11
Speaker
It might make you look at things about yourself. No. Anyway, couple more ah random herbs and ah smells that are interesting. I don't know. I like i like rosemary. You got anything about rosemary? Shit. I don't know. My next one was frankincense and then orange blossoms. So I don't think so, actually. The orange blossoms are nice.
01:43:39
Speaker
But that's interesting because Rosemary, I feel like all the herbs, yeah, I didn't actually go through them all when the ones that came up through this research. Yeah. um Frankincense is apparently an ancient herb, herb, herb, herb linger.
01:44:03
Speaker
You guys all go watch Schitt's Creek if you don't get that.
01:44:08
Speaker
um Herb Erblinger and her wines. yeah But Lavender. This one's especially good for connecting you to past lives in a dream state, which is cool. Okay, I said that probably. Recognize relationships from past lives, put you into any karma. Okay. Frankincense. Ancient Herb helps you see past life obsessions received messages from past selves.
01:44:33
Speaker
and relaxes you and clears the air. That's a handy one. Gotta give me some frankincense. Also, orange blossoms, they put you in tune with past life trauma. They oh they are also used in dream recall, and they help to clean away mental cobwebs. So these all could be very good for, I think, setting the stages for like meditating and all that.
01:45:02
Speaker
yeah Sandalwood, yeah an ancient herb. We love the smell. yeah um Its spiritual properties include helping to remove blockages and any rigidity to help you relax, I guess. Okay. Yeah. Eucalyptics. We can't talk. Nope. Eucalyptics. Yeah. Also a good one.
01:45:32
Speaker
I also like eucalyptus. I like all of these. What? Yeah. Euthanasia? No. Oh, God. know. I'm just like tripping over my words. ah Yes. Eucalyptics is a... No, I can't even say it. Yeah, I said eucalyptics.
01:45:54
Speaker
but
01:45:58
Speaker
This plant... is a third eye opener. You just pop a drop onto the center of your forehead and open that baby up. A drop of what? A drop of what? Eucalyptus oil. Okay. It was like, I'm having a stroke.
01:46:18
Speaker
I think it was me in the first half, um or maybe it was last episode when I was editing. i I said two words wrong in one sentence and I went, oh my God, can I talk? And that just reminded me.
Humor in Editing and Infomercials
01:46:33
Speaker
Oh, it's so funny. yeah you You end up with a real, you know, hindsight is 2020 when you're editing and stuff. Like Jesus Christ, what am I doing? I was editing some and I was saying saying to Pat like,
01:46:48
Speaker
Oh my God, if we had a drinking game tonight where the amount of times we said yeah, I was like, yeah, that was so good. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, Oh my God. It's infuriating sometimes. You don't notice it in the moment. You just don't.
01:47:07
Speaker
So funny. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Exactly. No, I know. It's the crutch words, you guys. They're so hard to get rid of. um like and so yeah Oh, I'm such a very bad one for like. So am I. Well, I have got only a few more terms for you. Terms? I don't know. The next one was Hyacinth, which is a flower. Which I thought was cool because as I was telling you this books where she was kind of
01:47:47
Speaker
hinting at this reincarnation, not hinting at, very much including a reincarnation theme in a lot of her books. One of her main characters name was Jack, which was short for Jacinthe. I don't know how to say it, but she said it was the French word for Hyacinth. And I was like, oh, because they said that Hyacinth is a great tool for remembering old events from the past, including past lives that can cause mental issues now, especially including depression.
01:48:17
Speaker
Your past life causing you depression gets you some hyacinth. Like an infomercial. Right. Slap chop. I honestly don't understand how these all work. I just thought of the ShamWow guy. Didn't he turn out to be a creep or something?
01:48:43
Speaker
Oh, I thought he was the same guy as the Slap Chop. He might be dead. I think he did. I don't know. Slap Chop, ShamWow. I don't think he did Shake Weight, but... Oh God, Shake Weight. That's an oldie. I'll never get tired of watching that montage of um infomercial actors like overacting where...
01:49:10
Speaker
Like somebody's trying to sit down and they're holding a bowl of chips and they sit down and they put the recliner up and their bowl of chips gets thrown behind them. or That one has become like a meme. Yeah. Or the lady that opens her Tupperware cupboard and the whole avalanche of Tupperware that's like, I don't know.
01:49:28
Speaker
but like three times the size of that cupboard worth of Tupperware. A clown car of Tupperware. Yes. There's gotta be a better way. Yeah, they all have that tagline. Where somebody's trying to, I can't remember what somebody's trying to do, but they end up just throwing something through a window instead.
