Transcript
Speaker: Welcome back to the AI driven marketer. I'm Dan Sanchez, and I'm on a mission to try to master AI in 2024. And I'm so excited because I have the privilege of welcoming back a guest for the second time. Yes, I have Courtney Baker here with me today. And we're going to be talking about who owns marketing in a company because
Speaker: That's not quite clear. It seems like it's all over the place, and it's going to have to become clear if AI is going to become as big as Courtney and I think it's going to be. So Courtney, welcome back to a second round. Now, Dan, you just said who is going to own marketing in a company, and I hope, I pray.
Speaker: That it's still the marketers that own marketing. AI in the company. I thought, man, I thought I had that intro so smooth. I screwed up in a critical place. I was like, man, that was the smoothest intro I gave in a while. Yes, that was killer. What's going to be bad is if the AI owns marketing, that's hopefully not going to happen. That's the truth. Who owns marketing? The robots. The robots.
Speaker: to the final destination. So to kind of open it up where you think it should go. And then we can kind of under pack, unpack like the different options we can see unfolding. Yeah, this is a really interesting question. And I have heard some thoughts around this that are a little bit concerning.
Speaker: Because I think a lot of perceptions are that AI is a technology project problem, whatever your sample, you know, your viewpoint on AI is that this is a technology thing.
Speaker: And I, as we started talking about this episode, I started thinking about, you know, analogies for that, you know, is it, you know, is it, you know, when the internet was created being like, okay, technology that's, you know, you're on that. But I was like, that's not, that's not, that doesn't work. I don't think for this case, I then started to think about, okay, maybe it's more like remote work, you know, obviously remote work,
Speaker: you need a technology to make remote work possible. So would it be more like, hey, when we started all working remote, turning to, you know, the best technologist on our teams and being like, okay, remote work is your problem. You'd be like, no, that doesn't make sense because there's going to be all these changes within the organization.
Speaker: all these cultural changes. How do you interact with each other? How does the actual organization of your business change when the whole company is remote? You know, it's just vast shifts and the change management of that is vast. I don't think, I mean, Dan, what is your take on that analogy of, you know, kind of comparing this to something else? Do you have a better one?
Speaker: Now, I'm kind of with you. I think it's more pervasive than technology. Technology usually fits into a specific section. I mean, that's what technology companies do. They find a place in the budget somewhere which falls under a department and has a decision maker. Because if they don't, then who do they go to? The problem is, AI is going into every technology.
Speaker: Now, and it's going to be at a high level at a low level, like it's going to be frontline. It's going to be strategic. It's going to be an everywhere in between the whole org. So you're just kind of like, hmm.
Speaker: Yes, I totally agree. Yes. And I think that's what some of my concern has been around is so many, even at an executive level, telling me like, yeah, we're just going to hire somebody in to take over that piece of the, to lead AI really from a technology standpoint. And I'm like, oh man, it's so much bigger, so much more invasive.
Speaker: literally going to change the very foundation of your business model, even if you're not aware of it or not. And of course, there's probably a small percentage of businesses that that's not going to be true for. So, you know, my thoughts on where it sits is nuance, because I think, especially early on, there's going to be a massive change management piece to this. Yep. Yep.
Speaker: I think that is challenging because we may not have leaders in that spot that are ready to lead a disruptive technology change management plan. And so I do find that it's a really interesting moment in organizations and figuring out, okay, who can do it that well? I don't think it's a technology.
Speaker: piece, you know, is it a pop, you know, should it sit in operations? Should it sit in HR? You know, we've talked about that over on AI know how, like, is there an HR component of where this sits? At the end of the day, I think we all have to be thinking currently right now, as if it is going to land with us, at least at the executive level. I think we should all have the mentality that I need to be learning this technology as if I am going to be the one in charge of it.
Speaker: Yeah, right now that I think that's how most leaders are dealing with it. They're thinking about how to own it for their own department. And since it's touching just about every department, I think everyone's kind of thinking about it that way. Like what do I need to do? Like sales directors are thinking about their sales orgs and how it's going to impact that. CMOs are thinking about how it's going to impact it. Finance leaders are talking about how it's going to impact them, right?
Speaker: Um, and then some companies are hiring chief AI officers. So you, you go down the list and that's when you ask the question, like who owns marketing, you think, well, like the first thing that comes to your mind, you're like, I T because it's technology. But then you're like, well, but like we can think of stories of how the website played out. Like who used to own the website? I T because it was technology. Who owns the website now?
