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Black Phone 2 (2025)
88 Plays11 days ago
The boys answer the call to Scott Derrickson's follow-up to his 2022 surprise hit in this year's BLACK PHONE 2 as they cover 80's tropes, 8mm film, and the power of the ole "I'll pray for you!!!"
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Transcript
A Bad Dream and Urgency
00:00:05
Speaker
I had a bad dream.
00:00:09
Speaker
It was about missing kids. It was just a dream. About a real place. youth camp. We have to go there.
00:00:28
Speaker
city
00:00:42
Speaker
All right, we're back.
Reunion and Movie Talk
00:00:44
Speaker
And I'm back. Travis, you're here. last week off as you guys covered Trick or Treat. You abandoned us. yeah I abandoned my child.
00:00:54
Speaker
i have abandoned my boy. Moderation is the key to life. God, what movie is that from? I'm blanking right now. I abandoned my boy. That's not from a specific movie. Oh, that movie? Yeah. Oh, that is. That's that's There Will Be Blood.
00:01:07
Speaker
Okay. Yes. I thought you meant moderation. thought you said moderation is the key to life. I'm like, that's probably something. Ten hundred Nora Ephron or other movies. All things in moderation. it was nice to have a week off. And you guys killed it. So it was fun listening to that.
00:01:23
Speaker
Yeah. Without being active in...
Exploring Horror Movies and Scare Science
00:01:26
Speaker
hosting it. But yeah, we're back. We're back on the new release train, kind of cut it into the middle of our Halloween related movies.
00:01:34
Speaker
Um, so that'll be fun talking about black phone too later. But before we get into that, you want to talk about movie news or if you have any cool personal Ricky, uh, anecdotes from up in Montana, those are always welcome as well.
00:01:47
Speaker
I don't have any stories cause Kurt has been gone for like two weeks. So I've just, I folded into the real crew and now slumming it up with the, with the rest of the production. I don't have these nice perks of just hanging out with Kurt. So, uh, I've gotten broken in, but, um,
00:02:03
Speaker
It's been good. It's been good. All right. it I'll take it. Scary movie stuff. Oh, yes. I mean, new releases. Frankenstein is starting to make its way into theaters, and we're going to try to cover that, hopefully, before the wide release on on Netflix.
00:02:20
Speaker
But... We cannot promise that yet. It definitely will not play in Montana. So if if that does, it's going to open in Denver. So I think you should you should find a guest host, Trav, whatever dreg from the street you you throw on on the chair there.
00:02:37
Speaker
Box office overall for the year. We've talked about it several times for horror films. Can't say the same for normal movies. um One battle after another is going to lose about $100 million.
00:02:49
Speaker
You're going to bring up... This is our third episode talking about one battle after another. Okay. You're going to bring up Monsters, Inc. at some point again. So um I have a point here. I'm just saying Tron Aries flopping.
00:03:04
Speaker
Big, beautiful, big, bold journey flop. It's just like horror is keeping the box office alive this year. And Minecraft. Horror plus Minecraft.
00:03:15
Speaker
Minecraft didn't even hit a billy, and they're probably so mad about it. Okay. Yeah, you got Lilo and Stitch. live va Kids movies. i think it's. kids movie a kids movie recently in theaters oh man um i don't want to ever be too negative about movies can we try to celebrate them but if your children are encouraging you to go see uh gabby's dollhouse the movie i would just say like there's other kids movies out right now and maybe maybe look at other options i fall asleep in the movie theater it was honestly a great nap that i was able to take for 15 minutes while my girls were eating it up
00:03:49
Speaker
Well, speaking of movies, ah should we talk about the science of
Ranking Scares: Methodology and Highlights
00:03:53
Speaker
scare? Yeah, let's talk about scary movies. That seems fitting for a podcast. So the Science of Scare, they they call themselves an organization that makes a list that compiles the scariest movies according to science.
00:04:11
Speaker
so It's a lot of just like heart rate measuring, right? Right. Do you know who run who's who's behind the Science of Scare project? Money Supermarket Broadband.
00:04:22
Speaker
Or moneysupermarket.com. What is that? It's just a website that like discusses insurance, money, utilities, business, travel, stuff like that.
00:04:35
Speaker
Stuff you're into. Okay. um So each year they curate a list of the most terrifying English language films, puts them in there ah to a 250 strong panel and their test subjects are fitted with heart rate monitors.
00:04:50
Speaker
And then their heart rate is tracked throughout each movie. So before they used to just, they would measure the average impact of their short list of movies that, that had on the heart rate measured in BPM of their subjects compared to the average resting BPM of the total sample size, which is 64 BPM.
00:05:07
Speaker
But in 2023, they got way more detailed ah way of measuring. um And they created something called the science of scare score. And it the sample size 250 people.
00:05:18
Speaker
So yeah pretty nice be nice side list. All right. So um you've already seen the list, right? Yes, you shared it with me, although I don't recall Top of Mind. All right.
00:05:32
Speaker
On this list, there's 50. I'm not going to go over all 50, but I am going to mention ah a few more more recent movies. How about that? Coming in at 50, Travis, is our highest performing podcast episode to date, Weapons.
00:05:46
Speaker
51. I hit the last Yeah, had an average resting heart rate of 64, and it's highest spike was 91.
00:05:57
Speaker
and it got i i think, yeah, just the rank is good. let's be I mean, maybe we have a lot of doctors listening to this. No, you're right. my God, they got to 91? That's fascinating. We'll just do the rank. Weapons is 50, and then um tied at 46 with the grudge is 28 days later, with also being 51 is their scare score.
00:06:17
Speaker
um Conjuring Last Rites also got 51, but it's still ranked higher because there it gave it a bit edge on one of these other factors. Okay, so that's why. So Conjuring Last Rites, 49. Long Legs, which we're going to cover, is 44.
00:06:31
Speaker
Evil Dead Rise, which we'll probably do next year with the new Evil Dead movie coming out, 41. Conjuring 3, 38. One of your movies, It, 37. um Halloween, which will be two weeks from now.
00:06:46
Speaker
right no that'll be next week okay so halloween our our our uh wow halloween's what i love halloween but that's crazy to think that people's heart rates got up that much for that movie who knows if these are actually is this the original halloween yeah 1978 1978 right there um number 29 is barbarian another movie we watched um number twenty nine is barbarian another movie we watched Ooh, number 24 is Bring Her Back.
00:07:13
Speaker
Yeah. I can see that. I can definitely see that. Our highest ranking Scurometer movie, The Ring, is coming at 22. Way low. Way low. How is that 22? feel like that should be top 10.
00:07:26
Speaker
I agree. um Speaking of top 10, we're now in the top 10. Well, I'll give you your 15 because it's one of your favorite movies. The Descent is 15. And right below that is ah The Conjuring 2, which we covered, so that's 12.
00:07:40
Speaker
um And then it's the top 10, I'll just read the whole top 10. Talk to me 10. ten Exorcism with Emily Rose is nine. Smiles, Scott Derrickson.
00:07:51
Speaker
He did that one too? Yeah. Oh yeah, you're right. so um yeah this well Not to spoil anything, but the reason we're covering this list is because scottris Scott Derrickson scores pretty high ah in this list, as you just saw at number nine.
00:08:05
Speaker
And then eight is Smile, seven is Smile 2. Hereditary, Travis's self-proclaimed best horror movie of all time, which that's a little much for me. But you know we're glad Travis has a favorite movie. That's fine.
00:08:16
Speaker
We can let him say that. number six. Chondry is five, which is our number two for Scare Meter. Insidious is four. Skin and Marine, number three, which was... Yeah, I'm sure you're stoked on that. I am, but I don't know if it's I don't think it's scary than Conjuring.
00:08:32
Speaker
I love that movie though. Host, which you saw, is number two. Yes, I've seen Host. you Is it deserving of number two? Probably not. I mean, it's been five plus years since I've seen it, so maybe I need revisit it.
00:08:45
Speaker
But i I have distinctly getting scared out of my mind memories from a lot of other films, and that is not one of them. Well, maybe people are watching it post-COVID, and they're just so scared of being back in those like desktop movies and they're just like oh my god my heart i'm getting stressed out watching this because it all takes place in a desktop right like you're on a screen the whole time host yeah maybe we're thinking i'm thinking korean film host i'm talking about 2020 yeah it's this horror supernatural movie that takes place on a computer oh i've never heard of this film okay that makes a lot more sense the host is like a monster movie yeah know it's very famous yeah it's bong joon ho
00:09:26
Speaker
Yeah, but um okay. Did um see this one.
Connections in Horror: 'Sinister' and 'The Black Phone'
00:09:30
Speaker
And then number one, our boy Scott Derrickson, Sinister, coming in and number one. It's scare score is 96.
00:09:40
Speaker
What are your thoughts on number one, Sinister? I remember Sinister being pretty dang scary. It's been a while since I've seen that, but it's also, um, you know, getting into today's film, not only is this Scott Derrickson directing, but it's also Ethan Hawke as the leading role in there, which we get in black phone and black belt two now.
00:09:59
Speaker
And that one was, I mean, that had to be the scariest Derrickson film I've ever seen. And probably the scariest movie I've seen Ethan Hawke in who's in, who's been in a handful of horror movies.
00:10:14
Speaker
He is not just Ethan Hawke that is the connection between those movies, um but also the fact that he's eight millimeter footage in Sinister. ah And then half the movie we just watched tonight ah is on eight millimeter.
