Transcript
Danchez: Hello and welcome back. In today's edition of Bot Bros, we're tackling whether ai is destroying the craft of marketing or if marketers are just being a little romantic about the craft.
Danchez: We're going to talk about a new update that just came into the ChatGPT app and agents. Again, are they a thing or not a thing? So welcome back to Bot Bros. This is a segment of the AI-driven marketer where we're I, Dan Sanchez, co-host this show with my brother, Travis Sanchez, where we uncover the help from all the AI hype that's swirling around on the internet so that you can actually find some useful nuggets in there every single week.
Travis: Hey, hey.
Danchez: Let's dive into some of the news, starting with news about this show, AI-Driven Marketer, this show, this podcast, this YouTube channel. it's, it's growing and it's been exciting to see the growth of this show.
Danchez: I noticed recently that the show, I was looking for another show and then saw, I saw this show like in Apple's top 50 rankings for marketing.
Travis: nice
Danchez: And I was like, dang, look, we were even beating out some prominent shows. Now the top rankings on Apple aren't based on total downloads. So most of those shows are getting more downloads than the show. Apple bases rankings off of net new subscribers over a short time period, maybe like a day or two.
Danchez: So lots of people are subbing to the show, I guess. we We just passed 3,000 subs across across the channels, across Apple, Spotify, and YouTube are the ones where I measure.
Travis: nice look at us
Danchez: we And we just crossed 1,000 subs on YouTube. but
Travis: Come on. That's amazing.
Danchez: So it reminds me of back in the day when you got me into watching Casey Neistat.
Travis: Ah, yes.
Danchez: And I think we both had a Casey Neistat moment of like buying camera gear and getting into video like about that time. Do you remember?
Travis: Yep.
Danchez: And we started because we're both marketers doing marketing and we needed content. So we're like, well, let's like if Casey can run around with the DSLR and like make content, then surely we could. And we both kind of did. We both started to start doing vloggy type stuff for the companies we were working for.
Danchez: You did a lot better than I did. and making content and getting views. But still, here we are today. I tried to do the YouTube thing. I can never really just craft enough content.
Danchez: If I'd had, I'd probably would have crossed the thousand subscriber mark a long time ago. But it's funny that i we broke it today on a podcast.
Travis: Listen, we struggle to create long form video content. That's where it it is difficult to create that. Casey Neistat had a gift and somewhat of an incredible drive.
Danchez: so freaking hard oh man i think it was 700 like he was in the three-year mark of daily vlog
Travis: I think he did like 435 videos. He did one every single day.
Travis: oh man, crazy. Content was king at that point, and then he just got so much attention because was fun to watch.
Danchez: oh man every day every morning i was watching casey neistat and you felt like you knew the guy
Travis: Yep.
Danchez: But this show is not Casey Neistat. This this is a small show, but there's there's quite a few of you listening and watching. have to remind myself how many people it is because every episode is doing about 700 plus people, which is about the size of the talk that I just gave at Social Media Marketing World. was a crowd of 700 people.
Danchez: So I have to remember, like every time we get in front of this these cameras and these mics, like we're talking to a room... like full of that, that many people. That's what I used to tell people when I was working for Sweetfish advising clients. I'm like, how much would you pay to be in front of just a hundred people?
Danchez: Like a lot. Usually people pay to be on stage these days.
Travis: Right. True.
Danchez: and generally it's not like, it doesn't take too long to develop a podcast of just a hundred people, but here like we're talking to 700 people. So I don't take it lightly, light, lightly. Yeah. Yeah.
Danchez: Thank you for your attention. Thank you for coming and showing up here. We appreciate it. We're celebrating this together.
Travis: through
Danchez: 3K subs, another mile marker for AI-driven marketer. About 20,000 listens a month now across YouTube and podcasts, just under 20,000. So slow and steady growth.
Danchez: It's been fun. going to keep going.
Travis: Come on. I love that.
Danchez: In other news, ChatGPT 4.1 was announced a couple of weeks ago. It's this new kind of updated model from 4.0. You could call it 4.0.
Danchez: It's so confusing with all the numbers because they released 4.5 then they sunsetted it. They have O3, which is like an actually much better model than 4.0, but it's a number smaller, but it has the O in front of it. and It's like, so many people are confused by this. They're going to fix it this summer when they roll out five.
Danchez: I think they're going to come up with a whole different naming scheme. They swear they're going to fix it. So I'm like, okay, we're just going to be confused in the meantime. But 4.1, 4.1, was supposed to only be for the API.
Travis: Wow. Okay.
Danchez: This was... And it made it made a big difference because, like, in the API, it cost, like, a fraction of 4.0, was slightly better, and could run twice as fast.
Travis: okay
Danchez: So for developers building apps on ChatGPT, like, this was, like like, huge. This was a big deal. But... By popular demand, this 4.1 model is now available in the chat GPT app. It just came available yesterday. i verified it this morning. It was in my account.
Danchez: I have not played with it at all.
Travis: Really? i didn't see it.
Danchez: Yeah, it's under the other. If you go down to the...
Travis: More models.
Danchez: more models.
Travis: Oh yeah, there it is.
Danchez: You have to click model, go to more models, and you will find 4.1 and 4.1 mini.
Travis: 4.1. four point one
Danchez: four point one 4.1 is supposed to be better than 4.0, especially for code. It is better at instruction following. So if you're doing data analysis, it might be better. If you're doing code, it's definitely going to be better.
Danchez: i have not experimented with it myself. I don't know if it feels like 4.0, but it's just better. I don't I haven't really used it yet. So I I literally just found out about this morning as I was prepping for this show.
