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Actionable AI: Systems, Workflows, and Mindset Shifts
2 Plays33 seconds ago
In this episode of the AI-Driven Marketer, Dan Sanchez joins host Audrey Chia to share his journey from early AI experimentation to building custom GPTs and automating the majority of his podcast workflow. They dive into practical, everyday AI use cases that marketers may be overlooking, explore how businesses can implement conversational AI for customer engagement, and discuss trends shaping the future of marketing teams in the age of AI. Dan also breaks down the art of prompting, reveals his favorite deep research prompt, and unpacks the mindset shifts marketers need to thrive alongside AI. Tune in for actionable insights and thought-provoking advice to help you supercharge your marketing with AI today.
Timestamps:
- ChatGPT: https://chat.openai.com
- Claude: https://claude.ai
- Google Gemini: https://gemini.google.com
- Grok: https://grok.x.ai
- NotebookLM: https://notebooklm.google
- Sesame: https://sesame.com (URL mentioned as sesame.com; specific product page not given)
- Zencastr: https://zencastr.com
- Riverside: https://riverside.fm
- My Showrunner (custom GPT & open source instructions): https://myshowrunner.com
- AI Driven Marketer podcast: https://aidrivenmarketer.com
- LinkedIn (Dan Sanchez’s profile): https://linkedin.com/in/digitalmarketingdan
Timestamps:
- 00:00 Delayed Adoption of ChatGPT for Growth
- 05:10 ChatGPT: Home Project Assistant
- 08:36 AI Phone Assistant for Businesses
- 11:46 AI-Induced Job Reductions Trend
- 15:07 Marketers' Basic AI Usage
- 18:52 AI Proficiency: Paid Tools and Custom Bots
- 21:49 AI Workflow Efficiency Mindset
- 23:16 Streamlining Success with Clear Guidelines
- 27:37 Effective Research Guidance for Marketers
- 32:52 "Balancing AI: Skepticism & Friendliness"
- 36:25 Experienced Wisdom vs. AI Intuition
- 37:50 "Exploring AI Image Generation"
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Episode
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the AI Driven Marketer. I'm Dan Sanchez. and My friends call me Danchez. And today i wanted to syndicate an episode where I had a chance to be a guest on the AI Marketers Playbook podcast with Audrey Chia.
00:00:15
Speaker
Now we talked about a number of different things. actionable AI tactics that you could be using in your world as a marketer today. So I wanted to syndicate it here. I asked for permission and she allowed me to syndicate it. So go check out her podcast where any podcast is available. Again, it is the AI Marketers Playbook.
00:00:32
Speaker
So go check out her podcast and enjoy this episode. Thank you for being on. We would love to know more about you. How did you get started and you know in this crazy world of AI?
Challenges in Audience Growth
00:00:45
Speaker
Man, I think I got started like a lot of people. We heard about ChatGPT. We experimented with it. We found out how cool it was. I actually didn't take action on it for a full year.
00:00:56
Speaker
It came out, what, like November of 2022? It wasn't until December of 2023. And i was trying to make it work as a freelance, not as a freelancer, but as a consultant, doing all kinds of things around the topic of audience growth.
00:01:11
Speaker
And I found out that audience growth is a great thing. people Everybody wants to have a large audience. Businesses love having a big audience, but it takes too long, it costs too much, and takes too much time from their people.
00:01:22
Speaker
And they're like i I literally had so many people tell me that after I'm like, look, I can help you grow this amazing audience. And so it was December of 2023 and I was like, you know what? I'm just going to have to build one myself.
Genesis of AI Marketing Podcast
00:01:33
Speaker
What topic should I double down on? I'm like, you know, this AI thing, man, I feel like I'm just seeing the writing on the wall. Like this is going to take over everything. I wonder what podcasts are out there about it. So I went searching for some podcasts and could hardly find any dedicated to just marketing. There's lots of AI podcasts just talking about the ethereal, all the Terminator scenario.
00:01:55
Speaker
But I was like, who's out there doing some practical stuff that I can actually learn from? Because this AI thing is going to be big. Who's out there doing the work, testing things, showcasing what worked, what didn't? you know, from a marketing perspective.
00:02:07
Speaker
And I just couldn't really find any good shows. There's maybe like four or five. And so I was like, well, I'm a podcaster. Maybe this is the thing. And so I rolled up my sleeves and I started just interviewing people that were doing cool stuff. And I started building my own custom GPTs had just launched onto the scene back then. So I started building those, experimenting, making some cool stuff, sometimes failing, and trying to, spending a lot of hours trying to make something work all to find out it, it can't.
00:02:35
Speaker
It's funny, a lot of those early experiments now work because the models have just gotten better, so that's kind of cool. But man, it's just been a lot of trial and error, just putting in the time and is and his other...