Speaker: marketing everywhere. When's the last time you've seen the website being owned by IT? Maybe in a massive, massive organization. I remember working with a $30 billion company and I think they had a separate department just for the website. I think it did fall under IT and it was a problem. That much I remember.
Speaker: But for the most part, the website as a technology piece is moved under marketing, under like marketing ops. And maybe there's a DevOps that they work with sometimes to develop new parts of the website. Yeah. So where does AI go when it touches everything? That's why it's an interesting question.
Speaker: By the way, you said marketing again. Where does marketing land in the organization? Oh my gosh. Maybe I'll come back into that. Maybe I won't. Yeah. Where does AI land when you're talking? I mean, because it's an AI for marketing show. I know, I know. You have to work on that in my head, what's going on. Where does AI sit in the organization?
Speaker: I mean, it's going to affect marketing, but it's going to affect everything. And even though this is a podcast for marketers, it's going to impact marketing heavily. Who gets to dictate your AI or maybe you get to choose it for yourself. And that's why we're asking the question.
Speaker: The one thing I do think about is if I look down the list of departments and have a list here, it's like, does, does AI get owned by IT? Is it the CIO? That would make a lot of sense. You know, the chief information officer, uh, should it be, should it be its own department? You know, maybe, maybe couched under one of these bigger IT or information departments.
Speaker: should everyone own it for themselves. And I'm kind of leaning towards yes, all of the above. Maybe, maybe it becomes its own thing. Kind of like we have, at least big companies have like an information silo and data silo in addition to an IT silo. Yeah. Because if something's that big, you might need a silo that kind of becomes the asset to lead all the departments who have to make all their own decisions.
Speaker: But then IT needs to be involved because there's going to be integration issues or uniformity, right? Because it's not like you can use G Suite co -pilot and Microsoft's co -pilot. You're going to have to pick one or the other. And there's probably going to be decisions like that with AI. So procurement will have to be involved in making sure it kind of like fits across, but then everyone can customize it and have it integrated into their own stuff.
Speaker: One of the most interesting things our team has been discussing is how we as organizations start to change how we manage knowledge. If you think about it right now, we don't really have great ways to store companies knowledge. You know, we use Google Docs, you might have wikis, internal pages,
Speaker: all different variations of how we store knowledge. And I think this is an area that I completely agree is going to fundamentally change, that we will start to use AI to develop our own knowledge centers of our organizations. And that is an area where it makes total sense that
Speaker: the CIO, you know, that this is a technology piece that is, you know, helping run the organization would lead that piece. On the flip side, I think one thing that marketing marketers, I have almost always found our forward thinking, you know, that is kind of the unique
Speaker: seat that we hold in the organization. And I think because of that, it gives a really interesting lens into AI. And I would just encourage marketing if that is, you know, maybe even that's your marketing leadership, or you've got marketers on your team that are more interested in leveraging AI in your department to really encourage other people. I think this is, again, we're
Speaker: the media cycles have, you know, injected a good dose of fear into what's happening with AI. And some of that is warranted. We've got to do this well. We have got to do it well. And so there's certainly room for that, but also just the ongoing emphasis of we all have got to level up together and really making this about something we do
Speaker: together versus individuals. And I hope that as doing it together also helps us make wise decisions in how we leverage it. I know if I were leading a marketing department again, I think I would be, I mean, I'm one of those marketing leaders that likes to figure things out and then I delegate it. There are certainly levels where I, I guess there's been times where I didn't know and I had to hire someone who knew the thing I didn't know like Salesforce and have them figure it out, right?
Speaker: Yeah, but I think if I were doing if I were leading a department again, I would probably be in all my one on ones, I'd probably be having the conversation of where working, working for your position, start leveraging AI. I need you to investigate it and come back to me with where where this could help, because this is the future. Let's start taking steps there so we're not caught.
Speaker: behind six months from now, even two weeks from now, things are popping up all over the place. I recently just talked to an executive who literally has their team using their KPIs on how are they
Speaker: leveraging AI, which new tool have they experimented with? They've created a KPI around it because they realize this is really important. And it's without the reps of experimentation because we again, you and I talked about this a little bit last time, the winners haven't arisen yet. You know, we just have lots of different options right now and no clear winner. So what it
Speaker: What it means for us is we just gotta go try a lot of tools. Unfortunately, I don't know if AI is gonna be this super productive tool for us in 2024 because of that. But I think we've gotta continue to experiment and figure out what works best in our individual workflows.