Travis: just It does say great for quick coding and analysis.
Danchez: So.
Danchez: Yeah, I that's generally like the one if you had to know one thing that would be it. But of course, it's going to be better than more than that.
Travis: Wow. Okay. Okay.
Danchez: So that's the news this week. There's hardly any AI news, actually, which is why I'm throwing out a bunch of different things and posts from people this week, because it's very, it's very quiet week in AI.
Danchez: The reason is, is because next week is going to be a freaking bomb, right? Because we have Google's big conference next week. Like we had a few, a conference last week, a a few weeks ago from Google and a of course, open AI trade is still the show, drop their own stuff.
Travis: Yep. yep
Danchez: but this one is like one of the biggest announcements we're going to get from google for the year is from this week or next week so i expect a lot of big news on the next episode of bot bros uh because google is going to be launching a bunch of new stuff which means jgbt is going to try to steal the show again and announce stuff themselves and who knows if grok kinds to come in there and try to do the same thing i don't know we'll see it's
Travis: bro. I wonder how they feel about each one of those platforms undercutting their release updates for their AI programs. i mean, brutal. So cutthroat dang sharks, man.
Danchez: I don't know, man.
Danchez: But it's happened so much that it's just kind of like, you could just count on it now. so I'm like, Google, like just be prepared for it.
Danchez: Like if you're all going to go in on this, like just figure it out. Of course, ChatGPT is kind of the leader and no one really pays attention to Google and all the Google fans like just hate, hate that.
Danchez: But I'm like, don't know. I mean, I've, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Like I'm not, I'm not on Google's team. Like I don't really trust them. I know a lot of people don't trust open AI either because they've had a lot of shenanigans going on.
Danchez: but I trust Google less. They've proven to be untrustworthy over long period of time where open AI has done some somewhat shady things or more like suspicious things. I can't say they've actually confirmed shady things quite yet.
Danchez: and no I don't deny it. I'm sure there's some shady stuff going on. It just, Google's confirmed shady over a long period of time.
Travis: Yikes.
Danchez: So I'm like, but I still use Chrome and Gmail and YouTube and all this stuff. Cause how do you not use Google these days? You can't.
Travis: I mean, you're going against that one statement. You know what i mean? Like, what is it? Trust the devil. Like, go with the devil I know versus the devil I don't. So you're you're putting your dice in the new the new basket of...
Travis: potential you're like well they've not done anything yet brand new out of the box like
Danchez: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And if anything, I'm like, well, just diversify my data so it's not all sitting in one place. So Google doesn't know everything about me.
Danchez: you know what I'm saying? ChatGPT's got some. Apple's got some. Amazon's got some. Let's diversify the information a little bit.
Travis: all right it's a good argument that's funny
Danchez: I don't know. I don't know. From a privacy concern, I'm not an expert on the privacy thing. I do think about it from time to time. moving on to the next, uh, news item.
Danchez: I got a, saw a post from Ryan Dice of digital marketer.com. Uh, I think I've sent you one of his books before. Haven't I Ryan Dice?
Travis: Oh, yeah. Yep.
Danchez: Yeah.
Travis: yeah
Danchez: man, Ryan Dice was the man. Like he, he fricking wrote like the capstone of digital marketing when he rolled out his core series, maybe like a decade ago,
Danchez: I instantly immediately saw him like, yes, this is the pinnacle of digital marketing. This is the playbook. This is the game. I took all the courses. I made all my students. I had like ah ah probably like 15 interns and students working for me at the time. I'm like, this is what we're doing moving forward. You're all taking these certifications. And I had paid $500 a month for this program and had them all take it. And they got all certified up and a lot of them became marketers because of this.
Danchez: So Ryan Dice was huge, but he posted this this just yesterday. He said, I am retiring. Now, of course, this is total clickbait. He's not retiring. He's essentially pre-announcing a pivot that they're making.
Danchez: And I saw this po post and I'm like, of course you are. Because to me, I'm like, yeah, this just confirms that marketing's changing.
Travis: Digital marketing. Yeah.
Danchez: like It's all transitioning right now. Digital marketing was king. It is no more.
Travis: Wow. That's wild.
Travis: I'm reading his post, which is long, but wow. It is crazy to see him even just say, I'm taking digital marketer. His company is out as well. Like he's taking it off, but obviously it's going to be a pivot.
Danchez: Yeah. It's just going to redirect to whatever the new thing is. But like I've visited just out of curiosity. I go there every once in a while. I've gone to digitalmarketer.com and it hasn't stayed relevant.
Danchez: And I was competing with them slightly whenever I, when I first launched the show and I was like, is AI driven marketer ranking? Like if someone searches for the show name, um I showing up? And at first it wasn't me. It was, it was digital marketer for a blog they wrote on AI powered marketing. So if every time you search AI driven marketing,
Danchez: if I drove a marketer, was their blog. Now it's, now it's the show because the show has become more prominent. And guess enough people have linked to it, I guess. And, but I'm like, they might switch to AI powered marketer or something like that.
Danchez: And then I don't know.
Travis: Okay, so he's switching to like an e-learning platform.
Danchez: We'll see.
Travis: Is that, I mean, that's what I'm.
Danchez: He had an e-learning platform for the whole digital marketer thing that I used to use and run all my students through.
Travis: Yeah, right. I remember.
Danchez: But i those are he said those are all going to stay up. But pretty soon he's going announce, probably on Monday, like a big shift to AI something.