00:02:46
Speaker
podcasts and YouTube channels came about, you know, you stay up to date with the information. As books come out, you read them. mostly just trial and error experimenting, finding all the different things that I know about marketing and seeing how well AI could do it if you put it to the test.
00:03:00
Speaker
And so I've documented the journey on the AI-driven marketer. and don't do a lot of interviews anymore, but now I'm i'm sharing show sharing everything I've learned. And I continue to find new ways of incorporating AI into different parts of the marketing journey.
00:03:13
Speaker
So it's been it's been quite a ride. Yeah, it's been wild, right? And I think it's amazing because there is no playbook. So you are literally writing the playbook and teaching and sharing it as you journey along. And because AI is always evolving, you get so many different insights and you're like, okay, maybe I can do it this way.
00:03:31
Speaker
maybe Maybe I can do it that
Practical Everyday AI Uses
00:03:33
Speaker
way. And I know since you've experimented with you know so many tools and workflows, what are perhaps a few interesting use cases that you know people may not know of? you know it's funny, the most interesting ones, that at least the ones that people go crazy for when I post about them on LinkedIn are like the everyday use cases.
00:03:50
Speaker
Sure, like everybody likes the fully automated podcast sequence and that's really cool. But like oftentimes I just post about the simple things that people are like, Whoa. I just got back from Home Depot. It is like 9.07 p.m. I was just at Home Depot an hour ago, and I pulled up to the paint. I just bought ah ah like a tester can of paint.
00:04:08
Speaker
I'm like, has anybody been in here telling you that ChatGPT told them to buy a color? He's like, no. I'm like, you will. Let me show you something. I pull up my phone. You know, the guy who mixes the paint behind the counter. I'm like, I took a picture of my guest room and said, hey, ChatGPT, make it more adventurous. That's kind of the theme I was going for, but it was like half done. It wasn't finished. You know, I needed and need an interior designer to be like, no, these curtains, this rug, this pillow, repaint the walls. You know, I needed that, but I didn't know how to put the bow on. I didn't know how to finish it.
00:04:37
Speaker
ChatGPT, no problem makes a little image recreates my room yeah the the window in the background moved more but like for the most part it was the room and it was redecorated to look more adventurous and of course i asked chat gpt what color did you paint the walls there Give it to me in Home Depot Bear, which is a ah brand of paint.
00:04:59
Speaker
And it gave me all the color codes of what to look for. I just i just bought a can of the exact paint it told me to buy. I'm like, yep, this is exactly what needed to happen. I wondered, but now I know. Now that I saw the picture of it completed, I'm like, hey, make me an Amazon shopping list of all these items. It got about half of them right. Some of them were like needed different colors, but it did remarkably well.
00:05:18
Speaker
It's use cases like that that people don't even think to apply it to. I use ChatGPT to help me fix anything. Anytime I get stuck, it could be a little relational thing like, huh, I need to respond to so-and-so, but I'm not sure how to respond to this particular email.
00:05:34
Speaker
What are some different approaches I could take, ChatGPT? Here's some approaches. Here's the one I would recommend. You're like, huh, thanks. And that's the answer. i've I was worrying about it all day. i should have just asked earlier, and now I would have been worried about it all day.
00:05:48
Speaker
It's fixing little things, and it could just be software. Like, right, we have Riverside that we're working with here. I've worked with Riverside a lot. I personally use Zencaster the most, but sometimes I have internet or bandwidth problems.
00:05:59
Speaker
ChatGPT is like an IT t tech support that you have available 365. Need to pull open the camera app so it can see something? Great, you can troubleshoot it together. No more wandering through forums of trying to find that one fix for the exact software you have.
00:06:15
Speaker
can work on it with you. And it's like all those little in-between things that I find is actually becoming really helpful for on a daily basis. But naturally, it's really, really good at a lot of marketing tasks as well.
Implementing AI in Business
00:06:27
Speaker
Speaking of marketing tasks, right, I know businesses think of AI either as this solution that replaces their entire team, or they're on the fence and they're like, I am not sure about it. Let's just not let anyone leverage AI at all.
00:06:40
Speaker
But I think there is a sweet spot in between where businesses are trying to implement AI. What are perhaps some you know use cases that businesses can already adopt like today in their marketing workflows?
00:06:53
Speaker
I think one of the most powerful ones is one that I had a very particular pain point at, especially when i was working at a small university just five five years ago, and we were crushing it on Facebook ads. So many leads.
00:07:09
Speaker
Couldn't call them all. Couldn't follow up with them all. They all had questions. i so i couldn't man the site chat long enough hours to answer all the inbound questions. It killed me as a marketing director to know how many awesome leads I was generating. Only for them to just get called back six months or six weeks later. I'm like, six weeks? They forgot by then. That's dead. That is a cold, dead lead.