00:10:27
Speaker
I think we established this in some of our prior episodes, but analog or eight millimeter film, it really adds to horror movies. i think that's become one of our pillars of like, if you put that in there, it's a net positive.
00:10:43
Speaker
I agree. It just is more tactile and weird and spooky. um So yeah, good job, Scott Derrickson. We will see if the Black Phone 2 ranks on this list next year. um And I'm sure we'll discuss how scary this is later in the bottom.
00:11:01
Speaker
Cool. Well, with that, this is the Sunday Scaries. I'm Travis Telerik. Sorry, I'm eating my dinner. I'm Ricky Townsend. I'm eating my dinner. um Hi, Hungry. My name's Dad.
00:11:17
Speaker
Today we're covering Black Phone 2, the sequel to Scott Derrickson's 2022 film, The Black Phone, already getting a release new in theaters this weekend as you're listening to it.
00:11:31
Speaker
Um... You know, this is a movie I wasn't aware they were making a sequel to until just earlier in the year. So I was way behind production and was not on my radar. And here we are. We we have it during our spooky month. One of the few...
00:11:47
Speaker
horror movies that we're paying attention to actually releasing October. always curious why more horror films don't pick this month to release when I feel like there's a lot of demand for seeing scary movies, but they at least tried to capture that demand and coming out during spooky season.
00:12:05
Speaker
um Before we get into what we thought the film, Rick, you want to tell our listeners what this movie is about? Yeah. Sure. The Black Phone 2. As Finn, now 17, struggles with life after his captivity, his sister begins receiving calls in her dreams from the Black Phone and seeing disturbing visions of three boys being stalked at a winter camp known as Alpine Lake.
00:12:29
Speaker
Directed by Scott Derrickson, co-written by Scott Derrickson, and C. Robert Cargill. with Adapted by an original story by Joe Hill. Joe Hill. You familiar with him at all? Have we talked about this before? No, no we have not.
00:12:43
Speaker
We have extensively talked about his dad a lot. Oh, okay. This is, it's Stephen King's son? It's Stephen King's son. Yeah, Joe King, pen name Joe Hill.
00:12:54
Speaker
I was going to find a way to weasel this into the pod today, and I didn't feel it as much with the sequel, but dude, the first black phone, it feels like a Stephen King...
00:13:05
Speaker
I'm going to say this is nice. not a Maybe not a ripoff now that know it's his son, but it feels very pulled from the Stephen King universe. Kids and supernatural and monsters and trauma and violence that you're not expecting.
00:13:19
Speaker
And yeah. Okay. that makes That makes so much sense,
Influences and Expectations in 'The Black Phone' Sequel
00:13:23
Speaker
dude. Because I was like, ah wonder if Travis thinking to himself, man, this guy wishes he was Stephen King. Yeah, no, this is, this is his son.
00:13:31
Speaker
His other son, Owen is a writer as well. So it's a family gene. Um, but yeah, this was based on one of Joe Hill's short stories that Derrickson adapted. then This is getting way ahead of ourselves. But again, Hill, I believe, approached Derrickson for the sequel as well, saying like, you know, here's an idea. Yeah, so he he just gave him a premise, but he did not he did not co-write it with them. Yes, correct.
00:13:53
Speaker
Just that overall story idea, that little nugget to get it going. But um yeah, so obviously as a huge Stephen King fan, i I had to inform you of that. I mean, I was... There's a scene in the first one where like literally it's raining in a suburban neighborhood and somebody's wearing a yellow rain slicker.
00:14:10
Speaker
And I'm like, all right, are we watching it? Is that George? Yeah. He's going to lose his arm soon. Georgie? Georgie? Yeah. yeah So... I saw the original, i don't know, a year or two ago. I did not see it in theaters.
00:14:23
Speaker
I caught it after the fact, but a while ago and was excited to see the sequel. You had never seen the original. No, just I always wanted to. just I was always surprised. I always love when an original does makes bank and it made like $160 million globally, which was not expected for this small little Ethan Hawke-led movie that you know, I don't think people are expecting that much money. So got good reviews. And yeah, I finally saw it this week and ah really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed the first one.
00:14:50
Speaker
ah You know, we'll get into it. I know we talked pre pot a little bit, but Scott Derrickson has a way with um sonically mass like sonically manufacturing really creepy sounds and noises yeah uh but also has a penchant for good needle drops too and like yeah wields those two uh things pretty effectively um but i yeah i liked like blackfoot one i kind of want to see that again Yeah.
00:15:16
Speaker
So what are your thoughts here on the sequel? having you You are fresh coming out of the theater. i am fresh. You got home just an hour ago. I did. You've had a bit more time to stew on this, but I know you saw it earlier today as well. yeah um I'm still collecting my thoughts.
00:15:30
Speaker
I think Derrickson definitely has... a vision like he definitely has a style and i haven't i haven't seen emily rose but i've seen sinister i've seen black phone i've seen black phone too and i think i've seen one more of his and his things are definitely deliver us from evil No.
00:15:51
Speaker
Oh, okay. He also did a Hellraiser sequel. That was like what his first film. Yeah, his first thing. And he won famously was either in production or in pre-production for Doctor Strange 2, Multiverse of Madness, and he was yanked because of creative differences they replaced him Sam Raimi.
00:16:09
Speaker
ah Oh, okay. But he did one of the Doctor Strange films. He might have done the first one, maybe. that what you're seeing? he did ah He did the original.
00:16:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And he was supposed to do the second one, and he was really excited because he he said in like press campaign or like and some interviews that he was going to make it a true horror film because that's like where his interests and skill set lies.
00:16:36
Speaker
But rumor on the street, anything I think I confirmed, but I guess his idea of horror was too far for the mouse. And they were just like, we're not we're not having that. So let's bring in Sam Raimi, who...
00:16:47
Speaker
already knew how to you know do spider-man and done done big big big money for for marvel in the past yeah um i did not uh i have issues with this film though i do have some issues with this film i i don't want to be a downer obviously um we as you said earlier we come here to celebrate movies and not we're not critics i mean some people like think these are these are real reviews We don't have those credentials. We are two guys talking about what we think the movie means and what we think of it, and then we give you information about the movie. So um I think I definitely was swept up in the in the pre-release hype.
00:17:28
Speaker
And in this case, looking back, I think I did get swept up in like what was clearly like paid promotional advertising. um Now that you've told me that Stephen King is Joe Hill's father, that makes a whole lot of sense why his tweet like made all the headlines.
00:17:44
Speaker
Stephen King was like, this is better than the first one. One of the best horror movies of the year. And he doesn't usually comment on horror movies like this. like, man, if Stephen King is saying that, I gotta watch it. And then a few guys I follow on Instagram who I think are getting bigger as their platforms increase, they had very suspiciously, extremely positive reviews of the movie.
00:18:04
Speaker
Saying best movie of the year, best horror film of the year. So I'm feeling a little duped. It's definitely... on the lower end of my horror films of the year, ah it just felt kind of um ham-fisted.
00:18:17
Speaker
four Performances weren't that great. And some of the like Christian allegories I felt were it was like not very allegorical. They were just like... Here's a caricature of what we think bad Christians are.
00:18:28
Speaker
Here's a cool Christian. This is a cool Christian movie. This is a cool Christian. We can say fuck. We can say shit. We smoke pot. But actually, at the end of the day pot isn't good. You shouldn't do it. I don't know. I just... ah kind of It just kind of rubbed me the wrong way.
00:18:39
Speaker
I thought the visuals were cool. I thought the set the music was... Another Pink Floyd song. And then ah the premise. I thought the premise was neat. But... Freddy Krueger much?
00:18:50
Speaker
little bit of a ripoff of Freddy Krueger? a little bit? I mean, what's the what's the difference? A few things. There's a lot of sub-genres within horror, so you're always going to find some plot lines or similarities between
Comparing Horror Films: Unique Elements
00:19:04
Speaker
other horror films. so I don't knock it too much for being dream related.
00:19:08
Speaker
um But it's it's like literally he can access her through her dreams and hurt her through her dreams and people are trying to wake her up. oh and I think the biggest difference here is that the kids in Black Phone, Gwen and her brother, who are the ones who kind of have this power of using their dreams to interact with the supernatural.
00:19:27
Speaker
I think Freddy Krueger is usually more of him using dreams and kind of being the, you know, if you think of inception, the film, there's one person, you know, there's the architect essentially of the dreams, which I think is what Leo's character. And that's the one who could kind of control what's happening.
00:19:45
Speaker
Well, no, no, Leo, Leo is the, ah he's just the burglar. He goes in. Oh, he's the la dream. He's a, he's a Joseph Gordon. Levitt was the burglar. Was he the architect? Someone was the architect.
00:19:56
Speaker
No, Ellen Page's character, architect. Ellen Page. Okay. Well, no, sorry. Elliot Page. Elliot Page. Freddie Kruger is the architect in the in the Nightmare on Elm Street franchise where here you have the kids being the architects there.
00:20:10
Speaker
What did you think? Yeah. i I strong disagree on it being a Nightmare on Elm Street ripoff. I think it has its very own unique kind of background and story.
00:20:24
Speaker
But to your point, especially for the sequel, I don't think the story was that great. I think the screenwriting just a little bit lacking. the The acting... was okay, but a lot of it seems, it almost seems campy, which is funny because it's an 80s set film where I don't think that was the intention, but some of the dialogue and stuff or just how the plot plays out, you're like, okay.