Speaker: But I think the idea of leveraging KPIs and what you're talking about, how do you, on an ongoing weekly basis, make sure the people in your marketing team are testing and trying new ways of producing, you know, what the end result is, whatever that is. I think.
Speaker: For me, the no -brainer would be upgrading all your licenses for the chat GPT teams or plus or whatever it is. They have a team feature out now where you can share custom GPTs and share some of the knowledge and then it makes it more secure too. You're not feeding company data into the AI, right? So I feel like that's probably the no -brainer tool that everybody's pretty familiar with. And it's broad enough that it can solve lots of different use cases, especially for marketing, right?
Speaker: The co -pilots that Microsoft and Google are now putting out are with the next set that I'm like,
Speaker: I haven't paid for one of those yet, and everything I'm seeing about them is they're kind of like MVPs right now. You hope that Microsoft's Excel AI wizard can do stuff for you, but it's almost there, but not quite, but it will be soon. Obviously, they're investing a ton of effort into it. This is the focus now. It was cloud. Now you could tell Microsoft's 100 % focused on AI as a whole company, which is
Speaker: crazy to think that one massive company as big as Microsoft has a really clear focus on this. I should tell us something. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think another indicator that you can take just recently, Apple announced they're no longer in the, they've totally killed their Apple car. I don't know what their name was for it, or if you recall, it's gone. I haven't seen this announcement. Yeah, I'm just so sad. I kept hearing rumors that they were denouncing a car. They just announced that like, okay, we were, but now it's dead.
Speaker: It's dead. They're like, no, no, no. This is not the future. And they're reinvesting all of that into AI. I mean, it's just phenomenal to see how much emphasis these technology companies, how they are changing their business models to really go after the technology.
Speaker: All the smartest people in the world feel like they get employed by the biggest companies of the world, which are generally tech companies. To me, that's one of the clear indicators of the writings on the wall. It's spelled with two letters, A -I. The tech companies all know it and are going after it. All of them.
Speaker: I do think we will eventually get to the point that AI will be like the internet. It's just commoditized. We're not spending any time there. But if you look back, how long did it take us to get there? It was certainly a long evolution. I do think that this will be faster than that was. Yes. I think the speed of the technology, how it's evolving,
Speaker: It's just, it's that lightning speed. So I think our business, it'll be really interesting to look back and see what the timeline was. But in five years, I think everything could look dramatically different.
Speaker: So if you're sitting as a marketing leader in an organization, do you think it'd be wise not only to lead the charge for your department? And I mean, imagine if I were, if I were again, a marketing leader, I'd be trying to get it to come from the ground up. I need suggestions coming up. Of course, I'm researching and collaborating to see what can come top down. Cause some decisions have to be made as far as a unified platform goes. But of course, individuals will have their own individual tools will need that are AI driven.
Speaker: But then I'd almost wonder, I'm like, should I, you're going to have to be collaborating cross department too. Like conversations have to be had with marketing, of course, sales, cause sales is going to have their own AI tools and maybe they need to integrate with marketing. Not sure yet.
Speaker: But then IT and information and data, right? Because some of that marketing data is going to be useful to customer service and sales. Some of the customer service data is going to be really helpful to marketing, right? So, but, and we're going to want to be able to access their survey data through an AI of some kind. So there's going to have to be cross departmental collaboration at some kind. I almost wonder if like companies need to start now thinking about should we hire a person that's just in charge of AI for the whole company?
Speaker: whether they're chief level or not. Yeah, I think it's a really interesting question of, is this an actual seat? I would lean toward yes. I think the makeup of that person is an interesting conversation that we've kind of already started to hit on. What skill sets does that person have?
Speaker: And I think if you do have those skill sets right now, your value in an organization just went up tremendously. But I think the default of this is we're hiring a technologist, you know, maybe that's true if it's, you know, you're building a piece of
Speaker: Technology or you know you have a certain deployment of technology you're building an internal knowledge base and how you store all that makes sense if it is really how the entire organization is going to.
Speaker: deploy AI, how it's going to be used cross -functionally. Again, you and I have mentioned this on the last episode of how right now we're just at this horizon of execution level. It's a bunch of individuals using AI to do their work.
Speaker: you know, better productivity. That is, we're going to continue to go up levels from that on, again, operations, the cross -functional work, how we do meetings, you know, it's going to shift everything. But then you get up from the level from that, even strategy, you know, and I think we're some ways off from having that. But again, this is going to,
Speaker: shift the organization. And then when you start to talk about, Hey, there will be roles that change roles that you will no longer need because of AI. And how do you walk an organization through making those types of. Business structure moves, you know, when you have people departing because of a technology that can now replace a role.