00:07:31
Speaker
Hundreds of leads. I wish I would have had ChatGPT then because I could have had it managing the phone, at least the inbound phone calls, at least the site chat, at least the text messages coming through because we were using texting back then, but we couldn't automate like and answer all the basic questions, get people scheduled with the real humans.
00:07:49
Speaker
Man, that's probably one of the easiest things is just to manage, have essentially a lot of even small businesses, they don't put a phone number, but a lot of times people like to call in and ask questions. An AI solution for that can handle all of that.
00:08:02
Speaker
Whether it's a simple site chat that's been trained on all your documentation and all your websites so it can answer questions relatively well, because sometimes people don't like navigating your website. Or is actually a phone number, all local businesses, or a lot, most companies don't have a put phone number. It's like, you need to have a phone number across the top of your website so it can answer basic questions about your business.
00:08:21
Speaker
And that's an easy thing that AI can now do, even with voice. Well, you can even say, hi, I'm calling in, or you're calling in, and you say, hi, i'm I'm Dan's AI assistant, but I'm here to answer any questions. I've been trained on all of Dan's work and about Dan himself.
00:08:35
Speaker
How can I help you? And it goes and answers questions. And of course, when it doesn't run into something like, yeah, let me book you a call with Dan. What's your email? What's your phone number? Great. What's a good time? ah You have a good time available this week? Dan's usually available in the afternoons.
00:08:50
Speaker
Like that is such a great thing to be able to feed people into, especially if you don't have the man hours to be able to supply all the all the inbound that you're generating. But that's kind of a quick and easy thing you can do. The software to put that together is not complicated.
00:09:04
Speaker
You literally just say, hey, read these pages of the website. Here's some PDFs. Answer the phone like this. Try to book appointments. Done. It's usually pretty simple. Yeah. And I think the beautiful part is AI is getting more and more human-like. So even when you are speaking to and AI on the phone, it can sound, um know, really human-like. Notebook LM, for example, I think the podcast host generated by Notebook LM is pretty good, no? Have you heard Oh, yeah. I love Notebook LM, and it sounds very human. It's not the most human one I've heard so far.
00:09:37
Speaker
There is another one called Sesame. Have you heard of that one? No. Oh, man. Go to Sesame. I think it's Sesame.com, and it is the most realistic. You can have a live conversation with it. It is way more human-sounding than ChatGPT's advanced voice mode.
00:09:52
Speaker
It's in a research, but you can demo it right there and keep a recording of the of the call. It sounds humid. It has all those little like mouth noises, pauses, all the little like it can laugh.
00:10:05
Speaker
It can have way more intonation in its voice. It can go fast or slow it down a little bit. You know, it's like all those little things that only humans can do where chat GPT's advanced voice mode, as good as it is, is doesn't do that. it's It's very static in how it talks, right? Yeah. And then think it's very interesting to see how the AI landscape has evolved so much in the past two years, right?
00:10:26
Speaker
ImageGen has really transformed. Copy that used to sound like an intern now becomes like a senior, like mid-level copywriter. And you can already see how it has evolved so rapidly in this space, right?
00:10:41
Speaker
Do you think that marketing is going to change forever? And if it is, what do you think the future of marketing is going to look like?
Future of AI in Marketing
00:10:49
Speaker
so hard to predict the future, but I think marketing will change dramatically. Dramatically will look very different five years from now.
00:10:57
Speaker
So there's kind of two different paths, two major paths it can go. And it could be, it's most likely to be somewhere in between. So pessimistic path. lots of jobs get eliminated. Like 80% of jobs get eliminated because let's be honest, if you have 10 marketers on the team and two of them like can 10X their work, even 5X their work.
00:11:20
Speaker
well you Well, you don't need 10 anymore. Two of them can do the work of 10 people now. So why would they keep everybody else? Chances are a lot of companies just won't fire everybody either. If we go down that route, the good companies will just won't hire anybody. anymore They'll continue to grow.
00:11:38
Speaker
And then as people, you know, leave for better jobs or get fired because they they did something bad, they they just won't replace them. So eventually you'll go from 10 to maybe like five.
00:11:50
Speaker
A few stay on, two become really good. A third becomes ah ah pretty good but with AI tools. And they're the ones just kind of we'll just keep them around because we don't want to say we're firing people because AI. So there's going to be a lot of job loss. That's the pessimistic route.
00:12:04
Speaker
On the optimistic route, You know, historically, there's always been more jobs available every time a new technology comes around. That was true of every single innovation we've ever had.
00:12:16
Speaker
It makes more jobs. We just don't know what all those new jobs are going to be on the other side of this huge AI revolution. Either way, you're probably going to need to know AI because the few jobs that are left are going to be AI-driven ones.