00:20:47
Speaker
when you think of When you think of campy, what do you think of? you you you you call you use that You use that term a lot. I want to know in this case what you mean by that because we shouldn't just say if a bad movie is a bad movie, we shouldn't call it campy. Yeah, i I'd say like you this is going to be a period piece gets set in the early 80s.
00:21:06
Speaker
And so they're ham fisted is maybe a harder way to use that. But like the lingo they're saying choice, how the plot moves forward. It's mint. um Radical. it It took me out the form of the film a bit.
00:21:19
Speaker
Now, that was my criticism. I should have probably started with my praise that I think stylistically This film is extremely appealing to me. I love how it looks visually.
00:21:31
Speaker
i love what Scott Derrickson does with, you know, especially the white noise during those dream sequences where you hear this crackling and popping and how he continually transitions between you know this like millimeter grainier film in the dream sequences to, I don't know if it's digital, but just a lot sharper picture um for when they're not dreaming.
00:21:51
Speaker
And I, I really liked that. And I, I think everything about that made me enjoy that part of the film, but when it actually got to the nuts and bolts of like, why are we getting a sequel to black phone?
00:22:04
Speaker
Like, is this really unfinished business we need to see? it seemed very much like a packed on yes storyline that didn't, didn't really feel like we needed it. Right. So that's, that's probably my biggest issue with the film.
00:22:16
Speaker
So I like seeing us return to these characters. It held my interest, but kind of like you said, this isn't going to one of my favorite horror films of the year. I, and I liked the original better.
00:22:28
Speaker
I should say that. I think you'd agree. Yes, I think the original is a better movie. um I feel like the original was a good movie despite poor performances.
00:22:38
Speaker
um I think the father is just, I don't, he's making a lot of choices that I'm just, I don't really, i don't mean as a character, i mean as an actor. Are talking about Jeremy Davies?
00:22:51
Speaker
Yeah, man. He just seems like an SNL character who's like playing a drunk dad. And it's like all the yeah all the all the cliches you get. And then thought the daughter, it was a tough go for me on the first one.
00:23:03
Speaker
Yeah. and ah And then when the second one starts, I'm like, okay, finally we're done with the daughter. And then he they recast, they they cast her again. and i'm like I'm with you on both those two. Those were probably the two.
00:23:14
Speaker
worst performances because i think i think uh mason thames is just an incredible job and he's asked to do he has a tough job in this one because he's got to be brooding and angry the whole time which that can come that can be really difficult because you can be really one note and you can return to the same facial expressions or or noises and he really has a sense of desperation and and just just so he's so tired of being angry he's tired And i thought I thought that was great. and but So then when we focused more so on the daughter, a little disappointed. So the first the first film focuses primarily on Mason Thames.
00:23:50
Speaker
The second film, how it's different and unique is it focuses more on his sister, who's played by Madeline McGraw. Yeah. And I'm with you where you know when you shift the focus to her and she was kind of the weaker link as far as I think the performance she gave, it does hurt the film.
00:24:09
Speaker
Yeah, I think, and again, I'm um i'm not trying to dogpile on the movie, but I'm fresh out, and um this is exactly how I feel, so I'm just trying to, yeah I'm just going through my thoughts. ah I think the daughter's performance...
00:24:24
Speaker
plus this overall feeling of like badassery in the movie of like the dead kids standing over these people and like this music of like triumphant and that she all of a sudden breaks glass because she's psychic. like There's a lot of like, whoa, look how cool these kids are. We're gonna defeat evil.
00:24:43
Speaker
I almost wanted evil to like have a bit more power over them or like to be more of a threat. And I know he does some crazy shit in this movie, but I just kept feeling like, uh, there was a lot of like, Hey man, look how cool this girl is.
00:25:00
Speaker
Yeah. Seems i kind of like trying to set her up as 11 from stranger things. Yeah. to Get those vibes. It just wasn't done. Yeah. can well i i agree. it was, um, I,
00:25:11
Speaker
A lot of the notes the movie hits, it just felt like try hard without really making me one accept it. It's try hard, is it? ah But I'll tell you what I do like. i you Eight millimeter footage, anytime I see that on the big screen, I think it's so cool. And it's the noise. I think Derrickson does it really well. Like you see a lot of blood and gore, but on eight millimeter.
00:25:32
Speaker
And it takes you back to like classic horror films. But with today's technology and know how, where I think it was like a uniquely cool way to you know, see scary sequences. And I think Derrickson does a great job. Him and his ah director of photography. I don't know who.
00:25:50
Speaker
Oh, good luck with the name. Oh, really? Par M. Eckberg. But Par has the umlaut over the A. Back to the umlaut. Par?
00:26:01
Speaker
Par? I don't know. Goose with the umlaut. yeah um but ah I also like the setting. i and dude It doesn't matter the movie. If you set something in the snow in the wintry blizzard, chances are I'm really going like it. And it's Colorado.
00:26:20
Speaker
It's Colorado. Oh, yeah. never but Shout out Denver Broncos. There's a lot of um real Colorado landmarks and places they're talking about through the film. um So, i of course, I love that.
00:26:30
Speaker
And yes, I think Blizzard's set... Horror movies are great because there's a lot of, there's a lot that that lends to the writing and like where people are trapped in a location that can make sense. And you're like, yeah, they got snowed in. that That can really happen. And I think a lot of that was great. I do love period pieces again. So that was a little heavy handed here, but setting it again in the 80s. think the first film was based in 79. So now should be in like 82 since. yeah it's four years later.
00:27:00
Speaker
so maybe 83. Love, love that setting. And um love love that setting and Yeah, it's just a mixed movie, right? It had a lot of good stuff going for it where I just can't help but feel like it botched the execution a bit. And that's what kept it away from being truly a good or even great scary movie for this year.
00:27:21
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I would agree.
Faith and Creativity in Derrickson's Work
00:27:23
Speaker
um Wait, but but speaking of being stuck in a blizzard somewhere, do you know the connection between this movie and another movie about being stuck somewhere during a blizzard?
00:27:36
Speaker
You're not even going to tell the movie and have to guess what the connection is? Okay, Hateful Eight. um Do I know the connection? No, I don't. So Damien Beshear, who plays Mondo in this movie, the moment he stepped on screen in this movie...
00:27:54
Speaker
I was like, holy shit, that's Bob from Hateful Eight. He plays basically, he's a different character, but his dialect is the same. he's the He's like, his name is Bob in Hateful Yes, I remember now. Remember him? He's like, oh, hey, like what's going on, guys? like yeah Welcome to the cabin. Nothing's wrong. He's the one there who greets them when they show up at the very beginning. And then they he greets them here in Black Phone 2. That's right. And I was like, dude, is this a Bob lookalike or is this actually Bob? And I Googled it afterwards and I was like, oh my gosh. she He gave a pretty good performance too. yeah I know we were criticizing Jeremy Davies and Madeline McGraw, but he he was pretty good.
00:28:31
Speaker
what do you What do you think of, um and this isn't this is not not a criticism. I mean i said earlier, like I do think it's there's some heavy-handed stuff. like Drugs are bad and fundamentalist questions are bad. But what did you Scott Derrickson and I, you know, when I used to be more religious, I did follow him a lot because I thought it was cool that a Christian filmmaker could make R rated movies that weren't just like go to church movies.
00:28:54
Speaker
How do you think he threaded in his own faith into this movie? Because I think it's becoming a larger part of who he is as a filmmaker, Which I'm just going to put out and say it.
00:29:06
Speaker
Even if it's not one I subscribe to, I do think it's neat that he's like finding ways, different ways to get his beliefs out there without it being your typical like the chosen series or like all these shitty football movies that are made for $2 and then make three.
00:29:21
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I didn't find it as heavy-handed as you did, but where he does bring it up, which is a common trope that not just he uses, but even like non-religious other filmmakers use, is there's a caricature of these religious fundamentalists, or essentially just bad people, are using religion as a cudgel, and then your protagonists are more just like, you know it's just faith in being a good person. That's what we should think about more so than you know, rules and judging others.
00:29:52
Speaker
And he likes to contrast those. And I like that. There's actually a really funny line. I was gonna say this for later. But where this like fundamentalist or person who's using religion as a cudgel, Barbara, one of the characters says, you think internet, right?
00:30:08
Speaker
yeah She says, Oh, I'll pray for you. Oh, yeah, which I think is so classic of like, after that You know, that's a very passive aggressive way for a religious person to talk shit to you to be like, Oh, man, your life, you you got to fix some things in your life. So I'm going to say I'll pray for you like that.
00:30:24
Speaker
And so like, I like, I like that. i mean was good I thought it wasn't too heavy. Not heavy, but maybe not heavy handed, but it is infused throughout the film, like religious iconography. There's crosses everywhere.
00:30:36
Speaker
There's scripture everywhere. We're talking about what was a Christian camp, which makes sense. A lot of these kids camps yeah back in the seventies, eighties were, you know, Christian I did on that note I did like that um and that you see this often on the political or religious stage where that woman Barbara uses a verse to prove her point and then Gwen uses the same verse to like basically tell her she's a dumbass like hey this is actually not what that verse do you like when people get into fights over reciting scripture Yeah. I'm like, yeah, what let him fight it out. Yeah. um
00:31:12
Speaker
But yeah I wonder if I, you know, this is the this is the the pitfall of doing a pod so soon after watching the movie. You know, you and I always like to be able to have a night to sleep on it.
00:31:23
Speaker
In this case, because of our schedules, we couldn't do that.