Speaker: That's a hard thing to do. That's hard. I think that's the responsibility to the leader and why leaders need to be paying really close attention to AI, why they need to be having conversations with their people.
Speaker: to start preparing for that so they can do the do the hard thing and start working collaborating with all the contributors and managers who could be replaced by AI and start shifting them to something else, or leveling up to be the AI manager or whatever it needs to be.
Speaker: Now, because if you don't do it now, then by the time it gets hard on the company, you have to lay people off. And then you're like, you have to make those financial choices in the best interest of the company. And now you're forced to make the cut, because it's been mandated. And you can't, you know, you can't justify to your boss why you have to keep this person. And now you have to do the hard thing and
Speaker: You're kicking yourself for not seeing it earlier. Yeah, exactly. So I have this like ongoing thing that's kind of been bothering me and I'm curious to throw it out to you and see if you have felt something similar or have the same concern.
Speaker: or can make me not have the concern that would be even better. I have a slight inclination, I have a slight concern that executives aren't actually using these tools enough because they are on the execution level and most of their roles are not, you know, executing anymore. They're spending most of their time doing more of that cross -functional, operational or above roles. But because of that,
Speaker: one of my concerns is an over index on what the, what AI can actually do and replace. For example, if you're thinking, you know what, we don't actually need cop marketing copywriters anymore. You know, this is probably an extreme example, but you're like, as an executive, we don't need that anymore. Chat GPT can be our copywriter and you start to make decisions on
Speaker: taking away roles because you're not using chat GPT enough as you know through a lens of marketing copywriter to know it can help. It can prompt some things to date. I still have not put a piece of you know
Speaker: a prompt in and gotten out something that I was ready to ship. I still had to be a marketing expert to figure out, is there anything in here good? So that's probably an extreme case, but I do find some concern of thinking AI can replace roles like that. Just, oh yeah, that one can be gone because there's not as much hands -on experience with the tools at an executive level.
Speaker: It's one of my 2024 predictions that I made in December was that a couple, if not a lot of big companies that do top -down approach installments of tech like this are going to get in big trouble because they're going to lay off people, install AI, and they're going to fail miserably. Yeah. Okay. So you're concerned too. I totally expect that. It's going to be a mid -level to big company problem.
Speaker: The small companies won't because they're small and nimble, but a couple of big companies are going to take massive swings and have massive misses and say, AI is stupid. Yeah. Yeah. It didn't work. I mean, I predict it. It's a pretty safe prediction because how many times a big company has done this? 20. That's just going to happen again. So I think it's going to happen. Even if you look at the success or failure rate of
Speaker: new technology deployments in an organization. It's actually pretty staggering that they don't work as many times as you would think. Um, actually Pete, you are our chief strategy officer at known well has made the prediction that he thinks 90 % of AI projects will fail. Now he's not talking about, you know, these individual execution. He's talking about these much larger enterprise deployments.
Speaker: But he's actually saying that because of the lack of change management and the other pieces at the table when it comes to an AI transformation that most people are not paying attention to right now. I'd say in the enterprise space, that's true.
Speaker: I'd say in the mid -level, the small business space, it won't be 90%. I also think it's hard to measure that because what about all the current SaaS products and tech companies they're currently using that are going to get an AI layer? Like do you count those when it's like just literally on autopilot and literally there's just new AI features baked in that they're already paying for so they begin using them? Well, those are going to be successful because it's literally just an extension of what they're currently doing. Everything will get an AI layer this year.
Speaker: Or at least every major tech company will have this AI thing, if not this year, the next year. Most companies are doing it.
Speaker: I'm going to get the, I think it was Gartner that kind of put AI into two camps, you know, your everyday AI, which I would say what you're talking about right now, this AI layer on all the tools that we're already using would be considered AI, yeah, everyday AI. We're just going to really intuitively start using these. We were already using AI, you know, we've been using it for longer than we really think about or realize.
Speaker: But then you kind of cross the line into these game -changing AI applications of fundamentally changing our offerings, what we create, the value we bring to our customers. When you switch over to game -changing AI, I think that is where your failure rate, he made the prediction of 90%. Obviously, only time will tell, especially at this early stage.
Speaker: If you're in the camp that is successful with it, I can assure you the risk is going to pay a strong reward. Yeah. Have you heard of the IA acronym? No. Okay. This is a new thing that I found from another podcast that I get to host and produce that's talking a lot about AI on the sales front called Close Mode.