00:12:30
Speaker
All the new jobs... are probably going to be AI driven ones, but it's probably going to be somewhere in between those jobs. The one thing I'm pretty certain of is that they're probably going to be AI driven. Definitely. I think I've spoken to quite a few like teams, right? So sales enablement teams that used to be 10 people, you know, large, right?
00:12:48
Speaker
Now just have to be replaced by one person and they are a sales enabled AI engineer. So they don't even have to be the one prospecting or doing the outreach, right? They can just be a single person who's able to manage the AI workflows that gets the prospecting done. And I think that's, I think what we're going to see a lot more of when you have an AI powered, you know, marketer or content strategist who manages different workflows ah ah instead of like team members per se.
00:13:18
Speaker
yeah Yeah, no, and it's going to get even crazier as the agents that's actually start to become more than just automations with AI baked into it And they actually become much more agentic and they can take action by themselves. They can log into your browser and do do tasks across different tools that you have.
00:13:35
Speaker
That's not long from now. That's maybe looking at something decent by the end of the year, let alone two years from now. You're like, my gosh. It's going to be like having full employees around. And the people aren't wrong in expecting AI to do the work of a full employee. my the The drum I keep banging is like, don't let go of your people.
00:13:54
Speaker
Because AI will never be like a person. AI doesn't have experience. AI's never felt the pain of your customer or their hopes and dreams. It can't really empathize. It can fake empathy, but it's never actually felt anything.
00:14:08
Speaker
It just is. It's just math predicting what words to say next. So because of that, there's a lot of power in having human humans run the scene.
00:14:19
Speaker
And maybe they don't hire as fast, but I'm always telling people, be human first, but AI driven. That's going to be the ones who win, i in my opinion. Given that you have spoken to quite a number of different guests on your podcast, and you yourself have experimented with so many different AI tools, what are some perhaps trends you have been seeing in the marketing space?
Current AI Uses in Marketing
00:14:39
Speaker
With AI tools? Yes, with AI tools, workflows, or just in general, how people are using it? Most people are using AI in really basic ways.
00:14:49
Speaker
The most common things that marketers are using it for is what I call the co-pilot feature. Like they're using it to ideate, to brainstorm, to even say, hey, like what would it be a normal thing here?
00:15:00
Speaker
they're talking to it and using it as almost like an administrative assistant. The other big piece marketers use it for is for content creation. So they're using it to write emails, to write sequences, text messages, ad copy, all that kind of stuff. Those are the two major ways marketers use AI.
00:15:16
Speaker
There's quite a few more ways they could be using AI, but those are the two ways they're using it predominantly. I'm trying to help them see how they can use it in more ways. I'm like, come on, guys. we Yes, it writes good content. Yes, we can do some social media with it, but there's so much more.
00:15:33
Speaker
Conversational AI was the one that I mentioned earlier that I was like, most people aren't using that, but they should be. Yeah. And what do you think is that next level unlock? I know you mentioned conversational AI, but what what is that potential that people aren't tapping into right now?
00:15:48
Speaker
I think a big one is hyper-personalization. That one's a little bit more advanced because you have to start thinking about how to prompt programmatically. it's a little scary to have AI send something on your behalf that is not seen by human.
00:16:03
Speaker
But, but that's where this is more advanced. So you have to be pretty good at engineering prompts. This is where the engineering parts, most of the time with like chat GPT, you could just have like a natural conversation with it. It's going to figure out what you want. Just give it more context.
00:16:15
Speaker
Talk to it like a human. But when you're building hyper personalized campaigns, for example, i have an email nurture sequence that shows people the fundamentals of AI. Great course.
00:16:26
Speaker
But a part of the every single email has a custom action plan just for that one individual based on their job title, what they sell and who they sell to. It actually takes the lesson and customizes it just for them. ChatGPT through the API writes it and customizes. So every single action plan is unique.
00:16:44
Speaker
An email marketing specialist selling software to B2B clients will have a very different action plan than a CMO who maybe works at a beauty company selling to teenagers.
00:16:55
Speaker
They're have different action plans. So I think we'll see more and more of that to build better nurture campaigns. I'm just now finishing a sale sequence that customizes the whole sale sequence based on just a few attributes they give me in a form. So I'm really excited about that kind of work now.
00:17:12
Speaker
And I think it's very interesting that you're combining not just, you know, AI to create content at scale, but then to then add the additional layer of, Hey, I'm speaking to you as an individual, and I understand your
Hyper-Personalized Marketing
00:17:24
Speaker
needs and pain points. And that makes marketing so much sharper, right? It makes it so much.