Box Office Predictions and Career Reflections
00:31:26
Speaker
Maybe I wake up tomorrow and I'm a bit kinder about the movie and ah I let the visuals and and you know it's sonic effectiveness again I think the sound design and the score and the needle drops were great maybe that shines through a bit more but for now I do think it is you know it left me a bit wanting i still think Derrickson's a director that will have success in the future and maybe he'll have another movie that ah hits that scary list but I think there's other better horror movies out there this year yeah
00:31:56
Speaker
Yeah. um Let's talk production notes. So a few things. It's Thursday that we are recording this. So we're just getting Thursday preview numbers in. There's a lot of the weekend ahead of us.
00:32:12
Speaker
But box office theory is predicting an opening weekend of $24 million, which would be ah great success there. um Especially considering, you know, they upped the budget from the first film, but I'm seeing reported that their budget was $30 million.
00:32:26
Speaker
So they could pull in 24 opening weekend, this sounds like it might be a box office success. First of made twenty one $21 domestically, and then i don't know what made domestically overall, but globally it made like $161.
00:32:39
Speaker
So pretty smash hit for a yeah small budget. i think it was $20 million, the first one. Yeah, I saw you below that. But yeah, so it looks like it's on track to be successful. If you're saying maybe this was even a conservative estimate, maybe it'll even exceed that.
00:32:54
Speaker
You were talking about box office. I just quickly wanna go over the meta, you know, I like Metacritic as a guide for the films more than Rotten Tomatoes, but um the meta score for the first one was 65.
00:33:07
Speaker
And I believe the second one 60. ah is sixty Yeah, it's 60. So it goes from generally favorable to mixed or average, which I kind of agree with.
00:33:20
Speaker
um we've talked a lot about scott derrickson i think the only other thing i want to bring up is so black phone the original releases 2022 one of my favorite horror anthologies vhs oh yeah 2023 edition which was vhs 85 had a short that derrickson directed called dream kill which is kind of related to the black phone universe so if you've seen the first one seen the second one you want a little bit more go watch vhs 85 and dream kill was Honestly, for the VHS franchise, one of my favorite segments for any of the VHS films. It's really good.
00:33:55
Speaker
Did you check out VHS Halloween yet? I haven't. haven't seen it you wait and You wait until that special night, special moment. i Light the candles. i i need I am busy enough right now with the pod and obviously work and family stuff where I need to find a time to get that in.
00:34:10
Speaker
right. So we talked about Scott Derrickson again. He, he also wrote this or co-wrote this with Cargill. Joe Hill wrote the original story. So cast again. so we get this we've touched on briefly, but we get Mason Thames playing one of the leads as Finney.
00:34:26
Speaker
um He also came out in the live action. oh yeah. Remake of how to train your dragon this year. He was the lead in that. um So very successful film there as well. Madeline McGraw, you know, she's back as Gwen and who we didn't love that much. Did you know the only other, she was like a child star.
00:34:45
Speaker
The only other notable acting credit I saw for her outside Black Phone is she was Bonnie, the voice of Bonnie in Toy Story 4. Oh, big, big role. I mainly bring that up. I've seen that movie probably at least five to eight times in the last year, thanks to my kids. So yeah, the only other cast people is Jeremy Davies is the dad, Terrence, who saving Private Ryan, very famously is the coward who lets his buddy die.
00:35:12
Speaker
Also, he's in Lost. Is he a coward drunk there too? shows No, he's a brilliant scientist in Lost. Duality of man. And the only other one is their mom, Hope, we actually see in this film, played by Anna Lore, who is also in Final Destination Bloodlines, which covered earlier this year.
00:35:32
Speaker
Oh, yeah. She's the girl who gets crushed by the... She's the sister. Yeah. She gets crushed by the trash compactor. Which, we didn't mention this on that pod, Trav. We didn't mention this connection, but his app, we mentioned what the app is called instead of Hinge or Tinder or Bumble. It's called Crusher. Mm-hmm.
00:35:51
Speaker
And he's the he's in a machine that crushes that girl. ah just go yeah. I didn't even put one on one. I was listening to the pod. spell it up for me I was listening to the pod um a few days ago. just you know yeah That movie has a lot of really good Easter eggs. I hope the writing on that is as good in this next one they make. It's the same writer as a different director.
00:36:12
Speaker
Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying. I hope it's as good. Oh, no you know, Travis, should should we take this time for you to finally get off your chest your biggest note about our trick or treat episode in terms of casting but that we missed out on mentioning someone's famous role?
00:36:27
Speaker
Did you not bring up? Well, I know you talked about Leslie Bibb, but the only thing you mentioned for her was White Lotus, which is a disservice. And then talking about White Lotus, you should at least brought up who her husband is. I've never seen it.
00:36:38
Speaker
I've never seen it. But do you know who like Leslie Bibb is married to? Well, I know that she's married to both Will Ferrell and John C. Reilly at different times in the Ricky Bobby Talladega Nights movie. Um, she's married to Sam Rockwell in real life. Oh, nice. in White Lotus with her. They're in the season together. but No, the first thing you said when I sent you the pod to edit, you're like, cool, cool, cool. How did you not mention Anna Paquin is rogue in the X-Men movie? Oh yeah.
00:37:04
Speaker
Thank you. Sorry. I forgot. I said that. Yeah. She's in like four X-Men films. oh that's yeah I like that's where everyone. I was juggling a lot. I had to, i had to host two different people.
00:37:15
Speaker
ah a female which we've never had on the pod that's a different dynamic had to talk to a girl had to talk to a girl again it's hard woof yes yes she's rogue okay that's it for production notes you want to jump right into our awards get into spoiler territory here um yeah let's do it all right Scurometer where are we out of 10 I know we teed this episode off and talked about some scary films again I'm yeah I'll have to watch Sinister
Rating Scares and Musical Impact
00:37:46
Speaker
again. I don't want to sign off on it's the scariest film of all time.
00:37:49
Speaker
I could see it. be Being on the list, for sure, though. I need to rewatch it to recalibrate. We'll have to cover that at some point. But where's Blackphone 2? usually go first, but how about you? get I was thinking a 6. It's definitely scarier than not scary.
00:38:04
Speaker
um I give a 6. It's not a Conjuring scary. It's not a bring her back scary. Definitely not the ring. But there's there like a legit moment in the film. And I guess we're getting to spoilers. But when they're in the cabins and Gwen, who's Madeline McGraw's character, is...
00:38:20
Speaker
by herself. I'm just like, well, this is gonna get very scary very quickly. And sure enough, it does. And so it's good. There's some there's some sequences which we can maybe get into with dual knives or later category where I think they intended it to be scary, but did not have that effect.
00:38:36
Speaker
um Yeah, fuck it. I'll just get ahead of it. Putting a horror villain on ice skates and skating around a lake. I don't know if I'm supposed to be s scared by that or or impressed.
00:38:47
Speaker
I mean, it was some amazing choreography and stunt work, but um that's where it almost like maybe it could have been a seven. They didn't have that sequence in the film where I'm just like, i this is cool. I admire this. I'm not scared by it. but i mean, he had good form.
00:39:02
Speaker
I was expecting him to use the skates as like a weapon, but no, they're just a way to glide around. Yeah. There we go. Yeah, ice skater.
00:39:14
Speaker
Yeah, I gave it a six as well. I i think the... um Some of that 8mm stuff is really creepy, man. yeah Some of that imagery is going to stick in my head. Those dream sequences. yeah um I really like that.
00:39:27
Speaker
I really i like that. yeah And then there's some some solid, at least two or three really good jump scares. One that really got me. One that really got me. yeah I wonder if we'll have the same answer. Perfect. we'll We'll get into that here shortly. but yeah okay Agreed on how scary this film was. so it is It is a scary film, even for horror standards.
00:39:46
Speaker
Highlights. i My favorite part was... and They do do... Do do? They do a good job of making you wait to see a full scene with the grabber.
00:40:01
Speaker
And it really does not disappoint when he's finally there to corner Gwen. i think it's in like hit a kitchen or something. But really good fight choreography. Yeah. Real peril for her.
00:40:14
Speaker
um i mean... The stunt work, we we should have mentioned that off the top for positives. like They're doing some really cool stuff, and it looks good. It doesn't look too computer-heavy.
00:40:25
Speaker
i mean That's coming from the first one, too. I mean ah feel like anytime there's a physical confrontation, whether it's between... two kids or the grabber and and finn i thought the it looked yeah very looked very good effects lived when you have an invisible foe so then you get point of view shots from the people who can't see him and you see the character like getting spun around or thrown around it's hard to accomplish i think they did a good job with those yeah so that is that is my my highlight i i guess i can
00:40:57
Speaker
My other one would have been the song we've talked about pre-pod, which yes we want to wait till, ozac is that yours? oh No, let's start but that was mine. Okay, go for it. Assuming we're both talking about near the start of the film when they get Pyle in the car to drive up to the camp and they drop another brick on the wall, which you informed me, so I want to give you credit. that I was like, is this a cover? But no, Pink Floyd has different parts to that track. And so what I'm most familiar with is I think part two. Yeah, that's the one that made the radio. It's made the radio. But what they chose for the film is part one, which I'd never heard before. Honestly, I might like it better. At least it was good for the tone of the film. was perfect for that scene.
00:41:38
Speaker
It's like a prologue to the main song, I guess. It's kind of creepy. But ah i ah this is probably yeah probably my second highlight because i want to hear why you liked it. But real quick, one of the reasons I liked it is because similar to how I loved how James Wan and the other directors of the Conjuring movies, um which is just Chavez, right? Isn't Chavez?