Speaker: But one of the things that's come up over there, um, is this difference between artificial intelligence and intelligent automation. Okay. Um, and intelligent automation is using AI, but using it in a way that just extends natural automation. Like it's just automating manual tasks.
Speaker: AI is really good at that and it and because AI is so good it's it's filling in a lot of gaps that we had in just your normal algorithmic lead automation and your database and fields and being able to inject things like mad libs like and that's how that's how
Speaker: Automation works, you know, you're able to do at first name, right? And, you know, and insert their job title into an email. But now you can do a step farther by running it, sending some data points to open AI, send it back to your database, the capture response. And now you can open up with kind of a custom intro that's customized for them because of those few unique data points. Is that AI or is that just intelligent automation?
Speaker: Right. And that's why they're differentiating intelligent automation from AI, because like what you guys are working at at known well, now that's, that's AI. Because where they're defining AI is different is where you're imbuing machines with human like thinking. It's like a next level. It's not AGI where they're thinking for themselves, but it's starting to replicate much more creative expressions, much more
Speaker: strategic and analytical expressions like known well as doing for customer service and giving back insights. Now that's what they're calling AI. So those are two different things and it's kind of helpful to have some categories and ways of thinking it and approaching it when it comes to these tools and how they're playing out. They'll hit marketing too. Yeah, that's really interesting. I think that
Speaker: In general, I feel like right now we are all reaching for, okay, how do we frame up this technology so that we understand it more clearly? And so we can disseminate that information throughout our organization and our teams. You know, it's just, it's so new. It's, you know, every time we kind of feel like, okay, we have a model to kind of think about AI, understand, you know, generative AI against
Speaker: Oh my gosh. Why can't I think of the three types, the different types of AI in this moment? Okay. Oh, okay. I got it. You know, generative AI versus machine learning and just all the different nuances to AI, but then all the different levels and how it applies to our organization. I just find at this moment, we're, you know, we're all grappling with how do we frame this up so we can think about it smart and train other people on it.
Speaker: I love it though. This is the most exciting part to me is because it's like we've just discovered the Americas and we don't know what's in land. We're going down the coast right now and we're just starting to go in. It's a map. No one's made the map yet. So the people who get to make the map are the people who forge in and then other people are going to follow behind them. Some people's maps will be better than others. The people who experiment and test the most will get to make the map.
Speaker: That is so good. And I will add to your analogy that there's probably some things at that moment when we discovered the Americas that we wish we could have done differently. And so it's as we're at this moment, we know we're just at the cusp of it. How do we make sure that we do it well, that we don't look back and think, wow, we really messed that up? I mean, I think we would even
Speaker: you know, a more recent technology with social media, I think, hey, there's some things we would have done differently, could have done differently if we would have, you know, some things we didn't know. But I do think we feel the weight of this moment and the potential. And I think for leaders, especially being able to sit in the middle of that, the balance of that great opportunity and great responsibility
Speaker: and go forth. It's just, it is, I know you and I, we're both so excited about this moment in time. Yep. It's going to be exciting. It's going to be scary, but it's, it's going to be, so you might as well be prepared for it is what I keep telling myself. So true.
Speaker: In having this conversation, I think it will be pervasive and everyone's going to have to lead the AI initiative. Marketing is going to have to own it. Sales is going to have to own it. HR is going to have to own it. I think there probably does need to be a centralized piece. The more we've talked about it, the more I'm starting to realize if there's not a chief AI officer, I'm starting to realize that it's probably the CIO.
Speaker: In talking about it, I'm like, you know what, the more, the way AI becomes like increasingly. Competitive for the organization is not based on how it's, it's, it's based on how well AI is implemented, but the secret sauce to AI is in the data.
Speaker: right? The more you can integrate data into it, which is an information piece, even at known well, like known well can only make strategic choices based on how well the data is input organized, and then made accessible for AI. The more I work even with just custom GPTs, the secret sauce is in the knowledge you load into it.
Speaker: right? Even if you're writing a blog post, the secret sauce is the transcript you give it or the information you're giving it to repurpose versus just having it create stuff. Because anybody can do that. But where it becomes really competitive for organizations is based on how well you're leveraging the data that you have. I mean, imagine like Walmart starts to leverage their massive data centers and has AI to use it like
Speaker: that starts to become a really cool, interesting tool. And then especially if you allow inputs for all the different departments to access that data through AI in different ways, I'm like, I'm starting to see the CIO as the kind of like, the chief, probably the department, if it sits anywhere, it's probably going to send it out of that department because the data becomes such a critical component.
