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The Conjuring (2013)
30 Plays11 hours ago
Grab your rosary and an Nalgene bottle of holy water, we are kicking off a hecka new Franchise Series on THE CONJURING, that we have colloquially dubbed “If This Is Wrong, We Don’t Wanna Be Rite!” This dang week we begin with James Wan’s 2013 original, before working our way through the 2016 sequel next week 8/24, followed by the 3rd film from 2021 on 8/31, and finishing with the upcoming 4th and final (?) entry, THE CONJURING: LAST RITES releasing in theatres 9/5.
In this gosh darn episode Ricky develops a mysterious rash, Travis becomes a believer, and we have a special guest. God Bless all of you Scary Heads!
Shout out to the following sources that helped us with research for this episode:
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Transcript
Podcast Milestone Celebration
00:00:22
Speaker
scares us just thinking about it. When you hear it, you're gonna think we're insane. Try us, please, from the start.
00:00:42
Speaker
All right, we're back. Rick, how are we doing? Um, we're hanging in there. Yeah. Well, I know we have a little bit we want to share about you personally, but before we do, some exciting news for our little podcast here.
00:00:59
Speaker
um Our last episode was our 10th movie. We covered weapons, but that is our first episode to eclipse. And within less than four days, eclipse over 100 listens. So that's pretty exciting to Thanks.
Success of 'Weapons' and Future Plans
00:01:11
Speaker
Thanks for the scary heads who are tuning in.
00:01:14
Speaker
We appreciate you. so I don't think we expect, we we have a little growth plan. you know we We talk strategy, even though this is a little fun thing. But I don't think we anticipated getting to 100 within the first week of any of our episodes, at least in the first 20.
00:01:27
Speaker
So yeah, pretty cool. think our growth plan is very grassroots. but rock fli is like Post memes on Instagram and tell people to subscribe. We're like, we need more than one post a week. We need to think about adding a second Instagram post.
00:01:43
Speaker
I still want to know. I still want the one listener out of Council Bluffs Iowa to reach out. I don't know why know they listen to every single one. if you're If you're hearing this, just drop us a note like on our Instagram, sit identifying yourself so we can- ah And you can you can make a burner account too if you don't want us to know who you are.
00:02:01
Speaker
Yeah, so that's exciting. That's exciting. and Weapons is ah you know a little follow-up. It did over what we predicted for opening weekend. I think it was almost at $43 million for its domestic opening weekend.
00:02:12
Speaker
um and it's It killed. yeah it's It's all the rage. and and ah Warner Brothers, they're sixth in a row $40 million dollar opener back-to-back-to-back. Never been done before in... ah in the world of movies.
00:02:28
Speaker
So that was a new release. We are actually going to switch gears this week. We're going to cover franchise. we're going to do multiple sequential films building up to new release. And that franchise is going to be The Conjuring. So with the direct films there, this should be fun. But we are moving off the new release schedule. So hopefully people still tune in and listen to this episode. but it's It's all the lead up to a new release. So it's, you know, you should still do your homework before The Last Rites. The final Conjuring movie ever, right?
00:02:56
Speaker
They're not going make more after this. It's the last rights. the yeah The highest grossing horror franchise of all time. But we'll get more into that. Rick, tell me a bit about how you
Rick's Mysterious Illness and Paranormal Parallels
00:03:07
Speaker
are doing. because We're watching a movie and we're talking about a movie today about possession. And sometimes you might see some side effects related to that.
00:03:14
Speaker
Physically, what's going on with you? Well, as you can see, i still have my hospital wristband on my right hand. As I can see. As you can see. So this is from last night. Yeah, I was in the hospital last night for about ah four or five hours.
00:03:32
Speaker
This all stems. What night? We watched the conjure on the same night, Travis. What was that? Was that Sunday night? I think I watched it Monday. No, because we were going to record on Monday. I think I watched it Sunday. You're right. It was Sunday.
00:03:46
Speaker
Okay. So we both watch it separately in our respective States in, uh, on Sunday. Um, we were going to pod on Monday Monday evening while I'm still at work, I'm working on a commercial for a ah video game ah franchise.
00:04:07
Speaker
And I noticed I had a bunch of bug bites on my arms and legs both, but on my left leg in particular, um there was like like a bruise or an abrasion or something. And and Trav, I sent you a picture, not thinking it was anything, but what did I say when I texted you?
00:04:23
Speaker
Well, we thought it was crazy because we' we're watching a movie where this early onset signs of possession, or maybe it's just infestation at that point, were ah bruising. and this is the infestations phase for sure. And bruises that were unexplainable, like where did these come from? So that's why we thought it was funny when you were sending it to me.
00:04:40
Speaker
Well, looking back, it seems I mocked Satan and Satan doesn't like to be mocked because I said, have this bruise slash abrasion that I don't know where it came from, dot, dot, dot. dot dot And then you sent a gif of a of Bathsheba on the wardrobe, which is the most frightening gif you've ever sent.
00:04:56
Speaker
um We did not end up potting that night for different reasons. But the following day, I woke up to a leg that that little spot turned into yellow bubbles. It looked like my my body was burning.
00:05:13
Speaker
It looked like Toxic Avenger. It looked like... Like someone poured acid on you from what I've seen, the reaction to acid movies. It almost looked like too cliche. It's like, oh, that's like makeup. That's FX super... like So then i still... i I tell my my my producing team, i'm like, hey, I need to go get this checked out. They're like, what do you mean? And I send them a picture like, okay, get the hell out of here. like Go to the doctor now.
00:05:36
Speaker
My doctor is not two phased he's like yeah i don't know what kind of bug it was his exact words were when i was like hey is this a spider mosquito or what he's like um i'm not a zoologist i was like well okay fair got a point there doc and um as far as you could tell it just it was a bug bite that got infected and it hurt and but like he said you could still you could still work you know just bandage it up here's some antibiotics here's some ointment whatever Continue working that day.
00:06:08
Speaker
Everybody on set is like wanting to know more about where the spider is. And it's like when reality, I think it's like an ant or something, but I feel like spider bite might be right from what I've seen from like recluse bites and stuff like that.
00:06:20
Speaker
So um that was the second day. Then Wednesday, yesterday, I wake up. to a leg that doesn't look like it should be even a leg. It is now spread. The boils and ooze and pus filled, it's just weeping everywhere. Then I have another one on my right leg smaller,
00:06:41
Speaker
that is smaller one under my thigh and then a small one on my left arm. So this stuff has fucking spread throughout my body. And I'm sitting here thinking, all right, I need to see this doctor said to call him within 48 hours if something gets worse or if I get a fever. I didn't have a fever, but this felt worse.
00:07:00
Speaker
So I call my doctor and I explain and they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, do you got long sleeve pants and long sleeve shirt? I was like, or I said, no, I have shorts on. I said, go to Walmart, put some of those on and then get back to work.
00:07:13
Speaker
I feel like they were more concerned about how unsightly it looked just to be like, save everyone else's eyeballs. Like you're fine. Hide my shame. I looked, it's like, it looked worse than like grayscale from game of Thrones. Yeah.
00:07:25
Speaker
And um'm even though as I'm joking about this right now, Trav, I'm going to jump ahead a little bit. They still don't know why it's spreading. Okay. I just want to make that clear. Every single medical professional that has looked at my shit right now, their eyes get bigger than half dollars.
00:07:39
Speaker
And they'll say they know that the initial infection looks like cellulitis and they're all confident about that. And they can throw all these medical terms out, but then they go, I'm confused on why it's on your other leg too.
00:07:52
Speaker
So, uh, I, I, have you washed your bed sheets since this happened? That's too personal of a question. Okay. Oh no. Have you not? If you're getting bit, it's probably in the middle of the night. Dude, there's been no time.
00:08:04
Speaker
I've been, I've been going to doctor's visits. Tell your doctor's desk. I think I just diagnosed why you keep having poor bites appear. Okay. No, I've washed my bed sheets in general, but during this, at these episodes, no, I haven't.
00:08:17
Speaker
All right, so listen. So I'm trying to finish out this job, like tough it it tough it out, whatever. By the end of the day, I'm limping, okay? Because I set a doctor's appointment for the 2 p.m. the next day. They don't want to see me that day. They're like, dude, just the antibiotics probably haven't worked yet.
00:08:32
Speaker
But I'm sitting here thinking like I'm melting. Like I'm not doing too hot. I basically get peer pressured from the rest of the crew who's like, dude, you need to like leave. Like you need to leave. like I'm oozing.
00:08:44
Speaker
I'm like leaving trails of ooze. i'm like doing um like Have you seen you know no ah No Country for Old Men where Anton Chigurh steals all the cotton swabs and like the gauze rolls and stuff? Yeah, going to self-medicate.
00:08:56
Speaker
That's me probably every two hours in the in a bathroom or in my van just like wrapping myself up and like... just doing my best to survive. So I'm like, okay, there's an urgent care that's closing at like 8pm and it's seven. So I go over there.
00:09:11
Speaker
I can walk in. The doctor comes in and he like pretty much does as this is 180 180 and leaves. He's just like, okay, you need to go to the hospital. I'm writing you a referral right now and leaves. And his nurse practitioner comes in.
00:09:24
Speaker
She can't hide her fear in her face. And so they just send me to the hospital, Medical City, Dallas. And again, this doctor comes in too. And he's like, yeah, this looks like cellulitis, but I don't know why it's on your other leg.
00:09:39
Speaker
So I'm now on more antibiotics. I'm taking Benadryl. it It costs a lot of money to keep dressing these wounds because it's three of my four limbs and it pretty much takes up a whole roll each time I do it. So it's not cheap.
00:09:52
Speaker
We should probably consider starting a Patreon account or something because... Defund your gauze purchases. I know we can make more money doing this than probably OnlyFans. Especially right now. I would be the worst OnlyFans model in the Unless people have a boil kink. um Wait, Trav, since you haven't seen this one yet, this is what ah this was the new development this morning. I want you to describe to listeners what I'm showing you. You ready?
00:10:14
Speaker
This is what I woke up to. Oh, no. So it's a new spot now on your ankle. Yeah, but look how big that is. Yeah, dude. Describe it.
00:10:25
Speaker
i I'm not going to describe it. What I'm going to say is if you're noticing these when you wake up, I would very adamantly change your betting out. Okay, I'm going to change the betting. That's separate issue. That's a separate issue.
00:10:39
Speaker
There are no more bugs. I think these might be very related. All right. ah Anyways, this is the Sunday Scaries. I'm Travis Telerik. Wait, are we done with my leg stuff?
00:10:50
Speaker
it's For over 10 minutes? We got to go on the road. going to cut at least five of that. I know it. I think it was good. You don't have any more follow-up questions? Take shock reactions?
00:11:01
Speaker
but Well, i've been I've been monitoring the situation here in real time with you day to day since Monday. I did have a question for you, though. Yes. yeah That one time that I almost didn't make it to Mexico as because i didn't have a passport, you had a passport guy you were going to call.
00:11:17
Speaker
I don't have a bug bite or demonologist guy, depending on what is causing your lesions there. I do have a good cleaning crew though. So again, I think that- Okay.
00:11:28
Speaker
this is Now I'm going to be known as like dirty guy on this podcast. This sucks. This not where I thought this would be going. Well, I just, I can't believe that you hadn't changed the bedding yet. That seems like such an obvious first thing only happened on Monday, and I've been on i've been on a film set like 12 hours a day or at the hospital. So there's like no time to do anything. This is the first day off.