Danchez: Maybe it's... and I'd love to say it's AI marketer.com. That would be hilarious from digital marketer to AI marketer, which would be a f freaking expensive domain buy. Cause I looked at it and it was expensive.
Danchez: wonder who has that now. AI marketer.com.
Travis: I think Ryan Dice probably has enough money to buy, you know?
Danchez: Oh yeah, for sure. Oh, right now it's, it's, it's not connected to anything, but it is owned by somebody. So I'm like, he might own it. He's just not directing it there yet.
Travis: Wow.
Danchez: so that's comes along with another post I saw, which I'm going to get call.
Travis: Times are changing.
Danchez: Um,
Danchez: James Carberry sent me this post. I literally woke up and saw this message in my inbox. He's like, hey, this would be a good segment for your you podcast. And I'm like, thanks, bro. I'm literally trying to scrape things together right now because there just wasn't a lot of news this week that matters for marketers.
Danchez: There's always news every week, but most of it's like stupid news that don't, doesn't it's like big political things.
Travis: Right.
Danchez: and you're like, like these just don't matter right now for marketers.
Travis: Oh, yeah.
Danchez: maybe Maybe if you're a big player in AI, it matters, but for most of us, meh. So this post was really interesting. This definitely was a viral post for LinkedIn, 214 comments, 48 reposts. like So in 15, about 1,154 reactions. So this is a viral LinkedIn post.
Danchez: Let me just read it to you and then we'll discuss it. So Morgan Short wrote, I think a lot of marketers are worried right now. I saw a couple of posts here yesterday that identified it better than I could. There are things that...
Danchez: have been circling around in my head that I haven't hadn't found the right words to articulate. Tommy Walker wrote about how he started second guessing centuries old literary devices, things that parallel structure, rhetorical questions, antithesis, because the AI gotcha crowd has decided anything from rhythm or structure must be fake.
Danchez: There's a new layer of suspicion. case Kyle Lacey shared his concern that ai has the very real potential to replace the pathways we all relied on to learn and grow in this field. The early roles, the grunt work, the hands-on experience that taught us how to think.
Danchez: And i just, ugh, big sigh because I feel it too. The shift, the ache, the quiet fear that the job we fell in love with is slipping away. Remember when someone handed you a headline and said, make it sing, and you tried and failed and tried again.
Danchez: That's what I'm grieving. The late nights rewriting something that didn't quite land. The mentor who marked up your draft and read and told you why the changes matter. The slow build of creative muscle that helped you nail taste, timing, and resonance.
Danchez: Learning to see the world like a storyteller. Discovering your own style.
Travis: Yeah.
Danchez: I'm afraid we're so severing the creative bloodline. We're replacing the apprenticeship with automation, care with speed, and creative instincts with templates. honestly believe believe that if we're not careful, we'll look up and realize that we scaled everything except meaning, and the world will feel gray.
Danchez: If you feel the grief, the disorientation, the daily existential crisis that comes with learning how powerful AI is getting, you're not alone. if you If you got into this field for the craft, you're my people.
Danchez: I'm still holding the line for now. I still plan to write like my life depends on it, but I don't know if marketing is the container in which I'll be able to do that for much longer. And that makes me sad.
Danchez: That's the post.
Travis: You know what this sounds like? This sounds like the guy who said, the horse will always be the main transportation.
Travis: It'll always weeks be the vehicle that gets people. The cart and buggy will. I'm like, oh, bro.
Danchez: I have mixed emotions about it because love... i
Travis: Hot take. Sorry, hot take.
Danchez: i love
Travis: yeah
Danchez: I love the craft of marketing.
Travis: yeah
Danchez: Like I am a marketer's marketer. marketer Like, I don't know what it was, but like somewhere along the line of my career, I started in graphic design, like in the art, actually started in art, couldn't find a career for that.
Travis: True, true, true.
Danchez: So pick graphic design. And then just, I don't know, like marketing needed help. So I just started doing the marketing stuff.
Travis: Yeah.
Danchez: Someone was like, make me a website. So I made them a website. i'm like, what do you want to put on it? They're like, I don't know. And so I started figuring it out. And then I started thinking like a marketer. And then I fell in love with that craft.
Travis: Right.
Travis: You know, you know what? I take my first statement back about the carton buggy. It's not the person who's saying the carton buggy will always last. It's finally the person realizing that the carton buggy is dying.
Danchez: And feeling nostalgic for it.
Travis: Oh, there's nothing like the sweet gallop of the horse trotting along the dirt path. There's a reason why Jingle Bells was talking about an open horse sleigh.
Danchez: Dude. Do you remember the movie You've Got Mail?
Travis: Yeah.
Danchez: Where that guy she's dating is like super romantic about like the typewriter compared to the computer.
Danchez: It's kind of like that. like
Travis: Yeah.
Danchez: He's like typewriter's last stand kind of guy. I'm like, ugh. and
Travis: Oh man. No, I get it. Kind of.
Danchez: Obviously, things change.
Travis: It's just changing. Like
Danchez: The craft changes. And we'll become romantic about new things.
Travis: if you were a carrot, you know, a horse drawn carriage builder, like, and people are changing, just, you got to change. I know change is hard. I know people will dig their heels into change and It's like going back to school because you have to feel like an idiot again. That's the whole thing. People don't like feeling like they suck.
Travis: So this girl has clearly, she says she likes feeling the grind, but I'm like, you you're having to walk into the next grind and you're complaining like, it's too, I don't know, like it's, it's not the same kind of grind. It's exactly the same grind. You have to feel like an idiot when you're messing with AI for the first time.