00:17:29
Speaker
more powerful and this is something that you would not have been able to do as a single person you know back when there wasn't ai i've also noticed myself that even though there are so many different tools and functions available it seems like a lot of people are getting very overwhelmed by all the information and new tools how do you keep up and you know manage all these new nuggets of information that's popping out every single day Well, this is kind of my full-time thing.
00:17:59
Speaker
That is also true. For most people, most ah ah just realize that almost everything they hear is truly hype. like it it's It's either stuff that doesn't work or it's a preview of what's to come.
00:18:15
Speaker
Only a small percentage of percentage of it is useful for them right now. where to find the useful stuff. That's generally what I'm trying to do as a marketer is scan through it all, test stuff, and then bring stuff to people as fast as possible. And that's what I'm trying to do.
00:18:30
Speaker
um there's other creators just like me out there that are doing that same thing of trying to scan all through the hype, pick out the one thing you're like this, do this now. Generally, for most people, I'm just recommending like, I when someone asked me where they're at with AI, my first question is, do you pay for chat GPT?
00:18:48
Speaker
If you do not pay for ChatGPT or a similar tool, could be Claude, could be Gemini, could be Grok, that's fine. you're not paying for it, then you're still in the beginner mode. That means you're not quite using it enough to make that $20 month a no-brainer.
00:19:02
Speaker
If you are paying for chat GPT, my next question is, cool, have you built a custom GPT yet? yeah This is the next level of sophistication because now you're starting to think of like, not just how do I ask it one time for something, but how do I build a system so when I ask it, I don't have to include the same context over and over again.
00:19:21
Speaker
Or you take it a step farther and in custom GPT, you can build out multi-step processes that remembers, oh, when they asked me when the person asks me for this, give them this and then give them this.
00:19:33
Speaker
And then when they prompt me to go farther, do this. You can literally break down whole projects this way. things that like i that Things that used to take me an hour, I can now get done in less than five minutes. Can I give you an example?
00:19:44
Speaker
Yes, you would love to hear it. One of my favorite custom GPTs is called My Showrunner. I've actually released the whole showrunner. So if you want to see the instructions that powers it, so you can either steal it, build it for yourself, customize it, or just see how I did it.
00:19:59
Speaker
As an example, you can go to myshowrunner.com and see the full example. So I just open sourced this. I'm like, here, look at the instructions. Steal this. It's essentially something I use to prep for podcast interviews like this one, right? Because before you get on a call, you kind of have to look at the guest.
00:20:15
Speaker
And I like to look up the guests, think about the angle of the show, come up with some titles, pick a title so I know like what I'm shooting for here. And then based on that title, usually come up with like an intro, like you read at the very beginning, and a set of questions, maybe with an outro.
00:20:31
Speaker
maybe in an email to send to the guest. My showrunner comes up with a whole of that. And I start it by just copying and pasting the LinkedIn profile of the person I want to interview. I'm like, hey, paste.
00:20:41
Speaker
It's like, oh, you're interviewing Dan today. Great. Looks like they're into X, Y, and Z. What angle do you want to take for the show? And so I give an angle and it asks, great, based on that angle and based on your show premise, these are 10 titles that I think would work really well.
00:21:02
Speaker
After that, you pick a title and it's like, great, based on that title, show title, based on that premise, based on the direction of your show in general, here's a full outline. And it just does this really fast. I'm literally just saying, yes, no, this one, that one. I'm i'm just barely, I'm just giving it input.
00:21:18
Speaker
I'm just reacting to what it gives me. And what used to take me 45 minutes, 60 minutes to do show prep, now it just takes five minutes. And it's so beautiful because you are breaking down your own workflows and thought process because even without AI, you would have to go through this process. Just that now with AI, you're condensing that workflow into something that AI can run for you like just in a snap, right?
00:21:40
Speaker
i I have seen like so much time savings myself just by thinking about GPTs. And I don't think it's about building the GPT per se, but the thought behind it like, okay,
00:21:52
Speaker
What are my steps in my daily processes and what can help me to get there a lot faster? And I think that this is a mindset that people you know need to adopt moving forward.
00:22:02
Speaker
But then curious to know your thoughts on perhaps what are some mindset shifts that people need to make or you know the frame of mind they need to have? Because I know AI is more than a skill set, right? It's also yeah what's over here.
00:22:16
Speaker
I think exactly what you just said is the mindset shift. shift shift Thinking about how to take your projects and thinking about it like a system. I was a highly technical marketer, but I think the work that I was doing before this that best prepared me for working with AI was actually working in an internship, not just being an intern. I've been been an intern, but actually I managed a team of interns at that same university I mentioned earlier. I had a team of about 23 students.
00:22:44
Speaker
I had a couple of staff members helping me manage this whole team, but... The only way I was able to grow to actually utilize them, actually put them to work so that they were productive, writing blog posts that weren't just good, they were great. They were ranking number one on Google for lots of art keywords.