Exploring 'The Conjuring' Series
00:11:49
Speaker
I promise you and my listeners when I get off this pod, I will watch the sheets. I have some extras I can use. All right. But here's my take. Here's my take. Here's my take. I waltzed into this franchise with not a lot of respect for the supernatural, for Satan, stuff that I don't really think is real.
00:12:06
Speaker
And I was very like just brash about I'm going to watch this alone in the dark in a big old house. And I don't care. It's not that scary. Fuck you. And I'm not saying I'm a full fledged believer now, but let's just say this this feels a bit vengeful.
00:12:25
Speaker
The timing is ah more than ironic, I would say, that we're covering The Conjuring and this happened. Which is a nice transition to this is the Sunday Scaries.
00:12:36
Speaker
I'm Travis Telerik. I'm Ricky Townsend. We are covering, like we hinted at, The Conjuring today. um So we're covering the 2013 film today, but for each of the next few weeks, we are going to do this, The Conjuring 2, The Conjuring The Devil Made Me Do It, all leading up to the fourth and what is said to be final installment of the franchise, The Conjuring Last Rites.
00:12:59
Speaker
There are other films in The Conjuring universe as well, which I'm sure we'll reference anecdotally here, but um for the purpose of our pod, we're just covering kind of the main, we're we're not looking at side streets. We're really just looking at the the through fairs here.
00:13:13
Speaker
I think we should call this like a franchise ramp up or something. We should have a name for any time we do one of these like franchise homework leading up to a new release because I love doing these because the movies are already in the discourse. I'm already seeing people ranking their favorite Conjuring movies or putting up like the real cases next to the Conjuring movie. So The buzz is starting and we're happy to be part of it.
00:13:33
Speaker
So I saw this movie back when it released. This is kind of sweet. Oh, you saw it in the adolescence. Yeah. And 20. Oh, OK. I only saw it like a couple of years ago for the first time. Oh, really? OK, well, um now we're both rewatching it to get ready for this podcast.
00:13:49
Speaker
It is. I have not seen it since it released. So it's been over a decade. um what Do you remember? Do you remember the theatrical experience? scary who you were with or the i think i've told you before the early 2010s had a slew of really scary films in fact i'd even go a little earlier leading all the way back to i think it was 2008 with paranormal activity like starting insidious sinister yep a lot of james wan films um other directors as well had a lot a lot of jump scare oriented films, I'd say. Also, they crap i leaned into religious horror like yeah The Last Exorcist of Millie Rose.
00:14:26
Speaker
Yeah. the ah The autopsy of Jane Doe. The Conjuring, like I think ah haunting in Connecticut. Yeah. conunt and So do you do you remember where you when you walked out because we we, you know, on our ring episode, we talked a lot about how, you know, that frightened ah or at least me. Sorry. In theaters, that's like a very memorable moment. Do you remember you had been like 23?
00:14:46
Speaker
Do you remember being like, oh shit, this is scary? Or were you like, this is just good? like What was your reaction? i think I was a little less impressionable by my early 20s, or maybe put it another way, it's a I could leave a theater after being scared and recover a little better where movies that came out in the early 2000s in my teenage years, like The Ring like The Descent, those scared the crap out of me where I was not okay for like multiple days afterwards. So this one, I remember being truly scary theater experience, but one I was able to kind of wash my hands of afterwards.
00:15:20
Speaker
um and And watching it again today, again with it being over a decade, and this is what I want to get into, It has some really scary moments. I think James Wan, and we'll talk about him a lot more. He is very clinical and very good at knowing how to get a reaction out of his audience and and put scares in there that really make you cover your eyes, cover your ears a little bit and and jump So i my my first time seeing this was in October of 2020.
00:15:48
Speaker
So I got Letterboxd in 2019. So i i any movie I've seen since then, I kind of know the dates. ah And it was a it was in the you know still in pandemic land. So ah me and um my my ah girlfriend at the time, Jenna, we went to go see it at the drive-in.
00:16:07
Speaker
um this big open field near my apartment. Do you remember, did you ever see in the news, Travis, the Leaning Tower of Dallas when that like building that did not get fully demolished? So was just like sitting sideways. No.
00:16:20
Speaker
Oh yeah. So like it became like this cultural ah like icon for a few weeks. It was just like this Leaning Tower and everybody would take pictures of it. And like, I have videos of like literally hundreds of people all doing the Leaning Tower of Pizza. Like,
00:16:34
Speaker
hand motion and anyways, weird COVID times. But what they did, i don't know if this is because of that. And like they wanted to capitalize on the popularity, they made a little drive in movie theater. And I remember being a little disappointed in the movie, ah not that scared, um recognizing their scary moments.
00:16:53
Speaker
But what I chalked up in my in reading my old review, because the screen was so far away, ah I didn't feel as trapped in the movie as they were. So I didn't feel like close to danger.
00:17:05
Speaker
So this time watching it in a house by myself on a bigger TV, It's a scary movie. Oh yeah. Like it's, and I'm not even saying I believe in the half the stuff they're talking about.
00:17:17
Speaker
Watch. I say this, I'm a boils going to pop up. my cheek Um, but I get why, uh, why it has stayed this test of time. And I understand why it's going to billion dollar franchise. And yeah, well, I, I want to get into a lot of production stuff because there's so much to say with this film and the franchise overall and James Wan, but more succinctly and before we do, like,
00:17:39
Speaker
Do you like it? Like where, where does it sit, especially now rewatching it kind of in your overall rankings or tiers of horror films of all time? Um, it's like upper middle, like it's like a solid movie. Like if you, it's a good like intro to horror film to show somebody, I think too, yeah it captures a lot of the tropes and pacing in a way that doesn't feel too tired.
00:18:04
Speaker
It's very confident. It's a very confident movie. Um, I am tickled a bit by like the Catholic power behind these movies. Like, um, and I, I, I do the the way I kind of see them. And I, I guess them, I've only seen the first one. We'll, we'll be having this journey together. Cause I know you have not seen the other ones either. I've not. Yeah.
00:18:26
Speaker
But, I feel like it's kind of like the Avengers for the paranormal or like the Avengers for exorcists because they're walking into these cases like talking as if the devil is this very familiar subject that everybody's like, yeah, you know, you can't have that over there because it's going to piss them off about the Trinity. Like, well, are you kids baptized? okay that's going to be difficult. It's like there's so.
00:18:49
Speaker
There's subject matter experts, which is different for horror films. They talk about it so casually. Oh, yeah. Yes. Travis, what you just said, and I know you're just asking about my opinion on the film itself, but what you just said is pretty – something I thought about after I watched it, which is it is very rare to have your two leads be these – supernatural experts where they're not shook really by anything.
00:19:12
Speaker
and it it is a little, it almost feels too fake. It's like, oh, they just happen to know what all this shit is. But it's also fun because you're along this ride with them. They're like another version of the Ghostbusters.
00:19:24
Speaker
Yeah, it's ah it's a different lens where they come in usually with a lot of confidence, obviously to have some plot conflict. They're not always certain how to solve it, but they're they're also approaching it.
00:19:35
Speaker
yeah Most scary movies you watch, especially with the supernatural, people are always like failing to comprehend what's going on and like, what the hell is this? And here's one where, you know, they get called in and they're like, oh, well, we'll tell you what's going on. Like, literally teach on this. The way they talk about exorcisms and ghosts in this movie and demons is so just like blue collar handyman. Like, like, it's like a contractor walking to your house being like, yeah, that's load bearing. Yeah, looking at a full tear out there. Yeah.
00:20:06
Speaker
You know, it's not up to code. in In their case, you know, it's more like, yeah, you're going to portal seal or you're going to need a double layer of salt. Yep. yeah They're making fun of the Trinity there. So that's pretty textbook possession.
00:20:23
Speaker
Yeah. Now you said your kids are baptized. No. All right. Just more paperwork there. Vatican's real busy. It's just, it's, it's like a common, it's like shorthand that they're using as if this is a real thing. and It's, yeah and and we'll get into the real, I mean, you know, yeah the real Warrens,
00:20:39
Speaker
seem to be hucksters. They seem to be grifters. Yeah. From what I've read. But people at least exuded a sense of confidence with what they were doing, which is what the movie captures, whether it was real or not, what they were practicing is ah is a different story. But yeah. The synopsis, by the way, or the log line.
00:20:55
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. um Paranormal investigators, Ed and Lorraine Warren, worked to help a family terrorized by a dark presence in their farmhouse. Yeah, so my thoughts on the film. yeah Do you like it? Do you generally you enjoy it?
00:21:10
Speaker
yeah James Wan came on the scene and we we could talk about him. It's hard to keep everything really separate, but um Saw was his first feature film. And that is one of my favorite horror films of all time. I thought it's really well done. um I think I'm a lot higher on that film than even you are and many others.
00:21:28
Speaker
After that though, I feel like what we get in the Insidious franchise or this franchise, more specifically with this Conjuring movie, He gets really good, i'd say, in being very
00:21:40
Speaker
calculated or textbook for like, i am going to create a movie that will have some very tense moments and some really big jump scares. And he is an expert, one of the best ever do it.
00:21:52
Speaker
But the actual movie itself underlying it, I'm never as compelled by, right? There's no mystery. I think you go into these possession movies kind of knowing exactly how it's going to play out. like this is going to master He's a master of tone. Incidents. yeah Exactly. So he's really at tone. He's really good the scares.
00:22:08
Speaker
But the movie itself, I really like it. And it's still like my top 200 horror films of all time. But i think what keeps it from like my upper ranks, my Mount Rushmore horror movies is that ah you you kind of know where it's going the whole time. you don't and and hes trying to he's not trying to reinvent the wheel, but what he is he is taking the wheel in ah in ah in a really confident fun direction though.
00:22:31
Speaker
Yeah, so I'd agree with that. But it is good. And again, i'm I'm jumping a bit into production already, but this is the highest grossing horror franchise of all time.
James Wan's Career Shift
00:22:42
Speaker
So that's not just including the four Conjuring films. Well, I guess three that have only been released. Galastrides hasn't come out.
00:22:49
Speaker
But there is a spinoff trilogy for the Annabelle doll, as well as ah two movies now made for one of the characters, The Nun. I think that's a total of eight films to date.
00:23:00
Speaker
oh yes yeah they're either critic proof it doesn't matter which ones are received warm or cool like they they make a lot of money yeah so highest grossing horror franchise of all time worldwide gross to date is 2.2 billion dollars um which is pretty pretty crazy do you know what the number two horror movie franchise or horror franchise is after this i want i want to give i want i want to like at least three guesses um Well, I could just go for volume ah because Halloween has so many movies. Is it Halloween? it's not It's not Halloween, but there are a lot of movies with this franchise. um
00:23:36
Speaker
Then i would say it's not Texas Chainsaw because like ah some of those have some real financial duds. um Okay. Is it a slasher?
00:23:47
Speaker
No, it's not. It's probably my favorite horror franchise. If that gives you any indication. if I'm very high on all the movies in this franchise. Paranormal Activity? No.
00:24:00
Speaker
Give one more hint. I'm trying to think. There are still movies being made. In fact, one of them came out last year for this franchise.
00:24:13
Speaker
I don't know.