01:49:48
Speaker
Oh, is that not the same one as the lazy boy with the chimp bullet there? Maybe they chuck it through the window. It's amazing. It's the best like five minute module. It always makes me think of like Joey Tribbiani from Friends. Because I think he's in one of those infomercials. There's going to be a better way. I think he is.
01:50:13
Speaker
Damn. Oh, yeah. i go I'm not. I'm not going to make it. You guys. OK. Yeah, I will. Got one more. Maybe one more for. OK, we're getting there. You're like, where are we going? That it it was interesting. But reincarnation, all that. It's a huge part of Tibetan Buddhism.
Tibetan Buddhism and Reincarnation Politics
01:50:41
Speaker
I. know that they they find the children who they believe are like the reincarnations of the Dalai Lama, et cetera, et cetera. I think there's other Dali's or Lamas or something, but it's, it's kind of interesting. No, one of the books got into how that China, you know how they're always like free to bet. Well, China doesn't maybe love the idea that they can um decide who's the reincarnation of an ancient
01:51:13
Speaker
religious person like a Dalai Lama. And so one book was kind of about how they were like, Oh, no, we've decided that you guys don't, you know, know who's every incarnation anymore. And you're not allowed to officially say that, says China. And Tibet was like, what the fuck, we pick our Dalai Lamas. And like, yeah as soon as they're like six, we're like, Oh, you remember your past life, you are the one, right? I was like,
01:51:40
Speaker
They're just trying to like crush their culture. Anyway, that's a whole thing that's, it was kind of in the book I was reading, but I was like, I do not have time to like get into the actual, yeah, like politics. But I also knew that like free Tibet was such a thing for a while that I'm like, Oh, I get it. Like they're like trying to, you know, they're like, they're like, but like trying to come down their spiritual beliefs and yeah, it's not good. So.
01:52:07
Speaker
uh interesting i don't know you guys can maybe kind of look more into the the reincarnationists and what they're allowed to say they are reincarnations of in tibet these days yeah um but it's just very fascinating to me um what did i say yeah they find children who they believe are direct reincarnations of the Dalai Lama. I believe they kind of give them those little tests where they're like, here's your toy or here's an object. And then if they pick, if the child picks the object that belonged to the Dalai Lama in a previous life, they're like more inclined to believe it's them. Yeah, stuff like that. Weird. I've never heard of that before. No, that's it that I'm lost, man. Yeah.
01:53:00
Speaker
I swear they like gave the kids several things. I put that out of my memory the last like three seasons of that show. That's because you're very... Kate watched it.
01:53:13
Speaker
Well, I am to agree, but we're very logical. So if it doesn't make a lot of sense, that's not going to be like the way something happens. I don't know. I think you're probably like, yeah, that's not a thing. ah Same with by the end of like Breaking Bad. I was just like, hey, I'm going to watch this so I can say I watched it all. But I was like, I'm not really invested in any of this anymore. No. No, I think we watched the first two seasons at my house. And then honestly, we were not invested at all.
01:53:43
Speaker
It's one of those where people keep asking if you're gonna watch it and then I just didn't want to because I was like, it felt like so much pressure. Yeah. Yeah, it's one of the that's like one of the reasons or probably one of the last just straight drama shows I watched that didn't involve some sort of like paranormal supernatural, yeah historical fantasy sci fi anything else. It was just straight like drama.
01:54:13
Speaker
whenever it was like, no, I mean. Yeah, it's different nowadays with the streaming and whatnot. I can watch stuff and be like, oh, that just seemed like HBO, which was kind of a marker of things being quite good back in the day. Like we just got done that one that was called American Primeval about, that I don't know, the Wild Wild West. The time was when the America was all you know, settlers versus North like Native Americans and everyone, everyone died. It was very sad. Got done watching that and then Rain wanted to go see her movie yesterday and I was like, God damn, this better be a happy movie because everyone's just got done dying and everything I'm watching today. It's rough.
01:55:05
Speaker
Um, okay. So yeah, I mean, a lot of the mind was just to establish the scent memory connection.
01:55:18
Speaker
It's, I don't know. I feel like I'm ADHD all over
Proust Phenomenon and Memory Exploration
01:55:21
Speaker
the place with mine. I guess I talked about the ones that can maybe help you remember past lives. I mean, which was the only kind of, what do you want to call it? Like.