00:42:01
Speaker
Wan did first two Chavez. It's just Wan and Chavez. They both... ah towards the beginning of those movies always have like a time specific needle drop that carries us through a long introduction to that family.
00:42:14
Speaker
Well, I thought it was really unique in the first black phone that he didn't just use a refrain from a Pink Floyd song called on the run off of um dark side of the moon, dark side of the moon. Thank you.
00:42:26
Speaker
um Played the whole song. And that's one of my favorite songs. One of my favorite albums And i was just levitate. I was just said levitate another pod. Fuck. Tired, man. I was very excited to to hear that in full.
00:42:40
Speaker
The moment another brick in the wall part one dropped i was like oh hell yeah we're gonna hear the whole thing because it's only three minutes it's like a prologue of a song and cut to really cool imagery of you know driving in a blizzard yeah it is it that does look cool again that that was well shot um so yeah that was probably my highlight other than we've we've mentioned a few times which is all the eight millimeter footage is is really good throughout Yeah. So moving into this huge jump scare. Well, now i want you to start. I'm afraid I'm going to guess the wrong guy. had like two really good ones. And so I'll let you start. So I can disagree with you and make sure we're on the same page.
00:43:17
Speaker
The one that I literally like jumped up like a little frog in my chair was the boy under the bed. Yep. Yep. When she's looking, on which I don't know how it got me because anytime a character is looking under the bed, you should know you should brace yourself and But there's there's some magic and art form to timing that moment that like, despite me practically knowing it's going to happen, he, it's like when you hear a song on a four, or four beat and then you play a song a four five beat, there's like something unsettling and off about it.
00:43:49
Speaker
ah That was Worland talking to us about that, right? Yes. Yeah. On the Halloween episode, which will be an episode that comes out next week. Yeah. Um, ah just a weird amount of time passed before that kid emerged under Gwen's bed and he looks all dead. So that got me really good. Yeah.
00:44:06
Speaker
That, that, yeah, that was one of my two biggest jump scares. They, they had a few good ones throughout the film, you know, specific to that
Classic Horror Tropes and Podcast Awards
00:44:14
Speaker
one though. So this is Gwen in a bunk room by herself and,
00:44:17
Speaker
And she's, you know, hearing noises. She knows someone's in there, something's going on. And when she looks under the bed, like checking under your bed is one of the oldest horror tropes.
00:44:28
Speaker
Yes. But it is still so damn effective where it's silly because like this scared me as a kid and still as an adult, I'm getting scared watching this film. Yeah. And so i It's just like it's unbeaten, right? It's undefeated for like you could show a character looking under a bed. I'm like, oh, shit, i I'm scared, even though I've seen this countless times in horror films.
00:44:49
Speaker
Yeah. Well, is you know, you're so vulnerable. It's like it reminds you of being a kid and it's the dark and it's underneath you and what's supposed to be a safe space. So. um this talking about this scene just made me because when we started doing this i was like yeah i don't think i'm gonna have any um of our spooky awards for the end of the year don't think it's gonna be nominated for anything but that i just added that as my fifth nominee for ben jar ben gardener jump scare award yeah so yeah i might have to i don't have my list in front of me
00:45:23
Speaker
But it's up there. it's It's definitely... It's up there for a nomination. for I mean, I can tell you what your list that says. Okay. You only have three. Your best jump scare nominees for our end of the year spookies, which will we present in awards form in December as an awards show, ah is...
00:45:45
Speaker
the knife scene and bring her back. Is that mistake? Did you, because you, I think it's still, yeah, if you have that in both. You have the knife scene and best. and I think it could earn both because it's a quick cut to where you really see what's going on, but it's good.
00:45:59
Speaker
Maybe, maybe I'll silo it in one or the other. um And then this is not a movie I've seen, but so it says Mel flashback for until dawn. Oh yeah. That was, that was a very good scare.
00:46:12
Speaker
That is probably the only redeeming part of that movie. Not to knock it too much. And then ah the third is head banging on the office door from Together. Yeah. I'm surprised you don't have Gladys on the ceiling from Weapons.
00:46:25
Speaker
Yeah, that got me. um I mean, this is a underdevelopment list. And so if I feel very strongly when I just watched the movie, I try to throw it up there if I feel like stands out. I think this under the bed jump scare could could get to my best jump scares of the year then for nomination. Yep.
00:46:41
Speaker
Cool. So that was yours as well? Mm-hmm. um well Okay, you go first this time. but the small Again, it's tough. I realize with our awards, this is going to be like the original cantaloupe scene for bringing back, but for my cantaloupe award,
00:46:57
Speaker
It is that whole segment when Gwen's in the bunk room by herself and she starts investigating and looking around. So leading up to that jump scare, because just like you said, it's it's one where it's not out of nowhere, but it still manages to effectively scare you.
00:47:12
Speaker
And this whole time in the lead up, like I was you know, trying to cover my ears, trying to cover my eyes. That's probably why I didn't jump as much as you did. Because I was trying to prepare my body for for impact here.
00:47:27
Speaker
Preparing your body for impact. travis Sounds like you on a weekend at SMU.
00:47:33
Speaker
um Yeah, so that that was mine. i use I think i tend you you tend to go more towards tension, and I usually go find what the grossest thing was. ah And as you know, head trauma is always one that's tough for me, but also I'm a sick fuck and I like to watch it.
00:47:50
Speaker
Kid's head gets split. Yes, yes. yeah And his face is twitching on the ground as the after yeah the windowpane slashes it in half. Well, not even half. It bisects his face.
00:48:02
Speaker
face and yep and like in a diagonal way and yes and it's dude this again he's a master at sound design it flops on the ground you just hear this wet squish of his face and again science i don't think would back this up i don't think i've ever seen this but his eye and mouth is like moving twitching ah as a pool of blood just yeah grows underneath it uh We talked about this on Trick or Treat, but this is definitely like a fuck them kids movie.
00:48:32
Speaker
but Yeah. Children just get absolutely... Derrickson's okay with kids getting murdered. They get just... To give us a few scary scenes....torched in this. yeah Literally one of them gets torched.
00:48:42
Speaker
Yeah. um um Yeah, that's that's really good too. I remember that. I really like the cringe of that. Speaking of, I'm just going to use this as a segue to the next one because we're talking about getting torched, but I did have that kid who got burned as the cannon fodder award simply because like that just felt over the line. that was like, all right, he already got...
00:49:00
Speaker
like mercs he already got his ass handed to him and he's dead or at at least maimed horrifically and the grabber's gonna go out of his way to like light him on fire and now he's a burned victim i just thought that was like that was i feel like each kid needed a unique way they got murdered. Correct. So like so that way you could tell them apart. So he's like, right, well, this one has to be the the burn kid. Right. and like It's like small so ah small soldiers. Like, oh, he he's the the the explosives guy, and he's the archer he's the archery guy He's the this and that.
00:49:33
Speaker
It's like, oh, yeah, we need... I like that, but for Can Fodder, I put Barbara and her husband, Kenneth, getting killed on the ice near the end the film. They didn't get killed. Did they not die?
00:49:44
Speaker
Dude, okay, I'm going to have to... he He hatchets them across the face. Travis, the only reason I know they didn't die is because i have in my ah I have them as my winners, but also as something that's really funny just to watch.
00:49:58
Speaker
If you watch the last scene as the whole group of people are like converging onto Mondo or like towards the center of the screen... Those two people, Barbara and whatever, are both running and they're both holding their foreheads like, ouch. Like, oh, this hurts. This hurts my forehead. um Yes, but he like, now when you see them doing that, you realize, oh, he must have just like slashed them across the head, not like scalped.
00:50:25
Speaker
So Ethan Hawke's grabber is really just for like, A lot of foreplay before murdering people. Yes. He really likes to name people times before he goes into the He likes to edge his victims.
00:50:35
Speaker
Yeah. um Okay. Well then, yeah, I guess yours wins that by default. If they didn't die, they can't be cannon fodder. yeah I just felt like, damn, I almost wish they did um because I felt like they were literally included in the film just for maybe a to poke holes at the bad type of religious caricature.
00:50:56
Speaker
I knew right when you saw that they were assholes. as was like, oh, something bad is happen to them later in the film. Yeah, they should burn hell.
00:51:05
Speaker
um And then best death. Do you have grabber Ethan Hawks character getting re re killed? Yes. I think technically he's already dead. yeah i do that's what I had as well. It's the most intricate.
00:51:17
Speaker
It's the most um satisfying. Yeah.
00:51:23
Speaker
um did think we needed more deaths in this movie yeah it was they save a few characters Mando should have died yeah I thought Armando was gonna die and this is getting into dual knives but like he should have at least got a hypothermia out but then like in the next scene he's just back out on the ice looking for the kids again like I'm good Sorry, I was you know was drowning and freezing in ice cold water. He's a true fisherman of men.
00:51:47
Speaker
Yeah. As Jesus would say. Fisher of men. Not fisherman of men. A fisher. It's been too long. I've been in church. A fisher of men. ah But yes. Okay, so that's our best death.
00:51:59
Speaker
Then we can move right to our Shyamalan. Well, this is sorry. This is where I put in deep cuts. Oh, okay. Do you want to do it? Yeah. I just had three. I had three. So new new award. Just some deep cuts, Easter eggs, so stuff we want to call out. I guess that can't fit in winners and losers.
