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The Conjuring: Last Rites (2025)
45 Plays16 hours ago
The end of the Warrens, The Conjuring Franchise, and our Franchise series, Rick and Trav come out of retirement to cover Michael Chaves' last chapter for Ed and Lorraine Warren in The Conjuring: Last Rites. More haunted hospital visits, some scary mirrors, Father Gordon praise, and chickens running amok at birthday parties; we cover it all.
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Transcript
Introduction and Production Challenges
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, scary heads. Thank you again for joining us for our 14th episode. This was a fun one to record, ah namely because Trav and I were in the same place. Now, with that does come some production hiccups. So we just wanted to ask you guys to be patient with us.
00:00:15
Speaker
um The quality of this episode in terms of audio goes... is not our best. Also, another disclaimer, wanted to shout out to Brian and Shannon Thomas, who put me up for four days unexpectedly out here in Denver when I was dealing with a medical condition, which you'll hear all about on the pod, because I'm a glutton for attention. All right, thanks, guys. Bye.
Live from Denver and Rick's Travel Plans
00:00:33
Speaker
how many cases you guys had? Cases? My name is Ed Warren. I'm here with my wife, Lorraine.
00:00:42
Speaker
Maybe a thousand.
00:00:48
Speaker
Every case is different.
00:00:53
Speaker
Every family is different.
00:00:58
Speaker
Once we start, there's no going back.
00:01:03
Speaker
Anything can happen.
00:01:15
Speaker
All right, we are live here in Denver, Colorado. Well, you and I are live together. This will be coming out Sunday. Rick, we just watched our first horror movie together for the Sunday Scaries here in Denver, and now we're recording live in person together.
00:01:30
Speaker
Our first live episode together. you want to share what brings you out to Denver and why you're still in Denver? First of all, Travis, I had no idea the power of your eye contact. who are it You hold a gaze, man.
00:01:42
Speaker
This is why I typically avert my eyes slightly, but I want the mic and audio quality to come through well. You're all or nothing. You're there there everywhere. All right. um I've seen a lot of shit in these scary movies, man.
00:01:53
Speaker
This is number 10 for ScareMeter for me. Those eyes. Yeah. So I was passing through Denver. was going from... family reunion in Wyoming and then off to work in Montana. and we'd be working on a TV show up there for two months.
00:02:08
Speaker
And, uh, I was like, might as well stop by Denver. I got a lot of good friends in Denver, including yourself. And the plan was I wake up on the 3rd, which is my birthday. You hadn't yet shared that with us once over the last few weeks and reminded me that the birthday. just didn't want to put you in the awkward position of you finding out later was my birthday and then you saying, why didn't you tell me?
00:02:28
Speaker
Again, happy birthday, Rick. Thank you. And then we were going to record a podcast and then me, you, Anna, some of our other friends were going to get a drink after we record the podcast.
Medical Emergency in Denver
00:02:40
Speaker
But the night before, i said, hey, Trav, I'm going to have to split right after the podcast because the actor I'm working for moved up their dates and their meetings and I need to leave that night. And you go,
00:02:51
Speaker
You actually told us that morning of. Oh, I didn't tell you the night before? Shit. That's even worse. Well, you guys have been planning a surprise birthday party for me. You're like, i'm going to break I'm going to break the spell here, Rick. We are throwing a surprise birthday party for you.
00:03:04
Speaker
And is there any way you can change your flight? And I was like, no, I can't. I'm sorry. So sad for me. Sad for you guys. It was very nice. We're going to do that. But we still do the podcast. And you're still going to have the party because you bought the food and the cake. Yeah, we had a cake.
00:03:18
Speaker
So um the podcast we were doing is Final Destinations Bloodlines, which we will release at a later date. um And that was our technically our first live podcast, but we didn't finish it because I was dealing with some medical issues that got me there late.
00:03:32
Speaker
Well, during the recording, you actually sounded great, but moving around at all, I could tell that, again, you're asthmatic and then coming up to this Colorado altitude and maybe a mix with an infection, it sounds like you were very short of breath, like take a few steps and you were wheezing.
00:03:46
Speaker
It was weird. I have asthma. I've had ah asthma my whole life. But typically, if I get winded or i start to wheeze, my rescue inhaler, instant relief, instant relief. Well, it was not relieving me.
00:03:57
Speaker
So you had to, after the podcast said hi to Anna or another friend, Samantha. um I couldn't even lift my bags into the car, into your car. So you lifted my bags in my car.
00:04:08
Speaker
I'm trying to catch a flight. Long story short, you get me to the pharmacy. They don't have the inhaler I need that might help me. you have to leave to go prepare for my party that I'm not going to be at. yep So then I take an Uber to other pharmacies.
00:04:21
Speaker
I'm now getting the point where I can't string a sentence together. So I have this guy take me to urgent care. He also carries my bags in. Urgent care helps me for a bit, but then they're like, yo, you have a fever now at 102.
00:04:34
Speaker
I think the the exact verbiage they used was, we believe this is something more serious that here at the urgent care clinic we cannot fully appreciate. Yeah. Go to the ER. Yep. So our dear friend, Samantha leaves my party.
00:04:46
Speaker
Yep. That I'm not at. That we were all at. She's like, I'm leaving your party that you're not at early to pick you up at urgent care to take you to ER. Yep. So yes, dear listeners, that is three ER trips within four Conjuring movies, which probably explains why I'm really happy to be moving on from this franchise.
Extended Stay and Movie Night
00:05:02
Speaker
Uh, my Ox sat levels going into the ER were 70. I could probably get one word out at a time. It was actually really scary. Uh, they quickly assessed that I had like a viral infection in my lungs.
00:05:13
Speaker
They don't know where it got, I got it from, but it was exacerbated by my asthma and high altitude. And, uh, And yeah, I almost had to spend the night, but now I'm, I had to obviously move my flight. I did not fly to Montana.
00:05:27
Speaker
The doctors were like, you have to rest for four days. I asked if, Hey, watching a movie with my friend and doing a podcast, is that considered rest? And she said, as long as your SAT levels stay solid. We'll continue to monitor through the podcast. But yes, the silver lining is instead of just having a few hours in Denver, we get you for four days.
00:05:43
Speaker
The silver lining of my near-death experience. Now we can laugh about it. and so Can you explain what I have on
'The Conjuring' Film Discussion
00:05:50
Speaker
my neck? Oh, yeah. So you have a device to measure your oxygen levels, your pulse ox, I believe it's described as.
00:05:58
Speaker
Right now, we're getting a reading ah we're we're getting zeros. So I'm assuming it's not taking an accurate reading. Okay. were 95, that is a very healthy amount of oxygen that you're pulling in right now. First time I broke 95 in two days. There we go. Oh, it was very temporary. But anyways, thanks to this, we were able to go see our first horror movie together for the pod. We went and saw The Conjuring Last Rites this morning at 9.30 a.m. m We went to your beloved Belmar Cinemark. Yeah. You know, Trav, it was a lot nicer than you gave it credit for. i feel like you were like, oh, the food's not good. The trailers start too early. But I had a good time. The the staff was nice.
00:06:33
Speaker
they weren't too They weren't too strict on food and drink and backtacks that we brought in. It's a small crowd at 9.30 in the morning on a weekday going to movie theater. And so they're they're very appreciative of the few patrons who do come to the movie theater.
00:06:48
Speaker
But I'm getting ahead of myself. This is the Sunday Scaries. I'm Travis Telerik. I'm Ricky. Downsend. And we are together wrapping up our franchise series on The Conjuring as we cover The Conjuring Last Rites, what is slated to be the last film, um at least the last film involving the Warrens in their case files, which just released.
00:07:09
Speaker
and we're covering in its opening weekend. The end of phase one, i heard one producer call it, as if we're MCU-ifying Conjuring universe. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see where they take it from here, because there would not be a lot of case files to to go off
Themes and Character Analysis
00:07:24
Speaker
of from here. But then again, it was a pretty...
00:07:26
Speaker
liberal interpretation of based on true events so i wouldn't fault them for just uh continuing to be creative if they want to make more installments after this one um but good showing there was like 15 people yeah proud yep i and to your point i i love cinemark i feel like it's you who has given me grief for it not me myself diminished Well, I have to say that I'm not staying with you because you have three kids. And as cute as Gemma is, I'm good not sharing. You didn't want bunk with our youngest. I'm good, especially with my breathing situation.
00:07:56
Speaker
So I'm staying at Samantha's family's place. And there is an AMC walking distance, two of them. Really? i It's like the the perfectly oriented house. Yes. But I chose to go to your turf, Travis. I'm in your city.
00:08:08
Speaker
i wanted to get the Travis treatment. And I'm and i'm glad we did. Yeah. Well, so we saw this morning. So this is also one of the first times we're recording this just a few hours after viewing it together. So this is a real hot take without a lot of time to digest.
00:08:22
Speaker
But Rick, what do you think about this final installment in the Conjuring universe? So you and i tried to stay away from reviews as we normally do, but it was hard because as we're getting, doing research and we're subscribed to too many like horror subs on Reddit and news articles. It's just going to happen. yeah And I think the general consensus was that it was,
00:08:43
Speaker
nowhere near the first two films, but better than the the last one. um But saw some more incendiary remarks, I think, like in the days closing in. Like, I think we both saw the same subreddit post that said, the Conjuring 4 isn't even worth it, whatever that means.
00:08:59
Speaker
My expectations were tanked a little bit right before it. Same. So I say all that to answer your question. I had a good time. yeah It's a fine movie. um Am I going to be running out to tell everybody to go see it? No. But I think if you like conjuring movies and you got nothing to do on a Saturday and you have liked following the Warrens,
00:09:17
Speaker
it ties everything together real nice. It's got some themes that we'll get into. Um, I liked a lot of the relationships, yeah the dynamics. So, um, I do agree with the earlier indications. I do think one and two are on a league of their own.
00:09:32
Speaker
I think four is in a, sorry, I think three is in a league of its own as far as I don't wish to return to that film. yeah But, um, if I ever did a binge again of the Conjuring movies, like I would include this one. Yeah, I'd agree. we were a bit worried because Michael Chavez returned to direct this one who did who did direct three.
00:09:48
Speaker
And I think this was a big step up for him. Like this this was a better film. i Maybe it's all a game of expectations and by lowering those a bit beforehand, that's why I was pleasantly surprised, but I a great time. And I also think in addition to being a good standalone Conjuring film, it did a really nice job wrapping up the franchise overall, the Warren story overall.
00:10:08
Speaker
There's a lot of callbacks that sure we're getting we will get into later in the episode. lot of paying homage homage to the prior installments. And it was really enjoyable for that. I felt like it wasn't too heavy handed, just the right dose where it's a nice little dose of nostalgia for us if we've just been watching all the prior films.
00:10:26
Speaker
I don't think I can continue this podcast until somebody describes what we are podcasting in right now, Travis. Oh yeah. So we are at my house. I do not have a studio. I typically record from my closet, which actually works pretty well. gets a tighter space with clothes surrounding to kind of insulate and make sure there's not too much echo, but that cannot fit the two of us.
00:10:46
Speaker
So we're now in the basement, which is carpeted. This is my girl's play area. And it's aptly put that we have their princess castle. Um, it is made out of cloth and is where they store all their stuffed animals. And we are huddled together sitting underneath this princess castle.