00:24:15
Speaker
Alien. Oh. Yeah. I'm seeing Alien has 1.7 billion worldwide gross today. on Hey, have you seen Alien Earth yet? No, I haven't. It just just came out on FX. um I watched the first 20 minutes last night, but then my Benadryl kicked in. I've been hearing really good things. is I'm excited to watch it. It is so good, Travis. like I'm just seeing the first 20, but you can tell from the first 20.
00:24:40
Speaker
that they are not trying to go a traditional route. And I don't mean just with the story, I mean with the storytelling. like There's like these funky flashbacks and there's these, like the the rhythm the the show takes is very sure-footed in just its like unique way of out. It just feels like a new progressive thinking show. I love it so far.
00:25:01
Speaker
I love Alien. vote We'll have to cover that franchise. You mentioned James Wan though, and I do want to say what what he does for this movie for me in terms of crafting that tonality is John Leonetti is the cinematographer here, Trav also the the first assistant camera of the poltergeist and also directed, um Annabelle and, and directed Annabelle. Yeah. DP. Oh, wow. Cool. But, uh, I liked Leonetti. He has, he, when we did our poltergeist pod, uh, he was one of the guys who I was able to pull up, uh,
00:25:36
Speaker
like a lot of quotes and like behind the scenes stuff from because he just does not give a shit about what he says. ah But him and Wands like sweeping, always moving, ah just like dancing camera in this movie is so great for what's what's otherwise pretty dour and like dark film.
00:25:59
Speaker
But the camera is just dancing. It's awesome. Let's talk a little more about James Wan. Guy wanted to share. he He comes out with Saw. That's his first big hit. But after that, he actually he gets a few duds. um he He has ah another horror movie, Dead Silence, does not do well.
00:26:14
Speaker
Like an action movie called ah Death Sentence. They both bomb. um So now we're fast forwarding all the way to 2011. He partners with a guy to produce named Jason Blum, who goes on to start Blumhouse.
00:26:28
Speaker
and had just released, I think Jason Blum had just produced the Paranormal Activity movies, um the first two. And so he worked with James Wan and they came out with Insidious, which was a big hit. And Patrick Wilson started that.
00:26:41
Speaker
And yes, and Patrick Wilson from The Conjuring was the lead in Insidious as well. Patrick Wilson is his guy, dude. He's even got him in his non-horror films. Which non-horror ones? Aquaman. Oh, yes, that's right.
00:26:53
Speaker
He plays Ocean Master and he's the brother. Yeah. So one one was kind of a return to form with Insidious. And then just two years later in 2013, he releases this movie, The Conjuring, which then leads again, the biggest commercial success for horror movies. And one starts really just printing money from there on out.
00:27:12
Speaker
Actually, later the same year, Insidious 2 came out as well. So 2013 because he's he's directed the the first two pairs of those two movies. he did conndjuine one Conjuring 1, Conjuring 2, Insidious 1, Insidious 2. He's been pretty involved as a producer in all the films from there on out because he's can he has his own production company now that is really involved with all the future Conjuring movies in the entire universe as well.
Controversies Surrounding the Warrens
00:27:35
Speaker
But hasn't done a horror film since except for Malignant. He has since pivoted to, you know, he did ah Fast and Furious 7. He did Aquaman. He's done a few non-horror films as well now. um Can we talk a bit about the how this movie got developed?
00:27:50
Speaker
Because I have some notes. Yeah. So I love this character. mean He's a real person, but to me, he's a character in the production story. Tony DeRosa Grund, former CEO of like the Archie Enterprise of those comics ah and just kind of dabbled in entertainment here and there, but kind of a sleazy guy for all intents and purposes in terms of how he runs business and stuff.
00:28:16
Speaker
um befriended in the ninety s the Warrens. So came across the Warrens and somehow ingratiated himself and with them. And um through that is able to purchase the rights to their case files.
00:28:31
Speaker
And i i just think it's funny how how the ah New Line Cinema got the rights because Tony DeRosa Grund, which what a name, first of all, ah he he reaches out to Phil Gordon, who is like a former heavyweight poker player.
00:28:51
Speaker
And is at that point, like the commentator on some Bravo series about poker. But Grund has an idea for a new poker show, a reality show. He tells Phil Gordon, hey, I have a deal with CBS and they're putting up all this money. They're going to pay you, you know, $200,000 a week after you sign on.
00:29:09
Speaker
And it's going to be you, Phil Gordon versus any schmuck um off the street. So it's going to be like the everyman versus Phil Gordon playing poker. For real money? For real money. So Gordon's like, hell yeah, I'm in. So he leaves Bravo, okay?
00:29:23
Speaker
And he's he's ah he signs this deal. Well, turns out Grund did not have any deal with CBS. He did the whole maneuver of like, he tells one party this and the other party that.
00:29:33
Speaker
But in this case, when he went back to CBS to say, hey, I feel Gordon. They're like, okay, we don't care. Like we got other shit we're doing. So he's like, fuck. So Gordon takes him to court and basically sues him into bankruptcy.
00:29:45
Speaker
And so he owes a lot of money to Gordon and other folks. um So he has to put up all his assets or most of them. And one of his most valuable assets was the Conjuring or sorry, the Warren case files.
00:29:58
Speaker
ah And so the Hollywood machine was aware of these treatments and these case files, but the asking price was too high. But now it's like, oh it's a fire sale.
00:30:10
Speaker
So New Line Cinema at the time um comes in buys the rights for like, pays a hundred, a hundred K to, um, to Tony. And then, um, a million bucks to like his, several of his companies for, and I don't know these legal terms, Trav, but that was for quick claim and producer loan out agreements.
00:30:29
Speaker
Um, but it included the conjuring treatment. So that's why Tony's listed as a producer. But he's ever since then, he's been a pain in everybody's ass because he keeps saying, oh, they stole my ideas and they didn't have the treatment. They they didn't have this specific treatment that I wrote.
00:30:43
Speaker
So maybe you can pick it up from there. Yeah, I mean, that's a good point. And a quick claim, good real estate term. That's where someone's transferring title like directly, but without looking back at the full chain of title to see if really the person who is transferring it really owns it And I think that applies here because that this one, this movie was involved in legal disputes after it released, where the author that, um I forget his name, but the warrants had originally sold the rights to specifically this case with the parent fair and family.
00:31:13
Speaker
um And he had already released a book. And so he sues them afterwards being like, hey, this is copyright infringement on my book I wrote. And so that was one that was settled outside of court. But um it's probably a nice lead to we need to jump around a bit, but if we're talking production, think this matters.
00:31:30
Speaker
Let's talk about the Warrens because Ed and Lorraine Warren, these are real people. Like you said, real case files. Hey, spoiler alert. They're definitely not as hot as Vera Farmiga and Patrick Wilson in real life. Let me just tell you, not as easy on the eyes.
00:31:43
Speaker
And so kind of early 70s is when they start to reach national attention. And like this movie portrays, the Perrin case was one of their first larger cases. And i I don't want to talk about all their cases too much just yet because a lot of the future Conjuring movies follow real case files.
00:32:02
Speaker
And I think it's important to note that Lorraine Warren was actually a consultant on these films. She was still living at least when the first one came out. Yeah, because Ed died in 2006. Yeah. Exactly. So Ed died prior to these movies coming out, but Lorraine was involved. She's actually, she has a brief cameo in the movie as well. She's like that. It's just sitting in the audience. She doesn't have a speaking line, but when Ed and Lorraine are teaching their university course, wherever that classroom is, she is sitting front row there.
00:32:30
Speaker
And so she had a consultant credit. um It's also worth noting, we get more into this because she was involved in she did have kind of an under contract with new line here are certain things.
00:32:41
Speaker
There are certain ways you can't portray us. And she was, sounds like going above and beyond to make sure they were not portrayed as, um criminals, people who have sexual relations with people they shouldn't.
00:32:55
Speaker
And there's two things going on with them. One, they were a bit of snake oil salesman. I think they're looked back on to day. As in a lot of their case files, um they lack any substantial evidence to actually prove any of their claims. And more so than that, um a lot their claims have i' been disproven, but they have made a lot of money and they made their entire career off of you know being involved with different poltergeists or They didn't even charge for their, quote, exorcism with services because they made all their money through their public persona, their museum of weird artifacts. Book deals, now movie deals. Yes, 100%. And so they are viewed negatively in that light.
00:33:38
Speaker
But since then, and actually since The Conjuring release, so after this movie came out and after... Ed Warren had passed away. More has come out specifically about him um having inappropriate sexual relationships with a minor, which dates way back to even before they were that famous. And so they are not looked upon as fondly to today, um at least relative to maybe when these movies were initially coming out. 1960, early 1960s, before they've hit the big time as fake demonologists.
00:34:09
Speaker
And before I say this story, I want to say that I was... tacitly aware or like somewhat aware that they had some baggage, but not full to the full extent. And now after knowing all this, after seeing the movie again, the only way that I'm going to be able to engage with these movies is just to like separate like Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga's characters are just, those are fictionalized like Warren's from a different multiverse. So 1960s, Ed Warren is a bus driver in his mid thirties.
00:34:40
Speaker
And befriends Judith Penny, who is 15 at the time. Yep. They then bring her into her home. And this is not conjecture. This is not allegations. This is like true. This has all been verified.
00:34:51
Speaker
She lives with them. ah And then this is the allegedly, because, you know, this is Judith Penny's on the record saying it's true because she announced she she made all these claims a few months after the film was released and made all this money. And she she was just like, hey, I don't mind you guys make these movies, but don't make these people in such a good light. Like have them be realistic because, because yeah, Ed Warren ah carried out a sexual relationship with his 15 year old, got her pregnant and then pressured her into an abortion.
00:35:24
Speaker
ah They said they gave her an ultimatum. They said, you can either say that you were raped and have the baby or you can get an abortion. And ah she chose abortion and she lived with them for 40 years. So she lived.
00:35:36
Speaker
This is a grooming situation where she was, you know, abused. And then after she turned 18, had this very odd relationship with this couple because Lorraine let it happen. And there's also allegations of physical abuse, too. She was knocked unconscious one or two times.
00:35:51
Speaker
Can I just say it It makes a lot more sense now why Lorraine ah Warren was so intent ah intent on having this clause in the contract that says, we need it precluded them from showing Ed or Elaine as having an affair, having sex with a minor, having any involvement with child pornography or sex workers, or as being guilty of sexual assault.
00:36:14
Speaker
Or any crimes, it sounded like. By the way, some people might say, oh, is this is this boilerplate language that's in a lot of these biography movies? No, an entertainment lawyer went on record on for The Hollywood Reporter or something was like, this is not boilerplate language. Like, this is very specific.
00:36:30
Speaker
Yeah, and it wasn't just them. a lot of it is with the families that they quote unquote helped during these haunting or possession activities where oftentimes they would negotiate deals for future book rights or film rights that heavily favored Warrens and left the families high and dry. So we'll get more into that with the different cases we cover here through this franchise.
00:36:50
Speaker
But in the interim, what I want to start with is this was a you know a very flattering look at the Warrens in this film where in real life, not Not great people. This is very fabricated.