00:52:15
Speaker
Yep. um I'll make it quick, but ah yeah, I always like when they make a point to remind you you're in your... in the time period that it says you are. So there's a big Duran Duran, a couple of moments about, know, the girl going out with, Oh, we didn't mention, we didn't mention a very choice, very radical.
00:52:36
Speaker
We didn't mention in casting though, that that guy played his older brother in the first movie, Robin. It's the same guy. So Miguel Mora. Yes. He played both plays the character Ernesto also played Robin.
00:52:51
Speaker
Oh my goodness. So ah good for, funny good performance. Cause he's much more meek and sensitive in this one. yeah I didn't realize that. He's a, well, he's a badass in the first one. He's wearing like a bandana. He's like nine years old. yeah How is he like kicking all these 18 year olds asses?
00:53:08
Speaker
Anyways. Uh, so the Duran Duran thing, the tickets to go see the show because he wants to take Gwen out and Finn is unsure about it. Um, Finn is wearing a Peter Gabriel shirt, which is cool.
00:53:20
Speaker
But the one I really liked, anytime there's a movie poster in the background of a movie, I always try to get a look at it because I'm like, it's always intentional. it is always that no No film director is going to just haphazardly put in a movie. He's trying to say something about that movie poster.
00:53:37
Speaker
So it was a 1958 American horror film called The Thing That Couldn't Die. And it's about a man executed for sorcery 400 years in the past whose detached head hypnotizes people in order to have him reunite his head with his body so he can live and feast on the blood of present day people.
00:53:58
Speaker
Isn't that great? The Will Cowan film. I see the connection. It's clearly the grabber. can't die. He can't die. He wants to go back and feast on people that are still alive. and In this case, feast on their fear. In this old movie, feast on their blood. so I just thought that was cool. Scott Derrickson.
00:54:15
Speaker
for I know i I'm giving this movie shit and stuff, but I have to say as a follower of Derrickson, and I used to follow on social media and stuff, true horror head like oh yeah unabashedly is not one of those directors that's like oh i'm trying to branch out and be like do all this other stuff i have some dramas no he's he's just like i'm a horror guy and i love it and i'm gonna make you know that yeah 100 and maybe that's why we can be a little disappointed this one because i think he makes some pretty good films and this isn't top of my list for for his horror films that he's made yeah he he can do better
00:54:49
Speaker
um Okay. Our M. Night Shyamalan Best Twist Award. I actually really like this one. um you want Do you want to go first? or Yeah, I had two.
00:55:01
Speaker
I'm assuming the one you really liked is in the first film, there's a lot of trauma they're dealing with. you know Our elevated horror trope of their mother who committed suicide. And you find out in the second film that she actually did not commit suicide.
00:55:16
Speaker
She is tied intricately back to this camp. What is the camp state? We haven't even mentioned that. Alpine. Alpine Lakes? Yeah, Alpine Lake. She's tied back to Alpine Lake.
00:55:28
Speaker
She knew Bill, who's the grabber. And he actually killed her when she caught on to him. you know, figuring out what he was murdering these kids and he staged it to look like it was a suicide.
00:55:43
Speaker
Yeah. You find out that their mom did not in fact commit suicide, but he, she was killed. Yeah. Is that what you were thinking for um Similar, similar. It was a subset of that whole mom plot, which is the, I love that that little trick he does where, you know, the the prelude to the movie is that, I assume that was their mother because it was like, what, 1958 on the pay phone?
00:56:09
Speaker
Yeah, 1959. But then the fact that she has a conversation with, she was talking to Gwen on the other line. That was really cool. liked that a lot. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And then you find out that was their mom. Yeah. the yeah That was twist being that she was talking to. Yeah. That's the earlier twist. I agree that that one probably.
00:56:26
Speaker
Hey, in a cooler way than, than not retconning, but essentially giving us an explanation for the suicide. Yeah. Um, I like that. um I like that. Yeah. A little twisty, which we see often in horror movies. Um, don't go in there award.
00:56:43
Speaker
Um, It's weird because it's like a lot of these are dream sequences, so you can't blame her initially. But once she realizes that she is in danger and she keeps putting herself in danger. yep We're going to have the exact same one.
00:56:55
Speaker
Yeah. Just don't. yeah Don't fall asleep. Drink some coffee. Drink some coffee or an energy drink. If you've seen any Freddy Krueger movie, the I mean, and eventually they eventually succumbed to it, but she didn't even try. She was just like, no caffeine pills, no cocaine, coffee. The last sequence of the film is just because she nods off while everyone's around her. Like, they got one job to do. When does it fall asleep? He's like, oh no, she ah accidentally fell asleep. It's like, okay.
00:57:23
Speaker
yes that was exactly mine like you get very clear i mean i think by the end of the movie they're trying to embrace her sleeping so they can fight back at least earlier in the film like i i know it sucks to not get your sleep in but i think this would be the type of circumstances that would necessitate like hey maybe just try to stay up tonight you can pull one all-nighter right Do it for multiple nights will drive you crazy. You pull one all-nighter. Yeah, but dude, to pull Nightmare on Elm Street term, she was a dream warrior.
00:57:52
Speaker
Wanted to get in there and and and fight fight evil in her slumber. um Yep, that's what I had for don't go in there as well. ah Best line? I am a bottomless pit of sin.
00:58:07
Speaker
yeah i was like, I feel like that sometimes. Yeah. It strips away all your humanity and leaves you only with your sin. I am a bottomless pit of sin. So that's yeah the other grabber giving us a little exposition to why he's still around because he had so much sin.
00:58:25
Speaker
Um, yeah, I like when, um, so Robin's younger brother, Ernesto is talking to Gwen and Gwen is praying to Jesus and she is in the bunk with him. They're kind of cuddling up, even though her brother is just in the adjacent bunk and you find out later he's still awake. Yeah.
00:58:45
Speaker
But Ernesto has a line when she's praying to Jesus where he's like, Oh, I'm kind of into that, which is very weird, very weird dialogue to be like, I'm turned on by you. praying. But then he adds to it by being by saying that I think it'd be hotter if you called him Jesus Catholic, which, you know, yeah he's many meg really Catholic.
00:59:07
Speaker
That's it. That's a really weird kink. But it may actually I have I I wrote down that line. I had to I had the bottomless pit and I had the ah hot if you say. Yeah, I think the exact words before the Jesus one was a She's like, you don't think it's weird that I'm talking to Jesus? He's like, no, i actually think it's pretty hot.
00:59:30
Speaker
What exactly what he says? Yes. Like, so i was like this is ah get there you little creep. He goes back to the screenwriting, some the dialogue. That's where that's where I use words like campy because I'm like, I don't know if this is trying to be funny, but this is... I don't think it's intentional. The results might still be campy, but I so i think Derrickson is just a very earnest, on-the-nose in some cases, kind of try-hardy screenwriter. he's I think he's a better director than he has a screenwriter.
00:59:58
Speaker
yeah i think that might be it and talking about screenwriting and where it likely was unintentional and added to this by madeline mcgraw's performance very beginning of the film where madeline mcgraw's character gwen talks to ernesto and this is the first we see ernesto pulling up in a car while they're at school she is chatting with him about that durand durand concert and yes i know this is the 80s but within the span of about 30 seconds she uses the words choice mint radical shortly thereafter she's using the word narc later in the film she uses the word dingus yeah or i get it's 80s but it felt we've used the first heavy-handed already forced but i was like oh my god this is just like
01:00:44
Speaker
They gave you guys. If you didn't know phrases, people used in the eighties. Try to say as many of these as possible in the film. Well, as somebody who had lived in the eighties, I can tell you those words were used.
01:00:54
Speaker
You're a few months in 89. Look, I don't want to get into my personal details. Let's just say I was around. um but yes, that's where I was like, oh man, this dialogue.
01:01:06
Speaker
um She uses choice multiple times. to Yes, she does. Yeah. ah Okay, let's go to dual knives. I know we've poked a few holes already. I have a few small ones. I only have one, it's one that bugged me the most.
01:01:20
Speaker
At the end of the movie, when the grabber... his face, the bottom half of his face mask is ripped off, and he is shown to not have any lips. Yet he can still use the F sound, the P sound, the B sound, all of which are impossible to do without lips.
01:01:41
Speaker
Is that a fact? You know that? Travis, try to say the word fear without lips. Fear. Fear. I'm peeling my lips back. Fear. I that was a good fear. And try to say try to say buzzkill without lips.
01:01:54
Speaker
That's kill. Yeah, okay okay. And he's saying perfect Fs and Bs and Ps, and I'm like, Ethan Hawke, you're cool, but you're a skeleton. you Skeletons should canonically talk like this.
01:02:11
Speaker
They don't have lits. Interesting. that's That's a good catch that I was nowhere near. um So I have a few. I'll go quickly. though Okay, tell me what's next. So right after one of my favorite parts, which is another brick in the wall during this montage as they're driving up through the snow, presumably on I-70 trying to get to this camp.
01:02:33
Speaker
they turn off onto the dirt road for the camp and it's doing so bad. They're worried that they might get a car accident, which is a real concern to have, but their solution for this is pity says, I will get out of the car. He long walked him, bro. He long walked this.
01:02:48
Speaker
This makes absolutely no sense. If you are driving slow enough, to just follow a guy trudging through snow, like you will have good enough vision see if you're about to go off a cliff, right? You're going at like five miles an hour here. Yes, yes. And so that was just a ridiculous solution to be like, I'll run in front of your car while you're driving in the snow. so cool, man. He's just cold. Somebody lives in a snowy state.