00:11:03
Speaker
This is a good plug to follow us on social media at the Sunday scaries dot pod on Instagram. Okay. I'm sure we will share some, some photos of our current podcasting location. We're two little podcast princes right here. Yes. So you you were talking about how it wraps up the franchise nicely. i do want This is important because some of you who are big Conjuring heads, we might be missing some callbacks to movies that we have not seen.
00:11:26
Speaker
We have only seen the mainline Conjuring movies. Eventually we'll get to our Annabelles and Nuns, but I just want to put that out there in case you're squirming your seat like, oh, what about this? What about that? I'm sorry. We haven't done that yet. um Should we do synopsis and talk a bit about the setup? So as we're discussing this, because, you know, people aren't going be as familiar with this film.
00:11:45
Speaker
They'll probably have just seen it as well, but it's a lot to take in. Yeah. Do you want to set the scene? Let's actually jump into the synopsis earlier this time. I like that. Okay. Paranormal investigators, Lorraine and Ed Warren, take on the last terrifying case involving mysterious entities they must confront.
00:12:03
Speaker
um we open up in on april 20th 1964 uh as a young ed and lorraine run away from a case it's a scary mirror that and this isn't a spoiler because it's in the opening minutes right we can say this yeah yeah yeah you can set it up a woman um by the name of victoria granger has a mirror that drove her father to suicide. yep um Lorraine is revealed to be pregnant, which then ah leads to a pretty harrowing scene with giving Judy birth. She interacts with the mirror, and the mirror seems to have some effect on Lorraine.
00:12:42
Speaker
And it immediately sends her into labor. Correct. So they rush her to a hospital where she gives birth to their daughter, Judy. um there's a scary moment because since it's a rushed delivery, the baby is born stillborn.
00:12:55
Speaker
And the doctors essentially say, I'm so sorry for your loss. Hand her in the baby. They pray over it. They hold it tight. And after about a minute, it does start to breathe. And you find out that this is Judy Warren, who is the daughter, real life to the Warrens as well through the first three films.
00:13:09
Speaker
You know, we we've kind of given Judy some shit throughout these films because she's usually discarded, left on the sidelines. Justice for Judy in this one. She's heavily featured. Yeah, as the franchise has gone on, they've made the Warrens and not just their interaction with each case, but their personal lives lot more integral to the film.
00:13:29
Speaker
And I like this. i think it's another area that Chavez did really well in this film. I think he heightened the level of scares as well. I'm tied to the characters a lot more here. He made them a lot more personable, relatable.
00:13:40
Speaker
it's It's kind of back to the formula even of the first two, where it follows a family, the Smurl family, which is a real Warren case, and their initial interactions with the demonic or paranormal, while it's simultaneously following the Warrens, and then it ties all of them together at the end, which is very similar to the first two.
00:13:58
Speaker
Much more of a haunted house feel again, just like the first two as well. So I think Chavez heard the feedback and took it to heart from the third film, which was a little different, and decided to go back to the well with this one.
00:14:10
Speaker
Before we get to the Smurls, because I want to talk about ah our or pits or sorry our Pennsylvania friends, I did clock. So the Conjuring movies are known for their kind of prolonged opening before we get to the title yeah sequence. The title card. and So i I actually went out and I clocked how long. they would They've gone up in time each time. So Conjuring 1, you have our opening.
00:14:33
Speaker
It gets to about six minutes. Conjuring 2, 10. Opening is about eight minutes before the title drop. Conjuring three is 11. This is 18. Yeah. yeah um And the reason I clocked this, Travis, because I noticed something funny in these opening crawl texts. Yes.
00:14:48
Speaker
I understand it's you have to make each case seem like it's the worst one. But I did write down parts of each of the opening text drops that ah follow the Conjuring title that talks about the case because in each one precede the title in this case.
00:15:04
Speaker
Correct. But it's that yellow font. Yeah. It's like Star Wars. You got rolling text coming. And I like that they've kept it they've kept it consistent each time. So ah only once do they not make it seem like it's the worst case ever. And that's the second one. So I'm going to go through these.
00:15:19
Speaker
Conjuring one. Out of the thousands of cases throughout their controversial careers, there was only one case so malevolent they've kept it locked away until now. that's Conjuring one. yeah it's the It's the worst case ever, right? It's the worst.
00:15:30
Speaker
All right. Conjuring two. it would draw the Warrens into one of their most diabolical cases. So that's the most realistic we're going to get. yeah It's just one of their most diabolical cases. But then three, we get back to ramping up the stakes here.
00:15:43
Speaker
The tragic events that followed made nationwide headlines and led Ed and Lorraine Warren to the most sinister discovery of their career. yeah I thought the malevolent one from the first one was the most.
00:15:54
Speaker
Well, they're using different adjectives. It's true. Well, no glad you said that because we have a new one for the one we just watched. But in 1986, in the suburbs of Pennsylvania, they would face an evil unlike anything they had ever encountered.
00:16:07
Speaker
This would devastate their family and bring their careers to an end.
00:16:12
Speaker
It's funny that they only qualify or temper down the second one, especially because that was the case they had the least involvement in, the Enfield Poltergeist, where they were just tangentially related to it, but made a whole film about it. so Maybe that's why they qualified that one a little less than the other three. Maybe Warner Brothers was like, no, make it more. And Wanda's like, guys, look, they were there for like 24 hours. Let's just yeah be realistic here.
00:16:33
Speaker
um So, yeah, then we meet ah the Smurls. What an unfortunate name, by the way. Yeah. is During her first confirmation, it was like, oh, we have Heather Elizabeth Smurl. I believe all daughters again, just like the first film with the Perrin family, yeah which is fortunate because they can marry into different families and hopefully take on that last name.
00:16:55
Speaker
Yes, Smurl. So like you were saying, Trav, very much mirrors the first two films that we are invested in the the Warrens' personal lives, but then we jump into somebody else's lives. yeah I mean, I guess the third one did that with the Glatzels, but the gladel but not ah not to the same degree.
00:17:10
Speaker
yeah um So this is in West Pittston, Pennsylvania, 1986. nineteen eighty six I don't know if you've seen Deer Hunter. I have. Okay, I got a little deer hunter vibes. You're in like a steel mill town. Okay. yeah um Rust belt situation.
00:17:25
Speaker
There's an event, not a wedding, but a confirmation and it's kind of film documentary style, I would say in some moments. um Kind of a lazy camera, if you will, it's just floating getting some home video esque vibes, which maybe mirrors the dad who had the camera glued to his face.
00:17:41
Speaker
But ah that's just to set the scene that this is the new family for yeah the two girls that are twins. They're younger. And then Heather and Dawn that are and teenagers. Yep. And so the s small family is the case file that they use then for this film.
00:17:52
Speaker
The real one case file that is the basis for this film. And Trav, how would you say the Warrens are doing professionally at this time? Well, let's use that as a tangent to kind of get into themes as well. What we like about this film, because I really like how it portrays the Warrens because In the film, it shows that they're aging. I think we touched on this in the third film, and there's some real consequences that come with that. ed has to be very mindful what he eats. He's had heart problems already recovering from the heart attack in the third film.
00:18:19
Speaker
And you could tell that the effects of old age have slowed them down, even to the point where at the start of this film, they're no longer taking on any cases. And then shows them at their lecture hall, very similar to what you get in the first film where they're teaching what they've learned in dealing with the paranormal.
00:18:34
Speaker
But this time when the lights come up, there are very few people there listening to them. It's kind of showed the world has moved on from their interest and maybe belief in the paranormal as more skeptics have started to poke holes in that.
00:18:46
Speaker
really Really disappointed in the hecklers in the crowd going after that hello hanging fruit of Ghostbusters, yeah which I know we're guilty of, but we didn't say it mean-spirited like these guys do.
Real-life Inspirations and Creative Liberties
00:18:54
Speaker
but You could do better than Ghostbusters. I mean, I guess it just it had just released two years prior, so it was on the minds of everybody, but they got little heckled.
00:19:02
Speaker
And again, this is a good period piece. They're diving into the 80s this time. i know you'll want to bring up, or we can talk about right now, the music, the clothes. I feel like the needle drops have only gotten him better as this franchise has...
00:19:13
Speaker
moved on and it does capture the spirit of the eighties. It feels like to me. um Yeah. I'm glad you mentioned that because just like the last three films, um the way we meet our case family is through a needle drop.
00:19:25
Speaker
And then sometimes a long shot, a long unbroken shot. actually rewatched the second. He doesn't do it in the second one. um He just follows Janet for a bit, but I'll, again, briefly, Conjuring 1 was Time of the Season by the Zombies when we meet the Perrins.
00:19:39
Speaker
Conjuring 2 was Bus Stop by the Hollies when we meet Janet Hodgson as she goes to her house and we meet the rest of the Hodgson's. Conjuring 3 was Call Me by Blondie when we meet the Glatzel family in their new place.
00:19:52
Speaker
This movie, Conjuring 4, The Last Rites, it is She Sells Sanctuary by The Cult. Yep. A song I love reminds me of high school football that was in the weight room yeah all the time.
00:20:03
Speaker
And this is how we meet the Smurl family. Again, really like that Chavez went back to the the unbroken shot. Um, we're getting to see the chaos of moving into a new home. Um, this overwhelmed father, a pretty dialed in mother.
00:20:18
Speaker
I really liked the opening scene. I liked that. They keep doing that all four songs, all four movies. And then, um, unless you have something on that specifically trap, I have the other three. one piece yeah Yes. Let's get into the rest of the music. Cause just tying back to what you're saying earlier.
00:20:30
Speaker
You have this 18 minutes of a flashback showing the Warren's first case they ran away from the birth of their daughter, her starting to grow up. That's when you get to the title card and then you jump forward to the screen shows 1986 and text.
00:20:43
Speaker
And that's where the needle drop hits here. And the music, it's so catchy. It's so catchy. It is a common trick in film, and I've seen this plenty of times, but it never fails to excite me and get me stoked for them.
00:20:57
Speaker
When you see the year flash, it says, hey, we're now starting the next chapter of the main installment of the film, and it immerses you right into it with a good needle drop. And good needle drop because I feel like the cult is underrated.
00:21:07
Speaker
I'm going to say, I know underrated is an overrated term to use, but I really don't think they get their due. You don't hear this song everywhere. It's not a jukebox. Yeah. It's not London Colin again. It's not London Colin. It's the second film and they use London Colin.
00:21:22
Speaker
Very quickly is the three other needle drops that I wrote down. um What is it by Curtis Liggins and the Indications, which I believe was playing during one of their parties where a chicken appears. yes the birthday party that was ed warren's birthday party get into that chicken yes i want to ask you about that um let's dance by bowie yep one of my all-time favorites um and a return to van van morrison with comfort you which was at the end of the film yeah so yeah i thought a great a great menagerie of uh of deep cuts plus favorites i mean let's let's dance is an all-timer yes but i'm always happy to hear it so good stuff good music All right. Well, that's most of it. Anything else on theme before we jump into production? Oh, yeah. um I don' had a little bit, actually.
00:22:04
Speaker
I like that this movie explored the roles that we all play in systems, whether that be familial systems, professional systems, romantic systems.