00:37:02
Speaker
So I made a short list of my three favorite, most fabricated ah stories. As in, these are my... These are my favorite films because of the degree of fabrication that took place. there um there Wait, there there they're your favorite because of the fabrication? Because these are, quote unquote, based on real events. And then after the fact, it comes out that these are quite quite the stretch. but Number one would be our guy, Steven Spielberg, with his movie ah Catch Me If You Can, which I love because Frank Abagnale Jr.,
00:37:34
Speaker
is the ah Leonardo DiCaprio in that film is a con man, is a hot star. The film is about all his elaborate cons, and it comes out years after the release that most of those cons he fabricated never happened. But Spielberg himself got conned.
00:37:49
Speaker
Yeah, jokes at us for us thinking a con man going to tell a true story about his con stories in the first place. Yes. So that's that's number one. That's number two. This is more recent in the developments. It's not as extreme, but still crazy to think about was the film ah The Blind Side, where you get Sean and Leanne Tui, the Tui family, who said they took in Michael Moore, set you off the streets, raised him like their own son, and he goes on to become an NFL player.
00:38:16
Speaker
All-Star, one of the best left tackles in this in the NFL. And it comes out more recently that Michael Orr is saying, hey, this wasn't quite what they represented. like They put me in a conservatorship.
00:38:27
Speaker
I have seen no money from like the book deals, the movie rights and all that. And he's also just going on the record saying, like yeah the movie goes out of its way to make him look you know, like Forrest Gump, essentially, like very athletic, but not a lot going on mentally.
00:38:43
Speaker
And he's like, a off esteininstein he's like, I was a bit behind academically because I did have a great family relationship, but I'm not an idiot. hit Like that coming out over the last few years, he actually went back and like sued the Tui family for that. And so that's another one where maybe all the smiles and roses in the film weren't quite what they appear.
00:39:03
Speaker
And then a more dated one I love is the film Bloodsport, which you and I recently saw. um So this is Jean-Claude Van Damme's first movie. That one's so great because they they believed him so much that they put in the the end or the beginning. Like they mentioned all these things he did i mean in text. After the credits, it's like, here's all the things that really happened. I mean, all these films were taken very much at face value and they came out that they were not true. But this was about Frank Dux, who talked about his storied military career.
00:39:31
Speaker
Then he leaves to go to Hong Kong for a secretive tournament where they fight to the death called the Kumite. And since that, not only is the Kumite, this tournament in Hong Kong, not a real thing. There's no evidence of it.
00:39:43
Speaker
But Freak Ducks, Piercey wasn't even in the military to begin with. So like completely elaborated, completely falsified. It's an entertaining movie. It's very campy for 80s movie. deal with These people are just ahead of the game um of just a fake news. You know, like now it's now it's all in vogue.
00:40:01
Speaker
Anyways, The Conjuring is very scary, but a very falsified record of actual events. In fact, it even goes above and beyond what was in the books and the Warrens records for the sake of the film to make it even scarier. So they it's a few iterations, a few degrees of falsification where the movie itself is going above and beyond what Warren said. And what Warren said, i guarantee you, is above and beyond what actually happened.
00:40:26
Speaker
Other production notes. The MPAA on this film, um not that bloody of a movie since it's catering to Catholics or or Christians rather. Not too much profanity, sex, anything like that. um But it was so damn scary.
00:40:44
Speaker
They allude to sex. Mild allusion to sex. They say, let's christen the household. Yeah. Which kind of grossed me out. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah, so damn scary. The MPAA insisted it had to be rated R, which is crazy.
00:40:58
Speaker
like that's i mean, it is. real i But if you think about it, it really is, content-wise, a PG-13 movie. there's yeah There's no F-bombs. There's no gore.
00:41:08
Speaker
um There's talk of suicide. And there's scary images. I wonder if it's giving too much credence. i It's this whole, I think it's an American issue. I think in America, because ah Christianity and Catholicism is, we're so wrapped up in it that we give these religious horror movies more credence as if they could be real, or at least like as, as viewers. And so it's like, oh, it's scarier because it could be real.
00:41:38
Speaker
Yeah. touches It touches a nerve that you don't get with other types of horror movies. And that impacts the box office. I mean, honestly, probably would have done even better if they got that PG 13 rating. Yeah. But they must've calculated that they didn't want to,
00:41:51
Speaker
rock the boat because i believe every pecanjur movie is are now and so because you don't want backlash of like oh they sanitized it because so i'm curious how they how they made the other ones are do they just have patrick wilson just throwing a fuck somewhere like oh fucking demons out of this fucking house But NPA is like, all right, well, there it is.
00:42:14
Speaker
This was not even that scary, but he said fuck twice in the sentence. So it's kind of R. But yeah, what a great marketing tool, though. Rated R because too scary. Yeah, the controversy around it, I think, helps then draw more people to the theater. So it did benefit from that.
00:42:28
Speaker
um Two other minor production notes I had, but ones I had to share, especially this one. um The composer for this film, Joseph Beshara, He actually was the demon ah but bahiba in this film.
00:42:41
Speaker
But not only was he the demon in this film, he also worked with Juan on Insidious two years earlier. He was the demon in that movie. Then when they come back and do the Conjuring 2, he does the score again. He's the demon in that movie.
00:42:52
Speaker
So he's become Juan's go-to composer, but also stand in for like, yeah, man, you look pretty damn scary. We're going put some makeup on you and make you the demon in these films. I, so ah as great as he is as Bathsheba, the score in this is probably one of my favorite things about the movie.
00:43:09
Speaker
It's so urgent and in your face and like, and it's sweeping and they got strings. Like I, I love it. It's, And yeah it's probably one of the scarier elements of the movie because it's not trying to be creepy. It's just scary. It's loud.
00:43:26
Speaker
A good score. I think we talked about this last week on weapons. It can make or break a horror movie. And he definitely is making it scary. He is contributing to that by by providing a rock solid score here. um last note, which I thought you'd find interesting. I'm surprised you didn't bring up.
00:43:42
Speaker
They shot this whole film sequentially, which I don't know how often that's done, but they
Personal Supernatural Experiences
00:43:47
Speaker
actually started, wow which is weird for like the classroom scenes. If they're, if I'm to take that, they go back to literally, they have to go back to location to film like the next classroom scene.
00:43:56
Speaker
That's very rare. Especially for, i mean, I guess it was, it was a $20 million dollars movie. That was the budget. Even at that, even at that level, you're typically having to, you know,
00:44:07
Speaker
be as efficient and economic as possible. That's, ah that's interesting. I wonder why they, did they say why they did that? No, I, I didn't. They usually, usually they do it um for one of two reasons. One is to keep the actors being able to follow the progression of their, of their character. So in this case, Catherine's character, I'm sure assuming that'd be very important for her as she slowly descends into being possessed.
00:44:32
Speaker
The other reason is if they need to make changes to the script as they go along, like Yeah, that's what I was thinking. That one shouldn't have been needed as much for this one. No, it's such a simple script. Yeah, there's no surprises or anything like that. So, yeah.
00:44:49
Speaker
Yeah, okay. Interesting note, Trav. So, I think the Conjuring curse runs in the Townsend family because... The first night that I start watching Conjuring, I get a random bruise that then turns into a potentially life-threatening infection that still doctors don't know what it's all about.
00:45:10
Speaker
But ah on the line with us now is my younger brother, Benny Townsend out of Dana Point, California, who also has a Conjuring story. Benny, can you introduce yourself and say hello to our our second ever guest? Hello. Thanks for for having me on, Boyos.
00:45:27
Speaker
Great. Wait, was the first time you saw The Conjuring this week or last week? No, I saw it in 2020, but it was in a drive ah drive-in theater and it was kind of far away.
00:45:39
Speaker
So this time was my real first time engaged with the movie. And then, of course, um my skin starts melting. Yeah, I wish you could show pictures of what it looks like because it's disgusting. Well, I had an idea and we didn't do this when we were talking about my boils earlier. But Trav, I was going to say, if anybody actually is curious.
00:46:00
Speaker
now so No, don't. You can DM the Instagram account and i will send them to you. ah as long as you like and subscribe. i mean, I don't think that's a bad trade. Oh, man.
00:46:13
Speaker
you guys should do a You guys should do a show on the Mystery Men because you look like Pee Wee Herman as the fart guy that has boils all over his face. The pimples. no Thanks, man.
00:46:25
Speaker
That's the nicest thing I've heard during this whole medical emergency. Space in the body for radio. um um Yeah, when I... When did The Conjuring come out? It's 2013. Okay. when you and i were talking on the phone last night, I asked you, what's the scariest movie you've seen? And what were the two movies you said?
00:46:43
Speaker
ah Conjuring and The Ring. Yeah. Nice. We've hit them both now. Yep. Yeah. Which one do you find scarier? i think I think The Ring was the was the scarier for me at the time, because I saw it when I was really young. ah The Conjuring, i think, is scarier...
00:47:04
Speaker
like for real for me because I saw it when I was if it came out in 2013 I was I was a ah junior in college yeah so I think I think conjuring probably long term is the scarier one why do you find it scary um Probably because of what happened when I saw it.
00:47:23
Speaker
Well, what happened? It was a very frightening movie, very demonic, just like my my mom would say. um and And so when I went to see it, I saw it when it was in theaters, and i was visiting home from college.
00:47:39
Speaker
And when i got home, nobody was there because I think you were gone and mom and dad were out on a trip or something or out to dinner. I was alone. And when I, the way house was set up was you walk into like the entryway to the left is our living room. And to the right was like the kitchen.
00:48:00
Speaker
um To the living room, you have to, you kind of, when you walk into the living room, there's a huge, there was a huge tall ceiling in there. um And then a massive chandelier that was probably like,
00:48:12
Speaker
500 pounds or something like so yeah it was it was this like statement piece in the at the top of this tall ceiling and when I walked in the house um I turned the lights on and walked right right when I stepped my foot went oh into the threshold over into the living room This massive chandelier that's been there since as long as I can remember just shattered. Fell from the top of the ceiling down onto the table. Oh, yeah, because there's that marble table.
00:48:43
Speaker
Yeah, broke the table, shattered, glass everywhere, metal everywhere, and was probably like two feet away from me. So when I saw that, I was like, oh, fuck this. And then I turned around – closed the door, locked the door, left, went to my friend's house for the rest of the weekend, and then didn't come back home until I knew everybody was back home.
00:49:05
Speaker
And then I think when when I did get, I don't even know if I told dad what had happened, so he might've walked into it. Wait, you didn't tell dad that a chandelier fell? I don't remember. that no No, I had to have told him because i think I was so scared that like I was possessed. i probably He was probably the first guy I called because he's he he knows God pretty well.
00:49:24
Speaker
So he'd be the first person to help out in that situation. But um yeah, that was – so after that, i I mean I've never seen any more of the – Really?
00:49:36
Speaker
Oh, man. Yeah, I stopped after for that one. I was getting too close, too close for comfort. Do you guys believe in ghosts and or demons? I think I'm like ghost agnostic.
00:49:48
Speaker
I'm afraid if i if I willingly come out and say, no, I don't believe in them, then I'm next up on their list to be, to be possessed. And so i' goingnna you're going get a lesion your neck. never want to be that adamant.
00:49:59
Speaker
So i'm I'm like ghost curious, you know, like I think it could be outside. Benny, what's your, I know you waffle on this. So where are you at right now? Not so much ghosts that float around and boo you. but like No Caspers? um No Casper ghosts, no friendly ghosts. But demons? i mean, demonic stuff?