Travis: You have to feel dumb when you see incredible people using AI better than you, just like people were doing digital marketing or influence marketing or whatever it was before you, you have to feel that insecurity rise up again to start learning something new, which gets harder as you get older, but not impossible.
Travis: That's why I love the Gary V because he's like, I don't care if you're 70, start the company.
Danchez: And we've,
Danchez: yeah, I do like that. It still reminds me of my graphic design days.
Travis: Anyways.
Danchez: I had the privilege of learning from like an old school designer that was like less familiar with the tools of like Adobe and like did most of his design work in his life, like cutting paper out, you know, like cutting things out, designing things by hand and then taking a photo of it.
Travis: Right.
Danchez: Hence it was called it, even in my early design days, we called it photo ready instead of print ready.
Travis: Oh,
Danchez: Because back in the day, they would lay it out on a piece of paper. and then take a picture of it, and that was the cover.
Travis: that's wild.
Danchez: They'd have to lay it out on a spread. he He was in those days. And then he got pretty good at like using Adobe Illustrator, but like i like he was my professor in college, and I was teaching him in design.
Danchez: not the other way around. He had to come to me to help other students learn how to do InDesign.
Travis: Wow.
Danchez: But he still had a lot of really cool things to share. But if you just look at history, like this has happened over and over. And I love, like go back and marketing history.
Travis: and yeah
Danchez: I'm a huge fan of this guy named Josiah Wedgwood. He's like the OG marketer. But if you look at history, The thing that I've found over and over again is the marketers who clung to what was true, the fundamentals, human behavior, psychology, all those things, yet leaned into the new thing, almost always did better.
Travis: Right.
Danchez: Almost always, every time.
Travis: Right.
Danchez: Sometimes they were the ones making the new thing.
Travis: Wow.
Danchez: Like the zip code. Who invented the zip code? A marketer. Lester Wunderman doing direct marketing. He's like, it would be a lot easier to do direct marketing and sending these direct marketing letters if i if we had a better organized postal system.
Danchez: Let's come up with the zip code thing. So we pioneered that. and Innovation and mail delivery. So sometimes marketers led the change. Josiah Wedgwood was a potter who threw pots on the on the wheel and innovated all kinds of ways and invented glazes and how to get it right. But he invented all kinds of marketing models too, like the showroom, like the celebrity endorsement.
Danchez: Here, queen, you could have my set of stuff for free. She's like, oh, thank you. I will accept this gift. Meanwhile, he goes around and be like, hey, everybody, do you want to use the same wares that the queen uses? We're going to call it queen's wear.
Danchez: You know, the same plates that the queen uses at her palace, you can get for this affordable price. I'm like, Josiah Wedgwood.
Travis: Yeah. dang
Danchez: But he accepted on Bill all kinds of, he was on the cutting, he was in the 1700s, right? In leading, he was one of the people that led into the Industrial Revolution. Uh, and did quite well at the same time.
Danchez: I think there's a lot, like I probably need to do a whole episode on Josiah Wedgwood at the same time while everything was becoming industrialized and we know how bad that was for people.
Travis: yeah
Danchez: He did the opposite. He was high people oriented and created whole communities and great housing and great situations for potters. As things got kind of started to become mechanized a little bit.
Danchez: he made better living situations for a lot of potters at the time. And I'm like, we can do both. We can actually be human first and still take full advantage of the new tech as it comes out.
Travis: Love that. Great perspective.
Danchez: So I look at this post and I'm like, it's hard not to be romantic when you've mastered something. It's just really hard.
Travis: Right.
Danchez: I've never really got romantic about writing because I was never good enough of a writer.
Danchez: So I don't think it hit me the same.
Travis: it's funny you brought up pottery. It'd be like, because I used to do so much pottery and it'd be like the new, so the new thing is to use robotic arms and you just put these gloves on and it's so much more control and the pots are like so much better. But I'm like,
Travis: but the feeling of the wet clay between the fingertips and the knowing exactly how moist, you know, I know people love that word, how moist your hands need to be to really pull, you know, an even pot, the pressure, all the things.
Travis: Yeah.
Danchez: youre You're a creative person. Do you feel like AIs made you more or less creative?
Travis: it's like a new medium.
Travis: So I would say I've gotten into a new medium of creativity. I don't know if it's enhanced my creativity, but it has pushed me into a new medium. That's all I can say.
Travis: Which is, which is fun.
Danchez: How so?
Travis: Really understanding prompts. And when I'm trying to create an image or some kind of graphic for work, it's like I am having to dig deep creatively, obviously with words. I've never been a writer myself.
Travis: there's a little bit of that, like throw it at the wall and see if it sticks. What does it, what does it put out? And you read it and you're like, that's not right. And then you're, you're kind of back to the drawing board and you're like, okay, no, I need it to shift this way. I need the points to look a little different. I need you to change that image just slightly this way. I mean, it, it, it's, it's really that like push and play kind of thing. And that's where I'd say I get really creative every time I'm working with it.
Travis: Plus, I feel like it's risk-free. risk-free
Danchez: Yeah.
Travis: because you don't have to spend hours working on something that you're like, wow, I was totally wrong in thinking this. I had a meeting yesterday where I understood one thing. My boss said, hey, I need i think we should move x Y, and Z steps. We should combine these areas as one team.