01:55:35
Speaker
strong concrete evidence i could find after reading these books but it yeah not that there isn't evidence that the smell is connected to memory that is very much a thing um yeah i guess we just don't know if it can really help you connect to uh like a past life memory but i would like to think so yeah yeah um i guess what else and ne that's the
01:56:07
Speaker
was we talked to the one I mentioned at the first with the guy puts his little piece of cake in his tea and it's his little memories. Yeah, they literally his name was Proust, the guy who wrote it and they call it the Proust phenomenon, which it refers specifically to smell evoked memories, which is kind of interesting. I just always found it, you know, like weird how the smells can really bring you back to things. But but like, I felt like we don't always talk about it in different things. Um,
01:56:38
Speaker
But the phenomenon has been described in this way of five characteristics of Proustian memories, where they use the acronym, which spelled out lover. You want to be my lover? Because L, limbic, the smell is closely tied to the brain's limbic system, which controls memory, emotion, attention and hormone production.
01:57:05
Speaker
O is for old. Smells have the potential to evoke both long buried childhood memories and traumatic memories we thought we'd put behind us. Ouch. V is for vivid. I know, I'm like, L is for the way. No. ah V is for odor evoked. Autobiographical memories can appear more vivid, clear and detailed than other memories. ah The E is for emotional. Prostian memories are emotionally intense.
01:57:34
Speaker
smell is the only other is the only sense that transmits sensory information directly to the amygdala, the brain region that processes fear and arousal. It's so weird how it bypasses a lot of the other senses, like pathways. I don't know. Yeah. She's right to the brain. Like, I don't get it.
01:57:59
Speaker
Um, and R is for rarely rehearsed. Many of us are prone to rehearse upsetting events days on end, but the events Prostian memories bring to life are rarely rehearsed. Um, so I guess it just like brings back things that you can't really suppress. not too sure I don't know what that means. Um, okay. I did have one more quote that I thought maybe you could kind of,
01:58:29
Speaker
It was about the prose phenomenon, ah the the memory of, you know, putting that bite in your mouth and the smell and everything linking you back. And the full quote was about ah what he felt when he tasted it. And it said, and as soon as I had recognized the taste of the piece of Madelaine dipped in lime blossom tea that my aunt used to give me, I immediately the old er saw immediately the old gray house on the street where her bedroom was.
01:58:58
Speaker
came like a stage set to attach itself to the little wing opening on the garden that had been built for my parents behind it. And with the house, the town from morning to night and in all weathers, the square where they sent me before lunch, the streets where I went to do errands, the paths where we took if the weather was fine,
01:59:16
Speaker
and as in the game in which the Japanese amuse themselves by filling a porcelain bowl with water and steeping it in little pieces of paper until then indistinct which the moment they are immersed in it stretch and shape themselves color and differentiate become flowers, houses, human figures, firm and recognizable. So now all the flowers in our garden in Mr. Swan's Park, the water lilies on the Vivillon, and the good people of the village and their little dwellings in the church and all of Cambrai and its surroundings. All of this which is assuming form and substance emerged, town and garden alike, from my cup of tea.
01:59:54
Speaker
Well, God damn it. I think he's a tea leaf reader because that one was a lot more about his cup of tea than I thought the quote was about to be honest.
02:00:06
Speaker
Just like it just took him back.
02:00:11
Speaker
Yeah, well, the first couple articles, they were like, boom, and that took him back. And I was like, to what? ah Like, but like basically just reminded of him of like mornings with his aunt because that was to what they were. Yeah, he remembered what the house looked like. Yeah.
02:00:26
Speaker
Yeah. And that makes sense. It's like it usually youre like, oh my God, I can smell like cotton candy, fucking perfume, so to speak. It's like an old body spray, you know, a cheap one. they Oh, yeah. It just brings me back to being 14, like no matter or like wherever I was. it Oh my God. Oh, oh, Bible camp. Oh, like teenage hormones, like oh, preteen angst. Like I just it just like brings me back to a time in my life. And I'm like, I totally get it. Like it's just like totally linked, right? ah Yeah.
02:00:57
Speaker
but very interesting the the way I was like, are there a real things that can make people remember the past lives? Well, other than like actual past life regression, which seems to be a fairly effective thing where people like kind of walk you through it. And yeah, I don't know. you You must feel like you've been through something afterward. There was a book, I can't remember what.