00:50:23
Speaker
I'm kind of on the fence. I mean, I could i could see some of that stuff happening. and I know... um I mean, it's it's hard to like prove, obviously, but I could...
00:50:34
Speaker
I don't know. Like I've had like sleep paralysis before. And like that feels like a demon. um But I don't know. So Trav, one of one of my dad's more infamous stories as a a man of the cloth or ah adjacent cloth, because he's a non-denominational Christian, is that a when he was a practicing psychologist, that one of his patients got possessed and he performed an exorcism to get them to get them.
00:51:01
Speaker
Your dad did. He's just like Ed Warren. cause he's He's like Ed Warren, except that he didn't he didn't have a relationship with a 15-year-old. Sorry, it's a bad comparison to draw. Just for the exorcism part. Well, he did when he was 15.
00:51:15
Speaker
Okay, Jesus Christ.
00:51:19
Speaker
So this patient walks in, and she's looking a little weird, and she's on his couch, and my dad notices something's off. And then she starts to like speak in low tones and her eyes go back of her head she's she's picks up a lamp, right, Ben?
00:51:37
Speaker
And she's like walking towards his desk and about to strike him with it. And he goes, in the name of Jesus Christ, tell me your name. And she was like, Bethuza, Lula, blah.
00:51:49
Speaker
But she kept coming towards him. And he's like, in the name of Jesus Christ, who else is in there? And it was like, Zibbity-doo-dah, like said another name. And then he did this like three or four times. there was like apparently four demons inside of her.
00:52:03
Speaker
And then ah the last time he does it, he's like, I cast you out. I cast you out. And then she just like flops onto the couch. And she wakes up and she's like, wait, what happened? He's like, well, you were possessed by several demonic entities. I carried out a exorcism. She's like, oh my gosh. um Okay, I think I need to go.
00:52:22
Speaker
And then Benny, tell tell Travis what happens at the end. As she was like leaving... She turned around and like gave him a look and smiled or something like, I'm still in here. i Like it a little evil smile.
00:52:38
Speaker
And then he never saw her again. Well, I'd hope so intentionally. Like if someone and one of my patients was about to attack me, I probably wouldn't work with them anymore after. yeah that's That's wild though. Did he like sprinkle some like holy water on her? I don't know all the bits of the exorcism. Does he have the little book?
00:52:58
Speaker
ah the the bible is a big book separate it's a it's a very large like a companion book though for for exorcisms like this stuff i think he was just rolling with what he had in the office like i don't think he was ready for it i think she kind of came out like a legal pad and just a nalgene dump some of that on her He's resourceful.
00:53:19
Speaker
Wow, that's crazy. that's i The trove of horror-related stories you guys have, I think, far surpasses anything i could think of, at least top of mind, other than where I share that I get night terrors and I occasionally wake up screaming in my sleep. But besides that, pretty normal guy. Pretty normal guy.
00:53:42
Speaker
I do think theres there's probably, as far as like the reality, whether they're real or not goes. I do think there's something with like the, the more,
00:53:54
Speaker
you're like exposed or like tend to try to believe in it. Like it shows up in a way, whether or not if you're looking. Yeah, exactly. Like, and we were, we were, you know, obviously raised very religious. So a lot of that stuff probably bled into our like day to day.
00:54:11
Speaker
um and then seeing these movies ties in with a lot of the stuff that we learned in church and like read about and all that. So, because in reality, The chandelier, probably just a coincidence.
00:54:24
Speaker
The house was shifting. i got bit by a bug and didn't, you know, scratched it and then didn't, as Travis said, didn't wash my sheets, I guess. And then dad's patient maybe just had some other issues.
00:54:37
Speaker
Maybe she had a little bit of, you know, multiple personality disorder or something. So I'm not fully, until I see it in front of me with like horns and fangs and it's like, I'm a demon. I'm going to get you. I'm just always going to assume it's something from this metaphysical world. Yeah.
Paranormal Theories and Scares in 'The Conjuring'
00:54:54
Speaker
We'll have to talk about this movie now that we just rewatched it too, Rick. Cause I think, they get to pretty quickly enough indicators where I would shift my perspective if the events played out like they really did the film where I'd be like, oh, this is not just coincidence anymore. Like we're getting the hell out of this house because I think it escalates pretty quickly in the film.
00:55:14
Speaker
Now, Betty, you're known for embellishing stories and they they do get better when you do it. But with this one... did you Is anything embellished in this one? No, I mean, it's hard to embellish. like it know how heavy 500 pounds is? Actually, this chandelier was 400 pounds, not 500 pounds.
00:55:32
Speaker
Well, Ben, we're going to be watching Conjuring 2, 3, and 4 each week if you want to follow along with us. And maybe do it from the house. maybe Maybe mom and dad's house.
00:55:42
Speaker
you You did see ah that thing about Annabelle, right? That happened? Oh, yeah. We haven't talked about it yet. The handler? Yeah, that died. From touching her. yeah Oh, word. Okay. I don't know about that.
00:55:55
Speaker
Did you hear about this, Trav? Dan Rivera. He's a Connecticut paranormal investigator and like one of the handlers of the famous Annabelle doll. He was part of a tour where they were touring Annabelle throughout all these cities so people could see her.
00:56:10
Speaker
And at 56, healthy guy, he's just on July 13th of this year, he just found dead in his hotel. And... They say have natural causes, but oh my god some might say supernatural.
00:56:22
Speaker
There's a video of him where like on the on the Annabelle um like case or whatever in the museum, there's all these signs that say, like do not touch, do not move.
00:56:35
Speaker
you know Positively do not touch. Yeah, don't take it from her case. And he, the handler... has to move her for some reason. So he opens the case, takes her, moves her to the case next to it and closes it.
00:56:48
Speaker
And then the next day is when he's found dead. oh my God. All right. Nevermind. i ah apologize for blaspheming the Warrens earlier in our episode before you joined because maybe there is something there. Shit.
00:57:01
Speaker
Sorry, Annabelle. And then that comedian Matt Reif buys him or buys her. Yes. I saw he just bought the Annabelle doll, right? He bought the whole museum. Oh, no.
00:57:12
Speaker
ah He's next. He's next. Chandelier time. All right, Ben. Well, over that few weeks thank you for thank you for being our second guest of all time. Thanks for having me, boys.
00:57:24
Speaker
um and And be safe tonight because now you have conjuring in your brain. yeah at heart And I put it out. I put it out into the world.
00:57:34
Speaker
Thanks for joining us, Penny. All right. See you guys. Love you. Love you. Bye.
00:57:40
Speaker
All right. Sweet. Should we move on our awards? ah Yeah. what's the Okay. Scarameter time. This is an interesting one. So I know we kept saying that let's, let's wait till 12 to relitigate everything.
00:57:57
Speaker
Can I get pass to, to relitigate one of our movies? I'd like to change my rating for the ring. and give my new rating for the conjuring. Wow. Okay. I'm with you though. I think I'm, if you're, if what you're leading to is this is very scary and scarier than everything we've seen except for the ring.
00:58:14
Speaker
So we now need to differentiate it. That's, that's where I am as That's where I am. getting to Yeah. I am there. Um, there's the ring officially a nine now. Well, why don't, why isn't it a 10?
00:58:26
Speaker
Cause if it's the scariest movie I've seen, I'm like, I'm not willing to go to 10 yet for the rank. I, i I'd have to watch more films again to remind myself if there's something scarier out there.
00:58:38
Speaker
So at least for me personally, I'll bump the ring up to nine and then I would put this movie at an eight.
00:58:45
Speaker
I was thinking of doing the same thing because it I do think it's a one rung beneath the ring. I still feel more creeped out and icky from the ring. Yes.
00:58:58
Speaker
But The Conjuring is still a really scary movie. I didn't lose sleep over it, but you know now that I've been in the hospital and and and have boils all over my body, maybe it deserves maybe it deserves more.
00:59:16
Speaker
But as far as keeping that 10 spot free, are you suggesting that you have not yet seen 10 scary movie or that you might have, you just don't remember? There's some very scary movies that I found just as scary as The Ring growing up that we haven't covered yet.
00:59:32
Speaker
And so I'm waiting till at least upon rewatch, make sure we have some room to differentiate. If we do in fact think that is scarier than the rank. Once you go 10, you can't go higher than 10. Like this isn't spinal tap. We're not going to 11. So that's why that's why I'm capping ring at nine.
00:59:47
Speaker
um But i' I'll also judge other movies accordingly. So i like our updated. Yeah. I'm glad we talked about it. Cause I was struggling with, with just ring go to 10. Cause it's, i can't think of a scarier movie, but yeah, it's,
01:00:01
Speaker
I like leaving some space because in case we do come across something that does deserve that. So I think we're in the same boat ring moves from eight to nine. This goes into the eight spot, yeah but it is the second scariest movie that we've watched on our pod. I think that's right.
01:00:15
Speaker
All right. um Highlights. I'm going be really general here for the sake of time. Cause I want to talk about these with our other awards. The highlights of this movie are the scares. Again, I think I mentioned this earlier.
01:00:26
Speaker
Juan delivers. This movie is very scary, as we were just saying. And so we have different scare-related awards, and so I'll talk about them there. But for me, that i mean that is what makes the movie. It's not the backstory on the Warrens. It's no compelling exposition scenes. it's It's purely just some of the scares they set up for me. So that that is my highlight.
01:00:48
Speaker
So let's move into the Ben Gardner Jump Scare Award then. I try to, you know, yeah most movies I try to only name one for the sake of time, but there's, there's a few here I have to call out.
01:00:58
Speaker
So do you want, do you want to start with our favorites and then just give some honorable mentions? Do you want to build up? I have, you I have one and I wonder if it's the stone cold killer of them all yeah because what i just, I have one. i have one I think mine wasn't the, what for most people was the main scare of the movie, but for whatever reason on this last rewatch, I've completely forgotten about it and scared the shit out of me.
01:01:19
Speaker
So start with yours. We'll start with yours. I'm assuming yours is probably a ah ah mine. Mine was Besheba creeping on top of the wardrobe. Mm hmm. That freaked the shit out of me.
01:01:30
Speaker
she looked like She looked like old Greg up there. Yeah, that was um that's like the scariest sequence of the movie. That comes immediately after. Carolyn has her whole sequence getting you know stuck in the basement and stuff like a ball flies off the shelf. Things are ramping up. Things are ramping up. And then it's the ah clap game where...
01:01:52
Speaker
the lights go out her match goes out when she's at the top of the staircase and you see a set of hands come out from right behind her it's a misdirection nothing comes up up the stairs at her there's a set of hands right behind her that come out and clap which is a big jump scare already but it goes directly to the bigger jump scare has the scene in the girl's bedroom um where they look up on their armoire and basheba again played by the uh by the composer, Joseph Bouchara, is just up on the armoire.
01:02:25
Speaker
what is What's the difference between a wardrobe and armoire? You know, I'm using those interchangeably. so if there is a difference there. Is armoire French? ah It does sound very French and wardrobe sounds very American.
01:02:37
Speaker
and and maybe do you say La Croix or La Croix? La Croix. La Croix. You got your liquor and then your La Croix if you're not... I'm pretty sure it's Lacroix. You might be right.