Travis: I didn't quite hear that. And I said, chat, this is what I understood from the meeting. I need a proposal. Here's what I'm thinking. I read through it. I'm like, this is great. I had a meeting with another contender, and she was like,
Travis: This confuses everything. If we did this, you'll throwing a grenade in it. And I looked and went, oh my gosh. But in instead of spending hours building that proposal, aching over every word, trying to make sure that it made sense, which it did make sense, I i was like, okay.
Travis: That took me 15 minutes. I don't have to worry about it. I can go back to the drawing board. I now clearly understand, and let's let's rewrite this proposal. So I don't know. It's like i guess that's more of an analytical thing that took place.
Travis: But there's just less risk involved, especially in creating, which maybe that's why people hate it.
Danchez: I find a lot of marketers' time is spent doing internal marketing, either building proposals and trying to convince people of the things they you want to do or ought to do, and defending the things that did happen.
Danchez: And a lot of time, sometimes like half, it feels it feels like half the time, but maybe it's not that dramatic, but it's it's a significant amount of time whole marketing teams get spent into convincing people of what they should do or had done.
Danchez: in marketing when they could have been doing more stuff that added value to the customer or prospects or whatever, which kills me inside.
Travis: wow
Danchez: But I find that AI makes it a lot easier because you can do things like craft proposals really quickly and just get, you could just get it started with like the main thing and give it a few bullet points and then it fills in.
Travis: Uh huh.
Danchez: You come back and backfill it where it got it wrong and stuff.
Travis: Right.
Danchez: But that all that kind of stuff was total total time suck before.
Travis: Not anymore.
Danchez: So now, it's done. I don't know. There's so many time-saving things. There's so many things that are good at the same time. I understand people are frustrated by like how, how much hype there is and how much, how many hucksters are out there trying to like get you, you know, like you can do so much. You're like, no, I can't stop saying that. It's not going to build your whole website from scratch. I'm sorry. Like it's not going to do everything for you.
Danchez: Not yet. Eventually. But hopefully, I mean, that's why one of the reasons why people actually like listening to this show is because we're actually like wrestling with it, doing it, trying to figure it out, trying to share what's actually useful, what's not helpful, what's not there, what's not there.
Travis: Yes.
Danchez: I lost my train of thought of where I was going. AI is getting better. And this the last thing I'll say about this post from Morgan is that it's a good indicator that people who are really romantic about the craft are now beginning to grieve because that means that they're starting to acknowledge that AI is becoming so good that things are changing.
Danchez: Yeah.
Travis: Right. Right.
Danchez: which kind of comes in line with that Ryan Dice post, right? Marketing is changing.
Travis: right
Danchez: There's a big shift taking place. I think we're at the beginning stages of this massive shift. We're not at the end stages. Lots of things are changing. And we don't know what exactly what it's going to look like on the other side, but we're all trying to figure it out together.
Travis: right
Danchez: Just like we were with digital. It took a long time for Ryan Dice to come up with his like, like, huge course and how his frameworks work to create and solidify what digital marketing was. And it was a great play for five, 10 years.
Danchez: now it's changing. All right, last piece of news is around agents. Are they a thing yet? like i keep I keep getting this question from different people in different places in the AI Business Society, questions on LinkedIn, in person.
Travis: Right.
Danchez: People are like, hey, like it seems like the agents are hype. as Are there actually agents available?
Danchez: I'm always like, well...
Travis: Yeah, with a lot of work to do one task well.
Danchez: Yeah.
Travis: So no.
Danchez: My answer is always all the ingredients are there for them now, but there's not a lot of good examples except for a few. Deep research is probably the best example of an agent we have today.
Danchez: It just does a lot of work, lot of thinking, lot of decisions, comes back with a fully executed product. really good. That is an agent because it's using lots of tools at its disposal, thinking through things, dropping some things, reevaluating things and putting together a final report for you, doing a lot of work in a 30 minute.
Travis: It's like a pre-built agent, though.
Danchez: Yeah, it is, but it's an agent. it's It's just a very specialized agent that just does one thing. 03, on the other hand, that new thinking model, it has a lot of number of tools available to it.
Travis: Right.
Danchez: It can go search the web.
Travis: Right.
Danchez: It can think. It can take in images. It can give out images. It can also stop and just ask questions if it feels like it didn't get enough for information.
Travis: Right.
Danchez: It can use a calculator, as in it can open up Python and start to calculate things. It doesn't always calculate correctly, but it has a calculator, a tool it can use.
Travis: well
Danchez: So it's starting to feel agentic in a more general sense. So I think we have all the right ingredients. It's just it's going to take time for developers to string them together and into more helpful things.
Travis: Right.
Danchez: So are we there yet? We're in the beginning stages.
Danchez: And it's exciting. But most of the time when people say agents, it's not an agent.
Travis: it's not
Danchez: It's just automation with some AI baked into it.
Travis: It's not what they think. Yeah.
Danchez: That's it. And that's OK.
Travis: Yeah. And those are all the videos you see on YouTube of people saying, I've created an agent. It's literally just automations with AI attached to it like you said.
Danchez: Yeah. One of the things I'm seeing a lot, and I think a lot of people are wondering about, is they're seeing these really robust automations, essentially. But people are saying, like, the ultimate agent, NAN, I created it, and it looks like a freaking spider's web of, like, like this diagram of all these little nodes connected.
Danchez: I've seen a lot of those, because I'm also searching and watching these. Most of them are BS. There's just no way that it's that good. I know, because I built a good NAN process, and it breaks all the time.
Danchez: Like I'd use it for the show and I have to troubleshoot it. I'm like, okay, with a little bit more work, it might not break as much, but I'm like, I know from experience, I know from the past of doing these work really robust marketing automations that simpler is always better.