00:22:16
Speaker
um And what I mean by that, and I'm going to this in a non-spoiler way, but just to prime you, if you haven't seen the film or if you've seen it and you want to reflect on it, um ed and ed and lorraine's roles as protectors okay so they're faced with retiring or as some characters in the movie call it running away and they're confronted with this and they have to decide if this is the right thing to do with the for their family or do they need to protect those who can't protect themselves and so they're wrestling with that um i think tony tony spera who's a new character we'll learn about
00:22:47
Speaker
Tony Spera, played by Ben Hardy, who I thought was great in this film. did a good job. His role as a fiancé and as a failed cop, something we'll learn more about later. But um he's in between roles. He's in in between identities. And this is a current theme that comes up for him, too.
00:23:03
Speaker
Who is he to Judy? Is he is he um in competition with her father, who is not as excited about Judy potentially marrying somebody as... Lorraine is. Well, as a girl dad, i feel like that is a common something that you you grapple with is i am the father figure. I raised my daughters. And then, you know, at some point there's going to be another man in their lives to take over and take over as their protector, really, and provider in a lot of ways. Not to get too much into common tropes of...
00:23:31
Speaker
men in a, you know, husband wife relationship. But I do like how the movie exposed us to that as this new person is introduced into Judy's life and then wants to be more involved with that and seeing Patrick Wilson as Ed Warren kind of grapple with, is he okay letting go of his little girl?
00:23:49
Speaker
Well, and I thought of you, Trav, because as a girl dad and, you know, share what you want to share, but, but the Ed pretty much opens up a bit, and again, not a spoiler, but he says, the reason this is hard for me is because you see her as your fiance or a girl you love.
00:24:06
Speaker
We still see her as the girl fighting for her life because of those complications with birth, because of her extra sensitivity to the paranormal. um How did that resonate with you? Because he specifically mentioned ah moment that they thought they would lose her.
00:24:19
Speaker
Yeah. I mean... and I have a different experience with my girls, but I think generally speaking, yes, like i i do think as a father, i still remember all my girls' births very acutely. And in remembering them as a baby, it's hard to wrestle with seeing them grow up. You love them for who they are now, but you also remember them for who they first were when you first met them right when they were born.
00:24:42
Speaker
You'll have to revisit this podcast when they start dating, Travis. ah Oh, God. Yeah. All right. Getting back to these roles. I'm almost done with this. Father Gordon's role as a symbol of the church. you know um We'll get into his involvement later, but he's he's struggling as well. He's back there. Steve Coulter. All four films.
00:25:02
Speaker
Back to back to back champ. yeah ah love Father Gordon. um Mr. Smurl, his role as a father as well. he gets shit from the kids about dad. Can you, can you fix this haunting? Is it because you don't know what to do or you, you can't do anything about it. So he's, he's wrestling. And then, um, lastly,
00:25:19
Speaker
There is a mirror in this film that, ah without giving anything away, i think shows these sides of us that I just mentioned, all these negative things. Am I good enough? Am I running away?
00:25:30
Speaker
I think the mirror shows us those bad parts of ourselves, and they manifest in some ways. So that's my... Do these themes... Does this make sense? Do my themes make sense, Trav? Because I just thought of this yeah as we were walking to the car. I think the film captures a lot of those. I like that. It's a film that feels like it has not an overwhelming amount to say, but enough to say where there's meeting behind it.
00:25:49
Speaker
Yeah. I like that. And it wasn't overt. And you have a mirror that is usually symbolic in some way. And I, I think even if a mirror is overt, it, it was done tactfully.
00:25:59
Speaker
It felt like i had a lot more to say than the third one, which seemed to be the main takeaway was sometimes we should celebrate murders. so Yeah. yeah So sometimes we should use superstition to like maybe get a few extra side hustle bucks.
00:26:12
Speaker
Yeah. All right. All right. Production notes. So we saw it again Friday morning. It just released. So this is all still very new information. But the Thursday preview set a record for the franchise with $8.5 million dollars in its Thursday preview. So that is the high point, not just for the four main films, but the entire Conjuring universe.
00:26:32
Speaker
So I believe on our last episode, we talked about initial projections and tracking. They were expecting around 35 to 40 million for opening weekend. And now I see some sites upward revising that.
Casting and Production Insights
00:26:43
Speaker
One that I was looking at called Box Office Theory, actually predicting potentially north of 60 million for opening weekend. shit. So people are very excited about this film, which is great, again, because I was a little worried after the third one let us down a bit.
00:26:55
Speaker
but it seems that fans are flocking to the theater again. Again, the third one too came out during COVID. So maybe that's why we're we're tracking a little stronger on this one. So box office theory is a pretty reputable source. It's cited a lot on the box office subreddit.
00:27:10
Speaker
I'll also say if Warner Brothers can pull this off, They'll break their previous record of, I believe I'm doing this right. It was, was it six films in a row that opened to 40 million or over? And this, if this would be their seventh consecutive, if it goes 40 million or over, we've brought this up in a past episode, but they have been killing it this year. It's funny how many horror films we've discussed that have been Warner brothers releases.
00:27:33
Speaker
Yeah. Sinners, final destination bloodlines, which we haven't released yet weapons and this. um Okay, so that's box office. Huge box office tease here as it's starting to release, and we'll report back next week with the updated numbers for the opening weekend. $60 million, really? $60 million, yeah. Jesus, that would be amazing. It did have the highest budget out of it any Conjuring film to date. The budget was reported at $55 million to make this film, and so they they brought a lot more money to it, but initially it's looking pretty promising that they're going to get a return back.
00:28:03
Speaker
Should have paid their CG artists a little bit more. Yeah, we talked about Michael Chavez. He's returning as director here. James Wan, again, who originated the franchise, him and David Leslie Johnson did the story.
00:28:18
Speaker
David Leslie Johnson was the writer on the third film, also returns in addition to doing story with Wan. He's one of the three screenwriters for this Yeah, who are the three? he He was joined by Ian Goldberg and Richard Nang, who helped pen this one, the screenplay.
00:28:31
Speaker
Okay. And then other notable things, i just want to make sure, because sometimes we skim over this, I feel like we really need to give praise to Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga, again reprising their roles as a and Lorraine Warren.
00:28:45
Speaker
I think they've been rock solid this entire franchise. Like I don't think it would have worked had they lost one or both of them throughout this and they had to bring in different casting choices. They make me forget how much I dislike the real Warrens. Yes.
00:28:56
Speaker
And yeah it's a wonder to me why they always end the film with the credits that show the real ones because then it reminds me. Yes. They're just such grifters, man. And you see them on Larry King. But before that happens, like in the middle when I'm not hearing about that it's a real story and then they remind us it's a real story.
00:29:12
Speaker
they take me to a different conjuring universe that isn't real that is ran by vera and patrick and i their ability to transport me away from these real life hucksters is what they do best patrick wilson is quite the glow up for ed warren who is much more overweight i mean the franchise tries to capture his heart problems and it makes a lot more sense when you see the real ed warren who i'm sure was struggling with hypertension Looks like he's from new Jersey. He probably had one too many cheesesteaks when he was out in Pennsylvania working this case. yeah It looks like he frequents the deli.
00:29:46
Speaker
um And then also probably the biggest production note. So as you mentioned, this film flash flashes back to show us the birth of Judy. Now, Judy and the franchise to date... was played by Sterling Jairns in the first three films.
00:29:59
Speaker
Again, we kind of laughed at she had a small but recurring role. They decided for this film, they wanted to recast her and they brought in Mia Tomlinson. It was cited that just due to age, because again, Sterling Jairns is only 21 right now. This is flash forwarding so much to 1986 that Mia Tomlinson at 30, they thought would better portray an actual adult woman in this film.
00:30:22
Speaker
um Other casting notes. Well, actually, let me hold you right there because what is really important and probably a dull knife I'm jumping on way too early. So this is based on the Smurl case file.
00:30:34
Speaker
I think there was a lot of creative liberties taken in tying in Judy into the film to get the Warrens more engaged. a lot of that was fictionalized for the sake of the film most notably the real judy warren was not born in 1964 she was born in 1946 so she would have been 40 years old when this case happened not their young adult girl finding her person and looking to get married but a full-fledged adult middle-aged even and so uh They had to shift her birth year a bit, I think, to work with this franchise and for the setup specifically for this film.
00:31:07
Speaker
So then they should have just included Ed Warren's 14-year-old girlfriend. It could have changed her age. She could have been 26 or something. She could have been the main focal point of our interest with the Warrens. it it It would be controversial with a lowercase c. Not a big deal. but Yes, so the real-life Judy Warren was much older when all the prior films were occurring in their case files, and they they kind of just stuck to that fabrication here by making her much younger than she was real life.
00:31:30
Speaker
Before we get on the Smurls, because you did research on the Smurls, and I want to hear about that. um I did want to just call out Bo Gadsden, or is that B.A. Gadsden? Bo, yeah. The female actress is one of the daughters of the Smurl family.
00:31:44
Speaker
Bo Gadsden played by, or sorry, Dawn Smurl, who was played by Bo Gadsden, and her sister, Heather Smurl, played by Keela Lord Cassidy. um Similar age teens, the two older girls in the Smurl family.
00:31:55
Speaker
um I thought that Keela Lord Cassidy looked a lot like Isabel Adjani from Possession. Oh, love Possession. Yeah, possession I could kind of see it.
00:32:05
Speaker
And ah she just kind of got that ghosty look to her. I also like, and i maybe I'm stepping on winners and losers a bit, so I'll just put it here, but... I think we're finally in an age now where we are not rewarding and and propping up perfect teeth.
00:32:20
Speaker
We're getting back to the naturalistic teeth because so many of our actors have veneers and it just looks so, yeah they just pearlize everything and whitewash everything. And Keela Lord Cassidy, who is beautiful, has not perfect teeth.
00:32:35
Speaker
Did you have braces as a kid? I did. I did not. So I embrace my natural teeth. Never been braced. Looks good, Travis. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. A little crowded the bottom. It matches our white gazebo here. um But I just, I thought that they too, even though i' a little confused because they look so similar, I really liked their performances. But tell us about the Smurls. One other note on casting. So we talked about Ben Hardy, who plays Tony Spera. Again, Tony Spera, real-life individual, really does marry Judy Warren, and actually is really the head of the Warren estate now that Ed and Lorraine have passed away.
00:33:05
Speaker
um he was He is portrayed by Ben Hardy, who is Archangel in X-Men Apocalypse. So I was like, I know I've seen him before. That's where he's from. Not one of the well-received X-Men movies, but I still liked it a lot.
00:33:16
Speaker
Not Dark Phoenix, but that's in... X-Men Apocalypse. Apocalypse, not a bad movie. yeah Compared to Dark Phoenix, it's the masterpiece. Yeah. All right, let's talk about the Smurls. So this is the real case file that they used as a basis for this movie.
00:33:30
Speaker
Now, chronologically, it works pretty well because this did happen in 1986. And it was also one of the Warren's last case files. In fact, it was probably their last case file of note. um They did claim to work on thousands, but this was the last one that made a lot of publicity because after the case, the The Warrens, as well as the Smurl family, as well as a local journalist, ended up penning a book called The Haunted. Even when you say Smurl, your face goes ugly.
00:33:55
Speaker
It's bad. But they they made a book out of it. There's media rights, like we've talked about with Warrens a few times before, and probably the less glamorous part of it, that they made sure to hype it up and then make money off the case afterwards. Where have i heard before? Yes.