01:02:48
Speaker
But my point is, i think you're right that this is a wardrobe. It's the Lion, the Witch, and the wardrobe. And this is a wardrobe. um Not the Lion, the Witch, and the Armoire. That's your reasoning. Because Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, and this is, what, because this looks like the wardrobe for the Chronicles of Narnia? Yes, this looks like the wardrobe. That's a horrible title, the Lion, the Witch, and the Armoire. I don't know. Maybe that's what they titled it for the French version.
01:03:16
Speaker
um um yeah that's the scariest part for me it it reminded me of the weapons you know looking up at the ceiling and seeing gladys this was you see the antagonist quick cut and you're like oh my god i don't like them being up there because as as uh as obi-wan says has higher ground and and and They're just – they have more power. They're up there and I feel like a small little boy and they're going to jump on me. don't like it.
01:03:45
Speaker
Yeah, and then nothing comes from it, right? The girls are fine afterwards, but she was just creeping on top of the arm. Well, that's the whole point of these little – that's still the infestation part, right? Because I guess it's a transition into – don't know where you draw the line between the infestation and the oppression portion. I think possession is pretty evident. Yeah.
01:04:03
Speaker
infestation is just little like little scares for everybody like makes the whole house kind of unsettled and then oppressive is it starts to low it starts to focus on one person a little something for everyone i like that yeah just here's a here's a here's a little spooky for you and here's a little scare for you demon doesn't know it's target demographic yet so it's just throwing no sprinkling little scares everywhere before getting laser focused on their target demo. I think that probably is the most memorable scare of the movie. And so i agree you there. But there was one that you've but so you, but you're suggesting that you were expecting that, and but there's another scare that you didn't remember.
01:04:39
Speaker
Earlier in the film, there's another sequence of hide and clap where Carolyn's blindfolded and ends up in that in the girl's bedroom. And you see a pair of hands come out of the armoire and clap, which you know are not her daughter's hands. Her daughter was in another room.
01:04:54
Speaker
So that's a good jump scare. there's um There's also... You've had a good strong clap, by the way. yes. I've always prided myself on... i have a pretty damnmp like weirdly, I get very competitive when everyone's clapping like in an audience because I think I do have the loudest clap. Like I figured out the perfect way to kind of cup the hands.
01:05:15
Speaker
They're not flat together. And if everybody else is just enjoying the moment and Travis is looking around me like, you're not going I want to be known as that not the longest clapper. That person's annoying. The person who keeps clapping when everyone else has stopped. I just want to be the loudest clapper where people are like, God damn, that guy can clap. And so.
01:05:31
Speaker
have Has anybody ever come up to you and been like, no nice? No. So this is funny that you're a competitive clapper for loudness. I'm a competitive clapper for being the first. Because when somebody says something, I speech. That means a little over eager, but that's, that's acceptable.
01:05:47
Speaker
that if If that's, you might have more physical skill. Mine is all about like timing. Yeah. Because I put myself out there. That's a risk that people might not catch on to the clap. Rush to clap. Yeah.
01:05:59
Speaker
I mean, it it is cool when it takes though. and By the way, it is midnight. I do need to go take my antibiotics because i have to take it every six hours. So keep it recording, but I just got to On the dot. Wow. Okay.
01:06:10
Speaker
Your infection looks bad enough. for I trust you. My boils are going to feel like a mixture of the worst sunburn you've ever had plus chicken pox if I don't do this a second. All right. so
01:06:23
Speaker
I have to eat when I take this medication or all my stomach gets wrecked. All right. We were talking about clapping. Yeah. So we talked, so the claps, very scary outside of the claps. There's also when all the picture frames fall off the wall and make that gigantic, like the loudest sound. I imagine it sounds like what Benny heard when that 500 pound chandelier fell, like it is the largest explosion of glass.
01:06:46
Speaker
um So a good job on the sound editing, dialing ah that up. But the scariest moment for me is actually when the cop is wandering back into the home And he sees the maid or the ghost of a maid in the kitchen who says, like, look what you made me do.
01:07:02
Speaker
That's kind of the scare where he sees her that she kind of wanders off screen. And then just for seconds later to come up in the foreground and go, look what you made me do. and just yelling it in that.
01:07:13
Speaker
I completely forgot about that scene. i forgot. She just comes back a few seconds later and yells that out. And it true to its name, like I jumped out of my seat. I was like, holy shit. um So that got the biggest reaction. You think T. Swift saw this movie? That's literally the note I wrote down. Although she her song is not look what she made me do. But look at what you made me do.
01:07:34
Speaker
Like, ooh, what you made me do. um guitar good song good song but anyways that's my biggest jump scare which moves us on to the ah bring her back cantaloupe watch the gaps your fingers award the the most intense or cringy scene in the movie that is hard to watch um what is it for you for me it was when ah Joey King's character the middle child is suggesting that there is somebody standing behind the door yes
01:08:08
Speaker
And there's not, but your mind is, or your eyes are squinting to see if there is something in the shapes or in of the darkness. And it's so effective because How many times have you woken up in the middle night and look in a corner and think you see something malevolent?
01:08:24
Speaker
And I was just, I was really tense during that moment. And you think like maybe eyes are going to pop out or a shape's going to emerge. It never does, but it almost makes it scarier because she's like, it's right there and her her sister can't see it.
01:08:37
Speaker
And so then you realize it's it's in her mind or is it? Is it the demon choosing who it wants to see and stuff like that? So that was my cantaloupe award. There's nothing in this movie that's like, overly gory that, you know, skin peeling or anything like that. And there's no chase sequence. So this was a different kind of tense. It was just like, Oh yeah.
01:08:55
Speaker
I just, I'm on it. It's preparation for a jump scare. And one, like you said, that you they don't actually see the demon then, but you're ready to see something like that. And that's mine too, but it was just prior because it never fails to have me on edge in a scary movie.
01:09:08
Speaker
When you see a character looking underneath their bed, which is what Joey King's doing just prior. um For some weird reason that still sticks with me, even as a grown man there. you know, closets not as scared of anymore, but under your bed and the advantage you get of her peering beneath there and you just expecting to see something is always terrifying.
Film Analysis and Critique
01:09:27
Speaker
Is this why you record out of a closet to face your fears of? Exactly. I'm one, one with the monsters in here. Monsters Inc. really helped, you know, for showing me closets. That's scary. Monsters Inc. You shoehorn Monsters Inc. into so many conversations. So underrated. Best Pixar movie.
01:09:42
Speaker
Um, yeah, So our death awards, I guess I have one for cannon fodder and it's really the only one that can qualify because no humans die in this movie, but we do lose our ah best girl, Sadie, pretty early on in the movie.
01:09:58
Speaker
um You don't see how she dies, but that right when the Perrin family moves into this home at the very start of the movie, Sadie is not having it. And like all good boys and good girls do and in horror movies, I feel like,
01:10:12
Speaker
The animals, the dogs are always the first aware of like, hey, something's not right here. I refuse to go in this house. And so the parents chain her up outside and night one dead. And they see it. They find her the next morning. One of the daughters stumbles across her, screams. The parents come out. can't quite tell what got to her, but it does look.
01:10:30
Speaker
It's probably the most gore you see in the movie, but it's kind of not a zoomed in shot. So you can't quite tell what's happening. Um, But R.I.P. Sadie. Also kind of silly because the family moves past that fairly quickly. They don't mention Sadie again for the rest of the film. They're off with the rest of their life.
01:10:47
Speaker
They're not bringing up for the war. It's like, our dog died first night. That's a little mysterious. They just kind of... Aren't they playing hide and clap like a couple nights later? With the dog? No. Oh, just just like they're you're trying to say it's a testament to like the...
01:11:01
Speaker
Yeah. Does it? does I mean, maybe hold off on the hide and clap until you've you've grieved a bit. Yeah, I know. I don't know. Maybe that's asking for too much. ah We have a new award, which I just can't think of anything for here. so I forgot. I forgot. i keep I don't have it in my template. Shyamalan twist. Not really. Again, talking about James Wan, this isn't really a mystery. There's no big reveals. I couldn't think of anything here. I mean, for me, the Shyamalan twist was just how butt ugly the real Warrens were in real life once I saw pictures them. Ed Warren's a much heavier set man than Patrick Wilson is. Yeah.
01:11:34
Speaker
If you remember what the gold member looks like, I think that's pretty fitting for Ed Warren. He looks like a hot star. He looks like a hot star. Pipe and a pancake. um Okay. Don't go in there, Ward.
01:11:47
Speaker
you have one for this?
01:11:50
Speaker
um Yes. Mine will. So aside from the and very poltergeist adjacent movie, by the way, before I give my answer, because I was about to say that one of them is is the poltergeist ah answer, which is like, yeah, get out of the house.
01:12:06
Speaker
I know they say their assets are all tied up in this house, but it's like, okay, put it on the market, go somewhere else, like get out of there. and So I'm not going to do that one because that's too easy of answer. But, um, but before I give my answer, I do have a question.
01:12:20
Speaker
i didn't know where else to talk about this in any category. Is Bathsheba a ghost, a demon, or both? yeah Well, they touch on this. or Patrick Wilson tries to differentiate a ghost from a demon.
01:12:33
Speaker
He says a demon has never walked the earth in human form. Bathsheba was a real person. acknowledge this the movie. but then they're calling her a demon. So I'm assuming to the point where she's no longer her human identity, but it's pretty cool. Yes. Because so she, she took the plunge,
01:12:54
Speaker
She sacrificed her seven-day-old baby to proclaim and then proclaimed her love for Satan hung herself from a tree. so that – because she's dead, she is ghost.
01:13:05
Speaker
But because declared love for Satan, she is demon. Therefore, she's a demon ghost? yeah I think maybe maybe like a demon is upgrade from ghost. to So what is the opposite of a demon?
01:13:16
Speaker
Angel. In the movie Angels in the Outfield, I think these are just ghosts of past baseball players. So if the antithesis of a demon is an angel and you get regular guys upgraded to angel status in that film, I'm assuming, you know, it it could go the other way as well.
01:13:31
Speaker
We're Bathsheba. Oh, interesting ah interest, interest, dude. What a great, what a great comparison. I didn't know where was going with that, but I was prepared, man. No, i thought you were making a dumb angels joke. And I was about to be like, how, what minute is this? so I can cut it out.
01:13:47
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's true because the angels aren't these entities. Um, these like entities that are created great directly from God. They're real humans who then, yeah, upgraded from ghost to angel. Yeah.
01:14:01
Speaker
So could go the other way as well. All right. Well, my answer is my answer is it's it's less of a don't go in there. It's don't let her go in there.
01:14:13
Speaker
So what the sleep, daughter the sleepwalking daughter is sleepwalking again. And this is when the house is this. The house is going fucking crazy and she's going up the stairs and clearly going to go into the room where shit's not good. and Right.
01:14:30
Speaker
and And her dad, Ron Livingston, with the worst 70s wig I've ever seen in my life, is about to go stop her. And Patrick Wilson's like, no. And you think he's going to say something like, here's a spiritual reason why you can't or whatever.
01:14:46
Speaker
But doesn't he just say like, hey, you never wake a sleepwalking person or something like that? like just I just feel like let's let's prioritize things. let's just prior like that She's going to walk into a ah ah demon hive.
01:14:59
Speaker
And so Ron listens to Patrick Wilson. He's like, okay, this guy knows he's talking about. And then she goes in and then the door shuts and they have to go like slam it down to get her. That's a good point. I was like, don't let her go in there. goes in the little hidey hole behind the rope.