Danchez: Like, so I'm looking at these complex diagrams.
Travis: Right. Uh-huh.
Danchez: I'm like, nah, there's no way. Otherwise they wouldn't just be talking about the agent and what it does. They would be showing me the results of what it did.
Travis: of
Danchez: And then nobody's showing that. So I'm like, you guys are all fricking like you're, you're, I understand why they're excited because they got it to work generally, but like consistently, where's the results, my man?
Danchez: i don't, I'm not seeing the followup. So not yet.
Travis: Yeah, they know people are asking about it too. so they're creating content to try and scoop up those views.
Danchez: Yeah. Yeah. we're all marketers here. We all know we like to lead with the shiny because shiny f freaking sells, man. People come in, they're like, we need AI. You're like, well, what you really need is to be repositioned. Like, like classic, like, well, you're just not framing your product correctly.
Danchez: So let's talk about how to frame that. Let's go interview some customers and do the work that AI can't really do for you right now.
Travis: Right.
Danchez: So lead with shiny, sell them on the stuff that, and then do the stuff they actually need.
Travis: It's good.
Danchez: But of course AI is good too. Moving on to the segment, I want to talk about the sponsor of this episode, which is High Level. I specifically want to talk about the price. like How much were you guys paying for ActiveCampaign at the last place you worked at?
Travis: Bull, I think at the end there,
Travis: i think we were paying 7,500 a year.
Danchez: it was more than that.
Travis: Yeah, it might have jumped to the next tier. It might have jumped to like 12,000.
Danchez: think we were up to 1200 a month.
Travis: Was it 1,200 month?
Danchez: I know. Cause I was working with you on your active campaign account.
Travis: was it twelve hundred a month oh
Danchez: twelve hundred 1200 a month.
Danchez: It's funny. I asked you and I'm like, actually, I know the answer because I was in there working on it. 1200 a month on after active campaign, even though active campaign starts low, it gets high fast.
Danchez: And I remember when I used infusion soft, we were paying 800 and that's, that's with nonprofit discounts that I used infusion soft in an active campaign.
Travis: we had
Travis: nonprofit discounts as well.
Danchez: You had a nonprofit discount too.
Travis: we had nonprofit discounts as well
Danchez: Yeah, which which are at least 15%, but usually can be heavier. And then FusionSoft, I negotiated it down to get a bunch of users and emails and it got down to like $800 a month. Had like 30 users in there. They're expensive. It adds up.
Danchez: And then the cost for the consumables, the emails and the text messages are usually like two, three cents a text tax emails add up. A high level, how much do you think it costs?
Travis: 500? Wow.
Danchez: one hundred
Travis: oh
Danchez: It can go up. But here's what you get when you go up. And with $100 a month, you actually get not one account, but three accounts. So you could run three different businesses out of one $100 a month high level account.
Travis: wow
Danchez: If you pay $300 a month, you can run unlimited businesses out of it. And that's what a lot of agencies do. This is why it's more known in the agency world. But I'm like, it's still so good that I still use it for just individual businesses. Just go buy high level yourself.
Travis: Bro, it does feel like yeah like highway robbery when you have these chip monk chi chimp monkey or whatever.
Danchez: and'
Travis: What is it? Mail.
Danchez: MailChimp.
Travis: Oh, it's crazy.
Danchez: Yeah.
Danchez: MailChimp's freaking expensive.
Travis: i but
Danchez: You're like, I'm spending $100,000 a month on MailChimp.
Travis: yeah
Danchez: Maybe not that much, but like $5,000, $10,000 a month in MailChimp, if you have a big list, it adds up at fast.
Travis: crazy
Danchez: But then high levels coming under there and undercutting everybody and the consumables are real low. So you pay, they just kind of like barely mark up like what it costs to send through mail gun and ah ah Twilio. And I think it costs like like half, like a little over half a cent per text message, which in most texting platforms, it's like two cents would be cheap.
Danchez: Most of them are like three, four cents a text.
Travis: Yeah, it's usually like, yeah i've I've seen like five, seven cents per take.
Danchez: Yeah. yeah on high level, they're just barely marking it up from Twilio. So it's like 0.65 cents a text inbound, outbound.
Travis: Wow, go high level.
Danchez: Yeah. That's one of the great things about high level, but I'll say other reasons why I like it later. But like the price alone, you're like, how much are you paying for HubSpot right now? Come on. Even as a solopreneur, you're probably spending 1,500 bucks a month.
Danchez: Come on.
Travis: Oh, it's brutal.
Danchez: You know it's true. You came on the free plan and they got you.
Travis: So much.
Travis: so Yeah.
Danchez: Just move over to HighLevel. Thank you, HighLevel, for sponsoring this podcast. So let's move over to the weekly use cases. We need a name for this segment. We're going to have to figure that out. ChatTPT, just some everyday use cases.
Danchez: Trav, don't you start?
Travis: My practical one for the week is i need to dig two holes for some posts. And I didn't know how much cement I needed. Of course, I called some people that didn't answer. so I'm like you know what? I'll just ask my other friend, ChatGPT.
Travis: How much cement will I need for a two-foot hole that has three-and-a-half by three-and-a-half-foot pole in it? And it said if you're doing two holes, probably going need seven to eight bags.
Travis: of 60 pound fill. And I was like, that sounds like too much. So I went to the store, asked the guy, he goes, meh, one and a half bags, maybe like per hole. So maybe three, four bags. I was like, all right. So I get home, I'm looking at the bags. I'm thinking about that hole. And I'm like, oh man, pretty sure chat was right. I should've got more bags.