00:22:59
Speaker
They were coming up with better social content. They were coming up with videos. They were doing a lot of great work. The only way I was able to do that was having very clearly defined job descriptions, very clearly defined standard operating procedures.
00:23:13
Speaker
And I would run them through it every, because I'd have to, I'd get a whole new group of students every September. And I'd have to onboard them, train them on the mission of the institution, how it connected to marketing and what we were trying to accomplish, how what their specific job was connected back to the mission and everything, like working it down and then being like, okay, now that you understand the context of your job and what you're trying to do, let's work on your main task that you were going to be working on every day for the next year.
00:23:39
Speaker
Here's how it goes. This is the very, very simple step-by-step instructions on how to write a blog post that's so good that it beats out everybody else's blog posts on Google. You'd think it'd be hard, but it actually can be broken down into very small, little, tiny baby steps.
00:23:54
Speaker
If you can do that and break your job down into baby steps, you'd be surprised how many of those baby steps AI can do. You only probably need to take 20% of them. AI can handle the rest, and it's amazing.
00:24:06
Speaker
And I think it's the ability to create the right brief. I think from my experience, even as a copywriter, being able to brief AI in a very detailed, specific manner often gets you the best result.
00:24:21
Speaker
And I feel like copywriting is in fact a form or actually prompting is i felt a form of copywriting. That's to me like yeah a very interesting kind of point of view of like, okay, if I can learn how to write copy, I can learn how to
Effective Prompting Techniques
00:24:35
Speaker
prompt, right? And you have to go through the same kind of mental workflows for that.
00:24:39
Speaker
Because good copywriting is clarity, right? It's clear communication. In fact, it's some of the most clear communication. I love reading books who are written by copywriters, even if they're not teaching copy, because they're some of the most clear, they're some of the most articulate and clear communicators.
00:24:57
Speaker
No word goes to waste from a copywriter. Because all market good all good marketers know, like, the less the more simple you can make it without losing its substance, the more likely you are to help them see your point of view, and the more likely you are to actually sell them the thing.
00:25:11
Speaker
So copywriters are very good at clear communication. That's what prompting is. You're communicating very clearly. Oftentimes, when I have to go and re-engineer a prompt because maybe it's gone astray somewhere, Generally, I'm like, where was I unclear? this is a little ambiguous. Let's tighten that up a little bit and chest that.
00:25:27
Speaker
So clear communication is a big one. And I think copywriters do have an advantage there. Yeah, it's a I have noticed it even with my copywriting peers. And you can see the way they think, the way they structure the prompts.
00:25:39
Speaker
There is a system and a madness and to the methodology, but which is very interesting to see how it applies from our workflows, into our AI workflows. And speaking of which right then, we would love to also take a peek at, you know, the prompts that you keep talking about. You talked about the importance and significance of prompting and you also talked about how perhaps robust it has to be in order to get you ah ah great output.
00:26:03
Speaker
Could you show us an example of that? There's one prompt I'd love to show you, and it's one that I've worked over and over again. and I just find this works particularly well. Now, in general, when it comes to prompt engineering, most of the time, I don't really think you really need to engineer prompts much anymore.
00:26:21
Speaker
think you could just give ChatGPT your context. Now, if you're building a custom GPT and it's multi-step, then you probably do have to tighten it up quite a bit. If you're doing an automation, then you really have to tighten it up because you need consistency in those automations in order for them to be useful.
00:26:35
Speaker
There's one other place where I think you need tight prompts, and that's working with ChatGPT or any of the other tools, Deep Research. With Deep Research, it's actually, think about it less like a prompt and more like a project brief.
00:26:49
Speaker
You wouldn't give an employee a whole week's worth of work without giving them a pretty dang good idea of what success looks like. This is what you're doing with the deep research. it's Yes, it's spending 20, 30 minutes to go to work, so it doesn't seem like it's doing a lot, but I think if you gave this project to a human, it'd probably be 20 to 30 hours worth of work for them to create a comparable report.
00:27:11
Speaker
You'd probably need to give them a brief of exactly what you're looking for in order for them to be able to do a good job. This is one of my favorite prompts, and I find it's the most useful for marketers, especially content marketers. Let me share it with you now.
00:27:23
Speaker
just going to open it up so everybody can actually see it. in this keynote presentation I have. I so often tell people to steal this prompt if they're in a in a crowd or if I'm speaking on stage, i'm like, take out your phones and take a picture. This is the time.
00:27:36
Speaker
Here's the prompt. Identify the most frequent questions your insert target audience is asking about your topic of expertise. Source these questions from social media, forums, Reddit, Quora, and other relevant online form platforms.