01:03:14
Speaker
Like that is not a real solution. He's numbing himself in the cold in the same way he numbs himself with the devil's lettuce, as Mando says. and then this one's only a slightly dull knife right it probably needs to be sharpened but salvageable but they do mention the camp was shut down for a few years uh before it's brought back in its current iteration but that was after three kids died and i'm assuming at separate points in time they didn't all die the same night and so it's just a basic question of like how many kids dying is too many kids dying until you finally shut down the camp? Like, did you really have to wait till three separate instances to be like, Hey, something's going on here. And like, they never, they never investigated the staff.
01:03:56
Speaker
Turns out that the grabber was was one of the employees there. And like, come on, come on. and You can't, This doesn't seem like you need super sleep. I mean, I think they have gone. You need Nancy Drew to solve this one.
01:04:07
Speaker
i think I think through is too small, honestly. Kids die, dude. You think they just keep the... Get the double digits. Grizzly murders? If 10 kids die, then it's like, okay, this is going to hit I mean, I guess they didn't recover the body, so they didn't know for sure that they were murdered. They could ran away. So it would more so be like three kids disappear. Like, you know, one kid every winter is disappearing and like...
01:04:29
Speaker
that's not, I know you're still probably getting an A rating for 99% of kids make it home from camp without disappearing forever without, without losing his camp license, which is that a real thing. You really got to be at a hundred percent with the way he said that. i was like, is that a liquor license, but for camps, what does it look at the state licensing board or for permits and see if you need one for camps.
01:04:51
Speaker
Um, and then, uh, the only other one I had was, um, After the really cool set piece where you finally see the grabber and he's going after Gwen and they're in like the camp kitchens and he's trying to finish her off and everyone rushes in to see the grabber. Well, they can't see him, but she's being attacked by some supernatural force.
01:05:13
Speaker
So they can all agree something is going on that is paranormal here. And and those two as Christians are still. Yeah. the Yeah. The two asshole Christians want nothing to do with it.
01:05:23
Speaker
But then after they realized, whoa, some shit's going down, they decide to make the classic horror movie bad decision of they all split up because in the very, split up very next scene, you see Armando like by himself in his office where he's accosted by the grabber as a snowman, I guess, like going at his glass and i don't know.
01:05:42
Speaker
Again, small, tall knife, but like really like you guys should have probably stayed together, especially since it's still that same night well until everything blows over. You don't go by yourself and just be like, Oh, i'm going to start looking through like camp records and doing some solo diligence here.
01:05:57
Speaker
there's Well, potential supernatural serial killer. It would make more sense if they didn't believe what she was saying. Yes. But they all pretty quickly are like, yeah, it's, this is a, you were floating around and this is not a good thing. so Let's all split up and try to figure it out. Yeah, they do exactly. Normal horror trope a lot of people don't buy into it yet, don't think the danger is real. So when they split up, it makes sense because they're not really placing that much weight. Well, don't worry. We had really happening three separate scenes of just exposition dialogue explained to us the rules of all this supernatural thing, all these supernatural things.
01:06:34
Speaker
situations happening without any evidence. I just love that like all of a sudden Gwen's like, yeah, if we set these kids free, yes the grabber will lose his power. I'm like, how do you know that?
01:06:47
Speaker
And then he didn't really lose his power. He's still trucking. He's still there. He's still manifestation. I think that if Finn had shared his weed with everybody, everybody would had their own special powers and...
01:07:01
Speaker
done a lot better meaning they would have all gone to Taco Bell called it a night and left that damn camp and just eat i food and hang out I would disagree with you strongly because I think they all get high they're just all falling asleep it's really hard to stay awake yeah but if if if they leave and fall asleep somewhere else is he still going to bother you yeah it's it's a good question unanswerable question but anyways okay I think we've poked enough holes in this one should we go to winners and losers let's do it All right, winner.
01:07:34
Speaker
Schoolyard fights. We get some in the first movie at the start of the film. We get one here at the start of the film. Scott Derrickson has a very romantic way of remembering how school fights go because all of these are super like perfect punches and he's standing over him. and When in reality... He's crowded kids around him. If you've ever seen a school fight, like it's so messy.
01:07:54
Speaker
Nobody knows how to fight. none No punches are ever landing. they end very quickly and there's never a clear there's usually not a clear winner but this is just very Hollywood just like Boom.
01:08:07
Speaker
Don't ever do it again. And don't call me that. See ya. And what did he say? who Anybody else want some? Yeah. Anybody else want a piece of me? I think they were just trying to juxtapose to the first film where Finney's getting the crap out of him.
01:08:22
Speaker
And so anyways, Derrickson likes his schoolyard. Well, and then did you, since I just saw Black Phone, he quotes Robin. He says, the more blood, the better.
01:08:32
Speaker
It sends a that sends a message. That's right. That's right. I had Ethan Hawke as a winner because I am guessing he probably worked for approximately one day on this movie. yeah You hardly ever see his face.
01:08:44
Speaker
They likely hired some stunt double to pay him a 15th of the rate, the day rate. And they probably paid Ethan to do promotions. He's got voiceover work. Some voiceover work and and promotions. I'm not even sure if he's on set.
01:08:58
Speaker
In the flashbacks where it's back in the dreams. It's not him. It's not him. actor yet Somebody younger. which was That's what I'm saying. i i'm naughty i'm i one I wouldn't be surprised if his entire production was in a sound studio, like in a recording studio for maybe one or two days.
01:09:16
Speaker
So probably got paid bank. his He's still first build on this. ah he's the the reason you see the movie. This is a big win. I mean, you probably got paid a lot to do literally two days. Yeah.
01:09:28
Speaker
Yeah. so That's a good one. That's a good one. I like it. um My only other winner is the devil's lettuce, which is one of my favorite names for pot. So just the term, the term devil's lettuce.
01:09:39
Speaker
We got a lot of doobies. Wacky to backy. Like you said, like a kind of ambiguous, like don't smoke, but also going to confiscate that. Maybe I'm going to go smoke it later. Oh, and it's I don't rep plotline I don't think it's ambiguous at all.
01:09:53
Speaker
I think it's very straightforward the because the her the Gwen's big monologue. That's why I have weed as a loser in this movie, actually, is because Gwen's big monologue is that. Finn's biggest problem is that rather than facing what he dealt with in the first movie, he just smokes pot and numbs himself. And like pot is the symbol of, of escaping your problems and not confronting things. And I, I thought it was a very dare, the organization mantra of like, don't do drugs. yesa Yeah.
01:10:24
Speaker
So look, I'm not saying that you shouldn't smoke pot. I just don't think it's as evil as Gwyneth thinks it is. Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, any other winners before we moved to losers? I had Christians saying the F bomb as winners here. A lot of Christians just drop an F bombs all over the place.
01:10:42
Speaker
Good for them. They, they, they are multidimensional. They contain multitudes. They're complex, complicated people. Good, good for the church.
Reflections on Religion and Symbolism in Film
01:10:49
Speaker
I think you've gone like to anti Christian here on the pod. We're like, it's a winner. I'm saying it's a, that's a winner.
01:10:57
Speaker
How is it? How is it anti? I'm saying Rick, Rick, I'll pray for you. I'm going to pray for you. Thank you. Yeah. So, well, Psalm 6, 8 says, ah you can't say the F word. And but I also said, you just love your neighbor or something like that. Okay. Winner.
01:11:15
Speaker
Since we haven't covered the first episode yet, it'd probably more fitting. Sorry, the first film yet. It'd probably more fitting there. But I got to bring this up. Black balloons. I don't know who... What occasion are you buying black balloons for?
01:11:28
Speaker
This really isn't doing them any justice either. Maybe you black balloon don't ease me. Maybe like a high school or college graduation if your school color is black. But outside of that, that's really all I can think of.
01:11:39
Speaker
And this film does it no justice. Yeah, little goo-goo, little goo-goo dolls. This is the only black balloon for me. Oh, so good.
01:11:52
Speaker
ah love that balloon. But yeah, I mean, this film's not doing black balloons any justice. I thought the first one did black balloons very well. but Well, I mean, it's a calling card for when he's abducting kids.
01:12:03
Speaker
Yes, I just think it was creepy. It just doesn't paint them in a positive light. Oh, I see. think black balloon sales are not really bolstered. Yeah. Are not really bolstered by these films. They probably saw a dip. um Okay, loser.
01:12:17
Speaker
I had... The sisters try hard quotes. The try hard extreme insult quotes. I wrote every single up one of them down. dialogue Oh, okay. Oh, I wrote them down, Trav.
01:12:31
Speaker
All right, already mentioned the first one. Jizzmopper. yeah The second one, fuck off, slap fuck. The next one, rotting shit stain.
01:12:43
Speaker
The next one, sanctimonious twat. judgmental cunt wagon, grievous festering ass wound, and fuck you with a dinosaur dick.
01:12:56
Speaker
You know, I'm kind of coming around on some of those. Those are original enough for after going through the, like the, Okay, you know this is point. really cliche, like choice, mark. This is my point.
01:13:06
Speaker
But Trav, this is my point. Yes. we've been We've been harping on the screenwriting a little bit. These words are very well written. Stephen King-esque even.