Travis: It was like doing the math and the calculations and pie and all that stuff. And I'm like, oh, it knows better. That was one of my, one of my use cases. What about you?
Danchez: I, yesterday I was at an event where there was a bunch of people like chairs and I, I spent a lot of time in the UPS like camp chairs because we could go to a lot of soccer games.
Travis: yeah Oh yeah.
Danchez: And if you've been to soccer games, you know, like everyone's generally everyone's rocking like the GCI. I think that's the name CGI GCI stupid name, but the little rocker portable chairs, You know, so like if you're going to a lot of soccer games, you have that. But I saw somebody else had another chair and I'm like, what is that?
Danchez: It's like low to the ground. It has like you can lean back with the headrest and stuff. i'm like, dang, that looks like you could take a little siesta in that thing.
Travis: Dang.
Danchez: How much that cost? So I just took a picture of it from a distance. I kind of zoomed in, took a picture and I was like, oh, three, how much this cost? It went and searched the web. And of course, you know, oh, three can zoom in on a picture. So it's like zooming in, finds the logo, thinks about it, goes and searches the web. It looks like this chair, this model.
Danchez: And not only does it find me the price, but it's like, hey, from the from the source, it costs like 80 bucks. But Amazon's usually selling it for 60, but every like pretty commonly they run it for 50.
Danchez: So pay attention to that.
Travis: Wow.
Danchez: But if you want it even cheaper, go to Costco if they have it. Because you can get it for 45 there and it's the best price you'll find. I was like, freaking, I just asked for the price, but it went shopping for me and found the best deal on the chair.
Danchez: And it was the right chair. Gave me links to Amazon, to the site.
Travis: Wow.
Danchez: And I was like, Man, talk about like every time I go shopping for anything more than like $50, I'm just going to send O3 to be like price check.
Travis: I didn't know 03 was the best thing.
Danchez: Now on.
Travis: I didn't know 03 was the best thing to take pictures of and ask it to search for certain things.
Danchez: Oh, bro. Yeah, it's freaky good. Like you can literally take a picture of just somewhere in a city and be like, where is this? It will freaking find it, dude. People are playing like the geo game with it I think I mentioned this on the podcast a while i ago.
Travis: Yeah, you did.
Danchez: I tried it myself. I took a picture of a random tower in Nashville. I'm like, what is this? I took a picture. It thinks about it for three minutes. and like It looks like it could be Nashville. it looks like it could be Dallas. It's like, well, this architecture wouldn't be right for this.
Danchez: And it thinks about it, searches, looks for models and eventually found the right answer. It's like, yep, no, this is Vanderbilt's new medical tower, i think in in Nashville.
Travis: Wow. Wow. Okay.
Danchez: And it's a big part of their skyline now. I was like, my gosh.
Travis: wow
Danchez: had It like cropped in and zoomed. It's like, no, that no that's definitely gothic architecture. That's that's probably it.
Travis: wow
Danchez: It's really good.
Travis: okay
Danchez: What's your next one?
Travis: I love using chat for brainstorming. If I need a new name, if I need to strategize on a title. So I used it for a team name strategy, just combining two teams and figuring out, okay, what...
Travis: but This is what I'm thinking. Here are the options that have been used in the past. Give me like all of them. So when it spits out a bullet point list and then you're reading it and there's one that just glaringly sticks out at you that sounds the best.
Travis: I love the functionality of like that quick brainstorming thing where I don't need to involve 18 people to finally get the good, the good, uh, the title. And then when people challenge you and say, I don't, cause it's funny when you always bring the best thing to someone, they're like, I don't like what you brought me.
Travis: Then you show them the nine other options that you said no to. They go, Oh yeah, that is the best one.
Danchez: Uh,
Travis: It just makes that process so much more streamlined. and that's how I used it this week and a name strategy, brainstorm,
Danchez: I like even pulling it in together so you can like co-create with another person or two. It's really helpful for even complex things like logo design or different things. Cause you can just fly through like dozens of options together and kind of like collaborative collaboratively work with TPT to find the general direction that you need to go in as a designer.
Travis: Uh-huh.
Travis: Yes.
Danchez: You're like, praise God. Cause like so much of the headache of design was just trying to narrow in and like try to get somebody to come on the journey with you. Because if you just bridge them the logo, like,
Travis: Right. No.
Danchez: They're not going like it.
Travis: Yeah. Yeah.
Danchez: You have to narrow it down with them and the process of doing that took forever.
Travis: Uh-huh.
Danchez: So you'd have to do mood boards and then find the mood boards. Usually combine some elements. Then come up with three comps and then combine some elements. Now you could just do that live in 30 minutes and walk away and just find do the final tweaks and you're done.
Travis: Good. right.
Danchez: my last one here is it helped me fix my ice maker yesterday.
Travis: What's your next one?
Danchez: Ice maker wasn't working a couple of days ago. I had to pull out the whole ice maker. You know, you pull out the whole thing to dump it in for something.
Travis: Yeah. Yeah.
Danchez: I did that, put it back in and it wasn't dispensing. Uh, motor was on. I'd hit the little like little thing and I could hear the motor running. No ice coming out.
Danchez: It's not the grinder. It wasn't getting stuck in there. So I, you know, you pull it in, you pull it back out. It's still doing the same thing. You're like, I don't know. I don't know what's wrong with it. Like, is the little thing in there not spinning?
Danchez: Is it the grinder?
Travis: Right.