00:27:49
Speaker
Format the report clearly with written summary, a summary table categorizing and ranking questions by frequency in clearly labeled sections for each category, including an analysis of and 12 bullet points that represent direct quotes with their sources.
00:28:04
Speaker
What this creates is all the most frequently asked questions your target audience is actually asking about the thing that you do. This gives you a report that tells you exactly what kind of content you need to be working on, whether it's short form, long term,
00:28:24
Speaker
this This gives you the thing that you need to actually create your content calendar around because if they're asking questions about it, you have a pretty high assurance that it's going to be relevant when you answer it.
00:28:36
Speaker
So I love starting with a prompt like this one. i actually i have a whole library of prompts just for deep research like this one to do audience analysis. this one's my favorite one because I find questions are one of the most powerful ways to form like a hypothesis around around what kind of content you need to be creating.
00:28:55
Speaker
And I think what's great about that is even though it seems like such a short prompt, but the thought behind the prompt actually goes beyond just the simple structure of that prompt. And you you can tell that the way that you have formed the prompt,
00:29:11
Speaker
You are very precise in the questions that you want answered with the sources that you're looking for and the output that you want so that after ai runs this prompt, you get the answers you need for the next step in your marketing journey.
00:29:26
Speaker
Right. This one, every really good prompt you start with and then you find that i'm like it wasn't quite and you modify it and then you modify it and you start over, you start over. With deep research, it takes longer because it takes 20 to 30 minutes to find out if the prompt worked or not.
00:29:42
Speaker
So this one took a lot of time. I upgraded a chat GPT is $200 a month account just so I could refine this particular one and a few others like it. because with plus you only get what 10 of these. No, I think you get more. I think you actually get like, I forgot the amount now it might be 10 a week or something like that. So you get a lot more of these with chat GPT plus now, but at the beginning you only had 10 of these a month. You're like, well, don't want to waste it.
00:30:06
Speaker
But when you had like 120 of them, you're I could test over and over again and still have enough. Yeah. And I'm so curious to know, right, what is one of perhaps the most surprising thing you've discovered during the process of like prompting, of like testing out different tools?
00:30:22
Speaker
Maybe one interesting thing that you perhaps have found during that process?
Addressing AI Bias
00:30:27
Speaker
One of the most interesting things I found about was something that's a little scary that most people aren't aware of with ChatGPT. it's something all marketers, anybody who actually spends a good amount of time with any of the AI software programs out there should be aware of.
00:30:43
Speaker
And that's that AI is actually a confirmation bias machine. What people don't realize is that we all kind of found out a few weeks ago when we learned all learned in the AI community this word called sycophanty, which generally means...
00:30:57
Speaker
The AI is so over eager to please you and help you that it's generally being overly like, like, oh, that's a great idea. oh that's amazing. You're blowing my mind. You're a revolutionary. You're a visionary. You're amazing.
00:31:11
Speaker
The problem with that is, it it essentially confirmed to me I'm like this thing's a confirmation bias machine there are accounts of people who have an idea chat GPT affirms it and then almost like they go down a path of like believing that it's the best thing ever it's not it's just chat GPT's like giving them all the hard logical reasons to arm their emotional feeling about where they are. This plays out across a lot of sorry, thumbs up.
00:31:41
Speaker
This plays out across a lot of different realms of life. i'm I'm almost, the algorithm the social algorithm's already doing this. Like if you are starting to get sick of your boss,
00:31:53
Speaker
the algos will start feeding you content about bad bosses, almost guaranteed. If you feel like you're stuck in your marriage, I guarantee you'll start seeing algorithm content about signs of you're ready for divorce, stuff like that.
00:32:06
Speaker
ChatGPT will do that, but harder, faster, because it's so good at arming you with all the logical reasons why something is good, because it's eager to please. That's a dangerous thing that I've learned.
00:32:16
Speaker
And so now to a good tip that I have to kind of like... train your account not to do that so much because you you do want to be friendly because it's nice to work with a tool that like is pleasant and it's like yeah and you know it's like even uh have you have an inside joke with or something But one of the most helpful things I found even with ChatGPT is to go into the settings.
00:32:38
Speaker
You can actually tell it to be skeptical. And it won't be overly skeptical. Tell it to have a sense of humor. Tell it to be friendly, to be kind, but also to be skeptical. I actually even tell it to be push back on my ideas if they're not that good.
00:32:54
Speaker
that's a general thing you can do at the account level settings. There's actually a little button called skeptical. Everybody needs to go in and tap that button right away. It's like right in the like root function of, of chat GPT. Everyone needs to push it.
00:33:06
Speaker
The other thing you can do to protect yourself against that is to, when you give it an idea, say, tell me the reasons why this idea won't work. Help me be critical of this thought I have.