Symbolism and Personal Connections
00:34:09
Speaker
So this was 1986. This was in Pennsylvania. There wasn't anything to tantamount with the haunting that i think stands out from maybe other cases other than two notes. This one is a slight spoiler. They really did denote that their dog was thrown up against a wall from the demon, which you see very graphically in the film.
00:34:26
Speaker
I did not know that going into it. i only learned it after watching it. But you do see dog violence. Don't worry, the dog survives and is okay. um they also they they say that They say an entity picked up the dog and threw it against the wall? Yes.
00:34:40
Speaker
yes And they also say that the entity pushed one of their daughters down the stairs. which You see a few people fall down the stairs in this film. thought it was the grandma in this case. Let's get to this. because um I have an app called Run P. Yes.
00:34:53
Speaker
ah which I use religiously. So it's an app that you've brought it up before on the pod. Have I? Yeah. Well, if you haven't heard that one, hear me out. It gives you like three or four moments in a film where you can take a pee break.
00:35:06
Speaker
It tells you what line prompts you to get up or what action takes place and prompts you to get up. It tells you how many minutes you're allowed to take a pee for. And then if you open it up, it tells you what you missed.
00:35:17
Speaker
Trav, you had to go to the bathroom. Mm-hmm. um i said hey wait like five minutes we're almost to pizza you bought like a 16 ounce coffee right before we uh watched the films it was a little sometimes more is more couldn't handle it and it the the the text was when father gordon tells the smurl family that truth will hear their case you fucked up and just saw the gordon father gordon sit down with the mom and you're like oh he's gonna tell him I would like to share the blame here because you were incessantly tapping me saying, I think the scene's coming up. I think the scene's coming up. And the cue you showed me was Father Gordon shows up in a taxi cab and he did show up in a taxi cab to the Smurl home. The cue was Father Gordon tells Miss Smurl that the church will hear their case.
00:36:03
Speaker
That's the cue. Oh, okay. saw taxi cab in the run P notes. So as soon as I saw that taxi cab, I was out of there. He shows up. just a few minutes after his first taxi cab incident in a second. I just think what's funny is that you went to pee.
00:36:17
Speaker
That's when Ms. Smurl tells father Gordon that her, yes, her mother was pushed down the stairs. yeah And then he he goes around trying to help out. He says that the church even know he's there. Right. When you get back to your seat, he goes, yes, Ms. Smurl, the church will hear your case. I literally sat back down right when the queue was. So I didn't mistime it. It is funny. So again, they might've got,
00:36:38
Speaker
who was thrown down the stairs incorrect but i think you also see the smirrell dad fall down some attic stairs you see lorraine warren fall down some stairs there's a lot of people going down the stairs in this movie yeah so they they made sure to drive that point home of the case file outside of that there weren't a lot of incidents that were that notable in the real case file that's where you start to look at some of the creative liberties juan and michael chavez take things that were part of the real case file but not captured on the film they also alleged a lot of physical and sexual assault of the family members so this is where it gets a little scary to wonder If there wasn't really a demonic entity, what was going on in the household? a lot of times- To the girls?
00:37:11
Speaker
to they I could just see family members from the research. I didn't dig much deeper to see who was alleged to have been assaulted. But um generally, the Warrens are typically working with not necessarily broken families, but families of lesser means. And so I just hope everyone there is okay. But they chose not to portray that in the film at all, at least the sexual part of it.
00:37:32
Speaker
What was completely fabricated for the sake of the film, though, was the mirror. The mirror is not present in this case file, nor really notable in any other case files. That really is the linchpin, maybe device that ties Judy back to the Smyrtle family. Again, I guess we're trying to stay spoiler free, but I did want to mention this notable, creepy looking mirror.
00:37:50
Speaker
It looks like an antique. It is oversized and there are three cherubs on the top of it. And this was very reminiscent of my childhood. I probably haven't shared this with you before, but my dad founded and started a mannequin manufacturing company. what And so, yes, the James Telerik actually is a pioneer in the mannequin industry. People have written books and, uh, had him on record as the big breakthrough was the magnetic arms. These used to all be a single piece and it was really hard to dress them, undress them in the clothing stores, bringing in the magnetic arms where you could take them on and off, made it a lot easier to, uh,
00:38:25
Speaker
find different poses for the mannequins. blowing my mind right now. But because I grew in this household. Was your father a consultant on the the film Maniac or or the remake with Elijah Wood? If so, he hasn't shared it with me yet.
00:38:37
Speaker
But yes, he's big, good mannequins. We should have him on the guest if we ever covered either of the Maniac movies, which I believe, I haven't seen them, but they but they feature a mannequin pretty heavily. Okay. So he has a patent for the removable arms?
00:38:49
Speaker
Yes. So his company, that was their big breakthrough. And i mean, they were a large mannequin manufacturer, in fact, of largest in the world for years. So basically, your dad made his bones by dismembering mannequins. Exactly. Yeah.
00:39:01
Speaker
That's- Oh, it gets worse. So because he made mannequins, the house we grew up in, and this is what I'm trying to share, we had mannequins all around the home in front of my parents' bedroom, decorative, so to speak.
00:39:13
Speaker
We had one with three cherubs that was down right off our dining room table that looked a lot like the ones right above the mirror. And so as you can imagine as a kid, and probably when I got into horror, I've mentioned this before watching Scooby Doo or watching the gateway show, gateway movie into horror, Halloween Town on Disney Channel, Nightmare Before Christmas.
00:39:30
Speaker
I would get nightmares in the middle of the night, like a lot of kids do. And I would want to leave my bedroom and go to my parents. But as you can imagine, it's and very scary. in fact, scarier when you leave your room and you see shadows cast on the wall in the low light of human figures all across your house because there's mannequins everywhere.
00:39:47
Speaker
And so it usually terrified me enough where I would just do a 180 and go right back into my room. It was too risky to run to my parents' room. Trust me, Trap, you don't have to explain yourself why it's scary to wake up in the the night and there's a bunch of mannequins in your house.
00:40:00
Speaker
And there'd be like even, you know, there's different types of mannequins. Some would be just the torso without a head. Some would be just a head for hats and stuff. And those were littered all over our house as decorative items. Did you ever like befriend any of them? Was this part of your playtime? Did you stay away from them? Like, was this dad's work? Or like, how did you separate?
00:40:16
Speaker
I never made friends with the mannequins. And i I didn't dress them up. Most the ones we had for decorative were actually nude. Again, they're not that graphic. Tell me, you touched a few butts. I can't imagine he's toughific i cannot recall specific. You specifically. When I was a kid walking through Macy's, you better believe.
00:40:33
Speaker
i was just making sure everything was there. i think mannequins over the years have become more realistic and more body positive. But back in the 90s when these mannequins were in the home when I was a child, it was like Barbie and Ken dolls. They looked great.
00:40:45
Speaker
They were super trim, super tall. Great or... or Not great. but They set an unreal standard for what I was achieve for myself. I'm not a big Kate Moss guy.
00:40:55
Speaker
You get what I'm saying? I'm more of a Sofia Vergara. You know where I'm going with this. full-bodied mannequin. Right. So, Trav, I was going to leave this for winners and losers, but so much mirror talk, I got to say it now. Unless you want to punt this, you tell me, but I did a top five movie mirrors list.
00:41:12
Speaker
is this a good place to do it? Sure. I have one that I think is clearly my number one, so I hope it's on your list. Okay. My fifth one, i'm goingnna go five to one is it kind of this is a bit of a stretch because it's not a movie. Yeah.
00:41:24
Speaker
It's a TV show that had a movie Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. Okay. So um Rita Repulsa in her, you know, evil intentions, in one of the episodes, got her hands on this ancient relic called the Mirror of Destruction.
00:41:37
Speaker
And what this mirror would do, it would destroy anything in its reflection. So I had to put that out there. It's not in the Mighty Morphin. This cut for the best mirrors of all time. I'm curious now to know what the top four are. The other four, I get bit more mainstream, but I loved Mighty Morphin Power Rangers as a kid. Loved them. Jason forever.
00:41:53
Speaker
Number four, I have the mirror fight in Enter the Dragon. Yeah. So Bruce Lee at the very end, he has this very climactic scene yeah fighting to the enemy, mirrors everywhere.
00:42:03
Speaker
have not seen that one. Enter the Dragon is great. um Great scene. I have my top three now. i've just thought of the top of my head, so I'm hoping you're going to touch on all three of these. All right, let's see if I do it. um Number three is Mirror of Irised from Harry Potter.
00:42:17
Speaker
Oh, no, that was not mine, but I like it. Well, I am thinking on the spot here, but yes, I can see why that would be in the top five. happy to hear what one I missed then. So, um you know, that's the special mirror that tells you what you desire. Irised spelled backwards is desire. yeah ah Harry encounters it, I think, in the first or second movie yeah i forget which one but dumbledore shows yes number two you talking to me yeah you talking to me travis bickle in taxi driver when he's talking to his reflection uh iconic iconic scene some great ones all right i can't wait to hear it and what's your number one is snow white oh my goodness mirror mirror on the wall that that is number one has to be number one personified uh evil and it's a line we use all the time
00:43:02
Speaker
Mirror, mirror on the wall. Tell me who the fairest one of all. Yes, I agree. That should be number one. That should be number one. I'm missing I'm missing in here. Here's three just thought of. All right, let's go. Top of my head since you just brought this up. The shot in the film Contact.
00:43:15
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Where you realize it is one of the... the most impressive cinematography. I'm very familiar with it. I didn't and didn' include it because I haven't seen Contact, but I know the shot. Tell us. It's it's really cool. The cinematographer films a long scene in a moving shot where you are following this young girl. Running.
00:43:30
Speaker
And you realize when she reaches the medicine cabinet that they have been filming the entire shot via a mirror. You think that you are going to see her open up the mirror in the reflection, but you realize you've been watching the reflection the entire time.
00:43:42
Speaker
So a really cool feat in the history of cinematography. Number two... is a play on Snow White, but the mirror in Shrek, where it shows Princess Fiona. That's where Lord Farquaad selects from his top three choices of which princess he wants to go after.
00:43:56
Speaker
then my number one, I'm a Mike Flanagan guy through and through, and he made a horror film called Oculus, one of my favorites of his films, which is fully, you know, centered on a possessed mirror, or a demonic mirror. And so...
00:44:09
Speaker
I thought you would maybe give a shout out to that since we are a movie podcast. I have it in Oculus. Oh, man. um Good movie. I guess I was thinking horror films specifically. I could have mentioned the glance that Marion Cain gives the mirror after she steals the money in Psycho. Okay. It's kind of iconic.
00:44:23
Speaker
And then in The Shining, I feel like we get a lot of good mirror stuff. Red Rum is written on the mirror. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. yeah But Oculus is fully focused on like the mirror is the central object in the film. Yeah. Yeah.
00:44:33
Speaker
Good mirror talk. like that. But yeah, this this could be top 10, the mirror the movie. conquering four here last night i would say it flirts with top 10 okay but snow white goat snow white goat uh any other production notes should we move on to our scarometer um yeah let's go scarometer all right scarometer i thought this was scarier than the third one i'm back up closer to the first two i gave this one a seven out of ten ah okay yeah okay i give it a six
Film Scare Factor and Emotional Impact
00:45:00
Speaker
Okay. so And you gave the first two an eight, I think is where you wound up. And I think I was at an eight, at least for the first one, I was a seven for the second.