01:15:15
Speaker
As a dad, ah you're in that situation, if the demonologist tells you don't wake her up, do you listen to him or do you go grab her? Yeah. I think the most dangerous place for a sleepwalker is near the staircase. So if she's walking away from the stairs, maybe maybe I let it ride.
01:15:31
Speaker
Like if she starts coming back towards the stairs, like I don't want her to fall down though. So maybe I do stop her there. But I'd probably listen to, again, not not really a subject matter expert, but...
01:15:42
Speaker
They trusted him. So if I was trusting someone, he was like, yeah, let her let her play it out. I might have done the same thing. um yeah All right, my don't go in there was a Kind of Barbarian. um Again, talking about Ron Livingston's character.
01:15:56
Speaker
When they find the heat boarded up basement space and he immediately like no concern for like why was this boarded up no concern that you know there's no light down there there's a million cobwebs the place is literally like you you can't go a few inches without running into another cobweb and just immediately goes down there he's like oh this is great like look at all this unfinished space he's like look at all this stuff gets so much room for activity this is our stuff now this is totally our stuff and i'm like all right man like is it's a little creepy that this is boarded off and so i think that is kind of you know i'm not sure if that's what awakens basheba but haunting stuff definitely starts happening right after they go down into that basement so would not have done that not done that that quickly but he'd even have a like a flashlight like he was just using matches down there i have a dull knife about that but we'll we'll see should we go into best lines yeah
01:16:50
Speaker
not a lot of laughs to be had in this movie. Even the few attempts at humor Juan does put in there, I thought were pretty mid, so nothing too remarkable there to to include a line, but some good scary lines.
01:17:01
Speaker
What about you?
01:17:05
Speaker
Sorry. Are you going to keep eating the rest of the time?
01:17:12
Speaker
I don't want to eat too fast. We only have like 10 minutes left, 15 minutes. If I eat too slow, but, but they say that you have to eat immediately after taking the pill. I'm glad you're following his advice very, very literally. um This one i didn't write down, but you just mentioning Juan's attempts at humor made me think of, I don't even know if it's funny, but it's funny that they wrote it in, which was like,
01:17:41
Speaker
Lorraine says to Ed, do you remember what I said to you our wedding night? And Ed goes, can we do it again? And she just completely bypasses that and is like, we're in this together or something. It's just like such conservative Christian horniness, just like real tame.
01:17:59
Speaker
Like, let's do it again. Let's christen the house. Yeah, PG level sex joke there. In an R-rated movie. um No, my best line...
01:18:10
Speaker
It was easy and ah it it stuck out to me and I'm surprised I looked online. Nobody else. It's hard to find this exact quote. I had to go watch the movie again and write it down because nobody else wrote it in an article or IMDb anything. That's when they're consulting the priest about getting a another priest, an exorcist over to the house and that this little meeting with him.
01:18:30
Speaker
And he's like, Ed's like, he asked the priest to get some exorcists out of the house. And the priest goes, and again, this just sounds like to me, it's either like Avengers talking to Nick Fury, or it's like a general contractor talking to the head of the company. It's like, look, Ed, this is complicated because the kids aren't baptized and the family, they're not members of the church.
01:18:53
Speaker
The approval will have to come directly from the Vatican. Father, we've never seen anything like this. Yeah, well, neither have I. Father, they don't have a lot of time. He goes, all right, I'll push it through myself.
01:19:07
Speaker
It's just like, they're talking it like it's john gone in 60 seconds with Nicolas Cage. and Highlighting the bureaucracy here. Directly from the Vatican. And let's just take a step back for a moment. So...
01:19:19
Speaker
The priest is looking at these photos and footage and clearly sees that there's a supernatural entity like terrorizing this family, and he's going to let bureaucracy and politics get in the way of helping them.
01:19:33
Speaker
He's like, well, they're not baptized, so fuck them. We can't help them. I just thought the whole conversation was silly, but I thought it was great at the same time because... I don't think they're trying to make it that serious, but it's a serious, i don't know. yeah you know yeah i'm I'm with you, man. I think it kind of plays into the Warren's ego too, where they're like the church wouldn't help. So we had to step in, make matters into our own hands. And so it's, it's just a silly highlight of that.
01:19:58
Speaker
It's going to have to come directly from the Vatican. and All right. Should we move on to dual knives? Yes. I have a handful. um So I'm happy to jump right in unless you also have a handful. Okay. So,
01:20:12
Speaker
that A big part of the Warrens trying to help the Perrin family, especially trying to help Carolyn when she's possessed, it brings up at the end of the movie. They're like, try and think of the happiest moment you've ever had with your family. They keep hitting on this. And this has been teased up throughout the film because they keep referencing this trip they took to the beach years ago.
01:20:31
Speaker
And so to facilitate that, there's a family photo the five daughters and the parents, which is the word like the set design really needed to up their budget a bit because It is all seven people. It looks like as they do right now, because they just brought the cast in for a quick photo.
01:20:49
Speaker
The background is, I believe, entirely Photoshopped because there's not even land. It's just blue. It's just sky all behind them. And this is like the most prized family photo of the highlight of their life. And just looks so cheesy, so unrealistic that it gave me a few laughs there.
01:21:06
Speaker
So I had a thought about maybe why they did that. I literally thought about this because when that happened, when she. we don't see the photo drav in the frame until the end of the scene.
01:21:22
Speaker
And so when Vera touches her, the mom's hand. And she's like, he must've been a wonderful day at the beach. And the mom goes, how did you know? And in my
Annabelle and Spin-off Foundations
01:21:33
Speaker
mind, I'm like, well, if I see a family on the beach and they're all smiling, I'm going to assume it was a nice day at the beach.
01:21:42
Speaker
So I'm wondering if they realized how dumb that sounded. And so they edited out the sand. So you couldn't know they're on the beach because Lorraine Warren has like the gift of second sight. How did you know? Like all amazed. How did you know we had a fun time at the beach?
01:21:56
Speaker
Versus if it just looks like blue in the background, then Vera has that second sight to like somehow know they were at the beach. That is my only explanation for why, how how horrible that picture was. That photo was wild. So that was one dull knife. um Well, what would it, would it have been worse though? If then it shows the reveal of the photo and there is sand and like a,
01:22:16
Speaker
like lifeguard tower. It's like, Oh, how'd you know we were at the beach? You know what I guess that wouldn't help the p plot, but they, they need to make the photo look more realistic. It could have been facing from like the water at their back. Maybe Sadie was taking the photo and she doesn't have opposable thumbs. What it looked like is they just never took a real photo of the cast altogether that they could use for it.
01:22:35
Speaker
Just like as an afterthought, they're like quick, someone, someone would get their Photoshop skills in here and try to Photoshop and all these seven people. There's some similar, some old blue background. Um,
01:22:46
Speaker
All right, of mine. I don't know if this is a me problem or the products I'm buying, but it show me what match is as strong as the one that Ron Livingston is using when he first goes in that cellar.
01:23:01
Speaker
Yeah. Dude, he is he is walking with some purpose. It's clearly drafty in there. And that thing lasts for a good 20 seconds before we have to license another one.
01:23:12
Speaker
And it's going, like, it's clear he's moving through. like there's a wind, gust as he walks. You know what mean? you're 100% right. And this is, like, juxtaposed to when Caroline gets trapped down there near the middle point of the film because her matches are going out in, like, a half second.
01:23:31
Speaker
That's how it normally is. i fucking hate matches. And his he's got a super match. And i was I was almost distracted from the scene. I was like, this is this isn not how matches work.
01:23:43
Speaker
Yeah, I feel that. I feel that. Okay, so another one I have is... ah we We haven't really talked about it yet, but this movie starts off with the doll Annabelle, which was for the Warrens, their biggest like first case really that they go back to and talk about even before the parent family in real life. Again, I don't know if there's any truth to it, but sequentially Annabelle happened before their involvement with the parent family.
01:24:07
Speaker
And so they bring Annabelle home to their little cabinet of curiosities or their, you know, the portion the home, which a side nitpick, like They have a young daughter at their house and they're having like the most haunted possessed items of all time. And they're like, we feel like the only safe place for these is right where we live. And apparently she can like access that area.
01:24:27
Speaker
and Well, here's the thing. they Here's the thing, Trav. What you're missing is that they all know it's bullshit. So they don't care that their daughter's there because they all know it's just bullshit. Yeah. And yeah, that's I guess, sorry, I guess the real, the real Lorraine, yes i'm talking about real. The purpose of the film, it it seems kind of silly that it just have that there. and And really that is the main dull knife is like, she just kind of has this side plot that I don't know if they were already prepping for the trilogy, the spinoff they would do for Annabelle, but there's a lot of like cutbacks to, know, the reporter coming to see Annabelle and then Annabelle getting out of her case and then terrorizing
01:25:02
Speaker
the daughter and she, she kind of becomes like the side villain of the movie that isn't really related to the main villain. It reminded me honestly, a lot of like silence of the lambs with like Hannibal Lecter and Buffalo bills. and They're, they're really trying to catch Buffalo bill, but here you keep going back to the mastermind here. Like, well, I mean, that's a simple, that's a good comparison because in both, in both cases, no pun intended, they're, you were dealing with,
01:25:27
Speaker
different cases. Yeah. like they're They're both confined behind glass instead of bars, right? The the last shot in both movies is like Annabelle getting, getting out.
01:25:37
Speaker
Uh, the, the very or the very last shot is like of the cabinet of curiosities and in the contract, just like the very last shot and silence the lambs is clearly skin, the phone call from Hannibal Lecter. And so they kind of set it up. They both like liver.
01:25:49
Speaker
They both like liver with a nice Chianti. I was actually, I totally forgot Annabelle was even in this movie until, but then the first scene, the first shot is her face. But yeah it is strange. It's not very fleshed out. And I do wonder if they were thinking ahead um just to. Yeah. It seems to be serving the purpose of the franchise more than this specific film.
01:26:10
Speaker
Yeah. That's a good, i it's a good dull knife because it's not a central part of the story, but you, Without the Annabelle movies knowing that they exist, you're just kind of like, why is there this focus on the like the scare back at their home later in the film.
01:26:23
Speaker
I just don't know if we needed that. I totally understand, like, they want to start it with a different case before they get directly involved in the parent and family, but I don't know if they need it all to tie I also don't know how... how ah involved the ed and warren are in their daughter's life seems like she's kind of they're pretty absent as parents they're she's kind of as we're gonna go out and go make a career for ourselves you just stay at home with all the creepy things we've collected over the years just keep an eye on those for us and a senile grandma all right ive i have two others um one
01:26:57
Speaker
And the final scene of the movie. So here we have Patrick Wilson performing an exorcism, even though he's not an ordained priest by the Vatican, which is silly again, because, you know, this is kind Ed Warren's grift.
01:27:10
Speaker
He is the only recognized demonologist by the by the Vatican. Yeah, as he says, as an unordained. Yeah. um Yeah.
01:27:21
Speaker
But at the very end when he's performing this exorcism, and things start to go haywire, things start to go sideways, the demon, Bathsheba, picks up and possesses ah shotgun in the basement and fires at them.