Danchez: I don't know.
Travis: Right.
Danchez: I take a picture of the fridge so it kind of knows the model. I'm like, Chad GPT, like, and I just explained the situation, what I'm seeing, what I'm hearing, what I'm not seeing. And it's like, yeah, there could be a couple of things wrong with here. Here's a list of troubleshoot, trouble of things to troubleshoot in order of like most likely and easy to fix to harder to fix and less likely.
Danchez: And it was the first one. It just, the the little spinner in the back, I didn't realize there was a little thing that it's catching in the back, just wasn't properly aligning so that it could rotate it.
Travis: T.
Travis: Uh huh. Uh huh.
Danchez: And once I gave it a little twist and made sure it was aligned, pushed it back, fixed it. I was like, man, gosh, that was easy. But if I had taken that to Google, like how long would have taken me to figure that out?
Travis: Oh, you would have had to watch like 18 videos and yeah.
Danchez: I would have walked,
Danchez: It's just so much faster. You explain the thing. You're like, oh, contextual problem solving. I did a whole episode on that last week. I'll link to it in the show notes, but it's like a whole topic of how ChatGPG is just good at helping you solve problems contextually.
Travis: Good.
Danchez: Check out that episode. Moving on to the weekly poll, and we'll be wrapping with this weekly poll since we already pulled the viral post over from Morgan.
Danchez: Weekly poll. I asked marketers this past week, Has marketing become more complicated in the last last five years?
Travis: Interesting.
Danchez: We had 292 votes on this one, so was good size. And these were the results. The answers they could have picked on were absolutely, mostly, somewhat, not really, and it's easier, actually.
Danchez: Absolutely got 58% of the votes. So they're like, 58% of people are like, yes, it is absolutely more complicated than it was five years ago.
Travis: oh
Danchez: 10% said mostly, 14% said somewhat, 15% said not really, and 3% said it's easier. So kind of confirm my suspicions that it's gotten more complicated over the last five years.
Danchez: I remember thinking that when reading Gary Vee's more recent marketing book, it was very tactical. I remember reading it, understanding the tactics of everything he pointed out and thinking, my gosh, I understand what he's talking about, but he's right. Like this is this is the playbook for how to do it. And it's wicked complicated now.
Travis: Wow.
Danchez: Like digital marketing was supposed to make things easy because you're doing inbound and you don't have to guess anymore because we have data. It's made things way more complicated than used to be.
Travis: Wow.
Travis: Well, I feel like it's gotten easier, but
Danchez: were you Would you be in the 3% of it's easier?
Travis: You know what? To be real vulnerable. Writing was my crutch. i can i just Writing was the most difficult thing for me. And once chat GPT came out, I went,
Travis: This is it. Cause I mean, let's be honest. Chat should be tea for writing is, i mean, or not just chat, but like AI in general, that generative creation for writing was like the first thing. And I just went here, it here it is. I could, I could be a solopreneur now because I'm, I have this tool to write.
Danchez: Yeah.
Travis: Whether it's creative, whether it's blogs, whether it's emails, whether to fix the tone, to create more casual conversations. It just it solved it for me. Gradical errors.
Travis: I just lacked the attention to detail to make sure that my writing was top notch. And it it solved it. So for me, it made it easier. I was terrified to write. it made me that was I could get up in front of 1,000 people and do a backflip. I don't care.
Travis: But writing an email and having 1,000 people read it, I was like terrified.
Danchez: I'm kind of in that same boat. Like I learned how to write out of necessity for marketing. So I got good at writing copy, but I'd still have typos and stuff. I'm i'm like, like if I ever work with the marketing team, they know like umma they're always catching errors in my my stuff. And then I kind of found out that like it matters, but not as much as people think or say it is, especially like the grammar Nazis pretend like it matters a lot more than it does because I post stuff all the time to LinkedIn and it doesn't.
Danchez: but like what The idea that you're communicating still matters more. Obviously, the better the clearer you can do it, the better.
Travis: yeah
Danchez: And grammar creates clarity. But I was still able to write a lot of posts and lead with a lot of text content on LinkedIn for a long time. But it still wasn't my favorite.
Travis: Right.
Danchez: I'd rather be in front of a video camera. I'd rather be talking.
Travis: right
Danchez: I'd even rather be up on stage now. So I think the same thing. Once it could write for me, I'm like, yes, I hated writing blog posts.
Travis: Right.
Danchez: I've written a lot of blog posts, great blog posts.
Travis: Right.
Danchez: ChatGPT does it better.
Danchez: So i I'd say like, yes, it's gotten harder, but I'm with you.
Travis: I agree.
Danchez: Like with AI, it's gotten easier. Which I'm so happy about because before it was got harder and harder and harder i'm like, finally, like some relief.
Danchez: Like AI is making things easier once you lean into it and you can do it and automate in better ways now.
Travis: Uh-huh.
Travis: Uh-huh.
Danchez: So it's a new world.
Travis: New world.
Danchez: Things are changing.
Travis: Things are changing.
Danchez: And hopefully you're listening to show, getting some takeaways and learning how to change with it. Because marketers who lean into the change yet without sacrificing the fundamentals are the ones who are going to be leading this whole profession over the next couple of years.
Danchez: So thanks for joining us on the AI Driven Marketer.
Travis: Wait, wait. Is that the pod?
Danchez: We can't steal that segment from the from ah from my first million, but we're...
Travis: Oh, okay. Was that the cast?
Danchez: Was that the cast? We need to come up with something, okay?
Danchez: But yes, that's the cast.