00:45:07
Speaker
Yeah. So you find this scarier than three, but less scary than one and two. Yes, I feel strange now um giving it a lower rating than you since I literally grabbed you at one point.
00:45:17
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, we should bring this up. yeah Your reactions, i in general, have repressed a lot of my emotions. And so when I see a horror movie, I am scared. Because you brought mannequins all over the place and you have some psychological trauma, Travis. Yes, I'm a lot more muted.
00:45:33
Speaker
But you were not afraid to let me know when you were scared, when you were finding things funny, that the audible laugher grabbing me when you were scared. And when you did reach out and grab me, it wasn't even, I'd say top five scariest parts of the film. You caught me off guard. And again, worried about your health. i thought maybe you were having a breathing incident. I looked over just to make sure you weren't like,
00:45:52
Speaker
about to pass out on me. Your pulse ox hadn't dipped below 80, but I had to put my ox emitter on and make sure I wasn't going below 90. Um, well, i I want to talk about this because seems like you decently scared. I'm surprised you're only doing, so I gave jaws like a six, didn't you? No, jaws is three. jaw yeah yeah So this is controversial for some, my friends.
00:46:13
Speaker
Um, namely Ryan Rosenbaum and Joe Cooper who give me shit for doing this, but I love going to the movies by myself as you do too. Yeah. But I also think going to the movies with somebody else can be a social endeavor, yeah but you have to do it the right way.
00:46:27
Speaker
I don't believe in talking incessantly throughout a movie, but I do think giving nonverbal cues or and sometimes whispers to indicate what you're feeling about something is a fun part of going to the movies and there's a right way to do it.
00:46:39
Speaker
And I think it's very easy to hear that and say, Oh, this guy's talking to their movie. No, it's not like, yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll go, oh, or, oh yeah, or no, or I'll whisper something. And I i always try to pick up with the other person's vibe. You're like, you're lower middle. Like you don't like to do it as much.
00:46:54
Speaker
I think I reached out to you once during the whole film. it was very early on when I realized that they had cast me at Tomlinson as Judy. I had to make that up a note to you. That was the only time I spoke to you the entire film.
00:47:04
Speaker
I think you had a few more. think it five to one. yeah Five to one ratio of me reaching out to you. i think that's about right. i try i try to I try to play it the right way, but it is fun going to movies with people.
00:47:15
Speaker
And I think it is like the grab. yeah i don't even know what that was what happened. I was just scared. Honestly, I'm okay with the grab. It made it a scarier experience for me when out of nowhere, the guy next to me grabs me. So you don't get that when I when i go by myself.
00:47:28
Speaker
You're not getting grabbed by guys. usually Usually there's not men groping me at the movie theater if I'm there by myself. All right. So yeah, I'm a six, you're a seven. okay I'm a six, you're Yeah, on the scariest side of films we've covered thus far.
00:47:40
Speaker
Highlights. Highlights. oh So we'll talk about some of the scarier scenes in a bit. So I actually wanted to reach for two scenes I would equally share as my highlights because they are very similar. This would be Ed's birthday party at about the midpoint through the film, as well as, and this is full spoiler now. yeah So if you haven't seen the film, you can tune out. We'll put du we'll do a little spoiler announcement right here.
00:48:01
Speaker
Yeah. Now that we've warned you about spoiling. It would be Ed's birthday, which is about the midpoint of the film. And then Judy and Tony's wedding at the very end. and Um, I like when happy moments are done well in horror films. And both of these were chock full of callbacks to previous characters from the franchise, especially at the wedding.
00:48:22
Speaker
You get members of the Perron family from the first film, the Hodgson family from the second, and then even little David Glatzel, the kid with the glasses you said looked like Stephen King, shows up all at the wedding. You you also get the... you know Some of the regulars, but you you have um the the police officer from the first film, Brad Hamilton, okay um who's played by John Brotherton. And you have Drew, played by Shannon Cook, showing up as well.
00:48:45
Speaker
I'm so curious what the former families from previous movies got paid because there are rules, there are SAG rules, yeah where if you don't say a line, you're in a different pay category. oh So I'm not sure if they went outside those bounds or they demanded something else. but i'm just curious what they got paid because notably none of them said anything. They just smiled waved.
00:49:04
Speaker
It was the highest budget Conjuring film of all time. And again, the Brad Hamilton, the cop does have a few funny lines of dialogue at the birthday party. And Drew has a few speaking lines, which Drew's been in every film. So it wasn't too surprising to see him in this one as well. But they were happier times in just highlighting the Warren's humanity. And I liked it, even though, again, as we always preface, real life Warren's not big fans of.
00:49:27
Speaker
I thought this was great because I have become attached to Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga's depiction of them through these films. And they brought back the right amount of people. um and And really only at these two points where I wasn't too heavy handed with the paying tribute to the past films.
00:49:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I related a bit to Ed Warren because he was seeking medical attention on his birthday, just like I was, you know, him with the heart, me with the lungs. So that touched. Yeah. During the birthday specifically, there's this scene, I think you said, where Let's Dance comes on by Bowie.
00:49:57
Speaker
And, you know, Patrick Wilson takes on this new character of Tony who just he just found out he's dating his daughter and they play each other in ping pong. It was really entertaining to see a heated ping pong match. It's up there with like the ping pong scenes from Forrest Gump.
00:50:12
Speaker
It's fun. at least right into It leads right up to where Tony asks for Ed and Lorraine's blessing for him to propose to their daughter, which is also, I thought, really well done.
00:50:22
Speaker
How he inadvertently spoils it. Judy walks in while the ring's still out. Great recovery. And he just proposes on the spot. Great recovery. yeah So I love that. So it was the less scary parts that really stood out to me that I thought was done well. I feel like a lot of times in horror, it's too cheesy, right? Where they actually try to add...
00:50:39
Speaker
plot or resonance to the characters and it feels slapped on or campy and here i thought they did a good job i think you're right where whereas the third one they they spread us so thin with all these different characters yeah and situations and cases some real some not real instead of going laterally here we went deep into two groups of people and really got to know them yeah um Yeah.
00:51:03
Speaker
Good backhand by Patrick Wilson, by the way. Yeah. He turns out he's a great ping pong player. At least the Ed Warren, he portrays as a great ping pong player. I, I, I do think Gump would still take him behind the woodshed though. Oh yeah. Gump. No question. Gump represented the U S in the Olympics. Uh,
00:51:18
Speaker
But we need more. i like I like a friendly competition between a dad and the man courting to his daughter. Yes. You know, little show of force.
00:51:28
Speaker
Well, there had been a lot of tension up until that point. I think that was the first melting of of the ice, so to speak, where they started to respect the other. And I thought that was captured really well by playing each other ping pong. If you're in that position, are you playing your hardest or you just playing? Oh, yes. yeah you're You're playing to win respect. Right.
00:51:46
Speaker
So, I mean, you know, I play golf a lot with Anna's dad, my father-in-law. And he's the son of a bitch. He's like 72 and he can still kick my ass most days. So there's a few times I can win his respect. You can call your son of a bitch who's 72. He's an athlete. He was a college baseball Hall of Famer, still really athletic.
00:52:04
Speaker
Again, 72, he can drive the ball like 280, like still just as far as me. So very impressive. Hopefully he gets back to listen to the pod again. Yeah, give it him a shout out there. I know you scared him away with your ah not safe for work Reddit search history, but maybe I'll let him know. but we don't Besides you calling out ah how you like your mannequins, this one's more PG.
00:52:24
Speaker
um All right. My highlight is i absolutely love this little detour scene that involved Father Gordon. Yeah, that was great. Probably my favorite side character of this franchise. It's always interesting how he floats in and out of the story.
00:52:39
Speaker
In this case, he is very concerned by what the Smurls are dealing with. yeah So he goes to the diocese to try to escalate what's happening and let them know that this is real. And when he goes to this meeting or he tries to make a meeting with a higher level priest, bad shit starts to happen.
00:52:57
Speaker
um The room gets... funky, the doors close, um he sees an entity- cross doorknob that's turned upside down, as if the door's turning, the doorknob's turning to open the door, but it also represents the cross being upside down.
00:53:10
Speaker
And he, do we see the shape that he is battling or no? Not really. Yeah, I think it's presence, which I like. I don't yeah i always like to see the Well, yeah, because I think some of the low points of this movie are the stupid CG faces that we do see. So we'll get into that. But none of that here in this scene.
00:53:27
Speaker
um The cross he holds up starts burning. Yes. And old guy, i have to give him credit. He held on a lot longer than I would have. You see his hands burning while the cross is on fire. Blistering, burning. He drops it. um Notably, and I didn't understand why when he was talking to the receptionist before all this crazy shit happened,
00:53:43
Speaker
he kept noticing the ah vacuum plug get taught. The cord, yeah. The cord get really taught for some reason. And well, there's a, there there's what we want call Significance to that. there's a payoff because ah after he encounters this entity and he, I guess he's just overwhelmed with its evil and its might. Yeah.
00:54:02
Speaker
He walks out of that room. He takes that cord. He jumps off the balcony, hangs himself. That's it for Father Gordon. um It's a powerful scene. we lose him. somewhat significant character it's probably the low point of the film where my highlight was the high the high points i think this was the low point of the film and really well done like you said in fact think back over the franchise like not showing the presence itself but just showing how people interact with it where it's more vague and atmospheric i i it's up there with one of my favorite sequences or set pieces in the conjuring franchise thus far.
00:54:35
Speaker
It was very much, uh, what's, what's Joffrey's little brother's name. You remember Tom and just like Tom and just takes a leap off the,
Character Dynamics and Narrative Focus
00:54:43
Speaker
Oh yes. so Stands in the window silhouetted and just falls forward. That's the vibe. That's the energy I got. yeah out ofor and He's like, this is too much. I'm just gonna, cause he's so calmly walks out.
00:54:53
Speaker
Uh, but that's the end of father Gordon, but it's a scene. don't It's a scene. I really liked this. I also liked because the first three films, it's typically the Warrens reaching out to the church because they meet with the family first and they reach out to the church for help.
00:55:07
Speaker
This is the one instance where father Gordon encountered the family before the Warrens did. And now he's reached out to them for help. So it's shown to come really full circle with now, instead of the church being behind the eight ball, he's trying to get the Warrens back involved. Again, they have retired and he's like, there are still people who need help. He's going after them now. Yeah, exactly. He's a believer now and he is trying to get them to come to the aid of this family.
00:55:29
Speaker
All right. Ben Gardner, are we having more highlights? Yeah. No, that was it for me. Let's do our best jump scare. i You go, because I feel like it's the same one. Okay. So there's a scene, again, this is about the midpoint of the movie, focusing on the Smurls, where Jack Smurl, the dad, played by Elliot Cohen, he sees his bedroom door open in the middle of the night. So that wakes him up.
00:55:51
Speaker
And when he reaches for his glasses on the nightstand, he knocks them to the floor. He bends down to pick up his glasses so that he can see more clearly. And when he lifts his head back up, The demonic woman is right at the foot of the bed. Her face is right there. And I should have seen it coming. you know yeah This is very clear that a scare is in the works and it still scared the shit out of me.