Speaker: Yeah, I think that is true. I would love for you to have a conversation with our chief product officer, Mohan Rao, because he is especially on the data piece. And even the way that we think of, hey, having clean data and our data governance is going to change with AI. And I actually think this is an area where especially for smaller businesses, we can have a technology jump.
Speaker: Um, in new ways, it's very interesting. And I would say for small, especially marketers on small teams, AI is going to give you the ability to punch way above your weight. Unlike ever before it is, it's going to be incredible. I think, especially for small and medium sized businesses in a brand new way. Yeah. And just to, I, I think it's a really interesting, the CIO is a really interesting,
Speaker: you know, supposition that that's where it sits. I, my one caveat with that is the change management, the actual rallying of people to leverage the technology in the organization. And certainly I'm sure there are CIOs out there that have that skillset. I don't know how many there are. And so how do you pair them with the person that can do that really well or
Speaker: You know, is there another combination? Again, this, I feel like the skill set that we're looking for feels a little bit like a unicorn or just that they're not a lot of them. So man, if you're listening right now and you have these type of skill sets, come work at knownwell.
Speaker: Marketing will probably be, I mean, like you said before, marketing will be a front runner in this thing. And I think that's good. I think marketers are the ones who like to test out new things. AI is obviously, as soon as it came out, people are like, oh, shoot, I can make content with this. Marketers were the first ones to find applications for it.
Speaker: I think that becomes important as your organization starts to make the leap. Marketers need to be the champions pushing it forward, but they can't own it alone. I think that's the lesson from this episode is marketing. You have to lead the charge because you're the one to use probably one of the first to really utilize it first, but you have to know that it's going to affect everything. If it's going to impact the whole company that you're a part of,
Speaker: you might as well start collaborating and selling the seeds of other people getting involved in it and the cio and. You know the big champion if the company is going to implement it well across the board then there's only one champion.
Speaker: It's the CEO, right? If it's going to be that big, then there's only one person who can really champion it across the whole department and it has to be the CEO, has to be the one pushing it through. If the CEO doesn't, then it'll be half implemented and implementation will be only as good as the department leaders will make it. Yeah, I totally agree. I think that
Speaker: There is certainly a bottom -up movement right now, I think because of where this has originated on a, you know, individual execution level. I think certainly CEOs are aware of AI. I mean, everybody is aware of AI. If the Super Bowl commercials are, you know, dominated by AI commercials, everybody is aware of AI.
Speaker: But I think this is a really unique moment where the bottom -up can be speaking into it and really leveraging how important this is for there to be a top -down response and a real strategic emphasis on how it's deployed in the organization. I'm really excited for marketers to play a big role in that. That's going to be the leadership challenge, managing bottom -up and top -down.
Speaker: Yeah, because it has to be both and that's yeah change management. That's gonna be the tricky part Yeah, so marketers this is your time to shine Start facilitating because you're in the middle like from the top to the bottom start pulling things together Be the key I mean marketers could be the case study for how to do it from the very top to the bottom and start implementing it there and
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. Not that they get to own it, own it for the whole company, but if you can pull it from the bottom and help your individual contributors manage it well and start being trained in it and leveraging it and then getting the CEO involved and interested in how marketing's leading it, then I'm like, that really starts to become a catalyst because other departments can leverage it the same way. Yeah. I totally agree. I think it's our moment. It's your moment.
Speaker: Let's go do it. This is our marketing pep talk moment with Courtney and Dan.
Speaker: Well, Courtney, thanks so much for joining me a second round. I was so excited to have this conversation. I feel like I've just unlocked a bunch of new ideas in my head that I'm like, yes, this is how it has to be, or could be at least. There's probably going to be, I always am a fan of like the fact that there's, there's many ways to win. There's also many ways to lose. So, uh, but I think this marketing leading the charge top bottom up, uh, top down and bottom up kind of approach would is, is helpful. Yeah. And can I just one more caveat to why that may be the case?
Speaker: I think anytime you can put revenue dollars behind a project, you're more likely to get it going faster. And it's so easy to sell, especially if your organization is a little hesitant or hasn't really taken the charge from the top down on AI, being able to sell an experiment that drives revenue in your organization.
Speaker: It's a really easy place to start. And that's marketing, sales, that's you. You know, you're the ones that get to really lead that. And again, it's your moment. There you have it.