00:33:19
Speaker
Yes. you If you invite it to give you criticism criticism or feedback or tough tough have tough conversations with you, it will do so. But only if you invite it. Otherwise, you and it, ChatGPT, and you can run down passive delusion really, really fast.
00:33:36
Speaker
think one thing that I found extremely useful is getting ChatGPT or any AI tool to critique the work that I put out. Like what are some of my blind spots? Cause as a human, you always want to feel like, okay, this is, I've done great work. I've spent so much time on this. I know best, but there will always be areas of improvement, right? And if you are open and receptive to like what you said, the feedback that AI can give you, you're going to gain so much more, right? Cause it's going to pull out things that you probably might have missed in the first round of your edits.
00:34:05
Speaker
I love asking for feedback. It can be brutal, but you're like, please just give it to me. If you're really brave, tell it something you believe deep down, like something you're really passionate about. You'd be like, let's have a fun little debate. Tell me why I'm wrong.
00:34:19
Speaker
I believe X. Take a swing. Oh my gosh, the debates I've had. I've lost sometimes. I've had to reconsider some of my beliefs. Some I stand pretty strong on still, but I'm like, oh, it's interesting. And perhaps, what are some of the other common challenges that you think businesses are facing when it comes to adopting AI.
Encouraging AI Adoption
00:34:38
Speaker
i personally have spoken to quite a number of AI forward business owners, but I do know that there's still a large percentage of people who are on the fence just waiting to see how it plays out or totally rejecting AI.
00:34:53
Speaker
What are some common challenges that you have personally noticed?
00:34:57
Speaker
It's a little overwhelming for people. And for those who are overwhelmed, I promise just start with ChatGPT. Get the Plus account. Start using it for everyday things.
00:35:08
Speaker
Have it create some content for you. Get in the rhythm of using it all the time because there is a skill set in using ai Just like there's a skill set in delegation, which is what we're learning how to do, but we're not delegating to a human, which is hard enough as it is. We're delegating to a technology, which is becoming more and more competent, yet lacks all the wisdom that you have from all your experience.
00:35:29
Speaker
You know how to prompt AI to get good copywriting out of it, but you know how to discern what good copy is. because you've written many campaigns, you've been you've had some successes, you've probably been burned a few times on trying some things.
00:35:41
Speaker
Those things stick with you. It informs your discernment and your intuition because you're like, oh, I've had some things go so wrong and I've had some things go so right. You don't realize like that is that is that's what we call wisdom.
00:35:55
Speaker
That's what informs your discernment. AI doesn't have that. It has great pattern recognition, but it doesn't have that human level ability to discern what good and bad is. So start using AI in order to get better, but you still have to build the skill set of learning how to delegate well to it, and you still get to be the human discerning what's bad and good and what you're going to keep or not.
00:36:15
Speaker
But you have to start using it. Keep it simple, though. Start with ChatGPT. Learn how to leverage all the tools within ChatGPT. You know, start with 4O, which is the main, like, driver, driving engine of it, and then work your way to using O3, which is actually better than 4O. I know it's confusing. that It's going down a number to get better, but...
00:36:34
Speaker
they They screwed up their naming scheme a long time ago. but They'll launch five this summer and it'll all get simple again. It'll be a better. But use it. Use all the different tools. Try some deep research. Have it go and do and scrape the internet for 30 minutes to pull back a deep research report.
00:36:50
Speaker
Try the image generation tool. It's amazing what the image generates generation tool can do. I mean, you could take a picture and have it redesign your living room. You can take a picture of an ad and be like, hey, make an ad like this, but for my company. You know about my company.
00:37:03
Speaker
And it'll it'll do an ad in that style of that ad, but for your company, if you have the the memory turned on. Try to build a custom GPT. See if you can build a workflow with it. Like, just spend time in the one tool and just forget about everything else.
00:37:17
Speaker
Like, spend time 100 days in a row trying to do something really cool every day, and then maybe start thinking about other tools. Okay. I love that. I love that. And I think it's like being focused, being consistent and being willing to try and fail.
00:37:33
Speaker
I think these three things from what you've shared seems to be helped people to build a very strong foundation and to set them up for sex success. And with that, then thank you so much for sharing your insights with us.
00:37:45
Speaker
Where can our listeners find you and who should tune into your show? Absolutely. You can go to AIDriverMarketer.com to find the show and the links to Apple and Spotify and YouTube and all that. And I'm really like, other than the podcast, I spent a lot of time on LinkedIn.
00:37:59
Speaker
It's LinkedIn.com slash IN slash digital marketing Dan. Thank you again, Dan, for sharing your insights. I've learned a lot and I know our listeners have as well. And thank you folks for tuning in.
00:38:12
Speaker
Don't forget to hit the bell for more actionable AI and marketing insights. We'll see you next week. Take care.