00:56:13
Speaker
Part of it is credit due to seeing this in a theater versus at home where I just rewatched the first three films. But by witnessing this in a theater and the loud audio and the giant screen, like I jumped.
00:56:24
Speaker
I was shook. Yeah, that's easily the scariest part of the movie. yeah Well, I knew it was going to be yours because you're a night terror guy. yeah And that brother was seriously dealing with some sleep paralysis slash night terrors.
00:56:36
Speaker
It's also a reminder, we had our first daughter in 2020. I have horrible vision or had horrible vision, like my contact contact prescription was like negative seven and a half in my left eye, negative six and a half in my right.
00:56:49
Speaker
So I got LASIK right before our first daughter was born in 2020. Cause I was terrified that if something happened in the middle of the night and I had to reach to my nightstand for my glasses, i was just an absolute liability. I couldn't see anything. I couldn't distinguish my wife from maybe an intruder or because everything was just shapes or a mannequin. That's a great point.
00:57:08
Speaker
And so a very relatable that he can't actually deal with what's opening the door until he is able to locate his glasses. Yeah, that guy had a tough go in this whole movie. yeah i'm I'm not even going to give my... That's that's the only one I wrote down.
00:57:19
Speaker
yeah But what did I grab you at? where When did I grab you? I'm trying to remember. It wasn't that scary of a moment in the film, which is why I was extra surprised. You made me jump there as well. as I wasn't expecting you. All right. Cantaloupe or Cantaloupe, which I'm not going to give any context of to. No, you shouldn't. Listen to past episodes. Maybe a few every few episodes we will. But if you want to know Cantaloupe Orb means, go back and listen to some. um I thought...
00:57:42
Speaker
it was the blood vomit scene. yeah That was the most cringe-inducing. was like, it goes for a long... Yeah, explain. Dawn Smirle, played by Bo Gadsden, which you you had mentioned her performance earlier and you really liked her, one of the daughters of the Smirle family.
00:57:59
Speaker
But they are just first experiencing the paranormal effects in the household. They have just destroyed the mirror, um her and her sister. They think they are rid of it.
00:58:11
Speaker
And at the family breakfast, right after the trash has come to pick it up, she begins to get sick and then she begins to vomit. And then she begins projectile vomiting blood all over the kitchen table.
00:58:23
Speaker
runs over to the sink where she continues to vomit a copious amount of blood. And then she is able to pick glass out of her mouth, shards of glass, presumably like from the mirror, but if somehow found their way into her mouth.
00:58:34
Speaker
So it's tough walk. then she looks in the sink and there's a bunch of shards. Yes, there's a lot of glass. ah And again, maybe I picked this because it's close to home. Shout out to the Denver Tuberculosis Center, which I visited yesterday because in one of my mucus hawk-ups during this whole medical situation I'm dealing with, little blood. little blood yeah yeah And my family doctor was like,
00:58:53
Speaker
Rick, we know that you've traveled to Mexico a few times this past year and maybe tuberculosis is something you should look into. And that freaked me the fuck out. So whatever I was doing, I just dropped it. I was supposed to be resting. yeah I went straight to the TB center at Denver health, great establishment. Shout out to Josiah. The nurse came out free of charge.
00:59:12
Speaker
pretty much debunked any sort of tuberculosis in me whatsoever. He's like, wait, so you're not having night sweats? No. You're not losing weight ah rapidly? um Opposite of no. i Have you been sick for more than a week? No.
00:59:26
Speaker
Were you ever in Mexico for more than six months? No. So then we just had a friendly conversation about tuberculosis and how to prevent it and why vaccines aren't that great with it. ah Great public facing establishment, by the way, Travis. Yeah, for help.
00:59:38
Speaker
But seeing young Gadsden vomit all that blood, I was like, okay, that's tuberculosis. Yeah. Or a demon putting mirror shards in your mouth. That's the one with the two. Only two options. Turns it was the demon in this case. but Right.
00:59:50
Speaker
I had one other very cringey scene. um And I could tell you were cringy as well at the very end of the film when they're essentially battling the mirror, their reflections in the mirror. Oh yeah. The mirror starts to creep forward at the Warrens now joined by their daughter, Judy, but also Tony and Tony is knocked to the ground and the mirror slowly scrapes up his leg. i didn't understand. Tearing the skin off of his leg as it slides up.
01:00:12
Speaker
Yeah. I guess it's heavy and wooden and, you know, press that close to the leg. It could, you know, it's very gross. I didn't really get the physics of what was happening there. Yeah, it it was not super well lit intentionally because it's a horror movie, but I couldn't quite tell either. Because moving past like a banister where you think it would get caught up in every other post, but it was just kind of slowly sliding along. Given that Tony Spera is the head of the estate of the Warrens, yeah do we think he was just like, hey, I really need to have like this sacrificial... You wanted him to have ah little skin the little skin in the game?
01:00:46
Speaker
I don't know, man. I mean, he's he's in peril. Maybe he wanted to show that like he's a tough guy. feels like a little insert. It feels like a Sparrow insert to me. Okay, yeah, maybe. I mean, was hard to watch. It was cringy, which I typically like in horror. I like to feel uncomfortable in horror movies, and it accomplishes its objective there. Glad you're okay, Tony.
01:01:05
Speaker
um So I really – I know we've debated what counts as a death or not, I guess you kind of see flashback demon recapturing a death sequence. I didn't really give that much credit. So I didn't have a cannon fodder. I don't know if you want to talk about that, ah well but I definitely have a best death.
01:01:21
Speaker
Well, there's only, to me, there's only two deaths and they're both hangings. Oh, that's a great point. I completely missed a death. That has to be the cannon fodder at the very top of the film. That's the dad. Yes. So cannon fodder, because we just, we need to know how dangerous the mirror is. yeah So let's use this dad who I guess had the mirror in his house and then,
01:01:40
Speaker
best death i already waxed poetic about this for a long time but is father gordon yeah hanging himself from that same vacuum cord we saw it was yeah but it's a shot from the like ground floor in a spiral staircase essentially where you just see his body coming down so essentially coming closer to the camera yeah real quick you hear the cord to go tight and uh yeah effective rip father gordon um did you have a shama lion Yeah, word my only Shyamalan twist. That's Shyamalan.
01:02:10
Speaker
My only Shyamalan twist is we are still a bit confused. I know we were debating this after the film, but this greater entity that is tied all the way back to the very first case that they ran from and we see manifested through the mirror.
01:02:23
Speaker
At one point, Judy Warren experiences Annabelle in the Smurl home. So across the country, hundreds of miles away from where Annabelle is held up in her glass case. at the Warren household. And I thought that was a decent twist that Annabelle suddenly showed up.
01:02:36
Speaker
Again, I don't know if the, if it's a different entity that is just playing on Judy's fears. And so wanted to bring Annabelle there. or if Annabelle herself was kind of the Thanos of the of Conjuring universe and they want to show her as master villain. she has enough power rings just yet because her presence was a little confusing. i I'll get in this more on dull knives, but I have some Annabelle questions.
01:02:57
Speaker
but Yeah. So somewhat of a twist that you see Annabelle show up as well. Another good callback as well. Talking about all the callbacks to the prior installment. i I guess I thought that Judy was turning into Annabelle or like she was possessed by the Annabelle entity.
01:03:11
Speaker
But I could be off on that. um I'm not certain. All right. Don't go in there. I had one particular, which was basically ah Judy going into the attic.
01:03:26
Speaker
She hears noises. Bad things are happening. She still goes up in the attic. And she's not as prepared as her father and mother are when it comes to this sort of thing. ah Do you remember what precedes that? Because um I just wrote down attic. and No, but I remember what follows it, which is the same scene and is my don't go in there.
01:03:44
Speaker
Don't touch the mirror. Judy has to reach. She's drawn to it, reaches out, touches the crack. Like literally three minutes later, Lorraine's up there. She's touching the mirror. Like clearly, and Lorraine's familiar with the mirror. She's dealt with it before. And this is what started everything years ago. I don't know why she feels the need that she has to touch it again. So that is my poor character decision.
01:04:02
Speaker
of the film talking to me where they find the mirror again up in the attic talking to me don't touch it don't touch it don't touch the mirror all right don't look at my best lines okay you said i could go first on this yes what is your best line i wish i could have lasagna yep that is that is mine as well that is mine as well um yeah patrick wilson's delivery early in the film they're at dinner He has brought up that he is still recovering from his heart attack. His doctor has him under strict orders to eat healthier, live healthier.
01:04:30
Speaker
And when they're all placing their orders, it's funny too, it gets coming on the heels of like Judy and her mom, Lorraine have just had a weird paranormal experience since something that's unwell, but only they are attuned to it.
01:04:42
Speaker
So Patrick Wilson, who's just focused on the menu and what he's ordering after hears that's what they're having just has to kind of ramble that off. Having been in the editing room of a few films,
01:04:53
Speaker
I have to think that the editors were just laughing because what makes the line stick out, Travis, is it's the last line uttered before we cut to the next scene. yeah So it lingers with you. It's like, this is what is finishing this scene is that he's just pining for lasagna. And you know what, Patrick?
01:05:09
Speaker
I agree. I wish I could have lasagna all the time. yeah I right now, Travis, you made me an excellent quesadilla with thank you fresh avocado peeled on there. yeah But the moment I see lasagna written down, i still want lasagna. i do love lasagna. It's a,
01:05:23
Speaker
Garfield was onto to something, you know? So good. All right. Dull knives. What's going on with the chicken? Yeah. We were at, this is Ed's party, think. Ed Warren's birthday party. It's the first daughter or shot of the party. The first thing we see is a chicken. So we see it's like kitchen or living room where all the guests are assembled, but in the middle of the mall, there's just a chicken walking around but inside on the floor.
01:05:43
Speaker
But we don't even see it again. No contacts, yeah. In the first films, if you remember, I think they live somewhat a ranch lifestyle. Like I think they had livestock. from the very first film when you see them at home.
01:05:55
Speaker
But it's been so long since we've seen that. It was very random to just have a chicken in the middle of the party. I know people who have chickens and i i don't ever see them let the chickens run wild in the home. Usually they're in the chicken. Is there a... It wasn't a rooster, right? Because there was. We could say... ah That's a good point. I didn't see it long enough. hanging cock reference here, but I think...
01:06:15
Speaker
I couldn't tell. I tell. Well, also a chicken is going to produce either meat or eggs or, which I don't think Ed should be having eggs.
01:06:26
Speaker
Or provides companionship at a birthday party. I get, you mean like a, uh, emotional support? Exactly. all right. Well, that's one of my dull knives. Um, so I had near the end of the film,
01:06:40
Speaker
They decide, they as in Ed Warren and Jack Smurl, decide to carry the mirror out of the attic and downstairs. And so Tony, who is helping them, they tell to go get the car and pull the car around so they can get rid of the mirror.
01:06:54
Speaker
Tony gets into the car outside. It's starting to storm. He's trying to get the car started. It won't start. It won't start. It won't start. Finally, the engine revs. They still aren't even out of the attic, so he has plenty of time.