01:13:17
Speaker
How does she mess up the delivery so much that in my audience screening, ah all these names that she used got a grand total of zero laughs? Yeah. Nobody laughed at these deliveries, these line deliveries at all. I'm like, how how do you say judgmental cunt wagon without anybody cracking a smile?
01:13:35
Speaker
I don't know. So the the writing is great. I thought these were really creative insults. but You're putting it at the feet of Madeline McGraw. Yeah. i'm Sorry, Madeline. yeah Yeah, I think you're right.
01:13:49
Speaker
It's tough to say is this winner loser, but I'm going to say loser based on the fallout, so to speak. But are you familiar with Rocky Flats at all?
Character Arcs and Historical References
01:13:59
Speaker
rocky flats this is a very colorado thing that derrickson pays tribute to in the movie uh don't is that the is was the dad wearing a shirt that said rocky flats yep so i did not if this is the first film i missed it but yeah jeremy davies character the dad works for rocky flats when he drives the snowplow in near the end of the film the truck is also part of rocky flats you you see the branding i'd never realized that rocky flats is um
01:14:27
Speaker
like a nuclear testing site. I think they're like fabricating plutonium. Okay. It's here just outside the Denver Metro. i mean, honestly, just a few miles from where I grew up, um maybe like 20 miles or so. It says it was, it's no longer there. It was, it was shut down in the early nineties. So being a period piece, this is very apropos to, to include it there and as a big employer, but it's also, um it's just very funny because again, fabricating plutonium, there is, even though,
01:14:56
Speaker
they do their best to keep it safe back then. This is where there is no development still in Colorado because you don't want to build homes right above that soil. And it's, you know, big real estate, but I always have to make my blog. They've started to build some subdivisions. It's been long enough, like right up next to it.
01:15:11
Speaker
and And I actually toured some new builds around here a few years ago. That's so funny because like the open space they back up to, which is like directly over it. Mm-hmm. it's a few square miles and you can see like signs on the trail system and stuff. You can walk there being like, please don't let your dogs dig in the dirt, ah which just scares the hell out of me to be like, okay, this clearly doesn't sound too safe. It's going to be underneath there.
01:15:34
Speaker
oh That's crazy. so Whether it's a winner or a loser, I guess so to call it off to find maybe I should have put it in our deep cuts new award. um i I had to call it out because I was like, whoa, this is Colorado history. If he's,
01:15:46
Speaker
if he's bringing up Rocky flats there, he's from Denver. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, i mean i as a Denver guy, Trav, I would, I would hope you would bring up some Denver. Yeah. I, it was just cool to actually have like legitimate Colorado references in here for, for the few of us who are, Dixon fans and also live here.
01:16:05
Speaker
He, uh, from your hometown in Denver graduated from my dad's alma mater where he got a doctorate at Biola university. oh is that so of and then for yeah and then got his graduate studies degree at usc which is where my brother went so really just connected all throughout like about him lose it you have any other losers another loser i had was the volume set they used for the backdrop of the payphone it just looked so much like a set it just was like we're not we're not oh yeah the one at the camp with like the lake in the background yeah lake man shoot the
01:16:40
Speaker
I also look like a very awkward place for pay phone. Yes. Right? Because, like, again, you those have to be wired in. You have to have electricity to a phone in a phone line. So you likely we would have it on the side of ah oh yeah cabin or a building that already has electric.
01:16:56
Speaker
You wouldn't just have a freestanding one. we'll get We'll get Mustang on it. Hey, shout out to Mustang, by the way. ah Namesake of our alma mater's mascot, Mustang. Yeah. Yeah.
01:17:07
Speaker
pony up Mustang she was hot see yeah I thought her character might have a more yeah do more or maybe there'd be like a funny relationship like there oh you Travis you mean like do anything yeah except like clean the grounds yeah again just interesting I guess you just need more people at the camp yeah um yeah shout oh oh okay actually I do have one other I don't know if this win or lose or dole nine gonna put this in your camp i don't if you remember Black Phone 1, but the dad is incredibly abusive. like
01:17:43
Speaker
Yes. like But he was an alcoholic, and now he's recovering. It's been three years since he's touched a drink. Okay. Yeah, I guess I guess people people got people can change. and People. Yeah, you you got to give people grace and allow them to make change for the better. You can't hold it against them forever. Well, you know, you got acting classes after you got sober too.
01:18:03
Speaker
Yeah, I I used to really like Jeremy Davies. Like he was he was really bad. Okay. but I know we didn't want to be overly critical, but there's like the, now that we're in spoilers, there's the really intimate moment or supposed to be intimate moment between the family members when he shows up at the camp and Madeline McGraw, Gwen has just found out that their mom did not in fact but suicide so she shares this with him and that acting scene between the three of them like that was not hard to watch they're never in the same wait she's right and she's like i know exactly what she's or you said when you've discovered her body and he's like how is she's like well it's because you said this and we were asleep and so you there's no way you could know that i knew you said that i was like man this could have been like a two-minute scene why is it that it's
01:18:52
Speaker
That set piece was bad, man. it It made me wish she was just like, dad, there's something I need to tell you about mom. Yes. Cut to the next scene. Yes. Like I didn't need to see the interaction. yeah agree Like we would have known what she would have told him. Cause like God gets lost in the sauce sometimes, man. Yeah. It was painful watching them play that out. But anyways, okay.
01:19:10
Speaker
what well who won the movie you want to go to scream king us because we're not in it anymore i i'm glad i watched it i won't re-watch i'm glad i watched it we are students of the game trap we got to read every book um i put ethan hawk because he again worked probably one or two days it's got a lot credit for doing very little franchise and even in a movie i don't like as much i still think his if it's really him, who cares?
01:19:38
Speaker
But the character he is playing, the mask, his voice, it's a great performance. I just think he's a good villain. And I will likely return to the first one probably pretty soon because you see more of him. And I just, yeah, I like Ethan Hunt.
01:19:53
Speaker
So we've done people. I think we've always done people. We've never done concept. I want to go with concept this one. And I want to go with the eight millimeter film o because that was probably the most redeeming part of the movie.
01:20:03
Speaker
And it made me say, if Derrickson wants to like, you know, just completely retcon this make a black phone three, which is shooting it exact same way, i would still go see it because that was like really interesting and cool to see.
01:20:14
Speaker
I'll go with that. I'll go with eight millimeter. All right. So we got our first non person ah winner here. I don't think sensitive date concept before. um um Awesome.
01:20:27
Speaker
Well, I think that's it. Anything? Any final thoughts on this movie? I know we're being critical. It's still good. There are there are worse horror movies for sure. And i i still like this. I still recommend if you like the original, go see it.
01:20:41
Speaker
I just think I've seen better horror films from Derrickson. I think the original Black Phone was a better film. And I think some of our other 2025 new releases are superior this one as well. Well, I'll take this as opportunity to tell you that I saw finally one that you've been recommending for a while, Ugly Stepsister, and I loved Yes.
01:20:58
Speaker
yeah Yeah. That's a great 2025. That's a deeper cut if you if you want to go watch that. Fun take on ah Cinderella. Yep. Great movie. All right. um Yeah, so next next week is Halloween or is the week
Upcoming Episodes and Teasers
01:21:12
Speaker
of Halloween. So we will have our watch along.
01:21:15
Speaker
ah You can watch the Halloween 1978 original movie with us as we provide our voiceover. Very serious commentary. Who cares about what John Carpenter thinks about his own film?
01:21:27
Speaker
You watch that film, you listen to Rick and I talk about how we feel while you're watching it. We've seen enough John Carpenter movies that we know he would say anyways. So there's that. And then that would be followed up by our real episode coming out the same day on Halloween.
01:21:41
Speaker
And I feel we can finally say who it is. It's ah yeah an old film professor of mine named Dr. Rick Orland who taught at Travis and I's alma mater, SMU, and wrote a book called The Horror Film, which I read parts of every year and he was a fun guest and I think you guys should listen to it he's a great guest he's a guest with real bona fides and it's a really fun conversation so definitely join us again next week thank you guys for listening as always subscribe to our podcast, wherever you listen, follow us on socials and we're getting there. We're we're halfway through spooky season, baby, but we got a few fun tricks left in our bag here. Yeah, we do. So but should we, should we say what's coming out in mid if we have to tease it, we have to tell them what's coming out with, with the, our mini episode.
01:22:28
Speaker
Oh yes. And we'll, well, yeah, I guess one of those 20 seconds, I have recorded already, but we'll release after the fact. Um, My two older daughters joined me to watch Nightmare Before Christmas and we get their takes on that film, which will be if these hour and a half long episodes are running way too long, don't worry.
01:22:48
Speaker
I do not think that episode will even be 10 minutes long. It'll be a fun little lesson. Wesley and Margo, both of them. Yes, yes. Gemma was asleep. I won't say who. I'll tease it so you have to listen.
01:23:00
Speaker
But one of my girls decides like three minutes in to just storm out and doesn't want anything to do with the recording anymore. So that it goes from ah all three of us chatting to just a nice one-on-one conversation. Can't wait to hear the drama.
01:23:11
Speaker
Yes. So yeah, that comes out the 22nd, a little mini episode for for a way to say happy Halloween from us to you guys. Awesome, guys. Well, thank you for listening. We'll see you next week.
01:23:24
Speaker
Bye-bye.
01:23:38
Speaker
So I don't think I was like ham. yeah I wasn't like a. Should we say ham fisted again? much I didn't say it. I didn't say it. Well, it wouldn't have made sense in that sentence either at all. You were starting to say it. I was just trying to fill in the blank.