01:27:34
Speaker
it made me think, if this demon was intent on killing these guys, there was a shotgun here the whole time. Like, what the fuck took her so long? Like, she's like, all right, screw screw the conventional means. Now i'm just going to pick up a gun and start shooting at them.
01:27:47
Speaker
Who was she shooting at? I think she fired at all of them. I'm not entirely sure, but just she just starts blasting. And I thought that's funny because usually you don't see... Usually in possession these supernatural horror movies, the demons can only inflict pain by possessing someone to do the thing, not actually be able to animate inanimate objects like shotguns and just start shooting at people. So I thought that was pretty funny.
01:28:13
Speaker
um And then last one is just the name of the film, The Conjuring. you know, Conjuring is to my understanding, like creating something. And I, I have no idea what the title to do with any of the plot or the Warrens or anything like that. So I don't know
Humor and Outtakes
01:28:31
Speaker
how they landed on that.
01:28:33
Speaker
I had in my notes that I was going to bring this up. But then I crossed it out because i was like, maybe I'm missing something and I'm an idiot. And and they said something in the movie that I missed. But I'm glad you also thought that because I was like, conjuring, I think of like magic.
01:28:46
Speaker
i Like you conjure up a spell. Yeah, exactly. Like... um I have no idea where they were going with the title. So it's cool. I mean, it's stuck. It's got a lot of butts in seats.
01:28:56
Speaker
It sounds nice. that The J is cool. It's a good font. Great font. Well, the J kind of hooks in his lower and the word letters are kind of close together. um Should we move on to winners and losers?
01:29:09
Speaker
Yeah. All right. um I'll let you start. You have any time related ones for us? Well, I know I said my top three times last episode were 1111 for Making a Wish, 217 for Weapons, the movie, two thirty and then number one, 230, Time for the Dentist, which is like one of the best jokes of all time, which you didn't really buy it.
01:29:35
Speaker
But I appreciate it. yeah It does land with a lot of people, I want to let you know. um I'm I'm re ranking. This is a big deal. I'm dropping 1111. Wow.
01:29:46
Speaker
wow i just think about I've outgrown it and it's just kind of lame. I feel like people who say that I don't I don't really like. well So that absolutely kills me. I was about to say my cousin routinely posted. We have a cousin thread on my mom's side of the family.
01:30:00
Speaker
And he always sends us when it's 1111 and says like blessings or bless up. And so shout out to Harrison. Thank you for that. And actually he listens to our pod. So he's probably going to hear this and just hear that you don't like Harrison. You sound like a wonderful person.
01:30:13
Speaker
um it just, I, I hope you don't get my number cause I don't want 1111 texts, but thank you for listening to the pod. So you'd rather have him text 217, 230 assuming 307.
01:30:26
Speaker
If he listens to this pod, I wanted to text me at 3.07 a.m. because that is seven minutes past the witching hour. It is a nice... Is that universally accepted that three to four is the witching hour?
01:30:38
Speaker
i I don't know if it's universal. I've ah i've always thought it was. But um anytime you have a zero in the middle of a three-digit number, it it just gives it some weight. ah It's wider. It looks nice. it kind of makes things a little more symmetrical, even if the number's on the outside a little shaped differently.
01:30:56
Speaker
kind of looks like a ah meal, like a plate or something something that you can really hold on to. Like if you're driving down the 405 or... or ah you know, if you have a 404... Air?
01:31:10
Speaker
What? Air 44, yeah. Or if you're cleaning with 409 or driving down the 101 or... It's just, I like the zero in the middle. And then I do wonder if it's anything to do with three being like...
01:31:25
Speaker
the Trinity and then seven being God's number or Jesus's number. And maybe Shiva is, Oh, actually no, that's cause she killed herself at 307. That's why. Well, maybe she, yeah there's he maybe it was intentionality. the specific time she chose All I'm saying is that two 30 is still number one time of all time.
01:31:46
Speaker
Two, I'm going to say is still 217 cause that just rolls off the tongue nicer, but really, really close at three is three Oh seven. Okay.
01:31:56
Speaker
Um, sorry to Harrison to drop 11, 11, but so yeah, winner, winner, seven winner is three Oh seven AM. m yeah I like it. Um, one of my winners, I have all, I have three children.
01:32:11
Speaker
They are all girls, the parent family, all girls. Let's go. They have five kids, all girls. So One thing I liked it can really relate to is ah girl dad shout out Rod Livingston and just raise a family of all girls. So we're getting traumatized by ah multiple demons. I know. Well,
Historical Context and Artistic Elements
01:32:32
Speaker
that's why we We do like scaring in our family and like hiding behind things and jumping on and scaring at it with my siblings and now I'm doing it to my kids.
01:32:42
Speaker
And so maybe that's why I like horror movies so much is I've grown up in an environment where it is, um it is virtuous. It is accepted and encouraged to scare other. Well, for your next one, you should put on some tattered white gown from the 18th century and then like muck up your face and some dirt and just crawl up on top of an armoire.
01:33:04
Speaker
an armoire armoire uh and then do a little spook for that to go for a while yeah wow um another one a winner god yeah okay i mean they're really pushing it god god is real um there's a whole hierarchy of the vatican and exorcists and demons and Uh, Warren's deeply religious, which is where a lot of this comes from. So yeah, they get the, they have power of the Lord. Um,
01:33:37
Speaker
um And with with with the Pope, I think having some some clear influence there. But yeah, I think God's a winner here. Yeah. might My only other winner I have is, again, we were just talking about her, but Annabelle the doll. She gets her own spinoff trilogy from this. So it goes to you. You're scary enough where you get your own movies.
01:33:54
Speaker
they They didn't perform as well as The Conjury, but some put up decent numbers. Similar to the Warrens, um Annabelle in real life looks nothing like that. She's a Raggedy Ann doll. She's Raggedy Ann. Right. Yeah. Yeah, they definitely went all out. Such a Hollywoodization of it. Yeah. yeah um Another winner I had was Spontaneous Lesions. Yeah, that makes sense.
01:34:16
Speaker
Clearly winning the battle against me right now. the film outside the film right now. Spontaneous lesions without explanation, by the way. Yes. one still understands why it's spreading to my lens. We haven't even mentioned her yet, but Carolyn's played by Lily Taylor. I thought she did a great job. As far as like acting goes, she... Oh, dude, she doesn't get enough talk.
01:34:37
Speaker
Everybody talks about Patrick Wilson and Vera for me because they're hot. Lily Taylor played a good woman. Taylor kills it. With the progression of slowly getting possessed too. For me, a loving normal mom to be possessed at the end.
01:34:49
Speaker
All right. My first loser is the PG-13 rating. They lost out on a good one here. had had they had pe Had this been PG-13, that would have would been a good look for PG-13 movies.
01:35:00
Speaker
And up there with the ring for a PG-13 movie that feels like it's R but isn't. Yeah. um Another loser I have is the truth. Yeah. Yeah. Really not, not, not respecting the truth too much.
01:35:16
Speaker
ah Probably should have painted Ed Warren as a pedophile. because you watch one But you you have, like you said, you have to separate the subject matter from... That's fine. You can do what you have to do, but the truth still lost here.
01:35:29
Speaker
It's been entirely falsified. It probably does. warns in two positive of a light. It's just, I think it's what's different though, is that what makes this different than just, oh, it's a heightened fictionalized version of people is that the bulk of their...
01:35:45
Speaker
character and who they are is based on goodness. They are painted as such perfect people. So I don't think it's just another case of, oh, they had to embellish it to make the story better.
01:35:57
Speaker
This sticks out to me because their record in real life is ah completely antithetical to the values that they espouse here. Grifting people out of thousands tens of thousands hundred thousands of dollars so it it's still i think the truth is a bigger loser here than normal because we'll see in the future films when we get to them like people died result they become they become ah anti-heroes yes i mean some people actually did die so we'll we'll get to that in the next conjuring films but um another loser i had which i mentioned earlier was ron livingston's wig is just not
01:36:33
Speaker
not cut yeah that thing was a mop i love ron livingston like office space of my favorite comedies of all time this ah it's okay for him. They just needed a guy, but they could have made the guy look better. if but Why did he just use his normal hair? His normal hair doesn't look too far off the wig he was wearing in this. it's good point.
01:36:52
Speaker
Did this, did do you have to be reminded this was a period piece? i feel like the seventies wasn't really imbued throughout the film. I was, I would be like, Oh, I would be like, Oh, I remember now, but it mainly just his wig that I'd be like, Oh yeah, it's seventies.
01:37:05
Speaker
That probably was the strongest indicator, but yeah, it doesn't lean. trying to think of if they had any like pop culture references or anything like that. I'm not remembering anything top of mind. Any more losers for you? No, I'm done.
01:37:18
Speaker
All right. on Scream queen or king? Who do you say it is? I feel like we keep defaulting to the director and I'm going to bring up with one another. So now, well, i'm I'm going to zag to the zig here. um I'm giving it to Joseph Beshara, the composer who played Bathsheba in the movie. He was kind of, you know, what dual roles here, double duty.
01:37:40
Speaker
You know what? I'm actually fine with that because I was I was ah really torn between one or the composer. not so Not so much of the Bathsheba stuff, but that just amps it up even more. But just because for a movie that um its reputation precedes it and so it carries a lot of expectation when you watch it.
01:38:01
Speaker
The thing that I'm always, I'm not surprised by a lot in this movie and I'm not like wowed by the all the sum of the parts but the score i just stands out to me a lot yeah they did so i mean thought it was a scary demon as well so honorable mentions course to juan who this is part of his like resurgence and now turning into just a money printing machine for horror films also so shout out to lily taylor who i thought did a fantastic acting performance A lot of shout outs on this episode, Trav.
01:38:29
Speaker
Well,
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
01:38:30
Speaker
I feel like we didn't give her enough praise. I had mentioned that already earlier. While we're at it, let's give a shout out to to Sam Edelstein, who gave me shit for thinking that weapons was a Fortnite allegory guess when I saw the gun. Yes.
01:38:46
Speaker
I thought that was a funny comment. Which, it kind of wraps this film for us. So so thinking about social media stuff, um Make sure if you guys are listening, we'd love for you to actually subscribe to our feed or even better, give us a rating if you're enjoying this.
01:39:01
Speaker
um and but Hit follow, follow us. yeah And um also, if you want to know what we're doing after the Conjuring series, we're not going to tell you on this pod.
01:39:13
Speaker
This is a way for you to go to our Instagram and go look at her last post. As of today, ah we posted what we're doing after this series. so September, thesundayscaries.pod on Instagram.
01:39:25
Speaker
Thesundayscaries.pod is it. Well, I think that is it for today, Rick. I hope these lesions are healed by the time get to recording our next episode.
01:39:37
Speaker
and Well, if if if I'm not healed, Benny proved that he can at least be on air for a little bit and not sound completely dumb. If you're not healed, I'm going to have to take back some of the criticisms we gave to the Warrens. If this does appear that you have some supernatural reaction to watching this film, because maybe they were onto something.
01:39:56
Speaker
Well, you know what? Hopefully with our added subscribers, we can start to monetize, get some ad dollars and do a Patreon so I can pay Medical City Dallas the bill that ah is coming to my doorstep pretty soon.
01:40:07
Speaker
So that'd be nice. All right. Thank you guys for listening. We'll see you next week.
01:40:14
Speaker
Bye.
01:40:29
Speaker
Dude, I feel so out of it on this medication.