01:07:05
Speaker
And for some reason, he decides to go like speed racer, slams that thing into drive. There's a drifting U-turn, like, you know, burning
Horror Tropes and Paranormal Elements
01:07:15
Speaker
rubber on the street. There's 180 degree turns. turn and then he's driving at over like 30 miles an hour like back at the house even though he's only like 100 yards away so it's no wonder if he crashes i'm like what the hell is going on he's the prince of the rust belt man you're in a steel mill town he's driving a car when they still make cars out of metal you know he's probably stoked for the pittsburgh steelers and he's just feeling himself probably not the best use of his time yeah he was finally designated some responsibility which is which is what he wanted he wanted to help and he just went like 110 percent there went hard in the paint
01:07:47
Speaker
I think that's maybe validate some of Ed's hesitations with Tony Spera. um All right. Another one I had, this is kind of a double cause the same thing happened. So little girl, one of the the younger twins of the Smirno family sees this doll, the Susie doll, the Susie doll, the doll creepily like stands up on its own and levitates.
01:08:08
Speaker
She a demon behind it. And then there's, i and you know, I said this you in the movie, I wish the doll had just spoken a weird yeah guttural noise. The, these, c we haven't don't always need to see the demon. There's like three or four CG demon faces that are usually smiling like an old lady. And I just didn't do it for me.
01:08:24
Speaker
I mean, the scariest moment of the film, that big jump scare, you do see her smiling face, but I don't need to keep seeing it the rest of the film. I'm with you. My dull knife isn't CG, though, here. It's that the literal never mentions it.
01:08:34
Speaker
She's not like, hey, this demon was holding my baby, Susie, which is directly related to Judy, who sees Annabelle several times, yeah doesn't say it to Ed and Lorraine once.
01:08:45
Speaker
i don't know if she's embarrassed. Just part of their world. On the Susie doll, this was actually my other dull knife, though. I would have thought they would have gotten rid of the doll at that point. But maybe because she didn't tell anyone, you see Susie resurface later and scare Judy near at the end of the film. So clearly the daughter wasn't too scared that her Susie doll was levitating and she saw a demon behind it because she's just playing with it.
01:09:05
Speaker
Was she supposed to be like a Chatty Cathy doll? Was there a brand of dolls in the 80s called Susie? Susie someone? I don't know. Speaking Susie. yeah this Is this a mannequin thing? i don't understand. No. You know Chatty Cathy though, i assume.
01:09:16
Speaker
I know the term. I don't know where it comes from. Popular doll. Back in the and 90s. don't know my doll's trap. Sorry. Girl dad talk here. ah Those, yeah. so that was basically not saying anything. um you You might have quelled this other one, but I i like didn't get why they were using flashlights in the hospital and the why the lights were off.
01:09:33
Speaker
That seems like a huge deal. I'm glad you brought this up. I'm glad you brought this up. they try to make her birthing her daughter a paranormal event. The lights somehow like flicker off.
01:09:46
Speaker
Lorraine, while she's pushing, sees like hands coming down from the ceiling. And honestly, it was scary enough without those elements. Giving birth is scary to make sure it's successful. It's scary secondhand. Having seen my wife do it a few times, I can't help but know even with great medical care around us that There is great risk involved. And then to see the stillborn, I just felt the scene was plenty scary. They didn't have to go blackout lights with flashlights. They didn't have to have a demon crawling around on the ceiling.
01:10:17
Speaker
I think just the delivery itself could have been plenty of scary and delivered the message home. Did you think at any point that this baby was going to die because it was it was not Judy? Yeah, i I thought likely Judy, likely going to survive.
01:10:31
Speaker
But to your point, i I wasn't fully committed to that. I wasn't 100% convinced. guy was like, oh, they could have ridden it. Maybe they had another baby and and truly had a stillborn um who who passed away. And so it was good at keeping me guessing until you hear the baby breathe. And right when you hear the baby breathe and start crying, you know, oh, that's how they had Judy.
01:10:49
Speaker
Do you know when I knew the baby was going to survive? How or when? The moment Lorraine started praying. Oh, yeah. yeah Ain't no way the country universe. Yes. Ain't no way they're gonna they're going to suppress the power of Christ. Prayer doesn't go unanswered, except for Father Gordon's prayer when he literally got burned and then hung himself. True.
01:11:05
Speaker
His prayers don't hold the same weight as the Warren's prayers. This is the angelic Lorraine Warren who can do no wrong. Yes, yes. Direct call to God, save my baby. She's calling in a favor. Calling in a favor, which I think if all this shit really happened in that universe, probably owes her one.
Winners, Losers, and Cultural References
01:11:20
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Winners and losers. I have a few. Yeah, me too. Start us off with winner. i'll I'll start small, but I just, dude, the swap meets.
01:11:32
Speaker
When's the last time you heard of a swap meet? My mom was big on swap meets. This was the 80s. This is a period piece. I think this fits perfectly that they they went to the there and they were able buy something, trade for something. the Grandma found the mirror to swap meet.
01:11:44
Speaker
ah I used to love going to these things. My mom would always let us know when there's a swap meet going around. And it's just because you you knew what you're going to get at Toys R Us. You knew you were going to find at Walmart. You you were going to find a target.
01:11:57
Speaker
You knew you were going find at Fundazzle. But swap meets, anything. That, flea markets and garage sales. Exactly. lot of those in my childhood. The holy trinity of random shit. Yeah. It felt so rewarding as a kid. Like I would start selling my own stuff at garage sales and like that $2.50 I would make just felt like a huge win.
01:12:15
Speaker
If there was a fourth... I know that's the Holy Trinity of like random shit. Yeah. Army Navy stores are pretty cool too. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Going to Goodwill, buying stuff there. I've done that before. You can sometimes find some, but I'm not talking about Salvation Army, Army Navy. Okay.
01:12:30
Speaker
Where like military people will sell their old tactical gear and stuff. Oh, okay. I think it's generally Salvation Army. No, I've not. My teenage years, I would like go try to find old knives and like, Oh, I'd be looking for like board games or Scotty Cameron putters.
01:12:44
Speaker
So a little different. Scotty Cameron. What is that? Oh, man, you don't want to say that our golf audience. That's like the Holy Grail of putters. Sometimes you find people selling them secondhand at like Salvation Army. I thought you butter. Like you're looking up for a type of churned butter. Golf putters.
01:12:58
Speaker
Golf's cool. don't know much Yeah, one of my winners, we've we've talked about a few times, but just a lot of callbacks here. um I thought they're all great, including the only one I don't think we've mentioned. So we've mentioned a lot of the cast. We've mentioned Annabelle.
01:13:09
Speaker
We got from probably one of my highlights, few highlights from the Conjuring the Devil Made Me Do It, the death touch to Ed Warren's chest again. Oh, yeah. Judy performs it this time while she's possessed where she is able to stop his heart just like little David Glatzel did in the third film.
01:13:26
Speaker
Yeah. And so that was a good callback as well. Yeah. Guy's got a tough – his ticker has seen a lot of action. Yeah. You have other winners? I do. I had the Rust Belt. Yeah?
01:13:37
Speaker
You know? um even though, and we'll talk about the Steelers in a bit. Yeah. That's in my losers. Steelers weren't great in the 80s, but I did like the the steel mill you could see in the distance. Were the Steelers not great in the 80s? They were not.
01:13:51
Speaker
Okay. The 70s, the Iron Curtain was now subsiding. That's the 70s. Terry Brodstra was done. Okay. We'll talk we'll talk about it. There's some things to say about Steelers. um But I just like how they couched, not couched, how they portrayed. The setting was in Pennsylvania, and you're saying they do it justice. I think they do justice.
01:14:08
Speaker
working class suburban area. And that's big steel mill in the distance. It just like, it really places you there. Yeah. um I loved seeing, even though it distracted Tony spare a little bit, I love seeing his old, you know, steel built car. Yeah. His old, what what would you call that? And a, not a hot rod, but like a muscle car. Yeah.
01:14:30
Speaker
See an old muscle car. So when for the rust belt, even though financially now we know where that all went, uh, Things aren't great now. Our cars are made of plastic, but any other the winners for you? Yeah. My only other one was asking the parents for their blessing right before you proposed to their daughter. This one is immediately before he proposes. This podcast is a blueprint for any any men out there who eventually date Wesley, Gemma, or Margo. Exactly. You should listen to this to listen to our episodes first. He is showing his hand here. out How to win me over.
01:15:02
Speaker
play me at ping pong, beat me, and then date for more than six months and ask me. Ask me for my blessing and watch horror movies with me. But don't you dare surprise me with any gifts of mannequins in my house.
01:15:14
Speaker
And don't be in between jobs. Yes. Yes, of course. All right. Any more for you? No, that was it for winners. Okay. Losers. And it it gives me so much pleasure saying this as a Cowboys fan.
01:15:28
Speaker
The Philadelphia Eagles. Big loser here. You want to know Trav? Yeah. Tell me. West Pittston is only 2.5 hour drive from Philadelphia. Okay. Okay.
01:15:38
Speaker
Pittsburgh is a whopping 4.5 hours. Okay. Despite that, Heather or Dawn, I forget which one, is rocking a Steelers jersey. ah Okay. So Eagles just getting swept under the rug.
01:15:50
Speaker
Sorry, Eagles. Now, as I'm saying this, it's it's the next day after the Cowboys just lost a tough battle. ah yes so I thought we looked great. I want to say. Again, this will come out Sunday, but we're recording this Friday, right after the opening NFL game of the season, where the Eagles vanquished the Cowboys.
01:16:06
Speaker
They vanquished them, but this is defending Super Bowl champions. I thought Dak looked great. seed CD dropped some big, catch. Do the Cowboys win that game if they have Micah Parsons? No, we win that game of seat if CD doesn't drop the fucking balls. yeah And we shouldn't be giving Miles Sanders the rock either.
01:16:20
Speaker
But i'm I'm feeling better about the – I thought we would get walloped basically. But um Travis, you know when we got to your house today do this podcast, at the last minute you're like, oh I have a work call jump on to. Yes.
01:16:31
Speaker
You hopped in that work call while I was doing my research for this pod. And in your little ah work... You're overhearing my call. Yes. and this But you you did a little small talk, cutesy stuff, you know small banter with your work colleagues.
01:16:43
Speaker
I think your banter is better on here, by the way. You said one of your daughters has a Philadelphia Eagles jersey. What's going on? Yes, you're breaching client confidentiality. But my client in this case I'd offer a call with was my sister and her fiance, who is from Philly.
01:16:57
Speaker
Huge Eagles fan. And I am upset about it. He has converted oldest daughter. i think they do occasionally. Yeah. He has converted my oldest daughter to an Eagles fan. So my younger girls, I've only brought them up with all Packers gear, but he has won her over. And it hurts because they just won the Super Bowl and she's old enough to realize she wants to be associated with winners.
01:17:17
Speaker
So she reminds me constantly that the Eagles are winners and the Packers are not. So I'm really hoping for better in 2025 for Pack. i'm Notice how i didn't you baited me with the Micah Parsons thing yeah as as a Packers fan. yeah I didn't take it.
01:17:32
Speaker
But I will say, I'm glad we're united on not liking the Eagles. Yes. That's one thing we can agree on. We are you united there. Because playoffs, let's just put this, Packers smoke us in the playoffs every year. Yes. The fact that you have Micah now kills me even more.
01:17:44
Speaker
it's It's just formulaic at this point where the Packers will always beat the Cowboys, but then lose to the 49ers. I feel like yeah that's been the playoff scenario for three of the past 10 years. I just, I want to go back to it.