02:01:26
Speaker
It's called, but if I'm remembering correctly, it had the main characters. ah
02:01:37
Speaker
it It's like whatever age you die at. you like go to like the next place and then you like age backwards again until you become like an infant and then you're like, you go somewhere the Benjamin button. And then you get really sent out into the world and then you like really grow up and it like keeps going. But there was like, something it was like a hu husband and wife and they had died at different times. So they were like,
02:02:10
Speaker
He was like six and she's like older or something. And then they're passing each other by. Yeah. I can see by the way your fingers are going. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, totally. It's a very... Yeah. And the book like, the book like ended or something with her going back into the world or something.
02:02:34
Speaker
i don't know it's it been a long time since i read it i cannot remember what it's called right it sounds like one of the one of them had to give like sacrifice something though for them to live at the same time or at the same time like i can't even remember like how she had died or anything but i just remember like the last few chapters were like her and I'm pretty sure it was her husband and they were both fairly young and they're just playing together like schoolmates and that kind of stuff. You're like, you don't remember that's your husband, no. Oh Jesus Christ. And they're like, you're my best friend. Yeah, that's the worst. And they're like, you're my best friend. And you're like, no. That time you wind me bullshit when they mix it with the romantic stuff, it can mess with you.
02:03:24
Speaker
But you don't even know. yeah Yeah, I'll have to try and figure out what it was. Yeah, it was kind of interesting. yeah Like going through because everybody's like aging backwards. So up until they hit a certain age, they're keeping like all of their knowledge and everything with them. And then when they get like, yeah, when they get too young and everything, like you just you don't remember stuff and you're like more of a kid i'd say after like age 10 people started like forgetting stuff and it wasn't severance that one where they like only know stuff at work or no okay no this was a book different this was a book oh right i read like long time ago read it and probably like middle school that's funny i think i heard them talking about a
02:04:19
Speaker
book that her at No, it was one that was like a Stephen King short story that got made into a movie and they were talking about how this get made and I was like, I think Kelsey read this. um Maybe. so It's like they're running and they're running and they're running forever. It's almost like an early Hunger Games. I'm sure you were telling me about it. Oh, the ah longest. The long walk, I think it is.
02:04:48
Speaker
I think so. Yeah, that's when they go on a. Yeah, like yearly people get nominated in small towns. If you win it, you're like family gets food or something crazy. Yeah, you basically everything will be paid for for the rest of your life if you win. But you are basically walking until you're the last one walking. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure they talked about like a version of it.
02:05:18
Speaker
Yeah, you can't stop. If you stop to even like go to the bathroom, uh, if you don't like keep a certain pace or anything, you get shot and killed and then like you're basically. Yeah. It sounded dark when you described it. Yeah. And you can't so like, while they're competing, they can't sleep and they have to walk, like eat while walking and everything. It's brutal. And I can't remember if they were talking now. I can't remember what I was talking about, but.
02:05:47
Speaker
There was definitely a time when I was listening to how this get made and he called it, is it like the hunky games? And I was like, shut up, Jason. Now I'm only going to be able to think of it as the hunky games. But like, yeah, so many are very similar to that. He's not wrong. Squid games too. Anyway. Yeah. I haven't, I haven't started watching that yet. I don't know. Did you watch the first season?
02:06:17
Speaker
I, yes. Yeah. I think rain watched it first and then I watched it and yeah, I don't know. She might've even watched the second one. I don't know what's happening. I liked the second one. It was, it was different enough and they like wove in enough, like more story building that it's like, okay, this isn't the same thing again. It feels like well worth it to have a second season. And now what are they calling it season three or part three or something?
02:06:44
Speaker
Oh really? Yeah, it was like, oh no, this is like a proper continuation. It's not the same thing again.
02:06:53
Speaker
yeah No, there's some of the challenges they did on the traders were similar to a squid game thing, because there was one where they had to keep going forward on squares that would drop them if there wasn't anything there, but they were on and harnesses.
02:07:10
Speaker
less deadly, but it was the same idea. And I was like, Oh, I recognize this. Be like some shit they used to do on Survivor or something. Yeah. I mean, they have a lot of ex-Survivor people on some of the seasons of Traders. Like the the latest US one is like all reality TV people. Yeah. I hate them. I hate reality TV. I know. I know. I'm like, I only like like amazing race and now the trainers so yeah all right well i guess we should this is the end of this episode that we started 17 days ago something like that all right well i guess we should say goodbye and thanks for listening and catch you next week yeah we don't know we went off on a movie tangent so ah
02:08:03
Speaker
I hope you enjoyed, and yeah. Catch you next time! Keep it cryptic! Bye!
02:08:12
Speaker
all