01:17:55
Speaker
ah just Just give me something besides a wild card or of a divisional game. I want to go back to the NFC championship just once. Just once. Um, so despite that, Trav, i'm going to continue on some football talk here.
01:18:06
Speaker
Okay. Um, so Trav Steelers are also a loser in this case. Winner and a loser. Winner and a loser. Winner because they were the chosen team, despite being further away. Loser because they weren't doing too hot in eighties.
01:18:18
Speaker
And the Jersey that the young Smurl girls wear is 16. Now there wasn't a last name on the back of the Jersey. I am to infer that this Jersey belonged to one Mark Malone. Martin Malone was the supposed to be the bright light after Terry Bradshaw. Okay. So he was their quarterback.
01:18:34
Speaker
Yes. Four-time Super Bowl champion. Despite you know great defense. So people talk about that more than Terry Bradshaw. But still, Bradshaw was an amazing amazing quarterback. ah Maybe even better sportscaster. Who knows?
01:18:46
Speaker
But ah this is Martin Malone's stats in 1986. You ready for this? Yep. Completion percentage, 46%. Last in the league. Yards, 2,444. 19th in the league. 13 tied for 20th. 19 interceptions, for 4th most. his passer rating was 50%.
01:19:00
Speaker
thirteen tds tied for twentieth nineteen interceptions tied for fourthmost and his passer rating was fifty which is good for last in the league. Steelers went on to 6-10 and into obscurity until they were revived again in the, what, I guess the... Mike Tomlin era. Well, actually before Tomlin, Bill Cowher era. Yes, exactly.
01:19:23
Speaker
so Bill Cowher took over, I believe, right after Chuck Knoll. There might have been somebody in between. But a tough look for 16 on the Steelers. Yeah, okay, okay. Would you agree?
01:19:34
Speaker
Yeah, I mean... Maybe this family didn't have a lot of means. They can't buy the honest selling jersey. except This might have been right after the the Steelers have released him. They're like, hey, we can finally get our girls.
01:19:46
Speaker
We can finally get them a Steelers jersey here. So that that might be the story behind that. That's tough. That would be super deep research by the set design team for for the film. but let's I don't like that because then that means the Philly jerseys were maybe more expensive.
01:20:00
Speaker
So I don't like that type thing. All right. I have a smorgasbord of losers for scary objects in this film, but also the franchise. So instead of doing them individually, I'm just going to put them all together here.
01:20:13
Speaker
Again, shout out to our unfinished basements, even unfinished attic spaces here. Finish a basement, baby. We're in a basement right now recording. Not that scary when you have can lighting, drywall, you know, it's framed out, carpet. Ed even gives gives the Mr. Smurl some shit. He's like, is there a thing?
01:20:30
Speaker
What does he say about the insulation? He's like, is there just insulation beneath us? Yeah, well, that's that's common, at least for attics. If it's not finished, that ah between the studs, you you don't want to step on the drywall or you're falling through the ceiling. But you're saying finish the attic. that's Yeah, you can finish it, especially finish the basement.
01:20:43
Speaker
That should be the more we're hanging fruit. Again, hey, another shout out to flooded basements as well, going back to The Conjuring 2. Oh, yeah, flooded with blood. we We get it flooded with blood real quickly while the rain's down there.
01:20:54
Speaker
Other haunted objects. Now, these are more specific to this film or horror in general, but plumbing and garbage disposals. We have a scary scene with that. I feel like these are pretty constant trope in horror movies where something nasty is coming out of the garbage disposal or you're putting a hand in there, maybe losing a finger or two. And so we get a bit of that.
01:21:14
Speaker
Lorraine saves her fingers, does get a lot of blood out of at garbage disposal. Well, then it disappears. and Yeah. A lot of that in this movie. It was all in our head. But a lot of that, and I guess I would have put this in a dull knife, but like lot of scary moments that end up being just inside their head.
01:21:28
Speaker
But guess what? For the Warrens in real life, a lot of that is just inside their heads. so they're I'll take it. Their whole career is inside their head. Except for that 14-year-old girl that was real. Yeah. And then the only other one is some scary landline phones here.
01:21:43
Speaker
um so that that was also fun to watch again r.i.p landline phones i had one growing up i'm sure you did as well but uh they're able to tie that in nicely for the decade make it a good period piece um i'll cross off core uh non cordless phones because i had that as well yeah but uh you know what's funny trav this this is one of those rare moments where i had this listed as a winner And as the scene progressed, I moved it to loser.
01:22:08
Speaker
It was the ratchet straps on the mirror. So I'm a huge advocate for ratchet straps. i have i'm a truck I'm a proud truck owner. ye I use it to strap things down to my truck. Good, as you should. i get upset with truck drivers yeah who don't take the necessary precautions. Well, there's a way to do it. on the interner There's a way to do it in terms of ah lateral, over the top, ah if you're going to keep the bed open or not, what you do.
01:22:30
Speaker
um but where you keep pressure. I also use them a lot on film sets. when If I'm on a if i' doing less office or producerial stuff and I need to help with you know the grips and like help them strap things down if we're shorthanded, love bringing out ratchet straps. yeah Really reliable.
01:22:45
Speaker
So when I saw them strap this demonized mirror with the ratchet straps, I was like, hell yeah, winner for my straps. Complete liabilities. yeah Just completely come undone, loosened.
01:22:57
Speaker
i mean, dude They didn't even put up a fight. How much of that was the demon versus Ed Warren just doing a poor job? I mean, he gave it at least three cranks, no? Yeah, so you think it was the demon really able to undo his work?
01:23:11
Speaker
I think it was the poor willpower of these ratchet straps. played with the ratchet straps themselves. I am, because like I kind of wanted to see more out of them. yeah I mean, I've seen my own ones go through intense weather, ah you know ah items that are really just tough to manage. There's things poking out.
01:23:30
Speaker
I've done it with a bunch of branches and leaves, and even then, no breakage what happened here it was tough to see i was my mat my ratchet comes uncovered again just don't look at it don't look at it yeah poor poor mr poor mr smurl yeah um only have one other loser and it's uh we've seen this a few times in the post script for all these films they saved the family that was haunted and there's always a little text call at the end again we saw this one where it's like By the way, the small family remained in the home for three years after. What a choice.
01:24:04
Speaker
think the Hodgson's like piggy Hodgson lived in that house for the rest of her life. They're like, Oh my God, this house is haunted. There's demons. yeah But it's a lot to move. So I'm just going to stay. or or Trav, they all knew that none of this shit was real. So why, yeah why, why take your newfound fame and spend extra money to move out of something that's not actually, um move out of something that's not actually haunted?
01:24:24
Speaker
I think it does not help their case. It does not add validity to their claims when they're like, yeah, I'm okay. Stay in here though. Didn't the parents also, I think they stayed in the home for a while. But they were financially dug in on that thing too.
01:24:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, a lot of these families were lower means. That's why they're Steelers fans versus Eagles. Jesus Christ. We're keeping that in. Steelers are the Rust Belt State. They're the working man's team.
01:24:48
Speaker
Joe Plummer's team? Yeah. Joe the Plummer. um Shit. You reminded me of something. What did you just say? You said, oh, oh. This isn't a winner or a loser, more of just an observation because you mentioned the post-text.
01:25:02
Speaker
Did you like that little CYA? ah Yeah, despite their controversial careers and lives. Yes, and lives was a very key qualifier. That was doing a lot of work. yeah And lives was there. I'm glad they put it in there.
01:25:18
Speaker
I guess it's the least they can do. yeah. All right. My, I'm going to go first because I think you're more confident in your scream. For scream king, scream queen. All right. Yeah. I'm going to go first because, um, I mean, I like mine, but you seem more confident yours.
01:25:33
Speaker
Father Gordon. Yeah. Just the character itself. I always like seeing him crop up. Has a great death here. Um,
Conclusion and Upcoming Content
01:25:40
Speaker
Just like the actor, it's more about the character, though.
01:25:44
Speaker
You know, with these scream queen, scream queen, scream king things, sometimes we reward ah concept. Sometimes it's an actor. Sometimes it's director director. Sometimes it's a character, though. Sometimes it's Bashara, the composer. Right.
01:25:56
Speaker
In this case, it's the actual character. I think it's just like a solid character, and he meets his demise, and I like them So I like it, but i going to raise the stakes because I also went with a character or characters. But again, i feel like we've really skimmed over, not getting given enough credit to Patrick Wilson Vera Farmiga.
01:26:12
Speaker
And so I'm taking Juan and Chavez at their word. I think these two at least are done with the franchise. And they went 100% all four games. We didn't give them one yet. We haven't given them one yet. And so I really want to give credit to them because again, without the two of them,
01:26:27
Speaker
I don't think I would enjoy these films nearly as much. I don't think the films would have done nearly as well. And so I want to give a shout to Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga for really carrying this one. That's great. I think so if if Conjuring one was the lead actress, right? No, we went with Beshara.
01:26:43
Speaker
Conjuring one was Beshara, composer and demon. Yeah. Conjuring two was one. Yeah. Conjuring three was Alan Bono. or whatever his name is.
01:26:57
Speaker
And then number four, yeah, Patrick Wilson. I like that. Yeah. I think it brings the franchise to a nice closure. And with that, it's just to bring this episode in our franchise series to closure.
01:27:07
Speaker
As fun as I've had, i am good not paying any more ER bills. Yeah. So look, I know i've I've said a lot about how much bullshit the Warrens have been swimming in.
01:27:19
Speaker
there is There is actually something weird that I went to the ER yeah three times or two separate incidents over the course of this franchise. i mean Well, I got bad news for you, Rick, because next week we are going back and leaving our franchise series to cover the new release, The Long Walk, which unfortunately is the one thing I don't think you can do right now. told me you can't walk for over 15 minutes at a time right now, so this one might be tough for you. Part of my words to hope part of my recovery...
01:27:49
Speaker
is like literally like not walking very far because I get winded. and I told Travis this morning, hey man, I can't go to this coffee shop before the movie theater because it's a 15 minute walk. And you, you correct me. Like actually it's five minutes, dude.
01:28:01
Speaker
Shit. You're right. I can't do, i can't do the market, the publicity stunt that these people are doing with the treadmills be close to home. Yeah. They have people watching the film while walking the entire time at three miles per hour pace. But that is where we will be next week until then.
01:28:16
Speaker
Like, subscribe to the podcast. Give us a five-star review if you haven't already. Follow us on Instagram at thesundayscaries.pod. Also our Twitter handle, which as soon as I get a Twitter, I'll memorize. But Rick, for those looking for us, it is... The Sun Scaries.
01:28:29
Speaker
The Sun Scaries. Yes, that is right. Because we got character kept. um Travis, thank you for inviting me to your home. Yeah, this was fun. It is a nice home. Shout out to Anna who made a care package of a hamburger and good sides to send me at the ER, by the way. Yes. And shout out to you for carrying my bags.
01:28:46
Speaker
Shout out to Sam for driving to the ER. Yes. Good friends. We've loved having you in Denver, Rick. Glad we were able to do this in person. Thank you guys for listening. We'll see you next week for the long.
01:29:08
Speaker
Oh, shit.
01:29:11
Speaker
<unk> just it